November 13, 2025 • 36 mins
Mark and Ana continue their conversation with the iconic Vanessa Williams. They talk all things Wilhelmina, from her hard exterior to her soft moments, the birth of her dynamic duo with Marc St. James, and bringing the theater to the television.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome back to Viva Betty. How have you been fine?
I mean, I'm really excited about today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you excited?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm excited about Vanessa icon mother f ing Williams that
we somehow managed to get all the week from one
day down. We did promise you last week that you
were going to have an extended interview. You're getting it.
You're getting it right now.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
We're talking wigs. Oh god, we're talking drama. The devil words, Brana,
I don't even want to know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I don't know, roll the click.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Did you have any sort of vibe on Wilhelmine and
what it would mean to be sort of so as
a black woman, like playing the lead of not only
of a of a network show, but also as sort
of like this iconic and she wasn't at the point,
I mean, you made her such, but like just to
be this editor of this big fashion magazine. Was there
(01:16):
any sort of like what did you feel when you
were like, oh, I know this character or do did
you know this character?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Well? Well, Sylvia who was our creator, that's right, he
saw me, he loved me. And at Diva's Christmas Carol
where I play you know, iconic. Yeah, and uh so,
uh you know, she's throwing fits and he knew that
I could do the diva part of it. So that's
(01:43):
why I get her. I want her. She'll nail it.
And again, this is a pilot, that's right, pilot nobody
had like it was not there was no prototype or
what it wasn't so it wasn't you know er it
was just a whole new genre.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
That it didn't seem like anyone particular liked it or
wanted it.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, it kind of gave us the freedom might this
is fun, Wow, this would be cool. But you know,
and then we picked up that May I was like, okay,
let's get it on too. It was always like, what's
the next step. Let's see if we can get it on.
It's a Friday night, let me we can get it on,
you know. And then when we were at the TCA's
that the Television Critics Association, and we had to do
(02:25):
that panel that's right and doing interviews and all the
writers are like, this is the best thing that ABC has.
I hope you know that. And we were slotted for
like Friday night, you know, kind of not a throwaway but.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But not not not not.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, and in front of bras anatomy. I mean we
you know, we blew up because they valued what we
created in the in the.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Pilot, when Uglybody hit your desk, were you sort of
like I'm gonna I want to do this it like
I'm going to do this and I'm.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
To bring what about her?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Like like Willelmina, Like how did you sort of approach it?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Honestly, I never know what I am going to do.
You know, that's the first day on set. You don't
know what I mean. You think like I'll try to
do my best, but you're kind of figuring out. I've
got an approach and let's see whether it works. So
I it wasn't a calculated thing.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I mean I think amazing.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I was in dead.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I think with your first scene with Hot by the way,
so you.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Boobs hairs I'll toss on themselves, was like, okay, this
is a funday work.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
When Terry told us, when Terry told us that that
was your first scene, I was completely because I have
no idea. America's first scene was the photo shoot where
she's in the late latex, and your first scene was
You're in bed with Frind she by the way so
fucking hot, I mean, the two together, excuse.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Me, by the way, and I you know, the annoying
bit about this too is that all of you guys
look exactly the same and I'm the only one that
looks different. So the reboot's gonna look great? Am I
getting recasted? We can go back to twenty ten according
to the ways in which you all look. But oh
(04:20):
oh oh oh, we also do you know, we're obviously
talking about fashion.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
We get the fashion. So Season one is a little
weird for all of us.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Sure it was. It was an adjustment. But I want
to just talk about the pilot because one of my
favorite looks that has ever been on, like as far
as I've seen or that I can remember, is your
Versace suit the first time that we meet her. Do
you remember the white, the white with the with like
(04:54):
the gold kind of bell necklace like that versus I
think it was vers I.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Think it was, and it's fat Field.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was, yeah, in the pilot, in the pilot, and
I was just so, I mean, I was taken by
it for a myriad of reasons, but also because it
was gay. You're probably because of gay, you're gay. Probably
the gay stuff write that part. We didn't figure that
(05:26):
out yet. We're not there yet. The season three.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We had all figured it out.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
But I feel like it was because and I met
like no, because I I think that that for some
reason there was an overlap or something, or maybe she
wore in the like in one of the photos or something.
I just remember seeing you in it in person and
being like, that's a really beautiful woman.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Lynn had to tell you when you walked into the table,
Lynn was like, that's festival like like and I was like,
who was gagged? Lynn was absolutely gagged meeting you for
the first time.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
You remember Almo and Grouchland's Queen of Trash. Nowadays, all
these kids like aren't you in Hannah Montana. I'm like,
oh my god, it's amazing where people like all from.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, but are you getting any sort of Are you
getting any sort of you know, ugly betty love now?
Because they were, yeah, like, has that is that a
thing that like is recurring for you?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
It's so worldwide and I get a chance at the
stage or every night to like, you know, we love
to where are you from? Like Asia, Taiwan, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea.
Uh always uh, like Poland forgetuation to Magro rantsom Flora Spain.
(07:00):
I mean, it's Brazil, all Australia. It's been incredible the
reach that we we have in our and now that
it's on Netflix, forget it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yes, yes, and and that, and that was kind of
the impetus for the reason why we even started doing
this and like this rewatch is because of the Netflix
kind of thing, like where it was just like, oh wow,
you guys, you guys like this this TV show from
a long time ago. But I just I you know,
I really, I really feel strongly about the character of
(07:37):
will Amminislator being like a powerful black woman in power
because I think that part of the cultural aspect of
this podcast is talking about things that are extremely topical today.
We did cultural conversation.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Before it was like you know, like deragor like now
now everybody like we sort of like broke lot of
and I should say you broke a lot of.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I mean, we as a family did.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
On terms in the terms of like sort of the
immigration conversation, the healthcare healthcare conversation, what it what it
was to be sort of.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
A young brown woman in the workplace. But you were
sort of like a.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Black woman in position of power and sort of you
really your character spoke to sort of all of that,
because you had to sort of battle Bradford, and you
had to battle sort of nepotism and you know, the
rightful place of sort of your the woman that you
were being constantly sort of.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Passed over because and sit alone as a woman of
color in that space.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And so it was still such a plause.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And bossed it up. And so I don't know, I
guess I suppose the question is did that mean anything
to you at the time or looking back at it,
does it? What does it mean to you now?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Well, I luckily had examples to to model myself as
Susan Taylor, who ran Essence magazine for years, was a
great great uh you know, shero she had ran it
for years. She was smart and creative and she was
the epitome of black female excellence as an editor. So
(09:18):
that was kind of and also Andre Leon Talley, oh yeah,
style and uh and just knowledge. There were examples. So
it wasn't like ever been seen before.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I hadn't been seen on like network TV though, right,
Like that's the context in which we're we're asking too,
Like It's like, it's not that they didn't exist, it
was just for for people that had never seen.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Talking to Diane Carroll who was Plade Julia back in
the sixties and black nursers.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Had Dominique on Dynasty, pardon me exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
But in the sixties she single handedly integrated the union
because she was like, I'm a black woman, I need
my hairdresser to do my hair, and that say insisting
and getting her way. She made sure that she got
her black hairdresser on set to do her and she
(10:22):
integrated the union in just one, you know, one decision,
so that power move. Seeing those women just change the
game constantly, it was easy for me to kind of
make it a reality. It wasn't you know, it wasn't our.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Fat Speaking of which, so we've had a lot of
hair conversations.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Have you watched season one?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Have you like? Have you have you watched Uglyboddy like
season one recently or in any.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Not recently recently, but yeah, I've watched it, and I
mean there's some things out I don't even remember me
like when we do that what.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Was hilarious to me too. And we talked about this
with Terry all the time. Is when we.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
First started out, they gave us like because to your point,
like they just thought like, oh, it's a brown girl
as a lead, Like this is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And we had like four dollars to make you know,
we made a dollar out of fifteen cents.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And I had.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Literally like plastic like hair ponytails, like stuck on the
side of my head. Like I looked completely insane, and
you know, but then as the.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Show goes on, it gets a lot better.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
But like my and Betty's wig was a complete insane nightmare,
and you know, like and.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
You know, all of us looked so great, like we
looked amazing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
But it was so crazy to sort of like see
that evolution of like when they hate when they hated
us and didn't care about us until then we got
nominated and all of a sudden, we all looked everyone.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Look I was like breakfast. We didn't we didn't get
catered breakfast, and so we got the nominations.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I mean, it's just like but but but I I
suppose that what I'm saying is watching it for the
first time, I'm like, what's going on with everyone's hair?
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Well, that was another thing. So I don't remember our
Friday Nights. Friday Nights and the hair makeup trail. Yes, girls,
like someone's getting someone's walking off the plane and he's
done it.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
We called it Survivor trailer because when I tell you,
like we would it would be like a new fucking
team literally like every month, because we were all like,
we look like lunatics.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I need to talk about Michael Uri and and and
Vanessulay we did, and Mark and Whilhelmina because they're I
and and correct me if I'm wrong. The but you
like the character of Mark was not meant to only
be Yuri the entire time. And and that when as
(13:26):
soon as it like hit and your and your chemistry
kind of hit in the way that it did, which
seemed automatic, which I think that the two of you
have spoken about myriad times that you were like, oh no,
we're this is this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, how did that go down?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Exactly?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Well? In theory, Wilhelminia was supposed to hire so to
fire somebody every episode, so they would they would be
an assistant and they get fired and you have somebody new.
So we were doing the pilot and we did the
scene and like my my I'm in my leather Chay's
lounge and for my botox. Yes, Michael comes in with
(14:07):
the needle and he's like, oh my god, if is
there a way that if I give you and I
have some little leftover, let's do I do one of
my eyebrows and lead the other eyebrow up. So but
he was already he was like Schemia, like wouldn't it
be hilarious? Like genius and met her a friend of
and he went to Juilliard to like, this guy's brilliant,
(14:29):
and we just had immediate chemistry and and obviously I
respected his you know, Juilliard is amazing, his art, his education.
But also he was like, let's go for it. Let's
and that's again our cast. We were always like let's
try this, let's bounce this off each other at what
(14:53):
And then so that was hilarious, like, oh my god,
he's really funny. And then when I walk into the
big conference and he's following me, and I sit down
and slink into my chair and I see out of
my purple vision, he SLINKs down the exact same way,
in exact same tempo.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I'm like, okay, this is this?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, And when I called out from they were calling
you from, Mark, and he's like, all that stuff, all
that stuff came in the pilot.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I can't even tell you how much I say to
Mark on a daily I'm halaciously upset Mark.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yes, I'm hilaious. Was I was literally about to bring
that up. I feel like, you know, we we we
we talked so much about We talked so much though
about like those one liners and and and just kind
of those buttons and and stuff and I and I
think that the oh in the Halloween episode, uh, when
(15:51):
Mark dresses up as Betty and and Wilhelmina walks in
and she's like, Mark, what does she say?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
She said, I've never seen to the effect of like,
I've never seen anything so cruel.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Someone's getting a raised.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Me this.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I was just I was gagged because it's also just
it just reminded me so much too, like watching the
show too reminds me of how much fun we had
making the show as someone that has never seen it
like on screen before, but was there there is something
(16:31):
that just is so like palpable about watching it, being like, oh,
these these people are having a good.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Time because it was all happening in the moment. But
the the the chemistry that you had with Mark, you
also surprisingly had that with America. I mean there was
we just watched Trust, Lust and Must Yes. Yeah, and
you have a bunch of scenes. This is the this
is when Selma first comes in and and Betty tells
(16:58):
you that she's having the trouble with with Ignacio and
how she needs money and you you have the scene
where you like offer her the twenty thousand dollars and uh,
you know you're you're giving her this and no no
strings attached. But there was such chemistry between you and
America that was natural and amazing as well, like you
(17:19):
just whatever whatever scene partner you were given and I
and I think that holds true for any but we're
talking to you so but I think it was just
so incredible to watch, like you sort of go to
that vulnerable, vulnerable space. Because this is also where Nico
was sort of like nico One, as Mark likes to go.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh yeah, I call her nico One Nicoll Mark I
was like, who's that?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Mark is such a bitch, So so nico One, look,
look we're excuse twenty years later.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
We can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
We could be real when Nico went, but like, but
you have like you have, you know, that's the thing
is that you have. So you had that chemistry also
because you bully America, but you're also really Betty I
should say not America, but like you know, because you're
you have, but you had that chemistry with her as well,
and it was just so incredible to watch.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What what what did that feel like? On set?
Speaker 4 (18:24):
I think, you know, yes, we were, we are and
we're all talented, but it was almost like doing a
play where you're at a stage and you're really free.
That's what I love doing theater because you've got the
whole stage to make it different and make it new
every night, every performance weak because you're in charge of
(18:47):
your own and there was a freedom that we had
when we shot Ugly Betty. Even though we had guest directors,
we still have the freedom to kind of make it
our own and have our own relationships. And so it
wasn't a film and people were like, do it again,
try to like that, and so there was a freedom
that we had that I think made it all so
genuine and like almost in prov even though we had
(19:12):
scripted words. So the trust that we had back and
forth and and the respect made us a different unit.
It was almost like the show. I mean, like doing
a theater production every week, like what are we doing
this week? And so that really I think that those
(19:34):
dynamics gives you the ease and trust to trust your
other put.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And that the energy up.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, we've all had theater background, so.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's true, we all did.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I also forget about that. I mean most of us
were sort of New York theater actors, and so what
what the was I mean, this is a broad question,
so you might have more than one, but like give
us whatever you think of off the top of your head.
What was your favorite ugly betty sort of memory. I
(20:09):
know it's the one I want to back.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Up on most of the time is when I'm on
the rooftop with the bat baseball bats, smashing the mannequins,
Mick ter Nelly, our director smashing them and getting here
and then then Michael's got the the gong and he's
shaking shaking the thundersown like I mean, it's so camp.
(20:33):
It's like, could not be any more camp. It's just
like it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's and how do you know it?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Sorry?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
The continue and no, no, I just I want to
know how you navigate camp with with just keeping like
your feet firmly planted on the ground as the character though,
because I think that there are so many moments but
like that are also extra really grounded in reality, like
just as a performer.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Even just the episode that we watched where you're talking
to Nico and Nico one and you're having the sort
of there was yeah, you had so many sort of
like really grounded moments, but it was still like you're
still like naked under a fur coat and you know
what I mean, and sort of like yeah, like you
(21:24):
don't have grit. You need grit to get through this life.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Right, how do you how do you like, uh navigate
like the real with the absurd?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I suppose, uh, well, I mean I do think it's
on the page. Again, all of our writers have gone
on to have their own shows and do tremendously well.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So that's right exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Pers I know Terry's over there. You curated the best
writers of the time, so it was all on the
page and we could have fun and and and again
freedom like we didn't have like the writers saying oh
you said you said it wrong, do it again. That's
where we had this works better for me, Can I,
(22:05):
you know, trim this down or eliminate or can I
add this? And that also helped for me make my
my performance and willhelmina clearer like Mark became like, you know,
that was my signature thing that I came up with,
you know, and those kind of little nuggets of like, oh,
this would be fun, and then that works and the
(22:27):
writers write it in and it becomes consistent, and then
all of a sudden, you've got a character that people
recognize and love and you've got your kind of pattern.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And they write to it.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
I've always said that I think like that was something
that we were so lucky to have because I think
the more the writers got to know us, the more
they wrote to us. And so to your point, it
wasn't even really navigating between camp and reality. It was
like they were really writing to our strengths. And again,
to your point, we were not to toot.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Our own horn, but I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
We did have the capability of of having that sort
of comedy and drama and all of that within the
same moment. I think, you know, Becky Newton is is
in this last episode that we just watched. She's such
a clear indicator of that where she's sort of navigating
this relationship with Daniel where he's treating her like garbage
and she's trying to act like it's cool.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
But then the camera pans.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
To her after he sort of blows her off, and
you see her dejected face, and she was just so
brilliant in these ways.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
We have that with with v with the with her face.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Senator, Yeah, like just seeing you just sort of, you know,
trying to put this face on of being you know,
the good daughter, and then he, you know, is the
way he is and that sort of one look to
the camera you just don't need much and that's you know,
just again like a testament to these.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, And I yeah, I mean I think that that's
incredible because I just think that, like it's it's hard
to make someone human if you can't see a human
on the page, right, like you know, like if if
if someone is just this kind of bombastic camp character,
it's kind of, at least for me, hard to locate
(24:14):
like the humanity in them. And so I think that, Yeah,
do you.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Think any of us do you think any of us
sort of knew in the moment I mean because looking back,
like I said, we just we were talking to Tony
about how we were talking about immigration and you know,
the HMO and all the things, and like we were
talking about like sort of what we would leave in
that in that time, Like what we did that was
(24:40):
sort of like we should probably leave that there or
you know, and the stuff that like you know that
can can carry through and most of I think so
far we've been like keep it, yes, like.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Kee keep fat Carrol. What do you mean? No, Fat
Carrol is one of my favorites. We're keet Carol. No,
just something like jokes, Yeah, like let's leave like eating disorders.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Fat Carol throwing up?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, but like keep the fact that they call her
fat Carol, not that she's a blimic. But yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
But did you do you think that we knew? I
mean I don't know, because I we talked about this
all the did you did you know at the at
the time we were sort of embarking on this you know,
cultural moment that that is still relevant today.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Talk about Rebecca being tranced, right, Yeah, that's like almost
twenty years ago, correct. You know, we introduced that character
season one boom and making people like accept it.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
This is what it is.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
That's character, and you're going to love her and you're
going to see her up your week.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
When you think about.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Betty like that, that sort of time in your life,
do you think it it's sort of informed you moving
forward or like have we like is there is there
sort of a thing where that was like a for me?
Obviously it started everything Like I was bartending when I
got Betty and Mark was six years old, so he
(26:35):
was a fetus, not even you know, Mark, like all
of us were just sort of, you know, like fledgling.
At this point, you were still like you were have
always been iconic since forever. So do you feel like
Betty was a sort of a flashpoint for you?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Betty was an example of just surrendering, you know. And
because again I kept pushing it away. I don't want
to do it. I don't want todo any pilots. It
came to me, all right, well we'll see whether it
gets picked up. It gets picked up. Then they say
we're moving into California. I said no. He told me
that I've got four kids, four different schools in New York.
He told me it's a New York show. That's why
(27:14):
I accepted it. I'm not doing it. Push it away again. Okay,
how can we make a deal. Well, okay, I'm flying
home every weekend to see my kids because they have
one in college, one in high school, one in middle school,
and one in Montessori. So I ended up first year,
you know, flying, I'm back and forth every weekend, missed
some of the parties.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
That that's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah. But and then but like just embraced Okay, this
is this is what's meant to be. And my kids
gave me the freedom, like, mom, you're great, do it.
They did. And also like great memories of like Sasha
moving around out there, her riding her scooter around.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
That's so funny, Like as a mom, Now I didn't
I I didn't even have that on my radar.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That that's what you were going through.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And to that point, I have to say, Vanessa, I
don't know if you'll even remember this, but season two,
I was pregnant.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I got I was pregnant.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I hadn't told anybody like I literally had told literally
no person on.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The planet except Noah. He was the only person who knew.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And you and I we were at Silver Cup and
this is so crazy.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
We were season.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Season two.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
We were telling oh, you're right, season three, season three,
sorry my bad, silver Cup.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And you I was like, first out the day.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
We were both groggy, like sleep in our eyes and
we meet in the hallway and you look at me
and you were like, oh.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I swear to God. And you were like you were.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Like, oh, how are you feeling? And I was like
I feel fine. You were like, well, good, congratulations and
I was like what And I was like, wait, what
not a witch?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
No for real, for real, I don't even know if
you remember this.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
And you were like congratulations, and I was like, bitch,
what I even literally told a single soul And I
don't know how you fucking knew, but you were like, awesome,
so glad, congratulations, And I was like, bitch, I'm fucking pregnant.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I haven't even told America.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
And you just looked at me and neew like for
real witch vibes. And also for everybody out there. She
threw me my baby shower like you were just.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
America's wedding at her house, at.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Her house, like you are a magic fairy of like blessings.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
But that's just family. That's family.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I swear to God.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
You also told me because Baaloma my daughter when she
was born, she was so like perfect and amazing, and
I was freaking out and I was just really nervous,
and we were working twenty two hours a day and
I just had I was on set.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It was a nightmare, and I was like, I don't know.
I think I'm going to ruin her.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
This is not good.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And you were like, she's such a perfect baby, she's
so wonderful, and who they are when they're born is
who they're going to be.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And god, damn it, Vanessa, if you aren't right, that
girl is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
And I think about those words all every I think about.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Those words, Vanessa so much. I cannot even tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And I still to this day quote you to all
the new.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Moms I know, forever and ever and ever amen, because
you were one hundred percent right.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
But I think that there's also this element that I
think that it is a through line with all of
our guests that were having on that were either actor
on the show are just just players on the show.
I think that you are just such an incredibly generous,
just person but also like man, like we're so lucky,
(31:15):
Like I just feel like and as someone that that,
as you described, was pushing away this experience to then
surrender and go all in and then be the most generous.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Well, we did have an incident right after we got
our Golden Globe nomination and we had to remind one
of our castmates be in America, how lucky we all
were to be in a show and not to wish
that away. Not naming any names, but there's one particular
(31:53):
carectur yes, which then he was in another show and
never like I don't want to be I should have
been doing this and whatever the other and you.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Know, yeah, and now it's like, well are we all
like amazing?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
That's this is because I don't know who you're talking
about because too young. But I'm gonna, but I'm gonna.
When we sign off, trust I do, I do.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Vanessa Williams, I reserve the right to bring you back
please on the pod for more of this, maybe for
a reunion, but we love you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
We really look forward to.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Reuniting on the reboot of the limited series for.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
We are just so just so incredibly grateful that you
took the time all the way in London. It is
it is really just God family, family so much.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Family is cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
And congratulations on your continued success. That's what we want.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That's right, we are doing. Where can we find you.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
On the socials at Vanessa the Williams Official on.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Instagram official bitches.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all the things.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
All the things, And if you are lucky enough to
be in London town, go and see her wreaking havoc
on the stage.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I'll be doing it definitely into the next year for no,
oh really plenty.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So then well I'll be in Paris and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I'm going then to Okay. We will see you.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
We'll see you there and we'll bring Ashley. We'll bring Ashley.
I love you so much. Thank you, so so very much, Vanessa.
You are an icon of goddess and and just everything.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Thank you, thank you you.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah bye bye.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well you guys lucky you've Vanessa Williams in the house.
I mean, doesn't get more iconic or better than.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
That shipper at midnight, it's.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Midnight for her and she just did she just did
two fucking shows.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, I mean that that's a really that's a big get.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And by the way, she still looked. She looked better
than both of us combined.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You're right, I know, and I hate and I hate
and I hate that fact because I'm thirty How old
am I thirty one? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
That bitch looks ridiculous and she is just what just
a class.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Joy and light and everyone that we have.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
How is it? How is how is it that we're
that that that every single guess that we've had in
this show.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Is its amazing?
Speaker 4 (34:55):
How is it.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
How we had not one Hollywood asshole on?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
No, one Hollywood asshole?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It's weird? Well, you know, I mean I would like
to bring one on. I'd like a change of pace,
you know what I mean, you're the asshole I know
about allest Maybe we should have a no Mark.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I think we're the Hello. I think we're the Hollywood asshole.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
We're not No, no, no, no, we're not Hollywood. We're just
asking No, We're just that, okay, Hollywood assholes. Okay, we
don't have the power to be holloween assholes. We're just assholes.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Okay, Love you guys. Ask any questions you want, Send
us all the emails.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, send us the emails at at Viva Betty podcast
on Instagram or email. Viva Betty pondage emails on what
you got, We love you, We'll.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
See a piece bite.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Viva Betty is a production of Propagate Content in partnership
with Iheart's and Mike podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
We're your hosts on Ortiz and Mark and Deelo Pato.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Our executive producers are Terry one Enberg, Lin Lee and
Diego Tapia.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Our senior producer is Emily Carr, and the show is
directed and edited by Mark Aagom.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
For more podcasts, listen to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome back to Viva Betty. How have you been fine?
I mean, I'm really excited about today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you excited?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm excited about Vanessa icon mother f ing Williams that
we somehow managed to get all the week from one
day down. We did promise you last week that you
were going to have an extended interview. You're getting it.
You're getting it right now.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
We're talking wigs. Oh god, we're talking drama. The devil words, Brana,
I don't even want to know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I don't know, roll the click.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Did you have any sort of vibe on Wilhelmine and
what it would mean to be sort of so as
a black woman, like playing the lead of not only
of a of a network show, but also as sort
of like this iconic and she wasn't at the point,
I mean, you made her such, but like just to
be this editor of this big fashion magazine. Was there
(01:16):
any sort of like what did you feel when you
were like, oh, I know this character or do did
you know this character?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Well? Well, Sylvia who was our creator, that's right, he
saw me, he loved me. And at Diva's Christmas Carol
where I play you know, iconic. Yeah, and uh so,
uh you know, she's throwing fits and he knew that
I could do the diva part of it. So that's
(01:43):
why I get her. I want her. She'll nail it.
And again, this is a pilot, that's right, pilot nobody
had like it was not there was no prototype or
what it wasn't so it wasn't you know er it
was just a whole new genre.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
That it didn't seem like anyone particular liked it or
wanted it.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, it kind of gave us the freedom might this
is fun, Wow, this would be cool. But you know,
and then we picked up that May I was like, okay,
let's get it on too. It was always like, what's
the next step. Let's see if we can get it on.
It's a Friday night, let me we can get it on,
you know. And then when we were at the TCA's
that the Television Critics Association, and we had to do
(02:25):
that panel that's right and doing interviews and all the
writers are like, this is the best thing that ABC has.
I hope you know that. And we were slotted for
like Friday night, you know, kind of not a throwaway but.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But not not not not.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, and in front of bras anatomy. I mean we
you know, we blew up because they valued what we
created in the in the.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Pilot, when Uglybody hit your desk, were you sort of
like I'm gonna I want to do this it like
I'm going to do this and I'm.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
To bring what about her?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Like like Willelmina, Like how did you sort of approach it?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Honestly, I never know what I am going to do.
You know, that's the first day on set. You don't
know what I mean. You think like I'll try to
do my best, but you're kind of figuring out. I've
got an approach and let's see whether it works. So
I it wasn't a calculated thing.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I mean I think amazing.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I was in dead.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I think with your first scene with Hot by the way,
so you.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Boobs hairs I'll toss on themselves, was like, okay, this
is a funday work.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
When Terry told us, when Terry told us that that
was your first scene, I was completely because I have
no idea. America's first scene was the photo shoot where
she's in the late latex, and your first scene was
You're in bed with Frind she by the way so
fucking hot, I mean, the two together, excuse.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Me, by the way, and I you know, the annoying
bit about this too is that all of you guys
look exactly the same and I'm the only one that
looks different. So the reboot's gonna look great? Am I
getting recasted? We can go back to twenty ten according
to the ways in which you all look. But oh
(04:20):
oh oh oh, we also do you know, we're obviously
talking about fashion.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
We get the fashion. So Season one is a little
weird for all of us.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Sure it was. It was an adjustment. But I want
to just talk about the pilot because one of my
favorite looks that has ever been on, like as far
as I've seen or that I can remember, is your
Versace suit the first time that we meet her. Do
you remember the white, the white with the with like
(04:54):
the gold kind of bell necklace like that versus I
think it was vers I.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Think it was, and it's fat Field.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was, yeah, in the pilot, in the pilot, and
I was just so, I mean, I was taken by
it for a myriad of reasons, but also because it
was gay. You're probably because of gay, you're gay. Probably
the gay stuff write that part. We didn't figure that
(05:26):
out yet. We're not there yet. The season three.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We had all figured it out.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
But I feel like it was because and I met
like no, because I I think that that for some
reason there was an overlap or something, or maybe she
wore in the like in one of the photos or something.
I just remember seeing you in it in person and
being like, that's a really beautiful woman.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Lynn had to tell you when you walked into the table,
Lynn was like, that's festival like like and I was like,
who was gagged? Lynn was absolutely gagged meeting you for
the first time.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
You remember Almo and Grouchland's Queen of Trash. Nowadays, all
these kids like aren't you in Hannah Montana. I'm like,
oh my god, it's amazing where people like all from.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, but are you getting any sort of Are you
getting any sort of you know, ugly betty love now?
Because they were, yeah, like, has that is that a
thing that like is recurring for you?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
It's so worldwide and I get a chance at the
stage or every night to like, you know, we love
to where are you from? Like Asia, Taiwan, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea.
Uh always uh, like Poland forgetuation to Magro rantsom Flora Spain.
(07:00):
I mean, it's Brazil, all Australia. It's been incredible the
reach that we we have in our and now that
it's on Netflix, forget it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yes, yes, and and that, and that was kind of
the impetus for the reason why we even started doing
this and like this rewatch is because of the Netflix
kind of thing, like where it was just like, oh wow,
you guys, you guys like this this TV show from
a long time ago. But I just I you know,
I really, I really feel strongly about the character of
(07:37):
will Amminislator being like a powerful black woman in power
because I think that part of the cultural aspect of
this podcast is talking about things that are extremely topical today.
We did cultural conversation.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Before it was like you know, like deragor like now
now everybody like we sort of like broke lot of
and I should say you broke a lot of.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I mean, we as a family did.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
On terms in the terms of like sort of the
immigration conversation, the healthcare healthcare conversation, what it what it
was to be sort of.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
A young brown woman in the workplace. But you were
sort of like a.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Black woman in position of power and sort of you
really your character spoke to sort of all of that,
because you had to sort of battle Bradford, and you
had to battle sort of nepotism and you know, the
rightful place of sort of your the woman that you
were being constantly sort of.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Passed over because and sit alone as a woman of
color in that space.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And so it was still such a plause.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And bossed it up. And so I don't know, I
guess I suppose the question is did that mean anything
to you at the time or looking back at it,
does it? What does it mean to you now?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Well, I luckily had examples to to model myself as
Susan Taylor, who ran Essence magazine for years, was a
great great uh you know, shero she had ran it
for years. She was smart and creative and she was
the epitome of black female excellence as an editor. So
(09:18):
that was kind of and also Andre Leon Talley, oh yeah,
style and uh and just knowledge. There were examples. So
it wasn't like ever been seen before.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I hadn't been seen on like network TV though, right,
Like that's the context in which we're we're asking too,
Like It's like, it's not that they didn't exist, it
was just for for people that had never seen.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Talking to Diane Carroll who was Plade Julia back in
the sixties and black nursers.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Had Dominique on Dynasty, pardon me exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
But in the sixties she single handedly integrated the union
because she was like, I'm a black woman, I need
my hairdresser to do my hair, and that say insisting
and getting her way. She made sure that she got
her black hairdresser on set to do her and she
(10:22):
integrated the union in just one, you know, one decision,
so that power move. Seeing those women just change the
game constantly, it was easy for me to kind of
make it a reality. It wasn't you know, it wasn't our.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Fat Speaking of which, so we've had a lot of
hair conversations.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Have you watched season one?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Have you like? Have you have you watched Uglyboddy like
season one recently or in any.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Not recently recently, but yeah, I've watched it, and I
mean there's some things out I don't even remember me
like when we do that what.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Was hilarious to me too. And we talked about this
with Terry all the time. Is when we.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
First started out, they gave us like because to your point,
like they just thought like, oh, it's a brown girl
as a lead, Like this is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And we had like four dollars to make you know,
we made a dollar out of fifteen cents.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And I had.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Literally like plastic like hair ponytails, like stuck on the
side of my head. Like I looked completely insane, and
you know, but then as the.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Show goes on, it gets a lot better.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
But like my and Betty's wig was a complete insane nightmare,
and you know, like and.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
You know, all of us looked so great, like we
looked amazing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
But it was so crazy to sort of like see
that evolution of like when they hate when they hated
us and didn't care about us until then we got
nominated and all of a sudden, we all looked everyone.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Look I was like breakfast. We didn't we didn't get
catered breakfast, and so we got the nominations.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I mean, it's just like but but but I I
suppose that what I'm saying is watching it for the
first time, I'm like, what's going on with everyone's hair?
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Well, that was another thing. So I don't remember our
Friday Nights. Friday Nights and the hair makeup trail. Yes, girls,
like someone's getting someone's walking off the plane and he's
done it.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
We called it Survivor trailer because when I tell you,
like we would it would be like a new fucking
team literally like every month, because we were all like,
we look like lunatics.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I need to talk about Michael Uri and and and
Vanessulay we did, and Mark and Whilhelmina because they're I
and and correct me if I'm wrong. The but you
like the character of Mark was not meant to only
be Yuri the entire time. And and that when as
(13:26):
soon as it like hit and your and your chemistry
kind of hit in the way that it did, which
seemed automatic, which I think that the two of you
have spoken about myriad times that you were like, oh no,
we're this is this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, how did that go down?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Exactly?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Well? In theory, Wilhelminia was supposed to hire so to
fire somebody every episode, so they would they would be
an assistant and they get fired and you have somebody new.
So we were doing the pilot and we did the
scene and like my my I'm in my leather Chay's
lounge and for my botox. Yes, Michael comes in with
(14:07):
the needle and he's like, oh my god, if is
there a way that if I give you and I
have some little leftover, let's do I do one of
my eyebrows and lead the other eyebrow up. So but
he was already he was like Schemia, like wouldn't it
be hilarious? Like genius and met her a friend of
and he went to Juilliard to like, this guy's brilliant,
(14:29):
and we just had immediate chemistry and and obviously I
respected his you know, Juilliard is amazing, his art, his education.
But also he was like, let's go for it. Let's
and that's again our cast. We were always like let's
try this, let's bounce this off each other at what
(14:53):
And then so that was hilarious, like, oh my god,
he's really funny. And then when I walk into the
big conference and he's following me, and I sit down
and slink into my chair and I see out of
my purple vision, he SLINKs down the exact same way,
in exact same tempo.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I'm like, okay, this is this?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, And when I called out from they were calling
you from, Mark, and he's like, all that stuff, all
that stuff came in the pilot.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I can't even tell you how much I say to
Mark on a daily I'm halaciously upset Mark.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yes, I'm hilaious. Was I was literally about to bring
that up. I feel like, you know, we we we
we talked so much about We talked so much though
about like those one liners and and and just kind
of those buttons and and stuff and I and I
think that the oh in the Halloween episode, uh, when
(15:51):
Mark dresses up as Betty and and Wilhelmina walks in
and she's like, Mark, what does she say?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
She said, I've never seen to the effect of like,
I've never seen anything so cruel.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Someone's getting a raised.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Me this.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I was just I was gagged because it's also just
it just reminded me so much too, like watching the
show too reminds me of how much fun we had
making the show as someone that has never seen it
like on screen before, but was there there is something
(16:31):
that just is so like palpable about watching it, being like, oh,
these these people are having a good.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Time because it was all happening in the moment. But
the the the chemistry that you had with Mark, you
also surprisingly had that with America. I mean there was
we just watched Trust, Lust and Must Yes. Yeah, and
you have a bunch of scenes. This is the this
is when Selma first comes in and and Betty tells
(16:58):
you that she's having the trouble with with Ignacio and
how she needs money and you you have the scene
where you like offer her the twenty thousand dollars and uh,
you know you're you're giving her this and no no
strings attached. But there was such chemistry between you and
America that was natural and amazing as well, like you
(17:19):
just whatever whatever scene partner you were given and I
and I think that holds true for any but we're
talking to you so but I think it was just
so incredible to watch, like you sort of go to
that vulnerable, vulnerable space. Because this is also where Nico
was sort of like nico One, as Mark likes to go.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh yeah, I call her nico One Nicoll Mark I
was like, who's that?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Mark is such a bitch, So so nico One, look,
look we're excuse twenty years later.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
We can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
We could be real when Nico went, but like, but
you have like you have, you know, that's the thing
is that you have. So you had that chemistry also
because you bully America, but you're also really Betty I
should say not America, but like you know, because you're
you have, but you had that chemistry with her as well,
and it was just so incredible to watch.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What what what did that feel like? On set?
Speaker 4 (18:24):
I think, you know, yes, we were, we are and
we're all talented, but it was almost like doing a
play where you're at a stage and you're really free.
That's what I love doing theater because you've got the
whole stage to make it different and make it new
every night, every performance weak because you're in charge of
(18:47):
your own and there was a freedom that we had
when we shot Ugly Betty. Even though we had guest directors,
we still have the freedom to kind of make it
our own and have our own relationships. And so it
wasn't a film and people were like, do it again,
try to like that, and so there was a freedom
that we had that I think made it all so
genuine and like almost in prov even though we had
(19:12):
scripted words. So the trust that we had back and
forth and and the respect made us a different unit.
It was almost like the show. I mean, like doing
a theater production every week, like what are we doing
this week? And so that really I think that those
(19:34):
dynamics gives you the ease and trust to trust your
other put.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And that the energy up.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, we've all had theater background, so.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's true, we all did.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I also forget about that. I mean most of us
were sort of New York theater actors, and so what
what the was I mean, this is a broad question,
so you might have more than one, but like give
us whatever you think of off the top of your head.
What was your favorite ugly betty sort of memory. I
(20:09):
know it's the one I want to back.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Up on most of the time is when I'm on
the rooftop with the bat baseball bats, smashing the mannequins,
Mick ter Nelly, our director smashing them and getting here
and then then Michael's got the the gong and he's
shaking shaking the thundersown like I mean, it's so camp.
(20:33):
It's like, could not be any more camp. It's just
like it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's and how do you know it?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Sorry?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
The continue and no, no, I just I want to
know how you navigate camp with with just keeping like
your feet firmly planted on the ground as the character though,
because I think that there are so many moments but
like that are also extra really grounded in reality, like
just as a performer.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Even just the episode that we watched where you're talking
to Nico and Nico one and you're having the sort
of there was yeah, you had so many sort of
like really grounded moments, but it was still like you're
still like naked under a fur coat and you know
what I mean, and sort of like yeah, like you
(21:24):
don't have grit. You need grit to get through this life.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Right, how do you how do you like, uh navigate
like the real with the absurd?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I suppose, uh, well, I mean I do think it's
on the page. Again, all of our writers have gone
on to have their own shows and do tremendously well.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So that's right exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Pers I know Terry's over there. You curated the best
writers of the time, so it was all on the
page and we could have fun and and and again
freedom like we didn't have like the writers saying oh
you said you said it wrong, do it again. That's
where we had this works better for me, Can I,
(22:05):
you know, trim this down or eliminate or can I
add this? And that also helped for me make my
my performance and willhelmina clearer like Mark became like, you know,
that was my signature thing that I came up with,
you know, and those kind of little nuggets of like, oh,
this would be fun, and then that works and the
(22:27):
writers write it in and it becomes consistent, and then
all of a sudden, you've got a character that people
recognize and love and you've got your kind of pattern.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And they write to it.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
I've always said that I think like that was something
that we were so lucky to have because I think
the more the writers got to know us, the more
they wrote to us. And so to your point, it
wasn't even really navigating between camp and reality. It was
like they were really writing to our strengths. And again,
to your point, we were not to toot.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Our own horn, but I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
We did have the capability of of having that sort
of comedy and drama and all of that within the
same moment. I think, you know, Becky Newton is is
in this last episode that we just watched. She's such
a clear indicator of that where she's sort of navigating
this relationship with Daniel where he's treating her like garbage
and she's trying to act like it's cool.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
But then the camera pans.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
To her after he sort of blows her off, and
you see her dejected face, and she was just so
brilliant in these ways.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
We have that with with v with the with her face.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Senator, Yeah, like just seeing you just sort of, you know,
trying to put this face on of being you know,
the good daughter, and then he, you know, is the
way he is and that sort of one look to
the camera you just don't need much and that's you know,
just again like a testament to these.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, And I yeah, I mean I think that that's
incredible because I just think that, like it's it's hard
to make someone human if you can't see a human
on the page, right, like you know, like if if
if someone is just this kind of bombastic camp character,
it's kind of, at least for me, hard to locate
(24:14):
like the humanity in them. And so I think that, Yeah,
do you.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Think any of us do you think any of us
sort of knew in the moment I mean because looking back,
like I said, we just we were talking to Tony
about how we were talking about immigration and you know,
the HMO and all the things, and like we were
talking about like sort of what we would leave in
that in that time, Like what we did that was
(24:40):
sort of like we should probably leave that there or
you know, and the stuff that like you know that
can can carry through and most of I think so
far we've been like keep it, yes, like.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Kee keep fat Carrol. What do you mean? No, Fat
Carrol is one of my favorites. We're keet Carol. No,
just something like jokes, Yeah, like let's leave like eating disorders.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Fat Carol throwing up?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, but like keep the fact that they call her
fat Carol, not that she's a blimic. But yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
But did you do you think that we knew? I
mean I don't know, because I we talked about this
all the did you did you know at the at
the time we were sort of embarking on this you know,
cultural moment that that is still relevant today.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Talk about Rebecca being tranced, right, Yeah, that's like almost
twenty years ago, correct. You know, we introduced that character
season one boom and making people like accept it.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
This is what it is.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
That's character, and you're going to love her and you're
going to see her up your week.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
When you think about.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Betty like that, that sort of time in your life,
do you think it it's sort of informed you moving
forward or like have we like is there is there
sort of a thing where that was like a for me?
Obviously it started everything Like I was bartending when I
got Betty and Mark was six years old, so he
(26:35):
was a fetus, not even you know, Mark, like all
of us were just sort of, you know, like fledgling.
At this point, you were still like you were have
always been iconic since forever. So do you feel like
Betty was a sort of a flashpoint for you?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Betty was an example of just surrendering, you know. And
because again I kept pushing it away. I don't want
to do it. I don't want todo any pilots. It
came to me, all right, well we'll see whether it
gets picked up. It gets picked up. Then they say
we're moving into California. I said no. He told me
that I've got four kids, four different schools in New York.
He told me it's a New York show. That's why
(27:14):
I accepted it. I'm not doing it. Push it away again. Okay,
how can we make a deal. Well, okay, I'm flying
home every weekend to see my kids because they have
one in college, one in high school, one in middle school,
and one in Montessori. So I ended up first year,
you know, flying, I'm back and forth every weekend, missed
some of the parties.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
That that's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah. But and then but like just embraced Okay, this
is this is what's meant to be. And my kids
gave me the freedom, like, mom, you're great, do it.
They did. And also like great memories of like Sasha
moving around out there, her riding her scooter around.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
That's so funny, Like as a mom, Now I didn't
I I didn't even have that on my radar.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That that's what you were going through.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And to that point, I have to say, Vanessa, I
don't know if you'll even remember this, but season two,
I was pregnant.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I got I was pregnant.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I hadn't told anybody like I literally had told literally
no person on.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The planet except Noah. He was the only person who knew.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And you and I we were at Silver Cup and
this is so crazy.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
We were season.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Season two.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
We were telling oh, you're right, season three, season three,
sorry my bad, silver Cup.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And you I was like, first out the day.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
We were both groggy, like sleep in our eyes and
we meet in the hallway and you look at me
and you were like, oh.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I swear to God. And you were like you were.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Like, oh, how are you feeling? And I was like
I feel fine. You were like, well, good, congratulations and
I was like what And I was like, wait, what
not a witch?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
No for real, for real, I don't even know if
you remember this.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
And you were like congratulations, and I was like, bitch,
what I even literally told a single soul And I
don't know how you fucking knew, but you were like, awesome,
so glad, congratulations, And I was like, bitch, I'm fucking pregnant.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I haven't even told America.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
And you just looked at me and neew like for
real witch vibes. And also for everybody out there. She
threw me my baby shower like you were just.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
America's wedding at her house, at.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Her house, like you are a magic fairy of like blessings.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
But that's just family. That's family.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I swear to God.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
You also told me because Baaloma my daughter when she
was born, she was so like perfect and amazing, and
I was freaking out and I was just really nervous,
and we were working twenty two hours a day and
I just had I was on set.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It was a nightmare, and I was like, I don't know.
I think I'm going to ruin her.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
This is not good.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And you were like, she's such a perfect baby, she's
so wonderful, and who they are when they're born is
who they're going to be.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And god, damn it, Vanessa, if you aren't right, that
girl is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
And I think about those words all every I think about.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Those words, Vanessa so much. I cannot even tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And I still to this day quote you to all
the new.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Moms I know, forever and ever and ever amen, because
you were one hundred percent right.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
But I think that there's also this element that I
think that it is a through line with all of
our guests that were having on that were either actor
on the show are just just players on the show.
I think that you are just such an incredibly generous,
just person but also like man, like we're so lucky,
(31:15):
Like I just feel like and as someone that that,
as you described, was pushing away this experience to then
surrender and go all in and then be the most generous.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Well, we did have an incident right after we got
our Golden Globe nomination and we had to remind one
of our castmates be in America, how lucky we all
were to be in a show and not to wish
that away. Not naming any names, but there's one particular
(31:53):
carectur yes, which then he was in another show and
never like I don't want to be I should have
been doing this and whatever the other and you.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Know, yeah, and now it's like, well are we all
like amazing?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
That's this is because I don't know who you're talking
about because too young. But I'm gonna, but I'm gonna.
When we sign off, trust I do, I do.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Vanessa Williams, I reserve the right to bring you back
please on the pod for more of this, maybe for
a reunion, but we love you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
We really look forward to.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Reuniting on the reboot of the limited series for.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
We are just so just so incredibly grateful that you
took the time all the way in London. It is
it is really just God family, family so much.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Family is cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
And congratulations on your continued success. That's what we want.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That's right, we are doing. Where can we find you.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
On the socials at Vanessa the Williams Official on.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Instagram official bitches.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all the things.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
All the things, And if you are lucky enough to
be in London town, go and see her wreaking havoc
on the stage.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I'll be doing it definitely into the next year for no,
oh really plenty.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So then well I'll be in Paris and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I'm going then to Okay. We will see you.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
We'll see you there and we'll bring Ashley. We'll bring Ashley.
I love you so much. Thank you, so so very much, Vanessa.
You are an icon of goddess and and just everything.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Thank you, thank you you.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah bye bye.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well you guys lucky you've Vanessa Williams in the house.
I mean, doesn't get more iconic or better than.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
That shipper at midnight, it's.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Midnight for her and she just did she just did
two fucking shows.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, I mean that that's a really that's a big get.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And by the way, she still looked. She looked better
than both of us combined.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You're right, I know, and I hate and I hate
and I hate that fact because I'm thirty How old
am I thirty one? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
That bitch looks ridiculous and she is just what just
a class.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Joy and light and everyone that we have.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
How is it? How is how is it that we're
that that that every single guess that we've had in
this show.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Is its amazing?
Speaker 4 (34:55):
How is it.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
How we had not one Hollywood asshole on?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
No, one Hollywood asshole?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It's weird? Well, you know, I mean I would like
to bring one on. I'd like a change of pace,
you know what I mean, you're the asshole I know
about allest Maybe we should have a no Mark.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I think we're the Hello. I think we're the Hollywood asshole.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
We're not No, no, no, no, we're not Hollywood. We're just
asking No, We're just that, okay, Hollywood assholes. Okay, we
don't have the power to be holloween assholes. We're just assholes.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Okay, Love you guys. Ask any questions you want, Send
us all the emails.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, send us the emails at at Viva Betty podcast
on Instagram or email. Viva Betty pondage emails on what
you got, We love you, We'll.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
See a piece bite.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Viva Betty is a production of Propagate Content in partnership
with Iheart's and Mike podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
We're your hosts on Ortiz and Mark and Deelo Pato.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Our executive producers are Terry one Enberg, Lin Lee and
Diego Tapia.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Our senior producer is Emily Carr, and the show is
directed and edited by Mark Aagom.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
For more podcasts, listen to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.