May 3, 2021 • 57 mins
Jana is here with Sara Gretzky to begin to work out the complex feelings and new challenges that she faces with her family.
Gabby Bernstein leads her in a transformative exercise in finding peace and easing the pain.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M wind Down with Janet Kramer and I have our
radio podcast. My heart is like pounding, so is mine. UM,
welcome back to wind Down. Uh, this is so sorry
(00:25):
for everyone listening right now. This is not easy. UM.
I have Sarah Gretzky hi in Nashville with me. She
surprised me yesterday, and UM, we're gonna we're gonna get
you through this. We're gonna get you through this. For
(00:45):
those of you that haven't seen the news, UM, I
filed for divorce, uh a few weeks ago, and it
has not been easy. I'll say that. UM. And honestly,
(01:06):
I don't even know, like like I don't even know
if I want to do the show anymore. I mean
completely honest. Um, you know, I started the show, you know,
by myself and something I always wanted to do. And um,
(01:30):
and then you know, once Mike came on as a guest,
and then we talked about our stuff, and you know,
he said that he loved sharing, and so then we
partnered together and but then it just felt like ours.
And so now it feels weird, um, not having him
(01:50):
on here, and uh, I don't know, like it's not
it's just it feels weird. It's like a m I mean,
I can imagine. So this is this was y'all's thing
that took off. This is this has always been your thing,
but you know when you guys joined together, it really
(02:12):
became I mean it was the two of you. And
now you're here, which is so I don't even know
how you're doing it. You're so strong, And that's what
I want you to know that everyone listening right now
loves you, has your back, and you could come on
here and talk about absolutely nothing and everyone is still
(02:33):
going to cheer for you and lift you up. So
just know that you have an insane army behind you
of all of these listeners who are literally just tuning
in today to hear that you're okay, Like they just
want to know that you're okay, and it's it's tasts.
So you've got balls to be able to come on here,
and you're so strong to be able to, you know,
(02:55):
address it. And and I'm just amazed. So cry and
you take No one wants to hear an hour of crying,
but I mean you won't sniffling is like stop the sniffling, No,
but you I mean it's hard right now, and even
last night, like you you've. I definitely think you're better
(03:17):
like you are. Yeah, I know you might not feel it,
but it takes time. I mean it's fresh, but even
you know, every day so cliche, but every day you're
tackling something and you're feeling better, you know. I don't
know about that. I feel like it goes in waves.
Um like I've. I feel like I'm so in the
(03:45):
middle of the grieving where it's like and I when
when I when I grieve, I isolate and I am
like I don't want to I don't respond to like
my people, and I just like stay in bed. And
I had a friend come over the other day and
she was just like like I'm here for the grieving.
(04:06):
But at the same time, she's like, you have to
get out of bed, and I'm like, I don't. I
don't know how. Sometimes it's like and it's like the
days that you know, I've and obviously I have to
because the kids, But the morning and the night are
the hardest because it's like I I wake up and
it's like that scene in Sex in the City where
she's like was it a dream? And then at night
(04:30):
it's like my like I just can't. I can't sleep,
and it's like, you know me, I'm usually in bed
by eight thirty and like lights out by nine, and
now I'm like counting the clock at two in the
morning and being like, oh god, I gotta get up,
and you know, the best mom I can be, but
it's like I've never It's just it's it's so on.
(04:52):
It's so hard when I have all these feelings and
emotions and um and then I have to be a
mom on top of it. It's like it's I almost
like the first week I counted down the nap time
because I was like, Okay, I can go in my
room and just like shut the door and like cry
and my like just like cry, you know, and then
(05:13):
like button it back up by like because it's like
obviously I don't want the kids seeing this, of course.
And I think that's I mean, everything you're saying right now,
anyone who's been through this, I think this is so
normal and so relatable. Like you're not alone in feeling
this way. It's just something that you're trying to navigate
and you're doing the best that you can. Like you said,
it's like, of course you're grieving, but it's like the
(05:34):
kids are up and stuff I don't have. You don't
have time to grieve. It is game time all day
for you. And so I think that you're doing the
best that you can. Like you, you really really are.
I've only been here for a day, but I've seen it,
and well, you caught me. I was angry. I've been
I've been sad, sad, sad, said sad, and then I
hit a. You saw me on my one angry day.
(05:55):
But I think, I mean, I think it's okay to
be angry, and I think it's healthy to be angry
because you know, everyone goes through waits. First you're sad,
then you're you know, first we get sad, then we
get mad. And I think it's okay whatever you're feeling,
even if you were feeling happy or whatever you feel,
it's okay to feel that. And I think that's important
for you to just remind yourself that you're doing the
(06:18):
best you can. You're Nobody ever expected this, yeah, like
this was not something you were like, I mean, not
that anyone's ever prepared, but like you know, yeah, I
I I do owe it to you, know, you and
my friends. It's because because I still can't physically do
(06:42):
things because of my freaking boob job that I got,
so I can't lift things. I can't, you know. And
it's like I've I've had friends come over here and
you know, do my Now I can do it all,
but like, well not all of it, but like I
couldn't even put glasses in the ashwasher because I was
so depressed. Like I was like I had literally had
(07:03):
my girls on rotation being like doing my dishes, taking
my trash out, you know, like helping clean the house,
like helping me. Well, I'm just like a zombie. And
that was like for two weeks, I was just in
a totally and now I just kind of go in
and out of like crying. And then because I didn't
want this at the end of the day, like I think,
(07:24):
I think we're like where I'm at as I'm embarrassed,
Like I'm embarrassed by Yeah, I'm I'm embarrassed that this
is how it ended. And then I also feel like
I let people down because it's you know, we've come
out here and we fought and we fought for it,
but really the words that was spoken wasn't I don't
(07:48):
know they were honest from me is what I'll say. Yeah,
I mean, I'm I'm speechless, like I'm trying to find words,
and I just I don't want you to feel any
of those things, embarrassed, whatever it is, because I mean,
I'm someone who considers myself in in the circle, in
(08:10):
the Mix, podcast with You guys, shows with you, I
was so this took me by like I was completely
completely shook and shocked at all of this, So I
can't even imagine how it was for you. And I
just yeah, I yeah, I mean I did too, because
(08:33):
even a few days before things came to light, we
were like, wow, we're really good right now, you know,
And I was like that was where it was just
like a because I thought we were good, and you know,
even people on Instagram or like you guys seem so happy,
and I was like, yeah, I thought so too. You know.
It's where it's like yeah, um, But I just I
(08:56):
do want to say thank you to everyone who's reached out,
and i'd say of so many d m s and messages,
and I appreciate just hearing how you guys have walked
through the same path and gotten to the other side,
because right now I don't see the other side. Right now,
I'm just like I'm gonna be alone forever, and like,
you know, I'm kind of playing the you know, the
(09:19):
SOB story um and but you know, just hearing your
guys of stories. But also like what kind of breaks
my heart too, is there's been so many messages of
people being like how did you get the courage to leave?
I want to leave. I don't know how, you know,
like I'm scared, and I'm like, there's there was actually
(09:40):
more messages of that, and I was shocked by it.
But I'm the same time, I'm like I didn't. I
still don't have the strength. Like it's just something where
it's like I have no choice. That's a good point. Yeah,
I mean I think I think so many people are
in your situation and it's either they whether they turn
(10:04):
a blind eye or they are in it for the
kids or whatever reason. But it's it's sad to think
that there are people who are struggling out there and
look at you as like, you know, how did you
do it? Like you're so strong. I'm like I am
the weakest I've ever been. Like it maybe hopefully in
the future, like I'll feel that strength, but I'm like
(10:25):
I went to my therapist a few weeks ago and
being like, you know what, fine, I'll you know, I'll
just I'll live this life. It's okay, Like I don't
want to break up my family because my whole thing
is like I didn't want this for the kids, like
I've stayed for my kids, you know, even when other
things happen. And but you know, my therapist was like,
you don't want to live that life where you're just
(10:47):
constantly like it's taking your light away, it's taking your everything.
And I'm just like, yeah, but my kids and like
we'll be together, and like I don't want like the
first time that they like me for overnight, I'm gonna
be destroyed. It's not what I wanted. It's not what
I worked for, it's not what I fought for. It
is not king fair, and that makes me so angry.
(11:13):
It's like that I've I worked too damn hard for
it to end this way you did. And but I
just feel like now I'm like I don't like how
like there'd be no way like we I just like
and in my mind, I'm like I even asked, I
asked some people like how like okay, how could I
how could I try again? Like give me? But then
(11:34):
I realized I was like, I'm now not I'm now weak.
I always thought I was strong by staying. I'm now
weak for staying because I'm staying because I don't want
to be alone. I'm staying because I want to keep
my family together. And I don't know if I believe
if I don't, I don't know if I believe a
change anymore. Yeah, And I think sometimes, I mean, it's
(11:56):
so hard, the scenarios back and forth. But I think
in sir, scenarios, you know it is strong to stay.
But I think in this scenario, you are so strong
for walking away, Like I know you don't feel it,
but like you're sitting here crying for your family, like
you will look back like the strength I mean, I
know I keep bringing up today or last, but like
the last twenty four hours, like the strength that I
(12:19):
see is like I can't I can't even imagine. So
you are so strong even though it doesn't feel like
it right now. But I think you're right. You really
just had no choice. I mean I had friends that
were like basically tell me they would lose respect for me.
(12:43):
And those were the friends that were always like, we
love you and support you no matter what you know,
and that's tough, because that's tough. But as a friend,
I yeah, like you can only watch someone go through
so much before it actually starts to kill you. As
the front. When I realized I'm like I've told my
therapist is I was like, I feel like now I'm
(13:04):
the addict where I'm addicted, and I've I've been doing
meetings and stuff and I um someone who she's a
friend of mine. She's a sex and love addict and
she's kind of like my sponsor. I've never really asked her,
but I've been calling her so much. Her name's Brian
and um and she I was like, Brian, I was like,
(13:27):
I feel like I'm coming off of heroin. Like I'm
I'm like, I've never touched a drug before, but that's
what it feels like where I'm just like I need it,
like but it's like, what what do I need? Like
is that's not healthy? Like that's not I don't even
know what that healthy version looks like anymore. So it's like, ah,
(13:48):
but it's just I've never felt that coming off of
something like that, and I just but you know I had.
It's just sucks, I know, and I hate seeing you
like this. I hate that you feel this way, but
I genuinely believe, and I've told you this a thousand times.
(14:11):
You're getting probably sick of it, but I genuinely genuinely
believe that when you come out of all of this,
whether it's a month, six months, a year, five years,
you're light. You are going to shine so bright you
thought you were happy to three years ago, like you
don't even know happy. And I genuinely believe that, like
(14:33):
you're gonna be like, oh my god, I'm just so
You're going to radiate happiness and sunshine to the people.
Your friends are gonna look at you and be like,
you know you you did it. You're so strong. You
didn't think you were strong. And I know I keep
saying that, but like I really I think the last
(14:55):
I think it's been hard for you. I think I
think this has been really hard for you because like
any relationship, ups and downs, everything, But you know, I
can't wait for you to just be a ray of
sunshine that you are but like times ten, because you
really are going to. I mean, people keep saying that,
(15:16):
but I'm just like I don't feel that, like, and
that's where I'm just like I lay in bed and
I'm just like where I go through my like I'm
gonna be alone and like I'm not gonna be the
kids and this that another, and it's like I just
I want to believe that, but I don't feel that now.
That's kind of where I'm at and that's okay to
not feel it now, Hi, Mark him. I had a
question kind of based on what Sarah was just saying
(15:37):
about how hard it's been for you. Is there any
part of you that feels relief that you no longer
have to be wondering, no longer waiting for the other
shoe to drop? Um? There is there. Yeah, there's a
There's definitely moments where it's like it's nice to not
(16:00):
have to wonder, worry, look um, because I was always
so afraid of that moment um And you know, I
even we had a conversation a few weeks before everything
kind of came to light, and I was just like,
if there's anything, like, just tell me. I don't want
(16:22):
to find it, like whatever it is, like we can
work through it, because I just don't want to and
like it was such a connected moment, and you know,
he swore on his sobriety there was nothing and um,
so yeah, but knowing now that like what I know,
and not having to yeah, not having to look at
(16:46):
things and question and wonder and worry, there is some
relief and that, Um, but I'm not fully there yet.
I think I'll get there once I get past all
the other I'm as because everything else is kind of
like my friends are reminding me of that and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
you're right, But there's still so much sadness. And most
(17:07):
of the sadness just comes from my kids, um, because
they didn't deserve this. They didn't they didn't ask for this, um.
And then also the dream of what I thought it
was going to be, and the um who I thought
(17:28):
I was working with, and the who you know he
said to all of us who he was, you know,
so it's a not having that really be a reality
is kind of a slap in the face. Well, I
thought I saw a quote today that I thought of you.
I said, I thought, Um, the quote is the moment
(17:51):
you start to believe you deserve better, you do, So
I am happy for you, and I do think that
like Sarah was saying, you will look back on this
as um a turning point one day and a year
from now, two years from now, you'll be very happy
that you made the decision you did. I'm gonna be
alone Mark forever. You're not, because you're gonna be so happy.
(18:16):
You're going to attract people to you that you didn't eat. Like.
Here's the thing, though, And I have so much work
to do on myself because I've just picked the worst,
Like my first guy, which I hate, you know saying this,
but like you know, I hate I hate when they're
like even married, you know three. It's like my first
guy I met in two weeks, we went to you know,
(18:37):
Vegas and got married. I was nineteen, Like I was
an idiot. I don't consider that a marriage, and he
ended up trying to kill me. The second guy, we
were married for a week, Like no, those two were
not marriage and I wish I could just wipe those
and like, this is my first marriage, this is what
I've fought for, and like, but I just I was
reading in my diary just like because I was like,
(18:58):
I gotta figure this out, Like and why am I
still wanting something that doesn't want to you know, change
and grow and and and fight and um, I mean,
I know it has nothing to do with me, but
I'm like, why do I still like I have this
thing in me where I'm just like, I've never felt
like I was good enohing. I don't know if that
(19:18):
came from, you know, my parents divorced. I don't know.
And I I mean, I know some of it, like
why but I look back on my journal entries and
it's like, I know I need to leave, but why
can't I? And I'm like, why was I so weak?
It's like why do I Why am I pining for
like these men to like love me? You know, I
don't know if it's weak or if you just didn't know,
(19:42):
you didn't have the tools, or you didn't understand. And
now I think you do. Like you said, I mean,
I think it's really big of you to admit that
you have work to do on yourself. I think that's huge,
like that you are owning this and saying I gotta
work on myself too. And that's why, you know, don't
blame me. I don't want you to lame yourself, because
I think all of us in this little circle right
(20:04):
here can literally I mean we all worked very closely together,
Like I think, it's not like you were you know, mh,
this came out of left field. I'm gonna do the work, though,
and I'm gonna attract one day, not now, one day
(20:24):
hopefully I'll I'll be healthy to attract healthy, and you're
gonna have like a ton of us behind you, having
our checklist making sure. I can't even think about that
right now, exactly. Please don't focus on you know that
is like the first it is. I know it is
you and those kids are are which is a perfect
(20:45):
thing to focus on. Yeah, um, anything, Mark, I have
a question for you, yes, um, what like how we
go forward? Because I don't know. I'm like, I don't
(21:05):
want this to be now like the divorce guide you
know of single mamas. I don't want you know, It's
like I don't you want like a re like what
like how do we rebrand this? How do we? How
do we what do we? What do we do? I
don't even know, Like I don't know that we need
to as a rebrand necessarily. That's such a cold way
of looking at it. Um. I think this has always
(21:27):
been about your journey, you know, because this show started
as just you. Now it's you again in the future.
Who knows what it will be. It's going to evolve,
it's going to continue. People listen for you, they love you,
and they want to know about you. And now it's
going to be about you pulling it all back together again,
rebuilding somewhat. But it's also going to be the people
(21:49):
you talk to and what's going on in your life.
And the kids did this, and I think there's plenty
of there's so much positive in your life that we'll
be able to focus on. I don't think it's going
to be a sad divorce divorce a podcast. And you
have so many fans. You're like, you brought people here,
you know, the two of you didn't. Maybe you brought some,
but you, like we've all said, you started this, this
(22:11):
was a dream of yours. And I think you have
so many people who are like, you know, listening right now,
yelling at their phone like no, please keep doing this,
like we love you, we we're here for you, we
want to hear you. And so I agree with Mark, well,
I'll keep going. I mean at your you know, let's
(22:33):
keep you healthy. Yeah, Um, we have Gabby Bernstein coming
on the show. She's a number one New York Times
best selling author. We've had her on the show before. Um,
but she's basically an awesome life coach and writer and
just I mean she's she's she needs to inspire us,
(22:54):
so can't I Let's stake a break and then get
her one. Okay. So really happy to have Gabby on
(23:17):
because hopefully she'll give us some insights because I gotta
believe that I'm not the only person going through grief
and trauma. You're not, yes, And I know that. UM.
So that's why, you know, like I said, I'm not
going to have each episode be this heavy thing. But
I also I'm at the point of where of my
(23:40):
kind of grieving and of losses now I need something
to that I can like hold onto. So I guess Gabby,
my first question is, you know, well, I'll ask this
to um, because I've been told that it's not good
to just mask grieving and not grieve like you have
to you have to sit in it, right. I think
(24:03):
that you have to fully feel something all the way
through to completion mhm, until you know that you have
given yourself the full bodied expression of the emotional experience
to allow it to actually move through you ultimately, and
(24:24):
it may be a daily practice. It might be a
daily practice of living in that full expression of feeling
the grief. And what happens for most people is when
they push past that grief and that suffering, they may
move beyond it through anesthetizing it with you know, the
next relationship, or the drugs and the alcohol or the
(24:45):
work addiction or whatever it is that they can numb
it out with, but it's still there. It doesn't actually
go away. The energetic disturbance is still dwelling. So the
more you give yourself permission to go there now, to
feel the experience all the way through, to give yourself
permission to grieve, the better you will be faster, the
(25:08):
healthier you will be faster. And actually want to take
back the word better because what's better, right, Better today
is just that you're feeling more. Better today is that
you're giving yourself more permission to feel. So it's not
that you're getting better, but you'll be freer from the
experience the more you allow yourself to experience it. How
do you I think I'm stuck in the I'm stuck
(25:32):
in there, Like what if it's like what if he
does change this time, or what if like you know, um,
you know this person would change, And it's like, how
do you how do you kind of not focus on
the what ifs and just start living your life? If
thet's talk back to the what if because they don't.
They're not real. The what ifs are a projection from
(25:55):
the past onto the present or a projection of the
of the future that doesn't exist. So what if something
could have been differently or what if it could be
different in the future is not real. It doesn't exist.
All that's real is what's happening right here in this moment.
So this sounds really esoteric and pretty like self help
(26:17):
new ag, but it's the most valuable thing you could
do is to be fully present in the moment with
whatever is up today and show up for today without
the digging up the past and the future tripping of
the future. Because all there is is right here right now.
That's it. That's all there is. There's nothing else. There
(26:37):
is no what if yesterday was different or what if
tomorrow could be a different way I wanted to be
doesn't exist. I mean, what when you went through your miscarriage, Sarah,
what was how did you get out of your grief? Um,
I really allowed myself to feel it. Like I'm like you,
I go into hiding, I go underground. Um it's probably
not the healthiest, but for me, that's what is best.
(27:01):
Like I just need to step back, cry it out,
and then I'm someone who it's almost like I shed that,
like I felt it. I allowed myself to feel it,
and then I can kind of grow from it. And
and that's why, you know, I think, like what you
guys are saying, like whatever you're grieving process is allow
(27:22):
it because you know you're either going to be someone
who goes and drinks every single night or copes with
it in whatever way that you feel, or or you're
gonna face it. And I think facing it, as hard
as it is is you know. So when someone says
that they don't want to sit in it and that
we all grieve differently and they go off and do
(27:44):
fun things, that's really not the healthiest version. Well. I
always say that you have to show up for WhatsApp
or it will keep showing up. So, Okay, you want
to go party for a week because you just need
to let it out or you just need to numb out. Okay.
We all have coping mechanisms that we may rely on
from time to time, and as long as they're not
life threatening or harming others, okay, maybe we need them
(28:07):
for a moment, that's okay, that's okay. But you don't
want to stay there. You don't want to stay stuck
there because you don't want to avoid what's up. You
need to show up for it. If you don't show
up for it, it'll keep coming up. It'll come up
in the next relationship, It'll come up in the next
job experience, or whatever. The issue. Maybe if it's not
resolved in the president's going to continue to manifest in
(28:28):
the future. So if I go to Miami for what
would have been my sixer wedding anniversary, that's okay for
me to like not keep continue to sulk. A month
later and it's like, it's okay for me to like
go out, but I need to come back slute, Okay, Well,
I I think that grieving isn't about always being upset.
I think that there's allowing yourself, as we've already said,
(28:51):
to be fully present, to feel it all the way through,
to truly allow yourself the permission to go there, and
then to also give yourself permission to good days, give
yourself permission to have fun, go to Miami, dance on
the table, whatever, do your thing, because you need to
live it minute by minute. When you're in traumatic grief,
(29:15):
it is a minute by minute thing. It's not Okay,
I'm going to be good in a month or two months.
It's like what am I doing right in this moment?
Did I shower today? How do you? Yeah? Because that's
that's where I'm like, it's is it depression because it's
like it's like it's it takes so much energy for
(29:35):
me to even put like my my bowl in the
sink now, Like it's like it takes like every part
of and it's I'm like, God, I'm like I feel weak,
Like I feel like I'm like this weak person that
I'm like I can't even like like it's almost like
I just want to snap out of it. But it's
like that's I just feel like my body is just
kind of like I'm just feeling Is a depression or
(29:58):
is that just a part of grief? Depression is a
part of grief. But I actually have a hit that
I want to do something with. You would you be
open to doing something that I think could give you
a lot of relief right now. Okay, let's do it.
So this is called emotional freedom technique. It's otherwise known
as tapping. Have you guys heard of this? You know
what this is? I've done? Like? Is it similar to
(30:18):
like m d R. It's quite similar to m d R.
So E. M d R otherwise is known as eye
movement to sensitization and reprocessing. And I think absolutely epic
for you right now would be to get into some
regular evening twice twice a week. Well, there you go.
You are hooked up. You are on the fast tract
of freedom. I'm proud of you. That's amazing. So E
(30:38):
m d R was extraordinarily beneficial for me when I
was going through deep trauma recovery of my own in
my own way, and I can say, you're all hooked
up now. Similar to m d R, E f T
addresses the emotional disturbance, and it expands that window of
tolerance to feel into things that we otherwise might be
(30:59):
to protect of. And it also allows us to regulate
our nervous systems so that we can actually process things
with a greater sense of safety rather than being in
that fight flight response. Okay, what you do is you
tap on different energy meridians and you're gonna follow me.
Tap on the side of your hand, eyebrow, side of
(31:20):
the eye, under the eye, under the nose, the chin,
the collar bone, under the arm, on the top of
the head. You're gonna follow me. So you don't have
to remember that. And I'll say it also so someone's listening,
they can tap along with us. Yes, tap with us,
because you whoever is tapping along will borrow the benefits
(31:41):
of the tapping as well. So this is where we begin.
We well, you're gonna follow me, but the main process
is we tap on the most pressing issue, the real disturbance,
the grief, the trauma. We're gonna let you name it.
And then when I recognize as I see a change,
I'm gonna start to guide you into the positive. But
(32:04):
only when I noticed that it's safe enough to go there,
and we may go. If you hear me talking about
things that are like, oh, that sucks, I really I
really hate that she's saying that that's good. Like just
let's just let's be real. This isn't about this is
no small talk. Which is going right into big talk.
I don't even need to describe it too much. I
want you to experience it. So tap with me while
we talk for a second. Just tap on the side
(32:24):
of that karate chop point right here, and just talk
to me for a second about the most pressing issue
right now is just in your own words, what is
the most pressing issue? That my family isn't together anymore?
Family isn't together anymore? And like you know, like, yeah,
(32:47):
I lost my family. I lost I lost the um
what I the dreams of our family being together as
a unit. I lost my dream of my family to be.
I lost my dream of my family. Okay, and anyone
else that's tapping along with us, they can apply this
(33:08):
to any form of loss that they may having, maybe
having may not be specific to you, but it's their
own loss. Okay. Now, from a scale of zero to ten,
where is that grief? Where is that that with that pain?
Totally okay, So just repeat after me, and just so
I'm super clear, the most pressing issue is I'm I
(33:31):
say it again in your own words. I want to
hear it exactly. Oh god, there's like a million but yeah,
the most pressing I would say, is that, Um, I
didn't want this. I didn't want my family to not
be together. Okay, my family's I didn't want my family
not to be together. Okay to repeat after me. Even
though I didn't want my family not to be together.
(33:55):
Even though I didn't want my family not to be together,
I deeply and completely love and accept myself. Take good time,
keep tapping and breathing. I just don't believe that yet. Yeah,
(34:23):
even if you don't believe it, just say the words.
Repeat after me. I deeply and completely I do believed,
completely love and accept myself, love and accept myself. Even
though I never wanted my family not to be together.
Even though I never wanted my family to be together,
okay not to be together. Well, I'll change it up
(34:44):
a little. I deeply and completely, deeply and completely love
and accept myself, love and accept myself. And even though
I'm devastated that my family is not together, and even
though I'm devastated that my face only it's not together,
I deeply and completely, deeply and completely love and accept myself,
(35:09):
love and accept myself. Let's go to the eyebrow point.
And the eyebrow point is right there where the hair
of your eyebrow meets the bone, and I'm ana ten.
Just repeat after me. I'm at a ten, I'm out
of ten. Side of the eye. I never wanted my
(35:31):
family not to be together. I never wanted my family
not to be together. Under the eye, I couldn't have
imagined this. I could not have imagined this. Under the nose,
I can't even get the ball in the sink. I
can't even get the ball in the sink. Chin, I
(35:55):
can't get the ball in the sink. I can't get
the bull in the sink. Collar bone. All this pain,
all this pain under the arm, all this what ifs,
all the what ifs. Top of the head. I never
(36:16):
didn't want my family not to be together. I never
didn't want my family not to be together. Hiro a point,
I never wanted my family to split up. I never
wanted my family to split up. Side of the eye,
having it's hard time for giving myself. I'm having a
(36:39):
hard time for giving myself under the eye, am having
a hard time accepting myself and having a hard time
accepting myself. Under the nose, I'm having trouble accepting myself.
I'm having trouble accepting myself. Chen having some trouble accepting myself.
(37:00):
I'm having some trouble accepting myself. Collar bone and all
that means to me, and all that means to me
under the arm. Kind sucks, skin sucks over the head,
This really sucks, is really good zucks. I wrote, why me?
(37:26):
Side of the Eye. I never saw this coming. I
never saw this coming under the eye. I never thought
this would be me. I never thought this would be
me under the nose. Kind sucks sucks under the chin.
It really really sucks. It really really sick sucks collar bone,
it really really really really sicking sucks. Yes, really sucks
(37:52):
over the head, and I just I just want relief,
and i just want really eyebrow, and I'm working for it,
and I'm working for it. Side of the eye. I'm
doing my two E M. D R sessions a week
sessions to MR sessions a week under the eye, and
I'm doing my work, and I'm doing my work and
(38:15):
reading a ton of self help books. Under the nose.
I'm reading a ton of self help books. I'm reading
a ton of self help books and the chin and
that is something I'm proud of, and that is something
I am proud of collarbone. I'm really actually quite proud
of myself. I am proud of myself. Under the arm,
(38:37):
I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of myself. Out of ahead,
I'm showing up for myself. I'm showing up for myself.
I'm showing up for myself in the present moment. I'm
showing up for myself in the present moment. Out of
the eye, I'm showing up for myself in the present moment.
I'm showing up for myself in the present moment. Under
(38:57):
the eye, I'm showing up for myself. For the future,
I'm showing up for myself for the future. And under
the nose, everything I'm doing now is hooking me up
for my future. Everything I'm doing now is hooking me
up for my future. Under the chin, I'm proud of myself.
I'm proud of myself. All are wrong. I accept myself.
(39:20):
I accept myself. I really can accept myself right now.
I really can accept myself right now. And this is
the only moment that matters right now. And this is
the only moment that matters right now. One more round.
I accept myself right now. I accept myself right now.
Side of the eye, I accept myself right now. I
(39:40):
accept myself right now. Under the eye, I accept and
forgive myself. Right now, I accepted and forgive myself. Right now.
Under the nose, I accept and forgive myself. Right now,
I accept and forgive myself right now. Shin, I'm doing great.
(40:02):
I'm doing good. Color. I'm doing as good as I
can do today hand and as good as I can
Under the arm, I'm doing as good as I can
do today. I'm doing as good as I can do today.
On top of the head, I'm doing as good as
I can do today. I'm doing as good as I
and do today. I'll take a deep breath in and
(40:22):
just place your right hand on your heart and your
left hand and your belly and breathe and on the excel,
let it go. You can cannonball breath like breathe deep
in and on the excel, cannonball breath, let it go.
M just when you're ready, just open your eyes and
just notice what you notice about your body. And from
(40:43):
the scale of zero to ten, now with the same
most pressing issue, I never wanted my family to split up.
Where are you now? I'm about five girl? Ye, thank
you You're welcome. Thank you for your bravery. That was
(41:07):
a little bit long tapping, but I hope people borrowed it,
because when you tap along, the listener or the viewer
can borrow the benefits even if it's not exactly related
to them. You cut it in half and seven minutes,
maybe six minutes, I don't know how long that was.
So I think that the point I want to give
(41:28):
you is that these practices E M, D R, E F. T.
Reading the self help books, talking about it, moving physically,
whatever it is that's working for you, you add it up,
and you add it up, and you added up and
you add it up, and each day that goes by,
it gets easier and easier. These are showing up for it, right, Gabby? Um?
(41:50):
Where can I mean? I know you have, I mean
you're just you're everywhere. You're incredible of people that haven't
heard of you before. Where what books can they get?
Where can they find you? Um? So that they can
reap the benefits that we just got today. And I
think the best place that people could find me I've
written a lot of books, but the best places I
just started a podcast called Deer Gabby, where I workshop
(42:12):
people just like we did here. This wasn't my intention today.
I was coming just a riff with you. But I
want when I see suffering, it's it's like I'm a fixer.
I got to just go in and just fix and
especially when I see that there's a desire, when there's
a willingness which you've offered up beautifully. So I started
my own podcast this week called Dear Gabby, and it's
(42:33):
me workshopping coaching people in this way very extemporaneously with
all kinds of trauma and suffering. And my primary intention
for that podcast is too shift the shame and stigmas
and speak about the unspeakable, to give voice to the
(42:56):
unspoken shame, the things that people don't talk about, and
to normalize it. We're all suffering. One of the fastest
ways to acceptance that we're all that of our own
suffering is to recognize that we're not alone in it.
It's called Dear Gabby on all your Apple and podcast players.
(43:17):
That's where I would send people these days. Well, I
know what I'm listening to now, Um Gabby, thank you
so much, and I'm gonna be sliding into your d
m s because I'm gonna just need you every day,
so listen. I'm I'm proud of you. I think that
it's extremely brave to be vulnerable, and the greatest gift
you can give yourself in the world is your authentic
(43:37):
truth and your vulnerability. So just applaud yourself. And I
also think that you're going to go through this experience
looking back. So proud of your bravery and your vulnerability.
Thanks Gabby, Thank you, Gabby. I appreciate it. Everyone listened
to Dear Gabby um wherever you listen to your podcast
and then get her books because they're incredible. Thanks Gabby,
(44:00):
Thanks guys, thank you so much. Seriously, really appreciate it.
I gotta say I've slid into a few other like
self help d m s and like help me. I
(44:22):
mean why not like like give me like because it's
like I don't know if you went through this when
you with your miscarriage, but I mean it's grief is grief,
you know, like I don't think you can measure people's pain,
and you know, and that is I remember going through
just being the worst pain ever, you know, going through
miscarriage and you just want to find like hope, you
want to find totally and I think, like what Gabby said,
(44:44):
like you're you're ready, willing and able. You're not someone
who thinks like I don't need the help. Like I
think it says a lot that you're like, no, no,
no help me. What can I do to get better?
What can I do to be a better person? But
our mom? You know? So yeah, I mean it keeps
sliding because self help. It's just there's something there's nothing
better than like getting Um, I just hope, even though
(45:08):
you don't feel hope. It's just like I've been knee
deep and like quotes, Listen, I'm all about the quotes
and the words, like say it as many times as
you need, read it as many times as you need.
I really think that there's something words or something about words. Yeah.
And it's also about connecting with people that have been
there as well, so I have UM. I talked about
(45:28):
her earlier in the show about how she's been a
a light in the darkness for me, UM and someone
who's really helping me kind of walk along my recovery
journey as you know, as a love addict, you know,
because it's like I just I want love and I
don't want to be alone, and UM, so we have
(45:49):
brian Davis, Um this show. Hi Brianne, Hi, Lovely Ladies. Um.
Brianne is a sex and love addict, and she had
has been walking Um you know you guys had her
on the show, UM last year and UM just walking
through this journey with me and UM, you know she's
(46:12):
she'll always she'll text me be like hey, I'm about
to happen a meeting and I've I've done some meetings
and it's been really nice to just have a community. Um.
Can you speak to on that community brand just of
like how important it is to find something like that
when you're in places of grief and needing connection. Yeah.
I mean the first step is you're not alone. Other
(46:34):
people are going through the same pain, the same feeling,
the same loss, the powerlessness. You know, when we look
outside of ourselves for someone to fix us or be
the answer, or get an unavailable person to love us
that's not capable of loving us. To find a community,
to get on a meeting with thirty other people, a
(46:55):
hundred other people, three hundred other people because the worldwide
and say my god, I'm not alone. That person is
feeling the same way. They went through the same thing.
And it's just the best community in the world because
there is recovery and sex and love addiction. You just
have to commit to getting better. And if you're not committed,
if you're not willing to look at your darkness, there's
(47:17):
no way you're going to get better. And you have
stepped into that, like, Okay, I have this thing I
need to look at and there is possible for change
and self love and all that goodness. Yeah, because I was,
you know, confiding in Briton, I'm like, I will say
I I was worried that I would get triggered on
(47:38):
there because I I don't like my sex addict husband,
you know, and it's I don't ever want to like.
But at the same time, I also know that like
we all have our stuff, but we're the people that
are in there are really wanting to change and grow,
just says I am too, you know, I'm like I
but it's it was it was interesting because I I
(48:02):
found myself like appreciating and like loving the fact that
there are people willing to do the work and with me.
I'm like I felt like I was coming off of
Heroin still. You know. It's just like my love addiction
is like love me, love me, like you know, show
me that I'm worth the fight. Well that I've told
you that, And I explained when I was getting my
(48:23):
six months chip, this man came in and he said,
I can quit heroin, but I can't quit her. And
he was addicted to this girlfriend that kept cheating on
him and cheating on him. And this was a man.
And I think we always think like the men is
the cheaters and it goes both ways. But hey, there's empathy.
If someone's willing to do the work and change, that's
(48:46):
where you can like stand up and say people change.
I know people say it once a cheater are always
a cheater. But I'm proof. I told you I used
to cheat. I we've had this discussion, and I used
to go from relationship to relationship like you and I
have talked about, and there is change is possible. But
you have to be willing to do the work. And yes,
(49:09):
you hate your cheater husband and he's not doing the work.
It pisces me off, like I've told you how angry
it makes me. Um, But you are willing to do
the work. You're willing to walk through the fire and
let it burn and come out on the other side,
and that is a beautiful, beautiful thing that you can't
feel yet, but as your friend, I can see you
(49:30):
on the other side. Thanks. Um, Like it's hard taking
like because I'm like, I don't feel it yet, but um,
the I'm curious because so I've been doing a lot
of sm on meetings and I've been sitting you know,
and sharing my story, and I a lot of d
(49:51):
MS that I've gotten in some of you know, just
like being in those meetings is they don't know how
to leave, and it's like that brokenness and they don't
feel good enough, and it's like that part just makes
me so sad for just the women out there that
are in that situation and where I'm still like struggling
of you know, not feeling good enough. It's like, how
how do you kind of walk through that path of
(50:13):
finding your strength? Well, I think the first thing is
admitting that you have a problem, admitting that you can't
walk away from this unavailable person. Just saying that and
saying I'm struggling. I want to pick up the phone
and call him. I want to try to make this work.
But you have to remember you could be the most
perfect person. You could have everything someone envisions as perfection,
(50:39):
but if they are not available, if they have something
that is shutting down there, you know, connection, there is
nothing you can do. And I think the first the
second thing is being like, there is nothing you can
do to make an available, unavailable person be available. It's impossible.
(50:59):
That's like the most impossible task ever. So I think
just understanding that, like you could do everything perfect, Jannah,
and it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter. But I look
at you and we've had this thing and I said,
but you've changed brand, You've changed, like I'm like, and
even when we were on the meeting the other day,
I was like, but do they do they get back together?
(51:20):
Like there's this like because I long for the like
you know, I long for this, you know, um the change,
but at some point, like there just might not be changed,
right right. I mean you and I've had this discussion
for years and I told you, you know, like stick
it out, maybe separate, maybe maybe you know, do that work.
(51:43):
And this last time I just said, you gotta get out.
It's not it's not happening. He's people, he's not taking
it seriously. And the reason that I have changed because
I was willing to look at all the things I
have done to feel those feelings too, you know, walk
through the process of getting healed from sex and love addiction.
(52:06):
It is harder to get through sex and love addiction
than a A and A Not that any any addiction
is bad, but when you're addicted to people, when you're
addicted to sexual acts, it is like the most difficult addiction.
And like I said, you have to be willing to
change for I change for me, not for my husband,
(52:28):
not for anybody else. I had to change for me.
And if you're not willing to change for if he
wasn't willing to change for him, he's never going to change.
He's never going to change. I feel like that's just
like what we've all been saying over and over and
like that's what Like how do you tell someone Janna
or others listening like it wasn't you, it's not you.
(52:52):
Because I even said, I'm like, you know, all the
resources in the world, someone could have everything they ever needed,
but like they have to do it ultimately end of
the day. Yeah, I mean that's the problem. Janna has
to get to it herself. You and I can say
everything I can bring her in the program. I can
(53:13):
give the tools she can. She has to be the
one that her Psyche has to like let go of
the fantasy of what was or what could have been
and step into the reality of this is the situation.
This is where I am. I have to love myself
enough to walk away. And I'm saying this and this
(53:35):
is so hard for me, you guys to say, because
I'm an advocate for any sex attic, sex and love addict.
As Janna knows, I've been an advocate for their relationship.
But it's just like you have to let go when
someone is not willing to do the work. It takes
two people to do the work. And when that doesn't happen,
(53:55):
you have to be able to walk away. But nobody
can tell you. It's a process she has to go through,
just like I had to go through, just like my sponsors,
just like a million people I've worked with. Um, let's
talk about your book because you have a book out
and tell us all about it and yeah, well I
read it, Yeah, so the book is. I really I'm
(54:18):
really grateful that you brought me on because the reason
that I wanted to talk about sex and love act
I never wanted to break my anonymity, but nobody understands
it and they think it's like a made up disease
or it's a man's disease. I mean, Janna and I
had that whole conversation. But I wanted to write a
book that was fun. It's like a summer on the beach,
really fun book, but it also educates. You know, it's
(54:41):
a story of a girl in Hollywood going through her
first year of recovery. It's based on my life, other
people's experiences. There's other female characters in it, and you
really follow this journey of the first year of recovery,
what it looks like, how horrible it is. The subtext,
it's just like it will take you through the nitty gritty,
the dirty, the like embarrassing, all those things. And I
(55:04):
just wanted to make it fun but also educational and
people they can get it on Amazon um worldwide. We're
worldwide now and yeah, and the audible just came out
and it was torture recording. I almost called you and
was like, can you just read the character because I
don't want to relive all these horrible things that have happened. Well,
(55:27):
it's called The Secret life of a sex and love addict.
It's an awesome read. Um, it's fun. But yeah again
it's it's it's you're also going to get an in
in that in that world. Um yeah, this is what
This has been a heavy show. Yeah, well I mean
that's life. Yeah, like and it won't always be like this. Yeah.
(55:53):
And feelings here's the thing that really helped me. Feelings
are meant to be felt. We especially you know your tendency,
my tendency, we don't want to feel feelings. We want
to feel euphoria. Love addicts, exotics want to feel euphoria.
But feelings are meant to be felt, and you have
to feel them, and you're feeling them. And every time
I would cry, my therapist would tell me, you're digging
(56:16):
through this to get to your gold, Like Janna, you're
digging through this to get to your gold. So every
time you cry, just like pat yourself on the back
that you're willing to walk through these uncomfortable sad you know,
abandonment feelings and it will go away one day, I promise.
I'm gonna hold you do that, okay right now. Um,
(56:39):
but Brianne, thank you so much for coming on the show,
and guys, for everyone listening, I hope that I apologize
that was a rough one to get through. Um, Sarah,
thanks for flying in and doing this of course, UM,
and everyone please listen to her podcast as well. Oh my,
this is not the timing, this is not the chicks.
(57:00):
It's amazing. They talk about you know, shows, movies, all
of it. They're like, they're hilarious. It's a good one.
You're welcome. UM. I always want to support my friend,
but like, this is about you. This is like, no,
we're supporting you today. And but what we can I
promise you every week will not be a SOB show.
We're going to figure this out and let us know,
(57:23):
you know, some things that you guys want us to
continue to talk about, and UM, yeah, we'll figure this
out together. We're on this journey together. And I hope
that we were able to help people today get through
um whatever they're grieving or having pain or lost with
so UM, I'll see you guys next week hopefully. Bye guys,
M wind Down with Janet Kramer and I have our
radio podcast. My heart is like pounding, so is mine. UM,
welcome back to wind Down. Uh, this is so sorry
(00:25):
for everyone listening right now. This is not easy. UM.
I have Sarah Gretzky hi in Nashville with me. She
surprised me yesterday, and UM, we're gonna we're gonna get
you through this. We're gonna get you through this. For
(00:45):
those of you that haven't seen the news, UM, I
filed for divorce, uh a few weeks ago, and it
has not been easy. I'll say that. UM. And honestly,
(01:06):
I don't even know, like like I don't even know
if I want to do the show anymore. I mean
completely honest. Um, you know, I started the show, you know,
by myself and something I always wanted to do. And um,
(01:30):
and then you know, once Mike came on as a guest,
and then we talked about our stuff, and you know,
he said that he loved sharing, and so then we
partnered together and but then it just felt like ours.
And so now it feels weird, um, not having him
(01:50):
on here, and uh, I don't know, like it's not
it's just it feels weird. It's like a m I mean,
I can imagine. So this is this was y'all's thing
that took off. This is this has always been your thing,
but you know when you guys joined together, it really
(02:12):
became I mean it was the two of you. And
now you're here, which is so I don't even know
how you're doing it. You're so strong, And that's what
I want you to know that everyone listening right now
loves you, has your back, and you could come on
here and talk about absolutely nothing and everyone is still
(02:33):
going to cheer for you and lift you up. So
just know that you have an insane army behind you
of all of these listeners who are literally just tuning
in today to hear that you're okay, Like they just
want to know that you're okay, and it's it's tasts.
So you've got balls to be able to come on here,
and you're so strong to be able to, you know,
(02:55):
address it. And and I'm just amazed. So cry and
you take No one wants to hear an hour of crying,
but I mean you won't sniffling is like stop the sniffling, No,
but you I mean it's hard right now, and even
last night, like you you've. I definitely think you're better
(03:17):
like you are. Yeah, I know you might not feel it,
but it takes time. I mean it's fresh, but even
you know, every day so cliche, but every day you're
tackling something and you're feeling better, you know. I don't
know about that. I feel like it goes in waves.
Um like I've. I feel like I'm so in the
(03:45):
middle of the grieving where it's like and I when
when I when I grieve, I isolate and I am
like I don't want to I don't respond to like
my people, and I just like stay in bed. And
I had a friend come over the other day and
she was just like like I'm here for the grieving.
(04:06):
But at the same time, she's like, you have to
get out of bed, and I'm like, I don't. I
don't know how. Sometimes it's like and it's like the
days that you know, I've and obviously I have to
because the kids, But the morning and the night are
the hardest because it's like I I wake up and
it's like that scene in Sex in the City where
she's like was it a dream? And then at night
(04:30):
it's like my like I just can't. I can't sleep,
and it's like, you know me, I'm usually in bed
by eight thirty and like lights out by nine, and
now I'm like counting the clock at two in the
morning and being like, oh god, I gotta get up,
and you know, the best mom I can be, but
it's like I've never It's just it's it's so on.
(04:52):
It's so hard when I have all these feelings and
emotions and um and then I have to be a
mom on top of it. It's like it's I almost
like the first week I counted down the nap time
because I was like, Okay, I can go in my
room and just like shut the door and like cry
and my like just like cry, you know, and then
(05:13):
like button it back up by like because it's like
obviously I don't want the kids seeing this, of course.
And I think that's I mean, everything you're saying right now,
anyone who's been through this, I think this is so
normal and so relatable. Like you're not alone in feeling
this way. It's just something that you're trying to navigate
and you're doing the best that you can. Like you said,
it's like, of course you're grieving, but it's like the
(05:34):
kids are up and stuff I don't have. You don't
have time to grieve. It is game time all day
for you. And so I think that you're doing the
best that you can. Like you, you really really are.
I've only been here for a day, but I've seen it,
and well, you caught me. I was angry. I've been
I've been sad, sad, sad, said sad, and then I
hit a. You saw me on my one angry day.
(05:55):
But I think, I mean, I think it's okay to
be angry, and I think it's healthy to be angry
because you know, everyone goes through waits. First you're sad,
then you're you know, first we get sad, then we
get mad. And I think it's okay whatever you're feeling,
even if you were feeling happy or whatever you feel,
it's okay to feel that. And I think that's important
for you to just remind yourself that you're doing the
(06:18):
best you can. You're Nobody ever expected this, yeah, like
this was not something you were like, I mean, not
that anyone's ever prepared, but like you know, yeah, I
I I do owe it to you, know, you and
my friends. It's because because I still can't physically do
(06:42):
things because of my freaking boob job that I got,
so I can't lift things. I can't, you know. And
it's like I've I've had friends come over here and
you know, do my Now I can do it all,
but like, well not all of it, but like I
couldn't even put glasses in the ashwasher because I was
so depressed. Like I was like I had literally had
(07:03):
my girls on rotation being like doing my dishes, taking
my trash out, you know, like helping clean the house,
like helping me. Well, I'm just like a zombie. And
that was like for two weeks, I was just in
a totally and now I just kind of go in
and out of like crying. And then because I didn't
want this at the end of the day, like I think,
(07:24):
I think we're like where I'm at as I'm embarrassed,
Like I'm embarrassed by Yeah, I'm I'm embarrassed that this
is how it ended. And then I also feel like
I let people down because it's you know, we've come
out here and we fought and we fought for it,
but really the words that was spoken wasn't I don't
(07:48):
know they were honest from me is what I'll say. Yeah,
I mean, I'm I'm speechless, like I'm trying to find words,
and I just I don't want you to feel any
of those things, embarrassed, whatever it is, because I mean,
I'm someone who considers myself in in the circle, in
(08:10):
the Mix, podcast with You guys, shows with you, I
was so this took me by like I was completely
completely shook and shocked at all of this, So I
can't even imagine how it was for you. And I
just yeah, I yeah, I mean I did too, because
(08:33):
even a few days before things came to light, we
were like, wow, we're really good right now, you know,
And I was like that was where it was just
like a because I thought we were good, and you know,
even people on Instagram or like you guys seem so happy,
and I was like, yeah, I thought so too. You know.
It's where it's like yeah, um, But I just I
(08:56):
do want to say thank you to everyone who's reached out,
and i'd say of so many d m s and messages,
and I appreciate just hearing how you guys have walked
through the same path and gotten to the other side,
because right now I don't see the other side. Right now,
I'm just like I'm gonna be alone forever, and like,
you know, I'm kind of playing the you know, the
(09:19):
SOB story um and but you know, just hearing your
guys of stories. But also like what kind of breaks
my heart too, is there's been so many messages of
people being like how did you get the courage to leave?
I want to leave. I don't know how, you know,
like I'm scared, and I'm like, there's there was actually
(09:40):
more messages of that, and I was shocked by it.
But I'm the same time, I'm like I didn't. I
still don't have the strength. Like it's just something where
it's like I have no choice. That's a good point. Yeah,
I mean I think I think so many people are
in your situation and it's either they whether they turn
(10:04):
a blind eye or they are in it for the
kids or whatever reason. But it's it's sad to think
that there are people who are struggling out there and
look at you as like, you know, how did you
do it? Like you're so strong. I'm like I am
the weakest I've ever been. Like it maybe hopefully in
the future, like I'll feel that strength, but I'm like
(10:25):
I went to my therapist a few weeks ago and
being like, you know what, fine, I'll you know, I'll
just I'll live this life. It's okay, Like I don't
want to break up my family because my whole thing
is like I didn't want this for the kids, like
I've stayed for my kids, you know, even when other
things happen. And but you know, my therapist was like,
you don't want to live that life where you're just
(10:47):
constantly like it's taking your light away, it's taking your everything.
And I'm just like, yeah, but my kids and like
we'll be together, and like I don't want like the
first time that they like me for overnight, I'm gonna
be destroyed. It's not what I wanted. It's not what
I worked for, it's not what I fought for. It
is not king fair, and that makes me so angry.
(11:13):
It's like that I've I worked too damn hard for
it to end this way you did. And but I
just feel like now I'm like I don't like how
like there'd be no way like we I just like
and in my mind, I'm like I even asked, I
asked some people like how like okay, how could I
how could I try again? Like give me? But then
(11:34):
I realized I was like, I'm now not I'm now weak.
I always thought I was strong by staying. I'm now
weak for staying because I'm staying because I don't want
to be alone. I'm staying because I want to keep
my family together. And I don't know if I believe
if I don't, I don't know if I believe a
change anymore. Yeah, And I think sometimes, I mean, it's
(11:56):
so hard, the scenarios back and forth. But I think
in sir, scenarios, you know it is strong to stay.
But I think in this scenario, you are so strong
for walking away, Like I know you don't feel it,
but like you're sitting here crying for your family, like
you will look back like the strength I mean, I
know I keep bringing up today or last, but like
the last twenty four hours, like the strength that I
(12:19):
see is like I can't I can't even imagine. So
you are so strong even though it doesn't feel like
it right now. But I think you're right. You really
just had no choice. I mean I had friends that
were like basically tell me they would lose respect for me.
(12:43):
And those were the friends that were always like, we
love you and support you no matter what you know,
and that's tough, because that's tough. But as a friend,
I yeah, like you can only watch someone go through
so much before it actually starts to kill you. As
the front. When I realized I'm like I've told my
therapist is I was like, I feel like now I'm
(13:04):
the addict where I'm addicted, and I've I've been doing
meetings and stuff and I um someone who she's a
friend of mine. She's a sex and love addict and
she's kind of like my sponsor. I've never really asked her,
but I've been calling her so much. Her name's Brian
and um and she I was like, Brian, I was like,
(13:27):
I feel like I'm coming off of heroin. Like I'm
I'm like, I've never touched a drug before, but that's
what it feels like where I'm just like I need it,
like but it's like, what what do I need? Like
is that's not healthy? Like that's not I don't even
know what that healthy version looks like anymore. So it's like, ah,
(13:48):
but it's just I've never felt that coming off of
something like that, and I just but you know I had.
It's just sucks, I know, and I hate seeing you
like this. I hate that you feel this way, but
I genuinely believe, and I've told you this a thousand times.
(14:11):
You're getting probably sick of it, but I genuinely genuinely
believe that when you come out of all of this,
whether it's a month, six months, a year, five years,
you're light. You are going to shine so bright you
thought you were happy to three years ago, like you
don't even know happy. And I genuinely believe that, like
(14:33):
you're gonna be like, oh my god, I'm just so
You're going to radiate happiness and sunshine to the people.
Your friends are gonna look at you and be like,
you know you you did it. You're so strong. You
didn't think you were strong. And I know I keep
saying that, but like I really I think the last
(14:55):
I think it's been hard for you. I think I
think this has been really hard for you because like
any relationship, ups and downs, everything, But you know, I
can't wait for you to just be a ray of
sunshine that you are but like times ten, because you
really are going to. I mean, people keep saying that,
(15:16):
but I'm just like I don't feel that, like, and
that's where I'm just like I lay in bed and
I'm just like where I go through my like I'm
gonna be alone and like I'm not gonna be the
kids and this that another, and it's like I just
I want to believe that, but I don't feel that now.
That's kind of where I'm at and that's okay to
not feel it now, Hi, Mark him. I had a
question kind of based on what Sarah was just saying
(15:37):
about how hard it's been for you. Is there any
part of you that feels relief that you no longer
have to be wondering, no longer waiting for the other
shoe to drop? Um? There is there. Yeah, there's a
There's definitely moments where it's like it's nice to not
(16:00):
have to wonder, worry, look um, because I was always
so afraid of that moment um And you know, I
even we had a conversation a few weeks before everything
kind of came to light, and I was just like,
if there's anything, like, just tell me. I don't want
(16:22):
to find it, like whatever it is, like we can
work through it, because I just don't want to and
like it was such a connected moment, and you know,
he swore on his sobriety there was nothing and um,
so yeah, but knowing now that like what I know,
and not having to yeah, not having to look at
(16:46):
things and question and wonder and worry, there is some
relief and that, Um, but I'm not fully there yet.
I think I'll get there once I get past all
the other I'm as because everything else is kind of
like my friends are reminding me of that and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
you're right, But there's still so much sadness. And most
(17:07):
of the sadness just comes from my kids, um, because
they didn't deserve this. They didn't they didn't ask for this, um.
And then also the dream of what I thought it
was going to be, and the um who I thought
(17:28):
I was working with, and the who you know he
said to all of us who he was, you know,
so it's a not having that really be a reality
is kind of a slap in the face. Well, I
thought I saw a quote today that I thought of you.
I said, I thought, Um, the quote is the moment
(17:51):
you start to believe you deserve better, you do, So
I am happy for you, and I do think that
like Sarah was saying, you will look back on this
as um a turning point one day and a year
from now, two years from now, you'll be very happy
that you made the decision you did. I'm gonna be
alone Mark forever. You're not, because you're gonna be so happy.
(18:16):
You're going to attract people to you that you didn't eat. Like.
Here's the thing, though, And I have so much work
to do on myself because I've just picked the worst,
Like my first guy, which I hate, you know saying this,
but like you know, I hate I hate when they're
like even married, you know three. It's like my first
guy I met in two weeks, we went to you know,
(18:37):
Vegas and got married. I was nineteen, Like I was
an idiot. I don't consider that a marriage, and he
ended up trying to kill me. The second guy, we
were married for a week, Like no, those two were
not marriage and I wish I could just wipe those
and like, this is my first marriage, this is what
I've fought for, and like, but I just I was
reading in my diary just like because I was like,
(18:58):
I gotta figure this out, Like and why am I
still wanting something that doesn't want to you know, change
and grow and and and fight and um, I mean,
I know it has nothing to do with me, but
I'm like, why do I still like I have this
thing in me where I'm just like, I've never felt
like I was good enohing. I don't know if that
(19:18):
came from, you know, my parents divorced. I don't know.
And I I mean, I know some of it, like
why but I look back on my journal entries and
it's like, I know I need to leave, but why
can't I? And I'm like, why was I so weak?
It's like why do I Why am I pining for
like these men to like love me? You know, I
don't know if it's weak or if you just didn't know,
(19:42):
you didn't have the tools, or you didn't understand. And
now I think you do. Like you said, I mean,
I think it's really big of you to admit that
you have work to do on yourself. I think that's huge,
like that you are owning this and saying I gotta
work on myself too. And that's why, you know, don't
blame me. I don't want you to lame yourself, because
I think all of us in this little circle right
(20:04):
here can literally I mean we all worked very closely together,
Like I think, it's not like you were you know, mh,
this came out of left field. I'm gonna do the work, though,
and I'm gonna attract one day, not now, one day
(20:24):
hopefully I'll I'll be healthy to attract healthy, and you're
gonna have like a ton of us behind you, having
our checklist making sure. I can't even think about that
right now, exactly. Please don't focus on you know that
is like the first it is. I know it is
you and those kids are are which is a perfect
(20:45):
thing to focus on. Yeah, um, anything, Mark, I have
a question for you, yes, um, what like how we
go forward? Because I don't know. I'm like, I don't
(21:05):
want this to be now like the divorce guide you
know of single mamas. I don't want you know, It's
like I don't you want like a re like what
like how do we rebrand this? How do we? How
do we what do we? What do we do? I
don't even know, Like I don't know that we need
to as a rebrand necessarily. That's such a cold way
of looking at it. Um. I think this has always
(21:27):
been about your journey, you know, because this show started
as just you. Now it's you again in the future.
Who knows what it will be. It's going to evolve,
it's going to continue. People listen for you, they love you,
and they want to know about you. And now it's
going to be about you pulling it all back together again,
rebuilding somewhat. But it's also going to be the people
(21:49):
you talk to and what's going on in your life.
And the kids did this, and I think there's plenty
of there's so much positive in your life that we'll
be able to focus on. I don't think it's going
to be a sad divorce divorce a podcast. And you
have so many fans. You're like, you brought people here,
you know, the two of you didn't. Maybe you brought some,
but you, like we've all said, you started this, this
(22:11):
was a dream of yours. And I think you have
so many people who are like, you know, listening right now,
yelling at their phone like no, please keep doing this,
like we love you, we we're here for you, we
want to hear you. And so I agree with Mark, well,
I'll keep going. I mean at your you know, let's
(22:33):
keep you healthy. Yeah, Um, we have Gabby Bernstein coming
on the show. She's a number one New York Times
best selling author. We've had her on the show before. Um,
but she's basically an awesome life coach and writer and
just I mean she's she's she needs to inspire us,
(22:54):
so can't I Let's stake a break and then get
her one. Okay. So really happy to have Gabby on
(23:17):
because hopefully she'll give us some insights because I gotta
believe that I'm not the only person going through grief
and trauma. You're not, yes, And I know that. UM.
So that's why, you know, like I said, I'm not
going to have each episode be this heavy thing. But
I also I'm at the point of where of my
(23:40):
kind of grieving and of losses now I need something
to that I can like hold onto. So I guess Gabby,
my first question is, you know, well, I'll ask this
to um, because I've been told that it's not good
to just mask grieving and not grieve like you have
to you have to sit in it, right. I think
(24:03):
that you have to fully feel something all the way
through to completion mhm, until you know that you have
given yourself the full bodied expression of the emotional experience
to allow it to actually move through you ultimately, and
(24:24):
it may be a daily practice. It might be a
daily practice of living in that full expression of feeling
the grief. And what happens for most people is when
they push past that grief and that suffering, they may
move beyond it through anesthetizing it with you know, the
next relationship, or the drugs and the alcohol or the
(24:45):
work addiction or whatever it is that they can numb
it out with, but it's still there. It doesn't actually
go away. The energetic disturbance is still dwelling. So the
more you give yourself permission to go there now, to
feel the experience all the way through, to give yourself
permission to grieve, the better you will be faster, the
(25:08):
healthier you will be faster. And actually want to take
back the word better because what's better, right, Better today
is just that you're feeling more. Better today is that
you're giving yourself more permission to feel. So it's not
that you're getting better, but you'll be freer from the
experience the more you allow yourself to experience it. How
do you I think I'm stuck in the I'm stuck
(25:32):
in there, Like what if it's like what if he
does change this time, or what if like you know, um,
you know this person would change, And it's like, how
do you how do you kind of not focus on
the what ifs and just start living your life? If
thet's talk back to the what if because they don't.
They're not real. The what ifs are a projection from
(25:55):
the past onto the present or a projection of the
of the future that doesn't exist. So what if something
could have been differently or what if it could be
different in the future is not real. It doesn't exist.
All that's real is what's happening right here in this moment.
So this sounds really esoteric and pretty like self help
(26:17):
new ag, but it's the most valuable thing you could
do is to be fully present in the moment with
whatever is up today and show up for today without
the digging up the past and the future tripping of
the future. Because all there is is right here right now.
That's it. That's all there is. There's nothing else. There
(26:37):
is no what if yesterday was different or what if
tomorrow could be a different way I wanted to be
doesn't exist. I mean, what when you went through your miscarriage, Sarah,
what was how did you get out of your grief? Um,
I really allowed myself to feel it. Like I'm like you,
I go into hiding, I go underground. Um it's probably
not the healthiest, but for me, that's what is best.
(27:01):
Like I just need to step back, cry it out,
and then I'm someone who it's almost like I shed that,
like I felt it. I allowed myself to feel it,
and then I can kind of grow from it. And
and that's why, you know, I think, like what you
guys are saying, like whatever you're grieving process is allow
(27:22):
it because you know you're either going to be someone
who goes and drinks every single night or copes with
it in whatever way that you feel, or or you're
gonna face it. And I think facing it, as hard
as it is is you know. So when someone says
that they don't want to sit in it and that
we all grieve differently and they go off and do
(27:44):
fun things, that's really not the healthiest version. Well. I
always say that you have to show up for WhatsApp
or it will keep showing up. So, Okay, you want
to go party for a week because you just need
to let it out or you just need to numb out. Okay.
We all have coping mechanisms that we may rely on
from time to time, and as long as they're not
life threatening or harming others, okay, maybe we need them
(28:07):
for a moment, that's okay, that's okay. But you don't
want to stay there. You don't want to stay stuck
there because you don't want to avoid what's up. You
need to show up for it. If you don't show
up for it, it'll keep coming up. It'll come up
in the next relationship, It'll come up in the next
job experience, or whatever. The issue. Maybe if it's not
resolved in the president's going to continue to manifest in
(28:28):
the future. So if I go to Miami for what
would have been my sixer wedding anniversary, that's okay for
me to like not keep continue to sulk. A month
later and it's like, it's okay for me to like
go out, but I need to come back slute, Okay, Well,
I I think that grieving isn't about always being upset.
I think that there's allowing yourself, as we've already said,
(28:51):
to be fully present, to feel it all the way through,
to truly allow yourself the permission to go there, and
then to also give yourself permission to good days, give
yourself permission to have fun, go to Miami, dance on
the table, whatever, do your thing, because you need to
live it minute by minute. When you're in traumatic grief,
(29:15):
it is a minute by minute thing. It's not Okay,
I'm going to be good in a month or two months.
It's like what am I doing right in this moment?
Did I shower today? How do you? Yeah? Because that's
that's where I'm like, it's is it depression because it's
like it's like it's it takes so much energy for
(29:35):
me to even put like my my bowl in the
sink now, Like it's like it takes like every part
of and it's I'm like, God, I'm like I feel weak,
Like I feel like I'm like this weak person that
I'm like I can't even like like it's almost like
I just want to snap out of it. But it's
like that's I just feel like my body is just
kind of like I'm just feeling Is a depression or
(29:58):
is that just a part of grief? Depression is a
part of grief. But I actually have a hit that
I want to do something with. You would you be
open to doing something that I think could give you
a lot of relief right now. Okay, let's do it.
So this is called emotional freedom technique. It's otherwise known
as tapping. Have you guys heard of this? You know
what this is? I've done? Like? Is it similar to
(30:18):
like m d R. It's quite similar to m d R.
So E. M d R otherwise is known as eye
movement to sensitization and reprocessing. And I think absolutely epic
for you right now would be to get into some
regular evening twice twice a week. Well, there you go.
You are hooked up. You are on the fast tract
of freedom. I'm proud of you. That's amazing. So E
(30:38):
m d R was extraordinarily beneficial for me when I
was going through deep trauma recovery of my own in
my own way, and I can say, you're all hooked
up now. Similar to m d R, E f T
addresses the emotional disturbance, and it expands that window of
tolerance to feel into things that we otherwise might be
(30:59):
to protect of. And it also allows us to regulate
our nervous systems so that we can actually process things
with a greater sense of safety rather than being in
that fight flight response. Okay, what you do is you
tap on different energy meridians and you're gonna follow me.
Tap on the side of your hand, eyebrow, side of
(31:20):
the eye, under the eye, under the nose, the chin,
the collar bone, under the arm, on the top of
the head. You're gonna follow me. So you don't have
to remember that. And I'll say it also so someone's listening,
they can tap along with us. Yes, tap with us,
because you whoever is tapping along will borrow the benefits
(31:41):
of the tapping as well. So this is where we begin.
We well, you're gonna follow me, but the main process
is we tap on the most pressing issue, the real disturbance,
the grief, the trauma. We're gonna let you name it.
And then when I recognize as I see a change,
I'm gonna start to guide you into the positive. But
(32:04):
only when I noticed that it's safe enough to go there,
and we may go. If you hear me talking about
things that are like, oh, that sucks, I really I
really hate that she's saying that that's good. Like just
let's just let's be real. This isn't about this is
no small talk. Which is going right into big talk.
I don't even need to describe it too much. I
want you to experience it. So tap with me while
we talk for a second. Just tap on the side
(32:24):
of that karate chop point right here, and just talk
to me for a second about the most pressing issue
right now is just in your own words, what is
the most pressing issue? That my family isn't together anymore?
Family isn't together anymore? And like you know, like, yeah,
(32:47):
I lost my family. I lost I lost the um
what I the dreams of our family being together as
a unit. I lost my dream of my family to be.
I lost my dream of my family. Okay, and anyone
else that's tapping along with us, they can apply this
(33:08):
to any form of loss that they may having, maybe
having may not be specific to you, but it's their
own loss. Okay. Now, from a scale of zero to ten,
where is that grief? Where is that that with that pain?
Totally okay, So just repeat after me, and just so
I'm super clear, the most pressing issue is I'm I
(33:31):
say it again in your own words. I want to
hear it exactly. Oh god, there's like a million but yeah,
the most pressing I would say, is that, Um, I
didn't want this. I didn't want my family to not
be together. Okay, my family's I didn't want my family
not to be together. Okay to repeat after me. Even
though I didn't want my family not to be together.
(33:55):
Even though I didn't want my family not to be together,
I deeply and completely love and accept myself. Take good time,
keep tapping and breathing. I just don't believe that yet. Yeah,
(34:23):
even if you don't believe it, just say the words.
Repeat after me. I deeply and completely I do believed,
completely love and accept myself, love and accept myself. Even
though I never wanted my family not to be together.
Even though I never wanted my family to be together,
okay not to be together. Well, I'll change it up
(34:44):
a little. I deeply and completely, deeply and completely love
and accept myself, love and accept myself. And even though
I'm devastated that my family is not together, and even
though I'm devastated that my face only it's not together,
I deeply and completely, deeply and completely love and accept myself,
(35:09):
love and accept myself. Let's go to the eyebrow point.
And the eyebrow point is right there where the hair
of your eyebrow meets the bone, and I'm ana ten.
Just repeat after me. I'm at a ten, I'm out
of ten. Side of the eye. I never wanted my
(35:31):
family not to be together. I never wanted my family
not to be together. Under the eye, I couldn't have
imagined this. I could not have imagined this. Under the nose,
I can't even get the ball in the sink. I
can't even get the ball in the sink. Chin, I
(35:55):
can't get the ball in the sink. I can't get
the bull in the sink. Collar bone. All this pain,
all this pain under the arm, all this what ifs,
all the what ifs. Top of the head. I never
(36:16):
didn't want my family not to be together. I never
didn't want my family not to be together. Hiro a point,
I never wanted my family to split up. I never
wanted my family to split up. Side of the eye,
having it's hard time for giving myself. I'm having a
(36:39):
hard time for giving myself under the eye, am having
a hard time accepting myself and having a hard time
accepting myself. Under the nose, I'm having trouble accepting myself.
I'm having trouble accepting myself. Chen having some trouble accepting myself.
(37:00):
I'm having some trouble accepting myself. Collar bone and all
that means to me, and all that means to me
under the arm. Kind sucks, skin sucks over the head,
This really sucks, is really good zucks. I wrote, why me?
(37:26):
Side of the Eye. I never saw this coming. I
never saw this coming under the eye. I never thought
this would be me. I never thought this would be
me under the nose. Kind sucks sucks under the chin.
It really really sucks. It really really sick sucks collar bone,
it really really really really sicking sucks. Yes, really sucks
(37:52):
over the head, and I just I just want relief,
and i just want really eyebrow, and I'm working for it,
and I'm working for it. Side of the eye. I'm
doing my two E M. D R sessions a week
sessions to MR sessions a week under the eye, and
I'm doing my work, and I'm doing my work and
(38:15):
reading a ton of self help books. Under the nose.
I'm reading a ton of self help books. I'm reading
a ton of self help books and the chin and
that is something I'm proud of, and that is something
I am proud of collarbone. I'm really actually quite proud
of myself. I am proud of myself. Under the arm,
(38:37):
I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of myself. Out of ahead,
I'm showing up for myself. I'm showing up for myself.
I'm showing up for myself in the present moment. I'm
showing up for myself in the present moment. Out of
the eye, I'm showing up for myself in the present moment.
I'm showing up for myself in the present moment. Under
(38:57):
the eye, I'm showing up for myself. For the future,
I'm showing up for myself for the future. And under
the nose, everything I'm doing now is hooking me up
for my future. Everything I'm doing now is hooking me
up for my future. Under the chin, I'm proud of myself.
I'm proud of myself. All are wrong. I accept myself.
(39:20):
I accept myself. I really can accept myself right now.
I really can accept myself right now. And this is
the only moment that matters right now. And this is
the only moment that matters right now. One more round.
I accept myself right now. I accept myself right now.
Side of the eye, I accept myself right now. I
(39:40):
accept myself right now. Under the eye, I accept and
forgive myself. Right now, I accepted and forgive myself. Right now.
Under the nose, I accept and forgive myself. Right now,
I accept and forgive myself right now. Shin, I'm doing great.
(40:02):
I'm doing good. Color. I'm doing as good as I
can do today hand and as good as I can
Under the arm, I'm doing as good as I can
do today. I'm doing as good as I can do today.
On top of the head, I'm doing as good as
I can do today. I'm doing as good as I
and do today. I'll take a deep breath in and
(40:22):
just place your right hand on your heart and your
left hand and your belly and breathe and on the excel,
let it go. You can cannonball breath like breathe deep
in and on the excel, cannonball breath, let it go.
M just when you're ready, just open your eyes and
just notice what you notice about your body. And from
(40:43):
the scale of zero to ten, now with the same
most pressing issue, I never wanted my family to split up.
Where are you now? I'm about five girl? Ye, thank
you You're welcome. Thank you for your bravery. That was
(41:07):
a little bit long tapping, but I hope people borrowed it,
because when you tap along, the listener or the viewer
can borrow the benefits even if it's not exactly related
to them. You cut it in half and seven minutes,
maybe six minutes, I don't know how long that was.
So I think that the point I want to give
(41:28):
you is that these practices E M, D R, E F. T.
Reading the self help books, talking about it, moving physically,
whatever it is that's working for you, you add it up,
and you add it up, and you added up and
you add it up, and each day that goes by,
it gets easier and easier. These are showing up for it, right, Gabby? Um?
(41:50):
Where can I mean? I know you have, I mean
you're just you're everywhere. You're incredible of people that haven't
heard of you before. Where what books can they get?
Where can they find you? Um? So that they can
reap the benefits that we just got today. And I
think the best place that people could find me I've
written a lot of books, but the best places I
just started a podcast called Deer Gabby, where I workshop
(42:12):
people just like we did here. This wasn't my intention today.
I was coming just a riff with you. But I
want when I see suffering, it's it's like I'm a fixer.
I got to just go in and just fix and
especially when I see that there's a desire, when there's
a willingness which you've offered up beautifully. So I started
my own podcast this week called Dear Gabby, and it's
(42:33):
me workshopping coaching people in this way very extemporaneously with
all kinds of trauma and suffering. And my primary intention
for that podcast is too shift the shame and stigmas
and speak about the unspeakable, to give voice to the
(42:56):
unspoken shame, the things that people don't talk about, and
to normalize it. We're all suffering. One of the fastest
ways to acceptance that we're all that of our own
suffering is to recognize that we're not alone in it.
It's called Dear Gabby on all your Apple and podcast players.
(43:17):
That's where I would send people these days. Well, I
know what I'm listening to now, Um Gabby, thank you
so much, and I'm gonna be sliding into your d
m s because I'm gonna just need you every day,
so listen. I'm I'm proud of you. I think that
it's extremely brave to be vulnerable, and the greatest gift
you can give yourself in the world is your authentic
(43:37):
truth and your vulnerability. So just applaud yourself. And I
also think that you're going to go through this experience
looking back. So proud of your bravery and your vulnerability.
Thanks Gabby, Thank you, Gabby. I appreciate it. Everyone listened
to Dear Gabby um wherever you listen to your podcast
and then get her books because they're incredible. Thanks Gabby,
(44:00):
Thanks guys, thank you so much. Seriously, really appreciate it.
I gotta say I've slid into a few other like
self help d m s and like help me. I
(44:22):
mean why not like like give me like because it's
like I don't know if you went through this when
you with your miscarriage, but I mean it's grief is grief,
you know, like I don't think you can measure people's pain,
and you know, and that is I remember going through
just being the worst pain ever, you know, going through
miscarriage and you just want to find like hope, you
want to find totally and I think, like what Gabby said,
(44:44):
like you're you're ready, willing and able. You're not someone
who thinks like I don't need the help. Like I
think it says a lot that you're like, no, no,
no help me. What can I do to get better?
What can I do to be a better person? But
our mom? You know? So yeah, I mean it keeps
sliding because self help. It's just there's something there's nothing
better than like getting Um, I just hope, even though
(45:08):
you don't feel hope. It's just like I've been knee
deep and like quotes, Listen, I'm all about the quotes
and the words, like say it as many times as
you need, read it as many times as you need.
I really think that there's something words or something about words. Yeah.
And it's also about connecting with people that have been
there as well, so I have UM. I talked about
(45:28):
her earlier in the show about how she's been a
a light in the darkness for me, UM and someone
who's really helping me kind of walk along my recovery
journey as you know, as a love addict, you know,
because it's like I just I want love and I
don't want to be alone, and UM, so we have
(45:49):
brian Davis, Um this show. Hi Brianne, Hi, Lovely Ladies. Um.
Brianne is a sex and love addict, and she had
has been walking Um you know you guys had her
on the show, UM last year and UM just walking
through this journey with me and UM, you know she's
(46:12):
she'll always she'll text me be like hey, I'm about
to happen a meeting and I've I've done some meetings
and it's been really nice to just have a community. Um.
Can you speak to on that community brand just of
like how important it is to find something like that
when you're in places of grief and needing connection. Yeah.
I mean the first step is you're not alone. Other
(46:34):
people are going through the same pain, the same feeling,
the same loss, the powerlessness. You know, when we look
outside of ourselves for someone to fix us or be
the answer, or get an unavailable person to love us
that's not capable of loving us. To find a community,
to get on a meeting with thirty other people, a
(46:55):
hundred other people, three hundred other people because the worldwide
and say my god, I'm not alone. That person is
feeling the same way. They went through the same thing.
And it's just the best community in the world because
there is recovery and sex and love addiction. You just
have to commit to getting better. And if you're not committed,
if you're not willing to look at your darkness, there's
(47:17):
no way you're going to get better. And you have
stepped into that, like, Okay, I have this thing I
need to look at and there is possible for change
and self love and all that goodness. Yeah, because I was,
you know, confiding in Briton, I'm like, I will say
I I was worried that I would get triggered on
(47:38):
there because I I don't like my sex addict husband,
you know, and it's I don't ever want to like.
But at the same time, I also know that like
we all have our stuff, but we're the people that
are in there are really wanting to change and grow,
just says I am too, you know, I'm like I
but it's it was it was interesting because I I
(48:02):
found myself like appreciating and like loving the fact that
there are people willing to do the work and with me.
I'm like I felt like I was coming off of
Heroin still. You know. It's just like my love addiction
is like love me, love me, like you know, show
me that I'm worth the fight. Well that I've told
you that, And I explained when I was getting my
(48:23):
six months chip, this man came in and he said,
I can quit heroin, but I can't quit her. And
he was addicted to this girlfriend that kept cheating on
him and cheating on him. And this was a man.
And I think we always think like the men is
the cheaters and it goes both ways. But hey, there's empathy.
If someone's willing to do the work and change, that's
(48:46):
where you can like stand up and say people change.
I know people say it once a cheater are always
a cheater. But I'm proof. I told you I used
to cheat. I we've had this discussion, and I used
to go from relationship to relationship like you and I
have talked about, and there is change is possible. But
you have to be willing to do the work. And yes,
(49:09):
you hate your cheater husband and he's not doing the work.
It pisces me off, like I've told you how angry
it makes me. Um, But you are willing to do
the work. You're willing to walk through the fire and
let it burn and come out on the other side,
and that is a beautiful, beautiful thing that you can't
feel yet, but as your friend, I can see you
(49:30):
on the other side. Thanks. Um, Like it's hard taking
like because I'm like, I don't feel it yet, but um,
the I'm curious because so I've been doing a lot
of sm on meetings and I've been sitting you know,
and sharing my story, and I a lot of d
(49:51):
MS that I've gotten in some of you know, just
like being in those meetings is they don't know how
to leave, and it's like that brokenness and they don't
feel good enough, and it's like that part just makes
me so sad for just the women out there that
are in that situation and where I'm still like struggling
of you know, not feeling good enough. It's like, how
how do you kind of walk through that path of
(50:13):
finding your strength? Well, I think the first thing is
admitting that you have a problem, admitting that you can't
walk away from this unavailable person. Just saying that and
saying I'm struggling. I want to pick up the phone
and call him. I want to try to make this work.
But you have to remember you could be the most
perfect person. You could have everything someone envisions as perfection,
(50:39):
but if they are not available, if they have something
that is shutting down there, you know, connection, there is
nothing you can do. And I think the first the
second thing is being like, there is nothing you can
do to make an available, unavailable person be available. It's impossible.
(50:59):
That's like the most impossible task ever. So I think
just understanding that, like you could do everything perfect, Jannah,
and it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter. But I look
at you and we've had this thing and I said,
but you've changed brand, You've changed, like I'm like, and
even when we were on the meeting the other day,
I was like, but do they do they get back together?
(51:20):
Like there's this like because I long for the like
you know, I long for this, you know, um the change,
but at some point, like there just might not be changed,
right right. I mean you and I've had this discussion
for years and I told you, you know, like stick
it out, maybe separate, maybe maybe you know, do that work.
(51:43):
And this last time I just said, you gotta get out.
It's not it's not happening. He's people, he's not taking
it seriously. And the reason that I have changed because
I was willing to look at all the things I
have done to feel those feelings too, you know, walk
through the process of getting healed from sex and love addiction.
(52:06):
It is harder to get through sex and love addiction
than a A and A Not that any any addiction
is bad, but when you're addicted to people, when you're
addicted to sexual acts, it is like the most difficult addiction.
And like I said, you have to be willing to
change for I change for me, not for my husband,
(52:28):
not for anybody else. I had to change for me.
And if you're not willing to change for if he
wasn't willing to change for him, he's never going to change.
He's never going to change. I feel like that's just
like what we've all been saying over and over and
like that's what Like how do you tell someone Janna
or others listening like it wasn't you, it's not you.
(52:52):
Because I even said, I'm like, you know, all the
resources in the world, someone could have everything they ever needed,
but like they have to do it ultimately end of
the day. Yeah, I mean that's the problem. Janna has
to get to it herself. You and I can say
everything I can bring her in the program. I can
(53:13):
give the tools she can. She has to be the
one that her Psyche has to like let go of
the fantasy of what was or what could have been
and step into the reality of this is the situation.
This is where I am. I have to love myself
enough to walk away. And I'm saying this and this
(53:35):
is so hard for me, you guys to say, because
I'm an advocate for any sex attic, sex and love addict.
As Janna knows, I've been an advocate for their relationship.
But it's just like you have to let go when
someone is not willing to do the work. It takes
two people to do the work. And when that doesn't happen,
(53:55):
you have to be able to walk away. But nobody
can tell you. It's a process she has to go through,
just like I had to go through, just like my sponsors,
just like a million people I've worked with. Um, let's
talk about your book because you have a book out
and tell us all about it and yeah, well I
read it, Yeah, so the book is. I really I'm
(54:18):
really grateful that you brought me on because the reason
that I wanted to talk about sex and love act
I never wanted to break my anonymity, but nobody understands
it and they think it's like a made up disease
or it's a man's disease. I mean, Janna and I
had that whole conversation. But I wanted to write a
book that was fun. It's like a summer on the beach,
really fun book, but it also educates. You know, it's
(54:41):
a story of a girl in Hollywood going through her
first year of recovery. It's based on my life, other
people's experiences. There's other female characters in it, and you
really follow this journey of the first year of recovery,
what it looks like, how horrible it is. The subtext,
it's just like it will take you through the nitty gritty,
the dirty, the like embarrassing, all those things. And I
(55:04):
just wanted to make it fun but also educational and
people they can get it on Amazon um worldwide. We're
worldwide now and yeah, and the audible just came out
and it was torture recording. I almost called you and
was like, can you just read the character because I
don't want to relive all these horrible things that have happened. Well,
(55:27):
it's called The Secret life of a sex and love addict.
It's an awesome read. Um, it's fun. But yeah again
it's it's it's you're also going to get an in
in that in that world. Um yeah, this is what
This has been a heavy show. Yeah, well I mean
that's life. Yeah, like and it won't always be like this. Yeah.
(55:53):
And feelings here's the thing that really helped me. Feelings
are meant to be felt. We especially you know your tendency,
my tendency, we don't want to feel feelings. We want
to feel euphoria. Love addicts, exotics want to feel euphoria.
But feelings are meant to be felt, and you have
to feel them, and you're feeling them. And every time
I would cry, my therapist would tell me, you're digging
(56:16):
through this to get to your gold, Like Janna, you're
digging through this to get to your gold. So every
time you cry, just like pat yourself on the back
that you're willing to walk through these uncomfortable sad you know,
abandonment feelings and it will go away one day, I promise.
I'm gonna hold you do that, okay right now. Um,
(56:39):
but Brianne, thank you so much for coming on the show,
and guys, for everyone listening, I hope that I apologize
that was a rough one to get through. Um, Sarah,
thanks for flying in and doing this of course, UM,
and everyone please listen to her podcast as well. Oh my,
this is not the timing, this is not the chicks.
(57:00):
It's amazing. They talk about you know, shows, movies, all
of it. They're like, they're hilarious. It's a good one.
You're welcome. UM. I always want to support my friend,
but like, this is about you. This is like, no,
we're supporting you today. And but what we can I
promise you every week will not be a SOB show.
We're going to figure this out and let us know,
(57:23):
you know, some things that you guys want us to
continue to talk about, and UM, yeah, we'll figure this
out together. We're on this journey together. And I hope
that we were able to help people today get through
um whatever they're grieving or having pain or lost with
so UM, I'll see you guys next week hopefully. Bye guys,
Host
Jana Kramer
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