August 11, 2023 • 51 mins
Welcome to the Taylor Scouting Podcast on the Up On Game Network! Today's guest is Tom Luginbill and he currently is an outstanding ESPN and ABC college football announcer and analyst. You’ll see him on Saturdays on the sidelines of some of the biggest games in college football. Tom is also an integral part of the nation’s top “scouting service” UCReport.
Tom is also the son of Al Luginbill a long-time and successful coach and an innovator in the recruiting and evaluating world. Listen as Tom talks keys to your success, NIL, Transfer Portal, Camps, and is long arms are more important than strength or speed?
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Welcome to Taylor Scouting a new podcast presented by UP ON GAME PRESENTS. Coach Randy Taylor will give you the best analysis from his 40 years plus in the football scouting world each week. His insight not only helps the players on the field, but it will also provide parents with the education they need for their children to succeed.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to up on Gaine Presents Taylor Scouting. Coach Randy
Taylor is bringing his forty plus years of knowledge to you.
This is Taylor Scouting and now here's coach Randy Taylor.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Taylor Scouting Podcast on the up On
Game Network. LeVar Arrington owns this or runs this and
does a great job, and he's brought me in to
do these podcasts on the up On Game Network and
so it's kind of fun to work with LeVar. Be
(00:40):
sure to subscribe to the up on Game Network and
watch us on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get
your podcasts, and then on YouTube on the up On
Game Presents Taylor Scouting Channel. And so we're going to
educate you and we're gonna share some story worries about
(01:00):
college football, recruiting and football in general. And I'm really
fired up to have Tom Lougan Bill today. We're going
to talk about all things college football and football in general.
Tom is an outstanding ESPN and ABC college football announcer
(01:22):
and analyst. You can see him on Saturdays on the
sidelines of some of the biggest games in college football.
He's also an integral part of the nation's top scouting
service UC Report, which we'll talk about. And one of
my favorite guys is his dad. I've known for a
long time, Al Luganbille, longtime successful coach and an innovator
(01:46):
in my opinion, in the recruiting and evaluating world. So,
coach Lougan Bill, tell us about your family briefly.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I've my parents are doing really really well, both healthy,
seventy six and seventy five, living in Arizona. I've got
a twin sister who also lives in Arizona. Unfortunately, me
my travels as unl being in the coaching profession and
scouting profession, you don't often get to just live where
you want for an extended period of time, to bounce
(02:17):
around a lot of my travels and taking me to
the South East and to the Midwest, so on and
so forth, so I don't get to see him as often.
But I will say I was really fortunate to grow
up in this profession, and I was also fortunate that
my dad at the time had been in some really
(02:37):
good situations where the level of success allowed for us
not to have to move around, not to have to
bounce around, and so I really grew up in two
places in Tempe, Arizona in southern California, and had a
great upbringing, and have been running around in a locker
room since I could since I could walk, and you know,
(02:59):
going to training camp and sitting in in the coach's
offices and kind of just taking it all in if
you will. So I've been. I've had two really fortunate
things happen in my career, which I think are rare
and if you have the opportunity to do them, you
should do them. As I got to coach for my dad,
and then years down the road my dad actually worked
(03:20):
for me. And to have that working experience and that
back and forth and all those sorts of things, it
was was really special, you know, and I'm glad I
got to do that.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
In my mind. You've been a part of the evolution
of the modern scouting and evaluating business in college football.
Talk about Scouts Inc. And the you and you see report.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Well, I'll tell you so the Scouts Inc. Side of it.
I actually got involved with them in between when the
two thousand and one ex Fell season folded and then
I went to work for the Dallas Cowboys in both
a scouting capacity, and then I was also heading up
and coaching Jerry Jones's Arena Football League team at that time.
(04:11):
And one of the what scout Zinc Was at that
time was and there's Blessed Stow and National and there's
all these different you know, scouting services in professional football,
and we were essentially in that world. But what we
also had is we had contracts with media outlets, whether
(04:32):
it was CNNSI, whether it was the Sporting News, both
written publication and and then eventually what grew into online
and digital as we know it now, and then certainly
linear television. And we kind of I always called us
like the third opinion, Right, you have your coaches in house,
your scouting department in house, and then we would have
(04:54):
information farmed out to us just for another set of eyeballs.
It doesn't have a voice, doesn't have a horse in
the stable. We're looking at it purely objectively, and then
we would provide the objective feedback and then the you know,
the the programs or at that time it was at
the NFL level, you know, the the teams would make
(05:15):
their own decisions, right, but it's just like anything else,
you're trying to avoid making that mistake, right. You know,
a lot of people don't realize in the National Football
League in the first round, they all get one pick
in the first round, and they missed on it fifty
percent of the time. And that's with having all of
the available information. So what we ended up kind of
doing is we we kind of took what I would
(05:36):
call a pro personnel model in a private entity, and
that's what we started applying to high school football recruiting.
You know, you coached at a time, and my father
coached at a time and I'm a little bit past
it where all the coaches doing the recruiting and the
gas were doing the recruiting, and there was no scouting department,
(05:57):
there was no player personnel department. There was even a
director of player of personnel. It wasn't run quite like that.
And I think that's where where Nick Saban probably deserves
a lot of the credit of taking. Going back to
Michigan State, then of course l issue taking that pro
personnel model and instituting it, not just the principles of
(06:19):
it and the how and the why, but having to
build the manpower to be able to do it. I mean,
you're asking for a lot of resources that never really
existed before, and so we kind of took that model
and applied it to what we were doing at ESPN
because I was never in and had no intention or
want to be involved in the internet website recruiting side
(06:41):
of things. It's a great sub based model. They do
really really well. I just I have no interest in saying, Hey,
where is so and so taking his five visits to
and is so and so narrowed his choices down to
ten schools. I don't care like that. None of that
matters to me. I want to know, you know, what
are the strengths, what are the weaknesses, Where are the
pit what are the areas that need to be addressed?
(07:02):
What should be worried about? Red flags? Where does he
project in all of those sort of things. So that's
kind of the approach that we started with at ESPN
in two thousand and six. So, you know, fast forward
to now and the UC report really became. It was
it was born off of conversations that as I went
(07:24):
on the road, this would have probably been around I
don't know, twenty thirteen fourteen, somewhere around I'd go on
the road, and whether it be in the spring or
be in the fall when I'm doing games and just
talking to various programs and asking this kind of one
cent question, what is your biggest challenge in recruiting right now?
And almost to a program, it didn't matter if it
(07:45):
was Alabama, who's got great resources, all the way down
to a group of five school, it was we can't
keep up. We're not staffed to identify an eighth grader,
a freshman, even a sophomore. We're worried about the current
class and then trying to identify and work on the
next class. And again this was several years ago. So
what we did at the time, and this is specific
(08:06):
to u S report, we thought, well, what if we
had a way of doing all of that work in advance,
meaning if we could do what the NCAA does not
allow college coaches to do, which is actually be on
site it a camp or a combine, right, gather all
that information, have fresh eyes in person, right, and then
(08:28):
somehow house it in a one stop shopping type of
scenario like I wonder, I wonder how that would how
that would go over? And so at the time we
had and still do you know, we put together the
under arm All American Game IDESPN and so we have
exclusive rights to the camp and combine circuit, meaning that
(08:52):
that information and all of the video that comes from
it and how the cancer actually operated is run by
is run by us. Then we went out and we
did the same thing, and we gathered the information from
the Elite eleven. We had only exclusive rights to that.
And essentially what we did is we put together this
profile that when you register for one of those camps,
(09:14):
you have to fill it out, all right, and it
is unbelievably detailed. So we started gathering a lot of
information and I'm talking Randy, information that goes down to
the eighth grade guidance counselor, to the you know, the
the vice principal at the high school, the athletic trainers,
all of that stuff, contact information, everything you can possibly
(09:35):
imagine that you would need. All right, what do you
see in you see me stands for underclassmen? Is We
went out and we were more in the identification phase, Randy,
not so much the evaluation phrase meaning that we're gonna
watch the tape, we're going to apply a grade, we're
going to write a report, We're gonna have all the
video there for you, We're gonna have all the information
(09:57):
that you're gonna need here it is right now, you're
gonna make your own evaluation, right, So we're just giving
We're giving our feedback based off of what we see
when we first see these guys. So what happens is,
let's just say a player decides to go to a
camp and he's in our middle school circuit right, Well,
when he arrives at that thing, we do hand size,
(10:18):
arm length, wingspan, height weight, We do the one ten split,
the forty, the short shuttle, the three cone l drill,
all of the testing things that you can possibly imagine,
and it's all laser time, there's no hand held stuff.
And then we put them through actually football specific drills.
We tape in video every single rep that a prospect
(10:41):
has okay at that camp, the good, bad, and the ugly,
all of it. We then cut all that up. So
let's just say that player shows up in eighth grade,
and then he shows up again in ninth grade, and
then he goes to other camp in tenth grade. We
now have a library of three years on that kid
before he's ever even entered into his sophomore junior year
that we can now have as part of the product.
(11:04):
To sell to the schools who may not be able
to dive that deep right now. So it's kind of
like we're doing all the work here. It is. You
figure out what you want to do with it, you
make your own opinion of it, but owning the exclusive
rights to the video. Like if I were to tell you,
I'm a coach and I can't NCAA rules preclude me
from going out to an E lead eleven camp or
(11:26):
an under armoured camp or anything off campus to evaluate.
And what we're doing is we're taking quarterback a and
he's gone to three camps over four years, and we
have sixty reps of him on HD video going through
a variety of drills, a variety of different things, plus
all of the information we've gathered along the way. So
(11:48):
we're kind of taking the legwork out of it. Even
though the programs are still doing it. They're attacking it,
and there are a variety of different guidance services around there.
What we were able to do is kind of put
it all in one spot. You can build your board
through U see report if you want to. We developed
what we call max speed so we could do a
mile per hour algorithm on players on tape, which has
(12:10):
become a hugely popular deal. And so that's kind of
I know that was a long winded way of going
about it, but it was really kind of just born
of coach what we found out were the challenges for
coaches in today's game of football.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Coach, how what would you say, we get people that
watch this and want to learn how to do this
or get into this business. What makes you or what
do you think makes a good evaluator?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I think that you've got to be You've got
to be very very careful getting too enamored with physical measurables.
I know that we all have an ideal set of
standards that we want in things of that nature. And
you know, for example, at the quarterback position. You know,
back when I was coming out, that was the early nineties,
six foot quarterbacks were getting recruited to play power five football.
(12:57):
Well they're all over the place now, right. So I
think I would say two things really come to mind
that I felt like I learned at a young age.
Number One, does the does the prospect? And I think
this is true at any level. Does the prospect love football?
And I'm not talking about on Saturdays. I'm talking about
love football to the point that he's going to do
(13:19):
all of the other things that it's going to require
for a player with great ability to actually play like one.
All Right, I think that's very, very important. And then
I'm a huge believer in productivity. How good of a
football player are you? Do you produce? I think Zach
Thomas is a great, great, great example of this. He's
(13:40):
five to eleven, he's two hundred and thirty pounds coming out
of Texas Tech. And you and you would look at him,
and if you just went off of the measurables, you
wouldn't take him. And you start watching the tape and
all the guy does is find the football and make tackles.
That's all he does, the tackling machine. But he wasn't
six ' three, he wasn't too fifty five. So I
(14:01):
think sometimes we allow production to maybe overlap something that
can be measured. And then I also I also think
we do the exact opposite. I think we allow measurable
standard athletic traits wow moments to cloud our judgment on
(14:25):
consistent productivity. And I'm not don't want point any fingers here,
but like, look, I look at and I still can't
believe he was a top five pick. I still cannot
believe Anthony Richardson was a top five pick. I know
athletically he's a top five pick. How can you be
that talented and complete fifty three percent of your passes?
I and didn't play a lot? Was it battled injury
(14:48):
and wasn't overly productive like that concerns me and I
would say the same thing about about Will Levis a
Kentucky turn the ball over a lot, injured a lot,
but very physically gifted. I get that, and I understand
at the National Football League level there in their mindset
is well, if we're gonna miss, let's at least miss
on a talented guy, let's not take a reach on
a guy that we're not convinced is'talented enough to do it.
(15:11):
But I think those two things is does a player
love football and all of the things that go with it,
and making sure you don't allow something to drump how
productive the football player is.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You think coaches believe they can coach a kid better
than where he is today, and that's part of the
problem that they'll be.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Ego. Ego is definitely a part of the problem. I
don't think there's any question about that. And and you
know it's all mentally well, when he gets in our
building and in our culture, we'll we'll, we'll fix them. Okay,
And sometimes that may be true. I think, in all
fairness to what I just outlined with you, there was
a ton of question about Josh Allen. Right. He was,
(15:55):
he was supremely talented, injured quite a bit, had a
high turnover rate, and he's gone the other way, and
you know he and so I think that's what people
are looking at when they see Will Levice talent wise
or Anthony Richard Tall Richardson talent wise. But then you
have a guy like to me, you have a guy
that was at Washington and Fresno State and Jake Hayner
(16:18):
that was unbelievably productive, I mean ridiculously productive, and he
slips and that goes to a great situation in New
Orleans and you and you and kind of say, okay,
I can I can kind of see that one. And
but yeah, I think ego gets involved. How can how
can it not?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Those guys are making millions upon millions of dollars, have
done this for a long time, and uh, and you
do you do see that mentality.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I think, do you see more changes or what are
the changes you see in scouting that that are coming
anything that there's so much technology and.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, I think, you know, from a scouting perspective, I
don't know how much like what more we can do
in terms of now there's always going to be science
involved in the science side of it has really come
into the training part of the athlete, you know, and
(17:19):
then the strength conditioning world has vastly changed, and you've got
the catapult systems and they know when to pull back
and they can you know, they can measure whether somebody's
playing hard or not. That part of it, by the way,
I love that part of it. You go into some
of these programs and before practice they have a list
of who was given the most effort the day before
and a list below the line who wasn't. I mean,
(17:39):
that's what a verifiable, measurable data point that a player
can't argue with. So from a coaching perspective, that's does great.
I do think from a scouting perspective, we will continue
to evolve, and I think one thing that has slightly
changed is I hear from more and more coaches and
scouts that there interested in the one ten of the
(18:01):
forty than they are the forty. And they're also more
interested in the three conel drill. You probably wouldn't Nobody
probably would have said that thirty years ago. And you know,
the forty is this big, this this huge measuring stick.
So I think I think that has shifted to some degree,
and I do, and I really believe this. I think
the people in scouting that are scouting who they're getting
(18:25):
is a guy that are putting a lot of stock
in that although are the ones eventually over the course
of time that will have fewer misses because you've been
in this way longer than I have. And I tell
people when they asked me about, well, why didn't this
guy make it? Why didn't that guy make it? Ninety
nine percent of the time, it has nothing to do
with physical attributes. It's something else. There's there's something that
(18:47):
you either identified in the evaluation process and you thought
you could deal with it and it backfired on you,
or it's something you didn't know about and then once
you get the guy, you're stuck with it. So you know,
something as simple as being away from home the first time,
being accountable for your own time. Do you show up
to meetings routinely late? Do you miss treatment? Are you
not in study hall when you're supposed to be? Who
(19:10):
are you hanging around with? Can you handle being yelled at?
Being coached hard? How do you deal with support staff people?
Are you rude? Do you say please and thank you?
I mean, these are all a little simple like little things.
But what they also do, in my opinion, is there
a great indicator of what kind of human being you're getting.
You know, is the guy constantly in the weight room
(19:31):
or is a guy miss in the weight room? Like
all of these different things have absolutely nothing to do
with how physically talented a guy is. And so when
when those guys can't handle that side of it, they
kind of weed themselves weed themselves out. So I do
think there's been more of a push now to really
really hit that side of it super super hard. And
(19:53):
I think with the transfer portal to Randy, you your
relationship in recruiting. If a guy spurns you at the
high school level, don't burn any bridges with that kid.
You don't know what may happen, and the re recruitment
may start over and you might have a spot. And
I would say the same thing to the kid. You know,
I don't like when kids go on TV and they
(20:14):
play games with the hat thing and they you know,
you're showing a level of disrespect to a staff and
multiple coaches that have put a lot of time and energy.
Just thank them and say, hey, this is the place
for me. I don't think we need to play those
games because I know they're young people and they don't
think that thing through. But there may be a coach
somewhere that in the evaluation process goes you know what,
(20:35):
the kid was a real turd when when he decided
to go somewhere else, I think we should stay away
from him. And you don't want for the kids. You
don't want him to miss opportunities because of that type
of conduct.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
The other part of this, and we'll talk a little
bit more about transfers, but the NIL is a huge
factor in recruiting. How is this or will this affect
college football?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Is?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Well, well, go let's start there and then we'll talk.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Okay, Well, I think anybody with half a brain knew
that when you dumped this on the LAPS, a very
program in America, that this was going to seep into recruiting,
and there was no way it wasn't going to If
somebody was that naive when they're putting all this stuff together, Wow,
that really would surprise me. And that's what's led to
(21:22):
what is essentially pay for play right now. And you know,
and everybody's talking about name image and likeness and the
transfer portal and all of this stuff creating more parody.
It's not creating more parody. It's widening the gap. You're
never going to have Alabama's resources ninety nine percent of
the programs that no programs are created equal. So if
I'm in recruiting and I'm dealing with a different deck
(21:43):
of cards, and I want to go out and we
want to buy the best players right then, how is
anybody supposed to close the gap. So I think that
part of it is dangerous. And I also think what
it will lead to is a bunch of players committing
for all the wrong reasons, making a lot of mistakes,
and then next thing, you know, that doesn't pan out,
(22:04):
and then the transfer portal hits. So and the issue
with name image and likeness, Randy, is because they're not employees,
you can't you can't put performance standards in the contracts.
So essentially you're saying, I'm gonna pay you, but you
don't have to be a starter, you don't have to
be productive. You're not all conference, you're not all American. Now,
if you're gonna sit there and tell me, all right, well,
(22:24):
who's who's worth it? Well? Bryce Young earned every penny,
every penny of his name, image and likeness. Why because
he produced? What does production do provides value? Caleb Williams,
by all means, go get all of them, right, c J. Stroud,
get as much as you can. The guys that go
out and earn it. I'm cool with. I think my
(22:45):
biggest issue is we're this is there's no two way
streak here, and like if you're if you're Dabbos Sweeney
at Clemson, who who's more disappointed in dj U Jungle,
Dr Pepper or you? Right? And so that you know,
(23:05):
I just think that we're we I think you can
make a fair argument this is the most transformative legislation
and intercleavedend athletics over the last forty years, and especially
one that this large, this bast has so many unanswered questions,
and it was dumped on the lapse of everybody with
no blueprint on how to execute it. All right, Well,
if we're going to execute it a certain way, how
(23:27):
are we going to police it? And then if we're
going to please it, how are we going to enforce it?
And we have none of it. We have none of
that now, And and that's concerning to me. I think
the other thing too, And again, this whole discussion of
recruiting nil transfer portal, it's not going away until we
figure out a way to put in some guidelines, put
(23:47):
in some guardrails, put in some some rules and enforcement
and this and that that doesn't end up being in
court because the players are going to push back and
they're going to say, well, you're restricting my ability to
earn that's that's the anti trust. Well, then the way
you do this is you're gonna have to go away
from the scholarship model. You're gonna have to collectively bargain, right,
I mean, it's really kind of the only way that
we that we stay out of court in all of this.
(24:10):
And for me, I think my biggest concern is there
has to be give and take. I know the players
want everything and the coaches want there to be some
structure and some rules and then they want to be
able to do their their deal. But I compare it
to the NFL rookie contract. Right, So you've got an
NFL rookie contract, it's four years, it's pretty ironclad. You
have established ceilings, established floors, right, and you're gonna play
(24:32):
that contract if you are. If you are a rookie
in the NFL and you've been drafted and you go
out and you make the Pro Bowl as a rookie,
you don't just get to go be a free agent
and be on the open market. In college football, that's
exactly what you can do. There's no there's no there's
no cap, there, there are no rules to your movement.
You can take the money and run. And like the
(24:55):
NFL would never allow that, right because they've come together,
they've come to agreement in the in the midd and
that's what we're lacking right now in terms of this
is input and structure on the player side, and then
input in structure on the university side.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Do you think we'll get to signing contracts? I mean,
is that? And now I do know this and I
believe this the recent change and only allowing one transfer
with immediate eligibility, I think that's that's really helped the system,
(25:28):
And how do you think that's going to be the
Is that kind of the saving grace in many ways potentially?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Now is that applying to guys with their degrees too,
or just without a degree?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Without a degree, so that's.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, that's the other problem though, is okay without the degree,
but the ones who've gotten a degree, like a JT. Daniels, Well,
now there, it's the way these kids early enroll and
they're in summer school. They can graduate in two and
a half years. Well, if you got your degree, heck
you can transfer three or four time. I'd still be eligible.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, I'd have to actually I better before I say that.
I'd have to re reread that. But I do think
that the only being able to transfer the one time
and play immediately is a really good thing. So that
that next time you want to do it, there is
(26:23):
you're going to have to sit and lose that.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, there's a deterrent. Yeah, there's a deterrent of some
sort because right now, and I'm not to get off
my long guy on this thing, I'm really not, but
we were making everything so easy. If things don't go
your way, and I had a speech to I was
talking for about fifteen minutes to about fifty of the
(26:46):
top prospects that were underclassmen in the country this past
summer at our at our Future fifty events, and a
snippet of it was put on the internet and somewhat
taken out of context because the previous portion of what
I was speaking of was tied into what I'm going
to get in andto. Here is the one thing that
I know is a constant, and it's a common denominator
(27:08):
amongst coaches. They don't want kids that are uncoachable and
non competitors. They just don't. That's not what they're interested in.
And what's happened is with the transfer portal. This is
where I get worried. Is a player, is a great
player coming out of high school. Everybody's recruited him, right,
everybody's patting him on the back zone, how good it is,
how good he is. Then he arrives on campus all right, now,
(27:30):
all of a sudden, he's one of a bunch of
guys that were all him right when they were in
high school, and that coach that was loving him up
is all of a sudden screaming and yelling at him,
and the de recruitment phase starts and you're bombarded with
responsibility and accountability for your time, and you're away from
home and there's a lot going on right and depending
(27:51):
on the level of maturity the player, a lot of
them can't handle that or they don't have the ability
to battle through that and to compete and be adverse.
And I'm not just talking about compete competing athletically, I'm
talking about competing mentallygue because it's hard. I mean, that's
a big jump and guys who who've taken it will
will tell you that. And my issue is we have
so many guys in the transfer portal that haven't been
(28:13):
on campus for two years because their first inclination is
when things don't go my way, I'm going to take
my ball and go home. And that's not everybody, but
there's a lot of guys like that. And you look
at the numbers, and there's been twenty five hundred and
three thousand, you know, people in transfer portal. Go back
and look at what they're graduating year class was, it'll
(28:33):
be like twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty.
They haven't they haven't battled and I think and listen,
I'm four player freedoms, but we don't ask them to
have to fight and compete like they're going to have
to as a grown adult when they enter the professional world. Right.
I mean, that's that's something that I think is a
(28:57):
slippery slope. Other other transfer scenarios, I was in a
trans scenario where I was the starting quarterback. I actually
had beaten out another player that I knew was the
starting quarterback the year before I got there, So I
knew when I transferred there, I was gonna have to
beat out a guy that started the year before. We
have a coaching change. They go to more of a
(29:18):
quarterback run based type of scheme, and he was a
much better athlete than I was. Okay, I had a
red shirt year. I could have transferred to another power
of school, just sat out, still had a year of eligibility.
I just didn't want to do that. I wanted to
I wanted to play right away. I didn't have any
interest in doing that, so I transferred down to Eastern Kentucky. Right.
So there are different reasons like why a person transfer.
(29:38):
I wasn't recruited out of high school. I had to
go to junior college improve myself, which I did ended
up doing well enough to earn multiple Power five scholarship
offers two years later, so I kind of had to
earn it. I had to go. I had to go
make it happy. And I think we've taken that away
a little bit with the younger player, that if sometimes
(30:01):
maybe they just need a coach to pull him over
the side or somebody to say, hey, listen, man, hang
in there. I don't know if you ever seen that
Tubby Tubby Smith quote about his dad when he wanted
to he wanted to. It was he was mentioned he
was talking about this same subject that we're talking about.
He was talking about the transfer portal with basketball, and
he had called his dad and said, I I want
(30:21):
to come home. I want to leave. He goes, You're
not coming home. Your your room's been rented out. You
have two choices. You can stay there, you can go
to the army and and then you know, Tubby goes
on to say that in his particular situation, he was
glad he didn't leave right And I and I think
that's the other thing too, with the transfer portal, Randy,
nobody's doing the math. There aren't enough scholarships for everybody.
(30:42):
So you think you're going in there and all of
this is going to start over again. Unless you've been
tampered with, there may not be a landing spot. And
you better be careful when you make that choice, and
be careful who you're listening to. Are you listening to
the right people? And then do they have that your
best interest in mind? And have you really thought it
through and realized what you be getting into if you
(31:05):
choose to make this move. And I just think those
are all things that we're still navigating our way through.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, these are young kids making adult decisions before they're
ready to make them. And you see that all time.
And I think the NCAA has a tendency to pass
a rule and then it takes them about two years
to figure out that, oh, we need to fix it,
and then they fix it and hopefully get it right.
(31:34):
So that's kind of how I see them. Let's go
back to talking about players and the evaluating side of
it and get off the politics a little bit. Sorry
I brought that up. That was my bad.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Well it's okay, literally my profession, I mean, it's a
topic of conversation. I'm just about everything you can't avoid
it now, it's just chin the whole landscape of the game.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, and I think you've made some great points that
people are going to take away and use to make
decisions or in their futures. So talk about the players.
The game has changed quite a bit in evaluating and recruiting.
When and how did length become so important?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think length became so important because and I have
just a tremendous amount of respect for really successful fcs
and group of five level coaches because they're having to
make so much more of a projection right and they're
not necessarily getting to come right in play right away,
(32:39):
may not need a red shirt. They're getting the guy
that they're having to say in their mind, Okay, I
think this guy, he'll be able to He'll be able
to carry another forty pounds, all right, he's got super
long arms. He doesn't look like much. Now, get him
on campus, feed him, get him in the weight room,
red shirt him. Maybe he doesn't play much as a
red shirt freshman, and all the sudden it is a retrosphomore.
(33:01):
The guy's a completely different dude. And I just think
length and speed have somehow kind of come together and
and with I mentioned the FCS programs and the G
five schools, and some of those those are the guys
that they're targeting. And it's one of the reasons why
you see, you know, like Layton Vanderesch the defensive end
(33:23):
for the Cowboys, it was at Boise. He's a prime.
He was one of those guys. A lot of the
guys we've seen at tight end and at defensive end
that have come through Iowa, they were those types of guys, right,
And I just think you have far more late bloomers
than you have ready made guys. You know, everybody always
focuses on the four and the five star guy, but
there's one hundred and thirty thirty some odd schools and
(33:46):
eighty five guys on the scholarship and then you've got
walk ons. Well, they ain't all four stars and they
and they're not all developing at a rapid rate where
they're just jumping up. So I think that the speed
in the length side be because the game has become
such a space game and you have to be able
to cover real estate. Right. And when I say that
(34:10):
something is big a deal is wingspan right cuts down
on real estate, It cuts down on space. It cuts
down on windows, all of those sorts of things, the ability,
the ability to off of the first step edge. If
you're a six to six kid and have that first step,
all of a sudden you're two and a half three
yards in the back field on one step, You've just
(34:30):
covered real estate. I mean, I think that that part
of it, and the fact that more and more late
bloomers that are tall and have length become really really
good players. It just happens later on.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
So are long arms more important than strength and speed
or speed?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I uh, I would say strength maybe, because that's something
you continually can add. I don't know if you ever
are gonna to me. I remember some of those Jimmy
Johnson early Miami teams, and I remember you know some
of those in UCLA and been some of these places.
(35:10):
I think there was a real push in that late
eighties early nineties where it was like speed's gonna trump size,
and if you can run, you can play. If you
can run, we want you. I remember Irban Meyer when
he was at Florida in the early days, in their
team staff meeting meeting room, they had a big sign
on the top of the wall that said recruit the
(35:30):
fastest team in America. Didn't say recruit the biggest, strongest
or longest, recruit the fastest team in America. I just
think that the length side of it, combined with the
speed now because of the space in the field that's
being attacked, has probably just gone up a few notches
and level of importance.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So as that evaluator, that's where you were talking about earlier,
about some of the other intangibles that the instincts and
the wand and all of those other things kind of
has to be evaluated to be sure that the length
and the speed are valuable.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think one of
the biggest challenges in today's day and age of recruiting
and evaluating quarterbacks is what do they actually know about
the game? Right, Because we've gone from not that long
ago where you had to beg your coach to be
in the shotgun. Now you don't ever even see guys
(36:32):
under center rarely. Right. We went from check with me,
and we went from changing things at the snap and
operating things and being responsible for protections to sitting back,
lifting your leg and clapping and throwing a bubble screen, right,
or you know, cutting the field in half and just
doing you know, half field wreaths, which is fine, and
it's revolutionized the spread offense is revolutionized so many different things.
(36:55):
But at the same time, I think oftentimes when you
get these kids up on the board, they may not
they may be really talented and couldn't tell you what
a one technique is or couldn't you know, couldn't tell
you how you know, will safety pressure from the boundary?
Where are they vulnerable? And they probably maybe they can't
tell you. I go to Canton combines for the last
(37:17):
eighteen years and I see guys with fifteen offers, and
if you ask them to take a five step drop
and throw a twelve to attend a twelve yard speed
cut out, they can't do it. There's no footwork there,
there's no nothing. So I just think there's more to
examine now, And I think, you know what, I think
Andy Reid in the NFL is a great example of this.
He born out of the West Coast offense womb his
(37:41):
entire career, and they got that dude wearing number fifteen,
and I think he kind of started realizing then, maybe
it was before that, that these quarterbacks aren't being trained
and groomed the way they used to be. They're not
coming into our league prepared to have this much verbiage
in a play call or or you know, to have
to have all of these different things going on. So
(38:02):
instead of us trying to stick a square peg into
a round hole, we better start focusing on how they've
been developed and trained and building around their strengths and
trying to mass the weaknesses. And when you watch Kansas
City now rant it they look like a college team,
like they really do, and not everybody has a Patrick Mahomes,
but I do think there has to be Like I
(38:23):
don't think size is anywhere near what it was, and
I don't want to say intended to be, but it
used to be that was just if you weren't this tall,
you weren't playing particularly at the power flat flap, and
it didn't matter how good, how good of a player
you were, right And then you know that's I think
the shotgun spreading people thin, opening up windows to see
(38:46):
the field better, moving the launch point, moving the pocket.
It's really created more opportunities for the undersized player that
wouldn't have had them in the eighties or the nineties
or even maybe the late nineties and like to see
I like to see that part of it because I
still think at the end of the day, quarterback plays
about two things, decision making and accuracy. There are strong arms,
(39:09):
there are average arms. There are quick feet, there are
slow feet. Can you process and do you throw the
ball to the right place? I mean really, I mean
that's why you know I bring up Bryce Young again.
I mean, there's not going to be a single He'll
walk through the door right now, and there would be
a single thing physically that would wow you about it.
But he works at it. I had I had their
(39:33):
offensive coordinator who's now back with the Patriots, Bill O'Brien,
tell us in a Sugar Bowl meeting this last year
when they beat Kin said he's the best quarterback I've
ever coached. You know who he's coached, right, And so
so he said, he goes when all those things we
were talking about that have nothing to do with physical ability,
(39:54):
he said, he's got all of that in droves. He goes.
And so what happens is is you become less and
less worried about him being five to eleven six and
eighty five pounds because all of that other stuff that
you can't coach matters so much, right, And I think
that's and that's great because when you have the six
foot guy and you find those things out about him,
(40:16):
you don't worry one lick about recruiting them. You just don't.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, the the uh, let's switch gears real quick here.
There are some new rules in the college game that
are designed to shorten the length of the game. I
don't know if you've had a chance to look at these,
but but eliminate consecutive timeouts by a team, Eliminate the
(40:43):
untimed down at the end of the first and third quarter,
kind of like the uh. It's a little bit like
the I guess it's not an NFL thing, but and
then the running clock after first downs, which is the
NFL thing. So what are your feelings about those changes?
How will that impact because you're going to be out
there on the sideline or in the booth. Yeah, how
(41:07):
do you see those help in the game.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Well, it's going to help the pace of play of
the game. And I think from a fan perspective, the games,
it just they're running too long. Three and a half,
three forty five, you know, I broadcasted in the XFL
last spring, and you know, some of their rules are
very very unique, but their clock rules were fantastic. I
mean those games were done in two forty five right,
(41:30):
fifteen minute quarters, all right, but eliminated some of that
you know, that that hidden time. And I think that's
what college football is trying to work towards a little bit.
It may limit some of the plays offensively that you
have an opportunity to get in just because you know
there there's you're going to have more time ticking off
the clock. I like it. I just I think it's
(41:52):
good that we have fewer stoppages. And I think the
next thing that I that needs to happen in college football.
We've got to stop we've viewing every single play. We
got to stop pressing that button down unless something's glaring.
We got we got to play football, let's go. And
that in and of itself would change so much about
the pace of play in the length of games. And
we're not quite there yet. And I and I listen,
(42:16):
I think you're going to see potentially over the next
couple of years, I think you're going to be potentially
seeing a shift in the kickoff kickoff return game to
make that safer ensure that you still have it as
part of the game, but make it safer. Maybe you're
after kick or extra points, you get more opportunities than
just one or two. And see, you know who's willing
(42:37):
to maybe do that? And and so I don't know,
it's it's I think it's a good thing to sum
it up, I really do.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Is there a way to for the athlete to to
get in the UC report or or how do they
is it by going to the camps or all that?
What's the best way for them to get in front
of your eyes?
Speaker 3 (43:02):
So what we're doing is we're gathering information lists and
lists and lists, it's like you used to do in
the old days, right, and then we're inputting it and
then the evaluation part of it starts. And then we
have two sets of camps. We have essentially an invite
camp which is going to be geared toward and focused
(43:25):
on probably one hundred and eighty five to two hundred
and fifteen kids per camp. But these kids would be
established guys, guys that we know have offers early they
are highly recruitable young players. And then we have more
of an open market combine that's going to get into
the four and five hundred number of kids that are
(43:47):
going to that we don't know enough about yet, that
maybe haven't been identified or recruited. Now we're giving them
same instruction and we're asking to fill out the same
information because that who we're going to start finding guys
from is out of that pool. And what we do
is a qualifier. Sometimes we run those on a weekend.
(44:08):
We'll do the combine and a saturday at the camp
on a Sunday and we'll take let's just say the
top two or three guys in each position that showed
up for the combine, and we'll ask them to come
back the next day and see how they compete against
the other guys. And so it's really just we're just
gathering initially names. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure you
remember college sports data was a big thing for a
(44:31):
long time, right where it's just you're just trying to
get so that you can build your database. And then
we just start. What we're starting to do is we
start to just go based off elimination of what we know,
then what do we need to find out? Who do
we need to go get? Like I when I'm in
the process of doing whatever our our minimums are per
(44:53):
day and per week for each one of our guys
that we're doing it. There's times we're all going try
to watch the tape and he'll have a huddle of camp.
We'll have it in there and it's blank. There's nothing
on it. So we got it. We we got to
go out and get that tape right so that we
can get that guy. That we can get that guy done.
That doesn't happen often, but it does happen. But I
think the other thing too, is, and I say this
(45:14):
to prospects all the time, we are in an era.
They are in an era where if you put in
an ounce of effort, of being proactive, you can make
all your recruiting dreams come come true. If you're moderately
proficient on a computer, if you can send a text,
send an email, send a direct message, you can get
(45:35):
to every program in America in the in the blink
of an eye. Whereas in the old days, I mean, yeah,
to wait for those coaches to come in the spring
that bring in their VHS tapes, coaches dubbing them, you're
taking them back and then you're waiting for foot traffic
in the fall, and you know, you didn't even really
get recruited until the spring of your junior year, if
you were going to get recruited at all. Now these
kids can get seen, they can get viewed, they can
(45:57):
be evaluated, and and I tell them, I'm like, guys,
this is I have a little seminar thing I've put together.
I'm like, this is not rocket science. If you follow
a few you know certain things, and just be a
little bit proactive. And then when you do those sorts
of things and you do come to a combine or
you do come to a camp, everything you've now done
(46:18):
is going out to over I don't know, close to
one hundred and thirty hundred and forty schools. If you
can buy an FCS the Ivy League, we have group
of five and then we have every Power five school
but one and and so they can help them help themselves.
And I'll tell you the other thing too that we
(46:39):
talk about that it's important in player evaluation now more
than ever before. Kids have got to understand that their
social media habits are being studied, what they are putting
on social media is being evaluated. And I think I
always tell them, guys, before you click send, just think
twice because you think you can delete it. It lives
(47:01):
forever on the Internet. And and I know, and I've
been in certain buildings with certain programs that have one
or two guys assigned to do nothing but check all
of the guys they're recruiting and check their social media
and report to the head coach every morning. This is
what Johnny Smith put on there, this is what Bobby
Wells put on there, this is what so and so
put on there, And just don't blow an opportunity through
(47:23):
conduct that's totally preventable, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah, I lived by the the idea that that everything
is evaluated, including parents or relatives or all those different
things that an athlete has in his world is evaluated.
So I think you're that's great advice.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
And Randy, Randy the other thing too. And you've asked
me how recruiting changed, Maybe quite a bit, And I
think I think because of a limited contact that coaches
now have with prospects, getting a kid to come to
your camp where you can physically coach him is more
important now than it has ever been, maybe in the
history of the game, because because of all the in
(48:09):
my opinion, because of all the adulation and all the
praise and the expectation, and you know, these kids oftentimes
can think that they've got it made, and there can
be some entitlement, not with everybody, but it's there. It's
part of the deal. You want to get that kid
on your campus, and you want to get him in
your practice setting, and you want to see what he
does when he's coached hard. You want to see how
(48:30):
he interacts with his peers. You want to see what
his motor is like. You want to get a sense
of how he is in your building with other people
that are around him, and that I have heard more
about that becoming invaluable from coaches across America maybe than
anything else, because if you have that and maybe you
(48:51):
get it once or twice, or a guy comes to
your camp three times, I think that's invaluable.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
No question about it. I have been recommending that for
some time. So so, hey, coach, I really appreciate you
coming on with us. I'm gonna wrap this up for
the folks watching, and you always have great information and
have given us a lot to think about and a
(49:19):
lot to work with. And I think if kids and
parents pay attention to what you've said today on this
they're going to improve their opportunities and the process will
be easier for them. So I really appreciate you doing that.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, I appreciate it too, Coach. I appreciate and having
me make sure you say hello to LeVar for me.
He worked with us with the undarm All America game
for for several years and so it's good to have
him out and around the kids.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
He's his son's good by the way.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Yeah. Yeah, don't forget that that's pretty pretty quality bloodlines.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah, he sure does so. Folks, again, thanks for joining
us on the up on Game Network. Please subscribe to
that rate us, review us. You can find us again
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast wherever you get your
podcasts YouTube, go to up on Game Network and then
(50:17):
up on Game Presents. You can also follow me at
Twitter at our Taylor FB scout. I don't know if
that's Twitter or X anymore, but whatever it is, and
please follow us and you can watch our episodes anytime.
We air on Fridays at nine am, So please check
(50:41):
us out there and glad to see you and glad
to have Tom Lougan bill on and appreciate his time.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Thanks Coach, Thank you, coach,
Welcome to up on Gaine Presents Taylor Scouting. Coach Randy
Taylor is bringing his forty plus years of knowledge to you.
This is Taylor Scouting and now here's coach Randy Taylor.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Taylor Scouting Podcast on the up On
Game Network. LeVar Arrington owns this or runs this and
does a great job, and he's brought me in to
do these podcasts on the up On Game Network and
so it's kind of fun to work with LeVar. Be
(00:40):
sure to subscribe to the up on Game Network and
watch us on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get
your podcasts, and then on YouTube on the up On
Game Presents Taylor Scouting Channel. And so we're going to
educate you and we're gonna share some story worries about
(01:00):
college football, recruiting and football in general. And I'm really
fired up to have Tom Lougan Bill today. We're going
to talk about all things college football and football in general.
Tom is an outstanding ESPN and ABC college football announcer
(01:22):
and analyst. You can see him on Saturdays on the
sidelines of some of the biggest games in college football.
He's also an integral part of the nation's top scouting
service UC Report, which we'll talk about. And one of
my favorite guys is his dad. I've known for a
long time, Al Luganbille, longtime successful coach and an innovator
(01:46):
in my opinion, in the recruiting and evaluating world. So,
coach Lougan Bill, tell us about your family briefly.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I've my parents are doing really really well, both healthy,
seventy six and seventy five, living in Arizona. I've got
a twin sister who also lives in Arizona. Unfortunately, me
my travels as unl being in the coaching profession and
scouting profession, you don't often get to just live where
you want for an extended period of time, to bounce
(02:17):
around a lot of my travels and taking me to
the South East and to the Midwest, so on and
so forth, so I don't get to see him as often.
But I will say I was really fortunate to grow
up in this profession, and I was also fortunate that
my dad at the time had been in some really
(02:37):
good situations where the level of success allowed for us
not to have to move around, not to have to
bounce around, and so I really grew up in two
places in Tempe, Arizona in southern California, and had a
great upbringing, and have been running around in a locker
room since I could since I could walk, and you know,
(02:59):
going to training camp and sitting in in the coach's
offices and kind of just taking it all in if
you will. So I've been. I've had two really fortunate
things happen in my career, which I think are rare
and if you have the opportunity to do them, you
should do them. As I got to coach for my dad,
and then years down the road my dad actually worked
(03:20):
for me. And to have that working experience and that
back and forth and all those sorts of things, it
was was really special, you know, and I'm glad I
got to do that.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
In my mind. You've been a part of the evolution
of the modern scouting and evaluating business in college football.
Talk about Scouts Inc. And the you and you see report.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Well, I'll tell you so the Scouts Inc. Side of it.
I actually got involved with them in between when the
two thousand and one ex Fell season folded and then
I went to work for the Dallas Cowboys in both
a scouting capacity, and then I was also heading up
and coaching Jerry Jones's Arena Football League team at that time.
(04:11):
And one of the what scout Zinc Was at that
time was and there's Blessed Stow and National and there's
all these different you know, scouting services in professional football,
and we were essentially in that world. But what we
also had is we had contracts with media outlets, whether
(04:32):
it was CNNSI, whether it was the Sporting News, both
written publication and and then eventually what grew into online
and digital as we know it now, and then certainly
linear television. And we kind of I always called us
like the third opinion, Right, you have your coaches in house,
your scouting department in house, and then we would have
(04:54):
information farmed out to us just for another set of eyeballs.
It doesn't have a voice, doesn't have a horse in
the stable. We're looking at it purely objectively, and then
we would provide the objective feedback and then the you know,
the the programs or at that time it was at
the NFL level, you know, the the teams would make
(05:15):
their own decisions, right, but it's just like anything else,
you're trying to avoid making that mistake, right. You know,
a lot of people don't realize in the National Football
League in the first round, they all get one pick
in the first round, and they missed on it fifty
percent of the time. And that's with having all of
the available information. So what we ended up kind of
doing is we we kind of took what I would
(05:36):
call a pro personnel model in a private entity, and
that's what we started applying to high school football recruiting.
You know, you coached at a time, and my father
coached at a time and I'm a little bit past
it where all the coaches doing the recruiting and the
gas were doing the recruiting, and there was no scouting department,
(05:57):
there was no player personnel department. There was even a
director of player of personnel. It wasn't run quite like that.
And I think that's where where Nick Saban probably deserves
a lot of the credit of taking. Going back to
Michigan State, then of course l issue taking that pro
personnel model and instituting it, not just the principles of
(06:19):
it and the how and the why, but having to
build the manpower to be able to do it. I mean,
you're asking for a lot of resources that never really
existed before, and so we kind of took that model
and applied it to what we were doing at ESPN
because I was never in and had no intention or
want to be involved in the internet website recruiting side
(06:41):
of things. It's a great sub based model. They do
really really well. I just I have no interest in saying, Hey,
where is so and so taking his five visits to
and is so and so narrowed his choices down to
ten schools. I don't care like that. None of that
matters to me. I want to know, you know, what
are the strengths, what are the weaknesses, Where are the
pit what are the areas that need to be addressed?
(07:02):
What should be worried about? Red flags? Where does he
project in all of those sort of things. So that's
kind of the approach that we started with at ESPN
in two thousand and six. So, you know, fast forward
to now and the UC report really became. It was
it was born off of conversations that as I went
(07:24):
on the road, this would have probably been around I
don't know, twenty thirteen fourteen, somewhere around I'd go on
the road, and whether it be in the spring or
be in the fall when I'm doing games and just
talking to various programs and asking this kind of one
cent question, what is your biggest challenge in recruiting right now?
And almost to a program, it didn't matter if it
(07:45):
was Alabama, who's got great resources, all the way down
to a group of five school, it was we can't
keep up. We're not staffed to identify an eighth grader,
a freshman, even a sophomore. We're worried about the current
class and then trying to identify and work on the
next class. And again this was several years ago. So
what we did at the time, and this is specific
(08:06):
to u S report, we thought, well, what if we
had a way of doing all of that work in advance,
meaning if we could do what the NCAA does not
allow college coaches to do, which is actually be on
site it a camp or a combine, right, gather all
that information, have fresh eyes in person, right, and then
(08:28):
somehow house it in a one stop shopping type of
scenario like I wonder, I wonder how that would how
that would go over? And so at the time we
had and still do you know, we put together the
under arm All American Game IDESPN and so we have
exclusive rights to the camp and combine circuit, meaning that
(08:52):
that information and all of the video that comes from
it and how the cancer actually operated is run by
is run by us. Then we went out and we
did the same thing, and we gathered the information from
the Elite eleven. We had only exclusive rights to that.
And essentially what we did is we put together this
profile that when you register for one of those camps,
(09:14):
you have to fill it out, all right, and it
is unbelievably detailed. So we started gathering a lot of
information and I'm talking Randy, information that goes down to
the eighth grade guidance counselor, to the you know, the
the vice principal at the high school, the athletic trainers,
all of that stuff, contact information, everything you can possibly
(09:35):
imagine that you would need. All right, what do you
see in you see me stands for underclassmen? Is We
went out and we were more in the identification phase, Randy,
not so much the evaluation phrase meaning that we're gonna
watch the tape, we're going to apply a grade, we're
going to write a report, We're gonna have all the
video there for you, We're gonna have all the information
(09:57):
that you're gonna need here it is right now, you're
gonna make your own evaluation, right, So we're just giving
We're giving our feedback based off of what we see
when we first see these guys. So what happens is,
let's just say a player decides to go to a
camp and he's in our middle school circuit right, Well,
when he arrives at that thing, we do hand size,
(10:18):
arm length, wingspan, height weight, We do the one ten split,
the forty, the short shuttle, the three cone l drill,
all of the testing things that you can possibly imagine,
and it's all laser time, there's no hand held stuff.
And then we put them through actually football specific drills.
We tape in video every single rep that a prospect
(10:41):
has okay at that camp, the good, bad, and the ugly,
all of it. We then cut all that up. So
let's just say that player shows up in eighth grade,
and then he shows up again in ninth grade, and
then he goes to other camp in tenth grade. We
now have a library of three years on that kid
before he's ever even entered into his sophomore junior year
that we can now have as part of the product.
(11:04):
To sell to the schools who may not be able
to dive that deep right now. So it's kind of
like we're doing all the work here. It is. You
figure out what you want to do with it, you
make your own opinion of it, but owning the exclusive
rights to the video. Like if I were to tell you,
I'm a coach and I can't NCAA rules preclude me
from going out to an E lead eleven camp or
(11:26):
an under armoured camp or anything off campus to evaluate.
And what we're doing is we're taking quarterback a and
he's gone to three camps over four years, and we
have sixty reps of him on HD video going through
a variety of drills, a variety of different things, plus
all of the information we've gathered along the way. So
(11:48):
we're kind of taking the legwork out of it. Even
though the programs are still doing it. They're attacking it,
and there are a variety of different guidance services around there.
What we were able to do is kind of put
it all in one spot. You can build your board
through U see report if you want to. We developed
what we call max speed so we could do a
mile per hour algorithm on players on tape, which has
(12:10):
become a hugely popular deal. And so that's kind of
I know that was a long winded way of going
about it, but it was really kind of just born
of coach what we found out were the challenges for
coaches in today's game of football.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Coach, how what would you say, we get people that
watch this and want to learn how to do this
or get into this business. What makes you or what
do you think makes a good evaluator?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I think that you've got to be You've got
to be very very careful getting too enamored with physical measurables.
I know that we all have an ideal set of
standards that we want in things of that nature. And
you know, for example, at the quarterback position. You know,
back when I was coming out, that was the early nineties,
six foot quarterbacks were getting recruited to play power five football.
(12:57):
Well they're all over the place now, right. So I
think I would say two things really come to mind
that I felt like I learned at a young age.
Number One, does the does the prospect? And I think
this is true at any level. Does the prospect love football?
And I'm not talking about on Saturdays. I'm talking about
love football to the point that he's going to do
(13:19):
all of the other things that it's going to require
for a player with great ability to actually play like one.
All Right, I think that's very, very important. And then
I'm a huge believer in productivity. How good of a
football player are you? Do you produce? I think Zach
Thomas is a great, great, great example of this. He's
(13:40):
five to eleven, he's two hundred and thirty pounds coming out
of Texas Tech. And you and you would look at him,
and if you just went off of the measurables, you
wouldn't take him. And you start watching the tape and
all the guy does is find the football and make tackles.
That's all he does, the tackling machine. But he wasn't
six ' three, he wasn't too fifty five. So I
(14:01):
think sometimes we allow production to maybe overlap something that
can be measured. And then I also I also think
we do the exact opposite. I think we allow measurable
standard athletic traits wow moments to cloud our judgment on
(14:25):
consistent productivity. And I'm not don't want point any fingers here,
but like, look, I look at and I still can't
believe he was a top five pick. I still cannot
believe Anthony Richardson was a top five pick. I know
athletically he's a top five pick. How can you be
that talented and complete fifty three percent of your passes?
I and didn't play a lot? Was it battled injury
(14:48):
and wasn't overly productive like that concerns me and I
would say the same thing about about Will Levis a
Kentucky turn the ball over a lot, injured a lot,
but very physically gifted. I get that, and I understand
at the National Football League level there in their mindset
is well, if we're gonna miss, let's at least miss
on a talented guy, let's not take a reach on
a guy that we're not convinced is'talented enough to do it.
(15:11):
But I think those two things is does a player
love football and all of the things that go with it,
and making sure you don't allow something to drump how
productive the football player is.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You think coaches believe they can coach a kid better
than where he is today, and that's part of the
problem that they'll be.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Ego. Ego is definitely a part of the problem. I
don't think there's any question about that. And and you
know it's all mentally well, when he gets in our
building and in our culture, we'll we'll, we'll fix them. Okay,
And sometimes that may be true. I think, in all
fairness to what I just outlined with you, there was
a ton of question about Josh Allen. Right. He was,
(15:55):
he was supremely talented, injured quite a bit, had a
high turnover rate, and he's gone the other way, and
you know he and so I think that's what people
are looking at when they see Will Levice talent wise
or Anthony Richard Tall Richardson talent wise. But then you
have a guy like to me, you have a guy
that was at Washington and Fresno State and Jake Hayner
(16:18):
that was unbelievably productive, I mean ridiculously productive, and he
slips and that goes to a great situation in New
Orleans and you and you and kind of say, okay,
I can I can kind of see that one. And
but yeah, I think ego gets involved. How can how
can it not?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Those guys are making millions upon millions of dollars, have
done this for a long time, and uh, and you
do you do see that mentality.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I think, do you see more changes or what are
the changes you see in scouting that that are coming
anything that there's so much technology and.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, I think, you know, from a scouting perspective, I
don't know how much like what more we can do
in terms of now there's always going to be science
involved in the science side of it has really come
into the training part of the athlete, you know, and
(17:19):
then the strength conditioning world has vastly changed, and you've got
the catapult systems and they know when to pull back
and they can you know, they can measure whether somebody's
playing hard or not. That part of it, by the way,
I love that part of it. You go into some
of these programs and before practice they have a list
of who was given the most effort the day before
and a list below the line who wasn't. I mean,
(17:39):
that's what a verifiable, measurable data point that a player
can't argue with. So from a coaching perspective, that's does great.
I do think from a scouting perspective, we will continue
to evolve, and I think one thing that has slightly
changed is I hear from more and more coaches and
scouts that there interested in the one ten of the
(18:01):
forty than they are the forty. And they're also more
interested in the three conel drill. You probably wouldn't Nobody
probably would have said that thirty years ago. And you know,
the forty is this big, this this huge measuring stick.
So I think I think that has shifted to some degree,
and I do, and I really believe this. I think
the people in scouting that are scouting who they're getting
(18:25):
is a guy that are putting a lot of stock
in that although are the ones eventually over the course
of time that will have fewer misses because you've been
in this way longer than I have. And I tell
people when they asked me about, well, why didn't this
guy make it? Why didn't that guy make it? Ninety
nine percent of the time, it has nothing to do
with physical attributes. It's something else. There's there's something that
(18:47):
you either identified in the evaluation process and you thought
you could deal with it and it backfired on you,
or it's something you didn't know about and then once
you get the guy, you're stuck with it. So you know,
something as simple as being away from home the first time,
being accountable for your own time. Do you show up
to meetings routinely late? Do you miss treatment? Are you
not in study hall when you're supposed to be? Who
(19:10):
are you hanging around with? Can you handle being yelled at?
Being coached hard? How do you deal with support staff people?
Are you rude? Do you say please and thank you?
I mean, these are all a little simple like little things.
But what they also do, in my opinion, is there
a great indicator of what kind of human being you're getting.
You know, is the guy constantly in the weight room
(19:31):
or is a guy miss in the weight room? Like
all of these different things have absolutely nothing to do
with how physically talented a guy is. And so when
when those guys can't handle that side of it, they
kind of weed themselves weed themselves out. So I do
think there's been more of a push now to really
really hit that side of it super super hard. And
(19:53):
I think with the transfer portal to Randy, you your
relationship in recruiting. If a guy spurns you at the
high school level, don't burn any bridges with that kid.
You don't know what may happen, and the re recruitment
may start over and you might have a spot. And
I would say the same thing to the kid. You know,
I don't like when kids go on TV and they
(20:14):
play games with the hat thing and they you know,
you're showing a level of disrespect to a staff and
multiple coaches that have put a lot of time and energy.
Just thank them and say, hey, this is the place
for me. I don't think we need to play those
games because I know they're young people and they don't
think that thing through. But there may be a coach
somewhere that in the evaluation process goes you know what,
(20:35):
the kid was a real turd when when he decided
to go somewhere else, I think we should stay away
from him. And you don't want for the kids. You
don't want him to miss opportunities because of that type
of conduct.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
The other part of this, and we'll talk a little
bit more about transfers, but the NIL is a huge
factor in recruiting. How is this or will this affect
college football?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Is?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Well, well, go let's start there and then we'll talk.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Okay, Well, I think anybody with half a brain knew
that when you dumped this on the LAPS, a very
program in America, that this was going to seep into recruiting,
and there was no way it wasn't going to If
somebody was that naive when they're putting all this stuff together, Wow,
that really would surprise me. And that's what's led to
(21:22):
what is essentially pay for play right now. And you know,
and everybody's talking about name image and likeness and the
transfer portal and all of this stuff creating more parody.
It's not creating more parody. It's widening the gap. You're
never going to have Alabama's resources ninety nine percent of
the programs that no programs are created equal. So if
I'm in recruiting and I'm dealing with a different deck
(21:43):
of cards, and I want to go out and we
want to buy the best players right then, how is
anybody supposed to close the gap. So I think that
part of it is dangerous. And I also think what
it will lead to is a bunch of players committing
for all the wrong reasons, making a lot of mistakes,
and then next thing, you know, that doesn't pan out,
(22:04):
and then the transfer portal hits. So and the issue
with name image and likeness, Randy, is because they're not employees,
you can't you can't put performance standards in the contracts.
So essentially you're saying, I'm gonna pay you, but you
don't have to be a starter, you don't have to
be productive. You're not all conference, you're not all American. Now,
if you're gonna sit there and tell me, all right, well,
(22:24):
who's who's worth it? Well? Bryce Young earned every penny,
every penny of his name, image and likeness. Why because
he produced? What does production do provides value? Caleb Williams,
by all means, go get all of them, right, c J. Stroud,
get as much as you can. The guys that go
out and earn it. I'm cool with. I think my
(22:45):
biggest issue is we're this is there's no two way
streak here, and like if you're if you're Dabbos Sweeney
at Clemson, who who's more disappointed in dj U Jungle,
Dr Pepper or you? Right? And so that you know,
(23:05):
I just think that we're we I think you can
make a fair argument this is the most transformative legislation
and intercleavedend athletics over the last forty years, and especially
one that this large, this bast has so many unanswered questions,
and it was dumped on the lapse of everybody with
no blueprint on how to execute it. All right, Well,
if we're going to execute it a certain way, how
(23:27):
are we going to police it? And then if we're
going to please it, how are we going to enforce it?
And we have none of it. We have none of
that now, And and that's concerning to me. I think
the other thing too, And again, this whole discussion of
recruiting nil transfer portal, it's not going away until we
figure out a way to put in some guidelines, put
(23:47):
in some guardrails, put in some some rules and enforcement
and this and that that doesn't end up being in
court because the players are going to push back and
they're going to say, well, you're restricting my ability to
earn that's that's the anti trust. Well, then the way
you do this is you're gonna have to go away
from the scholarship model. You're gonna have to collectively bargain, right,
I mean, it's really kind of the only way that
we that we stay out of court in all of this.
(24:10):
And for me, I think my biggest concern is there
has to be give and take. I know the players
want everything and the coaches want there to be some
structure and some rules and then they want to be
able to do their their deal. But I compare it
to the NFL rookie contract. Right, So you've got an
NFL rookie contract, it's four years, it's pretty ironclad. You
have established ceilings, established floors, right, and you're gonna play
(24:32):
that contract if you are. If you are a rookie
in the NFL and you've been drafted and you go
out and you make the Pro Bowl as a rookie,
you don't just get to go be a free agent
and be on the open market. In college football, that's
exactly what you can do. There's no there's no there's
no cap, there, there are no rules to your movement.
You can take the money and run. And like the
(24:55):
NFL would never allow that, right because they've come together,
they've come to agreement in the in the midd and
that's what we're lacking right now in terms of this
is input and structure on the player side, and then
input in structure on the university side.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Do you think we'll get to signing contracts? I mean,
is that? And now I do know this and I
believe this the recent change and only allowing one transfer
with immediate eligibility, I think that's that's really helped the system,
(25:28):
And how do you think that's going to be the
Is that kind of the saving grace in many ways potentially?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Now is that applying to guys with their degrees too,
or just without a degree?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Without a degree, so that's.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, that's the other problem though, is okay without the degree,
but the ones who've gotten a degree, like a JT. Daniels, Well,
now there, it's the way these kids early enroll and
they're in summer school. They can graduate in two and
a half years. Well, if you got your degree, heck
you can transfer three or four time. I'd still be eligible.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, I'd have to actually I better before I say that.
I'd have to re reread that. But I do think
that the only being able to transfer the one time
and play immediately is a really good thing. So that
that next time you want to do it, there is
(26:23):
you're going to have to sit and lose that.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, there's a deterrent. Yeah, there's a deterrent of some
sort because right now, and I'm not to get off
my long guy on this thing, I'm really not, but
we were making everything so easy. If things don't go
your way, and I had a speech to I was
talking for about fifteen minutes to about fifty of the
(26:46):
top prospects that were underclassmen in the country this past
summer at our at our Future fifty events, and a
snippet of it was put on the internet and somewhat
taken out of context because the previous portion of what
I was speaking of was tied into what I'm going
to get in andto. Here is the one thing that
I know is a constant, and it's a common denominator
(27:08):
amongst coaches. They don't want kids that are uncoachable and
non competitors. They just don't. That's not what they're interested in.
And what's happened is with the transfer portal. This is
where I get worried. Is a player, is a great
player coming out of high school. Everybody's recruited him, right,
everybody's patting him on the back zone, how good it is,
how good he is. Then he arrives on campus all right, now,
(27:30):
all of a sudden, he's one of a bunch of
guys that were all him right when they were in
high school, and that coach that was loving him up
is all of a sudden screaming and yelling at him,
and the de recruitment phase starts and you're bombarded with
responsibility and accountability for your time, and you're away from
home and there's a lot going on right and depending
(27:51):
on the level of maturity the player, a lot of
them can't handle that or they don't have the ability
to battle through that and to compete and be adverse.
And I'm not just talking about compete competing athletically, I'm
talking about competing mentallygue because it's hard. I mean, that's
a big jump and guys who who've taken it will
will tell you that. And my issue is we have
so many guys in the transfer portal that haven't been
(28:13):
on campus for two years because their first inclination is
when things don't go my way, I'm going to take
my ball and go home. And that's not everybody, but
there's a lot of guys like that. And you look
at the numbers, and there's been twenty five hundred and
three thousand, you know, people in transfer portal. Go back
and look at what they're graduating year class was, it'll
(28:33):
be like twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty.
They haven't they haven't battled and I think and listen,
I'm four player freedoms, but we don't ask them to
have to fight and compete like they're going to have
to as a grown adult when they enter the professional world. Right.
I mean, that's that's something that I think is a
(28:57):
slippery slope. Other other transfer scenarios, I was in a
trans scenario where I was the starting quarterback. I actually
had beaten out another player that I knew was the
starting quarterback the year before I got there, So I
knew when I transferred there, I was gonna have to
beat out a guy that started the year before. We
have a coaching change. They go to more of a
(29:18):
quarterback run based type of scheme, and he was a
much better athlete than I was. Okay, I had a
red shirt year. I could have transferred to another power
of school, just sat out, still had a year of eligibility.
I just didn't want to do that. I wanted to
I wanted to play right away. I didn't have any
interest in doing that, so I transferred down to Eastern Kentucky. Right.
So there are different reasons like why a person transfer.
(29:38):
I wasn't recruited out of high school. I had to
go to junior college improve myself, which I did ended
up doing well enough to earn multiple Power five scholarship
offers two years later, so I kind of had to
earn it. I had to go. I had to go
make it happy. And I think we've taken that away
a little bit with the younger player, that if sometimes
(30:01):
maybe they just need a coach to pull him over
the side or somebody to say, hey, listen, man, hang
in there. I don't know if you ever seen that
Tubby Tubby Smith quote about his dad when he wanted
to he wanted to. It was he was mentioned he
was talking about this same subject that we're talking about.
He was talking about the transfer portal with basketball, and
he had called his dad and said, I I want
(30:21):
to come home. I want to leave. He goes, You're
not coming home. Your your room's been rented out. You
have two choices. You can stay there, you can go
to the army and and then you know, Tubby goes
on to say that in his particular situation, he was
glad he didn't leave right And I and I think
that's the other thing too, with the transfer portal, Randy,
nobody's doing the math. There aren't enough scholarships for everybody.
(30:42):
So you think you're going in there and all of
this is going to start over again. Unless you've been
tampered with, there may not be a landing spot. And
you better be careful when you make that choice, and
be careful who you're listening to. Are you listening to
the right people? And then do they have that your
best interest in mind? And have you really thought it
through and realized what you be getting into if you
(31:05):
choose to make this move. And I just think those
are all things that we're still navigating our way through.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, these are young kids making adult decisions before they're
ready to make them. And you see that all time.
And I think the NCAA has a tendency to pass
a rule and then it takes them about two years
to figure out that, oh, we need to fix it,
and then they fix it and hopefully get it right.
(31:34):
So that's kind of how I see them. Let's go
back to talking about players and the evaluating side of
it and get off the politics a little bit. Sorry
I brought that up. That was my bad.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Well it's okay, literally my profession, I mean, it's a
topic of conversation. I'm just about everything you can't avoid
it now, it's just chin the whole landscape of the game.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, and I think you've made some great points that
people are going to take away and use to make
decisions or in their futures. So talk about the players.
The game has changed quite a bit in evaluating and recruiting.
When and how did length become so important?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think length became so important because and I have
just a tremendous amount of respect for really successful fcs
and group of five level coaches because they're having to
make so much more of a projection right and they're
not necessarily getting to come right in play right away,
(32:39):
may not need a red shirt. They're getting the guy
that they're having to say in their mind, Okay, I
think this guy, he'll be able to He'll be able
to carry another forty pounds, all right, he's got super
long arms. He doesn't look like much. Now, get him
on campus, feed him, get him in the weight room,
red shirt him. Maybe he doesn't play much as a
red shirt freshman, and all the sudden it is a retrosphomore.
(33:01):
The guy's a completely different dude. And I just think
length and speed have somehow kind of come together and
and with I mentioned the FCS programs and the G
five schools, and some of those those are the guys
that they're targeting. And it's one of the reasons why
you see, you know, like Layton Vanderesch the defensive end
(33:23):
for the Cowboys, it was at Boise. He's a prime.
He was one of those guys. A lot of the
guys we've seen at tight end and at defensive end
that have come through Iowa, they were those types of guys, right,
And I just think you have far more late bloomers
than you have ready made guys. You know, everybody always
focuses on the four and the five star guy, but
there's one hundred and thirty thirty some odd schools and
(33:46):
eighty five guys on the scholarship and then you've got
walk ons. Well, they ain't all four stars and they
and they're not all developing at a rapid rate where
they're just jumping up. So I think that the speed
in the length side be because the game has become
such a space game and you have to be able
to cover real estate. Right. And when I say that
(34:10):
something is big a deal is wingspan right cuts down
on real estate, It cuts down on space. It cuts
down on windows, all of those sorts of things, the ability,
the ability to off of the first step edge. If
you're a six to six kid and have that first step,
all of a sudden you're two and a half three
yards in the back field on one step, You've just
(34:30):
covered real estate. I mean, I think that that part
of it, and the fact that more and more late
bloomers that are tall and have length become really really
good players. It just happens later on.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
So are long arms more important than strength and speed
or speed?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I uh, I would say strength maybe, because that's something
you continually can add. I don't know if you ever
are gonna to me. I remember some of those Jimmy
Johnson early Miami teams, and I remember you know some
of those in UCLA and been some of these places.
(35:10):
I think there was a real push in that late
eighties early nineties where it was like speed's gonna trump size,
and if you can run, you can play. If you
can run, we want you. I remember Irban Meyer when
he was at Florida in the early days, in their
team staff meeting meeting room, they had a big sign
on the top of the wall that said recruit the
(35:30):
fastest team in America. Didn't say recruit the biggest, strongest
or longest, recruit the fastest team in America. I just
think that the length side of it, combined with the
speed now because of the space in the field that's
being attacked, has probably just gone up a few notches
and level of importance.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So as that evaluator, that's where you were talking about earlier,
about some of the other intangibles that the instincts and
the wand and all of those other things kind of
has to be evaluated to be sure that the length
and the speed are valuable.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think one of
the biggest challenges in today's day and age of recruiting
and evaluating quarterbacks is what do they actually know about
the game? Right, Because we've gone from not that long
ago where you had to beg your coach to be
in the shotgun. Now you don't ever even see guys
(36:32):
under center rarely. Right. We went from check with me,
and we went from changing things at the snap and
operating things and being responsible for protections to sitting back,
lifting your leg and clapping and throwing a bubble screen, right,
or you know, cutting the field in half and just
doing you know, half field wreaths, which is fine, and
it's revolutionized the spread offense is revolutionized so many different things.
(36:55):
But at the same time, I think oftentimes when you
get these kids up on the board, they may not
they may be really talented and couldn't tell you what
a one technique is or couldn't you know, couldn't tell
you how you know, will safety pressure from the boundary?
Where are they vulnerable? And they probably maybe they can't
tell you. I go to Canton combines for the last
(37:17):
eighteen years and I see guys with fifteen offers, and
if you ask them to take a five step drop
and throw a twelve to attend a twelve yard speed
cut out, they can't do it. There's no footwork there,
there's no nothing. So I just think there's more to
examine now, And I think, you know what, I think
Andy Reid in the NFL is a great example of this.
He born out of the West Coast offense womb his
(37:41):
entire career, and they got that dude wearing number fifteen,
and I think he kind of started realizing then, maybe
it was before that, that these quarterbacks aren't being trained
and groomed the way they used to be. They're not
coming into our league prepared to have this much verbiage
in a play call or or you know, to have
to have all of these different things going on. So
(38:02):
instead of us trying to stick a square peg into
a round hole, we better start focusing on how they've
been developed and trained and building around their strengths and
trying to mass the weaknesses. And when you watch Kansas
City now rant it they look like a college team,
like they really do, and not everybody has a Patrick Mahomes,
but I do think there has to be Like I
(38:23):
don't think size is anywhere near what it was, and
I don't want to say intended to be, but it
used to be that was just if you weren't this tall,
you weren't playing particularly at the power flat flap, and
it didn't matter how good, how good of a player
you were, right And then you know that's I think
the shotgun spreading people thin, opening up windows to see
(38:46):
the field better, moving the launch point, moving the pocket.
It's really created more opportunities for the undersized player that
wouldn't have had them in the eighties or the nineties
or even maybe the late nineties and like to see
I like to see that part of it because I
still think at the end of the day, quarterback plays
about two things, decision making and accuracy. There are strong arms,
(39:09):
there are average arms. There are quick feet, there are
slow feet. Can you process and do you throw the
ball to the right place? I mean really, I mean
that's why you know I bring up Bryce Young again.
I mean, there's not going to be a single He'll
walk through the door right now, and there would be
a single thing physically that would wow you about it.
But he works at it. I had I had their
(39:33):
offensive coordinator who's now back with the Patriots, Bill O'Brien,
tell us in a Sugar Bowl meeting this last year
when they beat Kin said he's the best quarterback I've
ever coached. You know who he's coached, right, And so
so he said, he goes when all those things we
were talking about that have nothing to do with physical ability,
(39:54):
he said, he's got all of that in droves. He goes.
And so what happens is is you become less and
less worried about him being five to eleven six and
eighty five pounds because all of that other stuff that
you can't coach matters so much, right, And I think
that's and that's great because when you have the six
foot guy and you find those things out about him,
(40:16):
you don't worry one lick about recruiting them. You just don't.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, the the uh, let's switch gears real quick here.
There are some new rules in the college game that
are designed to shorten the length of the game. I
don't know if you've had a chance to look at these,
but but eliminate consecutive timeouts by a team, Eliminate the
(40:43):
untimed down at the end of the first and third quarter,
kind of like the uh. It's a little bit like
the I guess it's not an NFL thing, but and
then the running clock after first downs, which is the
NFL thing. So what are your feelings about those changes?
How will that impact because you're going to be out
there on the sideline or in the booth. Yeah, how
(41:07):
do you see those help in the game.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Well, it's going to help the pace of play of
the game. And I think from a fan perspective, the games,
it just they're running too long. Three and a half,
three forty five, you know, I broadcasted in the XFL
last spring, and you know, some of their rules are
very very unique, but their clock rules were fantastic. I
mean those games were done in two forty five right,
(41:30):
fifteen minute quarters, all right, but eliminated some of that
you know, that that hidden time. And I think that's
what college football is trying to work towards a little bit.
It may limit some of the plays offensively that you
have an opportunity to get in just because you know
there there's you're going to have more time ticking off
the clock. I like it. I just I think it's
(41:52):
good that we have fewer stoppages. And I think the
next thing that I that needs to happen in college football.
We've got to stop we've viewing every single play. We
got to stop pressing that button down unless something's glaring.
We got we got to play football, let's go. And
that in and of itself would change so much about
the pace of play in the length of games. And
we're not quite there yet. And I and I listen,
(42:16):
I think you're going to see potentially over the next
couple of years, I think you're going to be potentially
seeing a shift in the kickoff kickoff return game to
make that safer ensure that you still have it as
part of the game, but make it safer. Maybe you're
after kick or extra points, you get more opportunities than
just one or two. And see, you know who's willing
(42:37):
to maybe do that? And and so I don't know,
it's it's I think it's a good thing to sum
it up, I really do.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Is there a way to for the athlete to to
get in the UC report or or how do they
is it by going to the camps or all that?
What's the best way for them to get in front
of your eyes?
Speaker 3 (43:02):
So what we're doing is we're gathering information lists and
lists and lists, it's like you used to do in
the old days, right, and then we're inputting it and
then the evaluation part of it starts. And then we
have two sets of camps. We have essentially an invite
camp which is going to be geared toward and focused
(43:25):
on probably one hundred and eighty five to two hundred
and fifteen kids per camp. But these kids would be
established guys, guys that we know have offers early they
are highly recruitable young players. And then we have more
of an open market combine that's going to get into
the four and five hundred number of kids that are
(43:47):
going to that we don't know enough about yet, that
maybe haven't been identified or recruited. Now we're giving them
same instruction and we're asking to fill out the same
information because that who we're going to start finding guys
from is out of that pool. And what we do
is a qualifier. Sometimes we run those on a weekend.
(44:08):
We'll do the combine and a saturday at the camp
on a Sunday and we'll take let's just say the
top two or three guys in each position that showed
up for the combine, and we'll ask them to come
back the next day and see how they compete against
the other guys. And so it's really just we're just
gathering initially names. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure you
remember college sports data was a big thing for a
(44:31):
long time, right where it's just you're just trying to
get so that you can build your database. And then
we just start. What we're starting to do is we
start to just go based off elimination of what we know,
then what do we need to find out? Who do
we need to go get? Like I when I'm in
the process of doing whatever our our minimums are per
(44:53):
day and per week for each one of our guys
that we're doing it. There's times we're all going try
to watch the tape and he'll have a huddle of camp.
We'll have it in there and it's blank. There's nothing
on it. So we got it. We we got to
go out and get that tape right so that we
can get that guy. That we can get that guy done.
That doesn't happen often, but it does happen. But I
think the other thing too, is, and I say this
(45:14):
to prospects all the time, we are in an era.
They are in an era where if you put in
an ounce of effort, of being proactive, you can make
all your recruiting dreams come come true. If you're moderately
proficient on a computer, if you can send a text,
send an email, send a direct message, you can get
(45:35):
to every program in America in the in the blink
of an eye. Whereas in the old days, I mean, yeah,
to wait for those coaches to come in the spring
that bring in their VHS tapes, coaches dubbing them, you're
taking them back and then you're waiting for foot traffic
in the fall, and you know, you didn't even really
get recruited until the spring of your junior year, if
you were going to get recruited at all. Now these
kids can get seen, they can get viewed, they can
(45:57):
be evaluated, and and I tell them, I'm like, guys,
this is I have a little seminar thing I've put together.
I'm like, this is not rocket science. If you follow
a few you know certain things, and just be a
little bit proactive. And then when you do those sorts
of things and you do come to a combine or
you do come to a camp, everything you've now done
(46:18):
is going out to over I don't know, close to
one hundred and thirty hundred and forty schools. If you
can buy an FCS the Ivy League, we have group
of five and then we have every Power five school
but one and and so they can help them help themselves.
And I'll tell you the other thing too that we
(46:39):
talk about that it's important in player evaluation now more
than ever before. Kids have got to understand that their
social media habits are being studied, what they are putting
on social media is being evaluated. And I think I
always tell them, guys, before you click send, just think
twice because you think you can delete it. It lives
(47:01):
forever on the Internet. And and I know, and I've
been in certain buildings with certain programs that have one
or two guys assigned to do nothing but check all
of the guys they're recruiting and check their social media
and report to the head coach every morning. This is
what Johnny Smith put on there, this is what Bobby
Wells put on there, this is what so and so
put on there, And just don't blow an opportunity through
(47:23):
conduct that's totally preventable, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah, I lived by the the idea that that everything
is evaluated, including parents or relatives or all those different
things that an athlete has in his world is evaluated.
So I think you're that's great advice.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
And Randy, Randy the other thing too. And you've asked
me how recruiting changed, Maybe quite a bit, And I
think I think because of a limited contact that coaches
now have with prospects, getting a kid to come to
your camp where you can physically coach him is more
important now than it has ever been, maybe in the
history of the game, because because of all the in
(48:09):
my opinion, because of all the adulation and all the
praise and the expectation, and you know, these kids oftentimes
can think that they've got it made, and there can
be some entitlement, not with everybody, but it's there. It's
part of the deal. You want to get that kid
on your campus, and you want to get him in
your practice setting, and you want to see what he
does when he's coached hard. You want to see how
(48:30):
he interacts with his peers. You want to see what
his motor is like. You want to get a sense
of how he is in your building with other people
that are around him, and that I have heard more
about that becoming invaluable from coaches across America maybe than
anything else, because if you have that and maybe you
(48:51):
get it once or twice, or a guy comes to
your camp three times, I think that's invaluable.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
No question about it. I have been recommending that for
some time. So so, hey, coach, I really appreciate you
coming on with us. I'm gonna wrap this up for
the folks watching, and you always have great information and
have given us a lot to think about and a
(49:19):
lot to work with. And I think if kids and
parents pay attention to what you've said today on this
they're going to improve their opportunities and the process will
be easier for them. So I really appreciate you doing that.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, I appreciate it too, Coach. I appreciate and having
me make sure you say hello to LeVar for me.
He worked with us with the undarm All America game
for for several years and so it's good to have
him out and around the kids.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
He's his son's good by the way.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Yeah. Yeah, don't forget that that's pretty pretty quality bloodlines.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah, he sure does so. Folks, again, thanks for joining
us on the up on Game Network. Please subscribe to
that rate us, review us. You can find us again
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast wherever you get your
podcasts YouTube, go to up on Game Network and then
(50:17):
up on Game Presents. You can also follow me at
Twitter at our Taylor FB scout. I don't know if
that's Twitter or X anymore, but whatever it is, and
please follow us and you can watch our episodes anytime.
We air on Fridays at nine am, So please check
(50:41):
us out there and glad to see you and glad
to have Tom Lougan bill on and appreciate his time.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Thanks Coach, Thank you, coach,
Host
LaVar Arrington
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