Episode 43: Ryan Forehan-Kelly, Nets Assistant Coach

Chris speaks to the Brooklyn Nets' assistant coach Ryan Forehan-Kelly about his unusual career in basketball and the wisdom he's earned along the way.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, what's going on. It's Chris Carrino. This is the
voice of the NETS podcast. We were on a brief
hiatus after the NETS playoff run ended, and now we
are back and we're going to talk with one of
my favorite people in the organization today, Ryan foehan Kelly.
You know we've had Nick Claxton here on the podcast

(00:30):
that I've talked to Nick on the radio a bunch
of times, and whenever we bring up his development, which
was which was a big bright spot for the Nets
this year. I mean, Nick Claxton was part of the
most improved player conversation in the NBA this year, the
Defensive Team Awards Defensive Player of the Year was in
the conversation briefly for that. But when you talk to

(00:53):
Nick Claxon about his development, to his credit, the name
he brings up all the time is Ryan foehand Kelly.
They bonded when Ryan was kind of the liaison between
the players that would play for both Long Island and Brooklyn.
So that's an important part of the NETS trying to

(01:18):
develop young talent is having these player development coaches, and
Ryan foehand Kelly has been an important member of this
NETS staff. Since twenty seventeen, and his responsibilities just keep
growing because he does such a good job. He was
a guy that started back in California. He calls the

(01:39):
whole state is his native state because he went to
high school in both southern California and northern California. He
went to cal He started as a walk on there,
earned a scholarship, eventually became the team captain, and then
his journey, his basketball journey would take him to South America, Europe,

(02:02):
Asia and all those places back and forth. He would
played two years in the D League when it was
called back then with the LA Defenders. You have it
fourteen points a game. But it wasn't until he had
a major injury and he discovered something. You know, coaching
was never for him about something to fall back on

(02:23):
or even something that he aspired to. It was something
that he kind of discovered. I heard Jeff Van Gunny
the other day on one of the broadcasts talking about
players becoming leaders and what has to happen, what's the
mindset that has to happen, And I think it's the
same with coaches or people that find coaching. It's can

(02:43):
you be happy with other people's success? Can you find
happiness in others succeeding? I heard Eric Spolster talk about
that after one of the recent Eastern Conference Finals games,
that you know, his leaders, his players, that they find

(03:03):
joy in other people's success, and that's what player development
is all about. And that's been a theme for Ryan
Forehand Kelly since he discovered that and it got into
the NBA as a coach on this NET staff. So
I hope you enjoy our conversation with Nets assistant coach

(03:27):
Ryan Forehand Kelly right here on the Voice of the Nets.
Ryan Forehand Kelly, you know there are there are there's
a handful of people in the organization that when I'm
when I'm walking down a hallway somewhere in an arena
and and they're coming the other way, coming toward you,

(03:49):
that I genuinely get excited to see. And Ryan Forehand
Kelly is one of those guys. You have that way
about you, right, I know, thank you. I know it's
not something that's that's put on, because it's it's natural,
and I would imagine that's that's a part of your
being able to stick around to the organization and connect

(04:11):
to the players as you had because there's a there's
a natural warmth about you.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Has anyone ever told the Hall I'm gonna take it
as a compliment, but no, nobody attacked warped, So nobody
ever told me that. They say I'm cold, they say
I'm like a New Yorker. Now that out there on
the East Code, it didn't take it.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, you are originally from Long Beach, California, And I
know you kind of went back and forth between southern
California and northern California. Are you just sort of a
of a you call all of California? Yeah, I just
say California.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Got so, I was born in Long Beach, so I
moved to the Bay when I was three. I moved
back to southern California, Orange County when I was like
middle of my junior year high school, so I was
like seventeen, and then you know, went back to the
Bay for college, went to Berkeley, and it's been all
over the place from there. So, yeah, you ask me
where I'm from, I would just say California.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
The Golden Crea. You gotta you've got a hyphening, you
said fore hand, Kelly H. And I know a lot
of times that that's probably a good family story. So
what what are the reasons for the hyphen Who's forehand
whose strength?

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Man? It comes down to strength man. So uh, you know,
Forehead is my mother's side and Kelly is my father's side,
So you know, the the idea was to have both
names there, you know, because that's who I am. You know,
strength comes from both sides. And uh, and you know

(05:42):
it's actually kind of fitting. You know, my my grandfather
on my mother's side, you know, he was an orphan,
you know, made it, made it through, you know, became
a doctor. And then you know, my grandfather on my
father's side, you know, he was he was an entre
so he you know, his grandfather was a slave, so

(06:04):
you know he they're from they're from Oklahoma, Arkansas, and
you know, he moved his way out west, built the
family and it became an entrepreneur, had his own trucking
business and whatnot. So I don't know how they foresaw
all that, my parents, my mom and dad, but somehow,
you know, that was kind of the strength in my family.

(06:25):
That's kind of what makes me and and really my brother.
You have one brother and and forehand is the is
your mom. Kelly is your dad's side, and and and
that's it's great because that's when I see two names,
you know, including both names, the mom's maiden name, the
father's maiden name. I knew, I knew there was a
story behind it. I knew there was something there. You're

(06:47):
what was the reason you guys kept going back and
forth in California?

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Really? School. My mom was in school. My parents had
me where they were young. My mom was in school,
so she was, uh, you know, she was at you see,
she was at Santa Cruz and then she came back
to you side to get her master's in her PhD.
So that's why I moved back. I went to three
years of high school in the Bay and then one
year of high school in southern California, a year and
a half in southern California. So yeah, it was really

(07:15):
because of school education.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Your basketball journey will take you all over the world,
So I would imagine be having to go back and
forth and leaving friends and meeting new people along the
way when you're a kid and you're in grammar school
and you're in high school. In a way, was that
preparing you for everything that was to come in this journey?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Absolutely? I mean, you know, I didn't. I didn't really
know until I had kids and my kids moved from
California to the East Coast to New York and then
to Jersey. But to me, that just kind of seeing
what you do, like you just your family packs up
and you go and you live here and you make
new friends and you keep your old friends. And I

(08:01):
looked at it as a blessing. You know. Now I
got five cities full of friends, you know, so five
times the amount of friend you know. But I didn't
really know how rare that was really, you know, and
so I have my own kids, and you got to
start thinking about, you know, different schools and you know,
going from grammar school to middle school, middle school to
high school, different athletic programs, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
So it absolutely did. I mean, you know, my thirteen
years planned, you know something, all the way around the world,
all kinds of different places, and that was not so
it definitely prepared me for that.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
And you know, just think about you just mentioned your wife, Melly,
have three kids, you're living in New Jersey. Now. The
life of a coach, the life of a professional basketball player,
you know it it's a nomadic life a lot of times,
and you have to account for your family and being
a part of that and being able to you know,

(08:58):
have them taking them from one place to another. Before
we get into into that aspect of your life, let's
just go back now to.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
You're a kid.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Was basketball a way to connect with friends and was
that kind of the common language that was spoke whether
you were in Orange County or you were up in
the Bay Air.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I mean basketball always kind of been my thing.
I mean, you know, it was just me and my brother,
so you know, we played basketball every day, right and
you know, you go back to like stories when I
was like an infant and they'll tell you, like, if
you gave me a ball, I'm trying to shoot it
in the lampsade or the trash basket, whatever's rat you
know what I'm saying. So, uh, it just always been

(09:44):
my thing. We played all sports, but basketball kind of,
you know, stood out stood out at the end of
the day. I mean, we played baseball, football, soccer, all
that coming through, but basketballill always kind of the kind
of the way and that's why I feel blessed to
you know, still be making friendships and relation you know,
building relationships through basketball.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was was Cal always on your your radar?

Speaker 2 (10:09):
You ended up being a walk on there.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
You mentioned your mom has advanced degrees and education is
probably important to you. Cal is a that's a that's
a good school. So is that always the focal point
for you going forward with yes?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
No, and maybe probably so? Uh all right, all three.
So you know, growing up in the Bay, I was
in high school in the Bay, middle school in the Bay.
So you know I watched a lot of Cal basketball.
They were good then, you know, as Jay Kid, Kevin Johnson.
When I was younger, Sharif abdu Raheem, you know, so
I watched all these I watched all these guys play.

(10:46):
So I always wanted to go to CAP and the
Pac ten was crazy back then. I mean top five
teams in the Pac ten were, you know, some of
the best teams in the country. So I always always
watched it. You know. As I got a little older
in high school, I used to go play with those as,
go to open gym at Kyle whatnot. So as a
younger dude like Kyle, I always wanted to go to CAP.

(11:08):
My godmother went to Cal, and you know, I always
wanted to go to Caphi was high school went on
and reality kicked in and I got older, Like I
wasn't sure how real that reality was. I was getting
recruited by a lot of D one schools, uh, smaller schools,
mid level schools. Uh. We looked at Ivy League schools,

(11:30):
some high levels, you know, uh Division II schools and whatnot.
And then Cayl came. Cayl came along at the time
we were sanctioned, so we're down one, I think one
scholarship when I got there. And so the deal was,
you know, I could go there, but I would I
would have to walk off right after my way onto

(11:51):
the team. So it was a tough decision. It was
kind of a risky decision. You know. I had people
telling me coaches town he had go to Division two,
where you'll play. You know, if you go to this
Division one, even if you make the team, you'll never
play in the Pac ten, this, that, and the other.
Respect to my brother and mom, I never saw it

(12:12):
that way. So I saw it as an opportunity. You know,
she raised us to always compete in anything that we do,
so you know, whether that's education or that's sports, and
in fact education coming first. So if we didn't compete
in education, we were playing no sports. So I wanted
to go to the school that had the best of

(12:34):
both world, right, like someone that has an elite education
and elite athletics. And so to me, it was a
no brainer. Kyle was a no brainer. And so you're
talking to starship non scholarship. You could call me naive
at the time or whatever, but that's just money, right, Like,
we can go get some more money and we can

(12:54):
pay it back. Worst comes the worst, you know, we'll
get some money and we'll pay it back. So it
was never a financial thing, you know, now I look
back on it, it was kind of a roll of
the dice, But for not really because the experience there
was exactly that, you know, a tremendous experience educationally, u
you know, being around students that are in the top
of their class, competing at education like how we compete

(13:18):
at basketball. So I'll never forget my my roommate my
freshman year, Ridgie Jacob, was an economics major and he
was our team manager. And one night after the game,
he got up at like, you know, one point thirty
two in the morning, we're in the doors and he's
getting up them, like, bro, what are you doing? He
just got all from the game and ate and he's

(13:40):
going to like a study hall, like a you know
with his classmates. He's going to study because they have
a test. And I'm like at two thirty, brother, you're
about to go right now at two thirty. And he
was like, yeah, that's what we do, you know. So
they had you know, they went to the library and
they met and they studied from like two thirty to
like five. But that really opened my eye. You know,
do that for basketball, you know what I'm saying. And

(14:02):
it's like all these kids were doing that for education.
So it was a special place to learn. It's home
to me, you know what I'm saying. And then basketball
was a very high level. Like I said, U sa
La Arizona, Oregon. You can go all the way down
the list. Man, it was a super high level of basketball.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
And a great history of basketball there, like you mentioned
former net great Jason Kidd of course went there for you.
Who was the coach when you were at cal ben
Brun and he ended up giving you a scholarship the
next year, right you You earned the scholarship, yes, after
your fresh year and eventually you went from being a
walk on to being the captain of the teenth.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Wh Yeah, I think I was just a like older guy,
So I think that's why they gave him to me.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, No, I think you're downplayed it. I think your
your your humility is hitting his kicking in there? Dude,
Where is there an NBA dream during your years at
cal What was your what was your your thought about
playing professionally when you.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Were at Canton. Yeah, I mean, you know, uh yeah,
obviously the NBA was obviously the goal, right like, But
to me more so, was just reached my full potential
in this game, right like, That's all you can do,
whether it's NBA, overseas, whatever it is. So, uh, you know,
I ended up playing overseas for a long time to

(15:24):
the couple cracks at the NBA, through the D League,
the D League back then. But uh, you know, ultimately
thirteen years, you know, we got four championships in this
thirteen years, I left with no regrets.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
So well, you mentioned the D League, so you you
that's just a little sliver of your your post college
playing career. You had two seasons. I believe the LA
defenders you're around LA of course, stayed in California eighty
one games. You averaged about fourteen points a game, never

(16:01):
maybe quite broke through to the NBA level level. But
I've got to go through. You leave cal I mean
now you start this journey, so I'm gonna go through
the countries you played in. Maybe let me know if
I'm leaving Ano Venezuela, which you went. You went to
a number of different times in your career. Uh, Japan, China,

(16:24):
h France, Uh Shortan' yeah that was in there, a
little bit of Jordan. Am I missing? Am I missing
a country?

Speaker 2 (16:36):
China? China? We said, you can say China, all right,
China twice. I was there four years, so you can
say four times. Uh. I think the way it went
is Croatia. Maybe Italy too, Croatian and in Italy Croan
all right.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I had I had a I had a buddy of
mine that played in that went, you know, after college,
went out of play in Venezuela.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
It's a place you went a few times.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
And he lasted like a week because he said, as
soon as I saw guys walking around with macheti's I said,
I was out of there. It's it's a different vibe
you got to get used to how did you adjust?

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (17:13):
I think that was your first Venezuela might have been
your first stop, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
So when I came out of college, I was actually
about to to go to training camp and then I
had surgery. So I had surgery. I ended up you know,
getting healed up from that and whatnot. And it was
like this time of year. So I went and played
in the playoffs in Marguerita Island in Venezuela. And you know,
it's kind of hit introduction to Venezuela because we were

(17:38):
on the island. You know, you could compare it to
our Hawaii maybe, you know what I'm saying. So it's
a little bit different than you know, the other two
years I played in Caracas, which is you know city,
like that's that's very different. But you know, I mean
it was beautiful. Venezuela was beautiful, you know what I'm saying,
just in terms of the lifestyle. You know, the food,

(18:01):
the basketball was good, competitive, you know, was it was
it as good as you thought? Maybe and you're come
from the Pac twelve.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
I mean, I'm sure it's kind of like, well, I
had my thoughts on I could be an NBA player
one time and maybe some injuries and now I'm in Venezuela. Kids,
you know, and kids in Orange County don't dream about
going to play in Venezuela one day. So when you
get there, what's the game?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Like? Competitive? Rough, but a good brand of basketball at
the end of the day. And you know, they got
dudes that can play. I mean I played against you know,
Victor David Diaz. He was a beast, right he uh
he he changed the plight of my career because you know,
he was whooping me that that first year out. I

(18:46):
thought I could do something. He was he was murdering.
So I worked every single day to be able to
compete against him.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's that same year too, I played with Carl Herrera.
Uh you know who won championship in Houston, right, So
you know it was it was you know, some good
some good players out there, but it was it was
a very competitive league. They loved basketball out there, so

(19:13):
it was you know, to say the least, it was fun.
You know, the weather's beautiful, it's nice. It was kind
of a summer. It started like in February, kind of
went to like right before the summer. So it was
you know, during these good months. So uh, you know,
at the end of the day, it was it was
a good competitive leady h I have fun at it.

(19:33):
The sweat.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
I I did a lot of NBA Europe teams and
and things like that, and I've seen you you mentioned Croatia.
I mean some of it, it gets it get, it
gets unruly sometimes. I mean there's a passion with the fans.
What's the what's the craziest environment you ever played?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh, that's a good question. That's a good question. Each
one is crazy and it's so since man. I mean,
if you look at Venezuela, you know, I was there
when the president passed, right, I was there in the
president pass and there was like a six week stall
in the season that was crazy. And yeah, you know,

(20:12):
everybody's very passionate. So you go to somebody else's home
and they're passionate, you know what I'm saying. Same thing
in Europe though, same thing in Italy, Like you go
play in these teams in Italy or you go from
Italy to another country, and yes, like it's it's a
high level. I mean it's borderline hate. You know what
I'm saying for you, for your color I'm saying. So,

(20:35):
you know, Croatia too, passionate, passionate fan basins. Creation was
crazy too, you know, just with the history there formerly
Giugoslavia and play playing against the neighboring countries and whatnot.
But yeah, it's all passion and love for their teams.
So well, you know, at the end of the day,
it was exciting. It makes it all that much more exciting,

(20:57):
you know, to go there and compete.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, and you're getting this incredible experience not only in
basketball but in life. What about the Asian countries? What
what was What was it like playing in both Japan
and China.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Ah, interesting, very different leagues, very different countries. Something that
I didn't realize, you know before I lived there. China
was very reflected of the NBA. So at that time,
it was actually the first year I went there was
like the tith anniversary of the CBA and the Chinese

(21:34):
basketball there ago Chinese Basketball Association, and you know, it
was a very NBA type game.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
The rules were NBA type. Uh, you know that it's
kind of the league that Yao built. Yes, right, I
mean he was the big influence there, that's right, That's right.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
So I mean at that time, Y'ao was like still
in Houston, so he was, you know, a icon Therey
like he was, you know, the label of the league,
and I think, you know, they took a lot of
his experience and brought it back to that league. Japanese
league that I played in was very different. I played
in two different leagues. So the first first year I

(22:14):
played in it was Icing and that was that. That
league was interesting because it developed just really from bragging, right.
So the teams I played for Icing with the subsidiary
company of Toyota. Toyota had a team, Hatachi had a team,
so all these like megabrands out there. And I guess

(22:36):
the way it started was they you know, it was
kind of like a company league, right, and it got
more and more and more competitive, and they started, uh,
you know, bringing in America is a higher level talent,
and I wanted two guys to come from other countries,
and it just turned into like this super competitive like

(22:57):
almost for bragging like rights type league. I played with JR. Henderson,
you know, from UCLA. Also Iva got Um. He played
his whole career there, so he left the NBA. He
played his whole career there beautiful country, beautiful league, beautiful lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
You bounced around though country to country. I don't think
you spent more when you're looking at your your career,
I don't think you spent more than a couple of
years in a row in one place. Was there ever
a place where you thought I could, like you mentioned Jr.
Being there for so long in Japan, was there a
place you thought, I could, you know, put some roots down,
or we're just always trying to get somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, I said no, I think every it just kind
of depended year to year. I think it just kind
of unfolded that way. It wasn't necessarily the plant Japan,
I would say, is one of them that I would
I would have loved to stay at Great for the family.
You know, my firstborn signing. You know, he went to
uh he went to kindergarten out there, you know, so

(24:08):
it was a great experience. What happened was it was
the year of the tsunami, so it was the earthquake.
It was the year of tsunami. I was in japaning,
I was in Tokyo. Yeah when it happened. Yeah, that
was that was interesting. He said, all right, well I
want to hear that story, Boston crazy story. So, uh,

(24:32):
it was game day. We were in Uh we were
in Tokyo Shabu Yah Station, which is supposedly like the
if not one of the most busiest intersections in the
the world, right in the middle of downtown. And so,
you know, it was game day. I was taking the nap,
you know, went to shoot around, shot ate something, taking

(24:54):
the knob, laying down, hanging getting ready for the game.
And you know, the starts shaking. We're in the hotel.
The hotel room starts shaking and whatnot. And I'm from California,
so I'm you know, earthquake is an earthquake. I used
to yeah, you know, mother Nature. I'm never playing with
Mother Nature. But earthquake is earth So you know, it
starts shaking, you know, So I'm like whatever, I kind

(25:16):
of roll over, go back to sleep. Are you in
a high rise build? Yes, sir, how I mean it
was at least eighty floors, you know what I'm saying.
And where were you? I was I can't say exactly.
I mean I was on twenty something, twenty sixty, like,
you know, I was something like that, and uh, you know,
started shaking. Shaking, shaking, and you know, at this point,

(25:39):
I'm like, I'm like, you know, hold on, So I
opened the I opened my door to ask Jr. You
know what are we doing? Right? He lived there his
whole career. So I opened my door to see, like,
hey man, we were about to do. And when I
opened the door, like all the cleaning ladies and hotel

(25:59):
attendants people working there just start. We're like running for
their life down the hall. So I was like, yeah,
so I threw my shoes on. You're thinking everybody's going
to think this is oh, this is a normal thing.
Like everybody's calm, No, they're running. So you know, now
it's been like it's beitting their at it's still shaking,
like and shake and shaking, shaking. So you know, we
we run to the stairs, running in the stairs and

(26:19):
running you know, down wrong the round and down the stairs.
And you know, at first we're like, you know, I
say weak because it's like a group of us by now,
it's like seven or eight of us by now. And
by that, you know, we're kind of like jogging down
the stairs and whatnot. And all of a sudden, I
have my hand on the riar and it like dip
down to like my shins and then like raise back

(26:40):
up like over my head. And then I was like, yeah,
this ain't no joke. So now we're going like now
I'm going like one two steps and then jumping to
the bat one two steps, jump to the ball one
two steps. You know, we're going around like that. Uh
get to the bottom. Uh go out into the intersection,
and all you see are these high rise building. I mean,
it's just like being in New York. You see these

(27:02):
high rise building and waiting. You see the sky for
a second and the sky disappearars and whatnot, and that
was the earthquake, and then you know it was it
was chaos tsunami. Yeah, it was pretty pure chaos. It
was pure chaos for that evening. Nobody really knew what
was going on. Then you hear about water hit hitting

(27:25):
the North. You know, we had a couple of players
from the North and their families are there. You know,
you're starting to hear that it's more and more serious,
and you know, I don't know what no tsunami is.
You know, I had no idea anything about a tsunami.
And then you start seeing pictures, videos, watching the news

(27:46):
and whatnot. And you see that it's you know, it's
real tragedy going on in the North. So first couple
of days it's kind of weird trying to figure out
what's started happening, you know, with the tsunami, with the
power plant, with the league, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And then from there they ended up canceling the league,

(28:09):
but we stayed for like a week or two afterwards.
I will say one of my best experiences playing overseas
was going with the Red Cross to our our local
train station in Nagoya. So my team was in Nagoya
hour and a half plane ride to or train ride
speed trained to Tokyo. And you know, my team, our

(28:35):
team went with Red Cross. We went there and when
I tell you, when I tell you Chris, that there
they were waiting in line to donate money to the North. Right,
this is you know, the North is another two hours
north of Tokyo, literally standing in line. So this is
like seven eight in the morning, rush hour traffic. You know,

(28:57):
people getting ready to shoot to Tokyo, you know, just
like being in Manhattan. Right, everybody stopped. When I tell
you ninety eight, ninety nine out of one hundred people stopped.
It was literally a line that reached out outside of
like the corridor and into the street of people waiting
to donate money. And you know, it was it was unbelievable,

(29:23):
you know, it was. It was unbelievable to see a
whole nation, you know what I'm saying, coming together to
do what's best for people that you that you don't know,
you know, and you know, you saw kids with the
little piggy banks pouring out their whole piggy bank all
their change. You saw older people, younger people, business people,
family people, you know, well, you name it. Everybody was

(29:46):
out there donating for the North.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
So you see that, you see the you know, when
when tragedy strikes different areas, you see how people react.
It gives you a real sense of of of of
of who they.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Are as a that's it, that's it, and just their
overall character. That was their character. And you know they're
in need, We're going to help when they can't, they
would do it for us, you know what I'm saying. So,
I mean, I was all I mean, I was probably
like thirty at the time, and you know, that was
one of the biggest lessons I learned in my life
and I take it, you know, every day with me.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
So I'm sure there are a lot of different coaching
methods there, you know. And when you played overseas as
opposed to what you might experience, how did that all
cheap your coaching style and the way you approach it
now coming is and assistant.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, man, everywhere's different. Man, You've been in your you know,
been in the NBA, so you've seen the different styles bond.
You know, there's all different types of coaching, you know,
different types of winning this, that and the other. At
the end of the day, was.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
There somebody that stood out to you in that whole
international scene that you were in, that that that you
that you think back on, I mean as either being
really super tough for incredibly influential on you.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
I would say every country I went to, it was
like it sounds chroma like a cop out, but every
country I went to, there's something that I learned, you know,
whether it was Croatia, how we worked, how we worked
in the preseason, preseason and we you know, uh developed
to get ready for the season, or Italy. You know,
we're running in mountains and around rivers, and whatnot, you know,

(31:31):
all to get in shape, you know, but the one thing,
you know, the one common denominator of it all is
good basketball, right Good basketball is good basketball. I grew
up watching basketball in the eighties and that's how you know,
that's what teams did. They played good basketball as a team,
as a as a full unit. So you know, in

(31:55):
each country I went to, that was the challenge was
to you know, to you know, build into the team,
you know, find some type of syenergy with the team.
And it's like a whole new challenge. How can I
win with this team? You know what I'm saying. And
you know, ultimately that each one of those was a blessing,

(32:18):
you know, because you know, you had a different team.
And it's why I played so many positions. It's really
why I played one through four was because it just
depends on what this team needs, you know what I'm saying.
And there's countries where I had to be the score
there's countries where I had to be the defender. There's
countries where I just had to be a role player.
In Europe and SAT screens, roll, play good basketball, make

(32:41):
the right pass, hit the right shots, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
So, yeah, and you're you're you know, you're you're six six,
So I would imagine different leagues. That's that's probably big
for some leagues. It's small for some leagues where and
it sounds like you're you're you're just this whole hodgepodge
or just collect thing. Right now, When did coaching sort
of jump into your.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's funny, man, it's fun you asked that, because if
you would have asked me, you know, in the middle
of my career, I would have been like, no, heg no,
I'm done with this basketball thing I'm doing like, I'm
not going to do that. And I really told you, like,
there's never gonna be an end of my basketball career,
like I'm gonna be playing this forever, you know what
I'm saying. But you know, as you as you get

(33:27):
older and as you get closer to the end of
my career. So what really happened with me was when
I was I think thirty two, I had my well,
I guess I was like thirty, I had my first son,
and you know, I I was you know, had a
long career at that point, and I was thinking about,
you know, I want I wanted to go out on top.
I didn't want to be you know, the broke down

(33:48):
cars still trying to run the race, you know at
the end of the day. So I wanted to go
out on you know, my when I wanted to go out.
So what happened was I told my achilles. So I
told my achilles when my song was like one that year,
you know, and I didn't want to go out on
that either. So I rehab from that and I ended
up playing you know, four or five years after that,

(34:09):
which were probably the four or five best years of
my career. But to get back to your question, what
happened was as I started getting older, and I guess
probably in those five years and really through the whole
rehabilitation process with my achilles, you know, going from walking
to actually playing basketball again. You know, what happened was

(34:32):
I started working out with younger kids, you know, and
we do some of the drulls I would do, you know,
whether it was picking roll reads or you know, some
catch and shoot stuff or finishing stuff. And what happened
we you know, we'd work before practice or after practice
or in the off season on these things. I would
see these kids use that move in the game, you

(34:53):
know what I'm saying, And it worked, you know, and
I felt just as good as if I had made
the move on somebody, you know. And then that's when
I started thinking, you know, maybe this coaching thing is
for me. You know.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, Now, when you were rehabbing, were you in the
United States? You tell this time or is there someone
was it?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I came home. I had surgery here from a big
man from high school, Decor mckeev from my did my surgery.
Actually he was my he played with me in high school,
which is creaty. He did my my surgery. I did
my rehabilitation process mostly at USC and yeah, that was
a long process, nine nine months really talk going back

(35:34):
to me and then you went back overseas.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
But but so when you saw when you saw those
kids you're talking about that was in the United I was.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Both you know, that was not only during my rehabilitation process,
but really probably more during you know, going back to
play those next five years. You know what I'm saying,
and being kind of an older guy and coming off
an Achilles tear, which you know, I'm trying to shake off, Delsk.
I'm trying to get healthy. I'm trying to get some
explosiveness back, et cetera, et cetera. So getting in reps

(36:01):
and reps and reps and reps, and you know, each
each stop that I went to after that, I would
kind of take a young kid under my weight and
be like, hey man, let's go get this work in.
And then that's when that's when it happened, and you know,
you see him, you know, hit a guy would have
picked a roll read that we actually worked on and
it was dope, like a great experience.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
So that was sort of that out of you know,
sometimes we experienced things in our lives that we think
are a disaster at the time and the worst thing
that could happen, and it actually ends up sparking a
flame that will now guide you.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Through the rest of bigo.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
I mean, you're you think that that's the low point
of your life is you know, you get you're playing overseas,
you blow your achilles. You've always identified as a player,
and now out of that, all of a sudden, coaching
is bigger in you, and now you found probably what
you were you know, like all due respect to these

(37:05):
leagues in these other countries, but that was your past.
To the NBA and now you're in the NBA. But
it doesn't happen right away, so you end by playing
in Japan in twenty fifteen. You joined the Nets in
twenty and seventeen, so what was going on in the
interal just.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Took a year to just be me, hang with my
family and you were married at this time, and yeah, yeah,
and we had yeah, we had all I had all
three of my babies. They were little at the time.
So were they all born in different countries? No, so
they were all born at home, but they all traveled

(37:44):
to Japan. You know, my daughter Sidney will tell you
that I was in China and I watched her be
born on I think it was Skype back then, and
I saw my other two sons born. So she's a
little salty about that, but you know, she's my one
girl baby, so she's special anyway. So they were all
born at home, but they were you know, we we

(38:05):
all lived together in Japan, so they experienced that that
that time together.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
But so so you had were there other odd jobs
between before you got to.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Be a necessarily, I mean I kind of you know,
I was went back to Worrich County and it kind
of just got my life together, spend time with family friends,
catch up doing things that I wanted to do that
I couldn't do during the season, and whatnot. Figure out
the next movie and then figure out the next move,

(38:35):
you know, which I was didn't really know it was
going to be basketball. I ended up just going to
the summer league for uh to watch some of the
young guys that I worked out with back home play
and ended up running to a million people that I know,
you know, and start car conversations, to start catching up
with people and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
And you know, this opportunity was born out of that.
How did how did the next connection come about?

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Uh? So Seawn Mart's cow guy, Uh, I know him
as keiwe I know him as Shawn Marts. I know
him as keiwhe like he was a monster of college
dunck on on people and running people over. Regan was
a monster, you know, a little bit older than you, right,
you know you came in so I was in high school.
So I was in high school. But you know, those
teams were really good with Ale Grisby and those guys.

(39:27):
I mean those teams Monster Tony Gonzales, like, those teams
were a monster and part of the reason why I
went to college. And you know, but you know, I
knew him from back then. We had worked out together.
We had the same agent for for a little bit
of time, so we we had worked out together in
the off season a couple of years and whatnot, and

(39:48):
at that time he was with the Spurs and we
just kind of reconnected and kept the conversation going and
they turned into an opportunity in Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
So and it was you know, you're, you're you're kind
of come in at a low level and you're, you know,
you just try to do whatever you had to do,
video player development, I would imagine for somebody embarking on
their their coaching journey though, that was the perfect thing.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Absolutely, it's part of the process. So like you don't
realize it, but like, you know, you don't just jump
into coaching, right, Like coaching and really teaching at the
end of the day, in my opinion, so uh, you know,
if you're going to be a teacher, there's preparations that
you have to have to be a teacher, you know,
And it's you know, that's why I love coaching because

(40:35):
that's the challenge, right Like anything that I couldn't figure
out X and O wise, when I would fight it,
I could make up for physically by being sixty six
and being a point guard or shooting guard or whatever.
Coaching is one hundred day and zero. So it's all
teaching and trying to help somebody else execute or be

(40:56):
the best they can be. And that's teaching at the
end of the day. So I think all those steps
along the way, uh, you know, help me improve my
coach's voice, help me help me teach at the end
of the day, help me share, help other people understand,
and most of all, just helps to put stuff in

(41:18):
perspective from from my agle. You know, I've been playing
my whole career worried about how I can help the team.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Now now it's more about, you know, how can you
collaborate and build synergy with the guys that have very
different experiences in this sport and in life in general.
How can you take all of these different experiences, you know,
wrap them into one and all row in.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
The same direction. And you're you kind of found yourself
in a position that that didn't exist in the NBA
a few years ago in terms of all the teams
have now g League affiliates and you know there's that
back and forth between players and that synergy between the

(42:05):
G League and the NBA teams. You kind of were
the guy that you worked with those players who were
going MAC and fids and it kind of you're in
that player development. You're you're discovering young talent. You're trying
to breede that young talent. And one of those guys

(42:26):
that was on the Long Island Brooklyn Shuttle for a
while there when he's young players, Nick Claxton. I would
imagine it gave you sort of a of a unique
bond with Nick. What did you see in Nick as
sort of that young gazelle coming into and and and
his time in the G League and what that did.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
For that Yeah, it was, uh, you know maybe Nick
was was you know, first of all, when were drafted Nick,
like the draft hone went crazy, you know what I'm saying,
And yuh, you know it was it was It was
great to see that, right. But you know the first
thing that stood out to me with Nick was just
how skilled he was at everything. He was good at everything.

(43:10):
You know, I always talk about like a tool belt
as a player, you know what I'm saying. He had
tool on it. You know, tools when when I came
through in eighties nineties basketball, you had like one or
two or three tools and you were just mastering those
tools and and you know that's what you ran with.
I mean, this kid came in and had like twelve thirteen,
fourteen tools on it on his belt, and I was like,
you could do all that. You can dribble and handle

(43:32):
and pass and do all that. You know, as you
get to know him, you know, you know that you know,
he played guard when he was younger and he was smaller,
and then he hit a growing spurt and then you
know started playing you know, as a big and so
you know, along his journey, along his path, he developed
so many different tools, you know. So I think the
challenge with Nick was, first of all, he was super

(43:55):
young coming out of school, you know, still a teenager
basically on it. And you know, one thing is you know,
nowadays with so much you know, with social media there
and you know, all these different coaches, trainers, all this
other stuff going on, it kind of gets blurrid sometimes.
I think, you know, uh, a lot of these kids

(44:17):
do a lot of skill work, and they know, you know,
they end up having so many different tools, but then
they don't always know when to use it, when and
where to use it, you know, how to apply them,
you know what I'm saying. And so I always can
you know, I was compared it to a construction job, right,
like if you had to screw you wouldn't like bust
out your hammer to screw your screw it. You know
what I'm saying, you know, And so it was the

(44:40):
challenge for us was trying to connect those things. You
know what I'm saying. When do I get my hammer out?
When do I get my sandpaper out? When do I
get my rich out? Whatnot? You know what I'm saying.
And that's been our Jared, that's been our challenge. And
respect to him because he keeps digging into him and
just trying to master one by one by one by one.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, and he and he when I you know, I
remember last year or the year before when he just
started to you know, really improve. And I talked to
him after a game on the air, we do an
interview and said, you know, who's the guy, who's your
who's your guy? And he's like Ryan Fohan, Kelly Man,
that guy is the guy that brought it out of me.
And you've been a You've been a big part of
his journey. And just to see a player jump like

(45:23):
he did from you know, last offseason and have the
kind of year that you had this past year, it
sounds like there's a lot that goes into it. Not
just you talk about tools and young players have tools,
but when you're a developmental coach and you're trying to
develop players, I would imagine from even a star player

(45:47):
to a young player, there's a lot more to it
than just the tools, you know, the physical tools. There's
got to be something that clicks in these guys as well.
And I imagine you kind of take a holistic approach
to it, right, not just not just physical, but their
mental aspect, their professionalism, their work ethic, the kind of

(46:09):
person they are, how they treat everybody around them. Is
that all going into your development of a young player.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah? Absolutely absolutely. I mean, you know, you talk about
a young player like it's basketball is fun, it's all good.
But you know there's a life thing too, you know
what I'm saying. So you know, uh, it's kind of
in tandem. You know, we're trying to I'm trying to
share and you know, share my experience and my knowledge

(46:37):
in life and in this game with you, you know,
and and doing that. You know, there's a certain relationship
that goes into it, right, Like we've got to be
able to communicate, be able to listen and talk to
each other, collaborate, you know, set goals and then and
then go reach it. You know what I'm saying, And
you know, cheers the nick. You know, we kind of

(46:58):
built that relationship. You know, It's first thing I always
want to do, like I want to I don't ever
want to, uh, you know, tell you how to play
or this that or the other. I just want to
share my experience and my knowledge is this game with you,
and you take your knowledge experiences game, and let's collaborate
and let's put it down and let's execute it and
see how high how far that takes us. You know

(47:19):
what I'm saying. And you know, the beginning of that
process is creating a relationship. You know, getting to know
each other. With each other is about who you're about,
what their family about. And this kid, this kid came
in with you know, a great family, great support system
behind them, great foundation in this thing. Wow. So yeah,

(47:41):
you know it was it was a unique experience. It
seems like it's been twenty years that we've been on
this road. But respect to how far that's just respect
to how far he's come in this few years that
we've been being cracking at it. And the last day
was saying is you know, I'm not going to take
the credit for that. Like he's done work, and he's
put the people around him to help him do that work.

(48:04):
So you know, it's an organizational thing. It's a family
thing that people from his neighborhood, from his school, people
that he worked out with in high school, in college,
et cetera, et Cetera's collaboration and totality.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Curiously, the mechanics Ryan of of how you the people
watch on TV they see and this has changed a
lot over the years. I you know, when I came
into the league, there were three assistant coaches, you know,
and one video guy who's back in lock. Now there
are there's a whole row in the first row of
assistant coaches in the second row. You've been in the

(48:40):
second row. What is the approach you take during a game?
Will you talk to players? Do you just if you
see something, you say something? Do you have to avoid
too many voices talking to guys. I'm just curious of that,
of what it's like to be in that second row
as an assistant.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, we all have different duties, right, Like it's kind
of broken up. I mean, whether it be tracking fouls
you know, uh, you know tracking uh, you know, opponent calls,
whatever it is, you know, video replay, whatever it is. Right,
there's like all these different things that they gave thanks

(49:21):
that are kind of divided up amongst the staffs. So
we all kind of have our own duties and whatnot.
That's part of it, you know. The other part, you know,
in terms of talking to players, like we all talk
to all them, you know what I'm saying. Maybe some
of us talk to certain players more about screening or
rebounding or descending, and you know, other coaches talk to

(49:45):
other players about you know, shooting or you know, execution
of offense, et cetera, et cetera. So it kind of
it kind of goes in in tandem with what your
duty is, if that makes sense. So that's kind of
my role during the game is to hold hold the
standard of the duties that I'm in charge of.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
The iPad is pressure, right, the uh when when there's
a questionable call and Shockball turns and looks at you guys.
You got to have an answer, right, what's tricky?

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Man? That one's that one's scary. It is tricky. You
never know how they're gonna you know, how they're gonna
unfold it. It almost seems like the ones that are
like guarantee this one's gonna get turned back turned over
are the ones that don't get and vice versa. So yeah,
that's a perfect example of just a duty game duty.
You know, you got to be on top of it
or get better at it as you go along. You know,

(50:43):
you get better in that example, you get better at it.
What is questionable? What should we fight for? We shouldn't
we fight for? And it's quite frankly, it's a new rule.
So it's not just on that one person, it's on
all of us, you know, just kryd of figure out, Hey,
winning the game, are we going to use and how
do we want to use it? Why do we use it?

(51:04):
Et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
So it's amazing to watch all you guys now because
there are, like we mentioned, there used to be a
time where they were just you know, three assistant coaches
Now now it's almost like the coaching staff is a
team in itself. I mean you have you have player,
you know, guys like you. You've got some younger guys
who are former players that are just there to work

(51:25):
out guys, And it's like you have a you have
a you have a team in itself that's got a
that goes into battle in practice, in warm ups.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
It's changed a lot. Do you still is it?

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Is it a physically taxing job for you at forty
two years old or forty three years.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Old, Yes, and no, I mean it's definitely physically taxing,
but it also keeps you safe. So uh yeah, you
know we're doing a lot of physical stuff, but I mean,
you know that's do while we cand so blessed to
be doing that, you know. I think also going to
your point of just how many resources are here, you know,

(52:08):
I think that's what makes our organizations special, is you know,
is the culture. How many people are involved in investing
in these kids and helping them reach their full potential,
whether that's front office, coaching staff, performance analytics, you know,
you name it. Like, there's so many different things. There's

(52:30):
so many different resources that are on hand. For these guys,
you know, and you know, I think that's what makes
us special to you. And you got to stay enthusiastic
throughout it all. I mean through the late nights and
the travel, and it's just keeping these guys up right
and keeping them focused on what they can. Yeah, it's

(52:51):
a game of challenge, isn't it. You know, it's like life.
It's a reflection of life. It's just a game of challenges.
You know. You take a challenge, you win it or
lose it, and you learn it, you learn from it,
and you move on, you know. And so you always
compare this thing to like math. You know, it's like
a you know, a bunch of a series of math
equad you know what I'm saying. Like you just go
buy one by one and you figure out this answer,

(53:13):
and then you go to the next one figure out
that answer, you know, and our challenge just comes you know,
the you know, collaboration in doing that, you know what
I'm saying. So, whether that's one player and one coach,
whether that's coaching staff and a team, whether that's a
performance staff in the team, whatever it is, you know,

(53:35):
the faster you can collaborate and use your knowledge and
experience in solving that equation, the faster you can move
on to the next one, and the faster you stack
these equations up, the further out ahead you get in
this very competitive bit.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Jacques Vaughan, you've had a number of years now to
work under Shock as a as an assistant when he
was there, now he's the head coach. What has been
the thing that has stood out to you the most
about your time with Jacques?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
You know, his dedication, his determination, his resilience, you know,
very competitive, very competitive. I mean you know that from
when he played, and you know he takes that same
energy into coaching. You know, the first year I was
actually on the staff was really in the bubble, and
that was with jv as as the leader, you know,

(54:32):
captain of the boat. And that was a weird ship.
That was a weird ship to be on, right, to
be in the bubble and everything that's going on man
going on in the world and in the league and
what you know with our team, et cetera, et cetera.
So you know, just his dedication to this whole thing,
to this team, to you know, to the team winning,

(54:53):
his determination and in helping these guys be the best
they can be. And then you know, I say is
because he's never wavered. His character has never wavered through
everything that we've been through as an organization. Everything you know,
whether you win the game, lose a game, et cetera,
et cetera. So you know, I guess the one thing

(55:15):
that stands out to me is just watching him developed
Charis Lavert right when we first got him, and you
know how meticulous he was in planning for the workouts
and how focus he was in building his tool belt
and what tools need to come first and when and
where to you know, when and where to use these tools,

(55:37):
teaching him those things, and so you know, I was
blessed to just be rebounded for him sometimes you know
what I'm saying, and just hear the conversation between those
guys or you know, being token defense or whatever. You know,
So early on it was a blessing just seeing how
he operates, how he teaches, and you know, a lot

(55:58):
of those things I still use.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
And I guess me, Mark got now higher. You get up,
the less of that you end up doing. But the
influence you have on your other coaches and your younger
coaches is really where the legacy is for those guys.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah, that's right, that's right. And your character speaks for itself,
you know what I'm saying, just in life. So you know,
the way you carry yourself is going to tell you
who you are. You know what I'm saying. And you know,
character is one of the biggest things I respect about
j V. Like I said, you know, in terms of
his character, never waving wavery you know what I'm saying.
That lets you know that you know, this is solid person.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Right, he had he had a bamboo plant that you
took to Orlando right in the bubble. What was the
metaphor they use for that? So so so you know, yeh,
JV's a cerebral brother too.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Now you know what I'm saying. Kansas got can tell
you know, Jay how Pass you know what I'm saying.
You know, uh, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's but
cerebral point guard, you know what I'm saying, all of
the you know, cerebrals. So you know, it was interesting
because you know, part of the teaching right is is
communication right, and it's a two way street. You know,
you gotta listen and you know you gotta you also

(57:12):
gotta you know, communicate and so you know, the thought
behind the bamboo was bamboo. Bamboo, you know, will bend
but won't break, right, That's what makes it unique. So
you can bend it. You know, it's malleable enough to
bend into the shape that you wanted to bend, but

(57:32):
then it's strong enough to not break when it gets there,
you know what I'm saying, or not get brittle, et cetera,
et cetera. And so, you know, overall and short, that
was kind of the theme of that he brought it,
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
It was like a little nascot and yeah, carried it around,
carried around.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
It was that important to us, you know what I'm saying.
And respect because you know, that's kind of how that
team was built. You know, we had some roster guys,
We had some guys that weren't on our roster. We
have some guys that played a lot, We have some
guys that didn't play at all, you know, in the
beginning of the season, you know what I'm saying. And
so you know, the the thought of that Bam Blue,
you know what I'm saying, really kind of you know,

(58:14):
our team kind of reflected that we were strong, and
we were going to compete and we're going to put
it all on the line. I have no regrets and
we're gonna see what happens in the end. Yeah, we
did that, ar Honster.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Is this information putting it in the mind of your
players something to think about that always has their short
of their course correct? You know your north star. You
see that thing as a representative of that. That's a
big part of what coaching is. You know, we get
caught up sometimes and the x's and o's, but it's
about bigger. It's about motivating people. And I and I
think you're you're a great motivator of Triple Ryan four

(58:46):
and Kelly, and I'm glad people have got to know
your your story here and your journey. It's uh, it's
a sircuitous route to where you are in Brooklyn right now.
I like to end these things, but just a little
glimpse into somebody in their persona. The great coach Jim
Valbano have that memorable speech at the Spies. They never

(59:09):
give up speech, and he said to do have a
full day, you need to do three things every day.
One is laugh, the other is is cry. But in
a way of you know, have your emotions moved and
the others think so if we if we go with
the the laugh part first, what recently or in general

(59:34):
makes you laugh?

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Ryan Forogan Kelly, whoa, that's a good child. I don't
laugh my kind of like a grew up you guy.
So I don't know. No, I'm just saying I laugh
all the time. That's a good question. What makes the
last place and played with and your journey all rout there?
I don't know, Uh, funniest, funniest player. That's a good question.

(59:59):
You know, gosh, it's a funny dude New York got
because because yeah, we played We played together in Croatia actually,
so you know, we had always played against each other
in China and always bouthering and whatnot, and then we
became teammates. Uh. But he wanted the fun of your dudes,
I know, because he a New York brother. You don't
talk much. But when he gets to talking, you know,

(01:00:21):
he gets to talking, then you know, he starts getting funny. Man.
You know, so I would say I would say, sham guy,
but you know, yeah, I don't know laughing wise, you know,
I think just things that make my make me smile, man, gross.
You know what I'm saying. I see my kids, you know,
developing now. They're playing basketball, baseball, lacrosse, daughters playing volleyball,

(01:00:44):
stuff like that. Man, just seeing them get better day
to day and competing and getting knocked down and then
getting back up and then doing it again and then
learning from it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
You know what I'm saying, to go back to God
Sha teacher, the sham guy when you're playing together.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
You know, my handle was all right, you know what
I'm saying, But it was more basic, you know. It's
more like back you down, like on some Matgin Johnson
Sam Cansale type thing. You know what I'm saying. Sam
was like, you know, bop op, you know all that stuff.
So I didn't ask him for the saram bell are
you will on every once in a while that that was.
I didn't really need that too on my belt. Yeah,

(01:01:22):
I didn't need that too on my belt, you know
what I'm saying. But it's something I use now when
these young punks try to try to try me, you know,
and we get on the court, you know, and you're
talking crazy alt you with this sham got big Dan
people't I have you to my little to describe it
over the years on the air, because you just see
it every once in a while where guys, you know,
you handle it with your right hand, you kind of
go like you're crossing over, but then you pull it

(01:01:42):
back with the same hand, right, got how you describe it? Yeah,
and and yeah exactly, And think about like the time
like that that that sham got moved traveled all around
the world, right and there was no social media and
it wasn't on the news and whatnot. But we were
in California. There they were in California trying sham god.

(01:02:04):
You know what I'm saying. And you know, respect to
Sam because there's Sam made it work beer. Sam was
the beast Internet about the origin of the sham God too,
because there was a player at Penn that did it
in an NCAA tournament game. And he's both he claimed,
you know, they claim that he was the originator and
then I don't know, but anyway, we digress. Yeah, yeah,

(01:02:27):
shout out shout out Sam God God, sham god man,
because he made it work. He made it a real
move and and uh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
And he had he actually just to use it for
all time great moves and one of the all time
great names in in basketball history.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
God sham God, there we go. Yeah, and he's one
of the all time great people. Man, So win wait winno.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
The the the the funny, the the the cry part
not necessarily something in a sad way, but something that
moves you, can easily move you to, uh, to feel
your emotions or something recently that's you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
When you will you know, when you get older, you
know what I'm saying, you start to get a little
more teary eyed over stuff. You know what I'm saying.
That's at least my experience, you know. So you know,
I don't know if I really set it here, but
there's been times where you know, you kinda get get
ready to set it here when you see some of

(01:03:24):
these guys achieve the things you know that they've been
working so hard for, you know what I'm saying. You know,
I don't know if I have an example off the
top of my head, but you know that that achievement,
you know, just to watch somebody work so hard and
and build and build and build and get knocked down
and give it back up and then actually achieve it.

(01:03:44):
Like as a coach, that's special, right, Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Good think part just you know, you get the oculus
outside Barkley Center. Everybody comes up through the subway, walking
around that neighborhood, coming in, tens of thousand people coming
into that building, every you know, for an event, if
you could put something on that ocula, it's just the
message or something you wanted people to think about. Is
there may be something that you live by that you

(01:04:12):
would put up there for everybody to see.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
You know, that's a good question. You know, these last
you know, five years of life, right like from my
vantage point, right like, one thing that stands out to me,
and a term that I use often is just to share,
you know, like share with one another. You know, I feel,
like we said earlier, like just when we collaborate at things.

(01:04:40):
You know, when a group of people collaborated at something,
it's that much strong, more strong, that much stronger when
we collaborate, you know what I'm saying. So you know,
share would be my thing. We need to share with
each other, you know what I'm saying. Whether that's how
to do something, when to do something, why to do something?

(01:05:03):
You know, that's kind of been my That's kind of
the thing that stood out to me. Share with one another.
And then that's how we learn it. That's how we
move forward. That's how we a little book wanted and
everything grow. Everything we needed to learn we learned in kindergarten.
And what do I think about when you're in kindergarten? Right,
they want you to share, share your stuff. That's a
great message. There you go, there you go. So I'm

(01:05:25):
not so far off, there's no road, so far off
with that. I thought maybe I was crazy thinking that brand.
I'm not so far off. No kindergarten, level, kindergarten. It
was worked in kindergarten.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
And I say, you know, everybody, life gets complicated as
we get older, and there's so many more things in
level it. But yeah, like they say, if you want
to you want to be able to understand something, be
able to teach it to a five year old, right,
And and that's the that's the key. And you know
we get very uh yeah, we get elaborate with things,

(01:05:55):
but it's yeah, little little simple messages like share can
help you whether or not you're at the kindergarten table,
or you're in the locker room of an NBA team
so or on the basketball court.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
I was gonna say the same thing you know, just
simplifying stuff. You know what I'm saying. The Dame's got
so complicated and whatnot. It's the same simple game, you know,
So simplifying stuff is something that we try to do.
One of my favorite people in that organization. I'm glad.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
I'm glad people got a chance to to get to
know you a little bit here, and thank you so
much for coming on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Hey man, it's honor, It's honored. It's funny you say that,
because every time I see you, I feel the same way.
You know, I want to have a conversation, and I
probably bug you too much, you know what I'm saying,
But uh, it's always honored. It's always honor uh to
talk to you, and it's uh, each conversation gets better.
I think that's why. That's why I keep coming back.

(01:06:52):
So I'll be back. Next time you see you, I'm
gonna walk up on you and talk to you. I
look forward to it. RFK.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Thanks all right, My thanks to Ryan foroerehand. Kelly really
one of my favorite people in the NETS organization and
great to speak to him. I'm glad you got to
hear his story and his basketball journey and We're going
to continue to do that with some members of the staff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Adam k.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Porn is going to be a guest coming up on
the next episode, and he's a guy that has a
great story as well, coming from Australia going to Saint
Mary's and then you know, making his way to the
Long Island Nets and now with the Brooklyn Nets.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
We had an interesting chat there, so tune in for.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
That and remember, please subscribe to the Voice of the
Nets and you'll be updated every time we put out
a new episode. I'm going to leave you with this,
considering that we are talking about getting better. It's the
title of a song from one of my favorite artists,
Frank Turner, and I got to see him recently on

(01:07:56):
Peer seventeen in Manhattan. If you've ever been there, you know, oh,
it's an incredible venue. Basically, if you ever watched the
anything on ESPN, like Get Up or any of those
shows where they're in New York and you have that
backdrop outside the window, you could see the East River
and the Brooklyn Bridge. Pier seventeen is the roof of
that building. It's an incredible venue. The artist is on

(01:08:19):
a stage looking at the statue of Liberty. The audience
is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge and it was a
great show. But there's a song called get Better, so
those become my theme song. I had a theme song.
They threw me a whirlwind and I spat back to
see I took a battering, but I've got thicker skin

(01:08:39):
and the best people I know are looking out for me,
like my producer Steve Goldberg, engineer Isaac Lee, and all
of you listening. Thank you so much for checking us
out and subscribing to the Voice of the Nets.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
I'm Chris Carino. Talk to you next week.