April 8, 2021 • 42 mins
In the wake of a flood of horrific gun violence, we’re resharing our episode with Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America. Learn about how Shannon became “the NRA’s worst nightmare” and her ambitious quest to end gun violence.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Join me Chelsea Arson on season three of my podcast,
Dear Young Rocker. Tune in to hear some of my
favorite musicians tell stories from their awkward musical beginnings, reconnect
(00:44):
with the teenager they used to be, and remember what
it's like to fall in love with your favorite band
for the first time. Listen to Dear Young Rocker Season
three on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sam Edis and
I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's Her Story with Sam
(01:06):
and Amy. This is a show about the world's most
remarkable women their professional and personal journeys. Together, we'll hear
from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders of the
world's most iconic brands. Today, we get to talk to
Shannon Watt, who, for many people is an icon of
(01:26):
gun violence prevention in America. Those of you who heard
our episode with Marcia Cross, she was brought to tears
at the mere mention of Shannon Watts because of what
she has done for so many people. She created Mom's
Demand Action for gun since in America. It's easy to
see why Marcia really admire Shannon. I do too, you know, Sam,
(01:46):
I don't think we've ever talked about this, but I
grew up in Ohio, a suburb of Columbus, and when
I was a teenager in high school, um, two of
my classmates were playing with a father's gun and one
killed the other accidentally, and there was really no conversation
about it either in our community, by our teachers, by parents.
(02:08):
And I now know right there was this missing voice.
We didn't have the voice of a parent who wanted
to keep their children safe in my community or in
the national arena. And that's why I'm so excited for
this conversation. So the n r A has called you
their worst nightmare. You now have five million supporters. How
did this all begin? Well, you know, I will say
(02:30):
that I call myself the n r a's worst nightmare.
I really do think that they never wanted women and
mothers to organize in this country against them. That that
that was literally the worst nightmare. And when Sandy Hook happened,
I was a stay at home mom in um suburban Indiana,
(02:52):
right outside of Indianapolis. And I had been home for
about five years, taking a break from my corporate career
U because my husband and I were blending our families
and we had five kids altogether, and I was just
getting ready to go back to work to think about
looking for a job. And I can remember very clearly,
you know, it was December fourteen, two thousand and twelve,
(03:14):
a very cold day. I was folding laundry, watching the TV,
and suddenly there was breaking news that there was an
active shooter in a place called Newtown, Connecticut, in an
elementary school. And like the rest of the country, I
was devastated and riveted and just um overwhelmed by what
(03:36):
I was seeing unfold on my television. But then Over
the next day, I was enraged because I was seeing
pundits and politicians come on to talk about what had happened,
and they were saying that the solution was somehow more guns.
But somehow four million guns and and very few gun laws.
(03:58):
UM was not the is of this, right, it was
it was not enough guns and maybe even too many
gun laws. And I didn't know anything about organizing. I
didn't know anything about gun violence. UM. I just knew
that that was a lie. And then that day, the
next day, December fifteenth, I started a Facebook page that
(04:18):
grew into Mom's Demand Action And how did you just
you started the Facebook page? How did people find you?
I had seventy five Facebook friends and so yeah, so
many UM. And I really don't know who I thought
I was talking to, because again I didn't have that
(04:41):
many followers, and and I didn't really know what a
viral moment was, right, I didn't even have a Twitter handle.
I just was outraged, and I knew how to create
a Facebook page. It was lightning in a bottle, right
My My Facebook UM was suddenly overwhelmed with ms from
mostly women all across the country who were saying, I
(05:04):
want to do this where I live. And I'm not
talking about just you know, Brooklyn and uh San Francisco.
I'm talking about Houston and and the Carolinas in Chicago
and you know all of the city's rural and urban
um and in between, and and we just came together
as perfect strangers and started organizing online and eventually offline.
(05:28):
Can you take us back through that moment? So you
wake up the next day and suddenly there's a spiral
thing and you have all of these people across the
country that want to be part of this. How did
you even just those first three months? How did you
organize it? When I was in corporate communications as an executive,
my job was to manage people all across the world
who who were working in communications too. It just seemed
(05:52):
logical to me, based on that experience, to organize people
by state so that they owned the work I wanted
to do where they lived, and so you would do
national work and you would do local work, and really
are our focus in those first few months was just
trying to pass federal legislation on this issue. There was
something called the Mansion Too Me Bill, which is a
(06:13):
bipartisan piece of legislation that would have closed the background
check loophole that we have in this country which allows
unlicensed gun sales without a background check, for example, gun shows,
online garage sales. I knew that we needed to have
a look and a feel, branding, messaging, UM, that we
needed to be present where people were on social media.
(06:36):
I also want to say that so many brilliant, perfect
strangers came to the table with their own skill sets,
whether it was organizing or um, they were lawyers or
they were website developers. I mean it ran the gamut,
and so without all of that help, you know, we
never would have been able to succeed. So you find
(06:59):
yourself running this organization that you didn't anticipate. What was
your personal life like at that point? I mean, how
did you even have the child care necessary to suddenly
run this organization. My kids were a little bit older
when this happened, so they ranged an age from elementary
to middle to high school to college. And that was
part of my blended families. My my stepdaughter is older
(07:21):
my two stepdaughters, UM, and so they weren't tiny, which
was certainly helpful. But there was a real shift. I mean,
it was a seismic shift in my in my marriage,
in my parenting style, um, in my life. I can remember,
you know, probably a month in laying on the floor crying,
(07:42):
looking at the closet, thinking like what have I done?
Because I had never been busier in my corporate life.
I was working from the moment I woke up till
the moment I went to bed on this issue, and
that included weekends. I look back now with perspective and
can say that it was a really dramatic but also
(08:03):
important change in my life. Certainly, UM, my ex husband
who I co parent with, he had to step up.
My husband had to step up, and they were doing
things that that frankly, they probably should have been joining anyway. UM.
And and also you know, I always say that the
amount of energy and passion I put into mom's manaction
(08:26):
I was probably putting into my kids lives and homework,
which isn't that healthy either. So it was a big
change for everyone. But you know, I get asked the
question all the time, did you feel absent? Did you
feel guilty? And sure I had those feelings, but I
knew the work I was doing was incredibly important. I
(08:48):
knew I was a role model to my kids, and
I will tell you, now, I've been doing this for
almost eight years. I just sent my very last kid
to college. They never say, hey you missed this soccer game,
or hey you didn't show up at this holiday event.
What they say is remember that telling with you to
thatot rally, or well, mom, you know, I'm so proud
(09:09):
of you. And I hope that other mothers hear that
and know that that that when you do things that
fuel yourself and your passion, it only benefits your kids.
I love that you said that because I tell moms
all the time, if you talk to adult children of
working moms, there's no prouder group that will talk about
(09:30):
their parents careers and brag about their careers and what
they learned. And you know, there's a reason that daughters
of working moms or more as adults than daughters to
stay at home moms. And I think the more of
that message gets out there from people like you, the
better off we all are. And I think that one
of the incredible things about what you're doing is there's
this legacy factor of you know, even after you're done
(09:54):
with this work, other people can take that on. Is
that something you think about a lot? How to pass
the torch. I think it's such a great question, um,
because I talk a lot to volunteers, I write about
it in my book by Like a Mother. But but
to me, this has been all along part of a
Buddhist practice. I am Buddhist, and there's there's so much
(10:20):
to be learned about trying to put your ego aside,
and it is hard, right and I can tell you
I have I have stumbled, and I have faltered, and
I have failed so many times along the way. But
my goal is always that this organization is not about
me or any specific person. It is about the cause.
It is about gun violence survivors, and that it would
(10:40):
last into perpetuity. This issue isn't going away anytime in
the near future in this country, and we need not
only new and younger volunteers that are that are women
and moms obviously, but also now we have students to
man action. Um. You know. I also talked about the
fact that when I started this organization, I was a
white suburban mom living in a bubble. I did not
(11:03):
realize that a hundred Americans are shot and killed every day.
And I started Moms because I was scared my kids
weren't safe in their schools, and yet you know, there
are black women who have been shouting this from the
rooftops for decades with very two little, no two, no attention.
And it's really important also, you know, as we grow,
(11:24):
I think that there's an important role for white women
to do the work that we should have been doing
for so long, but also to listen to to black
and brown women who really are at the center of
this this pain in this issue. You started Mom's Band
action in Indiana. What were your neighbors. What was the
reaction of your neighbors in your community. I can remember
(11:47):
my kids not wanting to tell people that I what
I did, because you know, it was such a hot point.
I always tell the story of um, when I first
started doing this work, I had all these trolls attacking
me because you know, all my information was public. So
they were calling me and emailing me and texting me
and uh sending letters to my house and driving by
(12:08):
my house. And so I figured, you know, I should
call the local police department and just give them a
heads up and let them know what's going on. And
the police officer, who you know, I explained what was
going on, and he said, well, you know, ma'am, that's
what you get when you mess with the Second Amendment.
And that was such a wake up call. You know
that that the people that I think are there to
(12:29):
protect me have an opinion on this issue, and that
if it doesn't go along with mine, it may make
me more vulnerable. And and and really, I think many
of us in this movement have had that kind of
moment where we had to decide, Okay, are we gonna
We're gonna back down or we're gonna double down? You know,
I mean people Open Caring show up at Mom's Man
(12:50):
Action events all over the country all the time because
it's legal, you know, in in over forty states. So
they'll show up with a semi automatic rifle to try
to intimidate our volunteers. And so all of us have
had those moments of am I going to allow gun
extremists to intimidate and silence me? Or am I going
to to ignore it and let it become like white noise?
(13:12):
Because I know that lives are on the line, and frankly,
if we lose our children, you know, we have nothing
left to lose. What world do gun owners plan? The organization?
Because you know, I've I've read a lot about Mom's
Demand Action and been a part of it, and you know,
the very clear statement is that the organization is not
anti guns, anti gun violence. Right, many of our our volunteers,
(13:33):
particularly in rural areas or red states, are our gun
owners or their partners are gun owners. Um. You know,
even here in California where I live. I mean more
guns are sold in the state of California than any
other state in the country, including Texas. So odds are
you know a gun owner? Um? And the vast majority
of them are responsible. But again, we've been allowing the
(13:56):
gun lobby and gun extremists to write our gun loss
in this country for decades, and it's why we have
a twenty times higher gun homicide rate than any other
high income country. It's why, you know, there aren't laws
requiring people in many states to report lost and stolen guns.
It's why we have such a culture of unsecure gun storage. Right.
(14:19):
What name another country where toddler's shoot and kill their
parents by accident. Um. And so there's just so much
work that needs to be done around restoring the responsibilities
that should go along with gun rights. And that doesn't
make you anti gun. Can you tell us a little
more about gun storage, because I know that's a huge
issue and I think that it's it's a catchphrase that
(14:42):
some of our listeners might not be aware of the issue. Yes,
and and it's an important discussion right now because there
was a historic number of gun sales March through July
of this year, historic millions and millions of guns sold,
many to first time buyers who may live in states
that don't require training or background checks, um and may
(15:03):
not know how to securely store a firearm. Secure gun
storage is incredibly important right now. That simply means your
guns are locked, unloaded, and separate from ammunition. That's how
guns should be stored. When when children are around, um
and most school shooters in this country are actually students,
And where do they get their guns. They get them
(15:25):
from home and they're not secured. I'm very worried given
this huge influx of gun sales and when schools do
start for real, you know what's going to happen in
this country because we know that that too many states
don't require secure gun storage. In those states that do,
(15:45):
we see a lower number of unintentional shootings of kids
by kids, gun suicides, and now for a quick break.
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our a Wellness dot Co. Now, Shannah, I don't want
(17:13):
to I don't want to leave this safety issue because
I'm really I really want to understand how you keep safe, right,
I mean, if anyone would be a target, it would
obviously be you. You had that first experience with the
police officer who said you were infringing on Second Amendment.
What what have you done since then to feel safe traveling,
(17:34):
to feel safe in your home, to protect your family. Yeah,
it's very bizarre. When I was traveling and before COVID,
you know, I was probably traveling three weeks out of
the month. Um I often had a security guard who
would travel with me. I would have to use an
alias all because I support something is common and as
(17:57):
um as whyly supported as a background check on every
gun sale. But I have to say, you know, certainly
we do take measures to keep safe, you know, dog
security alarms and things like that. But I just refused
to be intimidated. I refused to be silenced and to
(18:17):
not do this work because there are gun extremists who
believe that, you know, everyone should have easy access to guns. Um,
people in America don't agree with that. That's not a
mainstream viewpoint, and we've got to make sure we get
back to a place of reason on this issue. I
would imagine there's a ton of politicians who are always
(18:37):
courting you because you have this giant group now of
six million moms right. What what could be more powerful
in terms of a politician wanting your support? How do
you navigate the world of politics to the advantage of
what the policies you're trying to to infiltrate and to change. Well,
(18:58):
we have a very simple motto, which is, uh, if
you do the right thing, we'll have your back. If
you do the wrong thing, we'll have your job. And
you have to show lawmakers that over and over again.
And it does take time. No one gets involved in
this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You constantly
are meeting with your lawmakers and making sure this issue
is top of mind. Um. You you hold them accountable
(19:22):
when they do the wrong thing. Especially on social media,
it's such a great tool for busy moms right to
use a hashtag to shame their lawmakers who who are
voting for a bad bill or so, you know, we
we have pulled the lever of power, levers of power
that are available to us right now. Women only are
about of all lawmakers, were less than five of fortune
(19:45):
one th CEO s. But we're the majority of the
voting public and we make about the spending decisions for
our families. So those are the levers of power that
we can pull. And it's what we do every day,
all day long. You use such the media a lot,
and I love hearing you mentioned and talking about becoming
and being a political powerhouse because I think it's so important. Yeah,
(20:06):
you know, UM, I didn't have many Twitter followers until
when Donald Trump won and I just decided, you know,
screw it, I'm going to use my my real voice
when I talk about these issues. And I have a
lot of opinions on a lot of issues, and and
I am trained as a reporter, and so I have
sort of mastered the two sixty character SoundBite, UM, which
(20:29):
which makes you a popular follower on Twitter. And I
train and we train as an organization other volunteers to
do the same thing because it is so important, UM
to to show up and mass and and to have
a presence, but also to correct misinformation. I think it's
(20:50):
such an important way for women to be political in
this country. Um is on Twitter and on on Instagram
and other social media platforms where they can have a
voice and tell their stories. I feel so strongly about that.
So it is Amy too, And I think, you know,
one of the things that always amazes me. And I
feel like it's so becoming so obsolete as someone who
(21:11):
will say, oh, I don't get involved in politics, and
it's kind of like, well, politics is involved with you.
Like it's no longer acceptable to say you don't get involved.
And I think Twitter is such a great community because
sometimes I feel like, oh, my non Twitter friends don't
get me because I like you Shannon and Amy. We
all spend a lot of time on Twitter. But you
are running such a giant organization. And I know something
(21:34):
that that Amy and I struggle with this. How do
you manage you know, how much time you're supposed to
be spending on social media and responding to people and
catching things and then obviously running your company, your organization.
How do you think about that? Is that just something
that is your primary thing? You're like managing social media
all day while other things are coming in you always
have it up or how do you how do you
(21:55):
manage that in your life? You know, I say some
people like play candy crush or have time to read
and I just fill that time with Twitter. And it
is really important. I think that someone in your organization
is keeping an eye on your handle. You know, what
are people saying about you? And I'll just give you
an example. Um this past weekend, I noticed there was
this fake racist meme with our logo on it that
(22:18):
was everywhere. Every time I searched the Mom's man handle
it was and and and it was these gun extremists
alleging we had made it. And then there were verified
influencers who were just sharing it without doing the research,
and I was having to find each of them and
retweet it and say this is racist and fake and
(22:38):
then also comment right And eventually Reuters wrote an article
about it this morning. But it's it's it's really part
of brand awareness and protection and and a lot of
that these days plays out in social media. Talk to
us about money and how you have funded your organization
and are you always raising money or does that have cycles? Yeah,
(23:03):
So this is interesting. UM. My husband agreed when I
first started Mom's to Me in Action that that I
would be a volunteer. That was sort of my desire, right.
I put a lot of my own money into the
organization in the beginning, but I realized probably six months
in that we would need a partner. This just wasn't sustainable.
(23:24):
There was no way some lady from Indiana that nobody
knew could fundraise and and keep this organization going. UM.
And so I started interviewing organizations inside and outside the space,
so women's organizations that might want a grassroots movement, UM,
a gun safety organizations. Ultimately, UH, there was an organization
(23:46):
called Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which was started by the
Boston mayor, Mayor Menino and Mayor Mike Bloomberg from New York,
and they were doing some similar work out there. I
was seeing them show up and unities and trying to
after the federal legislation failed to pass state and municipal
(24:07):
legislation and policies, and so that was just a conversation
that clicked. We had a lot of the same goals
and Mike has been very generous. That first year, he
gave us fifty million dollars, which, as you can imagine,
turbocharged our our work and our efforts. UM. And since then,
you know, he's continued to be very generous, but we
are now actually bringing in more from our individual donors
(24:33):
than than we get from Mike. So I think in
order for an organization to be healthy and again to
last into perpetuity, you have to have every American feel
like they have a stake in it. And and that's
how we do the fundraising. And how how has Mike
involved in the day to day or what is his
role with the organization. Well, you know, Mike has a
(24:53):
lot of issues that he cares a lot about, thankfully
this is one of them. UM. But but John Findblad
is our president at every time for gun safety. John
and I work closely together, um on the organization and
um you know, have had sort of a partnership now
for almost eight years. So when you are doing your
work and I feel this sometimes like you just feel
(25:15):
like you're pouring something in a glass and someone else
is pouring it out right, it can feel like that.
Especially you know, the last time I saw you was
right before COVID, and it was such a different time
in terms of what you were probably thinking about, and
you had no idea that you were then heading into
a period where people were buying guns and droves to
(25:36):
allegedly protect themselves from a pandemic, which that which actually
seems insane right when you when you when you talk
about it that way. But how do you not have
that come your way and feel, oh, my goodness, all
my work you know for not like, how do you
sit every day and just stay positive? I'm positive because
(26:00):
I see all of the good work that's going on. Again,
this is a marathon, not a sprint. You don't get
into this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You
know you're gonna lose. Thankfully, we win more than we lose.
Our organization calls it losing forward. Um. We have passed
background checks now in twenty two states. We have passed
red flag laws in nineteen states. We have disarmed domestic
(26:22):
abusers in twenty nine states. And the work that is
getting done is important in life saving and I really
do think it's just a matter of time until we
have the laws we need at a federal level. This
is really heavy and hard work. Are you ever able
to step away and take time for yourself. Yeah it is.
(26:43):
And you know a lot of what I do on
social media is tell the stories that no one would
necessarily see, you know, And um, I find for some
reason it hits home hardest for me because I'm always
seeing young men who are about my son's age that
are shot and killed, and those are the stories that
seemed to stick with me the most. And you know,
(27:04):
I have the kind of personality where things often make
me angry and that's what fuels me, and I can
I can just be fueled by that and not feel
depressed or sad, just kind of angry. But then, you know,
I can remember last Christmas Eve, Um, my husband and
I were at a hotel and for some reason I
(27:25):
saw this this boy again, a young teen boy who
had been shot and killed at a university in North Carolina,
and his girlfriend posted this incredibly moving Instagram story about
his life, and that was it. Like I was in
bed that whole day crime and my husband kind of
looked at me, like, you know, what's going on? And
I do think that that in this country we struggle
(27:46):
with this secondhand PTSD because there is so much gun violence.
And then when you're doing this work on top of it.
It can be really hard, But you know, I guess
I would say two things. One is self care is
really important and it's something we talk about all the
time in our organization and in how to do that.
Um I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's
(28:06):
a relay race too, so you've got to pass the
baton when you need to. And the other thing I
would say is, you know, I'm doing this work as
a non gun violence survivor. Thankfully, I have never been
impacted personally by gun violence, but so many people I
work with have and they wake up and they still
do this work every single day, and and certainly if
they can, I can't too. What was your husband's real reaction.
(28:29):
I mean, I understand he was like, what's going on?
But he also must have been pretty annoyed. I mean,
you're on vacation. Before you know, you're in bed crying
and again. And it's not like a story he hasn't
heard before. He hears these stories from you every day.
So how how does it impact your relationship and what's
his role in that? Well, you know, because this is
both of our second marriage, we committed at the beginning
(28:50):
that we would go to marriage therapy no matter what.
Every two weeks, even if things seemed fantastic, which as
just you know for anyone who goes to marriage therapy,
you know that even of things seemed fantastic, you find
something to complain about during your session, but you know,
being able to talk about that. I can remember we
had a conversation about that incident in therapy where I
(29:10):
think he was kind of like, I didn't really get it,
and I felt like, why, why, why weren't you more comforting?
Why didn't you get it? And I thought the therapist
was really helpful in that she said, you know, some
people can't take in this information at all and would
be like this any time they heard any of these stories.
(29:31):
And Shannon does this and it sort of builds up
and this is what happens. And I think that helped
him understand, oh, this is going to happen occasionally, or
when it happens, this is why it's happening. That's a
great analogy that the build up, what are what are
the kinds of things that get you upset? On the
other end with him, yes, well, since COVID started, I
(29:58):
will tell you he is a very talker on conference
and zoom calls, which I did. I mean, I can
he can be in the basement and I am upstairs
and I can hear every word. And I don't know
if that's grounds for divorce, but really I have to
say that that COVID has made our marriage so much.
It's just we're so close right now and it has
(30:20):
been wonderful. And he has just gone on his first
business trip in seven months and he called me and
he said, my god, I've left the pod. I meant
to come back to the pod. So you know, there
are very very few things to complain about with him,
but he is a loud talker. How did you, I mean,
but going back before you met your husband, how did
(30:40):
you make it work as a single mom of three
little kids? Working? It was not easy? And you know,
I my my husband, my ex husband, is such a
great co parent and and such a good dad and
so incredibly helpful. You know. Our issue was everr that
we didn't like you each other, was that we got
(31:01):
married too young. UM, And so you know, he he
was fantastic and UM has been all along. In fact,
when I said we had moved, you know, he moved
to when we moved States so um, it's been It's
that certainly has made it easier. Um, But you know,
I think it's it's important that dad's stepdad's chip in
(31:25):
and and do as much of the heavy lifting. My
husband does all the cooking, I do all the laundry.
Uh and and everyone just has to find their niche.
Fam and I are both in marriages where there's a
lot of coherenting and a lot of sharing and responsibility.
I don't think it wouldn't work otherwise. So we're big
advocates that you can't reach your your full full potential
(31:46):
unless you have a partner at home or if you're single, right,
but if you are saddled with a very sort of
unjust division of labor, it's very hard to reach any
I also think there's something to be said for three
or our parents, you know. I mean, it's like man
on man defense. It makes sense although you together have
(32:10):
five children, correct, Yes, my husband has two and I
have three. My kids are between seventeen months and six,
and I won't remember any of this. I go through
life and I'm like, I'm not gonna remember this in
five years. I don't remember any of that either. I'm like,
in the teen years and I can't remember yesterday, let
alone like five years ago, Harry menopause wipes all of
(32:31):
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(33:34):
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you know, post COVID, you're back out in the world,
what's something that now that you've had you know, perspective
and you're not traveling three weeks a month. What's something
(34:40):
that you would like to accomplish that you haven't yet.
I would love to learn to speak Spanish, not that
I'm going to learn Spanish before we're all vaccinated. But
but maybe I could just get immersed. Now we we
are going to go to our lightning row where we
do it, but just speed questions. But before we do,
I have one last question for you, which is what
would you say to some he's listening and thanks. I
(35:01):
want to advocate for x y Z cause I'm passionate
about it. Whether it's it's gun violence, or whether it's
lgbt Q rights, or whether it's gender or whatever it is.
What would you say to someone who's afraid to use
their voice because of what other people will think, or
how it might impact their home life, or their careers
or their social life. I just think, if you look
(35:24):
at the state the country is in right now, we
all have a moral obligation, a moral imperative to speak up,
to speak out, frankly, to run for office. You know,
I think too many women are not jumping into the arena.
And I don't care if you run for sheriff or
corner or school board, run for something, because again we're
(35:48):
we only hold you know, about the five thousand elected
positions in this country. It is just if we want
to shape a more just and fair and equitable and
kind world for our children and their children and our communities.
Then we have to get involved. You know. That's what
(36:09):
I learned when I got off the sidelines to get
involved in this issue, and I wrote a book called
Fight Like a Mother. The reason I wrote the book
was because I wanted it to be partly a manual
of how other people, particularly women, could do. This could
replicate what I did, even if it's just in their neighborhood,
and it could be on any issue. Um. I wanted
(36:31):
to remember and write down what happened from the very
beginning and encourage other women to be activists. I certainly
never saw myself as one until Mom's to be in action.
And do you want to kick us off with our
lightning round? Now? What is your favorite breakfast? Every day?
(36:52):
I eat cinnamon special k and almond monk, but I
would rather have a breakfast sandwich. I just don't know
how make one. My husband just got a breakfast sandwich maker.
Then he makes for the kids and actually can't stand them.
But I got it for him for I think for
Father's Day from all of us, and it was really
a gift to the kid. There's something called a breakfast
sandwich maker. Yes, I will send you the link. I'll
(37:15):
send you the link and it literally will change your life.
You just put the English muffon and it takes like
it's really easy. My mouth is watering. So what are
you watching on TV these days? Oh? All the housewives
franchises again, give me, cut me some slack because it's
covid um queen scambit. It was wonderful. I'm getting ready
(37:38):
to watch the Crown. I like the Undoing. Oh the
Undo so good. Road Kill is it is an English
political drama that's also funny. It's excellent. Okay, I'm writing
that one down and we are actually almost out of time,
so I want to make sure we have time for
our male perspective. Lou Burns, lu are you with us? Yes,
(37:59):
I am so, Shannon. Lou has been listening and he
did not his things. He doesn't do any research before
the episode, so he just learned about you through the episode,
and then he asked his his big question, Hi, Shannon,
you're doing some really good work. Um. My my niece
and god daughter was was a student at Marjorie Stone
(38:23):
Stoneman Douglas School. Um, and we got a call the
next day finding out that she was in class that
day and I had a great talk with her, and
I have have a question that's kind of loaded on
both ends. But I was looking at the Vegas one
where almost four hundred eleven people were killed in like
(38:45):
over eight hundred were injured, you know, and this gentleman,
you know, no one would ever imagine he would have
ever did something like that. So my question is, it's like,
would a background check really prevent more gun violence? So,
you know, background checks are the most important foundational part
(39:09):
of a gun safety system, which we we don't have
in this country. Background checks simply prevent people who shouldn't
have guns from getting them. So in this country, if
you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, for example Walmart,
you have to have a background check. That system works.
It stops millions of people who shouldn't have guns from
(39:29):
getting them. Where the system falls down is that federal
law does not require unlicensed dealers to perform a background check.
So if you are a domestic abuser in more than
half the states in this country, all you have to
do is go to a gun show or arrange a
gun sale online and get a gun, no questions asked.
So we know that background checks are foundational and would
(39:52):
save a huge number of lives right away. Thank you
so much. Thank you so much, Shannon, Thank you so
I think what's so amazing about Shannon, and I really
can't get enough of this story, is just how she
mobilized so many people with she had such a tiny,
tiny community on Facebook and as she said, you know,
(40:15):
as six million people as part of our community. It's
it's really inspirational. It is inspirational, and I think it's
a lesson to us all that even if we feel
like we're beginning from nothing, we can build something really
important and something really big. Um And along those lines
of sharing and building community, Sam, do not forget to
send Shannon the name of that breakfast sandwich maker. I won't.
(40:40):
Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
We would so appreciate if you would leave a view
wherever you get your podcasts, and of course connect with
us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company,
The Riveter at the Riveter dot c O and Sam's company,
park Place Payments at park place payments dot com. Thanks
(41:03):
to our producer, Laurel Moglin, our podcast associate Emma Hard
and our male perspective lue birds. Are you a gig
(41:33):
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of Committed, the only podcast that gives you a look
(41:55):
into the raw, intimate, hilarious, and often heartbreaking stories of
real marriage. Committed Season six will be launching on April fourteenth,
so be sure to subscribe and share Committed with all
of the people you think need marriage counseling. You can
listen to the Committed podcast on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Join me Chelsea Arson on season three of my podcast,
Dear Young Rocker. Tune in to hear some of my
favorite musicians tell stories from their awkward musical beginnings, reconnect
(00:44):
with the teenager they used to be, and remember what
it's like to fall in love with your favorite band
for the first time. Listen to Dear Young Rocker Season
three on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sam Edis and
I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's Her Story with Sam
(01:06):
and Amy. This is a show about the world's most
remarkable women their professional and personal journeys. Together, we'll hear
from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders of the
world's most iconic brands. Today, we get to talk to
Shannon Watt, who, for many people is an icon of
(01:26):
gun violence prevention in America. Those of you who heard
our episode with Marcia Cross, she was brought to tears
at the mere mention of Shannon Watts because of what
she has done for so many people. She created Mom's
Demand Action for gun since in America. It's easy to
see why Marcia really admire Shannon. I do too, you know, Sam,
(01:46):
I don't think we've ever talked about this, but I
grew up in Ohio, a suburb of Columbus, and when
I was a teenager in high school, um, two of
my classmates were playing with a father's gun and one
killed the other accidentally, and there was really no conversation
about it either in our community, by our teachers, by parents.
(02:08):
And I now know right there was this missing voice.
We didn't have the voice of a parent who wanted
to keep their children safe in my community or in
the national arena. And that's why I'm so excited for
this conversation. So the n r A has called you
their worst nightmare. You now have five million supporters. How
did this all begin? Well, you know, I will say
(02:30):
that I call myself the n r a's worst nightmare.
I really do think that they never wanted women and
mothers to organize in this country against them. That that
that was literally the worst nightmare. And when Sandy Hook happened,
I was a stay at home mom in um suburban Indiana,
(02:52):
right outside of Indianapolis. And I had been home for
about five years, taking a break from my corporate career
U because my husband and I were blending our families
and we had five kids altogether, and I was just
getting ready to go back to work to think about
looking for a job. And I can remember very clearly,
you know, it was December fourteen, two thousand and twelve,
(03:14):
a very cold day. I was folding laundry, watching the TV,
and suddenly there was breaking news that there was an
active shooter in a place called Newtown, Connecticut, in an
elementary school. And like the rest of the country, I
was devastated and riveted and just um overwhelmed by what
(03:36):
I was seeing unfold on my television. But then Over
the next day, I was enraged because I was seeing
pundits and politicians come on to talk about what had happened,
and they were saying that the solution was somehow more guns.
But somehow four million guns and and very few gun laws.
(03:58):
UM was not the is of this, right, it was
it was not enough guns and maybe even too many
gun laws. And I didn't know anything about organizing. I
didn't know anything about gun violence. UM. I just knew
that that was a lie. And then that day, the
next day, December fifteenth, I started a Facebook page that
(04:18):
grew into Mom's Demand Action And how did you just
you started the Facebook page? How did people find you?
I had seventy five Facebook friends and so yeah, so
many UM. And I really don't know who I thought
I was talking to, because again I didn't have that
(04:41):
many followers, and and I didn't really know what a
viral moment was, right, I didn't even have a Twitter handle.
I just was outraged, and I knew how to create
a Facebook page. It was lightning in a bottle, right
My My Facebook UM was suddenly overwhelmed with ms from
mostly women all across the country who were saying, I
(05:04):
want to do this where I live. And I'm not
talking about just you know, Brooklyn and uh San Francisco.
I'm talking about Houston and and the Carolinas in Chicago
and you know all of the city's rural and urban
um and in between, and and we just came together
as perfect strangers and started organizing online and eventually offline.
(05:28):
Can you take us back through that moment? So you
wake up the next day and suddenly there's a spiral
thing and you have all of these people across the
country that want to be part of this. How did
you even just those first three months? How did you
organize it? When I was in corporate communications as an executive,
my job was to manage people all across the world
who who were working in communications too. It just seemed
(05:52):
logical to me, based on that experience, to organize people
by state so that they owned the work I wanted
to do where they lived, and so you would do
national work and you would do local work, and really
are our focus in those first few months was just
trying to pass federal legislation on this issue. There was
something called the Mansion Too Me Bill, which is a
(06:13):
bipartisan piece of legislation that would have closed the background
check loophole that we have in this country which allows
unlicensed gun sales without a background check, for example, gun shows,
online garage sales. I knew that we needed to have
a look and a feel, branding, messaging, UM, that we
needed to be present where people were on social media.
(06:36):
I also want to say that so many brilliant, perfect
strangers came to the table with their own skill sets,
whether it was organizing or um, they were lawyers or
they were website developers. I mean it ran the gamut,
and so without all of that help, you know, we
never would have been able to succeed. So you find
(06:59):
yourself running this organization that you didn't anticipate. What was
your personal life like at that point? I mean, how
did you even have the child care necessary to suddenly
run this organization. My kids were a little bit older
when this happened, so they ranged an age from elementary
to middle to high school to college. And that was
part of my blended families. My my stepdaughter is older
(07:21):
my two stepdaughters, UM, and so they weren't tiny, which
was certainly helpful. But there was a real shift. I mean,
it was a seismic shift in my in my marriage,
in my parenting style, um, in my life. I can remember,
you know, probably a month in laying on the floor crying,
(07:42):
looking at the closet, thinking like what have I done?
Because I had never been busier in my corporate life.
I was working from the moment I woke up till
the moment I went to bed on this issue, and
that included weekends. I look back now with perspective and
can say that it was a really dramatic but also
(08:03):
important change in my life. Certainly, UM, my ex husband
who I co parent with, he had to step up.
My husband had to step up, and they were doing
things that that frankly, they probably should have been joining anyway. UM.
And and also you know, I always say that the
amount of energy and passion I put into mom's manaction
(08:26):
I was probably putting into my kids lives and homework,
which isn't that healthy either. So it was a big
change for everyone. But you know, I get asked the
question all the time, did you feel absent? Did you
feel guilty? And sure I had those feelings, but I
knew the work I was doing was incredibly important. I
(08:48):
knew I was a role model to my kids, and
I will tell you, now, I've been doing this for
almost eight years. I just sent my very last kid
to college. They never say, hey you missed this soccer game,
or hey you didn't show up at this holiday event.
What they say is remember that telling with you to
thatot rally, or well, mom, you know, I'm so proud
(09:09):
of you. And I hope that other mothers hear that
and know that that that when you do things that
fuel yourself and your passion, it only benefits your kids.
I love that you said that because I tell moms
all the time, if you talk to adult children of
working moms, there's no prouder group that will talk about
(09:30):
their parents careers and brag about their careers and what
they learned. And you know, there's a reason that daughters
of working moms or more as adults than daughters to
stay at home moms. And I think the more of
that message gets out there from people like you, the
better off we all are. And I think that one
of the incredible things about what you're doing is there's
this legacy factor of you know, even after you're done
(09:54):
with this work, other people can take that on. Is
that something you think about a lot? How to pass
the torch. I think it's such a great question, um,
because I talk a lot to volunteers, I write about
it in my book by Like a Mother. But but
to me, this has been all along part of a
Buddhist practice. I am Buddhist, and there's there's so much
(10:20):
to be learned about trying to put your ego aside,
and it is hard, right and I can tell you
I have I have stumbled, and I have faltered, and
I have failed so many times along the way. But
my goal is always that this organization is not about
me or any specific person. It is about the cause.
It is about gun violence survivors, and that it would
(10:40):
last into perpetuity. This issue isn't going away anytime in
the near future in this country, and we need not
only new and younger volunteers that are that are women
and moms obviously, but also now we have students to
man action. Um. You know. I also talked about the
fact that when I started this organization, I was a
white suburban mom living in a bubble. I did not
(11:03):
realize that a hundred Americans are shot and killed every day.
And I started Moms because I was scared my kids
weren't safe in their schools, and yet you know, there
are black women who have been shouting this from the
rooftops for decades with very two little, no two, no attention.
And it's really important also, you know, as we grow,
(11:24):
I think that there's an important role for white women
to do the work that we should have been doing
for so long, but also to listen to to black
and brown women who really are at the center of
this this pain in this issue. You started Mom's Band
action in Indiana. What were your neighbors. What was the
reaction of your neighbors in your community. I can remember
(11:47):
my kids not wanting to tell people that I what
I did, because you know, it was such a hot point.
I always tell the story of um, when I first
started doing this work, I had all these trolls attacking
me because you know, all my information was public. So
they were calling me and emailing me and texting me
and uh sending letters to my house and driving by
(12:08):
my house. And so I figured, you know, I should
call the local police department and just give them a
heads up and let them know what's going on. And
the police officer, who you know, I explained what was
going on, and he said, well, you know, ma'am, that's
what you get when you mess with the Second Amendment.
And that was such a wake up call. You know
that that the people that I think are there to
(12:29):
protect me have an opinion on this issue, and that
if it doesn't go along with mine, it may make
me more vulnerable. And and and really, I think many
of us in this movement have had that kind of
moment where we had to decide, Okay, are we gonna
We're gonna back down or we're gonna double down? You know,
I mean people Open Caring show up at Mom's Man
(12:50):
Action events all over the country all the time because
it's legal, you know, in in over forty states. So
they'll show up with a semi automatic rifle to try
to intimidate our volunteers. And so all of us have
had those moments of am I going to allow gun
extremists to intimidate and silence me? Or am I going
to to ignore it and let it become like white noise?
(13:12):
Because I know that lives are on the line, and frankly,
if we lose our children, you know, we have nothing
left to lose. What world do gun owners plan? The organization?
Because you know, I've I've read a lot about Mom's
Demand Action and been a part of it, and you know,
the very clear statement is that the organization is not
anti guns, anti gun violence. Right, many of our our volunteers,
(13:33):
particularly in rural areas or red states, are our gun
owners or their partners are gun owners. Um. You know,
even here in California where I live. I mean more
guns are sold in the state of California than any
other state in the country, including Texas. So odds are
you know a gun owner? Um? And the vast majority
of them are responsible. But again, we've been allowing the
(13:56):
gun lobby and gun extremists to write our gun loss
in this country for decades, and it's why we have
a twenty times higher gun homicide rate than any other
high income country. It's why, you know, there aren't laws
requiring people in many states to report lost and stolen guns.
It's why we have such a culture of unsecure gun storage. Right.
(14:19):
What name another country where toddler's shoot and kill their
parents by accident. Um. And so there's just so much
work that needs to be done around restoring the responsibilities
that should go along with gun rights. And that doesn't
make you anti gun. Can you tell us a little
more about gun storage, because I know that's a huge
issue and I think that it's it's a catchphrase that
(14:42):
some of our listeners might not be aware of the issue. Yes,
and and it's an important discussion right now because there
was a historic number of gun sales March through July
of this year, historic millions and millions of guns sold,
many to first time buyers who may live in states
that don't require training or background checks, um and may
(15:03):
not know how to securely store a firearm. Secure gun
storage is incredibly important right now. That simply means your
guns are locked, unloaded, and separate from ammunition. That's how
guns should be stored. When when children are around, um
and most school shooters in this country are actually students,
And where do they get their guns. They get them
(15:25):
from home and they're not secured. I'm very worried given
this huge influx of gun sales and when schools do
start for real, you know what's going to happen in
this country because we know that that too many states
don't require secure gun storage. In those states that do,
(15:45):
we see a lower number of unintentional shootings of kids
by kids, gun suicides, and now for a quick break.
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our a Wellness dot Co. Now, Shannah, I don't want
(17:13):
to I don't want to leave this safety issue because
I'm really I really want to understand how you keep safe, right,
I mean, if anyone would be a target, it would
obviously be you. You had that first experience with the
police officer who said you were infringing on Second Amendment.
What what have you done since then to feel safe traveling,
(17:34):
to feel safe in your home, to protect your family. Yeah,
it's very bizarre. When I was traveling and before COVID,
you know, I was probably traveling three weeks out of
the month. Um I often had a security guard who
would travel with me. I would have to use an
alias all because I support something is common and as
(17:57):
um as whyly supported as a background check on every
gun sale. But I have to say, you know, certainly
we do take measures to keep safe, you know, dog
security alarms and things like that. But I just refused
to be intimidated. I refused to be silenced and to
(18:17):
not do this work because there are gun extremists who
believe that, you know, everyone should have easy access to guns. Um,
people in America don't agree with that. That's not a
mainstream viewpoint, and we've got to make sure we get
back to a place of reason on this issue. I
would imagine there's a ton of politicians who are always
(18:37):
courting you because you have this giant group now of
six million moms right. What what could be more powerful
in terms of a politician wanting your support? How do
you navigate the world of politics to the advantage of
what the policies you're trying to to infiltrate and to change. Well,
(18:58):
we have a very simple motto, which is, uh, if
you do the right thing, we'll have your back. If
you do the wrong thing, we'll have your job. And
you have to show lawmakers that over and over again.
And it does take time. No one gets involved in
this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You constantly
are meeting with your lawmakers and making sure this issue
is top of mind. Um. You you hold them accountable
(19:22):
when they do the wrong thing. Especially on social media,
it's such a great tool for busy moms right to
use a hashtag to shame their lawmakers who who are
voting for a bad bill or so, you know, we
we have pulled the lever of power, levers of power
that are available to us right now. Women only are
about of all lawmakers, were less than five of fortune
(19:45):
one th CEO s. But we're the majority of the
voting public and we make about the spending decisions for
our families. So those are the levers of power that
we can pull. And it's what we do every day,
all day long. You use such the media a lot,
and I love hearing you mentioned and talking about becoming
and being a political powerhouse because I think it's so important. Yeah,
(20:06):
you know, UM, I didn't have many Twitter followers until
when Donald Trump won and I just decided, you know,
screw it, I'm going to use my my real voice
when I talk about these issues. And I have a
lot of opinions on a lot of issues, and and
I am trained as a reporter, and so I have
sort of mastered the two sixty character SoundBite, UM, which
(20:29):
which makes you a popular follower on Twitter. And I
train and we train as an organization other volunteers to
do the same thing because it is so important, UM
to to show up and mass and and to have
a presence, but also to correct misinformation. I think it's
(20:50):
such an important way for women to be political in
this country. Um is on Twitter and on on Instagram
and other social media platforms where they can have a
voice and tell their stories. I feel so strongly about that.
So it is Amy too, And I think, you know,
one of the things that always amazes me. And I
feel like it's so becoming so obsolete as someone who
(21:11):
will say, oh, I don't get involved in politics, and
it's kind of like, well, politics is involved with you.
Like it's no longer acceptable to say you don't get involved.
And I think Twitter is such a great community because
sometimes I feel like, oh, my non Twitter friends don't
get me because I like you Shannon and Amy. We
all spend a lot of time on Twitter. But you
are running such a giant organization. And I know something
(21:34):
that that Amy and I struggle with this. How do
you manage you know, how much time you're supposed to
be spending on social media and responding to people and
catching things and then obviously running your company, your organization.
How do you think about that? Is that just something
that is your primary thing? You're like managing social media
all day while other things are coming in you always
have it up or how do you how do you
(21:55):
manage that in your life? You know, I say some
people like play candy crush or have time to read
and I just fill that time with Twitter. And it
is really important. I think that someone in your organization
is keeping an eye on your handle. You know, what
are people saying about you? And I'll just give you
an example. Um this past weekend, I noticed there was
this fake racist meme with our logo on it that
(22:18):
was everywhere. Every time I searched the Mom's man handle
it was and and and it was these gun extremists
alleging we had made it. And then there were verified
influencers who were just sharing it without doing the research,
and I was having to find each of them and
retweet it and say this is racist and fake and
(22:38):
then also comment right And eventually Reuters wrote an article
about it this morning. But it's it's it's really part
of brand awareness and protection and and a lot of
that these days plays out in social media. Talk to
us about money and how you have funded your organization
and are you always raising money or does that have cycles? Yeah,
(23:03):
So this is interesting. UM. My husband agreed when I
first started Mom's to Me in Action that that I
would be a volunteer. That was sort of my desire, right.
I put a lot of my own money into the
organization in the beginning, but I realized probably six months
in that we would need a partner. This just wasn't sustainable.
(23:24):
There was no way some lady from Indiana that nobody
knew could fundraise and and keep this organization going. UM.
And so I started interviewing organizations inside and outside the space,
so women's organizations that might want a grassroots movement, UM,
a gun safety organizations. Ultimately, UH, there was an organization
(23:46):
called Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which was started by the
Boston mayor, Mayor Menino and Mayor Mike Bloomberg from New York,
and they were doing some similar work out there. I
was seeing them show up and unities and trying to
after the federal legislation failed to pass state and municipal
(24:07):
legislation and policies, and so that was just a conversation
that clicked. We had a lot of the same goals
and Mike has been very generous. That first year, he
gave us fifty million dollars, which, as you can imagine,
turbocharged our our work and our efforts. UM. And since then,
you know, he's continued to be very generous, but we
are now actually bringing in more from our individual donors
(24:33):
than than we get from Mike. So I think in
order for an organization to be healthy and again to
last into perpetuity, you have to have every American feel
like they have a stake in it. And and that's
how we do the fundraising. And how how has Mike
involved in the day to day or what is his
role with the organization. Well, you know, Mike has a
(24:53):
lot of issues that he cares a lot about, thankfully
this is one of them. UM. But but John Findblad
is our president at every time for gun safety. John
and I work closely together, um on the organization and
um you know, have had sort of a partnership now
for almost eight years. So when you are doing your
work and I feel this sometimes like you just feel
(25:15):
like you're pouring something in a glass and someone else
is pouring it out right, it can feel like that.
Especially you know, the last time I saw you was
right before COVID, and it was such a different time
in terms of what you were probably thinking about, and
you had no idea that you were then heading into
a period where people were buying guns and droves to
(25:36):
allegedly protect themselves from a pandemic, which that which actually
seems insane right when you when you when you talk
about it that way. But how do you not have
that come your way and feel, oh, my goodness, all
my work you know for not like, how do you
sit every day and just stay positive? I'm positive because
(26:00):
I see all of the good work that's going on. Again,
this is a marathon, not a sprint. You don't get
into this work thinking it's going to happen overnight. You
know you're gonna lose. Thankfully, we win more than we lose.
Our organization calls it losing forward. Um. We have passed
background checks now in twenty two states. We have passed
red flag laws in nineteen states. We have disarmed domestic
(26:22):
abusers in twenty nine states. And the work that is
getting done is important in life saving and I really
do think it's just a matter of time until we
have the laws we need at a federal level. This
is really heavy and hard work. Are you ever able
to step away and take time for yourself. Yeah it is.
(26:43):
And you know a lot of what I do on
social media is tell the stories that no one would
necessarily see, you know, And um, I find for some
reason it hits home hardest for me because I'm always
seeing young men who are about my son's age that
are shot and killed, and those are the stories that
seemed to stick with me the most. And you know,
(27:04):
I have the kind of personality where things often make
me angry and that's what fuels me, and I can
I can just be fueled by that and not feel
depressed or sad, just kind of angry. But then, you know,
I can remember last Christmas Eve, Um, my husband and
I were at a hotel and for some reason I
(27:25):
saw this this boy again, a young teen boy who
had been shot and killed at a university in North Carolina,
and his girlfriend posted this incredibly moving Instagram story about
his life, and that was it. Like I was in
bed that whole day crime and my husband kind of
looked at me, like, you know, what's going on? And
I do think that that in this country we struggle
(27:46):
with this secondhand PTSD because there is so much gun violence.
And then when you're doing this work on top of it.
It can be really hard, But you know, I guess
I would say two things. One is self care is
really important and it's something we talk about all the
time in our organization and in how to do that.
Um I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's
(28:06):
a relay race too, so you've got to pass the
baton when you need to. And the other thing I
would say is, you know, I'm doing this work as
a non gun violence survivor. Thankfully, I have never been
impacted personally by gun violence, but so many people I
work with have and they wake up and they still
do this work every single day, and and certainly if
they can, I can't too. What was your husband's real reaction.
(28:29):
I mean, I understand he was like, what's going on?
But he also must have been pretty annoyed. I mean,
you're on vacation. Before you know, you're in bed crying
and again. And it's not like a story he hasn't
heard before. He hears these stories from you every day.
So how how does it impact your relationship and what's
his role in that? Well, you know, because this is
both of our second marriage, we committed at the beginning
(28:50):
that we would go to marriage therapy no matter what.
Every two weeks, even if things seemed fantastic, which as
just you know for anyone who goes to marriage therapy,
you know that even of things seemed fantastic, you find
something to complain about during your session, but you know,
being able to talk about that. I can remember we
had a conversation about that incident in therapy where I
(29:10):
think he was kind of like, I didn't really get it,
and I felt like, why, why, why weren't you more comforting?
Why didn't you get it? And I thought the therapist
was really helpful in that she said, you know, some
people can't take in this information at all and would
be like this any time they heard any of these stories.
(29:31):
And Shannon does this and it sort of builds up
and this is what happens. And I think that helped
him understand, oh, this is going to happen occasionally, or
when it happens, this is why it's happening. That's a
great analogy that the build up, what are what are
the kinds of things that get you upset? On the
other end with him, yes, well, since COVID started, I
(29:58):
will tell you he is a very talker on conference
and zoom calls, which I did. I mean, I can
he can be in the basement and I am upstairs
and I can hear every word. And I don't know
if that's grounds for divorce, but really I have to
say that that COVID has made our marriage so much.
It's just we're so close right now and it has
(30:20):
been wonderful. And he has just gone on his first
business trip in seven months and he called me and
he said, my god, I've left the pod. I meant
to come back to the pod. So you know, there
are very very few things to complain about with him,
but he is a loud talker. How did you, I mean,
but going back before you met your husband, how did
(30:40):
you make it work as a single mom of three
little kids? Working? It was not easy? And you know,
I my my husband, my ex husband, is such a
great co parent and and such a good dad and
so incredibly helpful. You know. Our issue was everr that
we didn't like you each other, was that we got
(31:01):
married too young. UM, And so you know, he he
was fantastic and UM has been all along. In fact,
when I said we had moved, you know, he moved
to when we moved States so um, it's been It's
that certainly has made it easier. Um, But you know,
I think it's it's important that dad's stepdad's chip in
(31:25):
and and do as much of the heavy lifting. My
husband does all the cooking, I do all the laundry.
Uh and and everyone just has to find their niche.
Fam and I are both in marriages where there's a
lot of coherenting and a lot of sharing and responsibility.
I don't think it wouldn't work otherwise. So we're big
advocates that you can't reach your your full full potential
(31:46):
unless you have a partner at home or if you're single, right,
but if you are saddled with a very sort of
unjust division of labor, it's very hard to reach any
I also think there's something to be said for three
or our parents, you know. I mean, it's like man
on man defense. It makes sense although you together have
(32:10):
five children, correct, Yes, my husband has two and I
have three. My kids are between seventeen months and six,
and I won't remember any of this. I go through
life and I'm like, I'm not gonna remember this in
five years. I don't remember any of that either. I'm like,
in the teen years and I can't remember yesterday, let
alone like five years ago, Harry menopause wipes all of
(32:31):
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you know, post COVID, you're back out in the world,
what's something that now that you've had you know, perspective
and you're not traveling three weeks a month. What's something
(34:40):
that you would like to accomplish that you haven't yet.
I would love to learn to speak Spanish, not that
I'm going to learn Spanish before we're all vaccinated. But
but maybe I could just get immersed. Now we we
are going to go to our lightning row where we
do it, but just speed questions. But before we do,
I have one last question for you, which is what
would you say to some he's listening and thanks. I
(35:01):
want to advocate for x y Z cause I'm passionate
about it. Whether it's it's gun violence, or whether it's
lgbt Q rights, or whether it's gender or whatever it is.
What would you say to someone who's afraid to use
their voice because of what other people will think, or
how it might impact their home life, or their careers
or their social life. I just think, if you look
(35:24):
at the state the country is in right now, we
all have a moral obligation, a moral imperative to speak up,
to speak out, frankly, to run for office. You know,
I think too many women are not jumping into the arena.
And I don't care if you run for sheriff or
corner or school board, run for something, because again we're
(35:48):
we only hold you know, about the five thousand elected
positions in this country. It is just if we want
to shape a more just and fair and equitable and
kind world for our children and their children and our communities.
Then we have to get involved. You know. That's what
(36:09):
I learned when I got off the sidelines to get
involved in this issue, and I wrote a book called
Fight Like a Mother. The reason I wrote the book
was because I wanted it to be partly a manual
of how other people, particularly women, could do. This could
replicate what I did, even if it's just in their neighborhood,
and it could be on any issue. Um. I wanted
(36:31):
to remember and write down what happened from the very
beginning and encourage other women to be activists. I certainly
never saw myself as one until Mom's to be in action.
And do you want to kick us off with our
lightning round? Now? What is your favorite breakfast? Every day?
(36:52):
I eat cinnamon special k and almond monk, but I
would rather have a breakfast sandwich. I just don't know
how make one. My husband just got a breakfast sandwich maker.
Then he makes for the kids and actually can't stand them.
But I got it for him for I think for
Father's Day from all of us, and it was really
a gift to the kid. There's something called a breakfast
sandwich maker. Yes, I will send you the link. I'll
(37:15):
send you the link and it literally will change your life.
You just put the English muffon and it takes like
it's really easy. My mouth is watering. So what are
you watching on TV these days? Oh? All the housewives
franchises again, give me, cut me some slack because it's
covid um queen scambit. It was wonderful. I'm getting ready
(37:38):
to watch the Crown. I like the Undoing. Oh the
Undo so good. Road Kill is it is an English
political drama that's also funny. It's excellent. Okay, I'm writing
that one down and we are actually almost out of time,
so I want to make sure we have time for
our male perspective. Lou Burns, lu are you with us? Yes,
(37:59):
I am so, Shannon. Lou has been listening and he
did not his things. He doesn't do any research before
the episode, so he just learned about you through the episode,
and then he asked his his big question, Hi, Shannon,
you're doing some really good work. Um. My my niece
and god daughter was was a student at Marjorie Stone
(38:23):
Stoneman Douglas School. Um, and we got a call the
next day finding out that she was in class that
day and I had a great talk with her, and
I have have a question that's kind of loaded on
both ends. But I was looking at the Vegas one
where almost four hundred eleven people were killed in like
(38:45):
over eight hundred were injured, you know, and this gentleman,
you know, no one would ever imagine he would have
ever did something like that. So my question is, it's like,
would a background check really prevent more gun violence? So,
you know, background checks are the most important foundational part
(39:09):
of a gun safety system, which we we don't have
in this country. Background checks simply prevent people who shouldn't
have guns from getting them. So in this country, if
you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, for example Walmart,
you have to have a background check. That system works.
It stops millions of people who shouldn't have guns from
(39:29):
getting them. Where the system falls down is that federal
law does not require unlicensed dealers to perform a background check.
So if you are a domestic abuser in more than
half the states in this country, all you have to
do is go to a gun show or arrange a
gun sale online and get a gun, no questions asked.
So we know that background checks are foundational and would
(39:52):
save a huge number of lives right away. Thank you
so much. Thank you so much, Shannon, Thank you so
I think what's so amazing about Shannon, and I really
can't get enough of this story, is just how she
mobilized so many people with she had such a tiny,
tiny community on Facebook and as she said, you know,
(40:15):
as six million people as part of our community. It's
it's really inspirational. It is inspirational, and I think it's
a lesson to us all that even if we feel
like we're beginning from nothing, we can build something really
important and something really big. Um And along those lines
of sharing and building community, Sam, do not forget to
send Shannon the name of that breakfast sandwich maker. I won't.
(40:40):
Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
We would so appreciate if you would leave a view
wherever you get your podcasts, and of course connect with
us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company,
The Riveter at the Riveter dot c O and Sam's company,
park Place Payments at park place payments dot com. Thanks
(41:03):
to our producer, Laurel Moglin, our podcast associate Emma Hard
and our male perspective lue birds. Are you a gig
(41:33):
worker or self employed? Wampley has helped over one small
businesses get a P P P loan. You may qualify
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dot com slash apply. Hey guys, this is Jumpiazza, host
of the Committed podcast, who is ready for season six
of Committed, the only podcast that gives you a look
(41:55):
into the raw, intimate, hilarious, and often heartbreaking stories of
real marriage. Committed Season six will be launching on April fourteenth,
so be sure to subscribe and share Committed with all
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