Special Guest Episode: Interview w/ Columbus Short

Scandal co-star Columbus Short (Harrison Wright) sits down with Katie and Guillermo for an intimate conversation about the show and Columbus’ struggles. As Guillermo’s trailer-mate on set, Columbus shares some of his favorite memories of being on the show and how he got the job. Then, Katie dives into the difficult questions: What happened?  What was Columbus going through that led to his downfall and how has he since recovered?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with Higheart Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Okay, this is crazy, you guys. You guys, we have.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Our family's here, our original family is here.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Gladiator in a Suit. Yes, this is a very very
special episode. It's a standalone, it's a episode.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
This is the first time we're in a studio with
this podcast because of this man.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
And we were like, we've been wanting to get Columbus
Short on Unpacking the Toolbox for a while, I say,
like two years.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, but we're saving it too because we.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Wanted to do in person, and we were so psyched
that you're open to it and into it, and we're
very happy to see you, happy.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
To see you.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
And they're going to flip their wigs. Remember when I said,
y'all will flip your wigs. This is why. Oh my god,
you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
This is the man, the myth, the legend who literally
said do you want to be a gladiator in a suit?

Speaker 4 (01:34):
To you?

Speaker 2 (01:35):
To me and your face like this is crazy, Like
I could get emotional about it. To Columbus Short, first
of all, thank you for doing this. Let it be
known gladiators that Columbus We're going to get into questions
and have a good time. But also you brought the
most funnest friends you brought Neo.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Neo came and saying Happy birthday to Carrie.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Washington because of Columbus short Neo came saying happy birthday,
and I gave him a hug and I was like,
that's the most cologne I've ever smelled on.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
His And it smelled so good, and he.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Was so talented, and I all day I would like
to catch a whiff of it on my sweater and
I'd be like, that's near cologne. Yeah. Wait, can you
first take us back, like where were you when you
booked the part, because didn't you were an offer or
you had to audition. Tell us how you got this
part and where you were in your life career.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
So Shanda had the couple of years before had said
to me, offered a private practice, and I was like,
I do not want to do television. I want to
be a movie star. That was my idea. I was like,
I want to be a movie star, like I'm I'm
on a movie.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Star track and at the time those were different trail.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
And I said, but you know what, there's a guy
named Tate Higgs to be appropriate.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
No way, yeah, suggested love. That's because that's my guy.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
So I'm like, and he's down, you know what I mean,
he's down for the child. I wasn't so then that
I'll never forget the night C A A messaged the
you know when back in the day when they message
sent messengers.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah
yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah yeah. You would have to go.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
I gotta go get the script out, yes, yeah, And
they sent it wasn't called scandal, it was damage.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
There it is.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
And I was like, all right, man, let me see.
And I read it and she had me at free. Well,
first of all, I didn't read it. I put it
on my my night stand and I was like, I'm
not going to read it. And I told C I
A and Real Steen Entertainment Partners my team. I said, nah,
I'm not going to do no TV. And something woke
me up in the middle of the night and I

(04:00):
and I woke up. It was like two o'clock in
the morning, and I picked up the script and I
just said, let me read. I said, I will give
it ten pages. And first thing they had me.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Hell yes, hello, wait did you did you have the
first line in the script right.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Now a date?

Speaker 6 (04:26):
And then he says, I'm not here to bring you
on a date.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
This is not a day.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, this is not a date. What are you drinking martini?
But like, this is not a date.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
And I had just three days before that watched so
by the way, I had like done Studio sixty with
Aaron Sorkin, right, and you know, Josh Molina comes from
the Aaron, so it's always paced and you can't.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
You got to do that, drop that ball, don't drop me.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
So I was like, okay, I'm going to put this
and on it and me and Katie it was like,
what's the movie for Social Network? Came out and I said,
I want to do this scene. We have to pace
it like Aaron. We have to do it like that,
and boom, and we did it. And I remember Wilmer
Vodama came to.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Visit yet that day, Brun, you brought all the stars, dude,
Well didn't you bring Madonna?

Speaker 3 (05:25):
You should have brought Madonna. We'll get into that.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
So Wilmer came and he was just like, do your thing,
and I was so ship.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I was so nervous, but cameos, which you don't get nervous.
You're not like that. And I remember picking you up.
We shared a trailer in the pilot. After the pilot,
you guys shared a double banker, but in the pilot
we shared a double banker. And we're there and we
know we're about to shoot the Quinn Harrison scene that honestly.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
The opening scene.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
And he says, you will slay dragons. You will love
the fight more than anybody else. And you got to
say it, say it, and I go, say, what gladiators do?
You want to be a latter? I want to be
a gladder in a suit.

Speaker 5 (06:02):
Boom scam.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Right, Okay, so that's the scene we're all talking about.
I pick you up, I knock, and I remember, like
so vividly. We walked to the location, which was downtown,
and you were like nervous, which you're not. We had rehearsed,
we had done readings of the pilot for the studio
and network, like you had it, but you were like, yeah, that's.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
A good wood. I felt like what we're doing is
about to either when it's just gonna either fall in
space or it's going to be fantastic. It's going too,
and I remember that moment and you were so Katie, like,
I'm going to tell you from you know, Shoshana Bean

(06:42):
has spoke highly of you. Camilla Martin has spoken high Broadway.
I'm talking about equity Broadway. They love you, right, So
when I'm talking about her, I'm like, Okay, I didn't
know who she was.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, that's because I was a babysitter. Wait, can I
ask you one other thing? This is the other thing
I remember. I remember walking there and being like, oh
my god, I think he's nervous. I was nervous too,
but like obviously I hadn't done shit, Like I was nervous,
but you were like shouldn't. I mean, it was good
that you were nervous. And then we did the scene.
And the other memory I remember so well is after

(07:19):
your coverage, they flipped the camera on you and you
do your monologue and I remember everybody in video village
standing up and giving you a standing applause. Do you
remember that?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Reason?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I never did that again.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Because I had to sit.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
And the reason Wilmer was there is because I needed
some like support, emotional support, because I was like, this
might be the moment of my career. And I sat
there and I had to sit there and look at
this woman, this one. And I was like, no, Quinn,
this is.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Not a day.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
And and and so what happened after that? We created
scandal pace true or not true?

Speaker 3 (08:02):
True?

Speaker 4 (08:02):
From that day, I just said, spit it out as
fast as you can and get it out of your
mouth and be done with it. And and I did that,
and and and and and.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
I mean you knew because that makes every scene, every
every time I've been in a film or a TV
show in the pace and it's paced up, it's it's better.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
It makes it better.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Wait, so do you call Shanda? Take it back really quick?
And said, I woke up in the millen ighty two
o'clock in the morning. I read the first time pages
I'm in what did you do?

Speaker 4 (08:30):
So let me tell you what happened. Yeah, So I
went over there and I walked in the room and
it's Betsy Beers, Jeff's wife, Linda. And it's Linda Jeff, Yeah,
I mean Linda, Betsy Beers, Mary Howard, Yeah, there sitting
there like the queens, right, And I was like, I

(08:55):
sat down and I was like boom, okay, okay. We
had the meeting. We talked and I said, okay, well
it was that and I'm getting out of the room
all my way out, but I said I had one
more question. I said, who is going to play Olivia Price?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Remember I don't remember that Price and Harrison right? Was
a Harrison right?

Speaker 4 (09:17):
It was something else wrong, but so so so Olivia Price.
I said, who's playing Olivia Price? And then it's Olivia Pope.
It's Kerrie Washington. I love you for the rest of
my life. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
And then I feel like we all got super close
because we rehearsed the pilot like a play, Like I
all rehearsed it for like two weeks, right, yeah, so
we all got super close, which is rare because you'll
get close shooting a show.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
But you were the start. You were not as I
wasn't know you were you were? You were? You were?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yes, I was feeling, yeah you were. If you remember,
I had like one line in the pilot and then
were very last and that's it. And then last minute
they wrote Shanda wrote that monologue in the bathroom, but
I don't think I ever rehearsed that in the when
we were rehearsing in that rehearsal room.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
That wasn't even rehearse that. I don't believe. So I
don't think so that wasn't Rentil Later.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Well, because at the Studio Network table read, the only
note that Shonda got was we want more gear, we want.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
We want more of him. And I had a few scenes.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
I remember I walk in with the with the rings
for Henry ian Cusick was this Stephen for Steven?

Speaker 3 (10:28):
So what happened? So you left the lot? Okay? I
left the lot. Jeff Perry was moving furniture. He was, oh, yeah,
this is true story. I said peace out to Jeff Harry.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
As he was just moving a microwave into his wife's office.
He was just being a good husband.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Being a good husband. Yeah, And I was like boom.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
I get in the car. I get a call from
c I A. They're like Columbus, she got the part.
And I'm like, holy shit.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I remember Shanna telling me that she uh, we were
at her house at some gathering watching the show, and
she said that she that you were the only person
that didn't audition, and that she called Jeff Jeffrey Dean
Morgan got vouch for you.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yes, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Come on, dude.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Shawn had a policy on our show that she called
people's previous bosses to sort of check in if they
were my boss.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
He was my boss as a loser. I was in
the losers, okay with them.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
With Joel Silver, Uh just me Zoe's al Donna, Jeffrey
and he was the leader of our cores right and
he had, by the way, whatever his role was on
Grey's Anatomy was like Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who got me?

(11:48):
Who got me?

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Vouched for you?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
But also but also Shonda loved you, like I think
he could have vouched for you, and Shaun could have
if she didn't like your work and like who you were,
you wouldn't just for do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Let me just say though we on part of this podcast,
we have to go back and rewatch episodes, which I
have not done, like when we watched it together, when
we were live tweeting, you couldn't really watch like trying
to be with the Gladiators and all this. Now that
g and a lot of time has passed, we go back,
we watch the episodes and you are, Oh my god, Columbus.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
We talk about you so much talk about you.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
So much on this podcast. Your acting work is so unbelievable.
It was based on you, guys, but you thank you,
but you are like the gladiator.

Speaker 5 (12:34):
You make it look I don't know how.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
You do phone and flips and like.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Let's let's explain that.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
So when I wor answer as.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
Well, First you know that business as an actor, right,
So uh, Laurence Fishburne Morpheus always told me.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
I was.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
I was doing this movie called Armored, right, and I
saw this man pick up a box like a case
and like put it and it was like with no dialogue.
It was the most incredible thing I'd seen.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Like choreographed. Yeah, it was like how I grabbed it
and he said.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
Son, He's called me grasshopper, and he said always make
business business right, right and put that thing down and
everything something.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
So I was like wow.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
And so everything that I didn't scandal, I wanted to
all of those tools, all of those notes they were
they were they were coming from the ones that you know,
Jeffrey Dean Morgan, from Jeffrey Wright to Lawrence fishburn to
Matt Dillon to Jon Renaud.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Not Matt Dillon, I love yah were giving me cheat
codes and you were just you were wide out to.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
Know I was shot out of a cannon I was doing.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I go back and we watch the episode. We have
a part of our podcast where it's really not Gemo.
It's Katie and Gemo's cringe worthy acting moments. It's really
just me complaining about what I'm doing in the episode
because I hope and pray that I've come a long
way from that. But like, you were so confident, so cool,
Like you knew exactly what the show was, You knew
exactly what the tone was, Like you were in the

(14:27):
pocket of like you are the quintessential like Gladiator scandaled
to me and watching it back, you're like, yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
You're also you're also a dancer, right, so all that
all that business, like to make that look good, like
you made it look good. It's hard to teach that advantage.
What we talked about all the time.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
We would talk about, like Madonna in my time with Brittany,
how hard it is to teach human beings how to walk,
Like to.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Teach a human how to walk?

Speaker 4 (14:59):
Why knew how to oh yeah, like walk that then
she poked it out on this shore.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
It doesn't know how to walk. We shot pilots the
pilot for nights seven pm to seven am for three
weeks straight or something. And here.

Speaker 6 (15:20):
Was its really fucking cool but super pointing saddle shoes
and they were pointing and the hallway was long because
it was it was on a stage and he's going
up and down like for a thousand hours. You were
limping like if you could off.

Speaker 5 (15:37):
Your feet were like the front of pointed.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Feet point in that shoe. You had some couple I
was waddling.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
I will, let's talk about your boobies.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
No, not boobies, because I.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Agree that that was no boobies.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
The what's it.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Called the wrapank spanks?

Speaker 3 (16:01):
We were span you were spanked up. You were.

Speaker 5 (16:05):
It was because I to Ben the sausage skirts.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
It was a fucking everybody can't breathe for her.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I just I remember every every morning coming onto set
and Carrie would you know, greet everyone, and we'd bang
on the table and say what episode it was? Yeah,
just like this is episode three ten or.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Whatever it was. But you always walked in with like
with sunglasses on and your chunk.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Litas like looking like you'd had like a real night
chunk late like sandals like.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Slides, but you would always have to be cool, sneak.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
But yeah, but but in the morning, before he got
into costume, you would have your chunk litas on right
for sure, to rest those feet that were gonna climb
into those.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Come on.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
But you were such a rock star, such a movie star,
walking on into the into O p A just every morning,
And I just remember looking at you and just thinking
you were so and so amazing and so when your
energy was just so beautiful and so happy, and you always.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Brought so much happiness to say, you know what on
the worst day. Yeah, but I.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
Would see Germo with the sitting do you guys remember
I used to cut my hair for the first two seasons.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, by myself my hair till they finally.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
But Germo would be sitting and relaxing with those things
under his eyes on.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Inside like under them, use them. I want those things.
I use them almost a yeah, to do that. Those
were so bad.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, do you have any.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yes, I've watched every episode except when I died.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
After I died, it was over.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, well in more ways than one, it was
a group of after you died.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
I mean, listen, this show was.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Just never the same when when you left me it
wasn't no disrespect.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
You get there.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
We will be back with more after than break. What
are you some of your favorite keeping it like highlights
of acting, stuff that you got to do, Like do
you have any memories for me? It's obviously glad I
in her suit. Also you slow dancing with Abby.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's another thing I remember about that story.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Well, no, no Columbus short and Darby Stansfield is another
storyline because Darby is by the number. She's by the book.
She's so by the book and she could never figure
out how I was stumbling into work sometimes and I
couldn't remember lines, and she was strung and all right
if I was late are These are things that we'll

(18:46):
talk about later. But Darby Stansfield, I loved those moments,
the the the episode with the billionaire. Yes, I just
got that's my girl. But I'm doing Remember the microfiche
episode when I'm like, we're doing things on the microfiche,

(19:07):
you know, in the library.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Remember microfiche.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
Okay, first of all, guys, let's just put it on.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Do you guys remember this?

Speaker 4 (19:16):
Forget episodes when we had to have a meeting, a
securities meeting and the guy came and broke down everything
how to secure Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
He was like from Disney, know what was happening. I
remember it, but I didn't know what.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Was happening, Like if someone says scary ship to you online,
like let us.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
How to use our phones to go through. It was
a full securities and I was like, I remember that?
Did you guys?

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Do ever?

Speaker 4 (19:45):
I was like, I don't remember what he said, but
I look back like damn should wait.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
My other thing was remember this part where you go
that's big office talk or something for Henry and c
Sick's office, because.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
He and I got the office.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
And you got the office.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
But you did it because you're oh you remember, I'm
having flashbacks of your scene something. He throws you on
your on the back. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
I was so mad. Oh let's talk about that.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
I've always been taught you'll not ever lose a scene, right,
don't lose it. I was like, he gotta body me,
so I was like, I gotta have something I can do.
But you did the aftermath he does this like super theatrical,
like turning up off the table that I was.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
He was like, I don't know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Were you trying to do that to be like I'm cool,
I'm cool.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, that's the way it came on. So you did.
You ended up winning the scene, yo. But another another scene.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
That stuck out for me is the seven fifty two
episode when Harrison goes into the room and sits with Huck,
who is log saying the numbers. Oh, I watched it
again last night, said, just to refresh my memory.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Who was who directed that episode? What's her name? Alison
lay Brown? Aliston, You're incredible director. She took time with
all all.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Of us had big monologues in that episode except me.
I just kept saying, you were tripping, and it was
like what I was saying is what I could say
for real? Is that was the realist monologue of my life.
So good. I spoke to my life and respeks to
what it is right now.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like you're a talker, like talk talk to, talk talk to,
You're a door, yeah, you're you're say man, You're you're
an action man, you're a man yeah, and I'm outside.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah. So that's getting with me.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
But but then also Columbus at the end, you say,
I don't know what to do now, Like I don't
know what to do in this situation because me talking
is not going to help you.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
So I'm just.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Gonna sit here with you and wait for as long
as it takes and wain right here with you. Just
broke my heart. And you guys were also. Do you
remember that during the rehearsal for those monologues.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Shanda came down, rose it on down to set and
set in.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
The chair and watched you guys monologue. Oh my god, I.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
Got mine at six pm.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
I was up the first at six am. That's the
ship they used to do to me, because I was
and I deserved it. I was the rookie. That's fine,
throw me in.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
I will say this and I'll put this on everything
I love from Josh Molina, Jeff Jeffrey Wright, Tony Golden, you, Darby, you, everyone,
our carry Of course, what we showed up when.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
It was time.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
We knew, I don't care what was going on in
our lives personally, but when they said action, we had
to show up, and we did put it down.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
It also felt like it was something special, something rare
that doesn't happen often. Are are all of us coming
together and being on the show.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (22:47):
And then when when the pieces start getting some pieces
get removed and shifted around Bellamie, Oh my god, so great.
Then then it starts to become something else, not necessarily bad,
but it just becomes something different. But there's nothing like
those first like three seasons.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
We want back, like we haven't gotten there yet. But
there's something about like the Gladiators in O p A.
It's us and yeah and carry that just feels so good.
Stuff like it's just the most fun and the soundtrack
and the music and the moves and your songs and
you're so weird and I'm such a dork and Abby

(23:24):
so tough, like it was just like.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
Maybe it was really the off camera, so like, if
we're gonna be honest, like we spent most most more
time together then we spent with our family.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Together hours on hours weekly, millions of hours.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
I mean sometimes we did remember Friturdays.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, Saturdays, Yeah, Saturdays, Oh my god, I love you.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm like, how a rapping Saturday morning, five in the mornings.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
It was really crazy crazy and then we'd be back
five am Monday morning. It was barely any time. So
you got questions okay, yeah, okakay, favorite, uh fave costume.
Did you take a suit or seven?

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Oh, it's the one I took a picture with geramo in.
It's my favorite suit. It's a three piece suit. It's gray,
and I had a vest to vest suit and I
had a clock like she gave me a time. Do
you remember, Oh yeah, yeah that was I was.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
On television. But check it out.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
You also wore suspenders really well, like you wore suspended you.
You had an episode where you wore pink suspenders and
you looked so freaking you were.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
I remember there being like I was, and.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
Then the pants got tighter. It was the same thing.
It was like but the same. It was like she
had to start letting things out, like letting it. But
I was squeezing Magee and I was squeezing and some
of those squeeze it.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
In the season three high, Moode was right, I.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Think favorite actor to work with I can't.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
I can't.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
I have a favorite actor to work with is my
entire Scandal cast. And I put that on everything because
we played together the right way. That's it felt like
Jeffrey writes, my favorite actor, Wow, I would you know?
He pushed me. I can name a bunch of actors
but the way we worked, we got we were a

(25:32):
team and it was just I don't know, it was
just it's just.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
And you're right, it felt like it felt like one
one like.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
One of those scenes we had to nail where each
person would get a line or a paragraph and I
remember being like, oh my god, we're gonna get We're
gonna get it where no one would flub because it
would be like, you're not.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Allowed.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
So what I what what Shonda was writing and all
the writers, kudos to them, all the writers on Scandal.
They were writing a symphony. And so when you're writing
a symphony, everybody has to do their part to execute
the scene. Hell yeah, And as we were doing that,
there was music in the language, right, and all we
had to do was live in that.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Way, the orchestra each other.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, okay, hold on, before we get into some deeper stuff.
We normally do gear moot six Degrees of Horror.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Which upset Yeah, well and really quickly.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
The movie Quarantine that you did with Jennifer Carpenter is
one of the greatest freaking horror movies the dollar round.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
To them.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
What was that like working on that film?

Speaker 4 (26:44):
I was freak the funk out.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
I'm sorry the time. I don't. I don't watch horror
because I don't.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Like to in my spirit, right, I'm with you, not
a horror guy. Friends that are like yeah, yeah, yeah,
you're you know daging, you're VASKI, oh my guys like
they love horror.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
I was. I was scared.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
I was like, I was like, we're in this studio,
uh stage we on Sony Lot were on stage twelve
and they built this apartment and like, there's real zombies.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Like I was just like, I gotta because you got
to tell the truth. Yeah, tell the truth that it's
an actor. But I was I didn't have to act.
I was scared. They scared into a zombie.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
Like I got my net and I turned into a zombie.
And then I was like, how do you play a zombie?

Speaker 3 (27:41):
I was really committed.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
You were so good.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
He was so good.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
But also a moment yeah, but also in that movie,
you worked with Jennifer Carpenter, who is in the Extorcism
of which.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
I saw first.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yo, you saw that and you don't like movies. That
is the most horrifying.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
When I got the movie, when I got them, we
Clint told me Clint Clint Culpepper Joe k.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
So wait, so Clint says, go see I said.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
The Exorcism of Emily.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
When he gave me the movie, he said, go see
this movie, this is the Girl. And I said all right,
and I went to right there on our Victory and
Laura Canyon this movie theater by myself and I saw
the movie and I was crazy.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
I can never watch it again. And I love horror movies.
She's and it's based on a true story of a
girl that gets possessed, Yeah, by by your demon?

Speaker 3 (28:37):
You're not watching it? Yeah, well check out this segue.
This this slick segue. Going from.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Going from six degrees six degrees of Horror, I'm gonna
go to six degrees of Britney Spears.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Because because we both had our run ins with.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Me Spears so very lovely.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
You have to, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
List your first got both of my bees.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
Okay, really messed up.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
But Columbus choreographed the on its hotel tour, right Columbus,
I did, I did you need?

Speaker 5 (29:21):
What in the world?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
How did you book that? Like? How did that come about?

Speaker 4 (29:24):
It was so weird? Okay, So, so I was on
tour with Stomp. I was on broad right, right, that's right,
Like I'm making sounds with the objects, like with your feet.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Was like, that's why the feet were jacked up, because
you were stomping for years before scandal.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
So I said, I can't. I had a layoff. Do
you guys know what a layoff is on Broadway? If
you're on a Broadway tour, you get layoffs. So we
had a seven week layoff. They give you money to
sit down and chill until we pick up again on
whatever tour we're on. And this was right before September eleven.
I was in Temple, Florida, and I was high on Molly. No,

(30:07):
not Molly, Molly didn't exist. It was ecstasy, yeah. And
I saw Brittany with a PEPSI can and I was
with my friends and I said cast mates, and I said,
I'm getting up for one day. They were like, you're
freaking crazy. Anyway, come on for the layoff.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
I got.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
I get this house. I got seven thousand dollars, So
I put four thousand dollars down on this house. And
I'm living with these dancers and they're all dancers. I'm
just chilling, right, but they're you know, helping me pay
the rent in New York and they're going to dance
auditions and stuff, and I was like, I want to.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Do that, and of course you could do it.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
I want to do that. So I started going to
dance auditions and Wade.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yes, yes, yes, Michael Jackson to music.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
So here's the correlation. I was producing music with my partner,
Kevin tant Rohan, who was Wade's assistant, and so he
was like, we were making music. We're producing music where
we're writing and producing for artists that are in the game.
And he says, come to this audition and I got
cut in the first round. I didn't have with Brian Friedman.

(31:18):
I couldn't do that.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
I was, I don't believe I didn't have this.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I don't believe Okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Okay, And so I got cut and I was like, man, someday.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
So I worked.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
So what I started doing was it takes ten thousand
hours to be a master of air craft. So I
was like, I'm going to go to class every day.
So I started obsessing.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
I quit the tour, quit my job. I quit my job.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Well, I said, I'm not coming back. September eleventh, I
was supposed to be in Boston flight United. Wow, maybe
not the same flight, but still I pivoted and I said,
I'm in the five six.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
Every day.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
And then a year later, a year later, I was
working with Jamie King on a Nike industrial Jamie and
the Tallawego brothers and these people.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Jamie King, who produces and for Madonna has done a
bunch of tours of Madonna.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
So and breaking off the plane, we do a Nike
Industry on Japan. Where were we Japan or somewhere? And
he and we land back in l A and X
and he goes, tomorrow, I needs you to meet me
in Chicago. I said, meet you in Chicago. He said,
your flight's already booked. I'm literally getting my bag from
the thing. I go to Chicago and all of the

(32:42):
legendary choreographers are in Chicago, and I'm like, oh, what
is happening?

Speaker 3 (32:46):
I said, what's happening? I know I'm about to tell you.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
I said, what's happening Jamie? And he it's Oprah. We
gotta do Oprah. It's it's Oprah. We have to do
the gap campaign. What's happening? Madonna and Missy? Oh?

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yes? Remember remember? Yes?

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Of course?

Speaker 4 (33:03):
So he goes in back in the back of the stay.
So I'm looking at Gil, I'm looking at brand Friedman.
I mean, I mean like all.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Of the top of the game, the legendary choreographer.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
And he goes, I need six eight counter right now.
Columbus teach it to them and we're going on stage
in fifteen minutes. I said, So, I looking at hi guys,
love you guys man, I'm a big fan and five
six seven and I created something out of out of nowhere.

(33:38):
Boom We've got on stage. We did the Oprah I
booty bumped with the Oprah. Awesome moment shut and and
when I landed back in La, he goes, I want
you to be on the Brittany tour.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
What Yeah?

Speaker 4 (33:52):
And I'm doing the Brittany Tour. So I got the
Brittany tour one day while we're due I'm at rehearsal
for two weeks. I'm doing rehearsals with Brittany as a dancer,
just as a dancer. And you're high and my partner
Kevin tan Rowan, we are, who's a really stope director?
Now shout out keV and he's like, Columbus, we have

(34:14):
a session tonight and what are you doing. I'm like,
I'm at Brittany reheards the dude. He's like, be here
at six o'clock. It's like, boom, get to the studio.
I'm at the studio, said, who's our session with? And
he's like, wait for it, waiting for it. The gate
opens and it's fucking Brittany. Brittany, it's me. He didn't
tell me it's Brittany.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
They come.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
She comes in the.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Student with Felicia, with Felicia.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Remember Felicia, Flicia Felicia.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Oh yes, who is a bunch of the documentaries, an
old family friend.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yes, yes, Brittany and Felicia.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
Truck big, big rob It was big, No, it's big
Mike to get truck boom and she's like.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh my lord, Columbus, what you're dying?

Speaker 4 (35:00):
I said, what are you doing here? And she's like,
you're up. I was like, yeah, I'm believe.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
What song did you guys do me against the music? Oh?
My god? So wait with Madonna? Is that the woman Donna?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Let me tell you that I'm finishing the story. So
Brittany goes, We're in the studio, we're working, we're doing
remixes all the like cool remixes for the tour, like
to make certain numbers, invent certain numbers. Oops, I did again.
You know, you know slave, you know we're remixing stuff.
And she goes, I really hate and Larry Rudolph, never

(35:34):
forget Larry Rudolph is there and he and and she goes,
I there the single they want Me to do is
called outrageous by R. Kelly, and she goes, I don't
like this single. I don't want this to come out.
I don't want me against the music. I said, so,
what's the problem with me against the music? I heard

(35:55):
the record, Me and Kevin listen to the record, and
I said, I'm just sitting there and I rocked for
a couple of seconds, and I said, I got an idea.
Didn't you just kiss Madonna last week on the Movie Awards.
Swear to God, I said, didn't you just kiss Madonna?

Speaker 3 (36:09):
She said yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
I said, call Madonna right now, get her on this record.
You get Madonna, You get Madonna on this amazing, I
swear to God, this is how it went down. I said,
if you get Madonna on this record, she says, you said,
I said, call Madonna right now, right now, there's nothing. Note,
don't put off tomorrow. What you can do right now?

(36:31):
Call Madonna. She called Madonna. Madonna's like, I want to
hear it. I want to see it. So Madonna flies
to LA. The next day, I set up a rehearsal
at Culver City Studios with all the dancers to show
her the presentation.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
And Madonna's sitting and did you choreograph what you showed?

Speaker 4 (36:49):
Of course, So Madonna was like, yeah, I mean, next
thing I know. I hired Paul Hunter, the direct video
Hunter and boom At an MTV dude the video. We
did all this stuff and then we made the video.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
And then cut to me doing the I Want to
Go video with Brittany.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
I don't know how the hell I got that. That
was just chance.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
The director was a fan of Weeds and Half Baked,
and so in the beginning of the video, I stand
up and she says, you know, fuck you, fuck you
You're cool from Half Babe, and I'm the guy that
when she says you're cool, she points to me, and
I stand up and give the thumbs up.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
That's all I was supposed to do in the video.
And then the night so psyched. Oh yeah, but not close.
Madonna was coming to come to our set. You kid, you.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Wouldn't have survived. He would not have.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
I was working on it, so like trying to get
Madonna to just come in one day and just squeeze,
you would have died.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Died. Rae was a regular on Scam. Yes, she came
and she was like, Ellen DeGeneres is having Madonna as
a guest tomorrow. We're going to get g on it.
He's going to be the guest.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
J I got showed him.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
I showed her my show.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah yeah, I showed him my tattoo of her.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
She doesn't know. And I got down on my knees
and bowed. And the look on Madonna's face was like, oh, yeah,
that's exactly where you should be.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Why isn't everyone else on their knees.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
But anyway, this isn't about Madonna, it's not about Brittany,
It's about Columbus short.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
But it's the best.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
This is crazy, That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Like you brought all of that to Harrison is how
I like the moving and the musicality of Harrison. It
is not lost on me that no one, none of
us could do that, because none of us were choreographing
for fucking Britney Spirits or asking Madonna to be on
one of her songs.

Speaker 5 (38:40):
Okay, okay, we already talked about this part.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Okay, deep questions, let's go, let's go.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
We'll be right back. Guys.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I don't even know where to start with this, but
like I'm trying to even remember, like where when it
started to fall apart.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
So I would I would whisper in Gierramo's ear because
you know, I was struggling, guys like I was. You know,
my marriage was was toxic, it was terrible, and I
was using drugs to try to battle whatever I was
going through with my marriage and all this stuff. But
I just or the one thing I knew my life

(39:22):
could be in shambles, The one thing I knew was
not let you guys down. So I'd come and to
Garramu and tell him stuff like man, this this heaven,
this is what's going on. You know, I was showing
up late work, unprofessional I was doing. I just started
to fall apart because I had my life became unmanageable

(39:43):
and and and I didn't and I wanted to protect
myself from shame and also shanda and Mary. I thank
you guys, Betsy, I thank you guys. They were trying
to protect me too, and I but when it came,
when it became too, when I wasn't being honest with

(40:06):
things and wasn't like, what's really going on? Are you
with your wife or you're not with your wife? We
told you to get out of that situation. You're not,
You're still in it. You're doing all these weird things,
blah blah blahm. And then once it was over, well,
I remember the call. So I was in this ten
thousand square foot house and.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I remember you getting that.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yep, And I'm in this ten thousand square foot house.
I knew Season four, I'm about to get paid. We're
about to get paid, right, we were about to get paid,
and I boom trumped out here. But I had already
made my private decision to remove myself from the toxicity.
But they were the person the individual, wasn't They were like, oh,

(40:46):
he really is doing that. And then it was headline,
out of nowhere, out of nowhere, this is true, out
of nowhere. I had like Shanda calls me with Betsy,
Mary Paul Lee ahead of.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
On the phone.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
That's a tough call all the agencies. But everybody's on
the phone and they're like, Columbus, we need no more headlines.
I said, I swear to God there will be no
more headlines. I'm trying to stay out the way. So
I dipped Arizona and I dipped that Arizona. And two
weeks later, TMZ dropped the headline that I that I
ransacked my house or some some some headline. I don't

(41:28):
remember it, but it's something like that. You gotta know
what it's just. It was strategic.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
So that happens, I.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Go into a spiral because I get the call, I know,
Monday morning. This happened on a Friday. I said, Monday,
I'm gone. I'm gone. No, I know it for sure.
So I was just praying. I was like, but they
called me. I was like, they said, but as they said,
you know, we're gonna we can't move forward Columbus like this,
and we were going in the season four. Guy, Yeah,

(42:01):
I was so broken hearted and I went into I
went into a dark, darn place for years and and
because not only were you guys my family, it was
my livelihood, of course, my you know my name, and
when it was not you know, I had my own issues,

(42:22):
but the issues that were being named in the public
were not my issues.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
So I was just like, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
No, no, yes, drugs were an issue, marriage was an issue,
but there were things that came out in the press.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, I've never abused no women like that. This I
was the first meet to guy.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
I started it before it was even me too, wasn't
even it was just me.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
It was okay, so it was But the drugs and
things like that, that was like in because I remember, yeah,
like one in two.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
You guys supported my son's football team. You guys that
money in That's right, that's right, super yeah, yeah, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
Yeah, whatever, So I and I, you know, it's funny.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
I didn't mention it, but I remember, you know, you're
such a stand up guy in your heart, Like I
remember you're complaining about your feet hurting so bad, and
we're wrapping at seven o'clock in the morning and you're
like rushing home to go straight to like take your
kid to school, you know what I mean. Like you
were like and then I don't know when it shifted
whatever happened in season three. I don't know what drugs keeping.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Thing secret from you guys. Yeah, like I Giermo was
my secret squirrel, Like for real, he knew about ida
with my wife, you know, he knew that was happening early,
the little small little della when.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
We were we were trailer mates too, like where we
shared a trailer.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
But yeld me just tell me the truth. I was
so ashamed of course life. Yeah, it was raggedy. My
life was raggedy. And I just want to say I
was making mistakes. So imagine I've for since I was
a kid. The only thing I knew was entertainment. The

(44:09):
only thing I knew how to do was to dance,
to sing, to play the mute, play drums, play keyboard, playing,
sing and act. That's all I knew how to do.
I didn't know how to do anything when the rug
was perverbally a slip from underneath me. So I went
into a spiral and I kept making stupid ass mistakes.
I was doing it on purpose. I was making dumb,

(44:31):
dumb decisions. And tell my wife, thank you to my
wife who was my friend before she was my wife,
And was like, Columbus, you are better than this. You
are you can and I and she and then we
and she got pregnant and then with Denzel and I

(44:52):
named him Didnzel, And from the moment Denzel was born,
it was like, let's go, let's get it back. Things
starting to happen. Yes, yes, and I'm just it was
just a change in my life. And life's not perfect.
But when you of course not when you're when you're
walking with the proverbial scarlet letter on your back or

(45:12):
this this, this misnomer.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Or this dark cloud. It's hard.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
It's hard, and the hardest part of it if anything
was missing you guys, I put that on everything I
love for us, letting you guys down. I knew you
guys couldn't talk to me. I knew Carrie couldn't talk
to me. I knew it was I knew what it
was that you don't have to even say that. It
was just like Columbus is boom bomb ostraciz is type thing.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
But it was awful, you know, Yeah, you know how
hard it was to shoot that scene where where Harrison dies,
Like we were all like sobbing that day, everybody, even Oliver,
I remember Oliver miss Man.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Yeah, that was that was one of.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
The hardest watch honestly, Like, as your friend but also
as an artist, it was just like, I mean, it
was really hard to watch someone mess up who has
more talent in his finger than anybody you know. And
it was like even you on your worst day, if

(46:17):
you're late, or you had had at night or whatever,
it was like you, even then your acting was phenomenal,
still brought it to watch some unacceptable it's not professional,
not excepting, but I'm just saying, you're such a talented
human being and to watch you, for whatever reason, sabotage

(46:37):
and make the choices that I get yourself out was
hard to be like, oh my god, like please please don't, don't. Don't, don't,
don't don't. We've got such a good thing going.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Like linch, I don't want to get emotional because I
remember the day when you guys are you and Darby
Gus pulled up on the van when it was all
going down that day, I was I was having a
nervous breakdown and I just had to get through the

(47:13):
day right And we got through the day, and you know,
I pushed through all of that and man, I was like,
I'm not gonna do this today. I'm not gonna get
emotional today. But you guys don't even know, like I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, Katie, I'm sorry, Gammook, like I'm from the

(47:36):
bottom of my heart. I'm sorry man, because you guys
were my team and I was a team leader, and
I'll let you guys down and I deal with that
every day.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
You're so good man. If anything it you know you.
I never felt like you let me down. I felt
more pissed off and upset and so sad that you
weren't going to be there anymore and you were letting
yourself down.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
More than anything. I never felt like the fuck.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
It was more like where's Columbus, Like he's gone, that's
not there, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
I let Carrie down.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Have you ever talked to them since?

Speaker 4 (48:17):
No, I've talked to Carrie, but I have not been
able to say I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
And you know, through all you know, therapy and the
groups and the classes and all the stuff that I've done,
it's about making amends and not just like I've been
able to make amends to the closest alligators to the boat,
but I've never been able to This is the first time.
If Seanda's hearing this, if Carrie's hearing this, and I'm sorry, Tony,

(48:45):
I'm sorry, Jeff, I'm sorry, Me, I'm sorry. You know
what I mean. Like that, that's it I say about that.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Listen, every time we all speak and we get together
and you up, it's it's it's nothing but love, like
it is always likes.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Always it is always like and like it is like
I've never heard anybody truly like It's what Gierma was saying.
Everyone was like, we don't want to lose you, and
we felt like we had this. You know, it was
so crazy being on a Judy Smith Olivia Pope show
because I think actually, maybe you were going down way

(49:27):
earlier than any of us kind of knew. And we
were so good at like keeping shit under wraps almost
because you were fixers that Like I think like even
before you know, I don't know what was going on
in your personal life, but stuff was going on. I
don't know if Judy helped.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
You or that.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, and I feel like I don't know if that
was for better or for worse.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Who you know and you know so so part of it.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
It's a long time ago now. And again, like GiMA said,
no one ever said bad shit about you.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Say this and closing is that I didn't know the
impact of me being an African American male number two
on the call sheet. After Steven left second season, we
were in our bubble. We all we did was worked.
I was all work in Twitter. That's what I didn't know.

(50:20):
I didn't know how I was really impacting a culture
that's a lot of.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I couldn't until I was fired.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
And then it was like this one time Dave Chappelle,
I went twitch to the laugh Factory and Dave Sapelle
there and I had done I got on stage because
I don't know if you guys know I do stand
up on the you know, I've been started in stand
up early. And so anyway, Dave. I went up before
Dave and Dave they goes Columbus short, This's crazy, this is.

Speaker 7 (50:54):
He said, he was this, This man was on scale
of Harrison right. He said, how did you fuck up?
Right in front of everybody? And I was just like
he said, and he just it was such a dope.
He killed me, but he was killing me with.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
Love and and and you know, from that day I
just was like moving through earth, like journeying through earth
with a with a with a with a cloud and
it's like every move I was making, I was like,
I got how am I gonna? I almost gave up
a few times, multiple times, gave up on life, not

(51:35):
committed sudicide. But I'm saying just like I'm gonna this is,
I'm done, and I don't know what else to do.
I don't I'm not And and thank you, Thanks be
to God for my wife, from from my kids, inspirations
that come from multiple sources. And I prayed for this day,
the day that I could look at you and say

(51:56):
I'm sorry, and look at you and say I'm sorry
you and and have this one moment to make a miss.
And this is a blessing right now.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
So that's all I want to feel that way.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
I'm like you've been. We were like, can we get
Columbus on here, Like do you think he would be
open to like hanging out and talking about it? Because honestly, dude,
you're such when we watch it back like you're the show.
It's just like you're.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
So we were the show.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Yeah, where did you get like tell me about now,
like ten years later or however long it is. I
think it's even longer longer. I don't know how did you.
I know, thank God your wife and your kids like
set you straight and clean and things like that. But
was there, like what else helped you? Therapy? You said,

(52:47):
have you done?

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (52:49):
I started going to twelve Steps and going to group
meetings with you know, people that have struggled with all
kind of things, and through that, I'm becoming, believe it
or not, an avoc like an ambassador and an advocate
and a leader in these spaces where I'm like, these

(53:11):
people are broken, these people are struggling, and and and
it's it's every week I just I get something else.
And uh so I've been doing that for a while
and it's changed my life in terms of interpersonal relationships
and even me and my wife couples therapy, like I

(53:32):
want our marriage to thrive, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean. It's good like shop, you
got to deal with you, right, you gotta do you go,
so we got to deal with humans and and through
that when my life was completely goal oriented, my goals

(53:55):
now are peace in my home, peace with my kids,
their productivity, education, surrounded by love, non toxicity in the home.
All of these things, these are the things that those
are the things that are important to me and to
in my life. And so that's and and let me

(54:17):
just say this, even though those are the things that important,
don't think that I don't miss being at the highest
level of the game. Of course, because this is my craft.
I miss it.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
So tell me about that. Have you been acting lately?
Like what's going on?

Speaker 4 (54:30):
And now?

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Well, I was relegated to the two V movies and BT.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
Plus minus b A T minus and all of those things.
So I was doing those, was keeping food in my mouth.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Listen, I can name a couple of things. I am
so proud of about thing. So I started a tech
company and play a lot of golf.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
And I started athlete.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
Yeah I'm an athlete, and I was right, I know, so,
so play a lot of golf. So I started a
tech company called ORCA United Society ORCA United. We're dealing
in tech, but we're Web three, Web four, we're dealing
with sports entertainment. We are in multi media, the new

(55:15):
Web three multimedia UH entertainment company. So with that has
come multiple opportunities as we're leading the way. In understand,
I was on, I was, I was, I was dealing
with AI before SAD was dealing well right, And that's
what I was doing all the low. Did you get
into this magical mystery? And but I'm blessed and so

(55:39):
yeah and so. But but what the core is I
want to make product. I want to continue to make
good television, continue to make good film, continue to put
athletes in positions to be successful on the golf course,
on the football field, on the basketball court, any in
any avenue. And and that is kind of the conglomorate

(56:01):
that's been kind of brought to me. But one of
the things that was hyper important. And I'll bring it
back to one. Until home got right, Nothing that I
do it was going to be right. And this is
us getting it right. Yeah, I love you, Love you
so much.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
To Columbus.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
I am content and happy where I am in life. Obviously,
you know, I believe that great things are ahead for
all of us. And you know I'm always going to
have for you. I'm always going to have your back.
I'm going to always tell you over a cliff and
that's period, point blank. I live by that.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Hell, you look at this guy, yo.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
But here here's a fun question. Did you ever think
about how you would have liked Harrison, how you would
have liked his story to end on Scandal because I
mean the way it ended.

Speaker 4 (56:50):
Was you know, it was tragic. It was tragic, and
it was thought that post and the guy I watched
like three or four episodes, you know a yeah, like
I'm talking about season four. Season four was tough even
and Cornelius, you did a wonderful job. Cornelius, you did
a wonderful job. You know that was you were you were,

(57:14):
you were stellar, coming in solid as a rock. But
it was it was tough for me to see that
I wasn't on my team. Can you imagine a football player.
Imagine Travis Kelce not being able to be on the
field with Patrick Mahomes and you know, the rest of

(57:34):
his team playing them for the Super Bowl. That's what
I felt like. I felt like an injured player on
the field and it was so I couldn't watch. But
when I did watch, was you guys holding it up
and holding up the standard and doing it the right way,
and and I was like, they're good, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Hell yah?

Speaker 1 (57:54):
So wait, so did you say how you would have
liked Harrison's story to end.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
I would have liked Harrison to eventually have been with Katie,
how we started.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Like in like in a relationship.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
It was it was Nonslieve came in, but but you know,
and I was mad by the way, how you get
a sex scene before me?

Speaker 3 (58:20):
What the hell was listen? I was shocked to Darby
get a second. Y'all, y'all was having sex. Y'all was
having sex. I was having no sex. I don't have sex.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
I remember like three when things were starting to.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Go, they waited.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I didn't have no Yeah, taking off, like taking shirt off,
like taking shout.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
My wasn't ready.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I still used to say, though, I remember like you
were upset right like, and you were upset that they
were and giving you a ton.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Of storyline no storyline, And I'm sending her emails.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Like, but that's because season three four, wasn't she saying?
Am I making this up? I don't know my memory.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
I was faulty as a human.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, she was saying, prove that you can do it, yes,
and I'll give it to you.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Yes. That was it. That was it.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I remember you were pissed so you would go to
table reads and it wouldn't be like a real Harrison
Juicy story.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
You were just late three times ready to do it.
You were late three times last week, and how am
I going to give you a storyline? You were late
last month? Darby's complaining. This person's complaining. This is you know,
you're not showing, You're not showing up and doing trust
you with more, and you're not doing the job right.
And even though the ratings were right, numbers are right

(59:47):
for Life, but they were Harrison Ryan, but the Life
was Harrison wrong wrong.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Yeah, So you know, since then, as a producer, as
I'm producing projects just like you do, just like you
guys do, Like I never realized the responsibility of like
you know, time is money. This is this Like I'm like, dude,
when people showing up late to my set, I'm like, gosh,
what are you doing this? And I'm like, I have

(01:00:17):
to stall myself out with certain actors, young actors that
I'm like being hard on them. But I was doing
the same stupid ship and so I'm like, man, now
I look back, if I could have did it again,
oh man, I would have did it different. But everything
that I went through, everything that I did, all the mistakes,
has led me to the man that I am. To him,

(01:00:39):
I'm proud of the man I am.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
No regrets man, no regrets.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
What are your acting roles right now? Like where do
you where would you love to I.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
Don't have dream acting roles. I played Martin Luther King recently.
That was one of the dreams. My dream is to
be able to put other actors and tell good stories,
not black stories, not like you believe it or not.
When I'm the director and the studio, when I'm Lou Wasserman,

(01:01:08):
the movie I want to make, I want to make
The Diary and Frank you know, those are the movies
I want to make. I love that story.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Definitely.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
You know there's a story of there's a story of
Japanese soldiers in World War Two that nobody talks about,
the nis A soldiers. Those are stories I want to tell.
It's not about you to direct, direct, produce and act.
But really, if I know that, if I can I
have the infrastructure to put actors in positions to make

(01:01:43):
successful stories and tell truthless stories, then I'm doing the
right drop period, point blank album. I got an album.
I'm not doing an album to win Grammys necessarily or
to sell go platinum. I'm forty one years old. I
just want to make for I have to finish the
the assignment. And you know my album's done, it's coming out.

(01:02:03):
You're singing, Yeah, yeah, my album.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Can you tell us what it's called and where we
can find the headlines? When does the drop?

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
We're gonna drop it in the spring. Yeah, it's coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
It's coming in hot Okay. In closing, yes, is there
anything that you feel like you have not said or
want to say or anything? I don't feel like that,
but I just want you to leave feeling.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
The only thing I want to leave saying is I
am sorry and over a cliff. Hell.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Yeah, that's it always man. Thank you for doing this.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Yep, appreciate you doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
We're happy.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
Love you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review.

Speaker 8 (01:02:53):
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
follow along by rewatching Scandal on.

Speaker 8 (01:03:09):
Hulu Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio
in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your
favorite shows.