Episode 31: Hooping Around the World with Leigh Ellis

After a decade talking NBA on TV and podcasts, Leigh Ellis is taking his game around the globe with the goal of playing 20 pickup games in 20 countries. He talks with Chris about love of the game and the journey so far.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, what's going on. It's Chris Garno. This is the
voice of the Nets. Today we talked with Lee Ellis.
You know him from his UH his group. He used
to be with the Starters on NBA TV and now
he is branching out on his own where he'll travel
the world playing pickup basketball games in exotic locations and

(00:30):
meeting all kinds of interesting people. It's a great story.
We'll talk about him and his journey. UM And at
the end, of course, I always ask referencing the old
Jim Valvano sp speech about what makes you laugh, cry
and think, and when we talk about the part about
what makes you cry in general, whenever I talk about

(00:52):
it with with people here on the broadcast, UM, many
have made reference who are around the NBA game and
made reference to seeing athletes and what they go through,
what they sacrifice, UM and it makes them emotional. Earlier
this week, as we take this during the All Star break,

(01:13):
Kevin durant Uh was given an introductory press conference in
Phoenix and he was asked a question by Nick Fredell,
who was covering the Nets when he was with ESPN.
He's still with the ESPN was covering the Nets at
the time when Kevin Durant was there and he went
out to Phoenix, and now he's in this big setting,
which as an aside, I don't love when there's big

(01:37):
crowds of the public at a press conference situation where
reporters are asking questions and they have to ask tough
questions sometimes, and Nick is not afraid to ask those questions.
And he brought up the question to Kevin Durant of
how would he characterized his four years with the Nets?

(01:57):
And he got booed because I think the fans there
felt like Fordell was kind of asking a tough question,
putting Kevin Duran on the spot. And reporter shouldn't worried
about getting booed by a bunch of people when they
ask a question. Press conforts. But anyway, um, it was
a great question, and I think it was something that
all NET fans wanted to hear. What were his thoughts?

(02:20):
How was he going to describe his years in Brooklyn?
Was he going to burn the bridges? Was he going
to speak well of the organization? That's what people wanted
to know, and it probably would go a long way
to establishing the legacy of Kevin Duran. And what NET
fans think about his time with the Nets. So when

(02:41):
Kevin was asked this question, this is what he said.
He said, it was a lot of ups and downs,
but I loved the grind. Everybody in Brooklyn loved the
grind too, So I built a family over there. And
now Durant's boys started to crack a little bit. He
was he was starting to get emotional, and he said,
They're gonna always be a part of my journey. Wouldn't

(03:03):
accomplish what we wanted to accomplish as far as winning
a championship. Everybody there, we tried our hardest every day,
regardless of what was going on in the media, what
was going on with our teammates, everybody who was in
that gym, we grind it. I love those guys. I
get emotional talking about it, and you could hear the
emotion in his voice and it was genuine, And I

(03:27):
think what NET fans needed to hear as some closure
in this situation with Kevin Durant was that his time
with the Nets meant something to him, and he got
emotional thinking about coming back from the Achilles injury and
that the franchise was there to help him through that

(03:47):
at that difficult time, think about how that was to him,
not knowing whether or not he would go back to
the form that he was, but just whether he'd be
able to come back at all. How much the game
means to him, and the fact that he was able
to rehab from a serious, a serious Achilles injury to

(04:09):
come back and play at the level that he that
he came back and played at, So the fact that
he got emotional, that it meant something to him his
time with Brooklyn, and that at the end he wished
the Nets well and he said they have a bright future.
And then Net's listen, That's did right by him, right
when all the stories came out about wanting to get

(04:30):
him where he wanted to go, and when that fans
think back of it, When I think back of it,
you know, I think I think Kevin was coming to
a place of gratitude. I think you never go wrong
if you if you come at things from a place
of gratitude and a feeling of gratitude. And he showed
gratitude for his time with the Nets. I know, from

(04:51):
a personal standpoint, I'm grateful that I had the privilege
of calling his games one of the greatest players to
ever play in the NBA, played for of nets and
I get a chance to call all those games, and
I've got great memories of watching him when that guy played,
and he always wanted to play. He wanted to play,

(05:14):
and he gave it everything every game. He just poured
it all out there on the floor and you could
sense that. And I think net fans know that, And
I think net fans are grateful for the time they
had with Kevin Durant. They're grateful for how gracious he
was here at the end. I don't know if he'll
be regarded down the road with the kind of affection

(05:39):
that certainly Jason kidd Um, guys like Vince Carter, Draws
and Petrovich, even Brook Lopez, people like that, some of
the all time you know, favorite net players who were
great players or you know, did something great with the nets. Um.
I don't know if he'll be in that category. Just

(05:59):
because of the promise and then just didn't play enough.
Uh you know. I remember he didn't play his whole
first year because of the achilles injury. Then the second
year he had the hamstring injury cost him a bunch
of games. The next two seasons. He had the mcl
sprain in both season including this year, and and it

(06:20):
kind of you know what. So I don't know if
he's gonna be looked at in regard of those other guys,
but he'll be looked back. I think fondly. He'll get
that tribute video when he comes back to play, and
the fans will cheer him. Um, I don't think they'll vote.
I don't think they'll boote. So I think that that's uh.

(06:42):
It was an important kind of closure on the Duran era.
And I also think what NET fans received back in
the deal also helps them look back more fondly on
Kevin Durant's time with the Nets. I got this tweet

(07:03):
and I and I've and I've gotten a few of
these like this, but I'm gonna I'm gonna bring up
this tweet from a woman named Erica on Twitter sent
me a tweet said, lifelong Sons fan and a new
NETS fan here, McKellen cam are to my all time
favorite Sons. I'm heartbroken they're no longer in Phoenix, but

(07:24):
I'm thankful I can listen to watch NET games from Arizona.
NET fans will definitely love the Twins. They are amazing guys.
Go Nets. That's from Erica in Arizona, and I've seen
a lot of that sentiment and it reminds me. You know,
the Nets got mckel bridges, Cam Johnson four first round
picks in a pick swap for Kevin Durant. It's a

(07:44):
similar thing. Although when in the Hardened deal, I don't
think that um everybody was in agreement that they loved
James Harden coming back the way. I think a lot
of bands in Phoenix probably are thinking about Kevin Durant.
I don't know that's a polit couple year, but that
sentiment from Sons fans very similar, I think to the

(08:06):
sentiment of Net fans when they traded Carris LeVert and
Jared Allen in order to get Hardened. I think there
are a lot of NET fans who still think back
very fondly of Carris Labert and Jared Allen and what
those players can become and what they are blossoming into.
I mean, Jared Allen isn't making the All Star team

(08:28):
the year after he was with the Nets. Before the
All Star break, the final game before the All Star Break,
mcel bridges went out and put up a dominant effort
on both ends of the floor in a win against
the Miami Heat that sent the Nets into the All
Star Break with a victory. He had forty five points

(08:51):
and was dominant on both ends of the floor, and
I think a lot of net fans started to project, like,
we've been kind of thinking about this, um, can he
be that kind of two way player, that all star
that you can build a team around. Now, you don't
want to get too far ahead of yourself. It was
only the fourth time in his career that he scored

(09:13):
more than thirty points in a game. But he wasn't
really asked to be that kind of player in Phoenix.
You know, I had Devin Booker there. But that period
of time when Devin Booker was out, McAll Bridges started
to score a lot more. It started to show signs
that he can be that two ways start. You know,
think of what Jaylen Brown became with the with the

(09:35):
Boston Celtics, a guy who was known for his defense,
had another star on the floor was able to, you know,
become a score and become an All Star and become
a great all star two way player. I think he's
starting to project that with mcl Bridges, and that's something
to be exciting for the Nets. You know, they've got
twenty four games coming up after the All Star break.

(09:57):
It's a sprint to the finish. It's not the halfway point.
It is a sprint to the end. Can the Nets
hang on one of those top six spots in the East,
get to the playoffs and see what happens. Can they
figure out who they are between now and there. McAll
Bridges is going to have a lot to do with that.
He's also going to have a lot to do with
how you're feeling about this team going into the off season.

(10:21):
And net fans are grateful for that. It it helps
think more fondly on the Duran era knowing that you
are now in this place. And I also think that
Bridges is emerging as the leader here. You know, Jock

(10:44):
Mom was asked about who's the leaders now and they
talked about Dinwoody and Bridges, and Bridges are very humble
when he was asked about after the game against Miami
that didn't really want to step on anybody's toes. He's
gonna kind of let that grow naturally. He's gonna be
who he is and this will all grow organically, but
I think you can see it. I think you can

(11:06):
see it happening. So something to look forward to at
the as the second half the this sprint starts up
here for the nets in the last twenty four games,
our guest today, Lee Ellis. You know him from the
Starters from NBA TV. After that run ended, he ended

(11:27):
up being a podcaster with that group. And then what
ends up happening is Lee kinda kind of had this idea.
He's always been an adventurous guy. He's got this idea
and he and he part of it is that he
wants to get out from the the cubicle world, the

(11:48):
studio world, and get out into the world and combine
his love of travel, people and pick up basketball and
he's got some game. Lee Ellis and decides, I had
this idea. I'm gonna go out twenty cities, twenty games,
twenty countries, invite people to play pick up basketball with me,

(12:11):
meet these interesting people, playing some really exotic locations, and
see what could come out of that. Maybe there's some content.
And you can go to his YouTube channel. It's Lee
l e I G H Ellis E L l I
s Instagram at Lee Ellis Twitter at Lee Ellis, and
he's hopefully gonna grow this into something bigger content wise.

(12:34):
You can see it as a Netflix special something like that.
I think that's the the overall dream here. Um, so
we get into all the process how that came about,
you know, his journey. Yes, he has a family. How
do you talk to your wife and kids about Yeah,
I'm I'm gonna I'm quitting my job and I'm gonna

(12:56):
leave my job and I'm gonna go out and play
pick up basketball around the world. Okay, as at work.
There's a lot of great insight on on family, on
dreams and a basketball journey, a great story with Lee Ellis,
and of course we'll we'll talk about what makes him laugh,

(13:16):
cry think in a little post game right after this,
but right now here on the Voice of the Nets,
our conversation with Lee Ellis. So, Lee, where in the
world are you coming from today? Well, it's not all
that glamorous. It's just at home here in Atlanta, where
I've been living for the last nearly decade. I'm in

(13:39):
between trips right now, finished the first leg towards the
end of November last year, and I'm about to embark
on late two of this journey that I'm on, this
challenge that I'm on, and I'm very very excited for it.
It's amazing you could live in Atlanta for a little
while and then you pick up that accent. What I'm

(13:59):
here right now, I'm hearing it Southern New York. Now? Where, um,
where originally were you from? Where? Did? Where did Lee Ellis?
The the infancy stages of Lee Ellis's life happened? Well, ironically,
I've got a lot in connection with a couple of
Brooklyn Nets players in Ben Simmons and Kyrie Evan, because
I was also born in Melbourne. In fact, I used

(14:21):
to watch Ben Simmons dad Dave play for the Melbourne
Tigers with one of Australia's most famous players Andrew Gays
back in the late eighties. And then yeah, and then
Kyrie Eving was born in Melbourne. Um, he obviously didn't
spend a whole lot of time there, but I certainly
like to beat my chest and tell people how three
number one picks in the NBA have been born in Melbourne.

(14:42):
Andrew Bogatt two thousand and five, Kyrie eleven and Ben
Simmons in two thousand and sixteen. So it's one of
those little quirks that really is a big basketball base.
And I am very, very proud to be from Melbourne
and that's where I grew up. And like a lot
of people, once I got to of out of my
teens and into my early twenties, I just decided to

(15:03):
go traveling, doing a little bit of backpacking and things
like that, and that took me on a journey that started. Uh,
I don't even want to say, but it was twenty
five years ago when I first went backpacking and Unford
well unfortunately, I mean I just never went home one
sort of door open to another and now and now
here I am. Well, there's an adventurous spirit to you.
And we'll get into what you're doing now. But I
think you know, you mentioned like, well, everybody gets out

(15:25):
in their twenties and leaves their country and goes back. No,
not everybody does. There's a there's a there's a subset
of people, um that do that and have that adventurous
spirit to get out. Was that something that he was
always there for you as a young as a young person, Yeah,
I think it was. And I think added to that
the fact that I was born in Australia. As we said,

(15:45):
my mom was from England, so we traveled back to
England a couple of times as kids, and and then
Mom's family was also spread out. Actually still live in California,
in Carmel there in California. So I was very lucky
as a young boy. At five years old, my first
international trip was to London and then to Disneyland. I
went to Disneyland. So at the time, you know, when

(16:06):
you're five years old, you think, well, this is whatever
your kid gets at some point, but you know, and
then in addition to that, we did travel a lot.
Dad was very big on camping, and so we were
always trying moving around, exploring. I mean, we kept the
same house, but Dad liked to just get out and about,
and I think that is something that he has sort
of passed on to me. I always had an adventurous spirit,
and once I got to the age where I was

(16:27):
able to sort of look after myself, I decided I
really wanted to see what else was out there in
the world. Now I didn't plan it to be like this.
It was more one of those things that once you
get out and you see one place and someone says Hey,
you've got to check out this place. You go to
the next place, and the next place and so one,
and before you know it, you're like, oh my god,
there's so much of the world that I want to see.
And the more you see, the more you want to see.

(16:48):
And then you left Australia, did you You didn't have
any intention of moving and spending your life outside of Australia, right,
So what was the thing that kept you away from
going back? Well? I guess, um, I guess when I
started traveling, and I just started exploring more and more
cities and countries and continents than again, I just wanted

(17:09):
to explore me Now, I would go home and see
my family from time to time, and I'd get home
and after sort of a month or six weeks, he
was like, oh man, I've I've got itchy feet. I'm
not really missing out on anything here. I want to
go out and see more. Um. And then my intention
now in two thousand and six, I've been traveling for
moving around for about eight years. I was like, I
was in Toronto and I was there for one year,
and I'm working holiday visa, which is an agreement Australia

(17:31):
and Canadian governments have and I was like, I was single,
I had no real career, no real job as such.
I was doing working banks and things like that. But
I was like, I'm here for a year and then
I'm going back to Australia. Well about six weeks after
I arrived in Toronto, I met a girl and I
was like, okay, nothing, you know, nothing serious. I'm not staying.
Nothing serious. Well, we're about to celebrate our sixteenth year

(17:53):
of marriage this year. And so she's from Peruso, an
Australian and a Canadian. Australian and a Peruvian met in
Toronto and they live in Atlanta. And uh yeah, so
and my two boys, one boy, my son was first
our first son was born in Toronto, and our second
one was born here in Atlanta. So all four of
us were born in different countries and different Roxanna Roxana,

(18:15):
and the kids Sebastian and Oscar. And they are, how
well ten and six. All right, so what do they
all think when you decided, all right, I'm going to um,
I'm going to take a little holiday sabbatical from my job.
But we all know you as as part of the starters.
And then you guys went on to do the podcast
at the Athletic and now you're gonna you're gonna kind

(18:37):
of take a little break from all that and go
explore the world and play pick up basketball. So what
was that conversation like. Originally, honestly, my wife was incredibly
supportive because I did leave my job that I had
done for eleven years with the busball Jones no dunks
and starters guys, and it was a big decision to make.
But it wasn't just based on nothing. Every time I

(18:58):
have traveled, I would often try to play pick up
basketball in whatever city I is in, and without really
knowing what the what the traction would be, I would
put our clips on Instagram and Twitter and things like that,
and I would get so many messages from people who
knew me from the show, would say, if you're in
my city, if you're in my country, come on out.
I'll play with you. I'll set up a game, we'll
do this, and then we'll eat some local food and

(19:20):
drinking things like that. And the more and more it happened,
I said to my wife, like, I wonder if I
could turn this into a career because I love traveling
and I love playing basketball. I love meeting people and
trying new foods and things like that, and so we
gave it some thought and and you know, look, she
obviously taking on some of the risk herself, just simply
because we're married and you know, we we have mortgage

(19:41):
to paying things like that. But she's really the sort
of person who encourages these sorts of challenges. She really
wants me and asked as a family to not just
sort of accept, Okay, well we have to work. Do
you do a job, pay mortgage and then travel when
we can. If you, if you can really turn this
into something and give it your best, then you've got
to go for it. And you know, I've made the
reference before she grew up in Peru, where you know,

(20:04):
the state of the economy was unstable and you know,
there was always terrorist threats and things like that, so
she understands real risk. This for her is more like
this is a career challenge, and you know, if you
really believe in it and you really give it your
best chance, who knows what it could turn into. And
I mean, ultimately, I do hope I can turn this
into some sort of series that will be picked up

(20:25):
by one of the streaming services. You know, Netflix, Amazon Prime, whoever. Um,
So she's fully, fully on board and fully supportive. And
so once you have that support from the most important
person in your life, you really can't afford to not
take that challenge. So um, it's been it's been incredible
to have her support. And and my boys, I mean,
they basically just want to know what souvenirs I'm bringing

(20:46):
back from from the destination. My six year old, you know,
my ten year old when I came back from the
first trip, had a big hug and we you know,
embraced there for a minute or so. He missed me.
My six year olds unzipping the bags, where's my staff? Dad?
Un example for them, And I'm sure they'll grow up
with kind of uh, you know, a spirit of let's
get out there and explore, um and follow your dreams. Really,

(21:09):
I mean, and that that's what a lot of this
to me is about. UM, A lot of this about
following your dreams and your passions. And this is not
so much. And and you know, I'm a compliment. You
mentioned your wife's background, So it's not that kind of
typical American practical thinking where where somebody like me would
come at it like all right, well, how are you

(21:31):
paying for this, how are you doing this? What kind
of job are you leaving to? Can you go back
to that job? Like because in a way there's this
romanticism about it, like if you had been a lawyer
or a doctor or something and you said, well, I'm
giving up my practice to go play pick up basketball.
But then in a sense you always know you can
go back to the practice when you're leaving something like

(21:51):
sports media. We know how highly competitive that is, whether
with a short shelf life some of these outlets have.
So it's more of a risk that you're taking going
away and then try and get back into it, which
a very competitive industry. Yeah, it is if you want
to go back. Yeah. I mean the counter to that,
which I have you know, said to other people is

(22:13):
there was a bigger risk though for me and not
trying something like this, because you're right about the sports
meter it's a fickle industry. But also the NBA is
not going anywhere. It's not like in two years time
the league won't exist and there won't be other opportunities.
So if the state everybody talking how much lowered management
is killing the sport and think it will still be
here and you yeah, And and that to me is

(22:34):
also I think it's it's a good thing to sort
of test myself whether or not it is time for
a change in career, whether or not it is time
to try to do something else. Because I had a
fantastic job. I truly loved everything I did about it.
You know, we were on NBA TV for six seasons
and the starters, excuse me, the no dumb screw for
the last three years and talking about basketball with your friends,

(22:55):
going to the finals and All Star weekend. That is great.
But there was just this this this part of me
that was like, I just I really need to find
out if I can turn this all these messages that
I get from people, all these people saying come out
and play, if I can turn it into something, And
the only way to do it is simply to sort
of jump into it head first, because if you wait
for the timing to be right for a lot of

(23:16):
things in life, you really wouldn't do anything. I mean,
starting a family, buying a house, I mean, all those
things have that risk of like, well, you know, this
is a huge life changing moment. And I just reached
that decision where I was like if I'm going to
do this, well my body can still allow me to
do it, Now is the time to do it. And
so in order to take this step, I realized there
was a big sacrifice. But again, I didn't want to

(23:38):
be sitting in the same situation in a year or
two time, wondering if this could have happened. So that,
to me is what really motivates me and inspires me.
That it's like, go for it, give it a shot,
and you just don't know how things are going to
turn out. But if you give it your best, it's
I mean, I sound like a player here. You know,
if you leave it all out on the court, you
can take a loss, you know it. A loss isn't

(24:00):
a failure. Loss isn't a bad thing if you gave
absolutely everything. I mean, you know, Kevin Durank can have
forty five points. It doesn't mean the nets it's going
to win every single game. It's just the way it goes.
You know, you've just got to try your best and
see how things work out. Or you in your lead forties,
let's say mid forties, you know you can't play pick up.
You know, I can see you being the old guy

(24:22):
in the park, you know, still still beating people, you know,
with your craftiness. So I guess there is a Yeah,
there is a shelf life too when you're gonna go
and play and pick up basketball around the world. Yeah,
I mean, I don't want to beat my own drum
too much here, but I can shoot, okay, So I
think that's that goes exactly exactly. So I look, I'm
not beating anyone off the dribble anymore. That that that
that was a few years ago when I last did that.

(24:44):
But I think as well, when you're the organizer, you
can basically just go three point line to three point line.
You know, you defend the perimeter and if the ball
comes through, your fire away. So you know, look, I'm
not but that's the other thing. I'm not trying to
become some street ball legend or somehow may get into
the NBA. And it's fun. This is for me where
basketball started. The whole reason I do what I've done

(25:05):
is because I fell in love with basketball as a kid,
and I'm like, I'm just playing again for fun, and
this time I'm going around the world to do it. Well.
That that's what stood out when you guys hit it
big with the starters at NBA TV, the thing that
stood out was, here are a bunch of fun guys.
Haven't fun? Like that was just that's the thing. The
first word that pops out when you think of the

(25:26):
star is fun. You know, they just love the NBA,
They love being around each other, They loved having fun.
And this is kind of just almost like the evolution
of that for you personally. It is, it really is,
because you know when people when we first started on
NBA TV, people rightfully said, you know, who are these guys?
Know what? None of us have played in the NBA,

(25:48):
none of us were former pros at any level. But
basketball was about entertainment and about joy and about fun.
And so many of my life experiences have revolved in
one way or another around basketball. Like as a kid,
when you start playing, we would go to the stadium
on the weekends and that was a whare you would
have social interactions with, you know, kids, boys and girls.
You know you start meeting as you get into your

(26:08):
teenage years. There we also knew a lot of family friends.
You might be playing against one of your friends one
game and then he's refereeing the next time, you're playing
against him. So it was a real community event and
it taught me so many things about life and social
skills and education. And then as I became an adult
and I started traveling once again, basketball often was the

(26:29):
the sort of catalyst to what I was doing. Like
I went to Russia one year and I went to
a basketball game in Russia and it was like a
great experience. There in Brazil, I was walking along and
I was I was in this beach town just south
of Rio, and there's a court there and this kid playing,
and so I started shooting around with him. Now I
didn't speak very much Portuguese and he didn't speak in English,
but basketball was the language that we both spoke, and

(26:52):
before you knew it, we started playing. A few other
people turned up and we started playing. And so that
to me is what basketball is. It's it's all luage itself. Um,
and it's also a connection with people. And it's amazing
how you can play a game of pickup basketball and
instantly you sort of start to go from strangers to
teammates and you form a little bit of a bond there.

(27:13):
The one time, just recently in Belgrade, I was at
a court and there was these three rushing guys playing
and they saw me immediately and they were like, great,
we need another guy here for two on two. And
there was broken Russian and English and they basically just
said you and him, and I said, okay, great. And
then you start running a little pick and roll, you
start bouncing the ball, you start finding what the other
guy can do, and immediately, to me, that just sort

(27:33):
of breaks down any barriers right away. You don't you know,
you don't need to know the guy's name or or
anything about them. You can just play. And the same
thing happens in in Frankfort. I was shooting around on
the court and this girl just turned up and started
shooting and plays. She said you want to play and
I was like, yeah, great. And so basketball just has
this away of this ability to sort of bring people

(27:54):
together where we all know the basic rules of the game,
but it's all about having fun at the end of
the day. And that's what I love about it. By
the way, you could see a lot of those videos
on Lee's YouTube channel, which is Lee Ellis seventy six.
You spell Lee L E I G H and then
Ellis seventy six on YouTube and then on Twitter and Instagram,
at Lee Ellis. Wait to see some of those videos.

(28:16):
You can see that the girl came up to you
there and in Germany and the trick shots, and you
mentioned some of the places you played, some of the
beautiful venues that you played. I want to get into
that in a little bit here in the conversation. But
you touched on um where your love started. How did
how did the love of the NBA start for you?

(28:37):
So growing up in Australia in the late eighties, there
there was no internet or cable TV, and we we
knew about Dr J and Larry Bird and Magic Johnson
and of course Michael Jordan, but we couldn't get access
to highlights. And then one day my brother, who's old,
I'm the third of three boys, he came home with
a copy of the All Star Game. Now, if you're
not familiar with that game, that to me is still

(29:00):
maybe the greatest basketball game in history because the Western
trailing by two points with three seconds to go, Orlando
Blackman drives inside, four East players jump on him. You know,
that's when they did play defense. And All Star and
Isaiah Thomas, who was almost a flagrant fowl. Isaiah Thomas,
he had no intention of letting Orlando score. You know,
hits him anyway, So so time runs out. Rolando Blackman

(29:23):
the free throw line has to hit both these free
throws to extend the game, and he does that. It
goes to overtime in the West winds Now. At the time,
I was about eleven years old, and I was a
big w W E fan, you know, with Hulk Hogan
and King Kong Bundy and all that, and so I
used to watch wrestling and then I'd watched the NBA
this All Star game and you had a Keen the Dream,
Elijah One, Sir Charles barkb Magic Johnson. So it was

(29:45):
this real intertwining of of mythical names and stories. And
then on top of that, you had the most dramatic
ending of a basketball game in history that you would
think was scripted. That's that's basically any movie right there.
The hero hits the last shot and wins the game.
And so no, you you didn't follow the league, so
where like that was a game like you know, like

(30:05):
he didn't stand out as a well, it's the All
Star games like an exhibition. You were like, no, this
is the this is the game that was more important
than Game seven of the Finals, if you asked me,
because it was the best of the best and the
way it all happened, and so that to me was really,
like I tell people, that was when I was born
a second time, because then I was just so desperate
for any content of the NBA that I used to

(30:26):
write to the NBA head office. I even got a
couple of letters back from David Stern, you know, all
Hoop magazine, basketball digests, all this stuff would come in
months and months after it was released in the United States,
just because again it was it was the late eighties,
and so anything I could get hold of, I would
I would grab. In fact, a friend of mine, his
dad used to work for Quantas Airlines, and so he

(30:47):
was part of the maintenance crew, and after the flights
would come in from Los Angeles and San Francisco, he
would get USA Today with the box scores and just
give those to me. And I ended up, this is
the craziest thing. I ended up paying him to get
the USA Today. They's wrinkled up, you know, crinkled old newspapers,
just talking out of the seas exactly. Yeah, And after

(31:08):
my dad gave me pocket money one day, he gave
me five bucks. And then the next day I said, Dad,
can I have some more money? And he said, what
theme to the five bucks I gave yesterday? I bought old,
used up newspapers and he was like, oh my god.
So you you fall in love with the game. You're
trying to get as much as you can. Now, at
what point did it become where you could start talking

(31:29):
about it and making a living from it. Well that
that really didn't start until about two thousand and eight,
when I was now married and in Toronto with my wife,
and I was, as I said, before, I was working
in banks. I didn't really have a career that I
was enjoying. And this was when blogging started. You know,
people just started blogging. And I was like, okay, I'm
going to try now, and I'm just going to start
blogging away and I did on I think it was

(31:51):
blogged Spot was called at the time, and I didn't
really know where it was going. And then in Toronto
there was a sports media journalism school that opened and
I was like, well, maybe this is my this is
where it goes. That was incredibly expensive, and but again
my wife at the time was like, listen, let's let's
find a way to make this work because you might
be able to turn this into your career. And I
was able to then get an internship at the Score,

(32:13):
which you may be familiar with. It's a Canadian Yeah,
it's no longer existing the same as it did back then,
but I got an internship there, and then the Basketball Jones,
which was Skeets, Tas and j D at the time.
They also joined the Score, and so then after a
year or so we started working together. And then it
was during the lockout there in two thousand and eleven

(32:35):
where somehow I still don't understand how they did at
Skeets and and TAS and j D convinced the bosses.
They said, well, if there's no basketball, will take basketball
podcasts around America. And they went and we went on
a five week trip podcasting in in various cities around
the country. And they basically needed someone to come along
and carry their bags and get their coffees for them
in the morning. And they offered that to me, and

(32:57):
I said, yeah, absolutely, And so then we came back
think they announced it was round Thanksgiving. They said they
were coming back, that season was going to start on
Christmas Day and then we worked together in Toronto, and
then we joined the NBA TV team ten years ago
would have been two thousand and thirteen. We came down
for our first season. So it was crazy. I mean again,
if you were said to somebody back in the day,

(33:20):
some kid from Australia who watches the eight seven All
Star Game is going to find his way to NBA TV,
it wouldn't have made sense to anybody. So there's not
really like a blueprint that I followed. It was more
just opportunity and chance, trying a few things out and
some doors opened, and finding the rape woman because you've
mentioned it a couple of times here, Because when if

(33:42):
someone went through your career and your background and your story,
you would say, well, there's no way he could have
done this with a family or a wife. But you
had an encouraging woman in your life, gone all the
way back to your time in Toronto that got you
out of the banking industry and into your current career.
I hope she gets a nice Mother's Day present. She

(34:05):
likes to take full credit for my my career swing there.
But but the truth is, honestly, like so many, so
many things in life, So you know, happened because if
you have a strong partner and a strong supportive family life.
And and as I say, my my wife, she has
sacrificed in the part the she she's been the she's
the breadwinner in our family. She's always been very, very

(34:28):
good with her in her own career. And when we
left Toronto to come to Atlanta, she had to sacrifice
her own career development to a degree. She was able
to continue working, so it wasn't like she completely gave
up her career, but she had to make an adjustment.
But she was you know, she is somebody who again
she I'm her biggest fan. She is still my hero

(34:49):
and uh, you know, I don't mean to sound too
sort of corny or anything like that, but no, I
truly wouldn't be here if it wasn't for her. When
people are impassionate about their professions, and I have gone
through the US too, is um no more. It's it's
okay to not have a family or not have a
wife for whatever, and a lot of people go are
doing that on their own. But it's the best of

(35:10):
both worlds if you can do it. And a lot
of times it's hard because you don't get a parton
whose understanding. But I think like any like any Greek marriage,
it's like if you respect what the other is passionate about,
you don't want to make them choose between one or
the other. You have to be able to support them
in that. And then yeah, I mean it's a real partnership.
You know, it's not like one person that earns the money,

(35:32):
so the other person raises the kids and does the housework.
I mean, we we we truly do try to make
it so that, you know, I mean with our boys,
of course, there's always one they sort of think they
can get away with something rather than the other. But
we try to be consistent in our parenting. But but
also like last year, for example, when I was at
the finals in Boston, she took the boys. They were

(35:53):
on school holiday, she took them down to Lema to
see their grandma and some cousins and things like that,
and you know, so that's also great, Like, you know,
we we really try to encourage traveling with our boys
and having them understand where they came from and how
they all, uh you know, what their sort of history
is with life as well, and so uh, you know,
I try to support my wife in everything she doesn't

(36:14):
and she does the same, and it truly does feel
like we are each other's biggest fan in that respect. Yeah,
and sometimes you end up spending time away, but then
that gives them things that other kids wouldn't normally do.
Like I, I'd spent a lot of time away from
my family traveling with the Nets over the years. But
you know, my family also knows what it's like to
be with me in a city for a couple of

(36:35):
days during during the NBA playoff series and you know,
being in the stands in Chicago or Toronto when we've
had playoffs series, or you know, my wife was with
me at the finals, you know, the first two years.
So those are those are like little perks. They've gone
to London with the team and you know things like that.
So yeah, there's there's plus and minuses to everything. Um,
what's the longest that you spent away from your family

(36:56):
during this adventure that you're on. Yeah, well, seventeen days
when I went to the Balkans, And yeah, that that's
that's about as long as I can do. And again,
it's like I wasn't going to take off eight months
and say all right, I'm going to go and do
it all in one. It was. It was about trying
to manage around schedules. But again my wife was also like, look,
there's no point in going for a week to Europe

(37:18):
in that sense, like go for sixteen seventy days, see
what you can sort of jam in there and uh
and then and then you know, see how it goes
and so and you have somebody that a friend that
came along to document stuff with you, right, Yeah, So
that the first trip was really about proof of concept,
where I'd sort of pitched the idea around, but it

(37:39):
didn't really gain any traction because no one really could
see what it was that I was doing. And I
felt that I just had to get out there and
get some content so I could start to put it
together and hopefully generate a little bit more traction. So
that was how the first trip went. The second trip,
I am going to be hiring more sort of local
production editorial cruise because I haven't been able to put

(38:01):
the content in a format that I would like to
then be able to sort of say it at Netflix, Okay,
this is this is what it is like. Right now,
I've got the bite size stuff that I have been
sharing on my social channels there on Instagram and YouTube.
That's not really a show in itself, but I'm hoping
that someone will at least be able to see, Okay,
I can see where you're going now. Yeah, and now
for the second trip, I'm hoping to have a bit

(38:22):
more you know, longer form version of what I'm trying
to do, a bit more storytelling, a bit more scenic
shooting that I can actually then sort of really put
together as a as a basically as a pilot for
what the documentary series I'm hoping to eventually turn this into. Yeah,
and it's the Global Basketball Tour. You see your shirt.
We're doing this on Zoom but International Pickup Tour with Lealis.

(38:46):
I'm sure those shirts are available through your social media,
Yes they are, and through Breaking Tea, and yes I've
tweeted them out. Cool little things. Yet a little cartoon
you spinning a basket ball international pickup tour. It says,
in all the little uh some mountains and cities behind you,
I even see the Brazil Jesus statue there. Yeah, so

(39:09):
um it really when you you're so twenty cities, twenty countries,
twenty games is kind of the hook. Right. Um, I
know when you're in the Washington Post story they did
about you, I think I think it was Skeets who
said something about you could be the Anthony Bourdaine of
you know, pickup basketball. I almost when I was watching

(39:30):
some of your stuff, I think of it as almost
a combination of that. And have you seen the CNN
with Stanley Tucci with Italy where he kind of eats
his way through Italy. Yeah. I almost had that kind
of a feel too, that it could be something like that. Yeah. No,
I mean there's so many references like that. I mean,

(39:50):
the Anthony Bourdain one is obviously exceptionally flattering because of
the bar that he set for traveling around the world. Now,
I mean, you know, if if I was to get
with that's right. Yeah, Now, if I was to get
to a tenth of his success, I would be thrilled
by that. But but it is similar. You know, I'm
hoping that I need the elevator pitch, that's right. Yeah,

(40:11):
I mean basketball is certainly the hook that that is
the reason I'm going there, But it's more than that
as well. It's it's not just play basketball and leave.
It's then trying to discover about basketball history and just
the people. For example, in Croatia. You know Drajan Petrovitch,
former net of course, I mean, his impact nearly thirty
years after his death is still enormous. He's so much

(40:34):
more than just a basketball player in Croatia. He's he's
an icon, He's a legend. And I was fortunate I
met his mother at the Dragon Museum there in Zagreb.
But I mean that was incredible. Wasn't playing a chance, right, Yeah?
Just by chance? She was just there and where she
was because I was in the museum. I'm not sure
if you've been there, but you sort of you walk
up and there's all the accolades and jerseys and trophies

(40:55):
and things like that, and there was a door there.
It was open, and I didn't know what was but
I just sort of poked my head in and she
was there, and I was like, oh, and you know,
I was sorry. You know, I thought I was in
the wrong place and I was intruding, and she she
stopped what she was doing and got up and started
touring me around the museum and showing me some things.
And it was incredible, like one of those experiences that

(41:16):
I wish I was rolling on that I wish I
had that to be able to share with people the
experience because she was so humble and warm and welcoming.
And the coolest part was we were walking past a
shot of the Olympic final there Croatia in the United States,
and she was like David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Magic, Michael

(41:37):
Clad you know, she knew all the players, um and
and the reasoning that because she was really speaking Italian
to me, which I don't speak. I speak a little
Spanish through my wife, but it was more how she
was again able to communicate and you could just see
the pride from the mother still of her son. Obviously,
I mean, she's never not going to be proud of him,
but you know, thirty years in some ways for her,

(41:59):
I'm sure or feels like it was yesterday. But at
the same time as well, it's been such a long time.
But she was so just so hospitable, and I was like,
oh my god, this is such an emotional moment that
I really wish I would was able to share with
people more. But at the same time, sometimes things aren't
for the camera as well. Sometimes things are better to
just have that experience that you can that you can

(42:19):
take with you. But it's but it's a great story
and be able to tell that story and revolve it around.
You know, if anybody the Tris and Petrovich Bloody debat
Diva's documentary, that was done right once Brothers or something
it was. I think that was an NBA TV thing, um,
And that was sensational if you ever want to know
about that story. And I had the pleasure of my

(42:41):
first year with the Nets. I was a kid out
of college and drays and was on that team. And
I've actually interviewed draws In. Yeah. I think I'm the
only person the Organs still around the organization that's actually
interviewed draws In. Um. But I remember exactly to like
being in that tunnel at the Old Metal Lands during
shoot arounds and getting to talk to him. He was
such a kind man, always a smile on his face.

(43:04):
But to see his impact on European players today that
have been coming out for generations now, Um, to see
where the origin of that was, there's a fantastic story
and had he had to feel that NBA history when
you were speaking to his momm Yeah, absolutely, And that
was also one of the big reasons why I chose

(43:25):
that part of the world to go to first, because
if you look at the current m v P, it's
obviously Nikola Yokich the last two years, Luca don Chech
might win it this year. Certainly you feel like he's
going to win one at some point, and so I
did want to explore the connection between you in the
Balkan regions of Slovenia and Serbia, because draws and was
pretty much that first real star anyway from Europe, especially

(43:48):
when he got to New Jersey. There he actually, you know,
should have been an All Star. I think he was
All NBA third team in his final season there were
behind Drexler in Portland's he really got the chance. And
then when he came to New Jersey he just blossomed
the greatest prime when he when he was killed too,
and it was you know, so so for me it
was like this part of the world has produced some
incredible talent over the years. Again Vladi and Pages Stoyakovich,

(44:11):
you know, guys like that who have been there, and
you could feel it like people there busball is huge
and in fact, the Croatians, considering they made the final
in a lot of people there were kind of like
we we've really fallen off. We haven't actually sort of
used that as a as a platform to be, you know,
one of the better teams in the world. They have
fallen away a little bit. And I also spent some
time with Damien Rudez, who spent a few years in

(44:33):
the NBA, another Croatian guy there, so just to see
how important basketball is and what's certainly what draws and
meant to the people of Croatia. It was just an awesome,
awesome experience. And on on top of that, Croatia is
one of the most beautiful. It is so beautiful in Croatia.
It is impossible to describe, but it is spectacular. That
one court that you have that's with it's like on

(44:55):
top of a fortress. Yes, where was that? People need
to go on YouTube and you that video. It's it's stunning.
That's into Brovnik. And that was pretty much one of
the first places that I said when I decided to
hatch this plan, I said, right, that's where I'm going.
And so the court itself, I mean, it's not a
great court to play on. It's more tourist attraction finals, no,

(45:18):
but my god, what a scene it was there, and
you know, the sun just setting as I was there playing,
and you know, it just lit up the rooftops there
if Debrovnik, they're all orange. It's one of the most
beautiful coastal towns there as well. I got so lucky
because it poured with rain the day I left, and so,
you know, I mean, timing is everything. You know, you're
you're a day a day late, and that's what happens.

(45:39):
But it was so awesome to be there and to
shoot around on that and to play and oh yeah,
that that that that was just a beautiful, beautiful spot.
I would think that there's a I think there's a
Twitter account where they just put up pictures of basketball
courts in wondrous places, you know, and and I almost
get a sense that that'll be that'll be a part
of the peal of what you're doing is to is

(46:02):
the setting, you know, as much as the story, right absolutely,
And that's the whole thing is with this trip is
I don't want to play indoor basketball anywhere, because you
can find beautiful indoor courts anywhere, but there's a certain
element that the outdoor court has. Basically just on what
we said there with Brevni, where the sun can completely
change everything. Like if you're at an indoor gym with

(46:23):
lights on, it doesn't matter what time the day it is,
and maybe you don't really even know what's so special
about that gym. But if you go to a court
that has just got the surroundings and the backdrop and
and things like that, that to me creates a whole
different ambience. And I had a similar experience in Belgrade
and Survey. They're playing in the Calamitant Park there in
the Belgrade fortress that was built to b C. And

(46:45):
it was like, oh, man, that this feels. This feels
to me like just the most incredible experience because you're
really playing in a medieval castle on these courts that
are really really really nice courts, but again the sun setting,
people coming out to play, and it's just it's just
such a great feeling. When did they put a basketball
court there? Well? In so in Belgrade they do this

(47:09):
three on three stuff pretty much every summer now, I
believe it's been about fifteen seasons they've done it, and
they've had former NBA players come out there and kind
of promoted because of course, the big rivalry there is
between the two Belgrade teams, Partisan and Red Star, and
so they have both courts. They have it. They have
Partisan courts and Red Star courts. And and I actually

(47:30):
was invited to go back to Belgrade last year to
to watch one of the derby games between the two
Belgrade teams. It was insane. It was the most amazing
atmosphere for a basketball game. So there's that huge rivalry um.
And then yeah, so in the summer they tried to
get a lot of people to come out and play.
And three on three basketball is huge in the Balkans.
Not a lot of pick up five on five full court.

(47:52):
It's all half court, three on three, And I think
it is actually probably better to play pick up like
that because I'm sure you know when you've played yourself,
if you're ain't five on five f court, sometimes that
ball doesn't find its way moving around all that much,
whereas if you if you are playing three on three,
you're basically getting a touch almost every possession. So uh,
it's it's really really good. And also the court that

(48:15):
the stanchions there, and the rims and the nets they're
all really high quality too, so it's pretty it's a
pretty good environment to play on. There's a lot of
places in Europe in the places you're describing, there aren't
big open spaces or at least rectangular spaces, so they

(48:36):
kind of fit these things in to fit the terrain, right,
even though I saw pictures of that of that fortress
and like one half court is straight and then the
other one is angled, you know, making like a like
a left turn against a wall. So they've got to
just figure out spots. And you you would walk through
and I saw one place you just like saw a
hoop and you just started shooting on it. Yeah, that

(48:59):
was in shipping it in Croatia where there was basically
a pharmacy there and we were walking down just to
sort of get down to the water, and there was
just this old wooden backboard with a hoop there and
a little courtyard and I'm like, I mean, all right,
I'm just shooting around here. I'm just going to check
this one out. And and it was you know, again,
it's just that discovery of finding a court playing there

(49:20):
and having a bit of fun. It was somebody shows
up and you start talking and then there's a great
conversation getting about the area, right, absolutely, and the funny
thing was when I was doing my little court report
from there, some people came in and out of the
pharmacy and it must have looked weird that some guys
holding your phone and I'm just talking about a court
and there's a snail on the ground and things like that.
That Shibernik, of course, is where drawers and also played,

(49:43):
and there's a big there's a court. They're dedicated to him.
His first house is there, and there's also another statue
there of him. So, uh, Shivnik, My god, what a
beautiful place that is? Do I mean, that was the thing.
I'm trying to tell my wife that I'm here for
work and playing basketball, and then I'm just like, oh
my god, you've got see this place as well. Food
is incredible and the scenery is amazing, and everything about

(50:04):
it was just so captivating. I would imagine you're you're
just yeah, I could see it. I could see the show.
I mean, it's it's coming together right now in the
beauty of location, the history, and then uh, finding just
the average person and what they can tell you about
the area in that bond between people playing basketball, Um,
what's next? Like, where where have you? Uh, you've wrapped up.

(50:26):
So you went through the Baltics and in Germany you said, what,
what's the area now that you want to pursue. So
I'm heading to Africa at the end of February and March.
I'm going to be in Cape Town in South Africa,
then up to Lusaka in Zambia, and then onto Nairobi
in Kenya for about another sort of nearly three week trip. Now,

(50:48):
the reason I've chosen those destinations is for a couple
of reasons. Mainly, when I made the announcement that I
was leaving the start of the No Dunk's Crew there,
I got so many offers from people all around. Were
three people from Pakistan said come out to Pakistana plan.
I was like, wow, I didn't even know basketball existed
out there. But anyway, it sort of worked well that

(51:09):
the timing as far as Europe right now, it's obviously
the middle of winter, so it's not the best time
to try to play outdoor basketball there. In Asia, that's
the World Cup later in the year, which I'm hoping
that the Basketball World Cup, which I'm hoping to potentially attend,
and then South America as well at some point. So
Africa to me was like, Okay, the timing works well
for this right now. So I have that on the

(51:32):
on the calendar and I'll be announcing that on my
social soon. I'm just trying to wrap up a couple
more details here, but that is going to happen and
while I'm out there as well. This is the other
really important part of it for me, is it's not
just me playing Bastle now. I'm trying to host some
clinics with some kids and some local people where I
can be like, Okay, I'm here to play basketball, but

(51:52):
I'm also here to hope that basketball can help, you know,
bring bring some more people out and hopefully they can
love the game the way that I have throughout my life,
and maybe they can give them some hope as well
that basketball can take you around the world. And that's
that's what I'm hoping to do. So there's quite a
lot of logistics that I have to organize here, but
I feel I'm in a pretty good position. So I've

(52:14):
been very, very excited to have a lot of help.
I've been contacting various NBA teams and saying if you've
got anything you want to contribute to donate, please give
it to me and I'll take it down and I'll
pass that onto the locals. And I've been very, very
happy with the response I've had so far. Well, sure,
an NBA Africa started up last year and those games
and how many NBA players and cultures were involved in that.

(52:35):
And then I just saw recently the Paris Game where
UM Commissioner Adam Silver and the President of France they
talked about UM what they can do for Africa and
developing basketball there and developing nations there. It makes me
think of something that you just I want to go
back if we can go back to earlier we were

(52:58):
talking about the NETS player saying we were talking about
Australia UM, but we didn't talk about Patty Mills. And
you think about you're going back to Africa and helping
UM the people there in the ground swell of helping
young children. What about Patty mills story of being in
you know, Aboriginal Australian UM for people in the United States,

(53:20):
could you describe where Patty Mills is from? What that is, uh,
you know, as far as being Australian, what that can
compare to or mean? And how amazing it is that
Patty has been able to come out and do what
he has done. Yeah. So he was born on mainland

(53:42):
Australia and his uh I think his mother is a
Torres Strait Islander. So it's um exactly how to describe
that is is kind of difficult, but yeah, he's a
native Australian so and in in Indigenous Australian. And he
grew up I think he was playing Australian rules football
first and he was obviously an incredibly talented player, but

(54:03):
he had to overcome many obstacles to become a fantastic player.
That he went to St Mary's where he played his
college basketball, and he started playing for Australian. It was
really really quick, that was the thing about him. Was
super fast there. And he had a couple of years
with the Blazers before going to the Spurs and now
they're with the Nets. But the biggest I think moment
in Patty's professional career is probably in Tokyo when Australia

(54:28):
finally won a basketball medal. They're coming third at the
Olympics and Patty had forty two points in that game.
And he's just the thing about Patty. I have spoken
him a couple of times throughout my journey in the NBA,
and he really is just a regular guy. I'm sure
you know that yourself. You've you've spoken to him like
very humble. He gives so much back to Australia. He's

(54:51):
always trying to help out in the community as well
without recognition. He doesn't like to sort of publicize things
that he's doing. And he really is a hero of
my mine as well, because he's worked so hard to
get to the point where he's such a proven pro
now in his career where you know, look, it's it's
coming to the end of his career for sure, but
he's been so good and he's worked so hard, and

(55:12):
it's just so great to see him regarded in the
way that he is. I think he's highly respected, he's
highly loved everywhere he's gone, like he's never left a
situation leaving a bad taste in anybody's mouth. And you know,
in the basketball world of Australia, there's there's guys like
Andrew Gays of course, and Lauren Jackson who was an

(55:33):
incredible player for the Seattle Storm, and I think Patty's
in that same bracket, even if he hasn't had necessarily
the same success as Lauren had he won a championship
with the Spurs. But but Patty is just regarded as
one of the most stand up Australians as you could
possibly ever meet. And uh, I think, you know, seeing
him with the Australian flag they're winning the bronze medal

(55:55):
in Tokyo was such a it was a lifetime achievement
award and it couldn't have happened one Nice to god
him and Joe Ingles of course a couple of other
uh you know Australians there so, but also Patty though.
I mean there's we we've known what the in the
United States, the civil rights movement. Um, it was even
maybe even more of a long shot when it came

(56:15):
to Patty because um, you know, he's faced a lot
of discrimination in his life and the Aboriginal people there
in Australia. And I think his uncle was a civil
rights activist who I think there's a holiday named after
his uncle, Martin Luther King Day kind of thing there.
But um, I'm trying to find I remember seeing it.

(56:37):
It just came to me I was looking it up.
But um, to then see him be the leader of
the country and lead them to a to a metal um.
It's groundbreaking, let alone, you know, from a from a
just a civil rights standpoint, more than just even a
you know, national standpoint. Yeah, yeah, you're right, and and uh,
you know, in terms of facing that discrimination, I mean

(56:59):
that's that's that asolutely something that Patty had to overcome
from very very early on. I mean, Australia still has,
you know, many problems in that regard, you know, dealing
with its history. I mean the United States there's something
similar there. And so for Patty to be able to
have thrived the way he has and remained humble and

(57:19):
grateful as well, is I think, just again a tribute
to the person he is. I mean, you hear it
all the time that you know, people are he's a
better person than he is a basketball player. And I
think that's a thing you know that we'll we'll always
feel about Patty, is that, you know, there's been controversies
at times with some of our other Australian born players,
but Patty has always been somebody who's who's always put

(57:43):
his team first, his country first, and his teammates first.
And again every I don't know anybody who has a
bad word to say about him, because he's always maintained
just such an incredible integrity about everything that he does.
Where does basketball? What does the NBA rank in Australia
like the How would you describe the popularity there? It's

(58:04):
it's as big as anything now. And I mean people again,
I think seeing guys like Patty and Joe Ingalls and
and of course Bannon Andrew Bogett who have become not
just role players on teams. I mean Andrew Gays. I
know Andrew and I liked him joke around, but he
was more of a role player when he came into
the league, even though we all knew he was a

(58:25):
great shooter, he didn't really get a chance to establish himself. Shane,
He'll played as well for a season there in the
Minnesota Timberwolves. But now there are players who are legit,
you know, stars on teams that are really contributing. And
I think that's the thing. And also it's the access
because here I'm going to sound a bit like an
old man here, old man yells at cloud. But when

(58:46):
I grew up, we did you know you couldn't watch games.
Now in Australia, people are streaming their league pass while
they're at work watching them because it's it's you know,
seven o'clock Eastern time. Here it's eleven o'clock in the morning,
so it's perfect for people to be watching. You know,
you can watch the East Coast games and then the
West Coast games as well, and then you finished work.
So it's great. But but so many people. I mean,

(59:07):
obviously what Michael Jordan and the Bulls did in the nineties,
you know, basketball just exploded around the world, and that's
carried on where you know, people absolutely make it an
effort to travel to the United States and try to
I've known people who have been like, we're there for
twenty four days and we're seeing nine games of basketball
in various cities. So it's it's hugely popular. And as

(59:29):
far as when you go to these other countries that
are soccer centric, um I even noticed they think one
of the courts, it might have been the one of
the fortress when you you had a a visual from
above and there was actually a little soccer net that
was in the middle of the court. Yeah, I'm sure
they must, you know, take our depending up. Someone's gonna
play soccer on it or use the same space. Um,

(59:52):
is basketball sort of like a Is it mainstream or
is it like a niche kin? No, No, it is mainstream.
I mean, I think it's never going to overtake soccer
as the world's game, but I think it's probably the
second biggest in the world. And for me because you
only need a ball, you know, when you can and
you're a ball and a hoop, and again, boys and

(01:00:14):
girls can play and you don't need much else. You
certainly don't need pads or an equipment or anything like
that that you may need for you know, baseball or football.
You can just if if someone's got a ball, even
if you've got a soccer ball, if there's a hoop,
you can use that to play. So, um, I think
it's uh, I think it's you know, in those countries,
especially as well now because the access to watching the

(01:00:36):
NBA is so easy for everybody and you're seeing you know,
I mean, it's it's plausible that we might have you know,
the last four years have been non Americans win the
m v P as far as Yannis and Yokichen. You've
had Defensive Player of the Year and various other awards
won by players not born in the United States. So
people don't look at it any necessarily is like, well,

(01:00:57):
it's it's it's still an American dominated sport, even though
obviously team you say is always the favorite in tournaments.
But if you're a good player, you can really go
and make it there in the NBA. And there's there's
enough stories now, enough proof that. The funny thing for
me still is when you look at your kitchen a
don chech, those guys aren't ripped like like we sort

(01:01:17):
of might traditionally think of a of a super athlete
their basketball players first, So you don't even need to
necessarily be, you know, the best athlete to play basketball
and be effective. You can be very very good if
you just know how to play. And seeing having been
now to the Balkans and seeing the way that your
kitchen don chech play, the way they passed, the way
they move, it makes a lot more sense now because

(01:01:37):
that's how people play over there where It's like, oh,
these guys don't maybe necessarily look super athletic, but they
really know how to play, they know the right position
to be in, and they've got a soft touch as well.
So it's, uh, it's funny because a lot of times
I'm sharing a lot of the soccer centric countries, it's
the best athletes least soccer and don't play bask in

(01:01:58):
the United States, it's like, well, the best athlete to
play basketball and football and don't necessarily play soccer. And
that's why soccer hasn't risen to that level. And it
would be awesome if if all the countries are so many,
you know, more countries around the world, would you know,
and it's it's getting there. I mean it used to
be you know, back in when the Dream Team came
on the scene and it was short of like well

(01:02:19):
they the other countries thought they had been catching up
and then we said the best American players and they said,
all right, well you see how far you have to go.
But now, I mean you mentioned Australia played very well,
Spain has always been good, so all the countries have
been terrific and um, you're they're starting to catch up
a little bit. So it would be great if it
could become like the Soccer World Cup where there's just

(01:02:41):
so many different countries that could possibly win. Maybe that's
coming down the road. Yeah. I mean if you look
at Brazil, like they always sort of had the favorite
almost no matter what. But they haven't won it now
for twenty years, so and I think even in Tokyo,
I think was the first game the US lost to France,
and then that was almost like a good loss in
the sense that it was like, all right, we know,
we've got to play to our best. I think the

(01:03:02):
other thing is with the United States is like if
you see it don Chich or yokich last year when
they played in the Euros, you know they were devastated
when they didn't win that. And that's still I think
a little bit of a gap with the United States
is that. Look, because they play a lot of games
and the season goes along with playoffs, but some players
are sort of more like, you know what, I want

(01:03:22):
to take my summer off. But if you get the
best players from the NBA committing to the USA every tournament,
that's what the other countries want. They don't they don't
want any excuses if you were to beat the USA.
You don't want people saying, well, that wasn't their best team.
Everyone else wants the US to send their best team,
so that it's then like it's it's a completely fair
fight because I know, for example, you know, Team US,

(01:03:44):
say was in Australia four years ago for two exhibition
games in Australia. Won that second game and it was
a huge moment for celebration. But you know, people would say, well, yeah,
but there was no Lebron and no Steph Curry, and
true they weren't there. But it's still the United States
will always have that any victory against them on in
any form of basketball is a win. So you know, um,

(01:04:08):
I think that's that's one thing that United States certainly
will have for you know, certainly in the near future. Anyway,
I don't see that changing. Well, and there could be
a there could be a kid working out on an
outdoor court right now in uh In, uh In, one
of those Baltic countries that that you know, because in basketball,

(01:04:29):
one player can can totally make a difference. I mean,
that's why the free agents in the NBA people go
crazy to try and get that big star because one
guy is only five guys on the court at one time.
So one guy makes such an incredible difference and you
can get you know, take a country, I don't know,
you know, look at look at Portugal in soccer because
of Bernaldo. I mean, just take one guy working out

(01:04:51):
on one of those courts that Lee Ellis is gonna
play on right now. Maybe you maybe he's gonna walk
up to you as a twelve year old and it's
gonna challenge you want to get in your game, and
it could be the next Luca dan Chech. And certainly
that country is battling for a gold medal or a
World Cup. Yeah. Well, and and the other thing is
I think you are you know, France is a good
example because there's guys like Evan Fournier, who we know

(01:05:12):
is a decent role player in the NBA, but when
he puts that French uniform on, all of a sudden,
he becomes Michael Jordan of France, you know. And and
we've seen that. There's been so many guys like that,
you know, Bogdan Bogdanovitch, you know, he's the guys who
have got that sort of fever bogg doane about them,
or a fever nickname, where it's like, when these guys
are playing for their country, all of a sudden, it's

(01:05:34):
something completely different that you don't necessarily see in the NBA.
So um. And also, I think one of the advantages
a lot of the European teams have especially, is a
lot of those guys who you see in the World
Cups and in the Olympics, they've been playing together at
national levels for maybe since they were teenagers or even earlier.

(01:05:54):
So there's not I think that's the other thing that
America still at times it's like, okay, let's just get
the best twelve guys available. But these guys might not
have played with each other necessarily in years going by.
But this guy, I mean Louis Skoler, remember for Argentina
in Tokyo. I think he was still their leading scorer
at forty years. Yeah, we had him my nets for

(01:06:15):
a little while, either a skilled player. My favorite story
international story of finding a player though, you talking about
the Baltics, I think it was the story of use
of Nurkics right, and then didn't have like an agent
just see his father was like a ran into this
like seven foot police officer and said, by the way,
do you have a kid? The Bosnian beast? Yeah, yeah,

(01:06:38):
I think I remember something like that. Yeah, where it
was just kind of like if you if someone your
size and your sort of athleticism has had a kid,
he must be a decent athlete, and I think that
should happen. I think the kid was like twelve and
then they went and found him and started and playing basketball. Yeah,
he said, well when you look at his dad, he's
going to have a shot. I was like, and I
think with his uh, they were talking about his AU

(01:06:58):
coach in Minnesota and he brought him his program and
he was a little kid and they said, I don't know,
let me look an the ELPs and they though, they go,
all his dad's over there. And he looked over his
dad was a seven footer standing about the door, and said,
oh wait a minute. Now, I'm gonna take a whole
different approach here of this two year old. Well, I
think Marson Gortat had even something similar. He was just
a big you know, he was what six nine, six ten,
and it was like athletic. His dad was a boxer,

(01:07:20):
and it's like you just get out of the basketball
court and see what that try. Yeah, my dacent career
out of it. So it's uh that dad was his
dad was a boxer. I had that note, you know,
I had found my notes on Patty Mills, and he
was just just to go back to that. He was
just a third um, black aus you to represent his

(01:07:40):
country in basketball, and his the second was his uncle,
which was Danny Moore so which was thirty years prior
to that, and his great uncle Eddie MAYBEO. I don't
know if I'm saying that. Yeah, mambo. Um he was
a legendary activist. Uh and and uh. In fact, there

(01:08:01):
was a story where Gregg Popovitch before the two thousand
and fourteen finals, told the story of Eddie Marbo to
the team at a team event right before a game. Um.
There was a great moment there between Patty and I
think I think Aaron Bean's might actually been on that team.
You're right, he knew, he knew the impact of that. Yes,
I just want to make sure I got that that

(01:08:23):
that in there. Um Leel has any any plans to
go take your tour to Australia. Oh absolutely, yeah, that one.
I obviously had tremendous support and and you know, encouragement
to come out to my homeland there. So I will
be going. I haven't sort of planned it yet. It's
one of those ones where I would love to obviously

(01:08:43):
take the family on that trip, specifically so that the
boys could see their granddad and their cousins and things
like that, so that one will um yeah, I'm not
sure exactly when that will be. I mean again, I'm
doing all of this myself, so it's it's I haven't
sort of planned and mapped out every destination, and yet
it's more like I'm going to focus on the next one.
See how successful that is. Hopefully I can, as I said,

(01:09:05):
turn that into something and potentially then get somebody on
board to help me produce it and shoot it as
I the further I go down here, because I'm never
going to run out of destinations as far as where
I can go and play, but I might run out
of money if it's not getting much traction. Hopefully, and
hopefully it means that I apploy here to help get
that going here. Maybe you know, I could even see

(01:09:27):
it spreading to remote areas in the United States. Oh yeah,
that don't necessarily think of as hartbeds a basketball. Yeah.
And and that's the thing. I've had a lot of
people say, you come out to you know, this part
of this part of the United States, and I'm like, yeah,
I mean it's not I'm certainly not excluding the USA
from from this by any means it's um. You know,
as I say, if if I am able to generate

(01:09:49):
the right audience and the right traction, I'll just keep
on playing until the body says no more, you know.
So you know that might be a year from now,
it might be ten years, who knows. So we'll just
have to try to take care of myself. Umly, before
I let you go, I I do subject all of
my subjects to to this one thing. Remember the great

(01:10:10):
Jim Balvano and his sp speech never give up, which
has always been important to me in my life. Uh.
He said, it's to have a full life, you need
to do three things, and you're living a full Lifely,
I think there's no doubt about that. Um he said,
everyone needs every day laugh, cry, think right, um, the
laugh part of it. So it could be, uh, something

(01:10:32):
that made you laugh today, yesterday, it's some other part
of the world. But give me something or some things
that make Leellis laugh. Well, it was two days ago
my six year old had to do a project for school,
and it was a hundred days of school and so
they had to do a hundred anythings, and he came
up with sea creatures. So he started drawing a shark
and a whale and an octopus. And he realized all

(01:10:54):
of a sudden, on this big sheet of paper, he
was like, oh my god, I've got to come up
with a hundred different sea creatures. And I said to him, like,
I said, why don't you You know, look what you
can do is you can sort of do like little fish,
tiddley fish. You know, you can do say thirty of those,
and you can do starfish. They're easy. You can do
you know, thirty of those as well. And he was like, oh, great, great.

(01:11:14):
So he started doing it and he colored it in,
he did seaweed and did everything, and he wrote his
name and he did a really really nice job. And
I said to him, I said, Oscar, I just wanted
to let you know that was really well done. You
worked hard, you used your imagination, you were creative. You
should be proud of yourself. I'm really proud of the
way that you worked hard because you faced an obstacle.
You asked for help. We always talk about, you know,
when you need help, ask for it. And then you

(01:11:35):
went out there and you did it, and so that's
all your work and you took the right approach. I'm
just so proud of you, and you know, it's a
really happy moment for me. He said, can you give
me like two dollars or something? So so words don't

(01:11:56):
mean much. He wants he wants the cash. You know,
remember the Caddy shack with the Dali Lama story. You'll
have it and then you'll have eternal have a little
something pretty effort and the effort. What about what moves
you to tears? It could be happy, sad. What what
stirs your emotions? Yeah, that's that's a great question. Again,

(01:12:22):
most of my stories revolve around my my kids, and
I asked these questions. Most people talk about something their
kid has done or yeah, the kids, I think, you know,
I think for again, my my ten year old. He
loves reading. I love reading with him. And he completed
the Harry Potter series sort of not too long ago. Now. Look,
I don't know if you read it word for word.

(01:12:42):
Their long books, there's a lot of them. But he
was so proud of himself that he accomplished that. Uh,
and I you know, I said the same thing, I'm
just proud of you. And then I sort of said
to my wife, I'm like, God, I'm getting like emotional
knowing that he's read these Harry Potter books already, like
I haven't read them, but he got through them. But
I felt just in a as a fatherly moment, I thought, wow,

(01:13:07):
I hope that's that's you know, because as a parent,
you're always questioning whether or not you're raising your kid
to be you know, crazy or whatever. But he did that,
he got through those books, and I was like, oh
my god, I feel I felt proud of myself. I
was okay, good, that's a good parents moment. Just yeah,
you know, that's a great parenting moments. Well we'll bring
you your emotions to tears. Absolutely. Um. The think part

(01:13:30):
a lot of times outside Barkley Center there's the oculus
and you may have been there, and you see the
circular video board and you know if so many people
see it, whether they're coming into the arena, coming out
of the subway with various events. So if you could
put something up there, Um, besides, you know, watch Lee
Eli's in twenty Countries. Um, something you want people to

(01:13:53):
come away with thinking about. You know, I think I'm
learning every day on this new endeavor that I've that
I've been on right now, and I think the most
rewarding thought I've had so far is the fact that
when I go to Africa, I really am hoping that
I can contribute something to the people there, to the

(01:14:14):
to the kids, to the locals. And a lot of
NBA teams, including the Nets, have offered to donate some
merchandise and things like that, and I'm going to be
taking it. And I really want to see the smiles
on those kids faces where it's like, you know, here's
here's here's a T shirt, he's a maybe a basketball
something like that, that I really want this to be

(01:14:36):
more again than just this is not just about me
playing basketball, and like, all right, how how exciting is
it watching pick up oz is usually not that exciting,
But there's so much more to this story than that.
And I think I'm going to look at a lot
of those kids and sort of see myself as that
kid with that hope and wonderment as a ten or
eleven years old, where it's like, wow, maybe this is

(01:14:56):
a little a little bit of a bridge to getting
somewhere towards their dream, whether it's basketball or not, but
just that hope that maybe this can be something that
they can use as as as a platform to achieve
their own or certainly chase their own dreams. They will
be a big photo up there of a kid with
a big smile on his face with a net shirt

(01:15:16):
on absolutely and you play pick up challenging. Yeah, like
like that Cramer in Seinfeld where he goes to karate
with the kid. There was no thing either. You're going
to go back to that that you you know, as
far as like a slogan I thought to when you
were talking earlier about just don't you know, just go

(01:15:37):
out and do it. It's like perfect is the enemy
of good, you know, don't It doesn't always have to
be perfect. Just get it, go and get a body
in motion, stays in motion. Let's just get out there
in motion. You know that That's one thing. I also,
again referencing my kids, I say to them because it's
like we're not seeking perfection. We are the successes in
the effort if you give it your best, you know,

(01:15:59):
the fire No. Result is not the only metric to
determine whether or not something was good the Nets. The
Nets can lose the game doesn't mean they played badly.
You know, if you lose on a buzzer beat or
it's not like, well, we played badly. If you you
can play a great game, I mean you only have
to look at the Warriors fifteen sixteen season. An incredible season.
They didn't win the championship, I mean heartbreaking, but doesn't
mean that the season was a complete waste or a

(01:16:20):
complete loss. I mean they still achieve things. And that's
that's where I am right now. I'm not seeking perfection myself.
I'm just trying to do the best I can and
if I do that, I'll be satisfied and happy. And
it's not It's not only about you must reach your
end goal for it to be successful. There are other
ways you can still be happy with the accomplishments and achievements.

(01:16:43):
Lee Ellis, thank you so much. Thank you. Lee Ellis's
basketball journey continues. Part two of his twenty Cities, twenty Games,
twenty Countries tour starts off this weekend, coming up in Johannesburg,
South Africa, where he's going to be putting on a

(01:17:06):
on a skills clinic uh for youngsters there and an
open run there so uh, some really cool stuff coming up.
Follow Lee Ellis's journey on Instagram, Twitter at Lee Ellis,
and he's got a YouTube channel as well, and hopefully
it all works out. We love to see when guys

(01:17:27):
have a dream and they can make it work and
they could turn their career into something that they dream
about and that they love to do and they're passionate about. Um.
I was thinking back to this, uh, this show. I
saw this summer um concert at the Stone Pony Summer Stage,

(01:17:47):
and I went to see an artist that I that
I really love. Uh. Jason isbel and he was he
was telling a story being at the Stone Pony and Asbury.
He wanted to tell a story about Bruce Springstein. And
this reminded me of a guy, you know, being able
to fulfill your dreams and also a little bit of

(01:18:08):
traveling involved here like le Ellis. But um, he tells
this story about you know, his friend Danny Clinch, who
was big at Ashbury Park. He's the photographer rock photographer,
has done so many iconic photographs you've seen. And he
said that, you know, it's including a lot of Springsteen stuff.
And you know, he was at a show one time

(01:18:30):
where he was it was a festival or something, and
Bruce Springsteen was there and and Danny Clinch said to
Jason his bell, Hey do you want to meet Bruce?
And Jason is well, of course, I want to meet
the boss, you know. And he waited for a while
outside of the room where he was and then finally
got to meet him. I didn't know if Bruce Springsteen
would have any idea of who he is, but you know,

(01:18:52):
Danny Clinch can introduce him, and he introduces him in
Bruce leans over to Jason Isbell in his ear and
he said, hey, you're the guy. How you saying that
I'm tired of traveling alone? That's not good for Springsteen impersonation,
but he he's sang a little chorus of one of

(01:19:13):
Jason is Bell's songs to Jason in his ear. Traveling
Alone was the song and you can you Can? And
Jason his belt tells this story and he's still glowing
about that moment. And to think about your passion, your dreams,
what you do the grind, and then one of your

(01:19:34):
heroes acknowledges that they enjoy your work. That's a great
moment for any artist. And then Jason Isbell proceeded to
play the song traveling Alone, which is a great song.
That's my recommenation, recommendation today. Uh. In addition to going
out and checking out all the content from le Ellis

(01:19:54):
and some of the great locales, he's been playing some
pickup basketball's great stuff. By thanks to Lee Ellis, my
thanks to our producer Tom Dowd, engineer Isaac Lee. So
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(01:20:17):
I hope you enjoyed listening. This is the Voice of
the Nets. I'm Chris Carino. Talk to you. Thanks