Man Period

Mike shares a painful revelation he had recently about his past and how his mistakes have affected his family. This leads to uncovering a difficult memory that he’s never spoken about before. 

Jana confronts Mike about his “man period”. Is this a thing??

And we get a special preview from Jana and Mike’s book that will SHOCK you!

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down and podcast. We're missing some gold because because
Janna is making fun of our producer Mark. You know,
we're all recording from our homes. And I just have
like really grown to love Mark ceiling fan. And I
think it's a guy thing. I think it's a it's

(00:22):
a parent and and and guy thing, Like guys love
ceiling fans. Do you think it's I don't know if
it's a guy thing. I know, Mark, to your defense,
it wasn't until Janna and I got together that she
was like, whoa, whoa, whoa ceiling fans. I was like, yeah,
of course ceiling fans. And she's like, people don't do that.
What do you? People don't do that? But you don't

(00:44):
see ceiling fans in houses now Really they're more in
like your parents house. No, I mean you definitely conditioned
me where now I'm judge mcjuggerson, I'm like, how dare
you ceiling fan? Like I get him for like outside
and stuff. You know, I love a good ceiling fan
outside on the screen and porch. Defend your fan. Mark.

(01:05):
My wife is the strongest proponent of ceiling fans I've
ever met, because she has them all over the house.
She loves it because she's always a little warm, so
it keeps the room cool. So what replaces them? In
modern houses air conditioning? We have that too, but it
doesn't circulate as well if you don't have the ceiling fan.
I mean, I get super expensive chandelier like Jana once

(01:25):
in every room chandelier here. Yeah, no, I just think,
you know, I love the look of a chandelier versus
a fan in a room, like especially like a master
or but I get it, like I think that, I
think what some fans are kind of cool like and
if you have really tall ceilings like those living room
fans from you know, those are kind of cool. But

(01:45):
I don't know. Sorry, Eastern what do you think about
ceiling fans? I hate him. I hate him more than anything.
We took him out as soon as we moved into
this beautiful home. It was the biggest blemish on this
work of art that's our us home we bought together.
We ripped those things out with prejudice, took them out.
And why do you not like them so much? I

(02:06):
would like to I feel like, by the way, this
podcast is like a Seinfeld episode. We're just talking about
the most random things, like uh, you know, for being
called a ceiling fan. I'm not a fan of them.
It's there. Uh, here's what I don't like about him.

(02:27):
Here's my beef at the ceiling fan. I never know
when they're on or off. They're always going at a
weird speed. I never know if I've turned to model ring. Uh.
And I feel like, yes, they do circulate air like
like fine, But I feel like our a C does
just as good as a job. It doesn't look as bad.
We can get much cuter lights. Uh, there's I mean,

(02:47):
this was a ceiling fan at one point. Now it's
you can't tell them the webcam, but it's a giant
glowing orb. Now it's I don't know. I just feel
like it limits you in the light department. I would
have to agree, and Mark, you know what, I'm sorry
if you're if you're the odd man out here, but
I'm sure there's a lot of people on here that
are on your side, are on on team fan. There's

(03:08):
two chains. One is for the light and one is
for the fan. And I have never in my life
guest correctly right, never, I will agree with that. So
it's so true. Mark, that is the most accurate thing
ever because it's like, right, all right, it's the one
closest to the door next time. Damn it. Well, welcome

(03:29):
to another episode of Wine Down with Jenna Kramer and
Michael Cosson. That's how we start. I love You're welcomes.
It's just cute. Um yeah, no I I anyways, fans,
what else we're talking about when we started this? Um
reading some of our book? Oh yeah, yeah, I think
we should Costco? What happened? It's just ginna. I just

(03:51):
got home, literally walked in the door five minutes ago
from Costco, and Jeanne asked me how it was, and
I was kind of out of breath. I'm just like,
Costco is overwhelming. It's just I feel like my head's
on the swivel the whole time. Nothing's in the same place.
The things that Janna asked me to get are like
the smallest things that are possibly in Costco, like Vitamin
C gummies. You know, if I got a Publix or

(04:12):
Whole Foods, I know exactly where they are go to Costco.
Why do we have because I kind of fought you
in the membership because I don't think we need the
membership because we only get two things from Costco. These
Annie's cheddar puffs, which they didn't have, So what are
you serious? I looked high, low, left, right up, down,

(04:35):
I mean I looked everywhere. That's the thing with Costco.
It's a needle in a haystack. But they may have
stopped selling needles. Yes see, that's so frustrating. That's the
only reason I really want you to go there and
then to get the chicken nuggets, the chicken nuggets that
we like from there, But like, why are we paying
that much money for two things? That much money? It's
like a dollars a year to me. That's so Michael

(04:57):
and I have this thing, but that's still money that
we're not. You sing like it just bothers me. I
don't like it. This is where I go, you know,
I'm just I did get like a twenty pound brisket
that I'm going to cook because I made that one
last week. It was amazing. And what else did I get? Oh?

(05:18):
Remember when we first went to Costco and I was
complaining even on your Instagram about chicken bakes, yes, and
I was like, this is like, really, the only reason
I wanted to become a member it was to get
a chicken bake. Did you get at the little food
place after you check out? Well, to my surprise, I'm
standing in line. I look up. There it is. It's

(05:40):
on the menu. It's back gripping. So the piece of heaven.
I go to the Kiosk, I order one, but the
groceries in the car, I'm ready to take a big
old bite out of thing. Take a big old bite.
It tasted like it's been marinating in the ocean water
for sixty days, salt. Just like I couldn't get home

(06:02):
fast enough to get something to drink because I had
nothing in the car. I was like, this is not
what I remembered when I was tending going to Costco
with my parents. Did you eat it? I ate half
of it, and I was like, I can't even do this.
That's so nasty. Yeah, so interesting. Anyways, that was my morning.
Um huh huh. But I did want to start this

(06:22):
episode off with a more sentimental note until we got
got into it. Shots fired, shooting at Mark and talking
about Costco. Sentimental, yeah or just I think it's a
good setup for stuff that we may read about our book. Okay, Mike,
he said you wanted to bring something up that was

(06:44):
like sentimental, I think amidst laughter. Um no, I think
it's you know, sometimes we get away from some relational
stuff on here besides emails or d MS that we
bring up. But I think it's important, you know, because
our whole thing is talking about stuff we deal with

(07:06):
and being open and everything. And I was just driving
around town today, and you know, there are some physical
triggers around town where it's just like emotional for me,
where it's man, I remember staying in this hotel when
ship went down, and you know, thinking my life was
over and our marriage was over, and our family was over,

(07:28):
and you know, and then thinking about all the negative
things that I've done to hurt you and to hurt
this family. And I think my point is, you know,
I try to do a good job. I need to
do better at acknowledging these things. I don't have to

(07:50):
be on a on a super regular basis, but at
least bring them to your attention, to let you know
that I am thinking of them, that I'm not just
moved on past them and everything's fine and there's no
worry in the world and it's just normal, you know.
But I am sorry for creating you know, that environment

(08:10):
and these feelings that we have around whether it's physical
triggers or just emotional triggers or whatever it is. Because
I know it's hard to you know, to be married
to me. I know it's hard to be married to
someone who's caused you hurt in pain, no matter what
the situation, for anybody. And so I just think my

(08:34):
suggestion suggestion two couples or people in coupleships listening to
this is just lean into your partner about things that
you might have done to harm them or harm your relationship,
even if it's not as obviously not as deep as
our wounds, but something service level, where a fight you
had recently, and just even if you feel like it's

(08:57):
been resolved, go back and just own your part again
or something, you know, just because that just anytime I
do that to you, you just you affirm me how
much that means to you that because then you don't
feel I I can't speak for you, but usually what
you tell me is that then then you don't feel
alone and like the feelings that you feel and stuff.

(09:19):
So no, I just felt myself like getting emotional when
I was driving home of just fortunately it wasn't much shame.
It's just pain. It's just like damn, Like it sucks
that I cause this, you know, it sucks that we
have to feel. It sucks that we have to deal
with some of the issues that we deal with. But
you know, so I just want to come home and

(09:39):
tell you that and just and gratitude that I'm thankful
that we're doing what we're doing. Thank you for sharing.
I appreciate and it does help, you know, because the times,
contrary to what maybe some people may say, like I
don't bring it up every day how I feel it,
you know, and sometimes I don't talk about it for weeks,
and I think when knowing that, like you also recognize

(10:02):
a pain, it's nice to know that, like I'm not
alone in certain pains some days, So that's a nice
So I really appreciate that. For sure. We never talked
about it, but I'm curious if you would share on here.
Did you ever figure out your man period? So not

(10:23):
to make fun of it, but like the other day, um,
Michael was like, I think I'm on my man period.
So I have a name for it, which my therapist called, uh,
it's my my comma. My comma. You guys had periods

(10:45):
interesting because it was just so like, you know, because
I could tell it you were in a little you
were just quieter that day, and you know, you were
kind of tear eyed when you were telling me, like,
I don't know, but I just feel like I'm on
my period. But I like it. You're you're on your comma.
So what is a comma? It's the meal version of

(11:05):
the period. Just sometimes you just have those days that
just emotionally hits you. You don't know why. So there
wasn't anything under it, not that you can put your
finger on. It was you know, uh, issues that are
there always. But I think it was just just one

(11:28):
of those days. I just as sad as it sounds,
it was just one of those days. It was hard
being me describe because of my pain and shame, guilt
of things that I've done, of things I haven't done,

(11:51):
of just where it's just like most of yours. You
wore that, Yeah, like I wore it like instead of
just powering through like I usually do. War but not
affected me or being a fleeting thought or whatever. You
know me, I'm naturally an optimistic, positive person. So it
was just I don't know, it was just one of

(12:12):
those days I just couldn't you tried it out and
and you you let it hang on you. Yeah. So
I mean everyone has you can have those days and
where it's just I'm sure to to some people it
makes a lot of sense, how I say, it's just
hard being me, Like you know, to some people it

(12:32):
might not make sense, like if they say that to themselves,
but some can sit there and be like, yeah, it
is hard being me today for whatever reason, because of stresses,
because of responsibilities, because of depression, anxiety, depression anxiety, clinical issues, addiction,
whatever it is. It's just something they were all allowed

(12:53):
to have that. We're all allowed to have that day.
Now we don't want to stay in it because then
there's more issues on that. How long is your man comma?
It was just that day. I'm good now, you know.
Do you guys have a comma? Do you guys have
comma days? I've never thought of it that way. I

(13:15):
definitely have days where my emotions are closer to the
surface than usual. So I'm I'm guessing that's what he's
talking about. I don't know if it's monthly, I don't
know if it's for a few days at a time.
But I definitely have days like that, And then I've
had days during this pandemic where I feel, you know,
most days you get up, you do your thing, but
some days I'm just like, oh man, how long is
this going to go on? Where you just have a

(13:35):
harder time than other days. And maybe that's part of
it too. And there are days when, um, like Mike
was saying, that shame or guilt for anything you've done
wrong in the past is just on your mind for
whatever reason all day long, and you're having trouble shaking it,
and then the next morning you move on from it.
But there were days like that, So maybe that's the
comma Eastern do you have a period or a comma? Well,

(14:00):
Euston is a man, you know, so maybe more heavier
than others. I mean, yeah, like I have a heavy flow,
I'd say, uh, yeah, I don't know, it's it's infrequent,
but it does happen. I'm pretty um, I think I'm
pretty even killed most of the time. But yeah, there's

(14:22):
a lot of times where I, uh, you know, I
my mind goes to weird places and uh, and I
think it affects how I like how I treat other people.
That day and and that's you know, that's something i'd
try to try to change because that's not cool for
my spouse. But um, you know, I yeah, that that
definitely happens. I like that term comma. That's fine or

(14:44):
a semi colon is something I'd get. I'd say little
bit of both. Yeah, yeah, you know it's um it
is interesting too, And I feel like almost the timing
of your comma was, you know, the night before we
had like a conspiracy theory party where I wouldn't say party,
but like just to get together with friends and we
you know, just kind of had talked about things, and

(15:07):
it started to just and mean, I know, some of
the conversations we were having about antivactors, verse vaccinations and
you know, and just other things that like you've always
thought and then someone's being like, well here's this and
having that debate and then you just kind of like
go to bed and you're like, has everything I've learned
the last thirty six years of my life a lie?
You know? And just trying to differentiate between that, I

(15:28):
figured I make up that that could cause like the
heaviness as well. The next day, well for sure, especially
when we touched on topics like you know, the Epstein
Island and Pizza Gate and the Wayfair stuff, and it's
just I mean, you saw me getting animated where it's
just And again, all of this was just We're just
having a healthy conversation with like three other couples and

(15:52):
it was just we're all close friends, so no one's
taken it personal or debating. We're just sharing our our beliefs,
are thoughts or whatever. It was just it was interesting.
But when it comes to the kids stuff, it just
I it just eats. It just gets me, you know
what I mean, It just it absolutely destroys me internally
and it's like I'm naive where I want to believe

(16:16):
that there's humanity is better than that overall, but the
fact that there's so many people involved with all that,
it just it just makes me. It made me sick. Well,
moving on, um, let's get on to some other topics.
But let's first take a break. Hey, Mark, do rive

(16:46):
an emails? We do have emails. One actually mentions me
by name, which is very nice. Definitely do that one,
all right. It's from anonymous. She says I'm pregnant and
do soon with my second child. This pregnancy has been
a struggle with so much, with so much anxiety surrounding
the pandemic. We haven't seen our own parents, who all
live pretty close by. I thought about the time I

(17:07):
was ready to give birth, it we'd be in better shape,
but it seems to have gotten worse for us here
in Florida. One of my concerns is having or possibly
not having visitors when we come home from the hospital.
I don't know how much my parents and siblings would
take it if we decided to keep my family away
for a certain amount of time. Do I give a
specific time frame, play it by ear as to when
we feel comfortable allow them to come over with masks
on it, just allow them to come over and hope

(17:28):
for the best. I don't know if my reaction to
want some time is a bit over the top or
more of a normal reaction during a pandemic. I'd love
to get some input, and I'm curious to know what
Mark has to say. Did she say this is their
second child, yes, and they live away from them, yeah,
but not terribly far away from them. I mean, Mark,

(17:51):
I would like to know what you think. I think
there's a way to do this. I think it would
be um. Here's the problem is there's a major spectrum
of how people tackle the pandemic. And it's not just
the people who say it's all a hoax versus the
people who never leave their house. There's everything in between
as well. And if you are farther towards the careful side,

(18:13):
you're going to be made fun of by the people
that are closer towards the other side. No matter where
each of you fall on the spectrum, it seems like
people roll their eyes even if you're wearing a mask.
Everywhere you go, the person with a face shield, you
roll the eyes of them. You know what I'm saying,
Like you judge everyone else on the spectrum. So if
you say to your parents or your husband's parents, you
cannot come over and see the newborn, I'm not comfortable.

(18:34):
They're not going to be happy with that. But I
think there is a safe way to do what I
think if you do it in your yard, if you
do it outside and there are masks, I think it
will be fine. I do think that that's the new
world we live in that we can go to restaurants,
but it has to be outside in masks. My daughters
can go to dance class, but it has to be
outside and in masks. That's the world now, and I
think that I don't think that's dangerous. I think you're

(18:55):
gonna be okay. And yeah, they might not be thrilled
about it, but it's better than not seeing their new
grand child. Honey, I agree. Yeah, I mean it's it's
a spectrum, and the thing is is ultimately comes down
to her and her husband what they feel most comfortable with. Like,

(19:18):
I would never want someone to fault us for being
like that. But at the same time, when it's your
family and you're not in a different state and you
still see them from time to time, they're still in
your circle of people you see on a regular basis. Now,
you don't want the brand new friends you just meant
to come over and see him. But if it's the
people you see on a more regular basis, I don't

(19:39):
see the issue. I agree. All Right, I got something
good from our book that I want to read. Yeah,
what you got? Where's where's it at? Um? So I'm
going to only read some of it because I want
you guys to finish it. Um. I'll stop and then
I'll show you to pick up page thirty three. Okay,

(20:05):
so again I'm only giving, and there's something so juicy
that we have not told anybody. After this part, I'm
going to read you the beforehand to get you hooked,
and then you're gonna go on Amazon or jan and
Mike dot com and get the book. Here we go.
I remember when I heard your side of the street
in therapy, I quickly replied, oh, my side of the

(20:26):
street is shiny and clean, thank you. Next, it's easy
as hell to point the finger at the other person,
and I did it for years with Mike. I would
always think, well, he's the one who poked up, so
why do I need to look on my side of
the street when I've done nothing wrong. It's a very
narrow minded response, I know. And even though yes, I
technically did nothing wrong to cause his affairs, how I

(20:49):
handled our repair is now part of my side of
the street. You can play the blame game and point
fingers for only so long. But this realization was slightly
annoying for me at first and took some time. But
I knew the marriage wouldn't work out if I didn't
put the pointer finger away and start cleaning my side
of the street. So how did I do that, What
does that look like look like in action? And how
did it make me feel? How did it help us well?

(21:12):
For me? This happened while I was doing Dancing with
the Stars, which began only a few weeks after we separated.
Mike was in rehab and I was in an all
out war with my emotions. Most days, I would push
Mike out of my brain and try to live in
the world as if he didn't exist. Other days I
was too weak to push and I missed him, and
I hoped he would be in the audience watching me perform,

(21:33):
rooting for me. Regardless of how I was feeling. Whenever
he would call me from rehab, I would lash out
at him, tell him I didn't want anything to do
with him. I would hang up and realize that I
had no idea what direction my life was headed in
or what I should do. The only times that gave
me calm was when I looked at our baby girl.
I knew that, regardless of the outcome, I wanted the

(21:53):
best for her. One night, we've never shared this. One night,
immediately after I'd finished doing the jive on the show,
my manager Catherine sat me down and said, Mike filed
for divorce. I thought he did what. I called him, screaming,
how could you file for divorce? That's what I'm supposed

(22:15):
to do? How dare you? He replied with Janna, you
won't let me see our daughter. It's true. When he
had called asking to see her, as it had already
been two months since their last visit, I was so
desperate to keep close to me. The one thing that
brought me calm that, even though I knew it was
wrong and would hurt him, I said he couldn't see
her until I finished filming, which could take a month.

(22:37):
Suddenly thinking about raising our daughter separately and the beginning
of separate parenting, separate holiday, separate everything, a voice in
my head finally spoke up in defense of this man
in our marriage and Jolie. I knew what I wanted, No,
I said to him, I want to try, and then
from there I go into other things that I had
to own that I did wrong and that I needed

(23:00):
to own, and stuff that I still don't want to
sail in the mic yet. So I really encourage you
all to buy the book, because that's the only way
you're gonna hear it. Michael would you like to do
the rebuttal of that part, Yeah, the mic part. There
were so many days, absolutely, There's so many days during

(23:20):
the first year of our reconciliation after discovery of my affairs,
when we thought what the is going on? Honestly, most
days were like that. We said so many hurtful things
during those dog days, especially me. Unfortunately, when I began
to get defensive and go into a place of shame,
my initial reaction is to get mean and nasty when
verbally fighting back, which is absolutely which is absolutely the

(23:43):
last thing Janna deserves after what I have already put
it through. Needless to say, so many days were filled
with pain, hurt, sadness, and despair. There isn't an adjective
in the English dictionary that describes how hard it was
or how unattainable that so called light at the end
of tunnel seemed. But even throughout those days of misery,
we were both still there. We both continued to show up,

(24:05):
despite the fact that all it would take to end
that pain was a signature at the bottom of divorce papers.
We just kept showing up. But the more therapy we
went to, the more tools we learned and began practicing
with one another. And the more we saw that light
that once seemed unattainable, That's how we knew it was
all worth it. It It was never an Aha moment. It
was about getting down and dirty with one another, trudging

(24:27):
through the darkest time of our lives. Nowhere was dirtier
during those days than my side of the street. And
like every act of serious, deep cleaning, sometimes it could
be daunting. In my case, some days it was daunting
to the point of paralysis. But the promise of keeping
my side of the street clean was ultimately the reason
I was able to stay. Now, some of you may

(24:48):
scoff at my saying that I chose to stay. Some
of you are probably thinking he was the one who
sucked up. Why would he consider not staying? I get it,
and Janet even said that to me a time or two.
But it takes work on the part of both people
to make a relationship worthwhile. Boom, go get your book mark.

(25:09):
Are you so excited for all the juicy details that
are to come? That's pretty good, pretty good stuff cover.
Oh God, I'll never forget when that happened. I was
so that called when you called me. Oh, I was
furious and you're like, well, it's just like just you know,

(25:29):
we can always go I was like, you don't understand
if I if I now like and put it in
papers too, I was like, it's done. There's no going back.
Like my lawyer wouldn't have it like we would we
would just go for it. And I was like, I
want to see my daughter. It's been seventy days. Well
you could have called me and told me. I tried,

(25:50):
you kept hanging up, and I'm just saying next time.
You could have been like if you don't like you,
I would have liked the threat. No threat, No, you
wouldn't even take my call. So I didn't. I couldn't
even get the threat across wolf and then go ahead
when she called when she said I want to try,

(26:12):
what was your reaction like? Was it relief? Was it
excitement or was it She didn't say that she said
it to herself, so what you know what I said
to him, I was like, you have to reverse it.
If you do not reverse this divorce right now, like
you do not understand, I'm going to have to, like
because my lawyer was like, you need to file now,
and I was like and and my friend Catherine was

(26:35):
just like, but isn't this what you want? And I'm like,
I don't know what I want, Like, I don't know.
I just know that I don't want to make such
a like rash decision. And if he files and I
have to like counterfile, and I'm like, I just need
him to just stop and like reverse this, and he's like, well,
I can't reverse it, and I'm like, then then we're done.
And he's like, well, what do you want. I'm like,
I just need more time, like and that was like, honestly,
what I need in that moment was like I like,

(26:57):
just reverse it and then we can sit and talk
because I haven't I hadn't seen him face to face.
I'm like, it just was like, if you do this now,
we are done. So if you go forward with this
tomorrow morning, there will be a reverse, like there will
be me counters divorcing you, and we are done. And
he's like, well, we can take it off the table.
I was like, you don't understand, there's you can't take

(27:19):
that off when I'm when I file, it's done right,
but legally you can take it off the table. But
like then you know, it's not like it's like oh,
you're filed, it's your papers, and like you don't get it,
like you don't get the like the weight of all
that stuff, like it's just for me. It's just like
it's it's it's emotionally like like don't do that, Like

(27:39):
let's just tell I wasn't doing it as a game.
I was just forcing your hand. I was just like,
all right, if you're not gonna see my daughter, I
need to do what I need to do to protect
myself and see her well. And I would like the
call before Danna even goes well, if you really wanted
to see her, you're just shown up and she was
I was like really, I was like, you won't even

(28:01):
take my phone call or text message and you just
want me to surprise. I get it. I just would
have liked h more of a like, hey, I'm going
to file if you don't let me say, and I'd
be like okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. No,
you wouldn't have You would have been like you said
you were going to file, because that's not what I wanted.
You wouldn't believe me, you wouldn't believe me, and you
would have been like f you you don't get to file,

(28:22):
I'll file. Well, I probably would have, like I know you,
It's probably where I was at then. Yeah, sure, you
know what, I don't think I'm I don't know if
I shared this on here or not, I don't know.
So were you reading that stuff when you're talking about

(28:43):
dancering stars? Reminded me of this sad, sad memory of that.
And it was when it was When was it that
you guys danced at the grove? Were you already voted off?
I voted off? That was that? That was the finale
and I was singing right, that was it? That hurts
my heart too, So at that point I was in

(29:06):
l a with them. It was a finale. I've gone
you had me at one show, the show that we've
royally messed up on the semifinals where I fell glood fella,
Glove was glad, was nervous. Man was back now, Um

(29:26):
it's uh, it was it was a finale and you know,
you had some of your girlfriends there and like your
former music manager and stuff like that, and they were
all with you, and I was just kinda that whole time.
I was just uncomfortable being there anyway around you and
around your people and stuff. So they all were like

(29:48):
inside the gates at the grove, like with you. I
was not. So I'm at the grove trying to find
a space to watch I'm at that that Italian restaurant
there on the corner right by the where the fountain
is where they put the stage, and I'm like trying
to find a place to get close and see her.

(30:08):
And so I go upstairs to this like second flour
of balcony that kind of overlooks it. I was like, oh,
this Perke spot, just kind of standing here in this corner.
And this guy that's I don't work in security or
something comes over to me and he's like, hey, this
is like a private party up here. You can't be
up here. And I was like, I'm sorry to intrude.
I was like, my wife is gonna sing. She's right

(30:29):
down there, like she's gonna sing, like you know, I
just want to get the spot to watch her. And
he was like, no, no, like you can't be up here.
I was like, I get it, but my wife. He's like,
if that was your wife, you would be down there,
and I was just like and so I just walked away.
I went downstairs, and I just left the grove and
I was just I just walked until I met you,

(30:53):
till you guys were done, and I met you guys
back at your trailer. I was able to get back
around there, but just having that guy look at me
like I was just so small and just insignificant, as
like a person, not like stature, but just as a person,
just being like, dude, you're being joke, Like if that
was your wife, you would be down there, and I
was just like I felt like I was an install.

(31:16):
I'm sorry. I mean, it's you know, it's just one
of those memories. Well, yeah, but life. Look at us now,
We've got a book. It's coming out together. We're fighting
the good fight. Mark, will you? Will you read us

(31:50):
an email? Sure? This is also anonymous. My boyfriend and
I've been together for just over a year. When we
started dating, we both knew I was moving to Australia
to do my master's degree. In February of one, we
moved in together after six months of dating, because it
was important to me to know that how that would
go before we decided if he was going to come
with me. This entire time, he has been unwavering saying

(32:12):
he is coming with me to Australia. However, it is
now time for us to start getting things paid for
and sorted out, and he has informed me that he
has not started saving. I laid out his expenses for
him months ago, but didn't want to go so far
as policing his finances for him. He makes twice as
much as me. I've been laid off because of COVID.
I'm going to have tuition on top of other expenses,

(32:33):
and I'm ready. So why isn't he? Is it wrong
that I'm frustrated and questioning our future because of this?
I don't think so at all. I think that's something
you have to do. I think it's a conversation that
you know, we have. I think I think a lot
of marriages have conversations about money and budgets and every

(32:55):
respect and yeah, I think every marriage. And I think
that's healthy to have that. And I don't think that's
I think that's um a conversation that you know needs
to have so that you guys are on the same
page because you don't want that to that's a that's
a shows kind of his value of the dollar and
everything too. Yeah, it's It's almost like it was a

(33:17):
genuine test in this, like in this situation of how
he would be with finances, not forever, but in the
foreseeable future. Because if she just said, out of responsibility, hey,
this is what we need do. She even laid it
out for him, Hey, if you really serious about this,
like this is what we need to do to make
it happen, and he just dum't paying attention to it,

(33:39):
I would be like, oh, well, I think too. It's like,
don't just like be like I can't do this, I'm done,
but just have more of a conversation around it too,
to be like, hey, this kind of bothered me and
frustrated me, and I'm a little concerned. Yeah, oh for sure.
And I think that's you know, and then kind of
see his reaction to Mark, what do you think. I
think you's scared. I think this is a major thing

(33:59):
in ove to Australia with a person after dating for
a year, and I think that on the surface he's gone,
how about it, But deep down inside he's really scared
and not saving money is his way of getting out
of it and then maybe even be subconscious for him.
He may not realize it, but not doing anything for
it is going to get him out of this and
not have to blame himself somehow on a deeper level,

(34:22):
I don't know, but this is his escape route. I
would plan on going without him because I don't think
this is going to happen, because he's very afraid of
doing this. It might just be typical male commitment fear
because if you go to Australia together, that doesn't end.
It either ends with marriage or it ends horribly. So
I think that scares him. I mean, that's a really

(34:42):
good point. But I also as the girl, I'm like, no, no, no, no,
She's like, her heart's gon be broken when she hears
this the wise words of uncle Mark. I have to
agree with him, but I still think there should be
a conversation up like do not want to come? Like
is this something where like you're you're dragging your feet
because maybe subconsciously you don't to come, which maybe she
can bring that into the conversation because when you said that,

(35:04):
I was like, oh yeah. But then I'm like, as
a girl listening, I'm like, no, no, no no, no, no
no no, he's prolonging the heartbreak. Yeah he is. It
reminds me when I moved to l A and my
wife and I had a very sad um parting, but
we never said we're breaking up. We never said we're
standing together. I left and we kept in touch, and
then she said, Hey, I'm moving out there, And it

(35:26):
scared the hell out of me because I knew two choices.
We get married or it's a horrible ending. She's nineteen
and moving across the country to be with me, and
her parents were all weird about it, like it was
not gonna end well, or we were gonna get married,
And when you're that early in a relationship, that's a
really scary two options. Yeah. Wow, she ended up coming
and it's worked out just great because we've been together

(35:48):
twenty three years. Y'all are good. But I feel like
that puts a lot of pressure on you too, Like
if someone moved out for me, like I mean, I
remember talking to my high school sweetheart about it when
I lived in California, I almost felt like a responsibility
that like I would have to then stay with him
because I'm the reason that he would have moved out

(36:08):
to California, So then I would have like maybe stayed
with him longer because I felt bad that I relocated
him and that that sucks too for that person. Well, Jack,
just like when I moved to Nashville for you, you,
Janna was trying to pimp me out to every like
boyfriend or husband, to all of her girlfriends, like anytime, Oh,

(36:30):
get each other's numbers? Do you like golf? Oh? He
likes off? Do you like this? Do you think I'm
just like honey, like it'll happen like platonically, Like you
can't just be like take my number, take take his number,
take his number. No, I want to see you. You know,
it's awkward when guys like get each other's number. I
don't know why. I just kind of is sometimes and
Jane's like sitting there watching us to make sure we
get each other's number, and it's like, Okay, I just

(36:50):
wanted you to have friends. I know, but that's what
I'm saying. To your point, you took on the responsibility.
It's like my happy, my happiness. You made your responsibility
because some one moved, moved somewhere for you, So I
could see how that is a lot of pressure on
the person that's, you know, the inspiration for someone to move.
How are you with finances? Mark? I'm good and I'm

(37:14):
the one that does all that stuff. You are, So
do you get upset with your spouse if like she overspends,
Like do you guys have a limit? Like what's your No,
she's very good about that too. She I mean, she's
she's the one that buys everything because she you know,
with the kids and everything else. So I make it.
She spends it, which is kind of the stereotype, but
it's kind of how it worked out for us. But
it's I trust. I trust that she's not just gonna

(37:36):
She's not wasteful. She's not She's never been one to
blow five bucks on a bag, you know that sort
of thing. She's very very frugal without sort of things.
I actually have to encourage her, like it's okay, let's
spend some money. It's fine. We haven't done anything, we
haven't gone in a vacation forever that we have a
savings account. Let's spend some of it. So it's actually
a pretty good balance. What are you looking at me?

(37:59):
Let's talk about it? Uh, do we Julie Mark and
we can talk about the golf situation. I'd actually love
to bring that up with Mark, so please, I would
love to bring this up. So I would love to
bring this up. Ok Um, So am going to be
the judge here, Yes you are, so, judge mark I.

(38:21):
Michael has always wanted to be in a golf club. Okay.
He wanted to be in a golf club. Yeah, was
that the word membership? Golf membership right, okay, like like
a country country club, and so you know, he always
wanted to join one. And he comes home one day

(38:45):
and he had joined a membership, and he makes all
these you know, he says all these things like while
it was not as much as this place, and it's
this much, you know, for the initiation, and then it's
three every month, and I'm like, well, you know, I
wasn't super hurt thrilled with the fact that he just

(39:05):
like went out and did it and we didn't have
like a you know, he had said he had mentioned it,
but I'm like, okay, but like there wasn't like a
real like this is what it is, and it's like
you just went and you did it without having a conversation.
So that's always kind of like I filled out the
paperwork than came home to have a conversation. But okay,
so okay, anyways, So he's been at the club, how

(39:28):
the membership, how many how how long a year? Okay,
so we've been spending so he but the initiation, which
you always have to do and every month, is three
d dollars. Ask me how many times he has golfed
in the last year, Mark, jan how many times has
Michael golf in the last year? Well, Mark, I would

(39:51):
have to say at that club five times. I've got
five times in the past six weeks. You did us
started doing that? Okay, so let's I'm not counting the
last Sorry, during the beginning of pandemic. I really didn't
want to. I'm not That's just I've got the floor, Judge.

(40:13):
Settle him down, settle him down, set down. Okay, I'm
still have the floor. I'm sorry, thank you. So, so
what it was was when he signed last July, so
you're telling the pandemic. To my knowledge, Judge was not
there July, August, September, October, November, I understanding, gets a
little chilly December January. So I'll give him that those

(40:34):
two months off and then you know, February March whatever.
So there is nine months, nine months of just five
times playing golf. Now, to me, I would think that
having a membership, like I'm not just going to pay
my workout person and have her on the feet and
then not use it. To me, that's wasting money. To me,

(40:56):
that feels like you don't care, that you're just rowing
it away, that it's that it's just and it's like
so we had a real big talk come out of pandemic.
I said, listen, this is in April. I was like,
I'm not trying to be the wife like I'm gonna
take this away. I'm like, but there are free there
are courses that you don't have to be a member
at that are you know, an hour around trip, so

(41:21):
thirty minutes there, thirty minutes back, and you know, he's
He's like, well it's gonna take longer. And I'm like
at that point, I don't care. You're already gone four hours.
What's five? And I said, but no, please note that,
like I love that, Like it's what is another hour?
When you leave it eight and you come back at twelve,
Like one o'clock is not any different. The kids are
not being or at school, so I'm like, it's really frustrating.

(41:43):
When I was like I need you and I'm I like,
I literally said, I need you to golf at least
twice a month to make it worth it, because if not,
it's like it just feels disrespectful. So then he started
to start going. And this is where I have another
thing with it. So he's starting to go more often.
He's going now that the two times at least a

(42:05):
month to his club, okay, but now he's now paying
for somebody else. He's paying for one of our neighbors
to be a guest. And I'm like, Michael, so now
you're paying on top of it, and now I'm just
now on that, Like I'm like, is wait a minute,
Like you you can golf there for essentially free, Like

(42:29):
you pay three dollars, so you're paying, You're you're not
for free, but like you're paying to go twice a month,
and that's usually how much a golf is. But now
you're now on that two times you go. He's like, well,
that's so I can play their course, and I'm like,
play your course. That's why you got Like if you
want to play their course, then go to their course
once a month and then go to the Grand Ole
Opry course. And it's like judge I'm going to wrap

(42:51):
it up and here's my finishing statement. I just feel
like he's not I feel like there's a different way
of going around it where he doesn't need to have
this membership because he's not using it, because of he's
now paying this guest that comes with him. He's now
you know, it's about to be winter months again, and

(43:12):
I'm sick of though, I'm going to use it. And
then you say, and then you don't, I'm done. Can
I hear your response before he goes? Or would you
like to wait? Oh? I think the court should recognize
Michael Calson before the court makes it. Thank you. So
here's the deal, Judge Mark, judge, your honor handsome, let's

(43:34):
hear the excuses. But it's for me. Okay. You get
a little torn, right because the stereotype is husband wants
to go play golf, the wife complains about it taking
four hours. Okay, have I ever when tell me when?
Excuse me? S S sorry, Okay, so you have said

(43:59):
that for and so again it's I am torn from
a from a moral standpoint where I'm like, man, I
want to go golf because selfish, I just want to
go off. I love it. At the same time, I
feel bad if it's happens to fall on a day
where the only day I can or that's available is
a day that we don't have help for the kids

(44:20):
are in school and you have the kids, and then
you know, I'm afraid that you're gonna be like, really
like today you gotta go golf and give me for it,
And that's my fear. Secondly, the whole pain for a
guest is it's a trade off. It's he we have
a good time together. He belongs to one club, I

(44:41):
belong to another. He even asked me, he was like, hey,
how can I pay you. I was like, honestly, I
would like to play your course from time to time too,
So let's just trade off. Like when I treat you
to mind, you treat me to do yours. It is
what it is. And so he's like, all right, that's fine.
And recently we've been going alternating every other week for

(45:01):
the last six weeks just because it's we've been wide open.
But that'll stop here soon because we're getting really busy.
And when it comes down to it, a golf membership
or something like that is one of those expensive for me.
The way in my mind, I'm like, Okay, I'm accepting
the fact that we're paying three a month. It's something
I want to have available for there for me to

(45:23):
do when I want to do, when I want to
use it. And right now I'm hooked and I want
to play all the time, and I could go every
day if I could. I'm going Friday. Just so you know,
she's not listening. I'm now, let's talk. So it's it's
just one of those things where I'm like, I don't
three dollars instead of I could go play twice and

(45:47):
already cover that if I went public courses here. That's
not true. How much just Gaylord Gaylord is a hundred
depending on the day. Okay, So if you usually you
usually go twice a month, I've been going more in
twice a month. Average is like average during a pandemic. Michael,
We're not talking about the pandemic, okay, alright, alright, So

(46:10):
it sounds to me like this is a situation that's
kind of working itself out in the sense that he
is going more often, and that's your big right, because
in the first year that you're talking about, by my math,
he spent seven per per round which is not exactly
cost efficient, but it sounds like it's starting to work
itself up because Jenny, I think you're fine with him golfing.
You don't mind him leaving for the day. You know,

(46:31):
it's good for him. It's a stress release, right, you
don't mind that. I don't mind that at all. But
he's only usually going at most three times a month,
and so if the gay Lord operates only, you know,
and that's that's at most Mark, that's at most so
and just thinking about all the winter months here because
it's not California. It's not California, it's that would be

(46:51):
three So it's like, why does he need the membership
when those there's four to five months that he doesn't
even use it at all? Because no, that's not Trueger
here's still mild. It's fairly mild, and they don't cover
the greens because of the grass. So I could play
good it's decent weather, and I will. I mean, this
is hard for me because I don't play golf. It

(47:11):
seems like a big waste of time to me, and
it seems like a big waste of money to me.
And I also don't know your finances because because it
would be difficult for me to propose three a month
or something. Uh, somebody who's obscenely wealthy would have known
problem with it. I don't know where you guys fall
in the middle there somewhere, So I also don't know
what kind of discretionary income we're talking about, what other
sacrifices are being made to cover the three a month

(47:32):
for my I don't like wasting money, and this is
when you don't use it, it's wasteful and I don't
like it. I don't care if it's five dollars. I
don't care if it's wasted money. I do not like
it work. I agree with that. I go to the
gym out of guilt because I'm paying for the membership,
and when you don't use it to what you say it,
it becomes it's very frustrating. I want you to use

(47:53):
it for the amount that it is and not have
to pay on top of it other people, because when
it's defeating the point of a member shop. I rule
with Janna. I'm sorry, Mike. I do think there is
a more cost effective way for you to still spend
the day golfing and having a great time. I think

(48:14):
is that there's a better way to do this than
the locked in cost even in months or pandemics that
you're not going to be using it much. There, I've ruled,
court is adjourned a month is oh, don't be defensive ruled.
But here's a difference. I use it follows right, Okay.

(48:36):
How much is a wine trip? I use it A
thousand dollars? Okay, I drink it and I use it.
If it was just sitting there on the wall, that's
a different story. So if I use it, if I
spend a thousand dollars a month, If I spend a
thousand dollars a months, it's okay. But if I was
judges back, the judges got out that door. Alright, guys,
Well that was that was fun. I can't wait for

(48:57):
next week. Let's let's see what we can bring Judge
Mark next time. I like that idea. This is fun.
Maybe he'll rule you. I'm going to go golfing, okay, alright, bye, guys,