July 11, 2022 • 38 mins
Jana is hanging out with her new BFF Emily Giffin (author of “Something Borrowed”, “Heart of the Matter” and “The One and Only”) and she’s invited her Whine Down listeners to join the party!
Jana spills all with Emily about relationships, achieving goals, and moving on after heartbreak.
Plus, Emily shares the truth about whether or not we’ll get a “Something Blue” movie!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. Okay,
I am so excited for today's podcast because I am
with the amazing Emily Giffin, who is number one New
York Times best selling author. She's written Something Borrowed, Something Blue, Love,
The One You're With, Heart of the Matter, Baby Proof.
I mean, I can keep going on and on. Hi, Catherine, Hi,
(00:25):
have you ever met Emily before? I don't think, so
hio to me. You nice to meet you, Catherine. So um,
why are you? Are you in a closet? I'm in
my closet that's empty that my husband or whatever because
I wasn't there where all this stuff was moved out
and it was too echoly. So Eastern told me to
(00:46):
go to a closet. You know what, that's a really
solid metaphor right there, right you. You in an empty closet.
I love it. It's like cleaned out and ready to go.
And how can I ask you a question? Though? Before
we Emily, we're going to get to all your stuff
to talk of help. When we went into it last night,
(01:07):
girlfriend didn't way. Um, so you and an empty closet
right now? I remember when I got divorced. I think
that was my number one thing, was like I don't
want to walk into the closet and see the empty,
like see his stuff gone like that was like that
to me was going to be like the you're like
more space for my sweaters. But I just I don't know,
(01:30):
like I was just I remember telling Pam and Chris
and I'm like, you guys should They're like white crying,
and I'm like, I don't want to walk in and
see his stuff gone. And so they went and took
they packed all of his clothes and then they then
they moved my stuff and rearranged it. And so I'm curious,
like you sitting in there, like how is that for you?
I mean, it's a little weird. I don't think I'm
as emotional about it, but yeah, that part has been
(01:51):
interesting because you know, me, I was kind of like,
all right, I'm ready to get out of my space.
I'm like ready, like I'm you know, and then I'll
like kind of look around and it just kind of weird.
It's definitely different and odd, but you know, I'm also
kind of excited to take over the shoe part of it.
And so it's fine, it's you know, it's all good. Yeah,
(02:14):
it's fine. It's good. Everything's fine, everything's um yeah, no,
it's and it's okay to still be upset at times. Sure, Yeah, no,
I mean it is definitely it's like a weird feeling
like it's still kind of feels a little bit like
a dream kind of, you know, it just doesn't really
feel real yet. Well, it's you've had him living in
(02:35):
your space for how many years exactly, and then all
of a sudden, this person like moves out, and I
mean it's I remember to me, it's like it's like
an oh death, but they're still alive. Yeah, it's like
that weird like they're everything is gone, and it's like
you're missing this. There are a ghost basically in the house. Yeah.
I still think I was telling a friend this yesterday,
(02:57):
you know, because it's the summer. We've been traveling, you know,
I mean, k and then we're just in l a,
Like it just doesn't it nothing's normal yet. So I
think once things are like normal, like normal schedules, normal everything,
then I think it'll kind of hit me. Right now,
I kind of feel just like you know, relating tomorrow,
you know, just like travel and all that has just
made it feel it doesn't feel normal yet, so I think, yeah,
(03:20):
you know, I mean, I can relate to that. It's
always like when I come home, which is why Hi,
I'm in Atlanta, so like, this is one of the
reasons why I'm in Atlanta right now is because and
I texted Katherine and Christen because I'm like, hey, guys,
I'm going to Atlanta because as much as I love
my space and time home for that the week that
I'm not with the kids, I'm kind of just like
for the summer schedule, it's like I just feel very
(03:42):
out of place in my house and it's like just
like how you're alone right now to in your house,
like it's amazing, but but then I feel like at
times kind of like all right, like I want to
get out of here because it makes me sad or
I mean, may before you're enjoying it because your kids
are like you in the entire house to yourself. But
I know what you mean. Though it's a little weird.
It's a little disorienting for sure, but they're just gone
(04:03):
for a month and they'll come back and mess everything
up again. You only get a month, I know, But
I love you, and I just wanted to check in
on you in the in the closet. Um, So do
you know how I met Emily? Didn't you like stalker? Yeah,
so Emily Giffen is it is? But it's the truth. Yeah,
(04:25):
you can't stalk someone when you have mutual Like, no,
I didn't know where it was not true. So she
my closest cousin who lives in well, she's in DC now,
when she lived in Kentucky at the time. She's like,
how in the world do you know Jane Crant had
such street cred there for we got so much love.
(04:47):
By the way, because we had a wine night last night,
Everyone's like, oh my god, how are you guys? Friends?
Like that's so cool. And I'm like, well, I stopped
her older wiser mentor whatever. I schooled you. You did, Actually,
she she did. She I opened up more to her
last night than I ever do I ever do. It
was weird, but I feel like you're on this transformational Yeah,
(05:08):
a little bit. You're a little bit. Just you know,
it's my my sons are going to college in the
fall and so, and they're twins. There's two at once,
and we're downsizing a bit, and just you know, I'm
still my career is the same and the marriage is
the same. But I just feel like there's a lot
of like, you know, I've got on. Well, I was
researching this this place that's like a great place to like, Okay,
(05:32):
I just wasn't yeah, um, but I was looking at
the middle program, the non trauma program, and it was like,
do you feel this way? Do you feel this way?
And it was really interesting and I texted her right
away this morning. Some of them, yeah, some of them.
But I think I'm always in the camp that, you know,
whatever is happening in your life is whether you're you know,
(05:53):
getting a divorce and sitting in the closet or your
sons are going to call it like, there's always change happening.
And if there isn't change happening, it's going to happen anyway,
you know. And so and you have to sort of
embrace these transitional moments and and just you know, be
the best version of yourself at all times. And I
(06:13):
think that's what you've become. You've really good at that,
Like you've really like gained a lot of what you
had some nuggets of wisdom. I'm supposed to be the
older wiser one buss is because I came back from
on site. So I told her. I was like, man,
because things things change when you go. When you put
yourself in these transformational places like you see, you start
to see change. Yeah, And I was telling why I think,
(06:38):
yeah right. I was telling my assistant Kate about it.
Who's you know? She she's um been with, We've been
working together forever. We're very close. But I was sort
of giving her the rundown and Janny says, yes, she
should go too, and I'm like, wait, you don't know
a single thing about her. But I thought that was
so interesting that I replayed it later because I thought
to myself, probably every human, like everyone could benefit. I mean,
(06:59):
not every one has the luxury of being able to
find the time or the the money or whatever to go.
But like, I think it was interesting that your reaction
is she should go too. I think everybody should do
work and self discovery. And I think that's, um, it's
only going to help what man. I was Oh, man,
someone said, um, you end up bleeding over if you don't.
(07:21):
If you don't, God, this is this is I'm like
that person that just butchers every single I am the
worst and then but Katherine whatever, you were the same.
I can't do sayings whatever those are called, but you
just I butcher them terribly. You butcher lyrics too all
the time. I remember any time I put my mic out, y'all,
it's because I don't remember the lyrics. Everybody that that's hilarious.
(07:47):
Why is like the like really you know good but
like in WAYI wan or whatever, but like, no, no,
I'll be like and they all nail it. Nope, most
of the time they don't know the song either. Um
but no, though, the saying was like, if you don't
fix your wound, you're gonna end up bleeding all over
(08:07):
the next person. Oh M. Like so if you don't like,
you can keep putting a bandaid, bandaid, band aid, but like,
that wound's gonna keep getting reopen. It's gonna keep getting reopened,
and the next relationship that you're in, if you haven't
fixed that wound, you will end up bleeding all over
the person that did not cut you. So interesting. You
(08:28):
bring that up a conversation that Amy and I had
the last session, where it is basically we talked about
on site, we talked about and She's like, you know,
you can take this time and you can just veg
out and do all and do all that for a
little while. You know, like you can do this, do that.
You know. She's like, but if you don't take steps
(08:48):
and you don't have intentions and you don't change things,
it's going to go over into the next relationship. And
I'm like, oh no, that's why I'm still here. You know.
It's just so it's so interesting because that's so true,
Like I could easily skirt through this and just like
not even think about what I need to change in myself,
what I need to do differently what I and then
just walk into the next relationship the same person. But
(09:12):
that was I just think of that, Yeah, and it'll
be the same. You will be the same cast, and
the man will be or woman whoever will be not
saying but you know what I'm saying, like to the
person listening to the the man will be the same cast,
just different face, like the same character, different face. And
that's you know, something that I quickly realized after my relationships,
(09:36):
after my divorce. I was like, oh wow, this is
now something that like I have to fix my stuff,
you know. So that because I also think too, Like
healthy attracts healthy, right, So I'm a big believer in
that as well, Like you attract what you are. Sure, yeah,
I believe in that. Or for sure, don't be the
Devil's advocate. Be the devil advocate. We want devil's advocate
(09:59):
on the show. I still believe in that that the
kit kat bar you can you really have. But I
think that what's the saying I'm whatcher sayings too. It's
so funny that you say that, but like you're the
average of the five people you spend the most time with,
Like have you heard that one? The average like cannot
necessarily average, but like you're you're going to be like
if you spend time with if three of the five
(10:21):
people that you spend time with their toxic, that's gonna
rub off on you. If you spend time with all people,
which would be really you know, kind of like you're
not seeking people out just because they have like a
higher cue or well adjusted. I mean, we have relationships
with all kinds of people. But if you, for some reason,
had five your five closest relationships were all with like brilliant,
(10:42):
completely well adjusted people, then you think about how much
that would elevate your I mean, you don't audition your
people for to be perfect. But yeah, um, but yeah,
I think it's interesting in the same way. We are
all such different people, right, Yeah, Well, when I think
if you spend time with five very different types, I mean,
(11:04):
that reflects on who you are too, if you find
if if it's five toxic people, that's bad. You know,
if it's five needy people, that's I don't know. But
then I always remind my daughter of that because she's
you know, she's fifteen, and you know, there's the peer group.
Is everything right? And I just keep I just keep
reminding her that, like is this do you want to
(11:24):
be like her? Do you want? Is that what you
want to be like? Because if it's not, then you
might want to consider dropping her out of the top five.
Oh like my Space days, get out of my top
I think you only have five? You had eight, We
had five. I mean, i'd know why I'm getting five bridesmaids,
(11:45):
so you know what I mean? Like, I think I
could tailor it. I think you could make it less.
The fewer than eight. I keep. I keep my group.
Even though I say I have a bunch of best friends,
I still keep my inner queendown and like it's five girls,
queenom is five. There you go. So that's why I
seen it's like top five since I always like go
um okay, Emily. So I met Emily because I, okay,
(12:10):
this is really embarrassing. And I don't know if I've
ever told you this. I've never read a book ever
until Something Borrowed. You mean that wasn't a close assignment ever?
Did you just to cliff notes? For sure, I would
read the first page, the back page, the middle, and
then do my assignment. I've never I never. That doesn't
(12:30):
it terrible? I never read a book. I hated reading.
I literally loathed reading. But I think a lot of
people feel that way until they find the right book.
That's not uncommon, I think too to you know, for
and I've I've been told that before book signing. Yeah,
I think my books are pretty easy to read, accessible
and you know, character driven. So I you know, and
(12:52):
I think maybe someone like you told someone else who
doesn't read a lot that same thing, and they pick
it up and they read it. But it's about the
right book, finding the connection to the right book. Something
Borrowed is your first book, right, it was. So that
was then the first book that I read, and I
don't remember how, I'm sure I think it was, you
know what it was. It was I saw the movie
(13:12):
was about to come out, and so I was like,
oh cool, I've never this looks like a really cool movie.
I want to read the book before it comes out.
That's what you're supposed to do. So but no, it's
not because I actually got mad about the casting. Oh well, yeah,
I mean I thought the casting was great, but she
doesn't look like I didn't Darcy in the book, and
I thought Rachel was off. She thought she was. Yeah,
(13:36):
she was Jennifer good one and Kate she's great. Love Jennifer.
But I was like, I just imagined Rachel as like
I would have casted like a Rachel McAdams, or like
she got off with the part. First. She did not
say that I love it. I always want to know
because she actually was the very first person we went
out to and she she turned it down. Yeah, feel
(14:00):
bad because like I'm I was thrilled with that's a
good one. Did. But yeah, it's really funny that you
said that, because I think we felt that it's nothing
about Jenny's acting ability. Because I thought she was fabulous.
But the picture that my I pictured, Rachel McAdams like,
that's closer to what I pictured, and I think so
did the producers, which is why we we went out
(14:22):
to her first. But Jenny was one of our top
choices and she was she was great. But yeah, but
I'm glad you read it because we wouldn't be sitting here.
I know. Well, so then I read it because my
thing is like I don't like reading books when it's
not in first person, so like when someone says he
said she said the entire time, or I'm like, I'm
so confused that, like you've already lost me because you
(14:43):
want well, I think it's probably no, I don't think
that you did, you would not get lost. And that's
what I think. What it is is you you you
want the immediacy of the experience. I'm like, Sue said,
what like, I want to I want to be reading
it and going like I want to feel like I
am I'm reading your story like so connected to like
if I'm just reading what the author is saying, what
(15:05):
the person is saying, I'm kind of like, and then
I do, Katherine, I get confused. I'm like wait, who
is Are you dyslexic? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. I mean a
lot of people that aren't sort of under the age
of who are dyslexic don't know they were because if
they're not, they're so vigilant about it now at testing
and so forth. But I bet you are a lot
(15:26):
of really brilliant people. Obviously let me, Steve Jobs was dyslexic.
I mean, like a lot of brilliant people are dyslexic.
They're just more visual unless you know, like I don't
do like like I wouldn't say, like, God, I know
that's a dog. Well that's but are you a slow reader?
Are you a slow wrider? Are you a slow reader?
(15:52):
Obviously I'm just what he's like, God, those who you know?
But that's trying to be funny. That only happens sometimes.
But my daughter is dyslexic. And then I was like,
you know, I'm not and it runs in families and
(16:13):
we had her tested and they said she's dyslexic. Probably
one of you is dyslexic. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not,
you know, like I'm like, actually, one of the things
I'm good at is reading and writing. And I looked
at my husband, and I was like, oh, it's you,
and I realized that he was. He's the slowest reader.
You know, when you're like reading a magazine or a
newspaper together on an airplane, like and you're sharing the
(16:36):
thing and you get to the end and you turn
the page and the other person's like wait, wait wait,
and I'd be like, okay, thinking like a few seconds
and like all this time goes by before he'll but
he's he's dyslexic. I sometimes actually read too fast, and
(17:01):
I don't remember what I read, so I have to
reread and then reread and reread. I like I reread
the same thing over and over and over again. Is
that that's that's a d D two Okay, great, well yeah,
but they really go hand in hand. Just have a
d D. And I'm just well, your creative and in
your interpersonal skills are off the chain. I mean there's
(17:22):
lots of different forms of and tell your emotional intelligence
is your e Q is crazy high? Oh I got
like a four team on my A C T, so
not incredibly smart. But that's e Q. It's reading people's
e Q. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that great. Yeah,
different things, yeah, Okay, yeah, I Q not not so
much there. Um, Katherine, you read a lot though, right,
(17:44):
I mean I wouldn't say a lot. I feel like
you get that big thick books sell those scary people have,
like like thrillers, Like I'm kind of like a guy
with my books. Yeah, you please read one of her books.
And she's like, I like mystery. I've asked you. Okay. So,
out of all my books, the Lies that Bind, which
is the one that I wrote last, it was the
one that came out before this most recent, is the
(18:07):
most thrillery and plot twisty. So I would recommend for
you to read the Lines of Wine and they may
have that into a limited series which we're gonna talk
about in a second. And so I think that's the
one for you if you like, if you like that,
you know, kind of quick plot. I have to have
that because I really am not really a reader for
(18:28):
that be like like what's going to happen next? And
I just won't do it. Read. So back to me
sliding into So I finished something borrowed and I'm like,
holy crap, I've never read a book ever. I'm feeling
so smart, so like like just happy and I need
to know what's happening, like I need the next book,
(18:49):
And so I go on Instagram and I just slide
right into your d M s and I'm like, I'm
obsessed with you. Oh my god, your books amazing. Just Hi,
I'm Janet Kramer. You probably have no idea who I am,
but like I just like embellishing this, just like I mean,
just like stroking her ego and telling how much I
love her and saying like if like please please let
(19:09):
me know like when your next book comes out. I
mean I think I signed up even for like email alerts,
like that's how obsessed I was. And then she DM
me back and we've been friends ever since. Yes, we
have UM and I've read every single one of her books.
I'm halfway through Meant to Be, which is out right now,
and it's so good. Yeah, we were going to do
this podcast later, but then you were in town, and
so we're doing it now, and she's read enough of
(19:31):
it so that I mean, we're not We wouldn't discuss
the plot anyway, because no, no, we're not going to
discuss the plot. But there are some questions that I
ask people about what is and they wanted to know
what is your favorite book, if you could rank your
top three books. It was one of them that came through. Yeah,
that's hard, and I was like, oh, that's a good
question because I've got mine. I mean, it's so much
(19:54):
about time and place when you read something like I
love the Broke Back Mountain. It's a novella that the
movie was based on, but I think I read it
at a time in my life. That and she's a
brilliant writer. Um that would be one member of the wedding.
I mean, um no, Carson Mco. The books that you wrote.
(20:15):
I was like, I was like you right, Brokeback Mountains.
You're like, did you? I was like, wow, okay, okay,
I'm sorry we're talking. I thought we were. You know,
your your books. But that's I mean, it's good to know. Okay. Yeah.
Backing up, Um, I think Something Blue the sequel or
something Borrowed. So that's my sentimental favorite. It's one of
the top three. And then I would say Meant to Be,
(20:38):
which a lot of people are saying is most like
Something Barred and Something Blue, which is the one that
just came out. And then I love the One and Only,
but it's the one that I would say people like
a lot of people like the least. The people who
love it love it, but the people who because it's
about a girl who falls in love with her best
friend's father, and a lot of people thought it was creepy.
(20:59):
I know, and I love you for that character. I
love so I always say, old man, I think he
would kill that. Oh my god, I love the sports.
She loves sports, and she falls in love with this,
like really, Friend was like yeah, Friend was like so
upset about and I just remember being like, oh but
I loved that book. I thank you read that. Thank you.
(21:22):
But that's what I mean. You loved it. But a
lot of people like it's my lowest star review on Amazon.
But the people who love it love it. And I think,
you know, a lot of people say it's fascinating to
me because I wrote a book something Borrowed where the
girl the protagonist, falls in love with her best friend's
fiance and has sex with him the whole summer leading
(21:44):
up to her best friend getting married, like that is
the most unlikable thing that you can do, and women
read it and love it and everyone excuses her. They're like, well,
very aggressive, and yeah, they all excuse her, and everyone
loves the book. Then I write this One and Only,
which is about a girl who falls in love with
(22:04):
their best friend's father. The mother's debt, she's passed away. Like,
there's no infidelity in this book. Granted there's an age
difference and it would be a little weird if, like,
you know, but people are like, oh my gosh, I
can't believe she did that. I'm like, she actually didn't
do anything wrong, she didn't know. And then they throw
out the word incest, which is like super like super definitional,
like incest is when you have sex with someone you're
(22:26):
related to, Like, there's no incest in the book. But
it's just it's interesting. But I love that. I love
my books can make people sort of feel extreme ways,
like that some people love them and some people hate them.
And you know, certain books like and I will love
another one. And it's like, I don't ever want to
write a book that everybody just likes. I want to
always write books that some people love and some people
(22:49):
like it bothers them. It's a conversation. Yeah, it's it's
like you want to sort of evoke emotion. That's so
interesting Now that I'm thinking about it, because really, Darcy
was the one that people didn't like. It's like, no, no,
she was cheating on her best friends, Like oh my gosh,
Like I didn't even like I loved Rachel. I wanted
Rachel to have but then because because and that's sort
(23:12):
of like that's something that I try to do in
every book, Like we are so messy and complicated, like
human beings, like we you know, our relationships are messy
and complicated. We end up hurting the people we love
the most. We mess things up. We have to be forgiven,
we have to forgive others. And I just think that's
(23:32):
what I try to capture when I write of all
those like complexities and who we are as as people,
but especially as women, and try to make my readers
relate to the to the you know, characters and root
for them in spite of what they're doing because they're
often doing messed up things. Well another yeah, because I
mean what we all do? We all do? Yeah, I
mean the one, um, gosh, everyone there's always something where
(23:56):
it's um the lawyers, Oh no, they know they were
in jury jury duty. Oh that was the green book
that was love, the one You're with Love the one
you're with. That was about the one who got away
away she done her husband? She did, Yeah, she did too.
There was some fidelity that one, and I remember being like,
but I was a mandator. Yeah, well she didn't totally
(24:18):
cross the line. And then that book was written in
two thousand and eight, so if you didn't read it,
we're going to spoil the plot. But that's sort of
the one that's like, everyone has someone that they can't
get out of their system, like someone from their past
that they cook like, that they look up on Facebook,
that they stalk, that they like to have that person.
I mean, married for how many years? Twenty years? But yeah,
(24:40):
I'd say I did for a lot. Well, I am
in this weird category. I'm not trying to evade the
question because I will answer it. But I still talk
to all my like almost all my ex boyfriends, Like
I still am good friends with him. Like I just
got a message from my college boyfriend today said, my
parents saw you in Good Morning America. I don't think
(25:00):
I wrote him back either. Um, but I love him
my door room he stayed at the house. Yeah yeah, Um,
and my husband loves when he comes to the house.
He's a writer. He writes for TV, and so it's
kind of he would probably be my one who got away,
but because we're friends, like he's my most significant X
in other words, but we're still friends. Is there a
(25:22):
story based on him? No, there actually isn't. I mean,
we are so much friends that it almost feels like
we're cousins. Like it's really which I think is why
you can be really friends. But there was someone in
New York that that gave me that feeling of like
I needed to look him up and like I need
to what he was doing. But recently, like he's totally
out of my system, like I don't care anymore. Well,
(25:45):
I mean I didn't care even then, but you still, right,
you're still curious even if you it's not that you
want to be with them and you pine for them,
but you're just curious, like you're sort of wonder. Yeah,
you always kind of look up right cat, like you're
just kind of like, oh, I wonder what they're doing. Yeah,
because you want to be with them, and sometimes affirmatively
(26:06):
because you certainly don't want to be with them, right,
you know, sometimes that's right makes you feel better about
your decisions. Yeah, you want to feel, you know, an
affirmation that you know about that. But there's a lot
of material to mine with women in our relationships, for sure.
I mean I had like three ideas from my next
(26:27):
book when you were here last night, Oh tell us more, Well, no,
because we'd be revealing was it was it? Was it
based on my life or yeah, there was like a
couple of things you said. Remember, I'm like, this could
be a character. Yeah, yeah, based all your books on
somebody you know? Or do you just kind of come
up or it's scenarios, So it's more like inspirations for
(26:51):
like an idea, you know. Baby Proof was my third
book about a woman who didn't want to have a
baby in her husband did that was based on it
was supposed to be the other way around, And then
all the tabloids were saying that Jennifer didn't want to
have a baby, which we found out wasn't necessarily the truth,
but that was what they were saying. And I'm like, oh,
let me flip this and make the woman not want
to have the baby. So that was like a tabloid inspiration,
(27:13):
which is the only time that's happened. But yeah, you
it's more of a scenario like, oh my gosh, what
would happen if you fell in love with your best
friend's Beyonce or you were attracted to your um best
friend's dad or you know, like so it'll be like
but it's not. You know, it's not not that I
would do a character who's like Jana and looks like
Janet is Janet, but it's she was describing something about
(27:36):
her life last night, and I thought, oh, this would
be a good scenario a set up for a book,
not like a set up as in a blind date setup,
but like as a as a starting point set up.
(27:59):
I know. I'm just like, she's good. Your books just
make me at the end because I'm just they just
make me happy. Um, because usually it ends, there's one
that like it didn't end. I was like, no, you're
pissed at me. I think wrapped and yes, I like
him wrapped in a bow. Right, Yeah, that's like you
(28:21):
don't always get that, but you don't always get the bow,
but you usually get like a hopeful And isn't that
sort of you know again the metaphor of the empty closet, like,
it's not it's not the best you've ever felt in
your life? Probably but it's also like you're really hope.
It's like you're hopeful, like it's like there's a lot
of potential here. And that's how I feel like, Janna,
(28:43):
You've you've managed to find that place through difficult times.
I think you feel a sense of hope and excitement
about the future. So that's what I want from my characters. No,
I love and I love that you love them. For
the most part, I know I love them. And Um,
someone just said, which I think we just is there
(29:05):
any book character that Janna you'd want me to play?
But we just said that I think you would kill.
I don't know if you've read this one, but The
Heart of the Matter, I've read every single you would
kill and I have told I could you know, I
can talk the producer right now and perv it um
that I think you would. You would kill either role
(29:27):
in um Heart of the Matter, but especially the Valerie role.
She's the single mother whose son is Blake burned. Um, yeah,
she would. You would. You'd be so good at that.
But you've got that, You've got that confidence and vulnerability. Yeah,
you're welcome. Um what here? Lets how do you find? Okay,
you already that one Um, new Emily Giffen Reader, which
(29:48):
book should I start with? Meant to be most recent?
Meant to be most recent? And the reason that I
say that is because it's set the farthest back in time.
It's set in the mid nineties in New York and
the Hampton's about the most eligible bachelor in the world,
people's sexiest man alive. Um, and he falls in love
with a girl sort of you know, from with a
troubled background, and it's a love story. It's a it's
(30:11):
a summer read. You can escape to the not only
into this relationship in this world, but literally into the past,
back to the nineties. I think it's the it's the
one to start with. Will there ever be a Something
Blue movie? There was like a million questions about that
Something Blue. Um, they're okay, So here's the dilemma. So
Something Blue is the book that is right after Something Borrowed. So, UM,
(30:38):
I'm just gonna out him right now because I already
did it at a signing. Do you see not out him?
But Colin won't want to No, No, Colin would love
to do John Krasinski, who's Ethan who would then be
the lead. And Something Blue? So Kate Hudson's So I
don't know where Kate stands, but I feel like we
could convince Kate. But I don't feel like John's wanting
(30:58):
to do that. Where he is in his career, he's
directing more and producing more. So I think we should
do a reboot of the whole series and do a
limited series. You get all the back story. I think
we should do a limited series like a three season
of Something Bartered and Something Blue with all new characters. Yes,
that's what I think. And I would like to play Rachel,
(31:20):
and we'd pick you over Rachel McAdams. I mean, you
shouldn't see if you get Rachel um but I wow,
that's and I feel like you need to do that
because you need to then reboot. Yeah, something you have
to You have to bring something borrowed back right to
do Something Blue. Sure, but you need Something Blue. It
(31:41):
needs to show all that backstory of the friendship. And
I'll tell you this, everyone's had a friendship that's complicated
like that. Don't you think like a friendship where you
like love each other and hit each other. Have you
ever had that cat you love each other and hay,
like you love someone but you also can't and her
and you then you and you want to like it's
(32:03):
me cat h No, definitely not. Well, that happens. For sure.
That happens, I think typically when we're younger, but can
happen at all ages. I swear. I go over to
my mom's community retirement home and there's like drama with people,
like they didn't invite her to someone to dinner, and
(32:24):
you know, I think, I don't think we ever completely
grow out of some of that drama. That makes me
think of like just these industries in general. You know
how it's all kind of like you know, like actors
and singers and everything. It's like they're friends, but are
they really friends. They kind of love each other, but
they kind of ate each other. That's what makes me
think of that. Well, I really like that idea, And
let me know how I can help because that would
(32:46):
be really cool. Well you're helping right now and talking
about it. The buzz. We needs to it needs to
be out there. We need to do We need to
do a limited series, something Borrowed, something Blue, all new characters.
That would be so amazing. Um. Okay, there's what advice
would you give to an aspiring aspiring writer. Um, okay,
(33:07):
one thing, I wouldn't call yourself an aspiring writer. I
would call yourself a writer. Lose the aspiring because if
you're writing, you're a writer. Whether or not you're published
doesn't change what it is you do. And so I
think that would be my starting point. But also just right, right,
just right all the time, and don't worry about, you know,
getting published, like right what you love and then eventually
(33:29):
you'll find success if that's what you want. What about
when you're in a writer's block? What do you do? Well?
What do you do when you don't want to work
out and go to the gym? I don't go so well,
it's like and then I don't go the next day,
and I don't go the next but eventually you go, right,
I mean, writer's block is really just and it happens
(33:51):
to me all the time, but it's really just like
it's too hard. You don't want to do it, you
don't feel like doing it, you can't you're not in
the headspace. You just have to make yourself do it.
It's like when you don't want to work out, you
often you don't and I'm right there with you, but
just put your shoes on and go out the door
and at least go for a walk. Like that's how
you should approach writing, just at least just right. You know,
(34:14):
write down anything. You can always fix bad words, You
can always fix a bad scene, but you can't fix
no scene at all a blank paper. So you know what,
that's a really good metaphor too, Like you can fix
you can fix these things, but you can't fix this thing. Yeah,
you can't fix nothing. Yeah, and sometimes nothing feels easier.
(34:37):
I'm trying to like finde I love a good I
love a good quote brine, I'm a she loves it.
No that is I'm going to do a little video. Okay,
Lies That Bind? What is that going to be on?
Let me so it's a limited series, So what is
that going to be on? Um? The Lies That Bind?
(34:58):
We're developed develop uping it right now. So I read
the pilot, which is awesome. What is it going to be?
And um, we don't know. We we haven't brought it
out to streamership, so we have it to our an actress.
So I'll tell you after I'm gonna I'm already getting
in trouble like three times over right now. So but
it's a five parts, five shows. I read the pilot.
(35:18):
It's amazing. It's a little more um cat you'll like
it even more than you like my book. But that's
not to say you need to write the read the book. Yeah,
but it's it's even more twisty, you know, as because
TV that's what you need, right the hook at the
end of the first series. So, um, to wrap it up,
(35:40):
why should people read Meant to Be? They should read
all of them? But like, what's the thing and meant
to Be? And I know you said it's a love story,
but like, is there is there something that they're going
to really get from it that like, well, it's it's
um it's inspired by John Kennedy Jr. And Caroline Bassett
like icons obviously, like Carolin Massett's i'le icon And you know,
(36:02):
the whole notion of what if, what would have happened
if they hadn't died in that plane crash sort of
inspired me to to write this book. But you know,
I think if you're looking for a beach read that
is a page turner. Like everyone says they read this
in like one sitting, which is sort of a depressing
thing to tell an author, because you're like, I took
two years of my life and you read it. You
(36:23):
didn't even get up to pee, Like, oh my gosh, wait,
but isn't that such a compliment. It is? Here's it's
it is. I love when people say that normally four kids,
I would read your book in two days, Like I mean,
that's how fast? And like now it's obviously taking me
a little longer because like working kids. But like I
almost don't want to read it to be finished it,
(36:45):
to be honest with you, because then then what do
I have. I don't need the book. You'll have to
wait two years. It's exhausting to wait. I need you
to come on. It's an escape. Though, this book is
an escape. I've written some darker ones, like the one
set in Nashville. All we Ever Wanted was dark? My
name wasn't that one? Yeah? Yeah it was. It wasn't
always screamed um, but it's that's darker. If you want
(37:09):
like a darker book that really makes you think I do.
The Cobalt Blue and All we Ever Wanted but meant
to be is an escape And don't we all need
that right now? Yes? Don't we? I think we do Emily.
Where can all of our amazing listeners find you. I
won't give him your address, don't worry. Only I can
stalk her and find out her address. Um, you can
(37:32):
find me on Instagram at Emily Giffen author and I
have a book club if you're looking for one book
a month to read and then discuss. Um, it's at
e G Book Club, which, Um, it's a lot of
fun to just we chat with the author live and
um it's very so yeah, it's fun and um and yeah,
I just joined TikTok. Oh my gosh, that's a whole
(37:54):
new world. I just it's at Emily Emily giff An
author too. But I just joined it because my kids
are all three teenagers is and they're insisted that I
get on. And so I don't know how. I mean,
I don't do it often, But did you do it?
I mean everyone's mom. But I only know what I'm
not like creative enough. You are, figures you are. It's
just complicated, it's very compete. Um. We love you, Emily.
I love you too, Katherine. How you doing over there? Bad? Y'all?
(38:17):
Have fun, enjoy your wine, enjoy your time, ladies. That
was a lot of fun and um, I promise that
I will um not uh stalk you completely and you
can't know we're from I know it's true. I love you,
Um Catherine, love you. Get out of your closet okay.
By guys Susan Okoye. Nice to meet you.
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. Okay,
I am so excited for today's podcast because I am
with the amazing Emily Giffin, who is number one New
York Times best selling author. She's written Something Borrowed, Something Blue, Love,
The One You're With, Heart of the Matter, Baby Proof.
I mean, I can keep going on and on. Hi, Catherine, Hi,
(00:25):
have you ever met Emily before? I don't think, so
hio to me. You nice to meet you, Catherine. So um,
why are you? Are you in a closet? I'm in
my closet that's empty that my husband or whatever because
I wasn't there where all this stuff was moved out
and it was too echoly. So Eastern told me to
(00:46):
go to a closet. You know what, that's a really
solid metaphor right there, right you. You in an empty closet.
I love it. It's like cleaned out and ready to go.
And how can I ask you a question? Though? Before
we Emily, we're going to get to all your stuff
to talk of help. When we went into it last night,
(01:07):
girlfriend didn't way. Um, so you and an empty closet
right now? I remember when I got divorced. I think
that was my number one thing, was like I don't
want to walk into the closet and see the empty,
like see his stuff gone like that was like that
to me was going to be like the you're like
more space for my sweaters. But I just I don't know,
(01:30):
like I was just I remember telling Pam and Chris
and I'm like, you guys should They're like white crying,
and I'm like, I don't want to walk in and
see his stuff gone. And so they went and took
they packed all of his clothes and then they then
they moved my stuff and rearranged it. And so I'm curious,
like you sitting in there, like how is that for you?
I mean, it's a little weird. I don't think I'm
as emotional about it, but yeah, that part has been
(01:51):
interesting because you know, me, I was kind of like,
all right, I'm ready to get out of my space.
I'm like ready, like I'm you know, and then I'll
like kind of look around and it just kind of weird.
It's definitely different and odd, but you know, I'm also
kind of excited to take over the shoe part of it.
And so it's fine, it's you know, it's all good. Yeah,
(02:14):
it's fine. It's good. Everything's fine, everything's um yeah, no,
it's and it's okay to still be upset at times. Sure, Yeah, no,
I mean it is definitely it's like a weird feeling
like it's still kind of feels a little bit like
a dream kind of, you know, it just doesn't really
feel real yet. Well, it's you've had him living in
(02:35):
your space for how many years exactly, and then all
of a sudden, this person like moves out, and I
mean it's I remember to me, it's like it's like
an oh death, but they're still alive. Yeah, it's like
that weird like they're everything is gone, and it's like
you're missing this. There are a ghost basically in the house. Yeah.
I still think I was telling a friend this yesterday,
(02:57):
you know, because it's the summer. We've been traveling, you know,
I mean, k and then we're just in l a,
Like it just doesn't it nothing's normal yet. So I
think once things are like normal, like normal schedules, normal everything,
then I think it'll kind of hit me. Right now,
I kind of feel just like you know, relating tomorrow,
you know, just like travel and all that has just
made it feel it doesn't feel normal yet, so I think, yeah,
(03:20):
you know, I mean, I can relate to that. It's
always like when I come home, which is why Hi,
I'm in Atlanta, so like, this is one of the
reasons why I'm in Atlanta right now is because and
I texted Katherine and Christen because I'm like, hey, guys,
I'm going to Atlanta because as much as I love
my space and time home for that the week that
I'm not with the kids, I'm kind of just like
for the summer schedule, it's like I just feel very
(03:42):
out of place in my house and it's like just
like how you're alone right now to in your house,
like it's amazing, but but then I feel like at
times kind of like all right, like I want to
get out of here because it makes me sad or
I mean, may before you're enjoying it because your kids
are like you in the entire house to yourself. But
I know what you mean. Though it's a little weird.
It's a little disorienting for sure, but they're just gone
(04:03):
for a month and they'll come back and mess everything
up again. You only get a month, I know, But
I love you, and I just wanted to check in
on you in the in the closet. Um, So do
you know how I met Emily? Didn't you like stalker? Yeah,
so Emily Giffen is it is? But it's the truth. Yeah,
(04:25):
you can't stalk someone when you have mutual Like, no,
I didn't know where it was not true. So she
my closest cousin who lives in well, she's in DC now,
when she lived in Kentucky at the time. She's like,
how in the world do you know Jane Crant had
such street cred there for we got so much love.
(04:47):
By the way, because we had a wine night last night,
Everyone's like, oh my god, how are you guys? Friends?
Like that's so cool. And I'm like, well, I stopped
her older wiser mentor whatever. I schooled you. You did, Actually,
she she did. She I opened up more to her
last night than I ever do I ever do. It
was weird, but I feel like you're on this transformational Yeah,
(05:08):
a little bit. You're a little bit. Just you know,
it's my my sons are going to college in the
fall and so, and they're twins. There's two at once,
and we're downsizing a bit, and just you know, I'm
still my career is the same and the marriage is
the same. But I just feel like there's a lot
of like, you know, I've got on. Well, I was
researching this this place that's like a great place to like, Okay,
(05:32):
I just wasn't yeah, um, but I was looking at
the middle program, the non trauma program, and it was like,
do you feel this way? Do you feel this way?
And it was really interesting and I texted her right
away this morning. Some of them, yeah, some of them.
But I think I'm always in the camp that, you know,
whatever is happening in your life is whether you're you know,
(05:53):
getting a divorce and sitting in the closet or your
sons are going to call it like, there's always change happening.
And if there isn't change happening, it's going to happen anyway,
you know. And so and you have to sort of
embrace these transitional moments and and just you know, be
the best version of yourself at all times. And I
(06:13):
think that's what you've become. You've really good at that,
Like you've really like gained a lot of what you
had some nuggets of wisdom. I'm supposed to be the
older wiser one buss is because I came back from
on site. So I told her. I was like, man,
because things things change when you go. When you put
yourself in these transformational places like you see, you start
to see change. Yeah, And I was telling why I think,
(06:38):
yeah right. I was telling my assistant Kate about it.
Who's you know? She she's um been with, We've been
working together forever. We're very close. But I was sort
of giving her the rundown and Janny says, yes, she
should go too, and I'm like, wait, you don't know
a single thing about her. But I thought that was
so interesting that I replayed it later because I thought
to myself, probably every human, like everyone could benefit. I mean,
(06:59):
not every one has the luxury of being able to
find the time or the the money or whatever to go.
But like, I think it was interesting that your reaction
is she should go too. I think everybody should do
work and self discovery. And I think that's, um, it's
only going to help what man. I was Oh, man,
someone said, um, you end up bleeding over if you don't.
(07:21):
If you don't, God, this is this is I'm like
that person that just butchers every single I am the
worst and then but Katherine whatever, you were the same.
I can't do sayings whatever those are called, but you
just I butcher them terribly. You butcher lyrics too all
the time. I remember any time I put my mic out, y'all,
it's because I don't remember the lyrics. Everybody that that's hilarious.
(07:47):
Why is like the like really you know good but
like in WAYI wan or whatever, but like, no, no,
I'll be like and they all nail it. Nope, most
of the time they don't know the song either. Um
but no, though, the saying was like, if you don't
fix your wound, you're gonna end up bleeding all over
(08:07):
the next person. Oh M. Like so if you don't like,
you can keep putting a bandaid, bandaid, band aid, but like,
that wound's gonna keep getting reopen. It's gonna keep getting reopened,
and the next relationship that you're in, if you haven't
fixed that wound, you will end up bleeding all over
the person that did not cut you. So interesting. You
(08:28):
bring that up a conversation that Amy and I had
the last session, where it is basically we talked about
on site, we talked about and She's like, you know,
you can take this time and you can just veg
out and do all and do all that for a
little while. You know, like you can do this, do that.
You know. She's like, but if you don't take steps
(08:48):
and you don't have intentions and you don't change things,
it's going to go over into the next relationship. And
I'm like, oh no, that's why I'm still here. You know.
It's just so it's so interesting because that's so true,
Like I could easily skirt through this and just like
not even think about what I need to change in myself,
what I need to do differently what I and then
just walk into the next relationship the same person. But
(09:12):
that was I just think of that, Yeah, and it'll
be the same. You will be the same cast, and
the man will be or woman whoever will be not
saying but you know what I'm saying, like to the
person listening to the the man will be the same cast,
just different face, like the same character, different face. And
that's you know, something that I quickly realized after my relationships,
(09:36):
after my divorce. I was like, oh wow, this is
now something that like I have to fix my stuff,
you know. So that because I also think too, Like
healthy attracts healthy, right, So I'm a big believer in
that as well, Like you attract what you are. Sure, yeah,
I believe in that. Or for sure, don't be the
Devil's advocate. Be the devil advocate. We want devil's advocate
(09:59):
on the show. I still believe in that that the
kit kat bar you can you really have. But I
think that what's the saying I'm whatcher sayings too. It's
so funny that you say that, but like you're the
average of the five people you spend the most time with,
Like have you heard that one? The average like cannot
necessarily average, but like you're you're going to be like
if you spend time with if three of the five
(10:21):
people that you spend time with their toxic, that's gonna
rub off on you. If you spend time with all people,
which would be really you know, kind of like you're
not seeking people out just because they have like a
higher cue or well adjusted. I mean, we have relationships
with all kinds of people. But if you, for some reason,
had five your five closest relationships were all with like brilliant,
(10:42):
completely well adjusted people, then you think about how much
that would elevate your I mean, you don't audition your
people for to be perfect. But yeah, um, but yeah,
I think it's interesting in the same way. We are
all such different people, right, Yeah, Well, when I think
if you spend time with five very different types, I mean,
(11:04):
that reflects on who you are too, if you find
if if it's five toxic people, that's bad. You know,
if it's five needy people, that's I don't know. But
then I always remind my daughter of that because she's
you know, she's fifteen, and you know, there's the peer group.
Is everything right? And I just keep I just keep
reminding her that, like is this do you want to
(11:24):
be like her? Do you want? Is that what you
want to be like? Because if it's not, then you
might want to consider dropping her out of the top five.
Oh like my Space days, get out of my top
I think you only have five? You had eight, We
had five. I mean, i'd know why I'm getting five bridesmaids,
(11:45):
so you know what I mean? Like, I think I
could tailor it. I think you could make it less.
The fewer than eight. I keep. I keep my group.
Even though I say I have a bunch of best friends,
I still keep my inner queendown and like it's five girls,
queenom is five. There you go. So that's why I
seen it's like top five since I always like go
um okay, Emily. So I met Emily because I, okay,
(12:10):
this is really embarrassing. And I don't know if I've
ever told you this. I've never read a book ever
until Something Borrowed. You mean that wasn't a close assignment ever?
Did you just to cliff notes? For sure, I would
read the first page, the back page, the middle, and
then do my assignment. I've never I never. That doesn't
(12:30):
it terrible? I never read a book. I hated reading.
I literally loathed reading. But I think a lot of
people feel that way until they find the right book.
That's not uncommon, I think too to you know, for
and I've I've been told that before book signing. Yeah,
I think my books are pretty easy to read, accessible
and you know, character driven. So I you know, and
(12:52):
I think maybe someone like you told someone else who
doesn't read a lot that same thing, and they pick
it up and they read it. But it's about the
right book, finding the connection to the right book. Something
Borrowed is your first book, right, it was. So that
was then the first book that I read, and I
don't remember how, I'm sure I think it was, you
know what it was. It was I saw the movie
(13:12):
was about to come out, and so I was like,
oh cool, I've never this looks like a really cool movie.
I want to read the book before it comes out.
That's what you're supposed to do. So but no, it's
not because I actually got mad about the casting. Oh well, yeah,
I mean I thought the casting was great, but she
doesn't look like I didn't Darcy in the book, and
I thought Rachel was off. She thought she was. Yeah,
(13:36):
she was Jennifer good one and Kate she's great. Love Jennifer.
But I was like, I just imagined Rachel as like
I would have casted like a Rachel McAdams, or like
she got off with the part. First. She did not
say that I love it. I always want to know
because she actually was the very first person we went
out to and she she turned it down. Yeah, feel
(14:00):
bad because like I'm I was thrilled with that's a
good one. Did. But yeah, it's really funny that you
said that, because I think we felt that it's nothing
about Jenny's acting ability. Because I thought she was fabulous.
But the picture that my I pictured, Rachel McAdams like,
that's closer to what I pictured, and I think so
did the producers, which is why we we went out
(14:22):
to her first. But Jenny was one of our top
choices and she was she was great. But yeah, but
I'm glad you read it because we wouldn't be sitting here.
I know. Well, so then I read it because my
thing is like I don't like reading books when it's
not in first person, so like when someone says he
said she said the entire time, or I'm like, I'm
so confused that, like you've already lost me because you
(14:43):
want well, I think it's probably no, I don't think
that you did, you would not get lost. And that's
what I think. What it is is you you you
want the immediacy of the experience. I'm like, Sue said,
what like, I want to I want to be reading
it and going like I want to feel like I
am I'm reading your story like so connected to like
if I'm just reading what the author is saying, what
(15:05):
the person is saying, I'm kind of like, and then
I do, Katherine, I get confused. I'm like wait, who
is Are you dyslexic? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. I mean a
lot of people that aren't sort of under the age
of who are dyslexic don't know they were because if
they're not, they're so vigilant about it now at testing
and so forth. But I bet you are a lot
(15:26):
of really brilliant people. Obviously let me, Steve Jobs was dyslexic.
I mean, like a lot of brilliant people are dyslexic.
They're just more visual unless you know, like I don't
do like like I wouldn't say, like, God, I know
that's a dog. Well that's but are you a slow reader?
Are you a slow wrider? Are you a slow reader?
(15:52):
Obviously I'm just what he's like, God, those who you know?
But that's trying to be funny. That only happens sometimes.
But my daughter is dyslexic. And then I was like,
you know, I'm not and it runs in families and
(16:13):
we had her tested and they said she's dyslexic. Probably
one of you is dyslexic. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not,
you know, like I'm like, actually, one of the things
I'm good at is reading and writing. And I looked
at my husband, and I was like, oh, it's you,
and I realized that he was. He's the slowest reader.
You know, when you're like reading a magazine or a
newspaper together on an airplane, like and you're sharing the
(16:36):
thing and you get to the end and you turn
the page and the other person's like wait, wait wait,
and I'd be like, okay, thinking like a few seconds
and like all this time goes by before he'll but
he's he's dyslexic. I sometimes actually read too fast, and
(17:01):
I don't remember what I read, so I have to
reread and then reread and reread. I like I reread
the same thing over and over and over again. Is
that that's that's a d D two Okay, great, well yeah,
but they really go hand in hand. Just have a
d D. And I'm just well, your creative and in
your interpersonal skills are off the chain. I mean there's
(17:22):
lots of different forms of and tell your emotional intelligence
is your e Q is crazy high? Oh I got
like a four team on my A C T, so
not incredibly smart. But that's e Q. It's reading people's
e Q. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that great. Yeah,
different things, yeah, Okay, yeah, I Q not not so
much there. Um, Katherine, you read a lot though, right,
(17:44):
I mean I wouldn't say a lot. I feel like
you get that big thick books sell those scary people have,
like like thrillers, Like I'm kind of like a guy
with my books. Yeah, you please read one of her books.
And she's like, I like mystery. I've asked you. Okay. So,
out of all my books, the Lies that Bind, which
is the one that I wrote last, it was the
one that came out before this most recent, is the
(18:07):
most thrillery and plot twisty. So I would recommend for
you to read the Lines of Wine and they may
have that into a limited series which we're gonna talk
about in a second. And so I think that's the
one for you if you like, if you like that,
you know, kind of quick plot. I have to have
that because I really am not really a reader for
(18:28):
that be like like what's going to happen next? And
I just won't do it. Read. So back to me
sliding into So I finished something borrowed and I'm like,
holy crap, I've never read a book ever. I'm feeling
so smart, so like like just happy and I need
to know what's happening, like I need the next book,
(18:49):
And so I go on Instagram and I just slide
right into your d M s and I'm like, I'm
obsessed with you. Oh my god, your books amazing. Just Hi,
I'm Janet Kramer. You probably have no idea who I am,
but like I just like embellishing this, just like I mean,
just like stroking her ego and telling how much I
love her and saying like if like please please let
(19:09):
me know like when your next book comes out. I
mean I think I signed up even for like email alerts,
like that's how obsessed I was. And then she DM
me back and we've been friends ever since. Yes, we
have UM and I've read every single one of her books.
I'm halfway through Meant to Be, which is out right now,
and it's so good. Yeah, we were going to do
this podcast later, but then you were in town, and
so we're doing it now, and she's read enough of
(19:31):
it so that I mean, we're not We wouldn't discuss
the plot anyway, because no, no, we're not going to
discuss the plot. But there are some questions that I
ask people about what is and they wanted to know
what is your favorite book, if you could rank your
top three books. It was one of them that came through. Yeah,
that's hard, and I was like, oh, that's a good
question because I've got mine. I mean, it's so much
(19:54):
about time and place when you read something like I
love the Broke Back Mountain. It's a novella that the
movie was based on, but I think I read it
at a time in my life. That and she's a
brilliant writer. Um that would be one member of the wedding.
I mean, um no, Carson Mco. The books that you wrote.
(20:15):
I was like, I was like you right, Brokeback Mountains.
You're like, did you? I was like, wow, okay, okay,
I'm sorry we're talking. I thought we were. You know,
your your books. But that's I mean, it's good to know. Okay. Yeah.
Backing up, Um, I think Something Blue the sequel or
something Borrowed. So that's my sentimental favorite. It's one of
the top three. And then I would say Meant to Be,
(20:38):
which a lot of people are saying is most like
Something Barred and Something Blue, which is the one that
just came out. And then I love the One and Only,
but it's the one that I would say people like
a lot of people like the least. The people who
love it love it, but the people who because it's
about a girl who falls in love with her best
friend's father, and a lot of people thought it was creepy.
(20:59):
I know, and I love you for that character. I
love so I always say, old man, I think he
would kill that. Oh my god, I love the sports.
She loves sports, and she falls in love with this,
like really, Friend was like yeah, Friend was like so
upset about and I just remember being like, oh but
I loved that book. I thank you read that. Thank you.
(21:22):
But that's what I mean. You loved it. But a
lot of people like it's my lowest star review on Amazon.
But the people who love it love it. And I think,
you know, a lot of people say it's fascinating to
me because I wrote a book something Borrowed where the
girl the protagonist, falls in love with her best friend's
fiance and has sex with him the whole summer leading
(21:44):
up to her best friend getting married, like that is
the most unlikable thing that you can do, and women
read it and love it and everyone excuses her. They're like, well,
very aggressive, and yeah, they all excuse her, and everyone
loves the book. Then I write this One and Only,
which is about a girl who falls in love with
(22:04):
their best friend's father. The mother's debt, she's passed away. Like,
there's no infidelity in this book. Granted there's an age
difference and it would be a little weird if, like,
you know, but people are like, oh my gosh, I
can't believe she did that. I'm like, she actually didn't
do anything wrong, she didn't know. And then they throw
out the word incest, which is like super like super definitional,
like incest is when you have sex with someone you're
(22:26):
related to, Like, there's no incest in the book. But
it's just it's interesting. But I love that. I love
my books can make people sort of feel extreme ways,
like that some people love them and some people hate them.
And you know, certain books like and I will love
another one. And it's like, I don't ever want to
write a book that everybody just likes. I want to
always write books that some people love and some people
(22:49):
like it bothers them. It's a conversation. Yeah, it's it's
like you want to sort of evoke emotion. That's so
interesting Now that I'm thinking about it, because really, Darcy
was the one that people didn't like. It's like, no, no,
she was cheating on her best friends, Like oh my gosh,
Like I didn't even like I loved Rachel. I wanted
Rachel to have but then because because and that's sort
(23:12):
of like that's something that I try to do in
every book, Like we are so messy and complicated, like
human beings, like we you know, our relationships are messy
and complicated. We end up hurting the people we love
the most. We mess things up. We have to be forgiven,
we have to forgive others. And I just think that's
(23:32):
what I try to capture when I write of all
those like complexities and who we are as as people,
but especially as women, and try to make my readers
relate to the to the you know, characters and root
for them in spite of what they're doing because they're
often doing messed up things. Well another yeah, because I
mean what we all do? We all do? Yeah, I
mean the one, um, gosh, everyone there's always something where
(23:56):
it's um the lawyers, Oh no, they know they were
in jury jury duty. Oh that was the green book
that was love, the one You're with Love the one
you're with. That was about the one who got away
away she done her husband? She did, Yeah, she did too.
There was some fidelity that one, and I remember being like,
but I was a mandator. Yeah, well she didn't totally
(24:18):
cross the line. And then that book was written in
two thousand and eight, so if you didn't read it,
we're going to spoil the plot. But that's sort of
the one that's like, everyone has someone that they can't
get out of their system, like someone from their past
that they cook like, that they look up on Facebook,
that they stalk, that they like to have that person.
I mean, married for how many years? Twenty years? But yeah,
(24:40):
I'd say I did for a lot. Well, I am
in this weird category. I'm not trying to evade the
question because I will answer it. But I still talk
to all my like almost all my ex boyfriends, Like
I still am good friends with him. Like I just
got a message from my college boyfriend today said, my
parents saw you in Good Morning America. I don't think
(25:00):
I wrote him back either. Um, but I love him
my door room he stayed at the house. Yeah yeah, Um,
and my husband loves when he comes to the house.
He's a writer. He writes for TV, and so it's
kind of he would probably be my one who got away,
but because we're friends, like he's my most significant X
in other words, but we're still friends. Is there a
(25:22):
story based on him? No, there actually isn't. I mean,
we are so much friends that it almost feels like
we're cousins. Like it's really which I think is why
you can be really friends. But there was someone in
New York that that gave me that feeling of like
I needed to look him up and like I need
to what he was doing. But recently, like he's totally
out of my system, like I don't care anymore. Well,
(25:45):
I mean I didn't care even then, but you still, right,
you're still curious even if you it's not that you
want to be with them and you pine for them,
but you're just curious, like you're sort of wonder. Yeah,
you always kind of look up right cat, like you're
just kind of like, oh, I wonder what they're doing. Yeah,
because you want to be with them, and sometimes affirmatively
(26:06):
because you certainly don't want to be with them, right,
you know, sometimes that's right makes you feel better about
your decisions. Yeah, you want to feel, you know, an
affirmation that you know about that. But there's a lot
of material to mine with women in our relationships, for sure.
I mean I had like three ideas from my next
(26:27):
book when you were here last night, Oh tell us more, Well, no,
because we'd be revealing was it was it? Was it
based on my life or yeah, there was like a
couple of things you said. Remember, I'm like, this could
be a character. Yeah, yeah, based all your books on
somebody you know? Or do you just kind of come
up or it's scenarios, So it's more like inspirations for
(26:51):
like an idea, you know. Baby Proof was my third
book about a woman who didn't want to have a
baby in her husband did that was based on it
was supposed to be the other way around, And then
all the tabloids were saying that Jennifer didn't want to
have a baby, which we found out wasn't necessarily the truth,
but that was what they were saying. And I'm like, oh,
let me flip this and make the woman not want
to have the baby. So that was like a tabloid inspiration,
(27:13):
which is the only time that's happened. But yeah, you
it's more of a scenario like, oh my gosh, what
would happen if you fell in love with your best
friend's Beyonce or you were attracted to your um best
friend's dad or you know, like so it'll be like
but it's not. You know, it's not not that I
would do a character who's like Jana and looks like
Janet is Janet, but it's she was describing something about
(27:36):
her life last night, and I thought, oh, this would
be a good scenario a set up for a book,
not like a set up as in a blind date setup,
but like as a as a starting point set up.
(27:59):
I know. I'm just like, she's good. Your books just
make me at the end because I'm just they just
make me happy. Um, because usually it ends, there's one
that like it didn't end. I was like, no, you're
pissed at me. I think wrapped and yes, I like
him wrapped in a bow. Right, Yeah, that's like you
(28:21):
don't always get that, but you don't always get the bow,
but you usually get like a hopeful And isn't that
sort of you know again the metaphor of the empty closet, like,
it's not it's not the best you've ever felt in
your life? Probably but it's also like you're really hope.
It's like you're hopeful, like it's like there's a lot
of potential here. And that's how I feel like, Janna,
(28:43):
You've you've managed to find that place through difficult times.
I think you feel a sense of hope and excitement
about the future. So that's what I want from my characters. No,
I love and I love that you love them. For
the most part, I know I love them. And Um,
someone just said, which I think we just is there
(29:05):
any book character that Janna you'd want me to play?
But we just said that I think you would kill.
I don't know if you've read this one, but The
Heart of the Matter, I've read every single you would
kill and I have told I could you know, I
can talk the producer right now and perv it um
that I think you would. You would kill either role
(29:27):
in um Heart of the Matter, but especially the Valerie role.
She's the single mother whose son is Blake burned. Um, yeah,
she would. You would. You'd be so good at that.
But you've got that, You've got that confidence and vulnerability. Yeah,
you're welcome. Um what here? Lets how do you find? Okay,
you already that one Um, new Emily Giffen Reader, which
(29:48):
book should I start with? Meant to be most recent?
Meant to be most recent? And the reason that I
say that is because it's set the farthest back in time.
It's set in the mid nineties in New York and
the Hampton's about the most eligible bachelor in the world,
people's sexiest man alive. Um, and he falls in love
with a girl sort of you know, from with a
troubled background, and it's a love story. It's a it's
(30:11):
a summer read. You can escape to the not only
into this relationship in this world, but literally into the past,
back to the nineties. I think it's the it's the
one to start with. Will there ever be a Something
Blue movie? There was like a million questions about that
Something Blue. Um, they're okay, So here's the dilemma. So
Something Blue is the book that is right after Something Borrowed. So, UM,
(30:38):
I'm just gonna out him right now because I already
did it at a signing. Do you see not out him?
But Colin won't want to No, No, Colin would love
to do John Krasinski, who's Ethan who would then be
the lead. And Something Blue? So Kate Hudson's So I
don't know where Kate stands, but I feel like we
could convince Kate. But I don't feel like John's wanting
(30:58):
to do that. Where he is in his career, he's
directing more and producing more. So I think we should
do a reboot of the whole series and do a
limited series. You get all the back story. I think
we should do a limited series like a three season
of Something Bartered and Something Blue with all new characters. Yes,
that's what I think. And I would like to play Rachel,
(31:20):
and we'd pick you over Rachel McAdams. I mean, you
shouldn't see if you get Rachel um but I wow,
that's and I feel like you need to do that
because you need to then reboot. Yeah, something you have
to You have to bring something borrowed back right to
do Something Blue. Sure, but you need Something Blue. It
(31:41):
needs to show all that backstory of the friendship. And
I'll tell you this, everyone's had a friendship that's complicated
like that. Don't you think like a friendship where you
like love each other and hit each other. Have you
ever had that cat you love each other and hay,
like you love someone but you also can't and her
and you then you and you want to like it's
(32:03):
me cat h No, definitely not. Well, that happens. For sure.
That happens, I think typically when we're younger, but can
happen at all ages. I swear. I go over to
my mom's community retirement home and there's like drama with people,
like they didn't invite her to someone to dinner, and
(32:24):
you know, I think, I don't think we ever completely
grow out of some of that drama. That makes me
think of like just these industries in general. You know
how it's all kind of like you know, like actors
and singers and everything. It's like they're friends, but are
they really friends. They kind of love each other, but
they kind of ate each other. That's what makes me
think of that. Well, I really like that idea, And
let me know how I can help because that would
(32:46):
be really cool. Well you're helping right now and talking
about it. The buzz. We needs to it needs to
be out there. We need to do We need to
do a limited series, something Borrowed, something Blue, all new characters.
That would be so amazing. Um. Okay, there's what advice
would you give to an aspiring aspiring writer. Um, okay,
(33:07):
one thing, I wouldn't call yourself an aspiring writer. I
would call yourself a writer. Lose the aspiring because if
you're writing, you're a writer. Whether or not you're published
doesn't change what it is you do. And so I
think that would be my starting point. But also just right, right,
just right all the time, and don't worry about, you know,
getting published, like right what you love and then eventually
(33:29):
you'll find success if that's what you want. What about
when you're in a writer's block? What do you do? Well?
What do you do when you don't want to work
out and go to the gym? I don't go so well,
it's like and then I don't go the next day,
and I don't go the next but eventually you go, right,
I mean, writer's block is really just and it happens
(33:51):
to me all the time, but it's really just like
it's too hard. You don't want to do it, you
don't feel like doing it, you can't you're not in
the headspace. You just have to make yourself do it.
It's like when you don't want to work out, you
often you don't and I'm right there with you, but
just put your shoes on and go out the door
and at least go for a walk. Like that's how
you should approach writing, just at least just right. You know,
(34:14):
write down anything. You can always fix bad words, You
can always fix a bad scene, but you can't fix
no scene at all a blank paper. So you know what,
that's a really good metaphor too, Like you can fix
you can fix these things, but you can't fix this thing. Yeah,
you can't fix nothing. Yeah, and sometimes nothing feels easier.
(34:37):
I'm trying to like finde I love a good I
love a good quote brine, I'm a she loves it.
No that is I'm going to do a little video. Okay,
Lies That Bind? What is that going to be on?
Let me so it's a limited series, So what is
that going to be on? Um? The Lies That Bind?
(34:58):
We're developed develop uping it right now. So I read
the pilot, which is awesome. What is it going to be?
And um, we don't know. We we haven't brought it
out to streamership, so we have it to our an actress.
So I'll tell you after I'm gonna I'm already getting
in trouble like three times over right now. So but
it's a five parts, five shows. I read the pilot.
(35:18):
It's amazing. It's a little more um cat you'll like
it even more than you like my book. But that's
not to say you need to write the read the book. Yeah,
but it's it's even more twisty, you know, as because
TV that's what you need, right the hook at the
end of the first series. So, um, to wrap it up,
(35:40):
why should people read Meant to Be? They should read
all of them? But like, what's the thing and meant
to Be? And I know you said it's a love story,
but like, is there is there something that they're going
to really get from it that like, well, it's it's
um it's inspired by John Kennedy Jr. And Caroline Bassett
like icons obviously, like Carolin Massett's i'le icon And you know,
(36:02):
the whole notion of what if, what would have happened
if they hadn't died in that plane crash sort of
inspired me to to write this book. But you know,
I think if you're looking for a beach read that
is a page turner. Like everyone says they read this
in like one sitting, which is sort of a depressing
thing to tell an author, because you're like, I took
two years of my life and you read it. You
(36:23):
didn't even get up to pee, Like, oh my gosh, wait,
but isn't that such a compliment. It is? Here's it's
it is. I love when people say that normally four kids,
I would read your book in two days, Like I mean,
that's how fast? And like now it's obviously taking me
a little longer because like working kids. But like I
almost don't want to read it to be finished it,
(36:45):
to be honest with you, because then then what do
I have. I don't need the book. You'll have to
wait two years. It's exhausting to wait. I need you
to come on. It's an escape. Though, this book is
an escape. I've written some darker ones, like the one
set in Nashville. All we Ever Wanted was dark? My
name wasn't that one? Yeah? Yeah it was. It wasn't
always screamed um, but it's that's darker. If you want
(37:09):
like a darker book that really makes you think I do.
The Cobalt Blue and All we Ever Wanted but meant
to be is an escape And don't we all need
that right now? Yes? Don't we? I think we do Emily.
Where can all of our amazing listeners find you. I
won't give him your address, don't worry. Only I can
stalk her and find out her address. Um, you can
(37:32):
find me on Instagram at Emily Giffen author and I
have a book club if you're looking for one book
a month to read and then discuss. Um, it's at
e G Book Club, which, Um, it's a lot of
fun to just we chat with the author live and
um it's very so yeah, it's fun and um and yeah,
I just joined TikTok. Oh my gosh, that's a whole
(37:54):
new world. I just it's at Emily Emily giff An
author too. But I just joined it because my kids
are all three teenagers is and they're insisted that I
get on. And so I don't know how. I mean,
I don't do it often, But did you do it?
I mean everyone's mom. But I only know what I'm
not like creative enough. You are, figures you are. It's
just complicated, it's very compete. Um. We love you, Emily.
I love you too, Katherine. How you doing over there? Bad? Y'all?
(38:17):
Have fun, enjoy your wine, enjoy your time, ladies. That
was a lot of fun and um, I promise that
I will um not uh stalk you completely and you
can't know we're from I know it's true. I love you,
Um Catherine, love you. Get out of your closet okay.
By guys Susan Okoye. Nice to meet you.
Host
Jana Kramer
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