April 8, 2019 • 55 mins
What could be better than this...The Whine is live from the Napa Valley Wine Train!
Tanya Rad from Scrubbing In stops by to share her experience as a single woman in the entertainment industry and we hear about a Bachelor contestant she may have some sparks with.
Then Blake Hortsmann from The Bachelorette joins us, and Jana plays matchmaker with one of her close friends.
Plus, Jana and Mike help advise a listener whose partner is facing sex addiction.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Swine Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast.
The guys we like, literally no joke. We are on
a train, moving train, a moving train, drinking wine and
what Michael's drinking a bullet and sprite um and we
(00:23):
are joined if you don't know that laugh, We are
joined by Tanya ra O. Hey, what is the rat
stand for? My last name is Raddy sav of Each,
so it's d each. What is that serbian? Oh? Interesting? Serbian?
Like you were born there, born here, so that really
(00:45):
make you both. My parents are hund so like they
moved here. I was born here. So my last name
is very, very lengthy and so professional, holy, so professionally.
I was like, oh, email me my emails. Tanya bready
saw of you each at I Heart Media or whatever,
and people are like, how do you spell that? So
I just chopped it. Do you know how many people
(01:05):
are going to try to email you know with that
name that it does not exist, So don't even try.
I just I don't know. I love that. But we're
just so happy that you're going to be our co
host on today's wind down because we have a lot
to wind down with, but just to kind of get
everyone in the scope of like why we're here. We
are helping or we're a lot of um listeners are
(01:27):
here for the Red Cross. So we're here and um,
we're giving back and we're on a plane. I mean
on a plane. Jesus, we're on a train. If you
hear that little noise, that's why we're here. Um. So yeah,
it's gonna be fun. We're gonna drink and meet people
and have fun and give back to the Red Cross.
I'm super excited. I'm actually like really excited because I
(01:49):
get to see you guys, like in and out of
the studio when we're like transitioning and like we have
events here and there. But I'm really excited to just
like I kind of love when you said to Mike
in the car on the ride to the hotel, do
you want to tell our listeners what you said? Um?
I come full circle with Mike. I did not love
(02:10):
you in the beginning when I met you, So even
when you met me, you just when did you remember
the first time? Yes? And it's I don't use the
word hate. I didn't hate you, because it takes a
lot for me to hate somebody I did not know.
I did not hate you. But um, I had heard
some things. What did you hear? Um, I'm just from me,
from not from me or from like the word of mouth,
(02:33):
just word of mouth. But so that's like true, we've
been through yeah, not anything like that was like gossipy,
like he cheated blahah And so my guard was up
with you understandably. So um, but as I have like
just little things that you've done here and there, and
I don't even know if you know that you do
these things. You really are a gentleman. And I can
(02:56):
tell that you, um are kind and um just by
little little things that he does. And I know it
sounds really silly, but I pick up on these things,
and I really have come full circle. And it's been
a while since I've come full circle on you. But
I I expressed it to you today because I don't
know why. When was there a moment or was it
(03:18):
just over over time you kind of just was reflecting
on it, or was she strongly disliked me until today
when I said I'll get her bag up until today
on the airplane. But even even that, like even just
just offering to do that I think is really um,
it's sweet and it's kind and it's a it's a
(03:39):
gentleman thing, and um, I can tell that you're a
good guy. Yeah, I really genuinely mean that. I appreciate that.
I gotta be more consistent in that with my wife, right, honey. Yeah,
But nobody's perfect. No, it's it's it's just it's hard
with the person that you know. You see the good, bad,
(04:01):
and the ugliest with the person that you're with. Right
And I'm literally reading a book right now, or I
started reading. I didn't read the introduction. I'm I'm beginning
to read a book called How to Be an Adult
in a Relationship, because I mean, it's just the thing is,
you know, unfortunately Jana might feel like I'm I'm mean,
(04:22):
because sometimes I am because I don't know how to
express my feelings, and so I just kind of like holding,
holding and holding, and then I'm just like and then
I just kind of like bust out and then and
he'll say like, and the thing with him is like
he'll say really mean things right where it's like he
could have done a million nice things maybe that week
or that month, but like he says, like you're so
annoying and you as stupid questions. So then that's all
(04:44):
I hear. But and then I'm just I think it's
really honorable for both of you, honestly, because I think
that you are really open and honest about a lot
of things that go on in your relationship, and not
a lot of people are that way. And I think
it's really awesome because you know, there there are ups
and downs to being married and ups and downs to
being single, and not a lot of people talk. You know,
(05:06):
it's like we have this perfect marriage and it's you know,
rainbows and butterflies. And I think that's really awesome that
you guys are open about it. What do you We're
playing the kind of the question game on the on
the vand ride up. Let's play games. I was a
camp counselor that there was all in this car ride
together and it was great because what's the default, right,
(05:27):
Everyone's gonna go to their phones or conversation. I thought
the bus ride was fun though. And um, but you
asked us, you know what's the worst thing about marriage?
So I will mirror that question, say what's the worst
thing for you about being single? Um? I think for
me specifically, I crave companionship. I really love companionship and
(05:49):
I think there's something really beautiful And I have a
lot of companionship in my life, not obviously romantically yet,
but I have a lot of um friends that are
like family and co workers that are like family and
family that's family, you know, And so I have that.
But I think for for me, I really, um, I
think it's really cool to do life with somebody and
go through milestones with somebody and learn and grow with somebody.
(06:10):
So I think for me, I like out, um, big
things will happen in my life and I want to
be able to share that with somebody and have that
be long term, you know. So it's like that's what
I I That's the hardest thing for me for sure.
Who's the first person you go to if something exciting
or something bad happens in your life. Who's like the
first person you're gonna text or call or whatever? My mom? Yeah, yeah,
(06:33):
so you guys are really close. What's your relationship with
your dad? Very close to but he doesn't get all
of this life stuff like foreign and just men. Like
the same way with my parents, Like my mom understands
a little bit more. My dad's very old school, very
old fashioned, just like what yeah, like My dad didn't
really even realize who Ryan Seacrest was until it was
(06:54):
like it was like personality. Yeah, he's the cutest. Do
you love working for Ryan? I truly adore working behind
What's like the worst part about it though, if you
can say it the worst? Um, yeah, no, I'd say
the early mornings, but I mean you get that with like,
(07:15):
I mean, if I were to work on any morning show,
you know, Um, what's the worst part about working with him?
He chooses pen caps, which is like kind of really annoying,
the shoot up pens everywhere. That's funny. Yeah. Um, so
there's a specific someone on the train that we might
be interested in question mark exclamation point. So he was
(07:39):
a guest host on my podcast when I was out. Um,
he co hosted with Becca and our entire like scrubbing
in Facebook group was like running a muck about how
Blake is, like my dude. I never thought of him
that way, and he was what's his story? He was
on the he on Uh, he was on Becca's Oh
(08:02):
he was. I mean, he's so sweet. Would you be
super uncomfortable if I had him come on and then
kind of made it public? No, anything makes me uncomfortable.
But by the way, whatever happened with football guy, Yeah
he's a friend. What when when? Because he slid into
(08:26):
your DM ever since they went to the Super Bowl. Yeah,
it was like right before that actually, But do you
know what's actually really funny. I think it truly was
like a benign d M. Like there's no benign I
do not know, really know, there's if a guy slides
into a girl's it's like with like, babe, when you
slid into my d M. S is it was nine
strategically photo because all he said, mind you, that's how
(08:49):
he met was Twitter, so mind you. All he said
when I did follow him back eventually was thanks for
the follow back, So that could have just been you know,
but so what ever he said to you and he thanks, yeah,
So I mean there's clearly something even whatever he said
(09:09):
to you. I mean it was like a music thing.
I was like, oh, you know, I do song of
the day every day. Well, he had interest in something,
so it was just we had to do a better
follow up next time. Yeah, I followed. And I think
I'm also very naive when people flirt with me. I
don't get it, Like I don't put up on it,
so I was like, oh really. Like five months later,
I'm like, oh he did. I had no idea You're
like cool, bro, Wait, I could be a little redundant here.
(09:32):
And your listeners probably know when you guys first met who,
like was the pursuer? Oh my, I didn't know who. Yeah,
I didn't know who. Do know existed on this earth? No?
That's I mean, well until I slid in. Yeah, you know.
He kept favoriting a few of my things, and then
I was it was a board thirty. I was a
(09:53):
thirty year thirty years old, eating macaroni and cheese, having
a glass of wine. I'm scrolling through my Twitter and
I see this guy favoriting my stuff. I click on
his picture. I was like, oh, he's cute. And then
I followed him back and I saw he had a
blue checkmark too, and then he was a football player. Wait, okay,
so here's here's my question. Did Jamma play like? Did
(10:14):
you play cool? Were you kind of like seemed disinterested?
I kind of got him on the spot, so, like
I felt, I started, he I followed. I followed him,
then he shot back right away. As often as we
tell this story, it was not because I was strategically
planned it. I was with I was in my house
that I had in Baltimore at the time. I had
a couple of buddies that lived with me, and it
(10:36):
was a rainy Sunday afternoon. We're about to watch a
movie and she followed back. I told my buddy. I
was like, hey, Jannakramer just followed me back, Like what
do I do? And we were like teenage girls. That
became a we thing. What are we gonna say? And
he was like, my buddy Alex Blitz said this. He's like,
let's just watch this movie and then let's figure it
out and like do this together. I was like, all right,
(10:56):
ten minutes in the movie, I was like I can't.
I have to message your back. And so whole movie
I wasn't paying attention. We were just d M and
back and forth. So mind you that was happening. And
then four days later he flew out to one of
my shows. But then I would I did some kind
of kind of crazy things I FaceTime in the second
day because um and okay, okay. So that obviously didn't
(11:16):
turn you off, No, not at all, And it's what's
funny is So that was on a Sunday. We talked
on Twitter. Monday she gave me your number. Tuesday, Uh,
we talked on the phone and then she was like, hey,
you know, let's FaceTime and she kind of hit me
randomly with it, right, So I love a rogue FaceTime. Yeah,
I was like, what, I was at the dog park
(11:37):
with my dog in Baltimore, like an inner city, so
I'm like, hey, like, I'm in the dog park, Like,
give me a few minutes. I booked at home. I
live like a mile from the dog park, booking it
with my with my dog. Get back, changed my shirt,
put a hat on it, probably did some push ups
before FaceTime, which really doesn't do anything. But I just
felt better about myself. And then we FaceTime and yeah,
(11:59):
then what. It's so funny because I tell people that
all the time because they're like, I always say, I'm
like a lot, I'm I'm allowed personality, and everyone says
you need to let the guy pursue you, and I'm like,
but I don't think I do. Like I want someone
obviously that wants me the same, but I'm like, I'm
just gonna be me. That's part of what attracted me
(12:21):
to Jana so quick. Was like, she's just a normal person,
just like everybody else. And she's just like, yeah, hey,
we're hitting this off. You want to come see me
in Chicago. I was like it was nine o'clock at night.
I was like, sure, house tomorrow, like first thing in
the morning. He's like, yeah, let's do it. Well, I'm
glad you invested in me, babe. And you know what
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(13:26):
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dot com. Okay, so we want to let you all
know that Mike and I are going on a podcast tour.
We've got three dates coming up in May, so we're
doing Virginia, Boston, and New York and we're so excited
about it. So basically we're going to wind Down with
you guys and then you're going to get an exclusive concert.
(13:48):
I'm gonna play a bunch of songs and it's going
to be a really fun time. So we we want
you guys to come out. Get your tickets at Janet
Cramer dot com because it's going to be a blast.
Come on out. It's gonna be a great time. Anything.
People are going to hear songs that they have that
you haven't released yet. Yeah, I'm gonna be singing songs
that I have never sang before, new songs. So it's
going to be a lot of fun. And again, the
(14:09):
podcast doesn't actually it's not going to be like live,
so people you only get to hear it if you're there,
that's it. So it's going to be very exclusive, be
a part of it. Were we want to be very interactive. Yeah,
if you've heard our last live podcast, that's what you're
going to get. But this one is just going to
be more intimate and you guys can't actually hear. But
if you live in Boston, Virginia, New York, at the
(14:30):
show just for you. So it's gonna be fun. Janna
Kramer dot com, get the tickets, come on now. Okay, So, hi, hi, good.
How are you so? The last time I saw you,
I was super pregnant with Jason and you, um you
were single. I was, I am. You're still saying, I'm
still I think that's what you're getting. Yeah, us catch
(14:54):
the chase. Um, this is gonna be the grilling match.
What what kind of women? And do you want like
if you could have your what are the top three
qualities and a woman? Um? I love like an independent woman?
You know, I want? I want? That didn't take a
long seconds. I'm so sorry. Excuse me, no, I just
(15:18):
um cough, excuse me so sorry? Go ahead, like independent woman? Yeah,
I always say that I want a woman who doesn't
need a man, but wants a man. That's kind of
like what I I'm attracted. I have a lot of
strong women in my life, so I'm attracted to that.
So you have sisters, Yeah, I have a sister. Well,
I have over stepsister, my sister and my mom. Yeah.
Uh so, yeah, I guess I gravitate towards you know,
like I guess strong independent women. So that's something I'm
(15:40):
definitely looking for. And I like, I like a sense
of humor, but I like, I do like dry sense
of humor, kind of kind of like you like the
office parks are rack Yes, totally h big office guy,
You're welcome. I don't understand that humor, but yeah, I
love that and witty. You know. I like a girl
who can like snap clap back a little bit, you know.
And do you know the girl? Do you're right? Never? No,
(16:03):
never met her? You've never met How old are you?
I turned thirty in two weeks? Oh, two weeks okay,
and howld a, Oh that's great. I will tell you
the dynamics. So he's younger than me. Um, And I
actually like that dynamic. It's good and especially because you
know Tany and I are very you know, independent, strong,
(16:26):
strong women I have. So I was on jury duty
a couple of weeks ago. Blake filled in for me.
Can you tell us about the case, but I actually
can now. I think it was so gnarly like it sounded,
remember you talk about Yeah, I couldn't talk about it
at the time. Open. No, it was like good little office.
(16:48):
It was like a really gnarly case. I didn't end
up picking me. It was a three day jury like selection.
Why didn't they pick you? Did you do the things
where you're very opinionated and then you don't get back? No?
But do you know what's so crazy is the judge
like this one man clue really was doing that, Like
he was just saying everything to like not get picked.
The judge picked him to be an alternate, so he
had a stay on the trial. But he didn't even
get his He didn't even get to vote on it
(17:10):
because he could tell that he was literally was like
saying everything to get out of it. Every literally it
was so funny. So he picked him to be an alternate.
So I didn't do that. I was very honest, but
um uh, it had like it was like I had
to do like b DSM websites and like stalking and
like gnarly things that have. Like I was like, but anyways,
(17:36):
that being said, so Blake filled in on scrubbing in.
I don't know what you said. Actually I listened to it.
It was really our listeners were obsessed with you, and
then they were like, now they're convinced that, like you're
my guy. Like yes, they're like Blake, So now I'm convinced.
So I just feel like, I know you live in Denver, right,
(17:58):
so how could we make just I think one day
at least one day, because here's the deal. You have
to put in, like the effort, you know, because Michael
lived in in Baltimore when I first met him, So
you know, at times I thought this isn't gonna work.
He lives in Baltimore. I'm not moving to Baltimore. But
I would have. I would have though, I really truly
(18:20):
would have, but at the time we needed to be
in Nashville. But I'm just saying, like, for y'all situation,
I think you owe its right now. You have a situation.
The best part is we get literally we get here
and Janna like looks at you should points at you?
I do. I did the heads like, yeah, I was like,
what about everybody? I know what I'm just saying. I
(18:40):
think you guys are both attractive people, You're both nice people,
and I think you guys have the same values and
the same we'll go to dinner tonight, not like everybody else.
I do have a question though, because of Tanya's work,
is that something where you be comfortable? I know, like
you aired your life out on the Bachelor, but you
want more a private life now or do you want
(19:03):
like because she's obviously would have to talk about your
relationship in y'all's date, so would you? Is that for
a guy? You don't want that to be talked about.
I think that might be hard time for you. I
think guys might feel a little I think if you
have boundaries around it, I have it. It's interesting, so yes, yeah,
(19:24):
but it actually has never been the reason why something
hasn't worked out like most guys and and I do
talk a lot about my relationships, but there are boundaries,
like I don't share everything. And Ryan's actually really good
about not pressing on the topics because I went through
a really bad breakup when I was working on the show,
(19:44):
and he was really really like when I tell you
the most gentlemanly, like just the best ever about like
being respectful of letting me share what I wanted to
share and not what I didn't want to share. So
I do have boundaries and I don't share everything off obviously,
but I do share, right, And how would that be
for you? Yeah? That I mean like you just like
you said, I was on the bat shot and I
(20:05):
talked about everything. You're not put it all out there,
so it doesn't it wouldn't bother me. Now that's not
that's like a deal breaker or anything like that. Well,
so that's good. So we can put a check next
to that question. Mike, what about you? You You got any
questions for black Good? That's my only question? Like how
many times it's my Instagram hand? Perfect key and pee? Okay?
(20:28):
Because I just hear you always say whenever there's a Blake,
it's like a bullock. Yeah, I mean everyone, it's like universal.
Yeah that a run. I don't know that one either. Yeah.
A lot of people that are surprising come down to
you had no idea. They're like, what does your handle mean?
And I was like, I put I put the skin
up finally, and I was like, look, I'm sired of
a d n asking what my name means? Do you
(20:49):
want kids? Yeah? And do you want to get married? Yes?
All of you? What is your timeline? You know what?
I've never been the guy that's had like how to
be married by hand and have a family by then.
Like I've never been that guy. So there's it. Yeah,
there's no time line at all. I mean I like this.
I think you guys could be I do I really
like it? Do you like it? I mean, yeah, that
was a test. I'm not putting any pressure on the
(21:11):
appreciate pressure there. I just say they should have a dinner,
a quiet dinner by themselves on this movie train in
a corner. I don't know. I think you'd be really cute,
but that's just my personal opinion. How are you feeling?
Do you feel any do you feel any jitters? Like
I feel like, well, it's so funny because I'm telling
(21:32):
you that it was like an overwhelming really yeah, and
then what's even funnier. So we were reading all that
back when I came back the next week and I'm
like big into like astrological signs, and I was like okay,
just for know. I looked up. We looked up. We
tried to figure out what your sign was, and you're
my perfect match sign. Why spoken? I mean there's something
(21:55):
to that that there will say there really truly is
something to that because your tourists, right, yeah, I think tourist.
I'm like on the verge from what I've heard, like
on the aries tourist cusp. Yeah, I looked and we
looked into it. Did you really love Becca? Yeah? You did?
I did. Yeah, I did. It was the lover No,
(22:19):
my wife, that was No, that's good, straight to the point. Um, No, yeah,
I did. I think I think I was one of
the unique. I knew, like right pretty much pretty summing
going after our first after our first one, I want
to remember laying in bed, going, this is gonna be
really hard, you know. I was like, I'm gonna fall
for this girl. So I knew pretty early on. Yeah,
and then you were you got pretty upset to you
got jealous. Didn't you almost leave like you had a
(22:41):
like I can't do this. No, I didn't leave or anything.
I didn't like threatened to leave or anything. But yeah,
it was really hard for me. I we fell in
love with each other super early in the process, so
then I had to sit there and watch her follow
with somebody else, which it's not easy. Honestly, I don't
know how you guys do that. I could not do it.
I would I would, I would just be all I
would be crying. I'd be actually, I would just cry
(23:04):
the entire time. And you don't have anything to do,
so all you do is sit there and think about it,
and then you talk to three stories face a therapist
like that's your therapist, and you sit there and talk
to him for hours about it. So, yeah, it's brutal. Yeah,
everybody has to. Like people have told me to go
on the batchlor and I was like, I genuinely don't
think my heart is built for it. I don't think
I couldn't well. And that's the thing is, I will
never judge anybody for what they do in that environment,
(23:25):
because it's it's such a ridiculous environment, Like you can't
judge somebody who they are off of that what you
see on television or even when I'm in It's like,
I wouldn't judge somebody until afterwards. I'd have to talk
to him and meet him afterwards. Yeah, everybody reacts definitely
in that environment, I feel like, I mean, it seems
like this like a lot of you guys like you
know today and stuff. You guys are really close, like
all the guys are on the show together and everything
like that. Like does that really like do you leave
(23:46):
with friends that you'll probably be friends with the rest
of your life? Yeah? I think I definitely have. I
don't know for everybody, but I definitely will. You there's
no TV, no internet, no phone, like nothing. You complearly
cut off, so all you do is talk like all
you don't talk, you really get to these people. Uh
and me and Jayson, So I I said, people early
on kind of knew that me and Becca had a
really good connection. So I kind of distanced myself and
(24:06):
people distanced himself from me. I still was able to,
you know, get close to the guys, but not as
close as when I left the show. And then me
and Jason, when me Jason Colton, all you know, we
signed contracts to be the Bachelor, and when Colton was picked,
you know, I remember text and Jason and I was like,
let's go. You know, we got a whole let's go
experience all this craziness, and we did a lot of
events together and that's what we got super super close.
(24:27):
And so that's the thing is like after the show,
you hang out a lot and you get even closer
even post shows. I love that. Um, well, Blake, thank
you for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. We're
now going to talk about you just gonna want to
do a podcast here and have have a beat you
and I, oh, thank you so much. All right, thanks guys,
(24:53):
And he was a fan fan favorite, like are are
scrubbing and listeners they like they're very vocal and they're like,
we will we will only take Brad Garski and Blake
like they only Yeah, they love when Brad's on. So
they're like, whenever you guys need to feeling, it needs
to be there Brad or Blake. Yeah. So what do
you think by Blake yet? Okay, he's gone, he's left
(25:17):
the train, he's left the trains off the train. I
think he's a good guy. There's a butt, No, there's
no butt, okay, but well the butts. He lives in
Denver sounds like says that he lives in Denver, But
that doesn't matter. I'm with you. It doesn't like, it
doesn't matter until you get to know the person. It's like,
would you move, like would he move to Los Angeles?
(25:38):
Let's pause that really fast, because you know what matters
is finding a good organic cotton tampons and pads and like,
oh my gosh, I have Lola in right now. Are sorry? Yes?
I do, mis like I did not need to know that.
Oh she's showing us. Okay, So Lola is a female
(25:59):
founded company offering a line of organic cotton tampons. Wow,
there it is pads liners, but she just I had
just said, there it is like you pulled it out,
but she pulled out an actual tampons out of her back.
Still still, so they are natural and easy to feel
good about. Um, I don't know, tiny, it's inside of
you right now, so I mean, I just know I
had to tell you. I was shocked when I found
(26:20):
out that that tampons and pads and all these things
are bleached, like chemically bleached, and then we put them
inside of body. Yes, it's actually disturbing. So yeah, I
use Lola. I'm I'm happy, happy consumer. I think what
I love about them too is they actually deliver. You
can customize your subscription. So for me personally, this is
maybe t M I, but I like only using Super.
(26:41):
So what does that mean? Um, it's the absorbancy of
which you need absorban it's more observant. But if not,
like you know you have you can customize because other
things it's like, oh, you have Super and Regulars, and
well want to really use the regular. So with Lola,
I'm able to customize it. And then I also know
and like you might have like one really heavy day
(27:02):
and then the rest really lights yes, exactly, So if
someone has that, then they only maybe need like five
super right exact exactly, so I know you do. And
then when the box shows up or when I'm getting hormonal,
you'll know that my periods just around the corner. So
like my alarm clock when it shows up at the
door staff, oh my gosh, here we go. But here's
(27:24):
the problem. Then he'll go, oh, that's why she was emotional.
Yeah it makes sense. Okay, So Lola has been great
for me. It's one less thing to worry about. They
arrive at my door right before I need them, which
is a nice reminder of where I am in the month. Anyways,
Forty of all subscriptions visit my lola dot com and
entered Janna. When when you subscribe, that's my lola dot com.
And when you subscribe, just enter or um or Tania.
(27:49):
I don't know you know Becca? Our coldes always Becca.
All right, let's get like real deep. I mean, I
have some more like marriage questions. Are you doing? Yeah? Okay,
what's up for somebody that I I do? Like, I
want to get married and I want to have a family.
That's the ultimate goal for me. With Blake, I'm not looking.
(28:11):
He reminds me of Abbey, who's one of my best
friends back home. Is he a good guys? Honestly, I'm
married with two kids one kid. I've never closed off
to anything. So like, if Blake were to be like,
let's actually go out, I would be like, I'm totally down.
I think he should just give it one dinner. Do
you have his number? Yes? Okay? Then just text him
(28:33):
okay and be like, hey when when you're in not
late next we should for real get some dinner. Yeah,
put it out there. If he doesn't respond, well, then
find f him right who needs him? But at least
put it out there. Yes, I also don't know. I
think the thing with me is like I'm very much
not in the headspace of like I don't need to
just like hump around that makes sense or data around.
(28:53):
I don't do that anymore. Like I just have not
built for it. Um. But I'm also because it hurts
or I'm not physically I'm not emotionally alright, you gotta
literally with yes, yes, sorry, I'm not emotionally built for it. Um.
So I don't know if he's in that phase of
like wanting to like, wait, what what about Ryan? That's
(29:17):
like my brother, but like he's single again, this is correct,
but it's like how many years have you guys worked together? Eight? Right,
and how many things have you guys, like how much
you know about each other? Like every too much? Yeah,
it's it's it's literally like a brother sister relationship. And
I know it's funny because people all right, well, I
(29:40):
just had that epiphany and I was like, oh, one
of my girlfriends was like, unless we came out of
like our mom's vagina together, you are not my brother
and we can date. And I was like, I know,
I get that, but I think that it's just it's
too far gone and he's my boss and like I
like the relationship that we have. Okay, all right, Yeah,
and they just broke up who I never even know
(30:01):
it was a model or something like that. Um, he will,
I think officiate my wedding though you Yeah, I love that.
Back to back to what you were saying, okay about marriage, Yes,
how do you know when a guy's in that place,
he'll show up. He'll show up, he'll action the action.
(30:23):
They can say all they want, like oh, by one kids,
I want that, I want to be in a relationship.
But unless they're showing up. Because like dated around, how
did you know that this was different? Because I actually
wanted to work on it? So like because he had
left up in the very beginning of our even when
we were dating, And if he didn't actually really want
(30:43):
to work on it, he could have easily been like, yeah, right,
whatever next, and I could have too, I'd have been like, oh,
he's screwed up next, But I didn't. I was like,
I really liked I really liked him. Yeah, and I
and my actions showed that I was willing to do
with my actions proved to her that this was different, Like,
(31:03):
this wasn't just some girl I want to date for
a while, because of it's so easy to get divorced
nowadays you work at it. It's hard. It sucks. Some
days it literally sucks. I mean I have a girl's
group chat message where we're sometimes we're just like why
is this so hard? Like I am I'm so not
(31:24):
with my husband? Or this just sucks. Sometimes you know
it's hard, But isn't there something so beautiful about the
fact that, like, oh it's great sixty you can look
back at all these like beautiful memories that I hope
so like you, like you mentioned earlier when you talked
about like companionship, right, like that's where Jane and I
just really appreciate just the trenches of what we're doing
(31:46):
right now with two kids, busy life, a lot of travel.
It's just like, you know, how how do we do this?
But we're doing it, you know, regardless at the end
of the day, we know we're together, we're going to
be together, we're union out, we're doing life. It's like,
you know, that's that's the companionship, Like the depth of
it that it's you know, you really want like you
(32:07):
have like a teammate, And I think that there's something
so special about that. I love that I really it
is cool. I always say, like in the times of
chaos is when I love him the most, it's because
I'm like, we're here doing this together. Yeah, because we
we both are empathetic to how hard it is. So
when it gets hard, you know, we both want to
help each other and pick each other up and reassure
(32:27):
one another like, hey, we're doing this. We are kids
are healthier, kids are alive, they were providing for them.
So when you think of it in that kind of
point of view, you're like, hey, you know what, We're okay.
So do you guys hang do you guys hang out
with like other married couples. Yeah, it's very hard to
have single friends. So I have a single friend Sarah. Well,
(32:48):
she shouldn't say she's single. She she's with boyfriend, right, Yeah,
she's with boyfriend. She's with boyfriend friend, she's with boyfriends
for six years and yes, um yeah, but it's still
like she still doesn't understand you know what I mean.
It's still hard. Yeah. Actually, one of my mentors in
life is Devon Franklin, and I read all of his books,
and one of him the rules and his marriage, is
(33:09):
we do not ask our single friends for relationship advice.
You can't, isn't that right? Yeah? We have their book. Wait,
it's great. It's a great book. It's a great book. Yeah,
they're awesome. Hey can I read the Speaking of friends though? Um?
This is from Becky, my best friend and my husband.
My husband. I have been together almost twelve years now,
(33:30):
and the first eight years were full of indiscretions on
his part. Most were just him talking to girls but
never any action. But then four years ago someone walked
into our lives and knew exactly how to play us
to her benefit. The person became my best friend and
even started dating my brother. Before she came into our lives,
everything was good, but then we started fighting way more
than normal. I started to pick up on little cues
and she was trying to make me mad at times
(33:51):
or mad at him. Turned out she was doing the
same things to him. She wanted him and would do
whatever it took. Bottom line, she got what she wanted
and I discovered a four month of fair between my
supposed best friend and my life partner. We are four
and a half years out, but I still think about
it at least once every single day. I don't know
that I'll ever be able to fully move beyond the situation.
It feels so personal you and might inspire me, but
(34:12):
I don't know that my wounds will ever heal. I'm
curious what you guys think about how close is it?
How how close is okay with your spouse's best friend.
Tongu is like, I don't know, well, I think what's interesting.
So Janna and I kind of touched on this, and
(34:33):
this is again, I mean, we don't really hold back
on this podcast. So for Janna and kind of her
love language and what she appreciates is to be candidates,
like say, hypothetical, if Janna ever cheated our relationship, it
would probably be with somebody that we're close to, because
(34:54):
she likes to be intimate with people. She likes to
know them, and that's where she like Garners like love
and appreciation and afection, where me um intimate avoidance. So
for me, it could never be someone that like we
were friends with or we knew or because that would
be super uncomfortable for me. You would have to be
completely a complete stranger that I don't know you know,
(35:15):
So it's you know, it's that whole dynamic is interesting,
and for I mean, the closeness. So I say that
because yes, because of my pastor, Jenna still you know,
wants to make sure there's boundaries with everyone in our life,
which is completely understandable, you know, but I think she
(35:35):
still acknowledges that too in the back of her mind,
like this would like I don't think he would ever
step that far because of him being so uncomfortable. Now,
I think you just have to examine that relationship well,
like I would be uncomfortable, like, yes, Julie is my
best friend, but I wouldn't feel comfortable if you and
Julie were like, we're going to go have lunch, I'd
be like, like, I think there's certain boundaries that you
(35:57):
have to have with and I trust Julie with my life,
like and she's she's freaking watching her kid right now,
you know, I mean like that, and she and she
was one of the rare few from the very beginning
was very supportive. Yeah, she was like yeah, so, but
I mean just I mean, okay, for example, like our
friend you know that we're going to have in our neighborhood,
(36:17):
our new neighborhood friends, it's like one on one. I
still just think one on one other sex is just
not I'm with you. I don't see I don't see
why like what there would never I don't see where
there would ever be a scenario why that would have
to happen. Yeah, I have a lot of married friends
and I like to if I ever need to text
like the guy, it's always just something that when the
(36:40):
girl can't know if it's like other than that, it's
always text the girl always or a group chat. And
it's funny because we have one of my bosses is
a man, and I'll like just send him like whenever
I have like a topic idea, it'd be like nine
o'clock and e ten pm or whatever, and I always
tell him I'm like, I feel awkward texting you at
like ten pm, and I cause you're married with kids,
(37:01):
you know, um. But he's like, no, send it. But
I still feel like because I know that he's married,
and it's like I'm so not like that, but I
still get like that. I feel like there should be boundaries.
Could you ever see yourself? Oh? First of all, I
just want to say, Becky, I'm really sorry, and just
I applaud you guys for trying. But it'll just take
It's just gonna take time, and your triggers are going
(37:23):
to be there, and hopefully he can hopefully he can
be empathetic to your triggers and respect boundaries. Yeah, because
that's that's that's gotta cut deep and get that girl
out of your life, the other girl. Yeah. By do
you think you could ever? I mean, here's the thing
when I A would say this, do you think you
could ever? I think anyone's capable of anything. But do
you do you think you could ever cheat in a relationship? Uh? No?
(37:46):
What if you put yourself in the situation that it's
I mean, you know, I like it's actually like a
flaw of mine, Like I'm like brutally loyal, Like I
can't even like it's like it's bad. It's bad. So
it's not bad. That's great, it's great. But it's also
like a little bit of the flow because I feel
(38:07):
like sometimes I'm I stay in relationships even friendships that
I don't yeah, yeah, because I'm just like I've known
you for so long, I'm loyal to you, you know.
Um So no, I don't. I don't think that I could.
And I've been cheated on before, and it's like, I mean,
it's just broke me and I'm also cancer so I'm
very very sensitive. Um, do you can we do this?
(38:28):
Top one bed um married to sex addict? So, Kelly,
what do I want? We can say you guys are
just like really cute, Like I just like, like this
is so creepy. I just like watching you guys like
it's really sweet. And I actually want to sidebar with
you a little bit about sex addiction. Okay, well this
(38:51):
is great because we're going to go on this. Our
next email, Mary to a sex addict. I found out
in August. My husband is a sex addict and for
our three years of marriage has been meeting up with
women he met on sex apps. He said. Um, he
has said he doesn't want to lose our family and
wants to get better. We don't have financial means for
him to do an impatient program, which we again sidebar.
We understand it's it's incredibly expensive. Um. We tried couples
(39:13):
counseling and stopped going when he said it was making
things worse. After listening to your podcast last week, he
actually looked into information Mike mentioned and has joined an
essay a group, yes, Um, that you call into He
is trying but I still have zero trust in him.
Most of the time, I feel like I hate him
and would rather be alone. Do these feelings ever end?
Or is our marriage just doomed? How do you trust
(39:35):
someone when they have become a pro at deceiving you
and spent years successfully doing it? Wow? What an email? Um?
First of all, I'll say, Kelly, Um, you know if
he wants to have someone to talk to, because calling
me calling meetings are great? You did calling meetings when
(39:58):
you can in person meetings or you've an better because
it's all about um creating intimacy with other human beings
who have the same issues or suffer like that he does.
If he wants to contact me, Janna Kraman, I heart
media dot com. Yes, and reference that you're Kelly and
you wrote this email and and um, him and I
(40:19):
can get in touch. Um Man, that's a lot. I
will say to Kelly, you just found out, so you
gotta give yourself some time. Um. Every other day I
considered do I just leave? I'm so miserable, But you
have to give it. I gave it a year. That's
what my therapist said. Give it a year. Um. And
then after a year, you don't think about it as much.
(40:42):
I still think about it every day, but it's not
the impact is not as strong as it was. You
don't think about it as much. If he's doing the work, yes,
and he has to show up and do the work.
And but I a plot him though, for even doing
finding the essay groups and that's going to change a
lot in him. So good on him, and keep encouraging
him to do that, which is that's just hard. That's
(41:03):
when she just found out. That's hard. It's hard to encourage. Yeah,
I'm not I'm not even saying, hey, honey, yeah, I
keep going not like that. But allow him if he
has to, if you have to reschedule something or kind
of schedule around that to accommodate, like, allow him to
do that type of deal tany what was your question?
I'm like getting emotional about it because like when you
(41:26):
found out, were you guys already married at the time,
we were married for over a year. Had if you
had found out about his sex addiction when you were dating,
would you have gone out? Good question, that's a great question.
If I would have found out about the affair before
we got married, I wouldn't have married him. That's so
(41:48):
that's the question, because but you're so, that's that's that.
But if I knew he, if he if he had
a sex addiction before we got married, I wouldn't not
I don't think I wouldn't not date him because if
he showed me that he was working, like, hey, I've
(42:11):
been sober for two years. I'm kidding I really because
I really liked some this guy, and it was just
like I could I was like, I don't think I
can ever. Did he tell you that he was a
sex addict a little bit ago? That's you know what?
That's yeah, I was that's hard. And I when Gene
(42:34):
was saying that, I brought that thought to my head.
Is I know plenty of guys in program who we'll
start dating and get to that point in the relationship
where they have to own that. And I've known several
several guys who the significant other couldn't handle it, which
is totally is totally fine, and then some that have
been able to Um, how long was he sober for? Not?
(43:00):
Not long? Was he sober? No? I don't think so.
So he was in still active addiction. So then then
I would say, no, I couldn't do that either. But
if he was saying, I'm in recovery and this is
how long I've been recovering four and I do these
meetings that would make me feel safer. And I would
have explored still because I I believe I would. But
(43:23):
if he was still an active addiction, then there's no,
that's that's insanity. Yeah. Yeah, I don't feel bad about
not taking that on because I don't think anybody I'm
surprised he admitted that but isn't doing but isn't like
because I like found out a different way. Oh did
(43:43):
you cheat? We don't know the person. Um No, No
believe in sex sex addiction. It's funny because I didn't
at the time. I really didn't. I thought it was
an excuse for bad behavior. Um So that's kind of
(44:03):
what I like chalked it up to, you know. And
and for me, I'm just like so on the other
side of that at the moment, because like I'm just
telling you guys, like I can't have unattached sex, Like
I've been very vocal about that. So I was like,
if this were to ever be something like I don't,
I don't. That mindset is so foreign to me, you know.
(44:25):
Um So it sucked because it's like, you know, and
you don't meet people that you hit it off with
all all the time. M hmm, that's a lot. I mean,
but again I don't Unfortunately in your situation, that's one
(44:47):
of those that almost validates it as an excuse, Like
I can see how that would feel, like, all right,
that's just an excuse for bad behavior because you guys
are dating I don't know for how long, but obviously
not that long, and you discover whatever it was, did
you confront him and did he admit to it? Yeah?
It was. It was just tough because I think, um,
(45:13):
I think that uh, had I not found out it
wouldn't it wouldn't have been a conversation for a lot longer.
That makes sense. Yeah, well, you know what, now we're
gonna just I mean, I don't know, how do you
even know? Okay, just don't don't. I hope you don't
(45:35):
beat yourself up at all for feeling bad about leaving
that because he was unhealthy. Yeah, yeah, he period, So
I can't. I wouldn't expect anybody who's newly dating somebody
to sign up for that when they're not in recovery,
So don't. Yeah, don't feel bad about that in any way,
(45:56):
shape or form um. But again, to touch on that email, Kelly,
reach out to Janna at I Heart Na Kramer, I
heart media dot com and I'll be more willing to
talk to your husband and uh here him out. You've
been wanting to be a sponsor, so maybe that will
be your first. That's awesome. M thank you for being
(46:17):
a guest on our show. Miss Toanny Rad. I love you,
I love your energy, I love what you bring and
thanks for opening. And y'all listen to Tonny Rad. She
has an amazing podcast with Becca Tilly. It's called Scrubbing
In on the Heart Radio podcast app. So y'all listen
to her podcasts because it's really good. And I just
love you so thank you. Thanks for having me. We're
gonna have you back on all the time. Um okay, Tanya,
(46:39):
I know that we said bye to you, but um,
Mike's like, wait, where's Tanya? I have one more question
I want to ask our he said, come back. Come.
I was in the back of the train with Blake.
Oh you are how is it going? That's where of
the bathroom doors? Lock? Just kidding, No, I did have
a question to get back on our topic that we
were talking about that you're so open and vulnerable about.
(47:01):
My question is, say that the person that you were
dating or beginning to have a relationship with I told
you that he was an alcoholic? Would your how would
your response differ? Interesting? It is interesting because I have
also had that same situation. I've had that situation happen. Yes,
(47:22):
And what's interesting about that is that did not, um
did not shake me at all because, um, what do
you think that I don't I don't know. The reason
why that ended was because other reasons that had nothing
to do with the fact that he didn't drink alcohol,
but I was willing to like but he was sober? Yes, yeah, yeah,
(47:47):
So if he was, if he was still if he
had said again same to just a mirror the scenario,
if he said, Hey, you know, I'm an alcoholic. I've
been sober a week or something, you know, whatever it was,
to mirror the situation you're in, would you still kind
of be more accepting of him being an alcoholic as
opposed I know, it's it's a very interesting question. And
(48:08):
the answers, yes, why why do you think that is?
I think because and I don't I don't know. But
for me, alcohol is so like minutia in life, do
you know what I mean, Like take it or leave it?
Like I like to drink, but I don't necessarily need
a partner. I don't I don't have to drink exactly.
(48:29):
So for me, it was kind of like take it
or leave it, whereas sex to me is so intimate
and so personal and so like such a big part
that that was like a uh, a big trigger for
me for sure. And I think that's I asked just
(48:50):
because you know, obviously, the twelve step program is universal
for any addiction, and part of my whole motivation to
speak about this more openly is to move try to
move the needle a little bit into social acceptance. Having
said that, I think we're even in ten or fifteen
years when society is more comfortable with sex addiction, I
(49:13):
think there's still going to be that layer of even
if someone is proposed with your situation, one is a
little bit more tolerated or accepted than the other because
there's not. Again, sex is so personal, and it's something
that when you're an in a committed relationship, you're in
the understanding that it's just with each other. So no
matter what, no matter how accepted sex addiction becomes, it's
(49:36):
still going to be part of it, which I think
is okay. So it's interesting because so I was telling
you guys, I used to be able. I would have
unattached sex all the time, and I was always getting hurt.
And it was like until I read The Weight by
Devon and Megan when I realized and I met him
and I was like, I'm going to make this commitment.
(49:57):
I'm not going to have sex outside of a committed relationship.
It's been a minute for me. Oh wow, so you
still haven't. Nope, it's been a long time, and but
it's been the most fulfilling because I used to give
sex expecting something bigger in return, and when that didn't happen,
(50:20):
I would just be I would just be all in
my head of like, why does he not want to
be with me? Why does like? Why all these questions?
And now that that's not even on the table for me,
that's not even an option until he's committed. I haven't
had those feelings, and those are the feelings that make
me feel really really bad about myself. And I might
(50:40):
have nothing, might not have anything to do with me,
but I would always take them personal from an outsider standpoint,
just because you're here and you don't you know, obviously
know a lot about the addiction is there? And do
you have any questions that you that come to mind
about it that you want to ask? Mike kind of yeah,
but I obviously, like I feel like I don't want to. Also,
I feel like I'm I'm open if whatever you want
(51:05):
to ask, I haven't. It's not like I haven't heard it.
So if if you okay, so that that that's an
addiction of yours and you are married, correct, so you
can stay committed to somebody knowing like I want to
foster this relationship for the long haul. This is just
something that I'm dealing with. So do you are you
(51:25):
not open with it? What do you mean? Like, if
you have a thought of something, do you share that
with Janna? Oh, like if he has a thought of
acting out or a thought of corner. Yeah, that's something
that you know. I've brought to Jannah's attention because she
asked and she said, you know, I want to know,
like what you struggle with. Um. Having said that, it's
(51:48):
it's hard to do because still Janna has accepted, understood
a lot of this addiction. But at the same time
it's hard to explain that, hey, maybe this came into
my head, but it's not because I don't want you.
It's not because I don't it's just we had a
discussion about this recently, Jan and I. I was like,
the thing is, those feelings that come up, it's not
(52:10):
necessarily about It's not I want to do those things.
It's I'm trying to handle the feelings that I'm feeling
in that moment, whether it's anxiety or stress, or or
not good enough or whatever. My default from my entire
life was to go to sex or two whenever I
felt those feelings, was to think about this, or was
to go to this certain place. So now retraining my
(52:32):
brain and retraining my body to not react that way,
you know, it's it's inevitable, it's going to happen. But
having been sober for the last year, the lust of
the mind does go away, it does fade, So do
you stop feeding it. That's a thing, like if you
think about chocolate every day, like and then you have
(52:52):
to start training your mind like that to not think
about chocolate. You might think about chocolate sometimes but it
lessons lessons every day, right, the impact of it, the
intrigue of it, lessons the more time you stay away
from it. So and I think for me, I was like,
I'm so so like, I'm abstaining from sex until I'm
(53:13):
in a committed relationship, and I wasn't in a committed
relationship at the time, So in my mind, I was like,
I don't even know what's going on, do you know
what I mean? Oh, I can't, especially if this happened
in that window, like you said, where you're you know,
have this goal for yourself and abstaining from sex, and
yet this person is a sex addict who's not in recovery,
who's you know, still watching porn or still acting out
(53:34):
or whatever it is. I can't imagine. That's two different
ends of the spectrum. Yeah, So I think for me
it was just like, it's like so far from where
I'm where I'm going that it was like I don't
even know how to handle it, understandably, So good show, guys,
(53:55):
thanks for coming on, appreciate it. But it's it's it's
something that's actually interesting that a lot of people have
actually reached out to me about because they're like it's
it comes up in conversations when I'm dating, you know,
because it's like, no, I'm not going to just like
I used to. Just I would meet someone and go
sleep with them that night and like not care, yeah,
not even think and and it's so different from me now,
(54:17):
and it's like that's how I have to just Well,
it's gonna be really meaningful when you actually do have
that next relationship. But okay, IgE, okay. Thank you to
robin Hood. They're giving listeners a wind down a free
stock like Apple, Ford or Spread to help you build
your portfolio. Side if it wind down Dot robin hood
dot com, Lola for all subscription visit my Lola dot
com and entered Jana when you subscribe. River Terraces in
(54:39):
Napa Valley Wine Train, thank you so much for having
us this weekend. It's been a blast ums by the way,
really fun. I'm happy to be in Napa because this
was where you reproposed to me two years ago. Two
years ago, you thought it was last year I did.
Time was a little off. Two years ago Michael reproposed
to me a Napa So Napple always hold a special
place in my heart for sure. Yeah, Okay, thanks for
(55:02):
winning down. I love you guys. Wine down later. Bye M.
Swine Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast.
The guys we like, literally no joke. We are on
a train, moving train, a moving train, drinking wine and
what Michael's drinking a bullet and sprite um and we
(00:23):
are joined if you don't know that laugh, We are
joined by Tanya ra O. Hey, what is the rat
stand for? My last name is Raddy sav of Each,
so it's d each. What is that serbian? Oh? Interesting? Serbian?
Like you were born there, born here, so that really
(00:45):
make you both. My parents are hund so like they
moved here. I was born here. So my last name
is very, very lengthy and so professional, holy, so professionally.
I was like, oh, email me my emails. Tanya bready
saw of you each at I Heart Media or whatever,
and people are like, how do you spell that? So
I just chopped it. Do you know how many people
(01:05):
are going to try to email you know with that
name that it does not exist, So don't even try.
I just I don't know. I love that. But we're
just so happy that you're going to be our co
host on today's wind down because we have a lot
to wind down with, but just to kind of get
everyone in the scope of like why we're here. We
are helping or we're a lot of um listeners are
(01:27):
here for the Red Cross. So we're here and um,
we're giving back and we're on a plane. I mean
on a plane. Jesus, we're on a train. If you
hear that little noise, that's why we're here. Um. So yeah,
it's gonna be fun. We're gonna drink and meet people
and have fun and give back to the Red Cross.
I'm super excited. I'm actually like really excited because I
(01:49):
get to see you guys, like in and out of
the studio when we're like transitioning and like we have
events here and there. But I'm really excited to just
like I kind of love when you said to Mike
in the car on the ride to the hotel, do
you want to tell our listeners what you said? Um?
I come full circle with Mike. I did not love
(02:10):
you in the beginning when I met you, So even
when you met me, you just when did you remember
the first time? Yes? And it's I don't use the
word hate. I didn't hate you, because it takes a
lot for me to hate somebody I did not know.
I did not hate you. But um, I had heard
some things. What did you hear? Um, I'm just from me,
from not from me or from like the word of mouth,
(02:33):
just word of mouth. But so that's like true, we've
been through yeah, not anything like that was like gossipy,
like he cheated blahah And so my guard was up
with you understandably. So um, but as I have like
just little things that you've done here and there, and
I don't even know if you know that you do
these things. You really are a gentleman. And I can
(02:56):
tell that you, um are kind and um just by
little little things that he does. And I know it
sounds really silly, but I pick up on these things,
and I really have come full circle. And it's been
a while since I've come full circle on you. But
I I expressed it to you today because I don't
know why. When was there a moment or was it
(03:18):
just over over time you kind of just was reflecting
on it, or was she strongly disliked me until today
when I said I'll get her bag up until today
on the airplane. But even even that, like even just
just offering to do that I think is really um,
it's sweet and it's kind and it's a it's a
(03:39):
gentleman thing, and um, I can tell that you're a
good guy. Yeah, I really genuinely mean that. I appreciate that.
I gotta be more consistent in that with my wife, right, honey. Yeah,
But nobody's perfect. No, it's it's it's just it's hard
with the person that you know. You see the good, bad,
(04:01):
and the ugliest with the person that you're with. Right
And I'm literally reading a book right now, or I
started reading. I didn't read the introduction. I'm I'm beginning
to read a book called How to Be an Adult
in a Relationship, because I mean, it's just the thing is,
you know, unfortunately Jana might feel like I'm I'm mean,
(04:22):
because sometimes I am because I don't know how to
express my feelings, and so I just kind of like holding,
holding and holding, and then I'm just like and then
I just kind of like bust out and then and
he'll say like, and the thing with him is like
he'll say really mean things right where it's like he
could have done a million nice things maybe that week
or that month, but like he says, like you're so
annoying and you as stupid questions. So then that's all
(04:44):
I hear. But and then I'm just I think it's
really honorable for both of you, honestly, because I think
that you are really open and honest about a lot
of things that go on in your relationship, and not
a lot of people are that way. And I think
it's really awesome because you know, there there are ups
and downs to being married and ups and downs to
being single, and not a lot of people talk. You know,
(05:06):
it's like we have this perfect marriage and it's you know,
rainbows and butterflies. And I think that's really awesome that
you guys are open about it. What do you We're
playing the kind of the question game on the on
the vand ride up. Let's play games. I was a
camp counselor that there was all in this car ride
together and it was great because what's the default, right,
(05:27):
Everyone's gonna go to their phones or conversation. I thought
the bus ride was fun though. And um, but you
asked us, you know what's the worst thing about marriage?
So I will mirror that question, say what's the worst
thing for you about being single? Um? I think for
me specifically, I crave companionship. I really love companionship and
(05:49):
I think there's something really beautiful And I have a
lot of companionship in my life, not obviously romantically yet,
but I have a lot of um friends that are
like family and co workers that are like family and
family that's family, you know, And so I have that.
But I think for for me, I really, um, I
think it's really cool to do life with somebody and
go through milestones with somebody and learn and grow with somebody.
(06:10):
So I think for me, I like out, um, big
things will happen in my life and I want to
be able to share that with somebody and have that
be long term, you know. So it's like that's what
I I That's the hardest thing for me for sure.
Who's the first person you go to if something exciting
or something bad happens in your life. Who's like the
first person you're gonna text or call or whatever? My mom? Yeah, yeah,
(06:33):
so you guys are really close. What's your relationship with
your dad? Very close to but he doesn't get all
of this life stuff like foreign and just men. Like
the same way with my parents, Like my mom understands
a little bit more. My dad's very old school, very
old fashioned, just like what yeah, like My dad didn't
really even realize who Ryan Seacrest was until it was
(06:54):
like it was like personality. Yeah, he's the cutest. Do
you love working for Ryan? I truly adore working behind
What's like the worst part about it though, if you
can say it the worst? Um, yeah, no, I'd say
the early mornings, but I mean you get that with like,
(07:15):
I mean, if I were to work on any morning show,
you know, Um, what's the worst part about working with him?
He chooses pen caps, which is like kind of really annoying,
the shoot up pens everywhere. That's funny. Yeah. Um, so
there's a specific someone on the train that we might
be interested in question mark exclamation point. So he was
(07:39):
a guest host on my podcast when I was out. Um,
he co hosted with Becca and our entire like scrubbing
in Facebook group was like running a muck about how
Blake is, like my dude. I never thought of him
that way, and he was what's his story? He was
on the he on Uh, he was on Becca's Oh
(08:02):
he was. I mean, he's so sweet. Would you be
super uncomfortable if I had him come on and then
kind of made it public? No, anything makes me uncomfortable.
But by the way, whatever happened with football guy, Yeah
he's a friend. What when when? Because he slid into
(08:26):
your DM ever since they went to the Super Bowl. Yeah,
it was like right before that actually, But do you
know what's actually really funny. I think it truly was
like a benign d M. Like there's no benign I
do not know, really know, there's if a guy slides
into a girl's it's like with like, babe, when you
slid into my d M. S is it was nine
strategically photo because all he said, mind you, that's how
(08:49):
he met was Twitter, so mind you. All he said
when I did follow him back eventually was thanks for
the follow back, So that could have just been you know,
but so what ever he said to you and he thanks, yeah,
So I mean there's clearly something even whatever he said
(09:09):
to you. I mean it was like a music thing.
I was like, oh, you know, I do song of
the day every day. Well, he had interest in something,
so it was just we had to do a better
follow up next time. Yeah, I followed. And I think
I'm also very naive when people flirt with me. I
don't get it, Like I don't put up on it,
so I was like, oh really. Like five months later,
I'm like, oh he did. I had no idea You're
like cool, bro, Wait, I could be a little redundant here.
(09:32):
And your listeners probably know when you guys first met who,
like was the pursuer? Oh my, I didn't know who. Yeah,
I didn't know who. Do know existed on this earth? No?
That's I mean, well until I slid in. Yeah, you know.
He kept favoriting a few of my things, and then
I was it was a board thirty. I was a
(09:53):
thirty year thirty years old, eating macaroni and cheese, having
a glass of wine. I'm scrolling through my Twitter and
I see this guy favoriting my stuff. I click on
his picture. I was like, oh, he's cute. And then
I followed him back and I saw he had a
blue checkmark too, and then he was a football player. Wait, okay,
so here's here's my question. Did Jamma play like? Did
(10:14):
you play cool? Were you kind of like seemed disinterested?
I kind of got him on the spot, so, like
I felt, I started, he I followed. I followed him,
then he shot back right away. As often as we
tell this story, it was not because I was strategically
planned it. I was with I was in my house
that I had in Baltimore at the time. I had
a couple of buddies that lived with me, and it
(10:36):
was a rainy Sunday afternoon. We're about to watch a
movie and she followed back. I told my buddy. I
was like, hey, Jannakramer just followed me back, Like what
do I do? And we were like teenage girls. That
became a we thing. What are we gonna say? And
he was like, my buddy Alex Blitz said this. He's like,
let's just watch this movie and then let's figure it
out and like do this together. I was like, all right,
(10:56):
ten minutes in the movie, I was like I can't.
I have to message your back. And so whole movie
I wasn't paying attention. We were just d M and
back and forth. So mind you that was happening. And
then four days later he flew out to one of
my shows. But then I would I did some kind
of kind of crazy things I FaceTime in the second
day because um and okay, okay. So that obviously didn't
(11:16):
turn you off, No, not at all, And it's what's
funny is So that was on a Sunday. We talked
on Twitter. Monday she gave me your number. Tuesday, Uh,
we talked on the phone and then she was like, hey,
you know, let's FaceTime and she kind of hit me
randomly with it, right, So I love a rogue FaceTime. Yeah,
I was like, what, I was at the dog park
(11:37):
with my dog in Baltimore, like an inner city, so
I'm like, hey, like, I'm in the dog park, Like,
give me a few minutes. I booked at home. I
live like a mile from the dog park, booking it
with my with my dog. Get back, changed my shirt,
put a hat on it, probably did some push ups
before FaceTime, which really doesn't do anything. But I just
felt better about myself. And then we FaceTime and yeah,
(11:59):
then what. It's so funny because I tell people that
all the time because they're like, I always say, I'm
like a lot, I'm I'm allowed personality, and everyone says
you need to let the guy pursue you, and I'm like,
but I don't think I do. Like I want someone
obviously that wants me the same, but I'm like, I'm
just gonna be me. That's part of what attracted me
(12:21):
to Jana so quick. Was like, she's just a normal person,
just like everybody else. And she's just like, yeah, hey,
we're hitting this off. You want to come see me
in Chicago. I was like it was nine o'clock at night.
I was like, sure, house tomorrow, like first thing in
the morning. He's like, yeah, let's do it. Well, I'm
glad you invested in me, babe. And you know what
else we're investing in is robin Hood. So robin Hood
(12:42):
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(13:04):
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(13:26):
to help you build your portfolio. So all you have
to do is sign up at Windown dot robin Hood
dot com. Okay, so we want to let you all
know that Mike and I are going on a podcast tour.
We've got three dates coming up in May, so we're
doing Virginia, Boston, and New York and we're so excited
about it. So basically we're going to wind Down with
you guys and then you're going to get an exclusive concert.
(13:48):
I'm gonna play a bunch of songs and it's going
to be a really fun time. So we we want
you guys to come out. Get your tickets at Janet
Cramer dot com because it's going to be a blast.
Come on out. It's gonna be a great time. Anything.
People are going to hear songs that they have that
you haven't released yet. Yeah, I'm gonna be singing songs
that I have never sang before, new songs. So it's
going to be a lot of fun. And again, the
(14:09):
podcast doesn't actually it's not going to be like live,
so people you only get to hear it if you're there,
that's it. So it's going to be very exclusive, be
a part of it. Were we want to be very interactive. Yeah,
if you've heard our last live podcast, that's what you're
going to get. But this one is just going to
be more intimate and you guys can't actually hear. But
if you live in Boston, Virginia, New York, at the
(14:30):
show just for you. So it's gonna be fun. Janna
Kramer dot com, get the tickets, come on now. Okay, So, hi, hi, good.
How are you so? The last time I saw you,
I was super pregnant with Jason and you, um you
were single. I was, I am. You're still saying, I'm
still I think that's what you're getting. Yeah, us catch
(14:54):
the chase. Um, this is gonna be the grilling match.
What what kind of women? And do you want like
if you could have your what are the top three
qualities and a woman? Um? I love like an independent woman?
You know, I want? I want? That didn't take a
long seconds. I'm so sorry. Excuse me, no, I just
(15:18):
um cough, excuse me so sorry? Go ahead, like independent woman? Yeah,
I always say that I want a woman who doesn't
need a man, but wants a man. That's kind of
like what I I'm attracted. I have a lot of
strong women in my life, so I'm attracted to that.
So you have sisters, Yeah, I have a sister. Well,
I have over stepsister, my sister and my mom. Yeah.
Uh so, yeah, I guess I gravitate towards you know,
like I guess strong independent women. So that's something I'm
(15:40):
definitely looking for. And I like, I like a sense
of humor, but I like, I do like dry sense
of humor, kind of kind of like you like the
office parks are rack Yes, totally h big office guy,
You're welcome. I don't understand that humor, but yeah, I
love that and witty. You know. I like a girl
who can like snap clap back a little bit, you know.
And do you know the girl? Do you're right? Never? No,
(16:03):
never met her? You've never met How old are you?
I turned thirty in two weeks? Oh, two weeks okay,
and howld a, Oh that's great. I will tell you
the dynamics. So he's younger than me. Um, And I
actually like that dynamic. It's good and especially because you
know Tany and I are very you know, independent, strong,
(16:26):
strong women I have. So I was on jury duty
a couple of weeks ago. Blake filled in for me.
Can you tell us about the case, but I actually
can now. I think it was so gnarly like it sounded,
remember you talk about Yeah, I couldn't talk about it
at the time. Open. No, it was like good little office.
(16:48):
It was like a really gnarly case. I didn't end
up picking me. It was a three day jury like selection.
Why didn't they pick you? Did you do the things
where you're very opinionated and then you don't get back? No?
But do you know what's so crazy is the judge
like this one man clue really was doing that, Like
he was just saying everything to like not get picked.
The judge picked him to be an alternate, so he
had a stay on the trial. But he didn't even
get his He didn't even get to vote on it
(17:10):
because he could tell that he was literally was like
saying everything to get out of it. Every literally it
was so funny. So he picked him to be an alternate.
So I didn't do that. I was very honest, but
um uh, it had like it was like I had
to do like b DSM websites and like stalking and
like gnarly things that have. Like I was like, but anyways,
(17:36):
that being said, so Blake filled in on scrubbing in.
I don't know what you said. Actually I listened to it.
It was really our listeners were obsessed with you, and
then they were like, now they're convinced that, like you're
my guy. Like yes, they're like Blake, So now I'm convinced.
So I just feel like, I know you live in Denver, right,
(17:58):
so how could we make just I think one day
at least one day, because here's the deal. You have
to put in, like the effort, you know, because Michael
lived in in Baltimore when I first met him, So
you know, at times I thought this isn't gonna work.
He lives in Baltimore. I'm not moving to Baltimore. But
I would have. I would have though, I really truly
(18:20):
would have, but at the time we needed to be
in Nashville. But I'm just saying, like, for y'all situation,
I think you owe its right now. You have a situation.
The best part is we get literally we get here
and Janna like looks at you should points at you?
I do. I did the heads like, yeah, I was like,
what about everybody? I know what I'm just saying. I
(18:40):
think you guys are both attractive people, You're both nice people,
and I think you guys have the same values and
the same we'll go to dinner tonight, not like everybody else.
I do have a question though, because of Tanya's work,
is that something where you be comfortable? I know, like
you aired your life out on the Bachelor, but you
want more a private life now or do you want
(19:03):
like because she's obviously would have to talk about your
relationship in y'all's date, so would you? Is that for
a guy? You don't want that to be talked about.
I think that might be hard time for you. I
think guys might feel a little I think if you
have boundaries around it, I have it. It's interesting, so yes, yeah,
(19:24):
but it actually has never been the reason why something
hasn't worked out like most guys and and I do
talk a lot about my relationships, but there are boundaries,
like I don't share everything. And Ryan's actually really good
about not pressing on the topics because I went through
a really bad breakup when I was working on the show,
(19:44):
and he was really really like when I tell you
the most gentlemanly, like just the best ever about like
being respectful of letting me share what I wanted to
share and not what I didn't want to share. So
I do have boundaries and I don't share everything off obviously,
but I do share, right, And how would that be
for you? Yeah? That I mean like you just like
you said, I was on the bat shot and I
(20:05):
talked about everything. You're not put it all out there,
so it doesn't it wouldn't bother me. Now that's not
that's like a deal breaker or anything like that. Well,
so that's good. So we can put a check next
to that question. Mike, what about you? You You got any
questions for black Good? That's my only question? Like how
many times it's my Instagram hand? Perfect key and pee? Okay?
(20:28):
Because I just hear you always say whenever there's a Blake,
it's like a bullock. Yeah, I mean everyone, it's like universal.
Yeah that a run. I don't know that one either. Yeah.
A lot of people that are surprising come down to
you had no idea. They're like, what does your handle mean?
And I was like, I put I put the skin
up finally, and I was like, look, I'm sired of
a d n asking what my name means? Do you
(20:49):
want kids? Yeah? And do you want to get married? Yes?
All of you? What is your timeline? You know what?
I've never been the guy that's had like how to
be married by hand and have a family by then.
Like I've never been that guy. So there's it. Yeah,
there's no time line at all. I mean I like this.
I think you guys could be I do I really
like it? Do you like it? I mean, yeah, that
was a test. I'm not putting any pressure on the
(21:11):
appreciate pressure there. I just say they should have a dinner,
a quiet dinner by themselves on this movie train in
a corner. I don't know. I think you'd be really cute,
but that's just my personal opinion. How are you feeling?
Do you feel any do you feel any jitters? Like
I feel like, well, it's so funny because I'm telling
(21:32):
you that it was like an overwhelming really yeah, and
then what's even funnier. So we were reading all that
back when I came back the next week and I'm
like big into like astrological signs, and I was like okay,
just for know. I looked up. We looked up. We
tried to figure out what your sign was, and you're
my perfect match sign. Why spoken? I mean there's something
(21:55):
to that that there will say there really truly is
something to that because your tourists, right, yeah, I think tourist.
I'm like on the verge from what I've heard, like
on the aries tourist cusp. Yeah, I looked and we
looked into it. Did you really love Becca? Yeah? You did?
I did. Yeah, I did. It was the lover No,
(22:19):
my wife, that was No, that's good, straight to the point. Um, No, yeah,
I did. I think I think I was one of
the unique. I knew, like right pretty much pretty summing
going after our first after our first one, I want
to remember laying in bed, going, this is gonna be
really hard, you know. I was like, I'm gonna fall
for this girl. So I knew pretty early on. Yeah,
and then you were you got pretty upset to you
got jealous. Didn't you almost leave like you had a
(22:41):
like I can't do this. No, I didn't leave or anything.
I didn't like threatened to leave or anything. But yeah,
it was really hard for me. I we fell in
love with each other super early in the process, so
then I had to sit there and watch her follow
with somebody else, which it's not easy. Honestly, I don't
know how you guys do that. I could not do it.
I would I would, I would just be all I
would be crying. I'd be actually, I would just cry
(23:04):
the entire time. And you don't have anything to do,
so all you do is sit there and think about it,
and then you talk to three stories face a therapist
like that's your therapist, and you sit there and talk
to him for hours about it. So, yeah, it's brutal. Yeah,
everybody has to. Like people have told me to go
on the batchlor and I was like, I genuinely don't
think my heart is built for it. I don't think
I couldn't well. And that's the thing is, I will
never judge anybody for what they do in that environment,
(23:25):
because it's it's such a ridiculous environment, Like you can't
judge somebody who they are off of that what you
see on television or even when I'm in It's like,
I wouldn't judge somebody until afterwards. I'd have to talk
to him and meet him afterwards. Yeah, everybody reacts definitely
in that environment, I feel like, I mean, it seems
like this like a lot of you guys like you
know today and stuff. You guys are really close, like
all the guys are on the show together and everything
like that. Like does that really like do you leave
(23:46):
with friends that you'll probably be friends with the rest
of your life? Yeah? I think I definitely have. I
don't know for everybody, but I definitely will. You there's
no TV, no internet, no phone, like nothing. You complearly
cut off, so all you do is talk like all
you don't talk, you really get to these people. Uh
and me and Jayson, So I I said, people early
on kind of knew that me and Becca had a
really good connection. So I kind of distanced myself and
(24:06):
people distanced himself from me. I still was able to,
you know, get close to the guys, but not as
close as when I left the show. And then me
and Jason, when me Jason Colton, all you know, we
signed contracts to be the Bachelor, and when Colton was picked,
you know, I remember text and Jason and I was like,
let's go. You know, we got a whole let's go
experience all this craziness, and we did a lot of
events together and that's what we got super super close.
(24:27):
And so that's the thing is like after the show,
you hang out a lot and you get even closer
even post shows. I love that. Um, well, Blake, thank
you for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. We're
now going to talk about you just gonna want to
do a podcast here and have have a beat you
and I, oh, thank you so much. All right, thanks guys,
(24:53):
And he was a fan fan favorite, like are are
scrubbing and listeners they like they're very vocal and they're like,
we will we will only take Brad Garski and Blake
like they only Yeah, they love when Brad's on. So
they're like, whenever you guys need to feeling, it needs
to be there Brad or Blake. Yeah. So what do
you think by Blake yet? Okay, he's gone, he's left
(25:17):
the train, he's left the trains off the train. I
think he's a good guy. There's a butt, No, there's
no butt, okay, but well the butts. He lives in
Denver sounds like says that he lives in Denver, But
that doesn't matter. I'm with you. It doesn't like, it
doesn't matter until you get to know the person. It's like,
would you move, like would he move to Los Angeles?
(25:38):
Let's pause that really fast, because you know what matters
is finding a good organic cotton tampons and pads and like,
oh my gosh, I have Lola in right now. Are sorry? Yes?
I do, mis like I did not need to know that.
Oh she's showing us. Okay, So Lola is a female
(25:59):
founded company offering a line of organic cotton tampons. Wow,
there it is pads liners, but she just I had
just said, there it is like you pulled it out,
but she pulled out an actual tampons out of her back.
Still still, so they are natural and easy to feel
good about. Um, I don't know, tiny, it's inside of
you right now, so I mean, I just know I
had to tell you. I was shocked when I found
(26:20):
out that that tampons and pads and all these things
are bleached, like chemically bleached, and then we put them
inside of body. Yes, it's actually disturbing. So yeah, I
use Lola. I'm I'm happy, happy consumer. I think what
I love about them too is they actually deliver. You
can customize your subscription. So for me personally, this is
maybe t M I, but I like only using Super.
(26:41):
So what does that mean? Um, it's the absorbancy of
which you need absorban it's more observant. But if not,
like you know you have you can customize because other
things it's like, oh, you have Super and Regulars, and
well want to really use the regular. So with Lola,
I'm able to customize it. And then I also know
and like you might have like one really heavy day
(27:02):
and then the rest really lights yes, exactly, So if
someone has that, then they only maybe need like five
super right exact exactly, so I know you do. And
then when the box shows up or when I'm getting hormonal,
you'll know that my periods just around the corner. So
like my alarm clock when it shows up at the
door staff, oh my gosh, here we go. But here's
(27:24):
the problem. Then he'll go, oh, that's why she was emotional.
Yeah it makes sense. Okay, So Lola has been great
for me. It's one less thing to worry about. They
arrive at my door right before I need them, which
is a nice reminder of where I am in the month. Anyways,
Forty of all subscriptions visit my lola dot com and
entered Janna. When when you subscribe, that's my lola dot com.
And when you subscribe, just enter or um or Tania.
(27:49):
I don't know you know Becca? Our coldes always Becca.
All right, let's get like real deep. I mean, I
have some more like marriage questions. Are you doing? Yeah? Okay,
what's up for somebody that I I do? Like, I
want to get married and I want to have a family.
That's the ultimate goal for me. With Blake, I'm not looking.
(28:11):
He reminds me of Abbey, who's one of my best
friends back home. Is he a good guys? Honestly, I'm
married with two kids one kid. I've never closed off
to anything. So like, if Blake were to be like,
let's actually go out, I would be like, I'm totally down.
I think he should just give it one dinner. Do
you have his number? Yes? Okay? Then just text him
(28:33):
okay and be like, hey when when you're in not
late next we should for real get some dinner. Yeah,
put it out there. If he doesn't respond, well, then
find f him right who needs him? But at least
put it out there. Yes, I also don't know. I
think the thing with me is like I'm very much
not in the headspace of like I don't need to
just like hump around that makes sense or data around.
(28:53):
I don't do that anymore. Like I just have not
built for it. Um. But I'm also because it hurts
or I'm not physically I'm not emotionally alright, you gotta
literally with yes, yes, sorry, I'm not emotionally built for it. Um.
So I don't know if he's in that phase of
like wanting to like, wait, what what about Ryan? That's
(29:17):
like my brother, but like he's single again, this is correct,
but it's like how many years have you guys worked together? Eight? Right,
and how many things have you guys, like how much
you know about each other? Like every too much? Yeah,
it's it's it's literally like a brother sister relationship. And
I know it's funny because people all right, well, I
(29:40):
just had that epiphany and I was like, oh, one
of my girlfriends was like, unless we came out of
like our mom's vagina together, you are not my brother
and we can date. And I was like, I know,
I get that, but I think that it's just it's
too far gone and he's my boss and like I
like the relationship that we have. Okay, all right, Yeah,
and they just broke up who I never even know
(30:01):
it was a model or something like that. Um, he will,
I think officiate my wedding though you Yeah, I love that.
Back to back to what you were saying, okay about marriage, Yes,
how do you know when a guy's in that place,
he'll show up. He'll show up, he'll action the action.
(30:23):
They can say all they want, like oh, by one kids,
I want that, I want to be in a relationship.
But unless they're showing up. Because like dated around, how
did you know that this was different? Because I actually
wanted to work on it? So like because he had
left up in the very beginning of our even when
we were dating, And if he didn't actually really want
(30:43):
to work on it, he could have easily been like, yeah, right,
whatever next, and I could have too, I'd have been like, oh,
he's screwed up next, But I didn't. I was like,
I really liked I really liked him. Yeah, and I
and my actions showed that I was willing to do
with my actions proved to her that this was different, Like,
(31:03):
this wasn't just some girl I want to date for
a while, because of it's so easy to get divorced
nowadays you work at it. It's hard. It sucks. Some
days it literally sucks. I mean I have a girl's
group chat message where we're sometimes we're just like why
is this so hard? Like I am I'm so not
(31:24):
with my husband? Or this just sucks. Sometimes you know
it's hard, But isn't there something so beautiful about the
fact that, like, oh it's great sixty you can look
back at all these like beautiful memories that I hope
so like you, like you mentioned earlier when you talked
about like companionship, right, like that's where Jane and I
just really appreciate just the trenches of what we're doing
(31:46):
right now with two kids, busy life, a lot of travel.
It's just like, you know, how how do we do this?
But we're doing it, you know, regardless at the end
of the day, we know we're together, we're going to
be together, we're union out, we're doing life. It's like,
you know, that's that's the companionship, Like the depth of
it that it's you know, you really want like you
(32:07):
have like a teammate, And I think that there's something
so special about that. I love that I really it
is cool. I always say, like in the times of
chaos is when I love him the most, it's because
I'm like, we're here doing this together. Yeah, because we
we both are empathetic to how hard it is. So
when it gets hard, you know, we both want to
help each other and pick each other up and reassure
(32:27):
one another like, hey, we're doing this. We are kids
are healthier, kids are alive, they were providing for them.
So when you think of it in that kind of
point of view, you're like, hey, you know what, We're okay.
So do you guys hang do you guys hang out
with like other married couples. Yeah, it's very hard to
have single friends. So I have a single friend Sarah. Well,
(32:48):
she shouldn't say she's single. She she's with boyfriend, right, Yeah,
she's with boyfriend. She's with boyfriend friend, she's with boyfriends
for six years and yes, um yeah, but it's still
like she still doesn't understand you know what I mean.
It's still hard. Yeah. Actually, one of my mentors in
life is Devon Franklin, and I read all of his books,
and one of him the rules and his marriage, is
(33:09):
we do not ask our single friends for relationship advice.
You can't, isn't that right? Yeah? We have their book. Wait,
it's great. It's a great book. It's a great book. Yeah,
they're awesome. Hey can I read the Speaking of friends though? Um?
This is from Becky, my best friend and my husband.
My husband. I have been together almost twelve years now,
(33:30):
and the first eight years were full of indiscretions on
his part. Most were just him talking to girls but
never any action. But then four years ago someone walked
into our lives and knew exactly how to play us
to her benefit. The person became my best friend and
even started dating my brother. Before she came into our lives,
everything was good, but then we started fighting way more
than normal. I started to pick up on little cues
and she was trying to make me mad at times
(33:51):
or mad at him. Turned out she was doing the
same things to him. She wanted him and would do
whatever it took. Bottom line, she got what she wanted
and I discovered a four month of fair between my
supposed best friend and my life partner. We are four
and a half years out, but I still think about
it at least once every single day. I don't know
that I'll ever be able to fully move beyond the situation.
It feels so personal you and might inspire me, but
(34:12):
I don't know that my wounds will ever heal. I'm
curious what you guys think about how close is it?
How how close is okay with your spouse's best friend.
Tongu is like, I don't know, well, I think what's interesting.
So Janna and I kind of touched on this, and
(34:33):
this is again, I mean, we don't really hold back
on this podcast. So for Janna and kind of her
love language and what she appreciates is to be candidates,
like say, hypothetical, if Janna ever cheated our relationship, it
would probably be with somebody that we're close to, because
(34:54):
she likes to be intimate with people. She likes to
know them, and that's where she like Garners like love
and appreciation and afection, where me um intimate avoidance. So
for me, it could never be someone that like we
were friends with or we knew or because that would
be super uncomfortable for me. You would have to be
completely a complete stranger that I don't know you know,
(35:15):
So it's you know, it's that whole dynamic is interesting,
and for I mean, the closeness. So I say that
because yes, because of my pastor, Jenna still you know,
wants to make sure there's boundaries with everyone in our life,
which is completely understandable, you know, but I think she
(35:35):
still acknowledges that too in the back of her mind,
like this would like I don't think he would ever
step that far because of him being so uncomfortable. Now,
I think you just have to examine that relationship well,
like I would be uncomfortable, like, yes, Julie is my
best friend, but I wouldn't feel comfortable if you and
Julie were like, we're going to go have lunch, I'd
be like, like, I think there's certain boundaries that you
(35:57):
have to have with and I trust Julie with my life,
like and she's she's freaking watching her kid right now,
you know, I mean like that, and she and she
was one of the rare few from the very beginning
was very supportive. Yeah, she was like yeah, so, but
I mean just I mean, okay, for example, like our
friend you know that we're going to have in our neighborhood,
(36:17):
our new neighborhood friends, it's like one on one. I
still just think one on one other sex is just
not I'm with you. I don't see I don't see
why like what there would never I don't see where
there would ever be a scenario why that would have
to happen. Yeah, I have a lot of married friends
and I like to if I ever need to text
like the guy, it's always just something that when the
(36:40):
girl can't know if it's like other than that, it's
always text the girl always or a group chat. And
it's funny because we have one of my bosses is
a man, and I'll like just send him like whenever
I have like a topic idea, it'd be like nine
o'clock and e ten pm or whatever, and I always
tell him I'm like, I feel awkward texting you at
like ten pm, and I cause you're married with kids,
(37:01):
you know, um. But he's like, no, send it. But
I still feel like because I know that he's married,
and it's like I'm so not like that, but I
still get like that. I feel like there should be boundaries.
Could you ever see yourself? Oh? First of all, I
just want to say, Becky, I'm really sorry, and just
I applaud you guys for trying. But it'll just take
It's just gonna take time, and your triggers are going
(37:23):
to be there, and hopefully he can hopefully he can
be empathetic to your triggers and respect boundaries. Yeah, because
that's that's that's gotta cut deep and get that girl
out of your life, the other girl. Yeah. By do
you think you could ever? I mean, here's the thing
when I A would say this, do you think you
could ever? I think anyone's capable of anything. But do
you do you think you could ever cheat in a relationship? Uh? No?
(37:46):
What if you put yourself in the situation that it's
I mean, you know, I like it's actually like a
flaw of mine, Like I'm like brutally loyal, Like I
can't even like it's like it's bad. It's bad. So
it's not bad. That's great, it's great. But it's also
like a little bit of the flow because I feel
(38:07):
like sometimes I'm I stay in relationships even friendships that
I don't yeah, yeah, because I'm just like I've known
you for so long, I'm loyal to you, you know.
Um So no, I don't. I don't think that I could.
And I've been cheated on before, and it's like, I mean,
it's just broke me and I'm also cancer so I'm
very very sensitive. Um, do you can we do this?
(38:28):
Top one bed um married to sex addict? So, Kelly,
what do I want? We can say you guys are
just like really cute, Like I just like, like this
is so creepy. I just like watching you guys like
it's really sweet. And I actually want to sidebar with
you a little bit about sex addiction. Okay, well this
(38:51):
is great because we're going to go on this. Our
next email, Mary to a sex addict. I found out
in August. My husband is a sex addict and for
our three years of marriage has been meeting up with
women he met on sex apps. He said. Um, he
has said he doesn't want to lose our family and
wants to get better. We don't have financial means for
him to do an impatient program, which we again sidebar.
We understand it's it's incredibly expensive. Um. We tried couples
(39:13):
counseling and stopped going when he said it was making
things worse. After listening to your podcast last week, he
actually looked into information Mike mentioned and has joined an
essay a group, yes, Um, that you call into He
is trying but I still have zero trust in him.
Most of the time, I feel like I hate him
and would rather be alone. Do these feelings ever end?
Or is our marriage just doomed? How do you trust
(39:35):
someone when they have become a pro at deceiving you
and spent years successfully doing it? Wow? What an email? Um?
First of all, I'll say, Kelly, Um, you know if
he wants to have someone to talk to, because calling
me calling meetings are great? You did calling meetings when
(39:58):
you can in person meetings or you've an better because
it's all about um creating intimacy with other human beings
who have the same issues or suffer like that he does.
If he wants to contact me, Janna Kraman, I heart
media dot com. Yes, and reference that you're Kelly and
you wrote this email and and um, him and I
(40:19):
can get in touch. Um Man, that's a lot. I
will say to Kelly, you just found out, so you
gotta give yourself some time. Um. Every other day I
considered do I just leave? I'm so miserable, But you
have to give it. I gave it a year. That's
what my therapist said. Give it a year. Um. And
then after a year, you don't think about it as much.
(40:42):
I still think about it every day, but it's not
the impact is not as strong as it was. You
don't think about it as much. If he's doing the work, yes,
and he has to show up and do the work.
And but I a plot him though, for even doing
finding the essay groups and that's going to change a
lot in him. So good on him, and keep encouraging
him to do that, which is that's just hard. That's
(41:03):
when she just found out. That's hard. It's hard to encourage. Yeah,
I'm not I'm not even saying, hey, honey, yeah, I
keep going not like that. But allow him if he
has to, if you have to reschedule something or kind
of schedule around that to accommodate, like, allow him to
do that type of deal tany what was your question?
I'm like getting emotional about it because like when you
(41:26):
found out, were you guys already married at the time,
we were married for over a year. Had if you
had found out about his sex addiction when you were dating,
would you have gone out? Good question, that's a great question.
If I would have found out about the affair before
we got married, I wouldn't have married him. That's so
(41:48):
that's the question, because but you're so, that's that's that.
But if I knew he, if he if he had
a sex addiction before we got married, I wouldn't not
I don't think I wouldn't not date him because if
he showed me that he was working, like, hey, I've
(42:11):
been sober for two years. I'm kidding I really because
I really liked some this guy, and it was just
like I could I was like, I don't think I
can ever. Did he tell you that he was a
sex addict a little bit ago? That's you know what?
That's yeah, I was that's hard. And I when Gene
(42:34):
was saying that, I brought that thought to my head.
Is I know plenty of guys in program who we'll
start dating and get to that point in the relationship
where they have to own that. And I've known several
several guys who the significant other couldn't handle it, which
is totally is totally fine, and then some that have
been able to Um, how long was he sober for? Not?
(43:00):
Not long? Was he sober? No? I don't think so.
So he was in still active addiction. So then then
I would say, no, I couldn't do that either. But
if he was saying, I'm in recovery and this is
how long I've been recovering four and I do these
meetings that would make me feel safer. And I would
have explored still because I I believe I would. But
(43:23):
if he was still an active addiction, then there's no,
that's that's insanity. Yeah. Yeah, I don't feel bad about
not taking that on because I don't think anybody I'm
surprised he admitted that but isn't doing but isn't like
because I like found out a different way. Oh did
(43:43):
you cheat? We don't know the person. Um No, No
believe in sex sex addiction. It's funny because I didn't
at the time. I really didn't. I thought it was
an excuse for bad behavior. Um So that's kind of
(44:03):
what I like chalked it up to, you know. And
and for me, I'm just like so on the other
side of that at the moment, because like I'm just
telling you guys, like I can't have unattached sex, Like
I've been very vocal about that. So I was like,
if this were to ever be something like I don't,
I don't. That mindset is so foreign to me, you know.
(44:25):
Um So it sucked because it's like, you know, and
you don't meet people that you hit it off with
all all the time. M hmm, that's a lot. I mean,
but again I don't Unfortunately in your situation, that's one
(44:47):
of those that almost validates it as an excuse, Like
I can see how that would feel, like, all right,
that's just an excuse for bad behavior because you guys
are dating I don't know for how long, but obviously
not that long, and you discover whatever it was, did
you confront him and did he admit to it? Yeah?
It was. It was just tough because I think, um,
(45:13):
I think that uh, had I not found out it
wouldn't it wouldn't have been a conversation for a lot longer.
That makes sense. Yeah, well, you know what, now we're
gonna just I mean, I don't know, how do you
even know? Okay, just don't don't. I hope you don't
(45:35):
beat yourself up at all for feeling bad about leaving
that because he was unhealthy. Yeah, yeah, he period, So
I can't. I wouldn't expect anybody who's newly dating somebody
to sign up for that when they're not in recovery,
So don't. Yeah, don't feel bad about that in any way,
(45:56):
shape or form um. But again, to touch on that email, Kelly,
reach out to Janna at I Heart Na Kramer, I
heart media dot com and I'll be more willing to
talk to your husband and uh here him out. You've
been wanting to be a sponsor, so maybe that will
be your first. That's awesome. M thank you for being
(46:17):
a guest on our show. Miss Toanny Rad. I love you,
I love your energy, I love what you bring and
thanks for opening. And y'all listen to Tonny Rad. She
has an amazing podcast with Becca Tilly. It's called Scrubbing
In on the Heart Radio podcast app. So y'all listen
to her podcasts because it's really good. And I just
love you so thank you. Thanks for having me. We're
gonna have you back on all the time. Um okay, Tanya,
(46:39):
I know that we said bye to you, but um,
Mike's like, wait, where's Tanya? I have one more question
I want to ask our he said, come back. Come.
I was in the back of the train with Blake.
Oh you are how is it going? That's where of
the bathroom doors? Lock? Just kidding, No, I did have
a question to get back on our topic that we
were talking about that you're so open and vulnerable about.
(47:01):
My question is, say that the person that you were
dating or beginning to have a relationship with I told
you that he was an alcoholic? Would your how would
your response differ? Interesting? It is interesting because I have
also had that same situation. I've had that situation happen. Yes,
(47:22):
And what's interesting about that is that did not, um
did not shake me at all because, um, what do
you think that I don't I don't know. The reason
why that ended was because other reasons that had nothing
to do with the fact that he didn't drink alcohol,
but I was willing to like but he was sober? Yes, yeah, yeah,
(47:47):
So if he was, if he was still if he
had said again same to just a mirror the scenario,
if he said, Hey, you know, I'm an alcoholic. I've
been sober a week or something, you know, whatever it was,
to mirror the situation you're in, would you still kind
of be more accepting of him being an alcoholic as
opposed I know, it's it's a very interesting question. And
(48:08):
the answers, yes, why why do you think that is?
I think because and I don't I don't know. But
for me, alcohol is so like minutia in life, do
you know what I mean, Like take it or leave it?
Like I like to drink, but I don't necessarily need
a partner. I don't I don't have to drink exactly.
(48:29):
So for me, it was kind of like take it
or leave it, whereas sex to me is so intimate
and so personal and so like such a big part
that that was like a uh, a big trigger for
me for sure. And I think that's I asked just
(48:50):
because you know, obviously, the twelve step program is universal
for any addiction, and part of my whole motivation to
speak about this more openly is to move try to
move the needle a little bit into social acceptance. Having
said that, I think we're even in ten or fifteen
years when society is more comfortable with sex addiction, I
(49:13):
think there's still going to be that layer of even
if someone is proposed with your situation, one is a
little bit more tolerated or accepted than the other because
there's not. Again, sex is so personal, and it's something
that when you're an in a committed relationship, you're in
the understanding that it's just with each other. So no
matter what, no matter how accepted sex addiction becomes, it's
(49:36):
still going to be part of it, which I think
is okay. So it's interesting because so I was telling
you guys, I used to be able. I would have
unattached sex all the time, and I was always getting hurt.
And it was like until I read The Weight by
Devon and Megan when I realized and I met him
and I was like, I'm going to make this commitment.
(49:57):
I'm not going to have sex outside of a committed relationship.
It's been a minute for me. Oh wow, so you
still haven't. Nope, it's been a long time, and but
it's been the most fulfilling because I used to give
sex expecting something bigger in return, and when that didn't happen,
(50:20):
I would just be I would just be all in
my head of like, why does he not want to
be with me? Why does like? Why all these questions?
And now that that's not even on the table for me,
that's not even an option until he's committed. I haven't
had those feelings, and those are the feelings that make
me feel really really bad about myself. And I might
(50:40):
have nothing, might not have anything to do with me,
but I would always take them personal from an outsider standpoint,
just because you're here and you don't you know, obviously
know a lot about the addiction is there? And do
you have any questions that you that come to mind
about it that you want to ask? Mike kind of yeah,
but I obviously, like I feel like I don't want to. Also,
I feel like I'm I'm open if whatever you want
(51:05):
to ask, I haven't. It's not like I haven't heard it.
So if if you okay, so that that that's an
addiction of yours and you are married, correct, so you
can stay committed to somebody knowing like I want to
foster this relationship for the long haul. This is just
something that I'm dealing with. So do you are you
(51:25):
not open with it? What do you mean? Like, if
you have a thought of something, do you share that
with Janna? Oh, like if he has a thought of
acting out or a thought of corner. Yeah, that's something
that you know. I've brought to Jannah's attention because she
asked and she said, you know, I want to know,
like what you struggle with. Um. Having said that, it's
(51:48):
it's hard to do because still Janna has accepted, understood
a lot of this addiction. But at the same time
it's hard to explain that, hey, maybe this came into
my head, but it's not because I don't want you.
It's not because I don't it's just we had a
discussion about this recently, Jan and I. I was like,
the thing is, those feelings that come up, it's not
(52:10):
necessarily about It's not I want to do those things.
It's I'm trying to handle the feelings that I'm feeling
in that moment, whether it's anxiety or stress, or or
not good enough or whatever. My default from my entire
life was to go to sex or two whenever I
felt those feelings, was to think about this, or was
to go to this certain place. So now retraining my
(52:32):
brain and retraining my body to not react that way,
you know, it's it's inevitable, it's going to happen. But
having been sober for the last year, the lust of
the mind does go away, it does fade, So do
you stop feeding it. That's a thing, like if you
think about chocolate every day, like and then you have
(52:52):
to start training your mind like that to not think
about chocolate. You might think about chocolate sometimes but it
lessons lessons every day, right, the impact of it, the
intrigue of it, lessons the more time you stay away
from it. So and I think for me, I was like,
I'm so so like, I'm abstaining from sex until I'm
(53:13):
in a committed relationship, and I wasn't in a committed
relationship at the time, So in my mind, I was like,
I don't even know what's going on, do you know
what I mean? Oh, I can't, especially if this happened
in that window, like you said, where you're you know,
have this goal for yourself and abstaining from sex, and
yet this person is a sex addict who's not in recovery,
who's you know, still watching porn or still acting out
(53:34):
or whatever it is. I can't imagine. That's two different
ends of the spectrum. Yeah, So I think for me
it was just like, it's like so far from where
I'm where I'm going that it was like I don't
even know how to handle it, understandably, So good show, guys,
(53:55):
thanks for coming on, appreciate it. But it's it's it's
something that's actually interesting that a lot of people have
actually reached out to me about because they're like it's
it comes up in conversations when I'm dating, you know,
because it's like, no, I'm not going to just like
I used to. Just I would meet someone and go
sleep with them that night and like not care, yeah,
not even think and and it's so different from me now,
(54:17):
and it's like that's how I have to just Well,
it's gonna be really meaningful when you actually do have
that next relationship. But okay, IgE, okay. Thank you to
robin Hood. They're giving listeners a wind down a free
stock like Apple, Ford or Spread to help you build
your portfolio. Side if it wind down Dot robin hood
dot com, Lola for all subscription visit my Lola dot
com and entered Jana when you subscribe. River Terraces in
(54:39):
Napa Valley Wine Train, thank you so much for having
us this weekend. It's been a blast ums by the way,
really fun. I'm happy to be in Napa because this
was where you reproposed to me two years ago. Two
years ago, you thought it was last year I did.
Time was a little off. Two years ago Michael reproposed
to me a Napa So Napple always hold a special
place in my heart for sure. Yeah, Okay, thanks for
(55:02):
winning down. I love you guys. Wine down later. Bye M.
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