I'm Not Your Cis, But We Are Family

This week on WTB TamBam and AJ discuss various topics including their thoughts on the movie Bad Boys 4, the use of Lysol as a feminine hygiene product in the early 1900s, and the challenges of relationships. They also have a conversation with Mykel, a trans man, about gender identity and his personal experiences. Mykel shares his journey of opening up as trans and coming out to his family. He also discusses the challenges and support systems he encountered during his transition. Let's discuss in the socials below.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to We talk Back Podcast, the production of iHeartRadio
and the Black Effect Network.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
We're just two unapologetically black women with an opinion who talks.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
What's up, y'all? Thank you for tuning in for a
new episode We talk Back, a show dedicated to you
dreamers and chasers. This is your co host a j
Helly Thing. What's that?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Tam Bam? Hey, y'all. I love y'all. This shiit dedicated
to niggas and hosts. This week period.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
What's going on? Joy?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
How's your weekend? Uh?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
What the fuck was this? What did I do this
past weekend? I did go see Bad Boys?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh? What do you think? I saw it too?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
It was you know, I don't know. Okay, all right,
here we go, y'all. Okay, it's a pre warning. I
just can't watch Martin Laurence act because I really feel
like somebody has like some strings on him and like
pulling him. It's like a puppe tear type thing going on.
And it was just some questionable things they had him doing,
like showing his ass on the roof, and it's just

(01:13):
I just feel like the old Martin Lawrence would never
even though he plays shit ain't a and all these
other female characters like we ain't never seen Martin ask, Okay,
what the fuck is going on? Marn was a real
nigga on a kid and play on house party and
shit like still a real nigga on the Martin Show,

(01:33):
like it ain't ask nah dog, I don't know what's
going on?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
But and then I also didn't like the fucking hit
Black Hair, Like we know y'all niggas is older black gentleman. Now, okay,
we're all playing hair.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
What did you like about the movie?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
It was like an ai as fuck. It was some
funny parts.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
My my pupils was like, what's the movie funny? And
I'm like, you know, people hadn't ask me did I
like the movie? And I'm like, I don't know. It
definitely wasn't Bad Boys one through two, one through three.
I'll say that I enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I loved the nostalgia
of this brand bringing it back and keeping the story going.
I love Mexican Chris Brown. Fun it was funny. Who
is that nigga or a person? I don't even know
if he's black, but he is you to fall. I
love watching him. I love the part where Reggie, yeah

(02:32):
that video game. It was like, oh your family, and
he got he killed everybody. I was like, oh, Hercules, Hercules, Yes,
let him cook that chicken. He could cook everything.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
I thought they were gonna come back at the end
and be like, damn, this chicken actually real good. Like
I thought it was going to be like one little
last piece. But now that was my favorite partner. Reggie
was cutting up in the house, killing everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
But here's the thing for me, So during that part,
what't they didn't they have another singing? Like because in
the in three, they rushed to the hospital because she
was giving birth Martin Lawrence's daughter, Martin Lawrence. In the
opening scene of three, they're flying through the city streets
of Miami, driving on the beach and everything to get

(03:18):
to the hospital because she was giving birth to a child. Right,
where was that kid in this one? Right? That kid
just disappeared, that baby like RAINA. I don't nobody give
a fuck about.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Raynam to help.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
You know, I don't remember movies like you do, so
I don't even I remember it now since you say
like that that was the opening scene, But I didn't
even think about that.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, because even even in the end of the third one,
Mike Laurie was babysitting for a few days so Martin
and his wife could go off and have a retreat.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Exactly Okay, where did the baby go? Like maybe the
writers don't didn't even remember they was like, fuck.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
That baby, it's a new story. And then another thing
that I wonder why they change Martin's wife. I'm a
fan of the woman who played Martin's wife in this movie.
She plays in a lot of things. She plays angry
black woman and everything.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
And her twin. I didn't even realize she was a
twin fall very long.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, she's a twin. Does her sister act as well?
I think?

Speaker 4 (04:22):
So?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Oh, I did not know that we might be seeing
them both and don't even know it, like Tya and Tamara.
God damn. But the woman who had originally paid played
his wife. She was also on Girl six that's a
Spike Lee movie, and I loved her as the wife,
so I wonder why she didn't participate in the movie.
But other than that, I really enjoyed it. I went

(04:46):
on a blind date and he was late, so I
went ahead. In the movie, without him. And then he
came in and I had got me some popcorn and
some chocolate because that's what I enjoy when I'm in
the movies. And he was like, judge me talking about
all you eat. You put that processed food in your body. Boy,
watch the movie and get right, because this is really

(05:07):
the only time I eat popcorn. Like right, that's what
I said. I was like, this is the only time
I would eat this is in a movie, So relax.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Who's the guy? Like, how do you mean a blind date?
Did you meet him on a dating.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Website or something Instagram?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh shit?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
He had muscles and shit.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
So I was like, okay, but and he came there
judging your fitness.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
He came and judging my dietary choices, Like damn, you
just got here, sit down, you late? Ain't you judging? Nigga? Shame?
I was because I offer he something. He was like, oh,
I would never put nothing like that in my body.
I was like, oh, here we go. I'll never put
you in my body, so so here we go. Let's

(05:57):
get him a sense. Oh wait, wait, wait, I didn't
talk about my weekend. I thought that was it. Like,
go ahead. I went back to YACHTI Body by YACHTI
Artemis and Apollo for my third round of radio frequency,
and this time I got my chin radio frequency and

(06:20):
it's skinnier. Let me see.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
It, dude, look a little Okay, I can see some definition.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, shit working bitch. I
got a minute because my turkey neck looking more like
a chicken neck right now? Okay, started profile. Okay, yes,
I finally get one.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
So this is a non evasive procedure. What is the
cost of something like that? Like what I because I
I think I might have googled some shit and I've
actually done like some laser or something before, but I
don't think it was that.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's affordable. It's not very expensive, but it ain't cheap either,
But it it's affordable. You know, It's way more affordable
than getting liposuction or pdo threads or ky bella, which
I've done all of those, and none of that ship worked,
none of them. This is the only thing that I've
done actually seeing now that I don't know, I don't

(07:16):
know how you have to ask yachty, So is it
like y'all in.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
The fat sales to where it like over time? Is
it something you have to continuously.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
It has it has something to do with like collagen
reproduction and heat and some ship. She said, y'all gotta
ask YACHTI like, go to the yachty page body by yachty.
She got all the answers to that question. But my
turkey neck is gone, y'all, it's almost gone. And I
only did one time, so imagine after three, my shit
gonna be snatched.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
So yeah, y'all, chins, I said.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
For the summer period, y'all, let's get in the sins.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Okay. So now y'all remember recent tisa which recent Teasaine
died down child for When was that, like, uh, I
don't know, February or so when that came out or
earlier than that anyway. So now there's another girl who
just put out a little story time. She actually called
it trauma dump because she ain't like Resa teach this

(08:17):
a real nigga, okay. And she was telling a story
about how she didn't find out that her best friend
of ten years had the same baby daddy as her
until their baby showers. So she was she had a
boyfriend right that she had been dating for three years.
I'm gonna just give y'all A quick little yeah. So

(08:38):
she had a boyfriend she had been dating for three years,
and she had a best friend who she had known,
you know for about ten years or so. So she
said she had helped her friend out, you know, going
through a rough past. She was living in her mom,
so she let her come stay to her house, and
she just feel like, maybe that's when this thing might
have happened. But let's just fast forward. Fuck the backstory.
So they're both pregnant now, right. Her friend says, I'm pregnant.

(09:02):
I had a one night stand. I don't know, you
know what I'm saying. I don't know what I'm gonna
do whatever, but I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna
still have this baby. She's pregnant for her man. She
knows who her baby daddy is, right, So she has
her baby shower one day. The friend told her she
wasn't having a baby shower, you know, because she just
stressed out about the whole situation. This, that, and the third.

(09:23):
So some mutual friends asked her what she attending so
and Soul's baby shower, and She'm like, wait, that bitch
told me she ain't having no baby shower. Now this
is somebody they was naming their kids the same middle name.
I'm your godmom, you're my baby's godmom. Like this is like,
my bitch, this is like me and you having some
fucking kids and were pregnant at the same time situation.

(09:44):
But somebody being a weird Yes, so she says, her
and her friends they shared locations, So she said, the
dumb bitch didn't turn off for a location, so she
went and see, like, what's the location. On that date,
she was at her grandma house. The baby, her friend's
baby showers at the grandma house. She gets there and
see her baby daddy's car outside. She goes in his mama, dad,

(10:06):
grandma there like the same people who was at her
shit the day before. So everybody knew but her that
her man had her best friend pregnant, had her baby
shower the day before, so she called her cousins. When
she saw his car side, she called her family and
she was like, she come from a long line of
crash dummies. Okay, So everybody pulled the fuck up and

(10:27):
they went in there. They took all the girl presents, okay,
they had mama and the headlock. She smacked the bitch,
you know what I'm saying. They got the fuck out
of there, so right, and she said when they all
like congregated back at her house to like discuss what
was happening, and she said she was calling her brother
because they never her brother never showed up because the brother,
the baby daddy ran out the side door when she

(10:49):
pulled up, he ran. Okay, so the baby her brother
never showed up because they're chasing the baby daddy on
the highway. They caught the nigga, like, so he runs
out of gas running from them. It's a whole Like
this shit is so fucking funny to me because come
to find out now after two years now, she said,
when she when they were now because they had the

(11:11):
baby showers at six months pregnant, and technically her, her girlfriend,
her homegirl, got pregnant before her. So you got my
friend pregnant and then got me pregnant, right, so her
the girl they're both six months though at the time,
and they talk. They finally talk after the baby shower

(11:33):
tobacco and all this shit, and she was like the
girl store wasn't really trying to take no accountability. And
she also said she wasn't sure if the dude was
her baby daddy or not. So fast forward two years later,
DNA tests because another nigga hits the baby daddy up
like she told me, this was my kid type thing.
This is not even this man's child.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
M he did fuck, he did hit right, But that
ain't They're so try Can you imagine? Could you imagine? No? No,
I could not imagine that. I couldn't think of anybody
that I'm close with doing some shit like that to me.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I have friends, I have people who I'm no longer
friends with, and I can almost expect that from them
people after the things that have transpired after the friendships. Yes,
I would be like that person might be capable of
some shit like that, because people, that's all the time.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
That's insane right there, having a baby shower, like what
you was gonna do, try to hide the baby forever
from your best friend? You was gonna have them on
playdates and acting like you don't know who the dad is,
Like how was you supposed to do this?

Speaker 1 (12:41):
How and what was it that.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
They go to looking alike? And shit, you know what
it turned out not being his but still yeah, not
just his family all complicit.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
That's who I would really be paused back because she
was like, she didn't really get along with his family
like that, so I guess they probably And actually he said,
she said that the boyfriend told her that he had
told his mom, and his mom told him not to
tell her. Why are you doing that to another woman?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah? My question is now, did she get back with
that nigga? Did she stay with him?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
She said? And I know y'all can't ask it, but
hell no, I stayed ten tolls down on that nigga.
And she was like, why would you even you imagine
like me and you, I tell you all my people business,
like you probably know the ins and out of whatever relationship, right,
So imagine you're still fucking on this dude knowing he
ain't shit and getting pregnant for him, right, because you

(13:39):
really want my ship. That's really it's not about the
man at that point, like you want to.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Be you're jealous of me? Yeah, you're jealous, that's all.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
I can I don't I don't understand, like, why you
signing up the struggle along with me? You already know
I'm probably in a bad situation.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Going through it. But she was don't care she didn't feel.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Bad about taking all the gifts and ship because the
baby is innocent. But that's not even his kid.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Sometimes the sister the parrot all on the child because
child listen, And so, y'all, I don't think I wouldn't
have hit her in that moment though, I'm not hitting
a pregnant woman. But as soon as that baby mutual combat,
as soon as both of us dropped these loads, I'm

(14:27):
coming to see about you.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
I definitely would have fought that bitch.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Right then and there. No, because I'd be worried about
my own No, not pregnant.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
I would have waited. I definitely would have waited. I'm
patient with revenge, very patient.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
I definitely would have been patient. I definitely was gonna
beat that bitch ut once some baby drops, yeah, because
just a slap ain't enough easy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
So look, did y'all did y'all know that the original
use for light saw wasn't just like for you know,
surface disinfectant and shit like that. So apparently in the
early nineteen hundreds, there's a lot of different You can
actually google this, okay. You could find advertisement to people

(15:13):
to women for the use of liesol as a feminine
hygiene product. Okay, say what now, you women with spraying
a kuchi with lysol in the early nineteen hundreds.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Now, Lyesol is a product of Germany, which a lot
of products are. And I have my theories, you know,
because we talk about Nazi Germany. Okay, a lot of
y'all be confused in Nazis with Russia. But the Nazis
came out of Germany, so this is where you get
your high fructose corn syrup and shit like that.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
They created all these.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Fucked up things that we still use in America to
this day.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
I ain't never sprayed lights al on my pussy, No
me neither.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
But when I spray light saw, it really affects my breathing.
Like if I spray light saw, I step out the
room immediately.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Girl I used to I'm still not as much as
I used to be. But one of them black people
that I pul ajx light. Soolt bitch you about cause
the chemical file, all purpose cleaner, awesome, all in the
tub at once be about the.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Fat girl chemical suffocation. So they market it like the
advertisement shows like you know, for to be fresh, smell
fresh or whatever. But really because at that time, contraceptives
were illegal. It was really for induced to abortion is

(16:49):
with the lightsaw.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
So they'd be squirting it up there pussy to.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, rm cells and ship like this.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Listen, listen, y'all. Don't get no fucking ideas off of this.
Listen to this. That shit is not gonna work today.
So don't do it. If you're listening this, that's not
how it works, baby.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Girl, don't do it. Don't do it.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Go get your morning after pilsils. Don't sprain, no lights
out like I got some lights all right here? No,
don't do that. Yeah, goodness, lad you know. It's all
kind of practices that were in the early nineteen hundreds
that just now you're looking back, you're like, wow, that
was insane because they used to like go to the

(17:32):
doctor to get fingered.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
That's really not insane because vibrators didn't exist at that time.
And like I always say, like I feel like female
orgasms is like a new age thing. Niggas did not
give a fuck if he was coming in on. So
you're bitch is just wilding out at the house with hysteria, right,
that's hysteria.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
So and then she gets fingered, go to the doctor
to make her come right quick, right, and now she's
back to nor I saw Cuchie right that part.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Ye'ah. Let's talk about Tiana Taylor and Emon Schumpert for
a second. This was a couple of goals just you know,
a little while ago last year year before, they had
a beautiful like engagement video.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
We saw all the good things they got, these two
beautiful kids. They basically had the.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Same baby twice. But now and they again a divorce
and it's and it seems like it's real nasty. I
feel like Tianna Taylor was trying to keep it under
wraps because the first person I saw come out about
it was this nigga. Okay, and Tianna Taylor did put
out a post one saying that she was trying to
keep it sealed. So he was the one that was

(18:46):
putting on information about what was all in divorce. But
now more every week there's some new ship coming out.
So apparently this nigga wants everything back. Give me my jewelry.
I'm on gifting that condo. This is the statements he's
been making in court and shit or mediation or whatever.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Do we want to get married, girl, I'm scared.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
I'm gonna just tell you this is my last motherfucking
relationship and it's a refurbished one. Okay, so this shit
don't fucking work. Now, I'm outside until nineteen I mean,
I say, nineteen ninety nine, until ninety nine. I'm outside
until ninety nine forever, I'm outside, Like I feel like

(19:32):
after you have conversations with women who have been married,
who have children, failed relationships, they be a lot more
happier by themselves a lot of times, because you know,
like niggas like to talk shit like, oh, you're gonna
die alone. Okay, nigga, We're gonna die alone regardless, because
your ass is dying first anyway.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
So I don't know that women outlive men. You're right,
they do, you know, live.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Mess them out probably die sooner.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, But I just hate that for them because they
did have like such a beautiful family and now it's
being dissolved for the same reasons that you know, a
lot of relationships, and I just do you know, I
try to be hopeful for myself and maybe I'm waiting
as long because my next person will be my forever person.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
But it so you do it at fifty bitch, fuck you.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Better be forever.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Finally got a boyfriend at sixty, ain't god but a
good thirty lit years left.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
But I don't care.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
I've been telling my mom all the time. I don't
give a fuck up. I'm a hundred. If I ain't happy,
I'm getting the fuck up out of there early, early,
and so I don't give grace anymore. I'm sorry. Not
in relationships, I don't like. I don't feel like that
shit no more. I feel like we are at this
big age. We know exactly who we are for the
most part, right, because you still got room for you grow,

(21:01):
still grown.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Right, But.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
I know you, you know me, We should be able
to from the very beginning, can I deal with this person?

Speaker 3 (21:09):
And not?

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Because that's all a relationship business. How much shit you
could deal with from another motherfucker, that's all of it, right,
And once you can't deal with some shit, it's over with.
But I just, yeah, I'm out of there at one
hundred if need be.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
So.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
I hate when it get nasty like that, like Simon
and Porsche. That shit getting ugly too, Yes, it's getting
real ugly.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Who the fuck is Porsche? Who the fuck was she
married to?

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Like? Who?

Speaker 1 (21:32):
What's his real name? Is that the real name? Or
is it what's the name? Is that the name he
stayed in the country with, Like, what's the name? Girl?

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Who the fuck?

Speaker 5 (21:40):
No?

Speaker 2 (21:40):
I hate that for her. I really hate that.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
For her because just the year before, she was sitting
on stage at the Black Effect Podcast Festival, and you know,
she did a segment before we talk back, and we
was talking about the shrimp and being tied at a
shrimp and can't you be with one person forever? Like
it's just like, like, I mean, I'm pretty she had
to say the things. But shortly thereafter, here we are.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Here we are. Man, that's scary, y'all. Y'all got a
good one. Hold on to him tight, baby, because if
you don't and y'all break up and he good, I'm
coming to get his ass. I said to God.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
All the good ones and miserable relationships, all good ones
trying to figure out how they can lead us, bitch
and still have access to their kids. I know some
I know, yes, man, I know some men who are
really getting ran through by bad women. It's not a

(22:41):
gender neutral thing, like you got bad people.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, speaking of gender neutral, our conversation today is about
gender identity. And we have a trance guest on today,
so y'all stay tuned cause we're gonna have a really
good conversation about trans issues. We'll be right back. Okay, guys,

(23:07):
we are back. And last week we had Flame and
Row on and I mentioned that one of my good
friends had a trans son and I was very ignorant
about trans people. And Flame said that because she was
an older generation trans person, younger generation trans people hated

(23:29):
her pretty much. So I feel like it would be
good to get my friend's son on so we can
have the conversation, so I can get better educated, and
so can you, guys. So welcome Michael Hogan till we
talk back. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate you
taking time out to do this. Your mama said you

(23:50):
wouldn't do it, so I'm surprised that you came on. No.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
I when she asked me, I was like, oh, yeah, sure,
and she was like, really, I believe it.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
She was surprised. Okay, So I have some questions for you.
If you feel like it's just too much, be like, girl, no,
don't do that, okay, And that's okay. I won't be
offended and let me just put the disclaimer out there
is I'm pretty ignorant. Okay, So if the question sounds

(24:20):
stupid or dumb or just girl, what the fuck you
talk about? Please correct me at any time. Okay.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
I promise you. I've heard worse.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Okay, and everything is coming, you know, with love when
we talked back.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Okay. Period. That's the part that we need to say first.
All right, let's get into it. What is the difference
between being trans and gay? Or is there a difference?

Speaker 3 (24:49):
It's not, damn right, like.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Some questions to know about him first, God, damn go ahead, baby,
I told you.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Just don't get into it.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
Well, yeah, I would definitely say that there's a difference.
First of all, I mean, we get two separate letters
in the LGBT acronym. But most of all, you know,
I find that, you know, gender and sexuality are just
completely separate, you know, like how you see yourself, how
you want to present yourself, how I want people to
see you. It's completely different from who you are romantically

(25:22):
and sexually attracted to. So yes, they're they're very different things.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Hmmm.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
I mean, you guys, did everybody watch Orange, The New Orange,
The New Black? On Netflix. Okay, well, this happens in
the first season. They're the trans woman. Laverne Cox plays her. Okay,
when she transitions, she still wants to be married to
her wife, like it just had nothing to do with
who she was attracted to. It just was about how
she wanted to be seen, right.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Okay, same thing with Flay Monroe. So he excuse me,
well she I mean he does. He goes, he doesn't
really subscribe to the pronouns and all that stuff. Right,
So her partner, his partner is a woman, genetically born woman, right,

(26:11):
and then she also has children, so I don't know.
We never got into what she does now.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
She says she doesn't like to be called a boy,
so she yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Oh okay, I don't remember that.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, remember us why I feel stressed out a little bit.
The pronouns really stressed me out, and I'll be like
feeling bad when I fuck it up. I'll be feeling
really bad when I fuck up with someone's pronouns. And
it's never intentional. It's just what I see with my
eyes versus what a person wants to be called is

(26:45):
just conflicting in me, and it's hard to like because
I want to acknowledge people as what they want to
identify as. But then there's this disconnect between my brain
and their identity and it sucks up sometime. Not on purpose, though.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
A lot of people feel that way. A lot of
people feel that way.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Okay, I can even understand that they them when the
person isn't around, right, So like if I'm talking about
like we're talking about flame, right, they aren't currently here, Like,
it's easy to use as they them in that sense,
in that tense, but when the person is right there,
how do you do that?

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Well?

Speaker 4 (27:26):
They it's all psychological because, like like you said, like
what your brain perceives the person as might be different
from what they want to be called. But I found
that in my experience, the more trans people I've been
around over the years, the easier it has been. Like my,
you know, your whole brain framework of how you view
gender just ends up changing a little bit different. Yeah,
So it's it's not I don't struggle people pronounced ever anymore,

(27:47):
just because I'm around so many trans people that it's
just it's easy. You know, someone tells me and I'm like, oh,
now I see you as what you told.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Me as and that's what I said last week. I
don't really, you know, encounter too many trans people, like
I know bisexual women, I know gay men, you know,
so whatever. They usually like the gay men, especially as
our age group older, they don't mind being still called
a boy. He whatever. It's not really that confusing. So

(28:14):
I don't I'm not really around that many trans people.
I can see like if I were, it would be
it would come much easier. So I just wanted to
get into a little bit about you and you're a
background because I know you're a young person. Okay, so
you might not have a whole lot in your background.
You just told me, he told me going into the
third year of college. Okay, how's that on a college campus?

(28:37):
Or are there a lot of Are there a lot
of trans people on your college campus?

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well?

Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yes, so I go to an art school in a city.
So it's weirder to find a person who was like
straight and sisunder than it is to find a person
who is not some flavor of LGBT. So yes, I'm
constantly surrounded by people who are queer on a daily basis.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
So, okay, explain what is queer.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Queer is an umbrella term for LGBT. So a queer
person could be a lesbian, could be a gay man,
could be bisexual, could be trans, could be anything underneath
the LGBT umbrella.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's just an umbrella term.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
So if I got my cutia by a girl, am
I queer?

Speaker 4 (29:19):
If you identify as queer, then yes, Okay, it's a choice.
It's a personal choice. There's like a lot of you know,
older LGBT people who don't identify with that term because
it was used as a slur back in the day,
but a lot of younger people have reclaimed it.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
But it's really just up to you.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
So it's kind of like nigga and nigger.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yes, essentially a little less controversial.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
But yes, is it.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
It's the same principle.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
So at what point did you realize you were a
trans man? Have you felt this way your entire.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Life to some degree, yes, I definitely feel like I mean,
even as like a little little kid like I always
wanted to be a boy, like, I felt very strongly
about it, but I knew that that wasn't the case.
It was always you know, put your earing zone before
we go out or else I'm not taking you out.
Like things things like that, But it really wasn't until
puberty that I really started to feel like any like

(30:15):
anguish about it, you know, and throughout the first like
couple of years of because I hit puberty very early.
It was around like third or fourth grade, like way
quicker than everybody else. If you look at like my
elementary school pictures, I'm like a head taller than every
other student. So it was early for me, and I
was just like very sad all the time until around
like fifth grade when I heard of the concept. I

(30:38):
was like, oh, you can do that, like that's allowed,
Like people have done that, that's possible.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
You know.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
You said third grade, you heard about it fifth fifth grade?
So was it taught in school?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
So now if you learn about it? It was online?

Speaker 4 (30:50):
Absolutely online, okay, and around fifth grade when I heard
about it, But I didn't like say anything or do
anything about it until like late six.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Grade when I talked to my mom about it.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
That didn't go super well, but it didn't go terribly either.
But yes, it was around that age when I realized,
you know, and I was out to my friends around
seventh grade.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Now, in school, how did that work? Did your teachers
except that did they start identifying you differently or how
does that work as a young person in.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
School, Well, you know, I was always a teacher's pet,
so I was always like really close with my teachers.
I still keep in contact with some of them from
like as early as middle school even now. But only
the ones who I got along with really well kind
of knew. But not because I told them, you know,
I wasn't allowed to tell them until ninth grade freshman
year high school.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Wasn't allowed to tell them.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
But some of them knew, Like my theater teacher knew
because they would see my friends talk to me like
that and call me that. But they would I think
they would always just try to avoid calling me anything
so that they would you know, upset my family or me.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Or or upset you.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yes, what were some of the biggest challenges like coming
out as trands? I know, especially to black parents law
and it's like the end of the goddamn world for
some of them, you know. But I think women may
be more a little bit more you know, accepting of
the new age stuff.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Well, you know, I find that, you know, within my family,
like most of my family members ignore it, you know,
Like I don't get any negative comments but I don't
get positive ones either, Like everyone just like.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Pretends that's not a thing that's happening.

Speaker 5 (32:32):
You know.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
It's pretty much like, oh, my very beautiful granddaughters, like
I have a mustache now, but do I that shit?

Speaker 3 (32:41):
But that's very sweet.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Of That's what I was gonna ask you, Like, how
does Mss Barbara your grandmother? Does she acknowledge it or
she just completely just.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
We have never said, exchange a single word about it.
The only thing I can remember is for my sixteenth birthday,
my family put together like a bunch of videos of
my family and friends saying happy birthday to me. It
was very heartfelt, and most of the people in the
video called me Mikel, but my grandma called me by
you know, my birth name, and she called me afterwards

(33:09):
like feeling very ghost She's like, I'm so sorry. Everyone
in the visit video called you Mikel except me, and
I was the and I was like, oh, it's fine,
it's completely fine.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
I love you.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
You can call me whatever you want because I love you,
my grandma, And that was like the only thing we've
talked about in that sense ever my entire life.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
And then she probably just call you baby, come here, baby,
go get that shit from me.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Baby like this, I'll be lucky if she doesn't call
me by my little cousin's name, like she just missed
it exactly right.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Everybody else name but yours.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Did you ever struggle with your family saying this is
a phase, this is just a phase.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
I mean yes, definitely with my mother when I was
like younger. But you know, time went on and it
didn't end, so not just it worked itself out.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
You know, have you ever encountered anyone who it was
a phase and they transitioned back and what did that
look like? Oh?

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Several?

Speaker 4 (34:11):
You know, people try out different names, different pronouns. You know,
I've never met anyone who you know, went on hormones
or had surgery and changed their mind. But a lot
of people have tried out a million different names, a
million different pronouns just to see what fit and went
back to what they were originally as because you know,
they had something else going on that made them feel
that way.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
You know, it's normal.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Okay, so that is normal. Okay, See I'm learning right now.
I'm learning. I'm definitely learning.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
What what are there any support systems out there or
anything that you might have tapped into why you were
transitioning into a transmand.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
What do you mean.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Like online, like where did you know any type of.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Greers or therapy or anything to.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Nothing that I looked into, But I there was a
big like for me, there was a big YouTube community
of like trans like mask YouTubers who would like make
videos together and talk about things and be like, oh,
here's what I use, here's what I do, here's some tips,
you know. So that was a really big help for
me earlier in the day.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
What are some of the day to day struggles that
you might experience as a trans person.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
Definitely the biggest thing is like using public restrooms. It's
like I don't know, It's like I don't what. I'm
always thinking what is going to make someone not talk
to me? You know, like what is gonna make someone
leave me alone? Which choice? Which bathue do I go into?
And I think at this point I just try to
avoid all together, or I try to like really gauge,

(35:49):
like how masculine do I look today? Do I look
masculine enough that someone's not going to really question it,
You're gonna think I look a little feminine? Or should
I just say forget it and go into the women's
restroom and hope no one bothers me. You know, most
of the time, I just try to avoid it overall,
but it's a very annoying thing I have to think
about constantly when I'm out in.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Public, right, because if you got a P, you got
a P and you shouldn't have to be concerned like
what other motherfuckers think about you taking the peace.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Now, on my school campus, all the restrooms are gender neutral.
Not all of them, but most of them. A lot
of them are gender neutral restrooms in the public buildings,
and so I just don't have that problem there. So
when I go back home and I'm out in normal again,
I'm like, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Wow, you know, I never thought about that because you know,
you know, when they were coming up with like the
gender they were trying to push that from North Carolina.
I remember, like Charlotte and people was like, no, we're
not doing that. But now, like just speaking to you,
and I'm still I'm thinking about you, not as a
trans man, but you know, just having to be this

(36:53):
person going into a men's restroom, Like what would that
really feel like? You know, because I think that even
if you presented as you do going to a women's restuom,
you might not even have any problems. But how would
you feel like being in a men's restroom with men.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And they treat you differently, or I've been on to
saw you or do something harmful to you because they
don't see you as a man. It sounds scary.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
It's definitely.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
It's always for me, it's always scarier before I go in.
I just have personally never had a real negative experience.
It's was something I worry about because always know, just
because as it happened yet doesn't mean it never will,
you know, But so far, no eye contact, no one
even looks at me in the men's rem I just
walked past.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Whenever I've gone in.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
I've had one negative experience in the women's restroom at
like a It was like at a church event. I
should have known, but it was even before I was
like fifteen, you know, and I just had short hair
and I was wearing a little suit. And I walked
into the women's restroom and the woman was like, the
men's restroom was over there, and I just stood there.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
I looked at her. She was like, oh, my bad
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
She just walked past me, and I didn't even know
how to feel because it's like number one, clearly you
don't see me as a mad which is like good
and bad in this scenario.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
I guess I just had to let it go.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Do you feel like your mental state has been affected
in any way by being a trans person? What do
you mean, like, like, has there been any negative impact
on your mental state because of you transitioning?

Speaker 3 (38:31):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
I think that it's really only been positive for me,
except in the sense of like I've had a negative
experience with other people that made me feel bad, you know,
but for myself personally, like when I'm by myself chilling
in my room, and when I'm with my friends, who
are you know, cool with me and nice to me,
I feel great.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
I feel like me.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
That's good to know that makes me hear. What advice
would you give a parent who is newly learning that
their child or young adult is a trans person.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
You know, if it's like if they're an adult, you know,
I would just say, like let them take it at
their pace, you know, like listen to them, let them
make their own decisions, but also advise them like careful
slow down. It was really hard as a transperson to
hear like slow down at your transition, you know, because
like to you, you're like I need to be who

(39:35):
I envision for myself, Like right now, you know, you
feel like every second that goes by that you're not
like looking the way you want to look, being the
way you want to be. That you know, your life
hasn't started. That could be often what it feels like
that you aren't even like living your life yet because
you're still trapped in this like version of yourself that
you don't like. But it is still good to take

(39:56):
time and pace yourself to really figure out what exactly
it is that you want. Because there's a million different
ways that you can be trans you know. I know
people who changed their pronouns but will never change their
like their body. I know people who are on hormones
would never want surgery, people who've gotten surgery but don't
want hormones, people who have gotten both but never change
their name or their pronouns. Like, there's a million different

(40:16):
ways that you can be transgender.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
And that's what I think about, like are you really transitioning?
Because I mean this is more so for the trans women,
because I don't A lot of them haven't actually transitioned, right,
They appear as women, but they you know, they still
have their same genitalia. They may have changed your names.
So is that really a trans at that point?

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Well, you know, being transitioning is really just going from
one place to another, you know, regardless of where that
place is. It's complicated, you know, because it's number one.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Do trans the trans women are a little bit more complicated?
Because I always say this on this show, like I
feel like that whole movement is just like the highest
form of patriarchy that I could think of, right, and
so for we really don't hear from trans men as much.
It's like that group of people just be chilling. Meanwhile,
these trans women are going wild, Like do you feel

(41:18):
like they are pushing the agenda a little bit more
like the trans The trans women are way more involved
with like a lot of their legislation and things like that.
Do you feel like trans men get the same type
of respect in the LGBTQ community as trans women?

Speaker 3 (41:36):
No, but I don't think we should. Here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Trans women can't hide like transmen can. Testosterone does a
lot more to a female body than estrogen does to
a male body. Like trans women have always been out
front and center. They've always been the number one like
victim of the attacks, you know, they've always also been
the number one people in the streets marching for our rights,
you know. So it's like we have completely different positions.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
You know.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
It's not that transmen are just like outliving their lives,
Like we just don't get spotted as often. You probably
have met more than one more than me, you know,
transman before, because like we just we blend in with
regular every day society. So women can get clocked all
the time, and that's you know, it's harder for them,
so they kind of have to speak out. They gotta

(42:23):
have to have big personalities, they kind of have to
constantly defend themselves.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
But you don't think it's because like the man, the
genetic masculinity that's still there, right, no matter how much
you try to mask it. It kind of comes out
in anger. And this is coming from a woman, right,
It kind of comes out in anger oftentimes towards women.
So when we see a trans woman with all this aggression,

(42:51):
I automatically think that's a dude acting like this. Towards
a woman, you know, whereas you don't really see trans
men like online be with men with men or women
nature born men. Yeah, and oftentimes the trans women aren't
being a I'm talking about like online and they're not
really being attacked. And I feel like women aren't like

(43:13):
you know, men complain about how women are like the
number one supporters of all of us, right, just heterosexual
women just be okay with all the shits, right, But
we get attacked the most. I feel like from everybody
heterosexual women who support you're attacked of trans women.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
So I got attacked, And I want you to tell
me how you really feel about this. Michael, I said
that I'm not cis gender. I'm just a woman. I'm
just a woman. I'm not a cis gender woman. And
someone said, you are what we say you are. You're
cis gender and you just have to deal with it.
That's what it is now. And I felt a way
about it, because how do you get to identify as

(43:54):
what you want to? But I don't, you know, like
why do I have to be cis gender? Why can't
I do be what I've always been? That it's okay
with me. I'm not telling you what you can or
cannot be, and I respect whatever you decide to be.
But why am I not receiving that same respect.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
I get that, you know, it's complicated because like on
the other end, you know, trans people don't get to
decide whether or not we're called transgender or not. Like
if you identify something other than your birth sex, you're
called transgender, and if you identify as your birth sex,
you fallow into the definition of cis gender. And it's like,
I can understand being given a title that people say

(44:30):
like objectively, like factually that is you. I mean, we
have the same exact sperience. People tell me all the time. Factually,
objectively you are female. Factively objectively you are a woman.
And honestly, I don't know. I just ignore them, Like
when you say, like, I am not cisgender, I am
just a woman. I think that you have the right
to say whatever you want to say, to identify however
you want to identify. I think, And at the end
of the day, it's such a non issue to be

(44:52):
angry with SIS people for not wanting to identify ASIS,
Like I think that you can identify whoever you want,
you know, like in everyday life. It really does not
affect anybody that much. Like how often do you have
a problem because someone's like, I'm actually not a gender,
I'm just a woman.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
It's like, okay, that's right.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, And I think it's like a it's just like
the collective, right, So why it's almost like they're trying
to replace women, the transit the trans women, Like we
can't be we can't call ourselves women, but they want
to be called women period, Like that seems to be
the movement.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
What do you mean you can't call ourselves women?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
They want us now to call ourselves cis women or
birthing people while they call themselves women girl sis.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
I think the term birthing people honestly comes more from
like people who are female first and in transition to
something else, rather than people. We have a term called AFAB,
which means assigned female at birth, which is a term
that people who are transgender but don't identify as women
use so that we can clarify what kind of transperson
we're talking about. Okay, okay, let me explain. Let me yes,

(46:08):
let me explain, Let me explain. So there's so many different,
like I said, as many different kinds of trans people
people identify as all kinds of different things, you know,
But when when we were specifically talking about like a
trans person who was born female, the term afab is
used to clarify. It's not used in everyday conversation, and

(46:29):
it's specifically in these conversations. And I think the term
birthing people, which is very stupid, honestly, but it's in
that same realm where it's like, I don't think anyone
should be calling women birthing people on a regular basis,
only in like very specific conversations that are about medical things.
Should we need to use these kinds of terms, you know,
because I understand inclusivity, but there's like there's a you

(46:56):
understand what I'm trying to say, Like.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
I don't know, No, that's not be lost as hell.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Look, I don't know, okay.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Aren't a fab person is someone who was genetically born
a female but now identify as it's something else that
might be having a baby.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
No, that has nothing to do with the birth part.
Oh shit, Okay, it's just it's just if that literally
means assigned female at birth, is like the doctor looked
at you and they're like, that's a female that's all
that means. Okay, And it's the same term for people
who are who were male to a mab.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
It's the same thing a mab.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
I'm put this in my nose.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I hit it, okay. Can you talk about your experience
with as accessing healthcare as a transman?

Speaker 4 (47:48):
I mean doctors are like weird, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Are they because I feel like they like even like
when you're filling out paperwork now, like they asked these
these things are doing with your pronouns and all that stuff.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
But you know, like that's the core, not the corporation,
but that's like the higher reps, like the people making
the paperwork are not necessarily the doctors.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Themselves, you know, and like got it right.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
I don't know, it's always just a little awkward, like
they don't know how to treat me, like just as
a person. I always feel like we're not really like
connecting on like a personal level, you know. I mean
they're always hopeful, they're always doing the best they can,
doing their job as best they can, but it definitely
always feels strange like they don't know how to approach me,

(48:28):
maybe like the word to say the wrong thing. I
don't know, I don't go to the doctor that often.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Is it because of that or is just because you're healthy.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
I'm just bad at going to the doctor, and general
always happened just.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Like a man, yeah, man, a black man.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
So how long have you technically been transitioning? So you
you felt this way since you were you said fifth grade? Right, yes,
how long have you actually been transitioning into? Mikeel?

Speaker 4 (49:02):
Like?

Speaker 1 (49:02):
When did that start?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
You know?

Speaker 4 (49:05):
I tried out hormones, Because hormones, I said.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
I've been onto saucer room.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
I just I turned eighteen first, just a couple of
days after I turned eighteen, So it's been about like
a little over two years now that I've been onto
saucer room. I think I got my name legally changed
a little bit before I was eighteen.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I believe.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I still haven't.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
I've been lazy, so I haven't like taken the paperwork
to like the DMV and all that good stuff. So
I like driver's license still says my birth name, but
it doesn't bother me that much. But like, I've been
out to like my friends and my parents as early
as eighth grade freshman year, so socially, I transitioned around

(49:48):
that time.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Do you feel like there is an age too young
for a person to start transitioning? Like should a parent
be like, my five year old doesn't feel like a
so I should let my five year old be a girl.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
I think that there should be no minimum aids for
socially transitioning.

Speaker 5 (50:09):
No.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
I think that you should be able to call yourself
whatever you want at any age to see how it feels.
I think it's so important to like go out in
life and have people call you what you think that
you want to be called, so that you can see
how it makes you feel, like or do you want
to do this really? Like I don't understand the issue
with the trial run, you know. I understand the issues
with hormones and surgery that should all become like much.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
More buying clothes, you know, And it's also a transition
for the parent too.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
I understand that it's very hard on parents as well,
but I think that there's it's harder on the person
on the kid, you know, as someone who was that kid,
you know, and it is the issue. I mean, I
guess if you are, like, if you don't have money
to just blow like buying clothes can be a problem,
but I promise you, like most trans kids will be

(50:55):
willing to go to the thrift shop and buy like
a two dollars boy shirt to make themselves feel better,
you know. Like I don't think we're all that picky.
But I can't speak for everybody, of course, but no,
I don't think the should be a minim maze for socially social.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Okay, too well, I want to identify as a bad
rich bitch and I want everybody to call me that
and twenty five years old forever.

Speaker 5 (51:20):
Okay, I think I feel like I want to be
a white man, rich white man. Have you encountered any
difficulties like in the workplace related to your gender identity
or have you worked or I have a full time
college student.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
I've worked, you know, I mean like minimum waise jobs,
you know, but you know I told them what the
name to call me. I really, I mean I've had
some really funny moments with like customers working customer service,
Like would you like that like hear a story?

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yes, yes, okay like stories.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Okay, I was at the cash register and this like
grandmother came in with like just like me be like
a little ten year old boy and like a like
a six year old little girl and they come in
and they like they're ordering their stuff, and the little
girl just keeps staring at me, like staring me down.
And I'm like, here we go, like I know, I
know this really, and she just she looks at me
and she goes, are you a gore or a boy?

(52:15):
And I was like, am I what I said?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Excuse me?

Speaker 3 (52:18):
She said? Are you a or a boy? And the
grandma was like looking at the kid, looking at me
like so terrified, and I.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Was just like, I was like, I'm a boy and
she was like, no, you're not. My Grandma's like, I'm
so sorry.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Stop.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I was like, why ask if you if you already know.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
If you already decided what I am, why are you asking?

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Try to check your temperature?

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Grandma looks so scared, and I'm just like I could
as a child.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Have you ever had problems with like people identifying you
on purpose as what you don't want to be identified
is just to be mean to you, like people you
know in real life?

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Honestly, no, I find that people don't talk to me,
you know, about it when they're not cool with it,
you know, like everyone just avoids it. I think it's
because I'm such a like a I don't care, Like
you really cannot hurt my feelings, Like if you just go,
if you're trying to antagonize me, I'm not going to
give you the satisfaction of blowing up about that, you know.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
So I've always been a person. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
I think I just have thick skin in that sense
where it's just like you can do whatever you want,
Like I simply just surround myself with people who are
cool with me and who support me, Like if you don't,
then I just will ignore you. That's just how I've
always felt. So I think people just don't try, you know.
I mean I've had like one I've had one, yes,

(53:47):
but the best I could I was really young in
my transition then, so that hurt me more. I think
that's probably why I'm like this now. She she's my
character development that, Yes, what advice would you.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Have for a young person who's struggling with telling their
family how they feel and you know, wanting to transition
but not feeling like it's a safe space in their environment.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Honestly, you got to put yourself first in that scenario,
Like if you think that coming out is going to
make you be unsafe, like then spend however many years
you got to you're out of the house, prepping for
being able to be on your own and being able
to take care of yourself, you know, because like I
don't think that you should hide suppress how you're feeling
for your entire life because you think it's going to

(54:33):
make you lose people. The people who love you should
support you no matter what. So I guess that's my advice,
Like think about what's going to make you the most
safe and happy of the course in your entire life,
and not what's going to make people accept you.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
You know. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Is there anything you wish you had known like earlier,
like wish while transitioning.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
There's something I wish I could go back and tell
myself like middle school age, And it's that I think
there's this idea that like only like very queer looking
people are going to be attracted to you as a transperson.
It's not true, Like you'd be very shocked.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Because these niggas is nasty and I'm not saying an
nasty but it's almost like a weird.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Thing, like.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Why why people hide what are you their preferences.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Some queer shit going on with a lot of guys.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
You know, not even just guys, women too, women to pretend.
I don't know people people, people hide their preferences, and
so it's like you were not a grotesque You're not
gonna be a gro test moster.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
Who's gonna be so ugly that one's gonna want you?
That's not true.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Plenty of people like what they're like be choosing, and.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
You're gonna be surprised and who all want you? Like,
damn boys, damn girls. You know, I relax exactly. Not
for me to go around.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
I would say that to other trans people too.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
So how do you envision like your future in terms
of gender identity and personal growth.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Gender identity and personal growth? Well, you know, like, obviously,
I'd like to have a good career in my chosen field.
I'd like to make a good amount of money. I
want to live in this like near the city or
in the city one day, that's my goal. I like
to be around core people, like I like to be
in queer areas. I'm not the type of person who
wants to like seek out adversity, you know, I'm not

(56:33):
marching in the streets. I'm just not that person. I'm
so grateful for those people with my community who want
to argue every single day, I really am, because that
means I don't have to, you know, So I guess
I just I would just want to be happy with
my people and live a good life. That's really it,
you know, I'm not a complicated person.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Do you want children?

Speaker 3 (56:54):
I do. I'd like to adopt.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
But if my partner wanted to, like, do IV for
themselves so we could do that too.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
I don't care. A tried as a child.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Okay, now this question you don't have to answer if
you don't want.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, but what he would he carry? That's what I
was thinking.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
No, no, because he already said he would have dot.
But like, do you are you gay or do you like.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I'm pantastical? I'm open. I don't.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
I never call myself fans like. I don't know why
I did it. Just now, I'm the worst place possible
to say that I'm bisexual.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
I'm open. I don't care.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Okay, just.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Exactly, Okay, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Do you have any more questions? Because I want a
dumb bitch story or simp series from Mike Keel.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Okay, So do you know I have any resources or
organizations you can recommend for those looking for support like
trans people or looked in order to learn about trans issues.
Do you know any community?

Speaker 4 (58:05):
I mean, if you are a trans person, there's a
ton of support groups out there, but one that I
keep getting emails for specifically is from an organization called Plume.
There where I get my my hormones from. You know,
they like ship.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
That was a question I had. I wanted to know
where you initially got your home hormone.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
Yes, they're expensive, you They ship basically nationwide, I believe,
except in like certain states where we're having like legality issues,
I believe. But they have a ton of like zoom
like call support groups and stuff to just talk about
things like give you information on how to legally change
your name. Things like that support for like people trying

(58:46):
to learn about trans people. I'm afraid I can't help.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Well that that's kind of good because that means you
haven't had like a whole bunch of adversity, like so
you don't know those groups.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
So that's good, And I mean I wouldn't say that,
but I just feel like.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
The trans men be chilling because you know, we don't.
You just don't be uptight like that. I just really
feel that way women, I'd be wilding.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Out, you know.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
I mean, no one's ever hurt me, but I've definitely
had some altercations here and there.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Let me ask you this, how is the experience in church?
Do you go to church? Do you feel like church
is a safe space as a trans person?

Speaker 3 (59:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Here's the thing, Like, I haven't been to church since
I was very little. I honestly it had nothing to
do with me being trans. One time, I like threw
up everywhere. My grandma never seen me back ever her again.
She was so embarrassed. I think I was really in it.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
But I don't know.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
When I'm around like church going people, like I said,
no one says anything to my face, No says anything
to my face.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Everyone's for light in cordial.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
Sometimes I feel like a person's treating me a little
meaner than they normally would it, and I just assume
that it's because of that.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
You know, but I nowhere really knowing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Right, it might just be that there, dickhead and not. Yeah,
it has nothing to do with you as a person.
Some people just just.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Me, yeah, anything else, like you wanted to share about
your experience or insight as a trans man.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
No, I think you guys asked a lot of really
good questions.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Okay, thank you, And I didn't offend at all, right,
not really, not really tell me, tell me what I
did offend on.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
It's not really offense.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
It's just like I don't know, like within like what
other tips people I know, Like we joke all the
time about the oh, identify as this joke?

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
What we joke about the joke? Exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
I identify as a rich It's like it's not even offensive.
It's just like all right, here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
But why we can't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Though, Like I'm confused, Like maybe it's not a joke today.
You know, tomorrow it might not be your joke, right,
I might really want to be a white man tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
I mean, what people have tried it. People try to
be transversial all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Rachel Dozel shout out to Rachel Joseel.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
You know we have the same birthday.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Oh really, now that's a fool right then, But she'd
be yelling.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
All right, So we're gonna go to commercial and we
come back. We're gonna get a SIMP series story from Michael.
We'll be right back dumbitch stories, so do because we've
all been a dumb bitch at least once or twice.
All right, y'all, we are back and Michael is going
to share his SIMP series story with us. Go ahead, Michael,

(01:01:48):
what happened?

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Well, back when I was in high school, I had
this this guy who sat in like the back of
the classroom from me, and I guess I'm gonna give
him a fake dam I'll call him. I'll call him Rick,
And you know Rick. He was hispanic, you know, very handsome,
and he was like short. I always really like short
guys because they don't make me feel short, because I

(01:02:12):
think he's about like five five. But this was like
in the middle of COVID, so like we're all wearing
our masks and everything, and I can barely see him,
but I think, you know, eventually, like I wrote The
Courage and I asked him for his phone numbers so
that like we could like chat and like be friends
or whatever. And we started texting for a while and
he was really nice, like very nice actually, and I
found his Instagram and stuff like that's what was the

(01:02:34):
actual face was like, and he had a very nice smile.
You know, I thought he was great. I had a
really big crush on this guy, and you know, he
respected my pronouns and everything. And I divided over to
my house one day and we were hanging out in
my room and like watching this like cartoon or whatever,
and he like, I don't know, he asked me like
a couple of like little questions here and there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
He was like, so how did.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
You know, like like what of people do you like?
Like just basically a lot of questions about my identity
and stuff like that, and I answered them all because
you know, I just I like to talk, you know,
like to have a little conversation. So I was completely
open with everything. And at some point during that time
he kissed me, and then he left and he went home,

(01:03:17):
right and like I think like a week later, he
came over again. He was like, so have you been
like who've you like told about this? And I was like,
is there people that I'm not supposed to tell about this?
She was like, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. I
just you know, I just wanted to know if, like,
you know, you've been like talking about this around with
like people or whatever. And at this point I'm like, oh, okay,

(01:03:38):
so this is a secret, like you don't want anybody
to know about this, And you know, I wish I
could say I stopped talking to him after that, but
I didn't, So it was it was like a little
a little secret for a while. But I guess that's
my big story for that, because that's embarrassing. After that,
I should have been lining.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
So I have a question about that, because maybe he
wasn't ready to be out, you know, does that make
would that make you feel like it's about you or
more about them?

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
You know a little bit of both, because he's the thing,
like it's so much about image, And it's always going
to be a slight when you feel like a person
doesn't want, like isn't proud to be seen with you specifically,
Like that's always gonna be something that's hurtful, especially when
you know the next person he was out with was
my friend, who is like the most like prettiest, skinny,

(01:04:33):
little white girl on the planet, you know, and it
it just feels like it's slight, it does you know?
I don't believe in out in anybody, tell anybody anybody's business.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
But yeah, it's always gonna be hurtful, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
No, I can feel that I can respect that, but
you never know, he might have wanted to be with
you but just felt like he couldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
You know, I believe I believe that too.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
You know. It's always hard for me to as like
this is one of my faults, Like it's hard for
me to empathize super well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
But because I was so out so.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
Early compared to a lot of other people, that it's
like hard for me to like imagine, like I'm scared.
I don't want anybody to know because I've just never
been able to hide. Really Like, I feel like I
feel like everybody knew before I knew, at least that
something was off about me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
In black families, we'd be knowing from birth.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
My mother told me that a client turned around in
her chair one day when she was doing her hair
and just said, you know, you know your daughter is gay?

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
I gotta be in like elementary school at this point,
maybe middle school, how do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
And I don't know, Well, you know what, I kind
of knew because when we would talk, you want to
talk about nothing but comic books and comic Con and
nothing else, nothing else. That's me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Yeah, that is just nurty.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
I didn't like I mean, he didn't like it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
I liked I liked Barbie's. I loved Barbie Dolls.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Very very young. You got over that quick.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
I just like to add stuff out. But that's probably
because because I'm a writer. That's probably where that came from.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
All Right, Michael, tell everybody where they can find you.
Plug anything that you're doing, anything that you want to
share where people go ahead and plug it for yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:06:15):
Okay, well, you can find me on Instagram at It's
spelled m y k E underscore e L, so it's
like my name, but add an extra E and put
it like an underscore between the e's at mike L.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
That's one more time. Because you're going to do it people,
you can m.

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
Y k E underscore e L on Instagram on Instagram
and they're attached to my website. I have a lot
of writing projects that I'd love to share. It's basically
that portfolio. So if you were going to work with me,
let me know, please shoot me an email.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
So what are you writing?

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
You write like scripts and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
I do.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
I also do creative writing. I do everything, also do journalism.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Do you look, what's the email? Though you didn't say
the email? What is it? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
Sorry, it's on the website.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Oh and what's the website?

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
It's attached to the instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
It's on the instagram. Now hold on, we already was
past that, right quick? Do you know how to use
final Draft?

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
I do? I have it?

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Period.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Okay, I'll be emailing you because do you mind? Can
I pay you to give me like a tutorial?

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Oh? Absolutely, yes, I need It's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Okay, Yes, I need help because I'm writing some stuff
and I've just been you know, just typing in regular
but I need to know how to properly format things like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Script for Oh absolutely, I can teach you all about her.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Yes, yay, now I'm excited.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
Okay, I'm a screen so like that was like my
first several classes when wow, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
So I mean I look, I look for some people
on Fiver, but I just you know, you just can't
be sure before you pay somebody. So yeah, I will
be contacting you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Thank you, Thank you for joining us, Mikel, and thank
you for sharing all this information with us. I really
really really appreciate you with the Aunties, with the Aunties
Millennial Aundies K A J.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
All right, y'all, So if you enjoyed this episode, y'all
tune in and this is the end.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Well we're yeah all right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
So if you enjoy this episode, y'all tune in every
Thursday on the Black Effect podcast I Heeart Radio, Apple
Web itough, fuck you get your podcast at This is
your co host, A J. Holiday. It's two point zero
on Instagrams follow me down if you won't get on.
What's up Tam Bam y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
I'm official Tam Bam on Instagram, y'all follow me. I
love y'all. Remember speak now and never hold your.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Your identity. Baby. This is For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
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