October 27, 2025 • 46 mins
As a parent, you’ll have to deal with bullying at one point or another, but how do you know when its bullying… or just kids being kids?
Kat opens up about her middle school aged daughter and some friend drama after being ditched on Halloween in the past. How do you move past something like that?
Plus, we try to find a balance between work, kids and marriage… can it be done??
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer an I'm Heeart radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hi girls, I miss you and I'm away from you,
sweetly coudin.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I just we do that so it's real.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
For some reason, it sounds so fake because I normally
would never do that.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
But we do that. We do real life.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
We do that.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're a great little trifecta. You might do that in
real life, but I never usually would be like.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh, I definitely do that in real life. Hey, what's up?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
You know, it's so funny. I just talked about that
because I was just talking to a friend about a
role and I was like, not I intind myself on tape,
just too bubbly, can't do it. That's wild.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Made me think about it. It's like, we're not bubbly.
I just say that we're not, but we are. But
we're not for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Anyway. I mean sometimes I'm not.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I mean I think I wouldn't say you were typically
bubbly person, right, No, I don't. I wouldn't say that
is like a bad thing, right right?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You know for sure?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
And I think I go in ebbs and flows.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I think you go in ebbs and flows.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, well everybody does.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And some people are bubbly all the time, and then
that just really feels fake. No offense if you're bubbly
all the time. But I can't do that. That's interesting,
Like I have an actual I'm going to go into
this actually no topic.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
You know, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
But Nick has a very very good friend. I should
be careful say this. And his wife love her, sure,
love her, absolutely love her. But I'm like, you can't
be that happy all the time.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I have a question.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah, is that this is just a devil's advocate. I'm not,
I'm not. Just what is it in you?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm sure?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Is like I want to be that happy all the time,
but I feel like even when I'm happy, I'm not
that happy.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
But I think I think because to me.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Nothing that you have something for sure. I probably is
because I always say, well, if someone is you know, uh,
what's the if someone is reacting to an action, what
is something that usually something inside of them?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, for sure, I think my mind is that need
to get deeper. Sure, and it doesn't feel like that
can go deep. Usually if she can, I have not
seen it does not mean that she doesn't does not
mean that she doesn't. I haven't been able to get there,
and I usually can with most people. And so that's
where I'm like, okay, like I think I'm gonna say
(02:36):
it to her one day because she's super sweet, But
would you cannot be this happy all the time?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Is she Southern? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, so am I. But there's something about like some
people that are raised super southern.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Like raised in the same town.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But yeah, but you know, like depending on family, like
they will portray themselves like that, like it's actually unacceptable
in their brain to be anything other than that.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I could see that.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
So that's that's what it kind of sounds like, maybe maybe.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Maybe I just need I need the ups and downs
I think people.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
I mean, I wouldn't be able to be around someone
that is all the time, super happy, all the time,
super down right for sure. That's like I know, we've
been in spaces with people, me included, where it's if
I if I stayed in that place of always being down,
I would probably drag you guys down. And you don't
(03:27):
want to be in that place either. When someone is
just always it's like, okay, get real with me here,
because we got to be you got to have some
sort of struggle, because.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Right, yeah, to be drama, but it's just to have
like a lay like the depth you're talking about, I
think is really it's just about connection.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, And maybe I just haven't gotten to that point
yet with this person. But it is hard for me
to get to that point because I'm like, I don't
buy it.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Maybe she gid so sweet, but and I think I could.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
It's the funny thing, Like, I really think that I
could probably say that to her and she would just
laugh and then still just be happy.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Well, nothing makes me upset, sugar.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I don't know how we got there. It just took
me there.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's funny because I had a little envy this morning. Ironically,
I had to do some pivoting with the children this morning,
and so Caroline, my deep dark, deep dark, indeed and
loving bestie, took the babies for me to the zoo
and I was stuck in traffic that's what we do
here in Nashville, and so I texted her that I
(04:29):
was going to be five minutes later than I wanted
to be, and I left with the big She's doing
me a favor.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
So it's very rude to me for me to be late. Yeah,
I don't like being late.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I'm always late if my husband's involving me here, so
when it's just me and the three kids, I can
usually get us there. Anyways, five minutes late, and I
texted her and said, hey, I'm just like sitting in
NonStop traffic, but we'll be there. And I'm hustling, you know,
And she goes, oh, no worries, And I'm like, oh,
she's probably just being kind because I'm stuck in traffic.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I get there. No, she really has no worries.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Chatted with me like, you know, everyone's meeting at the
zoo in like ten minutes, and she's just just the
most refreshing because I don't operate that way anyway. So
I sent her voice note after and I said, there's
something I deeply appreciate about you, and it inspires me.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah, I don't have nice to have certain Yeah, because
we all hold things differently, we all hold our struggles
differently in the spaces. So she just has three extra children.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, there's no big deal. Have I never heard of
this person?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Caroline Hobby? Oh Caroline, I.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Have Sorry, Caroline, I just wasn't my brain wasn't there.
She's never usually like a first named person. We always
isn't funny?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Sarah Brice? Is that for me too? If you say Sarah,
I'm all right?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Which one she's Sarah Brice Bryce phone?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Oh cute my breast breast? What am I just in breast?
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You're still cremer. I haven't made you a wrestle some
day I don't like to break up with. My best
girlfriend is still Lisa. Uh, Lisa pelophone in my phone?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, that was her real name.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, telophone on the telephone. Oh, she's heard it a
million time. Yeah, and she's she's a no wiki now
you know.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Oh I do have that too for my high school friends.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
It can't change it.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
It just is what it is. But I know it's
back to that other point where it is. So it's hard, right,
How do I say this? Because it's like I have
to Oh no, is it gonna hurt my feeling?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
No?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
No, no, no, no no. I'm always bracing for impact. So
I somehow I'm logged out of my Facebook. I don't
know how. It's been a whole thing. I'm logged out.
So you check it Facebook?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
No, But I did have my community board thing that
I would like to see neighbors. I kind of got
off of it because some of the neighbors were like,
why would you put lights on? I'm like, why would
you care? You know, like agree, you know what I mean?
So I didn't really look at it. But there's certain
things where they talk about parties. And I was at
the bus stop the other day and some of the
moms were talking about, like, oh, are you going to
come on the walk? We're doing like a woman's meet
(06:54):
up walk. And MY first initial reaction was is, Oh,
I'm out, like.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Fair mine would be too, three.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Three and I and I don't and I how do
I say this? Not because I don't And there's so
many new neighbors, you know, that I haven't yet met,
and they all seem so lovely. But there's a piece
of it that it's like I want to get to
know each one on an individual, deep, deeper level, right,
(07:30):
And so it's sweet that I was invited in on
the bus stop chat. When we were chatting about it,
I was like, Oh, no, I'm not on Facebook anymore,
but like, you know, I'm out, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And I did you say it just like that? Well?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Yes, but that had to retract because as soon as
I said it, I'm like, I don't want them to
think that I don't want to chure because that's not
my truth either, like at all. Like some of these
you know ladies, I would I would like to get
to know all of them. Having said that, I to
go on a walk with a bunch of people that
talks just I it just to me. It's like what
(08:07):
you were saying is more of like the deeper level
of connection about things, And I don't know, maybe they
would go there, but also maybe it's okay for people
not to always just to go there too.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
And so I'm like, maybe it would actually be good
for me just to walk with people and just talk
about the random stuff and not be like, so what
are you dealing with? That's heavy and right? You know,
but I do I'm more of like a one on
one with that. I don't know, I just brought that up,
but nice to know that you guys are the same.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, well my problem with that is that gives me
actual social anxiety.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well same, yeah, yeah, it truly does.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Like, hey, I cannot walk into a thing like that
without someone I know, like as a comfort or uncomfort.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
And that is what I was talking to Pam about,
was because I said to her, I said, you know me,
I go, I am socially awkward. And it's not because
I don't want to get to know any of the
other women in the neighborhood. It's not because I think
I'm better than any of them. I'm absolutely not. I
just get socially awkward and then I say things that
make me even sound worse. Yeah, you know, but I
don't mean it from that place. Like me saying I'm
out was my socially awkward because I didn't want to be.
(09:11):
But then I'm like, do they think I'm a bitch? Nah?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well, I think talk is hard, That's what I was
just going to say. And I think that we love
connection so much. I don't mind, like even I've been
noticing even like at school pickup and that's only two
days a week, but I'm like in and out, like
I grab them like hot potatoes and run squealing my tires.
But it's just because the input feels like so much
recently that I don't know that I can engage or
(09:34):
be asked to contribute or participate in anything else. I
also love sometimes just the high level. Yeah, three kids,
you know, just like, yes, I have three, this is
their ages. That's kind of refreshing once in a while.
But I also feel like it I'm going to really
go down for this, but I can't think of a
(09:55):
different way to phrase it feels like a waste of time.
To me. If I'm not gonna have a deep friendship,
I'd rather walk with myself.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Which is interesting because you seem like you're so good
at small talk, like anytime we go places, you talk
to everyone.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And you get a lead for us, truly, like you
take the lead for both me and Cap.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I'm like, I wish I could have come up with
the fifteen questions you just asked that person.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Like, and I mean that it sounds like I mean
it bad, so I'm smiling through it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I truly mean that in a I'm envious of that way,
because I will get into social stuff like that and
I will be like, Okay, what do I ask?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
And then I get so you know, it's just it's
not easy for me. So I think it's great. But yes,
I do hear you on this. Sometimes it feels like
a wasted.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, like you guys, there's only so much capacity. I
think that's what I felt recently, Like I deeply cherish
the friendships I have, and God does give me these
really shiny ones once in a while, and I'm like, oh,
that was fun. You know you forget yeah at our
age that you get to meet brand new people that
you might have forever. That's such a fun thing to
think about. But then other times I'm like, there's no
(11:01):
one here, you know, Like I don't. It's not that
they're not a value or they're not lovelier than I
just don't have the energy or capacity to take on
another person having my number. I straight panicked in the
neighborhood the other day because someone said, oh, I can
give you Crystal's number. Just shoot me your number and
I'll connect you. And I just panicked and shut down,
like stranger danger, Like I don't want you to have
my number because I'm gonna feel obligated.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
To write back.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And I feel so in like overwhelmed. Yeah, yeah, not
my popularity.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Who's got a wine? Was that it?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I have a wine? Okay, I don't really know that
I want to go into it, but but here we go.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
You always love that, like I don't know anyway, so
is the same way.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I'm super anxious. Okay, okay, okay, okay, I don't know you.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I like to calm you, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I hope I don't cry.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Oh, I'd love it if you don't love.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It starts purr.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So Halloween is like really anxious for me, like, well
for my kid, So like th kid at this point,
my middle school kid. So like three years ago Halloween
was when she like had all this huge plan. It
was supposed to be at our house and her group
of friends were supposed to come over. They were supposed
to come over and get ready and all this, but
(12:24):
they ditched her.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
After school.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
No one would answer their phones, no one would you know,
they all ignored her and they all went somewhere else
and got ready.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
But this is last year.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This was like two or three years ago, okay, and
so it was just super traumatic, right, like of course
super traumatic. So you know, I call my friend who's
house that they're at, and it becomes this whole thing. Well,
then nobody wants to go with each other, so Emmy
tries to find new friends to go with. Someone invited
her over. I take her over there, and then she's
like oh wait, no, you can't come over my mom
(12:53):
will My mom said no, so then I have to
take her home and then she's got no one to
trigger treat with, right, So then it was like it
was so traumatic. Well then I completely miss side noted
that as I completely missed trigger treating with my younger
child at all, like completely the whole night, just trying
to figure out where to get her, you know. So anyway,
so Halloween is just it is super traumatic for her,
(13:16):
super traumatic for me. Last year, so we did a
Halloween party a couple of years ago and then things
kind of started to go south with her and her
best friend around that same time of course, and then
last year was like okay, she had like some friends
over or whatever. So I'm just really anxious about it,
and we had another little misunderstanding friendship tift on Sunday,
(13:39):
and so it's just been hell, you know, like I
missed Ramsey softball all day Sunday dealing with this. So
it's like it's like twofold. So I'm anxious about her
and how this Halloween's going to play out, and then
I'm missing everything that my younger daughter's doing essentially here,
you know, It's like I'm so busy dealing with all
of her, so I'm having a hard time figuring out
(14:02):
how to.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Not carry all of that. I think that that's where
I am going wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I think it's like I want to be there so
much for her, and I want to be you know,
like I don't want to leave her in those moments.
I want to be there with her. But I'm like,
am I doing that wrong? Because then I'm leaving my
other child essentially every time?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But also.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Am I carrying too much of it? I think that's
where I feel like, maybe I'm just carrying too much
of her feelings and I need to let her just
have those feelings and not carry it so much.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Can I ask you a question? Yeah, I hate that
you're feeling that. I'm curious because we've you've talked a
lot about your feelings of being left out. Yes, and
that is like your y thing that makes you emotional yep,
and feel triggered. Question because I as as you were
explaining that, can you remind me where that came from?
Like when that started for you?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Again, it started really young because I had two best friends.
We all live right down and they were closer, and
they would you know, started with like physically running away
when like they were young, you know, like you'd go
on the playground and they would literally get together and
run away, you know, and it kind of just escalated.
Now we ended up going to different middle schools and
(15:13):
came back in high school and were able to completely
fix what that was. Okay, I went with some other
just one on one friends that I had because I
think I needed to, and in the middle school years
that are so formative, I think that that was huge
for us. They went and kind of got their friends.
I went of got in mine, But when we came
(15:33):
to high school, I kind of combined with theirs, and
then at that point just kind of understood that they
were closer, but they did such they had grown up,
so they had done a lot better job of it's
those middle school years that it's like they haven't grown
up yet and fully figured out how to And I
don't know if high.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
School gets better. I'm just praying that it does.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Now we are now not really friends with she is
not really friends with any of them anymore. Tried to
this is kind of where things went south this weekend.
She tried to kind of reach out and make some
things better with some people, and we tried and it
kind of backfired, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
At least she tried.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
You know, do you think your anxiety comes from though?
That feeling that you had when you were a kid?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
One hundred?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Coming out in that and then one question what would
you have wanted your mom to do in that moment?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And that's where I think it all. That's where I
think it all comes from. See, that's what's going to
make me cry. Thanks therapist, Jani. I know that I
just don't know how to fix that.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, what would you have wanted your mom to do?
For you?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
To care? You know? I mean it's like she didn't
care at all, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I mean it was like you're a cry baby, you know,
or like I don't know, I don't remember her caring
at all, and so it's like so I almost think
I care too much, and then I get too involved,
and it's like I almost cannot function because she's so upset,
I mean a more upset than she is. And that's
not fair because then I think it gets her even worse,
(16:58):
you know. And I've had some of the moms tell
me that when we're talking about it, like you know,
like if you don't act like it's so bad, maybe
it won't be so bad.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And I'm like I.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
As your or you know, the feeling and that's where
the pain for you is, which is also why you're
trying to fix it. Yeah, but where's the like the
rebuild or the the restructure for you? Right, So it's
like you have to It's like and that's the hard
piece because it's like you want to be there for her,
but also you're healing a you still have a wound
(17:28):
in you that is wanting to be cared for. So
you're doubling down because of that, And that's that makes
total sense. You know why you're doing that, why you're
feeling that. You know, have you asked her what she
needs around it? Because maybe that's that's your way of
helping her through it, right and not just putting your
(17:48):
own just your stuff on it. Because obviously you're going
to be mom and we care deeply as parents and
we see our kids more the way that like obviously
would have wished back then, right, So like have you
asked her like how you can help and just be
like and even maybe she's at the age. I don't know,
can you say, because I get it, Like I felt
that same way when I was going through this with
my friends. Yeah, so I'm curious, like, have you asked
(18:10):
her and then like do that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I mean I've explained that to her, and I've explained
because I mean we'll both be crying, you know, and
she's like, and so she knows. Now, I'm just like
this triggers me, you know, she knows that it absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Triggers something in me when it happens.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I just I don't know how to fully get past
that and not put it on me. I haven't maybe
specifically said what do you need from me? I did
leading up to fall break, you know, I kind of
said something to her and she looked at me and
she said, if I'm not worried about it, then you
need to not be. And I was like, Okay, that's
very grown up of you, and you're right, I need
to you know, And so I stopped worrying about fall
(18:47):
break when she said that. I was like, we're gonna
go and it's gonna be fine, you know whatever. But
then things just kind of keep happening and it's getting better,
you know, it's definitely getting better. I just I know
deep down that that's all the reason. I just don't
know how to not react it is.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
I wonder if there is something thank you for sharing them?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh of course, sorry I cried.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Don't be sorry. That's like a very real thing.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And also because you're just such a good mom, Like
if you didn't care and didn't show, I mean not
to say that whatever, right, Like right, it does. It's
like you just are so invested in the course correction
that that's why it makes you emotional. That's like the
best possible thing a mom could be in it for
the right reasons, is the best thing a mom can be. Yeah,
(19:33):
I'm wondering if there is something you guys can do together.
Not Halloween, but I just mean like through these situations
that maybe starts to heal up those pieces for you,
Like it's therapeutic in itself. And it's not for hers
to not for her to carry for you, right and
not for you to carry for her. But just like
maybe little Kat has a minute alongside her where you
(19:56):
come up with solutions that you're like kind of reparenting yourself. Hmmm,
you know, like maybe there's it's not so much you
looking at each other like what should we do? But
just like okay, like if you're standing next to each
other holding hands, like okay, what would be fun or
what could we do? And like it maybe recreates the
feeling for both of you, like the consistency, you know,
(20:18):
I always say, like consistency and time is all that
create recreates trust. Literally, that's the recipe in my brain.
So if you can just get a couple of those
situations under your belt where it doesn't And I'm saying
this to you because I need to say it to
myself for other situations. But I feel this way sometimes
in our duo ship. I feel like sometimes we're like
(20:38):
scattered making plans or whatever for whatever that is that
stresses me out. But like I feel like I can
default to acting a certain way. So I've been trying
to be like okay, right, how can it's And it's
just like now I'm just making it a game for myself.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
But it's like, okay, what if I try this.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
First, you know, and just to see what feels good
or cozy or what works.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I was trying to do things
differently and then this Sunday thing kind of happened, and
I kind of reacted again, and I'm just like, man,
I just I have to stop putting it on, taking
on her feelings so much, like I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
They might doing that make it might make it more
of a wait for her to write. And that's what
I'm afraid of. Yeah, because anything you like, I don't
want it. Now. I've got my mom's feelings to worry about,
and I can't say anything.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Ye yeah, yeah, no, I will.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I will say that. I mean, she talks to me.
You know, I used to go you know, I had
all of her stuff. We've talked about that, social media,
her phone, all of that. I have since with all
of this, stopped looking at it. I have told her
I can and I have the right. And I went
through it maybe once in the last couple months, just
to check in on things, and everything was good, and
I was like, you know, I'm gonna give you this privacy,
(21:47):
but I'm gonna trust you to come to me and
talk to me. And she really has. I mean, there's
been a lot of things going on with kids, her age,
a lot of things, and she's coming to me and
she's talking to me. So that feels good and I'm
I feel like I've done that part right, but I
do I worry about that weight I put on her.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well, nothing is right or wrong though, Yeah, so I
want you to know that too. Yeah, I do this
to myself. I don't want her to be sure, but
like you.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Want to try, Yeah, and asking her like you, just
asking her what she needs is more than what your
mom ever gave you, right in that moment, you know, yeah,
And you might not have been able to articulate what
you needed then, right, you know for sure, but whatever
she was doing embedded in that she didn't care. Yeah,
And you I know that your daughter knows that you
care about her, and you know all this stuff might
(22:35):
be putting extra weight on right because and you know that,
like you're aware of that, you know, yeah, and you're
talking about it. And so I think that's it's.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So frustrating to be oh, and y'all know this because
we all talk about this all the time. But to
be so aware of something and to know, like this
is why I'm doing X, Y and Z, I know,
how do I stop it?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
That's what's so frustrating in those moments, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
To be so aware but so out of control, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, I will say though for Halloween this year, you know,
it's not necessarily a group of great friends. She's still
figuring out her friendships. But she invited some people that
don't have anybody to go, and so I'm like, Okay,
if anything positive comes out of this situation, at least
she's learning to include people that don't have anybody, So
(23:20):
I will take that for a win.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Anyway, that's my wine about it. Sorry, it from bubbly
to back. No, it's just real.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
This is what this is what ties in the first
part of this conversation.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
This is why we love to be with people.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Oh my gosh, this made me think of this too,
and this is why I was thinking about this again.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
This morning.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I had this sweet lady message me. She had seen
a picture I had reposted of Emmy and some of
her friends when we went to a concert. And there's
like six of them, right.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
They are like.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Newer friends in and out friends. They're not the closest,
but you know they call each other best friends. You know,
everybody does whatever, But this sweet mom messaged me, and
she goes, I have a twenty three year old daughter
who has never been able to find good friends. Your
daughter is so lucky and goes into this whole thing,
and I was like, I want you to know, like,
thank you so much. She is so lucky, but it
(24:11):
hasn't been easy for her either, and.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And so it was just it just reminded me that,
like you can think that it's easy for everybody, but
it's not, you know, and it's just I think it's
just important to remember that because it broke my heart
when she was talking about her daughter not having any friends.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Speaking of daughters, we have bachelor Nations. Jade Roper feels
rage and heartbreak after daughter Emmy is bullied at school.
She opened up. Jade opened up about the harder parts
of parenting after discovering her daughter Emmy is being bullied
at school. Okay, no one prepares you for now for
how heartbreaking it is for mean girls to make your
daughter feel less than She was writing this on her Instagram.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Story, so.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
They addressed it. Almost made it worse now we found
out after we removed her from the certain situations, it's
still happening in a different recreational class, same group of girls.
She confessed. The rage and the heartbreak I'm experiencing is unreal.
Ripper's heartbreaking news about Emmy's mistreatment in school came just
two months after she started the second grade, which she
documented via social media with a series of photos. I
(25:26):
mean that's.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Eight.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Well that was two months after she started the second grade. Yeah,
so that seems early too, And like because I feel
like the bullying chatter for some of that was like
third grade. We had a hard third grade. Love had
a hard third grade year because of mean girls and
air quotes.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I just always wonder, and we've talked about this.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
That's what I was going to bring up. Yeah, something
and I'm not go ahead to Catherine.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Well, I was just going to say, I do feel
like everyone's definition of bullying is very different. And I'm
always curious when people say bullying, like what's.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Happening so obviously, so to me, this seems like a
problem that has continued on so like this is and
it's that is awful and I hate that for Jade.
Now I'm going to take a separate We're going to
go off this for a second. One of And I
spoke to Katherine about this because I was really torn
up about it. I had gotten a call from one
(26:27):
of Jace's friends moms saying that Jace bullied him and
I was like what and like I'm like they're friends
and like Jace is like.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I wish people could have seen my face just now
because I know I'm shocked.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Yeah, so Jace is my I mean, you guys know,
like he's my He's my. I can't say favorite, but
like I know, I can't say that word, but like
he is my soul. Like I'm yes, I love Jolie,
love her so much, but there is a connection with
me and Ja like it is just I can't explain it,
Like he is just my little soul baby, and I
(27:01):
know I overly baby him. I know that. I I mean,
I just I do, and I'm I've worked on that
to not I yeah, absolutely, and I'm trying to you know.
And Alan has helped me to be less of you know,
enabling certain things.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
But I he just to me like does no wrong,
Like I do. Think it's a boy girl thing. I
I would say that I'm tougher on love. Preston can
never be tough on love. He's tough on ledge. Yeah,
and I'm not.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
The middle child thing, the middle child.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I think it's the middle child is a little different,
but it's it's it's a middle child thing too, I think.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
And it's yeah, and but what be knowing that I
have to really try to how I then parent Joel
because I don't want her to feel any favoritism. So
that's where it's I I have to I've had to
really make sure that she doesn't ever feel that.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
So what, So what do you say on behalf of
your client when you get a call like this? I
was my first I'm gonna be honest, Yep, there's no way,
right I did. I was like what, no, no, no,
no no. And I'm of course like, I'm friends with
this mom too, So I was like what, Like, there's
no way, and I asked, I was like, but obviously
(28:11):
I have to listen to what she's saying. So I'm like, Okay,
what did he say? Because this kid is upset like that.
I'm devastated also for this kid. And then I'm like,
oh my gosh, am I just like blinded by my
sweet little boy?
Speaker 4 (28:22):
And is he really just a bully? At school? And
so he was hanging around with a boy in the
neighborhood that was a couple grades older than him and
I had my daughter had come to me and said, hey,
he keeps getting in trouble on the bus and I've
noticed this, and I would even talk to the boy.
I was like, hey, we don't say those words at
this house. If you're going to play with jas like
(28:42):
you're two years older, like just you know, this is that.
So there'd been a few times I've even had to
like talk to this little boy, you know, and I've
had to talk to his mom and this situation. And
so it was him and that boy and they were
commenting on and by the way, this boy also has
a different color skin and of both of the boys,
(29:07):
and so one of the boys was saying to the
other boy, you have different color skin than I do,
and Jace had said, yeah, you do. And so they
were essentially making fun of or talking about the color
of their skin. And so I was like, there's in
(29:28):
my mind again I had trying not to defend Jase,
but at the same time, it's like, I don't think
he would have originally started that conversation if it wasn't
with the other older boy that has also been in
trouble for not being a great kid on the bus,
et cetera. So I've completely said you cannot hang out
with this boy anymore. But what I did say is
I said, explain to me what happened. So when he
(29:49):
got home from school, I said, explain to me what happened,
you know, And he's like, well, and then he told
the story and I said, Okay, we've talked about this before.
You do not talk about other people's skin color. You
do not. You know that hurts other people, and we
don't speak on that like we can, yes, we can
see that it's different, but we don't need to say
any of that to the other person or make them
(30:09):
feel bad or have any of that. And I mean,
Jason's bawling. He's so upset that he made his friend upset.
And I'm like, listen, you're going to write a letter
to him. You're going to write a card and we
are going to bring it to him at the bus
stop tomorrow and you're going to apologize to him in person,
and you're going to give him this card. I mean,
he's just like am I in Drable, Like I'm so
sorry and mean to her, like the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
He is in what grade first Christian? He's still young.
I do not feel like he was trying to intentionally
hurt this person by saying that.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
But I do think I think that's.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
How the other boy was feeling. Like they were like
making fun of him is what his experience was.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right, And even in that case, he made a mistake
by saying that and making this boy I feel like
he was making fun of him. But bullying, to me,
repeated is a repeated offense, and you're intentionally really trying
to hurt this person. It didn't feel like that to me.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Was I there?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
No, And it could have been worse, it could have
been not. I don't know. It did not feel like
that to me. So I think we just have to
be careful with the word bully. To me, that didn't
sound like Jace is a bully. Sounds like he made
a mistake, that he said something to someone that he
needs to apologize for and that he needs to learn from. Right.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
And that's the thing with the throwing that around is
have I said things that I've regretted on here about
someone else? Absolutely? Does that make me a bully? No,
just means that I had a really crappy day and
I wasn't being a great person. But I don't think
that clarifies me as being a bully. Now, I've also
apologized to anybody that I have offended, you know, whether
(31:48):
it was a direct DM to somebody or you know,
I've sat people down and been like, hey, I'm sorry,
I was you know whatever. But I think when you
one one mistake or even a double defect, like I
don't think that but repeated, repeated, I just think, yeah,
and then that's bullying and that's bad and it needs
to obviously attention. How do I say this, like attention
(32:13):
needs to be had to us?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Did Jace really when you talk to him about it,
did he realize in the moment that it hurt the
kid's feelings?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
So because he said he was like laughing too, and
like that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I think there's still a youngness to this. You have
to remember he's young and he's still learning.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I think just because the color of our skin though
we're not, I don't know the and I don't that.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I would like to here, Yes, I would love to
hear from people, you know, and.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
He has easy for me to be like, oh it's
he wasn't me sure, but what if we had different
colored skin than the effect that it could be on
them because that's what they have had repeated people speak about.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Absolutely, and that's where I think an apology is needed
and he has to you know, learn from But.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It just to me he's so young.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
But there are taugh about those jade though, and the repeatedness,
and like, you know, I'm sure Emmy has been bullied
as well.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I don't know that I would even say that she's
been bullied. Okay, I don't think I would call any
of it bullying what we should call it.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I would call it just some mean girl stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Difference I'm saying, what's the difference between and bullying leaving out?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
To me, leaving out isn't bullying.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Most ninety percent of her issues have been just people
leaving out and not including and feeling like you're alone
because you're not. Is anyone making fun of her skin
or her hair, or her weight or you know, any
of those things? To me, I truly can say, I
don't think Emmy has ever been bullied.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
So your definition of bullying versus mean girl is good.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I don't know that I have a definition, but I mean.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Like, so it's like one is being left out, that's
a mean girl they have said about someone personally bullying.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Now, have they talked about each other before? Yeah, sure,
they've talked about each other before. I still don't think
that that's even bullying. If they were to go up
to her and say something to her hateful and trying
to hurt her, I would say she's been bullied. No
one has truly done that to her.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So it's a definition. What's the definition? Everyone's definitions are
a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
But when we talk about what's bullying you, it's all
what we just had this conversation about people bullying.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
It's kind of everyone's opinion.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Really, it's and it's more personal. So I would I
would say, is if it's an attack against me, I'm
going to say that's bullying because they're being really really rude.
But to someone that's not me, is that bullying or
is that just their opinion of me? So it says
bullying is repeated, intentional and aggressive behavior with the power
and balance used to inflict physical, verbal, or social racial
(34:55):
arm on one or more people. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, see that's why I truly and I don't I
don't know that Emmy has ever used the word when
we've talked about it. That she's been bullied. I don't
know that we've ever. I've been very careful when we
talk about it. I will say mean girl stuff. I
will say that a lot. I'm like, I'm over this
mean girl stuff, but we never say bullying. Having said that,
there are some people that she was friends with that
(35:19):
have definitely bullied other people. I mean, there's definitely bullying
going on, I'm not going to say that, yes, and
even then.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I would.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
This is where my definition feels a little bit different.
There's one specific instance I can say, and I don't
know if it happened again, but to me, it was
still bullying. When you're calling someone awful names and you're
using really derogatory terms, that still feels like bullying to me.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And you know what, how do you feel to be
that bully? You know who's listening?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:50):
You know, yeah, like to say those awful words about
someone to someone, And then again I always go, what's
in them? To say that?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
We have as real hard year last year, really hard
year with this, and I actually I graciously assumed till
I almost didn't have breath left. And then finally I
had to talk with you know, I talked with the
moms we talked with, Like then there was just this
moment with a mom or I could just I could
just tell by her posture, you know, Like I came
to the conversation saying, I want to know if something
(36:22):
Love is saying or doing is like antagonizing this, Like
I have no, I don't have this preconceived notion. I
have perfect children at all, and I want to be
able to talk through and I want them to be
able to learn from this. And it was her posture
and her response that I was like, okay, Like I
started to understand we weren't going to get much further.
And so you know, I just told Love, I was like,
(36:43):
you do not have to be friends with everyone. This
is a really valuable lesson to learn really young. Some
people are not going to be your people. You can
always be kind to everyone, we will always. It's you know,
your character and your intention matters a ton, but you
can't change the way people are going to treat you
some and so it's okay to not be friends with
those people. And so I said that to the mom,
and I said, you know, in adulthood it works the
(37:05):
same way. Some people are just not meant to be
our people, and she was like shocked, and she was
like h And I was like, yeah, it seems pretty simple.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
What did you classify as the bullying for her?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
So this is what's interesting because to me, it just
was the repetitiveness of it, but a lot of it
was the leaving out. But you know, like I still am,
like we can reroute right, Like I just was mean
girled my entire life. So this it hits a sore.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Spot for me.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, and I remember that feeling and feeling so alone.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Which makes me want to cry.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Oh it's awful.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Oh it's the worst.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It just takes you so right back there.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
It does.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
And it because for some reason, I can be forty three,
but in an instant, I can feel like I'm nine
years old, wild and but I have tried to like
really compartmentalize for myself that that's what I went through,
and that she has this opportunity to learn way better boundaries,
way better self esteem than me. You know, like she
(38:00):
has a mom that's actively talking with her about it,
and she doesn't have to feel embarrassed to say that
it happened, right, and she you know, she almost missed
a party this weekend because she thought at least one
of the two characters would be there, and I said,
and if they are there, like, what would make you
feel comfortable. She had a friend that was going that
they're really close, and so they did that together, and
I said, sometimes it takes a little teamwork, you know,
(38:22):
And that's great. She's learning all of that. Yeah, it's
just hard to not as moms. Yeah, of course, Ay,
we don't want them hurting or sad. Ever, it's hard
when they make mistakes because it's an extension of us.
But I mean totally, legend Brush has written so many
apology letters. This dude should have his own stationary stack.
I mean, oh, really something. But we're learning like ownership apologizing.
(38:46):
Mistakes happen.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
We had an instance on the playground with Legie just
recently where you know, there was a kid that I
went into the group me and it was like, hey,
I picked my son up today. He was really sad,
and so I just sent her a message right off
and I said, if it is Legend Brust, I want
to know, you have to tell me. It's the only
way we can have good character refinement. So I've learned
and always everyone doesn't always want to know she did.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Oh yeah, a lot of people don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
She was like, okay, so Legend was one of the players,
but you know, and so I asked Legie, and I said,
you're guilty also if you allow that behavior to happen. Yeah,
like if you're watching it happen and not sticking up
for somebody or saying that doesn't feel good to me.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
That's what I tell Jolie a lot. I'm like, if
you hear someone being mean to somebody else, you know,
or if you're a part, like if you're in a
group with some girls and they're being mean, speak kindness,
that's right, and say you know, well that's not very nice.
She's whatever, Like speak speak positivity and kindness to the people.
Don't don't be the girl that's picking on somebody else.
(39:45):
And you know, she's always the person. The teacher says this.
Every year there's a buddy bunch buddy bench. If someone
doesn't have a friend to play with on the playground,
they sit on this buddy bench and she's like every year,
the teacher says, Jolie is always the first person to
pick somebody from the buddy bench.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
You are too, But yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Most important things I think that they can learn, and
certain personalities have a harder time with it. The followers
have a harder time with it, and then the ones
that have a little bit more, you know, up to
the personality. But I think that's the one of the
most important lessons these kids can learn.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, no friend left behind.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
I love my family and my career, but I'm sorry
to feel like I'm failing at both. I have two
small kids, a packed work schedule, and absolutely no time
to breathe.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Kristin in about it under my alias care listening.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
That's how she tried to trick us two kids.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I actually almost wrote this is funny because I almost
wrote one to hand.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
I was like, slide it in there.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I want to see what the girls say.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
My husband and I barely connect anymore. It's like we're
co managing our life instead of living it together. Have
you ever felt like that? How do you climb out
of that burnout and actually feel close again? We're always
co manager Adams like, go near divorce and then you're
going to connect. Haven't move out, So step one.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I I'll know.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I'll let you know when the kids are gone.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I really it's just a lot.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
It is, and I I have that the only theory
I can hold on to is it's take back tiny,
It's TVT is what we in our little Bible study.
And it's just about like it's like, you know, so cliche,
but find the joy. It's like I'm tired and I
can't shampoo, you know, but it really is about just
(41:27):
like in a day, I'm the most guilty of not
touching my husband. If you had him on here and
ask him what's the one thing he dislikes about me,
I'm just not touching with him, which is so funny,
so touchy with me to be like I wanted to
hug you in said on your hat. I just but
I noticed because.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
There's a resentment piece within it because you don't you
can't go close to someone if you're angry at the person.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Coping.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
I know you have a lot, you know, like your
fresh traded Oh yeah, or I'm.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Just like I don't like I'm not I need to
be helpd you know, like it's like checking her egg.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
Right, don't you see me running around?
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
And and I it's not even my whole it's not
about me.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
The advice that I have is just.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Even though I wrote it in.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
You've definitely so dear listener, You're stunning, And I really
just think it's about just like taking back the tiny bits,
like I have been absolutely just not my own first
priority in the last couple of weeks. I'm also ten
days late for a period and took a pregnancy test.
Oh that was negative, But like I can't trade that
(42:41):
I did it for cutability. But I you know, like
I just really had this moment where I'm like, I'm
what can I do to help myself? And I think
that's where moms and wives specifically just get burned out.
We are not conditioned to feel how can I help myself?
If we try to put ourselves for well, then we
feel selfish, the guilt of shame, society, whatever it is.
(43:04):
But like the last two mornings, I've gotten up and
whether it is fifteen minutes or thirty minutes, I have
done a workout and it is I know.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Sarah Brice called me today and she's like, what are
you doing. I go, I'm working out. She goes, damn it.
She's like Christ and I just talked to Christ and.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, but I think there is a way we get
so overwhelmed that it's like how do you eat an elephant?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Right, But it's really just one bite at a time.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So if you can take back, if you can pause,
if it's taking a walk, if it's it's reconnecting holding
his hand.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Well, that's what I was going to say. And the
true things that like when I feel most connected from
being disconnected is when we go for after dinner going
on a family walk. Yes, and for me at that point,
I'm not you guys know I hate walking flow right,
but it's not you have to get a good one
in before I had a good one.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
This is not for the extracise.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, so it's this is I love just holding his
hands stroll. There's a connection piece in that, and then
the Sunday night's connection like doing the thing that I
talked about in the Banos book is feelings, affirmations, needs,
and then own. So it's just walking through that because
you get connected in that and you're in a good
place to be able to share your thoughts, your needs,
(44:18):
your feelings and all that. So it's on everyday thing
because that's overwhelming if you do it one time a week,
just checking in and you know we've fallen off of that,
you know, and we're getting back in on that because
we realize like how important that actually is. And then
just having that quiet moment. Yeah, the kids are walking too,
but it's us just holding hands and that feels connected.
So just finding ways that you guys can just have
(44:40):
that little piece together.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Like last night, I said a press and I was like,
what's three words you would use to describe me? Anything
that smells like homework? Pressing's out? If I try to
fano that dude, he is like allergic EpiPen. But if
I can sneak it in like we're driving, you know,
and I'm like, you know what I really love about you?
He doesn't even know what to do. And it's hard
sometimes for us to be the ones that do it
for but it really sets a tone.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
So last night I said, what's three things?
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Well, I think too, it's we we want a soft
place to land, but they do too, and I think
sometimes we so much ask for it that we are
not actually good at giving them a soft place too.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
That's right, So yeah, I think you're a piece about
It's okay if the connections with the family, Yeah, like
we've always struggled with that, but I think Nick has
finally understood that because it's like, to me, I feel
more connected when we're doing something as a family, like
stop putting so much stress on it has to be
just me and you, Like we're not in that season
season of life, Like if we can just sit down
(45:36):
for a dinner, because that's so rare these days, that's
when I feel the most connected.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
And I think he started to kind of get that
way off and that's how.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
You feel connected to him.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, absolutely that Also I.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Say it, I think you should have sex as much
as you can, christ I do. I just think we
get so roommate y. Yeah, I'm so guilty of that.
Like it's like you forget like, oh she would I
get to make out with you? That's exciting, you know,
but just we're so we're all just so busy and
pulled a million different directions. It's like chemically good for you.
And if it feels like something that you miss, should
do that. Tonight's Tonight Dear Listener asked Katherine the Eppipen.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Okay, I know we went like bubbly to like depressing
to like and this.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Is why we can't walk in our neighborhood ladies.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
That's a good one.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
See you guys next week.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Bye bye,
Wind Down with Janet Kramer an I'm Heeart radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hi girls, I miss you and I'm away from you,
sweetly coudin.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I just we do that so it's real.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
For some reason, it sounds so fake because I normally
would never do that.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
But we do that. We do real life.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
We do that.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're a great little trifecta. You might do that in
real life, but I never usually would be like.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh, I definitely do that in real life. Hey, what's up?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
You know, it's so funny. I just talked about that
because I was just talking to a friend about a
role and I was like, not I intind myself on tape,
just too bubbly, can't do it. That's wild.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Made me think about it. It's like, we're not bubbly.
I just say that we're not, but we are. But
we're not for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Anyway. I mean sometimes I'm not.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I mean I think I wouldn't say you were typically
bubbly person, right, No, I don't. I wouldn't say that
is like a bad thing, right right?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You know for sure?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
And I think I go in ebbs and flows.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I think you go in ebbs and flows.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, well everybody does.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And some people are bubbly all the time, and then
that just really feels fake. No offense if you're bubbly
all the time. But I can't do that. That's interesting,
Like I have an actual I'm going to go into
this actually no topic.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
You know, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
But Nick has a very very good friend. I should
be careful say this. And his wife love her, sure,
love her, absolutely love her. But I'm like, you can't
be that happy all the time.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I have a question.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah, is that this is just a devil's advocate. I'm not,
I'm not. Just what is it in you?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm sure?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Is like I want to be that happy all the time,
but I feel like even when I'm happy, I'm not
that happy.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
But I think I think because to me.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Nothing that you have something for sure. I probably is
because I always say, well, if someone is you know, uh,
what's the if someone is reacting to an action, what
is something that usually something inside of them?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, for sure, I think my mind is that need
to get deeper. Sure, and it doesn't feel like that
can go deep. Usually if she can, I have not
seen it does not mean that she doesn't does not
mean that she doesn't. I haven't been able to get there,
and I usually can with most people. And so that's
where I'm like, okay, like I think I'm gonna say
(02:36):
it to her one day because she's super sweet, But
would you cannot be this happy all the time?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Is she Southern? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, so am I. But there's something about like some
people that are raised super southern.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Like raised in the same town.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But yeah, but you know, like depending on family, like
they will portray themselves like that, like it's actually unacceptable
in their brain to be anything other than that.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I could see that.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
So that's that's what it kind of sounds like, maybe maybe.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Maybe I just need I need the ups and downs
I think people.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
I mean, I wouldn't be able to be around someone
that is all the time, super happy, all the time,
super down right for sure. That's like I know, we've
been in spaces with people, me included, where it's if
I if I stayed in that place of always being down,
I would probably drag you guys down. And you don't
(03:27):
want to be in that place either. When someone is
just always it's like, okay, get real with me here,
because we got to be you got to have some
sort of struggle, because.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Right, yeah, to be drama, but it's just to have
like a lay like the depth you're talking about, I
think is really it's just about connection.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, And maybe I just haven't gotten to that point
yet with this person. But it is hard for me
to get to that point because I'm like, I don't
buy it.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Maybe she gid so sweet, but and I think I could.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
It's the funny thing, Like, I really think that I
could probably say that to her and she would just
laugh and then still just be happy.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Well, nothing makes me upset, sugar.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I don't know how we got there. It just took
me there.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's funny because I had a little envy this morning. Ironically,
I had to do some pivoting with the children this morning,
and so Caroline, my deep dark, deep dark, indeed and
loving bestie, took the babies for me to the zoo
and I was stuck in traffic that's what we do
here in Nashville, and so I texted her that I
(04:29):
was going to be five minutes later than I wanted
to be, and I left with the big She's doing
me a favor.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
So it's very rude to me for me to be late. Yeah,
I don't like being late.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I'm always late if my husband's involving me here, so
when it's just me and the three kids, I can
usually get us there. Anyways, five minutes late, and I
texted her and said, hey, I'm just like sitting in
NonStop traffic, but we'll be there. And I'm hustling, you know,
And she goes, oh, no worries, And I'm like, oh,
she's probably just being kind because I'm stuck in traffic.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I get there. No, she really has no worries.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Chatted with me like, you know, everyone's meeting at the
zoo in like ten minutes, and she's just just the
most refreshing because I don't operate that way anyway. So
I sent her voice note after and I said, there's
something I deeply appreciate about you, and it inspires me.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah, I don't have nice to have certain Yeah, because
we all hold things differently, we all hold our struggles
differently in the spaces. So she just has three extra children.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, there's no big deal. Have I never heard of
this person?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Caroline Hobby? Oh Caroline, I.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Have Sorry, Caroline, I just wasn't my brain wasn't there.
She's never usually like a first named person. We always
isn't funny?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Sarah Brice? Is that for me too? If you say Sarah,
I'm all right?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Which one she's Sarah Brice Bryce phone?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Oh cute my breast breast? What am I just in breast?
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You're still cremer. I haven't made you a wrestle some
day I don't like to break up with. My best
girlfriend is still Lisa. Uh, Lisa pelophone in my phone?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, that was her real name.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, telophone on the telephone. Oh, she's heard it a
million time. Yeah, and she's she's a no wiki now
you know.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Oh I do have that too for my high school friends.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
It can't change it.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
It just is what it is. But I know it's
back to that other point where it is. So it's hard, right,
How do I say this? Because it's like I have
to Oh no, is it gonna hurt my feeling?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
No?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
No, no, no, no no. I'm always bracing for impact. So
I somehow I'm logged out of my Facebook. I don't
know how. It's been a whole thing. I'm logged out.
So you check it Facebook?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
No, But I did have my community board thing that
I would like to see neighbors. I kind of got
off of it because some of the neighbors were like,
why would you put lights on? I'm like, why would
you care? You know, like agree, you know what I mean?
So I didn't really look at it. But there's certain
things where they talk about parties. And I was at
the bus stop the other day and some of the
moms were talking about, like, oh, are you going to
come on the walk? We're doing like a woman's meet
(06:54):
up walk. And MY first initial reaction was is, Oh,
I'm out, like.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Fair mine would be too, three.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Three and I and I don't and I how do
I say this? Not because I don't And there's so
many new neighbors, you know, that I haven't yet met,
and they all seem so lovely. But there's a piece
of it that it's like I want to get to
know each one on an individual, deep, deeper level, right,
(07:30):
And so it's sweet that I was invited in on
the bus stop chat. When we were chatting about it,
I was like, Oh, no, I'm not on Facebook anymore,
but like, you know, I'm out, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And I did you say it just like that? Well?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Yes, but that had to retract because as soon as
I said it, I'm like, I don't want them to
think that I don't want to chure because that's not
my truth either, like at all. Like some of these
you know ladies, I would I would like to get
to know all of them. Having said that, I to
go on a walk with a bunch of people that
talks just I it just to me. It's like what
(08:07):
you were saying is more of like the deeper level
of connection about things, And I don't know, maybe they
would go there, but also maybe it's okay for people
not to always just to go there too.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
And so I'm like, maybe it would actually be good
for me just to walk with people and just talk
about the random stuff and not be like, so what
are you dealing with? That's heavy and right? You know,
but I do I'm more of like a one on
one with that. I don't know, I just brought that up,
but nice to know that you guys are the same.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, well my problem with that is that gives me
actual social anxiety.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well same, yeah, yeah, it truly does.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Like, hey, I cannot walk into a thing like that
without someone I know, like as a comfort or uncomfort.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
And that is what I was talking to Pam about,
was because I said to her, I said, you know me,
I go, I am socially awkward. And it's not because
I don't want to get to know any of the
other women in the neighborhood. It's not because I think
I'm better than any of them. I'm absolutely not. I
just get socially awkward and then I say things that
make me even sound worse. Yeah, you know, but I
don't mean it from that place. Like me saying I'm
out was my socially awkward because I didn't want to be.
(09:11):
But then I'm like, do they think I'm a bitch? Nah?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well, I think talk is hard, That's what I was
just going to say. And I think that we love
connection so much. I don't mind, like even I've been
noticing even like at school pickup and that's only two
days a week, but I'm like in and out, like
I grab them like hot potatoes and run squealing my tires.
But it's just because the input feels like so much
recently that I don't know that I can engage or
(09:34):
be asked to contribute or participate in anything else. I
also love sometimes just the high level. Yeah, three kids,
you know, just like, yes, I have three, this is
their ages. That's kind of refreshing once in a while.
But I also feel like it I'm going to really
go down for this, but I can't think of a
(09:55):
different way to phrase it feels like a waste of time.
To me. If I'm not gonna have a deep friendship,
I'd rather walk with myself.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Which is interesting because you seem like you're so good
at small talk, like anytime we go places, you talk
to everyone.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And you get a lead for us, truly, like you
take the lead for both me and Cap.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I'm like, I wish I could have come up with
the fifteen questions you just asked that person.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Like, and I mean that it sounds like I mean
it bad, so I'm smiling through it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I truly mean that in a I'm envious of that way,
because I will get into social stuff like that and
I will be like, Okay, what do I ask?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
And then I get so you know, it's just it's
not easy for me. So I think it's great. But yes,
I do hear you on this. Sometimes it feels like
a wasted.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, like you guys, there's only so much capacity. I
think that's what I felt recently, Like I deeply cherish
the friendships I have, and God does give me these
really shiny ones once in a while, and I'm like, oh,
that was fun. You know you forget yeah at our
age that you get to meet brand new people that
you might have forever. That's such a fun thing to
think about. But then other times I'm like, there's no
(11:01):
one here, you know, Like I don't. It's not that
they're not a value or they're not lovelier than I
just don't have the energy or capacity to take on
another person having my number. I straight panicked in the
neighborhood the other day because someone said, oh, I can
give you Crystal's number. Just shoot me your number and
I'll connect you. And I just panicked and shut down,
like stranger danger, Like I don't want you to have
my number because I'm gonna feel obligated.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
To write back.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And I feel so in like overwhelmed. Yeah, yeah, not
my popularity.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Who's got a wine? Was that it?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I have a wine? Okay, I don't really know that
I want to go into it, but but here we go.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
You always love that, like I don't know anyway, so
is the same way.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I'm super anxious. Okay, okay, okay, okay, I don't know you.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I like to calm you, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I hope I don't cry.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Oh, I'd love it if you don't love.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It starts purr.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So Halloween is like really anxious for me, like, well
for my kid, So like th kid at this point,
my middle school kid. So like three years ago Halloween
was when she like had all this huge plan. It
was supposed to be at our house and her group
of friends were supposed to come over. They were supposed
to come over and get ready and all this, but
(12:24):
they ditched her.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
After school.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
No one would answer their phones, no one would you know,
they all ignored her and they all went somewhere else
and got ready.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
But this is last year.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This was like two or three years ago, okay, and
so it was just super traumatic, right, like of course
super traumatic. So you know, I call my friend who's
house that they're at, and it becomes this whole thing. Well,
then nobody wants to go with each other, so Emmy
tries to find new friends to go with. Someone invited
her over. I take her over there, and then she's
like oh wait, no, you can't come over my mom
(12:53):
will My mom said no, so then I have to
take her home and then she's got no one to
trigger treat with, right, So then it was like it
was so traumatic. Well then I completely miss side noted
that as I completely missed trigger treating with my younger
child at all, like completely the whole night, just trying
to figure out where to get her, you know. So anyway,
so Halloween is just it is super traumatic for her,
(13:16):
super traumatic for me. Last year, so we did a
Halloween party a couple of years ago and then things
kind of started to go south with her and her
best friend around that same time of course, and then
last year was like okay, she had like some friends
over or whatever. So I'm just really anxious about it,
and we had another little misunderstanding friendship tift on Sunday,
(13:39):
and so it's just been hell, you know, like I
missed Ramsey softball all day Sunday dealing with this. So
it's like it's like twofold. So I'm anxious about her
and how this Halloween's going to play out, and then
I'm missing everything that my younger daughter's doing essentially here,
you know, It's like I'm so busy dealing with all
of her, so I'm having a hard time figuring out
(14:02):
how to.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Not carry all of that. I think that that's where
I am going wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I think it's like I want to be there so
much for her, and I want to be you know,
like I don't want to leave her in those moments.
I want to be there with her. But I'm like,
am I doing that wrong? Because then I'm leaving my
other child essentially every time?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But also.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Am I carrying too much of it? I think that's
where I feel like, maybe I'm just carrying too much
of her feelings and I need to let her just
have those feelings and not carry it so much.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Can I ask you a question? Yeah, I hate that
you're feeling that. I'm curious because we've you've talked a
lot about your feelings of being left out. Yes, and
that is like your y thing that makes you emotional yep,
and feel triggered. Question because I as as you were
explaining that, can you remind me where that came from?
Like when that started for you?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Again, it started really young because I had two best friends.
We all live right down and they were closer, and
they would you know, started with like physically running away
when like they were young, you know, like you'd go
on the playground and they would literally get together and
run away, you know, and it kind of just escalated.
Now we ended up going to different middle schools and
(15:13):
came back in high school and were able to completely
fix what that was. Okay, I went with some other
just one on one friends that I had because I
think I needed to, and in the middle school years
that are so formative, I think that that was huge
for us. They went and kind of got their friends.
I went of got in mine, But when we came
(15:33):
to high school, I kind of combined with theirs, and
then at that point just kind of understood that they
were closer, but they did such they had grown up,
so they had done a lot better job of it's
those middle school years that it's like they haven't grown
up yet and fully figured out how to And I
don't know if high.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
School gets better. I'm just praying that it does.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Now we are now not really friends with she is
not really friends with any of them anymore. Tried to
this is kind of where things went south this weekend.
She tried to kind of reach out and make some
things better with some people, and we tried and it
kind of backfired, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
At least she tried.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
You know, do you think your anxiety comes from though?
That feeling that you had when you were a kid?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
One hundred?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Coming out in that and then one question what would
you have wanted your mom to do in that moment?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And that's where I think it all. That's where I
think it all comes from. See, that's what's going to
make me cry. Thanks therapist, Jani. I know that I
just don't know how to fix that.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, what would you have wanted your mom to do?
For you?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
To care? You know? I mean it's like she didn't
care at all, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I mean it was like you're a cry baby, you know,
or like I don't know, I don't remember her caring
at all, and so it's like so I almost think
I care too much, and then I get too involved,
and it's like I almost cannot function because she's so upset,
I mean a more upset than she is. And that's
not fair because then I think it gets her even worse,
(16:58):
you know. And I've had some of the moms tell
me that when we're talking about it, like you know,
like if you don't act like it's so bad, maybe
it won't be so bad.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And I'm like I.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
As your or you know, the feeling and that's where
the pain for you is, which is also why you're
trying to fix it. Yeah, but where's the like the
rebuild or the the restructure for you? Right, So it's
like you have to It's like and that's the hard
piece because it's like you want to be there for her,
but also you're healing a you still have a wound
(17:28):
in you that is wanting to be cared for. So
you're doubling down because of that, And that's that makes
total sense. You know why you're doing that, why you're
feeling that. You know, have you asked her what she
needs around it? Because maybe that's that's your way of
helping her through it, right and not just putting your
(17:48):
own just your stuff on it. Because obviously you're going
to be mom and we care deeply as parents and
we see our kids more the way that like obviously
would have wished back then, right, So like have you
asked her like how you can help and just be
like and even maybe she's at the age. I don't know,
can you say, because I get it, Like I felt
that same way when I was going through this with
my friends. Yeah, so I'm curious, like, have you asked
(18:10):
her and then like do that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I mean I've explained that to her, and I've explained
because I mean we'll both be crying, you know, and
she's like, and so she knows. Now, I'm just like
this triggers me, you know, she knows that it absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Triggers something in me when it happens.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I just I don't know how to fully get past
that and not put it on me. I haven't maybe
specifically said what do you need from me? I did
leading up to fall break, you know, I kind of
said something to her and she looked at me and
she said, if I'm not worried about it, then you
need to not be. And I was like, Okay, that's
very grown up of you, and you're right, I need
to you know, And so I stopped worrying about fall
(18:47):
break when she said that. I was like, we're gonna
go and it's gonna be fine, you know whatever. But
then things just kind of keep happening and it's getting better,
you know, it's definitely getting better. I just I know
deep down that that's all the reason. I just don't
know how to not react it is.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
I wonder if there is something thank you for sharing them?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh of course, sorry I cried.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Don't be sorry. That's like a very real thing.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And also because you're just such a good mom, Like
if you didn't care and didn't show, I mean not
to say that whatever, right, Like right, it does. It's
like you just are so invested in the course correction
that that's why it makes you emotional. That's like the
best possible thing a mom could be in it for
the right reasons, is the best thing a mom can be. Yeah,
(19:33):
I'm wondering if there is something you guys can do together.
Not Halloween, but I just mean like through these situations
that maybe starts to heal up those pieces for you,
Like it's therapeutic in itself. And it's not for hers
to not for her to carry for you, right and
not for you to carry for her. But just like
maybe little Kat has a minute alongside her where you
(19:56):
come up with solutions that you're like kind of reparenting yourself. Hmmm,
you know, like maybe there's it's not so much you
looking at each other like what should we do? But
just like okay, like if you're standing next to each
other holding hands, like okay, what would be fun or
what could we do? And like it maybe recreates the
feeling for both of you, like the consistency, you know,
(20:18):
I always say, like consistency and time is all that
create recreates trust. Literally, that's the recipe in my brain.
So if you can just get a couple of those
situations under your belt where it doesn't And I'm saying
this to you because I need to say it to
myself for other situations. But I feel this way sometimes
in our duo ship. I feel like sometimes we're like
(20:38):
scattered making plans or whatever for whatever that is that
stresses me out. But like I feel like I can
default to acting a certain way. So I've been trying
to be like okay, right, how can it's And it's
just like now I'm just making it a game for myself.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
But it's like, okay, what if I try this.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
First, you know, and just to see what feels good
or cozy or what works.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I was trying to do things
differently and then this Sunday thing kind of happened, and
I kind of reacted again, and I'm just like, man,
I just I have to stop putting it on, taking
on her feelings so much, like I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
They might doing that make it might make it more
of a wait for her to write. And that's what
I'm afraid of. Yeah, because anything you like, I don't
want it. Now. I've got my mom's feelings to worry about,
and I can't say anything.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Ye yeah, yeah, no, I will.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I will say that. I mean, she talks to me.
You know, I used to go you know, I had
all of her stuff. We've talked about that, social media,
her phone, all of that. I have since with all
of this, stopped looking at it. I have told her
I can and I have the right. And I went
through it maybe once in the last couple months, just
to check in on things, and everything was good, and
I was like, you know, I'm gonna give you this privacy,
(21:47):
but I'm gonna trust you to come to me and
talk to me. And she really has. I mean, there's
been a lot of things going on with kids, her age,
a lot of things, and she's coming to me and
she's talking to me. So that feels good and I'm
I feel like I've done that part right, but I
do I worry about that weight I put on her.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well, nothing is right or wrong though, Yeah, so I
want you to know that too. Yeah, I do this
to myself. I don't want her to be sure, but
like you.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Want to try, Yeah, and asking her like you, just
asking her what she needs is more than what your
mom ever gave you, right in that moment, you know, yeah,
And you might not have been able to articulate what
you needed then, right, you know for sure, but whatever
she was doing embedded in that she didn't care. Yeah,
And you I know that your daughter knows that you
care about her, and you know all this stuff might
(22:35):
be putting extra weight on right because and you know that,
like you're aware of that, you know, yeah, and you're
talking about it. And so I think that's it's.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So frustrating to be oh, and y'all know this because
we all talk about this all the time. But to
be so aware of something and to know, like this
is why I'm doing X, Y and Z, I know,
how do I stop it?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
That's what's so frustrating in those moments, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
To be so aware but so out of control, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, I will say though for Halloween this year, you know,
it's not necessarily a group of great friends. She's still
figuring out her friendships. But she invited some people that
don't have anybody to go, and so I'm like, Okay,
if anything positive comes out of this situation, at least
she's learning to include people that don't have anybody, So
(23:20):
I will take that for a win.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Anyway, that's my wine about it. Sorry, it from bubbly
to back. No, it's just real.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
This is what this is what ties in the first
part of this conversation.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
This is why we love to be with people.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Oh my gosh, this made me think of this too,
and this is why I was thinking about this again.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
This morning.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I had this sweet lady message me. She had seen
a picture I had reposted of Emmy and some of
her friends when we went to a concert. And there's
like six of them, right.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
They are like.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Newer friends in and out friends. They're not the closest,
but you know they call each other best friends. You know,
everybody does whatever, But this sweet mom messaged me, and
she goes, I have a twenty three year old daughter
who has never been able to find good friends. Your
daughter is so lucky and goes into this whole thing,
and I was like, I want you to know, like,
thank you so much. She is so lucky, but it
(24:11):
hasn't been easy for her either, and.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And so it was just it just reminded me that,
like you can think that it's easy for everybody, but
it's not, you know, and it's just I think it's
just important to remember that because it broke my heart
when she was talking about her daughter not having any friends.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Speaking of daughters, we have bachelor Nations. Jade Roper feels
rage and heartbreak after daughter Emmy is bullied at school.
She opened up. Jade opened up about the harder parts
of parenting after discovering her daughter Emmy is being bullied
at school. Okay, no one prepares you for now for
how heartbreaking it is for mean girls to make your
daughter feel less than She was writing this on her Instagram.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Story, so.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
They addressed it. Almost made it worse now we found
out after we removed her from the certain situations, it's
still happening in a different recreational class, same group of girls.
She confessed. The rage and the heartbreak I'm experiencing is unreal.
Ripper's heartbreaking news about Emmy's mistreatment in school came just
two months after she started the second grade, which she
documented via social media with a series of photos. I
(25:26):
mean that's.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Eight.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Well that was two months after she started the second grade. Yeah,
so that seems early too, And like because I feel
like the bullying chatter for some of that was like
third grade. We had a hard third grade. Love had
a hard third grade year because of mean girls and
air quotes.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I just always wonder, and we've talked about this.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
That's what I was going to bring up. Yeah, something
and I'm not go ahead to Catherine.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Well, I was just going to say, I do feel
like everyone's definition of bullying is very different. And I'm
always curious when people say bullying, like what's.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Happening so obviously, so to me, this seems like a
problem that has continued on so like this is and
it's that is awful and I hate that for Jade.
Now I'm going to take a separate We're going to
go off this for a second. One of And I
spoke to Katherine about this because I was really torn
up about it. I had gotten a call from one
(26:27):
of Jace's friends moms saying that Jace bullied him and
I was like what and like I'm like they're friends
and like Jace is like.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I wish people could have seen my face just now
because I know I'm shocked.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Yeah, so Jace is my I mean, you guys know,
like he's my He's my. I can't say favorite, but
like I know, I can't say that word, but like
he is my soul. Like I'm yes, I love Jolie,
love her so much, but there is a connection with
me and Ja like it is just I can't explain it,
Like he is just my little soul baby, and I
(27:01):
know I overly baby him. I know that. I I mean,
I just I do, and I'm I've worked on that
to not I yeah, absolutely, and I'm trying to you know.
And Alan has helped me to be less of you know,
enabling certain things.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
But I he just to me like does no wrong,
Like I do. Think it's a boy girl thing. I
I would say that I'm tougher on love. Preston can
never be tough on love. He's tough on ledge. Yeah,
and I'm not.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
The middle child thing, the middle child.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I think it's the middle child is a little different,
but it's it's it's a middle child thing too, I think.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
And it's yeah, and but what be knowing that I
have to really try to how I then parent Joel
because I don't want her to feel any favoritism. So
that's where it's I I have to I've had to
really make sure that she doesn't ever feel that.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
So what, So what do you say on behalf of
your client when you get a call like this? I
was my first I'm gonna be honest, Yep, there's no way,
right I did. I was like what, no, no, no,
no no. And I'm of course like, I'm friends with
this mom too, So I was like what, Like, there's
no way, and I asked, I was like, but obviously
(28:11):
I have to listen to what she's saying. So I'm like, Okay,
what did he say? Because this kid is upset like that.
I'm devastated also for this kid. And then I'm like,
oh my gosh, am I just like blinded by my
sweet little boy?
Speaker 4 (28:22):
And is he really just a bully? At school? And
so he was hanging around with a boy in the
neighborhood that was a couple grades older than him and
I had my daughter had come to me and said, hey,
he keeps getting in trouble on the bus and I've
noticed this, and I would even talk to the boy.
I was like, hey, we don't say those words at
this house. If you're going to play with jas like
(28:42):
you're two years older, like just you know, this is that.
So there'd been a few times I've even had to
like talk to this little boy, you know, and I've
had to talk to his mom and this situation. And
so it was him and that boy and they were
commenting on and by the way, this boy also has
a different color skin and of both of the boys,
(29:07):
and so one of the boys was saying to the
other boy, you have different color skin than I do,
and Jace had said, yeah, you do. And so they
were essentially making fun of or talking about the color
of their skin. And so I was like, there's in
(29:28):
my mind again I had trying not to defend Jase,
but at the same time, it's like, I don't think
he would have originally started that conversation if it wasn't
with the other older boy that has also been in
trouble for not being a great kid on the bus,
et cetera. So I've completely said you cannot hang out
with this boy anymore. But what I did say is
I said, explain to me what happened. So when he
(29:49):
got home from school, I said, explain to me what happened,
you know, And he's like, well, and then he told
the story and I said, Okay, we've talked about this before.
You do not talk about other people's skin color. You
do not. You know that hurts other people, and we
don't speak on that like we can, yes, we can
see that it's different, but we don't need to say
any of that to the other person or make them
(30:09):
feel bad or have any of that. And I mean,
Jason's bawling. He's so upset that he made his friend upset.
And I'm like, listen, you're going to write a letter
to him. You're going to write a card and we
are going to bring it to him at the bus
stop tomorrow and you're going to apologize to him in person,
and you're going to give him this card. I mean,
he's just like am I in Drable, Like I'm so
sorry and mean to her, like the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
He is in what grade first Christian? He's still young.
I do not feel like he was trying to intentionally
hurt this person by saying that.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
But I do think I think that's.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
How the other boy was feeling. Like they were like
making fun of him is what his experience was.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right, And even in that case, he made a mistake
by saying that and making this boy I feel like
he was making fun of him. But bullying, to me,
repeated is a repeated offense, and you're intentionally really trying
to hurt this person. It didn't feel like that to me.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Was I there?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
No, And it could have been worse, it could have
been not. I don't know. It did not feel like
that to me. So I think we just have to
be careful with the word bully. To me, that didn't
sound like Jace is a bully. Sounds like he made
a mistake, that he said something to someone that he
needs to apologize for and that he needs to learn from. Right.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
And that's the thing with the throwing that around is
have I said things that I've regretted on here about
someone else? Absolutely? Does that make me a bully? No,
just means that I had a really crappy day and
I wasn't being a great person. But I don't think
that clarifies me as being a bully. Now, I've also
apologized to anybody that I have offended, you know, whether
(31:48):
it was a direct DM to somebody or you know,
I've sat people down and been like, hey, I'm sorry,
I was you know whatever. But I think when you
one one mistake or even a double defect, like I
don't think that but repeated, repeated, I just think, yeah,
and then that's bullying and that's bad and it needs
to obviously attention. How do I say this, like attention
(32:13):
needs to be had to us?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Did Jace really when you talk to him about it,
did he realize in the moment that it hurt the
kid's feelings?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
So because he said he was like laughing too, and
like that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I think there's still a youngness to this. You have
to remember he's young and he's still learning.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I think just because the color of our skin though
we're not, I don't know the and I don't that.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I would like to here, Yes, I would love to
hear from people, you know, and.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
He has easy for me to be like, oh it's
he wasn't me sure, but what if we had different
colored skin than the effect that it could be on
them because that's what they have had repeated people speak about.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Absolutely, and that's where I think an apology is needed
and he has to you know, learn from But.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It just to me he's so young.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
But there are taugh about those jade though, and the repeatedness,
and like, you know, I'm sure Emmy has been bullied
as well.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I don't know that I would even say that she's
been bullied. Okay, I don't think I would call any
of it bullying what we should call it.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I would call it just some mean girl stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Difference I'm saying, what's the difference between and bullying leaving out?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
To me, leaving out isn't bullying.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Most ninety percent of her issues have been just people
leaving out and not including and feeling like you're alone
because you're not. Is anyone making fun of her skin
or her hair, or her weight or you know, any
of those things? To me, I truly can say, I
don't think Emmy has ever been bullied.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
So your definition of bullying versus mean girl is good.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I don't know that I have a definition, but I mean.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Like, so it's like one is being left out, that's
a mean girl they have said about someone personally bullying.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Now, have they talked about each other before? Yeah, sure,
they've talked about each other before. I still don't think
that that's even bullying. If they were to go up
to her and say something to her hateful and trying
to hurt her, I would say she's been bullied. No
one has truly done that to her.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So it's a definition. What's the definition? Everyone's definitions are
a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
But when we talk about what's bullying you, it's all
what we just had this conversation about people bullying.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
It's kind of everyone's opinion.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Really, it's and it's more personal. So I would I
would say, is if it's an attack against me, I'm
going to say that's bullying because they're being really really rude.
But to someone that's not me, is that bullying or
is that just their opinion of me? So it says
bullying is repeated, intentional and aggressive behavior with the power
and balance used to inflict physical, verbal, or social racial
(34:55):
arm on one or more people. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, see that's why I truly and I don't I
don't know that Emmy has ever used the word when
we've talked about it. That she's been bullied. I don't
know that we've ever. I've been very careful when we
talk about it. I will say mean girl stuff. I
will say that a lot. I'm like, I'm over this
mean girl stuff, but we never say bullying. Having said that,
there are some people that she was friends with that
(35:19):
have definitely bullied other people. I mean, there's definitely bullying
going on, I'm not going to say that, yes, and
even then.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I would.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
This is where my definition feels a little bit different.
There's one specific instance I can say, and I don't
know if it happened again, but to me, it was
still bullying. When you're calling someone awful names and you're
using really derogatory terms, that still feels like bullying to me.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And you know what, how do you feel to be
that bully? You know who's listening?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:50):
You know, yeah, like to say those awful words about
someone to someone, And then again I always go, what's
in them? To say that?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
We have as real hard year last year, really hard
year with this, and I actually I graciously assumed till
I almost didn't have breath left. And then finally I
had to talk with you know, I talked with the
moms we talked with, Like then there was just this
moment with a mom or I could just I could
just tell by her posture, you know, Like I came
to the conversation saying, I want to know if something
(36:22):
Love is saying or doing is like antagonizing this, Like
I have no, I don't have this preconceived notion. I
have perfect children at all, and I want to be
able to talk through and I want them to be
able to learn from this. And it was her posture
and her response that I was like, okay, Like I
started to understand we weren't going to get much further.
And so you know, I just told Love, I was like,
(36:43):
you do not have to be friends with everyone. This
is a really valuable lesson to learn really young. Some
people are not going to be your people. You can
always be kind to everyone, we will always. It's you know,
your character and your intention matters a ton, but you
can't change the way people are going to treat you
some and so it's okay to not be friends with
those people. And so I said that to the mom,
and I said, you know, in adulthood it works the
(37:05):
same way. Some people are just not meant to be
our people, and she was like shocked, and she was
like h And I was like, yeah, it seems pretty simple.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
What did you classify as the bullying for her?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
So this is what's interesting because to me, it just
was the repetitiveness of it, but a lot of it
was the leaving out. But you know, like I still am,
like we can reroute right, Like I just was mean
girled my entire life. So this it hits a sore.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Spot for me.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, and I remember that feeling and feeling so alone.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Which makes me want to cry.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Oh it's awful.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Oh it's the worst.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It just takes you so right back there.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
It does.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
And it because for some reason, I can be forty three,
but in an instant, I can feel like I'm nine
years old, wild and but I have tried to like
really compartmentalize for myself that that's what I went through,
and that she has this opportunity to learn way better boundaries,
way better self esteem than me. You know, like she
(38:00):
has a mom that's actively talking with her about it,
and she doesn't have to feel embarrassed to say that
it happened, right, and she you know, she almost missed
a party this weekend because she thought at least one
of the two characters would be there, and I said,
and if they are there, like, what would make you
feel comfortable. She had a friend that was going that
they're really close, and so they did that together, and
I said, sometimes it takes a little teamwork, you know,
(38:22):
And that's great. She's learning all of that. Yeah, it's
just hard to not as moms. Yeah, of course, Ay,
we don't want them hurting or sad. Ever, it's hard
when they make mistakes because it's an extension of us.
But I mean totally, legend Brush has written so many
apology letters. This dude should have his own stationary stack.
I mean, oh, really something. But we're learning like ownership apologizing.
(38:46):
Mistakes happen.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
We had an instance on the playground with Legie just
recently where you know, there was a kid that I
went into the group me and it was like, hey,
I picked my son up today. He was really sad,
and so I just sent her a message right off
and I said, if it is Legend Brust, I want
to know, you have to tell me. It's the only
way we can have good character refinement. So I've learned
and always everyone doesn't always want to know she did.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Oh yeah, a lot of people don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
She was like, okay, so Legend was one of the players,
but you know, and so I asked Legie, and I said,
you're guilty also if you allow that behavior to happen. Yeah,
like if you're watching it happen and not sticking up
for somebody or saying that doesn't feel good to me.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
That's what I tell Jolie a lot. I'm like, if
you hear someone being mean to somebody else, you know,
or if you're a part, like if you're in a
group with some girls and they're being mean, speak kindness,
that's right, and say you know, well that's not very nice.
She's whatever, Like speak speak positivity and kindness to the people.
Don't don't be the girl that's picking on somebody else.
(39:45):
And you know, she's always the person. The teacher says this.
Every year there's a buddy bunch buddy bench. If someone
doesn't have a friend to play with on the playground,
they sit on this buddy bench and she's like every year,
the teacher says, Jolie is always the first person to
pick somebody from the buddy bench.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
You are too, But yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Most important things I think that they can learn, and
certain personalities have a harder time with it. The followers
have a harder time with it, and then the ones
that have a little bit more, you know, up to
the personality. But I think that's the one of the
most important lessons these kids can learn.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, no friend left behind.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
I love my family and my career, but I'm sorry
to feel like I'm failing at both. I have two
small kids, a packed work schedule, and absolutely no time
to breathe.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Kristin in about it under my alias care listening.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
That's how she tried to trick us two kids.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I actually almost wrote this is funny because I almost
wrote one to hand.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
I was like, slide it in there.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I want to see what the girls say.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
My husband and I barely connect anymore. It's like we're
co managing our life instead of living it together. Have
you ever felt like that? How do you climb out
of that burnout and actually feel close again? We're always
co manager Adams like, go near divorce and then you're
going to connect. Haven't move out, So step one.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I I'll know.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I'll let you know when the kids are gone.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I really it's just a lot.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
It is, and I I have that the only theory
I can hold on to is it's take back tiny,
It's TVT is what we in our little Bible study.
And it's just about like it's like, you know, so cliche,
but find the joy. It's like I'm tired and I
can't shampoo, you know, but it really is about just
(41:27):
like in a day, I'm the most guilty of not
touching my husband. If you had him on here and
ask him what's the one thing he dislikes about me,
I'm just not touching with him, which is so funny,
so touchy with me to be like I wanted to
hug you in said on your hat. I just but
I noticed because.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
There's a resentment piece within it because you don't you
can't go close to someone if you're angry at the person.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Coping.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
I know you have a lot, you know, like your
fresh traded Oh yeah, or I'm.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Just like I don't like I'm not I need to
be helpd you know, like it's like checking her egg.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
Right, don't you see me running around?
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
And and I it's not even my whole it's not
about me.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
The advice that I have is just.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Even though I wrote it in.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
You've definitely so dear listener, You're stunning, And I really
just think it's about just like taking back the tiny bits,
like I have been absolutely just not my own first
priority in the last couple of weeks. I'm also ten
days late for a period and took a pregnancy test.
Oh that was negative, But like I can't trade that
(42:41):
I did it for cutability. But I you know, like
I just really had this moment where I'm like, I'm
what can I do to help myself? And I think
that's where moms and wives specifically just get burned out.
We are not conditioned to feel how can I help myself?
If we try to put ourselves for well, then we
feel selfish, the guilt of shame, society, whatever it is.
(43:04):
But like the last two mornings, I've gotten up and
whether it is fifteen minutes or thirty minutes, I have
done a workout and it is I know.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Sarah Brice called me today and she's like, what are
you doing. I go, I'm working out. She goes, damn it.
She's like Christ and I just talked to Christ and.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, but I think there is a way we get
so overwhelmed that it's like how do you eat an elephant?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Right, But it's really just one bite at a time.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So if you can take back, if you can pause,
if it's taking a walk, if it's it's reconnecting holding
his hand.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Well, that's what I was going to say. And the
true things that like when I feel most connected from
being disconnected is when we go for after dinner going
on a family walk. Yes, and for me at that point,
I'm not you guys know I hate walking flow right,
but it's not you have to get a good one
in before I had a good one.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
This is not for the extracise.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, so it's this is I love just holding his
hands stroll. There's a connection piece in that, and then
the Sunday night's connection like doing the thing that I
talked about in the Banos book is feelings, affirmations, needs,
and then own. So it's just walking through that because
you get connected in that and you're in a good
place to be able to share your thoughts, your needs,
(44:18):
your feelings and all that. So it's on everyday thing
because that's overwhelming if you do it one time a week,
just checking in and you know we've fallen off of that,
you know, and we're getting back in on that because
we realize like how important that actually is. And then
just having that quiet moment. Yeah, the kids are walking too,
but it's us just holding hands and that feels connected.
So just finding ways that you guys can just have
(44:40):
that little piece together.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Like last night, I said a press and I was like,
what's three words you would use to describe me? Anything
that smells like homework? Pressing's out? If I try to
fano that dude, he is like allergic EpiPen. But if
I can sneak it in like we're driving, you know,
and I'm like, you know what I really love about you?
He doesn't even know what to do. And it's hard
sometimes for us to be the ones that do it
for but it really sets a tone.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
So last night I said, what's three things?
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Well, I think too, it's we we want a soft
place to land, but they do too, and I think
sometimes we so much ask for it that we are
not actually good at giving them a soft place too.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
That's right, So yeah, I think you're a piece about
It's okay if the connections with the family, Yeah, like
we've always struggled with that, but I think Nick has
finally understood that because it's like, to me, I feel
more connected when we're doing something as a family, like
stop putting so much stress on it has to be
just me and you, Like we're not in that season
season of life, Like if we can just sit down
(45:36):
for a dinner, because that's so rare these days, that's
when I feel the most connected.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
And I think he started to kind of get that
way off and that's how.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
You feel connected to him.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, absolutely that Also I.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Say it, I think you should have sex as much
as you can, christ I do. I just think we
get so roommate y. Yeah, I'm so guilty of that.
Like it's like you forget like, oh she would I
get to make out with you? That's exciting, you know,
but just we're so we're all just so busy and
pulled a million different directions. It's like chemically good for you.
And if it feels like something that you miss, should
do that. Tonight's Tonight Dear Listener asked Katherine the Eppipen.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Okay, I know we went like bubbly to like depressing
to like and this.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Is why we can't walk in our neighborhood ladies.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
That's a good one.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
See you guys next week.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Bye bye,
Host
Jana Kramer
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