Oppenheimerverse with Nick Rutherford

Today on the show, Josh is joined by the Emmy Award winning actor, writer, comedian, producer, and patriot Nick Rutherford. As executive producer of Rick and Morty, Rutherford has gazed into the dark heart of extreme comedy and lived to tell the tale. As a writer on Saturday Night Live, he's braved the wrath of the great and terrible Lorne Michaels. And as a man, he has bared his soul on this week's What Future. Tune in and vibe with Josh and Nick, who definitely have nothing to talk about. Discussed: Post-credit scenes, neighborhood politics, drugs, and adding Oppenheimer to the MCU.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, and welcome to What Future.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm your host, Josh Wazapolski, and today I got to
say we've got a banger of an episode. I'm very
excited about it. In fact, it's such a great conversation
that I don't even want to waste time telling you
about how great it's going to be. I don't want
to sit here and ramble, because you should just listen
to it.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
You should just hear it.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
I had the rare and wonderful opportunity to talk to
the actor, comedian, writer Nicholas Rutherford Nick Rutherford if you
want to, If you want to go by his more
casual name, he's an executive producer. I'm Rick and Morty
and a super smart, funny guy. And we had a
killer conversation and I want to get right into it,

(01:03):
So let's go Rutherford. Am I saying that right? Your
name is pronounced Rutherford Nick Rutherford Topolski is correct. According

(01:28):
to your Wikipedia page, which you have, you're an actor,
a comedian, a writer, and a co founder of the
Sketch comedy group Good neighbor.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
But are you a Patriot? That's what I'd like to know.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh, I mean, I think I'm the best type of
patriot at patriot who holds his country's feet to the fire. Yeah,
you know, patriot who asked the questions that a lot
of patriots don't like. For instance, Yeah, for instance, what
is arbor Day?

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah? What is arbor Day?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think that's a solebration of trees, right, Okay, yeah,
I assume so. But I mean arbor is like, are like,
that's a tree thing.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah. I think if you're like an arbor rist, you're
a tree scientist.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, let's look at them. What is arbor Day?

Speaker 3 (02:12):
So it's tree Day? So isn't it's an Earth Day,
doesn't covered trees.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
It's a secular day of observance which individuals and groups
are encouraged to plant trees.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Is it a national holiday? Might be? Yeah, it's national
arbor Day.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's not a government holiday. We don't get work offs
right now.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
They don't give you off for it.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
They don't give you don't give you a day off
to plant a tree. That would be That's the kind
of thing that Republicans talk about as like the end
state of liberals. Of what liberals want is they're going
to stop you from working so you can go out
and plant a tree. That's like a that's like a
conservative nightmare scenario.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
You know, you don't get worse worst case the.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Worst scenarios you have to like forced to take off
work and go plant a tree by you know, liberals anyhow. Yeah, Also,
we don't have to talk about politics. I don't even
know how. I guess because I asked you you're if
you're a patriot. That was a huge miss Yeah, huge
missed up on my part. But now you led it
there pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
That's my fucking that's my fault. Are you a very
political person? Do you feel politically minded?

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Totally motivated?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I think as I get a bit older, I get
a little more politically involved. I like to be politically
involved on a local level. I think that's kind of
what's missing, like in your house. Yeah, those neighborhood councils, right.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Are you on aunt? Are you on a city council
or somebody honest neighborhood?

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Oh no, but I thought I wanted to be. I
wanted to get on my neighborhood council. And then I
pitched that idea to somebody a friend, and they were like, absolutely,
do not do that. It'll just it's it's still suck
your life away, which is a bummer. You know that
those jobs should be those positions should be fun desirable.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, no, no, no, for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Uh like local getting involved in local government or local
like neighborhood sort of stuff is for a certain type
of individual, which is why you you end up with
a lot of really old people doing it, because it
is a huge time sock, I believe, And it's kind
of like the work is not very rewarding in a
lot of ways, and I don't think they even pay
or they pay very little. Yeah, my wife opened a

(04:06):
bookstore in our town, and I mean I helped a
little bit, but.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's really hers.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
And what did you do?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I built the shelves and I picked the wallpaper. And
she's become like a member of whatever the business you know, the.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Business alliance. Yeah, yeah, you know she has to go
to meeting this Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, it doesn't sound fun, I guess, but she enjoys
it because she likes she likes tedious shit, which is
why we're married. And she's and she's elderly, she's she's
also eighty five years old, and so that's really helpful,
right for her she got a blody of time and
nowhere to go.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay, So so you have an Emmy, is that right? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
You worked on Rick and Morty.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, well I'm currently working on Rick and Morty. I
mean not currently because we're on strike.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Oh right, well ha I.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
We're going to get to the strike because there's a
lot of talk about there. But first I want to
I want to explore your your Emmy wins. How many
Emmys do you have?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well?

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Now one and I have what I won one and
I've lost one Emmy and I'm up for not me.
The show's up for an Emmy, but I'm included in
the ship one. I mean I got one. Yeah, as
a as a as a producer. So I'm an EP.
I'm executive producer on Rick and Morty. Now at the time,
I was some lower producer, but I still made the cut, you.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Know, executive producer. That's pretty big deal.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's a big that is uh, it's one of the
big ones. And let me tell you it's it's just
it's all it's all in a name.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
You don't actually do anything.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
No, no, I don't do anything. Yeah, no, no, you know,
I watched cuts and we look at edits and I've
written songs. You're a song producer. Now I'm a song producer.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Are you really?

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Mm hmm. That's great because I like to put songs
in my episodes and then I get it and like
write him with the Ryan Elder, who's our composer. He
does really all the hard musical lifting, and I just
write silly lyrics and the melodies.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Right, that's the best. That's that's like, uh, that's led
Zeppelin right there. It's like John Paul Jones was, I
mean all the hard work, like you know, Jimmy Page
is right in the riffs. And then Robert Plant was
just like, I'm gonna write about Lord of the Rings.
Is that cool? Like I'm gonna do a song about
Lord of the Rings. I don't know if you know
much about led zeppam they have several songs about Lord
of the Rings.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Uh oh yeah, because like Lord of the Rings was
kind of big for like metal, like rock and roll,
right extra they were mystical guys.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
I mean he you know Robert Plant, he talks about
Golam in one of the uh and Gollum or whatever
the guy's name is from Gollum. He references him by
name and at least one song if not uh, and
he talks about Mordor like specifically. It's actually really funny
when you think about it, like, uh, like you would
hear a song on the radio these days that just

(06:42):
like specifically talking about.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Lord of the Rings, like characters and Lord of the Rings.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
It's like a band today, did it did a song
about like the Rings of Power on amzok? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Right, there's no history of this yet. When you think
about led Zeppan though, they were like so sexy. People
were like these fuck, I'll fuck these guys no matter what,
Like how do I get to them? I want to
have sex with Robert Planting And meanwhile he's like on
stage literally fucking singing about the biggest nerd shit that
it's the hugest turn off for most people, like literally
name checking characters from the Lord of the Rings. But

(07:12):
it's like it's it's a weird it's a weird it
was weird time in the world.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
That was a time too in nerdship was nerd shit
like nerd yeah, feet up, no.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
No, no, this was like in the seventies, like like
Lord of the Rings was not cool in the seventies,
like like, I mean, I'm not even sure it's cool now, Like,
to be honest.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
With you, it's just like it's become popular enough. But yeah,
very strange.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Anyhow, Uh so we were talking at the fuck were we?
Oh your Emmys? Okay, so we're talking about you writing
songs in order to get Emmys.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Uh. You don't get Emmys for songwriting though, do you?

Speaker 2 (07:44):
No?

Speaker 3 (07:45):
But I want to That did great, they get a Grammy.
But so when Ricky Marty won one year, it was
a zoom Emmys. It was like the pandemic Emmys.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Oh that sucks. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's I mean, congratulations but no. But
yeah it's also great, right.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
I mean you still got the Emmys.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Okay, yemmy.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
It to my house months later and I had to
watch it on a laptop screen. But the day of
the Emmys, I was actually recording a podcast with my
friend Nick Turner. Oh my god, who was like, well,
all we're going to do is we're going to go
metal detecting at the beach and I was like that
should be fine. We should be done by the time
the Emmys start. And we were metal detecting and I

(08:21):
texted one of the other producers like, hey, so, what
time do the Emmys start, and like when are we up?
And he wrote back, I was probably wearing a tank
top in short and I'm like a, you know, like
a panama hat and I was metal detecting and Santa Monica.
And he replies immediately they started right now, and we're
the first one up, like we're the very first award.

(08:43):
And so I told Nick and Nick I was like, guys,
I am sorry, we have to I have to go
to their credit. They were like, oh Jesus, of course absolutely.
And then we all piled in the car and zipped
across town and somehow found like a live stream of
the Emmys on one of our phones. And when we
pulled it up, the first thing we saw was Dan Harmon,
one of the creators of Rick and Morty, was giving

(09:05):
his pre recorded acceptance speech. Oh, and we were like,
I think we won. Maybe we won, or I was like,
we don't know. Maybe they also show the losers pre
recorded acceptance speeches because it's the pandemic really cruel.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Actually, like we got to fill time, like just everybody record.
We don't know who's gonna win. Everybody record up. We
need speech though, and then we'll just show them all.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Well that's I mean, they somebody has access to all
of these videos. Everybody had to record a speech Academy.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
They couldn't cut. They couldn't cut live to to Dan
like speaking.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
That would have been way more fun. It was pre recorded. Yeah,
it was probably a live host, but you know, I
mean it was, but anyway, it was not. It wasn't
as glamorous of an event as you would hope.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
So you haven't won an Emmy in person, that's what
you're saying.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
I lost an Emmy in person, though, is it not
the same? Who did you lose to? The animation category
is odd? So we lost to an hour long Netflix
anime drama. Oh that is like all cgi and it's
very pretty, but it's a drama. It's like, how do
you put like a very nihilistic comedy, half hour comedy

(10:13):
against an hour long drama.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
You know?

Speaker 3 (10:16):
And so this year, so we lost, and we was
very upsetting. And this year we're also up against Netflix again.
The Netflix show quote unquote is a full feature length
animated movie, which is not even a show. I don't know,
I don't know, I don't know, I should know.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
A hit or miss over there. You never know, it
could be one of the bad ones. Maybe you've got
a good chance. Maybe they maybe they're nominating shit. You know,
that does seem unfair, Like why put a show against
the movie?

Speaker 1 (10:40):
First off?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
That feels like I think the animation category is mature
enough that you could have like subcategories, right, you could
have like there should be animated comedy, you could have
animated drama. You could do like, Yeah, I feel like
movies and shows should not go against each other. I
think that's like a totally weird I think it's the
very least you'd separate those out.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
You know, I don't want to be a you know, right,
it's fun, but you want that I want that Emmy,
of course. Yeah, what's better than one Emmy? Two Emmys?
But we're also in the we're in the Creative Arts Emmys, oh,
which is like the week before the televised big fun Emmys.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's fucking that's so wild, Like they're not even like
that you guys get to be part of like the
regular Emmys.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
You guys are like a special effect. Is that the
idea you're like sound design, that's.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Exactly right, it's exactly right. We're like sound engineers and stuff,
and all these are critical jobs. I'm not poopoing these.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Jobs, no, but it's just it's just like you're creating
a TV show as much as anybody else's.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
It just happens to be animated.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, right, And it's like you know, it's always against
Simpsons and Bob's Burger. It's all these legacy shows, right,
and it's it's in between like best Animal Handler.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right, in a way, there's an argument, there is an
argument that should those shows just be in the regular category,
not even animated, like just the quality of the show.
Who cares about the format? I mean, who cares about
whether it's a drawn these people are drawn? Or I mean,
I don't know, that's a tough That would be tough though, right,
because then you'd be up against like a better call Saul. Yeah,

(12:06):
I'm sure, well no, because that's isn't that an hour
long drama? You wouldn't those aren't all like you don't
put a sitcom against the drama. Don't they have categories
for those?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I know nothing about it.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Everything I'm talking about the animated categories is there. The
category is just anything that's drawma. Yeah, well see, I know.
I guess I have been out of touch with the
m is.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
I actually think.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Award shows are should be banned. I think they're bad
for society. But I'm glad that you won an Emmy.
I'm very I'm happy for you, But I also think
that the fundamental idea of the Emmy is bad.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
For weren't they initially went the oscars at least initially
like a union busting thing.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
That sounds right to me.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Maybe we should know this right now because we're at
a critical juncture. I'm sure for you have probably several
unions that you're striking with right now.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Right Yeah, I'm striking with sag After and WJA, I'm
double striking.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Do you are you all on one picket line or
do you google across town like to another picket line
for the like the actors.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now, they it's all it's all mixed. It's like a
big mixer. And it was nice when the acting when
zag got involved, because they brought a lot of energy
to the picket line. But they also love the sag
After a crew really loves doing picket line karaoke. Who
and I feel like we should be a little more
stoic out there.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
No, no, nothing. Nobody should be seemingly having fun. It
should be.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
People should be they've made it a party.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I mean in a way, I mean, I know
it is very wrong for whoever cut back those trees
to not provide shade for people. But in a way,
I think sweating in the heat with your picket sign
shows the struggle. You know, it makes the struggle look more.
But we're willing to will fight. Yeah you don't. I
actually think you're gonna you lose people. I'm not telling
anybody how to strike, by the way, as a person

(13:47):
who's never been on strike, I shouldn't really comment on it,
but I just feel like you want people to see
uh suffering. You want people to feel like that there's
pain being inflicted on you. In a way, yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Want to look like a dust bowl like food line.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I would, if anything, I would have to get
those actors dressing up.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
They probably have costumes laying around. I would assume.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Absolutely, like they should all be in like nineteen twenties,
like fucking Woody Guthrie shit like out there.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right, like patch elbows on their peers and.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
The fucking thing like their their picket sign should be
on that whatever those things are that are batable.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
What are they called.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
It's a bindle, the like a little handkerchief filled with
yeah you're good, yeah for a train jumping.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
I think I think they're missing opunity all about this
you toodle podcast, right, I figure. I think I think
they're missing an opportunity to actually uh engage in their
craft in a way like, don't go out there and
sing fucking songs. Go out and pretend to be a
nineteen twenties striker, you know, cover yourself an oil or

(14:52):
something and.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Be like, rather, can't you spare a dime?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yes, you know, I mean it is.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
It is tough because like obviously there's these huge strikes
going on, and clearly, I mean from my money, and
I'm not an expert on anything, but seems like the
studios are in the wrong here on a bunch of
different levels. And it feels like some of the some
of the gives that are required would in no way
damage their actual businesses in any meaningful manner.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
It seems that way, you know, at least infographics.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
I see, I see all that shit, and it's like, oh,
this would be like less than one percent of their
total profit to like fix these problems or some shit
like that.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's like nothing.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
I mean, you know writers and actors. That sounds like
a luxury gig. I think there's a there is a
thing that happens with the creative arts. Obviously it provides
a huge amount of things to the rest of society.
But also, like these are real jobs. Not everybody is
like Brad Pitt, Like there are people who just have
like day jobs. They have the bike, like fucking less
than minimum wage or whatever. Essentially, like if you add

(15:47):
it all up, like just do not everybody is a
super huge success, right, Like they're just working.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah. I think that the consensus is like, oh, you've
been on TV once, you're a millionaire. Yeah, and that
is far far from the truth.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
I mean when I was a kid, I used to
think if you were on TV, it was like you
were famous, like you had made it.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Like if you went on too.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
I think it might have been more like that. Well
a there was like four shows on TV, four channels,
four shows, yeah, and they just played constantly. But now
with the streamers everything, I mean, these these points have
been poured over many times and I'm not going to
do any favors to them. So I think now it's
the market is so flooded and there's so many things,

(16:26):
and there's new media contracts and there's streaming contracts right right,
and it's so the pay has gone down and residuals
are kind of non existent because everything's streaming. And for
whatever reason, when they sorted out the streaming stuff, all
the unions were kind of like, yeah, whatever, we'll we'll
just figure it out down the line, right, And now
we're like, wait a second.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's probably like not that big of a deal. I mean,
it's always like this. I mean, this has happened, you
know in media, like in news media. It was like
when Google started. But he was like, hm, that could
be a problem. They were like this is a cute
little thing that the nerds are messing around with. Like hey, YouTube,
that's not a problem. That's not a threat to us, right.
YouTube was like huh, that could be a thing. But
that's the difference between you know, the people who make

(17:05):
those things and the legacy whatever people who are like yeah,
we're we'll our business will never be threatened, nothing will
ever change. It is really like a weird thing that
people are like feel impervious to change and when it's
like obviously happening constantly around us. Yeah, whoever takes the

(17:32):
side of the company, Like, I can't imagine a scenario
where I'm like, actually, how dare these teachers ask for
more money? Right?

Speaker 3 (17:38):
The fat cats at the top they what's going on?

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, Like, I mean, you know, it's like hard to
imagine going like, well, I think Disney is getting a
raw deal here, you know, Like that's like I don't
think that's an Netflix.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
We gotta hey, come on, we gotta help Netflix out.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Man. They're really struggle subscriber bases down.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, I mean, but the thing is, you know, it's
tough because it's creative, and like anything creative, people are
basically like there's no value attached to it in a
weird way, like, yes, you love to go see movies,
but like when you really think about like the people
who make the movie.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
You kind of don't give a shit. Like most people
kind of don't give a shit.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
They don't think it's like toiling in a factory, and
it is not to some extent, although plenty of those
jobs are really hard labor, and like I'm not saying
an actor's job is like, you know, building a fucking
ac in it in a factory, but like it's it's
I think there's this interesting disconnect I feel sort of
happening now where like the strike's going on so long
that people I can almost see. I don't think people's

(18:30):
like attitudes are turning, but I think it's hard. I
guess this is as we were talking about the dust
Bowl costumes or whatever, like how do you make people
continue to care about it? You know, when there's all
this stuff going on that that feels like more important?
And I don't know, maybe you have an answer to
that to that question, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I mean it's tough. I'm really curious what you think
the temperature is of the public perception outside of the
entertainment industry, because it's tough being within it. Yeah, you know,
my echo chamber is just like why won't they just
give up one point six percent of their like end
of the line propuit fits and to satisfy everybody? Yeah,
but I wonder, like the are the average strange or things? Fan?

(19:05):
Are they just like, what's when's the next season coming?
Get back to work?

Speaker 1 (19:08):
One hundred percent. They're not. They're not.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I don't think they consider it. I don't think they're like, hey,
what happened? But then when does the I guess that's
the question. With all this abundance, I mean, this is
sort of the part of the problem, right, Like this
huge abundance of content means that you basically like never
feel like you're running out and like is there this
thing is a thing happening now, where like before it
would have stopped TV, would have stopped film, Like, but

(19:30):
there's so much shit that's just like accumulated on these
streaming services and in the on these you know, the
shelves of a Disney or whatever, that people don't feel
it the way they used to write, like, you know,
like it's like all this shit's going on. And then
there's like Barbie and Oppenheimer, the two biggest like films
of the year that seem to be totally outside of

(19:51):
this reality of striking or whatever. You know, Like, yeah,
presumably all of the people who worked on those movies,
who wrote for and acted in them are all striking, right,
they are members of these unions.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Oh absolutely, And also like probably not supposed to promote it.
I think that I think Barbie came out pre SAG strike.
I don't remember for sure, but like you know, Margot,
Robbie and Gosling are going to go out and promote
the movie of course, right, but it is a weird thing.
It's a hard thing to celebrate this great film when
we're also fighting for viable existences and trying to like
pave a path forward for other people to enter this industry.

(20:26):
And the saddest thing is, like, you know, within the
Rick and Morty world, within my bubble, there's people are
getting let go every day, people who aren't in WJ
and aren't in SAG. But it's like, well, we're not
in production, we're not writing new episodes, and we don't
need this production coordinator, so good luck. We have hope
to see you when it comes back.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
And all the industries that are attached to like making
this stuff presumably are getting eviscerated right now.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Right absolutely, But I mean to the other side, it's
an absolute, necessary, critical strike, and I do like that
it feels like we're part of a larger labor movement
now and standing up against these like big giant conglomerates
and being and doing so successfully, you know, they had
the ups strike, which is like settled in a day. Yeah,
I think there's like a like airline attendance are now

(21:13):
or like now kind of mustering up. I think that
all of the animators who do s like special effects
for Marvel movies have basically going to strike and say no,
we want to unionize too. And I think that's great,
the fact that it's like becoming you know, whatever, we'll
we'll get a better deal at the end of the day.
But I hope it also opens the conversation up for
other people to be like, yeah, well we should have

(21:33):
a better deal too, What the hell's going on? And
I think that's happening.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's funny, like I come from a family of like socialists,
like Jews.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Like my great aunt was like a labor organizer.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
You know. They were like, oh that's cool, you know
she had like lunch with Trotsky, but she was like,
you know, like they moved from like Ukraine to Pittsburgh
and was like, you know, helped to start like a
you know space, like a socialist labor group whatever. So
like I get like, I get this, and it's easy
interesting because like it is there's a there is a
bit of a frame in America for sure, especially in
America that like unions are evil and unions are bad.

(22:08):
It's like people have bought the line of the corporations
and like, I don't like grudge a corporation for making
a lot of money, but I think when you see
the fucking disparity, you know, the pandemic was really interesting
where it's like Amazon's like there, it's just being so
much money is being accumulated there while everybody else is
like eating shit, and it's like, yeah, this feels wrong,

(22:30):
Like it feels like there's some disparity and how do
you how do you balance it?

Speaker 1 (22:34):
How do you ever balance it? And the only way
that anybody has to balance.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
It is like is collective action now because it's because
they are these corporations are so massive and have so
much power and so much money that it's impossible to
to really, like on a one to one level, affect
anything that they do. And like I think it's amazing,
Like I love the fact that people are I don't
love the people are striking, Like people shouldn't have to strike.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
But right, yeah, the ups that's.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Interesting, you basically was interesting, like and picketting is exciting.
You know, it's fun. I don't know, it feels really
fun to be a part and that's such a pervilect
thing to say, Oh, it's fun to be a part
of a labor right now or a labor movement. But
I mean, like you see people activating on the street,
you run into all these old friends, everybody's walking in
the miserable, miserable heat. It's a cool thing to be

(23:17):
a part of, and it's important. And you know, nobody's
going to get Stranger Things season six or whatever it is,
well until they start paying people.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, you know, but it's also part of this. I
think there's this just overwhelming amount of content. Like I
just think there was a time when, I mean, when
the Stranger Things began, there actually were not that many
shows being produced by Netflix, you know, like it I mean,
I don't know how many years ago it was, but
it was, you know a handful of things were coming
out of Netflix, not like a new show every day.

(23:47):
And now we just have this not just Netflix, it's
like all of these services just feel like they have
so over indexed on content and so much of it
is like really mediocre. You know.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
The other thing that's happening, which is really wild and
disheartening is and it's basically legal insurance fraud. So this
guy's Zaslov, who is like now the CEO of Warner
Brothers Warner Universal, which is basically owns everything everybody loves.
So what they're doing just to like clear their bottom
line and look better is they are taking existing shows

(24:21):
that are available to stream and they're erasing them from existence.
So they basically go to their insurance company because they
have insurance on all these shows, and they say this
was a wash. They totaled the car. They say, hey,
take the whole car. We're not going to fix it.
We'll take our insurance back. So, like, you know, I
probably should say any of these numbers, but like we

(24:42):
made a show for Adult Swim, I want to say
our full budget for the three seasons of it was
like twenty million something like that, and they're going to
wipe it from existence at the end of our Hulu contract.
It'll just you won't be able to watch it anywhere.
Check it on Pirate Bay. I know it's there, right.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
What's it called.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
It's called Dream Corp LLC, which was this hybrid animation
live action really beautiful show. But that's one example, and
it famously happened with Batgirl.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, Bi Thata Girl's crazy.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
They made an entire movie that would be like in
a large part of a franchise or whatever.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
And then just wiped it and then they get back
a fraction of their budget and then they go, look
see here we go. And that's disheartening. Like you know
how many actors were in that and writers and creak
guys were like, I'm going to be a part of
this huge thing. There's definitely gonna be a Bad Girl too.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, it's crazy and Michael, I think Michael Keaton's in it,
Like yeah, I mean it probably wouldn't be great, but
like you know, like none of the DC movies seemed
that good to me, but it's probably like would be
fun to watch. And maybe that's I mean, maybe that's
the problem though, I mean, look at what's going on
out there, Like maybe we've got too much Bad Girl.
I mean I'm not agreeing with I'm not agreeing with

(25:49):
the Fat Cats, Okay, right, I'm just saying like, yeah,
it feels I mean, I almost think like the Barbie
Oppenheimer thing is an interesting It seems a little bit
more like, well, I don't know, it's tough, like Barbie's
like based on a fucking doll, you know, like it's
based on literally like a toy.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
And so I was like, well, maybe this franchise thing
is kind of over.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
But but they do feel like more like works of
art then a lot of stuff that's put out into
the world these days, like a lot of these Like
it feels like Disney's not just on this, like they
just have to release more Marvel content.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
It just feels like Marvel content or redo any animated film,
live action.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, I mean that stuff is that stuff is so
bizarre to me. Yeah, yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So I want to talk about Rick and Morty for
a second. I have a couple of thoughts. How long
and how long have you been working on the show?

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Not from the beginning, not from the beginning. I came
in like halfway through season four basically, okay, okay, and
we're season six aired most recently, and sevens is going
to come out eventually.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
So so Rick and Morty is an interesting show in
that when I started watching it, I was like, you know, crying, laughing,
like I thought it was like one of the funniest
things I'd ever seen, and I'm like, this is so
fucking weird, Like it's a weird, weird show, and it
only got I feel like, especially in the first you know,
several of it. I don't think I've watched the last season,
but I've watched everything up until that certainly got progressively

(27:05):
more weird and obscure and sort of whatever. But here's
the thing that I find I'm gonna try to say
this in a way that doesn't sound insulting, because I
don't want I don't want to insult. I don't want
to sell you or anybody who's worked on it. Okay, Like,
I think it's really smart and really funny. I think,
you know, I think it crosses some lines that for
a lot of people are probably like they don't feel
comfortable where how those lines are crossed.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
But that's like neither here nor there.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
The thing that I find somewhat troubling about it is
like I feel like it became very popular with people.
I feel like they like it for reasons that are
different than the ones I like it for.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yes, do you understand what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
And like, yeah, I do. There's a vocal minority fan
base that's kind of in selly guys. Yeah, well because
the you know, the protagonist Rick is this like nothing matters,
get fucked up, have sex with everything, love isn't real.
Like there's like an angry teenager in that character that
people relate to.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right, But it's sort of like a Rorshack, you know,
from Watchmen, Like actually there's a meme that's like Roshack
is my favorite superhero but like, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Know Roshack in the Watchman.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't know how familiar are with Watchmen, but you know, right,
so you know, he's a really fucked up character, like
really fucked up, and like all of the all the
all the superheroes, it's like kind of like identifying with
like the you know, like oh, like the comedian, he's awesome,
Like identifying with a character that's obviously super fucked up
and flawed, right, And it's I think like there's a
difference between like laughing alongsider or experiencing that person's story

(28:35):
versus like.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Being like I identify.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Is that what it is is like people these like
guys identifying with like like Rick, is that I think so?

Speaker 3 (28:46):
I mean I think so. I think it's like enabling
you in a way, it's like, oh cool, I also
hate everything and I'm pissed with my life, so right,
like I'm going to get behind this guy. And you know,
like there was a lot of pushback, like the first,
you know, any show, it had a small writer's room
at the beginning, and then like as it grew, they
got a larger writer's room and they hired you know,

(29:08):
a more diverse writer's room. And then the super like
reddit fans were like, oh, they ruined it because a
girl wrote this episode. And of course, I mean they're right,
girl wrote Pickle Rick, stupid asshole, Like no, no, no,
the girl.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
If a girl writes an episode, it's automatically bad content.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, I mean no, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
It's like it's like it's sort of in a way
like it kind of I don't say ruined the show
for me, but there is an element where like I'm
almost like, I don't it's like almost embarrassing to say
you like it.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I'm sorry again, I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
It's a fucking great show and it's really smart and funny.
I just want to be clear, like I think it's
like really one.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Of the most unique shows.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's ever been made, and yet the fandom of it
has like can.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Be a turnoff.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, It's created this weird sort of tension even within me.
I'm not saying like I can't be true to what
I love or whatever, but there's like a yeah, I
mean is there I mean, does that ever? How much
does that come up like when you're working on it, Like,
I'm curious because it feels to me like it would
create a lot of self consciousness or maybe more self
consciousness about like the kinds of jokes you put in

(30:11):
or the way you write certain characters. I'm just curious, like,
is that ever a topic?

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah? I think you know, everybody who writes on the
show that I've worked with for now for plus seasons
is like the funniest, smartest people. Everybody is. Everybody is
on the right side of history, and it's it's certainly
a consideration, you know. It's like, we want to be
true to the show, we want to be true to
the roots. It was a like, stick this big seed

(30:36):
up your ass, Morty, and I'm going to mistreat I'm
going to treat my grandson really badly because I want
to get laid by an alien. Like it's all problematic behavior.
So you want to like recognize, like, hey, this is
not this is a flawed character, and this person needs
to grow. And we can't just start a new season
where he is now a feminist and now you know
it is is you can't like completely transform a character,

(30:58):
but you can also what we get to do is
that these characters grow and we get to explore the
other characters that and and these are the storylines that
are more interesting to me, more interesting to the people
in the room. And and I don't know, the fan
base is catching on and and and the last few
seasons have been great, and yeah, it's a consideration to
some extent, but like it's also it's it's just the
people who are the loudest online and so.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Right, they always just trying to suck up everything for everything.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, so for they get For every one guy who's like, oh,
I want to be like a Rick because he treats
women badly, there's like thirty people who were like, oh,
I think it's a fun, smart show that talks about
you know, that's really a family sitcom at his heart, and.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
That I mean, yeah, yeah, yes, it has the dynamic
of a family sitcom with nothing that would ever work
for a family, say coom in a way.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
And then when I first watched it too the same
I was like, I don't know you could do this
on TV, like this is fun, Like okay.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Like I just want to be clear, like I love
the show, and I think one of the things that
I was always sort of I'm surprised by, and I
can't remember what season, maybe it was even in the
first season, like the arc of the season and the
way they have at least several seasons ended is like
quite emotional, like quite like dramatic in a way that
catches you off guard. And I think it's very rare

(32:25):
for a show that can be as it's you know,
it's sort of in the sphere of like a bo
Jack Horseman, Like there's a cerebralness to it that like
is sometimes expressed like purely in like the comedic, but
like often ends up being like pretty dramatic. And I think,
you know, it's it's it's unique in that sense, and
it's like a really interesting and hilarious.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Work of art.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I just I wanted to ask about it because it's
something that like I feel like I think fandom in
general is really is really tricky lately, and I think that, like, yeah,
it almost goes back going back to the let Zeppelin
Lord of.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
The Rigs thing, like it looks like good health.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, you know, like that was a time when, yeah,
it to be into things that were nerdy was considered
very uncool and it was very unpopular. And not to
say that every nerd was awesome or whatever, but I
think that it meant that those people, I think, found
each other in a way that created real communities that
were like communities about people sharing things they love together.

(33:25):
And it feels like modern fandom is like almost this
like weaponized mutation of that, where it's like we are
a community not banding together to share in our love
of something, but banding together to like destroy anybody who
doesn't share in our love of this thing, which is
like your point about like the episode being written by

(33:46):
a woman and they're all like fucking pissed about it
or whatever. The idea that being a fan of something
could become so vitriolic and hateful just seems like a
total perversion of the concept.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean the classic like Rick and
Morty superfan is like, oh, like, oh I love Rick
and Morty and someone's like, oh, I love Rick and
Morty too, and then that super fans like no, but
you don't get it, like I get it, like that
it's a competition and who loves it the most, who
really understands it, Like it's too deep for you? Yeah, yeah,
I don't know. I don't know where that comes from.

(34:17):
You know, it's a sign of our society. I guess
that people are desperately trying to find something that's theirs,
that they could be a part of. Like I don't
know why we're not getting that in our interact. You know,
we've we've messed up somewhere that that people's whole identity
becomes Captain America, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Look the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
And maybe Rick and Morty is a contributor to this,
although I would say on the higher end, like I
think we've all been like pretty heavily infantilized, like as adults,
Like I think we've all like the Star Wars should go,
Like Star Wars doesn't need to continue into like doesn't
need to be a part of your life forever, Like
it's possible that it could be a thing that you
love as like a teenager or as a kid or whatever,
and then like you move on to other two other

(34:54):
forms of like entertainment.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Or you know, you know rich polassical music.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, I know, I don't fucking know, but like these
are something beyond Star Wars. Like what if you never
get out of Star Wars, but if you're stuck in
the loop and you're like now you're seeing solo and
you're like, well it's not that good, but like at
least I'm getting more Star Wars. You know, you get
stuck at these like tracks of like, Okay, now this
is a thing, and can't they just be like and
you're not gonna they're not making Oppenheimer two, you know,

(35:22):
like right, it's just not saying you know, I haven't
seen it yet, so maybe it's maybe it's not that good.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
But now they do set up a sequel at the end. Yeah,
there's a post credits scene where uh Nick Nick Frost,
I don't know who's the guy where the agents and
the fielder. Nick Fury comes over and like puts his
hand on Oppenheimer's shoulder and he's like, we're very interested
in the work you've done.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Oh my god, fucking I'm sorry, but I wish that
Christopher Nolan had been could could not take himself too
seriously to have done that, because it would be the
greatest fucking thing that ever happened in film history. Like,
I think you did a three hour movie about the
creation of the atomic bomb that was super fucking serious,
and then you had a post credits scene that like

(36:06):
linked it to the Marvel universe.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
I mean, amazing, God, we need to make that scene.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like they should hire the actors just to film that scene.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
Oh absolutely. I mean I think every movie, and the
far they're detached from the Marvel Universe, the better, should
end with Nick Fury coming in and saying, we want
you to work for Shield.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I mean, it would have been just ultimate fucking synergy
with Barbie and Oppenheimer's if they had come up with
a post credit scene that somehow linked those universes together,
Like if.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Nick Fury had maybe shown up in both movies.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
I want to introduce you to Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Oh fuck god, oh man, this is now I'm understanding
why you're into these creative fields. You've got great ideas,
I mean, really good, Sead.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Just throw Fury and that's my pitch in the room.
All the time.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, so you were you wrote for SNL for a
little while, is that correct?

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah? I did one season on SNL.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
One season.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Let's talk about But tell me about the horrific situation
that led to your dismissal at SNL.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Can we talk about this?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
So I wish I wish it was exciting.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Would you do to Lauren?

Speaker 3 (37:15):
I didn't. I didn't do anything. Maybe I didn't drink
the koolid enough, but I wish it was more exciting.
It like, it was very it was unceremonial. I just
my contract wasn't renewed and I found out like over
the summer. It was like, yeah, you're not going back.
And then they sent me. They sent me a giant
box that had everything that was in my office.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Oh that's sufficient. It's nice that you guys they take
the summer off to fire people.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
They're like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Lauren was like, you know what I like to do
is if everybody leaves and then we can just pick
who we don't like and send them their shit.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
That's smart.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Hey, then we talked shit about them behind their back.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
I mean most businesses, you have to do it like
you have to bring the person into like an HR
conversation and then they like somebody escorts them out of
the building like this is it's way cleaning to do
it that way?

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, you just doesn't bother What do you think?

Speaker 1 (38:00):
What is it? Like?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
You didn't have like a you didn't come up with
like a character or something like somebody with a catchphrase
like what is what do you think?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Like you Knowteria is?

Speaker 3 (38:07):
It's been so far from it. I mean I didn't
get a lot of stuff on the show. I don't
know if the show really is my bag of humor,
so my strengths I don't think really played to the
show's strengths.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Like it's to mainstream too. Yeah, it's a little juvenile.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
I probably I don't think I could talk about this
well maybe.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
I mean these are my words.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
You're not here?

Speaker 1 (38:30):
What are they gona they're gonna rehire you?

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they probably won't invite me to the
fiftieth anniversary party, which you know you want.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
To go out. That's gonna be sick.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, I'm sure back to both Manning brothers at the
fortieth anniversary party.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Uh okay, it took me a second because I'm not
a sports guy. You're talking about there, but.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Peyton Manning is one, and then I want to.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Say, oh, you lie, I was gonna say like I
was gonna say, like Chuck Manning. I wrote on the
fortieth season. So it was a big year. Yeah, And
then they had a big giant anniversary show where like
Steve Martin, Bill Murray everybody came back and they like
that week. They were like, hey, you guys are new writers,
so you don't have to come in at all this week.
And it was like, oh that sucks, Like okay, well thanks.

(39:14):
They're like the best, best in the bridest, not you guys,
not you guys. We're going to do like more King
Touch stuff and like Samurai Samurai dry Cleaner.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
They bring back like old like old school like writers.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
It was like the best of you know. It was fun,
I mean. And but we did get to go to
this huge gala that had everybody who's ever been on
the show and he was live band Taylor Swift was there.
I just say Taylor so because she's kind of important
right now. She was very nice.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
I hear she's great. I've heard she's nothing.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Nice, lovely. I was like, I lied, and I was
like my girlfriend's a huge fan. Could I get a
selfie with you? And she took us so she was
like really nice. She took us stelfie and it was
like kind of the lighting was kind of off and
I was like, oh, this is like kind of bad.
Do you mind if and she was like, oh no,
you could fix it. Took my phone, went into the
photo app, started adjusting level, increased the brand. You could
have taken ten more selfies, but she just like taught

(40:04):
me how to make a koto.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
That's I mean, they say she goes above and beyond.
That really is something.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, I mean she she's a talent and she's like
running the entire US economy right now. But so also
that night, I all the writers and other and people
who work on the show were like, well, we got
to get drugs right right, I can talk about drugs
on the show.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yes, please do actually encourage it.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
So I was in a rented tuxedo and I put
in an order with a drug dealer.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
My guy was named Rick when I lived in Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Oh yeah, well say his full name, say his full name.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
I never got a full name. It's just Rick, just
Rick Rick in my phone, Rick in person. I don't
remember what Rick looked like, but he would show up.
He'd show up when he needs to do.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, I mean, anyhow, so you put an order in,
put an order in, collect a bunch of cash from everybody.
The party was at some huge venue on like Fifth
Avenue in Manhattan, and there's like this very famous intersection
that's like probably Fifth in Park or something. So it's
this huge there's like six lanes from every side, this
huge intersection. Uh, I run. I come out of the venue.
I got all the cash and gripping into my hand,

(41:10):
and the guy was like kitty corner across and all
the lights were red. It was like you can cross
any direction. It's very cold in wintery and windy, and
so I see his car and I just start sprinting
across the street. But as I'm running, like my tuxedo
jacket catches on my hand and the money and it
just explodes, Like three hundred dollars in twenties just explode

(41:32):
in the middle of Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, just and
it's windy, is blowing everywhere. So I'm in a tuxedo.
It's like a snatching, like I'm in a cash cage.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, but it's the streets of New York City, the
cash caages, You're all reality? Was that rock bottom for you?
Does that when you felt like you knew you had
a problem?

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Or I think it probably tickled me so much that
I was like, I'm never changing this life.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Did you wait?

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Did you get the cash? And did you get Ye
got the cash? I got the drug and then you know,
we continue to continue dancing black?

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Did Taylor Swift?

Speaker 3 (42:06):
No? No, I don't you know. No, you're not sure
it makes that. But part of the reason I thought
that that I thought all the old timers would be like, hey,
we're back in thirty rockings. Time to like rid the
rails again. It's been a while, So I thought like
I'd be in like a bathroom stall with Bill Murray
and like Gilda Radner. I guess she probably wasn't a
love friend.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, in heaven at the bathroom stalling.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Heaven's kind of ruined our career, this, this podcast, our
career are a joint career.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
No, I don't think so. So.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
So you're working on there's a new season Rick and
Morty coming. You're executive producer.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
That's very cool, Like, yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Is that like if I'm if I'm close enough friends
with you, I could like voice a character on Rick
and Morty, Like you can get me in there.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Like I'm not saying me, but if I were friends
with you, Like.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yeah, probably I've gotten my friend's voices voice jobs on
the show for sure.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Kind of my favorite thing is to get my friend's work.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Have you thought about having like a guy who's like
a kind of a Jewish like podcast, or guy who's
from Pittsburgh like that as a character. It could be
kind of an interesting Yeah, you don't have a lot
of characters like that on Rick and Morton.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Don't we don't We had an episode had a podcast
in it, so that ship may have sailed well, you know,
I'm just not saying me. It's a person like that.
You're casting a you're casting a wide net.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Though with Jewish podcasters, it's like every podcaster, every second
podcaster is yeah, can you get Nick Fury in there?
Like what happens if you want to do a Nick
Fury thing on Rick and Morty? What happened to.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
Positive Nick Fury has been on this show?

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Really? Sure?

Speaker 3 (43:35):
I think so? It sounds like we always kind of
poop on Marvel on this show. I imagine he's been
on there.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
It sounds correct to me.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
But I mean I was just thinking about your post
credits concept and maybe there's a way to make that.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
I mean, with animation, anything's possible.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Yeah, I mean there's like a there's like a fake
Avengers on the show called Vindicators, and they did a
spinoff show which was very good. So like our Marvel
universe is it, but we reference Marvel a lot. Yeah,
but like you know, Morty's a big fan of the
Vindicators and that's basically Marvel. Yeah, I'll get theory in there.
I would rather get Oppenheimer, and I think he probably
has a better chance of making it in I.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Don't know why there's I mean the scene you described,
there's no reason why that couldn't be put into the
show wholesale.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Like I think that's.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think it could deserly be a tag of it,
which is also a post credit scene of Rick. Could
definitely be an apropos of nothing.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Nothing get whatever.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
The final scene of Oppenheimer is cut to the crew
or whatever, I guess wouldn't be the final scene. It's
just as you described it, just like he's sitting at
a table, pondering what he's done.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
I guess I assume it ends with him.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
He's probably wrapping a he's wrapping like a belt over
a ceiling fan, and he's setting up a little like
a home depot bucket that he's standing on. Right, did
he kill him in a knock at the door? No,
but it's the scene he is.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, that sakes you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, right,
there's a knock at the door. It opens, damn it.
He's like put that rope down or whatever he's using.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
I guess don't know, but that like, back around your trousers,
mister Oppenheimer.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Right, we've got a job, got somewhere to be. Well,
I'll listen. I think I would love to see it happen.
I mean, now that you've said it, now that you've
brought it into my sort of imagination, I'll be bummed
if it doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Yeah, it would, I mean, you know what, maybe God see.
But also, here's other thing. Now that we're talking about it,
it's like, well, now we can't do it.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
You can't do it because it's out there.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
We have to cut this out of the show completely,
and then it'd be I mean, I'm willing to do
that if you actually can deliver on it.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
I mean, if you could commit to me that you'll
get the.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
But also, we move pretty slow. You know, we're not
South Park.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, by the time that's fucking airs Oppenheimer's in the
old News. Yeah, you got to have a way to
get for it to be relevant. Like with uh, it's
going to be.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Exactly, we just don't move that fast. We're not that live.
I mean, i'd like a nice topical thing, but I
also really like an evergreen like this exists in its
own world and isn't.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
It's to do.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
I feel like it's have to do ambitious animation on
a fast turnaround. I mean, I guess AI I'll fix
that right soon. Yeah, he'll just tell the AI what
you want and it'll spit it out. But yeah, the
CEOs will just put in what they want in the
AI and then it'll just spit it out and they
won't need anybody anymore.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
I mean, I think I think it'll even be more
than that, Josh, you will put in I want an
episode of Rick and Morty where they meet Oppenheimer and
Nick Fury, And also I'm in it and I'm a
podcast host, yeah, and I'm the one who introduces them.
And then you'll type that prompt into a laptop and
it'll just spit out your own episode of Rick and Morty.
I think that's where it's going. That sounds like it
sucks so bad. I can't even describe how shitty that sounds.

(46:47):
We actually had we ran, we ran the.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Episode last I think last week of we had the
CEO of Scott David Hols, who's the CEO of mid Journey,
which is the art one of the art ais, and uh,
we definitely that we touched on that a little bit.
But like I talked to the film critic David Denby,
who I don't know if he still writes to The
New Yorker, but I interviewed him many many years ago,
and he described like we were talking about interactive cinema,

(47:12):
and he was like, I kind of want movies to
like dominate me. I want it to be like in
control basically of like my sort of emotions or whatever.
And I think, like, I mean, maybe I'm going to
go back in five years and I'm gonna eat crow
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
The fuck.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
I just don't believe that people actually will enjoy things
that they think they want. I think I think a
lot of people enjoy things because they aren't what they expected.
And I think that being able to tell a machine,
no matter how clever, it can be like the things
you want to have happen, and then have them happen.
It's like you kind of can't tickle yourself, you know.
I think it's a little bit of that, And I

(47:48):
think we're going to learn pretty quickly that after the
kind of excitement of what it can do wears off,
there's a lot that there's a lot of there's a
big gulf between your desire and what a machine can
produce for you.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Yeah, I can see that. I agree. I think it'll
be like, look, it's the first AI completed movie, and
we're all like, I probably won't see it, but people
will be excited about it. But the pendulum will swing
that way for a minute, and then it'll come back
to like I kind of liked it when weirdos just
were allowed to make art that we got to experience.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, I think, I don't know. I mean, maybe they'll
be amazing.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Maybe maybe the AI will come up with with like
much more clever ideas and they'll be much funnier than
than we think. And I don't know, I mean, anything's possible,
but I'm sort of like I expect that there'll be
a lot of people's jobs who get screwed over in
the process.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
But yeah, I think you know, corporations are going to
let it trickle down.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, that's probably true.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I mean because like it's probably easier to do a
full AI podcast because you don't have to worry about visuals,
So like, is that make you nervous? I know, this
is kind of your big.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
No any maker, not my main gig.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
No no, because there are already you don't need AI.
You already have the entirety of humanity producing garbage podcasts
like you don't. And I mean, I say, this is
like I may be a part of that. Like I'm
not trying to tell you know, don't stoot my own
horn or anything. There's already a This is sort of
like the content thing that's like we already have too much.
Like it's not the problem is not quantity, right, The

(49:11):
problem actually is quality. I think that is and I
think increasingly one of the reasons why the streamers have
suffered is they have like tried to create a quantity
sort of their their equation is quantity, and what is
lacking there is the quality. And eventually people catch on
and they're like, wow, I have a mount of things
to see, but nothing I want to watch. And like,

(49:32):
I think that's the same thing is happening just across
the board. I think it's like I think that's to
some extent, has happened in music. I think, I mean,
what that what it looks like, you know, on the
back end of it.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
I have no fucking idea.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
I think it's happening in like in my world, like
in news and media stuff, like I think people are
have been exhausted by like social media and like clickbait,
and I think everybody's kind of like fatigued with this,
like just the wanity of shit and you're kind of like, god,
I'd love just one good thing.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
It feels real, And I think that's why people get
behind like oh white lotus. It's like, Okay, this is good,
it's all I watch it collectively, this is nice.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
Well we watched it, but then like ninety nine percent
of other people didn't. I mean that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
It's like there's stuff that you you and I probably
think being in our respective industries.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
It's like, what is popular? You know it's popular? Is Yellowstone?
Do you watch Yellowstone?

Speaker 3 (50:25):
I haven't, and somebody's like it's been on right thirty years.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
I've never massively popular. I mean it's like the most
popular show. You've never seen an episode of it, and
yet you've probably watched every episode of Succession and he
thought it was amazing exactly, and you know it, no
one else has watched it, Like one million people have
watched Succession in the world.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Yeah, you know, we think it's important. We're coastal elites.
You know we are exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
It's a show made by coastal elites about coastal elites
for coastal elites.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
And it worn't perfectly but I.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Think but you know, listen, it's very rare that anything
is super fucking good and popular. Like there's only a
few There's a Beyonce and the and Beatle, the Beatles,
and like there.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
All be everything?

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Is that everything? Like a B movie?

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, well that's another thing.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
But you know, like, right, I think I think the
film Life Force is high art, but to most people,
most people don't even know it.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
I don't even know what you're talking about you don't
even know it?

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, Can I make a recommendation?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
And I would like if you can get everybody who's
associated with Brick and Morty to participate, Yeah, if they
If everybody who's working on that has not seen the
film Life Force. It is directed by Toby Hooper. It's
based on a novel called The Space Vampires. It is
written by Dan O'Bannon, who's the guy who created Alien,
and it is one of the most insane and amazing

(51:40):
films ever produced. And oh in the I believe, I
believe the soundtrack is by Henry Mancini, So it's like,
got a crazy soundtrack like on. It is first off
in my top five favorite movies of all time. But
it's also like I guarantee you it's unlike any film
you've ever seen in your entire life. And if you're not,

(52:00):
if you don't walk away feeling like thrilled by it,
I'll be very surprised.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
I will watch it, but immediately and I bet you,
I bet you people in the room have seen this movie.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
I know I was gonna say, it's the kind of
film that I would expect that people who are writing
for Rick and Morty are pretty familiar with. It's a
pretty obscure even amongst like sci fi weirdos. It's a
seemingly kind of weirdly obscure thing. Sorry, I don't I
just want to bring it up whenever possible because I
think it's such a gem of a film.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Well, I want to ask you a question because you
were talking about like podcasts and how there's a lot
of podcasts. So I guess what I wanted to ask was,
I guess what, what do you think is the worst
podcast out there?

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Well, that's I mean, I haven't heard it. I mean
the worst podcast is as you haven't heard it, but
like you know, I don't know, Like.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Uh, well, you don't have to answer this. I'm trying
to put this.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I find like celebrities of the podcast be really annoying
because it's like fuck you, like you already have your
Like Dax Shepherd, it's so fucked up that Dak I
have to compete, that we have to lowly ugly people
like me have to compete with Dax sheperd Like, I'm
sure he's a great guy by the way his podcast, No,
he seems great and he's a wonderful he's wonderful and
I'd love to have him on. In fact, let's let's
see if we can get him on. I'd love to

(53:08):
interview him about his podcast. And you know, he seems
lovely and he's in Kristen Bell seems great and he
just seems like a great guy. But like Paul Rudd
or something, has a fucking pot. I just feel like,
I don't know, like Jason Bateman's podcast.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
A popular podcast and it's like a movie stars, right,
I just think it's fucked up, like let us have
let ugly people have something, you know, Like I think
we don't get much these days, you know, like I
understand that everyone's more accepting, but it's not right.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
But worst podcast, I mean, that's a that's a tough
one because it was probably like the Ben Shapiro Show
or something.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Like, you know, like damaging our culture and sins.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the top one hundred,
there's all kinds of shit, like, you know, I don't know,
it's like, you know, it's like the Chuck Bentley Show
or something. You're like, who's Chuck Bentley. He's like, oh,
he's a firebrand, maga preacher or whatever. And his his
he has like twenty million subscribers to his podcast. Like
Chuck Bentley's not a person as far as I know,
but like it's that sort of right, that idea.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Yeah, there's something for everybody out there.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Man, I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. I'd
be honest with you, like.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Yeah, that's fair. What do you think takes the most
time of your day? What do you what do you do?

Speaker 1 (54:16):
It's been doing?

Speaker 2 (54:16):
No, it's it's it's like, probably have a little problem
solving things like that, right, you know. I used to
do a lot of like actual writing, but it's I
find it to be very annoying. I'm not a person
who enjoys the time it takes to write down words.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Yeah, it's it. I mean, you're just banging in your
head against a brick wall the hole. It's miserable. It's
you're a loane, You're lost in your thoughts, you hate everything.
It's miserable and magical at the same time. I do
think I should maybe this goal. I don't have a
goal this year to be published in New Yorker. I
always thought that would be fun.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Oh you could do that online or in this actual magazinete.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
I mean I'd like to have a physical copy, but
I take what I can.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Get online is definitely easier. I mean you could start
with online and see if they like it. We'll graduated
into I feel like you could definitely get something published.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
I don't what did the how do you? I know
this podcast isn't about how to getublished in the n
or but like no, well, but can it be for
the last part.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
The easiest thing is that somebody like me, like introduces
to somebody there who I know, and I go like, oh, hey,
this guy Nicky's super smart. He's one of the producers
on Rick Morty. He wrote this really funny thing or whatever.
Should check it out. I mean, you know, it's all
about nepotism, and you know who you know and who
you know they have, They take submissions, they publish like
they actually publish thoseubmissions all the time. And in fact,
the New Yorker, in their defense, I should say, has

(55:26):
really has made a practice in their entire history of
like publishing unknown not that you're unknown, like you're you're
certainly known.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
No, I want special treatment.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
You must have twenty people who know somebody there, like for.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yuh, I'm sure there's avenues that I should explore. Also,
here's the thing I'm never going to pursue this past
this conversation. No, no, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
I mean you could do like a shouts and murmurs
like a little, like.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
A little It would be some silly thing, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
It's like a McSweeney's light kind of thing. Yeah, they
do a lot of like less interesting than McSweeney's comedy
humor rather, yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Yeah, like real humor. I guess I should start by
reading a New Yorker once.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
You should see what's in there. Yeah, it's a comic, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
No, I think it'd be a real twist for you
is to go and find like an unbelievable journalistic story.
Like you go to fucking like Somalia and like report
on some incredible and like just you're like this guy,
like your whole career has been like in comedy and
writing and like give an Emmy for a fucking Rick
and Morty. But then you go and like just report
out the hardest, craziest fucking story ever.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Right, I like break the next Coney story.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah yeah, and that's well Coney was fake.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
I think that's turned out yeah, I think, but but yeah,
you would crack that kind of case for the New Yorker,
you know, or you write the story. They had a
story about how I think it was a New Yorker.
Maybe be in the Atlantic. There's like a fault line
there that's gonna like make Seattle basically fall off the
the country, like you like, there's gonna be an earthquake
that will send Seattle out to sea or something, you know,

(56:53):
or Washington, all of Washington.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
I could dig into that. I feel like, whatever I do,
if it's like hard hitting, you knowjournalism, I end it
with Nick Fury showing up and asking Seattle to join
the Avengers. And then people get to the end they're like,
damn it, this asshole. He's got one idea.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
I think, yeah, but it's a good one, you know what,
one idea, but it's a good one. I wish you
could have gotten to Christopher Nolan before he finished the
film to tell him this idea, just like there is
something we should If only you had that inception device, Yeah,
you could have put him, put him under and got
him put this idea in his head.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
That's a dream.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Well, there's going to be a director's cut, so there's
still time.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Somebody has to film the scene and like do a bootleg,
like an edit, get Killian Murphy to just like just
just do it, just like will you be in the
scene with anyhow? All right, we've talked this one to death.
I think I think you know what you need to do.
Once the strike is over. Get call Samuel Jackson, call
Christopher Nolan, Killian Murphy and make it happen.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Get a guy with a camera. Get a camera. I
don't even go through the whole production process, but you know, people.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
To do lighting and probably some prop.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Probably need a COVID compliance officer on set.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, yeah, he probably. You know, you have to find
a locations when he has location scout. I guess, yeah,
I need permits.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
I know, we know what I get.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. It's just right there. Nick, this
is like I say, this is super fun, super fun.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
I wasn't sure what exactly we're going to talk about.
There were definitely things I want to talk about. We
hit all of those things and then went way beyond them.
We skated through the routine and then into something very freestyle,
which I enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
It was a real pleasure to talk to you.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
All right, thank you, Josh, thank you.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
We're going to do this again, and uh and enjoy
the rest of your I assume you know, beautiful Los
Angeles day, hotter than hell out there.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Well, that is our show.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I mean, so much show, really, just all of I mean,
I don't even know if we need to do another show.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
At this point.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
We captured I would say, every possible human emotion on
this one, and I loved it. I gotta tell you,
even the human even when we hit the human emotions
of depression and anger, I was still smiling through the pain.
And that's really the most you can ask foreign life,
I think. So that is our show for this week.

(59:22):
We'll be back next week with more what future, and
as always, I wish you and your family the very best.