January 10, 2022 • 40 mins
We know you all have questions about the mysterious man in Jana’s Tik Tok and she’s ready to tell it all!
Jana read Tristan Thompson’s “apology” to Khloe Kardashian and has some feedback. If you’ve ever been in an unfaithful relationship, this is something you need to hear.
And, Nev from “Catfish” has some crucial advice on how to avoid getting “catfished” when dating online… especially during the pandemic!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast. Okay,
I'm coming in hot to this podcast, okay, I And
I don't know if it's because in Eastern I have
you on too, because I really need like the male's
perspective even though you are like polar opposite from this person,
but I still need to have like your you know,
(00:25):
male nous in this um and I and I get that,
like I'm about to just sound maybe crazy to some
Do you have any idea where I'm going, Like no clue,
I'm trying to follow so bad. I love it, though,
what is it? Okay? You know, we don't really talk
about a lot of like pop culture stuff on this podcast,
(00:47):
like not too much. I mean we talked about you know,
selling sense and all those things. Blah blah blah. We
have some housewives on. I have to talk about the
apology that Tristan gave to Clarie. I'm sorry that was
not an apology and I'm not, like, can I just
read it really fast because I like got like actually triggered,
(01:08):
and I know it's not about me whatever, Like I
get that I can see where that's triggering. Yeah, So
I take full responsibility for my actions now that blah
blah blah blah. I sincerely apologized to everyone I've heard
or disappointed throughout this ordeal, both publicly, uh and privately. Chloe,
this is this is where my my my boil goes
because I'm like, again, I have lived through I haven't
(01:31):
not to my knowledge, he hasn't. I don't have any
little babies. So he has little babies out there. I
don't know, like there's there is always that possibility. Um,
but Chloe, you don't deserve this, That's right. You don't
deserve the heartache and humiliation I have caused you. You
don't deserve the way that I've treated you over the years.
(01:51):
My actions certainly have not lined up with the way
I view you. I have the This is the part
that literally boils my skin ready for it. I have
the utmost respect and love for you. Mm hmm. Clearly
not were This is another thing that this is the
next line is so gaslighting to me, and I don't
(02:13):
know if it's just me regardless of what you may
think mm hmm. Again, I am so incredibly sorry. I
was like, no, that's not an apology, and this is
what my issue is. And maybe I'm maybe I'm close
to this because I feel like I haven't gotten the
apology that I feel like I deserved from my last situation.
(02:36):
But like, first of all, don't say in there I
have the utmost respect for you, regardless of what you
may think. Well, of course he doesn't ever what you don't.
You don't cheat on someone over and over and over
and over again and say that I respect you like
you have an issue. You should have said I have
been I have been so disrespectful and I haven't respected you.
(02:57):
That's owning something. That's apologizing, that's saying. And you can say, fine, yes, okay,
you love her. You You can say I love you,
but I don't know how to love because that's not loving.
So if someone says I have respect for you, I
respect you both, sorry, I'm getting heated because this is
like same like the ship with Mike. But like, how
(03:21):
can men like that that say that say they have
respect for you and then go regardless what you may think,
Because then then that makes us feel crazy. That goes
to us to going, oh, well, maybe they do respect
us because they're saying like the amount of times that
he would say regardless of what you think, Like I
won't do it again. And I love you and I
respect you, and that's not respect and it's not regardless
(03:43):
of what you may think, Like, that's so gas lighting.
Am I alone in this? No? No, no, you're not
not at all. It's a lot, it's a lot. This
is something dudes do, though, which is terribly upsetting because
I think when when when guys do something terrible, they
(04:03):
go into like this dumb panic mode part of their brain. Like,
these are things I can say that I know they're
not true, but there's things I can say because they
make me appear to be something that I am not,
and then it can get me past this till and
then I can I can just move on with my life.
And uh it's always like uh you know, um, I
(04:23):
I can change. You know, this isn't who I really am.
Uh yeah, regardless of what you think, I have the
almost love and respect for you know, regardless of what
you think, I'm not going to do it again, and
regardless of what you think. I'm healthy now, regardless of
what you think, and you know what that does. It's
just gas lighting and making this woman feel crazy. And
that's why we take back cheaters every single time. But
(04:45):
Is that a man thing or is that just like
an unhealthy a addict behavior. I mean, but both our
genders are prone to between this, but it's it's heavy
handed on the man. In my personal opinion, I think
men do that a lot more than than women do.
I will say when I like messed up, I never
said like, well and again I'm not in my last marriage,
(05:07):
but like and when I was like dating relationships, I'd
be like, I would never say regardless of what you
may think, because that's just like I don't have to
say that. I'd just be like, I'm not going to
do that or I'm not gonna this is what I did.
You know, it's like a regardless you may think it's
so narcissistically gas lighting, that was just throwing something in
there to make them. Yeah, I don't know. I respect
you regardless of what don't like. Literally, this is what
(05:28):
you should have said, Chloe, I messed up. I did
not respect you. You know, I mess up over and
over again. I didn't respect you. I have even I
wanted I love like I tried to love you, but
I don't know how to love because I don't know
respect for myself. You know, I don't respect for so
don't say you respect someone and then do that well,
And I just think that they probably don't have the
(05:49):
ability to be that vulnerable and to do that. No,
they don't have empathy. That's the issue. That's the piece
that there's actually my ex never got. That's a piece
that I don't think Tristan get. Then why girls they
don't feel truly bad. They don't take full ownership. And
that's my issue with those kind of apologies. And they
can make up in their head why they did something.
(06:10):
They can literally make up a reason. Well, I did
too hard. I was dating Chloe or you know, we
wrote a book and it was like so much pressure.
I don't care that you haven't you made choices? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I was heated when I read Surprise Now Yeah, because
when I saw it, I was like Jan was going
to have a thought about for sure. It's just I
(06:34):
just don't understand how someone can say I respect you
and then still like regardless of like, I just can't
well and then she deserves a reapology, don't Yeah, like
why didn't you clear that with someone? You know what
I mean? Did some woman tell him? Yeah? That's not
like actually because he might here's here's the thing, and
(06:55):
this is Devil's advocate. He might be like, okay, and
this is the same thing with Mike or any X
or whatever uh they might That is how that's that
that they think they're respecting like to their best ability
of what respecting is. But that is not true respect
at all. So I don't know. I just in like
(07:18):
any woman out there, don't first of all, don't listen
to regardless of what you think, because regardless of what
you think they're doing it, they're still doing it. They're
gonna do it regardless of what you think. I personally
think that's like the I mean the amount of times
that I heard that in my last relationship, Like it's
like you're trying to convince the other person. I don't
(07:38):
even I don't even understand why. I'm never going to
do it again, regardless what you think. I'm never I'm
a changed person, regardless of what you think. I don't
lie anymore, regardless of what you think. I'm sober, regardless
of what you think. Because you're telling the other person
that that their thoughts don't matter, and and that in
itself means you don't respect them. You know, like, oh,
(07:59):
what you're thinking isn't the truth, And that's not that's
it's not important to me the person that is like
on my hands and knees telling you how much I
love you. Also, your thoughts don't matter because they're wrong.
And yeah, and I remember taking that one piece too
to therapy, like how can you say you respect someone
and do be? Yeah? How I don't say And that's
(08:19):
what got me the most. More regardless we're saying I
respect you, I'm like, no, no, no, you don't get
to say that. You do not get to say I
respect you, because out of all the things you might,
you might actually love that person might actually whatever you
do not respect to them, or you wouldn't do it.
I don't think all yeah exactly, like don't say you
respect me? Like I have disrespected you and I'm so
(08:42):
sorry for this. I would have I would have accepted that,
as Chloe. I would have accepted that if Mike said
that to me, you know, I have disrespected you? Not
well I did these things because but then would you
just go back to him because he said the right thing?
I mean, they're always going to say the right thing.
That's the that's the problem. But then that's you have
to look at the pattern. It's like if I were
to look back at all the things that like Tristan,
(09:04):
like Mike person said, they're gonna if they do it again,
it's a pattern. Yeah, I hope she doesn't. Oh, I pray,
And I was like rooting for them, like to make
it work because I'm always the person like even to
this day, everyone's like, do you believe in the good fight?
Do you believe? I one percent believe that people can
change and that you can grow. But I mean even
like you know Lisa Um you know turkish i was
(09:27):
pronounced her last name butcher. But I love her and
she's like, you know, people if the patterns they continue,
and it's like at some point you just have to
realize it as a pattern and not it's not changing.
So but I do believe in if someone makes a mistake,
they ability to change and to not cheat again. I
do believe that, But I also think there's if there's
(09:48):
a pattern and it's not changing, like don't stay in
it because you're gonna be you know you just yeah,
I mean, honestly, Catherine, if I would have stayed in
my marriage, it would have happened again, and and how
who knows when I would have left, would start over
at fifty sixty. Yeah, yeah, but anyways, I'm sorry. I
just had to get on my little soapbox because it
(10:09):
really triggered me the other day when I read it,
and I can only imagine how freaking Chloe felt. And
I just like, I don't know, we don't know the
ins and outs. But regardless of who they are, what
they are, how they are, that is not an apology,
and someone who's been in the same shoes deserves a
better apology. Don't do don't do it to the people,
do it to her. Yeah, that's the other thing. Anyone
(10:31):
listening with apology, Come on, I can't with that. Just yeah,
and anyone else listening, don't say hardless what you think. Yeah,
just do it. Yeah, just do it. Show people the action.
Actually yeah, it really is. Yeah, it's all complicating. Yeah,
(10:52):
actually easiest thing just yeah, just like own what you
did and uh and talking about how you're going to
move on. Yeah. I mean, Catherine, you've got some stuff
you want to talk about too, but we have um
so can we say that to the end of the show.
I know you and the wind down. Listeners have some
burning questions burning um, but we have got Have you
(11:15):
ever watched catfish? Yes? A few times. Have you ever
been catfished? Now you haven't, have you? Well they define catfished.
Well that's what I kind of want to know. I
want to ask. Okay, I really kind of need the
definition of catfished. All right, Well, we have a host
of catfish on the show, Niv Shulman, so I'm excited
(11:36):
to get him on. Let's take a break and then
we will talk all about catfish. What's up? Nive? Hey you,
how are you? I'm really glad you didn't. You probably
(12:00):
heard that. I'm really glad you didn't. Catfish mean today
many times to get that one. Oh my mom just
coming out and saying they're coming. I am a black
belt in bad jokes. The more than okay good um okay.
I as a former Dancing with the Stars alumni as well,
(12:23):
I was really rooting for you on that show. You
were so fairly good, not hard enough. Maybe you had,
you know, got a few more people to vote. I know,
I'm sorry I could I would have had it. But
do you have fun? Those that experience is the only
(12:47):
thing that's ever happened. That really made me regret my
life choices. I should have just been a professional dance
I should have just pursued dance and been a dancer.
But alas, I'm happy with what I'm where I'm at,
So it's fine. No, you were even you were really
good and you were fun to follow along. So that
was if anyone wants to go watch your experience semi finals.
(13:12):
But you know, I had a few breakdowns along the
way because it's like, you know, I'm not a dancer.
It was it was in the bottom or yeah, me
and Gleb we're in the bottom like all the time, glove.
At the time, I was I was separated. Interesting question, Yeah, yeah,
(13:34):
I was separated. Um, but yeah, no, it was to
talk about that another time. But it was it was
a fun it was it was. It was. It was
crazy because I feel like it's just mentally just messes
you up, you know, because you're like you're you and
you are successful and then you go on a show
(13:54):
and you're like, I suck and it makes you feel
like you're just I don't know. For me, it was
a it was a kind of it was fun. I
would actually love to go back and then have more
fun with it, yeah, and not be like miserable with
my marriage. How your oh I got divorced. Yeah, so
(14:15):
speaking of catfish, um oh man, we can laugh about
it now, I know, but I will tell you like
it's been you know now in like the dating world
and like the terrified of being like catfished, right because
like a lot of times you meet people online or
you know, dating apps, or remember one time and when gosh,
(14:36):
before I met my ex husband, I went on a
I think it was I don't even know. I think
it was okay Cupid, and I met with this guy,
but he was like not what he had the height
he was at like he said he was like six
foot and I show up and he's like five foot.
I'm like, is that catfished or no? Yeah, well actually
that's funny. I just I was just talking to someone
I can't remember the who, but who is in a
(14:58):
relationship now with a girl. But when they when when
they met, he was shocked because you know, the pictures
that she had posted we're either from a long enough
ago and or had been edited and altered to make her,
you know, look a lot thinner than she is. And
(15:21):
if she had posted photos of herself the way she
really looked, they probably would not have gone out with them,
but they did and they amazingly it didn't matter and
they actually ended up in a relationship. But yeah, it's happening.
A lot of the people are obviously doing whatever they
can to make themselves as as appealing as possible. And
I think the word is is technically kitten fishing. Um
(15:46):
where you're you, but you're sort of bending and blurring
the lines women want to be. Yeah, like there's that
there's a little younger or yeah, I mean there's that
face app I mean there's there's one even filter on
Instagram that I tried using one time because I was like, oh,
(16:06):
my friend Caitlin looks so pretty, and I tried it
and I was like, oh my god, I look nothing
like myself. So I was like, no, Caitlyn Crosby, because
we don't, you know, we can't talk. We know, we
don't talk about Caitlin Bristow. We're good, I know, I
know I really like her. Anyway, cat fishing for sure,
(16:29):
still still happening more and more. Um Yeah, but like,
I mean, your show has been on for ten years,
so obviously it's still happening. We're going to have our
tend anniversary soon. We're about to Yeah, we're about to
actually have our tenure anniversary. And I'm actually at the
Catfish office in l A right now about to go
(16:49):
film another episode. I mean, we're just they just keep
coming in, the emails, the applications, there's no doesn't seem
to be any end. So it used to be you've
got catfished, like how did you get catfish? Ten years ago?
And there wasn't really the dating app were there's dating
apps ten years ago? There was just like that was
sort of early on, but not really no. I mean
(17:10):
I think it it tended to be primarily just sort
of through social media. Um, that was sort of where
the show started, which was, you know, I'm on Facebook,
I got this friend request this guy or girl seems
really sweet and cute, but they live far away, and
now we're talking and you know, or we met on
an a l chat room or on my Space, you
(17:33):
know like chat right. Yeah, um, I we even did
an episode once where people met on like a chat line.
I don't know if you remember that. You know, you
call in a phone number and you listen to people's
recordings where they're like, hey, I'm Jeff and I'm twenty five,
and then you're like, yeah, that sounds good. Then it
connects you with them. But I never used one, but
(17:53):
it's a thing, um anyway. So so there've been you know,
different forms over the years, obviously before the Internet, but
we're getting catfish, you know, through like letters, right, people
had pen pals, and it's throughout the ages. There have
been different ways. Um, but yeah, I mean now it's
(18:13):
just so easy. What's been like the saddest thing for
you over the years, Like, was there a story that
you actually felt like really bad for someone? But yeah,
for sure there have been. Um it's hard to separate
them in my brain when I kind of just try
to like go through the catalog of because I think
we've done almost two hundred episodes now and and sort
(18:39):
of pick pick one out. I mean, there have definitely
been people who I think we're more devastated or heartbroken
than others, um at sort of discovering the truth of
this relationship, whether it was because it was a longer
relationship or just because they had really thought this person
cared about them. Oh you know what it was there
(19:00):
was one that just came to mind. That was this girl,
um and I can't remember the names, but she was
she was a young black girl, and we took her
to meet this other black girl. It was the first
time she'd ever like dabbled in a same sex relationship,
which was a big deal for her, and she was
really nervous about it. Um And I don't know if
(19:20):
she had come out fully to her sort of family
and friends. Um. And we took her to meet this
girl in San Francisco, and it turned out the girl
wasn't lying about who she was. She she was just
scamming her. She was just like using her for money. Mum.
And obviously the other girl was just so devastated. She
felt like she finally put herself out there and and
(19:43):
met a woman and had felt something, and it turned
out it was just kind of all fraud. It's a bumber,
especially like when you're trying to like something that's you know, new,
and what's tips tips not to get catfished? Um, it's
(20:06):
getting getting cat fished, you know, just like you know
nowadays right with like COVID Right, I'm not I don't
want to try to say that they're similar, but like
you can take precautions, right, you can wear a mask,
and you can social distance, you can do all these
(20:27):
things that were all that are all like good and
good precautions to take. But you're there's always gonna be
a vulnerable spot, right, There's always gonna be some way
in that you can't predict or that you're not looking
out for or you let your guard down for a second.
Um And and I think it's the same with like love, right,
I mean, no matter how closed up someone as or
(20:49):
how many times they've been burned, or if they have
trust issues, like if the right person with the right
message at the right time catches you kind of off guard.
I think people are so desperate for affection and attention
that there quick to forget that Oh my god, wait
a second, this person. I don't know this person. We
(21:10):
don't have neutual friends. You know, their their profile is weird,
but like, but god, they're so sweet and oh they
make me feel so good, so like, let me just
talk to them. And then before you know it, that
sort of turns into a flirt flirting and then uh,
you know, a daily the conversation and feelings like it's hard,
it's hard and so the trick, I guess is if
(21:32):
you can give yourself like a very strict rule that
if you're talking to someone that you don't know in person,
they have to video chat with you. Um, you know,
they have to have a certain sort of level of
presence online, whether it's photos with friends and tagged accounts
(21:53):
and like people that you interact like. I'd always think
it's weird when I talked to people on the show
and I'm like, you've been talking to them for a
few years, like, who are their friends or or are
you friends with any of their friends? On Instagram? Who
do you fall? Like? Surely people post pictures of their
life and there like if they don't have anybody else
(22:14):
in their life that's visible that you can sort of
contact or connect with or follow, like, that's weird. So
I don't know, there's lots of ways to sort of
look out for it. But again, it's amazing what the
sort of brain and heart are able to do to
convince people when they're something that they want, you know,
especially if you're wanting that companionship. But to sort of
(22:39):
tie it in to what you said before, what the
story I've said before about the girls who kind of
got scammed. Um. Similarly on like in ways to not
get catfished, you should also like there's a lot of
romance scams are happening right now. Like I think people
forget that just because you're on a dating app means that,
(22:59):
like someone can't be on there just looking to scam you,
whether they're lying like not, not to cattish you for love,
like just to scam you. Um, which is which is which?
Sort of partly why I did this this whole thing
with Zel because use Dell. No what is that? Really?
Don't know what Zell is? No, you do? What is it?
(23:23):
Heard of it? So I've never heard of it? Oh wow, Okay,
so I'm looking. Yeah, it's it's a like peer to
peer payment platform. Um, it's similar. Um the differences at
Zell is like built into your banking app. Right, so
(23:44):
if you have is a fast, safe and easy way
to send and receive money with friends failing others you trust,
right exactly. And what's cool about Zel is that it's
it's way more like sort of verified um. And they're
making a big effort and I'm thrilled to be a
part of it to like help people avoid sending money
(24:05):
to the wrong people and getting scammed. Um. And so
I'm realizing more and more that, like, especially with the pandemic,
a lot of people are out of work and they're
turning to sort of online scam activities to support themselves.
We even did an episode where the person was like, yeah,
I'm just since the pandemic, I lost my job and
(24:25):
now I just go online and the catfish guys and
they send me money. Um, oh my god. Anyway, yeah,
so you gotta you gotta be really carefully, gotta you
gotta be smart with your heart and your cash. Yeah,
don't do that. Don't give cash. No. And it's so
crazy too because I'll get people being like, oh, you know,
we've been talking for you know, months, and I'm like,
(24:46):
that is not my account, like you know, it's like
and then it's like, are you at this person says
you're asking for money, and I'm like, anybody with the
blue check mark is not going to ask for money,
Like you're just not, like right, I'd hope not Jesus.
I don't know. I don't know. It's just it's just
it's great, Like it's just like, yeah, I love it.
(25:08):
Do the And I always say like within the first week.
I'm like, I'm face timing with you. I don't care, like,
because you never know, even if you do have a
blue checkmark, you could be scammed. Someone could be like,
um easily, you know, um, maybe their got hacked. I'm like,
why why is a rod wanted to DM me? I'm kidding,
but like, you know, so we also we did an
episode with a guy who was verified and he had
(25:31):
like he had his nephew kind of running his like
social media, so he like his nephew was using his
d MS to like talk to girls, and they thought
it was you know, like to get to get like
sexy pictures, you know, like you know, we're just happen.
It's great. How long have you married for? I will
(25:51):
have been married we got married and seventeen. I'm glad
I asked you, so it will be I guess it
will be five years in June. What's been what's been
the hardest part of marriage? Doing your wedding day has
been the hardest part? Um the hardest part about being married?
(26:17):
Mhm you well, yeah, I mean I think that's in
a good way though, because like you know, it hasn't
been that hard. That's good, you know. I mean I
think the hard right now that the occupied the space
that gets occupied for me about that's like difficult. It's
just dark kids, right like pick three having three kids.
(26:37):
It's just that's hard. Um, it's great, but it's also Hardum,
So I think right now then the answer would probably
be like finding time for us, you know, like being
able to like just to be in love. That's hard.
But when you're married, like it can get hard to
(26:59):
be to like just remember to be in love. Um. Yeah, okay,
So in the next few weeks, surprise your wife with
a date. Yeah. No, I'm I'm actively always looking for
ways to do stuff. Um, I even you know, like
it's embarrassing, but um, you know I get like ads
(27:20):
on TikTok for like cute like romantic gifts a lot
just great, you know, like like you know, oh my god,
if my boyfriend got me this, it would be so sweet. Um.
And so I even got her. And this is actually
funny because I kind of sometimes confuse our wedding anniversary
is it the June twenty So I actually got a
key chain, like a really cute heart shaped key chaining
(27:43):
with like the month of I guess it doesn't let me,
let me, let me google when you got married. And
but it's got like a circle around the day we
got married. Get married, so that you got married July.
That's seventy right, I gotta write on the key chain.
(28:10):
Please tell me you did, because I would be hilarious. Well,
I love it. You know what, I think a combination
of age and now three kids, Like I'm thirty seven. Okay,
I'm thirty eight. You can't talk about age because that's
not fair. Now you make me feel really old. Well no,
I just mean like you start to things. You know,
I have a lot of dates to keep in my head. Now,
(28:32):
I got to remember all the kid's birthdays. I gotta remember. Yeah, um,
well yeah, it's just a lot so security stuff, Like
there's a lot of things, a lot of numbers up. Yeah. Well,
you know what, as long as you're happy, it's all
that matters. And it sounds like you are. And keep
(28:53):
watching a Catfish on MTV. I'm excited that it's been
on for so long. Wednesday's eight o'clock, Wednesday's eight talk
and um, maybe I'll see you on like the All
Stars Dancing with the Stars, you know, like I thought
maybe it was gonna happen this year because it was
like thirtieth anniversary season. But alas here, here, we are here,
(29:15):
where we are still sitting here, not dancing waiting. All Right,
you're the best. Don't get catfish out there, and um yeah,
stop the scammers because that's not cool. You're the best.
See you Okay. Bye. Oh he's so funny. I love him,
(29:37):
Thank you bye. He legitimately did not know if it
was Junior July. He had not a clue. Glad we
can google it though. So sweet. Um, that was really funny. Um, okay,
let's take a break and then Catherine, we'll be back
with some questions. Alright, cat, what's up? Well? First thing,
(30:08):
I forgot to ask you last week? Oh did you
cry on New Year's I didn't. I didn't you ear.
I was just curious. I was gonna ask you. I
was gonna wait. No, I made my little goal list
and I it's like I did personal work and relationship
(30:32):
like you know, friends, whatever what I want for the
hearts this year? Um, And it was great. And then
I played ping pong, had some friends over and it
was it was really really great and I was like
so happy. I didn't cry. Good. I'm so glad. Yeah,
it was. It was great. I mean, how many years
(30:53):
has it been? Years? Years? Years? Hey, there's in your year.
Oh yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, I actually re listened
to that episode with um Suarie because it was that
meditation stuff was good and then just kind of her
voice is very calming to beause. I loved her. I
know's so cute. Um. But yeah, no, that was that
(31:16):
was That was a good way to go into the year.
But I did have was it the next day? Oh no, no, no, no,
there wasn't a but but I had like I had
a freak out because I'm like and I kind of
posted it. I didn't kind of post I posted it
on Instagram. It's it's kind of like the unknown year.
(31:36):
So that kind of freaked me out a little bit
because I was like, because you know, even though last
year everything happened whatever, but at least I went into
the year like as a family and married and like,
I have no clue what's going to happen this year.
I have no clue. But it's like kind of great
and oh in Annie downs um she she because I
DMed her. I was like, I love you, thanks for
that talking church. She loved to come on the podcast,
(31:57):
So we're going to get her on. Yeah, yeah, to
kind of talk about the Unknown near and all about it.
But it was just like that. It caused me a
teeny bit of anxiety. But also I'm kind of like
looking at it in a way to be like, Okay,
let's it's exciting. Let's make exciting things happen, and the
unknown near Steve the Unknown near? Yes, go for it.
(32:17):
How are how how are how are things? How's your
love life? Oh? Wow? Okay, Mark, Mark's done here. I
thought I would just you know, I'm just gonna go
for it. Didn't even ask me if I could. No,
you did not. Uh did you see my TikTok asking?
I feel like if we're posting, I could ask. It
(32:38):
was cute. It was cute. I'm too old to be
doing TikTok, but it was fun and I laughed a
lot and I had a good time. That's all that matters. Yeah,
there are quite a few questions about the TikTok or no,
I um, he got it really cost I went to
(32:58):
so I said, you know, I'm instagramming, I mean instagramming,
I'm podcasting today. If you guys have any questions. See,
I'm just asking what the people want to know. And
the questions were all all that, Yes, new Man, happy
for you did? Who's the boys her boyfriend? Who's the
guys in your stories? Hope he's your guy and makes
(33:19):
you happy? Who's the guy you're hanging with? How did
you know? They're like? Literally every single one? Who are
you climbing on? You do look really happy in all
of them. I appreciate it, all right. I guess that's
all I'm kidding. Driving people scared? Okay, that's fat. This
(33:41):
is a scary thing. Dating is scary. Yeah, it's very scary.
It's a scary world out there. Yeah you know, I know, right,
and you know it's just it's a's It's just it's
scary and I'm scared. I'll say that. Taking it a
day at a time, day at a time, good, Yeah,
all right, and I'll let you off. I do have
(34:01):
another question, another one I forgot to ask you. Okay,
what is the update on your friend? And invited Mike
to the party. Well, she heard the episode, great unfollowed
me on Instagram, um, and then posted stuff about like
real friends, Uh, put truth to you, um, you know,
(34:23):
speak the truth to you and fake friends just don't
call you out. And I think that was directed towards me,
But either way, I'm I kind of sat back with it,
and again I'm like, Okay, my real friends would never
have done that. Um, And so I think, I, um, yeah,
(34:45):
I mean that's kind of what it is. And you know,
thinking kind of like what Amy said to your therapist
where she was like, focus on the friendships that really
matter to you, and that one I just having a
really hard time with. And I just have no need
to have that kind of friendship where someone can say
the negative things about someone support me. It feels very
(35:08):
like fake supportive and then not say anything to me
because they were hurt and do something that's a little
like what was the word use, opportunistic or me? Yeah,
oh yeah, it felt very um oh I forgot the
word I used now, but yeah, I mean it was like,
that's just a friend would never do that. No. Well,
and you know, we talk a lot in therapy about
(35:29):
loyalty and loyal friends and even if there was an issue,
she should have come to you, not just invited him
and not told you. Yeah, that's not being a loyal
friend and again like that's fine, Like I have no problem. Again,
I'm sure we'll be at the same things with but
I mean that would have been our only friends that
we would have maybe done something. But I had again
(35:51):
had no idea since they had said such negative things
and hadn't spoken to him, So it just felt like, well,
you hurt me, so I invited him, Like what a
vindictive Yeah, So that's UM, And I just I don't
want to go into the year. I kind of send
my piece, UM, and I want to go into the
new year with focusing on the friendships that are really
(36:14):
important to me and cater to those and be a
good friend to those people, and continue to be a
good friend to those people. And I don't know what
about you and your friend. UM, I haven't heard back
from her, So what are you gonna do? I don't know.
I'm still struggling with that one. UM. Loyalty is a
(36:34):
big one for me. I'm just we're talking about that
a lot in therapy, and we talked more about it
today your therapy today more lord, UM. But yes, to
answer that, loyalty is just a very big one to me.
I think going back to family, I didn't feel like
my family was loyal and yeah, when when did that
(36:58):
come up today? No? But I mean like when did
you realize that literally literally breakthrough a little bit. Yeah, well,
we've been talking about loyalty with friends, but then it
just kind of hit me today that I didn't feel
like people in my life growing up are loyal like
my mom when I mean for a lot of Yeah,
(37:23):
So in like, what ways did you not feel like
loyal from your mom? Well, I didn't feel like she
had my back. I didn't feel like I could trust her. Um,
you know, I don't believe the things that come out
of her mouth still to this day. You know, we
have a fine relationship now, but there's no there's really
no trust there. And so when it comes out in
other people, when it comes out with friends, you know,
(37:46):
yeah it is And and there's a part of me
that just wants to email her back and go, Okay,
forget about it, forget I said anything, It's fine, don't
worry about it. I'm sorry, And that's always my like
go to and I still every day sometimes you're you know,
every whatever, I'm like, maybe I should just do that
to make everything okay. But I don't want to do
that this time, you know, I really don't. I just
(38:07):
want so I don't know. I don't know where that
will end up. But I never heard back from her
when we addressed it. So I did the first time,
but not the second time. So I don't know. If
it fizzles, it fizzles. You know, it's really interesting that
you say that piece because a part of me, I
was even a couple of days ago with the situation
with that friend of texting and being like, hey, I'm sorry,
let's sit down and talk, just because I don't want
(38:30):
And it's not that I don't want negative energy, but
I just I want her to like me and not
think that negative energy, yeah, or bad energy about me,
even though I know that, like I can sit and go.
I would love to hear how I heard her, even
it doesn't but yeah, I don't know's yeah, I mean,
(38:51):
we have mutual friends, and I constantly I'm like, I
hate that, Like, you know, our mutual friends may think
badly of me. But I'm like, you know what, I can't.
I can't at that. You know, there's always two sides
to every story. I understand that, um, but you know
it's tough, and I know that I'm gonna lose probably
some friendships over it. But you know, at the same time,
(39:11):
I'm not Catherine is not just going to go in
and say, Okay, I'm sorry, pretend to pretend like I
never said anything, and just sweep it under the rug.
I'm not going to do that. So if she wants
to come to me and say, hey, let's let's really
talk about this and let me apologize for what I did,
but here's why I did and here's what you did
or whatever, I'm fine with that same um. But you know,
(39:31):
we don't need to go in and just clear the energy.
To clear the energy, and in my opinion, I mean,
I think that we can be respectful and we can
be kind and we can be nice, but that does
mean we have to cave either. Yeah. I love that. Yeah,
I like that a lot. Anyway, good is looking good,
looking great, looking good. We're falling on our butts from
(39:54):
TikTok's we're learning and therapy ever get it? Like good
the did you see it? I didn't see the good one? Yeah,
I didn't post the good ones on Instagram. And then
we did another one too, and then we might try
the koala. I saw you post that. I don't know
what it is. I'm not like a koala. Someone damned
me and was like, you should try the koala. I
(40:14):
don't want to watch, so I gotta ask him if, if,
if we can try that one. But I have a
feeling I would fall flat on my face. But having
said that, you're the girl that can't do handstand against
the Nope, I can't do it. Yeah, okay um, we'll
be back next week. See them, see
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast. Okay,
I'm coming in hot to this podcast, okay, I And
I don't know if it's because in Eastern I have
you on too, because I really need like the male's
perspective even though you are like polar opposite from this person,
but I still need to have like your you know,
(00:25):
male nous in this um and I and I get that,
like I'm about to just sound maybe crazy to some
Do you have any idea where I'm going, Like no clue,
I'm trying to follow so bad. I love it, though,
what is it? Okay? You know, we don't really talk
about a lot of like pop culture stuff on this podcast,
(00:47):
like not too much. I mean we talked about you know,
selling sense and all those things. Blah blah blah. We
have some housewives on. I have to talk about the
apology that Tristan gave to Clarie. I'm sorry that was
not an apology and I'm not, like, can I just
read it really fast because I like got like actually triggered,
(01:08):
and I know it's not about me whatever, Like I
get that I can see where that's triggering. Yeah, So
I take full responsibility for my actions now that blah
blah blah blah. I sincerely apologized to everyone I've heard
or disappointed throughout this ordeal, both publicly, uh and privately. Chloe,
this is this is where my my my boil goes
because I'm like, again, I have lived through I haven't
(01:31):
not to my knowledge, he hasn't. I don't have any
little babies. So he has little babies out there. I
don't know, like there's there is always that possibility. Um,
but Chloe, you don't deserve this, That's right. You don't
deserve the heartache and humiliation I have caused you. You
don't deserve the way that I've treated you over the years.
(01:51):
My actions certainly have not lined up with the way
I view you. I have the This is the part
that literally boils my skin ready for it. I have
the utmost respect and love for you. Mm hmm. Clearly
not were This is another thing that this is the
next line is so gaslighting to me, and I don't
(02:13):
know if it's just me regardless of what you may
think mm hmm. Again, I am so incredibly sorry. I
was like, no, that's not an apology, and this is
what my issue is. And maybe I'm maybe I'm close
to this because I feel like I haven't gotten the
apology that I feel like I deserved from my last situation.
(02:36):
But like, first of all, don't say in there I
have the utmost respect for you, regardless of what you
may think. Well, of course he doesn't ever what you don't.
You don't cheat on someone over and over and over
and over again and say that I respect you like
you have an issue. You should have said I have
been I have been so disrespectful and I haven't respected you.
(02:57):
That's owning something. That's apologizing, that's saying. And you can say, fine, yes, okay,
you love her. You You can say I love you,
but I don't know how to love because that's not loving.
So if someone says I have respect for you, I
respect you both, sorry, I'm getting heated because this is
like same like the ship with Mike. But like, how
(03:21):
can men like that that say that say they have
respect for you and then go regardless what you may think,
Because then then that makes us feel crazy. That goes
to us to going, oh, well, maybe they do respect
us because they're saying like the amount of times that
he would say regardless of what you think, Like I
won't do it again. And I love you and I
respect you, and that's not respect and it's not regardless
(03:43):
of what you may think, Like, that's so gas lighting.
Am I alone in this? No? No, no, you're not
not at all. It's a lot, it's a lot. This
is something dudes do, though, which is terribly upsetting because
I think when when when guys do something terrible, they
(04:03):
go into like this dumb panic mode part of their brain. Like,
these are things I can say that I know they're
not true, but there's things I can say because they
make me appear to be something that I am not,
and then it can get me past this till and
then I can I can just move on with my life.
And uh it's always like uh you know, um, I
(04:23):
I can change. You know, this isn't who I really am.
Uh yeah, regardless of what you think, I have the
almost love and respect for you know, regardless of what
you think, I'm not going to do it again, and
regardless of what you think. I'm healthy now, regardless of
what you think, and you know what that does. It's
just gas lighting and making this woman feel crazy. And
that's why we take back cheaters every single time. But
(04:45):
Is that a man thing or is that just like
an unhealthy a addict behavior. I mean, but both our
genders are prone to between this, but it's it's heavy
handed on the man. In my personal opinion, I think
men do that a lot more than than women do.
I will say when I like messed up, I never
said like, well and again I'm not in my last marriage,
(05:07):
but like and when I was like dating relationships, I'd
be like, I would never say regardless of what you
may think, because that's just like I don't have to
say that. I'd just be like, I'm not going to
do that or I'm not gonna this is what I did.
You know, it's like a regardless you may think it's
so narcissistically gas lighting, that was just throwing something in
there to make them. Yeah, I don't know. I respect
you regardless of what don't like. Literally, this is what
(05:28):
you should have said, Chloe, I messed up. I did
not respect you. You know, I mess up over and
over again. I didn't respect you. I have even I
wanted I love like I tried to love you, but
I don't know how to love because I don't know
respect for myself. You know, I don't respect for so
don't say you respect someone and then do that well,
And I just think that they probably don't have the
(05:49):
ability to be that vulnerable and to do that. No,
they don't have empathy. That's the issue. That's the piece
that there's actually my ex never got. That's a piece
that I don't think Tristan get. Then why girls they
don't feel truly bad. They don't take full ownership. And
that's my issue with those kind of apologies. And they
can make up in their head why they did something.
(06:10):
They can literally make up a reason. Well, I did
too hard. I was dating Chloe or you know, we
wrote a book and it was like so much pressure.
I don't care that you haven't you made choices? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I was heated when I read Surprise Now Yeah, because
when I saw it, I was like Jan was going
to have a thought about for sure. It's just I
(06:34):
just don't understand how someone can say I respect you
and then still like regardless of like, I just can't
well and then she deserves a reapology, don't Yeah, like
why didn't you clear that with someone? You know what
I mean? Did some woman tell him? Yeah? That's not
like actually because he might here's here's the thing, and
(06:55):
this is Devil's advocate. He might be like, okay, and
this is the same thing with Mike or any X
or whatever uh they might That is how that's that
that they think they're respecting like to their best ability
of what respecting is. But that is not true respect
at all. So I don't know. I just in like
(07:18):
any woman out there, don't first of all, don't listen
to regardless of what you think, because regardless of what
you think they're doing it, they're still doing it. They're
gonna do it regardless of what you think. I personally
think that's like the I mean the amount of times
that I heard that in my last relationship, Like it's
like you're trying to convince the other person. I don't
(07:38):
even I don't even understand why. I'm never going to
do it again, regardless what you think. I'm never I'm
a changed person, regardless of what you think. I don't
lie anymore, regardless of what you think. I'm sober, regardless
of what you think. Because you're telling the other person
that that their thoughts don't matter, and and that in
itself means you don't respect them. You know, like, oh,
(07:59):
what you're thinking isn't the truth, And that's not that's
it's not important to me the person that is like
on my hands and knees telling you how much I
love you. Also, your thoughts don't matter because they're wrong.
And yeah, and I remember taking that one piece too
to therapy, like how can you say you respect someone
and do be? Yeah? How I don't say And that's
(08:19):
what got me the most. More regardless we're saying I
respect you, I'm like, no, no, no, you don't get
to say that. You do not get to say I
respect you, because out of all the things you might,
you might actually love that person might actually whatever you
do not respect to them, or you wouldn't do it.
I don't think all yeah exactly, like don't say you
respect me? Like I have disrespected you and I'm so
(08:42):
sorry for this. I would have I would have accepted that,
as Chloe. I would have accepted that if Mike said
that to me, you know, I have disrespected you? Not
well I did these things because but then would you
just go back to him because he said the right thing?
I mean, they're always going to say the right thing.
That's the that's the problem. But then that's you have
to look at the pattern. It's like if I were
to look back at all the things that like Tristan,
(09:04):
like Mike person said, they're gonna if they do it again,
it's a pattern. Yeah, I hope she doesn't. Oh, I pray,
And I was like rooting for them, like to make
it work because I'm always the person like even to
this day, everyone's like, do you believe in the good fight?
Do you believe? I one percent believe that people can
change and that you can grow. But I mean even
like you know Lisa Um you know turkish i was
(09:27):
pronounced her last name butcher. But I love her and
she's like, you know, people if the patterns they continue,
and it's like at some point you just have to
realize it as a pattern and not it's not changing.
So but I do believe in if someone makes a mistake,
they ability to change and to not cheat again. I
do believe that, But I also think there's if there's
(09:48):
a pattern and it's not changing, like don't stay in
it because you're gonna be you know you just yeah,
I mean, honestly, Catherine, if I would have stayed in
my marriage, it would have happened again, and and how
who knows when I would have left, would start over
at fifty sixty. Yeah, yeah, but anyways, I'm sorry. I
just had to get on my little soapbox because it
(10:09):
really triggered me the other day when I read it,
and I can only imagine how freaking Chloe felt. And
I just like, I don't know, we don't know the
ins and outs. But regardless of who they are, what
they are, how they are, that is not an apology,
and someone who's been in the same shoes deserves a
better apology. Don't do don't do it to the people,
do it to her. Yeah, that's the other thing. Anyone
(10:31):
listening with apology, Come on, I can't with that. Just yeah,
and anyone else listening, don't say hardless what you think. Yeah,
just do it. Yeah, just do it. Show people the action.
Actually yeah, it really is. Yeah, it's all complicating. Yeah,
(10:52):
actually easiest thing just yeah, just like own what you
did and uh and talking about how you're going to
move on. Yeah. I mean, Catherine, you've got some stuff
you want to talk about too, but we have um
so can we say that to the end of the show.
I know you and the wind down. Listeners have some
burning questions burning um, but we have got Have you
(11:15):
ever watched catfish? Yes? A few times. Have you ever
been catfished? Now you haven't, have you? Well they define catfished.
Well that's what I kind of want to know. I
want to ask. Okay, I really kind of need the
definition of catfished. All right, Well, we have a host
of catfish on the show, Niv Shulman, so I'm excited
(11:36):
to get him on. Let's take a break and then
we will talk all about catfish. What's up? Nive? Hey you,
how are you? I'm really glad you didn't. You probably
(12:00):
heard that. I'm really glad you didn't. Catfish mean today
many times to get that one. Oh my mom just
coming out and saying they're coming. I am a black
belt in bad jokes. The more than okay good um okay.
I as a former Dancing with the Stars alumni as well,
(12:23):
I was really rooting for you on that show. You
were so fairly good, not hard enough. Maybe you had,
you know, got a few more people to vote. I know,
I'm sorry I could I would have had it. But
do you have fun? Those that experience is the only
(12:47):
thing that's ever happened. That really made me regret my
life choices. I should have just been a professional dance
I should have just pursued dance and been a dancer.
But alas, I'm happy with what I'm where I'm at,
So it's fine. No, you were even you were really
good and you were fun to follow along. So that
was if anyone wants to go watch your experience semi finals.
(13:12):
But you know, I had a few breakdowns along the
way because it's like, you know, I'm not a dancer.
It was it was in the bottom or yeah, me
and Gleb we're in the bottom like all the time, glove.
At the time, I was I was separated. Interesting question, Yeah, yeah,
(13:34):
I was separated. Um, but yeah, no, it was to
talk about that another time. But it was it was
a fun it was it was. It was. It was
crazy because I feel like it's just mentally just messes
you up, you know, because you're like you're you and
you are successful and then you go on a show
(13:54):
and you're like, I suck and it makes you feel
like you're just I don't know. For me, it was
a it was a kind of it was fun. I
would actually love to go back and then have more
fun with it, yeah, and not be like miserable with
my marriage. How your oh I got divorced. Yeah, so
(14:15):
speaking of catfish, um oh man, we can laugh about
it now, I know, but I will tell you like
it's been you know now in like the dating world
and like the terrified of being like catfished, right because
like a lot of times you meet people online or
you know, dating apps, or remember one time and when gosh,
(14:36):
before I met my ex husband, I went on a
I think it was I don't even know. I think
it was okay Cupid, and I met with this guy,
but he was like not what he had the height
he was at like he said he was like six
foot and I show up and he's like five foot.
I'm like, is that catfished or no? Yeah, well actually
that's funny. I just I was just talking to someone
I can't remember the who, but who is in a
(14:58):
relationship now with a girl. But when they when when
they met, he was shocked because you know, the pictures
that she had posted we're either from a long enough
ago and or had been edited and altered to make her,
you know, look a lot thinner than she is. And
(15:21):
if she had posted photos of herself the way she
really looked, they probably would not have gone out with them,
but they did and they amazingly it didn't matter and
they actually ended up in a relationship. But yeah, it's happening.
A lot of the people are obviously doing whatever they
can to make themselves as as appealing as possible. And
I think the word is is technically kitten fishing. Um
(15:46):
where you're you, but you're sort of bending and blurring
the lines women want to be. Yeah, like there's that
there's a little younger or yeah, I mean there's that
face app I mean there's there's one even filter on
Instagram that I tried using one time because I was like, oh,
(16:06):
my friend Caitlin looks so pretty, and I tried it
and I was like, oh my god, I look nothing
like myself. So I was like, no, Caitlyn Crosby, because
we don't, you know, we can't talk. We know, we
don't talk about Caitlin Bristow. We're good, I know, I
know I really like her. Anyway, cat fishing for sure,
(16:29):
still still happening more and more. Um Yeah, but like,
I mean, your show has been on for ten years,
so obviously it's still happening. We're going to have our
tend anniversary soon. We're about to Yeah, we're about to
actually have our tenure anniversary. And I'm actually at the
Catfish office in l A right now about to go
(16:49):
film another episode. I mean, we're just they just keep
coming in, the emails, the applications, there's no doesn't seem
to be any end. So it used to be you've
got catfished, like how did you get catfish? Ten years ago?
And there wasn't really the dating app were there's dating
apps ten years ago? There was just like that was
sort of early on, but not really no. I mean
(17:10):
I think it it tended to be primarily just sort
of through social media. Um, that was sort of where
the show started, which was, you know, I'm on Facebook,
I got this friend request this guy or girl seems
really sweet and cute, but they live far away, and
now we're talking and you know, or we met on
an a l chat room or on my Space, you
(17:33):
know like chat right. Yeah, um, I we even did
an episode once where people met on like a chat line.
I don't know if you remember that. You know, you
call in a phone number and you listen to people's
recordings where they're like, hey, I'm Jeff and I'm twenty five,
and then you're like, yeah, that sounds good. Then it
connects you with them. But I never used one, but
(17:53):
it's a thing, um anyway. So so there've been you know,
different forms over the years, obviously before the Internet, but
we're getting catfish, you know, through like letters, right, people
had pen pals, and it's throughout the ages. There have
been different ways. Um, but yeah, I mean now it's
(18:13):
just so easy. What's been like the saddest thing for
you over the years, Like, was there a story that
you actually felt like really bad for someone? But yeah,
for sure there have been. Um it's hard to separate
them in my brain when I kind of just try
to like go through the catalog of because I think
we've done almost two hundred episodes now and and sort
(18:39):
of pick pick one out. I mean, there have definitely
been people who I think we're more devastated or heartbroken
than others, um at sort of discovering the truth of
this relationship, whether it was because it was a longer
relationship or just because they had really thought this person
cared about them. Oh you know what it was there
(19:00):
was one that just came to mind. That was this girl,
um and I can't remember the names, but she was
she was a young black girl, and we took her
to meet this other black girl. It was the first
time she'd ever like dabbled in a same sex relationship,
which was a big deal for her, and she was
really nervous about it. Um And I don't know if
(19:20):
she had come out fully to her sort of family
and friends. Um. And we took her to meet this
girl in San Francisco, and it turned out the girl
wasn't lying about who she was. She she was just
scamming her. She was just like using her for money. Mum.
And obviously the other girl was just so devastated. She
felt like she finally put herself out there and and
(19:43):
met a woman and had felt something, and it turned
out it was just kind of all fraud. It's a bumber,
especially like when you're trying to like something that's you know, new,
and what's tips tips not to get catfished? Um, it's
(20:06):
getting getting cat fished, you know, just like you know
nowadays right with like COVID Right, I'm not I don't
want to try to say that they're similar, but like
you can take precautions, right, you can wear a mask,
and you can social distance, you can do all these
(20:27):
things that were all that are all like good and
good precautions to take. But you're there's always gonna be
a vulnerable spot, right, There's always gonna be some way
in that you can't predict or that you're not looking
out for or you let your guard down for a second.
Um And and I think it's the same with like love, right,
I mean, no matter how closed up someone as or
(20:49):
how many times they've been burned, or if they have
trust issues, like if the right person with the right
message at the right time catches you kind of off guard.
I think people are so desperate for affection and attention
that there quick to forget that Oh my god, wait
a second, this person. I don't know this person. We
(21:10):
don't have neutual friends. You know, their their profile is weird,
but like, but god, they're so sweet and oh they
make me feel so good, so like, let me just
talk to them. And then before you know it, that
sort of turns into a flirt flirting and then uh,
you know, a daily the conversation and feelings like it's hard,
it's hard and so the trick, I guess is if
(21:32):
you can give yourself like a very strict rule that
if you're talking to someone that you don't know in person,
they have to video chat with you. Um, you know,
they have to have a certain sort of level of
presence online, whether it's photos with friends and tagged accounts
(21:53):
and like people that you interact like. I'd always think
it's weird when I talked to people on the show
and I'm like, you've been talking to them for a
few years, like, who are their friends or or are
you friends with any of their friends? On Instagram? Who
do you fall? Like? Surely people post pictures of their
life and there like if they don't have anybody else
(22:14):
in their life that's visible that you can sort of
contact or connect with or follow, like, that's weird. So
I don't know, there's lots of ways to sort of
look out for it. But again, it's amazing what the
sort of brain and heart are able to do to
convince people when they're something that they want, you know,
especially if you're wanting that companionship. But to sort of
(22:39):
tie it in to what you said before, what the
story I've said before about the girls who kind of
got scammed. Um. Similarly on like in ways to not
get catfished, you should also like there's a lot of
romance scams are happening right now. Like I think people
forget that just because you're on a dating app means that,
(22:59):
like someone can't be on there just looking to scam you,
whether they're lying like not, not to cattish you for love,
like just to scam you. Um, which is which is which?
Sort of partly why I did this this whole thing
with Zel because use Dell. No what is that? Really?
Don't know what Zell is? No, you do? What is it?
(23:23):
Heard of it? So I've never heard of it? Oh wow, Okay,
so I'm looking. Yeah, it's it's a like peer to
peer payment platform. Um, it's similar. Um the differences at
Zell is like built into your banking app. Right, so
(23:44):
if you have is a fast, safe and easy way
to send and receive money with friends failing others you trust,
right exactly. And what's cool about Zel is that it's
it's way more like sort of verified um. And they're
making a big effort and I'm thrilled to be a
part of it to like help people avoid sending money
(24:05):
to the wrong people and getting scammed. Um. And so
I'm realizing more and more that, like, especially with the pandemic,
a lot of people are out of work and they're
turning to sort of online scam activities to support themselves.
We even did an episode where the person was like, yeah,
I'm just since the pandemic, I lost my job and
(24:25):
now I just go online and the catfish guys and
they send me money. Um, oh my god. Anyway, yeah,
so you gotta you gotta be really carefully, gotta you
gotta be smart with your heart and your cash. Yeah,
don't do that. Don't give cash. No. And it's so
crazy too because I'll get people being like, oh, you know,
we've been talking for you know, months, and I'm like,
(24:46):
that is not my account, like you know, it's like
and then it's like, are you at this person says
you're asking for money, and I'm like, anybody with the
blue check mark is not going to ask for money,
Like you're just not, like right, I'd hope not Jesus.
I don't know. I don't know. It's just it's just
it's great, Like it's just like, yeah, I love it.
(25:08):
Do the And I always say like within the first week.
I'm like, I'm face timing with you. I don't care, like,
because you never know, even if you do have a
blue checkmark, you could be scammed. Someone could be like,
um easily, you know, um, maybe their got hacked. I'm like,
why why is a rod wanted to DM me? I'm kidding,
but like, you know, so we also we did an
episode with a guy who was verified and he had
(25:31):
like he had his nephew kind of running his like
social media, so he like his nephew was using his
d MS to like talk to girls, and they thought
it was you know, like to get to get like
sexy pictures, you know, like you know, we're just happen.
It's great. How long have you married for? I will
(25:51):
have been married we got married and seventeen. I'm glad
I asked you, so it will be I guess it
will be five years in June. What's been what's been
the hardest part of marriage? Doing your wedding day has
been the hardest part? Um the hardest part about being married?
(26:17):
Mhm you well, yeah, I mean I think that's in
a good way though, because like you know, it hasn't
been that hard. That's good, you know. I mean I
think the hard right now that the occupied the space
that gets occupied for me about that's like difficult. It's
just dark kids, right like pick three having three kids.
(26:37):
It's just that's hard. Um, it's great, but it's also Hardum,
So I think right now then the answer would probably
be like finding time for us, you know, like being
able to like just to be in love. That's hard.
But when you're married, like it can get hard to
(26:59):
be to like just remember to be in love. Um. Yeah, okay,
So in the next few weeks, surprise your wife with
a date. Yeah. No, I'm I'm actively always looking for
ways to do stuff. Um, I even you know, like
it's embarrassing, but um, you know I get like ads
(27:20):
on TikTok for like cute like romantic gifts a lot
just great, you know, like like you know, oh my god,
if my boyfriend got me this, it would be so sweet. Um.
And so I even got her. And this is actually
funny because I kind of sometimes confuse our wedding anniversary
is it the June twenty So I actually got a
key chain, like a really cute heart shaped key chaining
(27:43):
with like the month of I guess it doesn't let me,
let me, let me google when you got married. And
but it's got like a circle around the day we
got married. Get married, so that you got married July.
That's seventy right, I gotta write on the key chain.
(28:10):
Please tell me you did, because I would be hilarious. Well,
I love it. You know what, I think a combination
of age and now three kids, Like I'm thirty seven. Okay,
I'm thirty eight. You can't talk about age because that's
not fair. Now you make me feel really old. Well no,
I just mean like you start to things. You know,
I have a lot of dates to keep in my head. Now,
(28:32):
I got to remember all the kid's birthdays. I gotta remember. Yeah, um,
well yeah, it's just a lot so security stuff, Like
there's a lot of things, a lot of numbers up. Yeah. Well,
you know what, as long as you're happy, it's all
that matters. And it sounds like you are. And keep
(28:53):
watching a Catfish on MTV. I'm excited that it's been
on for so long. Wednesday's eight o'clock, Wednesday's eight talk
and um, maybe I'll see you on like the All
Stars Dancing with the Stars, you know, like I thought
maybe it was gonna happen this year because it was
like thirtieth anniversary season. But alas here, here, we are here,
(29:15):
where we are still sitting here, not dancing waiting. All Right,
you're the best. Don't get catfish out there, and um yeah,
stop the scammers because that's not cool. You're the best.
See you Okay. Bye. Oh he's so funny. I love him,
(29:37):
Thank you bye. He legitimately did not know if it
was Junior July. He had not a clue. Glad we
can google it though. So sweet. Um, that was really funny. Um, okay,
let's take a break and then Catherine, we'll be back
with some questions. Alright, cat, what's up? Well? First thing,
(30:08):
I forgot to ask you last week? Oh did you
cry on New Year's I didn't. I didn't you ear.
I was just curious. I was gonna ask you. I
was gonna wait. No, I made my little goal list
and I it's like I did personal work and relationship
(30:32):
like you know, friends, whatever what I want for the
hearts this year? Um, And it was great. And then
I played ping pong, had some friends over and it
was it was really really great and I was like
so happy. I didn't cry. Good. I'm so glad. Yeah,
it was. It was great. I mean, how many years
(30:53):
has it been? Years? Years? Years? Hey, there's in your year.
Oh yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, I actually re listened
to that episode with um Suarie because it was that
meditation stuff was good and then just kind of her
voice is very calming to beause. I loved her. I
know's so cute. Um. But yeah, no, that was that
(31:16):
was That was a good way to go into the year.
But I did have was it the next day? Oh no, no, no, no,
there wasn't a but but I had like I had
a freak out because I'm like and I kind of
posted it. I didn't kind of post I posted it
on Instagram. It's it's kind of like the unknown year.
(31:36):
So that kind of freaked me out a little bit
because I was like, because you know, even though last
year everything happened whatever, but at least I went into
the year like as a family and married and like,
I have no clue what's going to happen this year.
I have no clue. But it's like kind of great
and oh in Annie downs um she she because I
DMed her. I was like, I love you, thanks for
that talking church. She loved to come on the podcast,
(31:57):
So we're going to get her on. Yeah, yeah, to
kind of talk about the Unknown near and all about it.
But it was just like that. It caused me a
teeny bit of anxiety. But also I'm kind of like
looking at it in a way to be like, Okay,
let's it's exciting. Let's make exciting things happen, and the
unknown near Steve the Unknown near? Yes, go for it.
(32:17):
How are how how are how are things? How's your
love life? Oh? Wow? Okay, Mark, Mark's done here. I
thought I would just you know, I'm just gonna go
for it. Didn't even ask me if I could. No,
you did not. Uh did you see my TikTok asking?
I feel like if we're posting, I could ask. It
(32:38):
was cute. It was cute. I'm too old to be
doing TikTok, but it was fun and I laughed a
lot and I had a good time. That's all that matters. Yeah,
there are quite a few questions about the TikTok or no,
I um, he got it really cost I went to
(32:58):
so I said, you know, I'm instagramming, I mean instagramming,
I'm podcasting today. If you guys have any questions. See,
I'm just asking what the people want to know. And
the questions were all all that, Yes, new Man, happy
for you did? Who's the boys her boyfriend? Who's the
guys in your stories? Hope he's your guy and makes
(33:19):
you happy? Who's the guy you're hanging with? How did
you know? They're like? Literally every single one? Who are
you climbing on? You do look really happy in all
of them. I appreciate it, all right. I guess that's
all I'm kidding. Driving people scared? Okay, that's fat. This
(33:41):
is a scary thing. Dating is scary. Yeah, it's very scary.
It's a scary world out there. Yeah you know, I know, right,
and you know it's just it's a's It's just it's
scary and I'm scared. I'll say that. Taking it a
day at a time, day at a time, good, Yeah,
all right, and I'll let you off. I do have
(34:01):
another question, another one I forgot to ask you. Okay,
what is the update on your friend? And invited Mike
to the party. Well, she heard the episode, great unfollowed
me on Instagram, um, and then posted stuff about like
real friends, Uh, put truth to you, um, you know,
(34:23):
speak the truth to you and fake friends just don't
call you out. And I think that was directed towards me,
But either way, I'm I kind of sat back with it,
and again I'm like, Okay, my real friends would never
have done that. Um, And so I think, I, um, yeah,
(34:45):
I mean that's kind of what it is. And you know,
thinking kind of like what Amy said to your therapist
where she was like, focus on the friendships that really
matter to you, and that one I just having a
really hard time with. And I just have no need
to have that kind of friendship where someone can say
the negative things about someone support me. It feels very
(35:08):
like fake supportive and then not say anything to me
because they were hurt and do something that's a little
like what was the word use, opportunistic or me? Yeah,
oh yeah, it felt very um oh I forgot the
word I used now, but yeah, I mean it was like,
that's just a friend would never do that. No. Well,
and you know, we talk a lot in therapy about
(35:29):
loyalty and loyal friends and even if there was an issue,
she should have come to you, not just invited him
and not told you. Yeah, that's not being a loyal
friend and again like that's fine, Like I have no problem. Again,
I'm sure we'll be at the same things with but
I mean that would have been our only friends that
we would have maybe done something. But I had again
(35:51):
had no idea since they had said such negative things
and hadn't spoken to him, So it just felt like, well,
you hurt me, so I invited him, Like what a
vindictive Yeah, So that's UM, And I just I don't
want to go into the year. I kind of send
my piece, UM, and I want to go into the
new year with focusing on the friendships that are really
(36:14):
important to me and cater to those and be a
good friend to those people, and continue to be a
good friend to those people. And I don't know what
about you and your friend. UM, I haven't heard back
from her, So what are you gonna do? I don't know.
I'm still struggling with that one. UM. Loyalty is a
(36:34):
big one for me. I'm just we're talking about that
a lot in therapy, and we talked more about it
today your therapy today more lord, UM. But yes, to
answer that, loyalty is just a very big one to me.
I think going back to family, I didn't feel like
my family was loyal and yeah, when when did that
(36:58):
come up today? No? But I mean like when did
you realize that literally literally breakthrough a little bit. Yeah, well,
we've been talking about loyalty with friends, but then it
just kind of hit me today that I didn't feel
like people in my life growing up are loyal like
my mom when I mean for a lot of Yeah,
(37:23):
So in like, what ways did you not feel like
loyal from your mom? Well, I didn't feel like she
had my back. I didn't feel like I could trust her. Um,
you know, I don't believe the things that come out
of her mouth still to this day. You know, we
have a fine relationship now, but there's no there's really
no trust there. And so when it comes out in
other people, when it comes out with friends, you know,
(37:46):
yeah it is And and there's a part of me
that just wants to email her back and go, Okay,
forget about it, forget I said anything, It's fine, don't
worry about it. I'm sorry, And that's always my like
go to and I still every day sometimes you're you know,
every whatever, I'm like, maybe I should just do that
to make everything okay. But I don't want to do
that this time, you know, I really don't. I just
(38:07):
want so I don't know. I don't know where that
will end up. But I never heard back from her
when we addressed it. So I did the first time,
but not the second time. So I don't know. If
it fizzles, it fizzles. You know, it's really interesting that
you say that piece because a part of me, I
was even a couple of days ago with the situation
with that friend of texting and being like, hey, I'm sorry,
let's sit down and talk, just because I don't want
(38:30):
And it's not that I don't want negative energy, but
I just I want her to like me and not
think that negative energy, yeah, or bad energy about me,
even though I know that, like I can sit and go.
I would love to hear how I heard her, even
it doesn't but yeah, I don't know's yeah, I mean,
(38:51):
we have mutual friends, and I constantly I'm like, I
hate that, Like, you know, our mutual friends may think
badly of me. But I'm like, you know what, I can't.
I can't at that. You know, there's always two sides
to every story. I understand that, um, but you know
it's tough, and I know that I'm gonna lose probably
some friendships over it. But you know, at the same time,
(39:11):
I'm not Catherine is not just going to go in
and say, Okay, I'm sorry, pretend to pretend like I
never said anything, and just sweep it under the rug.
I'm not going to do that. So if she wants
to come to me and say, hey, let's let's really
talk about this and let me apologize for what I did,
but here's why I did and here's what you did
or whatever, I'm fine with that same um. But you know,
(39:31):
we don't need to go in and just clear the energy.
To clear the energy, and in my opinion, I mean,
I think that we can be respectful and we can
be kind and we can be nice, but that does
mean we have to cave either. Yeah. I love that. Yeah,
I like that a lot. Anyway, good is looking good,
looking great, looking good. We're falling on our butts from
(39:54):
TikTok's we're learning and therapy ever get it? Like good
the did you see it? I didn't see the good one? Yeah,
I didn't post the good ones on Instagram. And then
we did another one too, and then we might try
the koala. I saw you post that. I don't know
what it is. I'm not like a koala. Someone damned
me and was like, you should try the koala. I
(40:14):
don't want to watch, so I gotta ask him if, if,
if we can try that one. But I have a
feeling I would fall flat on my face. But having
said that, you're the girl that can't do handstand against
the Nope, I can't do it. Yeah, okay um, we'll
be back next week. See them, see
Host
Jana Kramer
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