July 9, 2025 • 22 mins
It’s time to talk about sex. Jana and Allan connect with intimacy expert Dr. Viviana Coles to find answers to all the sexual questions you’re afraid to ask. How much sex should most couples have per week? Is masturbation healthy in a committed relationship? And what is the biggest cause of a bad sex life in relationships?
Plus, find out why you might want to practice some “stealth seductions”!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
We got a special guest on this week's Adult Education.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Her name is doctor Vivianna Coles.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified
sex therapists with over twenty years of experience. We've got
some juicy questions We're going to ask her and get
her hot hot takes on all of it her very
how should we say, knowledgeable and professional take.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Let's get her on.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
How are you.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Hello, Jenna?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
How are you good? To see you good?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Have you been?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
There's been a lot of fun stuff going on. But
life is full.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
How about y'all?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh good?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, you know, summer kids, the whole thing. So it's
it's interesting because finding time for sex is a little
bit harder when there's.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
A lot of you know, when you are all out
of your.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Team, you know, because I feel like when it's I
was just talking to a girlfriend, it's like when it's
back to school, it's like, okay, I know, then buses
at this time, and then I can do workout at
this time. It's always a kind of a very scheduled
then thing, which you know, brings me to the topic
of then sex, because I'm curious for you and through
all your work, Like, I'm sure you've been asked this
(01:24):
a million times, but what I'm also sure it's different
for different couples. But what do you see as like, Okay,
this is the magic number that couples should be having
this amount of sex this time, like this many times
a week.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
So you'd be surprised at how many people don't know
what works for them as a couple. They just kind
of do whatever or don't do whatever. So I think
a lot of couples need to be asking each other
this as partners. My recommendation, as an expert in this
field and having worked with at this point thousands of
(01:59):
couples is do something sensual or sexual or both at
least twice a week. And that does not have to
include intercourse each time, but you do want to be aiming,
of course, if you're capable in that way, if you
have that ability to have intercourse at least once a
(02:22):
week and then do something sensual for that other time. Hey,
if three or four times a week or daily works
for you, I am not going to tell you don't
do that, but if it works for you, I mean
as a couple, and that's not often the case some people.
You know, most people have different desire levels and want
to be able to connect with their partner whenever they're
(02:44):
not doing anything else.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
It's like, okay, that's the go too.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
But for most people, doing something twice a week can
be doable, even with.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Kids, right, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's almost like I always tell him, I like, you
got to get me though, like you can't if it's
too late, like I'm too tired.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
You know, everybody is thinking ten o'clock, ten thirty.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
They're like, Okay, that's when we're winding down from the day,
and that's when most people.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Are like, I don't want to be touched.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I'm tired.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I've been like asking questions all throughout the day, like
I'm like I'm done, Like I want to just.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Be done exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And so the other thing is that most of our
testosterone levels are highest during those.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Morning early early mornings, so two to six am.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So a lot of people will say I usually feel
especially men especially, they will feel like having sex first
thing in the morning, but that's when their female partners
are usually like, Okay, I have this long list of
things to do before seven am, and sex is not
going to be.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
One of them.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, that's yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
The only time that sex is ever on the cards
for me in the morning is if we're on vacation
and he's like, oh, I don't like morning usually, and
I was like, because there's a laundry list literally of
things to do. So I'm like, but when we're at
this beautiful there's nothing to do.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, okay, so who cares if relate to the buffet,
I don't care exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
No.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Is that a thing where it's men who are predominantly
driving more for sex and the more than women. Is
that an actual yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And it's going to put it out there.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
A lot of men experience who are are feeling healthy
and still vigorous will have morning wood and they want
to do something with.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It makes sense. It's very cave manlike, you know you well,
you're here, you're.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
High, I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And unfortunately for most men who are struggling with their
partners with discrepancy or just timing or not being on
the same page about scheduling, or spontaneous desire all of that,
they will then be like, Okay, well I'm going to
go masturbate, which is fine. But they feel like it's
something that they're having to do, not something that they're
(05:01):
looking forward to. With self care, it's almost like a oh, well,
this is not a great option, but it's the only
option for a lot of men to feel like they
can release that tension first thing in the morning and
they can get their day going.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I'm curious, as you know, as a therapist in your field,
what percentage of women don't mind the other person masturbating
versus like like one that cares versus one that's like, oh,
I don't care at all. Like I'm just I'm curious,
like where women are? Good question, where women fall on
(05:37):
that line?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Great question? And I actually I can't give you a
good answer.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I can tell you what I know of just based
off of my experience talking to couples very openly about this.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Most women have issue with it. Yeah, they take issue with.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And they feel possibly threatened or like their partner is substituting,
or more often than not, it's because it has become
something where then their partner feels like, well, I can't
be with you because I just masturbated this morning or
this afternoon, or and then it's like oh great, you
know I don't want too often, but we get this opportunity,
(06:15):
and now you can't There's so much more to it, right,
You can't just say it's a post to be equal
c But it can become problematic when that is the
reason that they're not able to perform with their partner,
even if, like their partner only asked once that week,
and it just so happens coincide all of a sudden, Oh, well,
(06:35):
you know, you masturbate too much, and there are men
who do, and the men I haven't heard as much.
That doesn't mean that's not the case, but I know
that there are a lot of men who will start
to over time, just masturbate anytime that they're bored down time,
if they're at work.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Lunch hour.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It's kind of It can become habit. It can become
the go to, like, well, I have nothing else to do,
why not? It feels good, It's an escape. I'm so stressed.
This is a great stress reliever.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Sometimes that can cause problems for partners. Sometimes it's like,
go for it.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
But in your office you see it more of a
problem than not.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
It seems to come up as more of a problem.
A lot of couples what i'll tell you is they
just don't ever ask. It's like, don't ask, don't tell.
They just don't talk about it. They don't want to know.
They may not know how they feel about it or
would think like or they're just too embarrassed to share
about it. There's still a lot of shame surround being
masturbation and even mutual masturbation. A lot of people don't
(07:37):
talk about it, but they will do it, they just
don't want to like. I think there's also just the
connotation with the word masturbation as being something that is
a very, very base sort of experience. It's not something
that you know, people who are in charge of their
sexuality do very often when.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Self pleasure, self touch.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
All of that is like, it's so good for you,
there's so many physiological and psychological benefits.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
I think that. So if you flip that situation, and
I understand why a woman would not want her husband, boyfriend,
partner to masturbate, the same for guys as well. I
wouldn't want I wouldn't like it if I knew you
were masturbating. Really no, I mean not not. I don't
(08:25):
really ask, but there is a question.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I like that I don't.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
No, not not ever. But if if I knew that
it was it was effecting as I knew that you
were wanting to do that more than you were wanting
to or I was to have sex, and would it
would be an issue.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, And that's the point Alan is like, if you
feel like it is becoming something that is coming between y'all,
then But that's kind of the case for anything. It
could be work, it could be the someone, it could
be you know, dependents or friends who are going through issues.
There's so many things that can between a couple. But
healthy sex, healthy sexuality, healthy you know, becoming physically healthy
(09:08):
mentally healthy does include our sexuality. So we don't want
to take it off of the table. I think a
lot of people will think, well, I don't want you
to ever masturbate.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
You have me for that. Don't I hear that a lot.
I'm down here in Houston.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I don't hear it as much in LA or New York,
but I'm when I'm seeing my clients from here in Houston,
that comes up a lot, almost like a no, no, no,
like come to me first. And I think a lot
of men would say that that's how they feel it's like, look,
if you ever want to get off, come to me first,
Please give me first option.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
And I get it.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But sometimes it's just easier to relax and to be
on your own. Typically a lot of women will have
responsive desire that includes relaxing at home and it's quiet
and nobody's here, and now I get to take a
shower and do my grooming and I can light a
cannel and listen to that audio erotica, you know, and
all of a sudden, it's like, oh, this is a
(10:04):
nice little self care moment, and I wouldn't want you
to begrudge anyone that.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Okay, So I I have a question, right, So since
I've met since I met Jana and we've subsequently get
married and had a baby and stuff, there's no point
and I can be really honest in this, right, there's
no point where I actually feel like master way, Oh,
we have a what I think is a healthy sex life,
so I would never like and I love being close
(10:45):
to and making love to her and having an essential
and physical moments. So there's a there's a part of
me is like, I'm not gonna I know it's going
to come, so I'm not going to ruin it by
doing what I need to do selfishly for myself to
then and the many shall ruin the time that we
have together. So I just therefore I just don't feel
like doing it because I would rather have hot and
(11:08):
then go into the bathroom or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And just I don't hate that answer.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Whether it's unless I would when I when I was single,
I would muster be a lot. Okay, Well I don't, Okay,
I don't feel like it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It's very important, especially for men, because you know, the
AMA wants us to promote healthy prostate and public floor
functioning for everyone, but especially prostate obviously for men. And
so three to four times a week of having ejaculation
experiences can be really good for you. And some people
(11:46):
that's just not going to happen with a partner. Maybe
they don't live together, maybe they live and they're traveling
a lot for work, maybe they have health issues, whatever
it is, maybe they're going through a rough patch in
their relationship. So we always want to encourage that's sort
of bonding with yourself. I you know, you said the
word selfish. I guess it could be selfish if you
feel like you're intentionally doing it. As a way to
(12:09):
avoid time with Dana. I don't get the sense that
that would be the case, So I don't see it
as selfish.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Can you tell me? Have you like do y'all just
you're with each.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Other every day weeks on end, like there are no
times apart.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
No, we don't really have really, No, they'll bepds, will
will travel a lot, but typically it's like.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's a week.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, So I'm glad that's founds like just a flow
that works for y'all. For a lot of people that's
not the case. Or maybe maybe some men will say,
you know, I only really ever feel like masturbating three
or four times a month, and that's fine too. There's
no like magic number. I just wouldn't want anyone to
feel like they're doing something wrong or shaming them if
(12:56):
they do really enjoy having that pleasure and having that release,
because there is there is the physiological side of it
that our bodies may not ever get. Some people don't experience,
especially women have trouble experiencing orgasms, so they don't necessarily
get that full release without platorial stimulation, without possibly a vibrator,
(13:19):
and so if they're not able to masturbate they may
not ever have a partnered orgasm.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, is it true to say?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I mean a girlfriend had told me this that, like
she has to have a vibrator because she's actually law.
She just can't have sex with their husband now because
it's like the got used to the like vibration of
a vibrator.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Yeah, so that can happen.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I don't want anybody to be like, you know, ban
vibrators don't do that, but that can happen. So I
am constantly encouraging anyone who does use vibrators, men, women, whoever,
to make sure that they are also able to experience
their own you know, masturbatory sperience is without anything that
(14:02):
could not be replicated by a partner. Nobody's hands, fingers, tongues,
penises are ever going to be able to replicate that vibration.
So I would say at least one out of every
four masturbation experiences to not use a vibrator, just so
that you don't get desensitized to just using your fingers
(14:23):
or using your partner's hand or whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
What do you see as the biggest issue in a
relationship when couples aren't having sex orse you know, touch.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
If it's not caused by relationship issues, which often it is,
and that's the majority of what I see. If it's
not that, then it's usually high levels of stress that
are killing desire. And most people are struggling with stress
at any given moment and they don't really know how
(14:58):
to get.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So for a all of you who want to avoid
having long term sexual issues with your partner, make sure
you're dealing with your stress levels.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Keep those as low as possible.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Non existent are the days where stress is just out
that you know, not even a possibility you're going to
be stressed. But how you deal with it is an
investment in your relationship and in your sexual life with
your partner. So I would just say work on your stress.
Anything that you can do to adminis stress and to
increase that like feeling of ease is really good for
your sex side.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Talk to us about stealth seduction.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
What is that stealth seduction?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, so that it sounds like it's familiar, because I
tend to call that pillow talk. It's the instances in
between sexual experiences where you feel like it's a look,
it's a touch, it's a joke, it's a this feeling
of like, you know, I want you, you know that
(15:57):
I could, I would if I could, and that you
feel the same way back. And I feel like it's
possible that the two of you have a lot of
that that feeling of like I'm going to wear this
color that I know he loves, or I'm going to
make sure that I've wiped.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Down the island and Albert to sea. I'm trying like
she likes. So you know, it's a little bit like
choor play. I would imagine it's also.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Like play sounds hot, that's like the hottest thing you've
said the entire time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Chore play that gets you, that gets me, It.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Wouldn't it wouldn't be too play. If you've seen how
I load the dushwasher, you got to work on that one.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I loveashure because my way works, so when my husband
doesn't do it.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
That is not seductive.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
The idea that you are constantly seeking ways to attract
your partner, not in like a really pressure filled way.
That stealth seduction part of it is like just making
sure that you are respectful in your tone, that you're
avoiding scoffing or rolling your eyes, or that you're being
mindful of their mood and maybe do you need a hug.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
All of that can be very attractive.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
You also work with people on a fair recovery, and
obviously a lot of people that have followed my journey
know what you know I went through, And so many
people still ask me, like, you know, do you think
it can work? And you know, I have my own
personal beliefs on it, and I do believe that it
can if it's a one time thing and the repeated
(17:34):
the repetitiveness of it, or like the act continuing over
and over is what I think kills it. But for you,
what is your biggest tip with a fair recovery for
people that are wanting to seek help or wanting to
know can it work?
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah? I think we first connected back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It was a really tough time and I remember you
sharing so many helpful tips and ideas and just being
so vulnerable and the way that you shared about that.
And I think for a lot of people they don't
realize how it feels to be in a relationship where
trust is not just low but gone, but being tied
(18:16):
to that person, being either trauma bonded or love bonded
with somebody that you just don't trust. It's a really
weird foreign space and most people don't know how to
navigate it without professional help.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
So top tip would be to reach out for help.
This is what I do.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Unfortunately, it's a part of my practice daily working with
people because there is no one way. You're not going
to read a book and know exactly how to work
through an affair. You're not going to speak to a
friend who's been through it and be able to work
through it. It's something that you're both going to have
to give a lot of yourselves, a lot of energy.
(18:55):
And look, it's okay if you don't want to. Some
people don't want to spend the next three months, three years,
thirty years working through the aftermath of an affair, and
that's okay too. I know that it can be very
difficult to do that, and for both parties, not just
the betrayer but the betrayed partner.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
And it's not a straight road.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Just because one party says, hey, I'm going to give
you a second chance, how that looks may not work
for the person who did the wrong, and they may
decide six months a year down the road, especially come
the anniversary time of disclosure. They may decide like, hey,
(19:37):
I can't live like this anymore. I've decided I don't
want to be in a relationship where trust is just
not possible, and every that's obviously everyone's right. Just because
you give somebody a second chance doesn't mean that they
want it. So checking in about that can also be
important too, just so that it doesn't feel like one
person's overfunctioning.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
What is your number one kind of tip for that though,
to be going through? Is it like, what do you
say that you think helps the most?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Yeah, I say this all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
When you've cheated on your partner, you need to imagine
that you grab them and threw them into a pile
of crap. You threw them in there and it's deep
and they're struggling to get out of it, just because
you have stopped cheating. If that's your reality, you have
(20:31):
stopped cheating, and you're outside of the pile of crap
and you're over here and.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
You're telling them, hey, come here, get out of there.
You can breathe over here. It's so much better over here.
Just because you feel that way doesn't mean it's possible
for them to do this.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
You have to get into the pile of crap, hold
their hand, lift them up, push them out, hold walk
with them.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Assuring them all the way.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And a lot of people are not up for that task,
but that's exactly what needs to happen in order to
even remotely have a chance to work through it. So
if you know yourself and you know that you're not
going to be able to hold your partner's hand through
whatever they're going to go through, then don't ask for
a second chance.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Just move on.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Let them move on, because otherwise it's going to be
a world of hurt over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Amen to that.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, agreed, Agreed again. Love having you on. You are fantastic.
Where can our listeners? Do you do telehealth at all
or are you just based in Texas?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
No, Actually it's an interesting time.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I'm going to start seeing clients in New York in person,
California in person, in La So Manhattan, LA, and of
courseon here in Houston in person. I usually see couples
in person for that first session and then we move
into virtual just it's easier that way. But yes, I'm
seeing clients every day in one way, shape or form.
All they have to do is go over to doctor
(21:55):
Viviana dot com. You can spell out doctor or LA
Relationship Ship Therapy dot com, n YC Relationship Therapy dot
com or Houston Relationship Therapy dot com.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
But yeah, you can find me. Just google me, doctor
Vivian Coles and Ashawa.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Awesome. Thank you so much much. You appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Guys, I appreciate you. Take care and well, thank you
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
We got a special guest on this week's Adult Education.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Her name is doctor Vivianna Coles.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified
sex therapists with over twenty years of experience. We've got
some juicy questions We're going to ask her and get
her hot hot takes on all of it her very
how should we say, knowledgeable and professional take.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Let's get her on.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
How are you.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Hello, Jenna?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
How are you good? To see you good?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Have you been?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
There's been a lot of fun stuff going on. But
life is full.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
How about y'all?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh good?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, you know, summer kids, the whole thing. So it's
it's interesting because finding time for sex is a little
bit harder when there's.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
A lot of you know, when you are all out
of your.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Team, you know, because I feel like when it's I
was just talking to a girlfriend, it's like when it's
back to school, it's like, okay, I know, then buses
at this time, and then I can do workout at
this time. It's always a kind of a very scheduled
then thing, which you know, brings me to the topic
of then sex, because I'm curious for you and through
all your work, Like, I'm sure you've been asked this
(01:24):
a million times, but what I'm also sure it's different
for different couples. But what do you see as like, Okay,
this is the magic number that couples should be having
this amount of sex this time, like this many times
a week.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
So you'd be surprised at how many people don't know
what works for them as a couple. They just kind
of do whatever or don't do whatever. So I think
a lot of couples need to be asking each other
this as partners. My recommendation, as an expert in this
field and having worked with at this point thousands of
(01:59):
couples is do something sensual or sexual or both at
least twice a week. And that does not have to
include intercourse each time, but you do want to be aiming,
of course, if you're capable in that way, if you
have that ability to have intercourse at least once a
(02:22):
week and then do something sensual for that other time. Hey,
if three or four times a week or daily works
for you, I am not going to tell you don't
do that, but if it works for you, I mean
as a couple, and that's not often the case some people.
You know, most people have different desire levels and want
to be able to connect with their partner whenever they're
(02:44):
not doing anything else.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
It's like, okay, that's the go too.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
But for most people, doing something twice a week can
be doable, even with.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Kids, right, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's almost like I always tell him, I like, you
got to get me though, like you can't if it's
too late, like I'm too tired.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
You know, everybody is thinking ten o'clock, ten thirty.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
They're like, Okay, that's when we're winding down from the day,
and that's when most people.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Are like, I don't want to be touched.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I'm tired.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I've been like asking questions all throughout the day, like
I'm like I'm done, Like I want to just.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Be done exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And so the other thing is that most of our
testosterone levels are highest during those.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Morning early early mornings, so two to six am.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So a lot of people will say I usually feel
especially men especially, they will feel like having sex first
thing in the morning, but that's when their female partners
are usually like, Okay, I have this long list of
things to do before seven am, and sex is not
going to be.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
One of them.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, that's yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
The only time that sex is ever on the cards
for me in the morning is if we're on vacation
and he's like, oh, I don't like morning usually, and
I was like, because there's a laundry list literally of
things to do. So I'm like, but when we're at
this beautiful there's nothing to do.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, okay, so who cares if relate to the buffet,
I don't care exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
No.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Is that a thing where it's men who are predominantly
driving more for sex and the more than women. Is
that an actual yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And it's going to put it out there.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
A lot of men experience who are are feeling healthy
and still vigorous will have morning wood and they want
to do something with.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It makes sense. It's very cave manlike, you know you well,
you're here, you're.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
High, I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And unfortunately for most men who are struggling with their
partners with discrepancy or just timing or not being on
the same page about scheduling, or spontaneous desire all of that,
they will then be like, Okay, well I'm going to
go masturbate, which is fine. But they feel like it's
something that they're having to do, not something that they're
(05:01):
looking forward to. With self care, it's almost like a oh, well,
this is not a great option, but it's the only
option for a lot of men to feel like they
can release that tension first thing in the morning and
they can get their day going.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I'm curious, as you know, as a therapist in your field,
what percentage of women don't mind the other person masturbating
versus like like one that cares versus one that's like, oh,
I don't care at all. Like I'm just I'm curious,
like where women are? Good question, where women fall on
(05:37):
that line?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Great question? And I actually I can't give you a
good answer.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I can tell you what I know of just based
off of my experience talking to couples very openly about this.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Most women have issue with it. Yeah, they take issue with.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And they feel possibly threatened or like their partner is substituting,
or more often than not, it's because it has become
something where then their partner feels like, well, I can't
be with you because I just masturbated this morning or
this afternoon, or and then it's like oh great, you
know I don't want too often, but we get this opportunity,
(06:15):
and now you can't There's so much more to it, right,
You can't just say it's a post to be equal
c But it can become problematic when that is the
reason that they're not able to perform with their partner,
even if, like their partner only asked once that week,
and it just so happens coincide all of a sudden, Oh, well,
(06:35):
you know, you masturbate too much, and there are men
who do, and the men I haven't heard as much.
That doesn't mean that's not the case, but I know
that there are a lot of men who will start
to over time, just masturbate anytime that they're bored down time,
if they're at work.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Lunch hour.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It's kind of It can become habit. It can become
the go to, like, well, I have nothing else to do,
why not? It feels good, It's an escape. I'm so stressed.
This is a great stress reliever.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Sometimes that can cause problems for partners. Sometimes it's like,
go for it.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
But in your office you see it more of a
problem than not.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
It seems to come up as more of a problem.
A lot of couples what i'll tell you is they
just don't ever ask. It's like, don't ask, don't tell.
They just don't talk about it. They don't want to know.
They may not know how they feel about it or
would think like or they're just too embarrassed to share
about it. There's still a lot of shame surround being
masturbation and even mutual masturbation. A lot of people don't
(07:37):
talk about it, but they will do it, they just
don't want to like. I think there's also just the
connotation with the word masturbation as being something that is
a very, very base sort of experience. It's not something
that you know, people who are in charge of their
sexuality do very often when.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Self pleasure, self touch.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
All of that is like, it's so good for you,
there's so many physiological and psychological benefits.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
I think that. So if you flip that situation, and
I understand why a woman would not want her husband, boyfriend,
partner to masturbate, the same for guys as well. I
wouldn't want I wouldn't like it if I knew you
were masturbating. Really no, I mean not not. I don't
(08:25):
really ask, but there is a question.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I like that I don't.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
No, not not ever. But if if I knew that
it was it was effecting as I knew that you
were wanting to do that more than you were wanting
to or I was to have sex, and would it
would be an issue.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, And that's the point Alan is like, if you
feel like it is becoming something that is coming between y'all,
then But that's kind of the case for anything. It
could be work, it could be the someone, it could
be you know, dependents or friends who are going through issues.
There's so many things that can between a couple. But
healthy sex, healthy sexuality, healthy you know, becoming physically healthy
(09:08):
mentally healthy does include our sexuality. So we don't want
to take it off of the table. I think a
lot of people will think, well, I don't want you
to ever masturbate.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
You have me for that. Don't I hear that a lot.
I'm down here in Houston.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I don't hear it as much in LA or New York,
but I'm when I'm seeing my clients from here in Houston,
that comes up a lot, almost like a no, no, no,
like come to me first. And I think a lot
of men would say that that's how they feel it's like, look,
if you ever want to get off, come to me first,
Please give me first option.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
And I get it.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But sometimes it's just easier to relax and to be
on your own. Typically a lot of women will have
responsive desire that includes relaxing at home and it's quiet
and nobody's here, and now I get to take a
shower and do my grooming and I can light a
cannel and listen to that audio erotica, you know, and
all of a sudden, it's like, oh, this is a
(10:04):
nice little self care moment, and I wouldn't want you
to begrudge anyone that.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Okay, So I I have a question, right, So since
I've met since I met Jana and we've subsequently get
married and had a baby and stuff, there's no point
and I can be really honest in this, right, there's
no point where I actually feel like master way, Oh,
we have a what I think is a healthy sex life,
so I would never like and I love being close
(10:45):
to and making love to her and having an essential
and physical moments. So there's a there's a part of
me is like, I'm not gonna I know it's going
to come, so I'm not going to ruin it by
doing what I need to do selfishly for myself to
then and the many shall ruin the time that we
have together. So I just therefore I just don't feel
like doing it because I would rather have hot and
(11:08):
then go into the bathroom or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And just I don't hate that answer.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Whether it's unless I would when I when I was single,
I would muster be a lot. Okay, Well I don't, Okay,
I don't feel like it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It's very important, especially for men, because you know, the
AMA wants us to promote healthy prostate and public floor
functioning for everyone, but especially prostate obviously for men. And
so three to four times a week of having ejaculation
experiences can be really good for you. And some people
(11:46):
that's just not going to happen with a partner. Maybe
they don't live together, maybe they live and they're traveling
a lot for work, maybe they have health issues, whatever
it is, maybe they're going through a rough patch in
their relationship. So we always want to encourage that's sort
of bonding with yourself. I you know, you said the
word selfish. I guess it could be selfish if you
feel like you're intentionally doing it. As a way to
(12:09):
avoid time with Dana. I don't get the sense that
that would be the case, So I don't see it
as selfish.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Can you tell me? Have you like do y'all just
you're with each.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Other every day weeks on end, like there are no
times apart.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
No, we don't really have really, No, they'll bepds, will
will travel a lot, but typically it's like.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's a week.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, So I'm glad that's founds like just a flow
that works for y'all. For a lot of people that's
not the case. Or maybe maybe some men will say,
you know, I only really ever feel like masturbating three
or four times a month, and that's fine too. There's
no like magic number. I just wouldn't want anyone to
feel like they're doing something wrong or shaming them if
(12:56):
they do really enjoy having that pleasure and having that release,
because there is there is the physiological side of it
that our bodies may not ever get. Some people don't experience,
especially women have trouble experiencing orgasms, so they don't necessarily
get that full release without platorial stimulation, without possibly a vibrator,
(13:19):
and so if they're not able to masturbate they may
not ever have a partnered orgasm.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, is it true to say?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I mean a girlfriend had told me this that, like
she has to have a vibrator because she's actually law.
She just can't have sex with their husband now because
it's like the got used to the like vibration of
a vibrator.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Yeah, so that can happen.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I don't want anybody to be like, you know, ban
vibrators don't do that, but that can happen. So I
am constantly encouraging anyone who does use vibrators, men, women, whoever,
to make sure that they are also able to experience
their own you know, masturbatory sperience is without anything that
(14:02):
could not be replicated by a partner. Nobody's hands, fingers, tongues,
penises are ever going to be able to replicate that vibration.
So I would say at least one out of every
four masturbation experiences to not use a vibrator, just so
that you don't get desensitized to just using your fingers
(14:23):
or using your partner's hand or whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
What do you see as the biggest issue in a
relationship when couples aren't having sex orse you know, touch.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
If it's not caused by relationship issues, which often it is,
and that's the majority of what I see. If it's
not that, then it's usually high levels of stress that
are killing desire. And most people are struggling with stress
at any given moment and they don't really know how
(14:58):
to get.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So for a all of you who want to avoid
having long term sexual issues with your partner, make sure
you're dealing with your stress levels.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Keep those as low as possible.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Non existent are the days where stress is just out
that you know, not even a possibility you're going to
be stressed. But how you deal with it is an
investment in your relationship and in your sexual life with
your partner. So I would just say work on your stress.
Anything that you can do to adminis stress and to
increase that like feeling of ease is really good for
your sex side.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Talk to us about stealth seduction.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
What is that stealth seduction?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, so that it sounds like it's familiar, because I
tend to call that pillow talk. It's the instances in
between sexual experiences where you feel like it's a look,
it's a touch, it's a joke, it's a this feeling
of like, you know, I want you, you know that
(15:57):
I could, I would if I could, and that you
feel the same way back. And I feel like it's
possible that the two of you have a lot of
that that feeling of like I'm going to wear this
color that I know he loves, or I'm going to
make sure that I've wiped.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Down the island and Albert to sea. I'm trying like
she likes. So you know, it's a little bit like
choor play. I would imagine it's also.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Like play sounds hot, that's like the hottest thing you've
said the entire time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Chore play that gets you, that gets me, It.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Wouldn't it wouldn't be too play. If you've seen how
I load the dushwasher, you got to work on that one.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I loveashure because my way works, so when my husband
doesn't do it.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
That is not seductive.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
The idea that you are constantly seeking ways to attract
your partner, not in like a really pressure filled way.
That stealth seduction part of it is like just making
sure that you are respectful in your tone, that you're
avoiding scoffing or rolling your eyes, or that you're being
mindful of their mood and maybe do you need a hug.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
All of that can be very attractive.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
You also work with people on a fair recovery, and
obviously a lot of people that have followed my journey
know what you know I went through, And so many
people still ask me, like, you know, do you think
it can work? And you know, I have my own
personal beliefs on it, and I do believe that it
can if it's a one time thing and the repeated
(17:34):
the repetitiveness of it, or like the act continuing over
and over is what I think kills it. But for you,
what is your biggest tip with a fair recovery for
people that are wanting to seek help or wanting to
know can it work?
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah? I think we first connected back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It was a really tough time and I remember you
sharing so many helpful tips and ideas and just being
so vulnerable and the way that you shared about that.
And I think for a lot of people they don't
realize how it feels to be in a relationship where
trust is not just low but gone, but being tied
(18:16):
to that person, being either trauma bonded or love bonded
with somebody that you just don't trust. It's a really
weird foreign space and most people don't know how to
navigate it without professional help.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
So top tip would be to reach out for help.
This is what I do.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Unfortunately, it's a part of my practice daily working with
people because there is no one way. You're not going
to read a book and know exactly how to work
through an affair. You're not going to speak to a
friend who's been through it and be able to work
through it. It's something that you're both going to have
to give a lot of yourselves, a lot of energy.
(18:55):
And look, it's okay if you don't want to. Some
people don't want to spend the next three months, three years,
thirty years working through the aftermath of an affair, and
that's okay too. I know that it can be very
difficult to do that, and for both parties, not just
the betrayer but the betrayed partner.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
And it's not a straight road.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Just because one party says, hey, I'm going to give
you a second chance, how that looks may not work
for the person who did the wrong, and they may
decide six months a year down the road, especially come
the anniversary time of disclosure. They may decide like, hey,
(19:37):
I can't live like this anymore. I've decided I don't
want to be in a relationship where trust is just
not possible, and every that's obviously everyone's right. Just because
you give somebody a second chance doesn't mean that they
want it. So checking in about that can also be
important too, just so that it doesn't feel like one
person's overfunctioning.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
What is your number one kind of tip for that though,
to be going through? Is it like, what do you
say that you think helps the most?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Yeah, I say this all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
When you've cheated on your partner, you need to imagine
that you grab them and threw them into a pile
of crap. You threw them in there and it's deep
and they're struggling to get out of it, just because
you have stopped cheating. If that's your reality, you have
(20:31):
stopped cheating, and you're outside of the pile of crap
and you're over here and.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
You're telling them, hey, come here, get out of there.
You can breathe over here. It's so much better over here.
Just because you feel that way doesn't mean it's possible
for them to do this.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
You have to get into the pile of crap, hold
their hand, lift them up, push them out, hold walk
with them.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Assuring them all the way.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And a lot of people are not up for that task,
but that's exactly what needs to happen in order to
even remotely have a chance to work through it. So
if you know yourself and you know that you're not
going to be able to hold your partner's hand through
whatever they're going to go through, then don't ask for
a second chance.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Just move on.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Let them move on, because otherwise it's going to be
a world of hurt over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Amen to that.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, agreed, Agreed again. Love having you on. You are fantastic.
Where can our listeners? Do you do telehealth at all
or are you just based in Texas?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
No, Actually it's an interesting time.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I'm going to start seeing clients in New York in person,
California in person, in La So Manhattan, LA, and of
courseon here in Houston in person. I usually see couples
in person for that first session and then we move
into virtual just it's easier that way. But yes, I'm
seeing clients every day in one way, shape or form.
All they have to do is go over to doctor
(21:55):
Viviana dot com. You can spell out doctor or LA
Relationship Ship Therapy dot com, n YC Relationship Therapy dot
com or Houston Relationship Therapy dot com.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
But yeah, you can find me. Just google me, doctor
Vivian Coles and Ashawa.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Awesome. Thank you so much much. You appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Guys, I appreciate you. Take care and well, thank you
Host
Jana Kramer
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