January 24, 2022 • 37 mins
In her first-ever podcast interview, model and advocate Bella Hadid speaks to host Amanda de Cadenet about everything from mental health, creative outlets, and processing grief, to finding her voice.
In conversations around the modeling industry, family relationships, and future endeavors, Hadid gives us an in-depth glimpse into her life and career.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to VS Voices. I'm a Mandy Acadeney. In this
episode of Voices, I talked to model and found A
Bella Hadid for her first ever podcast. Together. Bella and
I talk about how she often felt like the black
sheep of her family and how finding therapy in her
twenties helped Bella to manage fame at such a young age,
prioritize self care, and expand her creative and entrepreneurial skills. Hi,
(00:30):
I'm so excited to talk to you. Thank you. I'm
so excited that we're going to be speaking me to
Where are you? I am in New York at the
cutest women run studio, and I just feel like I
want to hang out here all the time. Anyways, I've
never been to a place like this. When I was
doing research, I was like, have you done a podcast before?
(00:53):
I've never done a podcast. You are my first podcast,
and I don't really do a lot of interview is
in general because I'm kind of just always nervous. Thank
you for trusting me, and thank you for being willing
to do your first podcast with me. I feel very honored,
Thank you, and thank you for having me too. I
(01:14):
normally love your podcast, but I feel really comfortable with you,
so I appreciate this, and I'm glad that this is
my first podcast with someone like you. Thank you, thank you,
thank you. There's a lot going on in the world.
I feel like it's hard sometimes for me to feel
like my voice is important because there are so many
(01:35):
incredible voices out there, and I just feel I could
just stay back here and help out where I can,
but I know that I need to step into yourself
in that realm. Not to finish that sentence for you,
but no, But it's true because I write in my
journal and I have a lot to say, and I
really am good at putting it out on paper. But
(01:55):
people just always have something to say. Even if I
said something that made a lot of sense, they would
still make fun of my voice and how I said
it in this and that, and it's just you know
the deal. But this is the first year I took
time away, and I had never done that before, so
it was a big experience for me to be able
to make the time for myself and kind of experience
(02:17):
life without the material and the you know, cameras and
the lifestyle that I had been living for so many
years that didn't feel true to me. And once I
was able to be at a place and take the
time for myself and see myself through others eyes, that
(02:38):
wasn't just the world's vision of what I was supposed
to be. It's really interesting and it was really a
lot of clarity for me to really see myself again.
I think that's most important, as being able to look
in the mirror and be proud of the person that
you see. And for so long unless you really do
that deep work and you have to be alone and
you have to really feel the things that you maybe
(03:01):
pushed down and didn't want to feel for many years.
And that's when I was able to grow in a
way that I had never experienced before. I was able
to see myself in a way I was never able
to see myself and find things about myself that I
didn't even know existing within me. What was some of
those things? Of course, work is important to pay my rent,
(03:24):
but everything else started to make its way above working
because I realized how impactful human interaction and family and
new hobbies and finding new music, new books, those things,
to me are what helps your mind grow. And if
(03:44):
you don't have that, your mind stops working. Everything is
so connected. Your brain is connected to your gut. You're
not eating correctly if you're not taking care of yourself,
getting vitamin D every day, taking walks that affects your brain.
Which I realized all of these things. I kept you
complaining to myself and almost victimizing myself for the way
that I felt because I always felt so bad. And
(04:08):
then once I went away for a little while and
started listening to my body, I realized, like everything is
able to be changed by the course of action that
you take for yourself, which includes everything and includes these
conversations that we're having now, and includes the way that
(04:28):
you eat working out. I started to not even work
out to be toned or lose weight. I had to
go leave my house, be with people and human life
besides the people at work, and literally just walked to
get my heart rate moving. I had purpose that morning,
and it almost gives you purpose for the rest of
your day. And then the cycle continues, but you stay
(04:51):
stagnant if you don't continue. It sounds like you really
simplified your life because in many ways, when you started walking,
your life changed so fast, and it picked up speed
to the point where you no longer had time to
even connect with yourself or know who you were in
(05:11):
that time frame because so much change for you, and
you changed a lot during that time frame. So it
sounds like what I'm hearing you say is that you
took time to really get to know yourself who Bella
is today. Absolutely. I mean coming into this business at
seventeen eighteen, I was still just a kid about to
go into college, literally trying to see which college I
(05:35):
wanted to go to, what I wanted to do with
my life. To be put in a box at such
a young age, to not be able to grow and
find myself, I almost stayed seventeen for so many years,
and things that happened when I was younger than I
stayed thirteen that I stayed eight. Those are the pinnacle
moments for me that I realized I had to do
the work to be able to go back and fix
(05:58):
not even the mistakes, more so the actions of my life.
That was pretty much my growth was being able to
say that I am allowed to find myself again. Give
yourself that permission, that permission to be able to say
who I was at seventeen, I don't have to be
that anymore. I can grow, as we all can, and
(06:18):
so many of us don't know that it is okay
to grow and to change, and it's okay to forgive
yourself for making mistakes or making choices that you made
with the only information you had at that time. Absolutely,
when I was reading about you, one of the things
is that you had described yourself as a black sheet.
(06:41):
Is that accurate? I always just separated myself from a
young age. You know, I was the one kid that
would sleep out every night at my girlfriend's houses and
just felt more attached to other things in my life
than what was given to me. I've always just wanted
to see the world from a different person, active and explore,
(07:01):
and whether that made me the black Sheep or not,
I was just unlike my family in a lot of ways,
And now as I grow older with them, I've realized
so many more similarities. With my brother and I were
both very spiritual. My sister and I are super similar.
She's the more logical one, but I found my boundaries
within being the black Sheep. To me, what that means
(07:22):
is that that you have a perspective and a point
of view that isn't considered normal. Whatever that is. Yeah.
I always felt like my voice was never heard growing up,
So that's why I have a lot of complications. Now
I'm able to open up and speak my mind, especially
within my relationships and within my family, not so much
(07:43):
to the public like in interviews. That's different in real
personal time, and that's what matters. Yeah, thank you. I
grew up around men, whether that was in relationships or
family or whatever, that was where I was constantly told
that my voice was not it was less important than
(08:06):
their voice. It's patriarchal where women are just viewed differently
and men are the superior. They're the ones that run
ship and they say what goes, and that's just culture.
But then moving into relationships, growing up, not having the
boundaries of being able to stick up for myself and
have my voice being heard affected me in my adult
(08:29):
relationships very intensely. Actually, where I my nervous system would crash.
It was like fight or flight. Either I would become
silent and cry and just go inward, or I would
lash out and leave. You know, there's one more did
you know this? This fight flight or fawn and fawn
(08:52):
that's the scariest, the one that's the one where you
do anything to appease them and get them to stay,
where you just go into people pleasing mode. That's the
other trauma response. Yeah, absolutely hundred and that's something that
I really had to work on, where I constantly went
(09:12):
back to men and also women that had abused me.
And that's where the people pleasing came in, where I
started to not have boundaries, not only sexually, physically, emotionally,
but then it went into my workspace where I didn't
want to associate with any people. I didn't want to
have any friends, I didn't want to have any family.
(09:33):
So my work, I became to be a people pleaser
with my job, and it was everyone else's opinion of
me that mattered except for my own, because I essentially
was putting my worth into the hands of everyone else,
and that was the detriment of it, and that was
the downfall was even though I know that this is
not good for me, you're compelled to do it. Please
(09:55):
take all of me instead. Yes, right, you're compelled to
do it. I think it's a very brave thing to
choose to step away from your life, especially when it's
going well on the outside. It's a very brave thing
to admit that to yourself and to be honest enough
with yourself to say, I don't know what to do,
(10:16):
but I know that something is really wrong right. Was
there a moment where you knew I need to pay
attention to myself something's not right here? Or was it cumulative? Cumulative?
For sure, But it really got to a point and
a place where I looked at everything that I had
done over the past eight years. I had the most
(10:38):
September covers out of anybody in history. These accolades that
I had picked up on the way. I never even
realized that they happened. I never was able to pat
myself on the back and say, Wow, you really did
work hard. It was always me and this like dark
hole of autopilot, just trying to make it through. You're
doing something constantly on a for it ten hour days
(11:00):
where they're calling and saying, oh, well, can we just
have her for three more hours and my agent says no.
Then they come to me, they pushed my boundaries and
there till midnight and then I have to get on
the flight the next morning, or doing six shows a
day with a hundred and four fever like before COVID,
where now it wouldn't fly only because people would think
you might have COVID, not because they were worried about
(11:22):
you selfishly being in it and not having friends or
family around ever, missing birthdays, missing weddings, missing everything important,
and then losing your friends in that process, and then
losing family members, not being able to say goodbye because
you're at a job across the world and you have
to fly twenty four hours back to another job. There
(11:44):
was no substance to me because I had given all
that I had two my career and the people in
my life, and the people in my career who essentially
couldn't fix anything for me except for maybe a call
or to every week, but I had I realized I
had to fix that for myself. But my best friend
(12:05):
Jesse Joe said something to me a few years ago,
and it was really it's stuck with me still to
this day. She said, when you don't feel constantly good
about wherever you are, whatever state of being that you're in,
you have to make a change to something different. And
I realized I was in this circle constantly of the
(12:27):
same routine every day. I would work every day and
when I was home and had a few days off,
I laid in bed all day. I was exhausted and
so never self friends never did this, never did that.
And Jesse was always like, you have to change something.
You do the same thing every day, your routine is
exactly the same. I always just wanted to make everyone proud,
(12:49):
work as hard as I could, be kind to do
these things. And I did check those things off of
the list, but I realized there was a whole other
list I wasn't looking at. And she said, you need
to make it change. And every time I felt super
down on myself, I realized I was feeling bad for myself,
but I wasn't doing anything to change. And when I
(13:11):
was able to look at myself and have that you know, humility,
and be able to almost see myself from an outside
perspective and say, Okay, maybe I do need to make
a change. We were at her family's house in Aspen,
and we were all together and our pajamas every day,
just spending quality time. And I was just like wake
up in the morning, just crying, like what is belt okay?
(13:35):
Like someone would come bring me a bagel or whatever
to bed, and everyone would be out skiing and snowboarding
or whatever, and I would just be like, you guys,
go without me, it's all good. You lost connection to joy.
I lost joy completely. It's a bizarre place to be
in because of the fact that, as you said, there's
nothing wrong in my life. There obviously are little things
(13:55):
that are relationships with family members, people, whatever that might be.
We all have our ship, we do, and I can't
say that like that part of my life is so perfect.
But there are, you know, amazing aspects of my life
that there's no reason for me to be this sad
and I would wake up in the morning with this
like pain of guilt. But I think that's also something
(14:18):
that people, a lot of people can relate to because
the same way as someone may have diabetes and it's
just it's a genetic condition. Mental health is there's many theories.
My theory is that it's a combination of genetics and environment,
and we don't even realize that we're putting ourselves in
(14:40):
environments where we neglect ourselves. And what I hear you saying,
and what is so great for me to hear you saying,
is that you realize that actually your relationship with yourself
and taking care of yourself mentally, physically, spiritually is the
key and is the key right, And it looks different
for everyone, And so I'm interested in what the things
(15:05):
are that have helped you to shift your perspective and
reconnect with yourself in a way that makes you feel
like And obviously I don't I'm not saying every day,
because no one has every day filled with joy, But
what has brought you back to center and brought you
back to yourself in a way that has been helpful
and nourishing. Number one, staying off social media. Honestly, it
(15:29):
sounds very cliche, but to not have the energy of
everyone else and their projections being projected back onto you
is one of the most powerful things of all time.
So that was really Number one. To therapy. I grew
up in a very Arab and European family that therapy
(15:49):
was not a thing, and I was the first one
in my family to go to therapy. So that was
a big step forward that progressed kind of my whole
family's chance of healing because when everyone followed, which was
really enlightening for me to see how that domino effect
(16:09):
affected our family, which was really amazing. Also, my meditation
at night, my meditation in the morning, taking a walk, exercising,
making sure that I have my vitamins and all of
those things. I feel like we've heard that so many times,
and at this point, what I've realized, it's a cliche
for a reason, because it actually does want. It's a
cliche for a reason because of the fact that it works,
(16:33):
and it's something that when I started it um and
realized it wasn't as hard as everyone said it was,
it changed my life three sixty And once you start
to really understand meditation and comply with it almost and
take it in as a routine instead of when you
feelings that anxious, you just put one on and hope
(16:55):
for the best aid like a band aid. Like you
do it as an everyday routine to be able to
limit those days instead of just bandating over what you
hope might help, so when those times do come, you
understand how to actually take care of yourself. But honestly,
for me, living in New York, you walk outside and
(17:19):
there is every single walk of life that you could
ever see, families. You almost make up stories in your
head of what people are experiencing. It's my favorite thing
to do and I really do love to do that
and walk down the street. But the painful part of
it is majority of the people that we do see
in New York are going through things. They're going through
(17:41):
a lot this year. I just bought almost a thousand
codes just so I can go drop them off to
people because it's so brick outside, Like people just need
to feel a little bit supported and warm. Being of
service to me is not only my love language, but
what makes my literal world to go around. Those little
moments are what make me come out of the way
(18:06):
that I feel something. Yeah, you're so right about that,
And I think one of the dangers of being in
a negative mindset or being overwhelmed with depression is that
we isolate, and that cuts us off from humanity and
from other people. Absolutely to also look at yourself, not singularly.
(18:29):
We have a whole crew of people that are mentally unstable,
and I am good to be in that crew, and
I am happy to be in that crew because I
do find the people I connect with most when I
am in that crew. I might deal with things differently
than somebody else, and my life might be more impressive
from the outside than somebody else's. But also like there
(18:49):
are things that we're also we're dealing with that are
so similar that it almost makes you just feel more
connected to the world, to human beings in general. Human
interaction is genuinely the form of healing that I think
everybody needs to remember. God, I couldn't agree with you more.
I was literally saying that to my husband this morning.
(19:10):
And your friend Virgil recently passed, and you spent a
couple of days with your community and his community, and
collective grieving is so important to help process loss and sadness.
And as someone who is very empathetic, which you are,
(19:33):
I'm wondering how that experience was for you painful. I don't.
I am at a loss for words when it comes
to this passing. I almost just feel he's in Paris
working and his phones off, and I think that's how
(19:55):
a lot of us, a lot of his friends, my
friends are friends, have been dealing with this is for
a while was like out of sight, like we couldn't
deal with the thought of him being gone, but all
coming together and being able to celebrate his life in
a way that we used to celebrate all together. It
was really powerful because at the memorial we'd be smiling
(20:18):
all together and dancing and it would feel like he
was just hovering. He would feel like he was just
right on the other side, and we all felt that way,
and all of a sudden, I would look over and
my heart would drop and I would just start bawling
and realize, like that was just a fragment of my imagination.
And but the best part was that I had ten
(20:40):
people around me that felt the same way, and we
were able to just talk about stories and memories and
how much we loved him and why and why he
loved us and why we are actually also similar because
of the connection we have with him. And it was
really beautiful. And I know that I connected on a
different level with so many new people, old people that
I've and for so many years that I was able
(21:02):
to connect with again, And so I hope people felt
that same way about their experience with me. I've never
dealt with this kind of besides my grandmother, which was
the biggest loss for me a few years ago. Losing
a friend like this was just really hard to believe.
But I just think about his family, and it was
(21:24):
beautiful wife Shannon and their two kids, and I just
always hope that they know like they have aunties and
uncles surrounding them that go to different universes, like they
have hundreds of people that love them and that will
always support I know that v did that for a reason.
I know that he made his circles so wide that
(21:44):
his family would be supported forever, mentally, physically, in every
form of the word. And he really did that, So
we just I know that his time on this earth
was limited because of how much he has to do
up there, you know what I mean? And I never
knew that. I always believed in afterlife. I always believe
(22:07):
in reincarnation going somewhere else, but not to this extent
of how much I believe it. Knowing that our friend,
our brother Virgil is up there like literally painting sunsets
right now, do you know what I mean? And that's
genuinely how I feel about it, Like he has so
much work to do as an angel now and I
(22:28):
know that he's just he's up there, just like deejaying
life God needed help with a new art director. So
I think that's pretty much the way that I'm dealing
with this. And I realized I'm not super good at grief,
Like I don't go through all the steps because I
just you know, throw it to the back. But this one,
(22:51):
I really I went through the steps and I'm able
to now look at it in a different way and
know that there is life, but there's also death, and
it's it's the only inevitability, isn't it? That we are
bown and then we die and everything in between is
debatable and we don't know what's really going to happen.
That's the painful truth, honestly, and we all do need
(23:13):
to prepare for those moments of anyone around you passing.
But the thing about v and what we've all learned
from it is like the way that Virgil was a
person to every single person, and he made an impact
on everyone's life. And that's why him and I always
connected was that him and I are huggers. Like I
walk onto set, he walks onto set. I am hugging
(23:35):
every person that I see in my line of fire
until I start shooting. I go and speak to everybody.
I want to hear about stories. I want to hear
about their family, what their kids are doing today. Him
and I both really enjoyed that human interaction, and I
think that's why we got along. We're both libras too,
so we just really clicked with that. Before I start sobbing,
(24:00):
I just I miss him a lot, but I know
that he left us with so much, and it's funny.
I know the next few years he's going to be
dropping little little gems and hints and things, and that's
what keeps me excited. And it's just it's a hard
loss to be honest, but I know that there's a
(24:23):
reason for everything. And that's the worst way to yeah,
I mean, the worst way to put it, but it's
I don't know. I've gotten to the point where I
can't even explain myself over this. There are some things
that are just not really easy to put into words,
and this is one of them. I wanted to talk
to you a bit about creativity because whenever you and
(24:43):
I have spoken, you're so motivated and inspired by creativity.
In my spare time, I sit and I make decks.
That's all I do when I'm not working. I'm at
home in my computer on my laptops outside. I would
pull I have like hundreds because it's all that I
like to do when I'm at home. Every week I'm
in meetings and they just are like we've never had
(25:04):
somebody come in with a new deck every day. And
so I really that's my creative out of all of this.
When I even for work and for jobs, even if
they don't ask for it, I'm coming with the references
of what hair and makeup, and I have covers that
will be solely based on my decks that I make.
And it's just that's where I feel heard and seen,
(25:25):
like in my modeling part of all of this, because
I'm able to still give that you come and bring
your references, because when you can work with collaborators who
appreciate you bringing your perspective, you can make magical images. Yeah. Absolutely,
I also don't want to do it to offend. It's
really for my own joy. And so when people really
do react to it in a great way and they
(25:47):
do appreciate what I've done like that, just it's it
makes me just feel so much better. Like I always
say to my agent, I want to start a creative
agency because I just have to find so much joy
with building those decks and having people converse about them.
And when we get to set, we're able to really
have those conversations. I love that you bring that to
work with you. But I also wanted to ask you
(26:09):
if you've thought about any other forms of creativity. Yeah. Absolutely.
I have three collections I'm designing with separate companies, and
for that people to have a place where I'm able
to be creative and put all of my thoughts in
one place but also compartmentalize them, which is crazy and
a d h D brain can't really do that. And
(26:30):
so it was interesting to see how I was able to.
For this idea, I wanted to be all like this,
and for this idea, I want that to be a
different person, and for this idea, she's a different girl too. Right.
Who's your goal for each one? Right? And maybe they're
not all? They're not all. Are they aspects of you?
Or are they different goals? No? I mean it's what
I feel the world honestly wants. I envisioned these things,
(26:54):
and I find references and I'm able to put them
in order. And that's why it's also for girls and boys.
Like I don't design for one person, but I think
that it is interesting to look at how all of
that kind of comes together, because I do really think
about little details of things, and slowly, over time I'll
(27:18):
see them actually coming to life in magazines and this
and that, and I'm like, that's cool. You thought of
that six months ago. I thought about that six months ago.
And now it's coming into fruition. When is the first
thing coming out? When's the first collection coming out? Maybe
in the next six months, So hoping I can probably
give you more information in February because January is when
(27:40):
you know all of the meetings are going to start
happening again. Right now, I'm super focused on honestly, Ken.
So you invested into a company, a drinks company called Kin.
How did that come about? I didn't invest any money,
and I'm a partner now with my partner Jen, and
it's been Ken has been around for almost three and
(28:03):
a half years now. I've been on board for a
little over a year and a half, coming to too soon.
When I came on, it was a startup with just
my partner, and she's such a hard worker, Jen, She's amazing.
But it's not like I walked into a business that
was already fresh and done. We still are fundraising and
getting investors and I'm in those meetings every day. I'm
(28:24):
also a founder and it is wow. Is it a journey? Yeah?
For me? I was a consumer before I even started
with him, and I told myself years ago I would
never endure something that I didn't a hundred percent stand by.
I don't do those things on Instagram. That's important to
me to be able to keep that real illness online.
But basically, when I was really really down and dark
(28:44):
and I was taking gab every day, I was taking
all of these different supplements from my holistic doctor, I
found this drinkkin and it was a startup she had
just started. She's a genius. My partner Jen I found her.
I met after I took my first sip and it
brought me that energy without anxiety, and that's what I
(29:05):
always craved. But we walked in all both of us
with all of our crystal bracelets, talking about the moon,
and I was like, I need this woman in my life,
regardless of if we work together or not. The universe
brought us together for a reason. And now I'm concocting
my first product and the deck that for that, Oh
(29:27):
my god, I want to see that deck. That's fun.
And then I also have like my merch deck that
I'm going to do in collaboration with a friend of mine.
She's an incredible artist and so there's all those different
sides of it as well that are super interesting. But
yesterday I'm in a business meeting for three and a
half hours, and for me, I also realize using your
(29:47):
brain makes your brain work better, and that also stems
from mental health too, and being able to builds your
self esteem because you realize, oh, I'm capable of thinking
this and brain and brainstorming like this and coming out
with solutions and building plans and ideating, and that builds
self esteem because then we feel capable. But also knowing
(30:10):
that if I am not on those calls, if you're
not showing up and and if I'm not showing up fully,
this thing is going to go under. That's what's super
interesting about it is we really do that work and
it is really rewarding because it's not just always going
to be the glitz and the glamour and just cash
(30:30):
coming in, and so that work that we put in
is very rewarding and it does really help again with
my mental If you don't use it, you lose it.
Let's talk about writing, because I am sure that you
have some woods in you. For me, with writing, it
was never something I just don't get how poets and
writers and music artists like to put your whole soul
(30:57):
out there and just allow will to have opinions on
it is so wild to me. It takes a lot
of strength, and I just really appreciate that from those apprehension, No,
not apprehension. Do you have apprehension about doing it yourself.
I have apprehension about doing it myself, but those all
of those people inspire me. Is what I will say.
(31:20):
I've written since I was, you know, thirteen, But what
I write is really personal and it really is really
from my heart, and it's emotional, and maybe in ten
years from now I'll be able to get over that
being afraid like that. But I don't know. I'm just
not confident enough. And we don't owe anyone our work.
(31:42):
Like I have things that I've written twenty years ago
or ten years ago that maybe one day I'll do
something with maybe I won't. The important pot is that
you're just expressing. It's another way to express yourself and
connect with yourself, which ultimately is the goal. Right Absolutely,
one of the things you're talking about, whether it's working
(32:03):
with your businesses, designing your drink, your meditation, taking time
to be quiet and be in nature and be around horses,
being with your friends. Everything you talked about is about
connecting to yourself and all the different aspects of you.
And that's the kind of overarching desire that I hear
(32:25):
coming from you. Absolutely. I think the future of writing.
I love writing in general, being able to write stories
and broadening the spectrum of what writing can beat for me.
And the Artist's way really helped me with that, which
I think we spoke about before. I love that book
Julia Cameron. Honestly, She's amazing and for me like that
kind of open this whole kind of worms of being
(32:48):
able to find um almost different inspirations within myself to
write about instead of just always being about pain or
love or whatever I like. I also realized I love
writing about the gut. I literally love writing about food health.
I love writing about brain health. I love writing about
(33:10):
daily life with vitamin's doctors and living with line. You
live with line disease, and you really knowledgeable about the
things and the tools that have helped you. That's the thing,
right when you're sick with something, you have to become
your doctor in a wad way. You have to become
like your number one patient and really educate yourself. Yeah,
(33:32):
I have like new I V doctors that come in
all the time, and those conversations to me about the
things that I've learned. Crazy sometimes these are helpful tools
that we can eventually spread out to the world and
help on a different level, almost on a holistic level,
because that's what will heal you more so than an
(33:54):
antibiotic or just like hoping for the best. Ultimately. I
don't know if you're finding this, but I know for me,
all of the things in my life that I thought
were going to be my downfall ultimately were the things
that helped shape me and gave me insight, integrity, wisdom,
(34:14):
growth in a way that I never would have had
if I hadn't have dealt with that period of suffering
or health challenge or whatever it was. And that's the
good news. Yeah, But Amanda, honestly, like the thing about that,
I think about it all of the time. Where I
at seventeen, I was either going to go to Parsons
(34:36):
for photography and film or lived with my best friend
yes me and in San Francisco and go to USF
for film and ride horses. And I was close to
home in San Francisco, and I was going to, you know,
continue to help the barn I was riding at and
just live that life. And I was like perfectly fine
with that. And when my line hit me really badly
when I was sixteen, and I I wasn't able to
(35:01):
ride my horse anymore. By seventeen, I wasn't riding, which
was like my one the thing that I love the most,
which I said before. And photography, like in high school,
I never left the house without my camera. I developed
all my film in the dark room, and I love you.
So those two passions for me were like just something
that I really took with me. But I realized that
(35:23):
if my line didn't get as bad in high school,
when I was making those massive life decisions of what
am I going to do with my life, I would
have completely just stayed in in California, riding my horses,
doing photography, having like my little photography website I used
to have, and called it a day. But instead I
(35:44):
like pushed myself moved to New York. Had to make
a huge decision to go to Parsons instead. And it
was a conscious decision I made, but also so subconscious
because I didn't really lies like the life that I
was almost setting up for myself. Isn't it amazing how
it turns super interesting? I mean that is the foundation
(36:07):
for faith because often I don't know about you, but
for me, I cannot see at the time that there
is some kind of divine plan, and then when I
look back, Oh, that's why that happened. Yeah, exactly. And
I always say everything happens for a reason. Again me
being naive obviously, but I really do believe that in
(36:28):
some ways, except for death, that still doesn't make a
lot of sense to me. But I'm just honestly really needed.
This is like my best Christmas present for me. You're
so sweet. You're so sweet. I wish that I was
sitting close to you so I could just give you
a hot to hot hug. I'm squeezing you from here.
Thank you, Bella, thank you, thank you, honestly, thanks for
(36:49):
showing up and bringing your beautiful open hot Thank you,
thank you, thank you. This is VS Voices, a brand new,
original old podcasts series by Victoria's Secret. Listen here or
wherever you get your podcasts. M
Welcome to VS Voices. I'm a Mandy Acadeney. In this
episode of Voices, I talked to model and found A
Bella Hadid for her first ever podcast. Together. Bella and
I talk about how she often felt like the black
sheep of her family and how finding therapy in her
twenties helped Bella to manage fame at such a young age,
prioritize self care, and expand her creative and entrepreneurial skills. Hi,
(00:30):
I'm so excited to talk to you. Thank you. I'm
so excited that we're going to be speaking me to
Where are you? I am in New York at the
cutest women run studio, and I just feel like I
want to hang out here all the time. Anyways, I've
never been to a place like this. When I was
doing research, I was like, have you done a podcast before?
(00:53):
I've never done a podcast. You are my first podcast,
and I don't really do a lot of interview is
in general because I'm kind of just always nervous. Thank
you for trusting me, and thank you for being willing
to do your first podcast with me. I feel very honored,
Thank you, and thank you for having me too. I
(01:14):
normally love your podcast, but I feel really comfortable with you,
so I appreciate this, and I'm glad that this is
my first podcast with someone like you. Thank you, thank you,
thank you. There's a lot going on in the world.
I feel like it's hard sometimes for me to feel
like my voice is important because there are so many
(01:35):
incredible voices out there, and I just feel I could
just stay back here and help out where I can,
but I know that I need to step into yourself
in that realm. Not to finish that sentence for you,
but no, But it's true because I write in my
journal and I have a lot to say, and I
really am good at putting it out on paper. But
(01:55):
people just always have something to say. Even if I
said something that made a lot of sense, they would
still make fun of my voice and how I said
it in this and that, and it's just you know
the deal. But this is the first year I took
time away, and I had never done that before, so
it was a big experience for me to be able
to make the time for myself and kind of experience
(02:17):
life without the material and the you know, cameras and
the lifestyle that I had been living for so many
years that didn't feel true to me. And once I
was able to be at a place and take the
time for myself and see myself through others eyes, that
(02:38):
wasn't just the world's vision of what I was supposed
to be. It's really interesting and it was really a
lot of clarity for me to really see myself again.
I think that's most important, as being able to look
in the mirror and be proud of the person that
you see. And for so long unless you really do
that deep work and you have to be alone and
you have to really feel the things that you maybe
(03:01):
pushed down and didn't want to feel for many years.
And that's when I was able to grow in a
way that I had never experienced before. I was able
to see myself in a way I was never able
to see myself and find things about myself that I
didn't even know existing within me. What was some of
those things? Of course, work is important to pay my rent,
(03:24):
but everything else started to make its way above working
because I realized how impactful human interaction and family and
new hobbies and finding new music, new books, those things,
to me are what helps your mind grow. And if
(03:44):
you don't have that, your mind stops working. Everything is
so connected. Your brain is connected to your gut. You're
not eating correctly if you're not taking care of yourself,
getting vitamin D every day, taking walks that affects your brain.
Which I realized all of these things. I kept you
complaining to myself and almost victimizing myself for the way
that I felt because I always felt so bad. And
(04:08):
then once I went away for a little while and
started listening to my body, I realized, like everything is
able to be changed by the course of action that
you take for yourself, which includes everything and includes these
conversations that we're having now, and includes the way that
(04:28):
you eat working out. I started to not even work
out to be toned or lose weight. I had to
go leave my house, be with people and human life
besides the people at work, and literally just walked to
get my heart rate moving. I had purpose that morning,
and it almost gives you purpose for the rest of
your day. And then the cycle continues, but you stay
(04:51):
stagnant if you don't continue. It sounds like you really
simplified your life because in many ways, when you started walking,
your life changed so fast, and it picked up speed
to the point where you no longer had time to
even connect with yourself or know who you were in
(05:11):
that time frame because so much change for you, and
you changed a lot during that time frame. So it
sounds like what I'm hearing you say is that you
took time to really get to know yourself who Bella
is today. Absolutely. I mean coming into this business at
seventeen eighteen, I was still just a kid about to
go into college, literally trying to see which college I
(05:35):
wanted to go to, what I wanted to do with
my life. To be put in a box at such
a young age, to not be able to grow and
find myself, I almost stayed seventeen for so many years,
and things that happened when I was younger than I
stayed thirteen that I stayed eight. Those are the pinnacle
moments for me that I realized I had to do
the work to be able to go back and fix
(05:58):
not even the mistakes, more so the actions of my life.
That was pretty much my growth was being able to
say that I am allowed to find myself again. Give
yourself that permission, that permission to be able to say
who I was at seventeen, I don't have to be
that anymore. I can grow, as we all can, and
(06:18):
so many of us don't know that it is okay
to grow and to change, and it's okay to forgive
yourself for making mistakes or making choices that you made
with the only information you had at that time. Absolutely,
when I was reading about you, one of the things
is that you had described yourself as a black sheet.
(06:41):
Is that accurate? I always just separated myself from a
young age. You know, I was the one kid that
would sleep out every night at my girlfriend's houses and
just felt more attached to other things in my life
than what was given to me. I've always just wanted
to see the world from a different person, active and explore,
(07:01):
and whether that made me the black Sheep or not,
I was just unlike my family in a lot of ways,
And now as I grow older with them, I've realized
so many more similarities. With my brother and I were
both very spiritual. My sister and I are super similar.
She's the more logical one, but I found my boundaries
within being the black Sheep. To me, what that means
(07:22):
is that that you have a perspective and a point
of view that isn't considered normal. Whatever that is. Yeah.
I always felt like my voice was never heard growing up,
So that's why I have a lot of complications. Now
I'm able to open up and speak my mind, especially
within my relationships and within my family, not so much
(07:43):
to the public like in interviews. That's different in real
personal time, and that's what matters. Yeah, thank you. I
grew up around men, whether that was in relationships or
family or whatever, that was where I was constantly told
that my voice was not it was less important than
(08:06):
their voice. It's patriarchal where women are just viewed differently
and men are the superior. They're the ones that run
ship and they say what goes, and that's just culture.
But then moving into relationships, growing up, not having the
boundaries of being able to stick up for myself and
have my voice being heard affected me in my adult
(08:29):
relationships very intensely. Actually, where I my nervous system would crash.
It was like fight or flight. Either I would become
silent and cry and just go inward, or I would
lash out and leave. You know, there's one more did
you know this? This fight flight or fawn and fawn
(08:52):
that's the scariest, the one that's the one where you
do anything to appease them and get them to stay,
where you just go into people pleasing mode. That's the
other trauma response. Yeah, absolutely hundred and that's something that
I really had to work on, where I constantly went
(09:12):
back to men and also women that had abused me.
And that's where the people pleasing came in, where I
started to not have boundaries, not only sexually, physically, emotionally,
but then it went into my workspace where I didn't
want to associate with any people. I didn't want to
have any friends, I didn't want to have any family.
(09:33):
So my work, I became to be a people pleaser
with my job, and it was everyone else's opinion of
me that mattered except for my own, because I essentially
was putting my worth into the hands of everyone else,
and that was the detriment of it, and that was
the downfall was even though I know that this is
not good for me, you're compelled to do it. Please
(09:55):
take all of me instead. Yes, right, you're compelled to
do it. I think it's a very brave thing to
choose to step away from your life, especially when it's
going well on the outside. It's a very brave thing
to admit that to yourself and to be honest enough
with yourself to say, I don't know what to do,
(10:16):
but I know that something is really wrong right. Was
there a moment where you knew I need to pay
attention to myself something's not right here? Or was it cumulative? Cumulative?
For sure, But it really got to a point and
a place where I looked at everything that I had
done over the past eight years. I had the most
(10:38):
September covers out of anybody in history. These accolades that
I had picked up on the way. I never even
realized that they happened. I never was able to pat
myself on the back and say, Wow, you really did
work hard. It was always me and this like dark
hole of autopilot, just trying to make it through. You're
doing something constantly on a for it ten hour days
(11:00):
where they're calling and saying, oh, well, can we just
have her for three more hours and my agent says no.
Then they come to me, they pushed my boundaries and
there till midnight and then I have to get on
the flight the next morning, or doing six shows a
day with a hundred and four fever like before COVID,
where now it wouldn't fly only because people would think
you might have COVID, not because they were worried about
(11:22):
you selfishly being in it and not having friends or
family around ever, missing birthdays, missing weddings, missing everything important,
and then losing your friends in that process, and then
losing family members, not being able to say goodbye because
you're at a job across the world and you have
to fly twenty four hours back to another job. There
(11:44):
was no substance to me because I had given all
that I had two my career and the people in
my life, and the people in my career who essentially
couldn't fix anything for me except for maybe a call
or to every week, but I had I realized I
had to fix that for myself. But my best friend
(12:05):
Jesse Joe said something to me a few years ago,
and it was really it's stuck with me still to
this day. She said, when you don't feel constantly good
about wherever you are, whatever state of being that you're in,
you have to make a change to something different. And
I realized I was in this circle constantly of the
(12:27):
same routine every day. I would work every day and
when I was home and had a few days off,
I laid in bed all day. I was exhausted and
so never self friends never did this, never did that.
And Jesse was always like, you have to change something.
You do the same thing every day, your routine is
exactly the same. I always just wanted to make everyone proud,
(12:49):
work as hard as I could, be kind to do
these things. And I did check those things off of
the list, but I realized there was a whole other
list I wasn't looking at. And she said, you need
to make it change. And every time I felt super
down on myself, I realized I was feeling bad for myself,
but I wasn't doing anything to change. And when I
(13:11):
was able to look at myself and have that you know, humility,
and be able to almost see myself from an outside
perspective and say, Okay, maybe I do need to make
a change. We were at her family's house in Aspen,
and we were all together and our pajamas every day,
just spending quality time. And I was just like wake
up in the morning, just crying, like what is belt okay?
(13:35):
Like someone would come bring me a bagel or whatever
to bed, and everyone would be out skiing and snowboarding
or whatever, and I would just be like, you guys,
go without me, it's all good. You lost connection to joy.
I lost joy completely. It's a bizarre place to be
in because of the fact that, as you said, there's
nothing wrong in my life. There obviously are little things
(13:55):
that are relationships with family members, people, whatever that might be.
We all have our ship, we do, and I can't
say that like that part of my life is so perfect.
But there are, you know, amazing aspects of my life
that there's no reason for me to be this sad
and I would wake up in the morning with this
like pain of guilt. But I think that's also something
(14:18):
that people, a lot of people can relate to because
the same way as someone may have diabetes and it's
just it's a genetic condition. Mental health is there's many theories.
My theory is that it's a combination of genetics and environment,
and we don't even realize that we're putting ourselves in
(14:40):
environments where we neglect ourselves. And what I hear you saying,
and what is so great for me to hear you saying,
is that you realize that actually your relationship with yourself
and taking care of yourself mentally, physically, spiritually is the
key and is the key right, And it looks different
for everyone, And so I'm interested in what the things
(15:05):
are that have helped you to shift your perspective and
reconnect with yourself in a way that makes you feel
like And obviously I don't I'm not saying every day,
because no one has every day filled with joy, But
what has brought you back to center and brought you
back to yourself in a way that has been helpful
and nourishing. Number one, staying off social media. Honestly, it
(15:29):
sounds very cliche, but to not have the energy of
everyone else and their projections being projected back onto you
is one of the most powerful things of all time.
So that was really Number one. To therapy. I grew
up in a very Arab and European family that therapy
(15:49):
was not a thing, and I was the first one
in my family to go to therapy. So that was
a big step forward that progressed kind of my whole
family's chance of healing because when everyone followed, which was
really enlightening for me to see how that domino effect
(16:09):
affected our family, which was really amazing. Also, my meditation
at night, my meditation in the morning, taking a walk, exercising,
making sure that I have my vitamins and all of
those things. I feel like we've heard that so many times,
and at this point, what I've realized, it's a cliche
for a reason, because it actually does want. It's a
cliche for a reason because of the fact that it works,
(16:33):
and it's something that when I started it um and
realized it wasn't as hard as everyone said it was,
it changed my life three sixty And once you start
to really understand meditation and comply with it almost and
take it in as a routine instead of when you
feelings that anxious, you just put one on and hope
(16:55):
for the best aid like a band aid. Like you
do it as an everyday routine to be able to
limit those days instead of just bandating over what you
hope might help, so when those times do come, you
understand how to actually take care of yourself. But honestly,
for me, living in New York, you walk outside and
(17:19):
there is every single walk of life that you could
ever see, families. You almost make up stories in your
head of what people are experiencing. It's my favorite thing
to do and I really do love to do that
and walk down the street. But the painful part of
it is majority of the people that we do see
in New York are going through things. They're going through
(17:41):
a lot this year. I just bought almost a thousand
codes just so I can go drop them off to
people because it's so brick outside, Like people just need
to feel a little bit supported and warm. Being of
service to me is not only my love language, but
what makes my literal world to go around. Those little
moments are what make me come out of the way
(18:06):
that I feel something. Yeah, you're so right about that,
And I think one of the dangers of being in
a negative mindset or being overwhelmed with depression is that
we isolate, and that cuts us off from humanity and
from other people. Absolutely to also look at yourself, not singularly.
(18:29):
We have a whole crew of people that are mentally unstable,
and I am good to be in that crew, and
I am happy to be in that crew because I
do find the people I connect with most when I
am in that crew. I might deal with things differently
than somebody else, and my life might be more impressive
from the outside than somebody else's. But also like there
(18:49):
are things that we're also we're dealing with that are
so similar that it almost makes you just feel more
connected to the world, to human beings in general. Human
interaction is genuinely the form of healing that I think
everybody needs to remember. God, I couldn't agree with you more.
I was literally saying that to my husband this morning.
(19:10):
And your friend Virgil recently passed, and you spent a
couple of days with your community and his community, and
collective grieving is so important to help process loss and sadness.
And as someone who is very empathetic, which you are,
(19:33):
I'm wondering how that experience was for you painful. I don't.
I am at a loss for words when it comes
to this passing. I almost just feel he's in Paris
working and his phones off, and I think that's how
(19:55):
a lot of us, a lot of his friends, my
friends are friends, have been dealing with this is for
a while was like out of sight, like we couldn't
deal with the thought of him being gone, but all
coming together and being able to celebrate his life in
a way that we used to celebrate all together. It
was really powerful because at the memorial we'd be smiling
(20:18):
all together and dancing and it would feel like he
was just hovering. He would feel like he was just
right on the other side, and we all felt that way,
and all of a sudden, I would look over and
my heart would drop and I would just start bawling
and realize, like that was just a fragment of my imagination.
And but the best part was that I had ten
(20:40):
people around me that felt the same way, and we
were able to just talk about stories and memories and
how much we loved him and why and why he
loved us and why we are actually also similar because
of the connection we have with him. And it was
really beautiful. And I know that I connected on a
different level with so many new people, old people that
I've and for so many years that I was able
(21:02):
to connect with again, And so I hope people felt
that same way about their experience with me. I've never
dealt with this kind of besides my grandmother, which was
the biggest loss for me a few years ago. Losing
a friend like this was just really hard to believe.
But I just think about his family, and it was
(21:24):
beautiful wife Shannon and their two kids, and I just
always hope that they know like they have aunties and
uncles surrounding them that go to different universes, like they
have hundreds of people that love them and that will
always support I know that v did that for a reason.
I know that he made his circles so wide that
(21:44):
his family would be supported forever, mentally, physically, in every
form of the word. And he really did that, So
we just I know that his time on this earth
was limited because of how much he has to do
up there, you know what I mean? And I never
knew that. I always believed in afterlife. I always believe
(22:07):
in reincarnation going somewhere else, but not to this extent
of how much I believe it. Knowing that our friend,
our brother Virgil is up there like literally painting sunsets
right now, do you know what I mean? And that's
genuinely how I feel about it, Like he has so
much work to do as an angel now and I
(22:28):
know that he's just he's up there, just like deejaying
life God needed help with a new art director. So
I think that's pretty much the way that I'm dealing
with this. And I realized I'm not super good at grief,
Like I don't go through all the steps because I
just you know, throw it to the back. But this one,
(22:51):
I really I went through the steps and I'm able
to now look at it in a different way and
know that there is life, but there's also death, and
it's it's the only inevitability, isn't it? That we are
bown and then we die and everything in between is
debatable and we don't know what's really going to happen.
That's the painful truth, honestly, and we all do need
(23:13):
to prepare for those moments of anyone around you passing.
But the thing about v and what we've all learned
from it is like the way that Virgil was a
person to every single person, and he made an impact
on everyone's life. And that's why him and I always
connected was that him and I are huggers. Like I
walk onto set, he walks onto set. I am hugging
(23:35):
every person that I see in my line of fire
until I start shooting. I go and speak to everybody.
I want to hear about stories. I want to hear
about their family, what their kids are doing today. Him
and I both really enjoyed that human interaction, and I
think that's why we got along. We're both libras too,
so we just really clicked with that. Before I start sobbing,
(24:00):
I just I miss him a lot, but I know
that he left us with so much, and it's funny.
I know the next few years he's going to be
dropping little little gems and hints and things, and that's
what keeps me excited. And it's just it's a hard
loss to be honest, but I know that there's a
(24:23):
reason for everything. And that's the worst way to yeah,
I mean, the worst way to put it, but it's
I don't know. I've gotten to the point where I
can't even explain myself over this. There are some things
that are just not really easy to put into words,
and this is one of them. I wanted to talk
to you a bit about creativity because whenever you and
(24:43):
I have spoken, you're so motivated and inspired by creativity.
In my spare time, I sit and I make decks.
That's all I do when I'm not working. I'm at
home in my computer on my laptops outside. I would
pull I have like hundreds because it's all that I
like to do when I'm at home. Every week I'm
in meetings and they just are like we've never had
(25:04):
somebody come in with a new deck every day. And
so I really that's my creative out of all of this.
When I even for work and for jobs, even if
they don't ask for it, I'm coming with the references
of what hair and makeup, and I have covers that
will be solely based on my decks that I make.
And it's just that's where I feel heard and seen,
(25:25):
like in my modeling part of all of this, because
I'm able to still give that you come and bring
your references, because when you can work with collaborators who
appreciate you bringing your perspective, you can make magical images. Yeah. Absolutely,
I also don't want to do it to offend. It's
really for my own joy. And so when people really
do react to it in a great way and they
(25:47):
do appreciate what I've done like that, just it's it
makes me just feel so much better. Like I always
say to my agent, I want to start a creative
agency because I just have to find so much joy
with building those decks and having people converse about them.
And when we get to set, we're able to really
have those conversations. I love that you bring that to
work with you. But I also wanted to ask you
(26:09):
if you've thought about any other forms of creativity. Yeah. Absolutely.
I have three collections I'm designing with separate companies, and
for that people to have a place where I'm able
to be creative and put all of my thoughts in
one place but also compartmentalize them, which is crazy and
a d h D brain can't really do that. And
(26:30):
so it was interesting to see how I was able to.
For this idea, I wanted to be all like this,
and for this idea, I want that to be a
different person, and for this idea, she's a different girl too. Right.
Who's your goal for each one? Right? And maybe they're
not all? They're not all. Are they aspects of you?
Or are they different goals? No? I mean it's what
I feel the world honestly wants. I envisioned these things,
(26:54):
and I find references and I'm able to put them
in order. And that's why it's also for girls and boys.
Like I don't design for one person, but I think
that it is interesting to look at how all of
that kind of comes together, because I do really think
about little details of things, and slowly, over time I'll
(27:18):
see them actually coming to life in magazines and this
and that, and I'm like, that's cool. You thought of
that six months ago. I thought about that six months ago.
And now it's coming into fruition. When is the first
thing coming out? When's the first collection coming out? Maybe
in the next six months, So hoping I can probably
give you more information in February because January is when
(27:40):
you know all of the meetings are going to start
happening again. Right now, I'm super focused on honestly, Ken.
So you invested into a company, a drinks company called Kin.
How did that come about? I didn't invest any money,
and I'm a partner now with my partner Jen, and
it's been Ken has been around for almost three and
(28:03):
a half years now. I've been on board for a
little over a year and a half, coming to too soon.
When I came on, it was a startup with just
my partner, and she's such a hard worker, Jen, She's amazing.
But it's not like I walked into a business that
was already fresh and done. We still are fundraising and
getting investors and I'm in those meetings every day. I'm
(28:24):
also a founder and it is wow. Is it a journey? Yeah?
For me? I was a consumer before I even started
with him, and I told myself years ago I would
never endure something that I didn't a hundred percent stand by.
I don't do those things on Instagram. That's important to
me to be able to keep that real illness online.
But basically, when I was really really down and dark
(28:44):
and I was taking gab every day, I was taking
all of these different supplements from my holistic doctor, I
found this drinkkin and it was a startup she had
just started. She's a genius. My partner Jen I found her.
I met after I took my first sip and it
brought me that energy without anxiety, and that's what I
(29:05):
always craved. But we walked in all both of us
with all of our crystal bracelets, talking about the moon,
and I was like, I need this woman in my life,
regardless of if we work together or not. The universe
brought us together for a reason. And now I'm concocting
my first product and the deck that for that, Oh
(29:27):
my god, I want to see that deck. That's fun.
And then I also have like my merch deck that
I'm going to do in collaboration with a friend of mine.
She's an incredible artist and so there's all those different
sides of it as well that are super interesting. But
yesterday I'm in a business meeting for three and a
half hours, and for me, I also realize using your
(29:47):
brain makes your brain work better, and that also stems
from mental health too, and being able to builds your
self esteem because you realize, oh, I'm capable of thinking
this and brain and brainstorming like this and coming out
with solutions and building plans and ideating, and that builds
self esteem because then we feel capable. But also knowing
(30:10):
that if I am not on those calls, if you're
not showing up and and if I'm not showing up fully,
this thing is going to go under. That's what's super
interesting about it is we really do that work and
it is really rewarding because it's not just always going
to be the glitz and the glamour and just cash
(30:30):
coming in, and so that work that we put in
is very rewarding and it does really help again with
my mental If you don't use it, you lose it.
Let's talk about writing, because I am sure that you
have some woods in you. For me, with writing, it
was never something I just don't get how poets and
writers and music artists like to put your whole soul
(30:57):
out there and just allow will to have opinions on
it is so wild to me. It takes a lot
of strength, and I just really appreciate that from those apprehension, No,
not apprehension. Do you have apprehension about doing it yourself.
I have apprehension about doing it myself, but those all
of those people inspire me. Is what I will say.
(31:20):
I've written since I was, you know, thirteen, But what
I write is really personal and it really is really
from my heart, and it's emotional, and maybe in ten
years from now I'll be able to get over that
being afraid like that. But I don't know. I'm just
not confident enough. And we don't owe anyone our work.
(31:42):
Like I have things that I've written twenty years ago
or ten years ago that maybe one day I'll do
something with maybe I won't. The important pot is that
you're just expressing. It's another way to express yourself and
connect with yourself, which ultimately is the goal. Right Absolutely,
one of the things you're talking about, whether it's working
(32:03):
with your businesses, designing your drink, your meditation, taking time
to be quiet and be in nature and be around horses,
being with your friends. Everything you talked about is about
connecting to yourself and all the different aspects of you.
And that's the kind of overarching desire that I hear
(32:25):
coming from you. Absolutely. I think the future of writing.
I love writing in general, being able to write stories
and broadening the spectrum of what writing can beat for me.
And the Artist's way really helped me with that, which
I think we spoke about before. I love that book
Julia Cameron. Honestly, She's amazing and for me like that
kind of open this whole kind of worms of being
(32:48):
able to find um almost different inspirations within myself to
write about instead of just always being about pain or
love or whatever I like. I also realized I love
writing about the gut. I literally love writing about food health.
I love writing about brain health. I love writing about
(33:10):
daily life with vitamin's doctors and living with line. You
live with line disease, and you really knowledgeable about the
things and the tools that have helped you. That's the thing,
right when you're sick with something, you have to become
your doctor in a wad way. You have to become
like your number one patient and really educate yourself. Yeah,
(33:32):
I have like new I V doctors that come in
all the time, and those conversations to me about the
things that I've learned. Crazy sometimes these are helpful tools
that we can eventually spread out to the world and
help on a different level, almost on a holistic level,
because that's what will heal you more so than an
(33:54):
antibiotic or just like hoping for the best. Ultimately. I
don't know if you're finding this, but I know for me,
all of the things in my life that I thought
were going to be my downfall ultimately were the things
that helped shape me and gave me insight, integrity, wisdom,
(34:14):
growth in a way that I never would have had
if I hadn't have dealt with that period of suffering
or health challenge or whatever it was. And that's the
good news. Yeah, But Amanda, honestly, like the thing about that,
I think about it all of the time. Where I
at seventeen, I was either going to go to Parsons
(34:36):
for photography and film or lived with my best friend
yes me and in San Francisco and go to USF
for film and ride horses. And I was close to
home in San Francisco, and I was going to, you know,
continue to help the barn I was riding at and
just live that life. And I was like perfectly fine
with that. And when my line hit me really badly
when I was sixteen, and I I wasn't able to
(35:01):
ride my horse anymore. By seventeen, I wasn't riding, which
was like my one the thing that I love the most,
which I said before. And photography, like in high school,
I never left the house without my camera. I developed
all my film in the dark room, and I love you.
So those two passions for me were like just something
that I really took with me. But I realized that
(35:23):
if my line didn't get as bad in high school,
when I was making those massive life decisions of what
am I going to do with my life, I would
have completely just stayed in in California, riding my horses,
doing photography, having like my little photography website I used
to have, and called it a day. But instead I
(35:44):
like pushed myself moved to New York. Had to make
a huge decision to go to Parsons instead. And it
was a conscious decision I made, but also so subconscious
because I didn't really lies like the life that I
was almost setting up for myself. Isn't it amazing how
it turns super interesting? I mean that is the foundation
(36:07):
for faith because often I don't know about you, but
for me, I cannot see at the time that there
is some kind of divine plan, and then when I
look back, Oh, that's why that happened. Yeah, exactly. And
I always say everything happens for a reason. Again me
being naive obviously, but I really do believe that in
(36:28):
some ways, except for death, that still doesn't make a
lot of sense to me. But I'm just honestly really needed.
This is like my best Christmas present for me. You're
so sweet. You're so sweet. I wish that I was
sitting close to you so I could just give you
a hot to hot hug. I'm squeezing you from here.
Thank you, Bella, thank you, thank you, honestly, thanks for
(36:49):
showing up and bringing your beautiful open hot Thank you,
thank you, thank you. This is VS Voices, a brand new,
original old podcasts series by Victoria's Secret. Listen here or
wherever you get your podcasts. M
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