December 10, 2020 • 37 mins
What’s Her Story with Sam & Amy features Shannon Watts, founder of Mom’s Demand Action for Gun Sense in America—the leading national force for gun violence prevention. Hear how Shannon turned just 75 Facebook friends into a powerful group of 5 million mothers. This amazing story of “the NRA’s worst nightmare” is not to be missed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from Gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. Today, we
get to talk to Shannon Watt, who, for many people
(00:24):
is an icon of gun violence prevention in America. Those
of you who heard our episode with Marcia Cross, she
was brought to tears at the mere mention of Shannon
Watts because of what she has done for so many people.
She created Mom's Demand Action for gun since in America.
It's easy to see why Marcia really admires Shannon. I
(00:45):
do too, you know, Sam, I don't think we've ever
talked about this, but I grew up in Ohio, a
suburb of Columbus, and when I was a teenager in
high school, um two of my classmates were playing with
a father's guy and one killed the other accidentally, and
there was really no conversation about it either in our community,
(01:06):
by our teachers, by parents. And I now know right
there was this missing voice. We didn't have the voice
of a parent who wanted to keep their children safe
in my community or in the national arena. And that's
why I'm so excited for this conversation. So the n
r A has called you their worst nightmare. You now
have five million supporters. How did this all begin? Well,
(01:30):
you know, I will say that I call myself the
n r a's worst nightmare. I really do think that
they never wanted women and mothers to organize in this
country against them. That that that was literally the worst nightmare.
And when Sandy Hook happened, I was a stay at
home mom in um suburban Indiana, right outside of Indianapolis.
(01:54):
And I had been home for about five years, taking
a break from my corporate career because my husband and
I were blending our families and we had five kids altogether,
and I was just getting ready to go back to
work to think about looking for a job. And I
can remember very clearly, you know, it was December fourteen,
two thousand and twelve, a very cold day. I was
(02:15):
folding laundry, watching the TV, and suddenly there was breaking
news that there was an active shooter in a place
called Newtown, Connecticut, in an elementary school. And like the
rest of the country. I was devastated and riveted and
just um overwhelmed by what I was seeing unfold on
(02:38):
my television. But then over the next day I was
enraged because I was seeing pundits and politicians come on
to talk about what had happened, and they were saying
that the solution was somehow more guns, that somehow four
million guns and and very few gun laws. Um was
(02:59):
not the cause of this, right, it was it was
not enough guns and maybe even too many gun laws.
And I didn't know anything about organizing. I didn't know
anything about gun violence. UM. I just knew that that
was a lie. And then that day, the next day,
December fifteenth, I started a Facebook page that grew into
(03:20):
Mom's Demand Action. And how did you just you started
the Facebook page? How do people find you? I had
seventy five Facebook friends and so yeah, so many, um,
And I really don't know who I thought I was
talking to, because again I didn't have that many followers,
(03:43):
and and I didn't really know what a viral moment was, right,
I didn't even have a Twitter handle. I just was outraged,
and I knew how to create a Facebook page. It
was lightning in a bottle. Right, my my Facebook um
was suddenly overwhelmed d ms from mostly women all across
(04:03):
the country who were saying, I want to do this
where I live. And I'm not talking about just you
know Brooklyn and uh San Francisco. I'm talking about Houston
and and the Carolina's in Chicago and you know all
of the city's rural and urban um and in between.
And and we just came together as perfect strangers and
(04:25):
started organizing online and eventually offline. Can you take us
back through that moment? So you wake up the next
day and suddenly there's a spiral thing and you have
all of these people across the country that want to
be part of this. How did you even just those
first three months? How did you organize it? When I
was in corporate communications as an executive, my job was
(04:45):
to manage people all across the world who who were
working in communications too. It just seemed logical to me,
based on that experience, to organize people by state so
that they owned the work they wanted to do where
they lived, and so you would do national work and
you would do local work, and really are our focus
(05:07):
in those first few months was just trying to pass
federal legislation on this issue. There was something called the
Mansion Toomey Bill, which is a bipartisan piece of legislation
that would have closed the background check loophole that we
have in this country, which allows unlicensed gun sales without
a background check, for example, gun shows, online garage sales.
I knew that we needed to have a look and
(05:28):
a feel, branding, messaging, UM, that we needed to be
present where people were on social media. I also want
to say that so many brilliant, perfect strangers came to
the table with their own skill sets, whether it was
organizing or um, they were lawyers, or they were website developers.
(05:50):
I mean it ran the gamut, and so without all
of that help, you know, we never would have been
able to succeed. So you find yourself unning this organization
that you didn't anticipate. What was your personal life like
at that point? I mean, how did you even have
the child care necessary to suddenly run this organization. My
(06:11):
kids were a little bit older when this happened, so
they ranged an age from elementary to middle to high
school to college. And that was part of my blended families.
My my stepdaughter is older, two stepdaughters UM and so
they weren't tiny, which was certainly helpful. But there was
a real shift. I mean, it was a seismic shift
(06:33):
in my in my marriage, in my parenting style, um,
in my life. I can remember, you know, probably a
month in laying on the floor crying, looking at the closet,
thinking like what have I done? Because I had never
been busier in my corporate life. I was working from
the moment I woke up to the moment I went
to bed on this issue, and that included weekends. I
(06:56):
look back now with perspective and can say that it
was a really dramatic but also important change in my life. Certainly, um,
my ex husband who I co parent with, he had
to step up. My husband had to step up, and
they were doing things that that frankly, they probably should
(07:18):
have been joining anyway. Um. And and also you know,
I always say that the amount of energy and passion
I put into mom's and man action I was probably
putting into my kids lives and homework, which isn't that
healthy either. So it was a big change for everyone.
But you know, I get asked the question all the time,
(07:39):
did you feel absent? Did you feel guilty? And sure
I had those feelings, but I knew the work I
was doing was incredibly important. I knew I was a
role model to my kids. And I will tell you now,
I've been doing this for almost eight years. I just
sent my very last kid to college. They never say, hey,
you missed this soccer game, or hey you didn't show
(08:01):
up at this holiday event. What they say is remember
that time with you about rally or well, mom, you know,
I'm so proud of you, and I hope that other
mothers hear that and know that that that when you
do things that fuel yourself and your passion, it only
benefits your kids. I love that you said that because
(08:21):
I tell moms all the time, if you talk to
adult children of working moms, there's no prouder group that
will talk about their parents careers and brag about their
careers and what they learned. And you know, there's a
reason that daughters of working moms or more as adults
than daughters have stay at home moms. And I think
(08:41):
the more of that message gets out there from people
like you, the better off we all are. And I
think that one of the incredible things about what you're
doing is there's this legacy factor of you know, even
after you're done with this work, other people can take
that on. Is that something you think about all is
how to pass the torch? I think it's such a
(09:03):
great question, um, because I talk a lot to volunteers.
I write about it in my book Fight Like a Mother.
But but to me, this has been all along part
of a Buddhist practice. I am Buddhist, and there's there's
so much to be learned about trying to put your
ego aside, and it is hard, right and I can
(09:24):
tell you I have I have stumbled, and I have faltered,
and I have failed so many times along the way.
But my goal is always that this organization is not
about me or any specific person. It is about the cause.
It is about gun violence survivors, and that it would
last into perpetuity. This issue isn't going away anytime in
(09:45):
the near future in this country, and we need not
only new and younger volunteers that are that are women
and moms obviously, but also now we have students to
man action. Um. You know, I also talked about the
fact that when I started this organization, I was a
white suburban mom living in a bubble. I did not
realize that a hundred Americans are shot and killed every day,
(10:07):
and I started MOMS because I was scared my kids
weren't safe in their schools. And yet, you know, there
are black women who have been shouting this from the
rooftops for decades with very two little no two, no attention.
And it's really important also, you know, as we grow,
I think that there's an important role for white women
(10:27):
to do the work that we should have been doing
for so long, but also to listen to to black
and brown women who really are at the center of
this this pain, in this issue. You started Mom's Van
action in Indiana. What were your neighbors. What was the
reaction of your neighbors in your community. I can remember
(10:47):
my kids not wanting to tell people that I what
I did, because you know, it was such a hot point.
I always tell the story of um. When I first
started doing this work, I had all these rolls attacking
me because you know, all my information was public. So
they were calling me and emailing me and texting me,
and uh sending letters to my house and driving by
(11:08):
my house. And so I figured, you know, I should
call the local police department and just give them a
heads up and let them know what's going on. And
the police officer, who you know, I explained what was
going on and he said, well, you know, ma'am, that's
what you get when you mess with the Second Amendment.
And that was such a wake up called people. You
know that that the people that I think are there
(11:29):
to protect me have an opinion on this issue, and
that if it doesn't go along with mine, it may
make me more vulnerable. And and and really I think
many of us in this movement have had that kind
of moment where we had to decide, Okay, are we
gonna We're gonna back down or we're gonna double down?
You know, I mean people open carrying show up at
(11:50):
Mom'span Action events all over the country all the time
because it's legal, you know, in in over forty states,
so they'll show up with a semi automatic rifle to
try to intimidate our own heres. And so all of
us have had those moments of am I going to
allow gun extremists to intimidate and silence me? Or am
I going to to ignore it and let it become
(12:11):
like white noise? Because I know that lives are on
the line, and frankly, if we lose our children. You know,
we have nothing left to lose. What world do gun
owners plan the organization because you know, I've I've read
a lot about Mom's Demand action and been a part
of it, and you know, the very clear statement is
that the organization is not anti gun is anti gun violence. Right.
Many of our our volunteers, particularly in rural areas or
(12:35):
red states, are our gun owners or their partners are
gun owners. Um. You know, even here in California where
I live. I mean more guns are sold in the
state of California than any other state in the country,
including Texas. So odds are you know a gun owner? Um?
And the vast majority of them are responsible. But again,
we've been allowing the gun lobby and gun extremists to
(12:58):
write our gun loss in this country for decks. And
it's why we have a twenty five times higher gun
homicide rate than any other high income country. It's why
you know, there are laws requiring people in many states
to report lost and stolen guns. It's why we have
such a culture of unsecure gun storage. Right. What name
(13:20):
another country where toddler's shoot and kill their parents by accident. Um.
And so there's just so much work that needs to
be done around restoring the responsibilities that should go along
with gun rights, and that doesn't make you anti gun.
Can you tell us a little more about gun storage,
because I know that's a huge issue and I think
that it's it's a catchphrase that some of our listeners
(13:43):
might not be aware of the issue. Yes, and and
it's an important discussion right now because there was a
historic number of gun sales March through July of this year,
historic millions and millions of guns sold, many to first
time buyers who may live in states that don't require
training or background checks, um and may not know how
(14:04):
to securely store a firearm. Secure gun storage is incredibly
important right now. That simply means your guns are locked, unloaded,
and separate from ammunition. That's how guns should be stored.
When when children are around, um, and most school shooters
in this country are actually students, and where do they
get their guns? They get them from home and they're
(14:26):
not secured. I'm very worried given this huge influx of
gun sales and when schools do start for real, you
know what's going to happen in this country Because we
know that that too many states don't require secure gun storage.
In those states that do, we see a lower number
(14:47):
of unintentional shootings of kids by kids, gun suicides. And
now for a quick break, now, Shannah, I don't want
to I don't want to leave this safety issue because
I'm really I really want to understand how you keep safe, right,
I mean, if anyone would be a target, it would
(15:09):
obviously be you. You had that first experience with the
police officer who said you were infringing on Second Amendment.
What what have you done since then to feel safe traveling,
to feel safe in your home, to protect your family. Yeah,
it is very bizarre. When I was traveling and before COVID,
you know, I was probably traveling three weeks out of
(15:30):
the month. Um I often had a security guard who
would travel with me. I would have to use an
alias all because I support something is common and as
um as widely supported as a background check on every
gun sale. But I have to say, you know, certainly
(15:51):
we do take measures to keep safe, you know, dog
security alarms, things like that. But I just refused to
be intimidated and I refused to be silenced and to
not do this work because there are gun extremists who
believe that you know everyone should have easy access to guns. Um,
(16:12):
people in America don't agree with that. That's not a
mainstream viewpoint, and we've got to make sure we get
back to a place of reason on this issue. I
would imagine there's a ton of politicians who are always
courting you because you have this giant group now of
six million moms right. What what could be more powerful
in terms of a politician wanting your support? How do
(16:33):
you navigate the world of politics to the advantage of
what the policies you're trying to to infiltrate and to change. Well,
we have a very simple motto, which is, uh, if
you do the right thing, we'll have your back. If
you do the wrong thing, we'll have your job. And
you have to show lawmakers that over and over again,
(16:55):
and it does take time. No one gets involved in
this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You constantly
are meeting with your lawmakers and making sure this issue
is top of mind. Um. You you hold them accountable
when they do the wrong thing. Especially on social media,
it's such a great tool for busy moms right to
use a hashtag to shame their lawmakers who who are
(17:16):
voting for a bad bill or so, you know, we
we have pulled the lever of power, levers of power
that are available to us right now. Women only are
about of all lawmakers, were less than five percent of
fortune one thousand ceo s. But we're the majority of
the voting public and we make about the spending decisions
(17:37):
for our families. So those are the levers of power
that we can pull. And it's what we do every day,
all day long. You use social media a lot, and
I love hearing you mentioned it and talking about becoming
and being a political powerhouse because I think it's so important. Yeah,
you know, I, UM, I didn't have many Twitter followers
until when Donald Trump won and I just decided, you know,
(17:58):
screw it. I'm going to use my my real voice
when I talk about these issues. And I have a
lot of opinions on a lot of issues, and and
I am trained as a reporter, and so I have
sort of mastered the two sixty character SoundBite, UM, which
which makes you a popular follower on Twitter. And I train,
(18:21):
and we train as an organization other volunteers to do
the same thing because it is so important UM to
to show up and mass and and to have a presence,
but also to correct misinformation. I think it's such an
important way for women to be political in this country.
Um is on Twitter and on on Instagram and other
(18:43):
social media platforms where they can have a voice and
tell their stories. I feel so strongly about that. So
it is Amy too, And I think, you know, one
of the things that always amazes me. And I feel
like it's becoming so absolute as someone who will say, oh,
I don't get involved in politics, and it's kind of like, well,
politics is involved with you, Like it's no longer acceptable
(19:03):
to say you don't get involved. And I think Twitter
is such a great community because sometimes I feel like, oh,
my non Twitter friends don't get me because I like
you Shannon and Amy. We all spend a lot of
time on Twitter. But you are running such a giant organization.
And I know something that that Amy and I struggle
with this. How do you manage you know, how much
time you're supposed to be spending on social media and
(19:24):
responding to people and catching things and then obviously running
your company or organization. How do you think about that?
Is that just something that is your primary thing? You're
like managing social media all day while other things are
coming in you always have it up or how do
you how do you manage that in your life? You know,
I say some people like play candy crush or have
(19:45):
time to read, and I just feel that time with
Twitter and it is really important. I think that someone
in your organization is keeping an eye on your handle,
you know, what are people saying about you? And I'll
just give you an example. Um, this past weekend, I
noticed there was this fake racist meme with our logo
on it that was everywhere. Every time I searched the
(20:06):
Mom's man handle it was and and and it was
these gun extremists alleging we had made it. And then
there were verified influencers who were just sharing it without
doing the research. And I was having to find each
of them and retweet it and say this is racist
and fake and then also comment right. And eventually Reuters
(20:26):
wrote an article about it this morning. But it's it's
it's really part of brand awareness and protection and and
a lot of that these days plays out in social media.
Talk to us about money and how you have funded
your organization and are you always raising money or does
that have cycles? Yeah, so this is interesting. UM My
(20:51):
husband agreed when I first started Mom's ma in action
that that I would be a volunteer. That was sort
of my desire, right. I put a lot of my
own money into the organization in the beginning, but I
realized probably six months in that we would need a partner.
This just wasn't sustainable. There was no way some lady
from Indiana that nobody knew could fundraise and and keep
(21:15):
this organization going UM and so I started interviewing organizations
inside and outside the space, so women's organizations that might
want a grassroots movement, UM, a gun safety organizations. Ultimately,
UH there was an organization called Mayors Against Illegal Guns,
which was started by the Boston mayor, Mayor Menino and
(21:38):
Mayor Mike Bloomberg from New York, and they were doing
some similar work out there. I was seeing them show
up in communities and trying to after the federal legislation
failed to pass state and municipal legislation and policies, and
so that was just a conversation that clicked. We had
a lot of the same goals and my has been
(22:00):
very generous. That first year, he gave us fifty million dollars, which,
as you can imagine, turbocharged our our work and our efforts. UM.
And since then, you know, he's continued to be very generous,
but we are now actually bringing in more from our
individual donors than than we get from Mike. So I
think in order for an organization to be healthy and
(22:22):
again to last into perpetuity, you have to have every
American feel like they have a stake in it. And
and that's how we do the fundraising. And how how
has Mike involved in the day to day or what
is his role with the organization. Well, you know, Mike
has a lot of issues that he cares a lot about,
thankfully this is one of them. UM. But but John
(22:43):
Findblad is our president at every Town for Gun Safety.
John and I work closely together, um on the organization
and um you know, have had sort of a partnership
now for almost eight years. So when you are doing
your work and I feel this sometimes like you just
us feel like you're pouring something in a glass and
someone else is pouring it out right, it can feel
(23:04):
like that, especially you know, the last time I saw
you was right before COVID, and it was such a
different time in terms of what you were probably thinking about.
And you had no idea that you were then heading
into a period where people were buying guns and droves
to allegedly protect themselves from a pandemic. Which that which
(23:26):
actually seems insane right when you when you when you
talk about it that way, But how do you not
have that come your way and feel, oh, my goodness,
all my work you know for not like, how do
you sit every day and just stay positive? I'm positive
because I see all of the good work that's going on. Again,
(23:48):
this is a marathon, not a sprint. You don't get
into this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You
know you're gonna lose. Thankfully, we win more than we lose.
Our organization calls it losing forward. Um. We have passed
background checks now in twenty two states. We have passed
red flag laws in nineteen states. We have disarmed domestic
abusers in twenty nine states. And the work that is
(24:12):
getting done is important in life saving and I really
do think it's just a matter of time until we
have the laws we need at a federal level. This
is really heavy and hard work. Are you ever able
to step away and take time for yourself? Yeah? It is,
And you know a lot of what I do on
social media is tell the stories that no one would
(24:32):
necessarily see, you know, and um, I find for some
reason it hits home hardest for me because I'm always
seeing young men who are about my son's age that
are shot and killed, and those are the stories that
seem to stick with me the most. And you know,
I have the kind of personality where things often make
me angry and that's what fuels me, and I can
(24:54):
I can just be fueled by that and not feel
depressed or sad, just kind of angry. But then, you know,
I can remember last Christmas Eve, UM, my husband and
I were at a hotel and for some reason I
saw this this boy again, a young teen boy who
(25:14):
had been shot and killed at a university in North Carolina,
and his girlfriend posted this incredibly moving Instagram story about
his life. And that was it. Like I was in
bed that whole day crime and my husband kind of
looked at me, like, you know, what's going on? And
I do think that that in this country we struggle
with this secondhand PTSD because there is so much gun violence,
(25:35):
and then when you're doing this work on top of it,
it can be really hard. But you know. I guess
I would say two things. One is self care is
really important and it's something we talk about all the
time in our organization, and and how to do that.
Um I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's
a relay race too, so you've got to pass the
baton when you need to. And the other thing I
(25:55):
would say is, you know, I'm doing this work as
a non gun violence survivor. Thankfully, I have never been
impacted personally by gun violence, but so many people I
work with have and they wake up and they still
do this work every single day, and certainly if they can,
I can't too. What was your husband's real reaction. I mean,
I understand he was like, what's going on? But he
(26:16):
also must have been pretty annoyed. I mean, you're on vacation.
Before you know, you're in bed crying and again. And
it's not like a story he hasn't heard before. He
hears these stories from you every day. So how how
does it impact your relationship and what's his role in that? Well,
you know, because this is both of our second marriage,
we committed at the beginning that we would go to
marriage therapy no matter what every two weeks even if
(26:40):
things seemed fantastic, which as just you know if for
anyone who goes to merriage therapy, you know that even
if things seem fantastic, you find something to complain about
during your session, but you know, being able to talk
about that. I can remember we had a conversation about
that incident in therapy where I think he was kind
of like, I didn't really get it, and I felt like, why, why,
(27:01):
why weren't you more comforting? Why didn't you get it?
And I thought the therapist was really helpful in that
she said, you know, some people can't take in this
information at all and would be like this any time
they heard any of these stories. And Shannon does this
and it sort of builds up and this is what happens.
(27:21):
And I think that helped him understand, oh, this is
going to happen occasionally, or when it happens, this is
why it's happening. That's a great analogy that the build up,
what are what are the kinds of things that get
you upset? On the other end with him, yes, well,
(27:42):
since COVID started, I will tell you he is a
very loud talker on conference and zoom calls which I did.
I mean, I can he can be in the basement
and I am upstairs and I can hear every word.
And I don't know if that's grounds for divorce, but
really I have to say that that Covid has made
our marriage so much. It's just we're so close right
(28:04):
now and it has been wonderful. And he has just
gone on his first business trip in seven months and
he called me and he said, my god, I've left
the pod. I want to come back to the pod.
So you know, there are very very few things to
complain about with him, but he is a loud talker.
How did you, I mean by going back before you
met your husband, how did you make it work as
(28:26):
a single mom of three little kids? Working? It was
not easy? And you know, I my my husband, my
ex husband is such a great co parent and and
such a good dad and so incredibly helpful. You know,
our issue was never that we didn't like each other,
was that we got married too young. Um. And so
(28:49):
you know, he he was fantastic and UM has been
all along. In fact, when I said we we had moved,
you know, he moved to when we moved States. So, UM,
it's been it's that certainly has made it easier. Um,
but you know, I think it's it's important that dad's
stepdad's chip in and and do as much of the
(29:11):
heavy lifting. My husband does all the cooking, I do
all the laundry, uh and and everyone just has to
find their niche. Fam and I are both in marriages
where there's a lot of co parenting and a lot
of sharing and responsibility. I don't think it wouldn't work otherwise.
So we're big advocates that you can't reach your your
full full potential unless you have a partner at home
(29:33):
or if you're single, right, but if you are saddled
with a very sort of unjust division of labor, it's
very hard to reach any I also think there's something
to be said for three or more parents, you know.
I mean, it's like man on man defense. It makes
sense although you together have five children, correct, Yes, my
(29:58):
husband has two and I have three. Mike, it there
between seventeen months and six and I won't remember any
of this. I go through life and I'm like, I'm
not gonna remember this in five years. I don't remember
any of that either. I'm like in the teen years
and I can't remember yesterday, let alone like five years ago.
A right, Harry menopause wipes all of it out. And
(30:20):
now for a quick break. When when you think about,
you know, post COVID, you're back out in the world,
what's something that now that you've had, you know, perspective
and you're not traveling three weeks a month, what's something
that you would like to accomplish that you haven't yet.
I would love to learn to speak Spanish. Not that
I'm going to learn Spanish before we're all vaccinated, but
(30:42):
but maybe I could just get immersed. Now we we
are going to go to our lightning round where we
do it, but just speed questions. But before we do,
I have one last question for you, which is what
would you say to someone who's listening and thanks. I
want to advocate for x y Z cause I'm passionate
about it. Whether it's it's gun violence, or whether it's
lgbt Q rights, or whether it's gender, whatever it is,
(31:06):
what would you say to someone who's afraid to use
their voice because of what other people will think or
how it might impact their home life, or their careers
or their social life. I just think if you look
at the state the country is in right now. We
all have a moral obligation, a moral imperative to speak up,
to speak out, frankly, to run for office. You know,
(31:28):
I think too many women are not jumping into the arena.
And I don't care if you run for sheriff or
coroner or school board, run for something, because again we're
we only hold you know about the five thousand elected
positions in this country. It is just if we want
(31:50):
to shape a more just and fair and equitable and
kind world for our children and their children and our
commune pities, then we have to get involved. You know.
That's what I learned when I got off the sidelines
to get involved in this issue, and I wrote a
book called Fight Like a Mother. The reason I wrote
the book was because I wanted it to be partly
(32:12):
a manual of how other people, particularly women, could do.
This could replicate what I did, even if it's just
in their neighborhood, and it could be on any issue. UM.
I wanted to remember and write down what happened from
the very beginning and encourage other women to be activists.
I certainly never saw myself as one until Mom's to
(32:34):
man action. And do you want to kick us off
with our lightning round. Now, what is your favorite breakfast?
Every day? I eat cinnamon special k and almond monk,
but I would rather have a breakfast sandwich. I just
don't know how to make one. My husband just got
(32:57):
a breakfast sandwich maker. Then he makes for the kids
and actually can't stand them. But I got it for
him for I think, for Father's Day from all of us,
and it was really a gift to the kid. There's
something called a breakfast sandwich maker. Yes, I will send
you the link. I'll send you the link, and it
literally will change your life. You just put the English
muffon and it takes like it's really easy. My mouth
is watering. So what are you watching on TV these days? Oh?
(33:21):
All the Housewives franchises again, give me, cut me some
slack because it's covid um queen scambit. It was wonderful.
I'm getting ready to watch The Crown. I like The Undoing.
Oh the Undoing so good. Road Kill is It is
an English political drama that's also funny. It's excellent. Okay,
(33:44):
I'm writing that one down and we are actually almost
out of time, so I want to make sure we
have time for our male perspective, Lou Burns, lu are
you with us? Yes, I am so, Shannon. Lou has
been listening and he did not His thing is he
doesn't do any rees urged before the episode, so he
just learned about you through the episode and then he
(34:04):
asked his his big question, Hall, Hi, Shannon, you're doing
some really good work. Um. My my niece and god
daughter was was a student at Marjorie Stone Stoneman Douglas School. UM,
and we got a call the next day finding out
that she was in class that day and I had
(34:25):
a great talk with her, and I have I have
a question that's kind of loaded on both ends. But
I was looking at the Vegas one where almost four
hundred and eleven people were killed in like over eight
hundred were injured, you know, and this gentleman, you know,
no one would ever imagine he would have ever did
(34:48):
something like that. So my question is it's like, would
a background check really prevent more gun violence? So, you know,
background checks are remo most important foundational part of a
gun safety system, which we we don't have in this country.
Background checks simply prevent people who shouldn't have guns from
(35:12):
getting them. So in this country, if you buy a
gun from a licensed dealer, for example Walmart, you have
to have a background check. That system works. It stops
millions of people who shouldn't have guns from getting them.
Where the system falls down is that federal law does
not require unlicensed dealers to perform a background check. So
(35:33):
if you are a domestic abuser in more than half
the states in this country, all you have to do
is go to a gun show or arrange a gun
sale online and get a gun, no questions asked. So
we know that background checks are foundational and would save
a huge number of lives right away. Thank you so much,
Thank you so much, Shannon, Thank you. So I think
(35:56):
what's so amazing about Shannon and I you really can't
get enough. But the story is just how she mobilized
so many people with She had such a tiny, tiny
community on Facebook, and as she said, you know, as
six million people as part of our community. It's it's
really inspirational. It is inspirational, and I think it's a
lesson to us all that even if we feel like
(36:18):
we're beginning from nothing, we can build something really important
and something really big. Um And along those lines of
sharing and building community, Sam, do not forget to send
Shannon the name of that breakfast sandwich maker. I won't.
Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
(36:38):
We would so appreciate if you would leave a review
wherever you get your podcasts, and of course, connect with
us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company,
The Riveter at the Riveter dot c O and Sam's company,
park Place Payments at park place Payments dot com. Thanks
to our producer Laurel Mogulin, our podcast associate m Hard,
(37:00):
and our male perspective Luberns
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from Gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. Today, we
get to talk to Shannon Watt, who, for many people
(00:24):
is an icon of gun violence prevention in America. Those
of you who heard our episode with Marcia Cross, she
was brought to tears at the mere mention of Shannon
Watts because of what she has done for so many people.
She created Mom's Demand Action for gun since in America.
It's easy to see why Marcia really admires Shannon. I
(00:45):
do too, you know, Sam, I don't think we've ever
talked about this, but I grew up in Ohio, a
suburb of Columbus, and when I was a teenager in
high school, um two of my classmates were playing with
a father's guy and one killed the other accidentally, and
there was really no conversation about it either in our community,
(01:06):
by our teachers, by parents. And I now know right
there was this missing voice. We didn't have the voice
of a parent who wanted to keep their children safe
in my community or in the national arena. And that's
why I'm so excited for this conversation. So the n
r A has called you their worst nightmare. You now
have five million supporters. How did this all begin? Well,
(01:30):
you know, I will say that I call myself the
n r a's worst nightmare. I really do think that
they never wanted women and mothers to organize in this
country against them. That that that was literally the worst nightmare.
And when Sandy Hook happened, I was a stay at
home mom in um suburban Indiana, right outside of Indianapolis.
(01:54):
And I had been home for about five years, taking
a break from my corporate career because my husband and
I were blending our families and we had five kids altogether,
and I was just getting ready to go back to
work to think about looking for a job. And I
can remember very clearly, you know, it was December fourteen,
two thousand and twelve, a very cold day. I was
(02:15):
folding laundry, watching the TV, and suddenly there was breaking
news that there was an active shooter in a place
called Newtown, Connecticut, in an elementary school. And like the
rest of the country. I was devastated and riveted and
just um overwhelmed by what I was seeing unfold on
(02:38):
my television. But then over the next day I was
enraged because I was seeing pundits and politicians come on
to talk about what had happened, and they were saying
that the solution was somehow more guns, that somehow four
million guns and and very few gun laws. Um was
(02:59):
not the cause of this, right, it was it was
not enough guns and maybe even too many gun laws.
And I didn't know anything about organizing. I didn't know
anything about gun violence. UM. I just knew that that
was a lie. And then that day, the next day,
December fifteenth, I started a Facebook page that grew into
(03:20):
Mom's Demand Action. And how did you just you started
the Facebook page? How do people find you? I had
seventy five Facebook friends and so yeah, so many, um,
And I really don't know who I thought I was
talking to, because again I didn't have that many followers,
(03:43):
and and I didn't really know what a viral moment was, right,
I didn't even have a Twitter handle. I just was outraged,
and I knew how to create a Facebook page. It
was lightning in a bottle. Right, my my Facebook um
was suddenly overwhelmed d ms from mostly women all across
(04:03):
the country who were saying, I want to do this
where I live. And I'm not talking about just you
know Brooklyn and uh San Francisco. I'm talking about Houston
and and the Carolina's in Chicago and you know all
of the city's rural and urban um and in between.
And and we just came together as perfect strangers and
(04:25):
started organizing online and eventually offline. Can you take us
back through that moment? So you wake up the next
day and suddenly there's a spiral thing and you have
all of these people across the country that want to
be part of this. How did you even just those
first three months? How did you organize it? When I
was in corporate communications as an executive, my job was
(04:45):
to manage people all across the world who who were
working in communications too. It just seemed logical to me,
based on that experience, to organize people by state so
that they owned the work they wanted to do where
they lived, and so you would do national work and
you would do local work, and really are our focus
(05:07):
in those first few months was just trying to pass
federal legislation on this issue. There was something called the
Mansion Toomey Bill, which is a bipartisan piece of legislation
that would have closed the background check loophole that we
have in this country, which allows unlicensed gun sales without
a background check, for example, gun shows, online garage sales.
I knew that we needed to have a look and
(05:28):
a feel, branding, messaging, UM, that we needed to be
present where people were on social media. I also want
to say that so many brilliant, perfect strangers came to
the table with their own skill sets, whether it was
organizing or um, they were lawyers, or they were website developers.
(05:50):
I mean it ran the gamut, and so without all
of that help, you know, we never would have been
able to succeed. So you find yourself unning this organization
that you didn't anticipate. What was your personal life like
at that point? I mean, how did you even have
the child care necessary to suddenly run this organization. My
(06:11):
kids were a little bit older when this happened, so
they ranged an age from elementary to middle to high
school to college. And that was part of my blended families.
My my stepdaughter is older, two stepdaughters UM and so
they weren't tiny, which was certainly helpful. But there was
a real shift. I mean, it was a seismic shift
(06:33):
in my in my marriage, in my parenting style, um,
in my life. I can remember, you know, probably a
month in laying on the floor crying, looking at the closet,
thinking like what have I done? Because I had never
been busier in my corporate life. I was working from
the moment I woke up to the moment I went
to bed on this issue, and that included weekends. I
(06:56):
look back now with perspective and can say that it
was a really dramatic but also important change in my life. Certainly, um,
my ex husband who I co parent with, he had
to step up. My husband had to step up, and
they were doing things that that frankly, they probably should
(07:18):
have been joining anyway. Um. And and also you know,
I always say that the amount of energy and passion
I put into mom's and man action I was probably
putting into my kids lives and homework, which isn't that
healthy either. So it was a big change for everyone.
But you know, I get asked the question all the time,
(07:39):
did you feel absent? Did you feel guilty? And sure
I had those feelings, but I knew the work I
was doing was incredibly important. I knew I was a
role model to my kids. And I will tell you now,
I've been doing this for almost eight years. I just
sent my very last kid to college. They never say, hey,
you missed this soccer game, or hey you didn't show
(08:01):
up at this holiday event. What they say is remember
that time with you about rally or well, mom, you know,
I'm so proud of you, and I hope that other
mothers hear that and know that that that when you
do things that fuel yourself and your passion, it only
benefits your kids. I love that you said that because
(08:21):
I tell moms all the time, if you talk to
adult children of working moms, there's no prouder group that
will talk about their parents careers and brag about their
careers and what they learned. And you know, there's a
reason that daughters of working moms or more as adults
than daughters have stay at home moms. And I think
(08:41):
the more of that message gets out there from people
like you, the better off we all are. And I
think that one of the incredible things about what you're
doing is there's this legacy factor of you know, even
after you're done with this work, other people can take
that on. Is that something you think about all is
how to pass the torch? I think it's such a
(09:03):
great question, um, because I talk a lot to volunteers.
I write about it in my book Fight Like a Mother.
But but to me, this has been all along part
of a Buddhist practice. I am Buddhist, and there's there's
so much to be learned about trying to put your
ego aside, and it is hard, right and I can
(09:24):
tell you I have I have stumbled, and I have faltered,
and I have failed so many times along the way.
But my goal is always that this organization is not
about me or any specific person. It is about the cause.
It is about gun violence survivors, and that it would
last into perpetuity. This issue isn't going away anytime in
(09:45):
the near future in this country, and we need not
only new and younger volunteers that are that are women
and moms obviously, but also now we have students to
man action. Um. You know, I also talked about the
fact that when I started this organization, I was a
white suburban mom living in a bubble. I did not
realize that a hundred Americans are shot and killed every day,
(10:07):
and I started MOMS because I was scared my kids
weren't safe in their schools. And yet, you know, there
are black women who have been shouting this from the
rooftops for decades with very two little no two, no attention.
And it's really important also, you know, as we grow,
I think that there's an important role for white women
(10:27):
to do the work that we should have been doing
for so long, but also to listen to to black
and brown women who really are at the center of
this this pain, in this issue. You started Mom's Van
action in Indiana. What were your neighbors. What was the
reaction of your neighbors in your community. I can remember
(10:47):
my kids not wanting to tell people that I what
I did, because you know, it was such a hot point.
I always tell the story of um. When I first
started doing this work, I had all these rolls attacking
me because you know, all my information was public. So
they were calling me and emailing me and texting me,
and uh sending letters to my house and driving by
(11:08):
my house. And so I figured, you know, I should
call the local police department and just give them a
heads up and let them know what's going on. And
the police officer, who you know, I explained what was
going on and he said, well, you know, ma'am, that's
what you get when you mess with the Second Amendment.
And that was such a wake up called people. You
know that that the people that I think are there
(11:29):
to protect me have an opinion on this issue, and
that if it doesn't go along with mine, it may
make me more vulnerable. And and and really I think
many of us in this movement have had that kind
of moment where we had to decide, Okay, are we
gonna We're gonna back down or we're gonna double down?
You know, I mean people open carrying show up at
(11:50):
Mom'span Action events all over the country all the time
because it's legal, you know, in in over forty states,
so they'll show up with a semi automatic rifle to
try to intimidate our own heres. And so all of
us have had those moments of am I going to
allow gun extremists to intimidate and silence me? Or am
I going to to ignore it and let it become
(12:11):
like white noise? Because I know that lives are on
the line, and frankly, if we lose our children. You know,
we have nothing left to lose. What world do gun
owners plan the organization because you know, I've I've read
a lot about Mom's Demand action and been a part
of it, and you know, the very clear statement is
that the organization is not anti gun is anti gun violence. Right.
Many of our our volunteers, particularly in rural areas or
(12:35):
red states, are our gun owners or their partners are
gun owners. Um. You know, even here in California where
I live. I mean more guns are sold in the
state of California than any other state in the country,
including Texas. So odds are you know a gun owner? Um?
And the vast majority of them are responsible. But again,
we've been allowing the gun lobby and gun extremists to
(12:58):
write our gun loss in this country for decks. And
it's why we have a twenty five times higher gun
homicide rate than any other high income country. It's why
you know, there are laws requiring people in many states
to report lost and stolen guns. It's why we have
such a culture of unsecure gun storage. Right. What name
(13:20):
another country where toddler's shoot and kill their parents by accident. Um.
And so there's just so much work that needs to
be done around restoring the responsibilities that should go along
with gun rights, and that doesn't make you anti gun.
Can you tell us a little more about gun storage,
because I know that's a huge issue and I think
that it's it's a catchphrase that some of our listeners
(13:43):
might not be aware of the issue. Yes, and and
it's an important discussion right now because there was a
historic number of gun sales March through July of this year,
historic millions and millions of guns sold, many to first
time buyers who may live in states that don't require
training or background checks, um and may not know how
(14:04):
to securely store a firearm. Secure gun storage is incredibly
important right now. That simply means your guns are locked, unloaded,
and separate from ammunition. That's how guns should be stored.
When when children are around, um, and most school shooters
in this country are actually students, and where do they
get their guns? They get them from home and they're
(14:26):
not secured. I'm very worried given this huge influx of
gun sales and when schools do start for real, you
know what's going to happen in this country Because we
know that that too many states don't require secure gun storage.
In those states that do, we see a lower number
(14:47):
of unintentional shootings of kids by kids, gun suicides. And
now for a quick break, now, Shannah, I don't want
to I don't want to leave this safety issue because
I'm really I really want to understand how you keep safe, right,
I mean, if anyone would be a target, it would
(15:09):
obviously be you. You had that first experience with the
police officer who said you were infringing on Second Amendment.
What what have you done since then to feel safe traveling,
to feel safe in your home, to protect your family. Yeah,
it is very bizarre. When I was traveling and before COVID,
you know, I was probably traveling three weeks out of
(15:30):
the month. Um I often had a security guard who
would travel with me. I would have to use an
alias all because I support something is common and as
um as widely supported as a background check on every
gun sale. But I have to say, you know, certainly
(15:51):
we do take measures to keep safe, you know, dog
security alarms, things like that. But I just refused to
be intimidated and I refused to be silenced and to
not do this work because there are gun extremists who
believe that you know everyone should have easy access to guns. Um,
(16:12):
people in America don't agree with that. That's not a
mainstream viewpoint, and we've got to make sure we get
back to a place of reason on this issue. I
would imagine there's a ton of politicians who are always
courting you because you have this giant group now of
six million moms right. What what could be more powerful
in terms of a politician wanting your support? How do
(16:33):
you navigate the world of politics to the advantage of
what the policies you're trying to to infiltrate and to change. Well,
we have a very simple motto, which is, uh, if
you do the right thing, we'll have your back. If
you do the wrong thing, we'll have your job. And
you have to show lawmakers that over and over again,
(16:55):
and it does take time. No one gets involved in
this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You constantly
are meeting with your lawmakers and making sure this issue
is top of mind. Um. You you hold them accountable
when they do the wrong thing. Especially on social media,
it's such a great tool for busy moms right to
use a hashtag to shame their lawmakers who who are
(17:16):
voting for a bad bill or so, you know, we
we have pulled the lever of power, levers of power
that are available to us right now. Women only are
about of all lawmakers, were less than five percent of
fortune one thousand ceo s. But we're the majority of
the voting public and we make about the spending decisions
(17:37):
for our families. So those are the levers of power
that we can pull. And it's what we do every day,
all day long. You use social media a lot, and
I love hearing you mentioned it and talking about becoming
and being a political powerhouse because I think it's so important. Yeah,
you know, I, UM, I didn't have many Twitter followers
until when Donald Trump won and I just decided, you know,
(17:58):
screw it. I'm going to use my my real voice
when I talk about these issues. And I have a
lot of opinions on a lot of issues, and and
I am trained as a reporter, and so I have
sort of mastered the two sixty character SoundBite, UM, which
which makes you a popular follower on Twitter. And I train,
(18:21):
and we train as an organization other volunteers to do
the same thing because it is so important UM to
to show up and mass and and to have a presence,
but also to correct misinformation. I think it's such an
important way for women to be political in this country.
Um is on Twitter and on on Instagram and other
(18:43):
social media platforms where they can have a voice and
tell their stories. I feel so strongly about that. So
it is Amy too, And I think, you know, one
of the things that always amazes me. And I feel
like it's becoming so absolute as someone who will say, oh,
I don't get involved in politics, and it's kind of like, well,
politics is involved with you, Like it's no longer acceptable
(19:03):
to say you don't get involved. And I think Twitter
is such a great community because sometimes I feel like, oh,
my non Twitter friends don't get me because I like
you Shannon and Amy. We all spend a lot of
time on Twitter. But you are running such a giant organization.
And I know something that that Amy and I struggle
with this. How do you manage you know, how much
time you're supposed to be spending on social media and
(19:24):
responding to people and catching things and then obviously running
your company or organization. How do you think about that?
Is that just something that is your primary thing? You're
like managing social media all day while other things are
coming in you always have it up or how do
you how do you manage that in your life? You know,
I say some people like play candy crush or have
(19:45):
time to read, and I just feel that time with
Twitter and it is really important. I think that someone
in your organization is keeping an eye on your handle,
you know, what are people saying about you? And I'll
just give you an example. Um, this past weekend, I
noticed there was this fake racist meme with our logo
on it that was everywhere. Every time I searched the
(20:06):
Mom's man handle it was and and and it was
these gun extremists alleging we had made it. And then
there were verified influencers who were just sharing it without
doing the research. And I was having to find each
of them and retweet it and say this is racist
and fake and then also comment right. And eventually Reuters
(20:26):
wrote an article about it this morning. But it's it's
it's really part of brand awareness and protection and and
a lot of that these days plays out in social media.
Talk to us about money and how you have funded
your organization and are you always raising money or does
that have cycles? Yeah, so this is interesting. UM My
(20:51):
husband agreed when I first started Mom's ma in action
that that I would be a volunteer. That was sort
of my desire, right. I put a lot of my
own money into the organization in the beginning, but I
realized probably six months in that we would need a partner.
This just wasn't sustainable. There was no way some lady
from Indiana that nobody knew could fundraise and and keep
(21:15):
this organization going UM and so I started interviewing organizations
inside and outside the space, so women's organizations that might
want a grassroots movement, UM, a gun safety organizations. Ultimately,
UH there was an organization called Mayors Against Illegal Guns,
which was started by the Boston mayor, Mayor Menino and
(21:38):
Mayor Mike Bloomberg from New York, and they were doing
some similar work out there. I was seeing them show
up in communities and trying to after the federal legislation
failed to pass state and municipal legislation and policies, and
so that was just a conversation that clicked. We had
a lot of the same goals and my has been
(22:00):
very generous. That first year, he gave us fifty million dollars, which,
as you can imagine, turbocharged our our work and our efforts. UM.
And since then, you know, he's continued to be very generous,
but we are now actually bringing in more from our
individual donors than than we get from Mike. So I
think in order for an organization to be healthy and
(22:22):
again to last into perpetuity, you have to have every
American feel like they have a stake in it. And
and that's how we do the fundraising. And how how
has Mike involved in the day to day or what
is his role with the organization. Well, you know, Mike
has a lot of issues that he cares a lot about,
thankfully this is one of them. UM. But but John
(22:43):
Findblad is our president at every Town for Gun Safety.
John and I work closely together, um on the organization
and um you know, have had sort of a partnership
now for almost eight years. So when you are doing
your work and I feel this sometimes like you just
us feel like you're pouring something in a glass and
someone else is pouring it out right, it can feel
(23:04):
like that, especially you know, the last time I saw
you was right before COVID, and it was such a
different time in terms of what you were probably thinking about.
And you had no idea that you were then heading
into a period where people were buying guns and droves
to allegedly protect themselves from a pandemic. Which that which
(23:26):
actually seems insane right when you when you when you
talk about it that way, But how do you not
have that come your way and feel, oh, my goodness,
all my work you know for not like, how do
you sit every day and just stay positive? I'm positive
because I see all of the good work that's going on. Again,
(23:48):
this is a marathon, not a sprint. You don't get
into this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You
know you're gonna lose. Thankfully, we win more than we lose.
Our organization calls it losing forward. Um. We have passed
background checks now in twenty two states. We have passed
red flag laws in nineteen states. We have disarmed domestic
abusers in twenty nine states. And the work that is
(24:12):
getting done is important in life saving and I really
do think it's just a matter of time until we
have the laws we need at a federal level. This
is really heavy and hard work. Are you ever able
to step away and take time for yourself? Yeah? It is,
And you know a lot of what I do on
social media is tell the stories that no one would
(24:32):
necessarily see, you know, and um, I find for some
reason it hits home hardest for me because I'm always
seeing young men who are about my son's age that
are shot and killed, and those are the stories that
seem to stick with me the most. And you know,
I have the kind of personality where things often make
me angry and that's what fuels me, and I can
(24:54):
I can just be fueled by that and not feel
depressed or sad, just kind of angry. But then, you know,
I can remember last Christmas Eve, UM, my husband and
I were at a hotel and for some reason I
saw this this boy again, a young teen boy who
(25:14):
had been shot and killed at a university in North Carolina,
and his girlfriend posted this incredibly moving Instagram story about
his life. And that was it. Like I was in
bed that whole day crime and my husband kind of
looked at me, like, you know, what's going on? And
I do think that that in this country we struggle
with this secondhand PTSD because there is so much gun violence,
(25:35):
and then when you're doing this work on top of it,
it can be really hard. But you know. I guess
I would say two things. One is self care is
really important and it's something we talk about all the
time in our organization, and and how to do that.
Um I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's
a relay race too, so you've got to pass the
baton when you need to. And the other thing I
(25:55):
would say is, you know, I'm doing this work as
a non gun violence survivor. Thankfully, I have never been
impacted personally by gun violence, but so many people I
work with have and they wake up and they still
do this work every single day, and certainly if they can,
I can't too. What was your husband's real reaction. I mean,
I understand he was like, what's going on? But he
(26:16):
also must have been pretty annoyed. I mean, you're on vacation.
Before you know, you're in bed crying and again. And
it's not like a story he hasn't heard before. He
hears these stories from you every day. So how how
does it impact your relationship and what's his role in that? Well,
you know, because this is both of our second marriage,
we committed at the beginning that we would go to
marriage therapy no matter what every two weeks even if
(26:40):
things seemed fantastic, which as just you know if for
anyone who goes to merriage therapy, you know that even
if things seem fantastic, you find something to complain about
during your session, but you know, being able to talk
about that. I can remember we had a conversation about
that incident in therapy where I think he was kind
of like, I didn't really get it, and I felt like, why, why,
(27:01):
why weren't you more comforting? Why didn't you get it?
And I thought the therapist was really helpful in that
she said, you know, some people can't take in this
information at all and would be like this any time
they heard any of these stories. And Shannon does this
and it sort of builds up and this is what happens.
(27:21):
And I think that helped him understand, oh, this is
going to happen occasionally, or when it happens, this is
why it's happening. That's a great analogy that the build up,
what are what are the kinds of things that get
you upset? On the other end with him, yes, well,
(27:42):
since COVID started, I will tell you he is a
very loud talker on conference and zoom calls which I did.
I mean, I can he can be in the basement
and I am upstairs and I can hear every word.
And I don't know if that's grounds for divorce, but
really I have to say that that Covid has made
our marriage so much. It's just we're so close right
(28:04):
now and it has been wonderful. And he has just
gone on his first business trip in seven months and
he called me and he said, my god, I've left
the pod. I want to come back to the pod.
So you know, there are very very few things to
complain about with him, but he is a loud talker.
How did you, I mean by going back before you
met your husband, how did you make it work as
(28:26):
a single mom of three little kids? Working? It was
not easy? And you know, I my my husband, my
ex husband is such a great co parent and and
such a good dad and so incredibly helpful. You know,
our issue was never that we didn't like each other,
was that we got married too young. Um. And so
(28:49):
you know, he he was fantastic and UM has been
all along. In fact, when I said we we had moved,
you know, he moved to when we moved States. So, UM,
it's been it's that certainly has made it easier. Um,
but you know, I think it's it's important that dad's
stepdad's chip in and and do as much of the
(29:11):
heavy lifting. My husband does all the cooking, I do
all the laundry, uh and and everyone just has to
find their niche. Fam and I are both in marriages
where there's a lot of co parenting and a lot
of sharing and responsibility. I don't think it wouldn't work otherwise.
So we're big advocates that you can't reach your your
full full potential unless you have a partner at home
(29:33):
or if you're single, right, but if you are saddled
with a very sort of unjust division of labor, it's
very hard to reach any I also think there's something
to be said for three or more parents, you know.
I mean, it's like man on man defense. It makes
sense although you together have five children, correct, Yes, my
(29:58):
husband has two and I have three. Mike, it there
between seventeen months and six and I won't remember any
of this. I go through life and I'm like, I'm
not gonna remember this in five years. I don't remember
any of that either. I'm like in the teen years
and I can't remember yesterday, let alone like five years ago.
A right, Harry menopause wipes all of it out. And
(30:20):
now for a quick break. When when you think about,
you know, post COVID, you're back out in the world,
what's something that now that you've had, you know, perspective
and you're not traveling three weeks a month, what's something
that you would like to accomplish that you haven't yet.
I would love to learn to speak Spanish. Not that
I'm going to learn Spanish before we're all vaccinated, but
(30:42):
but maybe I could just get immersed. Now we we
are going to go to our lightning round where we
do it, but just speed questions. But before we do,
I have one last question for you, which is what
would you say to someone who's listening and thanks. I
want to advocate for x y Z cause I'm passionate
about it. Whether it's it's gun violence, or whether it's
lgbt Q rights, or whether it's gender, whatever it is,
(31:06):
what would you say to someone who's afraid to use
their voice because of what other people will think or
how it might impact their home life, or their careers
or their social life. I just think if you look
at the state the country is in right now. We
all have a moral obligation, a moral imperative to speak up,
to speak out, frankly, to run for office. You know,
(31:28):
I think too many women are not jumping into the arena.
And I don't care if you run for sheriff or
coroner or school board, run for something, because again we're
we only hold you know about the five thousand elected
positions in this country. It is just if we want
(31:50):
to shape a more just and fair and equitable and
kind world for our children and their children and our
commune pities, then we have to get involved. You know.
That's what I learned when I got off the sidelines
to get involved in this issue, and I wrote a
book called Fight Like a Mother. The reason I wrote
the book was because I wanted it to be partly
(32:12):
a manual of how other people, particularly women, could do.
This could replicate what I did, even if it's just
in their neighborhood, and it could be on any issue. UM.
I wanted to remember and write down what happened from
the very beginning and encourage other women to be activists.
I certainly never saw myself as one until Mom's to
(32:34):
man action. And do you want to kick us off
with our lightning round. Now, what is your favorite breakfast?
Every day? I eat cinnamon special k and almond monk,
but I would rather have a breakfast sandwich. I just
don't know how to make one. My husband just got
(32:57):
a breakfast sandwich maker. Then he makes for the kids
and actually can't stand them. But I got it for
him for I think, for Father's Day from all of us,
and it was really a gift to the kid. There's
something called a breakfast sandwich maker. Yes, I will send
you the link. I'll send you the link, and it
literally will change your life. You just put the English
muffon and it takes like it's really easy. My mouth
is watering. So what are you watching on TV these days? Oh?
(33:21):
All the Housewives franchises again, give me, cut me some
slack because it's covid um queen scambit. It was wonderful.
I'm getting ready to watch The Crown. I like The Undoing.
Oh the Undoing so good. Road Kill is It is
an English political drama that's also funny. It's excellent. Okay,
(33:44):
I'm writing that one down and we are actually almost
out of time, so I want to make sure we
have time for our male perspective, Lou Burns, lu are
you with us? Yes, I am so, Shannon. Lou has
been listening and he did not His thing is he
doesn't do any rees urged before the episode, so he
just learned about you through the episode and then he
(34:04):
asked his his big question, Hall, Hi, Shannon, you're doing
some really good work. Um. My my niece and god
daughter was was a student at Marjorie Stone Stoneman Douglas School. UM,
and we got a call the next day finding out
that she was in class that day and I had
(34:25):
a great talk with her, and I have I have
a question that's kind of loaded on both ends. But
I was looking at the Vegas one where almost four
hundred and eleven people were killed in like over eight
hundred were injured, you know, and this gentleman, you know,
no one would ever imagine he would have ever did
(34:48):
something like that. So my question is it's like, would
a background check really prevent more gun violence? So, you know,
background checks are remo most important foundational part of a
gun safety system, which we we don't have in this country.
Background checks simply prevent people who shouldn't have guns from
(35:12):
getting them. So in this country, if you buy a
gun from a licensed dealer, for example Walmart, you have
to have a background check. That system works. It stops
millions of people who shouldn't have guns from getting them.
Where the system falls down is that federal law does
not require unlicensed dealers to perform a background check. So
(35:33):
if you are a domestic abuser in more than half
the states in this country, all you have to do
is go to a gun show or arrange a gun
sale online and get a gun, no questions asked. So
we know that background checks are foundational and would save
a huge number of lives right away. Thank you so much,
Thank you so much, Shannon, Thank you. So I think
(35:56):
what's so amazing about Shannon and I you really can't
get enough. But the story is just how she mobilized
so many people with She had such a tiny, tiny
community on Facebook, and as she said, you know, as
six million people as part of our community. It's it's
really inspirational. It is inspirational, and I think it's a
lesson to us all that even if we feel like
(36:18):
we're beginning from nothing, we can build something really important
and something really big. Um And along those lines of
sharing and building community, Sam, do not forget to send
Shannon the name of that breakfast sandwich maker. I won't.
Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
(36:38):
We would so appreciate if you would leave a review
wherever you get your podcasts, and of course, connect with
us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company,
The Riveter at the Riveter dot c O and Sam's company,
park Place Payments at park place Payments dot com. Thanks
to our producer Laurel Mogulin, our podcast associate m Hard,
(37:00):
and our male perspective Luberns
Hosts And Creators
Samantha Ettus
Amy Nelson
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