September 30, 2021 • 50 mins
In this episode we get the inside story of Alison Levine's climb from the highest peaks to the top of the speaking world. Alison is a polar explorer and mountaineer who has completed the Adventure Grand Slam which entailed climbing the seven summits and skiing both Poles. Alison is one of the country’s top 10 most sought after corporate speakers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. Today, We're
(00:24):
so excited to welcome to the show. One of the
most inspiring women we've had the chance to speak with,
Alison Levine, is a polar explorer and mountaineer who has
completed the adventure Grand Slam, which entailed climbing the Seven
Summits and skiing both poles. What, ma, do you want
to climb Mount Everest? All right, it's kind of a
(00:45):
funny story. So I was born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona,
and when I was younger, I was always very intrigued
by the stories of the early Arctic and Antarctic explorers,
the early mountaineers. So I'd read these books and i
would watch these documentary films about these really could places.
I think because it felt like an escape from the
oppressive Phoenix heat in July and August, you know, where
(01:08):
temperatures can get to over a hundred twenty degrees. So
I'd read books and I'd watch documentary films, but I
actually never thought I would go to places like that
because I had some health challenges growing up. So I
was born with a hole in my heart that got
bigger as I got older, and I had my first
surgery when I was seventeen. I had my second one
when I was thirty. I had one more when I
(01:29):
was forty four. But after my second heart surgery, this
light bulb went onto my head and I just thought, Okay,
hang on, if I want to know what it's like
to be this guy, you know, Reinhold Messner, who's skied
across Antarctica all the way to the South Pole, you know,
six hundred miles, then I should go to Antarctica and
ski the six hundred miles to the South Pole. If
I want to know what it's like to be these
(01:50):
explorers going to these remote mountain ranges, and I should
go to the mountains instead of just reading books about
these guys, are watching documentaries about them. Why can't I
go out there and try these things myself. So that's
kind of how it started, just from a childhood, you know,
interest in these remote, extreme environments. So I actually, though,
didn't climb my first mountain until I was thirty two
(02:11):
exause I had to wait until um after my second
heart surgery. So yeah, so that's kind of how it started.
So I climbed my first one when I was thirty two,
and I'm fifty five now, and you know, the passion
has not died down yet, so it's been a couple
of decades. Now. Did you spend a lot of time
outside as a child as a teenager in your twenties,
Not so much as a child, because you just want
(02:34):
the air conditioning right when you're where you're growing up
in Phoenix. You know, my childhood dream. I always thought
that I wanted to be an air conditioning repair woman
as my career when I grew up, because I thought
high demand and job security, you know in Arizona, So
that's what I wanted to be. So um, So I
didn't spend a ton of time outdoors because most of
(02:57):
the year it's really hot. But I really did become
super active until after my second heart surgery. So take
us back to your childhood. What was it like for
you growing up? Did you see your parents taking a
lot of risks, so I grew up in a very
tough love household. My mom had this whole mantra about
(03:21):
no whining, no crying, no complaining, right, So that's kind
of the attitude that she wanted us to take, and
in some areas of life, it's really served me well
because in really difficult circumstances, I can see, you know,
I can see this sunlight coming through the clouds, I
can see the silver lining. I'm going to get through
whatever kind of tough situation I'm in without whining and
(03:44):
without complaining. But on the flip side, you know, sometimes
there are times where you need to call attention to
yourself and you need help in certain things. And I
grew up kind of afraid to ask for help and
wanting to not call attention to myself. So that's why,
you know, I was born with this whole in my heart,
(04:05):
and I didn't get properly diagnosed until I was seventeen
because I was afraid to tell my parents about excitent
want them to think I was complaining. You know. They
they talk about these like helicopter parents. I always joked
that I had space shuttle parents where I know that
they loved us, but they just seemed to be operating
well above you know, they weren't really paying too much
(04:25):
attention to what was going on with the kids. So
my mom just kept saying, you're fine, You're fine. So
I just kept trying to convince myself that I was fine,
but my health was deteriorating. And then finally, when I
was seventeen, I lost consciousness and the friends that I
was with at the time had the good sense to
rush me to the emergency room, where I was diagnosed
with this life threatening heart condition. So that's when I
(04:47):
had my my first surgery. How did your mom react
to that? My mom felt so guilty, and I loved
every minute of that, of course. So so what was
your first expedition in see you're you're in your thirties
and what happened? Right? Okay, So I'm in my thirties
and after my second heart surgery. So the first one
(05:08):
was not successful, the second one was. And that's when
the light bulb went onto my head and I thought, Okay,
if I want to know what it's like to be
in these remote stream environments, and I should go instead
of just reading about them or watching documentaries about them.
So I made plans with two girlfriends to go to
Mount Kilimanjarald because that's a mountain that you don't need
any special skills or training or special equipment for. And
(05:31):
so I had these plans to go with two girlfriends,
and I was really excited. I didn't own any of
the warm clothing that I needed. You know, growing up
in Arizona, I just didn't have a lot of warm clothes.
So I borrowed all of the gear and equipment that
I needed, except for hiking boots. I bought my own
hiking boots because I knew I needed those to be comfortable.
And I borrowed a backpack, a fleece jacket, a cortex jacket.
(05:52):
I borrowed everything I needed. And two weeks before we
were supposed to leave for Kilimanjarl, my girlfriend's just ida
that they wanted to go to Club Med in Cancun instead,
and and I thought, I do not want to. I
had no desire to go to Club Med and camcoun
only because growing up in Phoenix, uh, you know, warm
(06:13):
weather was not a big deal to me because I
had that all the time. And I wanted to do
something to celebrate my newfound state of health. Good health
and so I wanted to do something that would really
force me to get outside in my comfort zone and
push myself a little bit. And kilman Jarro was not
a difficult about in thousands of people climb it every year,
(06:34):
but for me it was a challenge because I had
never done anything extremely physical before and I wanted to
feel uncomfortable. You know, kileman jar O is pretty high.
It's over nineteen thou feet and so you feel the altitude,
you feel uncomfortable. And for me it was an important
trip to do because I wanted to do something that
made me feel uncomfortable. Did it make you feel uncomfortable? Oh? Yeah,
(06:57):
it did make me feel uncomfortable. But for me it
was a life changing experience. Again, not because it was
particularly difficult in the skill level wise what what it
requires to climb, But for me, I remember on summit
day feeling really sick to my stummit from the old situde,
feeling like I was gonna throw up, and thinking, Okay,
I'm not gonna be able to go any further, but
(07:18):
so I'm not going to make it to the summit.
But before I turn around and quit, I'm just gonna
take one or two more steps and see if the
view looks a little bit different just from a couple
of steps from where I am. So I took a
couple of steps, and then I thought, Okay, I know
for sure I'm going to turn around, but I'm just
gonna take a couple more steps, and I took a
couple more steps all right before I turned back. I'm
just gonna just take a couple more steps, but I
(07:39):
know I'm not going to make it, because I really
feel like I'm going to throw up, and I really
have a bad headache, and I know, I know I
need to turn back. And then before I knew it,
you know, just taking a couple of steps, a couple
more steps, a couple more steps. Eventually I found myself
standing on the top of the mountain. And it was
a great lesson for me because I learned that even
when you feel incredibly uncomfortable, and even when you feel
(08:02):
fear about what lies ahead, about the unknown, you can
always take one more step, right, And that's how you
get to the top of any mountain, your literal mountain
or figurative mountain. You just have to take one step
at a time, and everyone can always take one more
step and so for me that was kind of a
pivotal moment because I realized that the way you get
(08:24):
to the top of any mountain in your life is
just to keep taking one more step. What about your
your dad, what was his reaction when you started taking
these expeditions, even from the first one from Kelvin, Because
I know you say it's not that hard, but for
a lot of people they're like, I don't know, that
sounds dangerous. Well, my dad, he's kind of an interesting
background because he was an FBI agent, so he um
(08:44):
he was actually an FBI agent in the sixties under
Jaanker Hoover, and he was the first special agent to
ever publicly speak out against Hoover and the Bureau against
speak out against all the crazy things that jan Ger
Hoover was doing, all the illegal things that he was doing.
It at the time, Hoover was so powerful that nobody
wanted to touch him, nobody wanted to investigate him, and
(09:06):
my dad, you know, basically gave up his career in
the Bureau to do what he thought was right to
speak out against Hoover. And of course, after Hoover died,
then all these government agencies started to investigate him, and
they realized that he was doing a lot of unethical,
illegal things. And then my dad was you know, in
all these books and in Time magazine, but at the
time he was branded just a crazy person and a
(09:28):
threat to national security. So he's really a brave guy.
That taught me, you know, he taught me the importance
of speaking out when you see something that's unjust, even
if it costs you everything. And so he taught me
bravery in that sense. You know, what he was doing
wasn't physically brave, but psychologically emotionally like, he was very,
(09:53):
very brave. And so I learned that I could do
things that scare me, is what I and from him.
And I learned that you can be scared and brave
at the same time. You can you can be scared
and brave at the same time. Because he was, you know,
this brand new special agent in his twenties and was
really scared to speak out against Hoover because he was
(10:14):
so powerful at the time, but he did it anyway.
So what happened between Kilimanjaro and you completing the adventure
Grand Slam? All right? So the Adventure Grand Slam for
people listening who aren't sure what that is. The adventure
Grand Slam is climbing the seven Summits, which is the
highest peak on each of the seven continents, and then
(10:35):
skiing to both the North and the South Pole. So
I think today there's about twenty people in the world
who have done it, but at the time there were
I think I was like the second or third person
to do it. But what happened was I went to Kilimanjaro,
and then I really got hooked. I I loved the experience.
I loved the experience of feeling like I was really
uncomfortable and pushing myself anyway. And so after I did
(10:56):
killiman jar I thought, well, I wonder if I could
do something more difficult, and after that, more difficult, you know,
more technically, you know, a mountain that's higher, with more
technical skill required. And I just kept kind of working
my way up to higher and more difficult mountains. And
then in two thousand one, UM some women approached me
(11:16):
and asked me if I would be interested in serving
as the team captain for the first American Women's Everest Expedition,
which was a climb that was taking place in two
thousand two that was sponsored by the Ford Motor Company,
and so between Kilimanjaro in two thousand two, I had
climbed the highest peak on six of the seven continents
and then Everest was the last remaining one for me,
(11:39):
which we didn't get there. In two thousand two, the
first American women's ever se expedition was thwarted by bad
weather and we were forced to turn around just about
two seventy ft from the top. So it was a
great learning experience and it was, you know, a mountain
where I learned so much about myself, about managing risk,
about out facing fear, about the dangers of complacency, about
(12:05):
how to communicate with a team when the you know
what hits the fan, right when there's just pure chaos
and you're surrounded by unpredictability and you know, shifting and changing,
and how do you communicate with a team to get
everybody to feel confident to move forward. So I learned
(12:26):
so much on that on that expedition, even though we
didn't make it. What was the decision like to turn
around so close from the top. So whenever sexpedition takes
about two months, so and it's not just two months
of work on the mountain it's the months and months
of training. It's the all the time that goes into
(12:48):
fundraising and the logistics and playing the team together and
working with the sponsors. I mean, there's months and months
and months of hard work that goes into this before
you even get to the mountain. And then you get
to the mountain and you're the mountain for two months.
You're out there on the route, you know, fighting your
way up the mountain, and you miss it by less
(13:08):
than three hundred feet. Right this mountain is twenty nine
thousand thirty ft and you turn around two hundred and
seventy ft from the top, and it feels I mean,
first of all, I felt disappointed, of course, but I
felt disappointed in myself. I felt disappointed for my team.
I felt disappointed for Ford, our sponsors, and it just
(13:30):
was hard to have such a high profile failure because
we were the first American women's ever st expedition, we
had a ton of media coverage, and thank god, this
was before social media, but we did the whole morning
show circuit and the evening news anchors interviewed us, and
four hundred fifty media outlets followed the client. People were
doing live updates from the mountain and then we missed
(13:51):
the top by what feels like, you know, spitting distance.
So you have to go back to all the same
TV shows and talk about what how and in it
just it's hard to talk about this big failure. Right
we had this goal and we didn't achieve it, and
then we were the butt of Jay Lenos opening monologue joke,
and it's hard not to internalize that failure. And I
(14:14):
definitely internalized it for a while because everyone just talked
about the fact that we didn't make it right. Nobody
seemed to focus on the fact that we were the
first team of American women to even try something like this.
It was an altitude record for every single member of
the team. That everybody was so focused on this failure.
And so I would love to say, you know, it
didn't bother me. We tried our best, but it really
(14:37):
hit me very hard because, like I said, I felt
like I disappointed so many people, and it took me
a while to kind of process the whole failure and
to really realize that failure is one thing that happens
to at one point in time, that's all it is.
(14:58):
It's one thing that happens to you at one point
in time, and it doesn't define you, and it certainly
doesn't determine your legacy if you you know, if you
refuse to let it determine your legacy. And so initially
I was really afraid to go back to the mountain
because I thought, what if I fail again? What if
I don't make it again? Will I ever find another sponsor?
(15:19):
Will I ever find find people that want to climb
with me again? You know, what is this going to
do to my reputation and within the sporting you know,
within the industry, within the mountaineering industry. And but that's
what I had to realize. Okay, hang on, I can
either spend the rest of my life wondering what if?
Or I can just get over this fear, and I
(15:39):
can get over this feeling of disappointment right and feeling
like I failed everyone, And I can get past that
and I can get back out there on that mountain
and try it again. And if I don't make it
the second time, there's a third time, there's a fourth time.
I mean, no one sets the rules as far as
how many times you can attempt something that's really hard.
(15:59):
And the other thing is that I started to think about,
Like Sir Edmund Hillary intends Ignorgay right, So anyone that
was just a little something about the history Amount Everest
will know those names. Sir Edmund Hilly intends Ignora were
the first guys ever some Amount Everest back in n
But what people don't think about is the fact that
there were dozens of climbers who tried and failed before
(16:23):
those two made it to the summit. But Sir Edmund
Hilly intends Ignorga right. The famous guys who made it,
those guys had all the data, all the research, all
the information from those previous climbers. So if those other
guys hadn't had the guts to try it first, you know,
maybe Sir Edmund Hillary intends in Orgy would never have
made it. So that's how I started looking at failure
(16:44):
as failure is not necessarily something negative. And what I'm
doing when I pushed my boundaries, when I try really
hard things, I might be paving the way for other
people to go on and achieve great things in their lives,
even if I didn't have the outcome that I wanted
at the time. And so I started to look at
(17:06):
that American Women's everse expedition is maybe that's something that
will get more women interested in the sport of mountaineering.
Maybe that will get more women to actually go out
to these mountains and and try them and take more risks.
And maybe it's not mountains. Maybe it maybe what we
did inspired women to try whatever sport or starting a
company or whatever it is in life that they were
(17:28):
feeling fearful of. Maybe what we did will help them
get past that fear. Right. So that's how I changed
my perspective on failure. And now for a quick break.
You've talked a lot about the power of networking and
the power of connection and relationships. How did these women
find you? Because you said they asked you to be
(17:50):
the captain? And then do you still keep in touch
with them? So the number of women in the sport
back in two thousand one and was far fewer than
it is today. There weren't that many women in the sports.
So we kind of, you know, a lot of us
kind of knew each other. And I had connected with
this one woman named Lynn Prebble who lived in southern Colorado. Oh,
(18:13):
we connected. I just remembered how we connected. So I'm
five foot four, Lynn is four ft nine and she
was going to climb this mountain into back called show
oh you, And they didn't make down suits small enough
to fit people like us. And I had found this
old pair of men's extra extra small down bibbs at
(18:36):
a used gear store in Seattle one day. So someone
told her like she was looking for for down down
bibbs or a down suit or something like that, and
someone connected her with me, and they were like, I
know another woman in the sport who's really small. You
should connect with Alice and Levin. So she she emailed
me and she said, is there anyway I could rent
(18:57):
those down bibbs from you? Can I just pay you
and borrowed them? And I was like, you're not gonna
pay me, just just take them and you know, come
back alive and make sure I get them back. So
that's how we initially connected. And then it's just like
one of those things where I started talking to people
when I wanted to plan various trips and on all
(19:18):
my breaks from grad school, I wanted to go to
a different mountain and have a different experience. So I'd
ask people, who do you know you know who's a
woman who's you know fairly experienced, and who you would
want to hang out in a tent with. That's the thing, right,
because you're on every steer on the mountain for two months.
You you want someone that you would want to spend
two months in intent with. And it's interesting when you're
(19:40):
putting together these teams because you want to find the
perfect mix of people who are skilled and experienced, but
we are also going to be really good team players,
because you don't want to be high up on a
dangerous mountain with the best best climbers if they don't
care about the team. And on the flip side, you
don't want to be up there with people who are
(20:00):
really fun and cool, you know, and you have a
great sense of humor if they don't have the skills
to be successful in that environment. So you want to
find people who are a mix of both. And like
I said, back in two thousand, two thousand one, there
weren't that many women in the sport, and so we
all just kind of got connected through friends of friends,
and that's how the trip really came together. So what
(20:21):
made you go back eight years later? I mean, there
must have been other points during that time that you
thought of going back, or what was it. I did
think about it, but I was so afraid of that
failure again. And I mean, I'm embarrassed to even say
that that held me back for so many years, but
I will say it because I'm sure there's people listening
to this that have had disappointments and failures that are
(20:44):
holding them back. And I don't think I realized how
much that fear of failure was holding me back. I
always had an excuse. Oh, I don't have the funding
you know lined up. Oh I don't I can't take
the time off of work. Oh I have too much
debt all you know, all of these convenient excuses. And
then a friend of mine, a really dear friend of
(21:05):
mine named mag Brita Owen, ended up passing away very unexpectedly.
She was thirty seven years old, and I thought she
was one of the bravest people I've ever met in
my entire life. And she was always trying these crazy things,
writing learning how to ride a motorcycle and riding across
country and skydiving or whatever like. She just seemed completely
(21:25):
fearless to me, and she was one of the first
people I saw when I got back from the mountain
in two thousand two after our failed Everest attempt, and
I remember we had coffee in New York and she said, right,
so you're gonna go back next year and try it again, right?
And I was like, uh, no, girlfriend, not going back
next year to try it again. And she said, okay,
(21:47):
then you'll go the year after. I said no, I'm
not going back to that mountain. Well after she passed away,
I just thought, Okay, I want to do something to
honor this amazing woman and her courageous spirit. And so
I decided to go back to Mount Everest just a
couple of months after Meg passed because I wanted to
(22:08):
do something to honor her, because I was always so
inspired by her courage and her willingness to try new
things and her carefree attitude about failure. Wealth I try
this and I'm not good at it, who cares? It's
I'm gonna, you know, enjoy the journey. And so I
I actually engraved her name in my ice acs and
I went back to the mountain because I wanted to
(22:28):
feel like she was coming with me. And I thought,
if I have her name on my ice ax, I'm
gonna feel like she's with me every step of the way,
and I think, you know, we all have women in
our lives that inspire us. We all have women who
are cheerleaders for us. And I thought, well, even though
Meg isn't around anymore, I felt like she was always
my cheerleader. So I even though she wasn't around physically,
(22:50):
I felt like she was with me in spirit. And
that kind of gave me the courage to go back
because I thought she would be so disappointed in me
if she knew that I wasn't going back because I
was afraid to pale. So that was kind of what
motivated me to go back again in two thousand and ten.
And Alison, I don't know if you know, but Mega
(23:11):
is a very dear friend of mine in college. She
was my college roommate and so she used to be
a very big part of my life too. And wow, yeah,
so when I read your book, I was like, it
was eerie because I didn't really realize that until Yeah. Yeah.
It's funny because when we started this podcast, I was thinking, Oh,
I wonder if Sam would have known magg at Harvard. Yeah, Well,
(23:33):
she's so amazing, right, wasn't she just like such an
incredible spirit, The spirit she had about her. So one
of the things that struck me about reading about your
second attempt at Mount Everest was that you this time
weren't part of a team, and so your reaction really
was so different. Can you share that with us. I'm
(23:55):
glad you asked about that, because it really clarified to
me what a team is so before my second attempt
on ever. So okay, So, as you know, in two
thousand two, we were the American Women's Everset Expedition. We
went to this mountain as a team. We were sponsored
by Ford, We were climbing as a team. In two
(24:18):
thousand and ten, when I went back, I was one
person on a permit with eight other people, and I
just assumed, Okay, this group that I'm with, this is
my team. But what I learned is that just because
you're doing something with a group of people at the
same time, even if you all have the same goal,
(24:40):
it doesn't make you a team. It just makes you
a group of people doing something at the same time.
And I think that's really different from being a team.
And I think what makes the group a team is
when the people involved care as much about helping the
people around them achieve the goal as I care about
(25:00):
achieving it themselves. And I really missed missed that sense
of team camaraderie that we had in two thousand two.
When I went back in two thousand and ten, there
were some people in the group that were really good teammates,
but there are others that seemed to be very self involved,
that didn't seem to care too much about helping the
people around them. And in their defense, they didn't sign
(25:23):
up to be a team. They signed up to be,
you know, they signed up for a permit spot, you know,
to climb the mountain. But to me, it should be
automatic that when you see somebody who's having a tough time,
you stop and you ask what you can do to help.
And I also really learned that just a few kind
(25:43):
words of encouragement shared with somebody who's struggling can completely
change the outcome of a situation, right, I would argue,
could completely change somebody's life. And I missed that sense
of team camaraderie when I went back in two thousand ten,
and I learned that I don't ever want to be
in a remote extreme environment with a group. I wanted
(26:04):
to be with the team. I wanted to be with
people who I know are looking out for me, and
of course I would be looking out for them as well,
and it's just a hard way to learn that lesson.
So what was it like when you returned you you
talked about a letdown. Yeah, So, I think because I
had internalized this failure from two thousand two and had
(26:29):
so much like emotional build up to going back in
two thousand and ten, that I expected when I got
to the top of the mountain that it would just
be the greatest feeling ever and all this emotion and
all this hard work and everything, this is it. It's
(26:49):
this is paying off. I finally did it, and I
didn't feel like that at all. I got to the
top of the mountain and I looked around and I thought, okay, well,
we actually didn't even have good us that day because
we also had bad weather in two thousand ton on
some day. But I just remember feeling like, Okay, this
(27:09):
is it. It was felt a little anti climactic, and
I think the reason it felt that way to me
and I have friends that have somebody that to this
day will say, this was the greatest day of my life.
And these are people who haven't been through you know,
the birth of a child, you know, they've been married.
You know, there's other days that certain people think are
important in their lives. And these people were saying standing
(27:31):
on top of that mountain was the best, most important
day in my life. And for me, I just felt like, Okay,
I'm just standing on top of a really tall pile
of rock and ice. That's all this is. This is
a really tall pile of rock and ice, and here
I am staying on top of it. And I realized
that standing on top of that mountain, it doesn't change anything, right,
I didn't feel like it was going to change me,
(27:52):
and it certainly wasn't going to impact the world in
any positive way. Um. And I realized that this thing
that had haunted me, you know, this this goal that
haunted me for so many years, really wasn't important after all.
Now that said, what was important was, of course, the
lessons that you learn along the way, right when you're
(28:14):
fighting to get up there. And so I was really
glad that I went back the second time because I
didn't have to always like wonder, what if you know,
what if I went back? Because I knew what I knew?
What if I knew what that what if was. But
I was grateful for the experience because I realized that
you have to push past the point of being uncomfortable
(28:35):
sometimes when you when you have set these goals that
feel like they're going to be a ridiculous, hairy stretch,
you have to learn to keep pushing when it feels
really uncomfortable and that that's okay. And I think the
the crazy thing is on on the mountain. The higher
you get on the mountain, the closer you are to
the summit, but the more uncomfortable you become because the
(28:57):
higher up in elevation, you know, the worse your altitude
headache is going to get, the more sick to your
stomach you're going to feel. So you know, as you
get closer to your goal, you're going to feel worse
and worse and worse. What are some of the lessons
you've taken away from your other expeditions. We've really focused
on one a lot, but you've done so many things
And the thing to me is that like, you keep
(29:18):
doing it and they're really hard, and to like, what
what do you keep learning? What keeps driving you to
go back and do more and seek other adventures? For me,
I just love to learning. Even when I go back
to mountains that I've already climbed, it's still new because
sometimes the route is different, the team is different, the
weather is different. I mean, I can go back to
the same mountain multiple times and it feels different each time.
(29:41):
So for me, I just like learning and just also
reminding myself that I can. I can keep going even
when I feel like quitting, right, because you can always
take one more step. So you've been able to really
parlay these lessons into lessons you've taken back to the
business world, and you've become one of the top corporate
(30:02):
speakers in the world. How did that happen? You know,
it's funny, I ask myself the same thing. So I
it's I'm represented by one of the world's largest bureaus.
It's called Coupler Speakers, And in two thousand nineteen, the
CEO told me that I surpassed Jim Lovell from a
Pole thirteen as the number one speaker in the thirty
five year history of the bureau. So I'll tell you
(30:24):
there's a couple of things. First of all, I think
the key is when when you're on stage, So delivering
a good talk is just one part of it. But
when you're on stage, you got to remember it's not
about you. It's about the audience, and so the story
can't be about you. It has to be about about them.
And what are you going to deliver to them? This
is my mindset. I think, what am I going to
(30:45):
deliver to them that's gonna make them feel like they
were glad that they just spent that hour with me
or forty five minutes however long it was. Because time
is our most valuable resource. You're never gonna get that
that and I want people to walk out feeling like,
oh my god, I'm so glad I sat in on
that presentation. There's nowhere else I would have rather been
than in that room with Alison Living. So before every speech,
(31:06):
that's what's going through my head. What am I going
to deliver to this audience so that they feel like
there's nowhere else they would rather be. So that's part one, right,
It's just and feeling relatable to the audience. And because
I remember being in corporate America, being on the audience
side of it, and I would hear some speakers, maybe
an Olympic athlete, which is amazing to be an Olympian.
But I would hear the stories about from the time
(31:29):
I was six years old. You know, my family moved
me here so I could train in the Olympic village.
And I was super disciplined, and I worked out four
hours in the morning, whatever trained four hours in the morning,
and trained four hours in the evening, and only eight
these things. And I had a nutritionist, and I had
a coach, and I had and and that's really admirable.
But I'm sitting here thinking, okay, like I'm just trying
(31:49):
to get through my day in my cube every day
without murdering the person sitting across from me. So I
just can't relate to any of that because I didn't
have this training, you know, all this stuff growing up.
And so I kept in mind, like I want to
be relatable. I want people to know I'm not an
elite athlete. I'm just a person who with this passion,
(32:11):
who puts one ft in front of the other. Right,
I'm I'm never going to be the best and the
fastest and the strongest. So I have trouble relating to
people who get on stage who say I am the best,
I was the fastest, I was the strongest, because I'm like,
that's never going to be me. So I think being
relatable is one thing, but the other thing is just
it's the extras too, that you do when you're a
(32:32):
corporate speaker. I remember early in my career when clients
would call and they'd be like, hey, I know your
speeches until two pm, but can you come down for
the seven am breakfast? And I'd be like, oh, you know,
I'd thinking like I need to sleep, like I'm going
to pass on breakfast, and then my agent would be like, yeah,
Peyton Manning went down for the breakfast, you know, and
and you said no. And so realizing like doing those
(32:54):
extras and making sure the client knows how important they
are too, because I'm thinking, I just I really need
sleep so I can be my best when I'm on stage.
But what they hear when I say I don't want
to go to the breakfast, what they hear is, oh,
I guess we're not that important to her. And so
just being the person that says yes, being the person
(33:14):
that makes sure that the A V team and the
production team feel appreciated, and realizing you know, it's again,
it's not about me, It's about everybody else that's here,
So I think that, um, that helps. But also I mean,
you have to be able to tell your story in
a way that people can relate to. So that's part
(33:35):
of it too. But I feel like we all have
a story to share and you can never get it
wrong when you're telling your story right. If it's your story,
no one's gonna be like Sam, like, that's not what
happened to do that day in junior high. So it's
your story. Tell it in the way that feels authentic
to you, and if you're that person, I think it
(33:55):
will resonate well with the audiences. But also think keeping
a sense of humor as important. And now for a
quick break, Alison, A lot of people want to be
signed by a speaker's bureau, but you were signed by
one of the top ones. Was it easy? How did
you do it? So? I have been trying for about
a year to find representation from a speaker's bureau and
(34:20):
I wasn't having any less. So it was after the
first American Women's Everest Expedition and I was approaching these
bureaus saying, I really like to be out on the
speaking circuit and here's my story, and they would say, okay,
so you tried to climb out Everyston didn't make it
like lots of people done that, and they said, we
we actually represent people who have have climb Mount Everest,
(34:42):
so we think that's a little bit of an easier
sell than trying to sell someone who didn't climb out Everston.
So I was hold calling Bureaus. I was trying to
meet with them in person. Said that maybe if I
can get in front of them, I could convince them,
but Bureaus just kept saying, we don't meet with speakers
that we don't represent. And I'm thinking, well, if you
don't meet with me first, how you know if you
(35:03):
want to represent me? And then how you know it's
just the chicken before the egg or the egg before
the chicken. I was like, how does this work? And
nobody was willing to talk to me, and I finally
I called Kepler Speakers and they had heard of me
because I had spoken at this um Forbes Executive Women's Forum,
(35:23):
and somebody from there called Kepler and said, we just
heard this woman speak, can you get her for us?
And so I had had one interaction with them, like
they called me to get my information, but they never
followed up or anything. So I called them and I
completely lied and said, hey, I'm going to be in
the DC area, which I wasn't, but I said, I'm
gonna be in the DC area. Can I just stop
(35:44):
by for five or ten minutes and say hello? And
they said, sure, you can stop by. I mean, we
love to hear from news speakers, so come on and
you can stop by. So now I'm like burning all
my frequent Flyer miles to buy a plane ticket to
d C to pretend like I, you know, was going in.
And so I studied up on every single agent I
got online. I looked at all the agents profiles. I
(36:06):
memorized something about each one of them. So when I
walked in that conference room and shook their hand, Oh, hey, Elliott,
are you going to horse races this weekend? Because I
knew he liked horse racing and somebody else went to
University of Maryland. So I shook his hand and I
was like, hey, Billy like go tirps. So I knew
something about every single person that I met, so I thought, okay, this,
this will help me. And then I gave them my
(36:27):
pitch and Jim Kepler, who was the head of Kepler
speakers said, oh, you know what that was. That was
really good. I think we could, you know, maybe do
some work with you. And I thought, oh great, and
I really got my hopes up. I thought, oh, I
nailed it, you know, I grudged it. And then I
never heard from them, and months and months and months
went by, not a peep from them, and then finally
(36:50):
I get a phone call from their top agent at
the time, this guy Gary McManus. And he called and said, um, hey, Allison,
Gary McManus from Kepler. I think you were in our
office about nine months ago. And I said yes, yes, yes,
and he said I have this opportunity for you that
I think you would be perfect for. And I said,
oh great, you know, tell me about it. And he said, well,
(37:10):
before I tell you about it, what are the chances
you could get yourself to Vegas before tomorrow morning at
seven am. This is like a Wednesday evening. And I
was like, um, and he said yeah. He said, we
have five thousand people at this conference in Mandalay Bay,
and the speaker for tomorrow morning, he said, it's the
final day of the event, and the keynote speaker in
(37:30):
the morning just canceled. And so I think it's about
six o'clock Pacific time, and there is a ten thirty
pm flight that could get me to Vegas. And I said, well,
there's ten thirty flight. I can get on that. You know,
I can be there by twelve thirty, be at the
hotel by twelve thirty one am. And he said, great,
book the flight, Call the client, tell the introduce yourself,
(37:54):
tell them that you will be there. And I said great, great.
So I'm super excited. It's like my first chance, right,
my first chance to actually get on stage. So I
called the client and I said, hey, Jeff, it's Alison Leviv.
I'm gonna be replacing your speaker tomorrow morning. Uh, can
you just give me an idea of what you want
(38:14):
me to focus on in my speech? And he goes,
I don't give a f what you focus on. I
just want my audience to not be piste off that
Carolyne kept here is a no show. So Carolyne kept here.
People remember if you remember the show The Apprentice, which
was really big back in the mid two thousands, you
(38:37):
know Donald Trump show, right, and Caroline was the executive
vice president of the Trump Organization, Right, she was, and
she was the one in the boardroom with him on
the show, the one with the short blonde hair, and
so it was a hit show at the time, and
she was supposed to be the keynote speaker on the
closing day, and he's like, I don't I just wanted
to not be piste off that Caroline is a no show, Like, okay,
(38:59):
got it. So get to the hotel by about one
o'clock in the morning, and I stayed up the whole
entire night, and I crafted this presentation around being a
clutch player. And what I mean by being a clutch
player is being the person that people know they can
count on, being the person that comes through when they
(39:19):
say they're going to come through, being the person that
always delivers when they say they're going to deliver. So
I stayed up the whole night and did not go
to bed for one minute, and I crafted this presentation,
and then I photoshopped Caroline capture and Donald Trump into
my slides and I had the year fired video and
and also so I get there in the morning and
(39:43):
I do the presentation. I end up getting a standing
ovation and the meeting planner comes up to me afterwards
and he goes, okay. He goes, first of all, when
did you put together that presentation? Because I know you
got here at one o'clock in the morning. And I said, well,
I stayed up the whole night. I haven't gone to
bed for one minute. I've been up since since I arrived.
(40:04):
I didn't go to bed at all. I worked on
it the whole night. And he said, I can't believe
you would do that. And I said, of course I
would do that. You were counting on me. You had
five thousand people in this audience that we're counting on
having a good speaker. Of course I would do that.
He goes, okay, who are you? And he said, no offense,
I've never heard of you before. I want to know
(40:25):
why no speakers bureaus have ever recommended you to me.
He said, because you just got like the biggest standing
ovation and and and so I just came clean and
I said, well, Jeff, I'm not anyone anyone's ever heard
of like you. There's no reason you would have heard
heard of me before. I said, And I gotta tell you,
I've been trying to get on these speakers bureaus radar.
(40:49):
I've been trying to get them to pay attention to
me for close to a year and I can't even
get anybody to return my phone calls. And he said,
I book more speakers than any meeting planner in the country,
and I'm going to call every speaker's bureau that I
have ever worked with and tell them what you did
here today. And he did, and he got on the
phone and he called every major speakers bureau and then
(41:12):
my phone's ringing off the hook from Washington Speakers Bureau
and leading authorities and Harry Walker, I mean, everyone's calling.
And so he really helped me launch my career, and
from that time on, I was super, super busy. And
the lesson for me is that I want to share
with people is that you need to treat every opportunity
(41:34):
as if it could be your one big break. Treat
every opportunity because you could. You know, some people could
maybe go into that situation and be like, look, I'm
the last minute replacement. The expectations are going to be low.
You know, I'm sure whatever I do, they're gonna be
it'll be fine, because they know I just just got
in at one o'clock in the morning. I mean, what
do they expected me, But instead I just wanted to
(41:55):
over deliver and treat it like it could be that
big break that I was for and it was. It
was that one big break. And then then the next
year I was super busy. I've been busy since. But
the funny thing is that I ended up signing an
exclusive contract with Kepler Speakers. Okay, it's time for our
speed round, Allison, where we're going to ask you quick
(42:16):
questions and you can give quick answers. What book are
you reading right now, Allison? Right now, I am reading
a book called Roar by Michael Clinton, and it's all
about how to roar into the second half of your
life and realizing that middle age is like a new
you know, a new lease on life, and it's never
(42:36):
too late to create a new life and create a
new career and try new things. And it's really inspiring
me to look at the second half of my life
as like just the beginning. What's the next adventure you're
going to tackle? Oh, the next adventure I'm tackling is um.
I'm working on a documentary film. It's a first for me.
I've never worked on a documentary before. But it's about
the first female Serpa to ever summit Mount Everest, and
(42:59):
she was amazing role model. She unfortunately died on the mountain,
but um, she broke through a lot of barriers. So
it's working on that documentary right now. What is your
morning routine? My morning routine is to wake up and
cuddle with my dogs. I have two Labrador Retrievers, and
starting the day with a dog cuddle, to me is
just the best thing, Like, no matter what happens during
(43:21):
the day, I got that dog cuddle in, it's all
gonna be okay. What was the last personal challenge you experienced.
The last personal challenge I experienced, I would say, Um,
I think probably just dealing with the fact that we're
(43:44):
all so remote with COVID and feeling super disconnected with
people who are important to me, and then feeling like
I haven't done what I need to be doing to
help take care of other people because I feel like
I've been kind of inwardly focused. So for me, that's
been challenge and something that I've had to grapple with
and think about and how to be conscious of the
fact that even though we're all dealing with our own
(44:05):
challenges and need to make sure to continue to reach
out to other people who are important and put the
time into those relationships. So that's something I regret. Over
the past year, I feel like I've been to andwardly focused.
And now we'll go to lou for our male perspective
and my research. It was very brief. I didn't see
any kids. You know, traditionally extraordinary women like you exist
(44:30):
as moms. You know, dog mom doesn't count. I'm just kidding.
So I'll tell you a little bit. Is um, both
my parents suffered from extreme, extreme mental illness, and my
dad is bipolar and has been controlled on medications since
he was forty. My mom suffered from extreme depression where
(44:53):
she didn't want to get out of her room every
day until the kids, like we got up, got you know,
got ourselves stressed, and got ourselves off to school. And
so I think as a child, like with two parents,
I like that suffered from mental illness. I felt like
the parent a lot of the time, and so when
I got to adulthood, I kind of felt like I
(45:15):
needed a break from parenting. And I just feel like
I've been parenting my whole life, trying to deal with
my both my parents situations and their diseases. Their illnesses
were very, very different and manifested themselves in different ways.
But by the time I became an adult, I just thought,
I'm tired. I'm kind of tired of parenting, and so
(45:36):
maybe I can take all the love and passion and
good energy and put it into other areas, right instead
of um being parents. And I'm so glad you asked
that question, because I think a lot of people wonder
but they don't ask it, And I'm glad you asked
it because we need to talk about this stuff, and
(45:56):
we need to talk about mental illness. I know, Sam,
you and I have just watched that the Marty Fish
documentary Breaking Point, which was amazing. But when I was
growing up, people didn't talk about mental illness, and so
I was like, why doesn't my mom come out of
her room? Why doesn't she turn the lights on? Like
what is going on? And you know, as I got older,
I realized what was going on, and it just felt
(46:17):
like a lot to take on as a kid. And
so by the time I got to adulthood, I'm like,
I'm tired, I'm tired of parenting, and so I'm just kinna,
I need a break from it. And I just thought,
I've learned all these amazing lessons about resilience and courage
and determination, and maybe there's ways that you can share
your wisdom and insight with the world without having to
(46:38):
have your own kids. So I'm really glad that you
asked that question, Amy, I could have listened to Allison
for hours, Like, I mean, there were so many things
that I know we both wanted to ask her that
we never even got to. Oh, I know, like I
wanted to ask her more about her personal life outside
the expeditions and all of the amazing things she has done,
(47:00):
Like does she have a personal life. I mean, I'm
sure she does, but like we didn't really get to
touch on that. And I think, I mean, it's really
hard when you talk to somebody who's taken on these
monumental challenges, Like it's just hard for someone like need
to even understand it. Did you run a marathon? Amy,
I've run a few marathons, actually, but like that's not
like somebody Everest, so like to me, it's similar, like
(47:24):
I have no desire to run a marathon or climb
out everything. So the fact that you've run marathons seems
like you're closer to being her than I would ever
you were a Division one tennis player. So to me,
like that is like this grueling endurance adventure that lasted
for years and years and years, right, Like we've all
done very hard things, but I just think with Alison,
(47:46):
like it's like the hardest thing for me to understand
Sam was that she didn't start doing this until she
was in her early thirties. Like that is wild. You know,
she's like the July a child of of of climbing.
I mean I had to find when she talked about
her childhood, especially when you asked about like her dad.
I mean, I thought it was really fascinating because it
(48:09):
reminded me of reading Andre Agassi is Open and you
realize like Andregon would not have been a champion if
it weren't for his abusive father. Really, and it made
me think, like would she be this this adventure grand
slam person if she didn't have parents who were so tough.
(48:29):
It really is interesting how how so much of our
childhood and our environment shapes who we become. I mean
it does right, like it's everything. It stays with you forever,
which is something that we should do an entire podcast up. Yes.
I mean I also just don't want to leave without
mentioning her speaking career, which is extraordinary. I love that
(48:50):
story about how she got herself to d C to
have that meeting with her speakers Bureau, and then how
she You and I are very similar to that in
terms of the five thirty at night. If we got
a call if I thirty at nights saying there's a
huge opportunity, can you be across the country by seven am?
Like you and I are probably the only people I
(49:12):
know who would immediately say yes. I was completely thinking
the same thing when she was telling us that story.
I was like, Sam and I would do that. Thanks
for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
We would so appreciate if you would leave of you
wherever you get your podcasts, and of course connect with
(49:33):
us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company,
The Riveter at The Riveter dot c o in Sam's company,
park Place Payments at park place payments dot com. Thanks
to our producer Stacy Para, our social media manager Phoebe
crane Fest, and our male perspective Lou Burns
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. Today, We're
(00:24):
so excited to welcome to the show. One of the
most inspiring women we've had the chance to speak with,
Alison Levine, is a polar explorer and mountaineer who has
completed the adventure Grand Slam, which entailed climbing the Seven
Summits and skiing both poles. What, ma, do you want
to climb Mount Everest? All right, it's kind of a
(00:45):
funny story. So I was born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona,
and when I was younger, I was always very intrigued
by the stories of the early Arctic and Antarctic explorers,
the early mountaineers. So I'd read these books and i
would watch these documentary films about these really could places.
I think because it felt like an escape from the
oppressive Phoenix heat in July and August, you know, where
(01:08):
temperatures can get to over a hundred twenty degrees. So
I'd read books and I'd watch documentary films, but I
actually never thought I would go to places like that
because I had some health challenges growing up. So I
was born with a hole in my heart that got
bigger as I got older, and I had my first
surgery when I was seventeen. I had my second one
when I was thirty. I had one more when I
(01:29):
was forty four. But after my second heart surgery, this
light bulb went onto my head and I just thought, Okay,
hang on, if I want to know what it's like
to be this guy, you know, Reinhold Messner, who's skied
across Antarctica all the way to the South Pole, you know,
six hundred miles, then I should go to Antarctica and
ski the six hundred miles to the South Pole. If
I want to know what it's like to be these
(01:50):
explorers going to these remote mountain ranges, and I should
go to the mountains instead of just reading books about
these guys, are watching documentaries about them. Why can't I
go out there and try these things myself. So that's
kind of how it started, just from a childhood, you know,
interest in these remote, extreme environments. So I actually, though,
didn't climb my first mountain until I was thirty two
(02:11):
exause I had to wait until um after my second
heart surgery. So yeah, so that's kind of how it started.
So I climbed my first one when I was thirty two,
and I'm fifty five now, and you know, the passion
has not died down yet, so it's been a couple
of decades. Now. Did you spend a lot of time
outside as a child as a teenager in your twenties,
Not so much as a child, because you just want
(02:34):
the air conditioning right when you're where you're growing up
in Phoenix. You know, my childhood dream. I always thought
that I wanted to be an air conditioning repair woman
as my career when I grew up, because I thought
high demand and job security, you know in Arizona, So
that's what I wanted to be. So um, So I
didn't spend a ton of time outdoors because most of
(02:57):
the year it's really hot. But I really did become
super active until after my second heart surgery. So take
us back to your childhood. What was it like for
you growing up? Did you see your parents taking a
lot of risks, so I grew up in a very
tough love household. My mom had this whole mantra about
(03:21):
no whining, no crying, no complaining, right, So that's kind
of the attitude that she wanted us to take, and
in some areas of life, it's really served me well
because in really difficult circumstances, I can see, you know,
I can see this sunlight coming through the clouds, I
can see the silver lining. I'm going to get through
whatever kind of tough situation I'm in without whining and
(03:44):
without complaining. But on the flip side, you know, sometimes
there are times where you need to call attention to
yourself and you need help in certain things. And I
grew up kind of afraid to ask for help and
wanting to not call attention to myself. So that's why,
you know, I was born with this whole in my heart,
(04:05):
and I didn't get properly diagnosed until I was seventeen
because I was afraid to tell my parents about excitent
want them to think I was complaining. You know. They
they talk about these like helicopter parents. I always joked
that I had space shuttle parents where I know that
they loved us, but they just seemed to be operating
well above you know, they weren't really paying too much
(04:25):
attention to what was going on with the kids. So
my mom just kept saying, you're fine, You're fine. So
I just kept trying to convince myself that I was fine,
but my health was deteriorating. And then finally, when I
was seventeen, I lost consciousness and the friends that I
was with at the time had the good sense to
rush me to the emergency room, where I was diagnosed
with this life threatening heart condition. So that's when I
(04:47):
had my my first surgery. How did your mom react
to that? My mom felt so guilty, and I loved
every minute of that, of course. So so what was
your first expedition in see you're you're in your thirties
and what happened? Right? Okay, So I'm in my thirties
and after my second heart surgery. So the first one
(05:08):
was not successful, the second one was. And that's when
the light bulb went onto my head and I thought, Okay,
if I want to know what it's like to be
in these remote stream environments, and I should go instead
of just reading about them or watching documentaries about them.
So I made plans with two girlfriends to go to
Mount Kilimanjarald because that's a mountain that you don't need
any special skills or training or special equipment for. And
(05:31):
so I had these plans to go with two girlfriends,
and I was really excited. I didn't own any of
the warm clothing that I needed. You know, growing up
in Arizona, I just didn't have a lot of warm clothes.
So I borrowed all of the gear and equipment that
I needed, except for hiking boots. I bought my own
hiking boots because I knew I needed those to be comfortable.
And I borrowed a backpack, a fleece jacket, a cortex jacket.
(05:52):
I borrowed everything I needed. And two weeks before we
were supposed to leave for Kilimanjarl, my girlfriend's just ida
that they wanted to go to Club Med in Cancun instead,
and and I thought, I do not want to. I
had no desire to go to Club Med and camcoun
only because growing up in Phoenix, uh, you know, warm
(06:13):
weather was not a big deal to me because I
had that all the time. And I wanted to do
something to celebrate my newfound state of health. Good health
and so I wanted to do something that would really
force me to get outside in my comfort zone and
push myself a little bit. And kilman Jarro was not
a difficult about in thousands of people climb it every year,
(06:34):
but for me it was a challenge because I had
never done anything extremely physical before and I wanted to
feel uncomfortable. You know, kileman jar O is pretty high.
It's over nineteen thou feet and so you feel the altitude,
you feel uncomfortable. And for me it was an important
trip to do because I wanted to do something that
made me feel uncomfortable. Did it make you feel uncomfortable? Oh? Yeah,
(06:57):
it did make me feel uncomfortable. But for me it
was a life changing experience. Again, not because it was
particularly difficult in the skill level wise what what it
requires to climb, But for me, I remember on summit
day feeling really sick to my stummit from the old situde,
feeling like I was gonna throw up, and thinking, Okay,
I'm not gonna be able to go any further, but
(07:18):
so I'm not going to make it to the summit.
But before I turn around and quit, I'm just gonna
take one or two more steps and see if the
view looks a little bit different just from a couple
of steps from where I am. So I took a
couple of steps, and then I thought, Okay, I know
for sure I'm going to turn around, but I'm just
gonna take a couple more steps, and I took a
couple more steps all right before I turned back. I'm
just gonna just take a couple more steps, but I
(07:39):
know I'm not going to make it, because I really
feel like I'm going to throw up, and I really
have a bad headache, and I know, I know I
need to turn back. And then before I knew it,
you know, just taking a couple of steps, a couple
more steps, a couple more steps. Eventually I found myself
standing on the top of the mountain. And it was
a great lesson for me because I learned that even
when you feel incredibly uncomfortable, and even when you feel
(08:02):
fear about what lies ahead, about the unknown, you can
always take one more step, right, And that's how you
get to the top of any mountain, your literal mountain
or figurative mountain. You just have to take one step
at a time, and everyone can always take one more
step and so for me that was kind of a
pivotal moment because I realized that the way you get
(08:24):
to the top of any mountain in your life is
just to keep taking one more step. What about your
your dad, what was his reaction when you started taking
these expeditions, even from the first one from Kelvin, Because
I know you say it's not that hard, but for
a lot of people they're like, I don't know, that
sounds dangerous. Well, my dad, he's kind of an interesting
background because he was an FBI agent, so he um
(08:44):
he was actually an FBI agent in the sixties under
Jaanker Hoover, and he was the first special agent to
ever publicly speak out against Hoover and the Bureau against
speak out against all the crazy things that jan Ger
Hoover was doing, all the illegal things that he was doing.
It at the time, Hoover was so powerful that nobody
wanted to touch him, nobody wanted to investigate him, and
(09:06):
my dad, you know, basically gave up his career in
the Bureau to do what he thought was right to
speak out against Hoover. And of course, after Hoover died,
then all these government agencies started to investigate him, and
they realized that he was doing a lot of unethical,
illegal things. And then my dad was you know, in
all these books and in Time magazine, but at the
time he was branded just a crazy person and a
(09:28):
threat to national security. So he's really a brave guy.
That taught me, you know, he taught me the importance
of speaking out when you see something that's unjust, even
if it costs you everything. And so he taught me
bravery in that sense. You know, what he was doing
wasn't physically brave, but psychologically emotionally like, he was very,
(09:53):
very brave. And so I learned that I could do
things that scare me, is what I and from him.
And I learned that you can be scared and brave
at the same time. You can you can be scared
and brave at the same time. Because he was, you know,
this brand new special agent in his twenties and was
really scared to speak out against Hoover because he was
(10:14):
so powerful at the time, but he did it anyway.
So what happened between Kilimanjaro and you completing the adventure
Grand Slam? All right? So the Adventure Grand Slam for
people listening who aren't sure what that is. The adventure
Grand Slam is climbing the seven Summits, which is the
highest peak on each of the seven continents, and then
(10:35):
skiing to both the North and the South Pole. So
I think today there's about twenty people in the world
who have done it, but at the time there were
I think I was like the second or third person
to do it. But what happened was I went to Kilimanjaro,
and then I really got hooked. I I loved the experience.
I loved the experience of feeling like I was really
uncomfortable and pushing myself anyway. And so after I did
(10:56):
killiman jar I thought, well, I wonder if I could
do something more difficult, and after that, more difficult, you know,
more technically, you know, a mountain that's higher, with more
technical skill required. And I just kept kind of working
my way up to higher and more difficult mountains. And
then in two thousand one, UM some women approached me
(11:16):
and asked me if I would be interested in serving
as the team captain for the first American Women's Everest Expedition,
which was a climb that was taking place in two
thousand two that was sponsored by the Ford Motor Company,
and so between Kilimanjaro in two thousand two, I had
climbed the highest peak on six of the seven continents
and then Everest was the last remaining one for me,
(11:39):
which we didn't get there. In two thousand two, the
first American women's ever se expedition was thwarted by bad
weather and we were forced to turn around just about
two seventy ft from the top. So it was a
great learning experience and it was, you know, a mountain
where I learned so much about myself, about managing risk,
about out facing fear, about the dangers of complacency, about
(12:05):
how to communicate with a team when the you know
what hits the fan, right when there's just pure chaos
and you're surrounded by unpredictability and you know, shifting and changing,
and how do you communicate with a team to get
everybody to feel confident to move forward. So I learned
(12:26):
so much on that on that expedition, even though we
didn't make it. What was the decision like to turn
around so close from the top. So whenever sexpedition takes
about two months, so and it's not just two months
of work on the mountain it's the months and months
of training. It's the all the time that goes into
(12:48):
fundraising and the logistics and playing the team together and
working with the sponsors. I mean, there's months and months
and months of hard work that goes into this before
you even get to the mountain. And then you get
to the mountain and you're the mountain for two months.
You're out there on the route, you know, fighting your
way up the mountain, and you miss it by less
(13:08):
than three hundred feet. Right this mountain is twenty nine
thousand thirty ft and you turn around two hundred and
seventy ft from the top, and it feels I mean,
first of all, I felt disappointed, of course, but I
felt disappointed in myself. I felt disappointed for my team.
I felt disappointed for Ford, our sponsors, and it just
(13:30):
was hard to have such a high profile failure because
we were the first American women's ever st expedition, we
had a ton of media coverage, and thank god, this
was before social media, but we did the whole morning
show circuit and the evening news anchors interviewed us, and
four hundred fifty media outlets followed the client. People were
doing live updates from the mountain and then we missed
(13:51):
the top by what feels like, you know, spitting distance.
So you have to go back to all the same
TV shows and talk about what how and in it
just it's hard to talk about this big failure. Right
we had this goal and we didn't achieve it, and
then we were the butt of Jay Lenos opening monologue joke,
and it's hard not to internalize that failure. And I
(14:14):
definitely internalized it for a while because everyone just talked
about the fact that we didn't make it right. Nobody
seemed to focus on the fact that we were the
first team of American women to even try something like this.
It was an altitude record for every single member of
the team. That everybody was so focused on this failure.
And so I would love to say, you know, it
didn't bother me. We tried our best, but it really
(14:37):
hit me very hard because, like I said, I felt
like I disappointed so many people, and it took me
a while to kind of process the whole failure and
to really realize that failure is one thing that happens
to at one point in time, that's all it is.
(14:58):
It's one thing that happens to you at one point
in time, and it doesn't define you, and it certainly
doesn't determine your legacy if you you know, if you
refuse to let it determine your legacy. And so initially
I was really afraid to go back to the mountain
because I thought, what if I fail again? What if
I don't make it again? Will I ever find another sponsor?
(15:19):
Will I ever find find people that want to climb
with me again? You know, what is this going to
do to my reputation and within the sporting you know,
within the industry, within the mountaineering industry. And but that's
what I had to realize. Okay, hang on, I can
either spend the rest of my life wondering what if?
Or I can just get over this fear, and I
(15:39):
can get over this feeling of disappointment right and feeling
like I failed everyone, And I can get past that
and I can get back out there on that mountain
and try it again. And if I don't make it
the second time, there's a third time, there's a fourth time.
I mean, no one sets the rules as far as
how many times you can attempt something that's really hard.
(15:59):
And the other thing is that I started to think about,
Like Sir Edmund Hillary intends Ignorgay right, So anyone that
was just a little something about the history Amount Everest
will know those names. Sir Edmund Hilly intends Ignora were
the first guys ever some Amount Everest back in n
But what people don't think about is the fact that
there were dozens of climbers who tried and failed before
(16:23):
those two made it to the summit. But Sir Edmund
Hilly intends Ignorga right. The famous guys who made it,
those guys had all the data, all the research, all
the information from those previous climbers. So if those other
guys hadn't had the guts to try it first, you know,
maybe Sir Edmund Hillary intends in Orgy would never have
made it. So that's how I started looking at failure
(16:44):
as failure is not necessarily something negative. And what I'm
doing when I pushed my boundaries, when I try really
hard things, I might be paving the way for other
people to go on and achieve great things in their lives,
even if I didn't have the outcome that I wanted
at the time. And so I started to look at
(17:06):
that American Women's everse expedition is maybe that's something that
will get more women interested in the sport of mountaineering.
Maybe that will get more women to actually go out
to these mountains and and try them and take more risks.
And maybe it's not mountains. Maybe it maybe what we
did inspired women to try whatever sport or starting a
company or whatever it is in life that they were
(17:28):
feeling fearful of. Maybe what we did will help them
get past that fear. Right. So that's how I changed
my perspective on failure. And now for a quick break.
You've talked a lot about the power of networking and
the power of connection and relationships. How did these women
find you? Because you said they asked you to be
(17:50):
the captain? And then do you still keep in touch
with them? So the number of women in the sport
back in two thousand one and was far fewer than
it is today. There weren't that many women in the sports.
So we kind of, you know, a lot of us
kind of knew each other. And I had connected with
this one woman named Lynn Prebble who lived in southern Colorado. Oh,
(18:13):
we connected. I just remembered how we connected. So I'm
five foot four, Lynn is four ft nine and she
was going to climb this mountain into back called show
oh you, And they didn't make down suits small enough
to fit people like us. And I had found this
old pair of men's extra extra small down bibbs at
(18:36):
a used gear store in Seattle one day. So someone
told her like she was looking for for down down
bibbs or a down suit or something like that, and
someone connected her with me, and they were like, I
know another woman in the sport who's really small. You
should connect with Alice and Levin. So she she emailed
me and she said, is there anyway I could rent
(18:57):
those down bibbs from you? Can I just pay you
and borrowed them? And I was like, you're not gonna
pay me, just just take them and you know, come
back alive and make sure I get them back. So
that's how we initially connected. And then it's just like
one of those things where I started talking to people
when I wanted to plan various trips and on all
(19:18):
my breaks from grad school, I wanted to go to
a different mountain and have a different experience. So I'd
ask people, who do you know you know who's a
woman who's you know fairly experienced, and who you would
want to hang out in a tent with. That's the thing, right,
because you're on every steer on the mountain for two months.
You you want someone that you would want to spend
two months in intent with. And it's interesting when you're
(19:40):
putting together these teams because you want to find the
perfect mix of people who are skilled and experienced, but
we are also going to be really good team players,
because you don't want to be high up on a
dangerous mountain with the best best climbers if they don't
care about the team. And on the flip side, you
don't want to be up there with people who are
(20:00):
really fun and cool, you know, and you have a
great sense of humor if they don't have the skills
to be successful in that environment. So you want to
find people who are a mix of both. And like
I said, back in two thousand, two thousand one, there
weren't that many women in the sport, and so we
all just kind of got connected through friends of friends,
and that's how the trip really came together. So what
(20:21):
made you go back eight years later? I mean, there
must have been other points during that time that you
thought of going back, or what was it. I did
think about it, but I was so afraid of that
failure again. And I mean, I'm embarrassed to even say
that that held me back for so many years, but
I will say it because I'm sure there's people listening
to this that have had disappointments and failures that are
(20:44):
holding them back. And I don't think I realized how
much that fear of failure was holding me back. I
always had an excuse. Oh, I don't have the funding
you know lined up. Oh I don't I can't take
the time off of work. Oh I have too much
debt all you know, all of these convenient excuses. And
then a friend of mine, a really dear friend of
(21:05):
mine named mag Brita Owen, ended up passing away very unexpectedly.
She was thirty seven years old, and I thought she
was one of the bravest people I've ever met in
my entire life. And she was always trying these crazy things,
writing learning how to ride a motorcycle and riding across
country and skydiving or whatever like. She just seemed completely
(21:25):
fearless to me, and she was one of the first
people I saw when I got back from the mountain
in two thousand two after our failed Everest attempt, and
I remember we had coffee in New York and she said, right,
so you're gonna go back next year and try it again, right?
And I was like, uh, no, girlfriend, not going back
next year to try it again. And she said, okay,
(21:47):
then you'll go the year after. I said no, I'm
not going back to that mountain. Well after she passed away,
I just thought, Okay, I want to do something to
honor this amazing woman and her courageous spirit. And so
I decided to go back to Mount Everest just a
couple of months after Meg passed because I wanted to
(22:08):
do something to honor her, because I was always so
inspired by her courage and her willingness to try new
things and her carefree attitude about failure. Wealth I try
this and I'm not good at it, who cares? It's
I'm gonna, you know, enjoy the journey. And so I
I actually engraved her name in my ice acs and
I went back to the mountain because I wanted to
(22:28):
feel like she was coming with me. And I thought,
if I have her name on my ice ax, I'm
gonna feel like she's with me every step of the way,
and I think, you know, we all have women in
our lives that inspire us. We all have women who
are cheerleaders for us. And I thought, well, even though
Meg isn't around anymore, I felt like she was always
my cheerleader. So I even though she wasn't around physically,
(22:50):
I felt like she was with me in spirit. And
that kind of gave me the courage to go back
because I thought she would be so disappointed in me
if she knew that I wasn't going back because I
was afraid to pale. So that was kind of what
motivated me to go back again in two thousand and ten.
And Alison, I don't know if you know, but Mega
(23:11):
is a very dear friend of mine in college. She
was my college roommate and so she used to be
a very big part of my life too. And wow, yeah,
so when I read your book, I was like, it
was eerie because I didn't really realize that until Yeah. Yeah.
It's funny because when we started this podcast, I was thinking, Oh,
I wonder if Sam would have known magg at Harvard. Yeah, Well,
(23:33):
she's so amazing, right, wasn't she just like such an
incredible spirit, The spirit she had about her. So one
of the things that struck me about reading about your
second attempt at Mount Everest was that you this time
weren't part of a team, and so your reaction really
was so different. Can you share that with us. I'm
(23:55):
glad you asked about that, because it really clarified to
me what a team is so before my second attempt
on ever. So okay, So, as you know, in two
thousand two, we were the American Women's Everset Expedition. We
went to this mountain as a team. We were sponsored
by Ford, We were climbing as a team. In two
(24:18):
thousand and ten, when I went back, I was one
person on a permit with eight other people, and I
just assumed, Okay, this group that I'm with, this is
my team. But what I learned is that just because
you're doing something with a group of people at the
same time, even if you all have the same goal,
(24:40):
it doesn't make you a team. It just makes you
a group of people doing something at the same time.
And I think that's really different from being a team.
And I think what makes the group a team is
when the people involved care as much about helping the
people around them achieve the goal as I care about
(25:00):
achieving it themselves. And I really missed missed that sense
of team camaraderie that we had in two thousand two.
When I went back in two thousand and ten, there
were some people in the group that were really good teammates,
but there are others that seemed to be very self involved,
that didn't seem to care too much about helping the
people around them. And in their defense, they didn't sign
(25:23):
up to be a team. They signed up to be,
you know, they signed up for a permit spot, you know,
to climb the mountain. But to me, it should be
automatic that when you see somebody who's having a tough time,
you stop and you ask what you can do to help.
And I also really learned that just a few kind
(25:43):
words of encouragement shared with somebody who's struggling can completely
change the outcome of a situation, right, I would argue,
could completely change somebody's life. And I missed that sense
of team camaraderie when I went back in two thousand ten,
and I learned that I don't ever want to be
in a remote extreme environment with a group. I wanted
(26:04):
to be with the team. I wanted to be with
people who I know are looking out for me, and
of course I would be looking out for them as well,
and it's just a hard way to learn that lesson.
So what was it like when you returned you you
talked about a letdown. Yeah, So, I think because I
had internalized this failure from two thousand two and had
(26:29):
so much like emotional build up to going back in
two thousand and ten, that I expected when I got
to the top of the mountain that it would just
be the greatest feeling ever and all this emotion and
all this hard work and everything, this is it. It's
(26:49):
this is paying off. I finally did it, and I
didn't feel like that at all. I got to the
top of the mountain and I looked around and I thought, okay, well,
we actually didn't even have good us that day because
we also had bad weather in two thousand ton on
some day. But I just remember feeling like, Okay, this
(27:09):
is it. It was felt a little anti climactic, and
I think the reason it felt that way to me
and I have friends that have somebody that to this
day will say, this was the greatest day of my life.
And these are people who haven't been through you know,
the birth of a child, you know, they've been married.
You know, there's other days that certain people think are
important in their lives. And these people were saying standing
(27:31):
on top of that mountain was the best, most important
day in my life. And for me, I just felt like, Okay,
I'm just standing on top of a really tall pile
of rock and ice. That's all this is. This is
a really tall pile of rock and ice, and here
I am staying on top of it. And I realized
that standing on top of that mountain, it doesn't change anything, right,
I didn't feel like it was going to change me,
(27:52):
and it certainly wasn't going to impact the world in
any positive way. Um. And I realized that this thing
that had haunted me, you know, this this goal that
haunted me for so many years, really wasn't important after all.
Now that said, what was important was, of course, the
lessons that you learn along the way, right when you're
(28:14):
fighting to get up there. And so I was really
glad that I went back the second time because I
didn't have to always like wonder, what if you know,
what if I went back? Because I knew what I knew?
What if I knew what that what if was. But
I was grateful for the experience because I realized that
you have to push past the point of being uncomfortable
(28:35):
sometimes when you when you have set these goals that
feel like they're going to be a ridiculous, hairy stretch,
you have to learn to keep pushing when it feels
really uncomfortable and that that's okay. And I think the
the crazy thing is on on the mountain. The higher
you get on the mountain, the closer you are to
the summit, but the more uncomfortable you become because the
(28:57):
higher up in elevation, you know, the worse your altitude
headache is going to get, the more sick to your
stomach you're going to feel. So you know, as you
get closer to your goal, you're going to feel worse
and worse and worse. What are some of the lessons
you've taken away from your other expeditions. We've really focused
on one a lot, but you've done so many things
And the thing to me is that like, you keep
(29:18):
doing it and they're really hard, and to like, what
what do you keep learning? What keeps driving you to
go back and do more and seek other adventures? For me,
I just love to learning. Even when I go back
to mountains that I've already climbed, it's still new because
sometimes the route is different, the team is different, the
weather is different. I mean, I can go back to
the same mountain multiple times and it feels different each time.
(29:41):
So for me, I just like learning and just also
reminding myself that I can. I can keep going even
when I feel like quitting, right, because you can always
take one more step. So you've been able to really
parlay these lessons into lessons you've taken back to the
business world, and you've become one of the top corporate
(30:02):
speakers in the world. How did that happen? You know,
it's funny, I ask myself the same thing. So I
it's I'm represented by one of the world's largest bureaus.
It's called Coupler Speakers, And in two thousand nineteen, the
CEO told me that I surpassed Jim Lovell from a
Pole thirteen as the number one speaker in the thirty
five year history of the bureau. So I'll tell you
(30:24):
there's a couple of things. First of all, I think
the key is when when you're on stage, So delivering
a good talk is just one part of it. But
when you're on stage, you got to remember it's not
about you. It's about the audience, and so the story
can't be about you. It has to be about about them.
And what are you going to deliver to them? This
is my mindset. I think, what am I going to
(30:45):
deliver to them that's gonna make them feel like they
were glad that they just spent that hour with me
or forty five minutes however long it was. Because time
is our most valuable resource. You're never gonna get that
that and I want people to walk out feeling like,
oh my god, I'm so glad I sat in on
that presentation. There's nowhere else I would have rather been
than in that room with Alison Living. So before every speech,
(31:06):
that's what's going through my head. What am I going
to deliver to this audience so that they feel like
there's nowhere else they would rather be. So that's part one, right,
It's just and feeling relatable to the audience. And because
I remember being in corporate America, being on the audience
side of it, and I would hear some speakers, maybe
an Olympic athlete, which is amazing to be an Olympian.
But I would hear the stories about from the time
(31:29):
I was six years old. You know, my family moved
me here so I could train in the Olympic village.
And I was super disciplined, and I worked out four
hours in the morning, whatever trained four hours in the morning,
and trained four hours in the evening, and only eight
these things. And I had a nutritionist, and I had
a coach, and I had and and that's really admirable.
But I'm sitting here thinking, okay, like I'm just trying
(31:49):
to get through my day in my cube every day
without murdering the person sitting across from me. So I
just can't relate to any of that because I didn't
have this training, you know, all this stuff growing up.
And so I kept in mind, like I want to
be relatable. I want people to know I'm not an
elite athlete. I'm just a person who with this passion,
(32:11):
who puts one ft in front of the other. Right,
I'm I'm never going to be the best and the
fastest and the strongest. So I have trouble relating to
people who get on stage who say I am the best,
I was the fastest, I was the strongest, because I'm like,
that's never going to be me. So I think being
relatable is one thing, but the other thing is just
it's the extras too, that you do when you're a
(32:32):
corporate speaker. I remember early in my career when clients
would call and they'd be like, hey, I know your
speeches until two pm, but can you come down for
the seven am breakfast? And I'd be like, oh, you know,
I'd thinking like I need to sleep, like I'm going
to pass on breakfast, and then my agent would be like, yeah,
Peyton Manning went down for the breakfast, you know, and
and you said no. And so realizing like doing those
(32:54):
extras and making sure the client knows how important they
are too, because I'm thinking, I just I really need
sleep so I can be my best when I'm on stage.
But what they hear when I say I don't want
to go to the breakfast, what they hear is, oh,
I guess we're not that important to her. And so
just being the person that says yes, being the person
(33:14):
that makes sure that the A V team and the
production team feel appreciated, and realizing you know, it's again,
it's not about me, It's about everybody else that's here,
So I think that, um, that helps. But also I mean,
you have to be able to tell your story in
a way that people can relate to. So that's part
(33:35):
of it too. But I feel like we all have
a story to share and you can never get it
wrong when you're telling your story right. If it's your story,
no one's gonna be like Sam, like, that's not what
happened to do that day in junior high. So it's
your story. Tell it in the way that feels authentic
to you, and if you're that person, I think it
(33:55):
will resonate well with the audiences. But also think keeping
a sense of humor as important. And now for a
quick break, Alison, A lot of people want to be
signed by a speaker's bureau, but you were signed by
one of the top ones. Was it easy? How did
you do it? So? I have been trying for about
a year to find representation from a speaker's bureau and
(34:20):
I wasn't having any less. So it was after the
first American Women's Everest Expedition and I was approaching these
bureaus saying, I really like to be out on the
speaking circuit and here's my story, and they would say, okay,
so you tried to climb out Everyston didn't make it
like lots of people done that, and they said, we
we actually represent people who have have climb Mount Everest,
(34:42):
so we think that's a little bit of an easier
sell than trying to sell someone who didn't climb out Everston.
So I was hold calling Bureaus. I was trying to
meet with them in person. Said that maybe if I
can get in front of them, I could convince them,
but Bureaus just kept saying, we don't meet with speakers
that we don't represent. And I'm thinking, well, if you
don't meet with me first, how you know if you
(35:03):
want to represent me? And then how you know it's
just the chicken before the egg or the egg before
the chicken. I was like, how does this work? And
nobody was willing to talk to me, and I finally
I called Kepler Speakers and they had heard of me
because I had spoken at this um Forbes Executive Women's Forum,
(35:23):
and somebody from there called Kepler and said, we just
heard this woman speak, can you get her for us?
And so I had had one interaction with them, like
they called me to get my information, but they never
followed up or anything. So I called them and I
completely lied and said, hey, I'm going to be in
the DC area, which I wasn't, but I said, I'm
gonna be in the DC area. Can I just stop
(35:44):
by for five or ten minutes and say hello? And
they said, sure, you can stop by. I mean, we
love to hear from news speakers, so come on and
you can stop by. So now I'm like burning all
my frequent Flyer miles to buy a plane ticket to
d C to pretend like I, you know, was going in.
And so I studied up on every single agent I
got online. I looked at all the agents profiles. I
(36:06):
memorized something about each one of them. So when I
walked in that conference room and shook their hand, Oh, hey, Elliott,
are you going to horse races this weekend? Because I
knew he liked horse racing and somebody else went to
University of Maryland. So I shook his hand and I
was like, hey, Billy like go tirps. So I knew
something about every single person that I met, so I thought, okay, this,
this will help me. And then I gave them my
(36:27):
pitch and Jim Kepler, who was the head of Kepler
speakers said, oh, you know what that was. That was
really good. I think we could, you know, maybe do
some work with you. And I thought, oh great, and
I really got my hopes up. I thought, oh, I
nailed it, you know, I grudged it. And then I
never heard from them, and months and months and months
went by, not a peep from them, and then finally
(36:50):
I get a phone call from their top agent at
the time, this guy Gary McManus. And he called and said, um, hey, Allison,
Gary McManus from Kepler. I think you were in our
office about nine months ago. And I said yes, yes, yes,
and he said I have this opportunity for you that
I think you would be perfect for. And I said,
oh great, you know, tell me about it. And he said, well,
(37:10):
before I tell you about it, what are the chances
you could get yourself to Vegas before tomorrow morning at
seven am. This is like a Wednesday evening. And I
was like, um, and he said yeah. He said, we
have five thousand people at this conference in Mandalay Bay,
and the speaker for tomorrow morning, he said, it's the
final day of the event, and the keynote speaker in
(37:30):
the morning just canceled. And so I think it's about
six o'clock Pacific time, and there is a ten thirty
pm flight that could get me to Vegas. And I said, well,
there's ten thirty flight. I can get on that. You know,
I can be there by twelve thirty, be at the
hotel by twelve thirty one am. And he said, great,
book the flight, Call the client, tell the introduce yourself,
(37:54):
tell them that you will be there. And I said great, great.
So I'm super excited. It's like my first chance, right,
my first chance to actually get on stage. So I
called the client and I said, hey, Jeff, it's Alison Leviv.
I'm gonna be replacing your speaker tomorrow morning. Uh, can
you just give me an idea of what you want
(38:14):
me to focus on in my speech? And he goes,
I don't give a f what you focus on. I
just want my audience to not be piste off that
Carolyne kept here is a no show. So Carolyne kept here.
People remember if you remember the show The Apprentice, which
was really big back in the mid two thousands, you
(38:37):
know Donald Trump show, right, and Caroline was the executive
vice president of the Trump Organization, Right, she was, and
she was the one in the boardroom with him on
the show, the one with the short blonde hair, and
so it was a hit show at the time, and
she was supposed to be the keynote speaker on the
closing day, and he's like, I don't I just wanted
to not be piste off that Caroline is a no show, Like, okay,
(38:59):
got it. So get to the hotel by about one
o'clock in the morning, and I stayed up the whole
entire night, and I crafted this presentation around being a
clutch player. And what I mean by being a clutch
player is being the person that people know they can
count on, being the person that comes through when they
(39:19):
say they're going to come through, being the person that
always delivers when they say they're going to deliver. So
I stayed up the whole night and did not go
to bed for one minute, and I crafted this presentation,
and then I photoshopped Caroline capture and Donald Trump into
my slides and I had the year fired video and
and also so I get there in the morning and
(39:43):
I do the presentation. I end up getting a standing
ovation and the meeting planner comes up to me afterwards
and he goes, okay. He goes, first of all, when
did you put together that presentation? Because I know you
got here at one o'clock in the morning. And I said, well,
I stayed up the whole night. I haven't gone to
bed for one minute. I've been up since since I arrived.
(40:04):
I didn't go to bed at all. I worked on
it the whole night. And he said, I can't believe
you would do that. And I said, of course I
would do that. You were counting on me. You had
five thousand people in this audience that we're counting on
having a good speaker. Of course I would do that.
He goes, okay, who are you? And he said, no offense,
I've never heard of you before. I want to know
(40:25):
why no speakers bureaus have ever recommended you to me.
He said, because you just got like the biggest standing
ovation and and and so I just came clean and
I said, well, Jeff, I'm not anyone anyone's ever heard
of like you. There's no reason you would have heard
heard of me before. I said, And I gotta tell you,
I've been trying to get on these speakers bureaus radar.
(40:49):
I've been trying to get them to pay attention to
me for close to a year and I can't even
get anybody to return my phone calls. And he said,
I book more speakers than any meeting planner in the country,
and I'm going to call every speaker's bureau that I
have ever worked with and tell them what you did
here today. And he did, and he got on the
phone and he called every major speakers bureau and then
(41:12):
my phone's ringing off the hook from Washington Speakers Bureau
and leading authorities and Harry Walker, I mean, everyone's calling.
And so he really helped me launch my career, and
from that time on, I was super, super busy. And
the lesson for me is that I want to share
with people is that you need to treat every opportunity
(41:34):
as if it could be your one big break. Treat
every opportunity because you could. You know, some people could
maybe go into that situation and be like, look, I'm
the last minute replacement. The expectations are going to be low.
You know, I'm sure whatever I do, they're gonna be
it'll be fine, because they know I just just got
in at one o'clock in the morning. I mean, what
do they expected me, But instead I just wanted to
(41:55):
over deliver and treat it like it could be that
big break that I was for and it was. It
was that one big break. And then then the next
year I was super busy. I've been busy since. But
the funny thing is that I ended up signing an
exclusive contract with Kepler Speakers. Okay, it's time for our
speed round, Allison, where we're going to ask you quick
(42:16):
questions and you can give quick answers. What book are
you reading right now, Allison? Right now, I am reading
a book called Roar by Michael Clinton, and it's all
about how to roar into the second half of your
life and realizing that middle age is like a new
you know, a new lease on life, and it's never
(42:36):
too late to create a new life and create a
new career and try new things. And it's really inspiring
me to look at the second half of my life
as like just the beginning. What's the next adventure you're
going to tackle? Oh, the next adventure I'm tackling is um.
I'm working on a documentary film. It's a first for me.
I've never worked on a documentary before. But it's about
the first female Serpa to ever summit Mount Everest, and
(42:59):
she was amazing role model. She unfortunately died on the mountain,
but um, she broke through a lot of barriers. So
it's working on that documentary right now. What is your
morning routine? My morning routine is to wake up and
cuddle with my dogs. I have two Labrador Retrievers, and
starting the day with a dog cuddle, to me is
just the best thing, Like, no matter what happens during
(43:21):
the day, I got that dog cuddle in, it's all
gonna be okay. What was the last personal challenge you experienced.
The last personal challenge I experienced, I would say, Um,
I think probably just dealing with the fact that we're
(43:44):
all so remote with COVID and feeling super disconnected with
people who are important to me, and then feeling like
I haven't done what I need to be doing to
help take care of other people because I feel like
I've been kind of inwardly focused. So for me, that's
been challenge and something that I've had to grapple with
and think about and how to be conscious of the
fact that even though we're all dealing with our own
(44:05):
challenges and need to make sure to continue to reach
out to other people who are important and put the
time into those relationships. So that's something I regret. Over
the past year, I feel like I've been to andwardly focused.
And now we'll go to lou for our male perspective
and my research. It was very brief. I didn't see
any kids. You know, traditionally extraordinary women like you exist
(44:30):
as moms. You know, dog mom doesn't count. I'm just kidding.
So I'll tell you a little bit. Is um, both
my parents suffered from extreme, extreme mental illness, and my
dad is bipolar and has been controlled on medications since
he was forty. My mom suffered from extreme depression where
(44:53):
she didn't want to get out of her room every
day until the kids, like we got up, got you know,
got ourselves stressed, and got ourselves off to school. And
so I think as a child, like with two parents,
I like that suffered from mental illness. I felt like
the parent a lot of the time, and so when
I got to adulthood, I kind of felt like I
(45:15):
needed a break from parenting. And I just feel like
I've been parenting my whole life, trying to deal with
my both my parents situations and their diseases. Their illnesses
were very, very different and manifested themselves in different ways.
But by the time I became an adult, I just thought,
I'm tired. I'm kind of tired of parenting, and so
(45:36):
maybe I can take all the love and passion and
good energy and put it into other areas, right instead
of um being parents. And I'm so glad you asked
that question, because I think a lot of people wonder
but they don't ask it, And I'm glad you asked
it because we need to talk about this stuff, and
(45:56):
we need to talk about mental illness. I know, Sam,
you and I have just watched that the Marty Fish
documentary Breaking Point, which was amazing. But when I was
growing up, people didn't talk about mental illness, and so
I was like, why doesn't my mom come out of
her room? Why doesn't she turn the lights on? Like
what is going on? And you know, as I got older,
I realized what was going on, and it just felt
(46:17):
like a lot to take on as a kid. And
so by the time I got to adulthood, I'm like,
I'm tired, I'm tired of parenting, and so I'm just kinna,
I need a break from it. And I just thought,
I've learned all these amazing lessons about resilience and courage
and determination, and maybe there's ways that you can share
your wisdom and insight with the world without having to
(46:38):
have your own kids. So I'm really glad that you
asked that question, Amy, I could have listened to Allison
for hours, Like, I mean, there were so many things
that I know we both wanted to ask her that
we never even got to. Oh, I know, like I
wanted to ask her more about her personal life outside
the expeditions and all of the amazing things she has done,
(47:00):
Like does she have a personal life. I mean, I'm
sure she does, but like we didn't really get to
touch on that. And I think, I mean, it's really
hard when you talk to somebody who's taken on these
monumental challenges, Like it's just hard for someone like need
to even understand it. Did you run a marathon? Amy,
I've run a few marathons, actually, but like that's not
like somebody Everest, so like to me, it's similar, like
(47:24):
I have no desire to run a marathon or climb
out everything. So the fact that you've run marathons seems
like you're closer to being her than I would ever
you were a Division one tennis player. So to me,
like that is like this grueling endurance adventure that lasted
for years and years and years, right, Like we've all
done very hard things, but I just think with Alison,
(47:46):
like it's like the hardest thing for me to understand
Sam was that she didn't start doing this until she
was in her early thirties. Like that is wild. You know,
she's like the July a child of of of climbing.
I mean I had to find when she talked about
her childhood, especially when you asked about like her dad.
I mean, I thought it was really fascinating because it
(48:09):
reminded me of reading Andre Agassi is Open and you
realize like Andregon would not have been a champion if
it weren't for his abusive father. Really, and it made
me think, like would she be this this adventure grand
slam person if she didn't have parents who were so tough.
(48:29):
It really is interesting how how so much of our
childhood and our environment shapes who we become. I mean
it does right, like it's everything. It stays with you forever,
which is something that we should do an entire podcast up. Yes.
I mean I also just don't want to leave without
mentioning her speaking career, which is extraordinary. I love that
(48:50):
story about how she got herself to d C to
have that meeting with her speakers Bureau, and then how
she You and I are very similar to that in
terms of the five thirty at night. If we got
a call if I thirty at nights saying there's a
huge opportunity, can you be across the country by seven am?
Like you and I are probably the only people I
(49:12):
know who would immediately say yes. I was completely thinking
the same thing when she was telling us that story.
I was like, Sam and I would do that. Thanks
for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
We would so appreciate if you would leave of you
wherever you get your podcasts, and of course connect with
(49:33):
us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company,
The Riveter at The Riveter dot c o in Sam's company,
park Place Payments at park place payments dot com. Thanks
to our producer Stacy Para, our social media manager Phoebe
crane Fest, and our male perspective Lou Burns
Hosts And Creators
Samantha Ettus
Amy Nelson
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