September 21, 2023 • 39 mins
The Lagos-based designer identifies as a storyteller—and her fashion brand functions as a part of her personal narrative. She uses Africa as a central point of inspiration, while literally and figuratively weaving spirituality and conscientiousness into her designs. Her work has been featured in London, Paris, Lagos, Durban, and Bogota fashion week and has been exhibited throughout Africa and Europe. In this episode, she discusses being a Black woman in fashion’s white space, holding privacy sacred, and the goddesses that inspire her daily.
Watch the full-length special of The Tour ’23 on Prime Video and follow @amandadecadenet and @victoriassecret to never miss a moment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to VS Voices. I'm Amanda Decadey Booboo OGIESI is
a Legos based designer and a member of this year's
Legos House. In this interview, we're talking about how she
infuses spirituality into her design process, the ritual of masquerades,
and how she believes the new currency in today's world
is privacy. Good morning from New.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
York, Good afternoon from Venice. How are you doing Venice?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, Venice, California, Venice, Italy, Venisia, Venezia. Ye. That's much
better than Venice, California. I will say. I just want
to say, for anyone listening, Booboo is sitting outside in Venice.
So if you hear buds and any nature sounds, it's
(00:48):
because you're sitting outside in beautiful prairie.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm in the garden. I'm at Venice, the Vinali Architectura,
and I was trying to go back home, but I
missed the boat and I was like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
This works great. Nature is the perfect soundtrack for the background.
So if anyone can hear birds, you're right, you're hearing birds.
So you said you first fell in love with fashion
when you were three years old. Yeah, do you remember
what that moment was?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So when I was three years old, I had a
party to go to and the outfit I wanted to
wear was this turquoise short little dress that had a
star in the middle, and I think it was in
the wash. And I'm sure with you, and you have
that one outfit you love wearing, you always want to
wear it for a particular period of time. So it
was in the wash and it wasn't dried yet. So
(01:44):
I cried so much that they made that dress dry immediately,
and that was the only dress I wanted to wear
to that party, and anyone had to run he skelter
to make sure it was perfect for me. So yeah,
I always know what I want and what I want
to wear, and if I'm not comfortable with it, I
don't think that I feel good or I would look good,
(02:05):
so I wouldn't wear it.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So I mean, you're not wrong. I'm with you. If
you don't like what you're wearing, it can change how
you feel exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, the feeling of the spirit is really important in
how you put something on yourself too, because I believe
the body in itself is the ultimate canvas of carrying
whatever feeling or expression you want to carry. So if
you're not comfortable in that, I don't see why you
should be why you should be wearing it. I mean
comfort aside. If you don't feel like you embody that
(02:36):
piece in itself, I don't think you should be wearing
because there many times I wear pieces that are uncomfortable
that watch. To me, the look is the ultimate solution
to my issues. The look comes first. How I look
essentially is how I would feel, how I feel good
about myself. So yeah, the look is always premier in
every decision I make.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
What about situations where you want the look but it
is uncomfortable to wear the look?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
The look comes first.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Okay, that's what I thought. I was just double checking,
just double checking respect for that. And I read that
your dad lived in London while your mom lived in Legos. Yeah,
so as a kid, what did you notice about the
difference between how British women dress compared to Nigerian women.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh? I mean essentially, the avery Nigerian woman is all
about being flamboyant, excessive with colors and fabrics and volumes
and everything. Essentially, I used to sit down and watch
my mom dress up every single day. Because she would
drive me to school or pick me up from school.
I would have to wait for her to get dress
because she'd be taking me to school and then going
(03:46):
to work. So it was always three hour long week
of somebody getting dressed, and I was like, why is
it taking you or her? I'm like, why did it
take you so long to get dressed when it takes
me like five minutes to get dressed. So it's always
about how she lads every thing, how the shoe and
the bag must always go with the head gear because
she was also really obsessed with head gear, same as
(04:07):
me now, and how the head gear would match the
shawl or the bag or the and the jewelry had
to all be silver. If it's all silver, it's all silver.
If it's all good, it's all good, including the neck piece.
And there was no mixture, and I think that's me too, can't.
I don't know how to mix silver or good or bronze.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It just looks wrong to you. And it's like that, Yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
If I'm wearing bronze, it has to be all bronze,
and if I'm wearing silver, it will be all silver.
So yeah, essentially it's all about looking at how she
calculated everything and being obsessed with mathematics. Also myself, it's
also about how calculation of self has to go within
on the exterior but also in the interior.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Also what does that mean? Can you expand on that
a little bit?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
For me? I think it's how you calculation you look together.
I think everyone doesn't see any mathematical effect into how
you dress, but essentially it's all about calculations. If you
don't calculat how you're going to feel, you're going to understand.
You calculat how you're going to look. Also in that day,
as I have people looking really bland, okay, really off
because there's no calculation.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So what's the calculation for you? How does that work?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So for me on a normal day, I have to
it's usually with me it's the bag has to match
the shoe. That's the first thing. In terms of colors,
and depending on what hat I'm wearing, the hat also
has to match with the outfits that I'm wearing. So
it's about sitting on the colors, the shapes, the volumes,
seeing how I can add something here, add something there,
(05:40):
or take away your minus or multiply. So I think
that's essentially how I get dressed every day, and outside
of it being me putting myself first with the outfit,
I also see want to see how I can also
inspire and make somebody else's day happy with how they
see me.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Do you do this automatically? Do you do these calculations automatically?
I bet you're really fast at it now, right, Yeah? Yeah, Yeah,
that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Wow, that's like your language, Yes, exactly, language of the body,
language of material. Yeah, essentially I do speak with my
clothing because growing up I was really shy, so speaking
with what I was wearing was essentially how I speak
to people.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
My first statement with my outfit communicate. That was your
tool for communicating. Yeah, wow, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You said that the average Nigerian family is very far
from the ideology of what is perfect in the Western world.
Can you tell me what you meant by that.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's a very different scenario when you have brothers or
sisters that don't essentially have to come from the same
mother father or finding out you have brothers and sisters
as opposed to the idea of having the perfect new
to their family. You know, the mother and father staying
to be they're raising children in the same home. It's
a very different scenario in Nigeria coming from West Africa. Essentially,
(07:07):
I think the idea of community, of figuring out how
essentially different people might be part of your family and
you may never know them or have never met them,
is something that you have to also come to terms
with usually, And I think that's the difference. It's not
about creating this perfect scenario. It's all about incorporating how
different people essentially come together and create this community and family.
(07:32):
And I think to me, that's essentially different from what
the Western i geology of what family is. Growing up
in school, they would teach us about nuclear families, polygamous families,
and I guess in the communities or traditions that I
come from the idea of I wouldn't say polygamy, but
the idea of I've being multiple children is a thing
(07:54):
that comes along with everything else in Africa.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Al So, do you mean like a father that has
multiple children from multiple different moms?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah? Is that?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Is that what happened with you?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Essentially? My dad had me with my mom, and then
I have brothers also from my brother's his mom, and
then my mom also has a my older sister who's
not from my dad to so as a dysfunctional cute. Two.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Well, it's what we would call a blended family.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Exactly, a dysfunctional blended family.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I know. I know those very well.
So let's talk about when you left Legos and you
attended design school in Paris. You were the only black
student in your class, and you I've heard you say
that it was a defining moment for you when your
(08:48):
teacher asked you to do a project about Africa, but
not Egypt or Morocco, just Black Africa. And why was
this such a pivotal moment for you?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Because I was a bit confused. I never ever encountered
anyone telling me there was a difference. I mean, growing
up in Africa and going to school also in another
African country, which was Ghana, we never had this discussion.
So coming out of Africa and then going into school
in Europe and someone is telling me, oh, you're not
(09:22):
this is not Egypt, it is not Africa, I was like, huh,
but it's on the African continent. So it was a
bit confusing for me, and it was the first time
I had to come to terms with how the outside
world of Africa perceives us as Africans, but also how
even people who exist within the continent of Africa believe
(09:43):
that they are not Africans, which I find so absurd
because I mean, if you are in the African continent,
doesn't that make you in Africa?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I mean, it's really great, It's ridiculous. It's made me
understand that people do have different perspectives on themselves as Africans,
but also people who are not even Africans have a
different perspective also, and it made me want to also
study and figure out what is the connecting factor between
(10:15):
all these things, so I can make people understand that
essentially they were wrong and the idea of that being
right made absolutely no sense.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well to that point, you've got four officers right in Legos, Acra,
Dakar and Nairobi. Yeah, can you tell me why you've
set your business.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Up that way? It's not really officers, it's studio spaces
and artisans that I work with. I see, my main
studio space is in Legos, and it's actually even more
than that. It's cou Divoir, which is a vision as
I also work in Togo I also work in Vener Republic,
and I've also worked in Congo, also in Tanzania. So
(10:59):
it's all about researching within these different spaces, realising with
different artisms and craftsmen and weavers and bronze makers and
wood specialists. It's a whole lot of different people. Every
single year the list gets bigger and bigger because it's
a continuous research in terms of mapping out these different
(11:19):
creativesm I call them magicians who I create magic with,
and essentially I really want to open my mind and
open the world's mind to different perspectives of what actual
fashion is or what creating is. And for me, it's
about going somewhere, immersing myself within this period of time
or continuity, going back there over and over again, and
(11:42):
then figuring out how to work with these people or
what to create with them to also open up their
mind to and to open up a newer perspective of
what they're creating, and essentially creating with them a newer
world of imagination. Like what we discussed, clothing is a
vehicle of communications. I really want to use that as
a moment to communicate with them in terms of okay,
(12:04):
if I'm weaving with weavers and Senegal weaving Manjak, and
they've never incorporated plastic into that. About teaching them how
to incorporate the idea of waste materials into that. We've
essentially if I'm creating bronze materials in Kodivo garnits about
creating something that they've never created, let's say a bag
(12:25):
or a dress also from bronze. And I love the
idea of just changing people's ideologies of what they've been
creating through time constantly, or you know, through history or
through these ancient techniques, and also reconfigurating those ideas to
sort of create this cultural preservative system which they can
now create newer ideas but also also preserve these techniques
(12:49):
and these beautiful additions.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, exactly, that's beautiful. How do you select the artisans
that you work with?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Wow? Usually talying it. It sounds crazy, but it's purely
through energy.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Oh no, that doesn't sound crazy to me. If you
knew me better, you'd know that that makes complete sense.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
My mom calls me a little weirch because she says
I observe people too much, and I always know when
people are going to be disappointing. Or not. So I
think for me, I always know when people have the
heart of creating what I want them to create. But
also the patients also a lot of times when I'm
in these different spaces, obviously they're not going to be
speaking English. And I don't obviously know all the languages
(13:33):
in the African continent. I only speak four out of
all the thousands of languages that exist. It's not always
us speaking the same language all the time. So it's
also about engaging with spirit and having this connectivity with them.
Essentially engaging with these people and saying, Okay, this person
seems like someone that has an amazing spirit, and a
(13:54):
lot of the times they actually do not disappoint me, thankfully.
And a lot of people say, oh, my artisans, I
love with me, and I say, because I'm in love
with them. Also, these are people that I create with.
Essentially I have to love them and they have to
love me. It's a I guess it's a cross cultural,
interactive system of exchange. So there has to be that
(14:16):
element of love because I don't think a lot of
people that work with other people don't essentially put that
little spice of affection into the people that actually create
with them because it's all about this hierarchy system. But
I try to remove those borders and I want to
have that connection with the person so they understand what
I want to create, so that whenever they're creating to
(14:39):
they understand where I'm coming from, so that they can
also be able to produce something that essentially I would
be able to produce.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Alston, how do you communicate that when you're speaking a
language or you don't speak the same language. How do
you do that?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So I either draw or I either just tell them
that I would show it to So most times I
sit in their position and I have to show them
how this is created. For example, we just created this
bronze brass piece for Victorious Secret for this collection, and
it was a long, tedious effect of movement in terms
(15:19):
of creating in all different spaces and having to finalize everything.
But essentially he had never created a bronze dress. It's
usually jury he was creating. So me coming to him
and saying this is what I want, he was like, okay,
person is mad. But then when I showed him the possibility,
I've never done it before. But all these come to
(15:41):
me in dreams and visions, so essentially I'm able to
now transfer those ideas from the spirit world into this
physical world, and then I'm able to also thankfully direct
him in certain ways, showing him, Okay, this is how
we're going to make the connections with this amount of
width of brass. Why and then we connect them, make
(16:02):
thousands of connections and circles cut them. We have to
create the cut out the shapes and then make further
circulations in the factual brass shapes so that its density
is less for the body which it's going to be
put on, so that it's not too heavy for the
person carrying it. Also, same thing with the glass piece
we had to create. I went to work with some
(16:22):
glass blowers in the middle of nowhere in Naiubi and
they were like, what are you saying? Nobody wears glass
as interests And it's the same process or in fact,
they had to become and be patient with them and
say it's possible. But even though I've never done it before,
I always had to tell them as possible. But then
that's the idea. I think it's always believing what is possible.
(16:43):
I think whatever it is that we are envisioning now,
no one thought visical could be possible, Like that's three
years ago. So I guess it's just the idea of
bringing things to life.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And you said that your designs come from visions.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, I have. I usually have. It sounds crazy, Yeah,
I enjoy my dreams and my visions. Like if I
go to a gallery, something can just come to me
in my head. And essentially that's to me the idea
of changing something from what it usually is, or something
randomly can just come to me when I'm sleeping and
then I wake up and then I have to write
(17:21):
it down.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah I was going to say, you have to write
it down. I'm sure right, Yes, Yes, You've been talking
quite a lot about spirituality, and I want to talk
to you about your masks. Can you talk a little
bit about the role that masquerade culture played in your
childhood and what role the masks play in your everyday
(17:45):
life today.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Okay, so growing up as a child, as a female child,
essentially we weren't allowed to see masquerades. It's usually supposed
to be only one by men, and also most of
the times in most cultures only seen also by men.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
So maybe you could explain what masquerades are so that
people know, oh.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I mean everyone should know what a masquerade is, I guess. Traditionally,
masquerades are the embodiment of spirits. In most cultures, they
used to celebrate coronation or also brought out in times
of death, also in order to lead the spirit into
the other world peacefully and gracefully. But also in other
(18:27):
times it's also used as a time for harvesting, for
a time of seasonal change. It could be usedful mostly
just the act of celebration, whether it's in life or
death too. I think even in the form of harvesting,
when things are growing out from the ground, that's actual
life rebirth or new birth of crops, a new market day.
(18:50):
So all that is the use of the masquerade. And
in my work I usually use it to also celebrate
the announcement or the reveal of my performance of a
new project, of a new process. And I always say
it's a moving ritual performance which happens usually in an
installation space which I have to build. But it's usually
(19:11):
something that I think, it's ceremonial and it's a ritual
process that I think it's something that I always have
to be doing at least twice a year it's also
I guess, like I said, in form of a rebirth
or birth of a new idea which I've come up with.
So I love using the idea of a masquerade to
celebrate that, I think most importantly, as you can see,
(19:34):
I'm very shy, so I usually where the sunglasses and
the hat. So the idea of anonymity or hiding yourself,
I guess, guarding yourself more like from the outside world
is the idea of what essentially I love about masquerades
because in other times they were used as a form
of protection in terms of moving from one city to
(19:57):
another city. So the masquerades would come out at night
and sort of stare everyone in their homes, and so
everyone is staying homes, and then people will be able
to migrate to within these massive masquerade builds or garments
and be able to sort of securely move from one
place to another in times of wars or trouble. I
(20:18):
love the idea of mastering because of how you can
use them for multiple things, and how they sort of
create different stories through different traditions and different cultures and
different tribes. But I think I enjoyed the materiality that
goes into making them, and how different materials can be
used into making some things that nobody can even explain
what they mean.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Also, and also though it's very different to Western culture,
which is about revealing everything people live streaming their bus,
you know, on social media, it's completely the opposite.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I mean, I am challenged by that concept too. I
feel like that's that's too much of a.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Reveal for me.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
But it's really directly in opposition to that concept, right
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I believe the new currency is privacy. I think the
idea of knowing as little as possible is still very
unique to our existence as human beings, because essentially we
don't know everything. So I think the idea of what
is unknown to is also still very unique in creativity,
as you don't know what is within the spirit, but
don't you just know what the spirit is embodying. In
(21:26):
terms of the way they dance, the way they move.
Masquerads can represent different gods in terms of the God
of space and time, the God of war, the God
of water and abundance. So I think it's amazing how
these different masquerads essentially come together, and I mean in
different parts of the continent of Africa have different celebrations
(21:48):
at festivals to also celebrate this ancient culture, but also
finding a way to preserve these cultures through time is
essentially what my main research is about. I enjoy travel,
being through different countries and trying to figure out, okay,
this is what happens here at this time, and understanding
how these communities thoroughly enjoy these things. I mean, they
(22:12):
don't understand the half of what is going on, but
they know, Okay, this is happening at this time every
single year, and we have to be part of it.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
You know. We talk a lot about I mean, at
least I deal with my friends about how a simpler
life can allow space for a more spiritual life. Have
you observed that with living and spending time with the
different artisans in different communities and then also living in,
you know, a very capitalistic culture.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yes, I mean, essentially that's a major part of what
my work is antich capitalism, because I believe everyone's trying
to be so sustainable and circular. But if you were
living a much more simpular life, you wouldn't be having
these difficulties in which we're having with essentially a lot
with plastic and other withst materials in terms of recycled
(23:04):
clothing and everything. If we lived in a much more
simpler life, we would be able to, I guess, be
more mindful with whatever it is that's happening around us
and have lesser issues. But I think the human being
is the human being, and the human being enjoys chaos.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And isn't that true? Yeah, that really is. So I
want to talk a bit about your twenty twenty collection
because it was called Chasing Evil. Yes, why that name?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So that was one of my favorite collections. Act can
thank you for bringing that. I made that just before
COVID was announced in terms of the lockdown, was in
Nairubi and we had to finish making everything and I
had to run back to Nigeria because I was like,
(23:57):
if I had to die anywhere and it's the end
of the world with okay, I might as well die
where I was born, and that's obviously where my mom
and my son are. So I was like, okay, let
me just run back home. But before doing that, I
was like, okay, I had researched. The year before, we
had spent about six or four months in Congo and
I was working with this community of survivors from the war,
(24:20):
and it's a woman's female community. It's a called City
of Joy, and we had to rehabilitate their minds. They
were all raped victims from the war, so we had
to use fashion to bring back their stability or their
mind back to a certain state. And one of the
things I said to them in that series was inspired
by this spiritual figurine which I discovered in Congress called
(24:43):
and Conde Kissy, and you put it in front of
your house when you're protecting yourself from evil, so essentially
it chases evil away. So what I told them is
that I want you to dress in a way that
no man or any entity would be so afraid to
even come here you're tach you or even try to
rape you, that you would have to be dressing like royalty,
(25:04):
or be dressing in such a way that nobody would
ever want to even think of harming you or even
trying to do anything to you. So I guess the
idea of chasing evil came from that figuring that I
discovered in Congo, and I wanted to use that idea
to also translate into the fabric. So that's where we
created this fabric for the first time where we interwove raffia,
(25:25):
which I sourced in Congo also, and then cotton organic
cotton which I sawced in Tanzania, and then we wove
everything in Kenya. And the idea when we created the
weaf was to have the raffia sticking out like spikes
on a the animal calls a porcupine that has the
(25:46):
best spikes, So we wore when we wove the raffia,
we cut it up in a way after so that
emid this like spiky effect on the fabric, and that
was the idea for chasing evil. The fact that also
it's inspired by the whole time I spent in Congo,
because I believe there's only one country to me in
Africa that literally is the twin country to Nigeria, and
(26:10):
I think that is Congo definitely, and it's also one
of the strongest countries I believe in the world, essentially
being the country that can also super sourced and super
like energize the whole continent with all the natural resources
and all the amazing things that come out of that place.
And it reminds me essentially of my country to Nigeria.
(26:32):
Everything we have, even this microphone and this laptop, all
the elements that go into this all come from Congo.
So I believe for me, it's the idea of protecting self,
protecting one spirit and essentially, what are we all afraid of?
It's evil? So chasing evil for me is, you know,
outside of just being afraid of evil, I want to
(26:52):
confront evil head on. I want to go and look
for the evil and chase the evil as opposed to
having it come to me and chasing me.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I would want to chase e being proactive. Yes, How
did the women respond to you said that you were
using fashion to help their minds, to bring their minds back?
How did that work?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
It went very very well. Ry not to cry, but yeah,
it was one of the most emotional projects I've ever
worked on because I had to put myself in their position.
I had to put myself in their stories. I had
to put myself in how I exist also as a woman,
also in Africa and a highly patriarchal society, and seeing
(27:36):
how they also feel with themselves being armed in that process,
and how the idea of clothing in itself being that
veicle of communication is also a source of protection. The
reason why we wear clothes every day is to also
protect ourselves from anything from harm. So for me, it
was about teaching them how to sort of calculate how
(27:58):
to use clothing, how to wear clothing, but also how
to make clothing that would also protect yourself, protect to being,
protect your soul, and protect your stroit also. So it
was a very emotional project for me. I enjoyed every moment.
I enjoyed sharing their stories, I enjoyed seeing how they've
also reformed with life, and I enjoyed most of all
(28:20):
seeing their reaction to the pieces we made for them.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it sounds like it was a powerful experience for
you and for the women that you worked with. Yeah,
and testament to the fact that also fashion, which people
sometimes you know, don't dismiss as being yeah, just fashion. Yeah,
there's so much more that can be done and the
(28:46):
power of fashion.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, exactly. A lot of my work deals with removing
borders and has this ideology borderless constructs and concepts. I
believe a lot of the situations we go through have
been through different concepts which have to do with different
things socio political or religion, you know, race. So I
guess removing all these things out of all these situations
(29:11):
is essentially what my work essentially wants to focus on.
And in this situation or in whatever it is that
I'm creating with fashion, I want people to have a
freer mind of reasoning, a freer approach to how to
wear pieces or how to relate to fashion, express themselves exactly,
(29:32):
but also how to also see other people who are
expressing themselves and not judge them.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, allow a larger space for everybody express themselves in
all different ways.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah. You go to other countries and you wear a
pair of shorts and everyone is looking at you sideways,
or you wear something that sees through your mession, everyone
is that cover up. You go to certain places and
you're covered up and everyone So you like, why is
this think around? So? I think a lot of us
(30:06):
are hyperenormalized to certain ideas or on fashion, based on
how we've been hyperenormalized to be, to be seen or
to be fashionable. So it's about just allowing everybody to be.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
And maybe exposing people to you know, for me at least,
you know, I like anything that challenges people's concept of
normal exactly, you know, and allows people to expand what
is acceptable for them, and I think you're also talking
about that as well.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It sounds like you're always kind of researching different yes,
concepts and ideas and what are you focused on at
the moment. What's inspiring you at the moment?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Oh, architecture, That's why I'm here in the middle of
knowing this park in Venice.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What kind of architecture are you looking at?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
The architecture of the body and space through time? I
believe the body exists within different spaces, so I focused
on the body for the last ten years. So I
want to move into space now and see how the
body reacts to space and how the space also reacts
to the body, So essentially seeing the space as the
(31:25):
spirits too, as well as the body as spirit. So
the spirit also is space also, I guess in explaining
that further is how you may enter space and you
may have this certain aura or energy come over you.
And that's what happens to me. Most times when you
enter space, you're like, oh, no, I'm going and then
(31:46):
when you enter another space, you're like, wow, what is
So I think it's about creating more of those spaces
that transcend your energy and your spirit in a very
mindful manner, but also using actract materials that you essentially
would never find within the space too.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, you talked about working with the female form, and
that brings me to VS and working with them. So
VS asked you to create a collection inspired by the
female form, and what did you visualize when you heard
that brief?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
So I was I think since last year, two years ago,
I started my research into ancient European ed mythology. So
it's a continuous process in which I was researching. And
at the time when they messaged me, I was literally
at a voodoo festival in.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
The middle of amazing invidinary Republic, and I was like, Yeah, essentially,
it's whatever as I'm creating for on this commission, it's
it's going to have to do with spirituality, and essentially
you want to accelerate or separate the field form.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And I think there's no other way to do that
more than talking about gods and goddesses, because essentially those
are the main essential processes in spirituality that accelerate the
female form. In different archaetypes of the female or the
female form, how the female gets angry, how the female
can transcend through space and time, how the female can
(33:24):
be a bondant, how the female is fertile, how the
female is just this exceptional form of being. So I'm
thankfully female. So I was like, wow, Essentially, I want
to break down these archaetypes into ten different spaces and
into ten different forms, and into ten different colors and
(33:47):
also ten different materials. So it was about creating a
collection around all the materials that I've worked with previously,
and also transforming those materials in a new respect of
the idea in connection to the different gods and goddesses
that we were referring to.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Does each outfit represent a different goddess.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, a different deity. So each deity was represented by
a different color and a different material also, so we
used brass and bronze for the goddess of all female goddesses,
which is Ymoja. We used glass or locals the goddess
of the ocean or deity of the ocean, because it
(34:31):
could also be in the idea of urban drymatology, the
construct of male female does not also exist, so it's
also about removing that construct, was still also accelerating the
female format at the same time. We used red and
we represented that with Everything was made from plastic, handmade beads,
(34:53):
and we had to connect each of them also using plastic.
It's really amazing. A lot of the materials we create
it was from scratch. We made all our materials from scratch.
There was one piece we made we had to wait
for the worms we used to eerie silk worms. We
had to wait for the worms to create the cocoons
and wow, we had to now spin the silk, then
(35:17):
diet and then weaved. So everything essentially that we made
was all made from scratch and all made by hand.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
My gosh, thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Wow. What do you hope will be the impact from
creating this collection?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Everyone asked me that you know, and I never know
the answer to that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Because because you're not making it for that.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I mean, everyone makes things to hope we have a
good impact. I was just creating for myself, to be honest,
I was just creating. I love experimenting, so it was
just a new form of me experimenting. And I do
hope the world sees it and understands and values it
(36:06):
in form of this art form. I think fashion is
seen as an art form from my perspective, and I
think the impact that I hope people will get from
that is to see and appreciate what I've created not
only as fashion, but much more as an art for
the fame of from what essentially the most important is
understanding the stories behind each and every piece that I created.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
M what surprised you about this process of working with
VS to create this collection?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
What surprised me? Yeah, what surprised me is I surprised
myself by the amount of time I used to be
able to create all these hand processes. I realized that
I actually work quite well under pressure. So yeah, I
surprised myself by being able to meet up with all
(36:59):
the deadline because usually I don't have anyone telling me, oh,
we have a deadline for this, this, and that. I
usually always work on accorring to my own deadlines. I
get commissioned by museums and galleries, but they always work
with my own deadline. But working in this case with
VS and they're like, okay, we have to shoot on
this day and this then I'm like okay, But all
(37:21):
my processes take, like the worm eight months to create.
There's another piece that we were making from a tree.
We scrape the body of the tree, we have to
beat it. Stretched so could and water for about six months,
then diet in clay. I was like, okay, okay, guys,
you guys need need to understand how I have to
(37:44):
convince all my own artisans that I'm not crazy in
this timeframe. And thankfully everyone worked according to this time schedule.
So I think a lot of my work has to
do with space and time. So in this timeframe, I
think I surprised myself. I was able to create in
the space for the body according to the time. Boo boo.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. I'm
so curious to actually see what you've designed. Sounds extraordinary
and thank you for the work you do, and thank
you for taking the time today to share some of
your journey with us.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me on here.
I enjoyed speaking with you you too.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thank you so much. You have been listening to VS Voices,
the official companion podcast to the VS World Tour. My
thanks to today's guest and if you love our show,
please comment, like, and follow us wherever you listen to
your favorite podcasts, and as always, you can join me
amand Decademy on Instagram. VS. Voices is part of Victoria's Secrets,
(38:55):
ongoing commitment to creating positive change for women. Together, we
are amplifying the voices and perspectives of women from all backgrounds,
and please remember that sharing stories brings us closer together.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome to VS Voices. I'm Amanda Decadey Booboo OGIESI is
a Legos based designer and a member of this year's
Legos House. In this interview, we're talking about how she
infuses spirituality into her design process, the ritual of masquerades,
and how she believes the new currency in today's world
is privacy. Good morning from New.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
York, Good afternoon from Venice. How are you doing Venice?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, Venice, California, Venice, Italy, Venisia, Venezia. Ye. That's much
better than Venice, California. I will say. I just want
to say, for anyone listening, Booboo is sitting outside in Venice.
So if you hear buds and any nature sounds, it's
(00:48):
because you're sitting outside in beautiful prairie.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm in the garden. I'm at Venice, the Vinali Architectura,
and I was trying to go back home, but I
missed the boat and I was like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
This works great. Nature is the perfect soundtrack for the background.
So if anyone can hear birds, you're right, you're hearing birds.
So you said you first fell in love with fashion
when you were three years old. Yeah, do you remember
what that moment was?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So when I was three years old, I had a
party to go to and the outfit I wanted to
wear was this turquoise short little dress that had a
star in the middle, and I think it was in
the wash. And I'm sure with you, and you have
that one outfit you love wearing, you always want to
wear it for a particular period of time. So it
was in the wash and it wasn't dried yet. So
(01:44):
I cried so much that they made that dress dry immediately,
and that was the only dress I wanted to wear
to that party, and anyone had to run he skelter
to make sure it was perfect for me. So yeah,
I always know what I want and what I want
to wear, and if I'm not comfortable with it, I
don't think that I feel good or I would look good,
(02:05):
so I wouldn't wear it.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So I mean, you're not wrong. I'm with you. If
you don't like what you're wearing, it can change how
you feel exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, the feeling of the spirit is really important in
how you put something on yourself too, because I believe
the body in itself is the ultimate canvas of carrying
whatever feeling or expression you want to carry. So if
you're not comfortable in that, I don't see why you
should be why you should be wearing it. I mean
comfort aside. If you don't feel like you embody that
(02:36):
piece in itself, I don't think you should be wearing
because there many times I wear pieces that are uncomfortable
that watch. To me, the look is the ultimate solution
to my issues. The look comes first. How I look
essentially is how I would feel, how I feel good
about myself. So yeah, the look is always premier in
every decision I make.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
What about situations where you want the look but it
is uncomfortable to wear the look?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
The look comes first.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Okay, that's what I thought. I was just double checking,
just double checking respect for that. And I read that
your dad lived in London while your mom lived in Legos. Yeah,
so as a kid, what did you notice about the
difference between how British women dress compared to Nigerian women.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh? I mean essentially, the avery Nigerian woman is all
about being flamboyant, excessive with colors and fabrics and volumes
and everything. Essentially, I used to sit down and watch
my mom dress up every single day. Because she would
drive me to school or pick me up from school.
I would have to wait for her to get dress
because she'd be taking me to school and then going
(03:46):
to work. So it was always three hour long week
of somebody getting dressed, and I was like, why is
it taking you or her? I'm like, why did it
take you so long to get dressed when it takes
me like five minutes to get dressed. So it's always
about how she lads every thing, how the shoe and
the bag must always go with the head gear because
she was also really obsessed with head gear, same as
(04:07):
me now, and how the head gear would match the
shawl or the bag or the and the jewelry had
to all be silver. If it's all silver, it's all silver.
If it's all good, it's all good, including the neck piece.
And there was no mixture, and I think that's me too, can't.
I don't know how to mix silver or good or bronze.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It just looks wrong to you. And it's like that, Yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
If I'm wearing bronze, it has to be all bronze,
and if I'm wearing silver, it will be all silver.
So yeah, essentially it's all about looking at how she
calculated everything and being obsessed with mathematics. Also myself, it's
also about how calculation of self has to go within
on the exterior but also in the interior.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Also what does that mean? Can you expand on that
a little bit?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
For me? I think it's how you calculation you look together.
I think everyone doesn't see any mathematical effect into how
you dress, but essentially it's all about calculations. If you
don't calculat how you're going to feel, you're going to understand.
You calculat how you're going to look. Also in that day,
as I have people looking really bland, okay, really off
because there's no calculation.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So what's the calculation for you? How does that work?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So for me on a normal day, I have to
it's usually with me it's the bag has to match
the shoe. That's the first thing. In terms of colors,
and depending on what hat I'm wearing, the hat also
has to match with the outfits that I'm wearing. So
it's about sitting on the colors, the shapes, the volumes,
seeing how I can add something here, add something there,
(05:40):
or take away your minus or multiply. So I think
that's essentially how I get dressed every day, and outside
of it being me putting myself first with the outfit,
I also see want to see how I can also
inspire and make somebody else's day happy with how they
see me.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Do you do this automatically? Do you do these calculations automatically?
I bet you're really fast at it now, right, Yeah? Yeah, Yeah,
that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Wow, that's like your language, Yes, exactly, language of the body,
language of material. Yeah, essentially I do speak with my
clothing because growing up I was really shy, so speaking
with what I was wearing was essentially how I speak
to people.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
My first statement with my outfit communicate. That was your
tool for communicating. Yeah, wow, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You said that the average Nigerian family is very far
from the ideology of what is perfect in the Western world.
Can you tell me what you meant by that.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's a very different scenario when you have brothers or
sisters that don't essentially have to come from the same
mother father or finding out you have brothers and sisters
as opposed to the idea of having the perfect new
to their family. You know, the mother and father staying
to be they're raising children in the same home. It's
a very different scenario in Nigeria coming from West Africa. Essentially,
(07:07):
I think the idea of community, of figuring out how
essentially different people might be part of your family and
you may never know them or have never met them,
is something that you have to also come to terms
with usually, And I think that's the difference. It's not
about creating this perfect scenario. It's all about incorporating how
different people essentially come together and create this community and family.
(07:32):
And I think to me, that's essentially different from what
the Western i geology of what family is. Growing up
in school, they would teach us about nuclear families, polygamous families,
and I guess in the communities or traditions that I
come from the idea of I wouldn't say polygamy, but
the idea of I've being multiple children is a thing
(07:54):
that comes along with everything else in Africa.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Al So, do you mean like a father that has
multiple children from multiple different moms?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah? Is that?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Is that what happened with you?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Essentially? My dad had me with my mom, and then
I have brothers also from my brother's his mom, and
then my mom also has a my older sister who's
not from my dad to so as a dysfunctional cute. Two.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Well, it's what we would call a blended family.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Exactly, a dysfunctional blended family.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I know. I know those very well.
So let's talk about when you left Legos and you
attended design school in Paris. You were the only black
student in your class, and you I've heard you say
that it was a defining moment for you when your
(08:48):
teacher asked you to do a project about Africa, but
not Egypt or Morocco, just Black Africa. And why was
this such a pivotal moment for you?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Because I was a bit confused. I never ever encountered
anyone telling me there was a difference. I mean, growing
up in Africa and going to school also in another
African country, which was Ghana, we never had this discussion.
So coming out of Africa and then going into school
in Europe and someone is telling me, oh, you're not
(09:22):
this is not Egypt, it is not Africa, I was like, huh,
but it's on the African continent. So it was a
bit confusing for me, and it was the first time
I had to come to terms with how the outside
world of Africa perceives us as Africans, but also how
even people who exist within the continent of Africa believe
(09:43):
that they are not Africans, which I find so absurd
because I mean, if you are in the African continent,
doesn't that make you in Africa?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I mean, it's really great, It's ridiculous. It's made me
understand that people do have different perspectives on themselves as Africans,
but also people who are not even Africans have a
different perspective also, and it made me want to also
study and figure out what is the connecting factor between
(10:15):
all these things, so I can make people understand that
essentially they were wrong and the idea of that being
right made absolutely no sense.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well to that point, you've got four officers right in Legos, Acra,
Dakar and Nairobi. Yeah, can you tell me why you've
set your business.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Up that way? It's not really officers, it's studio spaces
and artisans that I work with. I see, my main
studio space is in Legos, and it's actually even more
than that. It's cou Divoir, which is a vision as
I also work in Togo I also work in Vener Republic,
and I've also worked in Congo, also in Tanzania. So
(10:59):
it's all about researching within these different spaces, realising with
different artisms and craftsmen and weavers and bronze makers and
wood specialists. It's a whole lot of different people. Every
single year the list gets bigger and bigger because it's
a continuous research in terms of mapping out these different
(11:19):
creativesm I call them magicians who I create magic with,
and essentially I really want to open my mind and
open the world's mind to different perspectives of what actual
fashion is or what creating is. And for me, it's
about going somewhere, immersing myself within this period of time
or continuity, going back there over and over again, and
(11:42):
then figuring out how to work with these people or
what to create with them to also open up their
mind to and to open up a newer perspective of
what they're creating, and essentially creating with them a newer
world of imagination. Like what we discussed, clothing is a
vehicle of communications. I really want to use that as
a moment to communicate with them in terms of okay,
(12:04):
if I'm weaving with weavers and Senegal weaving Manjak, and
they've never incorporated plastic into that. About teaching them how
to incorporate the idea of waste materials into that. We've
essentially if I'm creating bronze materials in Kodivo garnits about
creating something that they've never created, let's say a bag
(12:25):
or a dress also from bronze. And I love the
idea of just changing people's ideologies of what they've been
creating through time constantly, or you know, through history or
through these ancient techniques, and also reconfigurating those ideas to
sort of create this cultural preservative system which they can
now create newer ideas but also also preserve these techniques
(12:49):
and these beautiful additions.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, exactly, that's beautiful. How do you select the artisans
that you work with?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Wow? Usually talying it. It sounds crazy, but it's purely
through energy.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Oh no, that doesn't sound crazy to me. If you
knew me better, you'd know that that makes complete sense.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
My mom calls me a little weirch because she says
I observe people too much, and I always know when
people are going to be disappointing. Or not. So I
think for me, I always know when people have the
heart of creating what I want them to create. But
also the patients also a lot of times when I'm
in these different spaces, obviously they're not going to be
speaking English. And I don't obviously know all the languages
(13:33):
in the African continent. I only speak four out of
all the thousands of languages that exist. It's not always
us speaking the same language all the time. So it's
also about engaging with spirit and having this connectivity with them.
Essentially engaging with these people and saying, Okay, this person
seems like someone that has an amazing spirit, and a
(13:54):
lot of the times they actually do not disappoint me, thankfully.
And a lot of people say, oh, my artisans, I
love with me, and I say, because I'm in love
with them. Also, these are people that I create with.
Essentially I have to love them and they have to
love me. It's a I guess it's a cross cultural,
interactive system of exchange. So there has to be that
(14:16):
element of love because I don't think a lot of
people that work with other people don't essentially put that
little spice of affection into the people that actually create
with them because it's all about this hierarchy system. But
I try to remove those borders and I want to
have that connection with the person so they understand what
I want to create, so that whenever they're creating to
(14:39):
they understand where I'm coming from, so that they can
also be able to produce something that essentially I would
be able to produce.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Alston, how do you communicate that when you're speaking a
language or you don't speak the same language. How do
you do that?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So I either draw or I either just tell them
that I would show it to So most times I
sit in their position and I have to show them
how this is created. For example, we just created this
bronze brass piece for Victorious Secret for this collection, and
it was a long, tedious effect of movement in terms
(15:19):
of creating in all different spaces and having to finalize everything.
But essentially he had never created a bronze dress. It's
usually jury he was creating. So me coming to him
and saying this is what I want, he was like, okay,
person is mad. But then when I showed him the possibility,
I've never done it before. But all these come to
(15:41):
me in dreams and visions, so essentially I'm able to
now transfer those ideas from the spirit world into this
physical world, and then I'm able to also thankfully direct
him in certain ways, showing him, Okay, this is how
we're going to make the connections with this amount of
width of brass. Why and then we connect them, make
(16:02):
thousands of connections and circles cut them. We have to
create the cut out the shapes and then make further
circulations in the factual brass shapes so that its density
is less for the body which it's going to be
put on, so that it's not too heavy for the
person carrying it. Also, same thing with the glass piece
we had to create. I went to work with some
(16:22):
glass blowers in the middle of nowhere in Naiubi and
they were like, what are you saying? Nobody wears glass
as interests And it's the same process or in fact,
they had to become and be patient with them and
say it's possible. But even though I've never done it before,
I always had to tell them as possible. But then
that's the idea. I think it's always believing what is possible.
(16:43):
I think whatever it is that we are envisioning now,
no one thought visical could be possible, Like that's three
years ago. So I guess it's just the idea of
bringing things to life.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And you said that your designs come from visions.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, I have. I usually have. It sounds crazy, Yeah,
I enjoy my dreams and my visions. Like if I
go to a gallery, something can just come to me
in my head. And essentially that's to me the idea
of changing something from what it usually is, or something
randomly can just come to me when I'm sleeping and
then I wake up and then I have to write
(17:21):
it down.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah I was going to say, you have to write
it down. I'm sure right, Yes, Yes, You've been talking
quite a lot about spirituality, and I want to talk
to you about your masks. Can you talk a little
bit about the role that masquerade culture played in your
childhood and what role the masks play in your everyday
(17:45):
life today.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Okay, so growing up as a child, as a female child,
essentially we weren't allowed to see masquerades. It's usually supposed
to be only one by men, and also most of
the times in most cultures only seen also by men.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
So maybe you could explain what masquerades are so that
people know, oh.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I mean everyone should know what a masquerade is, I guess. Traditionally,
masquerades are the embodiment of spirits. In most cultures, they
used to celebrate coronation or also brought out in times
of death, also in order to lead the spirit into
the other world peacefully and gracefully. But also in other
(18:27):
times it's also used as a time for harvesting, for
a time of seasonal change. It could be usedful mostly
just the act of celebration, whether it's in life or
death too. I think even in the form of harvesting,
when things are growing out from the ground, that's actual
life rebirth or new birth of crops, a new market day.
(18:50):
So all that is the use of the masquerade. And
in my work I usually use it to also celebrate
the announcement or the reveal of my performance of a
new project, of a new process. And I always say
it's a moving ritual performance which happens usually in an
installation space which I have to build. But it's usually
(19:11):
something that I think, it's ceremonial and it's a ritual
process that I think it's something that I always have
to be doing at least twice a year it's also
I guess, like I said, in form of a rebirth
or birth of a new idea which I've come up with.
So I love using the idea of a masquerade to
celebrate that, I think most importantly, as you can see,
(19:34):
I'm very shy, so I usually where the sunglasses and
the hat. So the idea of anonymity or hiding yourself,
I guess, guarding yourself more like from the outside world
is the idea of what essentially I love about masquerades
because in other times they were used as a form
of protection in terms of moving from one city to
(19:57):
another city. So the masquerades would come out at night
and sort of stare everyone in their homes, and so
everyone is staying homes, and then people will be able
to migrate to within these massive masquerade builds or garments
and be able to sort of securely move from one
place to another in times of wars or trouble. I
(20:18):
love the idea of mastering because of how you can
use them for multiple things, and how they sort of
create different stories through different traditions and different cultures and
different tribes. But I think I enjoyed the materiality that
goes into making them, and how different materials can be
used into making some things that nobody can even explain
what they mean.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Also, and also though it's very different to Western culture,
which is about revealing everything people live streaming their bus,
you know, on social media, it's completely the opposite.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I mean, I am challenged by that concept too. I
feel like that's that's too much of a.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Reveal for me.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
But it's really directly in opposition to that concept, right
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I believe the new currency is privacy. I think the
idea of knowing as little as possible is still very
unique to our existence as human beings, because essentially we
don't know everything. So I think the idea of what
is unknown to is also still very unique in creativity,
as you don't know what is within the spirit, but
don't you just know what the spirit is embodying. In
(21:26):
terms of the way they dance, the way they move.
Masquerads can represent different gods in terms of the God
of space and time, the God of war, the God
of water and abundance. So I think it's amazing how
these different masquerads essentially come together, and I mean in
different parts of the continent of Africa have different celebrations
(21:48):
at festivals to also celebrate this ancient culture, but also
finding a way to preserve these cultures through time is
essentially what my main research is about. I enjoy travel,
being through different countries and trying to figure out, okay,
this is what happens here at this time, and understanding
how these communities thoroughly enjoy these things. I mean, they
(22:12):
don't understand the half of what is going on, but
they know, Okay, this is happening at this time every
single year, and we have to be part of it.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
You know. We talk a lot about I mean, at
least I deal with my friends about how a simpler
life can allow space for a more spiritual life. Have
you observed that with living and spending time with the
different artisans in different communities and then also living in,
you know, a very capitalistic culture.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yes, I mean, essentially that's a major part of what
my work is antich capitalism, because I believe everyone's trying
to be so sustainable and circular. But if you were
living a much more simpular life, you wouldn't be having
these difficulties in which we're having with essentially a lot
with plastic and other withst materials in terms of recycled
(23:04):
clothing and everything. If we lived in a much more
simpler life, we would be able to, I guess, be
more mindful with whatever it is that's happening around us
and have lesser issues. But I think the human being
is the human being, and the human being enjoys chaos.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And isn't that true? Yeah, that really is. So I
want to talk a bit about your twenty twenty collection
because it was called Chasing Evil. Yes, why that name?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So that was one of my favorite collections. Act can
thank you for bringing that. I made that just before
COVID was announced in terms of the lockdown, was in
Nairubi and we had to finish making everything and I
had to run back to Nigeria because I was like,
(23:57):
if I had to die anywhere and it's the end
of the world with okay, I might as well die
where I was born, and that's obviously where my mom
and my son are. So I was like, okay, let
me just run back home. But before doing that, I
was like, okay, I had researched. The year before, we
had spent about six or four months in Congo and
I was working with this community of survivors from the war,
(24:20):
and it's a woman's female community. It's a called City
of Joy, and we had to rehabilitate their minds. They
were all raped victims from the war, so we had
to use fashion to bring back their stability or their
mind back to a certain state. And one of the
things I said to them in that series was inspired
by this spiritual figurine which I discovered in Congress called
(24:43):
and Conde Kissy, and you put it in front of
your house when you're protecting yourself from evil, so essentially
it chases evil away. So what I told them is
that I want you to dress in a way that
no man or any entity would be so afraid to
even come here you're tach you or even try to
rape you, that you would have to be dressing like royalty,
(25:04):
or be dressing in such a way that nobody would
ever want to even think of harming you or even
trying to do anything to you. So I guess the
idea of chasing evil came from that figuring that I
discovered in Congo, and I wanted to use that idea
to also translate into the fabric. So that's where we
created this fabric for the first time where we interwove raffia,
(25:25):
which I sourced in Congo also, and then cotton organic
cotton which I sawced in Tanzania, and then we wove
everything in Kenya. And the idea when we created the
weaf was to have the raffia sticking out like spikes
on a the animal calls a porcupine that has the
(25:46):
best spikes, So we wore when we wove the raffia,
we cut it up in a way after so that
emid this like spiky effect on the fabric, and that
was the idea for chasing evil. The fact that also
it's inspired by the whole time I spent in Congo,
because I believe there's only one country to me in
Africa that literally is the twin country to Nigeria, and
(26:10):
I think that is Congo definitely, and it's also one
of the strongest countries I believe in the world, essentially
being the country that can also super sourced and super
like energize the whole continent with all the natural resources
and all the amazing things that come out of that place.
And it reminds me essentially of my country to Nigeria.
(26:32):
Everything we have, even this microphone and this laptop, all
the elements that go into this all come from Congo.
So I believe for me, it's the idea of protecting self,
protecting one spirit and essentially, what are we all afraid of?
It's evil? So chasing evil for me is, you know,
outside of just being afraid of evil, I want to
(26:52):
confront evil head on. I want to go and look
for the evil and chase the evil as opposed to
having it come to me and chasing me.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I would want to chase e being proactive. Yes, How
did the women respond to you said that you were
using fashion to help their minds, to bring their minds back?
How did that work?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
It went very very well. Ry not to cry, but yeah,
it was one of the most emotional projects I've ever
worked on because I had to put myself in their position.
I had to put myself in their stories. I had
to put myself in how I exist also as a woman,
also in Africa and a highly patriarchal society, and seeing
(27:36):
how they also feel with themselves being armed in that process,
and how the idea of clothing in itself being that
veicle of communication is also a source of protection. The
reason why we wear clothes every day is to also
protect ourselves from anything from harm. So for me, it
was about teaching them how to sort of calculate how
(27:58):
to use clothing, how to wear clothing, but also how
to make clothing that would also protect yourself, protect to being,
protect your soul, and protect your stroit also. So it
was a very emotional project for me. I enjoyed every moment.
I enjoyed sharing their stories, I enjoyed seeing how they've
also reformed with life, and I enjoyed most of all
(28:20):
seeing their reaction to the pieces we made for them.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it sounds like it was a powerful experience for
you and for the women that you worked with. Yeah,
and testament to the fact that also fashion, which people
sometimes you know, don't dismiss as being yeah, just fashion. Yeah,
there's so much more that can be done and the
(28:46):
power of fashion.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, exactly. A lot of my work deals with removing
borders and has this ideology borderless constructs and concepts. I
believe a lot of the situations we go through have
been through different concepts which have to do with different
things socio political or religion, you know, race. So I
guess removing all these things out of all these situations
(29:11):
is essentially what my work essentially wants to focus on.
And in this situation or in whatever it is that
I'm creating with fashion, I want people to have a
freer mind of reasoning, a freer approach to how to
wear pieces or how to relate to fashion, express themselves exactly,
(29:32):
but also how to also see other people who are
expressing themselves and not judge them.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, allow a larger space for everybody express themselves in
all different ways.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah. You go to other countries and you wear a
pair of shorts and everyone is looking at you sideways,
or you wear something that sees through your mession, everyone
is that cover up. You go to certain places and
you're covered up and everyone So you like, why is
this think around? So? I think a lot of us
(30:06):
are hyperenormalized to certain ideas or on fashion, based on
how we've been hyperenormalized to be, to be seen or
to be fashionable. So it's about just allowing everybody to be.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
And maybe exposing people to you know, for me at least,
you know, I like anything that challenges people's concept of
normal exactly, you know, and allows people to expand what
is acceptable for them, and I think you're also talking
about that as well.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It sounds like you're always kind of researching different yes,
concepts and ideas and what are you focused on at
the moment. What's inspiring you at the moment?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Oh, architecture, That's why I'm here in the middle of
knowing this park in Venice.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What kind of architecture are you looking at?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
The architecture of the body and space through time? I
believe the body exists within different spaces, so I focused
on the body for the last ten years. So I
want to move into space now and see how the
body reacts to space and how the space also reacts
to the body, So essentially seeing the space as the
(31:25):
spirits too, as well as the body as spirit. So
the spirit also is space also, I guess in explaining
that further is how you may enter space and you
may have this certain aura or energy come over you.
And that's what happens to me. Most times when you
enter space, you're like, oh, no, I'm going and then
(31:46):
when you enter another space, you're like, wow, what is
So I think it's about creating more of those spaces
that transcend your energy and your spirit in a very
mindful manner, but also using actract materials that you essentially
would never find within the space too.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, you talked about working with the female form, and
that brings me to VS and working with them. So
VS asked you to create a collection inspired by the
female form, and what did you visualize when you heard
that brief?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
So I was I think since last year, two years ago,
I started my research into ancient European ed mythology. So
it's a continuous process in which I was researching. And
at the time when they messaged me, I was literally
at a voodoo festival in.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
The middle of amazing invidinary Republic, and I was like, Yeah, essentially,
it's whatever as I'm creating for on this commission, it's
it's going to have to do with spirituality, and essentially
you want to accelerate or separate the field form.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And I think there's no other way to do that
more than talking about gods and goddesses, because essentially those
are the main essential processes in spirituality that accelerate the
female form. In different archaetypes of the female or the
female form, how the female gets angry, how the female
can transcend through space and time, how the female can
(33:24):
be a bondant, how the female is fertile, how the
female is just this exceptional form of being. So I'm
thankfully female. So I was like, wow, Essentially, I want
to break down these archaetypes into ten different spaces and
into ten different forms, and into ten different colors and
(33:47):
also ten different materials. So it was about creating a
collection around all the materials that I've worked with previously,
and also transforming those materials in a new respect of
the idea in connection to the different gods and goddesses
that we were referring to.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Does each outfit represent a different goddess.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, a different deity. So each deity was represented by
a different color and a different material also, so we
used brass and bronze for the goddess of all female goddesses,
which is Ymoja. We used glass or locals the goddess
of the ocean or deity of the ocean, because it
(34:31):
could also be in the idea of urban drymatology, the
construct of male female does not also exist, so it's
also about removing that construct, was still also accelerating the
female format at the same time. We used red and
we represented that with Everything was made from plastic, handmade beads,
(34:53):
and we had to connect each of them also using plastic.
It's really amazing. A lot of the materials we create
it was from scratch. We made all our materials from scratch.
There was one piece we made we had to wait
for the worms we used to eerie silk worms. We
had to wait for the worms to create the cocoons
and wow, we had to now spin the silk, then
(35:17):
diet and then weaved. So everything essentially that we made
was all made from scratch and all made by hand.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
My gosh, thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Wow. What do you hope will be the impact from
creating this collection?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Everyone asked me that you know, and I never know
the answer to that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Because because you're not making it for that.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I mean, everyone makes things to hope we have a
good impact. I was just creating for myself, to be honest,
I was just creating. I love experimenting, so it was
just a new form of me experimenting. And I do
hope the world sees it and understands and values it
(36:06):
in form of this art form. I think fashion is
seen as an art form from my perspective, and I
think the impact that I hope people will get from
that is to see and appreciate what I've created not
only as fashion, but much more as an art for
the fame of from what essentially the most important is
understanding the stories behind each and every piece that I created.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
M what surprised you about this process of working with
VS to create this collection?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
What surprised me? Yeah, what surprised me is I surprised
myself by the amount of time I used to be
able to create all these hand processes. I realized that
I actually work quite well under pressure. So yeah, I
surprised myself by being able to meet up with all
(36:59):
the deadline because usually I don't have anyone telling me, oh,
we have a deadline for this, this, and that. I
usually always work on accorring to my own deadlines. I
get commissioned by museums and galleries, but they always work
with my own deadline. But working in this case with
VS and they're like, okay, we have to shoot on
this day and this then I'm like okay, But all
(37:21):
my processes take, like the worm eight months to create.
There's another piece that we were making from a tree.
We scrape the body of the tree, we have to
beat it. Stretched so could and water for about six months,
then diet in clay. I was like, okay, okay, guys,
you guys need need to understand how I have to
(37:44):
convince all my own artisans that I'm not crazy in
this timeframe. And thankfully everyone worked according to this time schedule.
So I think a lot of my work has to
do with space and time. So in this timeframe, I
think I surprised myself. I was able to create in
the space for the body according to the time. Boo boo.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. I'm
so curious to actually see what you've designed. Sounds extraordinary
and thank you for the work you do, and thank
you for taking the time today to share some of
your journey with us.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me on here.
I enjoyed speaking with you you too.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thank you so much. You have been listening to VS Voices,
the official companion podcast to the VS World Tour. My
thanks to today's guest and if you love our show,
please comment, like, and follow us wherever you listen to
your favorite podcasts, and as always, you can join me
amand Decademy on Instagram. VS. Voices is part of Victoria's Secrets,
(38:55):
ongoing commitment to creating positive change for women. Together, we
are amplifying the voices and perspectives of women from all backgrounds,
and please remember that sharing stories brings us closer together.
Thank you for listening.
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