July 20, 2023 • 50 mins
You may not know this, but Josh is a GAMER. He loves video games. He was raised on video games. He is not good at video games but he does enjoy them deeply. That is why this week Josh is joined by The Washington Post’s Gene Park, one of the greatest gaming journalists to have ever journaled the gaming. Gene and Josh take a rollercoaster ride from Microsoft’s regulatory rodeo to the past, present, and future of the gaming landscape. Come for the sharp insights about video games as art, stay for the trip through Josh & Gene’s favorite titles. Discussed: Being young online, being real online, being.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Tepolski,
and I have to admit something to everyone listening. Gotta
tell you something. It's not something I talk about a lot.
It's not something that I like to put out there
very much. It's very private. But I'm a gamer. You know,
(00:40):
some people might not know that about me, But I
like video games and I play them on a regular basis,
and you know, to be honest with you, I have
not gotten much of a chance on this podcast to
talk about my love of gaming and my status as
an official gamer in the landscape of other gamers, and
so I was hoping and thinking for a long time
(01:04):
about having someone on who I could really get into
it with about video games, both past, present and future.
So the man that immediately came to mind is Washington
Post journalist Gene Park, who is hilarious on Twitter and
other social media platforms and is super smart and interesting
(01:28):
when it comes to I would say adult commentary on
video games, because there's a lot of commentary and video games.
It's not that it's not adult, but it's not quite
at the level that I desire my video game commentary
to be. That said, there's also a lot of great
video game journalism out there, and a lot of great
ethics and video game journalism, which I'm excited about always.
(01:51):
So we got Gene. We said, well, you do the podcast.
I didn't do any of this. This is my producers
and Jean said, yes, I guess, and so we got
him here to talk about game and all sorts of
other stuff, but mostly about video games. So I'm very
excited about this. I have a feeling that we're going
to connect on a deep level and I want to
get into it. So let's go. So first off, I
(02:32):
think we follow each other on a variety of social networks.
Have we ever met in person?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
No, I don't believe so, and I believe this is
the first time we're actually talking face to face, so
with our voices. Josh, nice to meet you. Yeah, it's
nice to meet you too. And I really love following you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think you're a person who first off, you're like
a poster, you know, like you know how to post,
like you're like an original poster. I don't know how
long you've been like in journalism. I think it's been
a pretty long time. Like I want to say, your
career in journalism is significantly longer than mine. When did
you start, like as a journalist.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I've been posting since high school in the mid nineties, right, Okay, yeah,
so that's where my posting abilities come from. I'm originally
from the Pacific Island and American territory of Guam. And
in Guam during the nineties, there was one chat room
and that was where everyone who had Internet on Guam
was going to congregate and talk and gossip and flirt
(03:26):
and whatever.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
And when I was in high school, I was the
moderator of that chat room.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh my gosh, so wow.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, So I had the entire nation of Guam like
like online, like at my fingertips. It was a lot
of power for a fifteen year old.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Who knows that's a huge amount of power. I actually
have a little bit of a similar well not quite that.
That's crazy, like for all of Guam. I think that's
very impressive. Pittsburgh didn't have a lot of like there
was in the mid nineties, Like there was only one
I think maybe one ISP besides like things like Prodigy
and whatever. There was like Prodigy and AOL and and
it was called tele And I worked there as a
(04:01):
teen in like customer support, and I also coined a
great piece of ad copy for them, which was tell
a Rama, tell your Mama, which I thought was frankly,
an incredible troke of genius. Anyhow, but I get it.
I was online at a very young age, way too young,
I think I was on the first time I was
actually on the internet, I was like twelve. Yeah. I
don't know how old you are, and I'm not, you know,
(04:22):
and I'm not going to force you to tell me.
But I'm forty one. Okay, Oh you're a little younger
than me. I'm forty five, and so I've been online
for a long time anyhow.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I'm not even sure I was online in twelve. So
you were online longer, and you've been a live longer too.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I have been a live longer. That is a fact.
You can't this irrefutable unless you talk to like RFK Junior,
who will tell you that's wrong. And here's why.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But to answer your original question, I started journalism right
after college. I graduated college in two thousand and three
and I went back to Guam to work at the
paper there.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And that's how long I've been working, so twenty years.
So twenty years. Yeah, so I think that's probably. I
mean I really started like blogging two thousand and six,
two thousand and seven, like is when I really started,
so like at end gadget. So anyhow long and short
is you're great at posting, and I like following you.
I've been obviously like Twitter now sucks and it's horrible
and we all want to leave it as soon as
humanly possible. But one thing that you do that I
(05:15):
really enjoy is you engage with people, which is great.
I mean, you know, like obviously can sometimes be to
your detriment, but like you know, you will you know,
answer people who are I feel like, kind of being
like asses or at least respond to them in some way,
because there are a lot of asses on Twitter. And
you also like just talk about stuff and like you
post stuff that's like very like real and honest about
like you know, personal stuff, but also like your thoughts
(05:37):
on the industry like that you cover. And so I
enjoy it and I followed you for a long time
and it's always strange, like to like finally like talk
to a person who you think you know, you think
I think I know you, Like I know a bunch
of stuff about you. I'd like know your work, but
we don't really know each other. We don't know what
could happen here. A lot of people have met me
in real life and they would pretty much say, yeah,
(05:59):
you seem to be what I expected, and that's what
I hope for. I'm an elder millennial, right like you?
So or you, I guess you're gen X. I'm gen X. Yeah,
I'm just right on the coast.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But like gen X and millennial, I guess right. Yeah,
But I have no energy to put up a persona online.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I can't be another character online, you know. Yeah, the
character that you see is the character that you get.
I'm if I seem loud, I'm actually loud in real life.
If I seem a little shy, and that's what I
feel like being shy in real life. Right, It's pretty much.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
What what do you expect? So, yeah, no, I think
that's actually like, I think that is a generational thing
to some extent. I feel that very strongly. It's actually
very hard, and in fact, the producers of this show
will tell you. I think there's a little slight like
frustrating element of I'm like not self promotional and I
don't like to affect a vibe of whatever it is
(06:50):
I'm not actually feeling, you know, and like it's interesting
joining all these new social networks now, you know, trying
to like play around with them, like blue Sky and
mask it On and now obviously Threads, I'm like, Okay,
what do I want to post here? Honestly, lately, a
lot of it is like I don't want to post anything.
I kind of don't feel like engaging. It's like, God,
the idea of like, I don't know, are you on threads?
(07:11):
You must be?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think I follow you are Actually you probably follow
each other. I'm not really active there right now.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But right are you? Like? Oh god, now I have
to like do threads? Like is that a thing that
you feel daunted by? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I'm before I cover video games, I want to have
been covering video games for three years. So just to
be clear, a lot of people think that I've been
in the games industry for a long time. We're covering
the beat for a long time.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You've only been doing for three years.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's only been three years, just like two and a
half years.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But before that, I was a social media and audience
editor to Washington Post. And part of the reason why
I'm glad I'm not at that job anymore is because
I can't keep up with all these platforms anymore. You know,
TikTok is one that I've just given up on. It's
a completely different language. Again, Like you would need to
be a different persona for that platform.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And you have to like produce video for it. Like
that's the problem for me, is like I don't I
don't know. I just don't want to like have to
make a video, you know, being self promotional on video too, right, Yes, no,
it's very cringe in my in my opinion, there's just
a high level of cringe. Now, you and I may
have a different like radar for cringe. We may think
things are cringey as we might have referred to them
(08:16):
at an earlier era. Now they've just shortened it. They're
just taking off letters. But I see a lot of stuff,
and I see people who are like, you know, some
people who are like contemporaries of mine. Not that many
certainly around this age. But and I'm like, like, I
don't I wouldn't post that like personally, like that doesn't
feel like a thing i'd do.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, man, me too. I have a lot of friends
my age on TikTok and I'm watching them and I'm like,
I don't know if I really like your content, and
I don't know if everybody works. You know, It's it's
I wouldn't tell them this in their face, but I'm
a little embarrassed, you know, right, right, No, No.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It's it's wild when you like see somebody that you
know pretty well and then you see them on TikTok
and like you're.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Like, oh yeah, and it's like, I know you don't
do these dances in real life, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Right, It's like I got a life this now, because
otherwise it is going to seem really weird. Like you know,
it's like, yeah, you don't want to bring it up,
but anyhow, so you're good. You're good at posting. I'm
actually very curious now. I thought, for some reason, you've
been covering games longer. I think perhaps it is because
I feel like your voice on it is very authoritative.
I think like you have really interesting commentary and sort
(09:19):
of like a perspective on gaming that I find to
be you know, I mean, I think I assume it
goes out saying that you're a lifelong gamer. Am I am?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I correct and understanding that. Yeah, thanks for saying that.
It's funny that you say that, because earlier today I
actually did a training with a bunch of our Washington
Post interns. One of my biggest pieces of advice. Well,
they were asking me why I sound so authoritative, And
part of that is because of my long history of
just reporting in other topics crime courts, local city council,
(09:49):
state government, and transportation, education, right, a lot of factual
based stuff. So I was able to like really strengthen
my writing voice in that way. And also, plus, I'm
a lifelong gamer, so so if I'm authoritative on something
like fucking traffic or something, imagine how authoritative I might
sound if it's something that I actually like and I've
been liking and doing for it since i was six
years old, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think there's part of it is one hundred percent
what you just said. It's like you have this experience
in all these other places where like and you know,
I think this is one of the things that's been
lacking and gaming for so long, is like taking it seriously,
like it's like this is serious, like it is important.
Like I think gaming is really important. I think it's
like the most exciting, like newest art form that exists,
(10:31):
and there's nothing else like it in the world. And
like to have the perspective to report on it well
and to talk about it thoughtfully. I think what you've
done previously clearly like adds to it anyhow, So obviously
I think you're great. I've been just been a compliment
fest for the whole beginning of this. We can talk
about this decision with Microsoft and Activision. Pretend somebody's listening
is and they have no idea what's going on with
(10:51):
Microsoft and Activision, and like the legal system that is
like trying to regulate what they're doing, Could you like
explain it in a very simple way. Sure? Sure.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So Microsoft has the Xbox division, which which you know,
creates the games and makes the game consoles, and Xbox
has been kind of struggling in terms of producing content
to feed that ecosystem. Right now, Xbox wants to be
the quote unquote Netflix of games, so they have a
service called game Pass where you subscribe for at least
(11:24):
or at most fifteen dollars a month, and at least
it's a dollar a month depending on what kind of
deals you get. You get access and you're able to
download a smortgage board of video games probably about two
hundred wrote rotin library video games and.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You just get to play them for a dollar a month.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
They could be it could be as low as a
dollar a month if you just like buy it Xbox
and you like use a free coupon like in the
box or whatever could deal. It could be a dollar
could be fun. I think they re actually raised it
to two bucks now, so you know, oh no, oh no.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That's not bad, right, Okay, So it's like in all
you can eat, Like it's like games you can stream
and down can stream and download it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I mean that's the difference between this and Netflix is
that like you can actually download the games and it'll
be in your hardware. You won't own it, right, you
can still buy it, which is a nice thing. You
can't really buy stranger things off Netflix, right.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Like everything on Netflix is like you're leasing it for
the duration that you view it and then yeah, it
goes back into the back to their servers or whatever. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So about a year and a half ago, Microsoft announced
that well they've been on an acquisition acquisition spree where
they've been buying video game studios up and their last
big acquisition was but there's a game Studios which they
acquire for seven million dollars. And these are the guys
who make the Elder Scrolls games. I'm sure many of
your listeners know the game Skyrim, Fallout, Fallout right, and
(12:44):
then upcoming my favorite Fallout three Star Fuel coming out
this spot, right. And then so Microsoft announced about a
year and a half go that they were going to
buy Activision Blizzard King for the tune of sixty nine
billion dollars, easily theges gaming acquisition ever, the biggest tech
tech acquisition.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Is that, right, It's the biggest tech acquisition ever.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that's actually said in the decision. But
then there's of course, like you know Disney buying Fox
and that was like one hundreds over one hundred billion dollars,
I believe, and then AT and T buying Warner, which
was also just like a little bit bigger. So it's
definitely on that scale. I think it's probably like the
six to seven biggest acquisition of all time. That's crazy.
And then so an acquisition that big would fall under
(13:28):
a lot of regulatory scrutiny. So various different regulatory bodies
around the world are looking at the deal and they've
mostly approved it. I think it's basically thirty nine countries
that improved it. Right now, the only one pending is
the UK with their Competitive Markets Authority and the FTC.
So the FTC filed suit for preliminary injunction basically a
(13:51):
temporary restraining order on the deal to stop it, basically
signing anti trust concerns. FTC Commissioner Lena Kahan, you know,
has built her career on anti trust legislating and this
was a big deal for her. Yeah, So the FTC
try to sue Microsoft had They had hearings in San
Francisco Federal Court for the last few weeks and the
(14:15):
judge sided against the FTC and basically said there's no
reason to hold this up and we can go into
those reasons more later if you want. But that's basically
what happens. So it is pretty clear a green light
for the deal to go ahead, and the deal is
supposed to close July eighteenth.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Right the FTC is there's some have they already countered
or sorry appealed or are going to appeal. They have
already apeled Yeah, they appealed, but.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know, as my understanding is, that's just procedural and also,
you know, appeals to rarely ever win.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
You know, so so Activision Blizzard King Is that the
full name of the business, Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
The king part is important because the king part is
the one that makes candy crush. That's the real moneymaker
along with call of duty. You know, is candy crusherly like,
is is it? I haven't like looked at these numbers
in a while. It's it's still popular, right, Okay, wow?
Interesting then you look I mean, I listen.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I think like when you get right down to it,
there's only a few things that really stick on a phone,
Like there's really in the history, Like when it comes
to like this shit, like, there's gonna be a few
things and it's gonna be like yeah, like candy Crush
will just be there forever.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, candy Crust is still popular, but a lot of
people don't really talk about it. It's like keta mean,
like you don't really understand like how prevalament it is
until you see someone.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Like oh, okay, people are still doing this, okay, till
you get a bump and you're like, hey, actually this
is terrific.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Why don't I why I do this all the time.
That's what the case sounds for an ABK right, yeah, yeah, okay,
So they make Candy Crush, they make the Call of
Duty series, which is a very very popular propaganda for
the US military, perhaps perhaps the single most effective piece
of propaganda that has ever been created in service of
(15:51):
convincing people that the US military rocks. Not saying that
the military is bad, but I think the military industrial
complex is not great, you know, just really speaking. But anyhow,
call of Duty? What else do they make? What I mean,
give me another do they make what's the new that's
on the blizzard side?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And they make World of Warcraft, which I'm sure a
lot of people Okay that was a phenomenon a couple
of years ago, used to.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Be popular, but now it's waned slightly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Activision also owns a Crash Bandicoot of.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Course, the lucrative Crash Bandicoot franchise.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And goes own the Tony Hawkfeedeo games too.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So all right, Tony Hawk, that's but you know, kind
of honestly, like so here's where it words rom getty like, Yes,
these games are obviously very well known, successful, huge moneymakers.
But even with all of those titles, I don't know,
and even with Bethesda, like Sony still seems to have
like the better games. And my understanding is that part
(16:47):
of this deal, they're not saying like we're not going
to release Call of Duty for the PlayStation right. In fact,
like they kind of have to make some kind of
commitment to releasing those games eventually, right, Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, they did have to commit to that, and they've
also said that it would make monetary sense to continue
to make it because you know, one I did, one
of the biggest audiences for Call of Duty is on PlayStations,
so they would probably lose money of the life they
decided to stop it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So so so yeah, So, like there's a lot of
publishers that have a lot of really popular games. I guess,
like you know, on the Sony side, like Sony as
a as a publisher in and of itself, it is
probably responsible for some of the most popular titles, and
like I don't know, Like I guess the Sony also
own a bunch of studios like I actually don't remember
they do the most.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Notably they own Naughty Dog and the makers of Last
of Us.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Oh, yeah, about incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
While ago, I think doing the PlayStation three era, they
made the Uncharted games, which is basically you know, millennial
Indiana Jones, right, oh yes, and then they own in
some NAT games and they're currently very popular for their
Spider Man games, which are fantastic.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Right, They're really good. They're really good. Okay, so they're
trying to buy Activision Activision Blizzard King makes all these games,
including Candy Crush. The FTC says, Look, this is an
antitrust situation. This is a monopolistic acquisition, right, is that's
(18:14):
the idea, Like, by buying a company this large and
attaching it to where you already have all these other
businesses that are producing huge franchises, you threaten the potential
of the fair market here or something. Is that correct? Yeah?
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I think there's an argument to be made about,
you know, the fact that it's Microsoft that's doing in. Microsoft,
that's the fourth largest company in the world, that already
has its fingers, its fingers in so many different pies
already right now, it wants to dominate the video game space,
which is definitely not and that was probably what helped
Microsoft the Microsoft's case to most the fact that it
is a struggling brand in the in the Vidya game market.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Right Like, Comparatively, I guess the PlayStation brand and Sony's
gaming efforts are more successful and Nintendo, I mean, Nintendo
is I would guess, way more successful in terms of
I mean, they strike me as being the most successful
video game company. I think they.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Probably had the highest profits. I don't know if they
hid the highest revenues, but I think in terms of.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Profits they are. This is actually something we'll get into
this because I do want to talk about Nintendo for
a minute, and we'll get into that, but just to
just to kind of like, you know, cap this off,
so it seems like it's going to go through. I guess,
like my feeling is, I'm always loath to side with
like a huge corporation over something.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
There's no good guys, there's no real good guys in
the story.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
No, they're still good guys. I mean I just feel like, well,
first off, it's like, you know, what is the goal?
Why is it necessary? I guess if you're not going
to limit the release of these games for other platforms,
which it sounds like they're claiming they're not going to
Does it even serve their goal to I guess it does,
because there's all kinds of other things you can do,
like licensing and IP stuff and like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I guess the probably with Microsoft is that it's been very,
very bad at managing intellectual property, you know. Yeah, so
you see Mario and Mario just came out with a
movie this year and it's actually the biggest box off
office block muster.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Of the year. Yeah, insane.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
That comes from Nintendo building and nurturing and nursing an
IP for the last forty years. So when a Mario
movie just comes out, it already has an automatic worldwide,
huge audience.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Microsoft doesn't really have anything anything like that. They have Halo.
They did a show, Yeah, and they did the show
which was not great. Yeah, well the paramount says that
it did. Okay, So it's like okay, I'm sure, but
the Halo characters are really dumb. I'm sorry, Like, who's
the main guy, master Chief. It's a really dumb character.
It's like a it's like a marine. First off, it's
like it's like a military guy and you like don't
(20:35):
see him.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
He's always like war. He's like you.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Always talking about war, like the people fighting. Yeah, he's
not supposed to be anything or anybody. He's supposed to
be an average He's right, you're supposed to imprint yourself
on this idea. He's got a hood, like he's always
wearing a mirrored mask or whatever, like helmet, and you're
just supposed to be like, this could be anybody. I mean,
he obviously is like, you know, tough military bro or whatever.
But yeah, and then the show was like, actually, know
(21:00):
he's this guy and he also has sex.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
You know, so isn't he Isn't he different from you? Oh? Really?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
They showed they showed his face. They show his face
numerous times. That was a huge controversy, the fact that
they showed that that he can't keep his helmet off.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And I don't mind it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I think it's I think it makes sense for the
for the guy to keep his helmet off.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
But it was a huge deal.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But then I was fine with this the show until
he took his like the rest of his armor off
to have sex.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And I was like, right, okay, you think he should
have kept the armor on, but just removed the pelvic area.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, I don't think he should have had sex. It
completely ruins completely well master Chief. Does master Chief not
have desires? Does he not deserve love? I mean, he's
got to ask yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Because he does. But he has sex with a prisoner
of war in the story.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh that's inappropriate, that's not cool, like his prisoner, it's
his prisoner.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I mean it's consensual, but the balance.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Of power, you know, Okay, Yeah, I feel like that's
not a good way to start a relationship. I would
at least wait till they're out and free, and then
if they come back and they're like, hey, you know what,
I thought we had something while I was a prisoner,
then maybe let them take the initiative. But uh, okay,
well that raises many questions. Certainly, I now feel like
I really want to see Master Chief's face and also
hopefully his nude body. I definitely am interested in. Yeah,
(22:21):
his but okay, master chiefs but just fully out there.
So actually, but it's a character. I'm sorry, like you're
comparing it, like you're saying, that's a franchise they have, right, sure,
if master Chief is the most like relatable character that
Microsoft has created, it's kind of like, yeah, like this
is sort of hits your point home, right, like exactly,
they can't there where? Who's there super Mario? Yeah? You know? Yeah,
(22:42):
I mean you look at Mario.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
He has so much personality, you know everything about him.
You know, he's a working class hero. You know, he
likes to eat, he looks very happy. There's a lot
you can read from him just by looking at him.
And then when Master Chief it's like, oh, he's a soldier.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Guy, he likes I would do it. He likes to eat,
Like yeah, I mean, I actually I don't I know.
He likes to eat. He doesn't apparently like mushrooms. Now,
according to the movie, the film is canon. A lot
of canon changes in the film. From what I can tell,
a lot of things that are introduced. I don't want
to give any spoilers, but I watched the movie with
my daughter Zelda. She loved it. I've been telling people, like,
(23:16):
there's a really interesting this is as much as I'll
say about it, there's a really interesting thing in the
film about the Italian, about Mario's Italian accent. That's all
I'll say. But I found it to be quite shocking. Frankly, Yeah,
and I don't know if that's a controversial point that
people have been talking about. But anyhow, sorry, So Microsoft
sucks at IP. I totally interrupted you just too. I
(23:37):
don't even know what, but Microsoft sucks at IP.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, that's why they want to acquire activistion Blizzard because
has all of his other IP.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You know, that makes sense, And I think, like maybe
they need some IP because like Sony has like really
good IP. I mean, Sony has the best shit, Like
the Last of Us is like I mean, Sony and
Nintendo both, but like, yeah, they've created some pretty iconic
characters and brands, and I feel like, you know, I mean, Microsoft,
like why not let them take a crack at it?
Like maybe the unfair market is that they don't have
(24:05):
any cool characters that anybody cares about.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So well, this is a comparison I've made, I've started
to make recently. You think about what Microsoft is as
a company and what they've always been. They've never been
an entertainment company, right, They're not in a company that
manages IP or culture or art. You know, Sony has
Sony Pictures, Sony's Sony has been in music publishing for
for decades. Yeah, Nintendo is Nintendo, right, of course, Nintendo
(24:29):
Nintendo does when Nintendo does. Yeah, Microsoft creates operating systems, right,
it creates software.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's the plumbing. And this is like Bill Gates. I
better have cited this on a recent podcast, but Bill
Gates famously there's an interview with him where he talks
about how like they don't want to be the stuff
you see, they want to be the plumbing. And like
that's exactly what Microsoft has created, right, Like, it's not
the character up top, It's not like every character they create, Clippy,
huge failure. They tried to be like personable with the Zoon.
The Zooon was like had a lot of character, but
(24:58):
everybody hated it exactly. I'm trying to think of other
Microsoft characters. There's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I mean, there's a Windows Phone, you know, doesn't really
have a lot of personality there too, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
No horrible. I mean, I mean I actually like the
Windows Phone interface, but it was just a bunch of squares. Yeah,
I've heard it was bit it was fun and I
like the Windows interface too. I mean I'm using it
right now Xbox. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And that's the thing about the game Pass service. It
does well, Microsoft does best. It's a really good service.
It's a really good online service. I think it could
be used by everyone, you know, very much like what
Microsoft products have been, right, But there's just nothing creative
there and that's really fueling it, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, so they need to plug in, Like essentially, like
your Netflix analogy is like Netflix only got really rose
to it's like crazy success in the period when they
started making original content and they started to have these
like yeah, huge franchises that were like everybody had to
see and like in order. I guess this is really
the idea, right, They're using this model. Like if you
(25:54):
look at the Netflix model, it's like you make Stranger
Things and House of Cards and there are other ones
I can't think of right now. I don't a bird box.
I have a fucking note. But you know, like if
you make these things that everybody's like you got to
see it and you can only see it on your platform,
that's a match made and heaven right ever last year two? Right? Yeah,
it's a good game, right, I mean sort of in
a way very Apple right, where it's like the software
(26:15):
the hardware and it's all like walled off, like you
can only get it in this experience or whatever. But
it's it's it's like a monopoly of ecosystems, right, Like
everybody wants you in their system and in their world
and wants to like wants you to pay for it
and wants to give you the best stuff so you
never leave, or give you stuff that you want so
you never leave. I mean it makes a lot of
sense in that regard. But like they're gonna need a
(26:38):
lot more than just like a couple of game companies,
right like Microsoft, Yeah one, they need like a lot
of IP to really make that, like like Sony produces
like like the Spider Man IP is theirs, right, Like
they have Spider Man and that's like the first party
thing that they're producing.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Like I love a synergy with the movies and the
game too.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, right exactly. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean it makes
sense for them. I mean xboxes. I had a series
X and I is that the new one Series X
that was called Ye, that's the new one. I had it.
I hadn't I had. I never opened it, and I
we'd ended up doing like a giveaway with it at
one of my one of my websites because I was like, yeah,
I have a PC and I have a PlayStation in
the PlayStation five, and I'm like, Xbox, if you have
(27:19):
a decent PC, you're fo Yeah, I have a My
PC kicks ass. I literally like built my PC in
preparation for Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
That's a whole other Oh man, I love that game.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, I love that game too. Only elden Ring has
topped my playtime on a game. Oh totally. I've actually
only recently done the thing that I think people normally do,
where you actually I probably played Fallout three more than
both of those games. But that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
That's at a time when I wasn't. I had a
huge affinity for Fallout three. When I first moved to
DC in twenty fifteen. The first thing, the very first
thing I did when I moved to DC, was I
put on my my head my headphones, and I walked
around listening to the Fallout three soundtrack just to come yes, dude,
relived that experience in real life.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It was.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It was awesome because Fallout three, for people who don't
know it, takes place at a post apocalyptic Washington, DC.
So I'm walking around to the city, I'm like, Wow,
it really is like the game, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, it has like really pretty like well crafted map
points that are like if you if you go to
DC like and look at them, they're like, oh yeah,
like that's exactly what it looks like. But in Fallout
obviously even re created the metros. Yeah no, it's awesome,
And I mean I spent so much time playing Follow
three and anyhow. Okay, so so right, but Fallout three
that that is that's a long time ago. But yeah, no,
(28:30):
I'm cyberpunk. This is. We could talk about that for
for for hours, but that's true. I mean we really,
we really could. But yeah, like let's talk about Nintendo
for a second, because it is interesting to me, like
when they announced the Wii. First off, like there was
a period where Nintendo kind of wasn't and maybe I'm
maybe this is just my perception of it, but I
feel like there was a period like post s NES
(28:53):
or SNATS as some people might refer to, which I
think is wrong, but you know whatever, to each its own,
there was I feel like there was a period where
there was like, yes, Nintenda was releasing game systems and
they were doing okay, but they none of them really
seemed to be like the thing that everybody played I
feel like it was like when the PlayStation. When PlayStation
came into existence, everybody's attention shifted to PlayStation. Like all
(29:16):
the people I knew and all the people that I
gamed with were like we were playing like Metal Gear
and like whatever that first gen you know, like Silent
Hill and all that stuff, and it was like we
were like, Okay, this is it, this is the next thing.
And I feel like for a while there, Nintendo wasn't
that competitive with them. Is that by the way, Is
that my perception or is that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Like that's true? And you know, for people ton't know,
that was an issue of format. Nintendo didn't want to
use CDs as the medium to deliver games, whereas PlayStation,
which originally developed the PlayStation of Fort Nintendo, until Nintendo decided, nah,
it's crazy. That's why Sony decided to say, okay, well
we made this whole video game system with CDs, we
(29:53):
might as well just release it and call it the PlayStation.
And that'll happened. And it was really an issue of format. So,
like you know, Final Fantasy sixteenes came up, but Final
and Fantasy seven came out on the PlayStation because it
had the CD format. They could not make Final Fantasy
seven Middle Gear Solid on the Nintendo sixty four, which
was in a very limited cartridge format totally. There's not
(30:14):
a lot of space for audio, there's a lot of
space for video, there's not a lot of memory space
for like three D three D imagery, whereas.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
The PlayStation did right. So, and this was also at
a time when CD ROMs were very prevalent, like in
the computing world. It wasn't like it was a weird
new format that nobody had ever heard of. It was
like very common if you were a computer user to
encounter like the Encarta CD or whatever, you know, like
or whatever it is you we put on CDs. So like, yeah,
(30:41):
that's interesting. But Nintendo, So this is sort of what
I was going to get to, is that they are
always doing this thing where they're like rejecting the kind
of status quo, Like they're rejecting this idea. Like I
think there was a real conceit across the board in
the video game industry at that time, because I feel
like that was right around the era of like three
D Oero and Jaguar, which actually was cartridge base but
(31:05):
I think it had a CD adapter Turbographics is probably
it's like last the generation before it. My favorite game
system the Turbo Graphics also known as the PC Engine,
but that had a CD adapter and like I think,
and then eventually the Turbo Duo, which was just a
single unit with the CD but in the Sega CD obviously,
and there was a real like conceit amongst all the
seemingly all of the companies that like CDs were the
(31:25):
thing and you needed to go to CD, and Nintenda
was like, no, we're not going to do that, and
then they did. Actually, God, now that I'm thinking it
was so weird. They're so fucking weird. Then they released
what is.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
It, the N sixty four that was a cartridge that
was that wasn't when I used cartridge and that was
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
No, that was cartridge was the beginning. That's kind of
floundering period. That's Golden Eye, right, that's like the GoldenEye
GoldenEye too.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, so like it had had great, amazing games like Goldeneye'
obviously Mario Mario Party Smashed Brothers debut on that system too.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well. Their thing was like there their idea there was
like we're not going to do CDs, the games are
going to be way less complex in a way. But
the whole thing with that was we think more people
should play. It was like a group thing, right because
it had four controller inputs on the front instead of
the normal two that you saw in every other system. Right,
this is as I as we talk about it's actually
like my mind is going back to like all this
(32:16):
weirdness intent. It's always like everybody's doing CDs, so we
don't care about that. But what we think might be
interesting is like what if four people could play instead
of two? And then eventually they do with the game Cube.
I guess right, they do three inch I want to
say they do mini the mini CDs? Am I crazy?
ABC's I don't even know what that's called. Hold on,
(32:36):
what is it? I'm just going to google it right now?
Miny CDs many they're called a mini CD.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Okay, they're called a mini CD okay.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And yeah, this is a thing where Nintendo's like, hey,
you know what, CDs are cool, but not the ones
that hold all the stuff. We want the ones that
hold like half as much stuff, Like that's our thing.
And so they released the game Cube, which I'll admit
I bought. I definitely bought for a specific game, like
(33:06):
I want to say, maybe it was a Resident Evil title. Yeah, yeah,
I definitely bought a Dreamcast. I bought the Dreamcast. Oh
that was another CD bassist in the Dreamcast. I bought
that to play Code Veronica. And I'm really dating myself
right now. Geene, you know everything. Everything I'm talking about.
You're familiar with, correct, I know all the games. You
have very good tastes, So there's that. Yeah, thank you, Well,
I try. I have a very specific kind of taste.
(33:29):
There's only a few types of games that I really enjoy,
and I enjoy them heavily. I'll tell you. Oh, you
know what game I've probably played more of than any
other game is a Dead Cells. Are you Dead Cells playing? Yeah?
I love Dead Cells. Yeah, I've played Dead Cells like
more than I think any other game I've ever played.
That's another game that's actually very souls like. It's like
you have to be good at it to enjoy it.
(33:50):
That's a game that has the perfect mixture of you
can pick it up at any time and play it totally,
or you can sit and do a whole session for
hours and hours. But like if you can only play
for five minutes, like it's pretty enjoyable, or you want
to play for like two hours, it's enjoyable. Anyhow, Okay,
so Nintendo does this weird shit. And then when they
announced the Wii, which was like, I don't know what
(34:12):
year that was, two thousand, God, I don't know one,
I don't know. That doesn't sound right and it doesn't matter.
They announced the Wii, and I was like, this is
fucking stupid, Like nobody wants this shit, Like nobody wants
to like stand in their living room with these things
and like pretend they're golfing or whatever. And I will say,
you know, I don't rarely get things wrong. I'm usually
(34:32):
totally right about everything. But people fucking love the Wii.
Right like the we brought them back basically from this
like weird gray zone into like it became like the thing.
Am I crazy again for remembering it that way? No,
you're not, But this is most of the time. When
they started releasing the Nintendo DS, which is actually the well,
(34:52):
I think, the second highest selling video game like machine
of all time, just under the PlayStation two writ handheld,
they were like handheld, Yes, it was a handheld market
and the casual market of the we that really kind
of you know, relifted their fortunes basically for the rest
of the century. Okay, anyhow, But so the thing with
(35:21):
Nintendo is the switch. This is where I'm getting to
by the way, I know, I swear I had a point.
There's a long winded way of getting there. The switch
is like again, they announced it and I was like,
I don't know, like why, Like it's like underpowered. It's
like really underpowered. Like even when they announced it, it
was like, oh, it only does seven twenty right, that
(35:41):
was a big thing. It doesn't even do full HD.
It only does and correct me if I'm wrong, but
it is only seven to twenty max right on the
handheld device.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, it could go up to trinity on the screen
on the TV, which is decent. Right, that's definitely not
four K. It can't hit four K at all.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
So no, Well, there was a lot of controversy about
them even doing it like HD. I remember there was
I feel like there was some era where like they
wouldn't like the WI wasn't HD.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Oh yeah, we was not HHD. I think that only
went up to four I think they only went up
to like four eighty I and then We You was
the first. Yeah, actual, HD completely forgot about the WU
and let me say so, I just connected the mine
back up actually just the other day, dude.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So I found mine in a box like a month ago,
and I was like, I should put this, I should
hook this back up. So I bought the w U
because of Zombie U. Yeah, that's a great game, which
I thought looked like the dopest fucking game in the world.
And I have to say, to this day one of
the greatest, one of the greatest games ever made, particularly
(36:36):
on the WU because of the way they used the controller.
But I've actually played it. I've actually played on a
bunch of different like I have it on my PC,
and like it's like one of the best zombie games.
I feel like it has not gotten like the cred
that it deserves or the or the love that it deserves.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
We haven't given Zombie You as its flowers as a
culture because it's it's very good, Okay, We You kind
of was not successful, right, The WU was sort of a.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
It is the worst setting Colusstle of all time. Wow.
Really definitely the worst Nendo's ever made, for sure. So
the switch comes out from what I can tell, and
you tell me if I'm wrong, because I feel like
you probably know these numbers. It seems like it's like
the biggest selling like game console of all time or something.
Am I am? I crazier saying that it's number three
(37:20):
right now.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Okay, so they're gunning to replace the Nintendo DS, and
it seems that they're going to hit, right, it's still
a question of whether they're going to hit the one
hundred and fifty four million that the PlayStation two sold.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Oh, that's the biggest selling of all time. The PlayStation
two is the biggest selling of all time.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
And a big factor that is the fact that it
was the cheapest DVD player on the market at the time.
So if you wanted to watch movies at home, that's amazing.
Light as well just buy a PlayStation two because it's
way way because remember when DVD players were like three
hundred four hundred bucks for some reason.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yes, I do, I definitely do remember that. I mean
it's crazy, crazy to think, yeah, anyhow.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But yeah, the switches catch you up though. The switches
catch you up right, and it's still selling a bunch.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
It's telling a bunch and it's like and it's like
it's like Nintendo's that does this thing that I'm like
so sort of I'm so confused by it. I don't
understand why it works to a degree. Like they keep
going like, hey, do you like super Mario, Like remember
that Super Mario game you loved as a kid? Super
Mario two or whatever. They're like, we rebate it. It's
the same game, but it's like better and it's for
(38:20):
the new system, and people are like, oh my god,
they're fucking lining up for it. And that's the same
thing they do with Pokemon, Like all the time they're like, hey,
remember the Pokemon you loved as a teen, Now you're thirty,
and we remade it for the switch, and like it
just seems like it shouldn't work, like right, Like it's
like it's like the Marvel movies. Now people are kind
of like, eh, I'm okay, I'm like I've seen these all.
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Still playing Pokemon as a forty year old, you know, yes, yes,
But what's more insane is not just that you're playing it.
My guess is recently, pretty recently, you've played a game
that was like it's a remade version of a game
that you played already, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I mean that's a bunch of games. But the Pokemon
franchise in particular is like they're always like.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Pokemon would would just remake
remakes basically you know so.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Right, and you think it shouldn't work, and like it
always does, and I don't understand, like it, like, what
is it about Nintendo? What is it about them that
allows them to have these notions? Like do you have
any understanding of how it is they come up with
these like weird, left of center kind of ideas that
just somehow like really connect with with humans.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I think that they always focus on the concept of play.
So you look at Zelda, Tiers of the Kingdom and
other games are talking about, oh, how can I get
powered up? Or how how can I feel more powerful
or have more combos or moves and stuff like that, right, yeah,
that's every other game, whereas in Zelda, Zelda asks you,
(39:42):
see what happens when you put this square into the
square hole and see how how good that feels? You know, right,
it's basically that old TikTok you know. It's now, see
what happens when you put a triangle in a square hole.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Oh yeah, oh my god, that's a great that's a great.
Wait is that is that a vine? Actually? I think
it was.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I think it was a TikTok. It's it feels a
as old as of mine for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah, I know what I was talking about. That.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, it's definitely an old TikTok. But it's like very
simple concepts that are very easy to understand. You know,
build the sea saw, I see how the seesaw works.
So there's a primal instinct of they have this connection
on the concept of play that I think a lot
of other companies still are forgetting. And that's why they
focus so much on cartridges back then, because they figured
(40:25):
that the loading times of the CDs would get in
the way of the play, because nobody wants to just
sit around and wait until the game starts up.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Again. Turns out we do, yeah, but you know, we do.
We turns out we will pretty much spend like a
pretty good segment of our lives waiting for shit to load.
And it's only recently that we are now, Like only today, really,
I feel like, have we gotten to a point where
you can play a game pretty much the whole time
and never have it load, which is they's spent over
twenty years and we finally got to this point. You know,
it's pretty amazing, I will say.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
But well, Mario's creator also says, you know, he says
he never plays any other games, so there's kind of
like a tunnel vision there, like he only plays Mario.
He just doesn't play games, I guess, and he just
has ideas. You know, I don't know how much he
is really into making games these days, because he's over seventy.
He mostly oversaw like the creation of like well, the
(41:12):
Mario movie and also the theme park in Universal Studios too,
so he's.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Been doing you're talking about a shagear. The creative Mario Manzilda.
So I met him at CS when I was thirteen.
My dad took me to CS in Chicago and he
was there. Oh man, I met him and he signed
my badge and drew Mario on it. Okay, and some
I believe somewhere in my parents' house is that fucking badge.
(41:37):
And I'm I would really like to find it, and
I'd like to get up. I'm like, I like, I'm
not not to sell it or something, because I think
it would be fucking amazing, you know, like to frame
or whatever. We've talked about a lot of things. I
feel like I rambled us into some weird territory, but
I'd like to get from you a little bit of
presaging about the future of video games. I'll start with
(41:57):
some simple things, and then I'll take it into a
more complicated space. First off, are there any games that
are coming out in the near future that you are
particularly excited about and feel like are going to be
particularly interesting or good.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
This is gonna be an obvious answer, but I'm definitely
looking forward to the next pathestic game, Starfield.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Are you worried that it's going to be a No
Man's Sky situation? I am worried that the game will
be a lot simpler than I think it appears to be.
And that's partially because Fallout four came out and they
simplified so many things from Fallout three, which is why
I still look at Fallout three so much more favorably.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I agree, so they.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Had more systems going on, it was mu much more
of a role playing game. Fallout four really simplified, like
the decisions you make. They used to be very multifaceted,
and then Fallout four they became very binary. So they've
been trending that way for why for the last decade
or so. So I'm worried that Starfield is going to
(42:59):
be the culmination of that that's trimming down of every
role playing aspect. But they seem to be promising a lot.
But then the issue is that Todd Howard, the director
of but As the Studios, has been a little you know,
I respect him a lot, I love him, but he's
also a bit of a charlatan, you know, and he
just he just says things, you know, and it doesn't
come out to be exactly true. So I'm really really
(43:23):
fascinated interested to see whether there are actually a thousand
planets that the game promises that you can fly around
in and explore.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeh see. See. When I hear that, I'm like, it's
too many planets, Like I feel like one of the
problems with the game too lately for me is like
there's too much going on, there's so much to do
that I'm like, I don't know what to do here,
Like there's too much, too many options, you know. Yeah,
I will say you were talking about the new Zeuda
which is called Tiers of the Kingdom, right, is that
the subtitle. I haven't played it yet because I haven't
(43:51):
finished Breath of the Wild, which is a whole thing.
I mean, I just I never got into Bath of
the Wild. I would just go to Teers of the
Kingdom lodency first.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
It's fine, really, you think I can just jump into it.
About the narrative, the story barely matters. I think the
game like barely remembers Breath of the Wild happened. And
that's been kind of a meme right where like you know,
people are like, oh, where does Tears are king of
fit in the timeline? And people are like, I don't
know if it even fits on the timeland and Breath
of the Wild because it barely mentions the Breath of
the Wild. Right, So I think you can go to
Tiers in Kingdom feeling pretty good about yourself.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
So just cool, there's it's a much better good. Okay,
All right, Well you've I mean i've I mean I've
been watching people's videos, like not too much because I
don't want spoil it, but what it does, what it's
doing looks like so much fun and so creative and
like just like crazily creative. I'm like, god, this is
such a Nintendo move. It just feels like everybody's zigging
and they zag and where they zag is just like
(44:39):
a crazy, like super fun, playful thing. Like to your
point about play. By the way, we forgot that Microsoft
owns Minecraft, which or I forgot to mention it, but
that's a huge franchise for them. Like Minecraft is like
very popular, right, so I mean they have that it's
the best selling game of all time. Well, there you
have it. I mean, Microsoft, they're they're crushing it.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
But Minecraft and Zelda, Tears and the Kingdom have a
lot of in common because, like you know, there's so
much creative a right they're building so like like several
years ago, Minecraft was popular for you know, people was
able to actually create a working computer inside Minecraft, right,
And in Zelda they're actually starting to.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Do that now too, if they realize. If you look
up a subreddit.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Hiro engineering, Zelda players have already gone moved on to
fuse entanglement and quantum physic physics. No, come on, that's crazy.
That's already happening in Zelda there, you know, I.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Mean that's it was my first thought when I saw
what people were doing with it. I'm like, oh, they
kind of took the Minecraft concept. They did. I want
to get your take on Apple's on the Vision pro Like,
obviously there's like gaming implications. There's huge gaming implications with
like any company who's doing VR, give me, like your
take on that, and I guess maybe more broadly like
(45:49):
VR and if you think that's like actually where gaming
is headed.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
VR is interesting because people have been trying to have
it for a long time and trying to make it happen.
I keep going back to this VR conference I attended
in California several years ago, and this was around the
time when the Nintendo Switch and Breadth of the Wild
came out and Zelda Breath at the while, and it
was interesting to see all these VR creators and CEOs
(46:13):
of VR companies, and they explicitly referenced Zelda. They were
especially fascinated by the fact that Zelda and the Nintendo
Switch were selling one to one. Every copy of Zelda
would come with Nintendo Switch and vice versa, and they
were fascinated by that and they were jealous of it.
They were like, we're trying to sell VR hardware, but
(46:34):
we have no software. That is as compelling as a
Zelda to move actual hardware, to get consumers to spend
hundreds of dollars in hardware and an adjuster living space
around it. And they haven't found that, And I feel
like that's still where VR is. That said, I'm really
really excited for apples and pro. I'm a huge Apple fan.
(46:57):
I have so many different Apple products and I've just
really leaned into the wall garden aspect of Apple. I'm
enjoying it, and if I could afford it, I would
totally get get a vision pro. After that press conference
happened and with Apple, I was walking around to Washington
Post newsdroop asking various people of knowledge or of management,
(47:18):
so what is her Apple vision pro strategy? Because we're
getting some for the office right right?
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Are you are you? Actually? Nobody said anything. I think
you could make it happen. I mean you could definitely,
like someone's getting it for review there right, Like yeah,
for sure, for hear that.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And then we have like a bunch of VR headsets
around because like you know, the Washington Puss is played
with VR a ar like storytelling.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I think we kind of gave up it for a while,
but you know, well that's because it was a gimmick
and everybody was kind of like it's.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Exactly So, I mean, I'm sure people are watching the
vision pro and wondering like, like, do we need Apple
to have to make VR a thing?
Speaker 1 (47:49):
I don't know, but I think I think your point
is actually really well taken. It's how you know, I've
thought about a lot of this, having tried a ton
of these things. I mean, I have lots of issues
with their concept of how to do it, but like
my big one is actually what you said, which is like,
what's the thing, What's the app or the game or
the experience that's so compelling that you will put this
thing on and like tune out the world and go
(48:12):
like totally immersive into it. And like, I just think
nobody has established like I've played some very compelling and
very immersive stuff, Like I think some of the Star
Wars stuff they did, for like with the Quest was
really really cool, and I told you, I'm like, oh,
this is awesome, Like you just check it out. It's
super fun. But like to invest like a signific amount
of time or energy into that, like, well, first off,
(48:32):
VR makes me nauseous, So like I have to take
dramamine to use it. It makes me sick.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
So there's also like that hurdles. Like when I played
Half Life Alex on the Steam VR, incredible game. I've
never experienced anyone like it, Like I would probably think
that that's probably the closest name to an actual killer app,
where like, anyone interested in vide games you should absolutely
try that out. But it was so realistic that I
was nauseous for about two hours.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
You know. Oh wow, Like that's interesting because I bought
that game with the intention because obviously it's Half Life.
I bought that game with the intention of, like, I'm
going to play this. I just need to like get
the headset and like hook it up and whatever. And
I've never I've kind of just been like, well, I'm
not going to get into that, and so I've avoided
it completely. But I wouldn't just buy one just for it.
And that's the problem, right right exactly, That's that is
(49:19):
the problem. In a nutshell. Okay, Gene, I got to
let you go. Unfortunately, this is super fun. You definitely
got to come back. And frankly, we can talk about
it probably a lot of stuff, but the gaming stuff
is so interesting to hear somebody with like your history
and experience, it's just like really fun to get your
perspective on it. So thank you so much for doing this,
and you know, come back soon.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, thanks for having me and I'd love to be
back soon.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Thanks so much. Well, Gene's great. I love Gene. I
got to say, and I don't know that I've ever
had in recent memory of conversation that was quite that
nerdy and in the weeds frankly about the weird video
games that I that I like. I do feel extremely
(50:01):
good because Jeane said that I had good taste in
video games, and I think coming from him, that's a
massive compliment. So that gives from my ego that's a
great boost, very exciting stuff. Anyhow, that is our show
for this week. We will be back next week with
more what Future, and as always, I wish you and
your family the very best.
Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Tepolski,
and I have to admit something to everyone listening. Gotta
tell you something. It's not something I talk about a lot.
It's not something that I like to put out there
very much. It's very private. But I'm a gamer. You know,
(00:40):
some people might not know that about me, But I
like video games and I play them on a regular basis,
and you know, to be honest with you, I have
not gotten much of a chance on this podcast to
talk about my love of gaming and my status as
an official gamer in the landscape of other gamers, and
so I was hoping and thinking for a long time
(01:04):
about having someone on who I could really get into
it with about video games, both past, present and future.
So the man that immediately came to mind is Washington
Post journalist Gene Park, who is hilarious on Twitter and
other social media platforms and is super smart and interesting
(01:28):
when it comes to I would say adult commentary on
video games, because there's a lot of commentary and video games.
It's not that it's not adult, but it's not quite
at the level that I desire my video game commentary
to be. That said, there's also a lot of great
video game journalism out there, and a lot of great
ethics and video game journalism, which I'm excited about always.
(01:51):
So we got Gene. We said, well, you do the podcast.
I didn't do any of this. This is my producers
and Jean said, yes, I guess, and so we got
him here to talk about game and all sorts of
other stuff, but mostly about video games. So I'm very
excited about this. I have a feeling that we're going
to connect on a deep level and I want to
get into it. So let's go. So first off, I
(02:32):
think we follow each other on a variety of social networks.
Have we ever met in person?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
No, I don't believe so, and I believe this is
the first time we're actually talking face to face, so
with our voices. Josh, nice to meet you. Yeah, it's
nice to meet you too. And I really love following you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think you're a person who first off, you're like
a poster, you know, like you know how to post,
like you're like an original poster. I don't know how
long you've been like in journalism. I think it's been
a pretty long time. Like I want to say, your
career in journalism is significantly longer than mine. When did
you start, like as a journalist.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I've been posting since high school in the mid nineties, right, Okay, yeah,
so that's where my posting abilities come from. I'm originally
from the Pacific Island and American territory of Guam. And
in Guam during the nineties, there was one chat room
and that was where everyone who had Internet on Guam
was going to congregate and talk and gossip and flirt
(03:26):
and whatever.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
And when I was in high school, I was the
moderator of that chat room.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh my gosh, so wow.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, So I had the entire nation of Guam like
like online, like at my fingertips. It was a lot
of power for a fifteen year old.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Who knows that's a huge amount of power. I actually
have a little bit of a similar well not quite that.
That's crazy, like for all of Guam. I think that's
very impressive. Pittsburgh didn't have a lot of like there
was in the mid nineties, Like there was only one
I think maybe one ISP besides like things like Prodigy
and whatever. There was like Prodigy and AOL and and
it was called tele And I worked there as a
(04:01):
teen in like customer support, and I also coined a
great piece of ad copy for them, which was tell
a Rama, tell your Mama, which I thought was frankly,
an incredible troke of genius. Anyhow, but I get it.
I was online at a very young age, way too young,
I think I was on the first time I was
actually on the internet, I was like twelve. Yeah. I
don't know how old you are, and I'm not, you know,
(04:22):
and I'm not going to force you to tell me.
But I'm forty one. Okay, Oh you're a little younger
than me. I'm forty five, and so I've been online
for a long time anyhow.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I'm not even sure I was online in twelve. So
you were online longer, and you've been a live longer too.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I have been a live longer. That is a fact.
You can't this irrefutable unless you talk to like RFK Junior,
who will tell you that's wrong. And here's why.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But to answer your original question, I started journalism right
after college. I graduated college in two thousand and three
and I went back to Guam to work at the
paper there.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And that's how long I've been working, so twenty years.
So twenty years. Yeah, so I think that's probably. I
mean I really started like blogging two thousand and six,
two thousand and seven, like is when I really started,
so like at end gadget. So anyhow long and short
is you're great at posting, and I like following you.
I've been obviously like Twitter now sucks and it's horrible
and we all want to leave it as soon as
humanly possible. But one thing that you do that I
(05:15):
really enjoy is you engage with people, which is great.
I mean, you know, like obviously can sometimes be to
your detriment, but like you know, you will you know,
answer people who are I feel like, kind of being
like asses or at least respond to them in some way,
because there are a lot of asses on Twitter. And
you also like just talk about stuff and like you
post stuff that's like very like real and honest about
like you know, personal stuff, but also like your thoughts
(05:37):
on the industry like that you cover. And so I
enjoy it and I followed you for a long time
and it's always strange, like to like finally like talk
to a person who you think you know, you think
I think I know you, Like I know a bunch
of stuff about you. I'd like know your work, but
we don't really know each other. We don't know what
could happen here. A lot of people have met me
in real life and they would pretty much say, yeah,
(05:59):
you seem to be what I expected, and that's what
I hope for. I'm an elder millennial, right like you?
So or you, I guess you're gen X. I'm gen X. Yeah,
I'm just right on the coast.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But like gen X and millennial, I guess right. Yeah,
But I have no energy to put up a persona online.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I can't be another character online, you know. Yeah, the
character that you see is the character that you get.
I'm if I seem loud, I'm actually loud in real life.
If I seem a little shy, and that's what I
feel like being shy in real life. Right, It's pretty much.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
What what do you expect? So, yeah, no, I think
that's actually like, I think that is a generational thing
to some extent. I feel that very strongly. It's actually
very hard, and in fact, the producers of this show
will tell you. I think there's a little slight like
frustrating element of I'm like not self promotional and I
don't like to affect a vibe of whatever it is
(06:50):
I'm not actually feeling, you know, and like it's interesting
joining all these new social networks now, you know, trying
to like play around with them, like blue Sky and
mask it On and now obviously Threads, I'm like, Okay,
what do I want to post here? Honestly, lately, a
lot of it is like I don't want to post anything.
I kind of don't feel like engaging. It's like, God,
the idea of like, I don't know, are you on threads?
(07:11):
You must be?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think I follow you are Actually you probably follow
each other. I'm not really active there right now.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But right are you? Like? Oh god, now I have
to like do threads? Like is that a thing that
you feel daunted by? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I'm before I cover video games, I want to have
been covering video games for three years. So just to
be clear, a lot of people think that I've been
in the games industry for a long time. We're covering
the beat for a long time.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You've only been doing for three years.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's only been three years, just like two and a
half years.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But before that, I was a social media and audience
editor to Washington Post. And part of the reason why
I'm glad I'm not at that job anymore is because
I can't keep up with all these platforms anymore. You know,
TikTok is one that I've just given up on. It's
a completely different language. Again, Like you would need to
be a different persona for that platform.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And you have to like produce video for it. Like
that's the problem for me, is like I don't I
don't know. I just don't want to like have to
make a video, you know, being self promotional on video too, right, Yes, no,
it's very cringe in my in my opinion, there's just
a high level of cringe. Now, you and I may
have a different like radar for cringe. We may think
things are cringey as we might have referred to them
(08:16):
at an earlier era. Now they've just shortened it. They're
just taking off letters. But I see a lot of stuff,
and I see people who are like, you know, some
people who are like contemporaries of mine. Not that many
certainly around this age. But and I'm like, like, I
don't I wouldn't post that like personally, like that doesn't
feel like a thing i'd do.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, man, me too. I have a lot of friends
my age on TikTok and I'm watching them and I'm like,
I don't know if I really like your content, and
I don't know if everybody works. You know, It's it's
I wouldn't tell them this in their face, but I'm
a little embarrassed, you know, right, right, No, No.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It's it's wild when you like see somebody that you
know pretty well and then you see them on TikTok
and like you're.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Like, oh yeah, and it's like, I know you don't
do these dances in real life, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Right, It's like I got a life this now, because
otherwise it is going to seem really weird. Like you know,
it's like, yeah, you don't want to bring it up,
but anyhow, so you're good. You're good at posting. I'm
actually very curious now. I thought, for some reason, you've
been covering games longer. I think perhaps it is because
I feel like your voice on it is very authoritative.
I think like you have really interesting commentary and sort
(09:19):
of like a perspective on gaming that I find to
be you know, I mean, I think I assume it
goes out saying that you're a lifelong gamer. Am I am?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I correct and understanding that. Yeah, thanks for saying that.
It's funny that you say that, because earlier today I
actually did a training with a bunch of our Washington
Post interns. One of my biggest pieces of advice. Well,
they were asking me why I sound so authoritative, And
part of that is because of my long history of
just reporting in other topics crime courts, local city council,
(09:49):
state government, and transportation, education, right, a lot of factual
based stuff. So I was able to like really strengthen
my writing voice in that way. And also, plus, I'm
a lifelong gamer, so so if I'm authoritative on something
like fucking traffic or something, imagine how authoritative I might
sound if it's something that I actually like and I've
been liking and doing for it since i was six
years old, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think there's part of it is one hundred percent
what you just said. It's like you have this experience
in all these other places where like and you know,
I think this is one of the things that's been
lacking and gaming for so long, is like taking it seriously,
like it's like this is serious, like it is important.
Like I think gaming is really important. I think it's
like the most exciting, like newest art form that exists,
(10:31):
and there's nothing else like it in the world. And
like to have the perspective to report on it well
and to talk about it thoughtfully. I think what you've
done previously clearly like adds to it anyhow, So obviously
I think you're great. I've been just been a compliment
fest for the whole beginning of this. We can talk
about this decision with Microsoft and Activision. Pretend somebody's listening
is and they have no idea what's going on with
(10:51):
Microsoft and Activision, and like the legal system that is
like trying to regulate what they're doing, Could you like
explain it in a very simple way. Sure? Sure.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So Microsoft has the Xbox division, which which you know,
creates the games and makes the game consoles, and Xbox
has been kind of struggling in terms of producing content
to feed that ecosystem. Right now, Xbox wants to be
the quote unquote Netflix of games, so they have a
service called game Pass where you subscribe for at least
(11:24):
or at most fifteen dollars a month, and at least
it's a dollar a month depending on what kind of
deals you get. You get access and you're able to
download a smortgage board of video games probably about two
hundred wrote rotin library video games and.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You just get to play them for a dollar a month.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
They could be it could be as low as a
dollar a month if you just like buy it Xbox
and you like use a free coupon like in the
box or whatever could deal. It could be a dollar
could be fun. I think they re actually raised it
to two bucks now, so you know, oh no, oh no.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That's not bad, right, Okay, So it's like in all
you can eat, Like it's like games you can stream
and down can stream and download it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I mean that's the difference between this and Netflix is
that like you can actually download the games and it'll
be in your hardware. You won't own it, right, you
can still buy it, which is a nice thing. You
can't really buy stranger things off Netflix, right.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Like everything on Netflix is like you're leasing it for
the duration that you view it and then yeah, it
goes back into the back to their servers or whatever. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So about a year and a half ago, Microsoft announced
that well they've been on an acquisition acquisition spree where
they've been buying video game studios up and their last
big acquisition was but there's a game Studios which they
acquire for seven million dollars. And these are the guys
who make the Elder Scrolls games. I'm sure many of
your listeners know the game Skyrim, Fallout, Fallout right, and
(12:44):
then upcoming my favorite Fallout three Star Fuel coming out
this spot, right. And then so Microsoft announced about a
year and a half go that they were going to
buy Activision Blizzard King for the tune of sixty nine
billion dollars, easily theges gaming acquisition ever, the biggest tech
tech acquisition.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Is that, right, It's the biggest tech acquisition ever.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that's actually said in the decision. But
then there's of course, like you know Disney buying Fox
and that was like one hundreds over one hundred billion dollars,
I believe, and then AT and T buying Warner, which
was also just like a little bit bigger. So it's
definitely on that scale. I think it's probably like the
six to seven biggest acquisition of all time. That's crazy.
And then so an acquisition that big would fall under
(13:28):
a lot of regulatory scrutiny. So various different regulatory bodies
around the world are looking at the deal and they've
mostly approved it. I think it's basically thirty nine countries
that improved it. Right now, the only one pending is
the UK with their Competitive Markets Authority and the FTC.
So the FTC filed suit for preliminary injunction basically a
(13:51):
temporary restraining order on the deal to stop it, basically
signing anti trust concerns. FTC Commissioner Lena Kahan, you know,
has built her career on anti trust legislating and this
was a big deal for her. Yeah, So the FTC
try to sue Microsoft had They had hearings in San
Francisco Federal Court for the last few weeks and the
(14:15):
judge sided against the FTC and basically said there's no
reason to hold this up and we can go into
those reasons more later if you want. But that's basically
what happens. So it is pretty clear a green light
for the deal to go ahead, and the deal is
supposed to close July eighteenth.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Right the FTC is there's some have they already countered
or sorry appealed or are going to appeal. They have
already apeled Yeah, they appealed, but.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know, as my understanding is, that's just procedural and also,
you know, appeals to rarely ever win.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
You know, so so Activision Blizzard King Is that the
full name of the business, Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
The king part is important because the king part is
the one that makes candy crush. That's the real moneymaker
along with call of duty. You know, is candy crusherly like,
is is it? I haven't like looked at these numbers
in a while. It's it's still popular, right, Okay, wow?
Interesting then you look I mean, I listen.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I think like when you get right down to it,
there's only a few things that really stick on a phone,
Like there's really in the history, Like when it comes
to like this shit, like, there's gonna be a few
things and it's gonna be like yeah, like candy Crush
will just be there forever.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, candy Crust is still popular, but a lot of
people don't really talk about it. It's like keta mean,
like you don't really understand like how prevalament it is
until you see someone.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Like oh, okay, people are still doing this, okay, till
you get a bump and you're like, hey, actually this
is terrific.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Why don't I why I do this all the time.
That's what the case sounds for an ABK right, yeah, yeah, okay,
So they make Candy Crush, they make the Call of
Duty series, which is a very very popular propaganda for
the US military, perhaps perhaps the single most effective piece
of propaganda that has ever been created in service of
(15:51):
convincing people that the US military rocks. Not saying that
the military is bad, but I think the military industrial
complex is not great, you know, just really speaking. But anyhow,
call of Duty? What else do they make? What I mean,
give me another do they make what's the new that's
on the blizzard side?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And they make World of Warcraft, which I'm sure a
lot of people Okay that was a phenomenon a couple
of years ago, used to.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Be popular, but now it's waned slightly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Activision also owns a Crash Bandicoot of.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Course, the lucrative Crash Bandicoot franchise.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And goes own the Tony Hawkfeedeo games too.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So all right, Tony Hawk, that's but you know, kind
of honestly, like so here's where it words rom getty like, Yes,
these games are obviously very well known, successful, huge moneymakers.
But even with all of those titles, I don't know,
and even with Bethesda, like Sony still seems to have
like the better games. And my understanding is that part
(16:47):
of this deal, they're not saying like we're not going
to release Call of Duty for the PlayStation right. In fact,
like they kind of have to make some kind of
commitment to releasing those games eventually, right, Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, they did have to commit to that, and they've
also said that it would make monetary sense to continue
to make it because you know, one I did, one
of the biggest audiences for Call of Duty is on PlayStations,
so they would probably lose money of the life they
decided to stop it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So so so yeah, So, like there's a lot of
publishers that have a lot of really popular games. I guess,
like you know, on the Sony side, like Sony as
a as a publisher in and of itself, it is
probably responsible for some of the most popular titles, and
like I don't know, Like I guess the Sony also
own a bunch of studios like I actually don't remember
they do the most.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Notably they own Naughty Dog and the makers of Last
of Us.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Oh, yeah, about incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
While ago, I think doing the PlayStation three era, they
made the Uncharted games, which is basically you know, millennial
Indiana Jones, right, oh yes, and then they own in
some NAT games and they're currently very popular for their
Spider Man games, which are fantastic.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Right, They're really good. They're really good. Okay, so they're
trying to buy Activision Activision Blizzard King makes all these games,
including Candy Crush. The FTC says, Look, this is an
antitrust situation. This is a monopolistic acquisition, right, is that's
(18:14):
the idea, Like, by buying a company this large and
attaching it to where you already have all these other
businesses that are producing huge franchises, you threaten the potential
of the fair market here or something. Is that correct? Yeah?
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I think there's an argument to be made about,
you know, the fact that it's Microsoft that's doing in. Microsoft,
that's the fourth largest company in the world, that already
has its fingers, its fingers in so many different pies
already right now, it wants to dominate the video game space,
which is definitely not and that was probably what helped
Microsoft the Microsoft's case to most the fact that it
is a struggling brand in the in the Vidya game market.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Right Like, Comparatively, I guess the PlayStation brand and Sony's
gaming efforts are more successful and Nintendo, I mean, Nintendo
is I would guess, way more successful in terms of
I mean, they strike me as being the most successful
video game company. I think they.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Probably had the highest profits. I don't know if they
hid the highest revenues, but I think in terms of.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Profits they are. This is actually something we'll get into
this because I do want to talk about Nintendo for
a minute, and we'll get into that, but just to
just to kind of like, you know, cap this off,
so it seems like it's going to go through. I guess,
like my feeling is, I'm always loath to side with
like a huge corporation over something.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
There's no good guys, there's no real good guys in
the story.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
No, they're still good guys. I mean I just feel like, well,
first off, it's like, you know, what is the goal?
Why is it necessary? I guess if you're not going
to limit the release of these games for other platforms,
which it sounds like they're claiming they're not going to
Does it even serve their goal to I guess it does,
because there's all kinds of other things you can do,
like licensing and IP stuff and like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I guess the probably with Microsoft is that it's been very,
very bad at managing intellectual property, you know. Yeah, so
you see Mario and Mario just came out with a
movie this year and it's actually the biggest box off
office block muster.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Of the year. Yeah, insane.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
That comes from Nintendo building and nurturing and nursing an
IP for the last forty years. So when a Mario
movie just comes out, it already has an automatic worldwide,
huge audience.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Microsoft doesn't really have anything anything like that. They have Halo.
They did a show, Yeah, and they did the show
which was not great. Yeah, well the paramount says that
it did. Okay, So it's like okay, I'm sure, but
the Halo characters are really dumb. I'm sorry, Like, who's
the main guy, master Chief. It's a really dumb character.
It's like a it's like a marine. First off, it's
like it's like a military guy and you like don't
(20:35):
see him.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
He's always like war. He's like you.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Always talking about war, like the people fighting. Yeah, he's
not supposed to be anything or anybody. He's supposed to
be an average He's right, you're supposed to imprint yourself
on this idea. He's got a hood, like he's always
wearing a mirrored mask or whatever, like helmet, and you're
just supposed to be like, this could be anybody. I mean,
he obviously is like, you know, tough military bro or whatever.
But yeah, and then the show was like, actually, know
(21:00):
he's this guy and he also has sex.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
You know, so isn't he Isn't he different from you? Oh? Really?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
They showed they showed his face. They show his face
numerous times. That was a huge controversy, the fact that
they showed that that he can't keep his helmet off.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And I don't mind it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I think it's I think it makes sense for the
for the guy to keep his helmet off.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
But it was a huge deal.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But then I was fine with this the show until
he took his like the rest of his armor off
to have sex.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And I was like, right, okay, you think he should
have kept the armor on, but just removed the pelvic area.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, I don't think he should have had sex. It
completely ruins completely well master Chief. Does master Chief not
have desires? Does he not deserve love? I mean, he's
got to ask yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Because he does. But he has sex with a prisoner
of war in the story.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh that's inappropriate, that's not cool, like his prisoner, it's
his prisoner.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I mean it's consensual, but the balance.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Of power, you know, Okay, Yeah, I feel like that's
not a good way to start a relationship. I would
at least wait till they're out and free, and then
if they come back and they're like, hey, you know what,
I thought we had something while I was a prisoner,
then maybe let them take the initiative. But uh, okay,
well that raises many questions. Certainly, I now feel like
I really want to see Master Chief's face and also
hopefully his nude body. I definitely am interested in. Yeah,
(22:21):
his but okay, master chiefs but just fully out there.
So actually, but it's a character. I'm sorry, like you're
comparing it, like you're saying, that's a franchise they have, right, sure,
if master Chief is the most like relatable character that
Microsoft has created, it's kind of like, yeah, like this
is sort of hits your point home, right, like exactly,
they can't there where? Who's there super Mario? Yeah? You know? Yeah,
(22:42):
I mean you look at Mario.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
He has so much personality, you know everything about him.
You know, he's a working class hero. You know, he
likes to eat, he looks very happy. There's a lot
you can read from him just by looking at him.
And then when Master Chief it's like, oh, he's a soldier.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Guy, he likes I would do it. He likes to eat,
Like yeah, I mean, I actually I don't I know.
He likes to eat. He doesn't apparently like mushrooms. Now,
according to the movie, the film is canon. A lot
of canon changes in the film. From what I can tell,
a lot of things that are introduced. I don't want
to give any spoilers, but I watched the movie with
my daughter Zelda. She loved it. I've been telling people, like,
(23:16):
there's a really interesting this is as much as I'll
say about it, there's a really interesting thing in the
film about the Italian, about Mario's Italian accent. That's all
I'll say. But I found it to be quite shocking. Frankly, Yeah,
and I don't know if that's a controversial point that
people have been talking about. But anyhow, sorry, So Microsoft
sucks at IP. I totally interrupted you just too. I
(23:37):
don't even know what, but Microsoft sucks at IP.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, that's why they want to acquire activistion Blizzard because
has all of his other IP.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You know, that makes sense, And I think, like maybe
they need some IP because like Sony has like really
good IP. I mean, Sony has the best shit, Like
the Last of Us is like I mean, Sony and
Nintendo both, but like, yeah, they've created some pretty iconic
characters and brands, and I feel like, you know, I mean, Microsoft,
like why not let them take a crack at it?
Like maybe the unfair market is that they don't have
(24:05):
any cool characters that anybody cares about.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So well, this is a comparison I've made, I've started
to make recently. You think about what Microsoft is as
a company and what they've always been. They've never been
an entertainment company, right, They're not in a company that
manages IP or culture or art. You know, Sony has
Sony Pictures, Sony's Sony has been in music publishing for
for decades. Yeah, Nintendo is Nintendo, right, of course, Nintendo
(24:29):
Nintendo does when Nintendo does. Yeah, Microsoft creates operating systems, right,
it creates software.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's the plumbing. And this is like Bill Gates. I
better have cited this on a recent podcast, but Bill
Gates famously there's an interview with him where he talks
about how like they don't want to be the stuff
you see, they want to be the plumbing. And like
that's exactly what Microsoft has created, right, Like, it's not
the character up top, It's not like every character they create, Clippy,
huge failure. They tried to be like personable with the Zoon.
The Zooon was like had a lot of character, but
(24:58):
everybody hated it exactly. I'm trying to think of other
Microsoft characters. There's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I mean, there's a Windows Phone, you know, doesn't really
have a lot of personality there too, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
No horrible. I mean, I mean I actually like the
Windows Phone interface, but it was just a bunch of squares. Yeah,
I've heard it was bit it was fun and I
like the Windows interface too. I mean I'm using it
right now Xbox. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And that's the thing about the game Pass service. It
does well, Microsoft does best. It's a really good service.
It's a really good online service. I think it could
be used by everyone, you know, very much like what
Microsoft products have been, right, But there's just nothing creative
there and that's really fueling it, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, so they need to plug in, Like essentially, like
your Netflix analogy is like Netflix only got really rose
to it's like crazy success in the period when they
started making original content and they started to have these
like yeah, huge franchises that were like everybody had to
see and like in order. I guess this is really
the idea, right, They're using this model. Like if you
(25:54):
look at the Netflix model, it's like you make Stranger
Things and House of Cards and there are other ones
I can't think of right now. I don't a bird box.
I have a fucking note. But you know, like if
you make these things that everybody's like you got to
see it and you can only see it on your platform,
that's a match made and heaven right ever last year two? Right? Yeah,
it's a good game, right, I mean sort of in
a way very Apple right, where it's like the software
(26:15):
the hardware and it's all like walled off, like you
can only get it in this experience or whatever. But
it's it's it's like a monopoly of ecosystems, right, Like
everybody wants you in their system and in their world
and wants to like wants you to pay for it
and wants to give you the best stuff so you
never leave, or give you stuff that you want so
you never leave. I mean it makes a lot of
sense in that regard. But like they're gonna need a
(26:38):
lot more than just like a couple of game companies,
right like Microsoft, Yeah one, they need like a lot
of IP to really make that, like like Sony produces
like like the Spider Man IP is theirs, right, Like
they have Spider Man and that's like the first party
thing that they're producing.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Like I love a synergy with the movies and the
game too.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, right exactly. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean it makes
sense for them. I mean xboxes. I had a series
X and I is that the new one Series X
that was called Ye, that's the new one. I had it.
I hadn't I had. I never opened it, and I
we'd ended up doing like a giveaway with it at
one of my one of my websites because I was like, yeah,
I have a PC and I have a PlayStation in
the PlayStation five, and I'm like, Xbox, if you have
(27:19):
a decent PC, you're fo Yeah, I have a My
PC kicks ass. I literally like built my PC in
preparation for Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
That's a whole other Oh man, I love that game.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, I love that game too. Only elden Ring has
topped my playtime on a game. Oh totally. I've actually
only recently done the thing that I think people normally do,
where you actually I probably played Fallout three more than
both of those games. But that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
That's at a time when I wasn't. I had a
huge affinity for Fallout three. When I first moved to
DC in twenty fifteen. The first thing, the very first
thing I did when I moved to DC, was I
put on my my head my headphones, and I walked
around listening to the Fallout three soundtrack just to come yes, dude,
relived that experience in real life.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It was.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It was awesome because Fallout three, for people who don't
know it, takes place at a post apocalyptic Washington, DC.
So I'm walking around to the city, I'm like, Wow,
it really is like the game, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, it has like really pretty like well crafted map
points that are like if you if you go to
DC like and look at them, they're like, oh yeah,
like that's exactly what it looks like. But in Fallout
obviously even re created the metros. Yeah no, it's awesome,
And I mean I spent so much time playing Follow
three and anyhow. Okay, so so right, but Fallout three
that that is that's a long time ago. But yeah, no,
(28:30):
I'm cyberpunk. This is. We could talk about that for
for for hours, but that's true. I mean we really,
we really could. But yeah, like let's talk about Nintendo
for a second, because it is interesting to me, like
when they announced the Wii. First off, like there was
a period where Nintendo kind of wasn't and maybe I'm
maybe this is just my perception of it, but I
feel like there was a period like post s NES
(28:53):
or SNATS as some people might refer to, which I
think is wrong, but you know whatever, to each its own,
there was I feel like there was a period where
there was like, yes, Nintenda was releasing game systems and
they were doing okay, but they none of them really
seemed to be like the thing that everybody played I
feel like it was like when the PlayStation. When PlayStation
came into existence, everybody's attention shifted to PlayStation. Like all
(29:16):
the people I knew and all the people that I
gamed with were like we were playing like Metal Gear
and like whatever that first gen you know, like Silent
Hill and all that stuff, and it was like we
were like, Okay, this is it, this is the next thing.
And I feel like for a while there, Nintendo wasn't
that competitive with them. Is that by the way, Is
that my perception or is that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Like that's true? And you know, for people ton't know,
that was an issue of format. Nintendo didn't want to
use CDs as the medium to deliver games, whereas PlayStation,
which originally developed the PlayStation of Fort Nintendo, until Nintendo decided, nah,
it's crazy. That's why Sony decided to say, okay, well
we made this whole video game system with CDs, we
(29:53):
might as well just release it and call it the PlayStation.
And that'll happened. And it was really an issue of format. So,
like you know, Final Fantasy sixteenes came up, but Final
and Fantasy seven came out on the PlayStation because it
had the CD format. They could not make Final Fantasy
seven Middle Gear Solid on the Nintendo sixty four, which
was in a very limited cartridge format totally. There's not
(30:14):
a lot of space for audio, there's a lot of
space for video, there's not a lot of memory space
for like three D three D imagery, whereas.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
The PlayStation did right. So, and this was also at
a time when CD ROMs were very prevalent, like in
the computing world. It wasn't like it was a weird
new format that nobody had ever heard of. It was
like very common if you were a computer user to
encounter like the Encarta CD or whatever, you know, like
or whatever it is you we put on CDs. So like, yeah,
(30:41):
that's interesting. But Nintendo, So this is sort of what
I was going to get to, is that they are
always doing this thing where they're like rejecting the kind
of status quo, Like they're rejecting this idea. Like I
think there was a real conceit across the board in
the video game industry at that time, because I feel
like that was right around the era of like three
D Oero and Jaguar, which actually was cartridge base but
(31:05):
I think it had a CD adapter Turbographics is probably
it's like last the generation before it. My favorite game
system the Turbo Graphics also known as the PC Engine,
but that had a CD adapter and like I think,
and then eventually the Turbo Duo, which was just a
single unit with the CD but in the Sega CD obviously,
and there was a real like conceit amongst all the
seemingly all of the companies that like CDs were the
(31:25):
thing and you needed to go to CD, and Nintenda
was like, no, we're not going to do that, and
then they did. Actually, God, now that I'm thinking it
was so weird. They're so fucking weird. Then they released
what is.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
It, the N sixty four that was a cartridge that
was that wasn't when I used cartridge and that was
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
No, that was cartridge was the beginning. That's kind of
floundering period. That's Golden Eye, right, that's like the GoldenEye
GoldenEye too.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, so like it had had great, amazing games like Goldeneye'
obviously Mario Mario Party Smashed Brothers debut on that system too.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well. Their thing was like there their idea there was
like we're not going to do CDs, the games are
going to be way less complex in a way. But
the whole thing with that was we think more people
should play. It was like a group thing, right because
it had four controller inputs on the front instead of
the normal two that you saw in every other system. Right,
this is as I as we talk about it's actually
like my mind is going back to like all this
(32:16):
weirdness intent. It's always like everybody's doing CDs, so we
don't care about that. But what we think might be
interesting is like what if four people could play instead
of two? And then eventually they do with the game Cube.
I guess right, they do three inch I want to
say they do mini the mini CDs? Am I crazy?
ABC's I don't even know what that's called. Hold on,
(32:36):
what is it? I'm just going to google it right now?
Miny CDs many they're called a mini CD.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Okay, they're called a mini CD okay.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And yeah, this is a thing where Nintendo's like, hey,
you know what, CDs are cool, but not the ones
that hold all the stuff. We want the ones that
hold like half as much stuff, Like that's our thing.
And so they released the game Cube, which I'll admit
I bought. I definitely bought for a specific game, like
(33:06):
I want to say, maybe it was a Resident Evil title. Yeah, yeah,
I definitely bought a Dreamcast. I bought the Dreamcast. Oh
that was another CD bassist in the Dreamcast. I bought
that to play Code Veronica. And I'm really dating myself
right now. Geene, you know everything. Everything I'm talking about.
You're familiar with, correct, I know all the games. You
have very good tastes, So there's that. Yeah, thank you, Well,
I try. I have a very specific kind of taste.
(33:29):
There's only a few types of games that I really enjoy,
and I enjoy them heavily. I'll tell you. Oh, you
know what game I've probably played more of than any
other game is a Dead Cells. Are you Dead Cells playing? Yeah?
I love Dead Cells. Yeah, I've played Dead Cells like
more than I think any other game I've ever played.
That's another game that's actually very souls like. It's like
you have to be good at it to enjoy it.
(33:50):
That's a game that has the perfect mixture of you
can pick it up at any time and play it totally,
or you can sit and do a whole session for
hours and hours. But like if you can only play
for five minutes, like it's pretty enjoyable, or you want
to play for like two hours, it's enjoyable. Anyhow, Okay,
so Nintendo does this weird shit. And then when they
announced the Wii, which was like, I don't know what
(34:12):
year that was, two thousand, God, I don't know one,
I don't know. That doesn't sound right and it doesn't matter.
They announced the Wii, and I was like, this is
fucking stupid, Like nobody wants this shit, Like nobody wants
to like stand in their living room with these things
and like pretend they're golfing or whatever. And I will say,
you know, I don't rarely get things wrong. I'm usually
(34:32):
totally right about everything. But people fucking love the Wii.
Right like the we brought them back basically from this
like weird gray zone into like it became like the thing.
Am I crazy again for remembering it that way? No,
you're not, But this is most of the time. When
they started releasing the Nintendo DS, which is actually the well,
(34:52):
I think, the second highest selling video game like machine
of all time, just under the PlayStation two writ handheld,
they were like handheld, Yes, it was a handheld market
and the casual market of the we that really kind
of you know, relifted their fortunes basically for the rest
of the century. Okay, anyhow, But so the thing with
(35:21):
Nintendo is the switch. This is where I'm getting to
by the way, I know, I swear I had a point.
There's a long winded way of getting there. The switch
is like again, they announced it and I was like,
I don't know, like why, Like it's like underpowered. It's
like really underpowered. Like even when they announced it, it
was like, oh, it only does seven twenty right, that
(35:41):
was a big thing. It doesn't even do full HD.
It only does and correct me if I'm wrong, but
it is only seven to twenty max right on the
handheld device.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, it could go up to trinity on the screen
on the TV, which is decent. Right, that's definitely not
four K. It can't hit four K at all.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
So no, Well, there was a lot of controversy about
them even doing it like HD. I remember there was
I feel like there was some era where like they
wouldn't like the WI wasn't HD.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Oh yeah, we was not HHD. I think that only
went up to four I think they only went up
to like four eighty I and then We You was
the first. Yeah, actual, HD completely forgot about the WU
and let me say so, I just connected the mine
back up actually just the other day, dude.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So I found mine in a box like a month ago,
and I was like, I should put this, I should
hook this back up. So I bought the w U
because of Zombie U. Yeah, that's a great game, which
I thought looked like the dopest fucking game in the world.
And I have to say, to this day one of
the greatest, one of the greatest games ever made, particularly
(36:36):
on the WU because of the way they used the controller.
But I've actually played it. I've actually played on a
bunch of different like I have it on my PC,
and like it's like one of the best zombie games.
I feel like it has not gotten like the cred
that it deserves or the or the love that it deserves.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
We haven't given Zombie You as its flowers as a
culture because it's it's very good, Okay, We You kind
of was not successful, right, The WU was sort of a.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
It is the worst setting Colusstle of all time. Wow.
Really definitely the worst Nendo's ever made, for sure. So
the switch comes out from what I can tell, and
you tell me if I'm wrong, because I feel like
you probably know these numbers. It seems like it's like
the biggest selling like game console of all time or something.
Am I am? I crazier saying that it's number three
(37:20):
right now.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Okay, so they're gunning to replace the Nintendo DS, and
it seems that they're going to hit, right, it's still
a question of whether they're going to hit the one
hundred and fifty four million that the PlayStation two sold.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Oh, that's the biggest selling of all time. The PlayStation
two is the biggest selling of all time.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
And a big factor that is the fact that it
was the cheapest DVD player on the market at the time.
So if you wanted to watch movies at home, that's amazing.
Light as well just buy a PlayStation two because it's
way way because remember when DVD players were like three
hundred four hundred bucks for some reason.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yes, I do, I definitely do remember that. I mean
it's crazy, crazy to think, yeah, anyhow.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But yeah, the switches catch you up though. The switches
catch you up right, and it's still selling a bunch.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
It's telling a bunch and it's like and it's like
it's like Nintendo's that does this thing that I'm like
so sort of I'm so confused by it. I don't
understand why it works to a degree. Like they keep
going like, hey, do you like super Mario, Like remember
that Super Mario game you loved as a kid? Super
Mario two or whatever. They're like, we rebate it. It's
the same game, but it's like better and it's for
(38:20):
the new system, and people are like, oh my god,
they're fucking lining up for it. And that's the same
thing they do with Pokemon, Like all the time they're like, hey,
remember the Pokemon you loved as a teen, Now you're thirty,
and we remade it for the switch, and like it
just seems like it shouldn't work, like right, Like it's
like it's like the Marvel movies. Now people are kind
of like, eh, I'm okay, I'm like I've seen these all.
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Still playing Pokemon as a forty year old, you know, yes, yes,
But what's more insane is not just that you're playing it.
My guess is recently, pretty recently, you've played a game
that was like it's a remade version of a game
that you played already, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I mean that's a bunch of games. But the Pokemon
franchise in particular is like they're always like.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Pokemon would would just remake
remakes basically you know so.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Right, and you think it shouldn't work, and like it
always does, and I don't understand, like it, like, what
is it about Nintendo? What is it about them that
allows them to have these notions? Like do you have
any understanding of how it is they come up with
these like weird, left of center kind of ideas that
just somehow like really connect with with humans.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I think that they always focus on the concept of play.
So you look at Zelda, Tiers of the Kingdom and
other games are talking about, oh, how can I get
powered up? Or how how can I feel more powerful
or have more combos or moves and stuff like that, right, yeah,
that's every other game, whereas in Zelda, Zelda asks you,
(39:42):
see what happens when you put this square into the
square hole and see how how good that feels? You know, right,
it's basically that old TikTok you know. It's now, see
what happens when you put a triangle in a square hole.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Oh yeah, oh my god, that's a great that's a great.
Wait is that is that a vine? Actually? I think
it was.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I think it was a TikTok. It's it feels a
as old as of mine for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah, I know what I was talking about. That.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, it's definitely an old TikTok. But it's like very
simple concepts that are very easy to understand. You know,
build the sea saw, I see how the seesaw works.
So there's a primal instinct of they have this connection
on the concept of play that I think a lot
of other companies still are forgetting. And that's why they
focus so much on cartridges back then, because they figured
(40:25):
that the loading times of the CDs would get in
the way of the play, because nobody wants to just
sit around and wait until the game starts up.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Again. Turns out we do, yeah, but you know, we do.
We turns out we will pretty much spend like a
pretty good segment of our lives waiting for shit to load.
And it's only recently that we are now, Like only today, really,
I feel like, have we gotten to a point where
you can play a game pretty much the whole time
and never have it load, which is they's spent over
twenty years and we finally got to this point. You know,
it's pretty amazing, I will say.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
But well, Mario's creator also says, you know, he says
he never plays any other games, so there's kind of
like a tunnel vision there, like he only plays Mario.
He just doesn't play games, I guess, and he just
has ideas. You know, I don't know how much he
is really into making games these days, because he's over seventy.
He mostly oversaw like the creation of like well, the
(41:12):
Mario movie and also the theme park in Universal Studios too,
so he's.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Been doing you're talking about a shagear. The creative Mario Manzilda.
So I met him at CS when I was thirteen.
My dad took me to CS in Chicago and he
was there. Oh man, I met him and he signed
my badge and drew Mario on it. Okay, and some
I believe somewhere in my parents' house is that fucking badge.
(41:37):
And I'm I would really like to find it, and
I'd like to get up. I'm like, I like, I'm
not not to sell it or something, because I think
it would be fucking amazing, you know, like to frame
or whatever. We've talked about a lot of things. I
feel like I rambled us into some weird territory, but
I'd like to get from you a little bit of
presaging about the future of video games. I'll start with
(41:57):
some simple things, and then I'll take it into a
more complicated space. First off, are there any games that
are coming out in the near future that you are
particularly excited about and feel like are going to be
particularly interesting or good.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
This is gonna be an obvious answer, but I'm definitely
looking forward to the next pathestic game, Starfield.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Are you worried that it's going to be a No
Man's Sky situation? I am worried that the game will
be a lot simpler than I think it appears to be.
And that's partially because Fallout four came out and they
simplified so many things from Fallout three, which is why
I still look at Fallout three so much more favorably.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I agree, so they.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Had more systems going on, it was mu much more
of a role playing game. Fallout four really simplified, like
the decisions you make. They used to be very multifaceted,
and then Fallout four they became very binary. So they've
been trending that way for why for the last decade
or so. So I'm worried that Starfield is going to
(42:59):
be the culmination of that that's trimming down of every
role playing aspect. But they seem to be promising a lot.
But then the issue is that Todd Howard, the director
of but As the Studios, has been a little you know,
I respect him a lot, I love him, but he's
also a bit of a charlatan, you know, and he
just he just says things, you know, and it doesn't
come out to be exactly true. So I'm really really
(43:23):
fascinated interested to see whether there are actually a thousand
planets that the game promises that you can fly around
in and explore.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeh see. See. When I hear that, I'm like, it's
too many planets, Like I feel like one of the
problems with the game too lately for me is like
there's too much going on, there's so much to do
that I'm like, I don't know what to do here,
Like there's too much, too many options, you know. Yeah,
I will say you were talking about the new Zeuda
which is called Tiers of the Kingdom, right, is that
the subtitle. I haven't played it yet because I haven't
(43:51):
finished Breath of the Wild, which is a whole thing.
I mean, I just I never got into Bath of
the Wild. I would just go to Teers of the
Kingdom lodency first.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
It's fine, really, you think I can just jump into it.
About the narrative, the story barely matters. I think the
game like barely remembers Breath of the Wild happened. And
that's been kind of a meme right where like you know,
people are like, oh, where does Tears are king of
fit in the timeline? And people are like, I don't
know if it even fits on the timeland and Breath
of the Wild because it barely mentions the Breath of
the Wild. Right, So I think you can go to
Tiers in Kingdom feeling pretty good about yourself.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
So just cool, there's it's a much better good. Okay,
All right, Well you've I mean i've I mean I've
been watching people's videos, like not too much because I
don't want spoil it, but what it does, what it's
doing looks like so much fun and so creative and
like just like crazily creative. I'm like, god, this is
such a Nintendo move. It just feels like everybody's zigging
and they zag and where they zag is just like
(44:39):
a crazy, like super fun, playful thing. Like to your
point about play. By the way, we forgot that Microsoft
owns Minecraft, which or I forgot to mention it, but
that's a huge franchise for them. Like Minecraft is like
very popular, right, so I mean they have that it's
the best selling game of all time. Well, there you
have it. I mean, Microsoft, they're they're crushing it.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
But Minecraft and Zelda, Tears and the Kingdom have a
lot of in common because, like you know, there's so
much creative a right they're building so like like several
years ago, Minecraft was popular for you know, people was
able to actually create a working computer inside Minecraft, right,
And in Zelda they're actually starting to.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Do that now too, if they realize. If you look
up a subreddit.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Hiro engineering, Zelda players have already gone moved on to
fuse entanglement and quantum physic physics. No, come on, that's crazy.
That's already happening in Zelda there, you know, I.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Mean that's it was my first thought when I saw
what people were doing with it. I'm like, oh, they
kind of took the Minecraft concept. They did. I want
to get your take on Apple's on the Vision pro Like,
obviously there's like gaming implications. There's huge gaming implications with
like any company who's doing VR, give me, like your
take on that, and I guess maybe more broadly like
(45:49):
VR and if you think that's like actually where gaming
is headed.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
VR is interesting because people have been trying to have
it for a long time and trying to make it happen.
I keep going back to this VR conference I attended
in California several years ago, and this was around the
time when the Nintendo Switch and Breadth of the Wild
came out and Zelda Breath at the while, and it
was interesting to see all these VR creators and CEOs
(46:13):
of VR companies, and they explicitly referenced Zelda. They were
especially fascinated by the fact that Zelda and the Nintendo
Switch were selling one to one. Every copy of Zelda
would come with Nintendo Switch and vice versa, and they
were fascinated by that and they were jealous of it.
They were like, we're trying to sell VR hardware, but
(46:34):
we have no software. That is as compelling as a
Zelda to move actual hardware, to get consumers to spend
hundreds of dollars in hardware and an adjuster living space
around it. And they haven't found that, And I feel
like that's still where VR is. That said, I'm really
really excited for apples and pro. I'm a huge Apple fan.
(46:57):
I have so many different Apple products and I've just
really leaned into the wall garden aspect of Apple. I'm
enjoying it, and if I could afford it, I would
totally get get a vision pro. After that press conference
happened and with Apple, I was walking around to Washington
Post newsdroop asking various people of knowledge or of management,
(47:18):
so what is her Apple vision pro strategy? Because we're
getting some for the office right right?
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Are you are you? Actually? Nobody said anything. I think
you could make it happen. I mean you could definitely,
like someone's getting it for review there right, Like yeah,
for sure, for hear that.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And then we have like a bunch of VR headsets
around because like you know, the Washington Puss is played
with VR a ar like storytelling.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I think we kind of gave up it for a while,
but you know, well that's because it was a gimmick
and everybody was kind of like it's.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Exactly So, I mean, I'm sure people are watching the
vision pro and wondering like, like, do we need Apple
to have to make VR a thing?
Speaker 1 (47:49):
I don't know, but I think I think your point
is actually really well taken. It's how you know, I've
thought about a lot of this, having tried a ton
of these things. I mean, I have lots of issues
with their concept of how to do it, but like
my big one is actually what you said, which is like,
what's the thing, What's the app or the game or
the experience that's so compelling that you will put this
thing on and like tune out the world and go
(48:12):
like totally immersive into it. And like, I just think
nobody has established like I've played some very compelling and
very immersive stuff, Like I think some of the Star
Wars stuff they did, for like with the Quest was
really really cool, and I told you, I'm like, oh,
this is awesome, Like you just check it out. It's
super fun. But like to invest like a signific amount
of time or energy into that, like, well, first off,
(48:32):
VR makes me nauseous, So like I have to take
dramamine to use it. It makes me sick.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
So there's also like that hurdles. Like when I played
Half Life Alex on the Steam VR, incredible game. I've
never experienced anyone like it, Like I would probably think
that that's probably the closest name to an actual killer app,
where like, anyone interested in vide games you should absolutely
try that out. But it was so realistic that I
was nauseous for about two hours.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
You know. Oh wow, Like that's interesting because I bought
that game with the intention because obviously it's Half Life.
I bought that game with the intention of, like, I'm
going to play this. I just need to like get
the headset and like hook it up and whatever. And
I've never I've kind of just been like, well, I'm
not going to get into that, and so I've avoided
it completely. But I wouldn't just buy one just for it.
And that's the problem, right right exactly, That's that is
(49:19):
the problem. In a nutshell. Okay, Gene, I got to
let you go. Unfortunately, this is super fun. You definitely
got to come back. And frankly, we can talk about
it probably a lot of stuff, but the gaming stuff
is so interesting to hear somebody with like your history
and experience, it's just like really fun to get your
perspective on it. So thank you so much for doing this,
and you know, come back soon.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, thanks for having me and I'd love to be
back soon.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Thanks so much. Well, Gene's great. I love Gene. I
got to say, and I don't know that I've ever
had in recent memory of conversation that was quite that
nerdy and in the weeds frankly about the weird video
games that I that I like. I do feel extremely
(50:01):
good because Jeane said that I had good taste in
video games, and I think coming from him, that's a
massive compliment. So that gives from my ego that's a
great boost, very exciting stuff. Anyhow, that is our show
for this week. We will be back next week with
more what Future, and as always, I wish you and
your family the very best.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.