Episode 7: The Aftermath

Many people who were incarcerated at Mt. Meigs as children ended up spending their entire lives tethered to the criminal legal system. Many were sentenced to life in prison. Many others were sentenced to death. This episode traces the lives of two of those people: Jesse James Andrews and Johnny Mack Young. 

If you or someone you know attended Mt. Meigs and would like to connect with us, please email [e-mail]. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
School of Humans. Please note that this episode discusses physical
and sexual abuse, and another note, lots of the audio
in this episode is from thirty year old deposition hearings.
The rest was recorded from phone calls with someone incarcerated,
so warning that parts of this are a little hard
to hear. In nineteen seventy nine, in Los Angeles, two men,

(00:36):
Jesse James Andrews and Charles Sanders, stood at the door
of Preston Wheeler's apartment. Preston was home with his girlfriend,
Patrice Brandon, and when they saw the two men outside,
they invited them in. They weren't expecting trouble. After all. Preston,
a small time drug dealer, and Jesse were friendly, but

(00:59):
Jesse and Charles were not there as friends. According to Charles,
Jesse tie Preston and Patrese up while the two of
them ransacked the apartment looking for money and drugs and valuables.
When they didn't find anything worthwhile, Jesse raped and strangled
Patrese to death with a hanger before sodomizing and murdering Preston.

(01:23):
A neighbor, Ronald Chisholm, having heard a commotion, went to
make sure that Preston was okay. Charles later testified that
Jesse invited and rattled in and then strangled him in
the bathtub. Jesse and Charles went about a year before
being caught. Charles was arrested first and agreed to testify

(01:45):
against Jesse in exchange for a reduced sentence. Jesse was
ultimately arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. You hear
about a crime like this and you think, how could
someone do this? What is it about them that would
make them do something this brutal, cruel, this evil. The

(02:09):
answer requires us to go back fifteen years before that
triple murder, back to nineteen sixty four when Jesse James Andrews,
aged thirteen, was sent to Mount Meg's. When I first
got the email about Mount Megs, I was horrified by
the story and what the kids went through. But there

(02:30):
was one particular part that stuck with me that made
me feel like I had to tell the story. Not
what Mount Megs did to children, but how it changed
the trajectory of those children's lives once they became adults.
We've told you the stories of some of them. Jenny Knox,
Mary Stevens, Johnny Bodley and Lonnie Holly. We've told you

(02:54):
about how they came to Mount Megs scared and alone,
how they learned to adopt, how they suffered. So it
may sound strange to say this, but in many anyways, Jenny, Mary,
Johnny and Lonnie were the lucky ones, lucky despite the
fact that they're still haunted by what happened to them,

(03:16):
even though they're now in their sixties and seventies. But
many people who were incarcerated at Mount Meg's as children
ended up spending their entire lives tethered to the criminal
legal system. Many were sentenced to life in prison. Many
others were sentenced to death. I'm Josie Duffie Rice and

(03:39):
this is Unreformed The Story of the Alabama Industrial School
for Negro Children, Episode seven, The Aftermath. Jesse James Andrews

(04:08):
went to trial and was sentenced to death via gas
chamber in nineteen eighty four, but a few years later
he appealed, arguing that his attorneys hadn't presented mitigating evidence.
When a defendant is facing a possible death sentence, they're
allowed to present evidence that could convince the jury that
a life sentence would be more appropriate. The evidence could

(04:31):
include many things developmental delays, remorse age, or childhood trauma.
Jesse wanted to tell the court about Mount Megs for
his appeal. Jesse's lawyers wanted to talk to others who
knew Jesse when he was at Mountmegs. In total, thirty

(04:53):
two former Mountmegs students sat for depositions. Every single one
of them had spent significant time in adult prison. The
day nineteen, Could you say your name again to the record, please,
Johnny McNiel, Richard Everley, Junior, Holiver Clifton Weekly, Vernon Madison,

(05:16):
Testing rain Row of Young Bolish Founcer and mister Raines.
You're presently incarcerated or in custody at the Alabama prison system.
That's right. Um. Could you tell me where you were

(05:37):
raised or practice in Threal. I've been about twenty seven
twenty year, you know, Mount Megan. Yeah, it's been thirty
years since those depositions. We reached out to all the
people who were deposed who are still living, most of
whom are still in prison. We only heard back from

(05:58):
one person. This is a prepaid collect call from an
incarcerated individual at Alabama Department of Correction. Miscall is not private.
It will be recorded and maybe monitored. You may start
the conversation now, OK, my man is Johnny Mack. This
is Johnny Mack Young. Not to be confused with Johnny Bodley,

(06:20):
who you've also heard from today. Johnny Mack is seventy three.
He's at the Saint Clair Correctional Facility in Springvale, Alabama.
Johnny Mack's life parallels Jesse's in many ways. They come
from the same part of Alabama. As children, they were
both sent to Mount Meg's and as adults both were

(06:42):
sentenced to prison for murder. Well one of the most
violent persons that you would ever have met in your life,
and those characteristics wols in steel in me when I
was a tweer of thirteen year child in my mayor's
reformatur Johnny Mack was born in a small town called Pritchard, Alabama.

(07:03):
Pritchard was very segregated. Johnny Max says he didn't even
meet a white person until he was seven. Like many
of the other survivors we've heard from, Johnny Mack was
one of several siblings, but he was closest to his
older sister Rose and his brother James. Rose will go
to school where she came home. She pulls us learned

(07:25):
how to write. She pulls us loud and leave with
Rose's help. Johnny Mack was pretty good at school. He
liked reading and math, but by age twelve, he was
starting to get into trouble. He'd rather life would have
been a whole lot too, But instead of listening to
his sister, Johnny Max says, he started running in the streets.

(07:49):
He kept running away from home and playing hooky from
school until eventually he was declared incorrigible and sent to
Mount Meg's. He got there around the same time as Lonnie,
and his stories about his time there echoed the ones
we heard from everyone else. Like the physical violence right

(08:09):
then there was a sexual violence. They will out of
being forced to work in the fields from dawn to
dusk were so long curved and the earth that the
role was dropping out Barry mister Glover's beating stick, which
Glover named John Henry think John John even attempting to

(08:36):
run away multiple times. After attempting to escape six times,
Johnny Mac stopped running away once he discovered the consequences.
Johnny Mack was an ike that was slang for the
tough guys. He says that at Mount Meg's you had

(08:57):
to be on guard all of the time. You can
trust you hey, a friend better. On April fifth, nineteen
sixty eight, the day after Martin Luther King was killed,
Robert Kennedy gave a speech called on the Mindless Menace
of Violence, where he talked about the cowardice of the
bullet like the one that had ended King's life and

(09:20):
would end his own just two months later. But he
mentioned another kind of violence too, which he called quote
slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or
the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions,
in difference and in action and slow decay. This is

(09:41):
the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between
men because their skin has different colors. It was the
institutional violence at Mount Meg's that led to the harm
that many of its former residents would later commit. And
this is part of the legacy of Mount Meg's too,

(10:01):
what the institution did to those children even when they
weren't children anymore, people like Johnny mack Young and Jesse
James Andrews. In nineteen sixty four, a new student arrived
at Mount Meg's, a kid named Jesse James Andrews, the

(10:22):
same Jesse who twenty years later would be sentenced to
death for triple homicide. Johnny Mack took notice of him
since the two boys were from the same area in Alabama.
The first thing that stood out about Jesse is that
he was small. Johnny Mack described him as passive, soft
week new arrivals were always subject to some hazing, but

(10:48):
it was worse for the ones they called scrubs, kids
like Jesse, the guys who were easily preyed upon. The
ones Johnny Body described as suckers, guys like that, the
vulnerable ones. They stood out like sore thumbs at Mount
Meg's vulnerability put a target on your back, and right

(11:09):
away Jesse caught their attention. Even years later, the other
kids remembered how much more abuse he endured than most
From what you observed during the time when you and
Jesse were both at Mount may With Jesse treated any
better than any of the other kids there, And my
old thing, I would say he was treating a little

(11:30):
bit worse because of his side, you know. Like for
me knowing Jesse and looking at him, I had to say,
you know, he has a great feminine look about himself.
So I said, hey, you're going to have a hard time.
You remember actually seeing mister Blobard hit Jesse with the Bullwin? Yes?
Did you ever see Jesse hit at the morning Ben? Yes,

(11:50):
I've seen me. Jesse was assaulted and tortured, not just
by the staff but by other kids. He was a
laughing stock, a frequent punching bag, and an even more
frequent rape victim. Johnny Max says that he and some
others taught Jesse how to fight, but the way they

(12:11):
did that was by beating him themselves. Well, one of
the things that we did was we like passed on
the rules and you know, like a code of conduct,
teach them how to survive. Okay, what was the code
of conduct? But you don't let nobody or do nothing
you to get away? And you didn't. I will show

(12:31):
funds of Weaknessess. Johnny Mack and Jesse were released from
Mount Meg's in the mid nineteen sixties. They'd crossed paths
many years later under very different circumstances, but as kids
leaving Mount Megs thrown out to fend for themselves, they'd
had a certain mentality instilled in them. Hurt them before

(12:52):
they hurt. You, trust nobody, and never show weakness. At
age fifteen, Johnny Mack was released from Mount Meg's. He
found himself with no money and no help, and he

(13:15):
ended up in a small town where he broke into
a grocery store. That's how wind up going to jail.
Just a month after he left Mount Meg's, Johnny Mack
was locked up once again. This time he was sent
to the adult jail. I'm fifteen years old. For me,
godja would be grown ay. They all big and swoll

(13:37):
up because he's pushing up. And back then there were
often kids in adult correctional facilities, and that's still the
case today. This is one of the many unimaginable elements
of our criminal justice system, shoving children into adult prisons
and jails to fend for themselves. Given his years at

(13:59):
Mount Meg's, some of the most brutal parts of jail
were familiar to Johnny Mack. He told us a story
about time when he beat an older inmate with a
metal lunch tray. I need him wait to knocked him down.
Johnny Mack went to trial for this assault. He was
convicted and sentenced to three years and at Moore prison,

(14:21):
a notoriously terrible adult penitentiary in Alabama. Jesse James Andrews
was also sent to Atmore. That triple homicide that Jesse committed.
It turns out it wasn't his first time being charged
with murder. Just three months after he left Mount Meg's,
in the wake of the abuse and torture, he was

(14:42):
implicated in another killing, though he didn't pull the trigger.
He was only fifteen years old. Johnny Mack got out
of Atmore at eighteen and moved up North. Over the
next several years, he was in and out of various
correctional facilities in different states across the country. In New Jersey,

(15:02):
he was charged with multiple counts of assault and robbery.
He also has a record in Ohio. But Johnny Mack
even said in those depositions from the nineties that Mount
Meg's was worse than any prison he went to as
an adult. What would you say the level of violence
was The man made to Fanny at the prodeo time

(15:23):
Aunt made was rougher than the prison Instachusetts. He had
to be tough, you know. The event that brought him
back home to Alabama was a theft gone wrong in
the nineteen eighties, Johnny Mack was living in New Jersey
and started robbing local drug dealers with a woman named Candy.

(15:45):
One night, the people Candy and Johnny Mack planned to
rob had been tipped off that they were coming. A
shootout ensued. My girl Candy, Yeah, the hardback shotgune. Johnny
Mack hid behind a couch and Candy came in the
back door with her automatic shotgun. She gave cover for
Johnny Mac to grab the drugs in cash and run

(16:07):
out the back. He was grazed with a bullet on
his way out. Candy ran out the front and straight
into the police, who arrested her and hauled her off
to jail, but Johnny Mack escaped and he fled back
home to Alabama. When Johnny Matt got to Alabama, he

(16:31):
ended up back near Pritchard in Mobile County, where he
was born. After a failing drove a lot of the
still right. He had a whole drug operation run out
of two buildings hidden away outside Mobile. He was making
good money and in a way he was settling down.
He started dating a woman who had kids and they

(16:52):
all moved in together in a house up on a
hill in a community called eight Mile, Johnny Mack was
stepping in as a father figure. Were warm fall that
it treats me. He loved them as if they were
his own, he said, especially the youngest daughter, who he'd
take a round with him everywhere. He started boxing when

(17:14):
he lived in New Jersey, so he'd take her to
the gym with him or out whenever he was running
errands for the home. But Johnny Mack was still hustling
selling drugs, still had that Mount Meg's mentality instilled in him.
Then he met another woman, one much younger than him.

(17:35):
She was in an altercation with a guy who worked
with Johnny Mack's operation. She ended up shooting at the guy,
and when he tried to retaliate, Johnny Mack stepped in
and knocked him out. Johnny Mack was impressed by this
woman's zeal. He described her as a gangster. So even
though he had his family on the hill, he started
seeing this new woman too. But soon after Johnny Mack

(17:59):
discovered she was stealing money from him, money that he
says he needed to support his family. You can't take
him out by you're taking money on my baby's mouth.
He was furious. According to Johnny Mack. He told her
she'd better not come around him anymore, but he says
she stole from him one more time. Flash, Jane, Babe

(18:20):
stole my money. I killed him. The Alabama Department of
Corrections classification summary for Johnny Mac reads Sean and killed
female victim who was two months pregnant. Johnny Mack was
in his thirties when he was convicted. He's been in

(18:42):
prison for thirty six years. He is serving a life
sentence without the possibility of parole, which means he will
die in a place where he has spent most of
his life. In Alabama prison. Johnny Mack Young was sentenced

(19:06):
to life without parole in nineteen eighty six. By the
mid nineteen nineties, he had escaped from prisons in Alabama
several times and had racked up dozens of serious disciplinarian fractions.
When I came to Bridge, that's the ad that moms vititude.
That's when Johnny Mack heard that Jesse had committed three
murders in California. The story he heard was slightly different

(19:29):
than what's in the legal documents. He heard that Jesse
was with two other guys, not just Charles I Elina
lomeboy was that MoMA the California killed somebody. The kinner
was so henious molded to homeboy running out of the
building and left him in there. And he had told

(19:52):
him and he wounded up getting no give room. Johnny
Mack remembered just how much violence Jesse had been forced
to endure, so he and another prisoner who knew Jesse
wrote to Jesse's lawyers. You write the lawyers to Gil
the Voynu everything on the belief, and then we told

(20:14):
him about Mamay. Now, Johnny Mack wasn't writing the lawyers
solely out of the goodness of his heart. He told
us that he was hoping that Jesse's lawyers would bring
him out to California for an official statement. He thought
they'd give him plenty of opportunities to escape to secure
his runaway plan. Johnny Mack was trying to be as

(20:34):
helpful as possible to Jesse's lawyers, even finding more inmates
for them to talk to. We gave him too many
a day. But unfortunately for Johnny Mack, Jesse's lawyers found
so many former Mountmeg students incarcerated in the Alabama prison
system alone that instead of bringing everyone to California, the
lawyers decided to come south. They talked to those thirty

(20:57):
two in mates and prisons around Alabama, at facilities like Kilby,
Saint Clair, Donaldson, Elmore, and Holman where people on death
row are imprisoned. How would you describe the effect that
Mountain Max had our youth? But I tell you one
that was a lot of fear, but a lot of
hit me man with the wold. They've had me messed

(21:20):
up as a chip on my shoulder and put so
much anger and hate inside of you until when giving
a chance, it's like saying, all of a sudden you
run through the woods and you was the rabbit. The
next thing you knew, you come up in your warf
So you want to hunt you some rabbits too, you know?

(21:42):
Hear me with a lot of hate. Couldn't help them,
but they hate Wait the way they treat you, and
we were we was being treated worth the dull man
and everybody, the most most of y'all that I was, Yeah,
I made him me brially most everybody you knew a
Mountain Matthew later, so PRIs yesself? Would you say that

(22:04):
you're experiencing had anything to do with your convictions for
blas later in mine. Yeah, gave me the foundation for
everything that I am, all that I am proud of me,
all that I would always be a proud of tomou me.
There's no question that Jesse did something unspeakably horrible when

(22:27):
he killed Preston Wheeler, Patrice Brandon, and Ronald Chisholm. And
yet if there was ever legitimate mitigating evidence, his time
at Mount Meg's would seem to qualify. And if his
experience wasn't enough, thirty two other people testified under oath
about what they had gone through, how it changed them,

(22:50):
and what they had seen Jesse indoor, but the court
wasn't convinced. In two thousand and two, the Supreme Court
of California upheld Jesse's death row sentence. It wasn't until
a subsequent appeal into thousand and nine that the court
recognized the traumatic impact of what Jesse had endured. His

(23:11):
death sentence was overturned and he was resentenced to life
without parole. Jesse James Andrews is still alive today after
years in the infamous San Quentin Prison in California. He
is now at the California healthcare facility, which houses many
elderly incarcerated people with chronic health conditions. We reached out

(23:34):
to him and as lawyers, but we didn't hear back.
Jesse and Johnny Mack aren't the only former Mount Meg's
kids to be convicted of murder. There's Sam Howard, Kevin Hawker,
who's Roosevelt young Blood, once the longest serving prisoner in Alabama.
There are men who left Mount Meg's and committed murder

(23:57):
within months when they were still just kids. There are
people whose names were keeping private because they're still appealing
their sentences. And there are hundreds more people who endured
so much cruelty at Mount Meg's as children and then
inflicted serious violent harm on others once they got out.

(24:17):
They went to an institution where violence was a constant
eat or be eaten, where they were being abused, being
forced to abuse others, or both. And Mount meg they
teach you how to be a better thief, a better killer,
or better rapists. Mount means turn gas into murderers. That's

(24:38):
the other Johnny, Johnny body. When I get out of
Mount Meg, I had a killing mentality. If someone did
anything to me, I would have killed you. That's attitude
I left me, And if things had gone just a
little differently, he too could have easily ended up on

(24:58):
death row or serving a life sentence. He told us
about one moment when he was living in Boston where
he could see just how much the violence and abuse
at Mountain Meg's had affected him. I was in Boston,
you know, and I went into this store. So I
went into the dress room with this big baggy pair
of pans on and I put about three or four

(25:18):
pay onto the baggy pair and thee and I attempted
to walk out. So when I walked out the door
and alarm went off. And so when the alarm went off,
I started winning, and this white guys started chasing me.
The white guy had to call me. I would have
killed him. Johnny told us that almost all of his

(25:39):
friends for Mountain Meg's are now either dead or in prison.
Jenny's former crush, the Boy on the Tractor, is currently
on death row in Alabama. In the almost forty years
he's been locked up, Johnny Mack has encountered dozens of
former Mount Meg's kids within the prison walls. Everybody that

(26:01):
was in Mountain Bay's with me. Yeah, the kid death
Row is filmot state. When the old guy in COMMANI
didn't rape somebody and didn't accute the least one you
fet the behavior came home weird. I keep thinking about something,
Superintendent EB Holloway said in nineteen seventy, right before he retired.

(26:27):
This was three months after a federal court ordered Mount
Meg's to implement reforms, and just one day after US
Attorney Ira Dement told a local paper that he was
considering prosecuting Holloway for child abuse. Holloway said that when
he came to work at Mount Meg's twenty three years before,
they didn't send him to teachers, of therapists or social

(26:49):
workers to learn about child welfare. Instead, he said, they
sent me to Kilby. Kilby, by the Way, is one
of the worst adult prisons in Alabama. Holloway continued, I
had to do what they wanted done. If I hadn't,
I wouldn't have been here twenty three years. The question

(27:12):
they always asked was how many bales of cotton have
you made? And never how many children have you helped.
It's tempting to think of Mount Meg's as the failure
of cruel individuals. Holloway Fiddy Matthews and countless others. But
the truth is that the failure was much bigger than that.

(27:34):
It's the thing Robert Kennedy was talking about the violence
of institutions, institutions that not only inflicted violence, but instilled it.
Why would the conditions of these institutions make a first
class criminal because one is influenced by his environment. That

(27:55):
second voice is Ira Dement, the lawyer turned prosecutor turned
judge who represented Denny and the kids from Mount Meg's
in the nineteen sixty nine lawsuit. Ira died in two
thousand and eight, but he was also deposed in the
mid nineteen nineties for Jesse James Andrews appeal. Do you think,
based on your knowledge of the superio institutions, that someone

(28:18):
subjected to those conditions can be influenced in absolutely? Totally.
You know. I'll give you a perfect example. I have
one hundred and ten pound rott Willer. He's a gentle job.
You could take the same dog being a puppy and
turn him into a ferocious, vicious dog. So I am

(28:39):
totally sold on the proposition how you trade someone greatly
influences his or her behavior. My friend Rachel said something
similar that people who go on to inflict some of
the worst harms almost always had serious trauma in their childhoods.
You may remember her from episode one. She and I

(29:01):
went to law school together, and now she lives in Montgomery,
where she's worked with both people serving life sentences for
crimes they committed as juveniles and people on death Row.
Early on, I called her to talk about Mount Meg's
I asked her about her clients, many of whom have
been accused of committing serious violent harm. How often is

(29:22):
that they experienced childhood trauma? Would you say in your experience?
I mean, it sounds too neat, but every single time, absolutely,
one for one. I sort of end up looking at
people the arc of people's lives retrospectively and kind of

(29:43):
studying and coming to understand how they ended up on
a place like death Row, how they ended up sort
of being the most cast off of all people in
our society. And so, you know, I noticed a lot
of patterns, and one of them is this contact with
the juvenile justice system. And Rachel said something I hadn't
really thought about, that many of the kids at Mount

(30:05):
Meg must have felt betrayed. I think every single one
of my clients was arrested as a juvenile, has some
deep wound that they're nursing about the way that they
feel misled or they felt attacked, where they felt abandoned
by the law and by fingers of authority, And that
is just something that I can't imagine them ever really

(30:27):
forgetting or recovering from. But I also just see how
that level of the trail could just sort of completely
realign your understanding the world. I now know in my
heart that nobody does something violent or abusive unless it
is something that has been shown to them or that
they've been subjected to. Whatever they've been accused of or

(30:49):
whatever they've perpetuated is an expression of something that they've
made through. Some of the tragedy of Mount Meg's is scientific.
We know a lot more now about how abuse affects
the brain and the harmful effect of trauma on children.
We know that our brains aren't fully developed until our
mid twenties. We know about the negative impact exposure to

(31:12):
violence can have on young kids. The kids who were
sent to Mount Megs were victimized by the institution, but
they weren't the only victims. Preston and Patrese and Ronald
were also victims of Mount Megs. The pregnant woman Johnny
mac Shot was a victim of Mount Megs. And it's

(31:33):
not just them, but their families and their loved ones
who paid the price for the harm that the school inflicted.
In other words, Mount Meg's harmed more than just the kids.
It harmed those who those kids went on to hurt.
So much lost time, so much grief, so much unrealized

(31:56):
love and joy. When I started researching Mount Megs, I
told an acquaintance about the institution and what it did
to children. He shrugged, looked, unfhazed. It's hard to control
violent kids. He told me. They were violent kids, weren't they?
Why else would they have been there to begin with.

(32:19):
His argument was that Mount Meg's didn't shape these kids,
They shaped Mount Meg's. I thought about that conversation when
I found this document from the nineteen fifties about a
report that J. R. Wingfield, the former superintendent, sent to
the governor. In it, he said that lots of the

(32:40):
kids at Mount Meg's were there for laziness and loitering.
The people we've talked to went in for similar things,
things like truancy or being out past curfew or petty
theft or running away. Many went in for the crime
of having no parents and nowhere else to go. Jesse
James Andrews went in for joy riding. Look, even if

(33:05):
these kids had shown some inclination for violence, even if
they had committed very serious crimes, Mount Meg's would still
have been a terrible place to send them. What all
kids need is guidance, safety and help. No child or
person is rehabilitated by being stuck in a factory of abuse.

(33:29):
These kids weren't monsters. They were shaped by what they endured,
what they were forced to see, and that's what makes
the history of this institution even more devastating. In the
next episode, the last of this series, we're going to
look at how former students like Johnny mac still cope

(33:50):
with their experience and what's become of Mount Meg's today. Unreformed,
The Story of the Alabama Industrial School for Negro Children
is a production of School of Humans and iHeartMedia. This
episode was written by me Josie Deffie, Rice and Taylor
von Laslie. Our scoop supervisors Florence Burrow Adams, and our
producer is Gabby Watts, who had additional writing and production

(34:13):
support from Sherry Scott. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Elsie Crowley,
Brandon Barr, Mett Arnette, and me. Sound design and mix
is by Jesse Niswanger. Music is by Ben Soli. Additional
recordings are courtesy of the Alabama Center for Traditional Culture.
Special things to the Alabama Department of Archives and History,
Michael Harriet, Floyd Hall, Kevin Nutt, Van Newkirk, and all
of the survivors of Mount Meg's willing to share their stories.

(34:36):
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating
and review wherever you get your podcasts. If you are
someone you know attended Mount Megs and would like to
be in contact, please email mountmes podcast at gmail dot com.
That's mt M e i g S Podcast at gmail
dot com. School of Humans