Meet Deja Foxx now, because she’s going all the way. One of the youngest people in modern history to have worked on a presidential campaign, she not only intends to run for the White House “but I intend to win.” As one of the one in three young Americans who are ‘hidden homeless’, she stood up to senator Jeff Flake over his attempt to ban women from access to Planned Parenthood. “Why would you deny me the American Dream?” she asked. She was just 16 years old. Her protest went viral, and a political and personal star was born. She hasn't wasted any time since, and at the age of just 21, has already helped her heroine Kamala Harris become the first female, first Black and first Asian American Vice President, has become an active campaigner for reproductive justice and founded a digital community, GenZGirlGang, that seeks to redefine the way women and femmes do business, create relationships and build society. Amanda de Cadenet talks to Deja about community, scarcity and success - and what Kamala Harris tattooed on her arm.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, I don't know what you were doing when you're
a teenager, and I'm not going to get into what
I was doing when I was a teenager. But my
guest today was very busy. She was busy organizing sex
said in her school, creating reproductive and sexual health access
across her community, and challenging a United States Senator to
(00:22):
fight for abortion rights. Yeah. Pretty impressive, right. The woman
that I'm talking about is Deja Fox, who also is
one of the youngest presidential campaign staffers in American political history.
You may know her from her work with gen Z
Girl Gang, an organization dedicated to organizing young women online,
or maybe for her work with Planned Parenthood. But one
(00:43):
way or another, Desia is creating a new path for
women who have come of age in the era of
social media. So when I was reading up on you,
I loved how many times I heard you describe yourself
as a future president of the United States. I love that.
Do you still feel that you are a potential future
president of the United States? Yeah? I I not only
(01:03):
intend to run, but I intend to win um And
I know that the more that I say it, the
more I believe it, the more I believe it, the
more other people do. UM. And not just people who
doubt people who look and live like me, but people
who share my experiences hear me say that, and it matters. Right.
Maybe not every little girl that's listening wants to be president,
(01:24):
but I know that declaring my ambition and declaring it
loudly make space for other people to do that too,
and so it's important. Absolutely it does. How else would
you describe what you do in the world. Yeah, I mean,
I'm a storyteller. My activism has always been rooted in
my own story and my personal experience, right from going
(01:46):
to school board meetings and sharing that to change the
sex education curriculum, to going toe to toe with my
senator when I was sixteen based on my own identities,
to going to a school like Columbia, right, Like, all
of this is looped back to my own personal story.
I like to think that I'm a role model and
a mentor for a lot of a lot of people, UM,
(02:07):
And that the way that I show up, particularly on
social media, UM, is an education. And what is possible
that you know you can be a student and being
a strategist, that you can be like struggling to remember
to eat breakfast in the morning and be succeeding. And
I try to stand in that public platform as holy
(02:29):
as I possibly can, as authentically as I can, because
I want to show other people that you can struggle
and succeed at the same time, and that you can
kind of be both, and that you don't have to
make these choices between like being serious and being sexy
and being the smart one or being you know, all
these sort of things. You mean, you're showing an authentic
representation of a woman's life because all of those things.
(02:53):
That's absolutely right, and that you know, I've always said
that to me, how I do what I do is
more certain than what I do that's important to what
you do is important. But yes, how we move through
life is also crucial. Yeah, And I mean, just from
my personal perspective that the work that I do for
(03:15):
me wouldn't be worth doing if I wasn't, you know,
shaking things up. If I wasn't going through the world
making others who hold power a little bit uncomfortable, right,
if I wasn't making just a little bit more space
for the people that come after me, that I really
wouldn't be able to do this work and I wouldn't
want to if I wasn't doing it in a way
(03:36):
that was different or exciting. I relate to you in
that regard. It's it's understanding that to create change, we
have to push boundaries and we have to push people.
And there is a level of being able to sit
with people's discomfort. You have to be able to be
okay with making people uncomfortable in order to do that, right, Um,
(04:00):
which brings me to you know again, when I was
looking at video footage of you, I saw that incredible
footage of you at sixteen years old standing up against
send it to flake Um, challenging him on reproductive rights,
and I was flawed by your confidence and I wanted
(04:23):
to know where that courage came from. Yeah. I think
back to that younger version of myself often, UM, and
I think if her and I were to go toe
to toe today, she would eat me up. She was
something else. She was fierce, and you know, so much
of that advocacy stemmed from the personal that it was
(04:46):
my access to birth control that was on the line, right,
This was my future, my body on the line. Um.
In so many ways it still is. And so it
wasn't some theoretical political game for me, right was about
could I go on to college? Could I Could I
control my body and my future? Um? And so for me,
(05:07):
that passion and that confidence stemmed from the personal um.
But I also think back to you know again, the
power of storytelling. That when I got up and I
told my story and the next day I went viral
on social media, that I got to be on even
footing with the U. S. Senator, and that that can't
(05:29):
be understated when people who have looked, who look and
have lived like me have been intentionally excluded from these
power power positions right from the places of decision making.
And so to be able to utilize my story as
an agent of change making, and then to see that
reaction on social media democratize my access to the space
(05:49):
into the public discourse, it was a huge confidence boost
in so many ways, and it was kind of the
thing I needed to continue being a storyteller. To give
some context for our listeners. You growing up struggled with
being hidden homeless, which I would love for you to
(06:10):
explain for people who don't know what that means. One
in thirty teens in the US experience hidden homelessness, and
it really just means not having a home of your own.
It could mean living with friends or you know, a
guidance counselor, or For me, it was living with my
partner and his family. And that was the language that
(06:31):
I didn't have until sophomore year of high school. Right.
I didn't really know how to describe my experiences, and
it was really helpful to be able to put that
language to it and know that I wasn't alone. There
were so many other young people out there struggling with that. Right.
When we think one in thirty, um, that's just about
one in every classroom. And that's not to say that
(06:52):
hidden homelessness is distributed equally, because it is not, but
it is a helpful visual. Right. How old were you
when you were living with your partner? Um? I moved
on to my mom's house when I was fifteen years old.
You know. There was issues of substance abuse that had
just gotten out of hand, and I knew it was
time for me, in making decisions about my own safety, um,
(07:14):
my own well being to live elsewhere. And so I
bounced around between friends houses, you know, and then eventually
landed at my boyfriend at the time and his family's
home and they welcomed me in like another child, and
that was a really really important part of my experience
in high school. It's interesting I moved out of my
home when I was fifteen as well for similar reasons
(07:38):
to you, and live with a boyfriend. And I wouldn't
have had anywhere to live had I have been able
to live with him. But it's also put like the
fire into me of being able to on my own living,
so that I wasn't reliant on staying in a crappy
relationship with a guide because I needed somewhere to live,
which was the case for for a while. That so
(08:00):
I definitely related to this term which I had never
heard before. And you know, I think that's the case
for so many young people out there right that they
have these rich social networks of friends and support staff
and significant others, and so homelessness for most youth doesn't
actually look like being on the streets. Right. They have
(08:21):
people they can rely on, but that doesn't negate the
experience of not having a home of your own and
the kind of impact that that has um on your
access to resources, or on your mental health or your
physical health or your well being. And you know when
I think about it. I think about it obviously in
relation to reproductive health right and the kind of resources
I had access to. And when I was sixteen, I
(08:43):
went to a planned parenthood and I had no money,
I had no parents, I had no insurance right, but
through Title ten funding, I was able to receive birth
control at no cost to me and walk away with
the peace of mind that my body was my own
and I was making decisions about it, that my circumstances
wouldn't decide my future. And that funding Title tent funding
(09:05):
through which I received birth control is exactly what Jeff
Flake earlier in that day and voted distrib away. So
when we think about where that confidence and that passion
comes from, once again, it was incredibly personal. Yeah. Do
you think most advocacy comes from personal experience? I think
good advocacy does. Um. People always ask me where they
should get started, and I tell them to think about
(09:28):
your own life. Yeah, exactly, you think get personal. That's
my best advice is to really think about how the
news or what you're seeing in politics is intersecting with
your own life, and then to use your personal story.
You think about how does my narrative or my experience,
how can you share it and then to bring your
personal network along, right, to bring your friends, your family,
(09:50):
your significant other, your neighbors into the room. Because the
people who care about you were going to care about
what you care about. Yeah, very much. So. So when
you arrived at Columbia, You've got a d M in
your Instagram from Mina Harris, who I also adore, and
she was asking you to join her aunt, Kamala Harris's
(10:11):
presidential campaign. What was your response to getting that d M?
How shocked to you? Well, this was my sophomore year
of college, so I had already done the fun freshman
year figured things out right in first generation college students,
so the learning curve was heavy. But in my sophomore year,
as I was unpacking my dorm, I actually got a
(10:33):
d M from Mina Harris. That was just a job description.
It was it was more like, here is an opening um.
And so my initial response was saying, I have some
friends who just graduated, and that interesting. Your first response
was not I'm applying. It was like, let me hook
you up as some friends. Yeah, exactly exactly, And I
(10:55):
think that that's really at the core of this story,
Like the meaning of it to me, as I back
on my life, was that absolutely I was going to
put my friends names up, right like I. One assumed
I wasn't qualified, assumed I was too young. And so
you know, I shoot back this d M saying I
have some friends that i'd like to recommend that I
think would be a good fit. And she comes back
(11:16):
to me saying, I think you're a good fit. I
think you should apply. And I just think that there's
such a special relationship between women who do that, right,
women who bring your name up, who see your potential
and push you to see it too. And in so
many ways, that's what I aspired to be, right, I
aspire to put my name or my friends names in
the room. And I know just how important it is
(11:37):
because it's exactly how I landed a job on a
presidential campaign at just nineteen years old and became one
of the youngest presidential campaign staffers in modern history. That's
no small thing. Let's just say that again. One of
the youngest presidential campaign staff in modern history. Yeah, that's
(11:58):
pretty major. It was, and you know, it was earth
shaking for me. And I have to admit that there
were moments where I thought about not taking the job,
and I got some very solid advice from why did
you consider not taking the job? Yeah? So this this
is exactly sort of one of the most interesting parts
(12:19):
of this story. Like I said, I was unpacking that
sophomore year dorm. I had committed to this school and
this college experience, and like I said, I was first
of my family to put to college. So first and foremost,
I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to drop out,
Like this is gonna be a mess. Um. You know,
I have a lot of my own pride tangled up
(12:39):
in this, but I also have family expectations. And let's
not forget that at the time, they were like twenty
people running through Democratic nominee right, Like this was not
a sure thing by any means. I remember. Some of
the barriers for me were that one, I had never
been to Baltimore, the city they were asking me to
move to, and by the time I moved there, I
had still never been. My day in Baltimore was the
(13:00):
day I moved into my apartment. I had never signed
a lease on an apartment. I signed my first lease
when I got there. And the position I was working
in as influencer and surrogate strategists didn't exist before I
got there either. So I was stepping into a new
city in a new job, and I felt very uncertain
of myself understanding. Honestly, Yeah, I spent most of my
(13:23):
first day in the bathroom crying. Um, I like these
photos of me in the bathroom here, like, oh no,
I mean terrifying. It was terrifying. But what courage that
you actually were, like, I am, I am feeling this terror,
but I'm I know that this is the right thing
for me to do. Yeah, And I actually, me and
my coworkers, this is a kind of a funny, um
(13:46):
behind the scenes story, but we all got tattoos of
the word fearless, which was a campaign slogan, and mine
is actually right here, and Kamala Harris wrote it for me.
It's in her handwriting, because for me, that moment was fearless.
It was a moment where I set the logistics aside
(14:06):
and I zoomed out and I took control of my
own story and I said, I don't care what other
people are going to think about this choice. I'm making
it wholeheartedly and I know it is the right thing
to do. I know that my skills can make a difference,
and I know that I support this woman who not
only shares so many identities with me, right as an
(14:28):
Asian American, as a first generation American, its own raised
by a single mom. Right, I saw myself represented in
a way that I never had before. But I also
knew that this was potentially the most important election of
my lifetime, and that there was no sense in sitting
it out. What inside you indicated to you that this
was the right choice, because intellectually you've just given me
(14:51):
a bunch of great reasons. But I'm wondering how you
knew I'm doing this. Like I said, I got a
piece of advice from from Mina Harris, which was to
zoom out that I was getting so caught up in
the little things like who was going to be upset
about it? Who wasn't gonna like my choices? How was
(15:13):
I going to pay for a rental car to move
my stuff? Could I really afford an apartment? Right? I
was getting so caught up in the logistics and how
this was gonna work that I failed to zoom out
and think about what this could mean for me and
my story. But this was literally the opportunity of a lifetime. Uh,
and that I am someone who has always made it
work and that I would make it work this time.
(15:35):
And I have to say that there was sort of
a tipping point for me. Also. I was still attending classes, right,
It was like the first week of classes when I
made this decision, and I was sitting in my in
my Contemporary Civilizations class, which is a required Columbia literature,
We're reading Plato, and I'm just thinking, oh my god,
(15:57):
what am I doing here? Like the most import in
presidential my in presidential election of my lifetime is happening
right now, and literally everyday matters, and I have the
skills that could make a difference. And so it really
was just a timeliness, right that I knew that this
was the time and that there would be no other
(16:19):
time like it. You said that you had always made
it work. And one of the things I want to
reflect is that I know for myself some of the
survival skills that I learned from my really um unsettled childhood.
Actually we're really beneficial as I go. Also because I
(16:43):
too can like work anything out. It's like, no, no,
I've I have lived through some really difficult stuff. I
will work this thing out, and I will make it work.
Same thing, right. So I'm wondering whether you found that
some of your survival skills that you developed at growing
up have helped you with your ambitions and helped you
to be fearless and helped you to have courage to
(17:04):
know that you will you will do what needs to
happen here to make it work. Yeah, I think it has.
You know, I recognize that, unlike a lot of my
peers at Columbia, the tight rope that I walk has
no net under it, and that could be scary, but
I do it anyway. Uh. And I always kind of
joke that, like, I sometimes have to put myself in
(17:25):
the same frame of mind as my peers, right, Like,
what would these rich kids do? What decisions would they
make when they're unencumbered by, you know, having to pay
their mom's bills or worrying about having a safety net
and savings and building that by themselves. And so in
a lot of ways, some of that was looking to
the freedom that my peers were able to feel and
(17:47):
and being of the knowledge that I too, am worthy
of that freedom. Uh, and that I've got it I'll
figure it out. I think another sort of survival skill
that I learned that has really help shape my my
reality as it is now is that I grew up
in a community where there was not enough, where scarcity
(18:11):
was produced, right, where the government kept things scarce. I
lived in Section eight housing and on food stamps, and
I was surrounded by other people who simply didn't have
enough to get by. But one thing I learned being
in a community like that is that we create enough
that when my family has food, when my family made dinner,
(18:32):
we didn't bite someone over right. Or when my mom
didn't have a car, the neighbors would drive me to school,
or when my mom didn't have a job, she would
babysit so someone else could go to work. That my
community taught me about what it means to create enough,
to be creative in your generosity, and to be empathetic. Yeah,
(18:55):
and to be empathetic because what you just described is
not happening every day on the regular and more affluent communities.
It is just not Yeah. And I think that that's
one really huge misconception about neighborhoods like the one I
grew up in, right, that what I see this scarcity.
Producing is resilience is community building is relationships and flexible
(19:23):
kinships and families, right, And I think that there's something
really beautiful about that. And I also think that the
world could use more leaders coming out of those perspectives, right,
That we could use leaders like my mom who picks
up food every week from the food bank to distribute
to her neighbors, who takes care of the stray cats
(19:45):
in her neighborhood, right, Like people who genuinely care for
the people around them, And that, especially when our government
doesn't show up for us, that we show up for us.
And there's something so powerful about a community that shows
up for each other. And I when I think about
the community that you've been building online, and how it
(20:09):
looks like you've taken some of those principles and and
kind of instilled them into community building online, would that
be fair to say that's absolutely right? When I moved
from Arizona to New York City to pursue my education,
I looked around and for the very first time, I
didn't feel like community was the people around me, right,
But the people who shared my experiences weren't the people
(20:30):
who lived in the same dorm building or on my campus,
but in fact where young women and fems and non
binary folks that I was connecting with on social media.
And so gen Z Girl Gang, the organization that I
founded out of my freshman year dorm, is really built
on that principle that gen Z has this superpower that
is social media, the ability to connect with anyone, anywhere,
(20:54):
any time, and that that means we can redefine sisterhood
and the practice of it, right, the practice of building
power in our personal networks and mobilizing our relationships not
only to live better professional lives, with better personal lives too,
and g G gen Z Girl Gang at its core
(21:14):
really did stem from from that upbringing of of community
and knowing that we could translate some of that into
the digital space and what is Can you give me
some examples of some of the work that U gen
Z Go Gang does. Yeah, I'm so impressive, incredibly proud
of the work that we do at gen Z Girl Gang.
(21:35):
We have a graduation summit coming up with Microsoft, which
is so cool. We recognize that this pandemic has taken
a huge toll on people our age, right that if
you came into this like me at nineteen and are
now twenty two. You have lost some of your prime
not only fun years, but networking right when you build
(21:56):
your personal and professional network. And so many of us
were called home to care for relatives or had to
go and work jobs that maybe we wouldn't have worked otherwise,
that took away from our education, taking time off of school.
Right that there's so many untraditional paths um that young
folks are taking right now. And so one thing we're
doing in the present is this graduation summit, and we're
(22:19):
going to host workshops and panels on how to create
a nonlinear life plan and embrace an untraditional career and
also how to build a resume. We're gonna have panels
on the postgrad life crisis, right, what does it feel
like to be pulled out of your community and have
to find a new one, And how to demand and
disrupt more in your workforce, right if you are working
(22:41):
somewhere that doesn't represent your values. We also do sort
of programming day to day, which I think is incredibly special.
We constantly are trying to think about how do we
break Instagram, How do we break these social media platforms
that are built on top down follower relationships to create
organic community UM and we do a lot of that
via d M s and d M groups. And one
(23:01):
story that like just I feel like embodies the mission
of gen Z Girl Gang was at the height of
the pandemic, when everyone was isolated, we created these wellness
group chats with people who had never met each other before.
We lived all around the world, and they were just
checking in on each other. Hey, how's everyone doing today.
I'm doing good, I'm doing all right, and they started
to build these relationships. And one moment that really stands
(23:25):
out to me that one of my facilitators shared with
me was one young person talked about how you know
they're not doing so great, they're actually really struggling to
cover their rent right now. And someone else in that chat,
these two people have never previously known each other, was like,
I just got my stimulus check and to be honest,
I don't need it. Can I help you cover your rent?
(23:45):
That's beautiful and that just doesn't happen, right, But I
think that that at its core shows us the power
of relationships, right, that relationships can be activism, that community
build thing is the work that makes our quality of
life better, and that the only reason we don't see
(24:06):
it that way, is because it is often done by
young women and fens. Right that historically women have been
the community builders, have been the caretakers, the nurturers, the connectors,
and so something else at gen Z Grobbing that we
do in terms of culture shifting is about saying community
building is work, and it's important work, and it's about
(24:27):
creating sustainable movements. M hmm, yeah for sure. Yeah. Is
it a nonprofit or how do you how do you fund?
That's a great question. Um. I am paperwork adverse, and
we have always just been this flexible group of friends. Right.
This got started, like I said, out of my freshman
(24:48):
year dorm. We just made an Instagram page and went
about it. And in so many ways we still are
this flexible organization responding to the needs of our community.
And so one thing we do to sort of pull
in resources as we do brand partnerships. Like I said,
we partnered with Microsoft Store to bring this Graduation Summit
to life. We partnered with Instagram to do it Back
(25:10):
to School Survival Summit, and we have a merg line
which the proceeds of which go to our impact work.
So we raised funds kind of like any other digital creator,
I suppose, and I think that in its own way
is interesting. Right when we consider the narrow limits of
what is acceptable right LLCs and nonprofits, they really leave
(25:32):
out a lot of these youth run and youth led
organizations that are sort of informally built, kind of like ours. Well, yeah,
I mean, I launched a company called go Gaze in
two thousand and sixteen, and it was an Instagram account
and the whole objective was to highlight the perspective of female,
(25:52):
trans non binary creative and it was highlighting that work photography,
der doing illustration, animation, And we have like three thousand
people in our community, in our social media community. But again,
we could only survive by doing brand partnerships. And then
you have to if you have a life outside of
(26:13):
doing that, which is you have because you have to
own a living, then you have to hire someone to
do the brand partnerships, and then you need money. And
it's like, you're right, there is a structure that confines
and limits organizations that are built from a mission based position,
and so you can't cannot actually do as much as
(26:37):
you need to do and as much as you probably
could be capable of doing. Without legitimizing your business. And
so one of these ll c s or you know,
whatever the you know, whatever the whatever, you have to
do that in order to grow. But once you do that,
it basically limits your ability to be a mission based
(26:59):
company and it is really problematic. We need an update
on on these structures for sure. Yeah, And I mean
the other aspect about gen Z grow Gang is that
all of our leaders our representative of our community. Right,
two of them are graduating, one the day before graduation
somewhit and the other the day after. Right. The best
(27:19):
people to speak to that event, best people to speak
to that ye are the people who are living in
But they're also the busiest, right, Like they're actively trying
to graduate, they have family coming into town and those
sorts of things. And so I also think when we
think about who does this work, right, we have to
think about that red tape that's put up by paperwork
(27:40):
and having to create a nonprofit or an LLC, and
who has access to those kinds And by the way,
who has the money as well, because it costs money
to be able to hear us, And who is the
time and who was the capacity? Right? Is it the
people who are most affected, who are the most representative
of their community, and the answers no right that the
people who are the most presentative of these communities often
(28:01):
are also the ones that have the least access to
creating and sustaining these organizations. And so the other thing
that I'm really proud of a gen Z crow Gang
is that we've created a work culture that really allows
people to take a step back when they need to
to say that, yeah, I mean, it looks like sometimes
we're not as active, right, Sometimes there are weeks where
(28:22):
nothing gets posted. But we know that this is not
a sprint, it's not a marathon, it's a relay race.
That we passed bitton off to each other um and
that we're a team, and that our community will understand
and the world will keep spinning. If we need a break,
it will. And we've been around for three years now,
so I have to say I think it's working, and
(28:43):
I'm incredibly proud of how the young women and non
binary folks on our team have succeeded not only in
their professional life at gen Z crow Gang, but outside
of it and in their personal lives. That is success,
isn't that you can't be succeeding in one area but
failing in another, because then it's not succeeding, it's not working.
If you're working your ass off and your mental health
(29:06):
is suffering to the point where you can't get out
of bed, that's not working. So if you have an
ecosystem that is supportive of all aspects of your life,
that is a success. Yes. Yes, And I think that
that once again to the saying that I used earlier.
When I think of my my theory of leadership, it's
once again that what we do is not as important
(29:26):
to me is how we do it right. That if
we're pumping out campaign after campaign, but my girls are
burnt out and sad and they're not doing well, then
why are we doing this right? If they are not
living lives that model the lives they want to create
for others, right, if they don't feel free, how are
they going to get other people free? If they don't
feel empowered, how are they going to empower other people?
(29:48):
And can't You can't exactly. And so I really do
believe as a leader that I focus in on on
our how and innovating that because we recognize that this
definition of success that we've inherited is created by old,
rich white men, right, whose success is predicated on oppression
(30:09):
and keeping other people down, And that we will never
become successful that way, right, That our success is about
pulling each other up. Yeah, I'm creating an ecosystem that
is reimagined in a way that actually works for us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So.
Who are some of the voices that inspire you? Who
(30:29):
are some of the voices that inspire me? I think
I feel my most inspired when I'm around by mentees
At Columbia. I have two younger girls who connected with me,
either through social media and the other through a program
for low income students. And I just feel so incredibly
(30:52):
inspired when I see my younger self in them in
so many ways, and I get to help them out
or I get to support them or cheer them on, right,
because I know that that sort of intergenerational connection, right,
that what someone else did for me, when someone else
offered to give me a ride to a storytelling training,
(31:12):
or you know, helped me find enough money to meet rent. Right,
But like those investments in me, I get to reinvest
in others and that they will then go on to
reinvest in people after them and I think I feel
incredibly inspired when I see them winning, when I see
them doing great things, and when I see them taking
(31:33):
up leadership in their communities on and off campus, because
I know that it's sort of the gift that keeps
on giving, right, that they're going to just keep showing
up for others so that they can do the same.
So there there are some of my biggest inspirations. Yeah,
it's being of service. Isn't it an understanding the immense
value that is in that for all of us? Really? Yeah, totally.
(32:00):
I also think, you know, there are so many voices
that don't sort of make it into the headlines. Whether don't, most,
most don't, right, And I think back to teachers who
gave me really good advice or who made me feel
big and didn't shrink me, and I think about how
inspiring the work that they do every day with young
(32:20):
people is. I think about nonprofits in my hometown, like
Youth on their Own, who invested in me, gave me
a monthly stipend to make sure that I could be
a normal teenager, take some time off of work, who
provided me with food and clothing from the from their resources,
and the people that do that work every day are
incredibly inspiring to me. So yeah, I think I think
(32:43):
a lot about the people, especially in my hometown, who
invested in me, and I draw a lot of inspiration
from the work that they do and continue to do.
As we are recording this, we are waiting to hear
if the leaked Supreme Court decision that would overturn Roe v.
Wade is going to go into effect. What were your
immediate thoughts when you saw that news. I mean, this
(33:05):
sounds maybe a little entitled, but I'm just like, this
ship isn't fair, Like this isn't like when you're in
your twenties. I feel like that is peak like fairness,
Like you can just see when things don't feel fair.
And this is one of those moments where I zoom
out and I think, how did we even get here?
(33:27):
And the answer is that the majority of the Supreme
Court justices were appointed by presidents who didn't win the
popular vote, and then that many of those were confirmed
by a Senate that did not buy number represent the
majority of Americans, And so I know that this is
what majority rule looks like, This is not democracy, and
(33:48):
that young people will bear the brunt of this decision.
Even though even though all of the presidents who appointed
the Supreme Court justices I had no say in electing,
I didn't get to vote in these elections, right, And
yet still, for their lifetime appointments, I'll be the one
who has to deal with their decisions. That when I
step up to run for president, I'll probably still see
(34:10):
Amy Cony Barrett on the bench when my children are
making reproductive decisions, She'll probably still be there. And that
is infuriating and so one I felt a deep sense
of unfairness too. I feel a deep sense of worry
for young women, um and and people of color and
(34:31):
low income people all across this country, because I know
that they stand to be the most affected. Right, that
rich women will always have the resources, will always find
a way to gain access to this care. And so
as I look forward, I know that the path forward
(34:51):
is to one center the leadership of people for whom
this has always already been a reality. Right, people in
Texas who have already been denied their right to abortion
by blocking access, right who for years have contended with
not having access to abortion, That we should be looking
to them for their leadership in this moment, And that
(35:11):
on top of that that we know that when are elected,
when our government officials deny us our rights, that our
rights are not derived from them, that we will continue
to show up for us. We will manage our own abortions. Right,
We will continue to UH to create mutual aid funds, right,
(35:35):
will create travel funds, UM, and so that we know
in this moment the responsibility has shifted to us, UM,
and that it's our job to to organize. Yeah, it's
the only option because we can't. Abortion cannot be banned.
Safe abortion is what is getting banned here, right, and
that's ultimately the you know, the concern is how many
(35:59):
how many women of color who are disproportionately going to
be affected, as you said, are going to be seeking
unsafe abortions and will will be horrendously affected. Yeah, and
you know, the alternative to that is that medication abortion
is incredibly effective and safe. And I think that that
(36:23):
is really the direction that we're headed, right, is about organizing.
How do we how do we get access, how do
we increase access, how do we bring down barriers, How
do we as members of our communities service resources, right
to make sure that we're getting trained in how to
help people manage their own abortions, and how do we
(36:44):
secure this access to this healthcare, whether it's included in
our rights given by the government or not UM. And
I think that that really is the way forward, is
not pouring into litigation or legislation, but really in investing
in community UM and investing in these networks, like we said,
of care to really make sure that those most affected
(37:07):
get these get access to abortion regardless of the outcome
of the Supreme Court. And there are there are many
incredible funds that people can donate to that will provide,
as you said, travel funds, abortion funds. And it's a
it's a terrifying time. I mean, I was so shocked.
(37:31):
Not much shocks me, but I was shocked. And I
don't know why I should be, because this this discussion
has been going on for a long time. We kind
of knew it was coming, but when it actually came,
it was like, Wow, I cannot believe that this is happening.
And yet there's there's a there's a feeling of powerlessness
UM that I know so many people are feeling right now,
(37:53):
and it's it's important that we do talk about what
we can do and to stay in solution as much
as possible. That's absolutely right. And you know, just yesterday
I was on a brainstorming call with other leaders in
this space, and we were asking, like, what are the
questions that people are going to have? Right? What are
people feeling? And I think a lot of people are
feeling exactly that, How did we get here? How could
(38:16):
this happen? What can I possibly do about it? Right?
And you're absolutely right. Some of the biggest things people
can do are donate to abortion funds, look into trainings
on how to be a buddy to help people self
manage abortions, look into plan see um and medication abortion,
share good information, and remember that as it stands right
(38:38):
now the moment we're recording, abortion is legal in all
fifty states, and that we have science and public opinion
on our side, and that we are on the right
side of history. And so that it is those mother
efforts that are fighting the upfield battle, not us. They're
the ones fighting the uphill battle. They're the ones clinging
(38:58):
to their last bit of power, and they're they're intimidated
because they see young people, young women like me coming.
This is about limiting our our access to their power.
UM and in every way shows that they are scared,
but we we have to remember and recenter ourselves that
we are on the right side of history and that
they are the ones fighting the uphill battle. Deja, thank
(39:19):
you so much for taking the time to talk today.
I have really enjoyed my time with you, and You're
just such a trailblazer and I'm really excited to keep,
you know, watching you and learning from you and watching
where you go and how and how you do it.
Thank you. I appreciate that VS Voices is part of
(39:42):
Victoria's Secrets ongoing commitment to become one of the world's
leading advocates for women. To deliver on that promise. Together,
we have created the Voices platform to do just that.
Amplify the voices, represent the views and learn from the
unique perspectives of women from every background. Sharing story bring
us closer together, and it's how we move forward, open
(40:03):
up dialog, and raise the game.
Okay, I don't know what you were doing when you're
a teenager, and I'm not going to get into what
I was doing when I was a teenager. But my
guest today was very busy. She was busy organizing sex
said in her school, creating reproductive and sexual health access
across her community, and challenging a United States Senator to
(00:22):
fight for abortion rights. Yeah. Pretty impressive, right. The woman
that I'm talking about is Deja Fox, who also is
one of the youngest presidential campaign staffers in American political history.
You may know her from her work with gen Z
Girl Gang, an organization dedicated to organizing young women online,
or maybe for her work with Planned Parenthood. But one
(00:43):
way or another, Desia is creating a new path for
women who have come of age in the era of
social media. So when I was reading up on you,
I loved how many times I heard you describe yourself
as a future president of the United States. I love that.
Do you still feel that you are a potential future
president of the United States? Yeah? I I not only
(01:03):
intend to run, but I intend to win um And
I know that the more that I say it, the
more I believe it, the more I believe it, the
more other people do. UM. And not just people who
doubt people who look and live like me, but people
who share my experiences hear me say that, and it matters. Right.
Maybe not every little girl that's listening wants to be president,
(01:24):
but I know that declaring my ambition and declaring it
loudly make space for other people to do that too,
and so it's important. Absolutely it does. How else would
you describe what you do in the world. Yeah, I mean,
I'm a storyteller. My activism has always been rooted in
my own story and my personal experience, right from going
(01:46):
to school board meetings and sharing that to change the
sex education curriculum, to going toe to toe with my
senator when I was sixteen based on my own identities,
to going to a school like Columbia, right, Like, all
of this is looped back to my own personal story.
I like to think that I'm a role model and
a mentor for a lot of a lot of people, UM,
(02:07):
And that the way that I show up, particularly on
social media, UM, is an education. And what is possible
that you know you can be a student and being
a strategist, that you can be like struggling to remember
to eat breakfast in the morning and be succeeding. And
I try to stand in that public platform as holy
(02:29):
as I possibly can, as authentically as I can, because
I want to show other people that you can struggle
and succeed at the same time, and that you can
kind of be both, and that you don't have to
make these choices between like being serious and being sexy
and being the smart one or being you know, all
these sort of things. You mean, you're showing an authentic
representation of a woman's life because all of those things.
(02:53):
That's absolutely right, and that you know, I've always said
that to me, how I do what I do is
more certain than what I do that's important to what
you do is important. But yes, how we move through
life is also crucial. Yeah, And I mean, just from
my personal perspective that the work that I do for
(03:15):
me wouldn't be worth doing if I wasn't, you know,
shaking things up. If I wasn't going through the world
making others who hold power a little bit uncomfortable, right,
if I wasn't making just a little bit more space
for the people that come after me, that I really
wouldn't be able to do this work and I wouldn't
want to if I wasn't doing it in a way
(03:36):
that was different or exciting. I relate to you in
that regard. It's it's understanding that to create change, we
have to push boundaries and we have to push people.
And there is a level of being able to sit
with people's discomfort. You have to be able to be
okay with making people uncomfortable in order to do that, right, Um,
(04:00):
which brings me to you know again, when I was
looking at video footage of you, I saw that incredible
footage of you at sixteen years old standing up against
send it to flake Um, challenging him on reproductive rights,
and I was flawed by your confidence and I wanted
(04:23):
to know where that courage came from. Yeah. I think
back to that younger version of myself often, UM, and
I think if her and I were to go toe
to toe today, she would eat me up. She was
something else. She was fierce, and you know, so much
of that advocacy stemmed from the personal that it was
(04:46):
my access to birth control that was on the line, right,
This was my future, my body on the line. Um.
In so many ways it still is. And so it
wasn't some theoretical political game for me, right was about
could I go on to college? Could I Could I
control my body and my future? Um? And so for me,
(05:07):
that passion and that confidence stemmed from the personal um.
But I also think back to you know again, the
power of storytelling. That when I got up and I
told my story and the next day I went viral
on social media, that I got to be on even
footing with the U. S. Senator, and that that can't
(05:29):
be understated when people who have looked, who look and
have lived like me have been intentionally excluded from these
power power positions right from the places of decision making.
And so to be able to utilize my story as
an agent of change making, and then to see that
reaction on social media democratize my access to the space
(05:49):
into the public discourse, it was a huge confidence boost
in so many ways, and it was kind of the
thing I needed to continue being a storyteller. To give
some context for our listeners. You growing up struggled with
being hidden homeless, which I would love for you to
(06:10):
explain for people who don't know what that means. One
in thirty teens in the US experience hidden homelessness, and
it really just means not having a home of your own.
It could mean living with friends or you know, a
guidance counselor, or For me, it was living with my
partner and his family. And that was the language that
(06:31):
I didn't have until sophomore year of high school. Right.
I didn't really know how to describe my experiences, and
it was really helpful to be able to put that
language to it and know that I wasn't alone. There
were so many other young people out there struggling with that. Right.
When we think one in thirty, um, that's just about
one in every classroom. And that's not to say that
(06:52):
hidden homelessness is distributed equally, because it is not, but
it is a helpful visual. Right. How old were you
when you were living with your partner? Um? I moved
on to my mom's house when I was fifteen years old.
You know. There was issues of substance abuse that had
just gotten out of hand, and I knew it was
time for me, in making decisions about my own safety, um,
(07:14):
my own well being to live elsewhere. And so I
bounced around between friends houses, you know, and then eventually
landed at my boyfriend at the time and his family's
home and they welcomed me in like another child, and
that was a really really important part of my experience
in high school. It's interesting I moved out of my
home when I was fifteen as well for similar reasons
(07:38):
to you, and live with a boyfriend. And I wouldn't
have had anywhere to live had I have been able
to live with him. But it's also put like the
fire into me of being able to on my own living,
so that I wasn't reliant on staying in a crappy
relationship with a guide because I needed somewhere to live,
which was the case for for a while. That so
(08:00):
I definitely related to this term which I had never
heard before. And you know, I think that's the case
for so many young people out there right that they
have these rich social networks of friends and support staff
and significant others, and so homelessness for most youth doesn't
actually look like being on the streets. Right. They have
(08:21):
people they can rely on, but that doesn't negate the
experience of not having a home of your own and
the kind of impact that that has um on your
access to resources, or on your mental health or your
physical health or your well being. And you know when
I think about it. I think about it obviously in
relation to reproductive health right and the kind of resources
I had access to. And when I was sixteen, I
(08:43):
went to a planned parenthood and I had no money,
I had no parents, I had no insurance right, but
through Title ten funding, I was able to receive birth
control at no cost to me and walk away with
the peace of mind that my body was my own
and I was making decisions about it, that my circumstances
wouldn't decide my future. And that funding Title tent funding
(09:05):
through which I received birth control is exactly what Jeff
Flake earlier in that day and voted distrib away. So
when we think about where that confidence and that passion
comes from, once again, it was incredibly personal. Yeah. Do
you think most advocacy comes from personal experience? I think
good advocacy does. Um. People always ask me where they
should get started, and I tell them to think about
(09:28):
your own life. Yeah, exactly, you think get personal. That's
my best advice is to really think about how the
news or what you're seeing in politics is intersecting with
your own life, and then to use your personal story.
You think about how does my narrative or my experience,
how can you share it and then to bring your
personal network along, right, to bring your friends, your family,
(09:50):
your significant other, your neighbors into the room. Because the
people who care about you were going to care about
what you care about. Yeah, very much. So. So when
you arrived at Columbia, You've got a d M in
your Instagram from Mina Harris, who I also adore, and
she was asking you to join her aunt, Kamala Harris's
(10:11):
presidential campaign. What was your response to getting that d M?
How shocked to you? Well, this was my sophomore year
of college, so I had already done the fun freshman
year figured things out right in first generation college students,
so the learning curve was heavy. But in my sophomore year,
as I was unpacking my dorm, I actually got a
(10:33):
d M from Mina Harris. That was just a job description.
It was it was more like, here is an opening um.
And so my initial response was saying, I have some
friends who just graduated, and that interesting. Your first response
was not I'm applying. It was like, let me hook
you up as some friends. Yeah, exactly exactly, And I
(10:55):
think that that's really at the core of this story,
Like the meaning of it to me, as I back
on my life, was that absolutely I was going to
put my friends names up, right like I. One assumed
I wasn't qualified, assumed I was too young. And so
you know, I shoot back this d M saying I
have some friends that i'd like to recommend that I
think would be a good fit. And she comes back
(11:16):
to me saying, I think you're a good fit. I
think you should apply. And I just think that there's
such a special relationship between women who do that, right,
women who bring your name up, who see your potential
and push you to see it too. And in so
many ways, that's what I aspired to be, right, I
aspire to put my name or my friends names in
the room. And I know just how important it is
(11:37):
because it's exactly how I landed a job on a
presidential campaign at just nineteen years old and became one
of the youngest presidential campaign staffers in modern history. That's
no small thing. Let's just say that again. One of
the youngest presidential campaign staff in modern history. Yeah, that's
(11:58):
pretty major. It was, and you know, it was earth
shaking for me. And I have to admit that there
were moments where I thought about not taking the job,
and I got some very solid advice from why did
you consider not taking the job? Yeah? So this this
is exactly sort of one of the most interesting parts
(12:19):
of this story. Like I said, I was unpacking that
sophomore year dorm. I had committed to this school and
this college experience, and like I said, I was first
of my family to put to college. So first and foremost,
I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to drop out,
Like this is gonna be a mess. Um. You know,
I have a lot of my own pride tangled up
(12:39):
in this, but I also have family expectations. And let's
not forget that at the time, they were like twenty
people running through Democratic nominee right, Like this was not
a sure thing by any means. I remember. Some of
the barriers for me were that one, I had never
been to Baltimore, the city they were asking me to
move to, and by the time I moved there, I
had still never been. My day in Baltimore was the
(13:00):
day I moved into my apartment. I had never signed
a lease on an apartment. I signed my first lease
when I got there. And the position I was working
in as influencer and surrogate strategists didn't exist before I
got there either. So I was stepping into a new
city in a new job, and I felt very uncertain
of myself understanding. Honestly, Yeah, I spent most of my
(13:23):
first day in the bathroom crying. Um, I like these
photos of me in the bathroom here, like, oh no,
I mean terrifying. It was terrifying. But what courage that
you actually were, like, I am, I am feeling this terror,
but I'm I know that this is the right thing
for me to do. Yeah, And I actually, me and
my coworkers, this is a kind of a funny, um
(13:46):
behind the scenes story, but we all got tattoos of
the word fearless, which was a campaign slogan, and mine
is actually right here, and Kamala Harris wrote it for me.
It's in her handwriting, because for me, that moment was fearless.
It was a moment where I set the logistics aside
(14:06):
and I zoomed out and I took control of my
own story and I said, I don't care what other
people are going to think about this choice. I'm making
it wholeheartedly and I know it is the right thing
to do. I know that my skills can make a difference,
and I know that I support this woman who not
only shares so many identities with me, right as an
(14:28):
Asian American, as a first generation American, its own raised
by a single mom. Right, I saw myself represented in
a way that I never had before. But I also
knew that this was potentially the most important election of
my lifetime, and that there was no sense in sitting
it out. What inside you indicated to you that this
was the right choice, because intellectually you've just given me
(14:51):
a bunch of great reasons. But I'm wondering how you
knew I'm doing this. Like I said, I got a
piece of advice from from Mina Harris, which was to
zoom out that I was getting so caught up in
the little things like who was going to be upset
about it? Who wasn't gonna like my choices? How was
(15:13):
I going to pay for a rental car to move
my stuff? Could I really afford an apartment? Right? I
was getting so caught up in the logistics and how
this was gonna work that I failed to zoom out
and think about what this could mean for me and
my story. But this was literally the opportunity of a lifetime. Uh,
and that I am someone who has always made it
work and that I would make it work this time.
(15:35):
And I have to say that there was sort of
a tipping point for me. Also. I was still attending classes, right,
It was like the first week of classes when I
made this decision, and I was sitting in my in
my Contemporary Civilizations class, which is a required Columbia literature,
We're reading Plato, and I'm just thinking, oh my god,
(15:57):
what am I doing here? Like the most import in
presidential my in presidential election of my lifetime is happening
right now, and literally everyday matters, and I have the
skills that could make a difference. And so it really
was just a timeliness, right that I knew that this
was the time and that there would be no other
(16:19):
time like it. You said that you had always made
it work. And one of the things I want to
reflect is that I know for myself some of the
survival skills that I learned from my really um unsettled childhood.
Actually we're really beneficial as I go. Also because I
(16:43):
too can like work anything out. It's like, no, no,
I've I have lived through some really difficult stuff. I
will work this thing out, and I will make it work.
Same thing, right. So I'm wondering whether you found that
some of your survival skills that you developed at growing
up have helped you with your ambitions and helped you
to be fearless and helped you to have courage to
(17:04):
know that you will you will do what needs to
happen here to make it work. Yeah, I think it has.
You know, I recognize that, unlike a lot of my
peers at Columbia, the tight rope that I walk has
no net under it, and that could be scary, but
I do it anyway. Uh. And I always kind of
joke that, like, I sometimes have to put myself in
(17:25):
the same frame of mind as my peers, right, Like,
what would these rich kids do? What decisions would they
make when they're unencumbered by, you know, having to pay
their mom's bills or worrying about having a safety net
and savings and building that by themselves. And so in
a lot of ways, some of that was looking to
the freedom that my peers were able to feel and
(17:47):
and being of the knowledge that I too, am worthy
of that freedom. Uh, and that I've got it I'll
figure it out. I think another sort of survival skill
that I learned that has really help shape my my
reality as it is now is that I grew up
in a community where there was not enough, where scarcity
(18:11):
was produced, right, where the government kept things scarce. I
lived in Section eight housing and on food stamps, and
I was surrounded by other people who simply didn't have
enough to get by. But one thing I learned being
in a community like that is that we create enough
that when my family has food, when my family made dinner,
(18:32):
we didn't bite someone over right. Or when my mom
didn't have a car, the neighbors would drive me to school,
or when my mom didn't have a job, she would
babysit so someone else could go to work. That my
community taught me about what it means to create enough,
to be creative in your generosity, and to be empathetic. Yeah,
(18:55):
and to be empathetic because what you just described is
not happening every day on the regular and more affluent communities.
It is just not Yeah. And I think that that's
one really huge misconception about neighborhoods like the one I
grew up in, right, that what I see this scarcity.
Producing is resilience is community building is relationships and flexible
(19:23):
kinships and families, right, And I think that there's something
really beautiful about that. And I also think that the
world could use more leaders coming out of those perspectives, right,
That we could use leaders like my mom who picks
up food every week from the food bank to distribute
to her neighbors, who takes care of the stray cats
(19:45):
in her neighborhood, right, Like people who genuinely care for
the people around them, And that, especially when our government
doesn't show up for us, that we show up for us.
And there's something so powerful about a community that shows
up for each other. And I when I think about
the community that you've been building online, and how it
(20:09):
looks like you've taken some of those principles and and
kind of instilled them into community building online, would that
be fair to say that's absolutely right? When I moved
from Arizona to New York City to pursue my education,
I looked around and for the very first time, I
didn't feel like community was the people around me, right,
But the people who shared my experiences weren't the people
(20:30):
who lived in the same dorm building or on my campus,
but in fact where young women and fems and non
binary folks that I was connecting with on social media.
And so gen Z Girl Gang, the organization that I
founded out of my freshman year dorm, is really built
on that principle that gen Z has this superpower that
is social media, the ability to connect with anyone, anywhere,
(20:54):
any time, and that that means we can redefine sisterhood
and the practice of it, right, the practice of building
power in our personal networks and mobilizing our relationships not
only to live better professional lives, with better personal lives too,
and g G gen Z Girl Gang at its core
(21:14):
really did stem from from that upbringing of of community
and knowing that we could translate some of that into
the digital space and what is Can you give me
some examples of some of the work that U gen
Z Go Gang does. Yeah, I'm so impressive, incredibly proud
of the work that we do at gen Z Girl Gang.
(21:35):
We have a graduation summit coming up with Microsoft, which
is so cool. We recognize that this pandemic has taken
a huge toll on people our age, right that if
you came into this like me at nineteen and are
now twenty two. You have lost some of your prime
not only fun years, but networking right when you build
(21:56):
your personal and professional network. And so many of us
were called home to care for relatives or had to
go and work jobs that maybe we wouldn't have worked otherwise,
that took away from our education, taking time off of school.
Right that there's so many untraditional paths um that young
folks are taking right now. And so one thing we're
doing in the present is this graduation summit, and we're
(22:19):
going to host workshops and panels on how to create
a nonlinear life plan and embrace an untraditional career and
also how to build a resume. We're gonna have panels
on the postgrad life crisis, right, what does it feel
like to be pulled out of your community and have
to find a new one, And how to demand and
disrupt more in your workforce, right if you are working
(22:41):
somewhere that doesn't represent your values. We also do sort
of programming day to day, which I think is incredibly special.
We constantly are trying to think about how do we
break Instagram, How do we break these social media platforms
that are built on top down follower relationships to create
organic community UM and we do a lot of that
via d M s and d M groups. And one
(23:01):
story that like just I feel like embodies the mission
of gen Z Girl Gang was at the height of
the pandemic, when everyone was isolated, we created these wellness
group chats with people who had never met each other before.
We lived all around the world, and they were just
checking in on each other. Hey, how's everyone doing today.
I'm doing good, I'm doing all right, and they started
to build these relationships. And one moment that really stands
(23:25):
out to me that one of my facilitators shared with
me was one young person talked about how you know
they're not doing so great, they're actually really struggling to
cover their rent right now. And someone else in that chat,
these two people have never previously known each other, was like,
I just got my stimulus check and to be honest,
I don't need it. Can I help you cover your rent?
(23:45):
That's beautiful and that just doesn't happen, right, But I
think that that at its core shows us the power
of relationships, right, that relationships can be activism, that community
build thing is the work that makes our quality of
life better, and that the only reason we don't see
(24:06):
it that way, is because it is often done by
young women and fens. Right that historically women have been
the community builders, have been the caretakers, the nurturers, the connectors,
and so something else at gen Z Grobbing that we
do in terms of culture shifting is about saying community
building is work, and it's important work, and it's about
(24:27):
creating sustainable movements. M hmm, yeah for sure. Yeah. Is
it a nonprofit or how do you how do you fund?
That's a great question. Um. I am paperwork adverse, and
we have always just been this flexible group of friends. Right.
This got started, like I said, out of my freshman
(24:48):
year dorm. We just made an Instagram page and went
about it. And in so many ways we still are
this flexible organization responding to the needs of our community.
And so one thing we do to sort of pull
in resources as we do brand partnerships. Like I said,
we partnered with Microsoft Store to bring this Graduation Summit
to life. We partnered with Instagram to do it Back
(25:10):
to School Survival Summit, and we have a merg line
which the proceeds of which go to our impact work.
So we raised funds kind of like any other digital creator,
I suppose, and I think that in its own way
is interesting. Right when we consider the narrow limits of
what is acceptable right LLCs and nonprofits, they really leave
(25:32):
out a lot of these youth run and youth led
organizations that are sort of informally built, kind of like ours. Well, yeah,
I mean, I launched a company called go Gaze in
two thousand and sixteen, and it was an Instagram account
and the whole objective was to highlight the perspective of female,
(25:52):
trans non binary creative and it was highlighting that work photography,
der doing illustration, animation, And we have like three thousand
people in our community, in our social media community. But again,
we could only survive by doing brand partnerships. And then
you have to if you have a life outside of
(26:13):
doing that, which is you have because you have to
own a living, then you have to hire someone to
do the brand partnerships, and then you need money. And
it's like, you're right, there is a structure that confines
and limits organizations that are built from a mission based position,
and so you can't cannot actually do as much as
(26:37):
you need to do and as much as you probably
could be capable of doing. Without legitimizing your business. And
so one of these ll c s or you know,
whatever the you know, whatever the whatever, you have to
do that in order to grow. But once you do that,
it basically limits your ability to be a mission based
(26:59):
company and it is really problematic. We need an update
on on these structures for sure. Yeah, And I mean
the other aspect about gen Z grow Gang is that
all of our leaders our representative of our community. Right,
two of them are graduating, one the day before graduation
somewhit and the other the day after. Right. The best
(27:19):
people to speak to that event, best people to speak
to that ye are the people who are living in
But they're also the busiest, right, Like they're actively trying
to graduate, they have family coming into town and those
sorts of things. And so I also think when we
think about who does this work, right, we have to
think about that red tape that's put up by paperwork
(27:40):
and having to create a nonprofit or an LLC, and
who has access to those kinds And by the way,
who has the money as well, because it costs money
to be able to hear us, And who is the
time and who was the capacity? Right? Is it the
people who are most affected, who are the most representative
of their community, and the answers no right that the
people who are the most presentative of these communities often
(28:01):
are also the ones that have the least access to
creating and sustaining these organizations. And so the other thing
that I'm really proud of a gen Z crow Gang
is that we've created a work culture that really allows
people to take a step back when they need to
to say that, yeah, I mean, it looks like sometimes
we're not as active, right, Sometimes there are weeks where
(28:22):
nothing gets posted. But we know that this is not
a sprint, it's not a marathon, it's a relay race.
That we passed bitton off to each other um and
that we're a team, and that our community will understand
and the world will keep spinning. If we need a break,
it will. And we've been around for three years now,
so I have to say I think it's working, and
(28:43):
I'm incredibly proud of how the young women and non
binary folks on our team have succeeded not only in
their professional life at gen Z crow Gang, but outside
of it and in their personal lives. That is success,
isn't that you can't be succeeding in one area but
failing in another, because then it's not succeeding, it's not working.
If you're working your ass off and your mental health
(29:06):
is suffering to the point where you can't get out
of bed, that's not working. So if you have an
ecosystem that is supportive of all aspects of your life,
that is a success. Yes. Yes, And I think that
that once again to the saying that I used earlier.
When I think of my my theory of leadership, it's
once again that what we do is not as important
(29:26):
to me is how we do it right. That if
we're pumping out campaign after campaign, but my girls are
burnt out and sad and they're not doing well, then
why are we doing this right? If they are not
living lives that model the lives they want to create
for others, right, if they don't feel free, how are
they going to get other people free? If they don't
feel empowered, how are they going to empower other people?
(29:48):
And can't You can't exactly. And so I really do
believe as a leader that I focus in on on
our how and innovating that because we recognize that this
definition of success that we've inherited is created by old,
rich white men, right, whose success is predicated on oppression
(30:09):
and keeping other people down, And that we will never
become successful that way, right, That our success is about
pulling each other up. Yeah, I'm creating an ecosystem that
is reimagined in a way that actually works for us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So.
Who are some of the voices that inspire you? Who
(30:29):
are some of the voices that inspire me? I think
I feel my most inspired when I'm around by mentees
At Columbia. I have two younger girls who connected with me,
either through social media and the other through a program
for low income students. And I just feel so incredibly
(30:52):
inspired when I see my younger self in them in
so many ways, and I get to help them out
or I get to support them or cheer them on, right,
because I know that that sort of intergenerational connection, right,
that what someone else did for me, when someone else
offered to give me a ride to a storytelling training,
(31:12):
or you know, helped me find enough money to meet rent. Right,
But like those investments in me, I get to reinvest
in others and that they will then go on to
reinvest in people after them and I think I feel
incredibly inspired when I see them winning, when I see
them doing great things, and when I see them taking
(31:33):
up leadership in their communities on and off campus, because
I know that it's sort of the gift that keeps
on giving, right, that they're going to just keep showing
up for others so that they can do the same.
So there there are some of my biggest inspirations. Yeah,
it's being of service. Isn't it an understanding the immense
value that is in that for all of us? Really? Yeah, totally.
(32:00):
I also think, you know, there are so many voices
that don't sort of make it into the headlines. Whether don't, most,
most don't, right, And I think back to teachers who
gave me really good advice or who made me feel
big and didn't shrink me, and I think about how
inspiring the work that they do every day with young
(32:20):
people is. I think about nonprofits in my hometown, like
Youth on their Own, who invested in me, gave me
a monthly stipend to make sure that I could be
a normal teenager, take some time off of work, who
provided me with food and clothing from the from their resources,
and the people that do that work every day are
incredibly inspiring to me. So yeah, I think I think
(32:43):
a lot about the people, especially in my hometown, who
invested in me, and I draw a lot of inspiration
from the work that they do and continue to do.
As we are recording this, we are waiting to hear
if the leaked Supreme Court decision that would overturn Roe v.
Wade is going to go into effect. What were your
immediate thoughts when you saw that news. I mean, this
(33:05):
sounds maybe a little entitled, but I'm just like, this
ship isn't fair, Like this isn't like when you're in
your twenties. I feel like that is peak like fairness,
Like you can just see when things don't feel fair.
And this is one of those moments where I zoom
out and I think, how did we even get here?
(33:27):
And the answer is that the majority of the Supreme
Court justices were appointed by presidents who didn't win the
popular vote, and then that many of those were confirmed
by a Senate that did not buy number represent the
majority of Americans, And so I know that this is
what majority rule looks like, This is not democracy, and
(33:48):
that young people will bear the brunt of this decision.
Even though even though all of the presidents who appointed
the Supreme Court justices I had no say in electing,
I didn't get to vote in these elections, right, And
yet still, for their lifetime appointments, I'll be the one
who has to deal with their decisions. That when I
step up to run for president, I'll probably still see
(34:10):
Amy Cony Barrett on the bench when my children are
making reproductive decisions, She'll probably still be there. And that
is infuriating and so one I felt a deep sense
of unfairness too. I feel a deep sense of worry
for young women, um and and people of color and
(34:31):
low income people all across this country, because I know
that they stand to be the most affected. Right, that
rich women will always have the resources, will always find
a way to gain access to this care. And so
as I look forward, I know that the path forward
(34:51):
is to one center the leadership of people for whom
this has always already been a reality. Right, people in
Texas who have already been denied their right to abortion
by blocking access, right who for years have contended with
not having access to abortion, That we should be looking
to them for their leadership in this moment, And that
(35:11):
on top of that that we know that when are elected,
when our government officials deny us our rights, that our
rights are not derived from them, that we will continue
to show up for us. We will manage our own abortions. Right,
We will continue to UH to create mutual aid funds, right,
(35:35):
will create travel funds, UM, and so that we know
in this moment the responsibility has shifted to us, UM,
and that it's our job to to organize. Yeah, it's
the only option because we can't. Abortion cannot be banned.
Safe abortion is what is getting banned here, right, and
that's ultimately the you know, the concern is how many
(35:59):
how many women of color who are disproportionately going to
be affected, as you said, are going to be seeking
unsafe abortions and will will be horrendously affected. Yeah, and
you know, the alternative to that is that medication abortion
is incredibly effective and safe. And I think that that
(36:23):
is really the direction that we're headed, right, is about organizing.
How do we how do we get access, how do
we increase access, how do we bring down barriers, How
do we as members of our communities service resources, right
to make sure that we're getting trained in how to
help people manage their own abortions, and how do we
(36:44):
secure this access to this healthcare, whether it's included in
our rights given by the government or not UM. And
I think that that really is the way forward, is
not pouring into litigation or legislation, but really in investing
in community UM and investing in these networks, like we said,
of care to really make sure that those most affected
(37:07):
get these get access to abortion regardless of the outcome
of the Supreme Court. And there are there are many
incredible funds that people can donate to that will provide,
as you said, travel funds, abortion funds. And it's a
it's a terrifying time. I mean, I was so shocked.
(37:31):
Not much shocks me, but I was shocked. And I
don't know why I should be, because this this discussion
has been going on for a long time. We kind
of knew it was coming, but when it actually came,
it was like, Wow, I cannot believe that this is happening.
And yet there's there's a there's a feeling of powerlessness
UM that I know so many people are feeling right now,
(37:53):
and it's it's important that we do talk about what
we can do and to stay in solution as much
as possible. That's absolutely right. And you know, just yesterday
I was on a brainstorming call with other leaders in
this space, and we were asking, like, what are the
questions that people are going to have? Right? What are
people feeling? And I think a lot of people are
feeling exactly that, How did we get here? How could
(38:16):
this happen? What can I possibly do about it? Right?
And you're absolutely right. Some of the biggest things people
can do are donate to abortion funds, look into trainings
on how to be a buddy to help people self
manage abortions, look into plan see um and medication abortion,
share good information, and remember that as it stands right
(38:38):
now the moment we're recording, abortion is legal in all
fifty states, and that we have science and public opinion
on our side, and that we are on the right
side of history. And so that it is those mother
efforts that are fighting the upfield battle, not us. They're
the ones fighting the uphill battle. They're the ones clinging
(38:58):
to their last bit of power, and they're they're intimidated
because they see young people, young women like me coming.
This is about limiting our our access to their power.
UM and in every way shows that they are scared,
but we we have to remember and recenter ourselves that
we are on the right side of history and that
they are the ones fighting the uphill battle. Deja, thank
(39:19):
you so much for taking the time to talk today.
I have really enjoyed my time with you, and You're
just such a trailblazer and I'm really excited to keep,
you know, watching you and learning from you and watching
where you go and how and how you do it.
Thank you. I appreciate that VS Voices is part of
(39:42):
Victoria's Secrets ongoing commitment to become one of the world's
leading advocates for women. To deliver on that promise. Together,
we have created the Voices platform to do just that.
Amplify the voices, represent the views and learn from the
unique perspectives of women from every background. Sharing story bring
us closer together, and it's how we move forward, open
(40:03):
up dialog, and raise the game.
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