September 14, 2023 • 36 mins
Jones makes her mark on history and The Tour ‘23 as one of the first trans models to ever wear a pair of iconic Victoria’s Secret wings. Throughout this deeply revealing interview, Jones discusses her small-town upbringing, VS as a symbol of feminine power, and her role in the Prime Video special. In addition to modeling, she is an advocate, and works to create space for all people in the fashion community. Listen as she tells her story, highlights those who have inspired her, and gives never-before-heard details about her photos from the My Wings, My Way campaign.
Watch the full-length special of The Tour ’23 on Prime Video and follow @amandadecadenet and @victoriassecret to never miss a moment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to VS Voices. I'm amand Decadey. Colin Jones is
a New York based model and one of the faces
of this year's VS Wings campaign. In this episode, we
talk about Colin's childhood in Utah, had day to day
experience being a trans woman in New York, and the
role spirituality has played in launching her into the world
(00:20):
of fashion. Hi, how are you good? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I am doing fabulous. Thank you so much for having
this conversation with me.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Oh my gosh, thank you, Colin Jones, thank you. Welcome
to Voices.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you for having me. Also, we have like similar
vibes going on, like the hair. I'm like, I my
professional glasses but I don't wear but I still need it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, where are you? Are you in New York?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So right now we are coming at you live from
our SOHO office in New York Downtown.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's a little new, it's a temporary change. But okay,
I'm such a different vibe all right. Well, it's so
nice to meet you, so nice to me. I'll make
a thank you so much again for having mem I'm
super excited to get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Of course, So it is exciting because you are the
first trans model to appear as part of the VS
Wings campaign. This is a big deal. What does this
moment mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Honestly, it's kind of just like what you said, I
think that this is a very historical moment, and I'm
very proud of all the people that have been a
part of this project. I'm really proud of the women
behind this project, and overall, I'm just very proud of
the changes that have been made on Victoria's Secrets Behalf
to be a lot more diverse and inclusive and just
(01:36):
celebrate all types of women from all different walks of life.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Absolutely, And what has it been like working with VS.
What's your experience been.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It sounds so funny to say, but honestly, like ever
since I was a little girl and I started making
those steps in my transition, I really did so many
times often look for Victoria's Secret as a just that
symbol of that feminine power and really just embracing yourself
and stepping into that that ownership of oneself and that
(02:07):
self power and having that fulfillment and providing it for yourself.
And I think that that's exactly what this experience was
for me. Just kind of that full circle moment, and
also just getting to witness and experience the changes that
have been made and just the newness and the freshness
and the specialness of it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, it's really nice when companies do actually do what
they say they're going to do, because a lot of
the time they actually don't. And I get asked a
lot when I do interviews about myself working with VS
about like, oh, come on, have they really made change?
It's like, yeah, they really have, actually.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely, Like the proof is in the putting, you, guys,
the proof is in the pudding exactly. We've tasted the pudding,
and the pudd is good. It's not happy, Okay, it's vanilla,
maybe chocolate.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Maybe chocolate.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh that's not my vibe. But you gotta live that truth.
You gotta leave to their.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Own celebrating all different perspectives here the putting analogy you've
heard exactly. So what part of this project are you
most excited to share?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I think I'm most excited for people to just see
the fact that Victoria's Secret has really done an amazing
job at preserving all of the amazing old traits and
just sort of the way that the vibe of Victoria's secret,
what it was. We're taking all the good parts of
what it used to be and we are filtering that
and now we're supporting it with people with amazing careers
(03:32):
and athletes. It's just we're including a lot of other
people in that fantasy that was originally established, and I
think it's just really special to be a part of that.
And I also witness other people being a part of
that for the first time, like athletes and doctors and
just icons that absolutely deserve their wings. We all deserve
to fly.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We do indeed. So let's talk a little bit about
your childhood. Because you grew up in a small town
called Spanish Folk in Utah. Can you tell me what
that was like as a trans kid? So the town
was called Spanish Fork. Let me just I'm paint a picture.
If you close your eyes, if you will, please, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Here we are. We have the fire going, we have
some crackling fire. We have a tumbleweed. We have some cows.
What are we smelling. We're smelling the cows. We're smelling
the grass. We're smelling the mountains. We're smelling the rodeos
that are happening. Two blocks away. Okay, So now now
we kind of know where I'm growing up. Okay, yes,
so let's talk about the school a little bit. I
went to a charter school. We had a uniform grow
(04:34):
you know, I rocked that uniform though.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh I'll bet you did. I can close my eyes
and imagine that. Okay, good, good, Yeah, I gotta paint
that picture. That's a very important part.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So, yeah, I went to a kind of like a
religious charter school that was really close to my house.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
When you say religious, was it Momon?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So yeah, they just had a lot of Mormon practices
that they also incorporated in the teaching system. To be
more specific, they had like seminary classes, and the boundaries
between religion and school, which I personally think is very
important to have, wasn't necessarily super implied, and so I
think it's important to remember that. And honestly, with that
(05:12):
being said, I'm very grateful that that was my experience
because I think there was a lot of changes that happened,
and obviously I experienced a lot from that and it's
made me who I am today ultimately, So I definitely
owe a lot to that experience and would not trade
that experience for the world.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Of course, what is it like now when you go back?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I would say I think in this past year of modeling,
it's been a little easier for me to travel back there.
I've had a lot of windows in between work where
it's like I'll be in London and then I'll fly back.
I didn't really necessarily have my own home base, But
since moving to New York full time, and I think
it was May beginning of May, it's been a little
bit easier for me to kind of have that route now.
So instead of traveling from Utah to London and Utah
(05:56):
and Paris, and it's easier for me to have New
York as my roots. I'm not really traveling to Utah
too often anymore, but when I do go back, I
mainly just visit family. I think culturally it's not as
progressive as I would like it to be, especially for
my safety and just my comfortability. I think that as
of right now, I'll kind of have to just be
(06:16):
with my family unfortunately, unless I choose to go a
little bit north up towards Salt Lake. But where I
come from especially it's just a little too under exposed,
if you will, And we have some Californians coming into Utah.
So I'm hoping that that will hopefully culturally wake some
things up and get some changes to be happened. And
I hope that my presence kind of had a little
bit of that catalyst to that change, and hopefully I
(06:39):
change some minds and planted some seeds and ultimately to
me that that's what really matters.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So flaunting seeds is important. It takes time. Just got
to keep planting the seeds. Absolutely, it's a process.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You got a water. I'm a farm girl, so I
know you know, we got the seeds, you got the water.
Sometimes you talk to the seeds. You gotta give it
that seat.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Give it some love. And there's a time when you know,
you plant and a time when you reap right. So
this fallow times exactly, I can get with those analogies. Absolutely,
you're down for it, Yes, I really am.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
We're in the waiting stage right now, if you will,
we're gonna we're gonna harvest later. We've planted some seeds
and we're out here doing the work right now. You know,
we're watching, we're farming, we're planting, we're we're getting that
all done.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I see that happening. So how would you describe the
female role models that you grew up around?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Oh, my goodness, I just don't know where I would
even be without them, to be completely honest, like a
lot of times our moms are our role models, or
our grandma's are our role models, or just another person
in that feminine position becomes our role model. And there's
a reason I think that for me and my experience
being a trans woman, like I really did look to
those powerful women in my life for examples, and I'm
(07:54):
so fortunate to have them be so supportive and be
so loving and throughout my whole transition, both my mom
and my grandmother and all my sisters have just been
so protective and have really made their mission to carve
out a safe space for me to really explore that femininity,
and it's so healing in my adult life. They're really
taking that time to just allow me to explore all
(08:16):
those things that kind of felt like I almost missed
out on in a way, I think as trans people,
you know, we miss out on so many key life experiences,
and so to have those people just be so mindful
of that and so consider of that and also try
to help correct that like just to me that it's
such an emotional and humbling experience.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So what was some of the things that you feel
like you missed out on? And I think it's different
for every trans person, but when you think about it,
you think about those key experiences that a woman has
growing up and how that kind of shapes her. You
think about her going to a girl's summer camp or
her going to, you know, taking a dance class. There
(09:00):
were ballet classes I missed out on that I really
wanted to do. And as trans people, you know, a
lot of times people don't really think about us missing
out on that experience. You know, we're very focused on
the present and transition, which is great. It's great to
be present, but also it is important to be very
mindful that, you know, a lot of times people from
trans experiences have missed out on a lot, and we're
just trying to live our life and kind of correct
(09:22):
that and heal as much as we can from that.
I'm so pleased you brought that up, because actually I
was unaware of that, and that's a really significant consideration
and I'm so pleased that you made me aware of that.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh my goodness. Absolutely thank you for being open to it.
That's what this conversation is about, you know, Like I
think that for me and my mission, originally I wanted
to get started and modeling so that I could kind
of bridge that gap between cisseup people and trans people
and kind of have that open dialogue that's so needed nowadays.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
It really is, It really is. How would you educated
on the trans communit as a kid? What kind of
awenness did you have?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So I had very I think just growing up Utah
in such a Mormon culture. I really was in kind
of the heart of the Mormons, very very south in Utah.
I was very under exposed to what even the LGBTQ
community stand for. I left the church when I was
in fourth grade, and so I just want to preface
this by saying, I have so much respect for the
people that are still in the religion, and I will
(10:24):
always honor and respect the people that continue to practice
that religion. However, based on my own experiences with the
trauma that it has given me and the experiences that
I've had in the religion, you almost get shut off
from the outside world in a way. You become so
protected in a way where it's almost harmful. You become
too protected, and I feel like that's what happened for
(10:45):
me in the beginning of my experience. And I also
just given my family history, my father grew up in
a very very religious family, very very Mormon, very textbook Mormon,
and so just from the time I was young, I've
had those stereotypes and those gender roles put on me
by my father around what toys I could play with,
around what clothes I should wear, around how I should talk,
(11:06):
around how I should dress, even around you know, my
interests and hobbies.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know that
your career came to you first through a psychic so crazy,
which I loved. I'm big into that. So I was like, oh,
my god, amazing. Did you grow up with, you know,
a belief in psychic practices or what happened when your
(11:32):
mom came to you and said, hey, I got a
psychic rating and here's what they told me.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
This is such a good story. I truly truly loved
telling this story. When I left the church, when my
mom originally pulled all my family members out and she
made those connections that the church wouldn't be good for
my mental health, and especially my transition at the time,
and she just selflessly made so many sacrifices for me
and the sake of our family as a unit, which
I'm so grateful for and I know that I wouldn't
be here without her. But to go back to your
(11:59):
question the psychic, when we did leave the church, my
mom absolutely still had that really beautiful kind of divine
practice held in our house. And I think the way
that my mom did it was so amazing because she
didn't really force it upon us after we left the church.
I think she really gave us that time to let
(12:20):
us kind of discover our own religious practices because you know,
I think at the end of the day, in my
personal opinion, it's really important to be open to all
different cultures and all different religions, all different walks of life.
And again, that's why I'm so proud and so happy
to be a part of this Victoria's Secret project, because
this was the time to do that. You know, this
is a project where all that energy can be put
(12:40):
to this one really detailed project and all of us
can really come together and put intent towards that, which
I think is really cool. But yeah, she always just
kind of held those practices around gratitude and karma, and
so she started to kind of get into the whole
physical world. She started to get into reiki and ernal
and yoga and just really started it better herself after
(13:03):
she kind of had her spiritual awakening when we all
removed ourselves from that religious system, and so she was
just kind of practicing that for a couple of years,
and I had exposure to that, and I was just
kind of like focusing on my own religion at the time.
And then it was her birthday and she had a
birthday present to like have a psychic reading, like a
(13:23):
session with the psychic, and she also like as a
part of that, as like a part of the package,
she got some bonus readings, and so she asked, like
me and my sisters and my grandma if we wanted
to join her amazing, and so we all went in
and we had our readings. It was so beautiful, just
truly like such a spiritual experience, Like you could just
(13:43):
kind of feel the presence in the room. And it's
not that I'm like skeptical, you know what I mean,
But like I'm the kind of girl where I'm like, okay,
if there's a ghost in the room, Like I got
to see some stuff happening, you.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Know, Yeah, I need some crew totally, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know what I mean, Like I gotta see lips
in the TV. I got mirrors cracking. But I'm open
to it. So I sat down in my session, and
I know it sounds very corny, but I always kind
of knew where I was going to be a model.
I always had this kind of intuitive and also just
obsessed with the industry since I was in like second grade,
since I really discovered the power of fashion and gender
(14:20):
and what that meant and how it could all be
tied into art and also just the LEO and me
as well. Like I loved being a part of that,
but I never really knew how to get started, especially
being like trans. I hadn't really seen many trans models
and so and just in media and everything. Like I said,
in Utah was very protected and shielded from that kind
of like whole world. And so I think that's kind
(14:42):
of the part I was looking for more clarity with
with the psychic. You know, she asked us to kind
of have intention with the session, So that was kind
of my intention. And immediately right off the bat, like
the car she was willing to do like she did Terror. Yeah,
she did Tarot. She kind of did like a mix
of everything, but the Terror reading for me is kind
of what felt most aligned. And so yeah, she was
(15:03):
just kind of shuffling the cards and it was just
so divine like it was it was almost like watching
a performance, like just artistically like there was no way
that it could have been rehearsed, but it felt so
rehearsed and so.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Special because it was so on point.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It was just so on point. It just I resonated
so deeply with it and it was exactly what I needed.
And so that's just kind of when I really opened
up myself to this whole universal experience and this whole
divine life experience and system that we have going on
your own spiritual practice right, absolutely absolutely my own religion.
That's kind of at that moment when I found my
(15:38):
own religion, when I really felt like I was spiritually connected.
So yeah, she told me like a lot of amazing things,
just kind of about the details, about like kind of
what my life would look like. But I think for me,
I was like, girl, how do I get there? Like
what am I going to do? You know, Like We're
in the middle of Utah. I don't really see many
trans models.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
How am I going to do this?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Like, let's do it. I I'm here for it, but like,
how are we going to do it?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah? What's the vehicle exactly? And she said that I
was going to get dreams.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I was going to start to get dreams, and my
dreams would ultimately tell me, you know, the steps to
make that career change. And so I was just like, girl, like,
I love you so much, thank you for the session
of a special but dreams, like right, the dreams that
I was having was like I'm flying and then I'm
eating a corn dog, and then I'm petting a zebra,
you know, like when it comes to those things, especially
with like she didn't give me any sort of time
(16:25):
frame either. She just said, you're going to get dreams.
So I didn't know if it was going to be
a dream tonight. I didn't know it was going to
be a dream next week. I didn't know if i'd
be sixty five and I'd start my modeling career. I
didn't know what was going on. And where were you
walking at the time. So I was actually working at
Taco Bell. I was a sixteen year old in high school,
just folding my taco saving up my money, just a
(16:45):
little girl dreamman of her New York modeling fantasy. But
at the time, I was like, I think it's more
realistic for me to go to LA And I had
no clue about kind of the whole markets of the
fashion industry, so I didn't even know, like LA is
kind of more not that it's not a high fashion vibe,
it just is for more that commercial that beah totally.
I didn't really know that New York was like kind
of that point that that I should have been going
(17:06):
to for the work that I wanted to do, which
was like runway and print and all that kind of stuff.
And so yeah, I was just like, I'm going to
go to California. I'm going to sell my sinibon delights,
and then I'm just going to live my dream life fantasy.
And then it was my senior year going into high school,
and I decided to stop working from Taco Bell. I
just like kind of felt like I just wanted to
give the rest of my attention to my senior year
(17:27):
kind of again, have those experiences like prom and the
thing I kind of missed out on. I really wanted
to just be as present as possible, and I was
really fortunate to get my high school counselors to cut
my year and a half so I only had to
go for half a year. Because girl, I know I
was not going to college. I was like, if there's
one thing that's happening, I don't know if modeling is
going to work out, I don't know if broad I
(17:49):
don't know what's going to work.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Out, but it is not college.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But I know where I'm not going after I'm done
with the school system. I need a hot minute where
I can just do nothing but have a cute little
margarita in my hand and some sun on my face
because I've earned it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I think that it's really important for people to remember
that we all possess this power inside of us, and
we all can create our own reality. Our thoughts are
so powerful, well, intuition, absolutely intuition, And I'm really really
grateful for my mom for really implementing that kind of mindset,
that way of thinking of just being your own advocate,
(18:23):
being your own support, or really believing in yourself. I
also feel like as a trans woman, you know, we
have to from a really young age. Whenever we start
our transition, we have to just know who we are,
you know, we have to just feel that sense of
security and feel that sense of confidence because it is
constantly challenged every single day. The minute we walk into
a bathroom, the minute we go here, the minute we're
(18:44):
on the cover of something. You know, we were constantly
met with those people that believe that we shouldn't be
there and believe that we are, you know, not who
we say we are and who you know, we show
up and be authentic version of ourselves, and I think
it's really really important to challenge that.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It's interesting, though, you're talking about being your own advocate
and you know, knowing who you are and supporting yourself,
and I was thinking about how it sounds like your
mom really did that for you, right. She gave you
that She role modeled what that looked like and what
that felt like. So you were like, oh, I know
how to do this absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think, especially going back to you know why, I said,
I was grateful for that school experience, although it came
with a lot of trauma. I saw the way that
my mom really responded to that, and I saw the
action that she took and she was just such a
warrior at really carving that space for me in the
beginning to find myself. And once I did find myself
(19:39):
through her, that's when I was really able to just
like grab to that and go, you know, once I
had that sense of inner confidence that she had given
to me, and she just did such a good job
loving me, you know, like just as a parent.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
How beautiful. Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Just I feel like trans are not gay or not
gender anything. As parents, like, it's just it's so important
to just love your child, you know, like let them
pick out the toy. You know. If a barbie makes
him happy, give him the barbie. If a football makes
her happy, give her the football. That was another thing
about my experience that was a little confusing for me
(20:16):
growing up, especially in Utah's It's also important to talk
about so many other gender stigmas that we have going on,
especially around girls and boys and those stereotypes that we
put on people growing up. It was really hard for
me in my school system to see the dress code
changes that were implemented on the females versus the biological males, if.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
You will, so, I mean the double standard, Yeah, the double.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Standard, thank you, you know, they would come with rulers
and check to see if the boy's hair was past
our jawline, and then the girls could buzz it.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
The girls could braid it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
The girls could wear breads, the girls could wear skirts, pants,
the guys could not wear skirts. The guys cannot wear
you know what I mean. So it's just it was
just those levels to it that kind of just started
to confuse my brain. And I think that's where my
mom really stepped in, and that's where she kind of
corrected everything.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That's when she came. What did she do?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
She just kind of let me know that I could
be whoever I wanted to be, and I didn't need
to think about it. There wasn't any thought that needed
to be behind my reasoning with choosing the barbie. I
could just choose the barbie because it made me. It
was me, you know, it felt like the best decision.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It was authentic.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Absolutely. She really just implemented that importance of authenticity and
allowed me to be authentic. And she would just do
an amazing job at finding any sort of window where
I could be authentic in Utah, any sort of area
where she could because outside of the home, my mom
couldn't really do much protecting for me. You know, I
was thrust into you know, surrounded by Mormons and my
(21:46):
peers and in that school system. But she was just
so amazing at finding that time in the house outside
of the house in the school. When when things started
getting really complicated with my transition, especially with the dress
code and everything, like, she was the first person, you know,
really again just remind me about the importance of the
decisions I was making and how important it is to
(22:07):
always be fully in our authenticity.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
How is it for you to move to New York,
which is not that long ago, and to have the
freedom to live more authentically?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
These are amazing questions. I like to tell people that
I am a New Yorker born in Ushah. I think
when my mom really started to teach me about authenticity
and how important and special my authenticity is, I started
to really wonder, Okay, well, if my mom's saying authenticity
is so important, then why am I not seeing it
around me? You know, why is my environment not reflecting that?
(22:40):
Why are these people around me conforming and why are
they performing? And just in this system that is so
opposite of that. And it really started to get my
mind thinking about, Okay, well where do all these authentic
people collect? And that's really when I started to get
exposure to New York. I started to really search about
these places where these authentic peceeple kind of and what's
(23:03):
the word I'm looking for? The aggregate community? Yes, just
all that, all those that word ite if you will, Yes,
all of that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes, that family of descriptive woods exactly that tree.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yes, But yeah, I think I just kind of looked
at New York at that place where it's like, you
could just be authentic. You don't have to. You can
wear what you want, you can say what you want.
If you want to go up and give someone a
high five on the street, you can do that and
no one's going to bat and eye, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And what does it mean to you though, to live authentically?
How would you describe that?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh? My goodness, Authenticity is not just physical for me.
It's not just what I'm wearing. It's not just the makeup.
It's not just how my hair looks. It's really important
for me. But authenticity is it bleeds in all different
categories of my life. I need to feel like I
am safe to speak my truth. I need to feel
(23:55):
like I am safe to explore all different hearts of myself,
especially being a young adult. You know, Like I just
had my twentieth birthday last week, and happy birthday, thank you.
I was doing a lot of thinking about kind of
just this next phase of my life and how grateful
I am to be in New York. In this next
phase of my life. I think I'm having like the
(24:16):
Friends experience, if you will, just where I get to
authentically also make mistakes, because I think that's also a
huge part of authenticity. You know, none of us are perfect,
and it's really important to remember that. And that's why
I also like again Victoria's Secret was so special to
me because they're all about that authenticity, and they're all
(24:37):
about just celebrating what it means to be a woman living,
you know, making those mistakes, figuring it out, trying, shooting
for the stars, dreaming big, owning, supporting, loving, like just
all that amazing stuff that comes with it.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I'm writing a book about authenticity at the moment, so
I love that you've brought it up so many times
because it's one of my favorite set objects. Obviously, you know,
I was so inspired when I was researching you, and
I read that you wish more people would ask you
about your day to day life as a trans woman.
(25:13):
Can you tell me what you meant by that?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Absolutely? Firstly, authenticity is such a vibe. It's truly like
there's there's a few things in this life that I
genuinely will die on my grave for when it comes
to the principles of life, and I believe that balance, authenticity, loving, supporting, happiness,
(25:37):
they just all fall under that same brand. So congratulations
for writing that book. Super excited, can't wait to read it. Yeah,
and I'm not a big reader, so that says a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But I'll do an audio book and you can listen
to that one. Maybe I'll interview you separately about that
because I think you have a lot of incredible things
to say.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Actually, oh my goodness, I am turning to read a
girl that's going to be so excited. But yes, to
answer your question, I think that when I talk about authenticity,
especially being a trans woman, it kind of just goes
back to the points I was making earlier, where I
feel like a lot of people in interviews, especially with LGBTQ,
(26:13):
they're very, very focused on the present, and they're very
very focused on the future, and it's important to do that,
and it's respectful to do that, especially with trans people.
You know, a lot of times we're not very comfortable
with talking about our past, and there's a reason for that.
You know, they're very vulnerable. And to have it be
so open and to have it be in the media
and in this world, it's very scary. It's a brave
(26:34):
thing to do. But with me and my brand, that
for me is the most important And in my work,
I always want to be that person that feels like,
you know, you can come to me and have those conversations.
And I want to be that trans woman friend that
you can go to when you're not sure about saying something,
or you're feeling a little confused about something, or I
(26:55):
definitely just want to represent and advocate as best I can.
And so when I talk about interviews and I talk
about authenticity, it's just it's really important to remember that
our experience at the end of the day, like when
the cameras do go off, when the interviews do finish
and wrap, this is not something we take off, you know,
this isn't a position of work that we're stepping out of.
(27:15):
We still are going into the restroom at the end
of the day and having those experiences with those people
that have those mentalities, and we're still questioning our safety
in those spaces at night. We're still especially in dating too.
Like I'm a twenty year old and I'm just barely
getting started in the dating world, and it's scary, you know, Like.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I'll bet what's your experience been with that.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's been kind of a mix right now, Like I
it's really really I think I'm realizing it's important for
me to have those relationships outside of the industry, outside
of dating, outside of everything, Like it's very important to
have those people in your life that really ground you
and that remind you about what's important and that really
look out for you and watch for your safety, watch
(27:59):
for well being. And so that's definitely been a huge
focus absolutely for me. It's been really important for me
to remember that, especially being a trans woman, like having
other trans women that I can really talk to and
just kind of get their advice with, like that for
me has been so important. Right now, have you found
those women I have? I've been really fortunate in my
(28:21):
experience to find those women, and I think for me,
this conversation is kind of like a beautiful spider web
when you think about it, because like this point kind
of ties back to what I was just talking about
when it comes to those authentic people in Utah. Like,
I think that a part of the reason why I
was also longing to go to New York is because
I wanted to have those trans women friends that I
could really rely on and that I could really use
(28:43):
for support in the same way that CIS people can
come to me and ask questions about trans women, you
know what I mean. Like, Yeah, to have that now,
it's almost like a really beautiful circuit that's finally connected,
you know, Like I can have these open conversations with
my trans women and I can have a deeper understanding
for them and their experience. And then being someone that
is of this young experience, I can kind of bringe
(29:04):
that gap and the modeling industry, and so yeah, I
just feel very grateful with this position that I'm at
right now, and I feel very fortunate with the relationships
I have. And again, I definitely do think it's still
very important to remember that there's still so many struggles
and so many trials that we're facing on a day
to day basis, and it's really really important that we
(29:25):
have the support of the people that want to learn
so much from us, and they want to, you know,
capitalize off of our authenticity and our juicy, sparkly energy,
but then they don't really want to support and advocate
for and it's just really important that we have those
actions and those words aligned together. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
It makes a lot of sense, it really does. What
kind of change do you hope you'll be able to
affect in I guess in the modeling industry.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I think for me, it's kind of like what
I said, I would love to be almost a bridge,
a London bridge, a luxury London bridge.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I love the bridge analogy. I use that myself a.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Lot, you know what I mean, Like I just I
really want to be someone that I just want to
be like your girl pal, you know what I mean.
I just want to be that girl that you can
go to if you're feeling confused about something or you
just want to talk about something. Like I said, I
just I want to be that bridge for the trans
women outside of the industry, and also understanding the power
(30:32):
of my influence, understanding the power of the eyes that
are watching me and the seeds that I can plant
my farm, if you will, kind of just building this
farm right now and harvesting that crop and really feeding
the people off that land. And so it's a really
exciting project. It's a very long project, but I'm very
(30:52):
committed and I'm here for the journey. And like I said,
I think it's just important to remember that I'm not
always going to get it right. You know, I can't
speak for all trans people. I can't speak for you know,
there's a very specific window of people I can speak for.
But I know I can speak for myself, and I
know I can speak for my experience, and I know
that a lot of people have similarities with my experience,
(31:14):
and I know that a lot of people can learn
from that. And I'm hoping at the end of the
day to just have a greater understanding on all ends.
And I would just like to ultimately show people that
trans women are just We're just women. You know, trans
people are just people. Gay people are just people. We
you know, people should be able to play with a
teddy bear and wear a dress and you know, have
(31:37):
a glass of wine at the end of the night.
We're all just people. Live in the life and we're
all figuring it out so well. I am very excited
to see what you grow in your farm.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I'm very very excited. I have a feeling that you
are going to be able to do exactly what you
hope to do.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, it's really it's going to be excited to watch.
And you know, before we wrap up, I wanted to
share with you something that is really special. I managed
to get a look yesterday at this incredible photograph which
we're going to pop up on the screen. Now, let's
(32:18):
have a look. Oh my goodness, there you are. Look
at that. Look at you.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Have you seen that before?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I have not. This is the first. Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
How do you feel seeing that?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I am When I was really going through those traumatic
experiences in Utah, and I was really having those moments
where I was wondering, you know, what is this all about?
What is this life experience about? Why am I here?
What is this role that I'm fulfilling? And what's my purpose?
(32:56):
Why am I in Utah? Like? Why am I the
one that's experience these things? And there was often a
vision and an image of my life and what I
would look like, what I would be doing, the people
that would surround me, where I'd be living, and I
held so strongly onto that image and I really really
(33:17):
used it as a just a glimmer of hope in
a time of darkness. And you know, that vision, and yeah,
that image that I painted for myself, also in combination
with my mother's support, really are the reason that I'm
here today. And to see that image and to see
(33:40):
the girl that I saw in my mind when I
was in fourth grade and imagining her, It's just a
very very humbling and very very just grounding and special experience.
Thank you so much for being here with me and
for just having this conversation. I'm really really grateful that
I'm able to talk with you about things I feel
(34:03):
so passionate about, especially authenticity and again with Victoria's secret.
I just this has been such an amazing experience from
starting to finish, especially in me shooting the whole thing.
I can't wait to share more about my experience and
what it was like to fly. And yeah, I just
I just want to remind people that we all have
(34:25):
it in us, you know, we we can do whatever
we want to do. There's no there's no limit for
our lives, and this is one guaranteed experience that we
have right now, and so you know, we get to
decide however we want to live that and if we
if we want to play with the toys we want
to play with, if we want to live in the
places we want to live, if we want to share
(34:45):
those experiences with the people we want to share with.
We should absolutely be allowed to do that and live
as authentically as we can. So that's that's what I
have to say about that.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
That is such a beautiful photograph. It's been such a
treat to talk with you, and I will be know
that I will be watching and sharing you on.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Thank you so much, and thank you all my little friends,
with my faithless friends outside of the screen, and just
the people that I've really helped prep for this. I'm
very very grateful for everyone that's made this happen, and
I'm really really excited for.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
The Lord I know.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Also, you're the first person to be on the back
of my pink tractor when I harvest my fruit. Girls.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Oh, I will be there. You can, Mamas make any
apple pies, babe, you can, County Perfect. You have been
listening to VS Voices, the official companion podcast to the
VS World Tour. My thanks to today's guest, and if
you love our show, please comment, like, and follow us
(35:47):
wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, and as always,
you can join me Aman di Decadeney on Instagram. VS
Voices is part of Victoria's Secrets, ongoing commitment to creating
positive change for women. Together, we are amplifying the voices
and perspectives of women from all backgrounds, and please remember
that sharing stories brings us closer together. Thank you for
(36:10):
listening
Welcome to VS Voices. I'm amand Decadey. Colin Jones is
a New York based model and one of the faces
of this year's VS Wings campaign. In this episode, we
talk about Colin's childhood in Utah, had day to day
experience being a trans woman in New York, and the
role spirituality has played in launching her into the world
(00:20):
of fashion. Hi, how are you good? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I am doing fabulous. Thank you so much for having
this conversation with me.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Oh my gosh, thank you, Colin Jones, thank you. Welcome
to Voices.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you for having me. Also, we have like similar
vibes going on, like the hair. I'm like, I my
professional glasses but I don't wear but I still need it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, where are you? Are you in New York?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So right now we are coming at you live from
our SOHO office in New York Downtown.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's a little new, it's a temporary change. But okay,
I'm such a different vibe all right. Well, it's so
nice to meet you, so nice to me. I'll make
a thank you so much again for having mem I'm
super excited to get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Of course, So it is exciting because you are the
first trans model to appear as part of the VS
Wings campaign. This is a big deal. What does this
moment mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Honestly, it's kind of just like what you said, I
think that this is a very historical moment, and I'm
very proud of all the people that have been a
part of this project. I'm really proud of the women
behind this project, and overall, I'm just very proud of
the changes that have been made on Victoria's Secrets Behalf
to be a lot more diverse and inclusive and just
(01:36):
celebrate all types of women from all different walks of life.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Absolutely, And what has it been like working with VS.
What's your experience been.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It sounds so funny to say, but honestly, like ever
since I was a little girl and I started making
those steps in my transition, I really did so many
times often look for Victoria's Secret as a just that
symbol of that feminine power and really just embracing yourself
and stepping into that that ownership of oneself and that
(02:07):
self power and having that fulfillment and providing it for yourself.
And I think that that's exactly what this experience was
for me. Just kind of that full circle moment, and
also just getting to witness and experience the changes that
have been made and just the newness and the freshness
and the specialness of it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, it's really nice when companies do actually do what
they say they're going to do, because a lot of
the time they actually don't. And I get asked a
lot when I do interviews about myself working with VS
about like, oh, come on, have they really made change?
It's like, yeah, they really have, actually.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely, Like the proof is in the putting, you, guys,
the proof is in the pudding exactly. We've tasted the pudding,
and the pudd is good. It's not happy, Okay, it's vanilla,
maybe chocolate.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Maybe chocolate.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh that's not my vibe. But you gotta live that truth.
You gotta leave to their.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Own celebrating all different perspectives here the putting analogy you've
heard exactly. So what part of this project are you
most excited to share?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I think I'm most excited for people to just see
the fact that Victoria's Secret has really done an amazing
job at preserving all of the amazing old traits and
just sort of the way that the vibe of Victoria's secret,
what it was. We're taking all the good parts of
what it used to be and we are filtering that
and now we're supporting it with people with amazing careers
(03:32):
and athletes. It's just we're including a lot of other
people in that fantasy that was originally established, and I
think it's just really special to be a part of that.
And I also witness other people being a part of
that for the first time, like athletes and doctors and
just icons that absolutely deserve their wings. We all deserve
to fly.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We do indeed. So let's talk a little bit about
your childhood. Because you grew up in a small town
called Spanish Folk in Utah. Can you tell me what
that was like as a trans kid? So the town
was called Spanish Fork. Let me just I'm paint a picture.
If you close your eyes, if you will, please, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Here we are. We have the fire going, we have
some crackling fire. We have a tumbleweed. We have some cows.
What are we smelling. We're smelling the cows. We're smelling
the grass. We're smelling the mountains. We're smelling the rodeos
that are happening. Two blocks away. Okay, So now now
we kind of know where I'm growing up. Okay, yes,
so let's talk about the school a little bit. I
went to a charter school. We had a uniform grow
(04:34):
you know, I rocked that uniform though.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh I'll bet you did. I can close my eyes
and imagine that. Okay, good, good, Yeah, I gotta paint
that picture. That's a very important part.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So, yeah, I went to a kind of like a
religious charter school that was really close to my house.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
When you say religious, was it Momon?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So yeah, they just had a lot of Mormon practices
that they also incorporated in the teaching system. To be
more specific, they had like seminary classes, and the boundaries
between religion and school, which I personally think is very
important to have, wasn't necessarily super implied, and so I
think it's important to remember that. And honestly, with that
(05:12):
being said, I'm very grateful that that was my experience
because I think there was a lot of changes that happened,
and obviously I experienced a lot from that and it's
made me who I am today ultimately, So I definitely
owe a lot to that experience and would not trade
that experience for the world.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Of course, what is it like now when you go back?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I would say I think in this past year of modeling,
it's been a little easier for me to travel back there.
I've had a lot of windows in between work where
it's like I'll be in London and then I'll fly back.
I didn't really necessarily have my own home base, But
since moving to New York full time, and I think
it was May beginning of May, it's been a little
bit easier for me to kind of have that route now.
So instead of traveling from Utah to London and Utah
(05:56):
and Paris, and it's easier for me to have New
York as my roots. I'm not really traveling to Utah
too often anymore, but when I do go back, I
mainly just visit family. I think culturally it's not as
progressive as I would like it to be, especially for
my safety and just my comfortability. I think that as
of right now, I'll kind of have to just be
(06:16):
with my family unfortunately, unless I choose to go a
little bit north up towards Salt Lake. But where I
come from especially it's just a little too under exposed,
if you will, And we have some Californians coming into Utah.
So I'm hoping that that will hopefully culturally wake some
things up and get some changes to be happened. And
I hope that my presence kind of had a little
bit of that catalyst to that change, and hopefully I
(06:39):
change some minds and planted some seeds and ultimately to
me that that's what really matters.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So flaunting seeds is important. It takes time. Just got
to keep planting the seeds. Absolutely, it's a process.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You got a water. I'm a farm girl, so I
know you know, we got the seeds, you got the water.
Sometimes you talk to the seeds. You gotta give it
that seat.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Give it some love. And there's a time when you know,
you plant and a time when you reap right. So
this fallow times exactly, I can get with those analogies. Absolutely,
you're down for it, Yes, I really am.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
We're in the waiting stage right now, if you will,
we're gonna we're gonna harvest later. We've planted some seeds
and we're out here doing the work right now. You know,
we're watching, we're farming, we're planting, we're we're getting that
all done.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I see that happening. So how would you describe the
female role models that you grew up around?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Oh, my goodness, I just don't know where I would
even be without them, to be completely honest, like a
lot of times our moms are our role models, or
our grandma's are our role models, or just another person
in that feminine position becomes our role model. And there's
a reason I think that for me and my experience
being a trans woman, like I really did look to
those powerful women in my life for examples, and I'm
(07:54):
so fortunate to have them be so supportive and be
so loving and throughout my whole transition, both my mom
and my grandmother and all my sisters have just been
so protective and have really made their mission to carve
out a safe space for me to really explore that femininity,
and it's so healing in my adult life. They're really
taking that time to just allow me to explore all
(08:16):
those things that kind of felt like I almost missed
out on in a way, I think as trans people,
you know, we miss out on so many key life experiences,
and so to have those people just be so mindful
of that and so consider of that and also try
to help correct that like just to me that it's
such an emotional and humbling experience.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So what was some of the things that you feel
like you missed out on? And I think it's different
for every trans person, but when you think about it,
you think about those key experiences that a woman has
growing up and how that kind of shapes her. You
think about her going to a girl's summer camp or
her going to, you know, taking a dance class. There
(09:00):
were ballet classes I missed out on that I really
wanted to do. And as trans people, you know, a
lot of times people don't really think about us missing
out on that experience. You know, we're very focused on
the present and transition, which is great. It's great to
be present, but also it is important to be very
mindful that, you know, a lot of times people from
trans experiences have missed out on a lot, and we're
just trying to live our life and kind of correct
(09:22):
that and heal as much as we can from that.
I'm so pleased you brought that up, because actually I
was unaware of that, and that's a really significant consideration
and I'm so pleased that you made me aware of that.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh my goodness. Absolutely thank you for being open to it.
That's what this conversation is about, you know, Like I
think that for me and my mission, originally I wanted
to get started and modeling so that I could kind
of bridge that gap between cisseup people and trans people
and kind of have that open dialogue that's so needed nowadays.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
It really is, It really is. How would you educated
on the trans communit as a kid? What kind of
awenness did you have?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So I had very I think just growing up Utah
in such a Mormon culture. I really was in kind
of the heart of the Mormons, very very south in Utah.
I was very under exposed to what even the LGBTQ
community stand for. I left the church when I was
in fourth grade, and so I just want to preface
this by saying, I have so much respect for the
people that are still in the religion, and I will
(10:24):
always honor and respect the people that continue to practice
that religion. However, based on my own experiences with the
trauma that it has given me and the experiences that
I've had in the religion, you almost get shut off
from the outside world in a way. You become so
protected in a way where it's almost harmful. You become
too protected, and I feel like that's what happened for
(10:45):
me in the beginning of my experience. And I also
just given my family history, my father grew up in
a very very religious family, very very Mormon, very textbook Mormon,
and so just from the time I was young, I've
had those stereotypes and those gender roles put on me
by my father around what toys I could play with,
around what clothes I should wear, around how I should talk,
(11:06):
around how I should dress, even around you know, my
interests and hobbies.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know that
your career came to you first through a psychic so crazy,
which I loved. I'm big into that. So I was like, oh,
my god, amazing. Did you grow up with, you know,
a belief in psychic practices or what happened when your
(11:32):
mom came to you and said, hey, I got a
psychic rating and here's what they told me.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
This is such a good story. I truly truly loved
telling this story. When I left the church, when my
mom originally pulled all my family members out and she
made those connections that the church wouldn't be good for
my mental health, and especially my transition at the time,
and she just selflessly made so many sacrifices for me
and the sake of our family as a unit, which
I'm so grateful for and I know that I wouldn't
be here without her. But to go back to your
(11:59):
question the psychic, when we did leave the church, my
mom absolutely still had that really beautiful kind of divine
practice held in our house. And I think the way
that my mom did it was so amazing because she
didn't really force it upon us after we left the church.
I think she really gave us that time to let
(12:20):
us kind of discover our own religious practices because you know,
I think at the end of the day, in my
personal opinion, it's really important to be open to all
different cultures and all different religions, all different walks of life.
And again, that's why I'm so proud and so happy
to be a part of this Victoria's Secret project, because
this was the time to do that. You know, this
is a project where all that energy can be put
(12:40):
to this one really detailed project and all of us
can really come together and put intent towards that, which
I think is really cool. But yeah, she always just
kind of held those practices around gratitude and karma, and
so she started to kind of get into the whole
physical world. She started to get into reiki and ernal
and yoga and just really started it better herself after
(13:03):
she kind of had her spiritual awakening when we all
removed ourselves from that religious system, and so she was
just kind of practicing that for a couple of years,
and I had exposure to that, and I was just
kind of like focusing on my own religion at the time.
And then it was her birthday and she had a
birthday present to like have a psychic reading, like a
(13:23):
session with the psychic, and she also like as a
part of that, as like a part of the package,
she got some bonus readings, and so she asked, like
me and my sisters and my grandma if we wanted
to join her amazing, and so we all went in
and we had our readings. It was so beautiful, just
truly like such a spiritual experience, Like you could just
(13:43):
kind of feel the presence in the room. And it's
not that I'm like skeptical, you know what I mean,
But like I'm the kind of girl where I'm like, okay,
if there's a ghost in the room, Like I got
to see some stuff happening, you.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Know, Yeah, I need some crew totally, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know what I mean, Like I gotta see lips
in the TV. I got mirrors cracking. But I'm open
to it. So I sat down in my session, and
I know it sounds very corny, but I always kind
of knew where I was going to be a model.
I always had this kind of intuitive and also just
obsessed with the industry since I was in like second grade,
since I really discovered the power of fashion and gender
(14:20):
and what that meant and how it could all be
tied into art and also just the LEO and me
as well. Like I loved being a part of that,
but I never really knew how to get started, especially
being like trans. I hadn't really seen many trans models
and so and just in media and everything. Like I said,
in Utah was very protected and shielded from that kind
of like whole world. And so I think that's kind
(14:42):
of the part I was looking for more clarity with
with the psychic. You know, she asked us to kind
of have intention with the session, So that was kind
of my intention. And immediately right off the bat, like
the car she was willing to do like she did Terror. Yeah,
she did Tarot. She kind of did like a mix
of everything, but the Terror reading for me is kind
of what felt most aligned. And so yeah, she was
(15:03):
just kind of shuffling the cards and it was just
so divine like it was it was almost like watching
a performance, like just artistically like there was no way
that it could have been rehearsed, but it felt so
rehearsed and so.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Special because it was so on point.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It was just so on point. It just I resonated
so deeply with it and it was exactly what I needed.
And so that's just kind of when I really opened
up myself to this whole universal experience and this whole
divine life experience and system that we have going on
your own spiritual practice right, absolutely absolutely my own religion.
That's kind of at that moment when I found my
(15:38):
own religion, when I really felt like I was spiritually connected.
So yeah, she told me like a lot of amazing things,
just kind of about the details, about like kind of
what my life would look like. But I think for me,
I was like, girl, how do I get there? Like
what am I going to do? You know, Like We're
in the middle of Utah. I don't really see many
trans models.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
How am I going to do this?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Like, let's do it. I I'm here for it, but like,
how are we going to do it?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah? What's the vehicle exactly? And she said that I
was going to get dreams.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I was going to start to get dreams, and my
dreams would ultimately tell me, you know, the steps to
make that career change. And so I was just like, girl, like,
I love you so much, thank you for the session
of a special but dreams, like right, the dreams that
I was having was like I'm flying and then I'm
eating a corn dog, and then I'm petting a zebra,
you know, like when it comes to those things, especially
with like she didn't give me any sort of time
(16:25):
frame either. She just said, you're going to get dreams.
So I didn't know if it was going to be
a dream tonight. I didn't know it was going to
be a dream next week. I didn't know if i'd
be sixty five and I'd start my modeling career. I
didn't know what was going on. And where were you
walking at the time. So I was actually working at
Taco Bell. I was a sixteen year old in high school,
just folding my taco saving up my money, just a
(16:45):
little girl dreamman of her New York modeling fantasy. But
at the time, I was like, I think it's more
realistic for me to go to LA And I had
no clue about kind of the whole markets of the
fashion industry, so I didn't even know, like LA is
kind of more not that it's not a high fashion vibe,
it just is for more that commercial that beah totally.
I didn't really know that New York was like kind
of that point that that I should have been going
(17:06):
to for the work that I wanted to do, which
was like runway and print and all that kind of stuff.
And so yeah, I was just like, I'm going to
go to California. I'm going to sell my sinibon delights,
and then I'm just going to live my dream life fantasy.
And then it was my senior year going into high school,
and I decided to stop working from Taco Bell. I
just like kind of felt like I just wanted to
give the rest of my attention to my senior year
(17:27):
kind of again, have those experiences like prom and the
thing I kind of missed out on. I really wanted
to just be as present as possible, and I was
really fortunate to get my high school counselors to cut
my year and a half so I only had to
go for half a year. Because girl, I know I
was not going to college. I was like, if there's
one thing that's happening, I don't know if modeling is
going to work out, I don't know if broad I
(17:49):
don't know what's going to work.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Out, but it is not college.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But I know where I'm not going after I'm done
with the school system. I need a hot minute where
I can just do nothing but have a cute little
margarita in my hand and some sun on my face
because I've earned it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I think that it's really important for people to remember
that we all possess this power inside of us, and
we all can create our own reality. Our thoughts are
so powerful, well, intuition, absolutely intuition, And I'm really really
grateful for my mom for really implementing that kind of mindset,
that way of thinking of just being your own advocate,
(18:23):
being your own support, or really believing in yourself. I
also feel like as a trans woman, you know, we
have to from a really young age. Whenever we start
our transition, we have to just know who we are,
you know, we have to just feel that sense of
security and feel that sense of confidence because it is
constantly challenged every single day. The minute we walk into
a bathroom, the minute we go here, the minute we're
(18:44):
on the cover of something. You know, we were constantly
met with those people that believe that we shouldn't be
there and believe that we are, you know, not who
we say we are and who you know, we show
up and be authentic version of ourselves, and I think
it's really really important to challenge that.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It's interesting, though, you're talking about being your own advocate
and you know, knowing who you are and supporting yourself,
and I was thinking about how it sounds like your
mom really did that for you, right. She gave you
that She role modeled what that looked like and what
that felt like. So you were like, oh, I know
how to do this absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think, especially going back to you know why, I said,
I was grateful for that school experience, although it came
with a lot of trauma. I saw the way that
my mom really responded to that, and I saw the
action that she took and she was just such a
warrior at really carving that space for me in the
beginning to find myself. And once I did find myself
(19:39):
through her, that's when I was really able to just
like grab to that and go, you know, once I
had that sense of inner confidence that she had given
to me, and she just did such a good job
loving me, you know, like just as a parent.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
How beautiful. Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Just I feel like trans are not gay or not
gender anything. As parents, like, it's just it's so important
to just love your child, you know, like let them
pick out the toy. You know. If a barbie makes
him happy, give him the barbie. If a football makes
her happy, give her the football. That was another thing
about my experience that was a little confusing for me
(20:16):
growing up, especially in Utah's It's also important to talk
about so many other gender stigmas that we have going on,
especially around girls and boys and those stereotypes that we
put on people growing up. It was really hard for
me in my school system to see the dress code
changes that were implemented on the females versus the biological males, if.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
You will, so, I mean the double standard, Yeah, the double.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Standard, thank you, you know, they would come with rulers
and check to see if the boy's hair was past
our jawline, and then the girls could buzz it.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
The girls could braid it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
The girls could wear breads, the girls could wear skirts, pants,
the guys could not wear skirts. The guys cannot wear
you know what I mean. So it's just it was
just those levels to it that kind of just started
to confuse my brain. And I think that's where my
mom really stepped in, and that's where she kind of
corrected everything.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That's when she came. What did she do?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
She just kind of let me know that I could
be whoever I wanted to be, and I didn't need
to think about it. There wasn't any thought that needed
to be behind my reasoning with choosing the barbie. I
could just choose the barbie because it made me. It
was me, you know, it felt like the best decision.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It was authentic.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Absolutely. She really just implemented that importance of authenticity and
allowed me to be authentic. And she would just do
an amazing job at finding any sort of window where
I could be authentic in Utah, any sort of area
where she could because outside of the home, my mom
couldn't really do much protecting for me. You know, I
was thrust into you know, surrounded by Mormons and my
(21:46):
peers and in that school system. But she was just
so amazing at finding that time in the house outside
of the house in the school. When when things started
getting really complicated with my transition, especially with the dress
code and everything, like, she was the first person, you know,
really again just remind me about the importance of the
decisions I was making and how important it is to
(22:07):
always be fully in our authenticity.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
How is it for you to move to New York,
which is not that long ago, and to have the
freedom to live more authentically?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
These are amazing questions. I like to tell people that
I am a New Yorker born in Ushah. I think
when my mom really started to teach me about authenticity
and how important and special my authenticity is, I started
to really wonder, Okay, well, if my mom's saying authenticity
is so important, then why am I not seeing it
around me? You know, why is my environment not reflecting that?
(22:40):
Why are these people around me conforming and why are
they performing? And just in this system that is so
opposite of that. And it really started to get my
mind thinking about, Okay, well where do all these authentic
people collect? And that's really when I started to get
exposure to New York. I started to really search about
these places where these authentic peceeple kind of and what's
(23:03):
the word I'm looking for? The aggregate community? Yes, just
all that, all those that word ite if you will, Yes,
all of that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes, that family of descriptive woods exactly that tree.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yes, But yeah, I think I just kind of looked
at New York at that place where it's like, you
could just be authentic. You don't have to. You can
wear what you want, you can say what you want.
If you want to go up and give someone a
high five on the street, you can do that and
no one's going to bat and eye, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And what does it mean to you though, to live authentically?
How would you describe that?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh? My goodness, Authenticity is not just physical for me.
It's not just what I'm wearing. It's not just the makeup.
It's not just how my hair looks. It's really important
for me. But authenticity is it bleeds in all different
categories of my life. I need to feel like I
am safe to speak my truth. I need to feel
(23:55):
like I am safe to explore all different hearts of myself,
especially being a young adult. You know, Like I just
had my twentieth birthday last week, and happy birthday, thank you.
I was doing a lot of thinking about kind of
just this next phase of my life and how grateful
I am to be in New York. In this next
phase of my life. I think I'm having like the
(24:16):
Friends experience, if you will, just where I get to
authentically also make mistakes, because I think that's also a
huge part of authenticity. You know, none of us are perfect,
and it's really important to remember that. And that's why
I also like again Victoria's Secret was so special to
me because they're all about that authenticity, and they're all
(24:37):
about just celebrating what it means to be a woman living,
you know, making those mistakes, figuring it out, trying, shooting
for the stars, dreaming big, owning, supporting, loving, like just
all that amazing stuff that comes with it.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I'm writing a book about authenticity at the moment, so
I love that you've brought it up so many times
because it's one of my favorite set objects. Obviously, you know,
I was so inspired when I was researching you, and
I read that you wish more people would ask you
about your day to day life as a trans woman.
(25:13):
Can you tell me what you meant by that?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Absolutely? Firstly, authenticity is such a vibe. It's truly like
there's there's a few things in this life that I
genuinely will die on my grave for when it comes
to the principles of life, and I believe that balance, authenticity, loving, supporting, happiness,
(25:37):
they just all fall under that same brand. So congratulations
for writing that book. Super excited, can't wait to read it. Yeah,
and I'm not a big reader, so that says a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But I'll do an audio book and you can listen
to that one. Maybe I'll interview you separately about that
because I think you have a lot of incredible things
to say.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Actually, oh my goodness, I am turning to read a
girl that's going to be so excited. But yes, to
answer your question, I think that when I talk about authenticity,
especially being a trans woman, it kind of just goes
back to the points I was making earlier, where I
feel like a lot of people in interviews, especially with LGBTQ,
(26:13):
they're very, very focused on the present, and they're very
very focused on the future, and it's important to do that,
and it's respectful to do that, especially with trans people.
You know, a lot of times we're not very comfortable
with talking about our past, and there's a reason for that.
You know, they're very vulnerable. And to have it be
so open and to have it be in the media
and in this world, it's very scary. It's a brave
(26:34):
thing to do. But with me and my brand, that
for me is the most important And in my work,
I always want to be that person that feels like,
you know, you can come to me and have those conversations.
And I want to be that trans woman friend that
you can go to when you're not sure about saying something,
or you're feeling a little confused about something, or I
(26:55):
definitely just want to represent and advocate as best I can.
And so when I talk about interviews and I talk
about authenticity, it's just it's really important to remember that
our experience at the end of the day, like when
the cameras do go off, when the interviews do finish
and wrap, this is not something we take off, you know,
this isn't a position of work that we're stepping out of.
(27:15):
We still are going into the restroom at the end
of the day and having those experiences with those people
that have those mentalities, and we're still questioning our safety
in those spaces at night. We're still especially in dating too.
Like I'm a twenty year old and I'm just barely
getting started in the dating world, and it's scary, you know, Like.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I'll bet what's your experience been with that.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's been kind of a mix right now, Like I
it's really really I think I'm realizing it's important for
me to have those relationships outside of the industry, outside
of dating, outside of everything, Like it's very important to
have those people in your life that really ground you
and that remind you about what's important and that really
look out for you and watch for your safety, watch
(27:59):
for well being. And so that's definitely been a huge
focus absolutely for me. It's been really important for me
to remember that, especially being a trans woman, like having
other trans women that I can really talk to and
just kind of get their advice with, like that for
me has been so important. Right now, have you found
those women I have? I've been really fortunate in my
(28:21):
experience to find those women, and I think for me,
this conversation is kind of like a beautiful spider web
when you think about it, because like this point kind
of ties back to what I was just talking about
when it comes to those authentic people in Utah. Like,
I think that a part of the reason why I
was also longing to go to New York is because
I wanted to have those trans women friends that I
could really rely on and that I could really use
(28:43):
for support in the same way that CIS people can
come to me and ask questions about trans women, you
know what I mean. Like, Yeah, to have that now,
it's almost like a really beautiful circuit that's finally connected,
you know, Like I can have these open conversations with
my trans women and I can have a deeper understanding
for them and their experience. And then being someone that
is of this young experience, I can kind of bringe
(29:04):
that gap and the modeling industry, and so yeah, I
just feel very grateful with this position that I'm at
right now, and I feel very fortunate with the relationships
I have. And again, I definitely do think it's still
very important to remember that there's still so many struggles
and so many trials that we're facing on a day
to day basis, and it's really really important that we
(29:25):
have the support of the people that want to learn
so much from us, and they want to, you know,
capitalize off of our authenticity and our juicy, sparkly energy,
but then they don't really want to support and advocate
for and it's just really important that we have those
actions and those words aligned together. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
It makes a lot of sense, it really does. What
kind of change do you hope you'll be able to
affect in I guess in the modeling industry.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I think for me, it's kind of like what
I said, I would love to be almost a bridge,
a London bridge, a luxury London bridge.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I love the bridge analogy. I use that myself a.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Lot, you know what I mean, Like I just I
really want to be someone that I just want to
be like your girl pal, you know what I mean.
I just want to be that girl that you can
go to if you're feeling confused about something or you
just want to talk about something. Like I said, I
just I want to be that bridge for the trans
women outside of the industry, and also understanding the power
(30:32):
of my influence, understanding the power of the eyes that
are watching me and the seeds that I can plant
my farm, if you will, kind of just building this
farm right now and harvesting that crop and really feeding
the people off that land. And so it's a really
exciting project. It's a very long project, but I'm very
(30:52):
committed and I'm here for the journey. And like I said,
I think it's just important to remember that I'm not
always going to get it right. You know, I can't
speak for all trans people. I can't speak for you know,
there's a very specific window of people I can speak for.
But I know I can speak for myself, and I
know I can speak for my experience, and I know
that a lot of people have similarities with my experience,
(31:14):
and I know that a lot of people can learn
from that. And I'm hoping at the end of the
day to just have a greater understanding on all ends.
And I would just like to ultimately show people that
trans women are just We're just women. You know, trans
people are just people. Gay people are just people. We
you know, people should be able to play with a
teddy bear and wear a dress and you know, have
(31:37):
a glass of wine at the end of the night.
We're all just people. Live in the life and we're
all figuring it out so well. I am very excited
to see what you grow in your farm.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I'm very very excited. I have a feeling that you
are going to be able to do exactly what you
hope to do.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, it's really it's going to be excited to watch.
And you know, before we wrap up, I wanted to
share with you something that is really special. I managed
to get a look yesterday at this incredible photograph which
we're going to pop up on the screen. Now, let's
(32:18):
have a look. Oh my goodness, there you are. Look
at that. Look at you.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Have you seen that before?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I have not. This is the first. Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
How do you feel seeing that?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I am When I was really going through those traumatic
experiences in Utah, and I was really having those moments
where I was wondering, you know, what is this all about?
What is this life experience about? Why am I here?
What is this role that I'm fulfilling? And what's my purpose?
(32:56):
Why am I in Utah? Like? Why am I the
one that's experience these things? And there was often a
vision and an image of my life and what I
would look like, what I would be doing, the people
that would surround me, where I'd be living, and I
held so strongly onto that image and I really really
(33:17):
used it as a just a glimmer of hope in
a time of darkness. And you know, that vision, and yeah,
that image that I painted for myself, also in combination
with my mother's support, really are the reason that I'm
here today. And to see that image and to see
(33:40):
the girl that I saw in my mind when I
was in fourth grade and imagining her, It's just a
very very humbling and very very just grounding and special experience.
Thank you so much for being here with me and
for just having this conversation. I'm really really grateful that
I'm able to talk with you about things I feel
(34:03):
so passionate about, especially authenticity and again with Victoria's secret.
I just this has been such an amazing experience from
starting to finish, especially in me shooting the whole thing.
I can't wait to share more about my experience and
what it was like to fly. And yeah, I just
I just want to remind people that we all have
(34:25):
it in us, you know, we we can do whatever
we want to do. There's no there's no limit for
our lives, and this is one guaranteed experience that we
have right now, and so you know, we get to
decide however we want to live that and if we
if we want to play with the toys we want
to play with, if we want to live in the
places we want to live, if we want to share
(34:45):
those experiences with the people we want to share with.
We should absolutely be allowed to do that and live
as authentically as we can. So that's that's what I
have to say about that.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
That is such a beautiful photograph. It's been such a
treat to talk with you, and I will be know
that I will be watching and sharing you on.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Thank you so much, and thank you all my little friends,
with my faithless friends outside of the screen, and just
the people that I've really helped prep for this. I'm
very very grateful for everyone that's made this happen, and
I'm really really excited for.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
The Lord I know.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Also, you're the first person to be on the back
of my pink tractor when I harvest my fruit. Girls.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Oh, I will be there. You can, Mamas make any
apple pies, babe, you can, County Perfect. You have been
listening to VS Voices, the official companion podcast to the
VS World Tour. My thanks to today's guest, and if
you love our show, please comment, like, and follow us
(35:47):
wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, and as always,
you can join me Aman di Decadeney on Instagram. VS
Voices is part of Victoria's Secrets, ongoing commitment to creating
positive change for women. Together, we are amplifying the voices
and perspectives of women from all backgrounds, and please remember
that sharing stories brings us closer together. Thank you for
(36:10):
listening
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