Ep. 5 Let's Talk About Sex Part 2

Jana is back to go a bit deeper into the topic of sex and intimacy. After addressing the fallout from last week’s episode, she gives an update on what has changed in her relationship with Mike after their breakthrough. Then, Cherie Healey returns to answer all of your sex questions, and there are no limits.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wine Down with Jane Kramer, and I heard radio podcast
Hey girl, Hey, how's it going good? How about you? Oh,
it's good. I've been thinking about you all weet you
have I have because I'm just dying to know, because
I really listened to the podcast so many times because
I am still astonished and how open and honest, not

(00:28):
only you but Mike. For a man to be that
honest in the moment, so I want to know, I
was huge. It was huge. Did you guys do anything
that she suggested? Well, I'll just say this, Like when
we left, I was just like, hey, are you okay?
And he's just like, but that was that really took

(00:48):
a lot out of me. He's like that, you know,
he's like for a man to admit that, you know,
I have intimacy issues and sometimes I don't perform well
and you know I have these issues. And it was hard.
It was hard. I mean that day was like I
was like, well, I was like, I'm sorry, is there
anything that I might have said that offended you. He's
like no, He's like, it's just it's it's hard. I'm

(01:10):
supposed to be like a man and I don't have
these issues, and so I think it was really tough
for him. He's like and I'm I'm curious how it's
gonna sound. And so he was so worried the entire
week about it airing on Monday. And then he listened
to it and I was like, so what do you think.

(01:33):
He's like, I loved it, and I was like, hey, hey,
that's so awesome, but he was still a little worried.
And then I started to screenshot him the direct messages
I got from Instagram where people were like, thank you
so much, Mike, because you know, and thank you both
of us for being you know, vulnerable and honest about
our issues. He's like some of the girls were like,

(01:53):
I had my husband listen because you know, there's a
lot of things that you said that I could relate to.
But then also, you know, I had my husband, you know,
I let my husband listen to get an inside of
how we're feeling or sometimes or it's like I related
with Mike, So I let this person listen because it
made me feel like I wasn't alone. And mikel was like, wow,

(02:13):
we really like did help a lot of people. And
I was like, yes, like this is why, like I
want to like talk about this is because it does
help so many people and to be open and to
be honest is so hard. But at the same time,
when you can not feel alone, when we can all
feel like we're not alone in this and people struggle
with these issues and to be able to talk about

(02:33):
it is huge. And I'm so proud of him that
he is not hiding in a shame like he has
in the past, and where he's able to just talk
open about it and we can kind of share how
we're dealing with things and how and again to have
people relate is so huge because that means that we're
not alone in it either, which is so awesome. And

(02:56):
I'm just like, I'm so thankful to all the wind
Down listeners that have instagram me and emailed me just
because it's it's nice to know that we're a team
and we're not alone and you're not alone and he's
been so oh, I know, it's so great, which is
so awesome because you know, being honest is it's where

(03:18):
the growth, where the growth happens in that moment of acceptance.
It's and it's really nice too to see, like I
had um one of my best girlfriends reached out to me, Leslie,
she texted me and she actually texted Mike too. She goes,
y'all's growth is because I mean she was she was
there when I discovered when she was she's you know,

(03:39):
she's been through the ringer with both of us, and
you know she's friends with both of us. And she's like,
how you guys talk now is so different from how
you guys talked two years ago, and how you guys
are now being able to help people and to um
process this in such like a grown up, mature sure way.

(04:00):
She's like, it's so nice to hear. And I was like, man,
that's like affirmation for me that I'm doing my work too,
as we're both like working on it. So it's great.
And again, like just how many people have questions about sex,
which is why we essentially did a part two because
it's an issue and people don't talk about sex. It's
such a taboo thing where people don't. They feel they're

(04:24):
afraid there. You know, everybody wants to just put out
that energy that they're having the best sex, everything's great.
No one wants to talk and come and find out
a lot of people are like, I don't even want
to have sex. With my husband. I'm tired or this
or that. It's like how do we keep the romance alive?
So I'm excited to answer these um emails today, and

(04:44):
I'm excited that we have Shari back because she when
we got in the car, we're like, damn sure, he's awesome,
Like she really truly helped us. Did you guys use
any of the tools that she armed you with? Honestly?
I mean she said communications key, and that has just
from you know, this past week working on things with him.
It's our communication just in general the past two years

(05:07):
has gotten so much better, but really the last two
months it's been great. But yeah, I mean I think
it's just with Shari. I mean, we know communications so
key with us, but just highlighting those things and kind
of remembering that's like, okay, that's what we have to do.
And um yeah, I mean he definitely got my cues,
you know, and he was like it got the cue.

(05:28):
But the lotion thing didn't work. Oh it didn't, know,
because he started putting lotions on my leg like a
barbarian and I was just stopped, like he's like flabbering
on my legs and I was like, this is not sexy,
nor is it like even getting on my legs. So
just stop and then the beds all stick, you know.
I was like, good night, I'm going to bed. You
can stop now, but no, I mean, it's just it's
nice to just have like the affirmation and remembering like

(05:51):
tools and stuff. But yeah, we're so good. Yeah, you
guys are very nice. You guys are really putting the
work in. We are, and it's nice to only see
the outcome. But I'm you know, I did say this
to my therapist, so I go, we're so good that
I'm so scared when the other sho's gonna drop because
it's like we're so good and we're so working on it.
It's like when am I going to find something or

(06:13):
what like? And it's it's that scares me. But I'm
just going to try and stay positive and we're on
a good path and not let the past ruin the present.
Stay present. We do that, I know. But now we're good.
I'm happy. We celebrate our anniversary, which was so much fun.
That's so awesome. Was it was it different? This this

(06:36):
year always so much different. Was again, we're just we're
more comfortable with each other, we're not putting expectations on
each other, which is so key for us, and we're
just again, we're just so like we had great memorials
and we're just like hanging out with like people, and
it's like I felt secure and usually like when we're
around other people, I feel very insecure, and I'm always
just like who's he talking to? And like now we're

(06:57):
just like we're comfortable with each other. And even like
there was a few things where he was kind of
on edge this week and before I would send him
like a scathing text message being like why are you
acting this way? And I'm just like, you know what,
like it'll come background, you know. He came back around
and he's like, hey, I've been on edge. I'm sorry.
I'm like, hey, thanks for acknowledging that we're good. Cool.

(07:18):
You know, it's like this not just making these big things.
Kind of let him work through it, be in his head.
I'm not managing comes back around managing my emotions, which
is great. So yeah, right now, I know it's weird.
I know. I'm like, yeah, I'm like it's okay. I

(07:41):
think so yeah, I think it okay. So I know
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(08:02):
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(08:24):
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(08:44):
before you do anything else, Click on the radio microphone
at the top of the homepage and type in Janna.
That's stamps dot com. Enter Janna. Ladies and gentlemen, drum
roll please, she is back from Shari Heally dot com.
It's our friend and life saver, literally Shari Healy sureI

(09:05):
hey girl, Hey, um, okay, So I'm so good and
I'm so glad that you're back on because I got
so many emails on my Instagram and also at the
I heart media dot com email um about how great
you were and the things that you said to help
you know you were you were speaking to Mike and I,

(09:27):
but you really truly helped so many other people to everyone.
Was like I was just nodding my head and saying yes, Sary,
like yes, this is how, this is how I feel.
And like, so I just I just want to say
thank you and I'm so glad you're back because you know,
there's so many emails that I just kind of want
to you know, of course we you know, Jen and
I have our input, but I think coming from someone
that actually this is what you do, I want to

(09:49):
make sure that we answer this properly. So, um, thank
you for being on the phone with us and for
helping people again, because this is a man. This is
why we're doing a part two segments on sex. Right.
We just got flooded with emails and people that need help.
So I'm so grateful. Thank you for letting me help

(10:09):
because it's what I'm here to do with huge All right,
let's take it away. All right. Here's an email from
I believe it's pronounced Adacia, pretty name. She says, I'm
twenty eight. My husband is too. We have two daughters,
one and three, and I called my husband sending flirty
messages to multiple women, some included dirty pictures. Flash forward
to today, We are working on things. Our sex life

(10:32):
is the best that's been in a long time. But
here is where I need help. I feel like every
time he gets mad at me or we argue, I
want to throw it in his face. Nothing I ever
do is as bad as what he did. How do
I hold my tongue? Also, sometimes he gets suspicious of
me when I go out with my friends. Am I
being crazy? Am I justified? Oh boy? Okay, do you

(10:55):
want me to start with this one? Guys? Yeah, you
start because I'd be like, yeah, screw him. I'm kidding,
kiddinged question, Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's so here's the thing.
I'm a big fan of feeling good. I'm pretty sure
we're all you're on the planet to be happy and
to feel loved. So that's the skill, right, And I

(11:19):
think if she could, if all of us could adopt
a positive belief, an empowering belief, that is, there's a
good reason for everything everyone does. Just to try that
on for a minute, when you say there's a good
reason for everything, there was a good reason for what
he did. And I'd get curious about why he sent

(11:41):
those pictures the flitty text. What was he trying to get?
And it always comes down to I mean most always,
but somebody's trying to get their needs, Matt, And we
talked about this with you, Jenna and Mike last time.
But I would be wondering, you know, what he was needing.
And there's a need in the human needs psychology we've

(12:03):
talked about before for significance and uncertainty excitement, right, And
I'm guessing that maybe those two were in play, that
he needed to feel like somebody wanted him. That's a
big thing for guys. They need to be desired. We
all have that, but in the masculine that's a big thing.
And so he was getting a quick hit, a low

(12:24):
level hit, right, and a dangerous hit. But maybe he's
also meeting some spife in his life and some excitement,
and so it sounds like they're working on things and
it's great to hear that their sex life is better
than ever. I'm sure that's helpful. What I've learned about
infidelity too, is it's not always just about sex. Like
there are people who can have an incredible sex life

(12:46):
and someone's still cheating. So that's where you got to
go underneath it a bit. And so if she can
take on there's a good reason for it, and then
work with him, get really curious around what was it
that he was meeting that maybe they can work on
him per siding himself and her providing for him, come
up with new ways to fill his tank like that

(13:07):
that's important. And then the second piece is the need
to want to throw it back in his face is
only going to really be destructive. You've experienced that a bit,
Jan it's like hard to let go. And in the beginning,
I mean, I think it's okay, but towards the you
know now, especially we're two years past it, it's like,
all right, that's not doing any of us any good.

(13:28):
There's it's not good for me to shame him this
these many years back. You know. It's it's if I've
expressed my feelings, like hey, you know, I'm feeling triggered
because this hurts me. So, I mean, there's definitely the
ways of doing it better, and throwing in your face
does not help either either party. Yeah, i mean, I'm
interested in being successful, you know, I'm trying to even

(13:49):
so if do you know you're going to throw something
at him that he's only going to get defensive at.
And Mike talked about that like, oh my god, that
the in the masculine when even we're as women in
the masculine, with somebody tell unto us, the instant response
is the reaction is to challenge back and win. So
that's just not gonna work. So so what's helpful in

(14:09):
in the rebuild is to choose a value, something that's
going to be like your anchor, your your go to
when things get tough. So when I was getting divorced,
and I do this with a lot of couples, I
chose peace. You can choose anything what's the most important
to you. But I just wanted to have peace. I
didn't want to have a war. And in the rebuild

(14:30):
that's pretty important. So she was to choose peace. For instance,
when she's tempted to want to throw it back, she
remembers and maybe there's you know, a braceletter or something
that she wears that or you know, peace sign or
something which you got around the house. That's always like, wait,
piece first, what would peace do? Or if it's love,

(14:52):
like how could I do this lovingly? Because in that
you're gonna always get to some connection, some resolutions, some success. Right.
So I think it's just been making that choice that
would help a lot. I will say the third part
of her question though, saying sometimes he gets suspicious. I

(15:12):
feel like whenever Mike would get suspicious of me is
when he was actually the one doing something wrong. I
do believe that. I really it's always because he would
say some to me. He's like, I'm like, what what
are you doing right now? And it's like every time
I caught him in something because that was so I
just my fears because he's doing these things her her husband,

(15:34):
it's like, oh, i'd be I would be suspicious of
him being suspicious, absolutely, but I mean, who knows, maybe not,
but that's just from my past, that is what I've seen. Yeah,
I think what you're focusing on already tends to become pervasive.
They say what you focused on expands, right, So if

(15:54):
he's already focusing on his own suspicious behavior, it's going
to kind of everywhere. So I agree with at. I
would also vote in the same way, go underneath it.
What what's really going on for someone when they're suspicious.
Usually it's a lack of trust, the lack of connection,
So you'd want to focus in on, hey are you

(16:16):
are you feeling super far away from me? What? What's
what's the good reason underneath the suspicion, Because when you're
not suspicious, usually you feel safe, right, Yeah, If you're
safe with someone, you trust them, you know, you're connected.
There's no way you would think this person is up
to something. So I'd focus on restoring that instead of

(16:39):
you know, going into the fight about well you did
and this you're just projecting and you know all of that.
How can we restore safety and stop sending messages? All right? Mark?
All right? This is from a show. I'm in a
relationship where I'm not happy anymore. My fiancee and I
aren't really intimate anymore, no kissing, no holding hands. I

(16:59):
have an ex my feelings with my fiance because I'm
scared and I hate the thought of taking our daughter
away from her dad and her home. She's too I
haven't been happy in a really long time. I just
know what to do. What's your take on staying in
a relationship for the kids? Nope, okay, time out, time out.
I have to debate that. I'm not saying. I know

(17:20):
you guys are both saying no. However, I stayed in
the beginning for Jolie so that I can say to
my daughter, I tried everything to keep this family together.
Now I'm not sacrificing my happiness, like if I was
still miserable and happy. If I was still miserable, I

(17:40):
would not still be in a relationship with my husband.
But we've continued to grow. But if it was just
for my daughter, well, I mean, if I didn't do that,
we would have been divorced and I never would have tried.
And I didn't, I wouldn't have been able to see
the silver Lining's what I'm saying, No, I understand that,
and that is a specialized situation because there were actually

(18:02):
things that were happening. But when she's saying like should,
I yes, they need to work on it. And I
don't think you should stay in a relationship for the
kids for the long haul. I don't think that's a
good thing, Like again, if we were still bad, but
if you know, if they can work on it for
the kids for themselves, like to try to keep the
family together, I think that'd be what has worked for me.

(18:26):
But again, if it doesn't work out and you're still
not happy, and you're still not because then a day
you want a happy household for your child and it's okay,
it's it's okay if it's too happy households. You don't
want one unhappy household because they learn. You don't want
them to grow up thinking that's what a relationship is, right,
But I think you at least should give it a

(18:46):
shot for their child because for me, that was my
biggest thing if because if I didn't try to try
to keep my family together, I would feel like I
let down Jolie and I let down our family. He
he let down our family first and foremost, but then
I could have been the one to bury it. Well.
I think it depends on the situation because you because

(19:06):
because there there were some issues and like one outside,
she's saying she's not happy, that she's not happy, but
they're not even married yet and she's saying she's not
happy and she hasn't expressed she needs to express her feelings.
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, she should not stay. But if she,
if they can work, if like this guy, maybe he
doesn't know, like maybe it's like maybe again that's not

(19:27):
his love language is to kiss and hold hands and
do these things. I don't know, like or maybe he's stressed.
It's like if if maybe he knows what's going on,
that then they might be able to work on it.
And if then still it's not working, and then definitely
don't stay. That's my take, y'all go yeah, I completely agree.
I think I would coach anyone to say that you

(19:49):
want to try everything you possibly can so that when
you walk away, you do so without regret. You don't
look back and say, oh man, I could have tried,
You'll never wonder. So I'm fully behind you on that,
and I think there's something that could be looked at.
You know, she's saying she's not kissing anymore, not happy.
That That says to me a woman is shut down.

(20:12):
She's closed. And I think given the right skills, you know,
given you're so right sharing this information with him, there's
if there are as a willingness to open her back up,
then I think everything could change. Happy relationship. I don't

(20:33):
think if there is, like please, I mean, Chip and Joanne,
well they kept him really really really good communications. Because
I'm just going to go from my own experience. I
did try, went to therapy, communicated, and then I knew
I still there was no growth happening, and I had

(20:53):
to make the decision and that was it, and that
that's great. And it's like you didn't because yeah, peop
shouldn't because I mean, gosh, I think my parents should
have gotten divorced way sooner than than they should have.
And I, you know, grew up in a sort of
unhappy family where it's like I wish they would have
gotten divorced sooner for us. So definitely don't stay just

(21:16):
for the kids if you're that unhappy, But I do
promote to try to work on it. Yeah, kids like
you guys said, we don't want the kids to learn
that that because what they do is they take it
on and then they think it's their job to make
mom happy. Well, and that's where mom my child issues
come from. I'm like, oh, well, my mom's stayed for that,

(21:36):
so I guess I'm staying for this, you know. And
it's like the nuts. It's like, no, that's not what
I want to ingrain in my child. It becomes cyclical. Yes,
Chris Marie says, my husband and I've been married for
six years now. We have sex about a couple of
times a year. It's not that I don't want to
have intimacy, It's just that I'm so self conscious that
I feel too disgusted at getting undressed. I'm plus size,

(21:57):
so all I can think about when we do try
is my body, and it just turns me off. It's
lights out during or not at all. Any advice, I
will say, I'm a lights off anyways, just because I
feel better about myself. Lights off. But um, that's a
tough one because you want to feel confident. So I

(22:19):
would say, try to do something to make yourself feel confident,
whether that's go to a Poldies class, or just it's
something to like make yourself feel prettier. I don't know,
It's really hard because everyone has insecurities. Even when you've
been married for years, you end up you know, you
can be super thin and not plus size and still

(22:41):
have insecurities. Um, but I mean my best advice is
to start to get active, walking doing stuff, just like
Janna said, making yourself feel good. I'm pretty things to
where to bed all of that, because I bet her
husband is not thinking what she's thinking. Before we get

(23:04):
to the expert, I wanted to throw my guy's perspective.
He's just going to say pretty much that that he
doesn't see you the way you see you. You focus
on every imperfection and we all do that with our
own bodies, but he doesn't see you that way. And
men are very visual. We kind of like having maybe
not full lights on, but a little bit of lights
and you can see what's going on there because that's
where visual people and they really are excited by that.

(23:25):
And if he wants the lights on, you should take
that as a compliment. He wants to see you. He's
not judging you, he's enjoying you. Absolutely so sweet and
it's true it's it's good to get the mail perspective
because that is what men are thinking. That is absolutely yeah.
And on that mail perspective, I want you to tell
me if you agree that I learned this and it

(23:48):
really helped put my own insecurities to rest too, because
no matter what our size, you're absolutely right. All women
have way too much focus on how we look. It's
hard culture, and we were horrible to ourselves. So what
I learned was that because anyone in the masculine but

(24:09):
we'll just talk about men for a minute. When we're
in that mode, the man is single focused. You know.
That's just a way of like men are wired to
get stuff done, and they do one thing at a
time brilliantly. And so this beautiful teacher of mine was
telling me, you, you have to understand that they're not
looking at your whole body. What they're looking at is

(24:32):
naked lady. They're not looking at all the little things
that we would because we have a very different focused
We have a three and sixty degree, like you know,
diffuse awareness where we see all that stuff all at once.
He's just thinking, like I'm with my woman and I'm
getting lucky right now, and I do agree that the

(24:55):
visual is everything, and so it's a gift to be
able to come up with a way of being together
that sort of really amplifies her and makes her feel
good and safe that's also really fun for him. And
I'd also want her to check in with her husband
to say, is it okay with you that we're only
doing this twice a year because my understanding is, you know,

(25:19):
men need secks like food and water, and I can
only imagine two times a year is probably not enough
for him. Yeah, my advice, baby girl, go to a
laundry store and look in the mirror and be like
I am beautiful, and then seduce your husband and he
will be blown away absolutely with the lights on medium, yeah,

(25:42):
in a way that makes you feel good. Maybe it's
just candle light, you know, with the door opening the closet,
have you. There's also a really great program that I'd
love to recommend or a book that might be helpful,
because there's one woman in New York called Mama Gina
and it's spelled g e n A and she really

(26:04):
helps women own their bodies, all sizes, all shapes, like
like a queen. To have Mama Gina, I think you said, Yeah,
she's got a book called The Guide to the Womanly
Arts to start, and then she's got great programs too,
and I think that she's one that really helps us
kind of get over the body issues. TEXTI Jane says

(26:25):
in regards the marriage sex questions, I have an army
wife with a toddler at home with my husband in
the military. He's gone frequently, so I've learned to shut
down my urges because he's gone so much. But then
I have trouble flipping the switch back on when he's home.
I've kind of conditioned myself to never have sex. He,
on the other hand, wants it constantly when he's home,
and pictures and videos when he's not home. What do

(26:45):
you suggest for part time long distance marriages with kids
in the house. M hmm. You know, I'm worried about
the modes that she's that she's created to cope. And
I get why she has this on mode and an
off mode in order to just deal with his absence.
But the problem with that is not only is it

(27:07):
hard to switch back on, but she's cutting off the
the everyday experience of what it is to be on.
You know, when we're on as women. It's not just
that we have to have physical sects, but to be
moving about life like your your senses are on, like

(27:27):
you're turned on by great food or a cold glass
of water, or you know, the sunshine and the air
on your body. Like there's essential way of being in
life that has a woman stay open to pleasure, and
she's completely shutting that off, so she's getting used to
no pleasure whatsoever. You know, there's a full like realm,

(27:51):
like a rainbow, a continuum of pleasure, right, and some
of it is in sects with your partner, But I
would want her to cultivate be on being sensual, even
turning herself on physically too, so that she doesn't have
cobwebs all over her when he comes home. Right, And

(28:11):
that's part of the pleasure of being a woman is
just feeling fully alive, and she's not getting to experience that.
So that's why it's so hard to turn back on
when he's home. All Right, here's another military wife. Brittany
is her name. I'm sorry, she's in the military. She's
currently deployed in Afghanistan, and she filed for divorce while
she was a month into it. She says, my husband

(28:32):
has been emotionally and physically cheating on me for four
years now with a girl from his past, and it
took coming on this deployment to realize I had to
leave him. We reconciled last February and we worked hard.
It felt amazing. I thought we were good. Fast forward
five months and I called him texting the same x
and he also turned to his heavy drinking again. I
want to believe I'm doing the right thing. But how
do you know to keep fighting for him and not

(28:52):
quit in your situation, Joanna? Was it just for your daughter?
And if I chose to leave, do you think I
should talk to him or write him a letter? Well,
I mean I kind of already spoke on Well, first
of all, thank you for your service, thank you for
fighting for our country. Um. Yeah, like I touched on before,
I mean for me personally. I didn't want to have

(29:14):
any regrets at all about my decision and I didn't
want to go. God, I should have tried harder. So
I personally think you should talk to him, um, and
not write him a letter and see if he's willing
to work on it with you. But it sounds like
you've already made your decision with filing for a divorce. Now,

(29:35):
just because you file doesn't mean that it's over. You
could still reverse that if it hasn't been, you know, finalized.
So if you I think you asking though if you
should is to me something, then you should because if
you're final, then you wouldn't even ask. In the opinion,
you know, my concern is that he was cheating emotionally

(29:59):
and physically for four years with the same person, and
then you guys are working on your marriage, and then
fast forward five months and he's back to talking with her.
I don't know, I would be worried. He's in love
with her. Yeah, And if we go back to that,
there's a good reason for everything that someone does. That

(30:22):
what it sounds like to me is there's in the cheating,
there's also the drinking. And these are hand in hand
for sure, for sure, and addictions that we can treat
them like, you know, it's a disease that we can
say this person is a jerk, or we could say, wow,

(30:44):
there's a lot of pain in the sky. I can
only imagine her being away, or I don't know what's
going on that it had to be this one person
for all this time, and that you're absolutely right, he
could be in love with her and unafraid to know
he's just afraid to be on the up and up
and be with this woman. But I look at the

(31:06):
pain and see if if there's an opening there to say,
what's hurting you so much that you're self destructing like this,
and that you're sabotaging our relationship and and can that
be helped? Can he say I want to work on
this for me, because that would say to me, there's

(31:26):
some likelihood for success. Right. There's a great teaching that
I learned in in a lot of my spiritual study
and philosophy, And there's is an ancient teaching in the
yoga tradition that says, if you're going to endeavor to
do anything, take on a challenge like like this in anyway,
your likelihood for success has to be really high, otherwise

(31:50):
it could be your undoing. And so that would be
my concern. Is she's chasing after trying to help him,
trying to rebuild and all this. If he's not doing
it for himself, I don't think the likelihood for success
is there. Agree agree? I could not agree more. Yeah,
Jessica says, my husband and I have been married for

(32:11):
three years. He's the most calm, collective, level headed man
I have ever met. I grew up in a very crazy,
dramatic household, and he saved me. We got married when
I was twenty three, and I'm not twenty five with
two wonderful little boys. But I feel like my husband
and I are roommates and best friends, not husband and wife.
We never have sex. He hardly ever touches me. Let
alone tell me he loves me without it feeling routine
versus meaningful. He's so so wonderful. Don't get me wrong,

(32:34):
but after kids, we have lost the romance. Any advice
or suggestions, I mean, dude, I get it. And that's
something that like when I talked with Michael makes some names.
I just it just feels so like, okay, like, yeah,
we haven't had sex, and whuse now we're gonna have
sex and the romance has gotten out of the relationship.
And I think, you know, for a wife that his
kids and it's just you're you're tired or jobs, and

(32:55):
it's just at the end of the day, you're just
like all right, hey, buddy, high five, you're a roommate
to me almost. Yeah, it's Groundhog's Day almost. To be
honest with you, I'm a single mom right now, and
it's like one of leading up to the last weeks
of school. I am so exhausted this week from Spirit Day,
crazy hair Day, animal Day, pajama Day, Oh my god,

(33:19):
what's tomorrow? Do we have a costume? I'm so tired.
I can hardly think today that if there was a
man in the house, I would just be like, you
need to go away for four day. It's like I
can't even what you want dinner go to McDonald's, Like
I mean, I wouldn't be able to. I don't have
the capacity. I just don't. So it has to be

(33:39):
so hard. Yeah, I'm how do you What would your
advice be to keep the romance and to not feel
like you guys are just roommates. Yeah, this is a
biggie because I when I decided that I was getting divorced,
I was like so devastated because I thought, I'm going
to be the girl who keeps the romance alive forever.
You know, I think we should we should be able to.

(34:01):
And there's some social hypnosis that tells us, oh the
romance always does like get with the program, and I
don't believe that. So there's a lot of a lot
of thinking on this. There's there's some thinking that if
you were focused on what you were focused on in
the beginning of the relationship, there would never be an end.
And the focus definitely changes when we have kids, right,

(34:22):
almost like when you said, remember I promised to never
know you. Yeah, it's to always be curious, be curious
and want to discover and also want to be flirty,
which is hard when you are just like I just
I have to go I have to drop this person
this house and then go here and then like hi, okay,
but I love you by like you're you're more excited

(34:42):
to like how do the kids? And you are at
your husband right because you're focus has shifted to getting
all this best done and the kids. And I think
our culture also tells us that kids come first, that
the kids are always the priority, but I completely disagree
with that. I think that the parents that couple comes
first because you guys are like the generator for the

(35:03):
whole household, and in an ideal situation or actually I
mean what I would call a level three relationships, they're
at a level two right now, and I'll break that down,
but at a level three relationship, the stacks and the
intimacy and the love and the kissing and all the
stuff that is the romance. It puts energy in us.
It doesn't take away. We're so tired. We think of

(35:26):
it as a chore because we've got to get out
of that mom mode and move back into like dating,
you know, woman sexy mode, and it's hard. But once
you're over there, if we all remember when we first
fell in love, when we were dating in the beginning,
like you almost didn't even need to sleep or eat
because you had just so much energy, right because of

(35:46):
the love is putting energy in the tank for you,
and we have to remember that that it's a joy
to receive that pleasure, and and that his attention on
you is actually like food and water, and that it
could actually give you energy to go about all those
two duos in a much easier way. But how do

(36:06):
you like, what's the one thing that could just because
to me again, it's like, what's one thing to do?
Should just jump start this? Okay, Well, it's a good
word that you just used. There is a jump start
lift that I tell people to make like, tell me,
as your partner, what is the zero to sixty move that, like,
I can do this, say this and it will take

(36:29):
you out over the top. It will help you get
out of that off mode instantly. Everybody has jump starts, right,
so you have to think about what could he say,
what could he do? What is it that you need
in order to shift gears. But I guess i'd say
even before that, the idea of putting the couple first

(36:51):
and saying I want to have a level three relationship,
which means I want that romance, I want that love,
I want the epic love affair. That has to be
a commitment from both people that that's where your focus
is going to be, because otherwise it's too easy to
be all about the day to day and the kids.

(37:11):
So I'll quick tell you what the what the relationship
levels are, and then you've had to decide where you
want to be and then design that. So a level
one relationship is super selfish, It's like, I'm all about me,
you take care of yourself. A level two relationship is
the roommate relationship. It's the word business partners. Well, I'll

(37:34):
do this, do you do that? Divide and conquer. We
barter for things and it's not at all fulfilling. I
think that's why we have this epidemic of divorce, because
why be in that when you kind of you fall
out of love in that. And I feel like Phase two, Yeah,
that's an old school relationship that was all about surviving

(37:54):
back in the day. That's not what we want from
our relationships anymore. As their Perel talks about this the
lot in her book called The State of Affairs, she
talks a lot about why all the cheating right now?
And it's the level two relationships is over. We're asking
way more of our relationships now than we ever were before.
So Level three is I make it my job to

(38:18):
give to you, to meet all your needs. I am
here to just love the hell out of you. And
that person then says I'm gonna do that for you too,
and you have this epic um give best like everybody's
trying to outgive each other out. Yes, which is true.

(38:38):
But if you've got that container, then he is giving
to you in a way like trying to love on
you right, wanting to give to you in a way
that you get to receive, so you have energy and
love to give back. And it doesn't have to mean
that we're staying up all night and having sex. It's
what are the simple gifts, like I appreciate you. I

(38:58):
don't know how you do what you do all day.
I had that as one of the things on my
LIPT that was a jump start with my husband. But
he would just come up and be like, I don't
know how you do it all bad And I'm like, yeah,
tell me more. You know, really easy give, Like I'm
just going to come and drop a glass of water
by you when you know you're doing the dishes, we're

(39:19):
going to pick the kids up, or you know, it's
just such a small give. So Jessica gives a small
give and see if he gives back. Yeah, it only
takes one person to say, look for the next ninety
days I'm going to give like crazy to this guy
and see what happened. Because it's a natural instinct when
you love someone to want to like show gratitude and

(39:41):
give back. And maybe we can start a really good
thing exactly and maybe you know, if if, if your
husband is the more he wants more affection and you're
more closed off as a woman, maybe one day a week,
go and hold his hand because you know how much
that would mean to him. Yeah, start small, then build
up exactly exactly. And if you don't know, because this

(40:04):
is all new and it's hard to decipher, I, you know,
do this with my man all the time. I just
walk up to him at random during the day and
I give him big kiss and say, is there anything
you need? Are you doing anything I can do? It
goes so far. Usually he's like no, but he's totally
melted because I asked, Right, that's really sweet, it is.
Let's do one more here. This is Hayley. She says.

(40:25):
I'm nineteen of My boyfriend and I have been together
for over a year and a half. We've made the
decision before we were even dating to wait until marriage
to have sex. It's a person the conviction that both
of us haven't have chosen to follow. We're intimate in
other ways that don't involve sex. We're also very affectionate. Regardless.
We hit a rough patch the last couple of months
and the affection that he used to show me eased off.
I know it has to do with the anger and
resentment we were feeling during our rough patch. It has

(40:47):
been resolved. What's your advice for keeping a relationship romantic affectionate,
fresh and fun when sex is not an option. M
I mean I feel like, but I feel like you
can also be from a We just talked about doing gifts,
little gifts here and there and surprises. You know. My

(41:07):
husband said to me one time, he's like when you
came and gave me a hug behind me, like when
I was doing the dishes and just said I love you.
He's like, that went so far from me, Like just
little things that you know would make your spouse or
boyfriend happy. Um. But I mean when sex isn't one
of the tools, so that could be something to showing

(41:28):
like affection affection. Um. I always think that men always
find it so comforting to hear how grateful you are
for them, even though and we don't say it enough.
We never say, oh my god, I'm just so grateful
you are in my life because you know, I have

(41:48):
so much fun with you. List the reasons you're abstaining
from sex, it is. I always say you need to
test drive, though, because sometimes that's just personally for me,
because I mean, if I waited till I was married,
and some of it had sex with some of the
people that I've had sex with before that were terrible.

(42:08):
I'd be like, old boy, how do you do that?
Sex is like a real bad and they're young. I'm
not I'm not promoting for y'all have sex. Yes, you're right,
I know your nineteam, it's you know, yes, if you
want to wait till that's fantastic. But I mean maybe
Jessica Simpson Nickola, she had a bad sex life. Maybe
that's why they broke up. I'll tell you. There's always

(42:32):
a way though. Even when sex isn't so great, it
usually has the reason behind it that the two people
aren't fully open to each other. Could be a skill gap,
it could be ever having searing clearing like old you know,
beliefs about sex so that someone can express more freely.

(42:55):
There's a lot that can be done there. And they're
great teachers out there, so that's one thing. But I
feel like what's great about this couple is that they
get the chance to explore like the full spectrum of
intimacy in a way that most people won't. They'll just
default to the routine of doing sex the same way
their whole life, and then there's all this other intimacy

(43:17):
that keeps the fires blazing. So I think you guys
are exactly right with the affections. Men crave respect. I
think respect and like telling him how much you respect him,
being interested in what he's up to, appreciations for sure, curiosity, support,
How can you just get behind him in all the

(43:39):
things that he's doing and that he values. I think
creating fun. There's all kinds of like sensual and just
super interesting and new like variety that you can bring
to each other. And it's all on this container of
I just want to give to you all the things
that you might need as a human being, and that
just creates, I think, a relationship that no one would

(44:01):
ever leave. Amen, sister, thank you so much. I love you.
I can't thank you for helping people and helping us
and answering questions. And we're going to have you on
here in person when you are close to the LA area. Yes,
you know what, We just got a house in Malibu
and I'm going to be down there a lot me too. Then. Okay, okay,

(44:24):
all right, thanks girl, I appreciate it. Okay, So I
want to tell you, Jennevi, you ever slept on Brooklyn
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(44:47):
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nothing nothing in this world like climbing into a bed
with super crisp clean sheets. I mean I get it
every two weeks. I'm so happy. But like every day,

(45:08):
Oh my gosh, that's exhausting. Well I'll just say this.
I mean you spend a third of your life in
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people to like it's like, dude, get a good mattress,
you know so, but also like your sheets, I mean
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(45:30):
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(45:51):
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(46:12):
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We we definitely needed someone more medical for this next question. UM,

(46:34):
so we have on the phone doctors Suzanne. Hi, Hi,
how are you? I'm great? How are you? We're good.
We're just sitting here answering some emails about sex and UM.
And this one I can't help with. Um, I think it.
I think it's more of a medical question. So I'm

(46:56):
gonna have Mr Mark here read this email, and I'm
gonna let you take it away. Thank you very much.
This is from Lena, and Lena says, I've been in
a relationship for eleven months. We now live together. My
issue is I'm in my sexual peak and he's quite
a bit older than I am and doesn't function. He
refused to get help for it due to multiple reasons,
but in the meantime, I'm suffering. I've considered finding a

(47:17):
partner for that, but I know i'd feel guilty if
I did. I don't want to leave him just because
of that, and there isn't any other reason to leave him.
That's what she says. Wow, Um, that sounds like a
major relationship issue. I mean medically. You know, here's the thing.
If he's having medical issues and he's refusing to address them, Um,

(47:41):
there's you know, other than hog tawing him and putting
him in the trunk of the car and swapping him
to the urologist or a sex therapist. Uh, this is
actually a communication issue, you know what I mean. It's
not there may be a medical issue here, for sure,
But if he's not willing to address the medical issue,
there's a deeper issue in terms of how they're relating

(48:02):
to each other. What I mean, what would be the
medical issue that would be going on for someone that
is suffering from from that. Well, so she's being she's
not really stating it sounds like what she's euphimistically referring
to as erectile this function, and um, that's actually that
is actually a real medical issue because first of all,
there there are treatments for it as unfortunately we are

(48:25):
all aware because we've seen all those uh ridiculous commercials.
But and it's common, right, I mean, it's fairly common
for men and women, I guess right. I will say
that one of the things that I think people don't
necessarily appreciate is that for men, it can be a
harbinger of other medical issues for them, um, specifically heart disease,

(48:49):
cardiovascular disease, because blood vessels and the penis are smaller
and more sensitive. And so you know, somebody, I'm guessing
this is a guy who doesn't want to talk about stuff.
Maybe a guy who also doesn't go to the doctor,
which is kind of just a guy like I don't
like to go to the doctor. Well, I think and
I think for that kind of issue too, to be like, hey,

(49:10):
I you know my or you know I can't like
that's gotta bessing and it's people are ashamed. But you know,
the positions, this is like what this is what positions
are trained to deal with. But maybe if this person
understood also that this might be there might be an
underlying medical issue that needs to be addressed here, and
that this is an opportunity for him to regain health

(49:33):
and and then I mean there's this is this is
a big issue in a relationship, like and not just
because of the sexual components, because you've got to be
able to talk about stuff that's uncomfortable. I mean do yeah,
I mean it definitely sounds like they're communication needs to
get a little bit more on par. But I think also, um,
you know, something to look into too. I think you

(49:55):
know this isn't again a medical question and a medical
question phrase Suzanne, but is you know sometimes some of
the side effects on these depressants and anxiety medicines is
lack of totally Yeah, and I know nothing about this
guy's medical history. I don't she say he's older. I
don't know how old, you know. I don't know what

(50:16):
else is going on here, So what are part of antidepressants,
anti anxiety medical me? Like when I was on Zoloft
for three years, I could not have an orgasm at all. Yeah,
and you know, you understand I'm a gynecologist, so I
don't have all the void part. You know. I don't
know about all that stuff. But for women, for sure

(50:38):
that that's a big thing. Also, loss of libido is
a big thing, and lots of lebido can occur for
men and women on antidepressants and anti anxiety meds. But
of course mood disorders also will diminish lebido for a
lot of people. So it's a complicated issue. But the
thing that's really important for people to understand is that
it's absolutely workable and doable if you're willing to come forward,

(51:02):
kind of get rid of that shame, partner with with
care providers that are going to be carrying and understanding
and knowledgeable. There's no reason this can't be addressed. So
there are so many other things here that I just
don't know enough about this person to write. And at
this point, like I'm speaking kind of more just um,
you know, not about in general, just about like if

(51:22):
anyone else is having these issues, like you know, be
open minded to going to talk to medical professional because
there are there can be actual reasons why something isn't
why why it's not working for for either the woman
or the man, And it could be because maybe say this,
this is actually very important because you know, people don't

(51:42):
come by this um shame for no reason. And the
reality is that a lot of my colleagues are not
very well trained in sexual medicine and it is an
area that is sorely missing in our education. I happened
to be trained in sexual medicine, and not just because
I'm a god to cologists because most of the stuff
I did after my training and my board certification, but

(52:05):
there are organizations devoted to specifically sexual health for men
and women, and so you know, people need to understand
that if they're getting dismissed or feeling ashamed in their
interactions with their doctors or nurses or whatever, there are
other docts out there that do know how to treat this,
and there are a lot of resources online. There's also

(52:26):
great you know, sex therapists are great resources for people.
I know that sounds so like weird and creepy, but
they're amazing and they frequently will have great relationships with
physicians that are well trained in the subject. All doctors
are not creative equal when it comes to sex. That's
not true. And doctor Suzanne, what exactly happens when you
go see a sex therapist, Well, h you'd have to

(52:51):
see a sex therapist obviously in one but generally what
they would do is take the careful history, just like
any of us would, and find out exactly what's going
on because one of the things that they can help
unwind is how much of this appears to be organic, physiologic,
biologic and more going to be treated from the medical side,
and how much of this is you know, alind body

(53:11):
situation because sex, to me, I always tell people sex
is like the ultimate mind body experience where really you
the mind and body are joined. And so if the
mind is overworking, you know, then the body is not
going to work, and so there's you know, no, it
doesn't even have to be like the trauma. But if
there's a story you're telling yourself where there's anxiety or

(53:33):
mood disorder or relationship problems are shame or stress, any
of these things can also enter into the relationship. So
I think the first thing that would happen with that
you'd have to kind of unwind which of those is
going on, and then from there they have their modalities,
whether it's talk therapy, experiential with couples working together to
be more exploratory, playful, um, open minded. You know, there

(53:56):
are toys that can be used, there are supplements that
can be used. Are you know, there's like lots of
there's a lot of stuff out there. But I think
we as a society are both obsessed with sex and
like completely misunderstand it and um are unaware like women
don't you know, I can just speak for women. Women
frequently don't even know what their body parts are, yeah,

(54:19):
or have never explored it. Yeah. I mean I have
friends in their thirties that have never never masturbated, never
don't know what things are or how to even orgasm
by these exactly. And if you can't do that, I
don't know how you're going to work with a partner.
In order to achieve intimacy in that arena. It requires
so much bravery to be intimate. That's likely scarious, hardest

(54:42):
thing in the world, so professional can help create a
safe environment and which to explore that so that it's
not so scary and that it is something that you know,
people can do on their own, with each other whatever.
So that's an awesome resource for people and not well understood.
I think people you know, you put the words excess
on anything, and it's both titilating and also like turns

(55:03):
it turns people off, like I don't need that. You know,
you're right, it's a very taboo topic. It is. People
are afraid to talk about it. So for Lena, look,
I'm just gonna say, don't don't cheat. That's not the
that's not the way to go to get what you want. Um,
but try to talk to your husband. Try to talk
to your your husband, your relationship partner, and um, you

(55:26):
know there are options and hopefully he's willing tell him
what you need and this is what would be helpful
for you because you're at a point, you're at a
breaking point for yourself and say, you know, can you
can we please sit down with someone either a sex
therapist or a therapist or you know, let's go to
and she can get some help for herself. You know,
we are not on this planet to fix other people.
As much as we really want to make them exactly

(55:47):
the way we want them to be, that doesn't usually
work very well, and they may need to find a compromise.
They both have to work together, because she did say
in the email that he's older and she's younger, so
they may just be at different points than their sexuality,
which is totally and there's other things you can do

(56:07):
that don't involve the penis that way, you know what
I mean. But this is gonna they're gonna have to talk.
I agree with Mark. Maybe a second email we wrap her, Okay,
all right, well, Susan, thank you so much. You're you're
very Where are you a gynecologist, by the way, I'm
in LAM in Beverly Hills, which practice. It's called Women's

(56:29):
Care of Beverly Hills. Oh I see j Goldberg. Of
course you do. I knew when you asked that. I'm like,
you're going to be my practice. I do want to
be upnoxics, but I'm like, everybody is our patient. No,
you guys are the best. So if my l A
listeners definitely go to them. Um, yeah, you guys are awesome,
Thank you. All right, you're so welcome. Can you get

(56:49):
doctor Susanne and take it easy? Bye bye? All right,
we have one more doctor on the line and one
more email. But first I want to tell you about
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A M dot com slash Jana. I can handle this
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and the same day funding. Give it up for Mark, Guys. Okay,

(58:16):
so we have one more medical question, and this is
Dr sherry Onthon. Hi. How are you? Hello? I'm good,
how are you? This is Janna and Jen Hi. Hi,
all right, Mark, take it away. Okay, this is from Kristen.
I'm from Texas and I'm twenty five years old. I

(58:37):
currently am going through PCOS, polycystical variant syndrome and infertility.
My sex drive is solo all the time. Is there
any advice you can give about how to raise my
sex drive or keep my partner involved. I feel like
I'm pushing my husband away by not giving him the
time of day. That's a medical Yeah, that's a tough one. Well,

(58:59):
probably spectical arian syndrome. It is very confusing and complicated
and can be very frustrating, especially when you're trying to
get pregnant. There's a lot of pressure to get pregnant,
and it can be challenging because you're not always ovulating regularly.
Can you say what PCOS is? Yeah, So, partistic ovary

(59:21):
is a condition that affects probably with the ten percent
of women, and there are the ovaries are sort of imbalanced.
There's a lopside of estrogen and cisacone. So as a result,
your periods are irregular. Sometimes you get excessive hair growth,
and you can also have infertility. But irregular periods and

(59:43):
not ovulating regularly are going to be very common problems
and and that's why it's hard getting pregnant. So the
couple has a lot of pressure. There's a lot of
pressure to perform um and it's no one that plext
drives as low. She's probably feeling depressed and um. But

(01:00:05):
what I would suggest to her, you know, hopefully she's
being a doctor that's helping to make sure she's ovulating
each month. And sometimes you sort of have to push
it a little bit when it comes to having sex
because you're on a mission. You're on a mission to
get pregnant, and that makes it a little more challenging, right,
It's almost like you you have to just have I

(01:00:28):
mean she's doing she's doing fertility. Well, I don't know
she's doing she's doing. I'm curious if she's she said
she's going through in fertility. Okay, So I mean technically,
and you know, you're not then having sex to make
a baby, so you you almost just need to like
just go through the motion almost because you're absolutely which

(01:00:50):
is what sucks, which sucks, but because you know, you
know you're you're not feeling good, especially with fertility medicines.
That's just you know, on top of everything else, and
then the star us and you're like, well, we're not
even having sex for babies, so why even have sex
right now? But I mean, again, you don't want to
push your husband away, so it's almost like, yeah, it's
until you can get on the other side of it.
It's almost just like going through the motions, which is hard.

(01:01:13):
But and hopefully they're they're they're having good communication. I
think that's so important because this is the kind of
scenario where couples need a little extra TLC and they
need to be communicating you know, the their issues, their
frustration and and and just you know what's happening, and
that it's not your typical way of having a baby. Yeah,

(01:01:35):
and I will say this to um to Kristen, like
when we are going through IVF, you know, I noticed
that I wasn't having sex with Mike a lot, and
they almost then just start to feel like they're the
baby makers and it's like, oh, you just want us
for sex because so you can have a baby. And
it's like then they then they're not as attracted to
really want to have sex to either because they just
feel like they're getting used for sperm. So you know

(01:01:57):
when you're using in fertility and then it's like, oh,
I don't need the man anymore. It's like then that
really makes them feel like they're not Yeah, I wanted to.
So it's a very stressful time that's not discussed enough
with couples going through in facility or any you know,
any problem trying to conceive. So I agree with special

(01:02:19):
attention needs to be given to the husband especially. Well,
thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Yeah, good luck. Thanks. Okay,
I want to give a huge thank you to my
guest today we had Sharie Healy Heally Okay, all right,
I just want to give a huge shout out to
all the guests we had on today. Thank you Shari Heally,
thank you, Dr Sherry, thank you Dr Suzanne A. Sie

(01:02:42):
Soon at the office. Um please please please email us
Jana Kramer and I heeart media dot com. And I'm
really excited for next week because we have Merissa, Jared Winoka,
and Ray Wahlberg. It's going to be a great show,
really talking to some great ladies. We'll be back next
week to wind down.