July 1, 2021 • 16 mins
In the second episode of our Author Snack Series, we’re sharing a bite-sized interview with Tanya Selvaratnam - artist, Emmy-nominated producer and author. We talk to Tanya about her new book, “Assume Nothing: A Story of Intimate Violence” about her abusive relationship with then New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman. We hear about her struggle to come forward, how she reclaimed her feeling of safety, and why bystanders need to become upstanders.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In this Author Snack series, we speak with author Tanya Silveratnam,
who just released Assume Nothing, a Story of Intimate Violence,
about her abusive relationship with former New York Attorney General
Eric Schneiderman. So, Tanya, one of the things that struck
me in reading your book is that this had never
(00:27):
happened to you before, And it also made me think
if he wasn't so powerful, it wouldn't have happened this time.
I had truly never been in an abusive relationship before,
and when it first started happening, it was so shocking
because of whom my abuser presented as publicly as an
advocate for women's rights, as a progressive hero, as a
(00:50):
liberal champion, and also because he had what seemed like
a friendly relationship with his ex wife. So I thought
that the abuse was evict to me because it started
happening when the national spotlight was increasing on him and
there was more pressure on him and his drinking increased.
But then later I found out that, in fact, I
(01:11):
was part of a very long pattern of his abusing women.
How did you find that out? It was about a
month after the relationship ended. I have a friend who's
an investigative reporter who had come with me to get
my things from his place when he was not there,
and within twenty four hours she texted me saying, I
(01:32):
have some info. Can you talk. She had connected with
an old family friend of hers who happened to know
one of Eric's previous girlfriends and asked casually, did you
ever hear anything about Eric from this woman? And immediately
he launched into talking about the abuse that sounded eerily
(01:53):
similar to mine. And although at the time I had
no interest in coming forward and share my story, I
really wanted to get on with my life. When I
found out that there was this other woman who was
almost a decade before me, I thought, I wondered, how
many more are there in between and before? So that's
how I found out. It was like the universe sent
(02:15):
me the sign. And I'm still kind of amazed at
that cosmic convergence. And it was painful to think about
coming forward, but I also knew that I had to.
When you had this book come out again, you didn't
want to be known as the sexual assault victim of
(02:35):
you know, New York's Attorney General. So how did you
reconcile that and what has happened since I wrote the book,
because I had so many people reaching out to me
sharing their own stories of intimate violence, and I wondered,
why aren't we able to talk about this? You know,
why aren't we able to talk about these difficult experiences
(02:56):
that are so common? When you hear the statistics that
one in four women will experience some form of intimate
partner violence in their lifetimes. I really wanted to, you know,
as I say the book, in the book, split the
world open by sharing our stories, because by sharing our stories,
we take the shame and the stigma out of it.
Because the shame and the stigma leads to the secrecy,
(03:17):
which prevents us from healing and also prevents us from
finding solutions. So I wanted to shift the perception of
what a victim looks like. It's uncomfortable for me to
keep talking about the subject, but I also hope it
helps people. Were you ever physically afraid after you told
your story? I was terrified because my abuser was the
(03:39):
top law enforcement officer in New York State and until
I came forward, and even right after I did. I
believe that you can't anticipate how much someone will snap
when they feel their power being taken away, and because
I've had many friends who have been threatened with physical violence,
(04:01):
with having their careers and reputations ruined by powerful abusers.
But I really had to kind of put my faith
in the universe and surround myself with friends and loved
ones in a community of support, my coven um, so
that I felt protected by them, that they would have
my back. There's such a contrast between how independent you
(04:25):
are as a person in the situation you found yourself in.
How did you reclaim your feeling of safety of moving
around in the world safely. It took time, It's still
taking time because I was uncomfortable being visible. I was
uncomfortable being out in public. But that's where the sisterhood
(04:46):
and friends are so important and played such a role
in my recovery by surrounding me with love and also
giving me opportunities to find joy. I'm also really grateful
that I'm an artist, that I could write my way
out of the darkness, and that I could experience art
and that helps me heal. So those are just some
(05:08):
ways that I found a way to go from being
a victim to a survivor to a thriver and it
is an ongoing process. Has Eric responded to the book.
He has not responded to the book, but it was
soon after the book came out that an investigation into
his actions was concluded and he agreed to discipline by consent.
(05:32):
He agreed to um confirm the veracity of the allegations
against not just myself but to other women who were
part of the original investigation by Jane Mayer and Ronan Pharaoh.
He was disbarred for a year while he has to
undergo mental health counseling. So I take that in part
as a response, and how did that make you feel?
(05:55):
I felt like I could My shoulders went down, I
felt like I could breathe. I felt like I could
walk a little bit lighter. Do I feel that justice
was served. I felt that the justice was served based
on the facts present in the investigation. But I feel
that more needs to be done because disbarment for a year,
(06:19):
while it sends a strong message that the State of
New York takes egregious personal conduct very seriously, I feel
that in some ways he's still getting away with it
because he can get on with his lives while his
victims have to deal with the trauma for the rest
of their lives. So there might be other ways that
(06:43):
ah that justice can happen, and I'm considering those ways now.
One of the things that you share in the book
is how many friends and family members kind of noticed
certain warning signs and we're uncomfortable with his behavior to
to you in hindsight. Was there anything they could have
done to help you get out of their sooner? Part
(07:07):
of the reason why I wrote the book is to
encourage bystanders to be upstanders. My friends supported me as
much as they could based on what I was telling them,
but because I wasn't opening up to them for a
long time about the intimate violence. Uh, it's a difficult
thing to talk to a friend about when you suspect
(07:29):
that they might be going through abuse. So I feel
that friends can be a lifeline to a victim and
don't be shy of the conversation, be non judgmental, be
a good listener, and also have resources at your disposal
that you can pass along to your friend in case
(07:50):
they are in an abusive relationship and need to find
ways to get out. What kind of resources would use
There are so many organizations and help lines that serve
different communities, and I'm very proud that the book has
an appendix with dozens of organizations listed. I had a
friend who did ask me tough questions that elicited responses
(08:15):
that I did not know I was going to give.
One question was does he hit you? And when I
said yes, she knew that she was not equipped to
take me past that point, and so she asked if
I would be willing to speak with the domestic violence
expert who was a friend of hers, and I said yes,
And after she connected me with that domestic violence expert,
(08:36):
then I was able to recognize what I had been
going through. And I also was able to craft a
safety plan with her help and guidance, and she has
remained a close ally and confidante and friend to this day.
Your mom's reaction to you coming forward was quite strong.
(08:56):
What was that like for you? I was sad, but
I also recognize the pressure it put on her to
have her daughter so public in that way, and also
it was triggering for her. You know, she herself experienced
(09:17):
horrific domestic violence at the hands of my father, so
I think it made her sad too that it had
happened to me. But I hope that mothers and daughters
are able to engage with each other in conversations about this.
I feel really gratified when I hear from women that
they bought the book for themselves and for their mothers
(09:38):
so that they could finally have the difficult conversations that
they were never able to have before. I'm also really
happy when I hear that men have bought the book
and are reading it and are able to understand like
their own behaviors, their relationships with their parents, and also
to be able to talk to their daughters and their
sons about these issues. So where do you go from
(10:00):
here in terms of what's next for you and is
this something you're going to continue in terms of advocacy
work for victims of intimate violence or are you going
to go back to your roots in the arts. Well,
fortunately the two are converging, so I will continue to
be an advocate. I will make sure to channel Naomi
(10:23):
Osaka when I need to and take breaks because it
does wear on me to talk about the subject so much.
But I think it's also important to spread the message
of the book, which is to make peace and kindness
more exciting than violence, which is to prioritize consent um
consent must be requested and it must be obtained, and
(10:46):
to encourage mutual pleasure. And when I say that, the
two my my work in the arts and my work
around the subject are converging. I am the senior advisor
for gender justice narratives for the pop Cull your collaborative,
So I am finding ways to shift the narrative waters
around gender justice, which is not just about women, but
(11:07):
tied to all forms of oppression, to immigration, l g B,
t q A, I plus rights, disability, immigrants, UM and
and and racism. So working on that. And then also
the book is being turned into a television series, which
which is an unexpected outcome. I did not plan for
(11:28):
it to be turned into a series, but I was
very fortunate that ABC, Signature and Disney Television with Joanna
Coles as executive producer, option the book and are turning
it into a series because then it means it will
reach a whole different audience than the book. Than the
book will In terms of your personal life today, how
did the relationship impact how you're viewing your future relationships
(11:54):
and are you in a relationship now. I'm not in
a relationship now. But I do feel like it's summertime.
I'm ready for a relationship. It took me a while
to be able to be intimate with a man again.
I was nervous. I was scared, um what if he
turned out to be abusive? What if he looked at
(12:15):
me the way that Eric Schneiderman looked at me, the
scars that run down my torso criticizing them. But I
was very fortunate to meet somebody who was nice and
kind and has become a friend, and I now know
what I won't put up with. I also know now
how to spot and stop and prevent intimate partner violence,
(12:36):
so I will be able to see the signs much sooner.
And I structured the book around the stages that I
went through to get entangled in an abusive relationship, the
fairy tale stage, the entrapment, the isolation, the demeaning, the controlling,
and then the physical abuse. So I hope that by
(12:57):
taking the reader through those stages that they'll be able
to bought the violence before it happens to them too,
and to recognize their own agency, in their own power.
I think also, you know, women tend to be sensitive
caregivers we want to help the person, even if they're abusive.
I definitely was in that situation, but we have to
(13:18):
prioritize ourselves and our well being. What will your next
book be about? I'm very excited about UM. I'm working
on two books that I've been taking a lot of
notes for. One is called Leave Me Alone, and it's
about biophilia. I think, like a lot of people, during
(13:39):
the pandemic, I discovered a love of house plants. I
was never able to have house plants before because I
traveled so much for work. So I'm working on a novel.
It's kind of a fantasia about humans in their relationship
to plants. And then I've long wanted to write a
book about Sri Lanka and about my grandmother, who is
(14:01):
the main character in Assume Nothing. So i want to
write a book through her eyes about my birth country,
Sri Lanka, which has been through so so much UM.
And I also want to write a companion guide to
Assume Nothing but for girls. Before we end, I just
want to go back to one thing about the bystander
effect and how you're encouraging people to speak up when
(14:23):
they witness their family, their friends involved in relationships that
don't seem healthy. Is there ever a time not to
get involved. I think when we see or suspect violence
and abuse, we can't just watch, we can't just stand by.
(14:43):
It's the big reason that I came forward is because
I did not want another woman to be abused by him.
That was the main motivator for me, and I believe
that the safety of women is a threat to male
power and we all need to do our part to
(15:05):
tip away at that conditioning. And part of that is
in being an upstander. I think about the anti Asian
hate crimes that happened over the past few months and
the people who just stood by and watched while people
were being attacked. And while it is extremely important to
(15:25):
safeguard your own self your own body, there are ways
in which you can be an upstander that don't put
yourself at risk, and it might be by reaching out
to an organization. There are organizations and communities that are
equipped to deal with these situations. But I think the
(15:46):
first step, if you know the person, if they're a
friend or a neighbor, is to engage them in conversation,
because you never know when that person might be willing
to Talk. If you enjoy What's Your Story with em
and Amy, please do leave a review wherever you get
your podcasts, and do let us know what you think
of the author snack series by commenting on Instagram at
(16:10):
What's Her Story Podcast
In this Author Snack series, we speak with author Tanya Silveratnam,
who just released Assume Nothing, a Story of Intimate Violence,
about her abusive relationship with former New York Attorney General
Eric Schneiderman. So, Tanya, one of the things that struck
me in reading your book is that this had never
(00:27):
happened to you before, And it also made me think
if he wasn't so powerful, it wouldn't have happened this time.
I had truly never been in an abusive relationship before,
and when it first started happening, it was so shocking
because of whom my abuser presented as publicly as an
advocate for women's rights, as a progressive hero, as a
(00:50):
liberal champion, and also because he had what seemed like
a friendly relationship with his ex wife. So I thought
that the abuse was evict to me because it started
happening when the national spotlight was increasing on him and
there was more pressure on him and his drinking increased.
But then later I found out that, in fact, I
(01:11):
was part of a very long pattern of his abusing women.
How did you find that out? It was about a
month after the relationship ended. I have a friend who's
an investigative reporter who had come with me to get
my things from his place when he was not there,
and within twenty four hours she texted me saying, I
(01:32):
have some info. Can you talk. She had connected with
an old family friend of hers who happened to know
one of Eric's previous girlfriends and asked casually, did you
ever hear anything about Eric from this woman? And immediately
he launched into talking about the abuse that sounded eerily
(01:53):
similar to mine. And although at the time I had
no interest in coming forward and share my story, I
really wanted to get on with my life. When I
found out that there was this other woman who was
almost a decade before me, I thought, I wondered, how
many more are there in between and before? So that's
how I found out. It was like the universe sent
(02:15):
me the sign. And I'm still kind of amazed at
that cosmic convergence. And it was painful to think about
coming forward, but I also knew that I had to.
When you had this book come out again, you didn't
want to be known as the sexual assault victim of
(02:35):
you know, New York's Attorney General. So how did you
reconcile that and what has happened since I wrote the book,
because I had so many people reaching out to me
sharing their own stories of intimate violence, and I wondered,
why aren't we able to talk about this? You know,
why aren't we able to talk about these difficult experiences
(02:56):
that are so common? When you hear the statistics that
one in four women will experience some form of intimate
partner violence in their lifetimes. I really wanted to, you know,
as I say the book, in the book, split the
world open by sharing our stories, because by sharing our stories,
we take the shame and the stigma out of it.
Because the shame and the stigma leads to the secrecy,
(03:17):
which prevents us from healing and also prevents us from
finding solutions. So I wanted to shift the perception of
what a victim looks like. It's uncomfortable for me to
keep talking about the subject, but I also hope it
helps people. Were you ever physically afraid after you told
your story? I was terrified because my abuser was the
(03:39):
top law enforcement officer in New York State and until
I came forward, and even right after I did. I
believe that you can't anticipate how much someone will snap
when they feel their power being taken away, and because
I've had many friends who have been threatened with physical violence,
(04:01):
with having their careers and reputations ruined by powerful abusers.
But I really had to kind of put my faith
in the universe and surround myself with friends and loved
ones in a community of support, my coven um, so
that I felt protected by them, that they would have
my back. There's such a contrast between how independent you
(04:25):
are as a person in the situation you found yourself in.
How did you reclaim your feeling of safety of moving
around in the world safely. It took time, It's still
taking time because I was uncomfortable being visible. I was
uncomfortable being out in public. But that's where the sisterhood
(04:46):
and friends are so important and played such a role
in my recovery by surrounding me with love and also
giving me opportunities to find joy. I'm also really grateful
that I'm an artist, that I could write my way
out of the darkness, and that I could experience art
and that helps me heal. So those are just some
(05:08):
ways that I found a way to go from being
a victim to a survivor to a thriver and it
is an ongoing process. Has Eric responded to the book.
He has not responded to the book, but it was
soon after the book came out that an investigation into
his actions was concluded and he agreed to discipline by consent.
(05:32):
He agreed to um confirm the veracity of the allegations
against not just myself but to other women who were
part of the original investigation by Jane Mayer and Ronan Pharaoh.
He was disbarred for a year while he has to
undergo mental health counseling. So I take that in part
as a response, and how did that make you feel?
(05:55):
I felt like I could My shoulders went down, I
felt like I could breathe. I felt like I could
walk a little bit lighter. Do I feel that justice
was served. I felt that the justice was served based
on the facts present in the investigation. But I feel
that more needs to be done because disbarment for a year,
(06:19):
while it sends a strong message that the State of
New York takes egregious personal conduct very seriously, I feel
that in some ways he's still getting away with it
because he can get on with his lives while his
victims have to deal with the trauma for the rest
of their lives. So there might be other ways that
(06:43):
ah that justice can happen, and I'm considering those ways now.
One of the things that you share in the book
is how many friends and family members kind of noticed
certain warning signs and we're uncomfortable with his behavior to
to you in hindsight. Was there anything they could have
done to help you get out of their sooner? Part
(07:07):
of the reason why I wrote the book is to
encourage bystanders to be upstanders. My friends supported me as
much as they could based on what I was telling them,
but because I wasn't opening up to them for a
long time about the intimate violence. Uh, it's a difficult
thing to talk to a friend about when you suspect
(07:29):
that they might be going through abuse. So I feel
that friends can be a lifeline to a victim and
don't be shy of the conversation, be non judgmental, be
a good listener, and also have resources at your disposal
that you can pass along to your friend in case
(07:50):
they are in an abusive relationship and need to find
ways to get out. What kind of resources would use
There are so many organizations and help lines that serve
different communities, and I'm very proud that the book has
an appendix with dozens of organizations listed. I had a
friend who did ask me tough questions that elicited responses
(08:15):
that I did not know I was going to give.
One question was does he hit you? And when I
said yes, she knew that she was not equipped to
take me past that point, and so she asked if
I would be willing to speak with the domestic violence
expert who was a friend of hers, and I said yes,
And after she connected me with that domestic violence expert,
(08:36):
then I was able to recognize what I had been
going through. And I also was able to craft a
safety plan with her help and guidance, and she has
remained a close ally and confidante and friend to this day.
Your mom's reaction to you coming forward was quite strong.
(08:56):
What was that like for you? I was sad, but
I also recognize the pressure it put on her to
have her daughter so public in that way, and also
it was triggering for her. You know, she herself experienced
(09:17):
horrific domestic violence at the hands of my father, so
I think it made her sad too that it had
happened to me. But I hope that mothers and daughters
are able to engage with each other in conversations about this.
I feel really gratified when I hear from women that
they bought the book for themselves and for their mothers
(09:38):
so that they could finally have the difficult conversations that
they were never able to have before. I'm also really
happy when I hear that men have bought the book
and are reading it and are able to understand like
their own behaviors, their relationships with their parents, and also
to be able to talk to their daughters and their
sons about these issues. So where do you go from
(10:00):
here in terms of what's next for you and is
this something you're going to continue in terms of advocacy
work for victims of intimate violence or are you going
to go back to your roots in the arts. Well,
fortunately the two are converging, so I will continue to
be an advocate. I will make sure to channel Naomi
(10:23):
Osaka when I need to and take breaks because it
does wear on me to talk about the subject so much.
But I think it's also important to spread the message
of the book, which is to make peace and kindness
more exciting than violence, which is to prioritize consent um
consent must be requested and it must be obtained, and
(10:46):
to encourage mutual pleasure. And when I say that, the
two my my work in the arts and my work
around the subject are converging. I am the senior advisor
for gender justice narratives for the pop Cull your collaborative,
So I am finding ways to shift the narrative waters
around gender justice, which is not just about women, but
(11:07):
tied to all forms of oppression, to immigration, l g B,
t q A, I plus rights, disability, immigrants, UM and
and and racism. So working on that. And then also
the book is being turned into a television series, which
which is an unexpected outcome. I did not plan for
(11:28):
it to be turned into a series, but I was
very fortunate that ABC, Signature and Disney Television with Joanna
Coles as executive producer, option the book and are turning
it into a series because then it means it will
reach a whole different audience than the book. Than the
book will In terms of your personal life today, how
did the relationship impact how you're viewing your future relationships
(11:54):
and are you in a relationship now. I'm not in
a relationship now. But I do feel like it's summertime.
I'm ready for a relationship. It took me a while
to be able to be intimate with a man again.
I was nervous. I was scared, um what if he
turned out to be abusive? What if he looked at
(12:15):
me the way that Eric Schneiderman looked at me, the
scars that run down my torso criticizing them. But I
was very fortunate to meet somebody who was nice and
kind and has become a friend, and I now know
what I won't put up with. I also know now
how to spot and stop and prevent intimate partner violence,
(12:36):
so I will be able to see the signs much sooner.
And I structured the book around the stages that I
went through to get entangled in an abusive relationship, the
fairy tale stage, the entrapment, the isolation, the demeaning, the controlling,
and then the physical abuse. So I hope that by
(12:57):
taking the reader through those stages that they'll be able
to bought the violence before it happens to them too,
and to recognize their own agency, in their own power.
I think also, you know, women tend to be sensitive
caregivers we want to help the person, even if they're abusive.
I definitely was in that situation, but we have to
(13:18):
prioritize ourselves and our well being. What will your next
book be about? I'm very excited about UM. I'm working
on two books that I've been taking a lot of
notes for. One is called Leave Me Alone, and it's
about biophilia. I think, like a lot of people, during
(13:39):
the pandemic, I discovered a love of house plants. I
was never able to have house plants before because I
traveled so much for work. So I'm working on a novel.
It's kind of a fantasia about humans in their relationship
to plants. And then I've long wanted to write a
book about Sri Lanka and about my grandmother, who is
(14:01):
the main character in Assume Nothing. So i want to
write a book through her eyes about my birth country,
Sri Lanka, which has been through so so much UM.
And I also want to write a companion guide to
Assume Nothing but for girls. Before we end, I just
want to go back to one thing about the bystander
effect and how you're encouraging people to speak up when
(14:23):
they witness their family, their friends involved in relationships that
don't seem healthy. Is there ever a time not to
get involved. I think when we see or suspect violence
and abuse, we can't just watch, we can't just stand by.
(14:43):
It's the big reason that I came forward is because
I did not want another woman to be abused by him.
That was the main motivator for me, and I believe
that the safety of women is a threat to male
power and we all need to do our part to
(15:05):
tip away at that conditioning. And part of that is
in being an upstander. I think about the anti Asian
hate crimes that happened over the past few months and
the people who just stood by and watched while people
were being attacked. And while it is extremely important to
(15:25):
safeguard your own self your own body, there are ways
in which you can be an upstander that don't put
yourself at risk, and it might be by reaching out
to an organization. There are organizations and communities that are
equipped to deal with these situations. But I think the
(15:46):
first step, if you know the person, if they're a
friend or a neighbor, is to engage them in conversation,
because you never know when that person might be willing
to Talk. If you enjoy What's Your Story with em
and Amy, please do leave a review wherever you get
your podcasts, and do let us know what you think
of the author snack series by commenting on Instagram at
(16:10):
What's Her Story Podcast
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Samantha Ettus
Amy Nelson
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