October 22, 2025 • 46 mins
The countdown to The Christmas Ring has begun! Jana is hanging out with the writer of her new movie AND the book “The Christmas Ring”, Karen Kingsbury!
Jana shares the story of how she became the lead actress, and we hear Karen’s journey from sports writer and true crime author to making a Christmas movie.
Plus, Karen reveals the shocking reason she decided to write the screenplay for “The Christmas Ring” BEFORE writing the book!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio Podcast. Okay, well,
I am just so excited about our very very very
special guest that we have in studio with us today,
the lovely, the one and only Karen Kingsbury.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yay, so glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It was going to be so fun, Karen. I mean,
where do we even begin?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Anytime I can breathe your air in person is a privilege.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You're too kind, That's sweet, but.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Your brain and heart unmatched. When did I just I
gotn't know a little bit of the before? When did you?
When was your first book? When did you start writing?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well? I got my degree in journalism, and so I
was working for the Los Angeles Times, and that was
as a sports writer. I started off as a sports writer. Yes,
it's that crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, and I didn't really play sports like I ran
track to be near the cute guys. Yeah, it's not
a bad method, that's where they are. Yeah. But it
was it was after that that I got a job
doing sports writing. To start with in LA I fed
the LA Times and then it moved on to a
front page kind of a Sunday feature story, and that
(01:13):
led to four true crime books, which I had never read.
But we were praying for a way that I could
be home with our first child, that was Kelsey, and
twelve hour days were just not going to cut it.
And that's what I was working at the paper. So yeah,
so she and I got to stay home from the moment.
I mean, it was three days before my maternity leave
was up, and that's when I got word that I
(01:35):
had sold this outline that I had given to this agent.
It was all it was an answer to prayer. But
I had no idea we would be I would be
writing true crime. So I did that four books. Then
I wrote Where Yesterday Lives and that was my first novel,
and id't I lost my agent. He was like, what
is this? You were going to do true crime? You
were going to be a still lost your agent? Yeah,
he left. He was like, you know, he said, I
(01:57):
true crime is like your future, Like you want to
write crime. I'm like, I have two babies. I'm like,
this is not what I want to write it. It
was too dark for my heart, and my soul guaranteed
sad ending. You know, it was like a really tragic situation.
So I just was really thankful to write something different
that was on my heart, and you know, where Yesterday
(02:19):
Lives was sort of autobiographical. There was a little bit
of me and my background in it, but the actual
story was all fictitious, you know, in terms of how
it plays out. But it's about a girl who kind
of comes back to her hometown for her father's funeral,
and it's about the reconciliation of the siblings and how
they really had fallen apart and the funeral. Things are tough,
(02:40):
but then they get better and I loved it. So
it took a year to sell that book. And during
that time I thought maybe I'm going to go back
to like waiting tables because there was just no money,
a lot more money and true crime and so but yeah,
by book six I wrote started about the Baxters, and
(03:01):
it was like it was raining from heaven.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
It's just such a testament, though, to the fact that
you left something that just didn't feel right for your soul,
even though that's where the money was, and that's where
your agent was, and that's where your you know, where
your career path looked like it was going, and you said, no,
this doesn't suit me. That's really tough, because I mean
I look at roles again, like when I was pinned
(03:25):
for Hunting Wives and shows like that, where it's like
does that really suit me? No? No, but it's like
is that where the money is and where the work
and where the all the you know, notoriety and exposure is. Yeah,
And so then it's it's that poll to go one
way or the other. And you did it, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, especially when you have one of the most successful
New York literary agencies saying I don't know, Karen, you
were going to be a star.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
You know, he really didn't, do we know him still? Yeah,
he sent him the number one selling books that you've done.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, I think, you know. And he had a very
narrow lane for me. He wanted me to fit into that,
just like you said, and I was finding myself like
between you know, I had young kids, Like when I
walked away from that, they were four and one. So
we were, you know, like singing little songs to Jesus
and we were going to the park and then I'd
go back to my laptop during naptime and be like
(04:23):
he took out his knife and he walked on it.
I was like it wasn't for me so anyway, And
you know it's funny because six books they really didn't sell. Well.
He was right for six books.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Were did you have an agent at that time?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I got a new agent, okay, and he was good
with what I would call inspirational fiction. Okay. And I
really didn't know that Christian fiction was a thing because
I was like, I want to write like number one
your time's best selling fiction. I didn't want to write
anything that was watered down. And I came to find
out that actually, rather than being watered down, that the
kind of fiction I write is more developed. It's got
(04:56):
the physical, intellectual, and the emotional, but it's got the spiritual.
And whether you're running toward God or away from him,
I mean, it's still a part of your story. There's
a deeper piece to your soul, whoever, wherever you're at today,
Like that's the truth. And so I get to write
about the vast, contrasting elements of the spiritual and that's
(05:16):
been just bills my soul.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And you have such an emotional investment in your characters.
One of the things I got the pleasure of, well,
actually I got a very impromptu reading of a book
by Mss Karen at my kids school. I didn't realize
that her grand babies go to where my kids go.
And so when Jana got the movie, I was like,
I know this name. This is crazy. And I was
actually able to meet your husband on set. That was
(05:39):
the first set I'd ever been to. Oh really, yeah,
I've never been to one of Jana's movies before. And
I looked at her and I was like, is it
always like this?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like this is?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It felt sacred.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And anointed and slow and intentional, and I'm thinking, man,
if this is like what you know the movie businesses,
I've been missing out. You know.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I should have tried to do this early. Everybody just
start with no. I slowly learned. But when I was
talking to.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Your husband's Karen effect, yeah, I don't. That is something
I learned that this is the way, you know, for
you saying true to yourself and for the ripple effect
of what that is, that's how it comes to be
on set. But he did mention that you would sometimes
and if you're embarrassed by this, we can certainly cut it.
But he said you would sometimes come out of your
(06:26):
out of your office and you'd be crying and he'd go,
are you okay, and you'd be like, no, you know,
like Annabel died or something, somebody that you spent all
this time invested in as a character and you had to,
you know, a character had to die, and how deeply
it hurts your heart.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It does, and it's still that. It's like, even when
I was writing The Christmas Ring, I found myself just crying.
You know, it's a sign that if it doesn't move me,
it's not going to move you. And to me, you know,
we want to ride the ride of the tens and
the ones, like, we don't want to be hanging out
in the fives. Like and she went to the mark
get she got home muge, I let her know. I mean,
it's like, let's make people feel something when they're reading.
(07:06):
And that's kind of the goal. It's always been the
goal for these books. So yeah, I was like, that's
definitely true. And I'll walk out in the room and
I'll be crying and I'll say, you know, what happened
And I'll say, oh, you know, like you know, Annabel
died and I'm just crying and he's you know, then
the first time that happened, he was hilarious. He was
like kind of like how that his hands like raised himself.
(07:27):
Who is Annabelle? Do we know her from church or
from school? That's what he said, and I said, no, none,
He's one of my characters. And he just like rolled
his eyes all the way to the ceiling. He's like,
how am I supposed to feel sorry for you? I mean,
you killed her, you created her, and you could just
backspace de leeve bring her back.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
We are just one highlight away from her just being
living again.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
What does she want to do? She could go to
the store, she get on, let her gurgeres.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That's right. So but I told her, I mean it
felt so like I said, I could never I'm watching
it play out in my head.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Such a talent.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I think that you don't even realize how much of
a crazy unique talent that is.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Thanks it really is. I mean, God has just given me.
Plus I can do it fast because I raised six kids.
And if they look back, they don't think, oh, your mom,
she was always locked in a room writing, But they actually,
you know, know that I made time for them and
I could write a book in average two weeks and.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Two weeks this is you have no idea. This is
an annointment on your life. For you to be able
to do that.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It is crazy, my suggess out of you. It just
flows out of me. Like somebody cud cuddle up with
like a book and they just like love it. They
get a blanket. I cuddle up with my laptop and
see a book come to life, and I kind of
get to be the very first reader to that end.
I get to really just I'm seeing it play out
(08:54):
like a movie. And this is why I had to
go into film, because I could. I could see it
the way no one else could see it. And my
head and as I'm writing, I mean, I'm laughing, you know,
I'm laughing when it's funny. I'm like laughing hard, and
I'm crying when it's sad. And when the kids were little,
I would be like, if you see mommy crying, I'm
completely fine, just working my book. That was, you know,
(09:17):
was and is still you know, the most like rewarding
thing to not to really be able to step away
and say that wasn't me, that just wasn't me. I mean,
I have to give God all the credit because I could.
I couldn't will it.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
The Baxters became your big Karen Kingsbury moment, right. Yes,
So obviously that's a story that you know, you hold
very close to you because that is what started, you know,
everything with you know, your your name and your books
following and then shows. But is there is that your
(09:52):
favorite or is there another book that has Like some
of my favorite album cuts are the ones that weren't
radio hits.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That's so chas with me. I think I've written I
have like a hundred books published or something, but I
have like sixty something novels. And you know, at the
time I'm writing them, it's like the child. It's on
the stage or on the field up to bat You're
cheering the loudest for that one, and that one is
so special to you. But as I look back, I
mean One Tuesday Morning, which was about two guys that
(10:19):
looked a lot alike, a firefighter and a businessman who
were both in one of the twin Towers on nine
to eleven. I love that book, you know, That's the
one I mean. I usually it ends up being standalones.
I love Ashley Baxter, I love I love the Baxters
like they're like family for sure to me. And when
I go to Bloomington, Indiana. I can see them, Like
I walk up like thinking it's going to be Ashley
(10:40):
and she turns around. It's not like that's how real
it is. But I wrote twenty some books on that family,
and it's almost like they were family. But these other
stories are so like I got to go to belize,
you know, in a distant shore, and I got to
imagine what it would be like to set twelve girls
free from trafficking. Like that's amazing journey to take. And
(11:01):
all the research as a former reporter that was really
special too, to be able to make sure it's accurate,
you know, find somebody who works in that industry and
have them read it, make sure I'm not using the
wrong verbiage or the wrong you know, activities that play
out around that rescue. So I love that. I mean
there's a handful of them for sure, one Tuesday morning,
because it's really about this girl who just does not
(11:22):
believe in God. She does not believe because too many
hard things have happened, and in her mind, her husband's
a firefighter and she feels like, as long as there
are firefighter funerals, how could there be a god?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
We spoke briefly about your journey to coming to Jesus.
Can you just share some of that here when that
started for you and how old you were, and then
you intertwining that into your to your work.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, it was really I wasn't on a journey to
find Jesus. I was actually just on a journey to
be a successful writer. That was really my goal. I
met Donald at the health club. We were working out
and he we met eyes a few times, like our
eyes with me, and then he just came up to
me and just struck up a conversation and we ended
up knowing some people in common, but we ended up
(12:23):
talking like three hours a day. We were both kind
of done our workout and closed the place down, sat
outside talking And you know, back then, you couldn't just
slide into someone's DMS, you know, I mean back then
you had to be brave enough. The guy really needed
to be brave enough to ask for your number and
that I want to take you out, like on a date.
So he did that, and he said, but I wondered
if it would be okay could I bring my Bible
(12:45):
on the date. And to this day, like we just
both laughed, like how did you have the even the
nerve in la like I had never opened a Bible
or you know, we were we went we had a
denominational faith, but it was much more of a tradition
than anything. We went to church, but only in a case.
And so you know, he had the courage basically, you know,
to say and I just thought it was the weirdest
(13:06):
thing I had ever heard, like who And I mean
it took me a few seconds because he was super handsome,
and I thought, I guess there could be worse things
he would want to bring to a date. I don't
know sure. I thought, oh, okay, you bring the Bible
if you want to. I was like this, what is this?
I didn't he was showing up on a bike. I
I shouldn't know what this meant. So it comes to
(13:27):
pick me up and he wants to read Philippians four,
chapter four, and it's all about peace. It's beautiful. But
i'd never heard of a Philippian, no appiens. I didn't
know what this was. No idea.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Tell me what your thought is when he's reading this
to you? What is how quick can we get out
of this to our date?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's where my thought was. So we you know we
I mean literally, I think he took a pause and
I'm not listening to anything he's saying. He's like reading it.
But the thing is, he was on a quest. He
wasn't in he didn't go to church, He wouldn't have
considered himself like having a relationship with Jesus. He was
like coming from a family that had a lot of
brokenness and a lot of divorce, a lot of hurt,
a lot of alcoholism, and he just knew there had
(14:10):
to be something more, and so he was he bought
a Bible on his own and he's just reading the
New Testament, trying to figure it out. So he was
he wanted to read it because he's fascinated by it
and finding peace in it, not because he was trying
to change me, which I think was a key. It
wasn't like he was right away, oh you're a project,
not at all. So this began. So it began this
(14:31):
sort of like as soon as you took a breath,
I was like, there we get check the box. Yeah,
So we ended up taking the date and then for
three months it was like that, like he was just
will not believe what I read in Romans and I'm like,
I really won't. I think I will, I do te,
please make it quick. And it got to be just
(14:54):
and it's like, oh, I was just it was just
too much. So three months around that time and I
really was okay to be down with it. I wasn't
going to change for him and he didn't want me
to change for him. It was literally he was excited.
I'd be like, if your most excited thing the other
person doesn't like, that's not going to go anywhere. You know,
it's not going to be a thing. So anyway, that day,
(15:15):
I and in front of a sunny day in southern
California tennis courts. We just played tennis and he has
something he has to show me, Thessalonian. So I'm like, okay,
I was just over it. So I took the Bible
from his hands. I looked at the verse that he
was trying to show me. I know, poor Donald.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I love him so much, head Donald dat ever, I
just adore him. You guys don't even realize how hard
he worked in crafty and like just the smile and
the energy he showed up every single day, sorry.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Day And he said to say, Hi, I love Donald.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I mean he's telling me these stories over snack mix.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Well, he's like, did you have did you get a
cold water? I'm like, I feel so well cared for.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
He is such a servant, like that is his love
language so much, it's mind blowing. He's at the far
extreme of this, just how can I serve? How can
I help? How can I make a difference? So, you know,
with that sweet personality that he has, and he's so strong,
and he was right on the verge of being a
former NFL player, he was one cut away from making
it on the Falcons team when I met him. Anyway,
(16:14):
so he's shown me this verse, all excited and you know,
full of joy. And I took his Bible and kind
of looked at the verse and I threw his Bible
down on the ground. Did you know this?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
No?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I caring naughty girl so bad?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I mean, this just shows you. I was like, so
I threw it on the ground, and I.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Wasn't like, why did you throw it? Was it?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like? I was just so over it?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
But did you just and at that point, you're just
did you not believe the word? Or was it any
more of a don't shove this on me? Or what
was the actual anger of why you put it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think he was in the actual words themselves. It
wasn't him. I had already by that point I would
have given myself some labels. I would have said, you know,
I was Southern California girl, driving a red Folkswagon convertible,
writing stories for the La Times, you know, hanging out
with pro players, like I had my own sort of
(17:05):
definition of what was good and for me, I would
often say, well, I believe and I've learned since then,
if you start your sentence with I believe, it's probably wrong,
like it's probably if it's fine. If I say I
believe fall is the most beautiful season. But if I say, well,
I believe we should be able to do this for
God in God's world as to it's right or what's
true or what I've learned, that that's a good sign
(17:27):
that you're still learning. There's still a lot to go.
So I believed in a lot of things that when
this particular verse on that day, it felt like it
was just almost right to my heart, like it was
very convicting of the way I thought it was good
to live versus the way God was calling me to live.
And I didn't like that. I was like, everything I
(17:48):
knew and I believed in God, but I was like,
it's nice to put make your own God. It's kind
of nice to have him fit into your own box
of what is okay.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Way more convenient.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's way more convenient. And so this was making me
feel like I was wrong, to be wrong, and that
was I think the instant. I don't have a temper
like it was the weirdest moment. So the Bible lands
on the ground, and as it would, as God would
have it, it broke in half. The whole binding. What yes,
the Bible, and this is his special Bible that's like
(18:16):
highlighted underlined like it was. He has little little notes
in this. It was very precious and broke right the
whole binding split right in half. And I was horrified,
obviously and myself. He picked up the pieces and he
wasn't going to fight, just gave me kind of a
sad look and got in his car and left were
we had met the tennis courts that day, so I
would say with my car and I thought, first I thought,
(18:37):
the earth is going to open and I will be
the first person straight to hell. So that's not going
to work. You know that you can't break the Bible
to try to prove your beliefs are better than the
Bible somehow, you know, just wasn't going to happen. So
then I thought, okay, I'm My next thought was I'm
going to prove him wrong, like I just don't know
the Bible. And if I only knew the Bible, then
(18:57):
I would be able to show him. Well, but what
about this verse? About this? I didn't know anything about it.
So I decided to go to this little Bible bookstore
I had passed by all my life in the San
Fernando Valley, you know, as a valley girl there in
LA and I'd never been inside. I had always thought
that this particular store was very strange, like what's a
Bible bookstore? I didn't really know a value book and Bible.
(19:19):
And I went there, went in, found a person working
at the front store, and I said, I need a Bible.
It needs to be in English, I need to understand it,
and I need some way to look up words. So
that's a concordance, and I didn't know that at a time.
And there's no apps. So I got these two heavy books,
marked them out to the car, and I don't get
out of the parking lot, like I'm just going to
look a few things up to start with, and they're
(19:40):
not there. What I believed, you know, under my well,
I believe, I believe just because I felt like it
was right, just wasn't there. And I heard the most gentle,
loving voice from the Lord. I just it was the
first time I'd ever heard like. It wasn't audible, it
was in my heart, but I heard the Lord say, well, Karen,
you know I love you, and you have a choice.
(20:03):
You can fall away with your man made beliefs, or
you can grab onto my word and never let go.
How was that moment? It was just like and I
knew and I just grabbed. I'm like, I'm not falling.
And I also noticed as I was reading the words
that day and the Bible, they spoke to me. It
wasn't someone trying to show me something. It was just
me reading. I'm like, this isn't hard to read it
all this is you know, It's like it's like a
(20:24):
letter right to me. And how could it have been
written thousands of years ago and still apply so much
to who we are today as people? So I was
just like it was like a scales off the eyes
kind of moment. It was a dramatic change and shift,
and he forgave me.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And did you rebind his bible with yours?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I would have kept it. I really don't even know
what happened to those, you know, those two pieces. Maybe
we do have a minute box somewhere, but I bought
him a bible.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Have you written this story? I haven't written it into
anything just because i'd say times, But I think this
story is so true to you. And I'm not saying
you were like this lost girl, but if you, if
you you were lost in your ways right, this is
a beautiful coming to life story. I'm surprised you haven't
written the story of you.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
There's a little bit of that in that first novel,
because I thought, well, I can't do myself, so I'll
use my own a little bit of it. But there
wasn't enough for me to say it.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Was God is moving, are moving, there's falling into a.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I think you should write it and call it Unbound,
and I think it should be about your deep love
for the sweet man who just hosts and loves you.
My favorite thing about meeting him with you is I
feel like he has to die though.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
In the end. Oh why, I'm sorry. There has to
be some like it's almost like a walk to remember vibe,
you know what I mean. But like this is why
finished books. Fun fact, But I do love.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
What I admired about you both was this deep admiration
that you have for each other. That was, you know,
in marriage. We talked a lot about marriage here and
just how deeply proud he is of you and the
way he lights up when he talks about you, and
you know, he was connecting with me, he was connecting
(22:19):
pieces of my life with your life, and it just
was like, well, you know, Karen lived there and Karen
did that too. It just he beams when he talks
about you. So I'm sure glad he loves this Bible
breaker because you're special amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
If he ever forgave me.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Is like, well if he didn't, then what Bible is
he reading?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's true? That's so true.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I mean that was the most in action.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, he completely ends and feet Yeah exactly. You know,
he he'll tell me because I do public speaking or whatnot,
you know, and you know, might be in front of
my favorite would be like Liberty University. There's thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen thousand students and that's a big stage to speak on.
And he's like he has to find a way to
come and he'll say, I'll say, my favorite thing to do,
(23:02):
Karen is watch you on stage. Oh it's the sweetest thing.
And then likewise for him, he's a basketball coach and
he just got he had taken a few years off,
but he just got a job at Franklin Christians. Will
be there doing coaching and again and I am his scorekeeper.
So I always sit there and just be coach Russell's wife,
you know, which you know, that's just a good dream.
(23:24):
And so yeah, that's my married name.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Is your dream as well? Yeah, Trussell's wife. How do
you how do you weave in your Christianity? Because I
watched you do it when you wrote the script with
with Tyler. But it's interesting though too during this and
you know a little fun fact, there was some taken
out too, because you don't want to shove it down
(23:49):
people's throat, but you want it still a piece of
the story. So kind of walk us through how you
balance that act and then why some of the things
because there was a you know, some moments where we
were gonna read some scripture in the movie and then
or there's just certain pieces, really, well, let's take this out.
This feels a little bit too much. What called you
to do that? And then how do you weave it through?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Like to me, I see the story as one organic story,
and I think if I step out anytime I step up,
if I were to be tempted even to step away
from that and try to teach somebody something with the
movie or the book, that's wrong. That's not going to work.
People are very aware of what is organically realized. It's
okay if I'm watching your story play out. But the
(24:31):
minute your story starts to feel like, actually, actually I'm
teaching you something, that's when you've gone too far, and
it's you know, this is not a preachy kind of
and not my books aren't that way, and certainly The
Christmas Ring is not that way. But it's beautiful to
watch someone else who has a faith struggle and then
(24:53):
find hope and redemption or even if they lose everything
still to be able to find the ability to breathe
and to walk forward word. And if I'm watching that,
then what happens is the message of that comes in
through the back door of the heart. And like I
always would say that when Jesus wanted to tell you
something straight he would he'd say, you know, I am
the way of the truth. Them a life, and there
is no one that comes to the Father except through me,
(25:14):
just straightforward. When he wanted to make a point, he
might turn over a table, but when he wanted to
touch your heart, he told a story. So it shouldn't
feel you should never feel like a character in that,
like like, oh, they're talking to me, they're they're they're
speaking to me. The overall feeling will land on someone
like that, and that is not. The goal is to
tell you a truthful even though it's fiction, a truthful
(25:38):
story of somebody else going through a problem and finding
hope in their genuine faith. But genuine faith does not
mean that every time I pop in the room, I'm
reading scripture, or every time I lost your Donald, unless
you're Donald and he.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Serving love.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
That's right, that's so funny, that's exactly I think he
has actually made some ten jokes about it. The next
time we played Tennessee, Brookes ankle, so that was just
like a he was like, now you need to find
some scripture for me. But but yeah, you know, it's
not authentic to other people if you if it's too much. Sure,
you know, anything faith related is going to be like
(26:17):
cayenne pepper and a recipe, like a very tiny pinch.
It feels people will completely You'll draw them in and
they'll say either wow, I want that. I love how
that helped that person, or they'll say that's me. I'm
like that too, and they'll they'll own the whole movie,
will feel like it's in their worldview or the world
that they want. But if you are trying to force things,
(26:39):
it's just the whole thing. You lose the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well, let's talk about the Christmas Ring because this was
flipped and how things normally happen. Usually you have the
book and then the movie or the TV show happens.
But tell us how Christmas Ring. And I wasn't even
supposed to play the leading.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
They're faking freaking news, but they got me so well.
And this is you know, I prayed on the way here.
I really did about like how do I talk about this?
And because I want to be sure like the other
kinds of movies that are Christmas movies. I just want
to go on record there there. They're a lot of fun,
and they're you know, they have their own value within.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
They've all done them and we all love them.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
There.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I mean, it's like you're looking forward to it every
year to see, you know, what's what these different platforms
are going to come out with. And they're great and
they're wonderful fun. But I wanted to do a movie
that was an elevated experience, like something you would want
to watch again and again and again. And the initially
I had we were I was partnering with a platform,
I'll just say, and they have certain actors that are
(27:39):
in there on by contracts, in their staple of talent,
and so this particular you know actress I absolutely love
and I'm friends it's great. Yeah, she's great, She's fantastic.
But once things didn't work out at the upper level
in terms of it being initially it was going to
be an easy quick you know, we would just write
(28:01):
the script and maybe Tyler would direct it, but it
would be not any of my time and not any
of my resources. But they really couldn't pull it together
financially in a way to be able to make it
look like it should, and so we in a very
friendly way, and we're still very friendly. We just you know,
eventually someday it may come to their platform years from now,
but it won't be there to start. And I wanted
(28:22):
to make myself, so we said we make use with
our own resources and we would film it here. And
so then I didn't get to have her, even if
I wanted her. I mean, that was just not I
couldn't have her. So now it was like, well, this
is the whole clean slate. So my first you were
my first choice of them. I just don't have to say.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
You don't have to say. Usually I'm like the second
or third. No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You actually weren't. No. I mean, I don't know how
that could be, because you're so talented, Jana, so talented.
I mean, it's amazing, like she it's like the river
runs so deep, and I know that's true in your
life and you can't fake that. I really don't think
no matter of talent of an actor, if they don't
have the deep well within them, they can't bring into
the screen. And you're just I mean, I don't know
(29:07):
the story of the Christmas Ring brought that we have
a military widow as the lead character. So there's no
way that can be somebody who doesn't at least show
that they've been there a little bit in their heart.
So yeah, you were just I mean, we were thrilled
we got you were our first get knew that was
number one. We had an actor and that when it
was a public announcement, we actually had Christopher Polah who
(29:29):
was the He's a Hallmark actor who was going to
be the lead. But that was with the other actress
that was with the other or other lead that we
did we lost, and so it was just kind of
one of those things where I thought, I'm not sure
that's going to work age wise, like pairing wise. I
wasn't sure how that would be. But I we'd kind
of already offered him, So what do you do? But
(29:49):
literally two days after we started pre production, he quit
and he called us and he said, so has the
agent called, I'm so sorry, like his you know, homework
doesn't want him to do it unerstandably because he had
by then he gathered up another Christmas movie with them,
So how do you and you know, his thought was,
I'll just talk about both and their thought was like,
uh no, that's not going to happen. So he had
(30:12):
to quit. So I totally understand it's his life, you know,
as bread and butter, but he's going to be working
for them, and so now I have a clean slate
on the guys. And I'm like, who would really be
good with you?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And she's texting me and I'm like, Karen, we are
filming in a week.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I was like, what is happening?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
This is crazy and the ship is already Oh I know,
I'm sure you were like. Plus, you know, I'm a
new filmmaker, like I really am, and I mean, I'll
be the first to admit, like I'm always trying to
get better with them, but it starts second movie, so
you had to Obviously thankfully you love the script, but
like you're putting your trust, you're putting your reputation, you know,
(30:50):
into that we're going to make you look beautiful, that
we're going to bring out the best in you, or
that we're even going to show up, you know when
we say here's day one. So I'm sure that was
my least favorite call to make. Tyler was like, you're
gonna call it ya. Let her know that we don't
have a male lead, I said, I I have deal.
We were I think in the Bahamas on some vacation
(31:11):
during that week.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
But I loved who you. I loved your vision. I
already knew the vision and it was I yes, so
sad to see Christopher go, but at the same time,
I'm like, Okay, fine, clear slate, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And I was so happy with who you said you
were going to go out to, and so yeah, I
felt very blessed.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah. So Benjamin, I mean I had never obviously never
worked with him. He's mostly known for being on Virgin River,
but he has as so he's so affable. On top
being very handsome, he's very likable. Yeah, and I didn't
see the seasons where he was like people that he
was like a bad boy or something.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I guess I never watched Virgin River, so nothing going
in at all. I just knew he was like, yeah,
this bad boy from Virgin River. And then I met him,
and I mean I just I loved him. I don't know.
So it's like we had this great chemist and he
was incredible, like it was amazing his family, and then
on screen he made me better, Like he's just he
(32:10):
elevated the material and therefore I had to also meet
him there.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, but you did the same for him. I mean,
there's no question that your depth brought out like he is.
That I think that part of the reason it worked
so well and people, I think, I really believe this.
At ten years from now, twenty years from now, people
are going to try to figure out what the formula
was to find chemistry like you and Ben have on screen.
It's I mean it's breathtaking chemistry. But it's not just
like you know, sexual tension chemistry at all.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
No, it wasn't like that at all. There was just like, yeah,
we had That's where I'm like, there's a soulful thing
that it was like we knew each other in a
past life or something or because it was just yeah,
not it's not to say see your feeling yeah, like,
but yeah, it was. That was the I've never felt
that with a co star before, having that just like
that friendship connection chemistry with someone.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, to me, it was I think partly because you
both are deep. Yeah, just some people are and some aren't.
And some people can just step onto the set and
it's a job and they turn on the emotion that's
required and they do a great job and that's fine,
then they can just check out, go home. But you
run very, very deep, and it's partly your life experience,
partly you have a poetic heart. I mean you just
have a beautiful soul, beautiful heart. It's so true. And
(33:19):
I felt I walked away feeling like a like a
family friend that get close to you because of that
depth and you allow people in, which is also a
huge gift that you have that you allow the So
when people watch this movie, they're going to see into
your soul, like into your heart, and that's a lot
of actors also will put that well up and be
someone else. But you bring enough of Jianna Kramer to
(33:41):
that role and to this role in particular, and Ben
Ben nurtured that. And that was the thing is that
he's deep. I mean he's also a poet and named
his kids after you know, literature, like that's he's you
know when you're wanting your kids name Hemingway. I mean
like there's some depth there and he loves poetry. So
I thought, oh, my goods, who knew this about this guy?
You never know you're hiring someone to be in a movie,
(34:03):
it's like, not until you really get on set that
you're like, hope they get along, hope they enjoying this
experience because they need to pretend like they're madly and
love in a beautiful, hard way. And that's what I
think too. Is different here is that you know the
kiss at the beautiful kisses at the end that time
was so beautiful, but you know it was more than
that beautifully deep loved it. It was just I'm gonna
(34:26):
just cannot wait for people to see it.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
So you wrote the script and then you wrote the book. Well,
I needed this, I need this to be a book.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
That's it because and it won't matter which way people
like you could definitely watch the movie first and then
get the book or get the beauty. It doesn't matter
because they were so similar. But what you can do
in a book that you can't do in a film
is give more detail. So there's a really beautif offul
scene toward the end of the movie, and I don't
want to give away too much of it, but it's
a decision that Vanessa Mayfield has to make about let
(35:08):
this is something aligne that you know your character says,
and that you say so beautifully is the kind of
the key is to know when to hold onto the
past and when to let it go. And obviously it
will always shape us and be a part of us,
but you sometimes cannot move forward until you are willing
to let that piece go somewhat and you have to
reach this place where you have to let something go.
(35:30):
And the beauty of that moment, the beauty of that
the depth of what you're experiencing. You gave us five
thousand words in that moment, and that's, I mean, way
more than I could have ever asked. But I love
that I can take the book and let people read
those five thousand words, let them actually relive what it
was like when you got the knock on the door,
(35:51):
what it was like to marry him in the first place,
what it was like to raise you know, Sadie with him.
Like that same piece, that same moment in the book
gives us way more detail that we just cannot get
in a movie.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So when the book is available now and the movie
comes out November sixth in theaters, but you can actually
buy the book now, so if you want to read it,
if you're a read before the movie, are you a
read before the movie kind of goal.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Typically this time, I'm going opposite because you're my first opposite.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, and because I think people are they going to
be obsessed with this movie. They're going to want to
see it again and again. We just showed it to
five hundred women on this last weekend. They got a
preview of it more than a three minute standing ovation
at the end. This incredible. And then they would come
up to me and they'd say, you have no idea
how many times I'm going to see this in the theater,
Like I'm going to take my husband and I'm going
to take my girlfriends. I'm more. It's just they loved
(36:38):
it so much. So if they love it that much
and they want more, they're going to get the book.
That's where they're going to get more.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
My first time going to a premiere. Are you able
to come? Because I know you have a baseball game?
They moved our last baseball game later. I get it.
I had to miss your thing because my kid had
a softball game, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
But I'm also the kids were able to be extras
in your film, and that has just shaped their brains.
So between the two of you, you have gifted my kids.
This really like a level a lid off kind of
mentality that is really I mean, I can't imagine who
I could have been if I got that at seven
and nine years old. And so they you know, you know,
(37:18):
it's the big premiere night, and I'm like, I know,
but you're also versus the.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Trash pandas that you know, field four and so.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
But they've moved the last baseball game of the season too,
two days later, because God always makes a.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Way for us.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
I said it even on the show. I was like,
got them move the pieces. Nothing's ever the same, you know,
and so we get to come and they get to
be It's fun. They've I've got a lot of dms
saying like did I just buy love in this movie?
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I'm like, you did? This is awesome. What is your
favorite part about Because you were on set every single day.
I mean you were walking around, you know, making sure
everyone is fed and just happy and good hydrated, and
then you're watching the scenes and you're you know, because
you're obviously a producer as well on it. So what
did you experience on that you didn't think that you
(38:02):
were going to experience? Like, what is something that was
just like I didn't know I would feel this or.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, you know sometimes when you're watching a movie. First
of all, when you're watching a movie, you're it's edited,
it's colored, it has the score, it has all the
things that needs to draw your emotion. And we have
all that in the Christmas Ring. I think what I
wasn't expecting this is this movie has a fair share
of humor too. It has some you know, it's fun.
It's a scenes with Kelsey and the guy. Yeah, hilarious.
(38:28):
There's so fun. And you know, our little grhand boys.
I didn't think kids would end up like in this movie.
It's a date night. It's a matter. But the grandkids
are nine, seven and five loved it, like they were like,
Gary was so funny. He was so funny. You had
the funny hats. We just enjoyed it. So but what
you don't expect and this is again only my second
movie where I'm on set every minute and where I
(38:48):
get to have a you know, I'm the one saying
yes that art piece, yes, that costume, No, not that
art piece. You know, so this is the second time
for that, and she.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Just like cover your boobs up more grammer that yes,
not that shirt the Holy Imagination, you know what I mean,
Less Garden or Karen Gingsburg Fair. I was like, it's.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
But there are I want there to be certain like
fingerprints of my movie that people know, Hey, if the
kids walk into the room, there's never going to be
a moment. But you just know you're But I love
that you got that though. I know that you were
like there's a little bit of a pattern with these outfits,
but they're not like.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Boring, grageous. I love you and I get it.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, but I wasn't expecting the emotions from me because
like I wrote the movie. We wrote Tyler and I
wrote the script and then I said, I can't do this.
I got it rife got out of book. I can't
just have the movie, so quickly wrote a book. God.
I mean, so I was working two sides of things.
I was going fast. And by the time we got
to being on set and watching your scenes, like you're
seeing when you're talking about your husband who passed away
(40:00):
working as an army medic overseas an ied and you're
telling that story. I mean, I'm in theory. I should
be in a left brain place going is that air conditioning?
Going to be able to be you know, taken out
are we But I literally was so drawn into the
scene and that happened several times that I'm crying, like
I'm back there just wiping tears like that happened in
(40:23):
just more than I ever expected. So I think it
was it was a little bit of of God like
letting me know this is going to be amazing, Like
and I kept when I'd pray about it, because we
prayed all the time, like go or make away, help
us because it's all been so quick and fifteen days
film a movie that will be timeless, is way too short.
But you know, we had the Jenny, You're so gracious,
(40:46):
like it's going to be you know, it feels like
one hundred and nine, and you're like, that's fine, bring me,
let me wear the coat. You're totally good.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
But Donald had a sweet cooling car outside, so he
was just made sure we were nice and snuggled up.
But I think there was something else too that we
spoke about. There was a moment in this in the
movie with Kelsey where there was that father son, yes,
a parent relationship, and obviously having Kelsey was a huge gift.
I mean, he's incredible. He was amazing. But there's also
(41:13):
forgiveness in there too, and I think it's so beautiful
because we've talked about parents and the journeys and to hear,
you know you what Kelsey says in there. I even
when I watched it back with you in your screening room,
I felt it and was like, man, what a beautiful
thing that this parent has said to his son.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And I think that was probably the moment that I
expected it to be emotional the times when you made
me emotional and Ben your interactions, but with Kelsey, I
never realized. The people who are going to be touched,
they have a strange relationships with their adult kids, and
it's who knows whose fault it is. It's going to
be different for each situation. People are so hesitant to
(41:55):
just say they're sorry. And in this scene, because Kelsey
Grammar's care has been very hard headed for a good reason.
You know, he's found this treasure. He's an antiques dealer
and for the first time in his you know, decades
long career, he has found the diamond and the rough.
He has found a ring that even Vanessa Mayfield thinks
his costume, but it isn't it's actually worth twenty five
(42:17):
thousand dollars, and finally he's going to get to take
this trip to Italy that he's always wanted to take,
that his wife always wanted, and now she's passed away.
So there's an emotional reason why he doesn't want this
to be your ring of Vanessa's ring. But he has
a very strong, a very strong sort of negative attitude
for his son, saying like that's enough. He really yells
(42:39):
at him and it becomes like a really In fact,
some of the people who's like in the industry, who
are more on the platform side of Christmas movies said
he's too intense in that scene, but he's not, because
resolution and reconciliation is only going to be beautiful if
the conflict was strong and it was between them. So
then have this moment in the hall at this antique
(43:01):
shop where they work, and they had this beautiful moment
where he the Kelsey Gramma's character says I'm wrong and
I'm sorry, and the moment was electric and all of
us like, we need to get a box of tissues
in video village because it was like, I think we
were all thinking of families and friends, sisters, whatever, that
we know that have strange relationships with their kids, and
(43:22):
it could look this simple. I was wrong, I'm sorry,
and then just have the hug and come back back
to the beginning where you began. And I thought people
are going to be weeping in the theaters going I'm
making you know, even if it's not your fault, you know,
just reach out and just say for anything I've done,
I'm sorry. And it's just a obviously God wants us reconcile.
(43:44):
They doesn't want the separations, and they're saying no. And
you've talked about this like the whole like no contact
thing is smart when you're in an abusive relationship, and
it's also a way too frequently used just as a
way of saying you annoy me. I'm going no contact
adult kid. So you know, it's it's hopeful. And I
didn't see this. I didn't realize how impactful the father
(44:07):
son and even the mother daughter relationship with you and
Sadie was going to be to the story.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, I mean, I'm so excited for everyone to see
this movie. I really am. I have not I have
like counting down the days.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
I think also because there hasn't been like a Notebook
feeling Christmas movie for me, ever, there's never been that.
You know, we have of course, we have the iconic holidays, yes,
and for Christmases yeah, but we haven't had the depth,
I think and something in my opinion that this presents
(44:43):
itself to be. And I haven't seen the movie in full,
but I have got to witness two people that I
really admire and written by someone I also admire, and
Ben's family was exceptional and to watch Jana do what
Jana does was crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah. I mean, Janna, you have the I'm candy and
I know you've been you know, so you've been an
actor for forever. I mean you're so talented and so gifted,
and it's skilled, but it isn't an act when you
had the looks you give, like when you're watching you know,
Ben read the story to the kids and he's actually,
this is what we talked about, like, don't let's have
him ad lib instead of and the last bit can
(45:19):
be scripture, but the beginning, you know what he's story
talking about. So he crushed it. Yeah, but your look
to him because we I mean, the way that's worked
into that piece, I mean, that's all your wants right,
just all we want is to be able to know
we can look at a guy with that kind of
admiration and respect and longing of you know that that
connection is other worldly. I mean it's deep. So yeah,
(45:43):
I mean when I look at my moments that really
bring tears to my us and really make me know
this is going to be such a huge hit movie.
I mean, you're right there, like it's these looks, these
you and Sadie in the kitchen when you're talking about
when you know, Ella comes in and she's saying, I
don't really want to be in the family practice, you know,
practicing law, and then you've already had this conversation with
(46:05):
Sadie about how when kids get to be that age,
their future has to be they have to lead the way,
and they've had all of these years to be shaped.
And even though you would expect that you would be
a teacher, your character she's going to want to be
a photographer. And when Ellis says that in the kitchen,
and then you and Sadie exchange a look. But it's
your look. It's so deep, it's ocean deep, and it's
(46:27):
just gold. So that's thanks. People are going to be thrilled.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Well, I'm excited hopefully to be in a next one
with you.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yes, I want that.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Everyone go watch The Christmas Ring in theaters November six. Also,
the Christmas Ring Book is available now and yeah, we'll
see you November six. We hope you love it. Thanks Karen,
thanks so much
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio Podcast. Okay, well,
I am just so excited about our very very very
special guest that we have in studio with us today,
the lovely, the one and only Karen Kingsbury.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yay, so glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It was going to be so fun, Karen. I mean,
where do we even begin?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Anytime I can breathe your air in person is a privilege.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You're too kind, That's sweet, but.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Your brain and heart unmatched. When did I just I
gotn't know a little bit of the before? When did you?
When was your first book? When did you start writing?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well? I got my degree in journalism, and so I
was working for the Los Angeles Times, and that was
as a sports writer. I started off as a sports writer. Yes,
it's that crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, and I didn't really play sports like I ran
track to be near the cute guys. Yeah, it's not
a bad method, that's where they are. Yeah. But it
was it was after that that I got a job
doing sports writing. To start with in LA I fed
the LA Times and then it moved on to a
front page kind of a Sunday feature story, and that
(01:13):
led to four true crime books, which I had never read.
But we were praying for a way that I could
be home with our first child, that was Kelsey, and
twelve hour days were just not going to cut it.
And that's what I was working at the paper. So yeah,
so she and I got to stay home from the moment.
I mean, it was three days before my maternity leave
was up, and that's when I got word that I
(01:35):
had sold this outline that I had given to this agent.
It was all it was an answer to prayer. But
I had no idea we would be I would be
writing true crime. So I did that four books. Then
I wrote Where Yesterday Lives and that was my first novel,
and id't I lost my agent. He was like, what
is this? You were going to do true crime? You
were going to be a still lost your agent? Yeah,
he left. He was like, you know, he said, I
(01:57):
true crime is like your future, Like you want to
write crime. I'm like, I have two babies. I'm like,
this is not what I want to write it. It
was too dark for my heart, and my soul guaranteed
sad ending. You know, it was like a really tragic situation.
So I just was really thankful to write something different
that was on my heart, and you know, where Yesterday
(02:19):
Lives was sort of autobiographical. There was a little bit
of me and my background in it, but the actual
story was all fictitious, you know, in terms of how
it plays out. But it's about a girl who kind
of comes back to her hometown for her father's funeral,
and it's about the reconciliation of the siblings and how
they really had fallen apart and the funeral. Things are tough,
(02:40):
but then they get better and I loved it. So
it took a year to sell that book. And during
that time I thought maybe I'm going to go back
to like waiting tables because there was just no money,
a lot more money and true crime and so but yeah,
by book six I wrote started about the Baxters, and
(03:01):
it was like it was raining from heaven.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
It's just such a testament, though, to the fact that
you left something that just didn't feel right for your soul,
even though that's where the money was, and that's where
your agent was, and that's where your you know, where
your career path looked like it was going, and you said, no,
this doesn't suit me. That's really tough, because I mean
I look at roles again, like when I was pinned
(03:25):
for Hunting Wives and shows like that, where it's like
does that really suit me? No? No, but it's like
is that where the money is and where the work
and where the all the you know, notoriety and exposure is. Yeah,
And so then it's it's that poll to go one
way or the other. And you did it, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, especially when you have one of the most successful
New York literary agencies saying I don't know, Karen, you
were going to be a star.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
You know, he really didn't, do we know him still? Yeah,
he sent him the number one selling books that you've done.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, I think, you know. And he had a very
narrow lane for me. He wanted me to fit into that,
just like you said, and I was finding myself like
between you know, I had young kids, Like when I
walked away from that, they were four and one. So
we were, you know, like singing little songs to Jesus
and we were going to the park and then I'd
go back to my laptop during naptime and be like
(04:23):
he took out his knife and he walked on it.
I was like it wasn't for me so anyway, And
you know it's funny because six books they really didn't sell. Well.
He was right for six books.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Were did you have an agent at that time?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I got a new agent, okay, and he was good
with what I would call inspirational fiction. Okay. And I
really didn't know that Christian fiction was a thing because
I was like, I want to write like number one
your time's best selling fiction. I didn't want to write
anything that was watered down. And I came to find
out that actually, rather than being watered down, that the
kind of fiction I write is more developed. It's got
(04:56):
the physical, intellectual, and the emotional, but it's got the spiritual.
And whether you're running toward God or away from him,
I mean, it's still a part of your story. There's
a deeper piece to your soul, whoever, wherever you're at today,
Like that's the truth. And so I get to write
about the vast, contrasting elements of the spiritual and that's
(05:16):
been just bills my soul.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And you have such an emotional investment in your characters.
One of the things I got the pleasure of, well,
actually I got a very impromptu reading of a book
by Mss Karen at my kids school. I didn't realize
that her grand babies go to where my kids go.
And so when Jana got the movie, I was like,
I know this name. This is crazy. And I was
actually able to meet your husband on set. That was
(05:39):
the first set I'd ever been to. Oh really, yeah,
I've never been to one of Jana's movies before. And
I looked at her and I was like, is it
always like this?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like this is?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It felt sacred.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And anointed and slow and intentional, and I'm thinking, man,
if this is like what you know the movie businesses,
I've been missing out. You know.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I should have tried to do this early. Everybody just
start with no. I slowly learned. But when I was
talking to.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Your husband's Karen effect, yeah, I don't. That is something
I learned that this is the way, you know, for
you saying true to yourself and for the ripple effect
of what that is, that's how it comes to be
on set. But he did mention that you would sometimes
and if you're embarrassed by this, we can certainly cut it.
But he said you would sometimes come out of your
(06:26):
out of your office and you'd be crying and he'd go,
are you okay, and you'd be like, no, you know,
like Annabel died or something, somebody that you spent all
this time invested in as a character and you had to,
you know, a character had to die, and how deeply
it hurts your heart.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It does, and it's still that. It's like, even when
I was writing The Christmas Ring, I found myself just crying.
You know, it's a sign that if it doesn't move me,
it's not going to move you. And to me, you know,
we want to ride the ride of the tens and
the ones, like, we don't want to be hanging out
in the fives. Like and she went to the mark
get she got home muge, I let her know. I mean,
it's like, let's make people feel something when they're reading.
(07:06):
And that's kind of the goal. It's always been the
goal for these books. So yeah, I was like, that's
definitely true. And I'll walk out in the room and
I'll be crying and I'll say, you know, what happened
And I'll say, oh, you know, like you know, Annabel
died and I'm just crying and he's you know, then
the first time that happened, he was hilarious. He was
like kind of like how that his hands like raised himself.
(07:27):
Who is Annabelle? Do we know her from church or
from school? That's what he said, and I said, no, none,
He's one of my characters. And he just like rolled
his eyes all the way to the ceiling. He's like,
how am I supposed to feel sorry for you? I mean,
you killed her, you created her, and you could just
backspace de leeve bring her back.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
We are just one highlight away from her just being
living again.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
What does she want to do? She could go to
the store, she get on, let her gurgeres.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That's right. So but I told her, I mean it
felt so like I said, I could never I'm watching
it play out in my head.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Such a talent.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I think that you don't even realize how much of
a crazy unique talent that is.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Thanks it really is. I mean, God has just given me.
Plus I can do it fast because I raised six kids.
And if they look back, they don't think, oh, your mom,
she was always locked in a room writing, But they actually,
you know, know that I made time for them and
I could write a book in average two weeks and.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Two weeks this is you have no idea. This is
an annointment on your life. For you to be able
to do that.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It is crazy, my suggess out of you. It just
flows out of me. Like somebody cud cuddle up with
like a book and they just like love it. They
get a blanket. I cuddle up with my laptop and
see a book come to life, and I kind of
get to be the very first reader to that end.
I get to really just I'm seeing it play out
(08:54):
like a movie. And this is why I had to
go into film, because I could. I could see it
the way no one else could see it. And my
head and as I'm writing, I mean, I'm laughing, you know,
I'm laughing when it's funny. I'm like laughing hard, and
I'm crying when it's sad. And when the kids were little,
I would be like, if you see mommy crying, I'm
completely fine, just working my book. That was, you know,
(09:17):
was and is still you know, the most like rewarding
thing to not to really be able to step away
and say that wasn't me, that just wasn't me. I mean,
I have to give God all the credit because I could.
I couldn't will it.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
The Baxters became your big Karen Kingsbury moment, right. Yes,
So obviously that's a story that you know, you hold
very close to you because that is what started, you know,
everything with you know, your your name and your books
following and then shows. But is there is that your
(09:52):
favorite or is there another book that has Like some
of my favorite album cuts are the ones that weren't
radio hits.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That's so chas with me. I think I've written I
have like a hundred books published or something, but I
have like sixty something novels. And you know, at the
time I'm writing them, it's like the child. It's on
the stage or on the field up to bat You're
cheering the loudest for that one, and that one is
so special to you. But as I look back, I
mean One Tuesday Morning, which was about two guys that
(10:19):
looked a lot alike, a firefighter and a businessman who
were both in one of the twin Towers on nine
to eleven. I love that book, you know, That's the
one I mean. I usually it ends up being standalones.
I love Ashley Baxter, I love I love the Baxters
like they're like family for sure to me. And when
I go to Bloomington, Indiana. I can see them, Like
I walk up like thinking it's going to be Ashley
(10:40):
and she turns around. It's not like that's how real
it is. But I wrote twenty some books on that family,
and it's almost like they were family. But these other
stories are so like I got to go to belize,
you know, in a distant shore, and I got to
imagine what it would be like to set twelve girls
free from trafficking. Like that's amazing journey to take. And
(11:01):
all the research as a former reporter that was really
special too, to be able to make sure it's accurate,
you know, find somebody who works in that industry and
have them read it, make sure I'm not using the
wrong verbiage or the wrong you know, activities that play
out around that rescue. So I love that. I mean
there's a handful of them for sure, one Tuesday morning,
because it's really about this girl who just does not
(11:22):
believe in God. She does not believe because too many
hard things have happened, and in her mind, her husband's
a firefighter and she feels like, as long as there
are firefighter funerals, how could there be a god?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
We spoke briefly about your journey to coming to Jesus.
Can you just share some of that here when that
started for you and how old you were, and then
you intertwining that into your to your work.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, it was really I wasn't on a journey to
find Jesus. I was actually just on a journey to
be a successful writer. That was really my goal. I
met Donald at the health club. We were working out
and he we met eyes a few times, like our
eyes with me, and then he just came up to
me and just struck up a conversation and we ended
up knowing some people in common, but we ended up
(12:23):
talking like three hours a day. We were both kind
of done our workout and closed the place down, sat
outside talking And you know, back then, you couldn't just
slide into someone's DMS, you know, I mean back then
you had to be brave enough. The guy really needed
to be brave enough to ask for your number and
that I want to take you out, like on a date.
So he did that, and he said, but I wondered
if it would be okay could I bring my Bible
(12:45):
on the date. And to this day, like we just
both laughed, like how did you have the even the
nerve in la like I had never opened a Bible
or you know, we were we went we had a
denominational faith, but it was much more of a tradition
than anything. We went to church, but only in a case.
And so you know, he had the courage basically, you know,
to say and I just thought it was the weirdest
(13:06):
thing I had ever heard, like who And I mean
it took me a few seconds because he was super handsome,
and I thought, I guess there could be worse things
he would want to bring to a date. I don't
know sure. I thought, oh, okay, you bring the Bible
if you want to. I was like this, what is this?
I didn't he was showing up on a bike. I
I shouldn't know what this meant. So it comes to
(13:27):
pick me up and he wants to read Philippians four,
chapter four, and it's all about peace. It's beautiful. But
i'd never heard of a Philippian, no appiens. I didn't
know what this was. No idea.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Tell me what your thought is when he's reading this
to you? What is how quick can we get out
of this to our date?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's where my thought was. So we you know we
I mean literally, I think he took a pause and
I'm not listening to anything he's saying. He's like reading it.
But the thing is, he was on a quest. He
wasn't in he didn't go to church, He wouldn't have
considered himself like having a relationship with Jesus. He was
like coming from a family that had a lot of
brokenness and a lot of divorce, a lot of hurt,
a lot of alcoholism, and he just knew there had
(14:10):
to be something more, and so he was he bought
a Bible on his own and he's just reading the
New Testament, trying to figure it out. So he was
he wanted to read it because he's fascinated by it
and finding peace in it, not because he was trying
to change me, which I think was a key. It
wasn't like he was right away, oh you're a project,
not at all. So this began. So it began this
(14:31):
sort of like as soon as you took a breath,
I was like, there we get check the box. Yeah,
So we ended up taking the date and then for
three months it was like that, like he was just
will not believe what I read in Romans and I'm like,
I really won't. I think I will, I do te,
please make it quick. And it got to be just
(14:54):
and it's like, oh, I was just it was just
too much. So three months around that time and I
really was okay to be down with it. I wasn't
going to change for him and he didn't want me
to change for him. It was literally he was excited.
I'd be like, if your most excited thing the other
person doesn't like, that's not going to go anywhere. You know,
it's not going to be a thing. So anyway, that day,
(15:15):
I and in front of a sunny day in southern
California tennis courts. We just played tennis and he has
something he has to show me, Thessalonian. So I'm like, okay,
I was just over it. So I took the Bible
from his hands. I looked at the verse that he
was trying to show me. I know, poor Donald.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I love him so much, head Donald dat ever, I
just adore him. You guys don't even realize how hard
he worked in crafty and like just the smile and
the energy he showed up every single day, sorry.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Day And he said to say, Hi, I love Donald.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I mean he's telling me these stories over snack mix.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Well, he's like, did you have did you get a
cold water? I'm like, I feel so well cared for.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
He is such a servant, like that is his love
language so much, it's mind blowing. He's at the far
extreme of this, just how can I serve? How can
I help? How can I make a difference? So, you know,
with that sweet personality that he has, and he's so strong,
and he was right on the verge of being a
former NFL player, he was one cut away from making
it on the Falcons team when I met him. Anyway,
(16:14):
so he's shown me this verse, all excited and you know,
full of joy. And I took his Bible and kind
of looked at the verse and I threw his Bible
down on the ground. Did you know this?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
No?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I caring naughty girl so bad?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I mean, this just shows you. I was like, so
I threw it on the ground, and I.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Wasn't like, why did you throw it? Was it?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like? I was just so over it?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
But did you just and at that point, you're just
did you not believe the word? Or was it any
more of a don't shove this on me? Or what
was the actual anger of why you put it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think he was in the actual words themselves. It
wasn't him. I had already by that point I would
have given myself some labels. I would have said, you know,
I was Southern California girl, driving a red Folkswagon convertible,
writing stories for the La Times, you know, hanging out
with pro players, like I had my own sort of
(17:05):
definition of what was good and for me, I would
often say, well, I believe and I've learned since then,
if you start your sentence with I believe, it's probably wrong,
like it's probably if it's fine. If I say I
believe fall is the most beautiful season. But if I say, well,
I believe we should be able to do this for
God in God's world as to it's right or what's
true or what I've learned, that that's a good sign
(17:27):
that you're still learning. There's still a lot to go.
So I believed in a lot of things that when
this particular verse on that day, it felt like it
was just almost right to my heart, like it was
very convicting of the way I thought it was good
to live versus the way God was calling me to live.
And I didn't like that. I was like, everything I
(17:48):
knew and I believed in God, but I was like,
it's nice to put make your own God. It's kind
of nice to have him fit into your own box
of what is okay.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Way more convenient.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's way more convenient. And so this was making me
feel like I was wrong, to be wrong, and that
was I think the instant. I don't have a temper
like it was the weirdest moment. So the Bible lands
on the ground, and as it would, as God would
have it, it broke in half. The whole binding. What yes,
the Bible, and this is his special Bible that's like
(18:16):
highlighted underlined like it was. He has little little notes
in this. It was very precious and broke right the
whole binding split right in half. And I was horrified,
obviously and myself. He picked up the pieces and he
wasn't going to fight, just gave me kind of a
sad look and got in his car and left were
we had met the tennis courts that day, so I
would say with my car and I thought, first I thought,
(18:37):
the earth is going to open and I will be
the first person straight to hell. So that's not going
to work. You know that you can't break the Bible
to try to prove your beliefs are better than the
Bible somehow, you know, just wasn't going to happen. So
then I thought, okay, I'm My next thought was I'm
going to prove him wrong, like I just don't know
the Bible. And if I only knew the Bible, then
(18:57):
I would be able to show him. Well, but what
about this verse? About this? I didn't know anything about it.
So I decided to go to this little Bible bookstore
I had passed by all my life in the San
Fernando Valley, you know, as a valley girl there in
LA and I'd never been inside. I had always thought
that this particular store was very strange, like what's a
Bible bookstore? I didn't really know a value book and Bible.
(19:19):
And I went there, went in, found a person working
at the front store, and I said, I need a Bible.
It needs to be in English, I need to understand it,
and I need some way to look up words. So
that's a concordance, and I didn't know that at a time.
And there's no apps. So I got these two heavy books,
marked them out to the car, and I don't get
out of the parking lot, like I'm just going to
look a few things up to start with, and they're
(19:40):
not there. What I believed, you know, under my well,
I believe, I believe just because I felt like it
was right, just wasn't there. And I heard the most gentle,
loving voice from the Lord. I just it was the
first time I'd ever heard like. It wasn't audible, it
was in my heart, but I heard the Lord say, well, Karen,
you know I love you, and you have a choice.
(20:03):
You can fall away with your man made beliefs, or
you can grab onto my word and never let go.
How was that moment? It was just like and I
knew and I just grabbed. I'm like, I'm not falling.
And I also noticed as I was reading the words
that day and the Bible, they spoke to me. It
wasn't someone trying to show me something. It was just
me reading. I'm like, this isn't hard to read it
all this is you know, It's like it's like a
(20:24):
letter right to me. And how could it have been
written thousands of years ago and still apply so much
to who we are today as people? So I was
just like it was like a scales off the eyes
kind of moment. It was a dramatic change and shift,
and he forgave me.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And did you rebind his bible with yours?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I would have kept it. I really don't even know
what happened to those, you know, those two pieces. Maybe
we do have a minute box somewhere, but I bought
him a bible.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Have you written this story? I haven't written it into
anything just because i'd say times, But I think this
story is so true to you. And I'm not saying
you were like this lost girl, but if you, if
you you were lost in your ways right, this is
a beautiful coming to life story. I'm surprised you haven't
written the story of you.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
There's a little bit of that in that first novel,
because I thought, well, I can't do myself, so I'll
use my own a little bit of it. But there
wasn't enough for me to say it.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Was God is moving, are moving, there's falling into a.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I think you should write it and call it Unbound,
and I think it should be about your deep love
for the sweet man who just hosts and loves you.
My favorite thing about meeting him with you is I
feel like he has to die though.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
In the end. Oh why, I'm sorry. There has to
be some like it's almost like a walk to remember vibe,
you know what I mean. But like this is why
finished books. Fun fact, But I do love.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
What I admired about you both was this deep admiration
that you have for each other. That was, you know,
in marriage. We talked a lot about marriage here and
just how deeply proud he is of you and the
way he lights up when he talks about you, and
you know, he was connecting with me, he was connecting
(22:19):
pieces of my life with your life, and it just
was like, well, you know, Karen lived there and Karen
did that too. It just he beams when he talks
about you. So I'm sure glad he loves this Bible
breaker because you're special amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
If he ever forgave me.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Is like, well if he didn't, then what Bible is
he reading?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's true? That's so true.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I mean that was the most in action.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, he completely ends and feet Yeah exactly. You know,
he he'll tell me because I do public speaking or whatnot,
you know, and you know, might be in front of
my favorite would be like Liberty University. There's thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen thousand students and that's a big stage to speak on.
And he's like he has to find a way to
come and he'll say, I'll say, my favorite thing to do,
(23:02):
Karen is watch you on stage. Oh it's the sweetest thing.
And then likewise for him, he's a basketball coach and
he just got he had taken a few years off,
but he just got a job at Franklin Christians. Will
be there doing coaching and again and I am his scorekeeper.
So I always sit there and just be coach Russell's wife,
you know, which you know, that's just a good dream.
(23:24):
And so yeah, that's my married name.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Is your dream as well? Yeah, Trussell's wife. How do
you how do you weave in your Christianity? Because I
watched you do it when you wrote the script with
with Tyler. But it's interesting though too during this and
you know a little fun fact, there was some taken
out too, because you don't want to shove it down
(23:49):
people's throat, but you want it still a piece of
the story. So kind of walk us through how you
balance that act and then why some of the things
because there was a you know, some moments where we
were gonna read some scripture in the movie and then
or there's just certain pieces, really, well, let's take this out.
This feels a little bit too much. What called you
to do that? And then how do you weave it through?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Like to me, I see the story as one organic story,
and I think if I step out anytime I step up,
if I were to be tempted even to step away
from that and try to teach somebody something with the
movie or the book, that's wrong. That's not going to work.
People are very aware of what is organically realized. It's
okay if I'm watching your story play out. But the
(24:31):
minute your story starts to feel like, actually, actually I'm
teaching you something, that's when you've gone too far, and
it's you know, this is not a preachy kind of
and not my books aren't that way, and certainly The
Christmas Ring is not that way. But it's beautiful to
watch someone else who has a faith struggle and then
(24:53):
find hope and redemption or even if they lose everything
still to be able to find the ability to breathe
and to walk forward word. And if I'm watching that,
then what happens is the message of that comes in
through the back door of the heart. And like I
always would say that when Jesus wanted to tell you
something straight he would he'd say, you know, I am
the way of the truth. Them a life, and there
is no one that comes to the Father except through me,
(25:14):
just straightforward. When he wanted to make a point, he
might turn over a table, but when he wanted to
touch your heart, he told a story. So it shouldn't
feel you should never feel like a character in that,
like like, oh, they're talking to me, they're they're they're
speaking to me. The overall feeling will land on someone
like that, and that is not. The goal is to
tell you a truthful even though it's fiction, a truthful
(25:38):
story of somebody else going through a problem and finding
hope in their genuine faith. But genuine faith does not
mean that every time I pop in the room, I'm
reading scripture, or every time I lost your Donald, unless
you're Donald and he.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Serving love.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
That's right, that's so funny, that's exactly I think he
has actually made some ten jokes about it. The next
time we played Tennessee, Brookes ankle, so that was just
like a he was like, now you need to find
some scripture for me. But but yeah, you know, it's
not authentic to other people if you if it's too much. Sure,
you know, anything faith related is going to be like
(26:17):
cayenne pepper and a recipe, like a very tiny pinch.
It feels people will completely You'll draw them in and
they'll say either wow, I want that. I love how
that helped that person, or they'll say that's me. I'm
like that too, and they'll they'll own the whole movie,
will feel like it's in their worldview or the world
that they want. But if you are trying to force things,
(26:39):
it's just the whole thing. You lose the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well, let's talk about the Christmas Ring because this was
flipped and how things normally happen. Usually you have the
book and then the movie or the TV show happens.
But tell us how Christmas Ring. And I wasn't even
supposed to play the leading.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
They're faking freaking news, but they got me so well.
And this is you know, I prayed on the way here.
I really did about like how do I talk about this?
And because I want to be sure like the other
kinds of movies that are Christmas movies. I just want
to go on record there there. They're a lot of fun,
and they're you know, they have their own value within.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
They've all done them and we all love them.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
There.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I mean, it's like you're looking forward to it every
year to see, you know, what's what these different platforms
are going to come out with. And they're great and
they're wonderful fun. But I wanted to do a movie
that was an elevated experience, like something you would want
to watch again and again and again. And the initially
I had we were I was partnering with a platform,
I'll just say, and they have certain actors that are
(27:39):
in there on by contracts, in their staple of talent,
and so this particular you know actress I absolutely love
and I'm friends it's great. Yeah, she's great, She's fantastic.
But once things didn't work out at the upper level
in terms of it being initially it was going to
be an easy quick you know, we would just write
(28:01):
the script and maybe Tyler would direct it, but it
would be not any of my time and not any
of my resources. But they really couldn't pull it together
financially in a way to be able to make it
look like it should, and so we in a very
friendly way, and we're still very friendly. We just you know,
eventually someday it may come to their platform years from now,
but it won't be there to start. And I wanted
(28:22):
to make myself, so we said we make use with
our own resources and we would film it here. And
so then I didn't get to have her, even if
I wanted her. I mean, that was just not I
couldn't have her. So now it was like, well, this
is the whole clean slate. So my first you were
my first choice of them. I just don't have to say.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
You don't have to say. Usually I'm like the second
or third. No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You actually weren't. No. I mean, I don't know how
that could be, because you're so talented, Jana, so talented.
I mean, it's amazing, like she it's like the river
runs so deep, and I know that's true in your
life and you can't fake that. I really don't think
no matter of talent of an actor, if they don't
have the deep well within them, they can't bring into
the screen. And you're just I mean, I don't know
(29:07):
the story of the Christmas Ring brought that we have
a military widow as the lead character. So there's no
way that can be somebody who doesn't at least show
that they've been there a little bit in their heart.
So yeah, you were just I mean, we were thrilled
we got you were our first get knew that was
number one. We had an actor and that when it
was a public announcement, we actually had Christopher Polah who
(29:29):
was the He's a Hallmark actor who was going to
be the lead. But that was with the other actress
that was with the other or other lead that we
did we lost, and so it was just kind of
one of those things where I thought, I'm not sure
that's going to work age wise, like pairing wise. I
wasn't sure how that would be. But I we'd kind
of already offered him, So what do you do? But
(29:49):
literally two days after we started pre production, he quit
and he called us and he said, so has the
agent called, I'm so sorry, like his you know, homework
doesn't want him to do it unerstandably because he had
by then he gathered up another Christmas movie with them,
So how do you and you know, his thought was,
I'll just talk about both and their thought was like,
uh no, that's not going to happen. So he had
(30:12):
to quit. So I totally understand it's his life, you know,
as bread and butter, but he's going to be working
for them, and so now I have a clean slate
on the guys. And I'm like, who would really be
good with you?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And she's texting me and I'm like, Karen, we are
filming in a week.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I was like, what is happening?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
This is crazy and the ship is already Oh I know,
I'm sure you were like. Plus, you know, I'm a
new filmmaker, like I really am, and I mean, I'll
be the first to admit, like I'm always trying to
get better with them, but it starts second movie, so
you had to Obviously thankfully you love the script, but
like you're putting your trust, you're putting your reputation, you know,
(30:50):
into that we're going to make you look beautiful, that
we're going to bring out the best in you, or
that we're even going to show up, you know when
we say here's day one. So I'm sure that was
my least favorite call to make. Tyler was like, you're
gonna call it ya. Let her know that we don't
have a male lead, I said, I I have deal.
We were I think in the Bahamas on some vacation
(31:11):
during that week.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
But I loved who you. I loved your vision. I
already knew the vision and it was I yes, so
sad to see Christopher go, but at the same time,
I'm like, Okay, fine, clear slate, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And I was so happy with who you said you
were going to go out to, and so yeah, I
felt very blessed.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah. So Benjamin, I mean I had never obviously never
worked with him. He's mostly known for being on Virgin River,
but he has as so he's so affable. On top
being very handsome, he's very likable. Yeah, and I didn't
see the seasons where he was like people that he
was like a bad boy or something.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I guess I never watched Virgin River, so nothing going
in at all. I just knew he was like, yeah,
this bad boy from Virgin River. And then I met him,
and I mean I just I loved him. I don't know.
So it's like we had this great chemist and he
was incredible, like it was amazing his family, and then
on screen he made me better, Like he's just he
(32:10):
elevated the material and therefore I had to also meet
him there.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, but you did the same for him. I mean,
there's no question that your depth brought out like he is.
That I think that part of the reason it worked
so well and people, I think, I really believe this.
At ten years from now, twenty years from now, people
are going to try to figure out what the formula
was to find chemistry like you and Ben have on screen.
It's I mean it's breathtaking chemistry. But it's not just
like you know, sexual tension chemistry at all.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
No, it wasn't like that at all. There was just like, yeah,
we had That's where I'm like, there's a soulful thing
that it was like we knew each other in a
past life or something or because it was just yeah,
not it's not to say see your feeling yeah, like,
but yeah, it was. That was the I've never felt
that with a co star before, having that just like
that friendship connection chemistry with someone.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, to me, it was I think partly because you
both are deep. Yeah, just some people are and some aren't.
And some people can just step onto the set and
it's a job and they turn on the emotion that's
required and they do a great job and that's fine,
then they can just check out, go home. But you
run very, very deep, and it's partly your life experience,
partly you have a poetic heart. I mean you just
have a beautiful soul, beautiful heart. It's so true. And
(33:19):
I felt I walked away feeling like a like a
family friend that get close to you because of that
depth and you allow people in, which is also a
huge gift that you have that you allow the So
when people watch this movie, they're going to see into
your soul, like into your heart, and that's a lot
of actors also will put that well up and be
someone else. But you bring enough of Jianna Kramer to
(33:41):
that role and to this role in particular, and Ben
Ben nurtured that. And that was the thing is that
he's deep. I mean he's also a poet and named
his kids after you know, literature, like that's he's you
know when you're wanting your kids name Hemingway. I mean
like there's some depth there and he loves poetry. So
I thought, oh, my goods, who knew this about this guy?
You never know you're hiring someone to be in a movie,
(34:03):
it's like, not until you really get on set that
you're like, hope they get along, hope they enjoying this
experience because they need to pretend like they're madly and
love in a beautiful, hard way. And that's what I
think too. Is different here is that you know the
kiss at the beautiful kisses at the end that time
was so beautiful, but you know it was more than
that beautifully deep loved it. It was just I'm gonna
(34:26):
just cannot wait for people to see it.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
So you wrote the script and then you wrote the book. Well,
I needed this, I need this to be a book.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
That's it because and it won't matter which way people
like you could definitely watch the movie first and then
get the book or get the beauty. It doesn't matter
because they were so similar. But what you can do
in a book that you can't do in a film
is give more detail. So there's a really beautif offul
scene toward the end of the movie, and I don't
want to give away too much of it, but it's
a decision that Vanessa Mayfield has to make about let
(35:08):
this is something aligne that you know your character says,
and that you say so beautifully is the kind of
the key is to know when to hold onto the
past and when to let it go. And obviously it
will always shape us and be a part of us,
but you sometimes cannot move forward until you are willing
to let that piece go somewhat and you have to
reach this place where you have to let something go.
(35:30):
And the beauty of that moment, the beauty of that
the depth of what you're experiencing. You gave us five
thousand words in that moment, and that's, I mean, way
more than I could have ever asked. But I love
that I can take the book and let people read
those five thousand words, let them actually relive what it
was like when you got the knock on the door,
(35:51):
what it was like to marry him in the first place,
what it was like to raise you know, Sadie with him.
Like that same piece, that same moment in the book
gives us way more detail that we just cannot get
in a movie.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So when the book is available now and the movie
comes out November sixth in theaters, but you can actually
buy the book now, so if you want to read it,
if you're a read before the movie, are you a
read before the movie kind of goal.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Typically this time, I'm going opposite because you're my first opposite.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, and because I think people are they going to
be obsessed with this movie. They're going to want to
see it again and again. We just showed it to
five hundred women on this last weekend. They got a
preview of it more than a three minute standing ovation
at the end. This incredible. And then they would come
up to me and they'd say, you have no idea
how many times I'm going to see this in the theater,
Like I'm going to take my husband and I'm going
to take my girlfriends. I'm more. It's just they loved
(36:38):
it so much. So if they love it that much
and they want more, they're going to get the book.
That's where they're going to get more.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
My first time going to a premiere. Are you able
to come? Because I know you have a baseball game?
They moved our last baseball game later. I get it.
I had to miss your thing because my kid had
a softball game, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
But I'm also the kids were able to be extras
in your film, and that has just shaped their brains.
So between the two of you, you have gifted my kids.
This really like a level a lid off kind of
mentality that is really I mean, I can't imagine who
I could have been if I got that at seven
and nine years old. And so they you know, you know,
(37:18):
it's the big premiere night, and I'm like, I know,
but you're also versus the.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Trash pandas that you know, field four and so.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
But they've moved the last baseball game of the season too,
two days later, because God always makes a.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Way for us.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
I said it even on the show. I was like,
got them move the pieces. Nothing's ever the same, you know,
and so we get to come and they get to
be It's fun. They've I've got a lot of dms
saying like did I just buy love in this movie?
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I'm like, you did? This is awesome. What is your
favorite part about Because you were on set every single day.
I mean you were walking around, you know, making sure
everyone is fed and just happy and good hydrated, and
then you're watching the scenes and you're you know, because
you're obviously a producer as well on it. So what
did you experience on that you didn't think that you
(38:02):
were going to experience? Like, what is something that was
just like I didn't know I would feel this or.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, you know sometimes when you're watching a movie. First
of all, when you're watching a movie, you're it's edited,
it's colored, it has the score, it has all the
things that needs to draw your emotion. And we have
all that in the Christmas Ring. I think what I
wasn't expecting this is this movie has a fair share
of humor too. It has some you know, it's fun.
It's a scenes with Kelsey and the guy. Yeah, hilarious.
(38:28):
There's so fun. And you know, our little grhand boys.
I didn't think kids would end up like in this movie.
It's a date night. It's a matter. But the grandkids
are nine, seven and five loved it, like they were like,
Gary was so funny. He was so funny. You had
the funny hats. We just enjoyed it. So but what
you don't expect and this is again only my second
movie where I'm on set every minute and where I
(38:48):
get to have a you know, I'm the one saying
yes that art piece, yes, that costume, No, not that
art piece. You know, so this is the second time
for that, and she.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Just like cover your boobs up more grammer that yes,
not that shirt the Holy Imagination, you know what I mean,
Less Garden or Karen Gingsburg Fair. I was like, it's.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
But there are I want there to be certain like
fingerprints of my movie that people know, Hey, if the
kids walk into the room, there's never going to be
a moment. But you just know you're But I love
that you got that though. I know that you were
like there's a little bit of a pattern with these outfits,
but they're not like.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Boring, grageous. I love you and I get it.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, but I wasn't expecting the emotions from me because
like I wrote the movie. We wrote Tyler and I
wrote the script and then I said, I can't do this.
I got it rife got out of book. I can't
just have the movie, so quickly wrote a book. God.
I mean, so I was working two sides of things.
I was going fast. And by the time we got
to being on set and watching your scenes, like you're
seeing when you're talking about your husband who passed away
(40:00):
working as an army medic overseas an ied and you're
telling that story. I mean, I'm in theory. I should
be in a left brain place going is that air conditioning?
Going to be able to be you know, taken out
are we But I literally was so drawn into the
scene and that happened several times that I'm crying, like
I'm back there just wiping tears like that happened in
(40:23):
just more than I ever expected. So I think it
was it was a little bit of of God like
letting me know this is going to be amazing, Like
and I kept when I'd pray about it, because we
prayed all the time, like go or make away, help
us because it's all been so quick and fifteen days
film a movie that will be timeless, is way too short.
But you know, we had the Jenny, You're so gracious,
(40:46):
like it's going to be you know, it feels like
one hundred and nine, and you're like, that's fine, bring me,
let me wear the coat. You're totally good.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
But Donald had a sweet cooling car outside, so he
was just made sure we were nice and snuggled up.
But I think there was something else too that we
spoke about. There was a moment in this in the
movie with Kelsey where there was that father son, yes,
a parent relationship, and obviously having Kelsey was a huge gift.
I mean, he's incredible. He was amazing. But there's also
(41:13):
forgiveness in there too, and I think it's so beautiful
because we've talked about parents and the journeys and to hear,
you know you what Kelsey says in there. I even
when I watched it back with you in your screening room,
I felt it and was like, man, what a beautiful
thing that this parent has said to his son.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And I think that was probably the moment that I
expected it to be emotional the times when you made
me emotional and Ben your interactions, but with Kelsey, I
never realized. The people who are going to be touched,
they have a strange relationships with their adult kids, and
it's who knows whose fault it is. It's going to
be different for each situation. People are so hesitant to
(41:55):
just say they're sorry. And in this scene, because Kelsey
Grammar's care has been very hard headed for a good reason.
You know, he's found this treasure. He's an antiques dealer
and for the first time in his you know, decades
long career, he has found the diamond and the rough.
He has found a ring that even Vanessa Mayfield thinks
his costume, but it isn't it's actually worth twenty five
(42:17):
thousand dollars, and finally he's going to get to take
this trip to Italy that he's always wanted to take,
that his wife always wanted, and now she's passed away.
So there's an emotional reason why he doesn't want this
to be your ring of Vanessa's ring. But he has
a very strong, a very strong sort of negative attitude
for his son, saying like that's enough. He really yells
(42:39):
at him and it becomes like a really In fact,
some of the people who's like in the industry, who
are more on the platform side of Christmas movies said
he's too intense in that scene, but he's not, because
resolution and reconciliation is only going to be beautiful if
the conflict was strong and it was between them. So
then have this moment in the hall at this antique
(43:01):
shop where they work, and they had this beautiful moment
where he the Kelsey Gramma's character says I'm wrong and
I'm sorry, and the moment was electric and all of
us like, we need to get a box of tissues
in video village because it was like, I think we
were all thinking of families and friends, sisters, whatever, that
we know that have strange relationships with their kids, and
(43:22):
it could look this simple. I was wrong, I'm sorry,
and then just have the hug and come back back
to the beginning where you began. And I thought people
are going to be weeping in the theaters going I'm
making you know, even if it's not your fault, you know,
just reach out and just say for anything I've done,
I'm sorry. And it's just a obviously God wants us reconcile.
(43:44):
They doesn't want the separations, and they're saying no. And
you've talked about this like the whole like no contact
thing is smart when you're in an abusive relationship, and
it's also a way too frequently used just as a
way of saying you annoy me. I'm going no contact
adult kid. So you know, it's it's hopeful. And I
didn't see this. I didn't realize how impactful the father
(44:07):
son and even the mother daughter relationship with you and
Sadie was going to be to the story.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, I mean, I'm so excited for everyone to see
this movie. I really am. I have not I have
like counting down the days.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
I think also because there hasn't been like a Notebook
feeling Christmas movie for me, ever, there's never been that.
You know, we have of course, we have the iconic holidays, yes,
and for Christmases yeah, but we haven't had the depth,
I think and something in my opinion that this presents
(44:43):
itself to be. And I haven't seen the movie in full,
but I have got to witness two people that I
really admire and written by someone I also admire, and
Ben's family was exceptional and to watch Jana do what
Jana does was crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah. I mean, Janna, you have the I'm candy and
I know you've been you know, so you've been an
actor for forever. I mean you're so talented and so gifted,
and it's skilled, but it isn't an act when you
had the looks you give, like when you're watching you know,
Ben read the story to the kids and he's actually,
this is what we talked about, like, don't let's have
him ad lib instead of and the last bit can
(45:19):
be scripture, but the beginning, you know what he's story
talking about. So he crushed it. Yeah, but your look
to him because we I mean, the way that's worked
into that piece, I mean, that's all your wants right,
just all we want is to be able to know
we can look at a guy with that kind of
admiration and respect and longing of you know that that
connection is other worldly. I mean it's deep. So yeah,
(45:43):
I mean when I look at my moments that really
bring tears to my us and really make me know
this is going to be such a huge hit movie.
I mean, you're right there, like it's these looks, these
you and Sadie in the kitchen when you're talking about
when you know, Ella comes in and she's saying, I
don't really want to be in the family practice, you know,
practicing law, and then you've already had this conversation with
(46:05):
Sadie about how when kids get to be that age,
their future has to be they have to lead the way,
and they've had all of these years to be shaped.
And even though you would expect that you would be
a teacher, your character she's going to want to be
a photographer. And when Ellis says that in the kitchen,
and then you and Sadie exchange a look. But it's
your look. It's so deep, it's ocean deep, and it's
(46:27):
just gold. So that's thanks. People are going to be thrilled.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Well, I'm excited hopefully to be in a next one
with you.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yes, I want that.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Everyone go watch The Christmas Ring in theaters November six. Also,
the Christmas Ring Book is available now and yeah, we'll
see you November six. We hope you love it. Thanks Karen,
thanks so much
Host
Jana Kramer
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