June 5, 2024 • 26 mins
Jana is obsessed with the new Vanderpump Rules spinoff “The Valley”, so she has to talk to one of the women in the middle of all the drama… Michelle Saniei Lally!
Michelle opens up to Jana about the end of her marriage to Jesse, and shares how she knew it was time to leave.
Plus, we hear ALL about her new relationship and how things are going with co-parenting with Jesse!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.
All Right, so this week's wind Down podcast, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
On location in New York.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I have roped Alan.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Into the beginning of this because all right, so I
I've watched episodes here and there of you know, Housewives,
and but I haven't really watched from beginning to end.
And then I heard about The Valley and I was like,
all right, I'm gonna watch it. I don't know, I
(00:36):
have this thing with the Valley, like we're going to
we're going to, uh, Los Angeles in a couple of weeks,
And for some reason, I always gravit towards the Valley
whenever I book for you know, book a place or anything.
And so I was watching it at home, and you know,
you make like your little comments.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Why A you're watching reality TV?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, because it's not something I some thing you've ever
really seen me, no watch, But it was like a
book I couldn't put down.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah. I watched you getting gradually get more and more invested.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And then you asked me what made me want to watch?
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, Well, when people come on the show, you do,
you do your research, but this one you were like okay.
Normally you watched like an hour or two, but this one,
it was like episode after the episode, after the episode, I.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Know, I got hooked on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And then when we were on the plane going to
New York because I was here for a movie for
press from my movie gaslet I go, Alan, just put
a little erin and just listen. And did you know
that he watched like three episodes with me and you
got hooked.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
That's because the WiFi wasn't walking on the flight.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, no, no, no, no no, no, you could have done anything.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
No, I got hooked.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh I got the wow.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
No, I think I think it hooked. But I became
an invested in people's personalities.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Okay, reactions to stuff, okay, And therefore it became interesting
me and.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So much so that he was like, hey, babe, did
they send you the finale screener? We're just it was
so funny to me because we're at dinner and I
knew that the finale was coming out. We were going
to be able to get a screener because we're interviewing
Michelle today from the Valley, and he asked if we
got the screener, So I immediately text you know, our
(02:27):
the Little wind Down podcast crew, and like Alan just
asked for the screener and Babe, I'm sorry, but I
did watch it.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Oh did you?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so I got to watch it this morning.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
They sent it to me.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, you know, we got to watch it, you know,
obviously before it aired. Now people can watch it when
this airs. But so the finale was after they stopped
taping Michelle, who we have on today, she asked for
a divorce, like after the camera.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Stopped rolling immediately after, I think, so yeah, on.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Set, Well, so what from what I saw is they
didn't film that, but they did film the conversation of like,
you know, her picking up Isabella and them talking about
how they're splitting their business, and the two on two
and the custody. So yeah, but she she did it
when the camera stopped, and I think that's where he
(03:24):
felt a little blindsided. And then Jax and Brittany, Brittany
left the women.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
The woman see, he remembers.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, So, from as a guy's perspective, actually, would you
ever do that type of reality show?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Not in a group setting like that? I think that's
a recipe for disaster. Why, I mean, but these guys'
friends before the show.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
They were like kind of all acquaintances, some are some
are more friends than others.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
But yeah, well I just.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Think when it's when there's so many different personalities and
this camera is involved in it's just a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Which guy did you like the most.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
More quiet one? Because Messus was pregnant.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Oh, Janet's husband.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty amicable, pretty composed, but powerful enough
to hold themselves in the group. Yeah, and these emotions
were pretty balanced as well, unlike the little things.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I mean, it's good TV.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So but I'm curious to see how Michelle is doing today,
how she's feeling, and we'll get into that. So let's
take a break and then we'll get Michelle on. Michelle,
(04:49):
thank you so much for coming on mind Down. I
have to tell you I got so hooked on watching
the show, And I feel almost bad saying that, because
you know your marriage fell apart kind of and you
know we all watched that happen is and so I
feel bad saying I got hooked on something that you
(05:09):
know had a tough ending for you and your family.
So I guess, how are you after this is all
played out.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
It's been interesting to rewatch it all, but I actually
feel good about it. I feel like it can be
empowering to a lot of women, and if I can
help others speak to their voice or see if they're
in a bad relationship and they can do something about it,
I just want to be super helpful. So I feel
good about that. There's parts where it's very emotional, and
(05:40):
I didn't expect to be that vulnerable because I'm more
of a private person and I keep things inside. So
it's very interesting to see me kind of open.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Up, right, I mean, what do you want people to
know now that they've been able to see all of
this play out? Like, you know, because obviously I have
a handful of questions, but like, what is the main
thing that you're like, this is what I want people
to know from this moment after watching the show.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Well, clearly they all everybody got to see very small
clips of our relationship, and people didn't get to see
the actual struggle of how difficult it was, the years
of how unhappy I was. It wasn't just a single thing,
and it wasn't just a couple months. It was a
very long period. And although people can say small things
(06:32):
like I tried that doesn't necessarily mean that they actually
tried just because they said it on a TV show,
So they have to just understand that it's a lot
bigger than they see. But ultimately, I made the decision
to leave and it was the best thing for my
daughter and I and there's reasons behind all of.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It, right.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I think that's so hard too, because people only see
the edited version of however long that was filmed for,
you know, they didn't see the years that you know,
the struggle or the trying that you guys did behind
closed doors. And I also think it was interesting too
how they did edit a lot of the things, like
they almost in a way portrayed your ex as the
guy that was like the only one fighting in a way, right,
(07:15):
Like there was many times they used the same clip,
I just want to fight for my marriage.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I want to fight and fight and in.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
A way, and as a viewer, I was like, oh,
I feel bad, like he's wanting to fight so hard,
and it almost made me sad that it just kind
of portrayed almost in a way that you didn't want to,
but yet you were, you know what I mean. So
I can see the both sides of it too. You know,
I'm like, no, there's so much more behind this, but
I just I don't want her to be portrayed as
(07:43):
something that isn't.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Also, a lot of people thought I was cold, and
it was I was not like that for a long time.
That was the very end tail of my relationship. And
Jesse is very different than me. He's outgoing, he studied
to be an actor. It's very easy for him to cry.
He has that, and I'm just more like I closed
(08:05):
up and so it's just different personalities. But yes, the
editing and how everything is portrayed is hard to fully
grasp our entire relationship.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well, and that's where I could also see the other
side of it and go no, no, no, Like you
can tell when when a woman this is what you know,
my my fiance at first, you know, he's like, why
are you watching that? But then he got hooked on
it too, and he's listening right now, but he's you know,
it was I was like no, no, no, I was like,
she's you can tell she's tried this long and she's
(08:36):
at the point where she's literally just done. Like there's
nothing that he could have done. He could have done
ayahuasca to leave his blue in the face, like there's
there's so many things. It's like when you get to
that point, and I remember getting that same point with
my ax, I'm like, he could have done you know,
the therapy that would have changed it all, and I
still would have been like no, Like, it's you hit
your breaking point where you're like, I, I know what
(08:58):
is best now for my daughter. And when you get
to that point, you're right. There's such strength in that
moment that like you know that you did everything you
could and so as long as you have that like,
that's a that's a beautiful place to be.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Yeah, I agree, I love that.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So where where do you think, like, when you look
back on your relationship, was the moment that you I know,
it's all the little things that compile, but was there
one thing that you were like, No, this is kind
of where it started for me where I started to
kind of question the marriage that I was in.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Well, he said it on an episode that I was
growing as a mother and he wasn't. You know. I
was always with Isabella. I was always taking her to
the park or taking her to activities, and it was
more important for him to go out to dinners or
lunches with friends and drink and go out of town
(09:50):
to NAPA, and he just had a different priority and
his family wasn't his number one priority. And that was
how it originally started. Just the time alone was very difficult,
and I felt very lonely and I felt like a
single mom at one point, even though I was married.
And I said, like he was never fully present, even
though he was there. So when that starts, it only
(10:14):
gets worse.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
You say, you know, obviously it's hard for you to
be you know, I'm open about certain things.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Where did this show come up from?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like? Did you I me even saying yes to this?
Like I guess why was your why for the show?
Speaker 5 (10:31):
When they first originally told us about the show, Isabella
was only one and we were actually in a very
good place and so not until they told us we
were going to do it, I was still very confused.
I had no idea at that point that we would separate,
and I thought that because I gave him a chance,
(10:52):
I wanted to leave him, and he said, give me
a year, give me an opportunity to change, and within
that year, if you're still not, He's like, but I
will do whatever it takes to make sure that we
are together. So I really believed him. And during that
time is when they said that we would be filming,
you know, a month later. So I didn't really go
(11:14):
into it thinking that we were going to talk about
our marital problems. I thought we could kind of hide that,
or you could just you could see it a little bit.
But I didn't know that was going to be the
main story and happened that way, And then I went
with the flow.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Did you wait to tell him that he wanted to divorce?
For I mean, obviously you did when the cameras stopped rolling,
but I mean when you were filming, did you pretty
much know that was going to Did you want to
wait till the cameras were done or so?
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Honestly, the show helped me because I had to talk
about our problems so much with him and with our friends,
and I felt like I was hiding that, and so
because of the show forcing me to talk about it,
it made me realize like, wow, I really am unhappy,
and wow he really isn't and my life is exactly
the way it was two three years ago. And so
(12:06):
as the show every week, every week, I started realizing, like,
I'm not happy and maybe I do need to leave,
and so not towards the very end, that's when inside me,
I said, I am unhappy and I need to leave.
But I didn't want to originally do it, you know,
while filming. Obviously it's it's a very tough conversation to have,
(12:28):
and so when we were done filming, that's when I
made the decision to talk to him and tell him
that it wasn't going to work anymore.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Do you think, I mean, what do you think when
he says he felt blindsided by it, because I mean,
I watched the show and I'm like, I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I mean, I'm like, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
He wasn't blindsided because I told him specifically what needed
to change. I gave him a list. This is how
why I'm unhappy, this is what I need from you.
And so I think it was a combination of him
just not believing I would ever leave, and he was
very comfortable because at the end of the day, he
(13:07):
could do whatever he wants. It was like he was
living a great life and he had his wife and
daughter at home, and it's like, yeah, why would he
want a divorce when he has, you know, the perfect
image in the perfect family, yet he gets to do
whatever he wants. Of course, he didn't want to get divorced.
It wouldn't have affected him, So I just thought it
(13:28):
was him. He just wasn't blindsided. He just didn't want
to believe it, and he just thought it would never
happen and it would never come to that and him
pretending to try is was bullshit to me.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So and also I'm just like I when I watched
the finale, like it's it kind of brought me back
to that early stages of co parenting with my AX,
and that just resentment. I mean, you when you just
hate each other, you know what I mean, but you
have to have the conversations because you share a little
human together, and that is I mean that like hurt
(14:06):
me watching that for you, because I'm like, oh, like,
I just I hate having the custody conversation. And then again,
like there's just so much like in the early stages,
like anger and hurt and resentment. So is it any
better than what we saw in the finale or are
you guys able to like how is the coke going?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
It's slightly better, but I say that it's a roller coaster.
It really is. We have okay days and we have
terrible days, and it's difficult because we have different rules
and what we think is appropriate and not appropriate, and
so trying to understand that. But yeah, I mean we're
constantly getting mad at each other. We're still texting all
(14:46):
the time, and we're just trying to figure it out.
But we're nowhere near you know, happy.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, I mean, I listen, I get it. I mean,
it took it took me two and a half year
to even get to a place where, you know, I
can consider my ex that we're on friendly terms now.
I mean, it takes it takes a while because there's
so much history, there's so much past or so much hurt.
So it's you know, I so I totally emphasize with that,
(15:12):
and I'm really sorry they're having to go through that.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Thank you. Yeah, it's been tough.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And now I mean, obviously, like I have to ask
because it's it's out there publicly. I mean, you guys
have both moved on. It looks like okay, so has
I mean, are you happy? Like absolutely?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:31):
I actually wouldn't. I don't know what I would do
without him at this point. He's very helpful in so
many ways. He's just very supportive and we connect really well,
and I think we have very similar values and it's
just much easier and smoother to be with one another.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Have you met Jesse's girlfriend at all?
Speaker 5 (15:52):
I met her once. Yeah. Isabella had a fourth birthday
recently and Jesse had a little birthday party and he
actually invited my boyfriend and I to come over for cake,
so we all kind of met along with some of
our friends.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
That's good, right, I mean, that's end of the day.
I'm I always saying like that's that's always so hard,
but it's you know, it's good. I think personally, it's
good for the kids, you know, to see That's why.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
I did it. Ultimately, I want her to see us happy,
and we do try our best because we care so
much about Isabella. We've done way better in terms of
not fighting in front of her, and I can see
the big difference in her personality and not having as
many tantrums and so for Isabella, it's been really good
to just see that happiness between him and I and
(16:39):
obviously not living together.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
For sure, I know how because how old is it
Isabella now?
Speaker 5 (16:43):
She just turned four. She's a very smart four year old.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh she yeah, she can't men tall, Like she was
clocking one of those you know, the arguments. I was like, oh,
she's she's walked into this right.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
Now, and as soon as that happens, we just stop
and we're happy.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Okay. So where are you with Kristin right now?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Because I felt angry for you that she essentially called
out this rumor about you having a boyfriend. She's like, there,
I said it, and she walks away. So how do
you kind of come back from that? And you know,
is there you know, the rumor of the sexy photos
(17:33):
and all of that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, where do you have to say to those things?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
I did not send any sexy photos. I explained another
time that it might have been just we went to
Vegas like all the girls for Britney's birthday party, and
you know, you do sexy stories and sexy posts, but
it wasn't specifically to somebody, and they responded to my story.
(17:57):
But it was very innocent and nothing more than that.
I don't know how to come back from that yet.
Kristin and I haven't had a conversation very much. A
woman of if somebody does something to me. It just
removed them from my life and I don't talk to them.
So in the future, I don't know what kind of
(18:17):
relationship that will be because obviously I don't trust her.
But we'll see.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
There's I mean, there's just it's so much. I mean,
how do you do you want to do a second season?
I mean, do you do you want to have that
play out for another season?
Speaker 5 (18:34):
I mean a part of me is, you know, you
get nervous and afraid because it's just hard to do.
It's not something I've ever been used to, and I
don't think it's exactly my personality type, but I do
because I went through such a difficult time in my life,
not only divorced, but there were other things that happened
(18:55):
in my life. For example, my mom had cancer during
while I was filming, So it was just so many
layers of why I was unhappy, and so people didn't
really get to learn a lot about me, and you
can clearly see how miserable I look. So I do
want to grow and show people who I am and
(19:15):
what happens after divorce and you could still be happy
and move forward.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I mean, girl, I'm the biggest advocate for that,
you know.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I mean I'm always the person that's preaching like there
is there is hope, and there's after divorce. I mean,
I wouldn't wish divorce on my worst enemy. But I've
never been this in love in my entire life, you know,
and you and you too. I mean it's like you
start to realize it, like what you want and what
you don't want, what you'll accept and what she won't accept.
(19:44):
And I can't imagine again having that play out on
national television. That must have just been crazy for you.
But again, you know you wanted to try everything you could.
So when you talk to Isabella when she's older, like
you now have that sense like I did everything that
I could.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Yeah, and I think she'll understand me and she'll know
why I did it, and I think she'll be proud
of me and think and realize that it was good
for all of us.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, because that part, that part made me sad to
watch that, because those are the conversations that will be
the hardest with the kids. But as long as you
know that you did everything you could. Yeah, and at
the end of the day, we just whether together or
a part. I mean, I think my kids are happy
or now with happier parents, you know, so exactly.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
And I talk a lot about how if in order
to leave, I have to be the one to leave.
But it wasn't that I did anything. It was that
he couldn't provide and make us happy in a certain way,
and so he forced me to leave. And so I
think one day she'll understand.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That with the relationship that you have right now, I mean,
is that something will that play on TV for the
next episode? Like is he is he cool with filming
or I'm not sure because he's really busy with work.
But he's so supportive and he knows everybody, all the
girls and got most of the guys, and so I
think he's open to the idea. And obviously him and
(21:12):
I spend a lot of time together, so it only
be natural for him to join us, So I hope.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
So, but we'll see.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Who's your favorite guy on the show?
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Oh, that's a hard question. I'd say Danny. He has
a really good sense of humor. He is a really
nice guy. I actually go to church with them every Sunday,
so it's really nice to just see them. They are
a wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Cupful Yeah, That's what I was telling my fiance and
the plane, I'm like, I love I love them together,
especially every time he drinks too. That was just that
whole thing was really funny. She's like, Oh, we gotta go,
we gotta go, we gotta go.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It's time to go.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Oh he's a good listener.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, no, he is, No, he is. I mean Jacks is.
Obviously we saw Jackson brittany relationship too. I mean, do
you have any kind of thoughts on how their relationship
played out in the show.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
I think there's so many similarities between Jack's and Jesse
and words don't mean anything if the actions aren't there,
and so we want to see action. So we're waiting.
We waited for them to move forward and work on
themselves and work on the marriage. And I hope they
work out. I don't know what's going to happen, but
(22:27):
I want Brittany to be so happy, So whatever that is,
that's what I want for her.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
What is one thing you want people to take away
from watching the show? And again, just I know you
kind of mentioned like that you can leave and you
can have you know, the happy ending, But what is
something else that you want people to know?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
About you.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I mean, life is hard. Life is so hard. We
all struggle in different capacities, different ways, and it just
takes a lot of hard work. But anything's possible. I
think saving a marriage is possible, and also walking away
it's possible. It just depends on the situation the person.
(23:06):
And I don't know, just life.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I get that very much.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Okay, So Michelle, thank you so much for coming on.
I mean, I just I love you. I'm like, can
we hang? I'm coming to Peoples next week, and I'm
like I would love you, like You're so sweet. Thanks,
but thank you for showing women that it can be
done and that you know that it's it's it's okay.
There doesn't have to be some big thing that you know,
(23:32):
he didn't you know, you guys have to be some
big catalyst for you to find your strength to leave.
So that's another important thing too for women to know
as well. I have a friend that said one time,
she's like, well, I don't feel like I can divorce
my husband. And I said why, She's like, well, he
didn't know, he didn't cheat, he didn't have a drinking problem.
He's on now, and she's like, so I'm like you
don't need some big catalysts, like if you're unhappy in
(23:54):
your marriage and you've tried and you've done therapy, and
you know you guys played the therapy out on TV too,
So it's like you done all the things you feel
like you've done. Like you shouldn't stay in an unhappy
marriage just because he didn't do some big thing. Give
you the reason, like if you're not happy and he's
there's certain things changing, like you deserve to be happy.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Thank you so much much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay, all right, Benny, all right, baby, you didn't come
in you got a little nervous.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
No.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
I think I felt it was better for you guys
to have a women to women conversation about this.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
What were your thoughts from watching the show?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
What's reality is TV?
Speaker 4 (24:30):
So I think people can get caught up and what
the manufacturer edits are sure and not the true reflection
of that period because it seems like it was a
long paid But she's she's suffered in the relationship, yeah,
or the relationship is suffered, the manager suffered. I think
the takeaways are that you have the perception that she's
(24:53):
she wasn't willing to work on it like you covered yeah,
but she clearly was clearly patient. She asked for change, right,
but they show you, they show you the half side,
like the harsh words of you need to change your personality. Right,
what guy wants to hear that? But again that's just
what they've shown, right. Whether she's probably made a way
(25:14):
through that Johnny and tried to, she's probably been suppressed
as well.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Sure, so I think.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And over too, like there comes a point where like
you can only like your actions and words they have
to match, right, So it's like I think that's why
she was kind of saying with like Brittany and Jacks too,
and like you have to have words and actions match.
And that's where I think. I stut, like my last
relationship not seeing the words and actions match with you.
You say something, you do it, and that's what I
(25:40):
love about you is because they match.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
It would just be interesting to know why they went
with that route of almost making him I want to try,
I want to feccess, but making all the bad person
in it.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well, that's where I think the.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Cold one when it's probably not the case.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That's where I always think it's unfair how women and
get it's always Oh, we're the crazy one, we're the
bat where And it's like, wait a minute, yeah, that's
not really. That becomes the narrative in a way. So
that's that's and and then you feel for the guy
like oh he tried and like it even tried to
take me. And then I was like, wait, you know,
at no point did I feel from Okay, Well, I
(26:20):
have one last question. Will you watch season two of
the Valley with me?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yes? Check, yes or not? What?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Everyone watched The Valley. It's so great and Michelle follow
along with her journey. Thanks guys, Bye,
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.
All Right, so this week's wind Down podcast, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
On location in New York.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I have roped Alan.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Into the beginning of this because all right, so I
I've watched episodes here and there of you know, Housewives,
and but I haven't really watched from beginning to end.
And then I heard about The Valley and I was like,
all right, I'm gonna watch it. I don't know, I
(00:36):
have this thing with the Valley, like we're going to
we're going to, uh, Los Angeles in a couple of weeks,
And for some reason, I always gravit towards the Valley
whenever I book for you know, book a place or anything.
And so I was watching it at home, and you know,
you make like your little comments.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Why A you're watching reality TV?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, because it's not something I some thing you've ever
really seen me, no watch, But it was like a
book I couldn't put down.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah. I watched you getting gradually get more and more invested.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And then you asked me what made me want to watch?
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, Well, when people come on the show, you do,
you do your research, but this one you were like okay.
Normally you watched like an hour or two, but this one,
it was like episode after the episode, after the episode, I.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Know, I got hooked on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And then when we were on the plane going to
New York because I was here for a movie for
press from my movie gaslet I go, Alan, just put
a little erin and just listen. And did you know
that he watched like three episodes with me and you
got hooked.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
That's because the WiFi wasn't walking on the flight.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, no, no, no, no no, no, you could have done anything.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
No, I got hooked.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh I got the wow.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
No, I think I think it hooked. But I became
an invested in people's personalities.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Okay, reactions to stuff, okay, And therefore it became interesting
me and.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So much so that he was like, hey, babe, did
they send you the finale screener? We're just it was
so funny to me because we're at dinner and I
knew that the finale was coming out. We were going
to be able to get a screener because we're interviewing
Michelle today from the Valley, and he asked if we
got the screener, So I immediately text you know, our
(02:27):
the Little wind Down podcast crew, and like Alan just
asked for the screener and Babe, I'm sorry, but I
did watch it.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Oh did you?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so I got to watch it this morning.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
They sent it to me.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, you know, we got to watch it, you know,
obviously before it aired. Now people can watch it when
this airs. But so the finale was after they stopped
taping Michelle, who we have on today, she asked for
a divorce, like after the camera.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Stopped rolling immediately after, I think, so yeah, on.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Set, Well, so what from what I saw is they
didn't film that, but they did film the conversation of like,
you know, her picking up Isabella and them talking about
how they're splitting their business, and the two on two
and the custody. So yeah, but she she did it
when the camera stopped, and I think that's where he
(03:24):
felt a little blindsided. And then Jax and Brittany, Brittany
left the women.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
The woman see, he remembers.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, So, from as a guy's perspective, actually, would you
ever do that type of reality show?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Not in a group setting like that? I think that's
a recipe for disaster. Why, I mean, but these guys'
friends before the show.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
They were like kind of all acquaintances, some are some
are more friends than others.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
But yeah, well I just.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Think when it's when there's so many different personalities and
this camera is involved in it's just a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Which guy did you like the most.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
More quiet one? Because Messus was pregnant.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Oh, Janet's husband.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty amicable, pretty composed, but powerful enough
to hold themselves in the group. Yeah, and these emotions
were pretty balanced as well, unlike the little things.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I mean, it's good TV.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So but I'm curious to see how Michelle is doing today,
how she's feeling, and we'll get into that. So let's
take a break and then we'll get Michelle on. Michelle,
(04:49):
thank you so much for coming on mind Down. I
have to tell you I got so hooked on watching
the show, And I feel almost bad saying that, because
you know your marriage fell apart kind of and you
know we all watched that happen is and so I
feel bad saying I got hooked on something that you
(05:09):
know had a tough ending for you and your family.
So I guess, how are you after this is all
played out.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
It's been interesting to rewatch it all, but I actually
feel good about it. I feel like it can be
empowering to a lot of women, and if I can
help others speak to their voice or see if they're
in a bad relationship and they can do something about it,
I just want to be super helpful. So I feel
good about that. There's parts where it's very emotional, and
(05:40):
I didn't expect to be that vulnerable because I'm more
of a private person and I keep things inside. So
it's very interesting to see me kind of open.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Up, right, I mean, what do you want people to
know now that they've been able to see all of
this play out? Like, you know, because obviously I have
a handful of questions, but like, what is the main
thing that you're like, this is what I want people
to know from this moment after watching the show.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Well, clearly they all everybody got to see very small
clips of our relationship, and people didn't get to see
the actual struggle of how difficult it was, the years
of how unhappy I was. It wasn't just a single thing,
and it wasn't just a couple months. It was a
very long period. And although people can say small things
(06:32):
like I tried that doesn't necessarily mean that they actually
tried just because they said it on a TV show,
So they have to just understand that it's a lot
bigger than they see. But ultimately, I made the decision
to leave and it was the best thing for my
daughter and I and there's reasons behind all of.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It, right.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I think that's so hard too, because people only see
the edited version of however long that was filmed for,
you know, they didn't see the years that you know,
the struggle or the trying that you guys did behind
closed doors. And I also think it was interesting too
how they did edit a lot of the things, like
they almost in a way portrayed your ex as the
guy that was like the only one fighting in a way, right,
(07:15):
Like there was many times they used the same clip,
I just want to fight for my marriage.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I want to fight and fight and in.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
A way, and as a viewer, I was like, oh,
I feel bad, like he's wanting to fight so hard,
and it almost made me sad that it just kind
of portrayed almost in a way that you didn't want to,
but yet you were, you know what I mean. So
I can see the both sides of it too. You know,
I'm like, no, there's so much more behind this, but
I just I don't want her to be portrayed as
(07:43):
something that isn't.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Also, a lot of people thought I was cold, and
it was I was not like that for a long time.
That was the very end tail of my relationship. And
Jesse is very different than me. He's outgoing, he studied
to be an actor. It's very easy for him to cry.
He has that, and I'm just more like I closed
(08:05):
up and so it's just different personalities. But yes, the
editing and how everything is portrayed is hard to fully
grasp our entire relationship.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well, and that's where I could also see the other
side of it and go no, no, no, Like you
can tell when when a woman this is what you know,
my my fiance at first, you know, he's like, why
are you watching that? But then he got hooked on
it too, and he's listening right now, but he's you know,
it was I was like no, no, no, I was like,
she's you can tell she's tried this long and she's
(08:36):
at the point where she's literally just done. Like there's
nothing that he could have done. He could have done
ayahuasca to leave his blue in the face, like there's
there's so many things. It's like when you get to
that point, and I remember getting that same point with
my ax, I'm like, he could have done you know,
the therapy that would have changed it all, and I
still would have been like no, Like, it's you hit
your breaking point where you're like, I, I know what
(08:58):
is best now for my daughter. And when you get
to that point, you're right. There's such strength in that
moment that like you know that you did everything you
could and so as long as you have that like,
that's a that's a beautiful place to be.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Yeah, I agree, I love that.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So where where do you think, like, when you look
back on your relationship, was the moment that you I know,
it's all the little things that compile, but was there
one thing that you were like, No, this is kind
of where it started for me where I started to
kind of question the marriage that I was in.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Well, he said it on an episode that I was
growing as a mother and he wasn't. You know. I
was always with Isabella. I was always taking her to
the park or taking her to activities, and it was
more important for him to go out to dinners or
lunches with friends and drink and go out of town
(09:50):
to NAPA, and he just had a different priority and
his family wasn't his number one priority. And that was
how it originally started. Just the time alone was very difficult,
and I felt very lonely and I felt like a
single mom at one point, even though I was married.
And I said, like he was never fully present, even
though he was there. So when that starts, it only
(10:14):
gets worse.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
You say, you know, obviously it's hard for you to
be you know, I'm open about certain things.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Where did this show come up from?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like? Did you I me even saying yes to this?
Like I guess why was your why for the show?
Speaker 5 (10:31):
When they first originally told us about the show, Isabella
was only one and we were actually in a very
good place and so not until they told us we
were going to do it, I was still very confused.
I had no idea at that point that we would separate,
and I thought that because I gave him a chance,
(10:52):
I wanted to leave him, and he said, give me
a year, give me an opportunity to change, and within
that year, if you're still not, He's like, but I
will do whatever it takes to make sure that we
are together. So I really believed him. And during that
time is when they said that we would be filming,
you know, a month later. So I didn't really go
(11:14):
into it thinking that we were going to talk about
our marital problems. I thought we could kind of hide that,
or you could just you could see it a little bit.
But I didn't know that was going to be the
main story and happened that way, And then I went
with the flow.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Did you wait to tell him that he wanted to divorce?
For I mean, obviously you did when the cameras stopped rolling,
but I mean when you were filming, did you pretty
much know that was going to Did you want to
wait till the cameras were done or so?
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Honestly, the show helped me because I had to talk
about our problems so much with him and with our friends,
and I felt like I was hiding that, and so
because of the show forcing me to talk about it,
it made me realize like, wow, I really am unhappy,
and wow he really isn't and my life is exactly
the way it was two three years ago. And so
(12:06):
as the show every week, every week, I started realizing, like,
I'm not happy and maybe I do need to leave,
and so not towards the very end, that's when inside me,
I said, I am unhappy and I need to leave.
But I didn't want to originally do it, you know,
while filming. Obviously it's it's a very tough conversation to have,
(12:28):
and so when we were done filming, that's when I
made the decision to talk to him and tell him
that it wasn't going to work anymore.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Do you think, I mean, what do you think when
he says he felt blindsided by it, because I mean,
I watched the show and I'm like, I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I mean, I'm like, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
He wasn't blindsided because I told him specifically what needed
to change. I gave him a list. This is how
why I'm unhappy, this is what I need from you.
And so I think it was a combination of him
just not believing I would ever leave, and he was
very comfortable because at the end of the day, he
(13:07):
could do whatever he wants. It was like he was
living a great life and he had his wife and
daughter at home, and it's like, yeah, why would he
want a divorce when he has, you know, the perfect
image in the perfect family, yet he gets to do
whatever he wants. Of course, he didn't want to get divorced.
It wouldn't have affected him, So I just thought it
(13:28):
was him. He just wasn't blindsided. He just didn't want
to believe it, and he just thought it would never
happen and it would never come to that and him
pretending to try is was bullshit to me.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So and also I'm just like I when I watched
the finale, like it's it kind of brought me back
to that early stages of co parenting with my AX,
and that just resentment. I mean, you when you just
hate each other, you know what I mean, but you
have to have the conversations because you share a little
human together, and that is I mean that like hurt
(14:06):
me watching that for you, because I'm like, oh, like,
I just I hate having the custody conversation. And then again,
like there's just so much like in the early stages,
like anger and hurt and resentment. So is it any
better than what we saw in the finale or are
you guys able to like how is the coke going?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
It's slightly better, but I say that it's a roller coaster.
It really is. We have okay days and we have
terrible days, and it's difficult because we have different rules
and what we think is appropriate and not appropriate, and
so trying to understand that. But yeah, I mean we're
constantly getting mad at each other. We're still texting all
(14:46):
the time, and we're just trying to figure it out.
But we're nowhere near you know, happy.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, I mean, I listen, I get it. I mean,
it took it took me two and a half year
to even get to a place where, you know, I
can consider my ex that we're on friendly terms now.
I mean, it takes it takes a while because there's
so much history, there's so much past or so much hurt.
So it's you know, I so I totally emphasize with that,
(15:12):
and I'm really sorry they're having to go through that.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Thank you. Yeah, it's been tough.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And now I mean, obviously, like I have to ask
because it's it's out there publicly. I mean, you guys
have both moved on. It looks like okay, so has
I mean, are you happy? Like absolutely?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:31):
I actually wouldn't. I don't know what I would do
without him at this point. He's very helpful in so
many ways. He's just very supportive and we connect really well,
and I think we have very similar values and it's
just much easier and smoother to be with one another.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Have you met Jesse's girlfriend at all?
Speaker 5 (15:52):
I met her once. Yeah. Isabella had a fourth birthday
recently and Jesse had a little birthday party and he
actually invited my boyfriend and I to come over for cake,
so we all kind of met along with some of
our friends.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
That's good, right, I mean, that's end of the day.
I'm I always saying like that's that's always so hard,
but it's you know, it's good. I think personally, it's
good for the kids, you know, to see That's why.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
I did it. Ultimately, I want her to see us happy,
and we do try our best because we care so
much about Isabella. We've done way better in terms of
not fighting in front of her, and I can see
the big difference in her personality and not having as
many tantrums and so for Isabella, it's been really good
to just see that happiness between him and I and
(16:39):
obviously not living together.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
For sure, I know how because how old is it
Isabella now?
Speaker 5 (16:43):
She just turned four. She's a very smart four year old.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh she yeah, she can't men tall, Like she was
clocking one of those you know, the arguments. I was like, oh,
she's she's walked into this right.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
Now, and as soon as that happens, we just stop
and we're happy.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Okay. So where are you with Kristin right now?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Because I felt angry for you that she essentially called
out this rumor about you having a boyfriend. She's like, there,
I said it, and she walks away. So how do
you kind of come back from that? And you know,
is there you know, the rumor of the sexy photos
(17:33):
and all of that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, where do you have to say to those things?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
I did not send any sexy photos. I explained another
time that it might have been just we went to
Vegas like all the girls for Britney's birthday party, and
you know, you do sexy stories and sexy posts, but
it wasn't specifically to somebody, and they responded to my story.
(17:57):
But it was very innocent and nothing more than that.
I don't know how to come back from that yet.
Kristin and I haven't had a conversation very much. A
woman of if somebody does something to me. It just
removed them from my life and I don't talk to them.
So in the future, I don't know what kind of
(18:17):
relationship that will be because obviously I don't trust her.
But we'll see.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
There's I mean, there's just it's so much. I mean,
how do you do you want to do a second season?
I mean, do you do you want to have that
play out for another season?
Speaker 5 (18:34):
I mean a part of me is, you know, you
get nervous and afraid because it's just hard to do.
It's not something I've ever been used to, and I
don't think it's exactly my personality type, but I do
because I went through such a difficult time in my life,
not only divorced, but there were other things that happened
(18:55):
in my life. For example, my mom had cancer during
while I was filming, So it was just so many
layers of why I was unhappy, and so people didn't
really get to learn a lot about me, and you
can clearly see how miserable I look. So I do
want to grow and show people who I am and
(19:15):
what happens after divorce and you could still be happy
and move forward.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I mean, girl, I'm the biggest advocate for that,
you know.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I mean I'm always the person that's preaching like there
is there is hope, and there's after divorce. I mean,
I wouldn't wish divorce on my worst enemy. But I've
never been this in love in my entire life, you know,
and you and you too. I mean it's like you
start to realize it, like what you want and what
you don't want, what you'll accept and what she won't accept.
(19:44):
And I can't imagine again having that play out on
national television. That must have just been crazy for you.
But again, you know you wanted to try everything you could.
So when you talk to Isabella when she's older, like
you now have that sense like I did everything that
I could.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Yeah, and I think she'll understand me and she'll know
why I did it, and I think she'll be proud
of me and think and realize that it was good
for all of us.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, because that part, that part made me sad to
watch that, because those are the conversations that will be
the hardest with the kids. But as long as you
know that you did everything you could. Yeah, and at
the end of the day, we just whether together or
a part. I mean, I think my kids are happy
or now with happier parents, you know, so exactly.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
And I talk a lot about how if in order
to leave, I have to be the one to leave.
But it wasn't that I did anything. It was that
he couldn't provide and make us happy in a certain way,
and so he forced me to leave. And so I
think one day she'll understand.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That with the relationship that you have right now, I mean,
is that something will that play on TV for the
next episode? Like is he is he cool with filming
or I'm not sure because he's really busy with work.
But he's so supportive and he knows everybody, all the
girls and got most of the guys, and so I
think he's open to the idea. And obviously him and
(21:12):
I spend a lot of time together, so it only
be natural for him to join us, So I hope.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
So, but we'll see.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Who's your favorite guy on the show?
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Oh, that's a hard question. I'd say Danny. He has
a really good sense of humor. He is a really
nice guy. I actually go to church with them every Sunday,
so it's really nice to just see them. They are
a wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Cupful Yeah, That's what I was telling my fiance and
the plane, I'm like, I love I love them together,
especially every time he drinks too. That was just that
whole thing was really funny. She's like, Oh, we gotta go,
we gotta go, we gotta go.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It's time to go.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Oh he's a good listener.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, no, he is, No, he is. I mean Jacks is.
Obviously we saw Jackson brittany relationship too. I mean, do
you have any kind of thoughts on how their relationship
played out in the show.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
I think there's so many similarities between Jack's and Jesse
and words don't mean anything if the actions aren't there,
and so we want to see action. So we're waiting.
We waited for them to move forward and work on
themselves and work on the marriage. And I hope they
work out. I don't know what's going to happen, but
(22:27):
I want Brittany to be so happy, So whatever that is,
that's what I want for her.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
What is one thing you want people to take away
from watching the show? And again, just I know you
kind of mentioned like that you can leave and you
can have you know, the happy ending, But what is
something else that you want people to know?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
About you.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I mean, life is hard. Life is so hard. We
all struggle in different capacities, different ways, and it just
takes a lot of hard work. But anything's possible. I
think saving a marriage is possible, and also walking away
it's possible. It just depends on the situation the person.
(23:06):
And I don't know, just life.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I get that very much.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Okay, So Michelle, thank you so much for coming on.
I mean, I just I love you. I'm like, can
we hang? I'm coming to Peoples next week, and I'm
like I would love you, like You're so sweet. Thanks,
but thank you for showing women that it can be
done and that you know that it's it's it's okay.
There doesn't have to be some big thing that you know,
(23:32):
he didn't you know, you guys have to be some
big catalyst for you to find your strength to leave.
So that's another important thing too for women to know
as well. I have a friend that said one time,
she's like, well, I don't feel like I can divorce
my husband. And I said why, She's like, well, he
didn't know, he didn't cheat, he didn't have a drinking problem.
He's on now, and she's like, so I'm like you
don't need some big catalysts, like if you're unhappy in
(23:54):
your marriage and you've tried and you've done therapy, and
you know you guys played the therapy out on TV too,
So it's like you done all the things you feel
like you've done. Like you shouldn't stay in an unhappy
marriage just because he didn't do some big thing. Give
you the reason, like if you're not happy and he's
there's certain things changing, like you deserve to be happy.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Thank you so much much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay, all right, Benny, all right, baby, you didn't come
in you got a little nervous.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
No.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
I think I felt it was better for you guys
to have a women to women conversation about this.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
What were your thoughts from watching the show?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
What's reality is TV?
Speaker 4 (24:30):
So I think people can get caught up and what
the manufacturer edits are sure and not the true reflection
of that period because it seems like it was a
long paid But she's she's suffered in the relationship, yeah,
or the relationship is suffered, the manager suffered. I think
the takeaways are that you have the perception that she's
(24:53):
she wasn't willing to work on it like you covered yeah,
but she clearly was clearly patient. She asked for change, right,
but they show you, they show you the half side,
like the harsh words of you need to change your personality. Right,
what guy wants to hear that? But again that's just
what they've shown, right. Whether she's probably made a way
(25:14):
through that Johnny and tried to, she's probably been suppressed
as well.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Sure, so I think.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And over too, like there comes a point where like
you can only like your actions and words they have
to match, right, So it's like I think that's why
she was kind of saying with like Brittany and Jacks too,
and like you have to have words and actions match.
And that's where I think. I stut, like my last
relationship not seeing the words and actions match with you.
You say something, you do it, and that's what I
(25:40):
love about you is because they match.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
It would just be interesting to know why they went
with that route of almost making him I want to try,
I want to feccess, but making all the bad person
in it.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well, that's where I think the.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Cold one when it's probably not the case.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That's where I always think it's unfair how women and
get it's always Oh, we're the crazy one, we're the
bat where And it's like, wait a minute, yeah, that's
not really. That becomes the narrative in a way. So
that's that's and and then you feel for the guy
like oh he tried and like it even tried to
take me. And then I was like, wait, you know,
at no point did I feel from Okay, Well, I
(26:20):
have one last question. Will you watch season two of
the Valley with me?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yes? Check, yes or not? What?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Everyone watched The Valley. It's so great and Michelle follow
along with her journey. Thanks guys, Bye,
Host
Jana Kramer
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