Undoing the Harm: An Overdue Discussion On Harm Reduction

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This week, Theo speaks with Amanda Nicholson and Max Flower about the pressing issue of harm reduction. We discuss how misinformation about harm reduction is weaponized against the unhoused and humane solutions for those struggling with addictions on the street are completely ignored. Amanda and Max share more about their work in building community and working with unhoused people, as well as their respective experience with houselessness and housing insecurity.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Great news.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Weadian House has been recognized as a nominee in the
Public Service Podcasting category at the Webby Awards, and we
need your help. From now to April seventeenth, you can
create an account and vote for Weedian House to win
the People's Choice Webby Award in this category by following
the link in our description. If you're a longtime fan

(00:25):
of this show, this is a great way to directly
support Median House and now enjoy the show.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Previously on Weedian House.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
So I have been in that vicious cycle of going
and coming through that revolving door. I was one of
the ones who came and went, came and went, came
and went, because it's never intended for me to get
a grip on things to get together. It's only meant
to lead me back. And so now what we're looking

(01:00):
and that are things and opportunities and programs that were
not offered to me that are coming out now to
be able to pull people off of that rotation that
they have built, that assembly line from keeping those machines rolling,
you know, which is the prison industrial complex.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Welcome back to Weisian House. I'm your host, Theo Henderson.
This is a continuation of the ELM series Educate, Liberate,
and Motivate with returning guests Amanda Nicholson and a new guest,
Max Flower. There's a lot to get into this week,

(01:57):
but first un house news. Our first story takes place
in the city of Industry, California. A judge has ordered
the removal of RVs on a private lot due to
complaints of unhoused residents taking refuge in the abandoned vehicles.
Nimbi neighbors complain of fires, trash accumulation, fights, drug usage,

(02:22):
and general uneasiness getting to their vehicles due to the
proximity of the unhoused near their cars. Predictably, law enforcement
was on hand to project the spirit of offering subpar
inadequate services and to post trespass notices. Our next story
lands US in San Jose, California, with their Mayor Matt Mayhon,

(02:48):
wanting to continue its targeted campaign on the unhoused by
clearing houseless camps near highways, freeways, and Caltrans sites. Mayor
Mayhan is interesting did in partnering with Caltrans to speed
up sweeps under Caltrans jurisdiction Senate Bill five six', nine
Which Mayor mayhan supports would give cities the abilities to

(03:12):
conduct sweeps On caltrans. Properties it, passed the state would
reimburse cities for. Sweeps Mayor mayhan states by giving cities
flexibility to Enter caltrans, jurisdiction offer, resources and conduct. Abatements
with state, reimbursement we can significantly reduce blight and public safety.

(03:32):
Risks San jose has roughly five, thousand five hundred people
living on the, streets and existing shelter beds of three
thousand are already. Full mayhan also said that thirty two
percent Of house's residents refuse shelter and are shelter. Resistance
our last story takes us To, Oakland. California flyers have

(03:55):
been posted to evict the unhoused encampment At Lake Merrick.
Park City Work cruise planned to spend the entire month
Of april removing the unhoused, there replacing them with, trees,
fencing and other. Plants the entire park will be closed
into the. Fall an estimate of four five hundred and
eighty five people lack permanent housing In. Oakland there are

(04:17):
a thousand fewer shelter beds available in the. City in
addition to, this two prominent shelters will be closing their
doors at the end Of june twenty twenty. Five it
seems like deja vu WHEN i saw this Title To Understand,

(04:39):
Homelessness listen To Homeless. People WHEN i started my, PODCAST
i was introduced by The Los Angeles times with a similar,
title and that is where the similarity. Ends this current,
editor which was written By Carler, hall talk full of
words like Homeless, people a work WHICH i. Issue she

(05:00):
begins her. Journey she recounts people in various stages of,
houselessness unexpected outcomes and unanswered, questions which ironically is weedy
And house's aim to uplift voices of the. Unhoused the
quick truncated takes given by the writers show where she
misses the moment for. Starters houselessness is not a monolith

(05:22):
and require a constant vigilance against stereotypes enforced By nimbi's
and at times from some unhoused people. THEMSELVES a good
example is devoting done by people in favor of, deportation
only to have themselves to be. DEPORTED i coin this
type of behavior an investment in their own, depression taking

(05:44):
it a step, FURTHER i also add that there is
an unspoken belief system of worthy or unworthy unhoused. People
it is constantly reinforced by our city officials into garnering
punitive measures and ordinances against the vulnerable post. Population we
don't have to look any further to find ourselves in
this current. Predicament then with the la, fires people refuse

(06:07):
to donate to the existing unhow once they found out
that services was going to be rendered to. Them our
society has been steeped into the thought process of shaming
and blaming vulnerable people for the calamities that have befallen.
Them if you can demonize a human, being you can
certainly criminalize. THEM i have always said when the editor

(06:27):
wrote this, PIECE i believe she was operating in a
space to raise awareness about the differences of unhoused. People
but she doesn't go far enough to remove the dirt
from under the welcome, back and so the dirt and dust.
Remains the question, becomes how do you get to understand
the unhoused? Community, Well i'm glad you asked On weedi

(06:49):
And HOWE'S i have taken the painstaking effort to create
an atmosphere to uplift the voices of unhoused. PEOPLE i
have even added this Series, Educate, liberate And motivate to
add a more nuanced exploration of these. Topics in, closing
WHEN i end my conversations with let us meet in
a light of, UNDERSTANDING i mean for us to do

(07:12):
the work on a sustained. Level i'll leave you with
a quote From James, Baldwin ignorance alive with power is
the most ferocious enemy justice can.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Have and that's On House.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
News when we come, back we will be speaking With
amanda And. Max welcome back To Weedian. House I'M Theo.
Henderson if you've been following the most recent episodes of the,

(07:46):
show we have been engaging in AN elm, Series, Educate,
liberate And. Motivate these next guests personify the essence of this.
Acronym let us welcome returning, Guests Amanda nicholson and our new,
Guest Max, Flower, welcome and you're dropping in and having

(08:07):
an exciting. Episode this topic is going to cover a
myriad of, things but the general idea is to have a, learning,
educate liberate and motivate, series And i'm educating the masses
on the realities of what houselessness Face i'm liberating you
to start to educate people in your known sphere of

(08:29):
influence and sphere of, connection And i'm motivating you to
make the necessary adjustments and the necessary forward movements in
being able to be a responsible citizen to effect change
on a global. Scale with that, said we're having the studios,
Today Max flower And Amanda. Nicholson they are two important

(08:53):
people in the, movement BUT i don't Think i'm going
to do justice in introducing. Them i'm going to allow
both of them to tell those briefly about. Themselves So
i'm going to, start if you don't, mind with You,
amanda and Then, max and then we'll start the round
robin kind of. Discussion So, amanda you're.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
ON.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Hi thank you so MUCH theo for inviting us to.
Speak my name Is, Amanda as you, Said Amanda. NICHOLSON
i am a Native New yorker AND i moved TO
la during the, pandemic which was a crazy time to move,
anywhere BUT i made it. WORK i have a lot

(09:32):
of experience in a lot of different. Fields i've tried
a lot of, hustles but over the past five, years
through my own experience navigating housing and, stability engaging, services
trying to get what you need so that you can
live life, well fulfilled and. ENJOYABLE i managed to resolve

(09:54):
my own, homelessness AND i was trying to count it's
like a year and a, half maybe like eighteen. Months
and since Then i've supported a couple other folks and
advocating to be permanently.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
Housed and from THERE.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
I started teaching workshops and really dove headfirst into showing
other people How i've, navigated WHAT i, said WHAT i,
requested how many BUTTONS i pushed just to see what
could best kind of support their. Needs and Now i'm
moving into the space of being a bit of a

(10:27):
speaker at conferences as.

Speaker 5 (10:29):
Well so that's pretty.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Exciting how, important if you don't mind me, asking how
important is it to have your self advocacy in navigating
this quagm heart of.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Houselessness at the end of the, day no one knows
what you need better than, you you, know and, unfortunately
these services and systems are shaped to tell you what you,
need what you, deserve what you qualify, for and quickly
try to filter out what they don't think is a
good fit for. You, unfortunately that's often to people's detriment

(11:00):
because they're not looking for supporting independent living in many,
cases regardless of what circumstances led to your houseless, state
and certainly not to see you flourish as the person
you want to be outside of A w two.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
Employee i'll, say let's turn our attention Into Max Max.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Europe what can we know about?

Speaker 4 (11:22):
You?

Speaker 6 (11:22):
Hi my name Is max And i've been working in
healthcare and human services for thirteen. Years i'm currently a
case manager in The Los angeles. AREA i work with
folks who have been unhoused and have also gone through.
INCARCERATION i work with folks who are also trans, people

(11:46):
people who use, drugs all types of folks that come
from different. BACKGROUNDS i am also AN la native and
had to learn how to navigate housing instability throughout my early.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Twenties, well you made a perfect, Segue so we're going
to talk ABOUT i don't want to say the elephant
in the, room BUT i do think because it's not
given the attention it, needs many people think on house
people or all of them are on. Substances but can
we talk about this openly and honesty about the ones

(12:21):
that are on substances and how you've met the moment
and what things that you do to help people get
off of the substances or help them try to retain
their dignity as well as getting housing as.

Speaker 6 (12:36):
Well, yeah SO i want to say that a lot
of the people THAT i started with specifically will stick
to the past year and a half Where i've done case,
Management LIKE i, said with people who are in reentrigu
and also are. Unhoused you, know all the folks THAT
i met that were on the, street they want. Housing

(12:59):
there was never an issue of, oh do you want
to go inside or do you not want to go?
Inside they all wanted a home and they built community
with those. Outside you, know this community, specifically we will
say that people do use, drugs and even though they use,
drugs they are some of the most kind hearted People i've.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
Met they were always.

Speaker 6 (13:24):
Looking out for each, other like do you need?

Speaker 5 (13:26):
This do you need?

Speaker 6 (13:27):
That it's going to, rain you, know let's do a tarp,
Hey you, know LIKE i build a shower. Outside and
it was all about meeting them where they were at
and being able to take them. PLACES i think a
lot of the folks THAT i supported in getting, housing
it was about showing.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
Up it sounds very.

Speaker 6 (13:48):
Easy to go get AN id or go get A
Social security, Card but when you don't have a, car
it makes it very. Complicated or when you have disabilities
or like just being able to leave your stuff out,
there it's very. Difficult somebody has to watch your things
and make sure that you don't get. Robbed all those,
folks you, know WHEN i showed, up they would show.

Speaker 5 (14:09):
Up it was.

Speaker 6 (14:10):
Never really a time where it felt, Like, GOD i
have to like drag you to go do YOUR id
OR i have to drag you to go.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Do this like they.

Speaker 6 (14:19):
Were they wanted it so bad and they were out
there for so, long since a lot of them since
they were, teenagers they started very, young that they didn't
have a. House and SO i do want to say
that this stereotype that people who use drugs don't want
housing is a. Lie it's a very very big. Lie

(14:42):
and actually being outside makes you use more drugs because
you have to deal with the weather and just different
circumstances that come.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Up one of the things THAT i also wanted to
point out, too is we have a very zero policy
of being on. Substances for, example In Sanford's, cisco they
are targeting people that are doing and they say open
drug market kind of. Environments but the issue is this
is that we don't have humane. Solutions we have like

(15:12):
house people believe once you just arrest, people that's the
end of the. Problem and that's the, usual the knee jerk,
response and most, importantly that's what the mayors and the
city leaders and the police always. Advocate but the substances
usually a symptom to a larger. Issue people are using
it to self medicate or be able to cope with
the insecurities or instabilities that living out on the street.

(15:36):
Entails so what do you find that would helped when
we introduce the conversation of harm? Reduction what is harm
reduction and why is it so? Important and what can
we do as a society to start to educate ourselves on.

Speaker 6 (15:49):
That, YEAH i think harm reduction has been one of
my favorite things to learn. About i'm very grateful that
it came into my life BECAUSE i come from a
back ground where it was religious and you're kind of
just told don't have, sex don't do, drugs you, know
and it's not. Realistic those things are just not and

(16:13):
society you can't just tell people to say no and stay.
Abstinate you, KNOW i think the reality is that harm
reduction can be applied to all parts of. Things whether
it's like giving someone a condom for them to have protected,
sex whether it's giving them items that are like clean

(16:34):
needles or clean. Pipes these things help reduce the harm
from you, know different health care conditions that can be
caused through those. Things BUT i think more, importantly when
you provide these type of equipment to help with harm,
reduction you provide a safe space for people to be

(16:56):
actually able to talk to you about what's really going
on because they don't feel like they have to hide
who they are or they have to hide that they're doing.
Drugs like WHEN i have provided harm reduction, supplies this
has given me the door open to just having some
of the most real conversations with. FOLKS i feel like

(17:17):
they were comfortable enough with telling me things about themselves
because they didn't feel LIKE i was here to judge.
Them and they were also even more open to feedback
because they didn't feel Like i'm here telling them what to.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
DO i think that we.

Speaker 6 (17:34):
Can't address this elephant of addiction without addressing, trauma and
without addressing multiple layers like anti, blackness people living in,
poverty not enough. Resources there's all these other layers as
to why people turn to drugs and harm. Reduction you

(17:56):
meet the person where they're. AT i don't tell them
what they, NEED i don't tell them who they have to.

Speaker 5 (18:02):
BE i just show. UP i.

Speaker 6 (18:04):
CARE i show them THAT i, Care and simply by
showing them THAT i, care they will start seeing how
they deserve to be treated by other.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
PEOPLE i want to add to that that you, know
harm reduction applies to so many areas of your. Life
it isn't solely the physical objects that you can provide to,
somebody because Like max was, saying it can be the
framework can be applied to everything from disordered heating habits
to even the ways in which we operate systems to

(18:37):
not perpetuate harmful. Experiences and so to shout out to
The National Harm Reduction, coalition BECAUSE i took certifications that
are free for all Of california's residents to really understand
more deeply the framework and how it. Applies and a
huge part of really integrating harm reduction into any kind
of work that you, do no matter what the population,

(18:59):
is is honoring.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
That everything's on a.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Spectrum you, know we live in this world of black and,
white and even in some surveys and forms that they'll
give you at the, doctor if you report using certain
substances one time in the past, year they consider that.
Addiction but that's not a reality for. People lots of
people are being curious and trying things and navigating the,
world and there's a spectrum of what a substance use

(19:25):
really is that goes from total abstinence all the way
to problematic. Use and if there's no acknowledging those people in,
between then you can't serve those. People and, statistically while
lots of people may use, substances the vast majority actually
aren't in a problematic use. Situation they might be in
an habituation. Situation it might be that thing they do

(19:46):
every day to make sure that they clean their, house
or they put up a face to deal with the
world to not cry about their, circumstances or whatever the situation.
Is so it's important that harm reduction is looked at
through many, lenses that it kind of looks at your
life as well as like the range of people and
what kind of experiences they're having in their life as

(20:08):
they do things you.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Know on that very, Topic i'm going to have asked
both of you for your perspectives ON i recently had
a medical, emergency medical, scare and it's funny you mentioned
that BECAUSE i had to fill out a form now
and this is WHERE i had a problem with. It
it's like they, asked you, know how often you?

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Drink what do you?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Drink and the question was so, loaded like, well even
if you did, drink it seemed like it was already
judgment and. Prepared IF i had SAID i do, drink
then they would, have like you, said maybe it sound
LIKE i was an. Addict i'm, like you, know it's
not couched or it's not presented in a way that
you won't be used against.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
It AND i could not.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Help but WHEN i was, Saying i'm, like you know
what IF i had substitutes or IF i was an
alcoholic AND i wanted to get the, help this strike
would be a strike against, me because you, Know i'm,
LIKE i don't suffer from these. Maladies but you, KNOW
i had a, drink like you, know the past several,
months but that was a one drink in a celebratory.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Fashion but they don't mention.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
It in that way it mentioned it is like it's
zeroing in or like you're in a. Attic SO i
do see that that's the issues that really needs to
be explored when we're dealing in the helping. Profession BUT
i also wanted to point out another side of the
conversation That i've noticed WHEN i was in house and
living from training stop this train stop during the in clinic,

(21:29):
weather AND i NOTICED NCA ceo In New york mentioning
that they don't want the passengers to see the unhoused
community lighting up or smoking up or whatever they're doing
on the trains or it's a rolling as you call,
it a rolling home homeless train where there's a bunch
of people who are using these. Systems do you think

(21:53):
that because of the judgment of substances that it makes
it difficult to create these harm reduction centers or places
where people can be safe to be able to do
the things they need to get off or weing themselves
off of the substances plays a part and why it
is such a taboo.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Subject.

Speaker 6 (22:13):
Thanks, YEAH i definitely do think that it plays a,
role which is is so funny because like THE us
doesn't want to open any place that is like safe
consumption like you see in other. Countries but we have,
bars you, know where you can go buy alcohol and drink.

(22:33):
Together and now In Los angeles we have weed lounges
where you can go smoke weed. Together AND i feel,
like because of all this judgment and people just, saying,
well we just need to get everybody sober and that's
the end of, that you're not allowing for all of
these other things that need to happen and take. Place
because if people did have safe spaces to use their,

(22:57):
drugs they would go to those safe, spaces have to
use them outside because there is no safe space for
them to Use and SO i think when we have
all this, judgment we're putting our own barriers to fixing
the problem because we want this black and white. Solution
Like amanda has said, before it's, like, no just be,

(23:18):
sober and it's, Like, okay being sober in this world
is just not. Possible and there could be some people
who could be sober and choose that, lifestyle AND i
believe that you can, really you, know work towards that
if that's something that you. Want but to put this
on everybody else and then not even provide them the
help that they. Need there's not enough mental health, beds

(23:41):
there's not enough, treatment the type of. Treatment we've been
doing it for years and years and, years and we're
still doing that same type of. Treatment it's like we
get in our own, way and that sucks because there's
a lot of great solutions out, there and for those
of you who might not be open to, THAT i
really would suggest like looking at a national Harm reduction

(24:03):
coalition because they teach you the. Principles and also this
movie Called love and The time Of fetanel which talks
about a safe consumption place that is happening In.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Canada, YES i THINK i interviewed earlier on in my
show that they were talking about. It they have a
van or something and they have places where they allow
people to able to safely he talks themselves and use
safe sites to do able to do.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
That But, amanda you're.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
Next, FIRST i want to, say you, know kind of
jumping back a little bit to the point you made
of the questionnaire that you got when you were at you,
know receiving health, services occasionally having a drink or any
substance maybe in.

Speaker 5 (24:46):
A social setting like that's social use that's.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
More kind of relying and dependent upon who you're around
and what you're doing or casually. Doing things like those
are the kind of markers within that spectrum THAT i
was talking. About we completely have sanctioned social, drinking and you,
KNOW i reflect on my life AND i had for
so long wished to go to a standard four year

(25:10):
university and live on, campus and that really didn't pan
out for me the WAY i had. Planned And i'm
so grateful because the level of excessive drinking culture that
is completely normalized within the collegiate. Sphere but then we
talk about addiction like we set people up to have
addiction through normalizing let's get, hammered let's get black out,

(25:32):
drunk and turning into a phrase white girl, wasted and
acting like it's sanctioned simply because alcohol is something that
you can purchase, legally and if it is something like
cannabis wasn't until recently that you can't purchase in a, legal,
standardized taxed. Way now it's something much more devious and.
Demonic max AND i had the opportunity to, teach which

(25:56):
we didn't really explain what we do, together but we
do our work independently and we all come together specifically
to do trainings and speak at, conferences and the conference
that we spoke at In San jose back In, november
we specifically talked about integrating harm reduction into interim housing
for that reason because so many people understand that if

(26:17):
they agree to live in this hotel room, situation, whatever
that now they have to instantly be in a sobriety,
program and how that doesn't, serve you, know their own
progression in determining what's best for their. Lives there's some
people that till the day they, die they may use.
Substances but does that mean that it has to be

(26:38):
a level of substance use that interferes with their ability
to take care of themselves or cause harm to themselves
or other.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
People, no it.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Doesn't there's all kinds of people doing all kinds of,
things you, Know so it was really important for us
to recommend safe consumption. Sites and another thing you MENTIONED
theo specifically About New, york which, is you, know my,
hometown AND i know what it's like to be of
the house population and seeing the unhoused people and being, LIKE.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
I got to get out this train. Car this isn't
the one for.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Me and while we can pass judgment on those, people you,
know there really aren't a lot of places for you
to exist when you're on. Housed and that is one
of the beautiful lessons that being on house during the
pandemic taught. Me it's because if it's bad already turned
up the fear.

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Mongering during the.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
Pandemic to even just be in the presence of another,
person it really isolated me in such a unique way
where basic human functions like using the restroom were now
impossible endeavors that required like either you, know destroying public
property in some capacity or arguing with. People AND i
wasn't going to argue with people every day THAT i

(27:46):
have to, Pee, Like i'm just going to go do
my business and live my, life you. Know So New
york does have a safe consumption site through an, organization
and we reference them in our. Presentation but we make
the argument that if you stop being so patronizing on.
People first of, all people are going to do what
they want to. Do you can thank all the rules

(28:06):
that you, want and people will still meet their end
in the ways that they, can because that's human. Nature
but also if you remove some of the fear, mongering
you remove some of the ultimate judgment and the. Separation
there were so many people in the hotel THAT i
lived in that died of, overdoses that simply could have

(28:27):
lived if somebody would have won kind of had a
hint that this is something that this person, does and
two would have had narcan and other resources are on
site another form of harm reduction to support. Them and
so we make it so people don't even want to
receive help because the judgment is so interwoven into the.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Help we'll continue this conversation after this break and we're.
BACK i remember and during the pandemic there were a
couple of residents that were in one of the tiny
sheds over In, chinatown and there was people or groups

(29:07):
going to those tiny sheds bringing narcan and information to
help people that were doing. It but the staff threw
all of the harm reduction materials away as soon as
they left and maintain that no substance usage of policies in.
There and that also helped create which leads into another point,

(29:28):
too and sometimes THAT i noticed in some of the
mutual aid GROUPS i have been, around some embrace the
harm reduction, models but sometimes in the neighborhoods that they're
in the vitul and the disdain for people that are
on substances kind of mute or newter the conversation or
newters the help in order for them to have honest.

(29:50):
Conversation so in a way they're hamstrung because we are
not at the precipice where we need to have the.
Conversation i've always believed that how those and unhoused people
need to be trained IN narcan training because we've known
for some time that many of the house celebrities could
have benefited from SOME narcan training OR narcan intervention when they,

(30:13):
like for, example the Recent gentlemen From friends that passed
away From fitnel in his, home or the other superstars
that we see like the gentleman from The WIRE i
believe it's name Is MICHAEL. K.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Williams you.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Know so these conversations are not going to happen outside
out of tandem unless we force the issue or advance
the conversation in situations like. This but it's important to
understand that we all need if we learning first aid
AND cpr for, people we need to understand that substances
are not going to go. Away people are still going
to use, them and we may be called upon ourselves

(30:48):
to be able to aid someone that we know WITH
narcan training or other type of, training they help to
save their.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Lives you, KNOW i feel that you made a poignant
statement THEIR theo just referencing these. Celebrities let me, say
in no uncertain, terms people who have houses use drugs full.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
Stop you.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Know so it's not a matter of people are doing
these things solely because they're, unhoused or them doing these
things is the sole kind of reasoning for why they
became one.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
House only.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Differences you don't see them when they're in their house doing.
That you don't know. That you, know all these celebrities
that we've witnessed pass away from overdoses over the past
just thirty years, alone aren't at the end of the, day,
human just like the person living in their, tent just
like the person living in an interim housing. Site and
so instead of acting like there's this hierarchy of qualified

(31:45):
people only if you have a fancy title and a
big paycheck and a fancy, house are you now.

Speaker 5 (31:51):
Deserve the right to have those.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Experiences that's just not realistic to the, world because let's
say AND i had this conversation recently with A uber.
Driver say you want to get housed IN la you
want to move to another? Place it costs with first
and last month's rent and moving fees and all the.
Preparations you're looking at almost an eight to ten thousand dollars.
Investment person may not have eight to ten thousand, dollars

(32:15):
but if they got twenty, dollars.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
At least they might have a good.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
Day at LEAST i can get to tomorrow and not
want to quite literally end their life simply because they
don't see a future in, sight you. Know and it's
very bleak once you lose that connection to permanent housing
to imagine that life can go back to. Normal and
even in my own, case you, KNOW i fought very

(32:39):
hard to get housed BECAUSE i was very accustomed to
a completely different life than that of being on. House
but it doesn't mean that there wasn't still the pain
of EVERYTHING i went, through all of the, judgment all the,
disrespect and the being kind of put in the run.

Speaker 5 (32:57):
Around all of those things impact your.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Experience so what are we doing to support people just
in the belief that they can be, housed that it is,
possible and that they're deserving of. It one of the
fundamental principles of harm reduction is health and, dignity like
you actually have to treat people like they, matter not
like their some of the years of abusing the, System

(33:20):
why would anybody want your help if that's how you treat.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Them you, know it's funny you say, that BECAUSE i
also wanted to expand it more than just the, substances
because ever SINCE i was a younger, PERSON i have
always battled with the statements about my weight and because
of me and my issues, TROUBLES i stress eat and
it's because of, trauma AND i don't need to go

(33:44):
into much of, detail but the fact of the matter
is that it was expanded further because WHEN i was stress,
EATING i get depressed and down because now getting a little,
bigger and Then i'm noticing that And i'm blaming myself
because it did help having immediate close friends and family
ridiculing it or making it seeming like that they were

(34:06):
giving tough love or they were trying to help, me
which in essence was, harm AND i got gas like
into thinking. That even, Today i'm very very sensitive about
when people mention about my weight or IF i lose,
weight because then it starts off this whole paranoia is you,
KNOW i don't want people to judge me IF i

(34:26):
do pick up a few pounds because you don't know
what's going.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
On you don't know what the Struggles i'm going.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Through And i'm not going to Say i'm not going
to equate that with people on. Substances BUT i do
understand that there is a common link within our. Society
we're a blaming and shaming. Society we're very devoid of,
empathy and we don't understand that we navigate this life
the best we can and with the best tools we
can and the best way we, can and a lot

(34:53):
of times because we've set up this system of purity or,
perfection that we find ways to chisel at people's self,
esteem or people's ways of, life or people's solutions to
coping with trauma and stressful situations in the most diligerious
way is.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Possible, Max do you have anything to, Say.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
YEAH i definitely agree with.

Speaker 6 (35:16):
You, FIRST i just want to say thank you so
much for being vulnerable to even talking about. THAT i
think men also go through body, shaming AND i think
it's awesome that you're like brave to like talk about,
that because it is hurtful to constantly be critiqued about
how you. LOOK i think it's really. SAD i think

(35:40):
the thing that got me very depressed AS i got
older is, that like growing up as a, KID i
was always around, SERVICES i was always around, sports things
that like help kind of build you, Right and SO
i had this mentality that this world was full of
love and And i'm very thankful THAT i did have that.

(36:03):
Lens and AS i got, OLDER i just started to
see how much our society shames people and doesn't humanize.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
People and even in.

Speaker 6 (36:13):
The services THAT i, provide going with folks to know
The section eight office or THE ebt, office or going
to the grocery store or the, doctor AND i see
how they get discriminated against has been very. Heartbreaking it's
heartbreaking to see that people are just constantly being judged

(36:36):
all the.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Time and we all have our.

Speaker 6 (36:38):
Biases even for, MYSELF i know THAT i have, biases
AND i think we need to be open to seeing
like what is my? Bias where does that come, from
and really challenging ourselves on really seeing in the mirror
where your. Biases until we start doing, that, LIKE i
think things aren't going to. Change and that's WHY i

(37:01):
think it's so important to like self reflect and see
where you make your own, mistakes where you might even
have anti blackness. THOUGHTS i think that a lot of
people don't realize that they have all of these things
because they don't they're embarrassed or they don't want to be.
Canceled BUT i think the reality is is like we

(37:23):
just need to embrace that we're not. Perfect AND i
think that's what's been so. HARD i think sometimes even
in religion is that like let's go to that lens of, like,
well you, know you have to follow all these rules
And god says, this And god says, that AND i don't.
Understand why can't we focus On god's?

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Love?

Speaker 6 (37:45):
Then why don't we ever really focus on that? Part
and SO i think in, general in order for us
to keep moving forward and changing culture is just being more.
Caring People just care about people around. You and if
you don't understand, something then that's. Fine you don't, understand

(38:09):
go ask someone for, help go try to learn, something
because that's the only way that you're really going to
be able to Help and support your, family your, friends your,
coworkers your, customers is by trying to learn how to
be more.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Empathetic one of the things That i've noticed about council
culture is one of the things is because of the.
PUSHBACK i get annoyed WHEN i hear people, say, well
people could take a joke back in the day and
people could you, know people wasn't so. Sensitive AND i
think the way council culture has taken roots so much

(38:45):
is because of the pushback and the resistance for people
to leave the shackles of. Ignorance it's much more comfortable
to stay ignorant because it's. Safe you know the, structure
you know the, walls and you can stay there and
you can be proud of. It and you could you
know the person that you're, harming you, know you can
condition yourself to not care or don't you, know you're
just telling them like it is or if The bible says,

(39:07):
it or whatever it is in order for you to.
Justify but if you have to take the step into the,
known as you, Know i'm putting on my teacher hat
when you step into like WHEN i you, know teach
students something to, do like a new polynomials or something
a new concept Of english that they have to use
context clues or induction or deduction or deductive. Reasoning it's

(39:30):
scary because you, know the box of information or the
box or your thought or limited, information and it's. Comfortable
but WHEN i push you to, okay now it's time
to add a new, tool or it's time for you
to disabuse something that is not rooted in empathy or educational.
Enlightenment then people become, predictable you, know you, know defensive

(39:55):
and judgmental in order for them to cover up their own,
inadequacies and they look for followers to consider to reinforce
that deleterious kind of.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Thinking anything you going to, yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
You, know specifically on cancel. Culture and it's such a
fine line BECAUSE i think the kinds of harm that
we cause influence how that harm needs to be. Addressed,
right and so like IF i walked in the studio
AND i, harmed you feel you.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Have every right to, like you, know you can't come
up from my studio no.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
MORE i don't know where you can, go but you
can't come.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Here right, right and in the same, Way and we
had kind of talked about this before today's airing and
this taping is that we communities particularly AND i want
to speak about organizing spaces because it's either we're all
kumbaya or so and so is. Canceled where is the
room to talk about conflict? Resolution you, know sometimes it's

(40:52):
one thing if we're organizing and we have beef with
the people who have completely different views than. US i
can see how you may be made some crash jokes
and kind of cut ass.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
ON i can see.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
That but if the person is your, partner what kind
of conflict are you trying to have with that person
or an organizing, person or your, family or like someone
you want to have a relationship. With how can you
have conflict without saying something that makes the person never
want to speak to you. Again like what level of
interaction and love and respect for that person do you,

(41:24):
Have because you're gonna have beef with, anybody you can
be mad at, anybody but a level of we just
don't deal with these people or we'll just never get
past this. Hurdle you, know three of us witnessed that
firsthand a couple of years ago in an organizing, community
and what for me was the most heartbreaking Is it's,

(41:46):
like in the one, hand you tell people how they hurt,
you they are. Defensive they don't want to hear. It
they just want to shrug and be, like, WELL.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
I was doing my. THING i didn't think about.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
That but then there's no loving attempt to be, like
But i'm SORRY i hurt, you BUT i want to
move forward. Together and that really comes down to how
we treat. People we can't treat people who are quote
unquote on our side with a level of vitrol like
they are the equivalent of the, enemy, right because then

(42:15):
you have nobody that's actually on your. Side you're just
looking for. Fights some People shade No, shade come into
organizing just because they like to pick. Fight and then
now you're picking fights with people you're sitting next to
and they look. Confused and if somebody calls you in and, says,
hey what you said or did was anti, black what
you did was, transphobic what you did was xyz impact

(42:36):
on the, community maybe you're centering all of a certain
type of people in the space instead of. Reflecting everybody
just wants to double, down and that's what's not moving
the needle forward for. Us everybody's laughing at leftists right
now because we're the only ones that quote unquote can't get.
Along BUT i think that's because we. Don't we're not
investing ourselves in the getting, along you.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
KNOW i think too we or so programmed to fight
all the time because we are fighting. Injustice we're fighting
this and like in my own experience with the challenges
that we've, had is like before it became this big blowout,
thing it could have taken a simple you, KNOW i,
Apologize i've harmed.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
You this was not my intention and it would have been.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
None but, unfortunately like in the, spaces they were loud and,
wrong they reinforced the loud and, wrong they started. INTIMIDATING i,
mean it's like it became all of the toxic things
that we were supposed to be espousing, against and then
all of a, sudden after all of, that then they
want to do the Fake kumbaya or the well we
need each. Other we just need to do this in their.

(43:40):
Context and if you've done something, wrong you don't do your.
Contexts you do the context.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Into what you.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Are you were loud and wrong to be loud and
right in speaking out on what you, did and you
asked for and the. Whole that's WHAT i WHAT i,
found and now That i've got some, distance before it
was say affecting make which introduce more stress. Eating BUT
i won't go. There but the point is that is

(44:07):
what the long and short of it. Is it's like
we as a community are blaming and shaming society and
what it is showing in the leftist communities that we
are not, immune we're not above the, fray.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
And we need to instill that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Understanding you, know we didn't you, know we don't always
have to go to war chopping off the person's. Head
we can be able to, say you know, what let's
take a pause for a. MINUTE i think our tempers
are getting getting a little bit out of. Control AND
i know this is not my attempt to alienate, you
AND i know you're not trying to insult. Me so
let's take the moment to take a breath and let

(44:40):
me think on, whatever and then we will come back
and have a more equable or more harmonious discussion in
order to get into. Solution BECAUSE i hate to, say
it's BECAUSE i always been speaking about we don't need,
everybody but we do need the people that who have
aligned ourselves in the same spirit of trying to overthrow
the major isms of the. World but you, know LIKE i,

(45:03):
said you'll hear me very rarely say, it Because i've
seen people twist that gaslighting and harming people with saying
that after extreme harm is done then they're running, trotting
and somehow the person just ignore it or you, know
or dismissed it because we need. Everybody, no you, know
that's WHERE i want to take a pan and crash
you on the. Head but because it's, like you, know

(45:25):
that is not AND i left, Too like with, You,
MAX i left the cult a religious cult as, well
and the warp. Thinking So i've been very careful Because
i'm very succeptible to trusting and believing in institutions that
they don't mean. Harm And i've been so gullible and
not understanding THAT i have to have some filters BEFORE

(45:48):
i just go you, know willy nilly and just you,
know kumbay, y'all you, know all of that kind of.

Speaker 6 (45:52):
Things so, YEAH i definitely think just in, general sitting
with the uncomfortableness that it feels when you do cause somebody.

Speaker 5 (46:01):
HARM i, know for, me WHEN i call someone.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
HARM i feel so much, Shame Like i'll be constantly
just like almost talking bad to myself and feeling all
this guilt and worry of like what are people going
to think about? ME i think that's what a lot
of people who make mistakes sometimes maybe their mind goes
to of LIKE i don't want people to think That

(46:25):
i'm not, this OR i don't want people to start
thinking bad about. Me AND i think as just like
a society and, individuals we need to kind of sit
with that discomfort because it is. Uncomfortable nobody wants to
be the bad, guy even the people who are technically,
Canceled LIKE i think that's why some people get so

(46:46):
upset of, like, YEAH i got, canceled because they don't
even want to be the bad. Guy they don't want
to be the one that's. HATED i like to believe
still that most humans have this want to be accepted
and to be loved and to be in community with.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
People and SO i do think that the only way we.

Speaker 6 (47:05):
Get past some of the harm or some of the
conflicts is reflecting within yourself what that person is saying
you did to, them even if it's, uncomfortable even if they're,
wrong even if they're wrong for a, second just, understanding
like people can still be right because you might SAY
i didn't do that OR i didn't make you feel that.

(47:27):
Way you can't say that the person is wrong on
how you made them feel. Like it's just not going
to work that. Way you have to sit with the
uncomfortableness and at the same, time, like we can't just
dismiss things and be, like, well let's move, On like
that's not how it works in. Relationships If i'm with
my partner AND i hurt my partner on, SOMETHING i

(47:48):
can't just be, like get over. It i'm sure parents
can't just tell their kids get over. It what starts
to create and that is resentment and more harm because
now you're just, like, okay like rub some dirt on,
it get, up hurry.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Up and AND i don't.

Speaker 6 (48:05):
KNOW i would rather prefer being sensitive towards.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
People we'll be right, BACK i, felt quick, break welcome.
Back this Is Theel henderson With weedie And. House here's
the rest of my conversation With amanda And. MAX i
remember what made me get into education BECAUSE i knew the,

(48:28):
headiness the joy when you comprehend. Something BUT i did
not like how my background it made It like IF
i didn't know the. ANSWER i come from the old school,
parenting they, would you, know yell and beat the hell
out of you, to you, know until you Get like for,
example If johnny got five apples and you took one

(48:48):
and a halfles away and you, said you, know how
many apples you?

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Have like?

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Seven you, know just so there's been skits about, it
but you, know SO i grew up in that, era
and you, know most of the parents of that generation
was taught the same, way and they didn't know any.
Better but the thing it is is that in order
for people to sit with, it they have to understand
their origin.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Story you.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Know that's WHY i think there's such a disconnect with
the older. Generation they don't want to take the courage
to look back at their own upbreaking and then, say you,
know that might not have been the best way to do,
it AND i recycle, that and now someone's breaking the
cycle and want to, say you know this harm let's
not do, this let's not bring this. Forward AND i

(49:30):
think too a lot of times in the movement with
the generational thing, too it's they're not used to being
called to account by people that consider their. Youngers you.
Know that's another THING i noticed. Too it's like they
weren't raised that. Way they were the only raised that
the elders could do no wrong even if they were,

(49:52):
wrong or they would give statements that, well they just
did the best they could and just they think that
was going to be the salve over the broken. Leg
you jacked. Up you have to ignore all of the
harm and things of that. Nature so now THAT i
have gotten a little winter on my head THAT i
look at like and knowing, that what motivated me to
start teaching and being the teacher.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
WAS i am not going to teach about cutes like.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
This i'm not going to teach my students like this
BECAUSE i know how hard and how much harmful and
much more hard work it takes to reach that educational.
Enlightenment and when you get people to work through the
deal processes without shame and without harm and not beat
the hell out of, them it's much more rewarding because
you don't have to you don't have to do. It

(50:37):
there is a better, way AND i think that's what
the theory. Is they feel that if you don't enflorence
physical violence or enforce some kind of violence in some
type of form that that's not. Effective you're not going
to be a self actualized. Person BUT i may.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Digress, NO i appreciate you saying, that because you, know twofold,
one so many generations had completely soaked up and enjoyed.

Speaker 5 (51:04):
This the elders are always right kind of motto.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
And mantra that we've been running with for so long
and never creating space to say elders have space to
learn and grow. Too we all are constantly learning and.
Growing and you, Know i'm very fortunate my mom in.
Particular sure she you, know gave me typical black mom experience,
too but she genuinely would let me. Talk she actually

(51:29):
would listen her bullshit dollar and there was space for
a little bit of.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Shit SO i got to ask.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
QUESTIONS i got to on a rare, occasion be LIKE
i don't, understand don't, like don't, agree and at least
be listened. To and even, that people don't get that
kind of. Space, SO i, mean we want people to think,
critically and we don't give them the space to think,
Critically like when you scold that person because they don't
understand Why johnny does not have seven apple right instead

(51:59):
of like unpacking LIKE i took one?

Speaker 5 (52:02):
Away what about that isn't?

Speaker 4 (52:03):
Clear you, know you stunt their own development and intellectual
growth to.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Be understood psychologically and.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Psychological you, know so many people are caught, up including,
myself and the things people have said maybe, five, ten,
fifteen twenty years, ago that they said it once and
now you're still caught.

Speaker 5 (52:23):
Up and does everybody think? That does everybody feel that?

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Way AND i feel like that kind of transitions to
something else we're both very passionate, about which is the
ways in which you actually care for and love. Yourself
Because i'll also admit one of the reasons my mom
was an awesome mom is because my mom actually took
care of. Herself my mom made sure to look the
way she wanted to, look and to take care of

(52:46):
all the little things in her own personal life that
mattered to, her whether it was her skin or reading
or whatever she liked to. Do when we don't take
that time to rejuvenate ourselves and to feel good about,
ourselves of course we're going to go pick on our,
kids going to go pick on our fellow organizer and
comrade because we're not even happy within our own, body you,
know and there's this framework of rest as. Resistance shout

(53:09):
out for SHAHERSY i love her so, much but the
CONCEPT i already believed in it and like the concept
of slow. Living but the ways in which she presents
it as particularly for us as people who've been, colonized
people who've been, enslaved people who've been affected by systems
of capitalism and white, supremacy is that that opportunity to

(53:30):
just rest and just be was stripped away from so
many of our ancestors or. Vilified that every time that
you're not in a, rushing in a grind to create,
something you're really refilling, yourself even if you're just sitting
in a room with your eyes, closed still, awake not
even taking a full, Nap that that's a form of
rest and, rejuvenation and that it's through that settled digestive,

(53:55):
system settled autonomic. Response you're not in fight or, flight
you're not the world's not, ending the roof isn't on.
Fire that's when you can really show up as your best.
Self and it's a matter of loving yourself enough to
know that you deserve that and prioritize, that and also
giving yourself grace without excusing your, own you, know shortcomings

(54:17):
to the point where you're, like, Well i'm not going
to fix BECAUSE i just accept that's. Me like see
yourself where you're, at acknowledge where you could, be and
then take steps whatever that looks.

Speaker 5 (54:27):
Like you.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
KNOW i think two where our society is that we
don't allow for mistakes because you, know and particularly people
THAT i have falling under the ways of, colonization you,
know particularly in The African american COMMUNITY i can speak,
to is that one mistake could be the end or
it could be disastrous. Results so we have this hyper

(54:51):
perfection built in and it stifles expression in many, respects
creativity and the law spectrum of. Humanity AND i think
it's very difficult for sometimes our, generation our communities to
let go of just some traumatic. Experiences we, do you,
know in our community have melancholic kind of humor reminiscing

(55:14):
some of the responses that we have today because we
do have humor in order for us to bear some
of the burdens of. It but we also need a
cathartic release to say we don't have to relive, that
we don't have to pass that on to. Children because
there is a group of generation people saying this is
what kids need their you, know denigrating gentle parenting or

(55:36):
the soft life is if that's the most enemy of
what of? Entitlement there have been entitled people all the
rudent society that got beaten the hell out of and
that doesn't stop you from being entitled or believing that
you above the. Phrase so it's that belief that beating
or a violence of some form is the most effective

(55:59):
way to children or deal with the new people of
society or our future. Generations you, know we need to
return back to those old slave past.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Tactics so, YEAH.

Speaker 6 (56:10):
I definitely agree agree with you. TOO i think doing
this type of work has kind of forced me to
like look within where my trauma has come, from HOW
i was, raised HOW i was, treated IF i made,
mistakes HOW i was, treated IF i was the type
of person that they may not have wanted me to,

(56:30):
be even my attachment, styles learning about even what an
attachment style. IS i think that what a lot of
us really believe in is, care and we really want
care for the. WORLD i think that the biggest reason
why you see all these leftists or people fighting for

(56:52):
stuff is because they really do care and they want
care to be part of their, world and, honestly we
are creating that already within our own. COMMUNITIES i think
that that sometimes when you're a person who really loves helping,
people and at least for, myself you can get so
lost in just helping everybody, else and you forget about,

(57:15):
Yourself you forget about your, traumas your, triggers your, pain
and you're just, LIKE i need to help the next.
Person AND i understand that feeling BECAUSE i help people
who you, know are on the street or you, KNOW
i feel guilty LIKE i get to go home and
this person is not in a, house they're, outside and
SO i feel like this constant need of LIKE i

(57:37):
need to do one hundred. Percent AND i think even growing,
up like as a young, PERSON i was a workaholic
what you would consider a workaholic in the healthcare, industry
of just like constantly, like, okay we're short, STAFF i
will volunteer my, time you, know to do another shift
to help these. Folks and it's like we forget about

(57:59):
it ourselves. Sometimes AND i think that as we fight
for the care that we want to see in the,
world we need to fight just as hard in our own.

Speaker 5 (58:07):
Lives to provide that care for.

Speaker 6 (58:09):
Ourselves And i'm very lucky Where i'm at, now the
type of, workplace the environment is very much about like
taking care of. Yourself and SO i do hope that
folks who are out, there you, know, fighting you know
that you do have time to enjoy a bubble, bath
or enjoy sleeping or taking a.

Speaker 5 (58:30):
Nap please.

Speaker 6 (58:31):
SLEEP i think we don't even sometimes sleep, enough you,
Know and SO i do feel like we need to,
rest and we need to love ourselves and we need
to heal those, wounds because when we heal those, things
we're able to create better relationships with other, people and
when conflict, arises you will be able to handle conflict

(58:54):
a lot. Better when you know yourself a lot better
and you go to therapy and you get that help
that you need and you talk about those moments that
really have impacted your life and why it's so hard
to even move, forward why it's so hard to be,
confident to feel, loved to not feel. Shame AND i
think that's the main thing THAT i would want to

(59:16):
share with, folks is, like you, KNOW i hope you know.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
That you are.

Speaker 6 (59:21):
Loved you're deserving of being. Loved you're deserving of having,
Care you're deserving of having, Rest you're deserving of enjoying,
life you, know and just having fun, too because life
can be fun and it can be.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Beautiful well. STATED i hate to cut the.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Conversation she, like we were having such a great, time
BUT i want to change tax quickly and say that
what's been? Currently you guys are doing something In New, Orleans.
Louisiana can you talk a little bit about? That and
where can we find you guys's?

Speaker 4 (59:54):
Works, so, yes we are going to be speaking at
another cont. Friends it's still shocking to me BECAUSE i
just googled it one day and now we're going and
we'll be speaking about ways to really improve and at
the bare minimum make the system OF. Hmis SO hmis

(01:00:15):
is The Homeless Management Information. System it's the number that
anybody typically going through a, shelter or you're supposed to
be if you go through a, shelter but we won't
get into that today or. Outreach you're tagged with that, number,
right and that's how they understand how to serve, you
what your needs, are what you've been, through. Etc and,

(01:00:40):
unfortunately despite how many information systems exist in the, world
like a patient portal or the resources you go can
see about your own life and your own. Records when
you go to THE, dmv there is no public facing
version OF, hmis so there's practically no way for you
to obtain your own records aside from asking an organization

(01:01:01):
that you're working. With and, unfortunately due to, bias most
organizations blow you off and act like you're a. Nuisance
and so we're really there to say both for the
sake of case managers and people who provide, services and
absolutely for the folks receiving those. Services knowing your own,
information being able to request, changes being able to update your,

(01:01:24):
information these things can be make or break and are
another form of harm, reduction you, know reducing the harm
of being homeless altogether by making it a little easier
for you to have control over your own. Stuff so
we'll be doing that the end Of april in. General
and it's funny when we initially agreed to sit down with,
you we were, like what do we talk.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
About the world's?

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
Ending and we were a little like shook at, first
like how do you tell people to keep, organizing to
keep advocating for rights to keep advocating for higher quality
of life when we're being shouted, down shut, down or
imprisoned and told that that's just not going to be
the way. Forward but ultimately it's just it's a it's

(01:02:08):
a step by step, thing it's a day by day.
Thing but we can't give, up because then what WILL
i do with my life IF i just stop supporting.
People i've already seen my, support you, know empower. People
we've seen our workshops and whether that's meeting up with
mutual aid groups or speaking at, conferences we've seen the

(01:02:28):
ideas that that can spark and that kind of renewed
faith and we as a people can create any system
and anything we. Want and it's not to say that
even speaking at this conference is to reform H mis
because you, know at the end of the, day there
are systems that point blank period have to.

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
Fall reform isn't going to cut.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
It that being, said just because reform isn't going to cut,
it does that MEAN i don't go into this room
as a person with lived experience and say people have
the right to their own records, now and if they implement, it,
great and if someday that system falls and a new
one replaces, it as long as it includes the things
that uphold.

Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
DIGNITY i love. It you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
Know it's revolution, pending really it. Is and where can
folks find? Us we're on the. Low we like to
stay low, key but we've got like an, Email, yeah an.
Email do you want to provide your? Email we provide
both of our.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Email we, could, well we had our.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Project it was originally Called rights And Resources, project and
our emails rights spelled rig H t S A n
d R e s O u r c s Y
S i spelled, it BUT i got it project p
r o J e C t At proton not. Me

(01:03:50):
but there's tons of ways to reach. Us we'll slide
the details to you for.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Sure, well this was a very enlightening and very exciting
informative conversation AND i thank you all for coming in
to take the time to educate us liberators and. Motivators
thank you so much To amanda And max for that,
time and you can follow their work at the links

(01:04:16):
in the. Description please don't forget to vote for us
in the Web People's Choice, awards also at the link
in the. Description and thank you. All for joining in
and let us remember that a frog with a glass
ass leaps. ONCE i guess you can put that one. Together,
finally it is my hope we meet again in the

(01:04:38):
light of. Understanding if you have a story to share
on the, air please reach out to me At Weedian
howse At gmail or Weedian howes On. Instagram with, that
thanks again for. Listening Weedian hows is a production Of.
iHeartRadio it is, written, posted and created By me Theo

(01:04:59):
hen our Producers jbie Loftus Haaii, Fager Katie, fischal And Lyra.
Smith our editor Is Adam wand and our local art
is also By Katie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Ficial thanks for. Listening