June 26, 2025 • 43 mins
You’ve heard the story of Sherri Papini, the real life “Gone Girl” who staged her own kidnapping, but now she’s here to tell Jana what really happened.
Sherri takes us through the series of events, and explains why lying to police and going to prison felt like a better alternative to her 16 year marriage.
Plus, we ask Sherri if there were more affairs and partners than she originally confessed, and you won’t believe what happens when the truth finally comes out.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, So I gotta be honest, I'm having a
difficult time with this because as an interviewer, you should
have an unbiased opinion.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I believe. I believe that just interview somebody, yep.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I think that you should not come in with judgment,
not come in with preconceived opinions. And most of the time,
like you know, when we've had people like Whitney on
who was very much like she was the.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
How do we say that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Like the what would they call her on that the
first season of The Secret Antagonist? Yeah, and it's like
where we could go in and be like, oh, I
don't really know about her and we might feel it,
but you still want to be warm and kind and
give her the platform to be able to say what
she wants to say. Yeah, have her truth, her story.
(01:09):
And I feel like that should go. I mean, the
best people that I've seen interview, like a Barbara Walters,
you know, it's like they I don't feel like they ever.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
From what I.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Watched as a kid watching twenty twenty, I never really
saw them having judgment. I would agree, right, Okay, So
with this it's like, I know we're a podcast, but
we're still interviewing. Yeah, And I'm having a difficult time
with this. If I'm honest with you and.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
This, I really just want to go on the record
for saying that you and I watched this entire documentary,
but we have not spoken at all at all. We
have not about this. So I don't know how you're
entering this and you don't even have to tell me. Now,
I think my I think you'll be surprised.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Let me be honest, and I'll be I'll be straight
up honest with this, because again I'm teetering the line
between I listen, I am no Barbara Walters, Okay, I
have this podcast, and I think there's a difference between.
I think it's two things can be true at once, right,
So it's like, I have this podcast, and I have
my opinions about certain things, and I want to be
(02:21):
in to interview and give people the chance to have
their voices heard. Having said that, when I got this
request for this interview, I said, no, that was actually
going to be one of my questions to you. I said,
I don't want to have her on. Can I ask
why I don't believe her and it triggers something in
(02:43):
me to have someone that lies given something that is
freshly going on right now too. I have a and listen,
I have lied countless times in my past. I am
not by any means a saint or like I have
lie to people's faces. I've in my day back in
the day, like having said that I have, you know,
(03:09):
done my work and all the healing and all the things.
But when I when I kind of started to research
and then I watched the documentary, I was like, I
wondered if this would be hard for you because of that,
it triggers something post Mike Liars, I'm like, you're done.
(03:32):
You're done to me, You're dead to me, like you're
I just I can see right through what you're doing,
through the laugh, through the smile, like there's just And
then so much so that something has recently happened with
like a month or so ago, where this person was
straight up lying and I'm watching it happen. I'm like,
I know because I have proof, and you're lying through
(03:53):
your teeth right now. And it's like it then tended
to have people then to tended to be interviewing someone
that is a known liar.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
A federally accused and found guilty liar. I'm just like,
like lied to the FBI coming.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I don't want to sit in front of someone to
be lied to again like I did it for years.
I had someone lie to me for years to my face.
I'm done, Like, I don't want to. I don't want
to be like lied to. I feel that's my frustration
and I'm making basing it. No, No, I felt the
same thing. I started watching the documentary and I was like,
I don't even want to give this chick my time.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
But I will tell you. I think you'll be surprised
at some compassion I have found where with miss Sherry.
Really which piece you'll see?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, Well she's here, feed breaths, Let's
get her.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I'm good? How are you?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I am good? Cherry? We have a lot of questions.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
First, not the only one, so yeah, and first and foremost,
I just want to I'm curious because you know, obviously
we watched the documentary. What and from what I've been
told is that you didn't have editorial rights in piecing
that together. So I'm curious as let's take you out
of the equation, right, and you were a viewer sitting
(05:20):
on the couch watching this show, how how do you
think you were perceived in that and what as a
viewer would you be thinking watching it?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Well, I watched at the same time that everybody else
watched it, and that was absolutely terrifying because I had
no idea how the edits were going to come together.
I certainly knew what my interviews were like. It was
a year long process, and I knew what I had
gone through and the excruciating process that I went through
(05:54):
creating the film, but I had absolutely no idea how
it was going to be edited and my direction sure
that I worked with she continued to say, you know,
we are going to do something very balanced, right, And
so the primary objective of Sherry Pepini Cotton a Lie
was every time you had something that made me look good,
(06:16):
they had to balance it with something that would make
me look bad. For me, that's really scary because when
you go in with this negative bias of how I've
appeared online and the the reputation that I've had out there,
it already kind of tips the scales a little bit.
So it was pretty heartbreaking to watch for me to
(06:40):
watch how it came together. I'm proud of what I
contributed to it, and I'm proud of even the you know,
the moments that unfortunately are twisted or whatever, Like it's
still all me in there, and it's still incredibly vulnerable,
and I'm happy with what I can attributed to it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Do you feel like it was balanced?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Well, again, I think when you already go into something
with a level of negative bias, I think it generally
can tip the scales one way or another. But yeah,
I think so, Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I have Okay, So the one question that burns in
me is a pretty intimate and it's a pretty heavy one.
So I don't know how. I guess you can just
say pass if you prefer not to, but I know,
don't brace yourself. I'm a kind human, so I'm like
the I'm not one that's going to like attack, so
(07:38):
the compassion part of me. So I watched the whole thing,
and I felt like there was a part that they
maybe didn't give enough time to, and that would be
the childhood trauma piece and the sexual assault in your
early I know you said early double digits, so maybe
(08:00):
ten eleven, twelve, and so my question because I think
that this deserves a little space because it sets a
tone for all of your life, in my opinion, and
I have childhood trauma as well. It is not as
significant is something as that, but I know how it
has shaped me. The way I see things, the way
I do things, the justice I seek, my inability to
(08:22):
tolerate liars. That's no offense to our present guest, but
there is things that trigger me because of the way
I grew up. Do you feel like there was justice
in the sexual assault that happened to you early on,
because in the way the film is telling the story,
it was kind of swept under the rug. It felt
like this family never talked about it, which I would say,
(08:44):
we're the same age, so I would say that that
generation of parenting is pretty good at sweeping and not
identifying and not really digging in. But I am now,
I'm a mother of a nine year old, and I
can't imagine that I am in your father's place and
I walk in, as it's told on the documentary, he
(09:05):
walks in to find this person sexually assaulting his daughter,
and then there's not some sort of really deep dive
into you as a human and as a little girl,
little Sherry, and we're not working through that. So do
you feel is there any parts of those stories that
you want to retell? I don't want to make you
live a trauma, So that's why I'm careful in the
(09:26):
way I'm wording this. But I'm really super interested in
the non resolution that you got out of that maybe,
and how that could further shape all of these events
that now all of America is involved in.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I would say, for me, certainly, the bravery that it
took for my parents to even speak about that, to
feel comfortable coming out and being able to share that
very deeply rooted family secret, that a significant amount of
healing happened. So after I got out of prison and
(10:01):
I moved back in with my mom and dad, you know,
we were able to have family dinner every night, we
were able to really dig very deep into therapy together,
and this beautiful healing, blossoming relationship occurred. And to me,
that's really what I've always desired and what I've always needed.
(10:28):
Coming out in a film that's going to be seen
by millions of people, and my parents being willing to
speak on what happened to me, that's it's pretty incredible.
It's pretty incredible because there's you know, certainly with my dad,
he's carried around this tremendous guilt and this tremendous shame.
(10:49):
Because we're older, it's not like there's anything that we
even can do about it other than heal talk about it.
He's given me a tre tremendous amount of grace with
how it happened and the sweeping it under the rug
and not talking about it when we were that age.
We're talking about it now though, and it's become quite
(11:12):
a comfortable conversation with my parents, and I'm really I'm
really happy with the relationship that I have with the
trauma now.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I know that this is kind of a hindsight question,
so this may not be something you can even answer,
but one of the psychologists in the film talks about
how if that trauma, that trauma was not dealt with
appropriately at the time, and how that does and we
all know that just from existing in the world, if
little Sherry was to get the treatment she needed and
the healing and the emotional and mental support at the
(11:47):
time of that incident, do you think that shapes who
you are now differently? And do we think that we
even know who you are, because in my brain, I
don't even think we know who you are if you
had gotten the support at that time that you should
have gotten and is that I you know?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And the thing too, to add on to that, it's
like your friends from school were saying, you know, she
was always saying she was going to leave and then
make up lies and she was always lying about about stuff.
Do you think those lies came because of that on
field trauma?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Well, I think when the news story broke and everything
came out, everyone wanted to jump on the bandwagon. So
you know, you went to middle school, you went to
high school. We weren't friends with everybody that we met.
We weren't friends with everyone that we interacted with in school,
and so when you have AM it's kind of like
(12:40):
confirmation bias. Right. So, if this is a particular story,
if I have something that I want to talk about
that's in the avenue of the story, I'm going to
call and talk about what I have that contributes to
the story. There's so much more to my life and
there's so much more to the depth of my relationships.
But it's like when they pick out certain things just
(13:01):
to fixate on this one issue that I had. It
makes it really difficult because it's like there's other people
in my life that I've had these exceptional relationships with,
or even tumultuous tumultuous relationships with, and some of these
people that came forward like they've done really terrible things
(13:25):
and they are really horrible people, and now I have
to come back and I have to be able to
clean it up. And you know, there's a great example
is there's an ex boyfriend that went on and said, oh,
she just likes to make up stories. And I'm like,
you were cheating on your fiance and I didn't even
know you were engaged, and yet you're being brought up
in these news stories about me without evidence and just
(13:49):
trying to trash me, when it's like your life is
so incredibly horrific in and out of itself. So it's
it's really I feel so mean girled all the time,
and I feel so picked on all the time by
these people who are just getting up and giving their
opinion without even providing evidence of it. It's just like
(14:09):
rumor after rumor after rumor, and I've continued to try
and demonstrate my remorse and my accountability for what I've done.
But I'm done taking too much accountability and i am
done trying to continue to defend myself when people come
out with things that are just not true about me.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think, honestly my interaction and watching it, I still
was just having the hardest time trying to understand why
the lie in the beginning. And I'm still kind of
confused on that piece because I'm like, if I and
I get, you know, to an extent, some of the
stuff you were talking about, but it's like, if I
(15:04):
knew I was gonna, did you have I guess I'm
just I guess I'm just confused. I guess I'm just
lost on why why even lie? Make up this thing?
Because I'm like, you make up a lie because you're
trying to cover a shame piece. You're trying to cover
up something that's That's when I lied. I lied to
an ext boyfriend that I cheated on because I didn't
want him to know the truth that I that I cheated,
you know, and I made up this elaborate lie to
(15:26):
cover up my own shame stuff. And so you know,
that was what back in my twenties. But still it's
like with this situation. It's like I still just don't
understand why, Like I just I don't know if I
I just don't understand that. I don't. I don't understand
where the lie even started. It was like a bad
(15:48):
plan gone wrong, like did because obviously you were texting
with this guy. I know you said it led to
something else, but there's it's just doesn't something about it
just I don't. It doesn't make sense. And I think
that's maybe why other people don't believe the story, because
it doesn't. It's hard to make sense of it.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
The narrative that's out there prior to me coming forward
is the part that doesn't make sense. I think now
that I've come forward, and now that I'm able to
be able to speak on what happened, it tracks and
it aligns and it fills in all of the gaps
of the why and the confusion. And are you talking
(16:24):
about the Hulu documentary that you watched or the HBO documentary? Okay,
So for me, you know, I was carrying on this
emotional affair and I got in over my head and
was in a very dangerous situation, and then coming out
of it and going back home, I was too afraid
to tell my ex husband that I was having an
(16:47):
emotional affair, and the story that was made up to
cover up his identity, And that's all my story is.
I've always maintained that I was kidnapped and tortured and brutalized,
always continue to say that that is what happened. I
was just too afraid to come out and talk about
his identity. I was too afraid because James was watching.
(17:09):
I was afraid because I had already lied to law enforcement,
and I was terrified to tell my ex husband that
I was having an emotional affair. Because what you see
is happening right now. There's bits and pieces and details
of my marriage that are starting to come out now,
particularly starting with the documentary of the coercive control and
(17:30):
the abuse that I was suffering in my marriage. And
that's really all it was. I got into a dangerous
situation and I was too afraid to tell my ex
husband that I was having an emotional affair. And now
I'm not married anymore, and I'm not ashamed anymore, and
I've taken accountability for what I've done, and so I'm
(17:50):
able to very clearly talk about what happened, and why
the lie was created, and how I'm picking up the
pieces and rebuilding my life and moving forward from what happened.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
What were you afraid Keith would do if you told
him the truth before this abduction, if you were to
just come because there's burner phones involved, So this is
next level, sister. We got to be honest. Like I've
we're in the music industry, We've seen some shady things,
but like the burner.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Phone was a sex addict, so he had the burner phones.
Like there's a level of like deep.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, So I want to know what were you nervous
would happen? What would Keith do that you were nervous
of if you were to tell the truth to him.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It's what you're seeing right now. So after after the
details started to come out and I was arrested and
I was released from jail, my defense attorney had a
meeting with Keith and was trying to get him to
understand why we would be taking a plea agreement rather
than going to trial. And he let out a little
(18:53):
detail that about the burner phones that I had been
keeping secret from my ex husband and called me right
away and said sorry, I really I didn't mean to
do this, but he's on the way and he's pissed,
so please be careful. I don't really know what's going
to happen, but he's really upset. So I took my
(19:14):
phone when he showed up, I hit record, and I
split it under the bed. And what happened after that
was Keith said, Okay, here's what's going to happen. I
want you to sign all of these unfair agreements. I
want you to sign your rights away to your custody
and to all of the assets in our marriage. And
when you come out and when you're ready to sell
(19:35):
the story, I get control of it. So if you
sign this contract and you sign all of these agreements,
you can come home, but I'm in complete control of everything,
and you can live in the guest bedroom. And if
you apologize to me every day and I believe that
you've earned the right to our marriage, then you can
(19:56):
come in and we can rekindle our marriage. And at
that point, I was living with my sister in law already.
It was after my arrest, and I was preparing to
go to prison, and I was preparing to sign a
plea agreement, and I had finally gotten the strength to say, no,
I'm not doing that. I'm not going back home. I
now see what it feels like to be without you,
(20:18):
and that I'm going to survive. And I knew I
was going to prison, which was the safest that I
felt in sixteen years. And so I didn't sign. And
he threatened me and said, if you don't sign, then
I'm bringing the entire world down on your head, which
won't be hard, because you're Shery Peppini and everyone loves
(20:38):
me and I'm the hero and this is all I have.
It it's all recorded, and he says, if you don't
sign the agreement, you don't do what I want, I
will be taking your children from you, which won't be hard,
and I will completely obliterate your life, turn the media
on you, change your entire family's perspective on you. If
you sign this, I will lie for you. If you
(21:01):
sign this and come home and shut your mouth and
give me all the control, you'll have your kids and
you'll have everything. And I didn't sign it, and I
went to prison instead, and he did exactly what he
threatened to do. He's taken custody, full custody of my children.
He has absolutely everything. I lost my trial and the
divorce and the separation of assets because he had the
(21:22):
trial while I was in prison. He's ruined relationships in
my life and manipulated using my crime against me in
every way. So the post separation abuse that I'm experiencing
now you're seeing firsthand, and everything that he's threatened to do.
He did everything that I was afraid of happening. He's
(21:44):
done and continues to do.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Why did he create a post up? Because that's a
very that's not a common thing to have in a marriage,
especially a healthy marriage. I mean, if my husband slides
to me a post up, now, I'm like I gave
ax a post up when he was rehob right, That's why.
So I so the viewer side of this and this
is just me and I promise I actually have this
(22:08):
is I'm not on a side because they did to
me a very fair job of balancing you, and I
felt like the only thing that was a little imbalanced
is me getting a little more backstory, and like, why
Sherry is the way Sherry is. That's why I wanted
to lead with the question about your youth, because I
think it does determine so much of our older years.
But when someone is coming to you with a post up,
(22:32):
it's usually because there's already been some sort of something
that's a red flag to him, whether it's infidelity or
lying or something, and you signed it. So can you
expand on why there was one?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
What?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Because I because it's easy to divorce someone and get
all the assets when they're in prison. A But when
they're in prison and they've already signed off that they
can have everything, you can that he could literally have
everything because you've already agreed upon that legally before while
you were married.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Well, Puppini has changed his story quite a lot. So
when you see him in interrogation room, see him on
the stand in court, and see him in his documentary,
he says three different stories. So the first one is
that I was bad with money and he wanted to
make sure that he separated the assets because I was
bad with money. The second story is that he just
(23:23):
wanted to protect his own assets. And the third story
is that he caught me text messaging another man. So,
to be frank with you, I think the post nuptial
agreement was designed to continue to have to demonstrate a
level of control. Why he actually decided to do it.
(23:44):
I think it could be a myriad of reasons. When
you do a post nuptial agreement, generally you're supposed to
have dual representation, meaning a lawyer for him and a
lawyer for me, and I didn't get that. I didn't
have the opportunity to have my own representation, and so
the post nuptial agreement technically should be considered invalid. It
(24:06):
was drawn up by Keith himself, so it was a
pretty flimsy contract in general, and I didn't have the
option to not sign it. Not signing it meant I
had to get out, and I had to move out
of my home, and there wasn't a lot of I
didn't have a voice. I didn't get to say, okay,
well this is unfair. And and when it was created
(24:26):
it was prior to having kids, even it was never updated,
and it was a really unfair agreement that I didn't
have a lot of choice in.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Were you texting another guy? Though?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Was that truth?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I mean I there was no a built Yes I was,
but I was also texting females like there. It wasn't
about a guy, It was about not having friends that
he didn't have control over when we say emotional affair.
I was desperate to have an emotional connection with someone.
(25:04):
I was desperate to have conversation with someone. Didn't matter
to me. Whether it was a male or female. That
mattered to Keith. And it's not like I was able
to just go to Starbucks and make new friends or something.
I had an incredibly oppressive life, so it didn't matter
whether it was male or female. Everything had to be
run through him and it had to be vetted. So
(25:26):
regardless of whether it was a male, which was unacceptable
to him, if one of my girlfriends didn't meet a
level of status, if they were overweight, if they were gay,
if they were whatever Keith had on his list, I
was not allowed to be friends with them. So it's
not like his only issue was that I was texting men.
(25:48):
That's just part of the story.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
But the text messages found on the phone that was
left the day of the abduction were romantic in nature
with men.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
How do you hear that?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Well, So that's what the FBI said, I believe, wasn't
it They the police department. It's in one of those The.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Phone was never found. The FBI didn't.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
No, no, nor your cell phone, the one that was found.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I had the hair strand like perfectly curled up in
the year.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
It said that there was conversation. It was in one
of the interrogation like films of the police department's interview
with you. They talked about that there were numbers saved
in your phone that were but it had female names.
Female names were actually and romantic, which I did like that.
They noted that because not to throw you under the
(26:33):
bus it was. I liked that they noted that because
anybody could do that if you are in a controlling relationship.
Any man that texts you could be alarming to a
husband that is an abusive husband. But they said they
specifically they were romantic in nature. So there was more
than James.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, there was. There was, And you know, I think
it's really about where you judge that I did have
what's considered emotional affairs with another man when it's considered
romantic in nature, I think you really kind of have
to break down your level of degree there, because there's
(27:12):
also text messages from my girlfriends saying the exact same thing.
So if you were to send me a text message
this morning and say good morning, beautiful, it would be
the same thing as a text message from someone else
when you say romantic in nature, there's another tax thing.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think if someone texts my phone and says good morning,
beautiful and it's a man, I think that's crossing a line. Personally,
if my husband saw that, that would not be appropriate. Yeah,
you text me all the time good morning, Yeah, like
great love. But like I that's where I respectfully don't
see how that's the same thing.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I would say this. Is there a point, because Sherry,
you are still a human, so I promise you I
am being as objective as empathetic as I can be
for the whole story. Is there a point pre abduction
where you were like in over your head, exhausted. I mean,
this has to weigh on you too. We've got texts
(28:19):
coming in from guys. We're hiding them under girl names
for whatever reason. All of that is heavy. Sherry is
still a person and a mom at this place in
the story. I mean, you're still a person in a
mom but I mean pre abduction that is so heavy.
Is there a point ever where you're like, I just
(28:40):
want out of all of Like how do I get
out of all of this? Because that's a lot to
keep up with too, and you're seeking emotional and I
have been there at times, not in this marriage, previous
relationships where I have felt a little bit of that
(29:01):
and so, but I also just know the tax it
takes on a human body and your spirit and your mind,
and it's exhausting to keep up with all of that.
Is there a point where you're like, I just want
out of all Like, how do I get out of
all of this? And is that where this this James
situation comes in, where you are now entertaining the thought
(29:23):
of him, you guys being together and doing a trip
to northern or southern California? Is that the breaking point
for you or you? Like I just like, is anything
better than where I'm at?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I was incredibly miserable in my marriage at the time.
I was seeking so much more external validation than internal validation,
Like I really didn't understand.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And by the way, a lot of people can relate
to that, Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's like I
can relate to that. I can relate to that too,
Like if I had something in front of you my
last marriage, like, yeah, I almost you know, I probably
could have and especially the emotion of part so bad.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
That's why I relate on that that part. I think
I can relate to that a little bit, not to
the extent, but enough that I'm like, I see, and
then it starts to go too far, because these guys
are going to fall further fall in love with you.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I my marriage was falling apart already, and then I
had two children, and so I was incredibly miserable. I really,
I hadn't started therapy. Then I was incredibly emotionally immature
and very stented. And again with like the seeking the
(30:39):
external validation rather the internal validation. What I knew is
that I was really miserable and I didn't understand, frankly,
how to maturely cope with that. And there are a
lot of mistakes that I made and a lot of
regrets that I have. And you know, with the emotional affairs,
to me, they seemed safe and they see deemed less
(31:01):
than having a physical affair. I understand that differently now,
and I take full accountability for that. I really do
understand that. You know, it wasn't right to be having
an emotional affair. What would have been right would have
been ending my marriage rather than doing that. What would
have been right was understanding that I'm valuable and where
my value person as a person stands. But I was
(31:26):
always trying to find a plan. It's very complicated when
you have children. It's very complicated when you have someone,
when you're married to someone with the status that they
have in the town that you live in, and not
necessarily having a family support system that I had, having
been alienated from my parents as well, I didn't really
know where to go and where to turn with that,
(31:50):
and I did want to get out, and in terms
of my emotional affair with James, there was no plan
to go to southern California, and so starting my emotional
fair with James, to me, it felt safe because he
lived in southern California and there was no intention to
go anywhere with him. There was an intention to meet
up with him in town and to end that engagement
(32:12):
and to end because you're right, When you have an
emotional affairs, someone gets feelings and they get deeper feelings,
and that's what was happening. What was happening is James
wanted more than I was willing to give. For me,
it was just I just need a little text message.
I just need a little validation. I needed a little
bit of emotional connection, because I mean, my husband had
(32:32):
a rule that I wasn't even allowed to speak to
him past six o'clock at night. So it was like
I didn't have friends and I didn't have this. I
thought that getting married met you married your best friend,
and I thought that getting married was something completely different
than what I had experienced, And to me, having that
little bit of connection with somebody was really what I
(32:55):
needed and understanding it now, you know, it's really sad.
It's incredibly sad that I didn't have enough confidence and
I didn't have enough self respect to just be able
to walk away from the marriage and the courage that
it took to walk away from the marriage that I'm
doing now.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, And I think so many women can relate to
that piece of that, and we've all been in that well,
a lot of us have been in that situation where it's,
you know, where that we can relate to that. I
guess my final question is just, you know, because of
what happened and with James, are you now wanting to
(33:33):
seek because I did like with that. I don't know
if he was the DA or who he was an investigator,
but he basically was like, you know, she's going to
need a confession both verbally and written down from like
the wolf itself, because like she's the you know, the
girl who cried Wolf's like, you're going to need the
confession from the wolf actually saying I did X, Y,
and Z. Are you wanting to get actual proof of
(33:55):
what James did so so that you can be proven
telling the truth and that you're not lying again? Is
there even a world where there's possibility to get that
kind of proof from that.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
First and foremost in the story of the Girl that
Cried Wolf? The girl still gets very hurt in that story,
regardless of the crying of the wolf. And yes, it's
highly unlikely that we're going to get a written confession,
but there's I mean, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful James has
(34:31):
an ability to heal everybody in this story by coming forward.
He knows what he did. And in these other interviews
that I've had, one of the questions they ask is
are you afraid of defamation? And I'm not. I'm not
because we have that proof. You know, you say we
need the wolf's footprint. You literally have a photograph of
his footprint on my back. You have injuries that I
(34:52):
couldn't possibly do myself. And when you look at these
photographs of my body, you dismiss them because you think
I I did it to myself, or you think that
I gave permission to do it to myself. And I'm
saying that I didn't. And so we do have that proof.
And James knows what he did. He knows that, and
(35:12):
that's why I think he's not going to come forward
because he has no alibi for consent, He has no
proof of consent. He has proof, and he stated in
his interrogation videos that he did, in fact do this
to my body, and he participated in it, and he
didn't get even as little as a conspiracy charge. You know.
When I was in prison, I met women who had
(35:35):
no idea what was happening. They had no idea drug
deal was even happening, but they happened to be in
a car and they got six years in prison, you know.
And James has continued to demonstrate culpability in my case,
and I am the only one that caught the charge
with it, and I wanted to take accountability for the
(35:56):
lie that I created to conceal his identity, and I
do feel like I have done that. There are other
key players here though, and James, there's so much evidence
to what happened to my body that I couldn't possibly
do myself.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, I don't think that is was ever in question.
I think that was that for me asked him to
do that, Like I wouldn't think that you would do
that to yourself. It was that you asked and listen,
if that is the truth, like that is awful and
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that experience.
If that is you know, the your truth in it,
like that is terrible. As a domestic balance survivor, that
is awful and I'm so sorry that you were in
(36:33):
that situation. I think what is hard for people that
have you know, watched the stuff is going, okay, well
she lied once you know, is what is the truth? Now?
Bottom line is there's the truth and then there's the
actual truth, right like there's your truth, there's his truth,
then there's the actual truth. And if this is the truth,
(36:55):
like that is awful and I'm so sorry that you
went through that. Bottom line and that sucks that you'll
never be able to to get that and listen. We
have people that talk about us all the time and
be like, oh she did this, and it's like, no,
that's not true. But and you know, you can spend
the rest of your life trying to say, you know,
this is what's happened, but instead you're like, no, you know,
I know my truth. And now you've you know, you've
(37:15):
done your healing and you're working. I see now with
Tim's story, who's incredible.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
We love him.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
So you know to that, like, yes, you know, stand
in your truth and empower those and help those because
I do know the women that are afraid to get
out because of an abusive partner. So to that, you know,
I empathize with that piece of it, for sure, is.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
The freedom for you? And then I promise in Kingdon,
is the freedom for you? The truth? This truth seeking
in an attempt to get your kids back, because I
can imagine publicly, it's a very public thing that you're doing.
So the documentary obviously is public and I'm I wondered
if that was a way to lean into resources that
allow you to start to get some of these things
(37:58):
proven so that the goal is to just be back
with your kids. Is that what's happening because you don't
see you only get to talk to them once a week. Still,
is that correct? That's terrible. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I'm supposed to talk to them once a week, but
he doesn't tend to follow court orders, so at the moment,
I speak to them once a month.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
So if this, if this truth, your truth, is proven
to be the truth, does that give you some leverage
to be able to get your kids back? Is that
in your brain? Is this how everything starts to unlock.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I don't need leverage to get my kids back. My
charge was from a crime that was committed in twenty sixteen,
and as the courts have stated, we don't take children
away from lying. So I'm hopeful the reason why I
don't see if my children is because I went to prison.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
And you shouldn't though you know what I'm saying, Shure,
absolutely you shouldn't. You know, So, is there a world
where you get to have your kids back? This is
the part out of all the shary things. I really
went deep into Little Sherry because I resonated deeply there
and then I resonate with the fact that you're a
mother that doesn't get to see kids, and I can't
imagine that feeling.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Well, the trial. We have to have a trial. So
there's a process when you go through the family court system,
and it's it's a lengthy process. I'm sure you have
friends and family that have gone through family court. It's
it's really it's one of the hardest things that people
can go through. Is not just you know, when you
(39:28):
when you have an amical or breakup, you don't see
family court. So when you have healthy people and there's
not abuse and there's not toxicity, you don't see those
in family court. They just amicably split outside of court.
So generally, those that you see in the family court system,
it's evident that there's some kind of toxicity or some
kind of abuse happening, otherwise you wouldn't see them. So
(39:53):
the lengthy process of going through prison, getting out of prison,
starting the process of getting the trial, it's all taken time.
So the conclusion of my trial is in August, and
then I'm hopeful there will be a shift in custody.
It's because it's taken so long, there's going to need
to be like a step up program to reunify with
my children. But in terms of regaining my custody. I'm hopeful.
(40:18):
I don't think it's going to be a problem.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Okay, Well, fingers crossed for that, because as mama's I
can't even imagine, like literally cannot imagine that piece. And
I don't think courts should take kids away unless it's
obviously an abusive sord you know, actual situation. So danger, yeah, danger, Yeah,
Well I can't imagine. You know, I know you've got
(40:41):
a lot going on. You have what is you have
something else coming out right as well?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, I just read a book, okay.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
And that will there be more things in that that
are not that wasn't on the documentaries.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Oh toens. I mean, this is this is my my words,
and it's my story. It's my journey unedited without the
editing process and without the constraints of having to try
and bring somebody else's side on. For example, this is
just me and it's it's my entire adult life from
(41:18):
my marriage on you has been this self discovery for me,
this journey being steeped in therapy and understanding who I
am and the choices that I've made and where I've
come from, and understanding authentically who I am. So it's
I think it's quite a lot of just personal.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
About me, and that is the Scherry Peppinie doesn't exist,
a lie that defined me, the media that destroyed me,
and the truth that no one has heard.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
It is available now. Awesome. Thank you so much, Sherry.
Appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
All Right, Hi, Cherry, so I listen. I think it's
I think it's a tangled it's it's tangled that that's
her truth. That's a terrible I mean, I can't even
imagine being abducted. I think what's hard is the lie
in the beginning I had. I couldn't imagine lying to
an officer, you know, like when an officer came to
my place when the guy tried to kill me.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
It's like there it was word for war, because it's like,
so I'm going to say something that's a little this
isn't this has I have no degree in psychology at all.
I know what you'r. I know I knew where you
were always going with it, and I agree with that.
I just wanted to ask the question to her, but
I wasn't sure if we could get there with her.
In my brain there is a unhealed unjustified incident that
(42:36):
might have landed And I am not saying I believe her,
don't believe her. It's whatever that might have landed on
this James character. And the quest for justice is not
always is not solely about James the person. It is
about all of this retroactive stuff that happened to her
that never got clarity. Yeah, and I think no matter
(42:56):
who Sharey is now the forty three year old, and
I can resonate with a lot of peace of that,
there is a deep need for immediate mental and physical
support for children that go through any abuse period. And
I am passionate about that because it will change the
trajectory of their lives. So if they get nothing else
out of this media, that is what I hope they get. Amen,
(43:17):
one thousand percent couldn't agree with you more
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, So I gotta be honest, I'm having a
difficult time with this because as an interviewer, you should
have an unbiased opinion.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I believe. I believe that just interview somebody, yep.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I think that you should not come in with judgment,
not come in with preconceived opinions. And most of the time,
like you know, when we've had people like Whitney on
who was very much like she was the.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
How do we say that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Like the what would they call her on that the
first season of The Secret Antagonist? Yeah, and it's like
where we could go in and be like, oh, I
don't really know about her and we might feel it,
but you still want to be warm and kind and
give her the platform to be able to say what
she wants to say. Yeah, have her truth, her story.
(01:09):
And I feel like that should go. I mean, the
best people that I've seen interview, like a Barbara Walters,
you know, it's like they I don't feel like they ever.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
From what I.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Watched as a kid watching twenty twenty, I never really
saw them having judgment. I would agree, right, Okay, So
with this it's like, I know we're a podcast, but
we're still interviewing. Yeah, And I'm having a difficult time
with this. If I'm honest with you and.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
This, I really just want to go on the record
for saying that you and I watched this entire documentary,
but we have not spoken at all at all. We
have not about this. So I don't know how you're
entering this and you don't even have to tell me. Now,
I think my I think you'll be surprised.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Let me be honest, and I'll be I'll be straight
up honest with this, because again I'm teetering the line
between I listen, I am no Barbara Walters, Okay, I
have this podcast, and I think there's a difference between.
I think it's two things can be true at once, right,
So it's like, I have this podcast, and I have
my opinions about certain things, and I want to be
(02:21):
in to interview and give people the chance to have
their voices heard. Having said that, when I got this
request for this interview, I said, no, that was actually
going to be one of my questions to you. I said,
I don't want to have her on. Can I ask
why I don't believe her and it triggers something in
(02:43):
me to have someone that lies given something that is
freshly going on right now too. I have a and listen,
I have lied countless times in my past. I am
not by any means a saint or like I have
lie to people's faces. I've in my day back in
the day, like having said that I have, you know,
(03:09):
done my work and all the healing and all the things.
But when I when I kind of started to research
and then I watched the documentary, I was like, I
wondered if this would be hard for you because of that,
it triggers something post Mike Liars, I'm like, you're done.
(03:32):
You're done to me, You're dead to me, like you're
I just I can see right through what you're doing,
through the laugh, through the smile, like there's just And
then so much so that something has recently happened with
like a month or so ago, where this person was
straight up lying and I'm watching it happen. I'm like,
I know because I have proof, and you're lying through
(03:53):
your teeth right now. And it's like it then tended
to have people then to tended to be interviewing someone
that is a known liar.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
A federally accused and found guilty liar. I'm just like,
like lied to the FBI coming.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I don't want to sit in front of someone to
be lied to again like I did it for years.
I had someone lie to me for years to my face.
I'm done, Like, I don't want to. I don't want
to be like lied to. I feel that's my frustration
and I'm making basing it. No, No, I felt the
same thing. I started watching the documentary and I was like,
I don't even want to give this chick my time.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
But I will tell you. I think you'll be surprised
at some compassion I have found where with miss Sherry.
Really which piece you'll see?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, Well she's here, feed breaths, Let's
get her.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I'm good? How are you?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I am good? Cherry? We have a lot of questions.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
First, not the only one, so yeah, and first and foremost,
I just want to I'm curious because you know, obviously
we watched the documentary. What and from what I've been
told is that you didn't have editorial rights in piecing
that together. So I'm curious as let's take you out
of the equation, right, and you were a viewer sitting
(05:20):
on the couch watching this show, how how do you
think you were perceived in that and what as a
viewer would you be thinking watching it?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Well, I watched at the same time that everybody else
watched it, and that was absolutely terrifying because I had
no idea how the edits were going to come together.
I certainly knew what my interviews were like. It was
a year long process, and I knew what I had
gone through and the excruciating process that I went through
(05:54):
creating the film, but I had absolutely no idea how
it was going to be edited and my direction sure
that I worked with she continued to say, you know,
we are going to do something very balanced, right, And
so the primary objective of Sherry Pepini Cotton a Lie
was every time you had something that made me look good,
(06:16):
they had to balance it with something that would make
me look bad. For me, that's really scary because when
you go in with this negative bias of how I've
appeared online and the the reputation that I've had out there,
it already kind of tips the scales a little bit.
So it was pretty heartbreaking to watch for me to
(06:40):
watch how it came together. I'm proud of what I
contributed to it, and I'm proud of even the you know,
the moments that unfortunately are twisted or whatever, Like it's
still all me in there, and it's still incredibly vulnerable,
and I'm happy with what I can attributed to it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Do you feel like it was balanced?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Well, again, I think when you already go into something
with a level of negative bias, I think it generally
can tip the scales one way or another. But yeah,
I think so, Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I have Okay, So the one question that burns in
me is a pretty intimate and it's a pretty heavy one.
So I don't know how. I guess you can just
say pass if you prefer not to, but I know,
don't brace yourself. I'm a kind human, so I'm like
the I'm not one that's going to like attack, so
(07:38):
the compassion part of me. So I watched the whole thing,
and I felt like there was a part that they
maybe didn't give enough time to, and that would be
the childhood trauma piece and the sexual assault in your
early I know you said early double digits, so maybe
(08:00):
ten eleven, twelve, and so my question because I think
that this deserves a little space because it sets a
tone for all of your life, in my opinion, and
I have childhood trauma as well. It is not as
significant is something as that, but I know how it
has shaped me. The way I see things, the way
I do things, the justice I seek, my inability to
(08:22):
tolerate liars. That's no offense to our present guest, but
there is things that trigger me because of the way
I grew up. Do you feel like there was justice
in the sexual assault that happened to you early on,
because in the way the film is telling the story,
it was kind of swept under the rug. It felt
like this family never talked about it, which I would say,
(08:44):
we're the same age, so I would say that that
generation of parenting is pretty good at sweeping and not
identifying and not really digging in. But I am now,
I'm a mother of a nine year old, and I
can't imagine that I am in your father's place and
I walk in, as it's told on the documentary, he
(09:05):
walks in to find this person sexually assaulting his daughter,
and then there's not some sort of really deep dive
into you as a human and as a little girl,
little Sherry, and we're not working through that. So do
you feel is there any parts of those stories that
you want to retell? I don't want to make you
live a trauma, So that's why I'm careful in the
(09:26):
way I'm wording this. But I'm really super interested in
the non resolution that you got out of that maybe,
and how that could further shape all of these events
that now all of America is involved in.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I would say, for me, certainly, the bravery that it
took for my parents to even speak about that, to
feel comfortable coming out and being able to share that
very deeply rooted family secret, that a significant amount of
healing happened. So after I got out of prison and
(10:01):
I moved back in with my mom and dad, you know,
we were able to have family dinner every night, we
were able to really dig very deep into therapy together,
and this beautiful healing, blossoming relationship occurred. And to me,
that's really what I've always desired and what I've always needed.
(10:28):
Coming out in a film that's going to be seen
by millions of people, and my parents being willing to
speak on what happened to me, that's it's pretty incredible.
It's pretty incredible because there's you know, certainly with my dad,
he's carried around this tremendous guilt and this tremendous shame.
(10:49):
Because we're older, it's not like there's anything that we
even can do about it other than heal talk about it.
He's given me a tre tremendous amount of grace with
how it happened and the sweeping it under the rug
and not talking about it when we were that age.
We're talking about it now though, and it's become quite
(11:12):
a comfortable conversation with my parents, and I'm really I'm
really happy with the relationship that I have with the
trauma now.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I know that this is kind of a hindsight question,
so this may not be something you can even answer,
but one of the psychologists in the film talks about
how if that trauma, that trauma was not dealt with
appropriately at the time, and how that does and we
all know that just from existing in the world, if
little Sherry was to get the treatment she needed and
the healing and the emotional and mental support at the
(11:47):
time of that incident, do you think that shapes who
you are now differently? And do we think that we
even know who you are, because in my brain, I
don't even think we know who you are if you
had gotten the support at that time that you should
have gotten and is that I you know?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And the thing too, to add on to that, it's
like your friends from school were saying, you know, she
was always saying she was going to leave and then
make up lies and she was always lying about about stuff.
Do you think those lies came because of that on
field trauma?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Well, I think when the news story broke and everything
came out, everyone wanted to jump on the bandwagon. So
you know, you went to middle school, you went to
high school. We weren't friends with everybody that we met.
We weren't friends with everyone that we interacted with in school,
and so when you have AM it's kind of like
(12:40):
confirmation bias. Right. So, if this is a particular story,
if I have something that I want to talk about
that's in the avenue of the story, I'm going to
call and talk about what I have that contributes to
the story. There's so much more to my life and
there's so much more to the depth of my relationships.
But it's like when they pick out certain things just
(13:01):
to fixate on this one issue that I had. It
makes it really difficult because it's like there's other people
in my life that I've had these exceptional relationships with,
or even tumultuous tumultuous relationships with, and some of these
people that came forward like they've done really terrible things
(13:25):
and they are really horrible people, and now I have
to come back and I have to be able to
clean it up. And you know, there's a great example
is there's an ex boyfriend that went on and said, oh,
she just likes to make up stories. And I'm like,
you were cheating on your fiance and I didn't even
know you were engaged, and yet you're being brought up
in these news stories about me without evidence and just
(13:49):
trying to trash me, when it's like your life is
so incredibly horrific in and out of itself. So it's
it's really I feel so mean girled all the time,
and I feel so picked on all the time by
these people who are just getting up and giving their
opinion without even providing evidence of it. It's just like
(14:09):
rumor after rumor after rumor, and I've continued to try
and demonstrate my remorse and my accountability for what I've done.
But I'm done taking too much accountability and i am
done trying to continue to defend myself when people come
out with things that are just not true about me.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think, honestly my interaction and watching it, I still
was just having the hardest time trying to understand why
the lie in the beginning. And I'm still kind of
confused on that piece because I'm like, if I and
I get, you know, to an extent, some of the
stuff you were talking about, but it's like, if I
(15:04):
knew I was gonna, did you have I guess I'm
just I guess I'm just confused. I guess I'm just
lost on why why even lie? Make up this thing?
Because I'm like, you make up a lie because you're
trying to cover a shame piece. You're trying to cover
up something that's That's when I lied. I lied to
an ext boyfriend that I cheated on because I didn't
want him to know the truth that I that I cheated,
you know, and I made up this elaborate lie to
(15:26):
cover up my own shame stuff. And so you know,
that was what back in my twenties. But still it's
like with this situation. It's like I still just don't
understand why, Like I just I don't know if I
I just don't understand that. I don't. I don't understand
where the lie even started. It was like a bad
(15:48):
plan gone wrong, like did because obviously you were texting
with this guy. I know you said it led to
something else, but there's it's just doesn't something about it
just I don't. It doesn't make sense. And I think
that's maybe why other people don't believe the story, because
it doesn't. It's hard to make sense of it.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
The narrative that's out there prior to me coming forward
is the part that doesn't make sense. I think now
that I've come forward, and now that I'm able to
be able to speak on what happened, it tracks and
it aligns and it fills in all of the gaps
of the why and the confusion. And are you talking
(16:24):
about the Hulu documentary that you watched or the HBO documentary? Okay,
So for me, you know, I was carrying on this
emotional affair and I got in over my head and
was in a very dangerous situation, and then coming out
of it and going back home, I was too afraid
to tell my ex husband that I was having an
(16:47):
emotional affair, and the story that was made up to
cover up his identity, And that's all my story is.
I've always maintained that I was kidnapped and tortured and brutalized,
always continue to say that that is what happened. I
was just too afraid to come out and talk about
his identity. I was too afraid because James was watching.
(17:09):
I was afraid because I had already lied to law enforcement,
and I was terrified to tell my ex husband that
I was having an emotional affair. Because what you see
is happening right now. There's bits and pieces and details
of my marriage that are starting to come out now,
particularly starting with the documentary of the coercive control and
(17:30):
the abuse that I was suffering in my marriage. And
that's really all it was. I got into a dangerous
situation and I was too afraid to tell my ex
husband that I was having an emotional affair. And now
I'm not married anymore, and I'm not ashamed anymore, and
I've taken accountability for what I've done, and so I'm
(17:50):
able to very clearly talk about what happened, and why
the lie was created, and how I'm picking up the
pieces and rebuilding my life and moving forward from what happened.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
What were you afraid Keith would do if you told
him the truth before this abduction, if you were to
just come because there's burner phones involved, So this is
next level, sister. We got to be honest. Like I've
we're in the music industry, We've seen some shady things,
but like the burner.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Phone was a sex addict, so he had the burner phones.
Like there's a level of like deep.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, So I want to know what were you nervous
would happen? What would Keith do that you were nervous
of if you were to tell the truth to him.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It's what you're seeing right now. So after after the
details started to come out and I was arrested and
I was released from jail, my defense attorney had a
meeting with Keith and was trying to get him to
understand why we would be taking a plea agreement rather
than going to trial. And he let out a little
(18:53):
detail that about the burner phones that I had been
keeping secret from my ex husband and called me right
away and said sorry, I really I didn't mean to
do this, but he's on the way and he's pissed,
so please be careful. I don't really know what's going
to happen, but he's really upset. So I took my
(19:14):
phone when he showed up, I hit record, and I
split it under the bed. And what happened after that
was Keith said, Okay, here's what's going to happen. I
want you to sign all of these unfair agreements. I
want you to sign your rights away to your custody
and to all of the assets in our marriage. And
when you come out and when you're ready to sell
(19:35):
the story, I get control of it. So if you
sign this contract and you sign all of these agreements,
you can come home, but I'm in complete control of everything,
and you can live in the guest bedroom. And if
you apologize to me every day and I believe that
you've earned the right to our marriage, then you can
(19:56):
come in and we can rekindle our marriage. And at
that point, I was living with my sister in law already.
It was after my arrest, and I was preparing to
go to prison, and I was preparing to sign a
plea agreement, and I had finally gotten the strength to say, no,
I'm not doing that. I'm not going back home. I
now see what it feels like to be without you,
(20:18):
and that I'm going to survive. And I knew I
was going to prison, which was the safest that I
felt in sixteen years. And so I didn't sign. And
he threatened me and said, if you don't sign, then
I'm bringing the entire world down on your head, which
won't be hard, because you're Shery Peppini and everyone loves
(20:38):
me and I'm the hero and this is all I have.
It it's all recorded, and he says, if you don't
sign the agreement, you don't do what I want, I
will be taking your children from you, which won't be hard,
and I will completely obliterate your life, turn the media
on you, change your entire family's perspective on you. If
you sign this, I will lie for you. If you
(21:01):
sign this and come home and shut your mouth and
give me all the control, you'll have your kids and
you'll have everything. And I didn't sign it, and I
went to prison instead, and he did exactly what he
threatened to do. He's taken custody, full custody of my children.
He has absolutely everything. I lost my trial and the
divorce and the separation of assets because he had the
(21:22):
trial while I was in prison. He's ruined relationships in
my life and manipulated using my crime against me in
every way. So the post separation abuse that I'm experiencing
now you're seeing firsthand, and everything that he's threatened to do.
He did everything that I was afraid of happening. He's
(21:44):
done and continues to do.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Why did he create a post up? Because that's a
very that's not a common thing to have in a marriage,
especially a healthy marriage. I mean, if my husband slides
to me a post up, now, I'm like I gave
ax a post up when he was rehob right, That's why.
So I so the viewer side of this and this
is just me and I promise I actually have this
(22:08):
is I'm not on a side because they did to
me a very fair job of balancing you, and I
felt like the only thing that was a little imbalanced
is me getting a little more backstory, and like, why
Sherry is the way Sherry is. That's why I wanted
to lead with the question about your youth, because I
think it does determine so much of our older years.
But when someone is coming to you with a post up,
(22:32):
it's usually because there's already been some sort of something
that's a red flag to him, whether it's infidelity or
lying or something, and you signed it. So can you
expand on why there was one?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
What?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Because I because it's easy to divorce someone and get
all the assets when they're in prison. A But when
they're in prison and they've already signed off that they
can have everything, you can that he could literally have
everything because you've already agreed upon that legally before while
you were married.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Well, Puppini has changed his story quite a lot. So
when you see him in interrogation room, see him on
the stand in court, and see him in his documentary,
he says three different stories. So the first one is
that I was bad with money and he wanted to
make sure that he separated the assets because I was
bad with money. The second story is that he just
(23:23):
wanted to protect his own assets. And the third story
is that he caught me text messaging another man. So,
to be frank with you, I think the post nuptial
agreement was designed to continue to have to demonstrate a
level of control. Why he actually decided to do it.
(23:44):
I think it could be a myriad of reasons. When
you do a post nuptial agreement, generally you're supposed to
have dual representation, meaning a lawyer for him and a
lawyer for me, and I didn't get that. I didn't
have the opportunity to have my own representation, and so
the post nuptial agreement technically should be considered invalid. It
(24:06):
was drawn up by Keith himself, so it was a
pretty flimsy contract in general, and I didn't have the
option to not sign it. Not signing it meant I
had to get out, and I had to move out
of my home, and there wasn't a lot of I
didn't have a voice. I didn't get to say, okay,
well this is unfair. And and when it was created
(24:26):
it was prior to having kids, even it was never updated,
and it was a really unfair agreement that I didn't
have a lot of choice in.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Were you texting another guy? Though?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Was that truth?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I mean I there was no a built Yes I was,
but I was also texting females like there. It wasn't
about a guy, It was about not having friends that
he didn't have control over when we say emotional affair.
I was desperate to have an emotional connection with someone.
(25:04):
I was desperate to have conversation with someone. Didn't matter
to me. Whether it was a male or female. That
mattered to Keith. And it's not like I was able
to just go to Starbucks and make new friends or something.
I had an incredibly oppressive life, so it didn't matter
whether it was male or female. Everything had to be
run through him and it had to be vetted. So
(25:26):
regardless of whether it was a male, which was unacceptable
to him, if one of my girlfriends didn't meet a
level of status, if they were overweight, if they were gay,
if they were whatever Keith had on his list, I
was not allowed to be friends with them. So it's
not like his only issue was that I was texting men.
(25:48):
That's just part of the story.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
But the text messages found on the phone that was
left the day of the abduction were romantic in nature
with men.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
How do you hear that?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Well, So that's what the FBI said, I believe, wasn't
it They the police department. It's in one of those The.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Phone was never found. The FBI didn't.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
No, no, nor your cell phone, the one that was found.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I had the hair strand like perfectly curled up in
the year.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
It said that there was conversation. It was in one
of the interrogation like films of the police department's interview
with you. They talked about that there were numbers saved
in your phone that were but it had female names.
Female names were actually and romantic, which I did like that.
They noted that because not to throw you under the
(26:33):
bus it was. I liked that they noted that because
anybody could do that if you are in a controlling relationship.
Any man that texts you could be alarming to a
husband that is an abusive husband. But they said they
specifically they were romantic in nature. So there was more
than James.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, there was. There was, And you know, I think
it's really about where you judge that I did have
what's considered emotional affairs with another man when it's considered
romantic in nature, I think you really kind of have
to break down your level of degree there, because there's
(27:12):
also text messages from my girlfriends saying the exact same thing.
So if you were to send me a text message
this morning and say good morning, beautiful, it would be
the same thing as a text message from someone else
when you say romantic in nature, there's another tax thing.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think if someone texts my phone and says good morning,
beautiful and it's a man, I think that's crossing a line. Personally,
if my husband saw that, that would not be appropriate. Yeah,
you text me all the time good morning, Yeah, like
great love. But like I that's where I respectfully don't
see how that's the same thing.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I would say this. Is there a point, because Sherry,
you are still a human, so I promise you I
am being as objective as empathetic as I can be
for the whole story. Is there a point pre abduction
where you were like in over your head, exhausted. I mean,
this has to weigh on you too. We've got texts
(28:19):
coming in from guys. We're hiding them under girl names
for whatever reason. All of that is heavy. Sherry is
still a person and a mom at this place in
the story. I mean, you're still a person in a
mom but I mean pre abduction that is so heavy.
Is there a point ever where you're like, I just
(28:40):
want out of all of Like how do I get
out of all of this? Because that's a lot to
keep up with too, and you're seeking emotional and I
have been there at times, not in this marriage, previous
relationships where I have felt a little bit of that
(29:01):
and so, but I also just know the tax it
takes on a human body and your spirit and your mind,
and it's exhausting to keep up with all of that.
Is there a point where you're like, I just want
out of all Like, how do I get out of
all of this? And is that where this this James
situation comes in, where you are now entertaining the thought
(29:23):
of him, you guys being together and doing a trip
to northern or southern California? Is that the breaking point
for you or you? Like I just like, is anything
better than where I'm at?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I was incredibly miserable in my marriage at the time.
I was seeking so much more external validation than internal validation,
Like I really didn't understand.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And by the way, a lot of people can relate
to that, Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's like I
can relate to that. I can relate to that too,
Like if I had something in front of you my
last marriage, like, yeah, I almost you know, I probably
could have and especially the emotion of part so bad.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
That's why I relate on that that part. I think
I can relate to that a little bit, not to
the extent, but enough that I'm like, I see, and
then it starts to go too far, because these guys
are going to fall further fall in love with you.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I my marriage was falling apart already, and then I
had two children, and so I was incredibly miserable. I really,
I hadn't started therapy. Then I was incredibly emotionally immature
and very stented. And again with like the seeking the
(30:39):
external validation rather the internal validation. What I knew is
that I was really miserable and I didn't understand, frankly,
how to maturely cope with that. And there are a
lot of mistakes that I made and a lot of
regrets that I have. And you know, with the emotional affairs,
to me, they seemed safe and they see deemed less
(31:01):
than having a physical affair. I understand that differently now,
and I take full accountability for that. I really do
understand that. You know, it wasn't right to be having
an emotional affair. What would have been right would have
been ending my marriage rather than doing that. What would
have been right was understanding that I'm valuable and where
my value person as a person stands. But I was
(31:26):
always trying to find a plan. It's very complicated when
you have children. It's very complicated when you have someone,
when you're married to someone with the status that they
have in the town that you live in, and not
necessarily having a family support system that I had, having
been alienated from my parents as well, I didn't really
know where to go and where to turn with that,
(31:50):
and I did want to get out, and in terms
of my emotional affair with James, there was no plan
to go to southern California, and so starting my emotional
fair with James, to me, it felt safe because he
lived in southern California and there was no intention to
go anywhere with him. There was an intention to meet
up with him in town and to end that engagement
(32:12):
and to end because you're right, When you have an
emotional affairs, someone gets feelings and they get deeper feelings,
and that's what was happening. What was happening is James
wanted more than I was willing to give. For me,
it was just I just need a little text message.
I just need a little validation. I needed a little
bit of emotional connection, because I mean, my husband had
(32:32):
a rule that I wasn't even allowed to speak to
him past six o'clock at night. So it was like
I didn't have friends and I didn't have this. I
thought that getting married met you married your best friend,
and I thought that getting married was something completely different
than what I had experienced, And to me, having that
little bit of connection with somebody was really what I
(32:55):
needed and understanding it now, you know, it's really sad.
It's incredibly sad that I didn't have enough confidence and
I didn't have enough self respect to just be able
to walk away from the marriage and the courage that
it took to walk away from the marriage that I'm
doing now.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, And I think so many women can relate to
that piece of that, and we've all been in that well,
a lot of us have been in that situation where it's,
you know, where that we can relate to that. I
guess my final question is just, you know, because of
what happened and with James, are you now wanting to
(33:33):
seek because I did like with that. I don't know
if he was the DA or who he was an investigator,
but he basically was like, you know, she's going to
need a confession both verbally and written down from like
the wolf itself, because like she's the you know, the
girl who cried Wolf's like, you're going to need the
confession from the wolf actually saying I did X, Y,
and Z. Are you wanting to get actual proof of
(33:55):
what James did so so that you can be proven
telling the truth and that you're not lying again? Is
there even a world where there's possibility to get that
kind of proof from that.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
First and foremost in the story of the Girl that
Cried Wolf? The girl still gets very hurt in that story,
regardless of the crying of the wolf. And yes, it's
highly unlikely that we're going to get a written confession,
but there's I mean, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful James has
(34:31):
an ability to heal everybody in this story by coming forward.
He knows what he did. And in these other interviews
that I've had, one of the questions they ask is
are you afraid of defamation? And I'm not. I'm not
because we have that proof. You know, you say we
need the wolf's footprint. You literally have a photograph of
his footprint on my back. You have injuries that I
(34:52):
couldn't possibly do myself. And when you look at these
photographs of my body, you dismiss them because you think
I I did it to myself, or you think that
I gave permission to do it to myself. And I'm
saying that I didn't. And so we do have that proof.
And James knows what he did. He knows that, and
(35:12):
that's why I think he's not going to come forward
because he has no alibi for consent, He has no
proof of consent. He has proof, and he stated in
his interrogation videos that he did, in fact do this
to my body, and he participated in it, and he
didn't get even as little as a conspiracy charge. You know.
When I was in prison, I met women who had
(35:35):
no idea what was happening. They had no idea drug
deal was even happening, but they happened to be in
a car and they got six years in prison, you know.
And James has continued to demonstrate culpability in my case,
and I am the only one that caught the charge
with it, and I wanted to take accountability for the
(35:56):
lie that I created to conceal his identity, and I
do feel like I have done that. There are other
key players here though, and James, there's so much evidence
to what happened to my body that I couldn't possibly
do myself.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, I don't think that is was ever in question.
I think that was that for me asked him to
do that, Like I wouldn't think that you would do
that to yourself. It was that you asked and listen,
if that is the truth, like that is awful and
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that experience.
If that is you know, the your truth in it,
like that is terrible. As a domestic balance survivor, that
is awful and I'm so sorry that you were in
(36:33):
that situation. I think what is hard for people that
have you know, watched the stuff is going, okay, well
she lied once you know, is what is the truth? Now?
Bottom line is there's the truth and then there's the
actual truth, right like there's your truth, there's his truth,
then there's the actual truth. And if this is the truth,
(36:55):
like that is awful and I'm so sorry that you
went through that. Bottom line and that sucks that you'll
never be able to to get that and listen. We
have people that talk about us all the time and
be like, oh she did this, and it's like, no,
that's not true. But and you know, you can spend
the rest of your life trying to say, you know,
this is what's happened, but instead you're like, no, you know,
I know my truth. And now you've you know, you've
(37:15):
done your healing and you're working. I see now with
Tim's story, who's incredible.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
We love him.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
So you know to that, like, yes, you know, stand
in your truth and empower those and help those because
I do know the women that are afraid to get
out because of an abusive partner. So to that, you know,
I empathize with that piece of it, for sure, is.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
The freedom for you? And then I promise in Kingdon,
is the freedom for you? The truth? This truth seeking
in an attempt to get your kids back, because I
can imagine publicly, it's a very public thing that you're doing.
So the documentary obviously is public and I'm I wondered
if that was a way to lean into resources that
allow you to start to get some of these things
(37:58):
proven so that the goal is to just be back
with your kids. Is that what's happening because you don't
see you only get to talk to them once a week. Still,
is that correct? That's terrible. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I'm supposed to talk to them once a week, but
he doesn't tend to follow court orders, so at the moment,
I speak to them once a month.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
So if this, if this truth, your truth, is proven
to be the truth, does that give you some leverage
to be able to get your kids back? Is that
in your brain? Is this how everything starts to unlock.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I don't need leverage to get my kids back. My
charge was from a crime that was committed in twenty sixteen,
and as the courts have stated, we don't take children
away from lying. So I'm hopeful the reason why I
don't see if my children is because I went to prison.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
And you shouldn't though you know what I'm saying, Shure,
absolutely you shouldn't. You know, So, is there a world
where you get to have your kids back? This is
the part out of all the shary things. I really
went deep into Little Sherry because I resonated deeply there
and then I resonate with the fact that you're a
mother that doesn't get to see kids, and I can't
imagine that feeling.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Well, the trial. We have to have a trial. So
there's a process when you go through the family court system,
and it's it's a lengthy process. I'm sure you have
friends and family that have gone through family court. It's
it's really it's one of the hardest things that people
can go through. Is not just you know, when you
(39:28):
when you have an amical or breakup, you don't see
family court. So when you have healthy people and there's
not abuse and there's not toxicity, you don't see those
in family court. They just amicably split outside of court.
So generally, those that you see in the family court system,
it's evident that there's some kind of toxicity or some
kind of abuse happening, otherwise you wouldn't see them. So
(39:53):
the lengthy process of going through prison, getting out of prison,
starting the process of getting the trial, it's all taken time.
So the conclusion of my trial is in August, and
then I'm hopeful there will be a shift in custody.
It's because it's taken so long, there's going to need
to be like a step up program to reunify with
my children. But in terms of regaining my custody. I'm hopeful.
(40:18):
I don't think it's going to be a problem.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Okay, Well, fingers crossed for that, because as mama's I
can't even imagine, like literally cannot imagine that piece. And
I don't think courts should take kids away unless it's
obviously an abusive sord you know, actual situation. So danger, yeah, danger, Yeah,
Well I can't imagine. You know, I know you've got
(40:41):
a lot going on. You have what is you have
something else coming out right as well?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, I just read a book, okay.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
And that will there be more things in that that
are not that wasn't on the documentaries.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Oh toens. I mean, this is this is my my words,
and it's my story. It's my journey unedited without the
editing process and without the constraints of having to try
and bring somebody else's side on. For example, this is
just me and it's it's my entire adult life from
(41:18):
my marriage on you has been this self discovery for me,
this journey being steeped in therapy and understanding who I
am and the choices that I've made and where I've
come from, and understanding authentically who I am. So it's
I think it's quite a lot of just personal.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
About me, and that is the Scherry Peppinie doesn't exist,
a lie that defined me, the media that destroyed me,
and the truth that no one has heard.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
It is available now. Awesome. Thank you so much, Sherry.
Appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
All Right, Hi, Cherry, so I listen. I think it's
I think it's a tangled it's it's tangled that that's
her truth. That's a terrible I mean, I can't even
imagine being abducted. I think what's hard is the lie
in the beginning I had. I couldn't imagine lying to
an officer, you know, like when an officer came to
my place when the guy tried to kill me.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
It's like there it was word for war, because it's like,
so I'm going to say something that's a little this
isn't this has I have no degree in psychology at all.
I know what you'r. I know I knew where you
were always going with it, and I agree with that.
I just wanted to ask the question to her, but
I wasn't sure if we could get there with her.
In my brain there is a unhealed unjustified incident that
(42:36):
might have landed And I am not saying I believe her,
don't believe her. It's whatever that might have landed on
this James character. And the quest for justice is not
always is not solely about James the person. It is
about all of this retroactive stuff that happened to her
that never got clarity. Yeah, and I think no matter
(42:56):
who Sharey is now the forty three year old, and
I can resonate with a lot of peace of that,
there is a deep need for immediate mental and physical
support for children that go through any abuse period. And
I am passionate about that because it will change the
trajectory of their lives. So if they get nothing else
out of this media, that is what I hope they get. Amen,
(43:17):
one thousand percent couldn't agree with you more
Host
Jana Kramer
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