Episode 42: Nets-Sixers Game 4 Reactions + What’s Next For the Nets?

Chris is joined by his radio partner Tim “The Capper” Capstraw and analyst Sarah Kustok to review the final game of the Nets’ series against the Philadelphia 76ers. Then, they discuss how the team can move forward from a very eventful season.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, what's going on. It's Chris Carino.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is the voice of the NETS podcast, the Baggie
Day edition, as we clean out our lockers from the
twenty two to twenty three season and look back on
what was, what is, and what will be? And to
do that, who better to turn to than my radio partner,
NETS analyst for over two decades, Tim Kapstraw and of

(00:34):
course the fantastic Yes analyst on NETS broadcasts for nearly
a decade as well. Right now, she's been with us
every day since the team moved to Brooklyn. And is
the great Sarah Coustakkus and the Kapper joining us?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh well, I like that and the car took a show.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, I'm honored.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
I'm honored to be on with both of you. You've
done a tremendous job throughout the course of this postseason
recapping each game, setting us up for them. I just
see Capper. I wish I wish we had another one.
I wish I wish we had more. I wish we
had more. I wish I was previewing rather than reviewing.

Speaker 6 (01:11):
Yes, and we should be getting ready to drive to Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, And I said I was disappointed, not that I
was disappointed not to be working with the Kapper, but
I would Game five, I would have been on TV
with Sarah. So I was very disappointed not to have that.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
That ride with you there, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
And the great thing about when you when you I
got a chance out to go back and do some
TV this year.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
And the great thing about when you work.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
With Sarah is, especially at Barkley Center games, is that
people just bring her candy.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
And as you know, that is the way to Sarah's heart.
It's just bring candy.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's also a way to stomach ache during the game
because it's just constant. You don't realize how much you're eating.
But anyway, we digress, So let's get into it. Let's
get into this. And we're not going to hand out grades.
I don't, I don't. We're not going to do that.
We're not going to do the you know, keep them
or cut them kind of lists or anything like that.
But we're just gonna have a conversation about this season

(02:09):
that was and what's going on and where we're going
from here. And listen, we've been through so many crazy seasons,
but I don't know if anything reached the level of
this season.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
If you go back to the off season and I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
And it starts in the off season, I'm genuinely excited,
and we'll get into what's going to happen this offseason.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
But when you think of where we started back in
you know.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
With the the things that came up in the off season,
to where we finished, I mean, it really does feel
like it was more than one season, doesn't it, Harry.
It feels like we we went through about four seasons
this season at least.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
And I think throughout the course of it you Ti
I did. I will at least say forgot the different
iterations that you went through, because it is about in
the course of a season, continuing to move move forward,
how much change occurred and how much change to your
point back in the off season, to think about the
Kevin Durant trade request, to think about the circumstances with

(03:15):
Kyrie Irving. As you move forward into the season, I
can recall it feels like yesterday I was sitting at
media Day. I don't know if it feels like yesterday
or ten years ago, but sitting at media day, what
the roster looked like, the expectations, the hope, and of
course everything that followed, including some really really high moments,

(03:36):
the wind streak, the stretch where what the next one
eighteen and two and they looked like a world beater,
and the runaway favorites to contend for a title, And
obviously I need to document all that followed, but to
think about the point where we're at here today, there
certainly is a lot to pick apart, a lot to
die sect, and a lot to consider as you get

(03:57):
set for another offseason.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
You mentioned that stretch of you know, eighteen and two
and that stretch where it looked like they were contenders.
I think that kind of summed up the last three years.
You know, in going in the Harden Durant Kyrie, there
were glimpses, there were weeks where it looked like it
was going to work, and I think that was the frustration,

(04:22):
you know, it was it just never could It just
never could be sustained. So when you go back now
where we are, you know, let's just touch on what
ended up happening, because you go through it. When it
was that eighteen and two stretch you're talking about, Sarah,
it looked like gues that was going to be it,
like that team, you know, probably was a version of

(04:46):
the team that got swept by the Celtics last year,
only better. You know, you had players like Royce O'Neill
coming into the fold. Nick Claxton's playing at another level.
He was an afterthought a year ago, so you think
and yeah, with this crew man, they're ready to go.
And then, of course we know it ends with the
Durant injury, which was another common refrain. You know, it

(05:09):
was all going well and then Durant got injured. That's
that's happened. That was that happened a few times. And
then Kyrie Irving is finally seems to get it. He's
playing incredibly well at an all NBA level, and then
he decides to ask out. And now you get to
a point where suddenly the Nets make those moves and
Capper probably.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
The the the.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Hall they got back for those players has set themselves
up now to have an interesting you know, postseason coming
up here and off season.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, and that's what.

Speaker 6 (05:46):
That's what you've got to evaluate right now. And they
have simile, they have some some options. I don't know
what's best. I think there's multiple different ways they can go.
But the fact that they've given themselves in a really
difficult time. They gave themselves some flexibility right now, I
think was just a very very good job in a

(06:08):
difficult situation.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
So let's let's get a little more structured here. Let's
go back to the playoff series. Let's analyze what we
saw in the Sixer series, and now how that has
you thinking about this team. It seemed on paper and
with all the pundits the Nets did not have a
chance against the Sixers, and it worked out to be

(06:30):
a four game sweep. But for you know, aside from
the first game, you know the Nets had a chance,
and you could make a case in all three games,
Games two, three, and four, the Nets should have won
those games. They were in a position at some point
for a stretch of that game where you did feel
like they were going to win the game. So, Sarah,
when you look back on the series, what stood out

(06:52):
to you about this Net group that gave them a
chance and maybe things could have worked out differently.

Speaker 5 (07:00):
I think the thing that stood out most is that
one you have a group of individuals that you want
to root for, that want to play for one another,
that are unselfish, and they are players that want to
do whatever's best to win. However, so many of the
areas in which they struggled or areas that they got

(07:22):
hurt against this Philadelphia team, to me, felt like a
lot of correctable areas, which added to the frustration. I
think many players and you could point the bridges out
of the gates, you know, taking on different roles, larger roles,
more responsibility, and that kind of trickled down the line.
But I think for as much as the Nets did

(07:44):
an excellent job with dealing with some of whether the
demands the circumstances that occurred leading into the trade deadline,
there were still very big gaps within the course of
this lineup, and one of those was in the front court.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
One of those was fortifying how to take care of
the glass.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
One of those was what are you going to do
when you face a big I think most notably you
look at the top teams in the Eastern Conference, but
no question you look at Philadelphia and Okay, how do
you handle Joel Embiid And so going into the series,
what the Nets were able to do and how they
structured their defensive game plan to start with things, I

(08:24):
think it also lended themselves to a lot of vulnerabilities
in the areas of which they may have weaknesses, and
so as you went throughout the course of the series,
the opportunity to make adjustments, what adjustments were and were
not made, it allowed the Sixers to continue to thrive.
And I think the Sixers, you could point to Joel Embiid,
you can point to Tyres Maxi.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
He's a player who.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
Has continued to flourish in front of our eyes, you know,
in his third year, just how he continues to grow.
But all of that also was off The foundation of
Philadelphia was deep, and their bench helped a lot. The
second unit of players that came in there was guys
that Doc Rivers were able to utilize in areas that
I think hurt the Nets. And when the Nets had

(09:09):
those opportunities, when they may have had leads or they
could go on runs, whether it was turnovers, whether it
was giving up offensive rebounds, all of those things tended
to be at some of the worst moments. The catapulted
a Philadelphia team who believes they themselves are contenders, and
so it was not an easy match. It was not
an easy matchup, but I think some of the uncertainty,

(09:30):
whether with lineup combinations, rotations for Jack Vaughan, with the
short runway, with the new players and new group those
players getting accustomed to one another, and maybe each of
those players playing a larger role, having more responsibility than
what they did in the past. I think in many cases,
that's where they faltered, and that's where those gaps that
were so narrow and a small margin of error already,

(09:54):
I think that's where it widened.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Cavra, I mean, we talked about it on radio numerous times.
Seem like a lot of the things that popped up
during the course of the regular season, inability to close
out games, inability to keep teams off the offensive glass,
these are all things that did rear themselves, you know,
rear their heads at the worst possible moments. As you
were saying, Sarah, I mean, we talk about all the time,

(10:18):
you've got to go out and win playoff games.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
You know, they don't give you playoff games. You have
to go out and win them.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
So when you've got a chance to keep a team
off the offensive glass, when you've got a chance to
make one of those threes that just changes the energy
in the building. You've got to go out and do
those things and they just didn't do those things in
the series.

Speaker 6 (10:37):
Yeah, there were too many times when they are open
threes or available threes that when they even when they
were playing well, maybe they're up five or six or
seven and it could have gotten to nine or ten.
Those were the ones that it said, oh, that would
give them great separation, because you knew you needed a
bit of a pad going down to.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Stretch of these games.

Speaker 6 (11:00):
The amazing thing to me was say, and obviously this
group needs to rebound the ball better. You you need
to bring in some toughness and some rebounding, I'm sure,
and maybe adjust some of the schemes you do defensively.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
But the Nets actually played good enough defense and even
with the lack of rebounding, probably good enough to win.

Speaker 6 (11:24):
Maybe you know, three of the games, may not all four,
but three of them. And I'll go back to that,
and now I'll go to the offensive side of the floor.
It's just I just think there's a difference between the
there's a big gap between the really great players in
the NBA and the pretty good players and the good players.
And I think you saw that with the seventy six ers.

(11:49):
I mean, they were able to go in their Game
four to a guy who's maybe now considered their fourth
best option than Tobias Harris, and he could own the
game for big portions of that game. I do think
the Nets did everything there. They're a great team to watch,
they have interesting parts. But that talent thing does matter

(12:10):
and how you're going to get to that level of
ability that you can, especially in the playoffs, because you
get bogged down often and you spend to see a
lot of these teams targeting guys, and when you target guys,
it slows you down. Well, if you target a guy,
slow down and then can't can't, can't go at the
guy or make a play for yourself for teammates, then

(12:33):
your offense gets very, very stale. So I am just
curious where you go with the You know, we just
talked about defense and rebound. We know that offensively, how
can this team continue to evolve. I think it's got
it's got to get some additional help.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
You know, we talked about how when this team came
together after the All Star after the All Star break,
after the trade deadline, there were a lot of really
players to have defensive reputations, you know, the kind of
players that you put on the other team's best player
to try and slow them down, right, So we looked
at it. We looked at guys like mckel Bridges and

(13:13):
Dorian Finney Smith and Royce O'Neill and Cam Johnson and
even Spencer didn when he's got good size for you know,
in a plus defender at his position. And we saw
Nick Claxton being a defensive Player of the Year candidate
this year and we thought, Wow, if anything, this team's
going to be able to really defend people. And the

(13:36):
metrics didn't show that in the last two months of
the season. I was a bit surprised at that. You know,
I always felt that, if anything, this team's gonna be
able to defend people. And listen in the playoffs, like
you mentioned kaepern for you know, those there were three
games there where the nets have you said they're going
to hold the Sixers to hundred, one hundred and five points,
like you're gonna have a chance. You know, we knew

(13:57):
they'd struggle a little bit offensively. I just I Verrish
Sarah saw them play defense at the level that we
thought they were going to be able to play.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
I agree, see, but I'll keep it simplistic and I
don't know if this crosses all the games or all
the plays or all the possessions, but there's two things
with that that stand out to me most, which I
would lend itself to. Why One is anytime you're doing
something new, whether it's schematically, how you want to play,
who you're playing next to the nuances of that.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
You both know this because you see.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
It all the time, and it maybe the expectation for
this wouldn't be that it it lasted as long as
it did. Defensively, you can't think you've got to be reacting,
and you've got to be reacting before while you're watching
a play develop and the instincts, the instinctual nature that
comes with that, if you want a pressure, if you
want to disrupt, if you want to shoot the gaps,

(14:52):
all of these things that Jagvan was asking of these
players and how they played, to me, that's if you're
still thinking about what you want to do, thinking about
your scheme.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Is this guy going to make a read like it's not?

Speaker 5 (15:06):
For as much as you want to talk about, oh,
this team switches one through five or this is what
we're running, or when personnel wise, you still there's gray
in all situations and every team, every offense is trying
to counter the things you're doing defensively, so there's still
decision to be made that I think that's why it
matters in the preseason. That's why it matters as you

(15:27):
go through the course of the season to have a
feel of what a guy's going to do when or Okay,
we're going to switch on this player, but we're going
under on all of that stuff. And I think when
there's that many new players added to the mix, one
that makes that really challenging. And I think that was
exposed and I think secondly we saw it. To me,
the rebounding component is the biggest part of that because

(15:50):
when you're switching, when you're in rotation, when you're out
of position, it makes it even harder to make sure
you're finding a guy and getting someone out. And I
think it was identified by all of these other teams
and the scouting and the personnel that's an area of
weakness for the Nets. So not only are we going
to try and exploit it, but we're sending extra guys in.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
Normally we're not.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
That's a Philadelphia, They're not a team that got a
lot of offensive They're an excellent shooting team, Don't get
me wrong, Like, was there a lot of rebounds to
be had throughout the course of the year. No, they're
first and three point percentage, third and field goal percentage. However,
Doc Rivers and that coaching staff said, oh, they don't
defensively rebound really good. So we're going to crash every
PJ every single time to bias, tyrese whoever we're on

(16:36):
the floor. And that is something that you never saw
them do throughout the course of the regular season.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
So I think that adds into the.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
Feel and obviously the results of a defense of you
may get one stop, you may get the initial stop,
but when you're consistently not then finishing off a defensive possession,
the numbers start to look really bad.

Speaker 6 (16:56):
It's a great call, It's exactly you know. That's the
biggest thing you give up when you're a switching defensive
team is rebounding. Everybody think it's the matchup that guy
will beat you off to dribble. Huh, that's a big
deal too, But the number one issue you have if
you're going to completely switch is rebounding. And what happened

(17:16):
is putting this team together elit is. It remembers Jacque
Vaughan was trying to play at times, allowing Cam Johnson
and mcal Bridges doing what they always did in Phoenix
by staying with their guys on a high ball screen
and telling Nick Claxon to get back. But there was
that created confusion, and it came back to remember the

(17:39):
first time they played Philadelphia on February eleventh, and nobody
knew everybody. It was first time they were together at
the Barkley Center, and they just played and they switched
everything and they were better at that. And I think
Jacques Vaughn had no choice but to, hey, let's do
simple better. That's what he'd keep going back to all

(17:59):
the time. And I think defensively, that's why he had
to go to that, why he had to stay with that,
why he really didn't have a great zone defense. You
know they did never you see some teams get You
saw the Sixers give the Nets problems in their zone,
but the Nets weren't really organized defensively in their zone.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
You couldn't really go to that.

Speaker 6 (18:19):
I do think the adjustment, though, of what they did
to Embiid will be interesting to watch the rest of
the play the next series. Will the Boston Celtics be
playing very similar defense to the Nets, But yeah, you know,
as far as doubling Embiid, the difference will be that
they won't do it all the time, but I think

(18:39):
they will sprinkle it in and mix it up. The problem,
jockad is that you couldn't be that cute with these guys.
You didn't have that many options. You never had a
training camp.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, and you go back to I thought one of
the more significant games of the season was the game
in Boston when they were down twenty eight points, came
back and won the game. They kind of switched up
what they were They kind of you know, Jacques had
been trying to put Nick Clackson a little bit more drop,
but they were trying to be a little more sophisticated
with their defensive schemes. And they were down twenty eight

(19:16):
in the first half, and they kind of went in
the locker room and said, all right, you know what,
forget it, scrap it. Let's just go back to the
way we played that first game against Philadelphia, when we
didn't know each other, when we weren't trying to do
anything sophisticated, and just go out there and play instinctively,
and you know, they went on a run after that.
They won a bunch of games after that, and you know,
it ended a losing streak, and it was one of

(19:38):
probably the best wins. I think probably the two best
wins this year were the comeback in Boston and the
win in Miami late in the season when you thought
that was going to be significant. I'm talking about with
the group that they had in the last two months.
There were other, you know, good wins early in the season,
but that feels like it's ancient history and we don't
even need to go over that.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
But I do think I mean, I.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Was just pointing out the numbers being poor defensively and
probably that's why they didn't have as much regular season success.
They seem to have better success in the postseason defensively
with that group. But I do think like the offseason's
big because Nick Claxton is one of those He's a
rare player in that he's such a good rim protector

(20:24):
and can change a lot of shots. But at the
same time, his strength is being able to get out
on the perimeter and guard one through five, so he's
not as comfortable dropping and being a rim protector. He
wants to go out and switch. So do the Nets
need to have a traditional rim protector type to play

(20:51):
with Nick Claxton or do they have to teach him
to be more of just a guy who will stay
more in the paint and that will will sort of
you know, we see how Embiid was such a factor,
not in his blocking shots, but in the fact that
you just never felt like you could penetrate the paint

(21:11):
because Embiid is patrolling out there. Does Nick have to
be that guy that sort of just deters you from
getting in the paint because now you're not switching with him,
or he's not playing out of the perimeter. But that
might help you rebound if he's back, it might help
you take away drible penetration, which has been a big
problem with this team. So I'm curious to see the
direction that you have to go now with Nick Claxton.

Speaker 6 (21:35):
I think what you got to do in the NBA
is you got to be good at not more than
one thing. You know, you gotta be good at Okay,
you're switching, okay, and when we say you're gonna play
and drop, well, you got to be good at that too.
And if we tend to go to the zone, well,
be good at that. You want to be a good
defensive team, be good at everything, and do it with
an edge and attitude and an aggression and know exactly

(21:57):
what you're doing all the time. Predictability makes it easy
for them, easier for the offense, and you've got to
be careful with that.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
And I think I think.

Speaker 6 (22:06):
The nets need and need a little flexibility on that
side of the floor. Again, come with extra time to
be able to get your team together.

Speaker 5 (22:15):
Capprice just said it, and twofold I was thinking that.
See as you were talking one talking about pulling Nick
Claxon out on the perimeter.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
He can, he is very good at that.

Speaker 5 (22:25):
But you can't tell me that Opponents are like, oh, well,
if we force this switch and bring up Nick's guys,
he's gonna he's gonna switch off, and all of a
sudden we have their big who is a rim protector
pulled out in the perimeter. That not only affects you
with your protection in the print, but also with your rebounding.
So that to me is add on to the factor
of why there's defensive struggles. And to Caper's pointings you

(22:47):
got to do it all, and you have to have
options and optionality, and whether it is with Nick and
Nick being able to okay, sometimes we're going to switch.
Sometimes we're going to plane you in the drop. Sometimes
we're gonna you know, off of ball screens, how you
play that, where you want to be at the level
of the screen or what you want to do, But
also who else is there? And give credit Dayron Sharp,

(23:07):
though he didn't see a lot of time later in
the series, when he got some run and got some minutes,
I thought he did a really solid job. But there
had never really been with this group at the later
part of the season that type of option as a
second big with Nick, whether to play alongside him or
to back him up. The next did a tremendous job
as we saw on many occasions of Dorian Finney Smith
or Royce O'Neil playing in that five spot, going small

(23:30):
though long along all positions. But I think to Capper's point,
like those are the if you want to be an
excellent defense, those are the type of things you need
to have because in a playoff series, you got to
make changes, you got to show different lets.

Speaker 6 (23:44):
Exactly, but it almost it almost proved that they could
do that because the putting together. They had a few
days to put together their trapping defense of Joel Embiid
and look what they did. I mean, they were able
to do that and be able to adjust and make
those types of adjustments defensively and then at times they
play it straight up, they mix it up. They have
the capability of that to be an elite defensive team.

(24:06):
Or what you were saying, Chris, how can you get
Claxon more around the basket?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
I think while you teach him it.

Speaker 6 (24:12):
And and then you hold it, hold everybody accountable, and
probably need another player in that position. Also doesn't have
to be the skill level of Nick Claxon, but if
you're going to go to another big you probably got
to be a guy that can patrol the.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Paint with with with size.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
And also ability to rebound the basketball and the drop coverage.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
On the other side of the ball.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Now we know that the issue came up, especially late
there in the playoff series, is when you have a
lead and you're trying to close out a game. I mean,
we just seen the Nets go into these scoring droughts
with this group that would that would just destroy him
and and let the other team come back, take away
big deficits. It would inhibit the Nets ability to come
back in games. When you look at the team offensively,

(24:59):
and and this will be you know, analyzing what happened
and looking forward to what you need to go what
was missing from the Nets offensive attack? You know, we
know guys like Michel Bridges jumped up to another level
scoring the ball, but what was aside from missing a
lot of open threes? What was missing though even late

(25:19):
in the season, Sarah, from you in your perspective from
the the offensive attack of this team and how that
makes you think about going forward.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
Getting to the rim like I was, you know, Game four,
getting to the rim, getting to the basket, and whether
you are getting a layup, getting filed force and help
dumping it off to your big penetrating kickout. That changes
the dynamic of how you're playing offensively when you can
get into the paint and be a rim pressure type offense.

(25:52):
And they didn't have enough of that in Spencer Dinwoodie
is the one guy who could do that and whether
he did it enough or not. And I also think
this team was built and predicated on three point shooting
or this group and I understood jag Van wanted high
volume three point shooting, and you can understand why with
a roster littered with three point shooters. But in the

(26:14):
event you are struggling from three to continue putting up
threes and steadily just shooting three point shots are never
one to me as a three point shooter who's been
in slumps and.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
Been missing shots.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
And Ben, you got to get to the rim, you
gotta get an easy basket, you gotta get a feel.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
You have to multiple people that can do it on
the floor at the same time. Yeah, John talked about
that in one of his press conferences toward the end,
was like, we need multiple guys that can get to
the rent.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
And exactly and not just want to be threats of that.

Speaker 5 (26:45):
And then I would also, you know, say that this
is I always am going to circle this back to rebounding.
This is a team that wanted to run. They thrive
when they got early offense. You create some easy looks. Well,
how does that that comes from getting stops, getting a
quick rebound, and pushing the basketball. So if you're constantly
struggling at times with your defensive rebounding, I think to

(27:07):
me that everything is hand in hand, So it's factoring
into the rhythm, the flow, and how you want to
play on the offensive side.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
You know, we start looking at the season in general,
some of the things that have happened, we've just gone
over now the things you want to see offensively, defensively,
broke down the sixer series and now starting to move forward.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
It did start earlier.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
I mean, obviously the coaching change and the trade have
now set you up for the future. I think let's
just spend a few minutes here on Jacques Baughn and
I think that obviously you can go over things that
happen in the postseason and strategy and you can nitpick things,

(27:53):
but I'm not talking about that. But early in the year,
you know, I think about that's one of the events.
And what was a very eventful season is that the
question of Steve Nash being around kind of kind of
reared its ugly head in the off season, and then
the team got out to a bad start and they

(28:14):
made the change to Jacque Vaughan. But initially it was
going to be a temporary change. It was just going
to be an interim coach. And then we know there
were some other names that were thrown out there and
some backlash, and ultimately they settle on Jacque Vaughn. And
I think that's what they kind of did. They settled
on Jacquvaughn. But then a funny thing happened. When you settle,

(28:36):
then you realize, wait a minute, maybe this wasn't settling.
Maybe this is the guy all along, that's the right
guy for the job, and they gave him the extension,
and now he is, you know, at least he's got
some you know, uh security for Jacques going forward, and
he seems to be their guy now that's going into
the offseason. He's going to be your coach next year.

(28:57):
I mean, unless something crazy happens, he's going to to
be your coach. But I thought that from a standpoint
of where this organization was. The coach has got to
answer the questions every day. The coach has got to
be the face of the franchise. He's got to answer
questions that may be more suited to ask ownership where
the general manager during the course of the season, but

(29:19):
he's up there sometimes twice a day answering those questions.
And Jacque won until the bitter end this year, until
the team got swept. Always looked like he was fresh
as a daisy and ready to attack the day when
he got up there and faced the media.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
And maybe that's not all. You know, it's not always going.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
To be pie in the sky ted Lasso, we believe
and you can get it going. But for the most part,
that's what the NETS franchise is needed. They needed sunshine
on a cloudy day a lot of times because it
really was a dark place they were in when Jacques
took over, and the Kyrie Irving suspension was happening and
all this kind of stuff, and it just seemed like,

(30:00):
you know, I just walked out of the room every
day pumped up and ready to go. And I think
that's exactly what Jacques Bonn provided this organization. I mean,
there's nobody to me that's more a Sunshine personified than
Jacques Bonn, other than Sarah Coustack.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
So I'll let Sarah kind of speak to that.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Let's see. I appreciate that, and I think that's to
everything you said. I echo.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
I think that's precisely what this team needed, especially through
all the tumultuous situations and circumstances they dealt with. And
I think that also is in many cases, we see
so many of these new players, whether it's bridges, we
know that about Royce, O'Neil, Dori and Phinney Smith.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
You know, list goes on. That's also their personality and
their character.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
But I think this is going to be a really
great opportunity depending what happens, and know we're getting into
it in terms of the roster, roster additions, subtractions, what
it looks like through the summer with an opportunity for
a training camp, what that looks like.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
We've talked about areas of adjustment.

Speaker 5 (31:09):
We've talked about the changes they come when you're coaching
and playing and planning for a regular season and a
regular season game as opposed to a playoff series. And
ultimately at some point, how the nets look and how
the roster looks. That's what it's going to be about.
It's going to be determined in the postseason. But I
think for Jock Vaughan, he resonates with the players because

(31:30):
of that and how he shows up, how he approaches
each day. So the opportunity for him to be able
to go through a summer league and go through an
offseason and have his training camp said, and what that
looks like to me, is going to be very exciting
to see what that looks like for him now, having
that type of opportunity, because that changes how you're going

(31:51):
to coach and how you're going to run and structure
your team.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
It never felt like you're right, Chris.

Speaker 6 (31:57):
I just was always so impressed with his just his demeanor,
his overall demeanor towards everyone, the fact that he immediately
knew all the media members' names, the way he addressed them,
the smile on his face. The moment didn't seem too
big for him, and I think they made the adjustment
to have him the interim coach for a while.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Then started adding up things and.

Speaker 6 (32:19):
Saying, wait a second, when we had this guy in
the bubble, the players responded like this, when we've seen
him like this, he's carried himself with this type of
dignity and optimism, and you know, we watch him with
the players now and strategically and all that. Hey, listen,
this is the guy. He's really really deserved it. He's

(32:42):
got a nice opportunity, and yet he'll be like every
other coach in the NBA right now, they're all good, right,
and then it's like it's a challenge, and you've got
to be able.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
To consistently have success.

Speaker 6 (32:56):
And yet I'm with you, guys, say, boy, you know,
give him a full year and give him a training camp,
give him a full season and got a few more players,
and let's see what happens.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
And I also think that you know, he's shown the
ability to you know, talk about having having to have
two way players a lot of times. We got into
this specialized coaching thing a while back, where all right,
this guy is a developmental coach that can coach young
players and get get a group going, or well, we
need another guy who's gonna be able to relate to

(33:27):
star players if we have a star driven team seq bond.
You mentioned CAPA the bubble I mean the bubble nets
were uh an under you know we're an overachieving group.
I mean that was a group where the stars didn't
play and guys were out and Job showed the ability
to jump in there.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
And and and and be able to coach those guys.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
And then remember when things were going well this year,
think of how he got to Kyrie Irving and Kyrie
Irving that jump he made after Durant went down the
team struggle for a little bit, and they were on
the West coast trip and he was able to break
through to Kyrie Irving. And you had that uh promising
game in Phoenix where they almost they almost came back
big in the fourth quarter. And then Kyrie came back

(34:11):
the very next night and had a huge game against
Utah and and they win, and they go on a
little run there and that kind of sparked Kyrie and
eventually led to him asking for a trade and they
end up, you know, forcing the rebuild on the fly.
But I feel like Jacques has had that ability to
you know, he was he was a guy that got
through to Durant, he got through to Kyrie Irving. He

(34:32):
also coached teams that did not have star players. And
I think you need that. I think you this way
you build, you know, Sean Marks always talked about building
a culture and then sometimes your your culture has to
be able to withstand different personalities coming in and out.
But at the top you've got to have some stability
and it ability to go different directions while still maintaining

(34:57):
your culture. And I thought the Nets did a great
job aast couple of months of the season, and you
touched on it Sarah about high character guys coming in.
I mean mckel bridges and Cam Johnson were at a
school in Brooklyn that the day after they showed up
in Brooklyn, and that hadn't happened before in a while.
And I just feel like there was a shift of

(35:19):
the burrow. The organization, the community was first, and then
everything else falls into place. And to me, that's a culture.
That's a culture, and I think Jacques One set the
tone for that, and I think Sean Marx tried to
bring in players that would fit into that. I just

(35:43):
thought it was a remarkable cultural sea change in a
very short period of time.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
And I think that's why there's optimism for the future,
not just about Jack Von having a training camp, not
just about There is a multitude and layered of reasons
and areas and players that you point to that say, Okay,
this gives an optimism. I think four NETS fans the
big adjustment and why it is a challenge and why

(36:12):
it is hard after this.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Year that has felt like.

Speaker 5 (36:16):
Multiple seasons, is because the shift in the ultimate goal,
the shift in expectations goes from a championship caliber team
to what does a team look like as you build
towards that in years to come, and I think, if
you're being realistic about it, in what the roster could
look like until changes are made at this current point

(36:40):
with this group as they headed into this postseason looking
to really push this seventy six ers team in the
first round, that was the big change and the adjustment
from the expectations you had with the prior group to
the expectations of this group despite having a lot to
be optimistic about, and of course a lot of positives
that came from how in which a very tough situation

(37:04):
was handled and turned into what it is at this point.

Speaker 6 (37:08):
And that's why I'm interested and excited at watching what
goes on in the next several months and really in
the next couple of years, because I think this is
what management has proven to.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Do very well.

Speaker 6 (37:21):
Listen, when when Sean Marks came in, he had nothing
to work with, he had nothing, This was going to
be the most impossible job ever.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Well, he made it possible and he found a way.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
And then you know, you have an opportunity to take
a Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. You can say what
you want, well, you know Kyrie was a pain in.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
This or whatever. Everybody would have done it.

Speaker 6 (37:42):
Everybody he wanted to be in that position to have
to do that. So here there are the Nets. They're
not like where they were before. Yet it's going to
take creativity, It's going to take I'm sure there's going
to be some lessons learned from the past. And maybe
you might you might not go for that guy that
might not you know, it might not be as reliable

(38:04):
as the next you might, you know, because you got
character really does matter. So I think this is a
fascinating time, is exciting time, and the flexibility that management
has and their creativity and ownership. You've got to have
ownership in line and willing to at times spend some
money here to make this move happen and things like that.

(38:27):
It feels like the Nets have that they've done it before,
they have experience in it, and I'm looking forward to
what's going to happen next.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Interestingly, as we look at the tools at Sean Mark's
disposal to improve the team this year, we're talking about
eleven first round picks between now in twenty twenty nine.
Only one of those tip picks is protected. Number of
second round picks and a number of players on the
roster who could be appealing to other teams. I think,

(39:03):
so let's get into that in terms of we know
that their own free agents. Cam Johnson is a restricted
free agent, so they have control, they can match whatever
offers are out there. I think Seth Curry is the
only other guy that's just a he's an unrestricted free agent.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
And I know I can't make a lot of movie.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
References to you guys, because you know, you know, you're
not up on that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
But I will, I will.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
So the cultural phenomenon that is Succession, I don't know
if you've heard of this show, you know Succession.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yes, Cobra has heard of it. Sarah doesn't get HBO.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
But there was a there was a recent episode just
last night as we tape this where it was called
kill List, and it's it's kind of about cutthroat corporate
mergers and things and and how when when when there's
a corporate takeover of another company, that there's some redundancy
amongst the players, and you know, they had a I

(40:00):
think was a kill list in terms of the company
taking over looked at all, Right, where are some of
these redundancies, and then people were worried they were going
to lose their jobs when the Nets sort of put
this team together on the fly after the All Star break,
and we were talking about this on Saturday cap r it.
They they weren't putting together a team at the time.

(40:21):
They were basically just trying to a right, we have
a situation here, we have a problem.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
We have to move Kyrie Irving and we have to
move Kevin Durant.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
So we're not worried about all right, this guy fits
with this guy we're building. We need this, we need that. No,
they just wanted assets. It's like a corporate takeover. We
just were buying a company for the assets and then
we'll figure out how those askets can help us in
another way.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
But there was a lot of redundancy.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
So I mean, I feel like when I look at
this roster, I see a lot of people I like,
I could make a case for liking every guy and
not being like, well, they need to get rid of
that guy, Whereas I haven't felt that way in a
long time about it team. You know, I've been a
lot of Net teams, and you can think about it
in recent years where the season ended, and you went, yeah,

(41:08):
I don't need to see that guy anymore, or I
don't think they need that that guy needs to audition
by subtraction, you should be out. I look at everybody,
and I go, I would love all these guys. I
can make a case for saying. And I think that
probably puts Cam puts Uh put Sean marks in a
in a good position, right, because he's got a lot
of guys that well, if I have to move them,
I can move them. But if I have to keep them,

(41:31):
that's good too. So Sarah, what would be god well,
going forward? Who are the guys though? That would be
like these guys I have to have see.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
I can't believe you're about to make me make a
kill list with this all of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
That's what I mean. Like it's not.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
But you do agree though, right, Sarah, that there's just
the team made up too many of the same thing exactly.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
And I fully understand those were excellent comparisons.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
Despite the fact I don't watch Succession, I feel like
I have a great game film.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
You're watching film, Yeah, I am, that's our succession. NBA
playoffs like a version of the Succession.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Tops on the list to me when I look at
this group, and to your point, I think every player
on this roster and I don't always feel this way,
but you understand the value and we're all always also
a little bit biased because we get to know them
as people, as human beings. So you want the best
for the best. But this is on the business side

(42:31):
of things. Number one on my list. If I am
Sean Marks in his group and his staff in the
front office is resigning Cam Johnson. I would have told
you that before the postseason began, but after watching him
not only in a playoff stage, but also how he
was able to thrive. And I think we all knew this.

(42:53):
We talked about it a lot, what we saw to
him with the nets. You need to also put that
into context that he was coming off injury and had
only played seventeen games for the Suns this season, So
not only did you see him at a stage where
he was still working his way into the season getting
back fully healthy, but the way he performed in the playoffs.

(43:13):
Obviously what he has done you know throughout the course
of his career to this point, the size, the age,
length of skill set, and oh, by the way, he's
also best friends and called twin with your other best
player in mckel bridges at this point. So to me,
there's a ton of factors that I would say that
that's your number one priority. I have loved the growth

(43:37):
of Nick Claxon, and we've talked about him a lot,
how you utilize him, what you do to help him.
But I and I think all of us not only
so impressed with the jumps he made in the leaps
this season, in this season where he was knock on,
fully healthy and able to you know, be available to
the to the amount that he played seventy six regular
season games, but doing so after signing a contract. And

(44:00):
I think that's always a question mark of when a
guy signs a big deal, in his first big deal, Okay, well,
how does he respond in that offseason?

Speaker 4 (44:07):
How does he come back that next season?

Speaker 5 (44:09):
Is that that level of hunger And you not only
saw the hunger and motivation and the growth, but just
the maturity and what you could expect out of a
young player like him. And I'm not going to keep going,
you know. To me, I'm a huge Roys O'Neil fan.
I think he's a winning player. I understand that he
did not make threes in a you know, in the

(44:30):
same type of efficiency that that you saw throughout the
course of the year in the in couple of those
playoff games. But Royce O'Neill, Dorian Finney Smith, to me,
those are those are valuable players that bring so much
on the defensive end of the floor, and you hope
that their comfort level, you know here in Brooklyn, continues
to thrive. And I think after that, and again I'm

(44:51):
not you know, those are the ones that jump out
to me. I think it's prioritizing whether it's three point shooting,
whether it's the offensive side, whether it's the defensive side,
what imitations do these players have and how does that
fit what you need with the others around them. But
to me, that's the priority. You know that this league
is about three point shooting, and so that will always

(45:12):
be the case.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
But we've already.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
Talked about, Okay, what are you doing at a position
to get players that can run and organize an offense,
get downhill, attack the basket, compliment that with three point shooting.
What they do in terms of versatility and guarding multiple
positions on the defensive end, all of those things, whether
it's rebounding, how you search for guys that will help
fortify you on the glass. There's a lot of areas

(45:34):
I think you look at and a lot of pieces
in all of these players that bring so much value
and so whether it's value to a NETS team or
value in acquiring other assets, I think that's you know,
where the puzzles and the pieces, the chess pieces, whatever
you know, comparison you want to make with it. I
think that's where the questions start to come into play
of how that looks and who you are moving or

(45:56):
fitting in and making this a roster that has a
lot of these needs and less areas or less holes
to fill.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
I so just let me clarify.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
If Sean Marks gets a call about mckel Bridges, you're
not hanging up the phone or you're including michel in
with the Cam.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
Josh, I'm including mckel Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Because you you mentioned him as an aside to Cam Johnson,
but you didn't.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Because he's your best player. Oh yeah, No, he's he's
he's the guy.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
He is.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
He is the guy that you are building around, and
to me, he's the player that's everything everything start. He's
the sun and everything else is going to revolve around
him and you would love to compliment you know him,
and I'm not saying that he always has to remain
your best player, but with what you have now, the
foundation you want to build without a doubt to me,

(46:48):
he is he is a guy that you want on
your team and in your locker room for multiple reasons.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Has the superstar era and and then you know some
people would say error, has that soured you on going
out and getting a top flight player and knowing that
if you're going to get a superstar uh, and not
in free agency but in a trade, that you're going

(47:17):
to have to You know that the bar was set
last year with the Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert type deals,
the Kevin Durant deal.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Is it is?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Was it just the particular person because I think you
just got to kind of you got to take into
accounty individual and and not be and not shy away
from the fact to think, well, a star player can't
work anymore. We've got to grow our own stars as
opposed to you know, because because we've been burned by
it before. Are we burned by it before? And don't

(47:50):
want to go that row because you.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Want to see I believe in love. I believe in loving.

Speaker 5 (47:56):
You just keep believing in love and keep pouring into that.

Speaker 7 (48:00):
Yeah, that's just because gets broken. Maybe you maybe just
playing the field everything? Will you just you keep you
keep cheering, You keep.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
A name because I don't want to throw a name
because this is a this is a I guess we're
not allowed to really comment on on training for players
now in the net roster or free agents out there,
but there are have been some names bandied about.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
I don't know if the time as a time to
bring up time Sarah.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I don't know. You don't know that yet. Well, well
here here we'll we'll talk around it as well. Here.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
I don't know if you realize Capper has a has
a speech thing and he'll tell you this, yeah, where
he has trouble with els. Oh, I shouldn't say that.
I'm sorry forget strike it from the record. The jury
will the jury will, uh will not hear what.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
I just said.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
He has trouble with a particular letter in the alphabet
and if a player. But I don't want to say
I don't want to say it. I don't want to
say I don't want to say the letter.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
I just want to have a speech impediment.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, so he has in trouble with a certain letter.
And if there was a player that had a letter,
that letter was appeared in his name multiple times, it's
a difficult name for him to say, so it'd be
tough for him.

Speaker 5 (49:19):
But you know what the beauty of a superstar is,
what is that often they just you recognize them by
one name, their first name. Yes, some people, if Capper
and I'm not saying Capper, I'm not saying you have
issues with this, But if Capper was calling Milwaukee Buckets
games and he didn't say a Detakopo very smoothly, he

(49:39):
could just start saying Yiannis.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
So there's other superstars that you wouldn't have to say,
there's their last name.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
You could just you know.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
We can work around that. But I also think it's
important to know.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
That that sometimes these players, sometimes these players that are
known by one name are also known to be high
character guys who have been team first, in community first,
and so thin that also plays into whether or not
you go after somebody.

Speaker 6 (50:04):
Yeah, I think that is a huge factor. I think
that is the I think that is the big one
right there. That is the one, Yes, you need to
upgrade or maybe get a more talented player here there.
What type of person is this guy in the big
picture and you say, well, you know, we go back

(50:25):
a lot of years, Chris, and there have been a
number of free agents that have come through the NETS
pipeline that they had great reputations coming in and they
were it wasn't great when they were here, not single
out one person. There's been a fuel on the way.
It's twenty one years and that becomes now. The key

(50:47):
is to make making sure the individuals that you might
make a deal for or the individual fits you know,
you know, it checks all those boxes as far as quality, person, leadership,
wanting to be here, all those kind of things. And
I think that's what, uh, what could come and play

(51:08):
this summer?

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Can I add one more thing onto that?

Speaker 5 (51:11):
When you look at and we're talking around this, but
that's where if Mickel Bridges is your second guy, if
he's your off guard and playing the two, his size
then gives you a lot of leeway. And we've talked
about a defensive lineup and what so the fact you
got a six six seven guy to go along with,
if it's a more undersized guard who has played around that,

(51:34):
but how who he's playing next to how that factors
into There's a lot of things that you look at
with some of the pieces you may and to your point,
you know, in anything, if you are looking at a
superstar trying to trade for a superstar, I think you're
gonna have to give something up like That's that's the
way the game goes.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
That's the kind of the thing I was saying about
with your kill list, the names you mentioned before, Sarah,
if any of those guys are are are being demanded
to get any sort of a player that we may
be talking around, are are you willing to part with
any of them one? Or are there certain guys you
would not? And then if if if, if that price

(52:14):
is too much, if the other the other side insists
on one of those people that you don't want to
part with, what does the other what does the plan
B look like? Is it trying to find some some
diamonds in the rough, uh, guys that can fill some
of the needs that aren't necessarily the the all NBA player.

Speaker 6 (52:36):
It's all, Chris, It's all of the above, all the time. Though,
I think I don't think you can go in there
uh in saying you have a specific plan that that
is going to be automatic and this is what's gonna work.
I think I think you're going at it in a
way that you're evaluating potential trades, maybe a free agent,
maybe things like that, you know, money wise, that there's

(52:59):
got to be there's some issue. Is there also you're
thinking about players that maybe people don't know about. Possibly
it's almost impossible now in Europe, But your your your,
you're I think it's all of the above all the
time to make a roster really work. And you can't
be specific in saying we just do it this way. Uh,

(53:20):
there's got to be there's flexibility with this team. There's
got to be unbelievable flexibility with how you look about
uh at building things. There's a player we haven't talked about.
There's a guy named Ben Simmons. You just think it's
impossible for him to be a player again, or you know,
like where do you see where do you guys see

(53:42):
his future? Is that something you're going to Are you
willing to give it another look? Do you think you've
got to try to unload this? What do you think
you're what are your thoughts on Ben.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
Simmons, that's a layer to one similar well, no, just
similar similar to C's question about what's planned. B Well,
it's a ton of moving parts because one thing is
linked to another and it's all predicated on a lot
of circumstances that may not just be a black and
white decision.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
And I think the same thing goes.

Speaker 5 (54:13):
You know, I was one of the people before the
start of last season that was so high on the
potential of what Ben could bring to the lineup, and
I think you know, in framing that and his fit
in his the skill set was based off of who
and how he was playing around and fitting into the
context of the roster as we knew it with the nets,

(54:34):
which clearly has changed and likely will change throughout the
course of this off season. But it's about getting back
on the floor, and it's about getting back to a
player that we once knew him to be in the
baseline of that, and one of it is and it's
both physical and mental health, and that's a factor and
Ben has spoken about that, but I think you know,
there was flashes this season when he was playing that

(54:58):
you thought, Okay, this is part of what you were
talking about. This is part of I say, the universally
the part of hope that he was returning to that.
And then there was also flashes that whether because of
the physical ailments, there was severe limitations that seemed to
cap exactly the point that he can get to. And

(55:18):
so I think for us to try and speculate how
we can help away from get back to a lot
of it is just him getting back on the floor,
and even once he.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Does it, how it's too hard.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
But it's a major facts, that's a factor.

Speaker 6 (55:33):
You can't not talk about it or address it or
think about it.

Speaker 5 (55:37):
It's a huge contract. That is part of what the
Nets have been trying to figure out. You even look
at this past playoff series. You look at throughout the
course of the season, how many times you know, and
I think because we became so accustomed to it that
but how many times could you look and say, man,
they can really use a guy that helps facilitate push
the pace play basketball. You know in a way that

(55:58):
the Nets wanted to play and guard you know, one
through five on that end of the floor. But that
also you know didn't come into fruition for you know,
mainly health reasons, but also just even that that comfort
level and confidence of who he was as a player
on the floor.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, and I think also you're looking at what, you know,
what was the issue. If it's a health issue, then
that can be fixed, or at least you can get
it to a point where you think you've got it
fixed out. But then there's just the game, and you
talk about getting the confidence back, the swagger back, the
ability to see him play at the kind of level
we saw when he was an All Star player with

(56:39):
the Philadelphia seventy six ers. I think in the time
he played with the Nets this year, he kind of
was just a role player. And I don't know how
much of that had to do with his health, but
he was. He was basically playing back up five. It
was it was hard for him to really play in
lineups with Nick Claxton because you had two guys you
didn't really have to guard on the perimeter.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
That makes it really tough on the other players that
are on the floor.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I don't know what his value has in a trade
because of that contract right now. I almost just look
at it as like like we went almost an hour and.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Didn't talk about him.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Not that I'm sure the net management is going to
be talking about him, But I almost.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Feel like it's going to be it's going to be
something that.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Potentially could be really great, or you just it's but
it's great, but don't plan around it.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I almost feel that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
It's like, we can't plan around it, but it could
be good, but we don't know exactly.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
And it doesn't appear this way. But we've been around
the league enough to know that you start talking about
untradeable contracts that all of a sudden get moved or
the player finds a new place, or someone feels like
in a circumstance, which is initially what we are saying, oh,
maybe in a different environment, this player may feel different
and perform different. And so you know, for as much

(58:09):
as it seems like a tough contract to move, different
organizations and different teams are always in circumstances that you know,
you never know exactly how that works or what could happen,
or the needs of other teams in certain times that
afford you an opportunity to make some decisions.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
That help benefit your team.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
In certain areas, there always seems to be a taker
at some point.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
We've seen that with guys too right or just grow man,
I didn't think anybody give this guy a third chance
or a fourth chance that it just happens, or maybe
they just look, you know, sometimes they could just be
to make make the money work, you know, in a trade.
The other thing the nets have at their disposure. We
talked about the draft picks. They have an eighteen million
dollar trade exemption, and so they're going to be able

(58:53):
to to take in more money than they get back
in deals, which which is also very valuable. I mean,
those things were created in some of these trades that
were made. These are certainly things that are valuable, especially
when you look at some guys around the league that
maybe other teams don't want to continue to pay. Maybe
other teams are going to do a sign in trade

(59:15):
and they don't have the room to do it. That's
another valuable tool I think at showing Mark's disposal, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:23):
All of the absolutely see and I think that all
circles back to a valuable tool. But it's all about tools,
and it's all about the different the different looks at
what the landscape is this summer for the front office,
and that's that's why they get paid the big bucks,
because it's really challenging because there's a variety of different

(59:47):
lanes areas, you know, places you can go down in
terms of what the roster may look like and how
you're looking to improve it to change it, and what
you do, whether it is with the money, whether it
is with picks, whether it is through trades, whether it
is through free agency, are going to sign clearing up
you know, different roster spots. Who you really want to
keep and who you need to keep based on who
you're bringing in and so you know, and even what

(01:00:08):
the draft looks like and who you end up bringing in.
What are some of your younger prospects grow into in
What of these younger prospects we've seen this season do
they value in ways that they think could continue helping
this organization and helping these lineups.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
We saw the you're talking about young players at nets
right now, I think twenty one and twenty two. In
terms of the picks in the draft and whether or
not those will be used in a trade, if they'll
use them on players. We talked about the leap that
Nick Claxton made going from last year to this year,
a kind of a polarizing player for the for amongst

(01:00:45):
net fans, it was Cam Thomas, So can he make
that similar type jump like Nick Claxton made, because we
see he does something that it's really hard to find
somebody just that can score the way he can. Can

(01:01:05):
he make a similar jump because if there's anybody it
seems like can improve their game, maybe not they improve
their scoring, but improve the other aspects of the floor
that make you valuable. And I don't know if it's
going to be with the Nets or it's going to
be with somebody else, but he certainly is an intriguing
player to watch.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Yeah, I mean to think about the the highlight moments
he's had as a member of the Brooklyn Nets, and
that's going back to his rookie year. Someone who can
score on anyone at any time is a tremendous value
and has the steady nature of the composure. I think
his you know, his demeanor and disposition is something that

(01:01:46):
can be a value on a team. Do I think
he can make that jump or make a jump, Absolutely,
because even what we saw from his rookie year, you
think about an area from his game is rookie year
that in the idea of playing offan Durant and Kyrie
Irving was can he improve his three point shooting. Can
he improve his catch and shoot from the three point

(01:02:08):
line and to shoot twenty three percent from three his
rookie year and jump that up to over thirty eight
percent this season, And in tough, some tough three point looks,
off the dribble, off the move, you name it. This
is a player who we already saw made those improvements.
To me, it's the buying that he will have. I

(01:02:28):
think there's so much focus when you talk about Cam
Thomas on the defensive end, which is part of a factor,
and I do think that's maybe not been an area
that has been had been emphasized enough through the early
part of his early part of his basketball career and
collegiate career end of the year that he had spent
at LSU. But to me, it's also the how do

(01:02:49):
you how do you play within the flow of the
offense and function in a a scoring way but still
be able to facilitate, be able to make plays for others,
but also keep the ball moving Because when the nets offense,
and quite frankly, any offense you look in the NBA
has at its best, it's when the ball is popping
and moving and everyone's touching, and everyone's making quick decisions

(01:03:10):
whether you're going to penetrate and drive, make a play,
shoot or pass it. Putting a defense in rotation, that's
where you're always going to get your best shots. Everyone's
going to feel as well. Even if a guy's on
the floor and playing amazing defense, you've got Dorian Finney
Smith or playing tough, tough defense and only taking one
field goal, but they're touching the ball every time.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
That matters.

Speaker 5 (01:03:31):
That matters with the ball, have an energy, and so
I think for Cam there was often times that it
wasn't just about making a play front, but can you
just keep these offensive plays moving and can you keep
the possessions moving? And can you play at the pace
in the half court. It's not just full court fast paced,
but half court pace. And that's the stuff to me,
where when you're on the floor with other really excellent

(01:03:53):
players or playing in that second unit, they can get
shots themselves. How do you still be as much of
a threat to score and much of a threat for
others and keep the offense flowing and functioning how it
was when you're on the floor. And to me, that's
the jump I want to see Defensively, absolutely, but that
this is a jump to me offensively that I think

(01:04:14):
he needs to make coming into this next year, regardless
of who he's playing for. If you want to be
on a winning team and a team that's going to
win and going to compete.

Speaker 6 (01:04:23):
That's really well said, because I think there's a tendency
to immediately go to the defensive side of the floor
when you're thinking of Cam and you're thinking, hey, listen,
he's got to get better defensively, which he does, but
also how he plays offense is important too in the
big picture, unless he's going to be and just sees
himself as a future sixth seventh man that could come

(01:04:47):
in and maybe get buckets for a team and just
started the second quarter and do that again. The Claxon
comparison is interesting because if you had asked me about
Nick Clackson last year, I'm not I'm sure, you know.
I think he could be a pretty good player. He's
got a little edge to him, but he's not that healthy.
He's fitness, he's you know, all those things, and so

(01:05:08):
he really surprised me. So I would never say never,
but I think Cam cam Thomas is a special type
of score. I think it's important for him to understand
what it means to be an NBA well, how to
be I don't know this though, because I'm not around him,
But I just know for young players sometimes how to
be a pro. You know, like, what are you going
to do this offseason? What is your what is your

(01:05:30):
day to day routine. Maybe it's a great idea for
you to stick around Brooklyn a Ton this summer so
that the staff knows how serious you are about becoming
a better player or taking it to another level.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Maybe it's a little of that stuff all. You know. Again,
we're not there. We don't know these things.

Speaker 6 (01:05:47):
But for young players that can sometimes you know, benefit
them this to show the seriousness and the professionalism. They've
understood what is needed and they want to do it
because he does have a natural gift to score.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Yeah, and and you know we've seen that even when
he was a focal point in summer league teams.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
He's been like All Summer League two years in a row.
You know. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
The other the other part of it is I always
thought of, yeah, could he be that guy that's just
the sixth man that comes off the bench and just
scores all out like a Lou Williams or Jamal Crawford.
But I think we saw that a little bit in
the playoffs, that those guys have to be the uh
instant coffee, as you used to say, They got to
be the microwave. They gotta they gotta heat up quick.

(01:06:27):
And sometimes I always fell like Cam doesn't heat up quick.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Now he's more like him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
He's more like a French press cap or when you
air coffee right away.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
He's an airfire. You got to give them some time.
They don't go right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Yeah, it takes a little time, so we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
And man, sometimes it just doesn't work out with one
team and the guy needs to go somewhere else and
see how he fits personally. I don't know, it's it's
it's fascinating. But another one of those assets you're talking about.
These are all assets.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Somebody's gonna really like him.

Speaker 6 (01:06:57):
Somebody likes him out there, you know how like the
scout all right, you know they scout college guys. They
scout other pro guys on other people's benches also, So
you can't have a guy that can score like that,
have that amount of forty point games and not be
interesting to one of the thirty other teams in the NBA.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Come on, guys, I it's it's I wasn't so melancholy
after the Net loss, knowing that I would see you
guys again this year and in the coming days, and
we were going to do this podcast. I really don't
want to say goodbye and wrap it up, but I
will you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
Please just keep talking for hours.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Yeah, we just addressed it's like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
A live thing that people can join us.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
We may get down the road. Maybe maybe once things move,
start to be made and things start to happen around
the draft, maybe that's a that's an interesting point there
for you, Sarah, a live voice of the NETS podcast
where we can get you know, people tweeting or calling in.
I think there's a way to do that. Actually, question

(01:08:01):
Isaac Lee. Our engineer will will put him to the
test see if we can do that. But thank you
so much for doing this before we run, Sarah, is
there anything that I know You've got like sixteen jobs,
So is there anything that we can tell the fans
to where to see Sarah Coustin?

Speaker 5 (01:08:19):
Oh you can, you can if you just want to
hear my voice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Yeah you also also, you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:08:24):
Can yeah join me anytime. You want.

Speaker 5 (01:08:26):
I have a podcast called NBA Pulse with iHeartRadio and
the NBA, and we have it three days a week Monday, Wednesday,
Friday with a variety of different guests. But we talk
about the latest news in the NBA and as you
can imagine, throughout the course of the playoffs and postseason,
a lot of it is is review and preview for
many of these tremendous currently first round series, but as

(01:08:49):
the playoffs continue, Yeah, the news and you know so
for that call.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
A lot of NBA insiders on your show all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Hey, careful, I started both of you, both of you.
I need it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Have you both on, uh and and and you've got
you're always on like CBS Sports Network and.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
We need to talk some CBS Sports. Yeah, and that
continues little Fox Sports. Yeah, all of it continues. All
of it continues, some NBA radio, a little bit of everything,
but most importantly, just hanging out with you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
Just hanging out with you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:09:23):
Me Chris, you can find me at Costco shop right
whatever my wife needs me to do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Uh, playing fetch with Ace.

Speaker 6 (01:09:32):
Ace in O'Connor park, walking him. Yeah, that's kind of
my that's my.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Well, and also you got the new need which is
going to help you this summer when you're running around
coaching kids because you have the tim.

Speaker 5 (01:09:47):
Can I I'm going to come back, and I'm going
to come back and camp.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
We'd like to have you back. You, you know, tremendous.

Speaker 5 (01:09:54):
Since I don't have a place to live for a
couple of months, maybe I just run.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
The dorm rooms.

Speaker 4 (01:09:59):
Is there dorm rooms?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
We've got West Oranger here, you can go right there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Yeah, Capra's got some rooms for you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
He'll he'll put you up as long as he can
get you to speak at the camp teach kids. Uh, well,
guys really appreciate it. Uh clear, we can take our
baggies now and clear out and uh look forward to
what should be a a fascinating next few months. Uh
you know, forget about the you know what's going to

(01:10:26):
go happen on the court over the next few months.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
But uh, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
I don't know, I guess I guess you'd probably got
to wait until the playoffs are over before we start
to see a lot of movement in terms of what
the Nets are going to do. So enjoy the postseason
and then when that's all done, all and said and done.
Like I said, you can hear me and Cappra every
occasionally on Sarah's podcast, but otherwise we'll have you guys
back on.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
So thank you so much for doing this.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
Thank you, can't wait. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Ever, can go run her five six miles? Unless she
probably did that already earlier this morning?

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Right? Did that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:10:56):
I did? Time now to eat some candy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Yes, all right, guys, thank you so much. Thank you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I would I would ask you, guys, what you're binging
or what you're listening to, but that stuff, Sarah. Let
me ask you this because I always like to leave
people with something that they can listen to or watch
when you're running. What's the go to playlist for Sarah?
What are some What are the songs that get you
in the mood and get your to run? You know,

(01:11:25):
that give you energy? Maybe you're listening to Psyche you
up when you're driving over the Brooklyn Bridge going to
part I'll give.

Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
You my my playlist I listened to this morning. Had
some Nipsy Hustle, It had some Abs Soul, had a
little Freddy Gibbs, had some Tupac.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
What else was on there some sizza I'm going through.
It's some jay Z.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Playlist for when he was out walking eag.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
Yes, that's what. Yeah, that's what. That's that's what. That's what.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
This morning's SUSA.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
Yeah, chills you down, get up, get down, all that.
But those were I'm looking at the playlist now. I
thought you were going to ask me about podcasts, and
I was just gonna pump yours.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
No, we don't need that, we don't need muscle.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
Reading a book called Absolute Fear by Lisa Jackson. Then
I just started Normally during the season, I don't read
a lot of books that aren't like nonfiction or whatever,
and so I just started that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
I'm the same way I love. I love a good
novel during the summer. I don't go to it during
the year because I feel like.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
You, No, No, I can't, I can't focus.

Speaker 5 (01:12:28):
I probably should, but no, I always think I'd rather
be reading work related things.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Yeah, but in the summer it gives you time to
jump on that kind of stuff. All right, guys, thank
you so much. We'll talk to you down the road.
That's the Kapper, Tim Cabstraw, Sarah Kustak. Thanks to our
producer Steve Goldberg, producer, engineer Isaac Lee. Talk to you
again next time. Hey, take a little bit of a break,

(01:12:54):
and then we'll get into some long form stuff, and
then again as things break during this NETS off season,
and we'll bring back our NETS insiders here to give
you our perspective on it. So I always appreciate you listening, tuning, in, subscribing.
I'm Chris Carino. This has been the voice of the NETS.