October 29, 2025 • 31 mins
Jana has a difficult conversation with Brittany Qualls, the daughter of her abuser. Together they navigate pain, trauma, and how to heal from abuse.
If you’re experiencing abuse, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Podcast with it being October and Domestic Violence Awareness Month,
or I really wanted to bring more awareness to it
talk about it. And one of the people that reached
out that we talked about when I was doing Dancing
with the Stars and I came out about my domestic
(00:26):
violence history and being a DV victim. One of the
daughters that I didn't know about, had reached out to
me when I was on Dancing with the Stars and
obviously I was at the time going through turmoil with
my then husband. You know, we had it believed emailed,
(00:47):
but it was I kind of just had to distance
because it was just too much. And then she had
reached out about coming on the podcast, and you know,
we discussed it on here, like yeah, it was her
motivation and what was the reasoning, and you know, so
we had a conversation. I called her, well she'd emailed
me and then with the help of the producer and
(01:08):
then I said, yeah, let's get on the phone, like
let's have a conversation. And we had a conversation and
it was so just like I thought, I didn't need
any more pieces really from it. Sure, but there was
things that I've still discovered about him that blew my
(01:31):
mind but also gave me validation and like an Okay,
maybe this was I wasn't crazy.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I think that's the the key piece is people owning
it and validating I sit in a seat coming from
a home that had violence, and so the part that
I think I'm always missing is is probably the connective
(02:02):
tissue that you and Brittany are getting from that conversation. Yeah,
and I'm very much living a life that was my reality,
but it doesn't seem to be anybody else's reality. Right
is a very lonely place to.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Be, And I think I once we talked, I said,
you know what, this is actually how she's been able
to move through her life and piecing the pieces together.
I said, this is actually I think people do need
to hear this. I agree, but there are I do
have a couple more questions that I want to ask her,
(02:34):
and I'm open to the question she wants to ask me.
So she's here, but I also have this, like yet.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I wanted like a temperature check on how you know.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I've never seen her, so it's like, well, she had
resemblance of my abuser, Like every time I see his
and I just says, as, this is the piece that
I struggle with is on you know, on Google or whatever,
like his face, and I instantly just get this like
oh yeah, like gut punch when I see his face.
(03:03):
So I want I hopefully I can look at her
and see a beautiful side of someone that was a
monster to me. But the IAW can I say that
to her when she's like the beautiful piece of it?
So it's like I think it'll be good. Yeah, you know,
it's like I can re look at something I could
put a I could put a different face to it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, maybe this is the piece of the healing. Yeah.
I also think it's worth noting just for people listening
that like we're jumping right in today, but like there
has been my turn to cry. Yeah, very prayerful conversations
around every piece of what we're going to do in
these episodes, because this isn't light and I mean even
(03:45):
like the text exchange and like the temperature checks with
each other and with you know, Amy Alexander, who's going
to be in one of these episodes. Like just how
prayerful we are trying to be in the way that
we do this like we know it needs to be
done and that it needs a voice, and it needs
all of the validation and the recognition and awareness. And
(04:08):
also it's really heavy topics that haven't been so open
for us. Probably before we've talked high level about it,
but to get in the depth of it. So it's
been very prayerful and very thought out and I'm just
really proud of you already. So well, let's get Brittany on. Hi. Hi, Brittany, Hey, Brittany.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I'm already going to get emotional.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, we've already cried, so I want to hold both
of you.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I'm sorry, No, I'm sorry too.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Maybe I could start by just saying how brave I
think it is a both of you to how brave
and open it is for both of you to have
a heart willing to hear somebody else when it seems
like the common Denominator was probably rooted in some really
dark things, and so I think it's just worth like
(05:05):
maybe opening by saying, I think it's brave and I'm
really honored to share space with both of you when
you have hard conversations and share it in a way
that hopefully can bring some healing impact and awareness to
everybody that's listening, and I just have to say, you
are the most beautiful piece of him. Oh thank you,
You're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So, you know just happened in you know, I we
just spoke about how you know, we had a conversation,
and you know, there were things in that conversation where
I thought, you know, this could be really helpful for
other people to hear this, and you know, I'll just
give you the opportunity to to to kind of tell
me what you were also wanting and why you wanted
to also talk about it too, because I think what
(05:48):
you said was so beautiful as well, and you know
how you are trying to piece things together, so I'll
just let you take that away.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Definitely a hard topic to talk about because at the
end of the day, this person was my father, and
even though I didn't know him and I've known all
the bad things, I think it's still like you hope
there's some good in there, but you know there's not.
So I guess I've always been hopeful that someone would
(06:19):
say something good, you know, but at the end of
the day, there's nothing. And I think I've learned to
be okay with that, because that's not who I am
at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Did you ever get to meet your dad?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, that was a question too that I when I
hung up the phone, I'm like, I didn't even ask her.
I know, you said he wrote you letters that you
now kind of have traced back to when he was
in prison, But yeah, you never You actually never got
to physically meet him.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
No, I chose not to. He asked to meet me
when he was writing me those letters, and I was like, no,
this is not going to happen. I had a child.
I wasn't going to put that child into a situation
could not be good at one point because the way
he was talking to me was very manipulative. Also, so
(07:08):
even in messages I look back now being older, when
I'm younger, I'm like, oh, he's just trying to get
to know me. He's just you know, it's just the
way he talks. Now now looking back to him, like,
that's not how your father's supposed to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
What was your mom like, I guess I didn't even
know were they together, did or was it kind of
a I.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Have no idea. Unfortunately, me and my mom have a
great relationship, but we just don't talk about it. It's
hard on her, is hard on you. We've little things
here and there that I've heard from grandparents, but besides.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
That nothing they were never married or anything.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
No, they were never married. I don't believe he was
married to any of my siblings' moms.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's also news to me. I thought he was married
to the first one.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So no, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I mean, Brittany, I'm and this is no offense to
either parent. But that's like a lot for a child
to carry, right because place of origin matters. Right there,
you find a lot of adult children that even went
through adoption at some point, neither the closure of just
like seeing a face or knowing a name or knowing
the story, like belonging is like one of the basic
human needs, right, yeah, significance and belonging. So if you
(08:20):
have a mom, if you have a dad that you
don't know, and then you have a mom who you are,
in the sweetest, most bravest way possible, trying to protect
I can tell already, you know, because you want to
not break her heart wide open again? What does that
do to you, especially because you're a mom now, So
(08:41):
like I like in my own experience, I felt like
I gave my parents a lot of grace, probably way
too much grace, And then I felt like when I
became a mom, all of a sudden, I had no
grace because I thought, I know what it feels like
now to have this person, and I can't imagine ever
letting them feel unsafe or unseen or unheard or unprotected,
(09:04):
and you are now a mom, And it had a
little bit of both of those things. Even if your
mom means well, she's still doing that a little bit
on that side too. So how does that change when
you become a mom for you?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I think it's just changed because it's so much of
you want to raise your kids as Okay, you have
a grandma and that's all you have, right, Well, they
can only go to that to a certain age, a
certain age. Then they're starting to ask questions, well, why
don't I have a grandpa? Where's your dad? Where is this?
(09:37):
And it's kind of a thing where do you tell
them or you just leave out the blackburn and say, oh,
he's not here, he left. He left when I was young.
I've been very open with my children as I have
older ones and they know everything pretty much, and it
is just is what it is. I tell them everything.
(09:58):
I'm open with them because there's no point of hiding
it from them when eventually they're going to see things
from either pictures and be like, well, why is your
dad here in one picture the one picture I have,
but he's not another place?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You do have one? One picture of them.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
One photo? I have it right here, But yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
You're a baby in that photo.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I'm only two months old because he left when I
was two months.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And when he left, where did he go?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
No idea, no idea. I know he tried to take me,
essentially kidnapped me, and that's pretty much it. And then
my mom was like no, and my grandparents.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Ah, wow, I forgot to also ask this question, and
I don't know if I want to. A piece of
(11:01):
me was like, I don't even know if I want
to know the answer, because I don't want to be
the only one. But I knew there was one after
me that had I'd spoke to you about that wrote
to me that said he pushed it down the stairs
and that she was pregnant. Did you know of any
other girls that were abused that he was with?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, I know of two others.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
How many siblings do you have that I know of? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Four?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Okay, so you and four others.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Those me and four others from him?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And do you have you had any interaction with them?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I've met them all, Okay?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Are they lovely like you?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yes? I have a relationship with two of them.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's really special for you? Was it?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And you know, I think one of the reasons why
we talked to is that you've just been trying to
like put the pieces together. And has that been a
part of you being able to heal or is it
more of a like just like trying to understand or
trying to connect or I think he's.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Trying to understand And at the end of the day,
we all know he wasn't a good person. But I
think I look at it as unfortunately that man is
still my father. So I want to know, even if
it's the bad things, I want to know, do.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
You find any There's no right or wrong answer, and
no judgment either way. So I just want to preface
this because it could be feel deep. But do you
have any grace towards him? Is there any parts of
you that start to go, like you know, I wonder
what his life like, was, what his life was like
growing up, and what made him so angry and what
(12:40):
and listen, no excuse for any of this, right, we
all know that, but I do think it's worth just noting.
But you know, usually they'll say it's like very cliche,
but like hurt people, hurt people, So like what happened
to your dad before he was a dad?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah? I question that all the time. I mean, I've
gotten told that he would adopted, so it's like, oh,
was it because you were adopted supposedly? Or is it
like what happened? You can ask so many whys, but
at the end of the day, I can't. I can't
do that to myself either emotionally of why this, why this,
why this happened to me? So I think I've learned
(13:17):
to just be like, this is what happened, and this
is my life now, and I could take it as
it is.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
When you two spoke previously, did you feel what was
like one thing that kind of like did you feel
when you when you got off the phone? Was it relief?
Was it like I just want to know from each of.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You this put time or the first time.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Well.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
This time.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Just in general because you know, you saw Janna on
Dancing with the Stars, and so you reach out and
you say, listen, that was my dad, and I want
to connect, and you know, listen, seasons of life are crazy,
and Jana wasn't a really tumultuous one. So yeah, probably
at capacity at that point. But when you spoke to
(14:13):
her like the first time, did it just feel like
you got just another puzzle piece or did you have
more questions or both.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I think it was a puzzle piece. And then I
used to like write down all the questions. I'm like, oh,
maybe if we talked another time, then I could asked
for all this stuff. And then I think I realize
growing older that I shouldn't keep this because it's hurtful
for her at the end of the day, like it
happened to her, it didn't happen to me, like the
(14:42):
traumatic experience that my father did happened to Jana.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
But you're also trying to give you some grace, and
you're also trying to have a connection or a piece
or connect the dots with your with your father, and
so you know, there's a piece of me that's you know,
when I sa with you, it's like I just I
hear that and like you being like, can you just
kind of tell me the things he did? It's like
you want to like to connect, and you know, I
(15:12):
hope that I was able to give you some of
those pieces. But yeah, I mean it's it's obviously it's
it's not easy. And the last time that but also
you know, hearing the things like I didn't know how
he actually died and it wasn't am I allowed to
share how the.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, that's okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I just wanted to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
There were so many times when he would come back
from being out in the club, and again I'm not
I was never a club person. I didn't I didn't
like it, and he would come back and be really violent.
I would always think to myself, like was he on drugs?
And when he there was a worn out for his arrest.
What I was told was that he had committed suicide
(15:53):
by like splitting his wrists, and there was a time
when he had faked his suicide with a potato and
ketchup and like sent me a photo of it. The
first time I called him, the first time I called
the cops on him, and obviously I went back and
was with him, and you know, two weeks later was
when the actual incident, bigger incident went down. But what
(16:14):
I was told was that his brother found him like
committing suicide. And then when I got the call when
I was in Texas that he had actually killed himself,
I just thought that he had shot himself. And Brittany
had told me that it was a heroin overdose both times,
and it was a for me this I got a
(16:38):
piece of, Oh my god, like I had just like
a whole body like chills, like I knew he was
on drugs and I just I but I also don't
know like what the signs of that were. I was
so young that I wouldn't have even known where to
look or what to but it's like I was kind
of thought he was bipolar. Like that was where it
was very much like one minute, he would be kind
(17:00):
and everyone loved him, like my parents loved him, you know,
and which made me be thinking that I was the
crazy one, because two seconds later he would you know,
I bought some tilan al and some milk, and I
remember him screaming at me for buying this tilent on
milk and then shoving me in this stairwell of the
(17:22):
archdone apartments and being like, what like because I bought
milk and Thailand all like, and he just was like
he would have this like switch that would just go
from like nice to evil within moments, and it was
just like I didn't, which is why I just was.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Like, I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I just wanted to please him because I didn't want
to get hit or choked or you know, slammed up
against something. But it's so unpredictable. Yeah, And so I
was like maybe that was a drug thing or I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, and I think too, like, so I grew up
in a household that had a lot of raid, some
domestic violence, lots of alcoholism, drug addiction, and so I'll
never know either. And I there's such an imbalance, right,
So you wouldn't even know if if that person was
clean and sober, would they have an imbalance? We don't know.
(18:16):
But then they're also self medicating in a way that
never gives you a consistency. So and trying to predict
rage is actually impossible. In my experience as a child,
it would be you can't predict the things that would
set someone off or what would make them go over
the top. So that's like a helpless feeling in itself.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, because even in like our messages back and forth,
like it's one minute like, oh sweetie, I wish I
could be there, Oh sweetye, this too all caplocks texting
me of why can't you have a relationship with me?
Why don't you love me? Why can't you talk to me?
And it's like, well, how does it go from this?
So I can completely see the bipolarness or drug.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Use, right, Yeah, And so that was like that was
do you have any you think any other things that
you would be like that. I want to like, I
want to know this piece, like I think you are
trying to search for it was their goodness in him?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Is that like?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Or what else is like if you were like I
really want to know this piece, like do you feel
like you've gotten that from the family members that you've
talked to or cause again and I and I want
to I know it's my story, but this is also
your story. And I do want to apologize. It's got
to be hard having someone that you don't know speak
about someone that is your father, and so I apologize
(19:36):
if that's ever been something that's been challenging for you
to walk through because I I, you know, I don't
know what that feels like to not to have someone
talk about someone that I have. I've like you're like
when you've never met me, you know, and like someone
that you've also never met to Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I feel like, first of all, an apology for me.
It was not needed whatsoever. It's a hard suchuation. It's
definitely not something you thought one day it would be,
like in public or anything. And I think when I
heard it for the first time, I was like, no,
(20:14):
that's not my dad, Like what, And then hearing more
from other people, it kind of weighs heavy on you
a little bit because you're like, what is what? Why
did he do that?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
What?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
All? You go through the whys again, and I think
you have to realize that what he did to you
is not okay. What he did to the other people
was not okay, and he had to live with that,
and it's just so hard. I have questions, But I
(20:49):
don't have questions because we've talked. We talked the other
day and I got the story from you, which I
thank you for telling me because I know how hard
it is for you to tell that story again. And
how easy it isn't so I think when I saw
(21:10):
what happened, when I knew found out it was my dad.
I saw it on the People magazine. So I was working,
and on the People magazine was your picture and then
his mug shot. So that's how I was like, that's
my dad.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Wow. Sorry, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Still strikes a little something.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Sure, absolutely, I am remembering too that like when i've
because when we went to court, we never had an
(22:00):
actual trial. It was like, I don't know what it's called.
It was like a it was his I was with
the DA, his attorney. There was no jury. It was
like the trial before it would go to that. But
he had pleaded whatever that's called, like he like no,
like he like they gave him a bargain, yeah, which
(22:22):
is why I didn't go to an actual like trial
trial with a juror and stuff. But I do remember
at that time finding out that he was in jail
I didn't which I didn't know about for money laundering.
And then I do remember they said domestic I think
it was domestic abuse against somebody else to do. But
that's like all I do remember. Kind of I don't
(22:45):
know if there was anything else, But I mean there
was like the DA was like get ready, there's like
a whole rap sheet of it all.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
There's definitely multiple money launderings. I know that he money
laundered from pretty much anybody he was with, is what
I've heard. Yeah, and the DV like I said, I
know two people that that happened to mhm. And I
(23:15):
know the money laundering on my side of the family
was a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Do you know any does he had Did he have siblings?
Speaker 1 (23:25):
He had half half siblings, Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Which I didn't really.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Maybe spent maybe up up one hand a time with them,
like a couple of times, like there was an Have.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Either of you talked to those people, those siblings, Yeah,
she has since then.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Since he commits his side.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yes, Has that been a helpful piece of the puzzle
to know? You know, like, we know adult of your dad, right,
we know the adult version of your dad. I'm not
This is not me searching for closure for either of you,
or he for either of you. I just know there's
there was a place I got to when I could
understand the little boy version of my dad that helped
(24:06):
me personally just feel like like bigger than grace, like
a deeper compassion, maybe not excusing his behavior, but like
starting to understand how young him could become anger and
outrage him. Right, Yeah, when you met the siblings, did
you get any pieces of the story. Did either of
(24:28):
you feel like you got a better understanding of the
younger version of him?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
No? I don't think so. I had never heard anything
about when he was younger.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah I didn't.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I mean, he had told me his dad died, which
she said it was not true. So that's that was,
you know, when wow, when I had come back from
my silly Vegas trip and I was like.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
What did a hidjus Britney spears? Do you know?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I was like, you know, I went to Romania and
he disappeared, like he literally disappeared. And I remember writing
in my like I have a husband out there that
I don't even know where he's at, Like I mean,
like why I made the raious mistake in my life.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think I was.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Nineteen ynny young, young, like the I don't really remember that,
like twenty maybe twenty one. Yeah, so yeah, but it
was and he was older, like I don't even know,
like when was I don't even know when he was
born because I.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Don't know well, and if you knew, was it accurate?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Exactly? But yeah, I mean it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Again, he had told me his dad died, so nothing
that was ever coming from him was factual and that
and I think that's the hard piece. But for listeners
out there, how that have gone through something similar, that
don't have their dad present, that have maybe abandonment issues
or feeling not good enough or feeling like they weren't chosen.
(25:57):
What has been the best thing for you to know
your worth and to not go down? You know, like
what have you done like therapy? Like what other things
help you in those moments when that Maybe that's not
your belief or thought, but that's just what I would
make up would come up for me. I mean, I
know when my parents got divorced, I was like, Oh,
(26:17):
I'm not worthy of my dad to stay here. I'm
not I don't deserve that love, Like he's going to
go be with another family. So that's that was So
maybe that's me putting on my stuff on you, But
I guess what did that make you feel? And how
have you been able to overcome that?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Therapy?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Lots, yeah, therapy, Yeah, And what is your belief. Now
with it, I.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Believe that I am not him and his actions aren't me.
At the end of the day, I am who I
make myself be, and whatever he did is not who
I am.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Definitely, Yeah, a pretty mature and powerful statement to make.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Is there anything else that you would want people to
know or anything that y else? You just a'm like
you just like you want to share this piece.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That if you are blaming yourself for your parents' actions,
to not blame yourself and to start therapy and talk
to somebody. Always talk to somebody because closing down and
I used to close down a lot and not speak
(27:33):
and push people away and abandonment issues. And definitely talk
to people because people care.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Framer. Is there anything that you would want to pass along?
This is a pretty.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Both of you when you just said that though I'll
never forget something that your dad had said to me
that was not a nice thing, but he said be seen,
not heard, and you know it just like spoke when
you said, like speak your like to speak and be heard.
It's like that just like spoke to me and was
like a redirection like be heard, you know, and speak
(28:09):
your truth and don't just be in the shadows of
of that, and I just I want I always go
to like there's got to be And I know you
were trying to get at this a little bit too,
like there's I don't want to say that every that
anybody is all bad or all evil. You know, I
(28:30):
think they've gone through things they didn't know how to cope.
They maybe he had a sickness, you know, obviously he
was addicted to drugs. But you are again, you can
take that. You are the beautiful piece out of this,
you and your sisters. And I think that is the
goodness of him is in you, Like that, that is you,
That what he created, maybe not who he is, but
(28:53):
is is you.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
That's why I believe he made four girls and no
other voice.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
So I would agree that's a really powerful redirection from God. Yeah,
that's really powerful.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And in a way now, I mean even we spoke
about this pre show, was that I get to have
a different face to him now too, because always like
seeing his face would give me like that.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
You know, reaction.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
But now it's like I have I have you to
look at and go like, there is there is beauty
in what he was.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Thank you. I appreciate that yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And I really appreciate you coming on. I'm glad we've
been able to reconnect. And I am here so same.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I am here whenever you need me.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, and you know, being being a mom and we
are not We're quite close in age. I am older
than you a bit, but we are.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think it's only six years. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, so I'm like we are we are very close.
So that is interesting. Again, he was older issues. No,
there's no judgment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So the fact that we can even you know, laugh
and have you know, healing is is a beautiful thing.
And I just really appreciate you coming on, reaching out
and being persistent enough to put the pieces together for you.
And I think that says a lot about you and
your and your you know who you are.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Thank you, Thanks, Brett, and I appreciate you guys taking
me and having me talk about this.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
I'm really proud to know you both.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
All Right, girl, we'll chat soon, Yes, we will, Okay, Bye, Brittany, Bye.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
How are we feeling? You look like him? Yes? That weird?
That was tough.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah. I came over both of you. Yeah, it was
like that. When I saw her, I was like I
could see it. Yeah, but I just like kept looking
at her and was like, that's why I meant what
I said to her, Like, look at the she is
the most beautiful piece of him, you know. But it
was Yeah, that was that was tough. But I'm I'm
proud of her for coming on.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
She's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Okay, Ah, I'm really proud of you. We're going to
part to it and we're gonna have Amy Alexander come
on and talk about DV E, M, d R other
ways to heal. So stay tuned for the next episode
because it'll be one of one of the ways that
anyone going through emotional, verbally, physical, any kind of abuse,
(31:21):
and just therapy healing tips. Stay tuned for the next one.
Thanks for holding space, KB always, friend forever, my honor.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Bye.
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Podcast with it being October and Domestic Violence Awareness Month,
or I really wanted to bring more awareness to it
talk about it. And one of the people that reached
out that we talked about when I was doing Dancing
with the Stars and I came out about my domestic
(00:26):
violence history and being a DV victim. One of the
daughters that I didn't know about, had reached out to
me when I was on Dancing with the Stars and
obviously I was at the time going through turmoil with
my then husband. You know, we had it believed emailed,
(00:47):
but it was I kind of just had to distance
because it was just too much. And then she had
reached out about coming on the podcast, and you know,
we discussed it on here, like yeah, it was her
motivation and what was the reasoning, and you know, so
we had a conversation. I called her, well she'd emailed
me and then with the help of the producer and
(01:08):
then I said, yeah, let's get on the phone, like
let's have a conversation. And we had a conversation and
it was so just like I thought, I didn't need
any more pieces really from it. Sure, but there was
things that I've still discovered about him that blew my
(01:31):
mind but also gave me validation and like an Okay,
maybe this was I wasn't crazy.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I think that's the the key piece is people owning
it and validating I sit in a seat coming from
a home that had violence, and so the part that
I think I'm always missing is is probably the connective
(02:02):
tissue that you and Brittany are getting from that conversation. Yeah,
and I'm very much living a life that was my reality,
but it doesn't seem to be anybody else's reality. Right
is a very lonely place to.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Be, And I think I once we talked, I said,
you know what, this is actually how she's been able
to move through her life and piecing the pieces together.
I said, this is actually I think people do need
to hear this. I agree, but there are I do
have a couple more questions that I want to ask her,
(02:34):
and I'm open to the question she wants to ask me.
So she's here, but I also have this, like yet.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I wanted like a temperature check on how you know.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I've never seen her, so it's like, well, she had
resemblance of my abuser, Like every time I see his
and I just says, as, this is the piece that
I struggle with is on you know, on Google or whatever,
like his face, and I instantly just get this like
oh yeah, like gut punch when I see his face.
(03:03):
So I want I hopefully I can look at her
and see a beautiful side of someone that was a
monster to me. But the IAW can I say that
to her when she's like the beautiful piece of it?
So it's like I think it'll be good. Yeah, you know,
it's like I can re look at something I could
put a I could put a different face to it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, maybe this is the piece of the healing. Yeah.
I also think it's worth noting just for people listening
that like we're jumping right in today, but like there
has been my turn to cry. Yeah, very prayerful conversations
around every piece of what we're going to do in
these episodes, because this isn't light and I mean even
(03:45):
like the text exchange and like the temperature checks with
each other and with you know, Amy Alexander, who's going
to be in one of these episodes. Like just how
prayerful we are trying to be in the way that
we do this like we know it needs to be
done and that it needs a voice, and it needs
all of the validation and the recognition and awareness. And
(04:08):
also it's really heavy topics that haven't been so open
for us. Probably before we've talked high level about it,
but to get in the depth of it. So it's
been very prayerful and very thought out and I'm just
really proud of you already. So well, let's get Brittany on. Hi. Hi, Brittany, Hey, Brittany.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I'm already going to get emotional.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, we've already cried, so I want to hold both
of you.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I'm sorry, No, I'm sorry too.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Maybe I could start by just saying how brave I
think it is a both of you to how brave
and open it is for both of you to have
a heart willing to hear somebody else when it seems
like the common Denominator was probably rooted in some really
dark things, and so I think it's just worth like
(05:05):
maybe opening by saying, I think it's brave and I'm
really honored to share space with both of you when
you have hard conversations and share it in a way
that hopefully can bring some healing impact and awareness to
everybody that's listening, and I just have to say, you
are the most beautiful piece of him. Oh thank you,
You're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So, you know just happened in you know, I we
just spoke about how you know, we had a conversation,
and you know, there were things in that conversation where
I thought, you know, this could be really helpful for
other people to hear this, and you know, I'll just
give you the opportunity to to to kind of tell
me what you were also wanting and why you wanted
to also talk about it too, because I think what
(05:48):
you said was so beautiful as well, and you know
how you are trying to piece things together, so I'll
just let you take that away.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Definitely a hard topic to talk about because at the
end of the day, this person was my father, and
even though I didn't know him and I've known all
the bad things, I think it's still like you hope
there's some good in there, but you know there's not.
So I guess I've always been hopeful that someone would
(06:19):
say something good, you know, but at the end of
the day, there's nothing. And I think I've learned to
be okay with that, because that's not who I am
at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Did you ever get to meet your dad?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, that was a question too that I when I
hung up the phone, I'm like, I didn't even ask her.
I know, you said he wrote you letters that you
now kind of have traced back to when he was
in prison, But yeah, you never You actually never got
to physically meet him.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
No, I chose not to. He asked to meet me
when he was writing me those letters, and I was like, no,
this is not going to happen. I had a child.
I wasn't going to put that child into a situation
could not be good at one point because the way
he was talking to me was very manipulative. Also, so
(07:08):
even in messages I look back now being older, when
I'm younger, I'm like, oh, he's just trying to get
to know me. He's just you know, it's just the
way he talks. Now now looking back to him, like,
that's not how your father's supposed to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
What was your mom like, I guess I didn't even
know were they together, did or was it kind of
a I.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Have no idea. Unfortunately, me and my mom have a
great relationship, but we just don't talk about it. It's
hard on her, is hard on you. We've little things
here and there that I've heard from grandparents, but besides.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
That nothing they were never married or anything.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
No, they were never married. I don't believe he was
married to any of my siblings' moms.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's also news to me. I thought he was married
to the first one.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So no, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I mean, Brittany, I'm and this is no offense to
either parent. But that's like a lot for a child
to carry, right because place of origin matters. Right there,
you find a lot of adult children that even went
through adoption at some point, neither the closure of just
like seeing a face or knowing a name or knowing
the story, like belonging is like one of the basic
human needs, right, yeah, significance and belonging. So if you
(08:20):
have a mom, if you have a dad that you
don't know, and then you have a mom who you are,
in the sweetest, most bravest way possible, trying to protect
I can tell already, you know, because you want to
not break her heart wide open again? What does that
do to you, especially because you're a mom now, So
(08:41):
like I like in my own experience, I felt like
I gave my parents a lot of grace, probably way
too much grace, And then I felt like when I
became a mom, all of a sudden, I had no
grace because I thought, I know what it feels like
now to have this person, and I can't imagine ever
letting them feel unsafe or unseen or unheard or unprotected,
(09:04):
and you are now a mom, And it had a
little bit of both of those things. Even if your
mom means well, she's still doing that a little bit
on that side too. So how does that change when
you become a mom for you?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I think it's just changed because it's so much of
you want to raise your kids as Okay, you have
a grandma and that's all you have, right, Well, they
can only go to that to a certain age, a
certain age. Then they're starting to ask questions, well, why
don't I have a grandpa? Where's your dad? Where is this?
(09:37):
And it's kind of a thing where do you tell
them or you just leave out the blackburn and say, oh,
he's not here, he left. He left when I was young.
I've been very open with my children as I have
older ones and they know everything pretty much, and it
is just is what it is. I tell them everything.
(09:58):
I'm open with them because there's no point of hiding
it from them when eventually they're going to see things
from either pictures and be like, well, why is your
dad here in one picture the one picture I have,
but he's not another place?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You do have one? One picture of them.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
One photo? I have it right here, But yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
You're a baby in that photo.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I'm only two months old because he left when I
was two months.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And when he left, where did he go?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
No idea, no idea. I know he tried to take me,
essentially kidnapped me, and that's pretty much it. And then
my mom was like no, and my grandparents.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Ah, wow, I forgot to also ask this question, and
I don't know if I want to. A piece of
(11:01):
me was like, I don't even know if I want
to know the answer, because I don't want to be
the only one. But I knew there was one after
me that had I'd spoke to you about that wrote
to me that said he pushed it down the stairs
and that she was pregnant. Did you know of any
other girls that were abused that he was with?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, I know of two others.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
How many siblings do you have that I know of? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Four?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Okay, so you and four others.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Those me and four others from him?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And do you have you had any interaction with them?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I've met them all, Okay?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Are they lovely like you?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yes? I have a relationship with two of them.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's really special for you? Was it?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And you know, I think one of the reasons why
we talked to is that you've just been trying to
like put the pieces together. And has that been a
part of you being able to heal or is it
more of a like just like trying to understand or
trying to connect or I think he's.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Trying to understand And at the end of the day,
we all know he wasn't a good person. But I
think I look at it as unfortunately that man is
still my father. So I want to know, even if
it's the bad things, I want to know, do.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
You find any There's no right or wrong answer, and
no judgment either way. So I just want to preface
this because it could be feel deep. But do you
have any grace towards him? Is there any parts of
you that start to go, like you know, I wonder
what his life like, was, what his life was like
growing up, and what made him so angry and what
(12:40):
and listen, no excuse for any of this, right, we
all know that, but I do think it's worth just noting.
But you know, usually they'll say it's like very cliche,
but like hurt people, hurt people, So like what happened
to your dad before he was a dad?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah? I question that all the time. I mean, I've
gotten told that he would adopted, so it's like, oh,
was it because you were adopted supposedly? Or is it
like what happened? You can ask so many whys, but
at the end of the day, I can't. I can't
do that to myself either emotionally of why this, why this,
why this happened to me? So I think I've learned
(13:17):
to just be like, this is what happened, and this
is my life now, and I could take it as
it is.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
When you two spoke previously, did you feel what was
like one thing that kind of like did you feel
when you when you got off the phone? Was it relief?
Was it like I just want to know from each of.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You this put time or the first time.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Well.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
This time.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Just in general because you know, you saw Janna on
Dancing with the Stars, and so you reach out and
you say, listen, that was my dad, and I want
to connect, and you know, listen, seasons of life are crazy,
and Jana wasn't a really tumultuous one. So yeah, probably
at capacity at that point. But when you spoke to
(14:13):
her like the first time, did it just feel like
you got just another puzzle piece or did you have
more questions or both.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I think it was a puzzle piece. And then I
used to like write down all the questions. I'm like, oh,
maybe if we talked another time, then I could asked
for all this stuff. And then I think I realize
growing older that I shouldn't keep this because it's hurtful
for her at the end of the day, like it
happened to her, it didn't happen to me, like the
(14:42):
traumatic experience that my father did happened to Jana.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
But you're also trying to give you some grace, and
you're also trying to have a connection or a piece
or connect the dots with your with your father, and
so you know, there's a piece of me that's you know,
when I sa with you, it's like I just I
hear that and like you being like, can you just
kind of tell me the things he did? It's like
you want to like to connect, and you know, I
(15:12):
hope that I was able to give you some of
those pieces. But yeah, I mean it's it's obviously it's
it's not easy. And the last time that but also
you know, hearing the things like I didn't know how
he actually died and it wasn't am I allowed to
share how the.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, that's okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I just wanted to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
There were so many times when he would come back
from being out in the club, and again I'm not
I was never a club person. I didn't I didn't
like it, and he would come back and be really violent.
I would always think to myself, like was he on drugs?
And when he there was a worn out for his arrest.
What I was told was that he had committed suicide
(15:53):
by like splitting his wrists, and there was a time
when he had faked his suicide with a potato and
ketchup and like sent me a photo of it. The
first time I called him, the first time I called
the cops on him, and obviously I went back and
was with him, and you know, two weeks later was
when the actual incident, bigger incident went down. But what
(16:14):
I was told was that his brother found him like
committing suicide. And then when I got the call when
I was in Texas that he had actually killed himself,
I just thought that he had shot himself. And Brittany
had told me that it was a heroin overdose both times,
and it was a for me this I got a
(16:38):
piece of, Oh my god, like I had just like
a whole body like chills, like I knew he was
on drugs and I just I but I also don't
know like what the signs of that were. I was
so young that I wouldn't have even known where to
look or what to but it's like I was kind
of thought he was bipolar. Like that was where it
was very much like one minute, he would be kind
(17:00):
and everyone loved him, like my parents loved him, you know,
and which made me be thinking that I was the
crazy one, because two seconds later he would you know,
I bought some tilan al and some milk, and I
remember him screaming at me for buying this tilent on
milk and then shoving me in this stairwell of the
(17:22):
archdone apartments and being like, what like because I bought
milk and Thailand all like, and he just was like
he would have this like switch that would just go
from like nice to evil within moments, and it was
just like I didn't, which is why I just was.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Like, I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I just wanted to please him because I didn't want
to get hit or choked or you know, slammed up
against something. But it's so unpredictable. Yeah, And so I
was like maybe that was a drug thing or I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, and I think too, like, so I grew up
in a household that had a lot of raid, some
domestic violence, lots of alcoholism, drug addiction, and so I'll
never know either. And I there's such an imbalance, right,
So you wouldn't even know if if that person was
clean and sober, would they have an imbalance? We don't know.
(18:16):
But then they're also self medicating in a way that
never gives you a consistency. So and trying to predict
rage is actually impossible. In my experience as a child,
it would be you can't predict the things that would
set someone off or what would make them go over
the top. So that's like a helpless feeling in itself.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, because even in like our messages back and forth,
like it's one minute like, oh sweetie, I wish I
could be there, Oh sweetye, this too all caplocks texting
me of why can't you have a relationship with me?
Why don't you love me? Why can't you talk to me?
And it's like, well, how does it go from this?
So I can completely see the bipolarness or drug.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Use, right, Yeah, And so that was like that was
do you have any you think any other things that
you would be like that. I want to like, I
want to know this piece, like I think you are
trying to search for it was their goodness in him?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Is that like?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Or what else is like if you were like I
really want to know this piece, like do you feel
like you've gotten that from the family members that you've
talked to or cause again and I and I want
to I know it's my story, but this is also
your story. And I do want to apologize. It's got
to be hard having someone that you don't know speak
about someone that is your father, and so I apologize
(19:36):
if that's ever been something that's been challenging for you
to walk through because I I, you know, I don't
know what that feels like to not to have someone
talk about someone that I have. I've like you're like
when you've never met me, you know, and like someone
that you've also never met to Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I feel like, first of all, an apology for me.
It was not needed whatsoever. It's a hard suchuation. It's
definitely not something you thought one day it would be,
like in public or anything. And I think when I
heard it for the first time, I was like, no,
(20:14):
that's not my dad, Like what, And then hearing more
from other people, it kind of weighs heavy on you
a little bit because you're like, what is what? Why
did he do that?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
What?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
All? You go through the whys again, and I think
you have to realize that what he did to you
is not okay. What he did to the other people
was not okay, and he had to live with that,
and it's just so hard. I have questions, But I
(20:49):
don't have questions because we've talked. We talked the other
day and I got the story from you, which I
thank you for telling me because I know how hard
it is for you to tell that story again. And
how easy it isn't so I think when I saw
(21:10):
what happened, when I knew found out it was my dad.
I saw it on the People magazine. So I was working,
and on the People magazine was your picture and then
his mug shot. So that's how I was like, that's
my dad.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Wow. Sorry, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Still strikes a little something.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Sure, absolutely, I am remembering too that like when i've
because when we went to court, we never had an
(22:00):
actual trial. It was like, I don't know what it's called.
It was like a it was his I was with
the DA, his attorney. There was no jury. It was
like the trial before it would go to that. But
he had pleaded whatever that's called, like he like no,
like he like they gave him a bargain, yeah, which
(22:22):
is why I didn't go to an actual like trial
trial with a juror and stuff. But I do remember
at that time finding out that he was in jail
I didn't which I didn't know about for money laundering.
And then I do remember they said domestic I think
it was domestic abuse against somebody else to do. But
that's like all I do remember. Kind of I don't
(22:45):
know if there was anything else, But I mean there
was like the DA was like get ready, there's like
a whole rap sheet of it all.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
There's definitely multiple money launderings. I know that he money
laundered from pretty much anybody he was with, is what
I've heard. Yeah, and the DV like I said, I
know two people that that happened to mhm. And I
(23:15):
know the money laundering on my side of the family
was a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Do you know any does he had Did he have siblings?
Speaker 1 (23:25):
He had half half siblings, Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Which I didn't really.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Maybe spent maybe up up one hand a time with them,
like a couple of times, like there was an Have.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Either of you talked to those people, those siblings, Yeah,
she has since then.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Since he commits his side.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yes, Has that been a helpful piece of the puzzle
to know? You know, like, we know adult of your dad, right,
we know the adult version of your dad. I'm not
This is not me searching for closure for either of you,
or he for either of you. I just know there's
there was a place I got to when I could
understand the little boy version of my dad that helped
(24:06):
me personally just feel like like bigger than grace, like
a deeper compassion, maybe not excusing his behavior, but like
starting to understand how young him could become anger and
outrage him. Right, Yeah, when you met the siblings, did
you get any pieces of the story. Did either of
(24:28):
you feel like you got a better understanding of the
younger version of him?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
No? I don't think so. I had never heard anything
about when he was younger.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah I didn't.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I mean, he had told me his dad died, which
she said it was not true. So that's that was,
you know, when wow, when I had come back from
my silly Vegas trip and I was like.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
What did a hidjus Britney spears? Do you know?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I was like, you know, I went to Romania and
he disappeared, like he literally disappeared. And I remember writing
in my like I have a husband out there that
I don't even know where he's at, Like I mean,
like why I made the raious mistake in my life.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think I was.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Nineteen ynny young, young, like the I don't really remember that,
like twenty maybe twenty one. Yeah, so yeah, but it
was and he was older, like I don't even know,
like when was I don't even know when he was
born because I.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Don't know well, and if you knew, was it accurate?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Exactly? But yeah, I mean it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Again, he had told me his dad died, so nothing
that was ever coming from him was factual and that
and I think that's the hard piece. But for listeners
out there, how that have gone through something similar, that
don't have their dad present, that have maybe abandonment issues
or feeling not good enough or feeling like they weren't chosen.
(25:57):
What has been the best thing for you to know
your worth and to not go down? You know, like
what have you done like therapy? Like what other things
help you in those moments when that Maybe that's not
your belief or thought, but that's just what I would
make up would come up for me. I mean, I
know when my parents got divorced, I was like, Oh,
(26:17):
I'm not worthy of my dad to stay here. I'm
not I don't deserve that love, Like he's going to
go be with another family. So that's that was So
maybe that's me putting on my stuff on you, But
I guess what did that make you feel? And how
have you been able to overcome that?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Therapy?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Lots, yeah, therapy, Yeah, And what is your belief. Now
with it, I.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Believe that I am not him and his actions aren't me.
At the end of the day, I am who I
make myself be, and whatever he did is not who
I am.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Definitely, Yeah, a pretty mature and powerful statement to make.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Is there anything else that you would want people to
know or anything that y else? You just a'm like
you just like you want to share this piece.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That if you are blaming yourself for your parents' actions,
to not blame yourself and to start therapy and talk
to somebody. Always talk to somebody because closing down and
I used to close down a lot and not speak
(27:33):
and push people away and abandonment issues. And definitely talk
to people because people care.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Framer. Is there anything that you would want to pass along?
This is a pretty.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Both of you when you just said that though I'll
never forget something that your dad had said to me
that was not a nice thing, but he said be seen,
not heard, and you know it just like spoke when
you said, like speak your like to speak and be heard.
It's like that just like spoke to me and was
like a redirection like be heard, you know, and speak
(28:09):
your truth and don't just be in the shadows of
of that, and I just I want I always go
to like there's got to be And I know you
were trying to get at this a little bit too,
like there's I don't want to say that every that
anybody is all bad or all evil. You know, I
(28:30):
think they've gone through things they didn't know how to cope.
They maybe he had a sickness, you know, obviously he
was addicted to drugs. But you are again, you can
take that. You are the beautiful piece out of this,
you and your sisters. And I think that is the
goodness of him is in you, Like that, that is you,
That what he created, maybe not who he is, but
(28:53):
is is you.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
That's why I believe he made four girls and no
other voice.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
So I would agree that's a really powerful redirection from God. Yeah,
that's really powerful.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And in a way now, I mean even we spoke
about this pre show, was that I get to have
a different face to him now too, because always like
seeing his face would give me like that.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
You know, reaction.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
But now it's like I have I have you to
look at and go like, there is there is beauty
in what he was.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Thank you. I appreciate that yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And I really appreciate you coming on. I'm glad we've
been able to reconnect. And I am here so same.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I am here whenever you need me.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, and you know, being being a mom and we
are not We're quite close in age. I am older
than you a bit, but we are.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think it's only six years. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, so I'm like we are we are very close.
So that is interesting. Again, he was older issues. No,
there's no judgment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So the fact that we can even you know, laugh
and have you know, healing is is a beautiful thing.
And I just really appreciate you coming on, reaching out
and being persistent enough to put the pieces together for you.
And I think that says a lot about you and
your and your you know who you are.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Thank you, Thanks, Brett, and I appreciate you guys taking
me and having me talk about this.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
I'm really proud to know you both.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
All Right, girl, we'll chat soon, Yes, we will, Okay, Bye, Brittany, Bye.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
How are we feeling? You look like him? Yes? That weird?
That was tough.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah. I came over both of you. Yeah, it was
like that. When I saw her, I was like I
could see it. Yeah, but I just like kept looking
at her and was like, that's why I meant what
I said to her, Like, look at the she is
the most beautiful piece of him, you know. But it
was Yeah, that was that was tough. But I'm I'm
proud of her for coming on.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
She's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Okay, Ah, I'm really proud of you. We're going to
part to it and we're gonna have Amy Alexander come
on and talk about DV E, M, d R other
ways to heal. So stay tuned for the next episode
because it'll be one of one of the ways that
anyone going through emotional, verbally, physical, any kind of abuse,
(31:21):
and just therapy healing tips. Stay tuned for the next one.
Thanks for holding space, KB always, friend forever, my honor.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Bye.
Host
Jana Kramer
Popular Podcasts
Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio
Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.