March 18, 2025 • 21 mins
Addiction isn’t just about substances—it’s about the ways we cope with pain, stress, and unmet needs. In this episode, Chip Dodd and Leanne unpack how behaviors like emotional eating, over-exercising, workaholism, and social media addiction follow the same addictive patterns as substances. They explore the difference between coping mechanisms that help us heal versus those that keep us stuck, and how the brain wires itself for addiction. If you’ve ever felt caught in a cycle of numbing or self-sabotage, this episode will help you understand why—and what you can do about it.
Visit Chip's website at: ChipDodd.com
You can order your copy of Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart: A Call To Full Living HERE.
Listen to the Living With Heart Podcast HERE.
HOST: Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
Follow Leanne on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leanneellington/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Not here to preach. Gonna keep it clean and talk
to me and recall where faith means sparse nature and
get in touch with your creator with a bacon, love
and jew.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
She even speaks Hebrew. What's that? Gonza do? What's that?
Well sabosation? You should talking transformation?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Donzato?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hey, it's Leanne here and welcome to a special series
on What's God Got to Do with It? And selfishly,
I wanted to bring this series to you. It originally
was created for Outweigh, but it is so apparent and
relevant to the journeys that we talked about over here
on What's God Got to Do with It? Where I
invited my dear friend doctor Chip Dodd, alongside a four
(01:05):
part mini series talking about why we numb and the
real root of coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You've heard them before on the God Pod.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
His episode will be linked in every episode of this series.
But I wanted to bring this mini series over to
you here on What's God Got to Do with It?
So tune on in and enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Hello Chip, Hi, good see you.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I love you brought your good energy again.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Oh, thank you, thank you so much. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sonia even commented, she said she's heard you, and she
said she just has great energy.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I love her energy.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So thank you so sch much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, I love yours, and I'm so grateful for you
to be here because this you know, the topic of
this series is about why we numb and coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But really, you know, so many people.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Identify as an addict or they don't even know that
they're compulsive behaviors of weighing themselves, the body IMOGIP session,
the food obsession really takes over their brain and there's
so much shame with it. And so there's no one
better than you to be here for this series. So
just to brag on Chip for just a second. He
has been in the recovery world for decades and he
developed his own recovery system called the Spiritual Roots System,
(02:12):
and he took it into the recovery world and then
ran a treatment center for twenty two years called the
Center of Professional Excellence. And now still in twenty twenty five,
he's here spreading the love, sharing his truth and the
truth about what addiction is and isn't and I mean
so much more than that. So you've probably know him
best from his book The Voice of the Heart, and
(02:33):
we're going to share all of the ways that you
can find him. But he was also on What's God
Got to Do with It? So we'll link that in
the show notes. But specifically, we are going to be
here for the next few weeks talking about why we
numb the real root of coping mechanisms, and this is
part one of this series.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Today we're going to talk about what is addiction really
okay and.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
The coping mechanisms that become a trap because a lot
of us, I know, I'm talking to women all the
time that they think that they identify as an addict,
or they feel like something has this addictive pull over them,
but they don't necessarily know what it is. So we're
going to break it down for you what it looks
like on a logic and reason level, on a behavioral level,
on a neuroscientific level.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But first let's just dive on in so addiction. Obviously
we're talking about this before. It's not just about the
substance the thing.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
It's about how we cope or how we use the thing,
or who we're being in the face of the fin
whether it's food, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Social media, weight, obsession.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Whatever it is, right, and so how behaviors like emotional
eating and over exercising and workaholism and even social media
addiction follow those same patterns.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So can we talk about what is addiction?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
The simplest definition that I have for addiction is it
ends up being an intolerance for vulnerability, and intolerance for vulnerability.
Vulnerability means openness to being affected, to being wounded, to
being seen exposed, to being needy, all all the things
(04:00):
that sort of like our mythology of society says, you've
got to be stronger than how you're made. And so
really and truly addiction is an attempt to escape how
we're actually created, to run away from how we're made.
There's a saying that the suppression of expression equals depression.
(04:22):
And I don't mean the clinical depression. I'm talking about
depressing how we're created. That we actually are told somewhere
along in our lives that what you're bringing to this
need for connection is not what we're looking for. So
we attempt to disconnect from ourselves. And so almost every
person who's addicted, whether they realize it or not. Grew
(04:44):
up in an environment where they were the heart of
who they are, feedings, needs, desire, longings, and hope was oppressed,
pushed away, and then that person becomes obsessed with the
need to belong and matter at the same time without
being who I'm really made to be as an expressive person.
(05:05):
So the need to belong and matter is still there,
but I can't do it like I'm creating, so I
practice not being myself. So that's what oppression turns to obsession,
obsession with control, and then that turns into possession. And
so as crazy it sounds at first, the thinking takes
(05:26):
over the frontal lobe, the executive functioning takes over for
the heart, so it becomes a mind over heart problem
rather than a heart actually overmind. So recovery is about
returning to how we're created.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Wow, and so beautifully put that, it's an escape from
who we are. We never got we never felt safe
to be all of who we are. It is somewhere
along the line we picked up a storyline or a
belief that if I just could go control that obsess
over that, then that'll fill this need. And it wasn't conscious.
We did consciously know we were doing it. But it's
so powerful to hear that because so often addiction and
(06:04):
compulsion is categorizes just this physiological thing, and that's the
cause and effect, you know, cascade.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
But really, what you're.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Saying I so agree with and what I'm finding with
you know, all of the women that come through my program,
is that it starts at the mental, emotional, spiritual side
of it. And when you address that, then you might
also need to make some altercations.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
In the physical realm, right absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
But that's when everything is possible.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So I soon and I would even say it even starts,
if we wanted to make a pinpoint start. It actually
starts with this idea that we can't accept ourselves emotionally.
It's not our faults of their problem. It's not even
our actions that are their problem. It's actually that somehow
or another, it's not okay the way I actually feel.
And that's what the Voice of the Heart book is
about our core feelings. So we end up rejecting literally
(06:53):
the core feelings of how we're created, which actually open
up the door to needs and desire and longings.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
So guess what.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Once we're growing up in an oppressive place, oppressing the heart.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
We don't get to.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Practice learning how to live, We don't get to practice
figuring things out. We don't get the practice making mistakes.
And almost every bit of learning in life is about practice,
which is vulnerability being seen. So it's almost like we
have to have the answers before we arrive at the problem.
We have to have the answers before we get the questions.
And that becomes the external validation versus internal risking on
(07:29):
an external world. You know.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So we add ourselves and you just defined self rejection
at its core, that's where it starts. That's where you know,
it festers outward and then we go as humans. I've
done it too, and now I'm learning. Is that like
you can't solve an emotional problem with logic and reason?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Amen, you know, keep going, keeps to say more, that's it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yes, it is, absolutely, and that's what we do. So
coming back to you know, I love how you set
the stage for this, where this starts, where the problem lives,
where it starts, what a real problem is and what
it isn't. So when we're talking about now the difference
between addiction and coping mechanisms, because a lot of people
might not say, well, yes, I'm realizing that I'm coping
with something, whether they don't know what it is, with food,
(08:12):
you know, numbing out on social media, Netflix, whatever, versus.
I talk to a lot of women who are on
the other camp where they're like, no, leanne, I am
an addict, right, and they swear they're an addict to
sugar specifically.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So you know, there's some coping.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Mechanisms that can actually help us heal and actually comfort
right and do good versus others that keep us stuck
and create a toxic cycle. So can you share a
bit about the distinction between not just addiction and coping mechanisms,
but strategies that heal and in those.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, you know interesting. A coping mechanism can be part
of an addiction. A coping mechanism can be part of
an addiction, and an addiction is also a form of
coping if you're attempting to escape one thing, So coping
(09:05):
an addiction becomes synonyms if you're attempting to use your
actions to escape having to do one thing you're trying
to get away from feeling. Because even of books about
stress management, coping strategies for stress, even those things can
be used to try to escape having to be human,
(09:26):
having to be in need, having to feel so recovery,
whether it's the use of coping or addiction itself. See,
addiction is not a badness, it's not an evil. It's
an attempt to have normal needs met without having to
be in need. And coping strategies are a way to
(09:46):
make sure that we put ourselves in positions so that
we have a place to go where who we are
and how we live, how who we really are is received.
So the coping strategies need to be actions we take
to stick around people and be with people who can
receive us as God made us as feeling creatures who
(10:06):
have needs, desire, longings, and hope. And we can find
the places to struggle with others who are doing the
same versus struggling and with those who judge us for
being human.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Wow, So coping.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Strategies need to be getting around people who have the
same strengths we have of being human so we're able
to tolerate an inhuman world.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And if you're trying to be safe in who we are,
with this being safe, it's one thing to I identify
that I'm not safe and like have an idea of like, oh,
what would be safe, but to be in practice living
out being a human being, all of who you are
around people where you're safe.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
That is everything, And.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The safety is actually a place where you can practice
being yourself and then go out into a world that
may not receive it, but you can still practice being
yourself in that world and then come back and resustain. See,
because we're made for relationship, and even neuroscience, well than
ever before, finally has awakened to what we've known forever,
(11:06):
that you come out of the woom looking for who's
looking for you, That we're created to find fulfillment relationship,
and people who are addicted are coping to hide their
feelings all right, or trying to get relationship without having
to be in need. So we need to be in
the places where we can be ourselves so we can
cope with the world that isn't very interested in who
(11:28):
we are. It doesn't mean that you try to hide
from the world. You have the strength to go live it.
And how do we have the strength to go live
in the world.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We do that through.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Having relationships that are we're security.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
And we belong in matter and it comes back to
what you literally started with with just this concept of
vulnerability where it's like, where does that even fit into addiction?
Might some people be thinking, but you just said it.
It's this idea of not a feeling like we can't
go be in need. It's what's causing the addiction, and
that's a vulnerable place to be, to be like, no,
I need connection and there's.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
A world of truth efficiency. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It's not a desire, it's a require. And so obviously
my you know, my mind is please.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's not a desire, it is it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Is a required.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
And I love that you brought up the geeky neuroscience
stuff because one of the things I'm talking about all
the time is the anterior singular cortex.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's my favorite part of the brain.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It's the social brain, and it's bigger in females and
more active. And that's where I to oversimplify it, what
I teach my clients is that that is where our
addiction and compulsion lives, because it's not what's happening is
we're being over fed by dopamine. Right, these hits of
dopamine that again, now we know what that dopamine is
a response to of not of being needed but not
feeling comfortable to go be air quotes needy right or
(12:40):
receive that support and that connection that we need, not
just desire, but require. But so what's happening is we're
going to be describing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Even though that need to get hits of dopamine to
get relief hits to relieve ourself anxiety exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
But that what happens is that initial hunger what we're
really needing, which is oxytocin.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That connection, we are feeding dopamine. So therefore our brain
is being over fed and undernourished, and it's a cycle cycles.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And I want your audience to hear that it's not
either or. We're made to experience dopamine because we're made
to have relief from fight flight, freeze and a piece. Okay,
but the thing that dopamine won't answer that both and
and part. We're craving dopamine from a standpoint of relief,
but we're even more craving oxytocin for life giving experience.
(13:30):
So dopamine relieves oxytocin grants us a full life. One's
a life giving chemical, one's a life relieving chemical. Yes,
So and oxytocin occurs, but we can bring how we're
made and who we're made to be to people who
can receive that, and also people can come get the
same thing from us.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Absolutely, so recovery ultimately.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
No matter what what're you're recovering from, recovery Ultimately it's
two things.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
One, I admit.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
That I don't have control of life, and the more
I try to control it, my life becomes unmanageable. And
then number two, I become somebody others can come to
to receive oxytocin, and I have people to go to
to get oxytocin.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
In no worries.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Not only am I safe, but I'm cared about and
that strengthens me to go risk being myself in a
world that's not very interested in me, or a world
that is coping with sickness or addicted and Leanne, you
and I both know that, and so many people talk
what the pandemic really is. We talked about the pandemic
(14:33):
was COVID, and that became a word that everybody knew suddenly.
But the real pandemic in our society is addiction. Because
there are over two hundred million plus people who carry
addiction and addiction ultimately is about running from feelings. So
guess what if you deal with feelings in a healthy way,
(14:55):
you get recovery from that which would silence you, numb you,
knock you out, anesthetize you, or literally control your life
to the standpoint that even when you walk and outside
your own home, you're obsessed with the appearance of.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
What people think about what you look like.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And the only power hits are, the only sense of
security you have is somebody affirming your outsides, but nobody
really being interested in your insides.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Absolutely and insights healss even just a stack on that,
because what you said is just so beautiful, I believe
are The first thing is.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Like, we have to become interested in our insights.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yes you know what I mean, and they run away from.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, absolutely, and learn how to be emotionally available to ourselves.
And a lot of times that means going and getting
support and being in need. Right, But we have to
learn to wake that ticker up because a lot of women,
specifically that I work with, and I know it's men too,
we're desensitized.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
We don't even know when those alarm bells are going
off anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That is so true, and there really is a thing
called denial, and denial does not.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Mean you're lying. Denial means you really don't see I
mean you're blind. I was talking to a woman this
morning and she went to her first.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Adult children of Alcoholics meetings, and she wasn't raised in
an alcoholic home, but it's for dysfunctional families. A dysfunctional
family is a feeling that doesn't deal with feelings in
a healthy way period. And she said that she shared
a little bit, and then she said that all these
other people shared, and she.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Said, I just kept thinking, me too, me too, And
she said, I've.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Never met these people my whole life, and I felt
like it was it was okay.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
But and that's how you that's how.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
You know you're getting into recovery when you go to
a meeting and you look around and you're.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Not going that's not me, that's not me. You're actually going,
this is me too. Your home now at very quickly.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
But all of us are born to have a home,
and then if you don't have a home, you still
look for one. Okay, what is a home? A home
is a sanctuary, and it's a place where the front
porch light's always on, the door's always unlocked and the
tape able set ready for your return, and there's someone
(17:03):
there who says, oh, no, no, no, I'm doing the cooking,
the cleaning. I'm taking care of you until you can
take care of you. And so we all need that
place where we can bring our neediness. And then once
addiction kicks in, we don't believe a place like that
exists or not for me, because.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
I'm not worth it. And the thing is, you're born
worth it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And if you don't know you're worth it, then it's
not that it went away, it's that it got buried
by the people who you needed.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
To be home with.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So almost all addiction and all of our coping sicker
coping skills are all about from I hate to say
it this way, but what happened to the feelings in
your growing up experience. If you come from a place
of feeling, you're almost certainly not going to wind up
in a position of position called addiction.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And I'll just finish by saying this because I have
to plug your voice of the herdbook for just a moment.
But I think a lot of people think they have
to go dig up all of the skeletons.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's the braveyard from the past. And what I talk
about is like you can get very yes you want
to become.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Aware of it, but getting out very right now, solution
focused and almost start like adulting yourself through these feelings
that never got reconciled. And so if you're looking for
a tool to do that, the Voice of the Heart
is just it's literally a guide of how to feel
and to it'll you'll be able to recognize where you've
fit in the spectrum of almost you know, the suppressing
of it versus you know how to health use a
(18:30):
healthy coping mechanism to experience your feels before.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
We dive off. Can how can people find you? Stock?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You find out all okay chipdod dot com and you'll
you'll get into chip DoD resources, free resources, recommendations, and
it takes you also to the Living with Heart podcast
Living with Heart from Birth to Death, and then of
course it takes you to eight different books that I've written.
(18:57):
In fact, the Voice of the Heart is a seminar work.
It was written a long time ago. It was the
first emotions book actually written in terms if we look
at in terms of bibliophy, it's crazy. I didn't know
that I was writing the first emotions book you know now.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Like so widely and popularity used by all therapists.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yes, that's what we found everywhere.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Yeah, yes, and you know what it came out. It
came out to the sounds of crickets.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And now it's become like almost like it was a
little far ahead. Yeah, And actually all it did was
named something ancient. We're created as creatures who were made
for relationship, and that heart actually really is created to
take precedence over our thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Absolutely, And we did a whole episode all about the
voice of the heart, so I will link that in
the show notes from the Godpod. But don't worry, We're
not done because we're going to be back next week
with episode two of this series where we're going to
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. So we got into it
a bit today, but we're going to get to go
narrow and deeper, so we will see you next time.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
We'll be back with more what's God got to do
with it?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story. Or maybe what questions you have, like where
do you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom
in your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(20:28):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback, and you
can do that instantly.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So What's God Got to Do with It?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Dot com? You'll find all the ways to do that.
And if you like this podcast and want to hear more,
go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen
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Got to Do with It? New episodes drop every single Tuesday,
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(20:58):
God Got to Do With It is an iHeartRadio podcast
on the Amy Brown Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington, executive produced
by
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by Houston Tilley, and
original music written by Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam
Stark
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Not here to preach. Gonna keep it clean and talk
to me and recall where faith means sparse nature and
get in touch with your creator with a bacon, love
and jew.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
She even speaks Hebrew. What's that? Gonza do? What's that?
Well sabosation? You should talking transformation?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Donzato?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hey, it's Leanne here and welcome to a special series
on What's God Got to Do with It? And selfishly,
I wanted to bring this series to you. It originally
was created for Outweigh, but it is so apparent and
relevant to the journeys that we talked about over here
on What's God Got to Do with It? Where I
invited my dear friend doctor Chip Dodd, alongside a four
(01:05):
part mini series talking about why we numb and the
real root of coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You've heard them before on the God Pod.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
His episode will be linked in every episode of this series.
But I wanted to bring this mini series over to
you here on What's God Got to Do with It?
So tune on in and enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Hello Chip, Hi, good see you.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I love you brought your good energy again.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Oh, thank you, thank you so much. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sonia even commented, she said she's heard you, and she
said she just has great energy.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I love her energy.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So thank you so sch much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, I love yours, and I'm so grateful for you
to be here because this you know, the topic of
this series is about why we numb and coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But really, you know, so many people.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Identify as an addict or they don't even know that
they're compulsive behaviors of weighing themselves, the body IMOGIP session,
the food obsession really takes over their brain and there's
so much shame with it. And so there's no one
better than you to be here for this series. So
just to brag on Chip for just a second. He
has been in the recovery world for decades and he
developed his own recovery system called the Spiritual Roots System,
(02:12):
and he took it into the recovery world and then
ran a treatment center for twenty two years called the
Center of Professional Excellence. And now still in twenty twenty five,
he's here spreading the love, sharing his truth and the
truth about what addiction is and isn't and I mean
so much more than that. So you've probably know him
best from his book The Voice of the Heart, and
(02:33):
we're going to share all of the ways that you
can find him. But he was also on What's God
Got to Do with It? So we'll link that in
the show notes. But specifically, we are going to be
here for the next few weeks talking about why we
numb the real root of coping mechanisms, and this is
part one of this series.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Today we're going to talk about what is addiction really
okay and.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
The coping mechanisms that become a trap because a lot
of us, I know, I'm talking to women all the
time that they think that they identify as an addict,
or they feel like something has this addictive pull over them,
but they don't necessarily know what it is. So we're
going to break it down for you what it looks
like on a logic and reason level, on a behavioral level,
on a neuroscientific level.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But first let's just dive on in so addiction. Obviously
we're talking about this before. It's not just about the
substance the thing.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
It's about how we cope or how we use the thing,
or who we're being in the face of the fin
whether it's food, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Social media, weight, obsession.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Whatever it is, right, and so how behaviors like emotional
eating and over exercising and workaholism and even social media
addiction follow those same patterns.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So can we talk about what is addiction?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
The simplest definition that I have for addiction is it
ends up being an intolerance for vulnerability, and intolerance for vulnerability.
Vulnerability means openness to being affected, to being wounded, to
being seen exposed, to being needy, all all the things
(04:00):
that sort of like our mythology of society says, you've
got to be stronger than how you're made. And so
really and truly addiction is an attempt to escape how
we're actually created, to run away from how we're made.
There's a saying that the suppression of expression equals depression.
(04:22):
And I don't mean the clinical depression. I'm talking about
depressing how we're created. That we actually are told somewhere
along in our lives that what you're bringing to this
need for connection is not what we're looking for. So
we attempt to disconnect from ourselves. And so almost every
person who's addicted, whether they realize it or not. Grew
(04:44):
up in an environment where they were the heart of
who they are, feedings, needs, desire, longings, and hope was oppressed,
pushed away, and then that person becomes obsessed with the
need to belong and matter at the same time without
being who I'm really made to be as an expressive person.
(05:05):
So the need to belong and matter is still there,
but I can't do it like I'm creating, so I
practice not being myself. So that's what oppression turns to obsession,
obsession with control, and then that turns into possession. And
so as crazy it sounds at first, the thinking takes
(05:26):
over the frontal lobe, the executive functioning takes over for
the heart, so it becomes a mind over heart problem
rather than a heart actually overmind. So recovery is about
returning to how we're created.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Wow, and so beautifully put that, it's an escape from
who we are. We never got we never felt safe
to be all of who we are. It is somewhere
along the line we picked up a storyline or a
belief that if I just could go control that obsess
over that, then that'll fill this need. And it wasn't conscious.
We did consciously know we were doing it. But it's
so powerful to hear that because so often addiction and
(06:04):
compulsion is categorizes just this physiological thing, and that's the
cause and effect, you know, cascade.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
But really, what you're.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Saying I so agree with and what I'm finding with
you know, all of the women that come through my program,
is that it starts at the mental, emotional, spiritual side
of it. And when you address that, then you might
also need to make some altercations.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
In the physical realm, right absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
But that's when everything is possible.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So I soon and I would even say it even starts,
if we wanted to make a pinpoint start. It actually
starts with this idea that we can't accept ourselves emotionally.
It's not our faults of their problem. It's not even
our actions that are their problem. It's actually that somehow
or another, it's not okay the way I actually feel.
And that's what the Voice of the Heart book is
about our core feelings. So we end up rejecting literally
(06:53):
the core feelings of how we're created, which actually open
up the door to needs and desire and longings.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
So guess what.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Once we're growing up in an oppressive place, oppressing the heart.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
We don't get to.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Practice learning how to live, We don't get to practice
figuring things out. We don't get the practice making mistakes.
And almost every bit of learning in life is about practice,
which is vulnerability being seen. So it's almost like we
have to have the answers before we arrive at the problem.
We have to have the answers before we get the questions.
And that becomes the external validation versus internal risking on
(07:29):
an external world. You know.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So we add ourselves and you just defined self rejection
at its core, that's where it starts. That's where you know,
it festers outward and then we go as humans. I've
done it too, and now I'm learning. Is that like
you can't solve an emotional problem with logic and reason?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Amen, you know, keep going, keeps to say more, that's it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yes, it is, absolutely, and that's what we do. So
coming back to you know, I love how you set
the stage for this, where this starts, where the problem lives,
where it starts, what a real problem is and what
it isn't. So when we're talking about now the difference
between addiction and coping mechanisms, because a lot of people
might not say, well, yes, I'm realizing that I'm coping
with something, whether they don't know what it is, with food,
(08:12):
you know, numbing out on social media, Netflix, whatever, versus.
I talk to a lot of women who are on
the other camp where they're like, no, leanne, I am
an addict, right, and they swear they're an addict to
sugar specifically.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So you know, there's some coping.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Mechanisms that can actually help us heal and actually comfort
right and do good versus others that keep us stuck
and create a toxic cycle. So can you share a
bit about the distinction between not just addiction and coping mechanisms,
but strategies that heal and in those.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, you know interesting. A coping mechanism can be part
of an addiction. A coping mechanism can be part of
an addiction, and an addiction is also a form of
coping if you're attempting to escape one thing, So coping
(09:05):
an addiction becomes synonyms if you're attempting to use your
actions to escape having to do one thing you're trying
to get away from feeling. Because even of books about
stress management, coping strategies for stress, even those things can
be used to try to escape having to be human,
(09:26):
having to be in need, having to feel so recovery,
whether it's the use of coping or addiction itself. See,
addiction is not a badness, it's not an evil. It's
an attempt to have normal needs met without having to
be in need. And coping strategies are a way to
(09:46):
make sure that we put ourselves in positions so that
we have a place to go where who we are
and how we live, how who we really are is received.
So the coping strategies need to be actions we take
to stick around people and be with people who can
receive us as God made us as feeling creatures who
(10:06):
have needs, desire, longings, and hope. And we can find
the places to struggle with others who are doing the
same versus struggling and with those who judge us for
being human.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Wow, So coping.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Strategies need to be getting around people who have the
same strengths we have of being human so we're able
to tolerate an inhuman world.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And if you're trying to be safe in who we are,
with this being safe, it's one thing to I identify
that I'm not safe and like have an idea of like, oh,
what would be safe, but to be in practice living
out being a human being, all of who you are
around people where you're safe.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
That is everything, And.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The safety is actually a place where you can practice
being yourself and then go out into a world that
may not receive it, but you can still practice being
yourself in that world and then come back and resustain. See,
because we're made for relationship, and even neuroscience, well than
ever before, finally has awakened to what we've known forever,
(11:06):
that you come out of the woom looking for who's
looking for you, That we're created to find fulfillment relationship,
and people who are addicted are coping to hide their
feelings all right, or trying to get relationship without having
to be in need. So we need to be in
the places where we can be ourselves so we can
cope with the world that isn't very interested in who
(11:28):
we are. It doesn't mean that you try to hide
from the world. You have the strength to go live it.
And how do we have the strength to go live
in the world.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We do that through.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Having relationships that are we're security.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
And we belong in matter and it comes back to
what you literally started with with just this concept of
vulnerability where it's like, where does that even fit into addiction?
Might some people be thinking, but you just said it.
It's this idea of not a feeling like we can't
go be in need. It's what's causing the addiction, and
that's a vulnerable place to be, to be like, no,
I need connection and there's.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
A world of truth efficiency. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It's not a desire, it's a require. And so obviously
my you know, my mind is please.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's not a desire, it is it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Is a required.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
And I love that you brought up the geeky neuroscience
stuff because one of the things I'm talking about all
the time is the anterior singular cortex.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's my favorite part of the brain.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It's the social brain, and it's bigger in females and
more active. And that's where I to oversimplify it, what
I teach my clients is that that is where our
addiction and compulsion lives, because it's not what's happening is
we're being over fed by dopamine. Right, these hits of
dopamine that again, now we know what that dopamine is
a response to of not of being needed but not
feeling comfortable to go be air quotes needy right or
(12:40):
receive that support and that connection that we need, not
just desire, but require. But so what's happening is we're
going to be describing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Even though that need to get hits of dopamine to
get relief hits to relieve ourself anxiety exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
But that what happens is that initial hunger what we're
really needing, which is oxytocin.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That connection, we are feeding dopamine. So therefore our brain
is being over fed and undernourished, and it's a cycle cycles.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And I want your audience to hear that it's not
either or. We're made to experience dopamine because we're made
to have relief from fight flight, freeze and a piece. Okay,
but the thing that dopamine won't answer that both and
and part. We're craving dopamine from a standpoint of relief,
but we're even more craving oxytocin for life giving experience.
(13:30):
So dopamine relieves oxytocin grants us a full life. One's
a life giving chemical, one's a life relieving chemical. Yes,
So and oxytocin occurs, but we can bring how we're
made and who we're made to be to people who
can receive that, and also people can come get the
same thing from us.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Absolutely, so recovery ultimately.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
No matter what what're you're recovering from, recovery Ultimately it's
two things.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
One, I admit.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
That I don't have control of life, and the more
I try to control it, my life becomes unmanageable. And
then number two, I become somebody others can come to
to receive oxytocin, and I have people to go to
to get oxytocin.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
In no worries.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Not only am I safe, but I'm cared about and
that strengthens me to go risk being myself in a
world that's not very interested in me, or a world
that is coping with sickness or addicted and Leanne, you
and I both know that, and so many people talk
what the pandemic really is. We talked about the pandemic
(14:33):
was COVID, and that became a word that everybody knew suddenly.
But the real pandemic in our society is addiction. Because
there are over two hundred million plus people who carry
addiction and addiction ultimately is about running from feelings. So
guess what if you deal with feelings in a healthy way,
(14:55):
you get recovery from that which would silence you, numb you,
knock you out, anesthetize you, or literally control your life
to the standpoint that even when you walk and outside
your own home, you're obsessed with the appearance of.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
What people think about what you look like.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And the only power hits are, the only sense of
security you have is somebody affirming your outsides, but nobody
really being interested in your insides.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Absolutely and insights healss even just a stack on that,
because what you said is just so beautiful, I believe
are The first thing is.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Like, we have to become interested in our insights.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yes you know what I mean, and they run away from.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, absolutely, and learn how to be emotionally available to ourselves.
And a lot of times that means going and getting
support and being in need. Right, But we have to
learn to wake that ticker up because a lot of women,
specifically that I work with, and I know it's men too,
we're desensitized.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
We don't even know when those alarm bells are going
off anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That is so true, and there really is a thing
called denial, and denial does not.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Mean you're lying. Denial means you really don't see I
mean you're blind. I was talking to a woman this
morning and she went to her first.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Adult children of Alcoholics meetings, and she wasn't raised in
an alcoholic home, but it's for dysfunctional families. A dysfunctional
family is a feeling that doesn't deal with feelings in
a healthy way period. And she said that she shared
a little bit, and then she said that all these
other people shared, and she.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Said, I just kept thinking, me too, me too, And
she said, I've.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Never met these people my whole life, and I felt
like it was it was okay.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
But and that's how you that's how.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
You know you're getting into recovery when you go to
a meeting and you look around and you're.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Not going that's not me, that's not me. You're actually going,
this is me too. Your home now at very quickly.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
But all of us are born to have a home,
and then if you don't have a home, you still
look for one. Okay, what is a home? A home
is a sanctuary, and it's a place where the front
porch light's always on, the door's always unlocked and the
tape able set ready for your return, and there's someone
(17:03):
there who says, oh, no, no, no, I'm doing the cooking,
the cleaning. I'm taking care of you until you can
take care of you. And so we all need that
place where we can bring our neediness. And then once
addiction kicks in, we don't believe a place like that
exists or not for me, because.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
I'm not worth it. And the thing is, you're born
worth it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And if you don't know you're worth it, then it's
not that it went away, it's that it got buried
by the people who you needed.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
To be home with.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So almost all addiction and all of our coping sicker
coping skills are all about from I hate to say
it this way, but what happened to the feelings in
your growing up experience. If you come from a place
of feeling, you're almost certainly not going to wind up
in a position of position called addiction.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And I'll just finish by saying this because I have
to plug your voice of the herdbook for just a moment.
But I think a lot of people think they have
to go dig up all of the skeletons.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's the braveyard from the past. And what I talk
about is like you can get very yes you want
to become.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Aware of it, but getting out very right now, solution
focused and almost start like adulting yourself through these feelings
that never got reconciled. And so if you're looking for
a tool to do that, the Voice of the Heart
is just it's literally a guide of how to feel
and to it'll you'll be able to recognize where you've
fit in the spectrum of almost you know, the suppressing
of it versus you know how to health use a
(18:30):
healthy coping mechanism to experience your feels before.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
We dive off. Can how can people find you? Stock?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You find out all okay chipdod dot com and you'll
you'll get into chip DoD resources, free resources, recommendations, and
it takes you also to the Living with Heart podcast
Living with Heart from Birth to Death, and then of
course it takes you to eight different books that I've written.
(18:57):
In fact, the Voice of the Heart is a seminar work.
It was written a long time ago. It was the
first emotions book actually written in terms if we look
at in terms of bibliophy, it's crazy. I didn't know
that I was writing the first emotions book you know now.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Like so widely and popularity used by all therapists.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yes, that's what we found everywhere.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Yeah, yes, and you know what it came out. It
came out to the sounds of crickets.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And now it's become like almost like it was a
little far ahead. Yeah, And actually all it did was
named something ancient. We're created as creatures who were made
for relationship, and that heart actually really is created to
take precedence over our thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Absolutely, And we did a whole episode all about the
voice of the heart, so I will link that in
the show notes from the Godpod. But don't worry, We're
not done because we're going to be back next week
with episode two of this series where we're going to
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. So we got into it
a bit today, but we're going to get to go
narrow and deeper, so we will see you next time.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
We'll be back with more what's God got to do
with it?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story. Or maybe what questions you have, like where
do you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom
in your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(20:28):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback, and you
can do that instantly.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So What's God Got to Do with It?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Dot com? You'll find all the ways to do that.
And if you like this podcast and want to hear more,
go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen
to podcasts to get your weekly dose of What's God
Got to Do with It? New episodes drop every single Tuesday,
and while you're there, be sure to rate and review
to show your support. It really means so much. What's
(20:58):
God Got to Do With It is an iHeartRadio podcast
on the Amy Brown Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington, executive produced
by
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by Houston Tilley, and
original music written by Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam
Stark
Host
Leanne Ellington
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