Resmaa Menakem On Taraji P. Henson Running Away While Laughing, Making A Children's Book + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up. It's Way Up with Angela Yee. I'm Angela
Yee and we have a really special guest and I
know you're going to love this conversation today. Rasma Medicam
is here first time on Way Up.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yes, my first time, my first time.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You know. But I met you on the Breakfast Club previously,
and you also did your book. We did a book club,
yes right, event at my coffee shop back Cup, which
I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And I'm still drinking the coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Oh I like to hear that. And I remember that
that event. People, we just had so many questions. You know,
people were crying at the event. So I do appreciate
you for that. But let's talk about who Resma Menicem is.
Just for people who are listening. What would you say
when somebody was like, oh, what do you do?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Primarily I am a author right now. I am a
clinical of being a clinical social worker specializing in racialized
trauma and violence. I've been doing this work for thirty
five years. Yes you have, yeah, yeah, and so a
lot did a lot of stuff with trauma, a lot
(01:03):
of stuff with couples.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Now, restnad when you talk about racialized trauma and You've
been doing this work for thirty five years. What's different
now than it was thirty five years ago because I
feel like we have a lot more conversations. I feel
like we went from this being something taboo to kind
of talk about, to it being widely talked about, to
it again being pushed back on and kind of like, Okay,
(01:26):
get over it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, we don't have we really don't have the container
created that allows us to really talk about race and
the ways that it needs to be talked about. So
what happens is that it becomes the flavor of the moment,
and then people talk about it, and then once they
can't tolerate it anymore, they say, we just need to
get We don't need to talk about trauma and how
(01:48):
trauma shows up in couples, and how trauma shows up
between black folks, and how trauma shows up between people,
and how trauma shows up.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
In the environment.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I mean, you know, one of the things I've been
talking about lately, Sibling, is this idea that you know,
we still we're still on the tails of of COVID,
like like like people are walking around here acting like
it's it's normal to be as tired as we are.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Have you noticed have you noticed like that.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Man, people definitely have some long term COVID effects.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It took me a long time after I had it
to be able to breathe properly and to not be
out of breath, like walking down the black and going
up the stairs and do a simple things right.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And and as soon as they said, hey, y'all, y'all
can take your masks off, everybody's like, okay, it's good.
But what you're starting to notice is that, especially in
our community, we're starting to come face to face with
the with a lot of the kind of stress responses. Right,
So we're we're noticing that there's more a lot more
we're noticing a lot more depression. We're noticing a lot
(02:53):
more anxiety. We're noticing that we can't quite even if
we go on vacation, we still are tired on vacation.
And that's because what we're dealing with is not just momentary.
It's historical, and there's a charge to it. It is intergenerational,
it is persistently institutional, and then it's our own personal
(03:16):
stuff and that's the weight of it. That's why we
can't blow it off like we used to. That's why
the overriding is not doing what it used to do,
Like we used to just work ourselves in override and
get through it, and that's not covering anymore. And so
when I talk about racialized trauma, I'm always trying to
get us to understand that it is not about a
personal defect in us. It really is about what happens
(03:40):
and continues to happen to our people, and we have
to create things and communal ways of dealing with those pieces.
It's not just an individual.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Thing, you know. I want to ask you about something
that had went viral right to Ragi was talking about
how as black people we can run when we ath,
and she talked about how that is something that is
also racialized trauma, so to say, because we weren't allowed
(04:09):
to laugh, and a lot of people were like, what
is she talking about? But then there were some people
that were like, no, she's absolutely correct, So can you
break that down.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Absolutely so so sore. There is this this kind of
phrase that I use is that just the march of
time can decontextualize trauma. So what I mean by that
is that trauma decontextualized untended to over time, can in
a person can look like personality. Trauma untended to in
(04:42):
a family over time can look like family traits. Trauma
untended to in a people can.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Look like culture.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Right if you if something like if me and you,
if me and you are cool, when we're friends and
something happened, somebody walks through that door in her me badly, right,
and then next week you call and check up on me,
and I'm saying says I'm good, I'm good. And then
you see me the week after that and you and
I'm acting strange. You would immediately contextualize. Let me call Maria,
(05:14):
let me call his wife and see because just last
week I saw that happen to him, so we got
to get Reslus some help. Right, that's contextualizing it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
What if you never saw it and I'm acting crazy though,
right right now it looks like my personality. What if
what if my reflexes like every time you say something,
I got more energy than this than I should have
in a particular thing. Right, you say one thing and
I'm hyped about it. Those are the things that over
time look like personality but are actually trauma responses. I'll
(05:42):
give you another one, and we and we we make
it part of culture. So I remember my mother on
Saturdays cleaning the house like incessantly. And if you didn't,
and if you didn't get up at seven o'clock in
the morning and help her, and if you're supposed to
(06:03):
wash the dishes and you left a spoon in the sink,
you're getting it right. What we don't realize is that
many people, many many of our people, had become adults early.
We had to take on more responsibility early as children.
So now that the response to that is or this
(06:25):
is just how black people do, when it actually might
be a response to trauma, it might be a response
to the things that happened to us, and then we
got organized around it. Now it looks like, oh, that's
just who black people are, that's just.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
What we do.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Here's another one. Many of us can tell who what
mood our parents is are in. Could we when we
were kids, We could tell what mood they were in
by their footsteps?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Let me mind my business today.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
You see, that's right. And then what happens is that
we get organized around it, and then when we get older,
it looks like part of our personality or I can hear,
I know what you're thinking already, I know what. You're right,
and those are the types of things that over time,
as they become decontextualized, we just think it's just culture.
So Taraji was absolutely right, there are these things that
(07:20):
we have to begin to interrogate not from a place
of defectiveness, but from a place of healing and knowing,
so we can have more room to work with these pieces.
Not about context, that's exactly right. It's not about defect.
A lot of times when this stuff happens is we
put the defect inside of us instead of what happened
(07:40):
and continues to happen to us.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You know, resme, I've read two of your books, and
now I have to read Monsters in Love, which is
a book that you had put out previously almost ten
years ago, most years ago, and then now you've redone
it and we'll get to that in a second. But
now you also just based off of your grandmother's hands,
the stories from my grandmother's hands, you have a children's book,
all right, Now, what made you decide that it's time
to make that into a children's bo.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
That's that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So so.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Actually, a lot of black women is what.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Made me is that beauty. By the way, art in
here is beautiful and amazing, like when you go through
it and we get to learn some about the languages.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
That's right, so so so so the thing about the art,
let me just talk about brother Leework Campbell. Brother Leework
Campbell is a very famous Black artist, and that brother
all of the all of the things in here are
not illustrations. These are all painting.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I feel like we need these hanging in our homes.
That's what I look at this like real, like this
in my house and pay a tent of money.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
That's right. Yeah, he painted all those That's why it's
such that the the kind of texture of it is
so rich. But really a lot of black women kept
asking me when I was going to do something for kids,
because they'd like to have something to read to kids.
(09:02):
A lot of black women read my grandmother's hands, and
so whenever I would do talks around the world, people
would come and people would be like, mostly black women
would say is there something and I would reject it.
I would be like, well that my grandmother's hands are
so dense, I don't know how I do it. And
then I just started I just let it be for
(09:22):
a while, and then it started to come to me like, okay,
maybe I could just do lines of it.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And then it made so much sense when I was
reading through it, you know, for to be able to
sit there, because that also is a great way to
open up conversation. That's exactly right, you know, like just
a little bit of it if you want to just
please please, you go right ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So the first line in the book is called it says,
my grandmother's hands picked cotton. And then there's a painting
of really is from my grandmother's hands, who was a
very thin woman, but she had thick pads in the
middle of her fingers. And that's because at the age
of four, her daddy was a sharecropper, and so when
(10:05):
she would pick the cotton at four, it would rip
her hands out right. And so this particular, uh part
of the book would I So, so along with the
book an album, a download album download. So there's there's
an album that goes along with the book and and
also in the book. So the book actually comes out
(10:27):
for sale in September, and people will get a download.
They're probably gonna burn it in Florida, but they'll they'll
get it they'll get it. So so so the music
actually is what also helps to deepen the the words,
(10:48):
because each line has a whole song to it that's amazing,
and so you can play it and you play it
with your kids, and then as you're talking, as you're reading,
and thoughts of your own pieces start to come up,
and that makes it rich for when you're talking and
you're reading it to your.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Life, what did you decide that you would have an
album that was going to go along with the But
so all of my books have albums to it, Okay,
all of them.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Have so so I always so one of the things
that I want people to do is I want people
to find a way into what I'm trying to say
any way that they can. So, whether it's art, whether
it's books, whether it's music, whatever it is i'm trying.
I'm writing, I'm writing a screenplay right now. I'm writing
a play right now. So so so what I'm trying
to do is create kind of this network of of
(11:37):
of of art and books and and and and talks
and everything. So when when our people start to begin
to say, okay, maybe I need to address these particular
pieces that my work is something that they can just
almost like lay with and be with and play with
(11:58):
and in whatever way that they need to.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And you know, we talk about this book becoming available
in September, and then I made a little joke about Florida.
But that's real, No, that's real, real. So talk to
me about what your thoughts on with these books being
banned now and the attack so so on history and facts.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That's exactly right. So so I will tell you.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So. So I always think whenever I'm I'm writing, I'm
always thinking in kind of like a fugitive way, like
like I'm almost thinking like like Harriet Tubman, like there
the we we knew, our people knew that if we
were out there telling everybody that we were trying to read,
that we would die, right that that that we would
(12:40):
be murdered to read, to learn to write, and so
and so what we had to do is we had
to develop this kind of fugitive ethos this fugitive philosophy. Right,
so you shut up, let me, I'm gonna tell you
what this is. Don't you go back there, right and
and and so one of the things that I had
thought about this book is that in our community.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
We have L B.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
G t q I A plus people in our community.
And one of the things that would would make me
happy is if I started to see on the internet
drag queens and trans people that look like us reading
to kids that they love and reading the kids that
are important to them. Because if we're going to change
(13:24):
what's happening for us and our people, it's not going
to be because we ask for permission. It's going to
be because we do it right, and we don't and
and and and we that, and we go to the
cracks and we accentuate the cracks so something else new
can emerge. That's the only way we can do it.
So for me, places like Florida, places like Texas, places
(13:49):
like America, those places are ripe for possibility for our people.
And I'm trying to I'm trying to write things and
do things that when our people come to a place
to where they say, yeah, I want to do something else,
that I have stuff that they can actually utilize. So
I actually just launched a thing online called black Octopuses.
(14:13):
Yeah black yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's
it's there now. It's just it's just lost no Monday.
And so that's a place where I'm going to be
doing a lot of live stuff. I'm going to be
doing workshops, I'm going to be doing things like, Uh,
I have a platform where people who want to know
(14:36):
about racialized trauma and want to do it in community
that they can do it. It's a subscriber uh platform
and that just launched. And so I'm, like I said,
I'm trying all of these different types. So it's Black
Octopus Society dot com.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
What do you think about engaging with people who are
opposite of how you think, like say Donald Trump or
you know, we see people saying you got to have
these conversations with people. What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Can I be yeah, I want you to be honest.
The black woman's body has this country has always had
unfettered access to every idea, every orifice, every understanding of
the black woman's body. Like it is relatively new sibling
(15:28):
that me and you could be sitting here talking the
way that we're talking and be somewhat sure that there's
not a lunch party outside waiting for us. That's a
new occurrence, right, right, and so and so black bodies
have been conditioned to believe that we are to be
of service to white bodies are we need to make
(15:49):
them comfortable. We need to calm them down, We need
to make sure that they don't get too.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
We have to forget, we have to forget.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I'm not in that place. I am in a place
where uh, we're doctor King, who was a revolutionary at
this time, where he said that he is afraid that
he has led his people into a burning building and
speaking about America, right, and and we override what might
(16:18):
be best for us so much that we want to
expose ourselves to people who want to murder us, who
don't like us, who don't whose philosophy is that we
are a different species.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
What about it? Those people are us too, because there's
also black people that.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Absolutely we even't just we've drank the water too, right.
This is what I'm talking about racialized trauma, is that
some of us have some of the people that look
like me, and you have decided that it's better to
be on the side of the oppressor than it is
to continue to fight for liberation in free.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And I think for some people it's also financial reason.
But that's I'm gonna get some money from these people
because I'm contrarians. So that, and I'm on their team.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I'm on their team.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
But this is why what you do is so important.
This is why what I do is so important. This
is why us being able to say, Look, if it's
a choice between reaching out to you knowing that you
don't rock with me, or a choice between cultivating a
network with people that could potentially do something to make
(17:25):
the changes, I'm putting my efforts into that because over
here I've seen my wife, I've seen my daughter, I've
seen my uncles. I'm seen my grandfather be weathered by
interacting with people like you, and I am not going
to allow that to happen to me.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
You know. I also, like I said earlier, I know
there's so many things we could be talking about, but
master's in love now. I saw that you actually rewarded
some of that book as a lot of it, And
so talk to me about when you originally put this
book out in twenty fifteen and then reimagining it for
twenty twenty two when it came back out.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, you know, in twenty fifteen, I was a different person, right,
I was a different person as a husband, I was
a different person as a parent. I was a different
person I had just been I had just gotten back
from Afghanistan after two years. So I was in Afghanistan
from twenty eleven to twenty thirteen. Twenty and fifteen is
(18:22):
when I actually landed. So I came home in twenty thirteen,
but because of all of the trauma, all of the
things that were going on, I didn't actually land to
about twenty fifties. Yeah, it was it was a rough go,
but but I had family. I had my wife, my kids,
a community that were really holding me through through that
(18:42):
whole the whole time. But so when I wrote Monsters
in Love, I was also doing my private practice and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So I particular way of.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Thinking about how to do the work right or when
I will. Actually the first book was when it originally
came out, was called rock the boat okay, And you
know how everybody said, don't rock the boat right.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
In relationships, you want to try to not are you
keep us moved?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
You want to, you want to appease everybody. You want
to you want to find the middle ground. You want
to you want to compromise, and stuff like that. And
what I had, what I had learned and what I
watched both in my own life and my own marriage
and in couples is that in actuality, some things need
to be ground on. Some things take years before, like
(19:30):
like like you know how people say things like well
we need to agree to disagree.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's cool if.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You're talking about dinner. But you can't agree to disagree
about whether or not you want to have.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
A baby, right right.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You can't agree to disagree about if you're spending up
all the money.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Like why would I get pregnant? He'll change his mind?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yes, yes, no, There ain't no greed to disagree about
the important things in life. The reason why there's such
why there's such pressure and those types of things, is
because that pressure is design to make you grow up.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Now, you may.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Grow up with that person, or you may grow up
away from that person, but the pressure is relationships are
people growing machines. And so in twenty fifteen, I had
a particular understanding of that. When I rewrote it, I
had over years begun to kind of work with things
(20:24):
in terms of my own maturity, work with things in
terms of my understanding about race, work with things in
terms of my understanding about sex and sexuality, work with
my own homophobia, work with my own trans pieces, because
I have a lot of the couples. If you notice
in the book, or once you read the book, there's
a lot of couples in there in which you can't
I purposely wanted you to not be able to tell
(20:46):
whether or not it was a heterosexual couple, or a
trans couple, or a homosexual couple, because I wanted you
to get to the conundrums that happened in any relationship
when you're trying to deal with another human being. So
so so so, the difference in twenty fifteen and Monsters
in Love Now was that there's so much more that
(21:08):
I've learned about how to work with couples, and so
much learn more that I've learned as a husband and
as a partner.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You know, that's I'm glad that you said that, because
sometimes people will look at somebody like you and the
books that you've written and think that, Okay, he's just
you know, we're all works in progress, all of us. Yeah.
So just because you're an expert in a you know,
a clinical social worker, like an expert in a field,
that doesn't mean you're not still learning and growing and
changing and developing always.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
And that's and that's why I say it's people growing, right,
Like we we try and find ways around stuff that
ain't supposed to be found ways around. You're supposed to
go through it, and you're supposed to go through it
with other people, right, and and all of the little
tricks in finding the secret and getting the tip and
stuff like that. Usually that works for the lower level things.
(21:57):
But when you're talking about money, sex, kids, and laws,
When you're talking about those things, it's very hard. When
you're talking about I want to spend more time with
you and your partner saying well, I got to hustle.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Right, I have to work. How do you think we've
got this house?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Exactly right?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
These are the things that are not supposed to be acquiesced.
You're supposed to grind on that with each other and
then see if you can develop the conditioning and tempering
to actually want and reach for more.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right, you talk about emotional stalemates, and that can happen.
And I always do feel like the best relationships are
people who are coming into a situation as an individual
that is complete in themselves, Like you know how some
people will be like that's my better half, or you know,
we kind of come together and that's how we do things,
and I rely on him and you should be able
(22:56):
to do that at times. But the best thing is
when we're both holes and everybody's it's not half and half,
we're seventy and thirty. We're both a hundred and one
hundred or ninety eight and you know, just depending on
where you are at that time.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
But most of us aren't ninety eight ninety eight.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, most of us.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Most of us like the idea, the idea that this
is about better half and the two sholl become one
and all that different type of stuff is part of
what gets us in trouble is because we expect our
partners to almost be our surrogate parents. One of the
things I learned by working with couples is that most
(23:37):
of us go into significant relationships at the same level
that our parents were able to reach.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Okay, Okay, So I'm scared, but.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We should be right because because what it does is
it straightens us and makes us go Okay. There are
some pieces here that I haven't interrogated because my mama's
mama's mama's daddy' daddy he's never interrogated. So now it
just looks like how we do stuff right, so and
so and so relationship.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So I'll give you another one.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So do you remember, like when you get into a
relationship with somebody. There are times where you have been
in a relationship and you go, man, I'm coming into
this relationship. I got my feet underneath me. I'm good.
I'm ninety eight percent right right. And then I got
(24:32):
another person that's ninety eight percent right.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
We're doing good. As long as he's at.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
His apartment and I'm at my apartment.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
We got space, we got our space.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We're good.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And then you get the bright idea to move in
with each other.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Somebody told me a long time ago that that ended
his He was like, whatever you do. You know, things
were great until I decided to move in.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
With That's the people growing machine. Pieces that when you're
out here and you're just doing your own thing, you
have infinite choices. But the moment I say I choose you,
my choices become limited. And when our choices become limited,
we get right up against our adult development. Just saying
I choose you, just saying me nothing's going wrong, just
(25:19):
saying let's.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Baby, let's let's let's get an apartment together.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Just that makes it so you're up against your own development, and.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Then those hard conversations about financing, right, because that does
come up because now we got to know what's your
credit scoring. But some people will tell you those are
the things you need to ask super early on, even
before you commit to somebody.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And what I will tell you is, even if you
ask it, you're still gonna have to deal with this, right,
even if you get all even if you ask all
of those questions, even if you even if they say, baby,
I'm I'm I'm an eight twenty my credit score is
at eight twenty five.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Okay, we say and what I'm going to say is
is that there is somebody in the relationship that is
more of a high desire person for Certainly in all relationships,
there's a person that's a high desire for something in
a low.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Desire for something. There's a person that high has higher
desire for sex and lower desire for sex. There's the
person that has a higher desire to spend money lower desires.
That's a person that has a lie.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I know it's what I am you see to me.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
But but but that itself is going to create a
conundrum in the relationship.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Because it's also do we keep the same bank account?
You know, it is financial literacy months. You know, I'm
a fan of let's put for the bills and everything
in one account, and then we have our separate accounts
for other things that we want to take care of.
You know something else. I'm glad you're here today, and
I wanted to bring this up. I wanted to talk
about Angel Reyes, right, and what Emmanuel ought to have
(26:49):
to say about her. But you know, basically, she's amazing
as an athlete. You know, she's decided she's going to
go into the w NBA. But she did you know,
after the earlye eight laws, she got a lot of
people weighing in on her becoming emotional, and Emmanuel Auto said,
you can't act like the big bad wolf and then
(27:10):
cry like courage the cowardly dog. And so people had
a lot of things to say about that. And she
talked about all the vicious online abuse that she's been
getting as an athlete. She's competitive, she plays the sport amazing.
I want to know what your thoughts are on the
criticism that she's been getting and just even her as
(27:32):
because I think everybody's got a lot of eyes now
on women's basketball, which is a great positive thing, but
women do end up getting judged way differently than men do,
especially when it comes to them being competitive.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah. So I just got back from Ghana a couple
of months ago, and I took some before I went,
I took some dirt from both my grandmother's graves and
did a ceramok what they call a welcoming ceremony over there,
(28:03):
whereas basically the returning people, Uh, we go over there
and we and then they and then we can bring
pieces of our of people who couldn't.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Make it, ancestors.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And one of the things that came to me very
clearly was this idea that the hardness that it took
for people to survive this craziness is no longer useful. Actually,
where all the strength is right now is in us
cultivating more softness with each other, right and more softness
(28:38):
in ourselves, and more softness in the ways that we move.
And so to to to to look at this, we
talk about the adultification of black women, in particular, to
look at this beautiful black woman who is a top
athlete in college, has a very bright future, and to
(28:59):
compare her to a cowardly dog, because she is a
because she is expression. Emotion is the idea around hardness.
We don't. Black women aren't supposed to have a whole
breath of emotional content, Like she's not supposed to cry.
(29:21):
She's always supposed to be hard. She's always supposed to
be the big bad woolf right. And what I want
to say is is that the more us, the more
of us that can see that and say, gnosis, cry,
do what you express the full emotions of human beings, right,
And anybody that whether they look like us or not,
(29:43):
anybody that comes at you, I want you to know
we love you as a community. We love what you're doing,
We love how you get down, make your mistakes.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Everybody is two and dew because of you. The greatest
numbers ever ever. And she works hard, like they said,
you know a lot of her teammates and people who
also play have come to her defense like she's always
at practice. She works really hard. And even her saying that, like,
you know, over being over sexualized, and she was. I
saw somebody in the comments say, well, say she did
(30:17):
a you know, swimsuit shoot or whatever. So what do
you expect. I don't. I did not correlate those two
things at all at all. A swimsuit does not mean
that it's time that you're given permission to sexualize a person.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
And even if it did, what business is that of
probably a man who said that the idea, this is
what I'm saying, that we do not as black bodies,
and as black women in particular, Black women do not
need permission any longer. Stop looking and stop asking for permission.
(30:53):
This structure, the structure only has value to us in
the way only only he sees us as valuable, in
the ways that they can use us to produce something.
And what I want to say is to this, sister Reese,
is that you are much more valuable than that basketball.
(31:14):
You are much more valuable than what what what these
writers are saying. And I want you to hear us
as loud as the critics say. I love you, I
love I love you for you. I love you because
you're a beautiful black woman. You are doing things and
even if you weren't doing things right now, I still
(31:36):
love you. This we we we are so hard on
black women that that and this is what I mean
that we have to start to reclaim the softer pieces
of ourselves. That is actually the future. The future for
us right now is reclaiming the softness, not the hardness,
(31:57):
not trying to be like men, not trying to be
like When I say trying to be like men, I'm.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
The stereotype, the stereotype.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Of Listen, more and more black men right now are
unlive in themselves.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Right Wait, I was I thought you were saying something else. Yeah, no,
that's awful, But that's.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Because we can no longer deal with this hardness as
the only way of expressing ourselves.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Because sometimes when men express themselves or they cry, they
get told that they're being soft, they get told they're sassy.
That's been a big conversation like.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Being you know, you know, all that different type of stuff.
And it is to control not just black men, but
control the expression of what it means to be a man.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, right, all right, well listen, I know we could
go on, and I know you'll be back because the
book comes down in September, the children's book, The Stories
on My Grandmother's Hands, also the album that's coming along
with it, and people can get the vinyl.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
They can get the vinyl on my web dot com
or go to Black Octopus soociety dot Com.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I know you're going to be doing some amazing things
too for the launch of the book.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, well one amazing thing. I'm come
back here all right.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Because I know there's gonna be so many things happening
in this world for us to catch up on, because
you have great commentary just even on current events, for
people to be able to understand and relate the stories
from your books and the things that you're telling us
to what's happening in the world. So I appreciate you
for that. Thank you, all right, well, thank you so much. ReSm. Menican.
And you can also get the Quaking of America, you know,
you can get my Grandmother's hands, and you can also
(33:34):
get the book that I'm going to be picking up
next because I want to make sure that I read
this as well. So Master's in Love, all right, It's
way up
What's up. It's Way Up with Angela Yee. I'm Angela
Yee and we have a really special guest and I
know you're going to love this conversation today. Rasma Medicam
is here first time on Way Up.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yes, my first time, my first time.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You know. But I met you on the Breakfast Club previously,
and you also did your book. We did a book club,
yes right, event at my coffee shop back Cup, which
I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And I'm still drinking the coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Oh I like to hear that. And I remember that
that event. People, we just had so many questions. You know,
people were crying at the event. So I do appreciate
you for that. But let's talk about who Resma Menicem is.
Just for people who are listening. What would you say
when somebody was like, oh, what do you do?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Primarily I am a author right now. I am a
clinical of being a clinical social worker specializing in racialized
trauma and violence. I've been doing this work for thirty
five years. Yes you have, yeah, yeah, and so a
lot did a lot of stuff with trauma, a lot
(01:03):
of stuff with couples.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Now, restnad when you talk about racialized trauma and You've
been doing this work for thirty five years. What's different
now than it was thirty five years ago because I
feel like we have a lot more conversations. I feel
like we went from this being something taboo to kind
of talk about, to it being widely talked about, to
it again being pushed back on and kind of like, Okay,
(01:26):
get over it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, we don't have we really don't have the container
created that allows us to really talk about race and
the ways that it needs to be talked about. So
what happens is that it becomes the flavor of the moment,
and then people talk about it, and then once they
can't tolerate it anymore, they say, we just need to
get We don't need to talk about trauma and how
(01:48):
trauma shows up in couples, and how trauma shows up
between black folks, and how trauma shows up between people,
and how trauma shows up.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
In the environment.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I mean, you know, one of the things I've been
talking about lately, Sibling, is this idea that you know,
we still we're still on the tails of of COVID,
like like like people are walking around here acting like
it's it's normal to be as tired as we are.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Have you noticed have you noticed like that.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Man, people definitely have some long term COVID effects.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It took me a long time after I had it
to be able to breathe properly and to not be
out of breath, like walking down the black and going
up the stairs and do a simple things right.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And and as soon as they said, hey, y'all, y'all
can take your masks off, everybody's like, okay, it's good.
But what you're starting to notice is that, especially in
our community, we're starting to come face to face with
the with a lot of the kind of stress responses. Right,
So we're we're noticing that there's more a lot more
we're noticing a lot more depression. We're noticing a lot
(02:53):
more anxiety. We're noticing that we can't quite even if
we go on vacation, we still are tired on vacation.
And that's because what we're dealing with is not just momentary.
It's historical, and there's a charge to it. It is intergenerational,
it is persistently institutional, and then it's our own personal
(03:16):
stuff and that's the weight of it. That's why we
can't blow it off like we used to. That's why
the overriding is not doing what it used to do,
Like we used to just work ourselves in override and
get through it, and that's not covering anymore. And so
when I talk about racialized trauma, I'm always trying to
get us to understand that it is not about a
personal defect in us. It really is about what happens
(03:40):
and continues to happen to our people, and we have
to create things and communal ways of dealing with those pieces.
It's not just an individual.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Thing, you know. I want to ask you about something
that had went viral right to Ragi was talking about
how as black people we can run when we ath,
and she talked about how that is something that is
also racialized trauma, so to say, because we weren't allowed
(04:09):
to laugh, and a lot of people were like, what
is she talking about? But then there were some people
that were like, no, she's absolutely correct, So can you
break that down.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Absolutely so so sore. There is this this kind of
phrase that I use is that just the march of
time can decontextualize trauma. So what I mean by that
is that trauma decontextualized untended to over time, can in
a person can look like personality. Trauma untended to in
(04:42):
a family over time can look like family traits. Trauma
untended to in a people can.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Look like culture.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Right if you if something like if me and you,
if me and you are cool, when we're friends and
something happened, somebody walks through that door in her me badly, right,
and then next week you call and check up on me,
and I'm saying says I'm good, I'm good. And then
you see me the week after that and you and
I'm acting strange. You would immediately contextualize. Let me call Maria,
(05:14):
let me call his wife and see because just last
week I saw that happen to him, so we got
to get Reslus some help. Right, that's contextualizing it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
What if you never saw it and I'm acting crazy though,
right right now it looks like my personality. What if
what if my reflexes like every time you say something,
I got more energy than this than I should have
in a particular thing. Right, you say one thing and
I'm hyped about it. Those are the things that over
time look like personality but are actually trauma responses. I'll
(05:42):
give you another one, and we and we we make
it part of culture. So I remember my mother on
Saturdays cleaning the house like incessantly. And if you didn't,
and if you didn't get up at seven o'clock in
the morning and help her, and if you're supposed to
(06:03):
wash the dishes and you left a spoon in the sink,
you're getting it right. What we don't realize is that
many people, many many of our people, had become adults early.
We had to take on more responsibility early as children.
So now that the response to that is or this
(06:25):
is just how black people do, when it actually might
be a response to trauma, it might be a response
to the things that happened to us, and then we
got organized around it. Now it looks like, oh, that's
just who black people are, that's just.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
What we do.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Here's another one. Many of us can tell who what
mood our parents is are in. Could we when we
were kids, We could tell what mood they were in
by their footsteps?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Let me mind my business today.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
You see, that's right. And then what happens is that
we get organized around it, and then when we get older,
it looks like part of our personality or I can hear,
I know what you're thinking already, I know what. You're right,
and those are the types of things that over time,
as they become decontextualized, we just think it's just culture.
So Taraji was absolutely right, there are these things that
(07:20):
we have to begin to interrogate not from a place
of defectiveness, but from a place of healing and knowing,
so we can have more room to work with these pieces.
Not about context, that's exactly right. It's not about defect.
A lot of times when this stuff happens is we
put the defect inside of us instead of what happened
(07:40):
and continues to happen to us.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You know, resme, I've read two of your books, and
now I have to read Monsters in Love, which is
a book that you had put out previously almost ten
years ago, most years ago, and then now you've redone
it and we'll get to that in a second. But
now you also just based off of your grandmother's hands,
the stories from my grandmother's hands, you have a children's book,
all right, Now, what made you decide that it's time
to make that into a children's bo.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
That's that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So so.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Actually, a lot of black women is what.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Made me is that beauty. By the way, art in
here is beautiful and amazing, like when you go through
it and we get to learn some about the languages.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
That's right, so so so so the thing about the art,
let me just talk about brother Leework Campbell. Brother Leework
Campbell is a very famous Black artist, and that brother
all of the all of the things in here are
not illustrations. These are all painting.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I feel like we need these hanging in our homes.
That's what I look at this like real, like this
in my house and pay a tent of money.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
That's right. Yeah, he painted all those That's why it's
such that the the kind of texture of it is
so rich. But really a lot of black women kept
asking me when I was going to do something for kids,
because they'd like to have something to read to kids.
(09:02):
A lot of black women read my grandmother's hands, and
so whenever I would do talks around the world, people
would come and people would be like, mostly black women
would say is there something and I would reject it.
I would be like, well that my grandmother's hands are
so dense, I don't know how I do it. And
then I just started I just let it be for
(09:22):
a while, and then it started to come to me like, okay,
maybe I could just do lines of it.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And then it made so much sense when I was
reading through it, you know, for to be able to
sit there, because that also is a great way to
open up conversation. That's exactly right, you know, like just
a little bit of it if you want to just
please please, you go right ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So the first line in the book is called it says,
my grandmother's hands picked cotton. And then there's a painting
of really is from my grandmother's hands, who was a
very thin woman, but she had thick pads in the
middle of her fingers. And that's because at the age
of four, her daddy was a sharecropper, and so when
(10:05):
she would pick the cotton at four, it would rip
her hands out right. And so this particular, uh part
of the book would I So, so along with the
book an album, a download album download. So there's there's
an album that goes along with the book and and
also in the book. So the book actually comes out
(10:27):
for sale in September, and people will get a download.
They're probably gonna burn it in Florida, but they'll they'll
get it they'll get it. So so so the music
actually is what also helps to deepen the the words,
(10:48):
because each line has a whole song to it that's amazing,
and so you can play it and you play it
with your kids, and then as you're talking, as you're reading,
and thoughts of your own pieces start to come up,
and that makes it rich for when you're talking and
you're reading it to your.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Life, what did you decide that you would have an
album that was going to go along with the But
so all of my books have albums to it, Okay,
all of them.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Have so so I always so one of the things
that I want people to do is I want people
to find a way into what I'm trying to say
any way that they can. So, whether it's art, whether
it's books, whether it's music, whatever it is i'm trying.
I'm writing, I'm writing a screenplay right now. I'm writing
a play right now. So so so what I'm trying
to do is create kind of this network of of
(11:37):
of of art and books and and and and talks
and everything. So when when our people start to begin
to say, okay, maybe I need to address these particular
pieces that my work is something that they can just
almost like lay with and be with and play with
(11:58):
and in whatever way that they need to.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And you know, we talk about this book becoming available
in September, and then I made a little joke about Florida.
But that's real, No, that's real, real. So talk to
me about what your thoughts on with these books being
banned now and the attack so so on history and facts.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That's exactly right. So so I will tell you.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So. So I always think whenever I'm I'm writing, I'm
always thinking in kind of like a fugitive way, like
like I'm almost thinking like like Harriet Tubman, like there
the we we knew, our people knew that if we
were out there telling everybody that we were trying to read,
that we would die, right that that that we would
(12:40):
be murdered to read, to learn to write, and so
and so what we had to do is we had
to develop this kind of fugitive ethos this fugitive philosophy. Right,
so you shut up, let me, I'm gonna tell you
what this is. Don't you go back there, right and
and and so one of the things that I had
thought about this book is that in our community.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
We have L B.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
G t q I A plus people in our community.
And one of the things that would would make me
happy is if I started to see on the internet
drag queens and trans people that look like us reading
to kids that they love and reading the kids that
are important to them. Because if we're going to change
(13:24):
what's happening for us and our people, it's not going
to be because we ask for permission. It's going to
be because we do it right, and we don't and
and and and we that, and we go to the
cracks and we accentuate the cracks so something else new
can emerge. That's the only way we can do it.
So for me, places like Florida, places like Texas, places
(13:49):
like America, those places are ripe for possibility for our people.
And I'm trying to I'm trying to write things and
do things that when our people come to a place
to where they say, yeah, I want to do something else,
that I have stuff that they can actually utilize. So
I actually just launched a thing online called black Octopuses.
(14:13):
Yeah black yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's
it's there now. It's just it's just lost no Monday.
And so that's a place where I'm going to be
doing a lot of live stuff. I'm going to be
doing workshops, I'm going to be doing things like, Uh,
I have a platform where people who want to know
(14:36):
about racialized trauma and want to do it in community
that they can do it. It's a subscriber uh platform
and that just launched. And so I'm, like I said,
I'm trying all of these different types. So it's Black
Octopus Society dot com.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
What do you think about engaging with people who are
opposite of how you think, like say Donald Trump or
you know, we see people saying you got to have
these conversations with people. What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Can I be yeah, I want you to be honest.
The black woman's body has this country has always had
unfettered access to every idea, every orifice, every understanding of
the black woman's body. Like it is relatively new sibling
(15:28):
that me and you could be sitting here talking the
way that we're talking and be somewhat sure that there's
not a lunch party outside waiting for us. That's a
new occurrence, right, right, and so and so black bodies
have been conditioned to believe that we are to be
of service to white bodies are we need to make
(15:49):
them comfortable. We need to calm them down, We need
to make sure that they don't get too.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
We have to forget, we have to forget.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I'm not in that place. I am in a place
where uh, we're doctor King, who was a revolutionary at
this time, where he said that he is afraid that
he has led his people into a burning building and
speaking about America, right, and and we override what might
(16:18):
be best for us so much that we want to
expose ourselves to people who want to murder us, who
don't like us, who don't whose philosophy is that we
are a different species.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
What about it? Those people are us too, because there's
also black people that.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Absolutely we even't just we've drank the water too, right.
This is what I'm talking about racialized trauma, is that
some of us have some of the people that look
like me, and you have decided that it's better to
be on the side of the oppressor than it is
to continue to fight for liberation in free.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And I think for some people it's also financial reason.
But that's I'm gonna get some money from these people
because I'm contrarians. So that, and I'm on their team.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I'm on their team.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
But this is why what you do is so important.
This is why what I do is so important. This
is why us being able to say, Look, if it's
a choice between reaching out to you knowing that you
don't rock with me, or a choice between cultivating a
network with people that could potentially do something to make
(17:25):
the changes, I'm putting my efforts into that because over
here I've seen my wife, I've seen my daughter, I've
seen my uncles. I'm seen my grandfather be weathered by
interacting with people like you, and I am not going
to allow that to happen to me.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
You know. I also, like I said earlier, I know
there's so many things we could be talking about, but
master's in love now. I saw that you actually rewarded
some of that book as a lot of it, And
so talk to me about when you originally put this
book out in twenty fifteen and then reimagining it for
twenty twenty two when it came back out.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, you know, in twenty fifteen, I was a different person, right,
I was a different person as a husband, I was
a different person as a parent. I was a different
person I had just been I had just gotten back
from Afghanistan after two years. So I was in Afghanistan
from twenty eleven to twenty thirteen. Twenty and fifteen is
(18:22):
when I actually landed. So I came home in twenty thirteen,
but because of all of the trauma, all of the
things that were going on, I didn't actually land to
about twenty fifties. Yeah, it was it was a rough go,
but but I had family. I had my wife, my kids,
a community that were really holding me through through that
(18:42):
whole the whole time. But so when I wrote Monsters
in Love, I was also doing my private practice and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So I particular way of.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Thinking about how to do the work right or when
I will. Actually the first book was when it originally
came out, was called rock the boat okay, And you
know how everybody said, don't rock the boat right.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
In relationships, you want to try to not are you
keep us moved?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
You want to, you want to appease everybody. You want
to you want to find the middle ground. You want
to you want to compromise, and stuff like that. And
what I had, what I had learned and what I
watched both in my own life and my own marriage
and in couples is that in actuality, some things need
to be ground on. Some things take years before, like
(19:30):
like like you know how people say things like well
we need to agree to disagree.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's cool if.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You're talking about dinner. But you can't agree to disagree
about whether or not you want to have.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
A baby, right right.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You can't agree to disagree about if you're spending up
all the money.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Like why would I get pregnant? He'll change his mind?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yes, yes, no, There ain't no greed to disagree about
the important things in life. The reason why there's such
why there's such pressure and those types of things, is
because that pressure is design to make you grow up.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Now, you may.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Grow up with that person, or you may grow up
away from that person, but the pressure is relationships are
people growing machines. And so in twenty fifteen, I had
a particular understanding of that. When I rewrote it, I
had over years begun to kind of work with things
(20:24):
in terms of my own maturity, work with things in
terms of my understanding about race, work with things in
terms of my understanding about sex and sexuality, work with
my own homophobia, work with my own trans pieces, because
I have a lot of the couples. If you notice
in the book, or once you read the book, there's
a lot of couples in there in which you can't
I purposely wanted you to not be able to tell
(20:46):
whether or not it was a heterosexual couple, or a
trans couple, or a homosexual couple, because I wanted you
to get to the conundrums that happened in any relationship
when you're trying to deal with another human being. So
so so so, the difference in twenty fifteen and Monsters
in Love Now was that there's so much more that
(21:08):
I've learned about how to work with couples, and so
much learn more that I've learned as a husband and
as a partner.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You know, that's I'm glad that you said that, because
sometimes people will look at somebody like you and the
books that you've written and think that, Okay, he's just
you know, we're all works in progress, all of us. Yeah.
So just because you're an expert in a you know,
a clinical social worker, like an expert in a field,
that doesn't mean you're not still learning and growing and
changing and developing always.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
And that's and that's why I say it's people growing, right,
Like we we try and find ways around stuff that
ain't supposed to be found ways around. You're supposed to
go through it, and you're supposed to go through it
with other people, right, and and all of the little
tricks in finding the secret and getting the tip and
stuff like that. Usually that works for the lower level things.
(21:57):
But when you're talking about money, sex, kids, and laws,
When you're talking about those things, it's very hard. When
you're talking about I want to spend more time with
you and your partner saying well, I got to hustle.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Right, I have to work. How do you think we've
got this house?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Exactly right?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
These are the things that are not supposed to be acquiesced.
You're supposed to grind on that with each other and
then see if you can develop the conditioning and tempering
to actually want and reach for more.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right, you talk about emotional stalemates, and that can happen.
And I always do feel like the best relationships are
people who are coming into a situation as an individual
that is complete in themselves, Like you know how some
people will be like that's my better half, or you know,
we kind of come together and that's how we do things,
and I rely on him and you should be able
(22:56):
to do that at times. But the best thing is
when we're both holes and everybody's it's not half and half,
we're seventy and thirty. We're both a hundred and one
hundred or ninety eight and you know, just depending on
where you are at that time.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
But most of us aren't ninety eight ninety eight.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, most of us.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Most of us like the idea, the idea that this
is about better half and the two sholl become one
and all that different type of stuff is part of
what gets us in trouble is because we expect our
partners to almost be our surrogate parents. One of the
things I learned by working with couples is that most
(23:37):
of us go into significant relationships at the same level
that our parents were able to reach.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Okay, Okay, So I'm scared, but.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We should be right because because what it does is
it straightens us and makes us go Okay. There are
some pieces here that I haven't interrogated because my mama's
mama's mama's daddy' daddy he's never interrogated. So now it
just looks like how we do stuff right, so and
so and so relationship.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So I'll give you another one.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So do you remember, like when you get into a
relationship with somebody. There are times where you have been
in a relationship and you go, man, I'm coming into
this relationship. I got my feet underneath me. I'm good.
I'm ninety eight percent right right. And then I got
(24:32):
another person that's ninety eight percent right.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
We're doing good. As long as he's at.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
His apartment and I'm at my apartment.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
We got space, we got our space.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We're good.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And then you get the bright idea to move in
with each other.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Somebody told me a long time ago that that ended
his He was like, whatever you do. You know, things
were great until I decided to move in.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
With That's the people growing machine. Pieces that when you're
out here and you're just doing your own thing, you
have infinite choices. But the moment I say I choose you,
my choices become limited. And when our choices become limited,
we get right up against our adult development. Just saying
I choose you, just saying me nothing's going wrong, just
(25:19):
saying let's.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Baby, let's let's let's get an apartment together.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Just that makes it so you're up against your own development, and.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Then those hard conversations about financing, right, because that does
come up because now we got to know what's your
credit scoring. But some people will tell you those are
the things you need to ask super early on, even
before you commit to somebody.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And what I will tell you is, even if you
ask it, you're still gonna have to deal with this, right,
even if you get all even if you ask all
of those questions, even if you even if they say, baby,
I'm I'm I'm an eight twenty my credit score is
at eight twenty five.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Okay, we say and what I'm going to say is
is that there is somebody in the relationship that is
more of a high desire person for Certainly in all relationships,
there's a person that's a high desire for something in
a low.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Desire for something. There's a person that high has higher
desire for sex and lower desire for sex. There's the
person that has a higher desire to spend money lower desires.
That's a person that has a lie.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I know it's what I am you see to me.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
But but but that itself is going to create a
conundrum in the relationship.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Because it's also do we keep the same bank account?
You know, it is financial literacy months. You know, I'm
a fan of let's put for the bills and everything
in one account, and then we have our separate accounts
for other things that we want to take care of.
You know something else. I'm glad you're here today, and
I wanted to bring this up. I wanted to talk
about Angel Reyes, right, and what Emmanuel ought to have
(26:49):
to say about her. But you know, basically, she's amazing
as an athlete. You know, she's decided she's going to
go into the w NBA. But she did you know,
after the earlye eight laws, she got a lot of
people weighing in on her becoming emotional, and Emmanuel Auto said,
you can't act like the big bad wolf and then
(27:10):
cry like courage the cowardly dog. And so people had
a lot of things to say about that. And she
talked about all the vicious online abuse that she's been
getting as an athlete. She's competitive, she plays the sport amazing.
I want to know what your thoughts are on the
criticism that she's been getting and just even her as
(27:32):
because I think everybody's got a lot of eyes now
on women's basketball, which is a great positive thing, but
women do end up getting judged way differently than men do,
especially when it comes to them being competitive.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah. So I just got back from Ghana a couple
of months ago, and I took some before I went,
I took some dirt from both my grandmother's graves and
did a ceramok what they call a welcoming ceremony over there,
(28:03):
whereas basically the returning people, Uh, we go over there
and we and then they and then we can bring
pieces of our of people who couldn't.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Make it, ancestors.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And one of the things that came to me very
clearly was this idea that the hardness that it took
for people to survive this craziness is no longer useful. Actually,
where all the strength is right now is in us
cultivating more softness with each other, right and more softness
(28:38):
in ourselves, and more softness in the ways that we move.
And so to to to to look at this, we
talk about the adultification of black women, in particular, to
look at this beautiful black woman who is a top
athlete in college, has a very bright future, and to
(28:59):
compare her to a cowardly dog, because she is a
because she is expression. Emotion is the idea around hardness.
We don't. Black women aren't supposed to have a whole
breath of emotional content, Like she's not supposed to cry.
(29:21):
She's always supposed to be hard. She's always supposed to
be the big bad woolf right. And what I want
to say is is that the more us, the more
of us that can see that and say, gnosis, cry,
do what you express the full emotions of human beings, right,
And anybody that whether they look like us or not,
(29:43):
anybody that comes at you, I want you to know
we love you as a community. We love what you're doing,
We love how you get down, make your mistakes.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Everybody is two and dew because of you. The greatest
numbers ever ever. And she works hard, like they said,
you know a lot of her teammates and people who
also play have come to her defense like she's always
at practice. She works really hard. And even her saying that, like,
you know, over being over sexualized, and she was. I
saw somebody in the comments say, well, say she did
(30:17):
a you know, swimsuit shoot or whatever. So what do
you expect. I don't. I did not correlate those two
things at all at all. A swimsuit does not mean
that it's time that you're given permission to sexualize a person.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
And even if it did, what business is that of
probably a man who said that the idea, this is
what I'm saying, that we do not as black bodies,
and as black women in particular, Black women do not
need permission any longer. Stop looking and stop asking for permission.
(30:53):
This structure, the structure only has value to us in
the way only only he sees us as valuable, in
the ways that they can use us to produce something.
And what I want to say is to this, sister Reese,
is that you are much more valuable than that basketball.
(31:14):
You are much more valuable than what what what these
writers are saying. And I want you to hear us
as loud as the critics say. I love you, I
love I love you for you. I love you because
you're a beautiful black woman. You are doing things and
even if you weren't doing things right now, I still
(31:36):
love you. This we we we are so hard on
black women that that and this is what I mean
that we have to start to reclaim the softer pieces
of ourselves. That is actually the future. The future for
us right now is reclaiming the softness, not the hardness,
(31:57):
not trying to be like men, not trying to be
like When I say trying to be like men, I'm.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
The stereotype, the stereotype.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Of Listen, more and more black men right now are
unlive in themselves.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Right Wait, I was I thought you were saying something else. Yeah, no,
that's awful, But that's.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Because we can no longer deal with this hardness as
the only way of expressing ourselves.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Because sometimes when men express themselves or they cry, they
get told that they're being soft, they get told they're sassy.
That's been a big conversation like.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Being you know, you know, all that different type of stuff.
And it is to control not just black men, but
control the expression of what it means to be a man.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, right, all right, well listen, I know we could
go on, and I know you'll be back because the
book comes down in September, the children's book, The Stories
on My Grandmother's Hands, also the album that's coming along
with it, and people can get the vinyl.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
They can get the vinyl on my web dot com
or go to Black Octopus soociety dot Com.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I know you're going to be doing some amazing things
too for the launch of the book.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, well one amazing thing. I'm come
back here all right.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Because I know there's gonna be so many things happening
in this world for us to catch up on, because
you have great commentary just even on current events, for
people to be able to understand and relate the stories
from your books and the things that you're telling us
to what's happening in the world. So I appreciate you
for that. Thank you, all right, well, thank you so much. ReSm. Menican.
And you can also get the Quaking of America, you know,
you can get my Grandmother's hands, and you can also
(33:34):
get the book that I'm going to be picking up
next because I want to make sure that I read
this as well. So Master's in Love, all right, It's
way up
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