May 7, 2025 • 29 mins
Jennie Garth is explaining why you NEED a divorce coach!
Divorce coach, Samantha Boss, is breaking down why a coach is vital in a high-conflict divorce, and why you should hire one BEFORE you hire an attorney!
What does playing bingo have to do with getting divorced? Samantha will explain!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome back to I Do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm one of your hosts, Jenny Garth, and today I
wanted to bring in a guest to talk about something
that I've never even heard of before.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You guys.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
She is a divorce coach and a certified divorce mediator.
She has been at this for over ten years. I
love her TikTok, and she is the co host of
her own podcast, Divorce with Sam and Leah. I can't
wait to talk with Samantha Boss Samantha. What the heck
is a divorce coach?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
A game changer, a lifesaver, a financial saver? Well, okay,
I mean it's a little bit of like we're the
catchup all trades. It just kind of depends on what
your case needs and what I'm finding my clients need.
They're typically a high conflict divorce, meaning it's not going well,
court is dragging out, co parenting's not starting off on
(01:06):
the right foot. And they're usually women that have been
in some type of toxic, abusive relationship and they don't
know themselves yet because they were not happy in the marriage,
and then they're going divorce, but there's this trial period
where they're like segueing from the abuse to independence, and
that's when all the decisions happen.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, even if you're not abused per se, like you've
just been in this situation that wasn't serving.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You and you come out and you don't even know
which ways up.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So my only question really for this entire interview is
why weren't you there when I needed you?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Why wasn't I round when I was going? I mean,
my divorce lasted forever. That's what everybody says when they
meet me and they catch the vibe and they know
what services I can offer, and it's like, where were you?
Where were you? You know I found you too late?
Where were you two years ago? You know I wasn't
on your feed yet.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Now I want to know what is it specifically that
you do here?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, my specialty and my bread and butter, which I
just I could sit on stage and talk for hours about,
is parenting plans, because that's where mine went wrong. Parenting plan,
you know, customizing them, making sure they're detailed, making sure
they're protecting you and not you know, leaving a bunch
of gray area for a high conflict personality to take
over you. Getting your parenting plan all the way from
(02:22):
diapers to diploma. So I customize parenting plans for people
because when you again, you're in that middle phase. You
were married and you want to be single parent, but
you're in this phase of decision making and you just
don't know. You know, if you're divorcing with kids that
are two, three, five, seven years old, you're raising kids
for the first time. You don't know what's ahead even
in a good situation, let alone you know a situation
(02:44):
where you're not getting along with your co parent now.
So I customize those parenting plans. I get you wherever
you're at with your kids, whatever age the youngest is,
and I get you all the way to high school,
and I cover everything that you can think of from education, extracurricular, religion,
and medical and everything in between. And we covered all.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You sound like an expert. I to really love this conversation.
I want to know, though, about your journey, because you know,
there's yeah, there's nothing I love more than when you
work with someone who has actually walked the same path
that you've walked. And you were in a high conflict
divorce situation and ended up being taking a lot of
(03:23):
years probably off of your life and a lot of
money out of your account.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, And so as I was going through that, I
was highly educated. I came from a good family. I
was the first person to get divorced, and so there
was a lot of shame and guilt of like, why
couldn't I make this work? So I went into it
acting like I was fine. So I hired a really
good attorney. I was fine. I had a good, good attorney,
so I thought, you know, and as I was going
through this process, because it was taking so long, people
(03:49):
friends and family started asking me questions as they went
through a divorce, and I kept on teaching because I
was an educator at the time. And I went through
My divorce took about four years, and we were in
court another four years after that over petty stuff that
we just you know, couldn't help ourselves. We love the courtroom.
And as I was going through that and helping friends
and family, I realized like my true passion was correcting
my mistake. I felt joy when I helped people. I
(04:11):
felt like, Okay, don't do that because that's what I did.
You know, don't answer it that way, because that's what
I did. And it was a lot of healing in
that and then when I met my now husband, Jared,
he was like, why don't you quit teaching kids and
teach adults about divorce? And at first I was like,
you are absolutely insane, Like who would pay me to
help them? You know? And he's like, people call you
(04:31):
every day like people, and you're doing it for free.
And there it went, and he just said, hey, why
don't you become a mediator? So I did that at first,
and I was getting couples all the time and that
was great, but it wasn't my story. My story. We
didn't work out a mediation, we did not get along.
So I wanted to help me, the former me. So
then I just started helping one client at a time
(04:53):
and that's when it just it clicked. It felt right,
and education is my number one objective. I just want
people to know what's ahead and to know what their
options are. I just don't think you get told because
you're talking to a high priced attorney what your options are.
So then that's how my business just evolved. I kind
of I say that I've pivoted no less than nine
(05:13):
times in my business because I'm trying to fit exactly
what the former me needed and I needed support, and
I needed an education and I needed somebody to say
do this instead of just winging it and hoping that
it was going to work.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
If you're getting me all fired up over here, I'm
getting a little angry because I didn't have anybody like you,
and I was winging it.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Nobody told me anything.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I didn't have any kind of knowledge of what anybody
was talking about, sort as like legal terms and yes.
And I committed to things that I would not have
committed to if I had known what I was committing to.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, well, I think people have a good heart. There's
always one person in the divorce that has a good heart,
has good intentions and once to co parent and once
to work with the other and will put the kids first.
But when you're met with resistance and bitterness and angry
and just hatred the stuff that you agree to, you're like, Okay,
well it'll get better and they'll come around and it'll
(06:12):
work out right now. And that's what your lawyer sometimes
tells you is, hey, don't worry about it, Jenny Wine,
the ink dries, it's going to go smoother. Eighteen years
Mine was a bumpy, twisty, windy road that never got smooth,
and so I think that's where I think people's expectations.
They go into it different and it stays different, and
it's not going to go back healed for everybody the
(06:32):
way you see on TV, or you see your friends
across the street hell their neighbors and they still do
Christmas together, and that's great for them. But that's not everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
That's not everybody. I've been on both sides of that river. Yeah,
spent a lot of time angry and mad and bitter
and resentful and all the things. And I just reached
a point in my personal life where I thought, oh
my god, this is bringing me down. It's bringing me
down mentally, it's bringing me down physically. Look in the mirror,
I don't like what who's looking back at me, Honne.
(07:04):
And I needed to like take charge of, like flipping
the conversation in my own head so that I could
come at it from a different way.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Well, that was the only thing that's going to change.
And I think anybody listening that's going through a high
conflict co parenting journey or even divorce, the only thing
you have control over is your own journey. You don't
have control over the other house. Or the other attorney,
or what your ex is doing, or how they're parenting
at their house. The only thing you can control is
how you interpret information, how you receive it, and how
(07:35):
it comes out of you, you know, when you want
to go back and talk and have a conversation. And
I think too many of us are trying to control
another house or have input about the other house, or
care too much.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Oh my god, I wasted so much time trying to
like know, because I mean, that's brutal, Like you know,
for me, I was everything. My kids were everything, and
three little girls, and I giving up basically my life,
my identity and become so much of a mom to
these three girls. And I loved every second of it.
(08:06):
So I wasn't like sad about that at the time.
But when they did leave, I was like, oh my god.
I text him, I call him. I try to make
sure that their safety is this and they're eating that,
and that they know they have their bags packed the
proper way like, and all I got was like, click,
hang up, no, text back, stay out of it. You
(08:28):
don't belong here, there's no place for you. Don't worry
about us. I've got it covered. All the things and
those all those things would just make me so much
angrier until I did come to terms with the fact
that I don't get to have any say in my
daughters once they leave my door.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yes, and that is a very and I think that's
why women stay too long, you know, or just anybody
stays too long in the marriage. But yeah, it's a
big pill to swallow. The first couple of weekends they're gone,
seeing them show up somewhere and their hairs all a mess,
that they're in a weird outfit, or you get the
call from the school that hey, you know, little Susie
doesn't have her lunch today, like what are you doing?
(09:06):
And you're just like, you know, like you gasp of embarrassment,
and then you're like, I feel so bad for my child,
and you're like, get your shit together, you know. But
you have no control on any of it. But I
see a lot of people spend so much time and
energy on obsessing about the other house and the care
and the quality, and they lose themselves and they lose
(09:26):
And this is the thing that I did wrong. For
eight years, I had no boundaries for eight years. I
let him control my house for eight years in co parenting,
and until I learned boundaries, my relationship with my children
was at risk because I was parenting how he wanted
me to parent, and I was doing things that the
court wanted me to do, and I was so I
was still in court. I was going to court all
the time, and I was just not focused. I was tired,
(09:47):
I was anxious. I was broke, I was miserable. I
was drinking too much. I did all the smoking cigarettes
like a fiend as soon as they went to bed.
I was doing it all wrong because I wasn't. I
was so obsessed with the co parenting journey and how
shitty it was, and the divorce process and what will
be the thing that'll make the stop. I was obsessed
with finding the thing that would get us on the
(10:09):
co parenting journey. I didn't have radical acceptance that I
was just in high conflict and it was going to
stay that way forever. But at the eight year mark,
I hit, you know, the absorbents of boundaries and self
love and self care. And as soon as I did that,
my relationship with my children changed. We became unbreakable. My
relationships with friends and family grew, and I didn't care
(10:32):
less what he was doing like it was just like
a switch went off, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So free. Didn't you feel so free in the peace?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I mean it was just this warm blanket that comes
over And then it almost became a laughable game when
he would try to get to me and I'm like, good, try,
like like I knew this coming into I teach my
clients a Bingo card, especially if they're new to figuring
out their ex. You should be doing a Bingo card
about every situation. So if you have a school function
(10:59):
coming up and makes you really nervous because you know
your ex is going to bring five family members, maybe
a new significant other, show up late, you know, bring
everybody and their brother, have your kids show up late,
you know, not embarrass you with a teacher. Write all
those on a bingo card.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh my god. I love this idea because.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Then you know, you sit with you. My mom was
my rock, so I would sit with my mom and
we would make a Bingo card about court. You know,
what's he going to wear, what elevator is he coming?
Because he always did the same thing. Where's he going
to part? You know, what's he going to say? Who's
he bringing with him? You know? Things like that, and
then at the end of it, I would, you know,
we would exchange the bingo card and I'd be like,
oh mom, like you got more than I did. And
it was this way fun humor to it and expectations
(11:38):
because then when he did something you know, outlandish in court,
I was like, damn, I had that one down.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it doesn't anger you as much as it does, yes, because.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I expected it. It's a pattern and anybody of high
conflict it's a pattern behavior. I mean, there's nothing new
they're throwing at you. Guys. You just need to pay
attention to the patterns and do bingo cards, and then
it becomes less toxic for you, like you'll react better,
you'll stay emotionally raked because it's an expectation versus a
I cannot believe that happened.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, you know it's gonna happen, yeah, right right, So.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Write it down and then it becomes something to where
you get to the point where you don't even have
to do the car just when you sit in the
car and you're like, Okay, this is how this could
go one of six ways. This is going to you know,
go this way, and then it becomes an expectation and
a learned behavior and then your responses can get better
and your piece stays there versus you know, going and
everything like, well it goes well, it's probably not prepare
for the probably not you know, have your body ready
(12:30):
for it? Probably not going well.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, it's so you cannot be prepared when this is
your first rodeo, or even if it's your second rodeo.
But now you have more little clowns in the in
your kurt kids take care of like you don't. There's
so much you don't know when. And divorce is a business.
I feel like it is.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I mean it's a it's a billion dollar industry every year.
And I think just having a divorce coach somebody, people
like you said, you know what is this. We're the calm,
We're the educator, we're the handholder. You know, you have
a very high priced attorney that every time you call
costs you three hundred to six hundred dollars depending on
where you live, you know, and sometimes all you want
to do is just bitch on the phone and have
(13:14):
somebody say that's not right, Jenny. Let us do that
for a way more affordable cost to where you can
get all that emotional stuff out and then we can
give you bullet points. Okay, take this to your attorney,
and now you've gotten through the story, and your attorney
really only has time for bullet points anyways, and they
really only want bullet points. They don't want the story,
you know, And so we can cut down costs. The
(13:35):
education part alone, just educating you about the process, educating
you about you know, write a first refusal, holidays, vacation,
how many vacation weeks should we have? And what does
that look like? Can I take them back to back?
Explaining all of those options. That alone, just that educational
part takes away so much anxiety. You know, if you
have mediation coming up and some attorneys just say, go
(13:56):
into it with an open mind, okay, but what are
they gonna ask me? Well, we just let the mediator
lead it, okay, but what are they going to ask me?
That's up to your mediator. Okay, that sends me into
a tailspin. No, So letting us as divorce coaches educate
you about here's all the things you should bring up
if even if the mediator doesn't, because at the end
(14:17):
of the day, when the mediator's out of the picture,
the lawyers out of the picture. You're with your kids
using a paperwork to guide you, and if that paperwork
is horrible, you don't have good guidance, and then what
do you have to do. You have to either a
call your ex, which you don't want to do and
have to have those conversations, or b call a very
high priced attorney back to have them work it out
(14:39):
for you. So either way you're doomed. It's not what
you want to be doing as a single parent. You
want to move on and have really good paperwork.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yep, what was it you said you were a teacher before?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
What did you teach?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I taught pe, driver's ed and health.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, and I coached all these sports like those teenagers.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Junior high in high school. Yeah, that was my bread
and butter. I loved it. I loved the kids. But
there was something about and I think that's why I'm
good is because I was I was formed on teaching.
You know, that was My background is all teaching and
teaching and teaching. So I mean, you give me a subject,
I can talk for hours about divorce. And so that's
why Jared was like, you have to teach people, like
let all of the pain that you went through become
(15:28):
your passion and just teach people better. And I know
I've seen people thousands of dollars and that's great, but
I know I've helped people take their power back and
feel educated and well versed. When talking to their exes
and with their attorneys. They feel like they know what
they're talking and they know why. I always explain why something.
I don't just say, hey, pick this for Christmas. I
(15:48):
give them an example of why they should pick that
for Christmas. And then it's like you see all these
light bulb moments for people that are super distracted right
now again and that really tough phase of married and
that divorce phase. You're emotional, you're worried about your kids,
you're finding yourself again, You're just you're worried about everything.
Let me guide you. Let me guide you through that
(16:09):
part because I've been there, done that, did it wrong,
but now I know how to do it right. Well.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
First of all, I think like, because you had that
experience teaching and sort of managing.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
A personalities different people, all different shapes and sizes, I.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Feel like there's you know, a lot of guys who
kind of stop developing at desertain age until they don't
can't get away with it anymore. Yep, And I feel
like that's good on the job training for you for surely.
So yeah, I'm a single mom, say, and I'm going
through what has become a high conflict divorce and I
don't know what I need, but I know I need help.
(16:46):
So a person like you is a person to turn
to for just to help you have a plan in
place to give you guidance.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, because I think my ideal client would be the
woman that's at home going gosh, I want to leave,
and this has given me hope. Like you know, I'll
contact Sam. I want you to contact me before you
contact an attorney. And here's why I want you to
be educated first when you go to that consultation, yes,
with that attorney, because you should be doing two or
three consultations to really get a full grab. And I
(17:15):
would really like to take it a step further and
not only get an education from me. I have a
masterclass with a workbook that's phenomenal. It's only ninety seven dollars.
I keep everything affordable because when I was going through
my divorce, I couldn't affortue you.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's amazing though.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, just so a little master class a couple hours long.
You can learn all the lingo, learn about holidays, learn
what's going to be asked of you, right, And then
I would really, if I had like the best wishes
for you, I would want you to go ahead and
build your parenting plan. That way, you can get everything
wrote down of what ideally you would want for your kids,
from diapers to diploma, and then you use that paper
(17:48):
to take into your consultations and say, okay, attorney, I
know you're giving me all the right answers here, but
I want you to look at this and if you
really truly believe that you're a good fit for me,
what do you think of this proposed parenting plan. This
is how much detail I want to have, this is
the level of longevity I want to go. And what
do you think? And I'm going to tell you right
now that answer will dictate whether that's a good lawyer
(18:08):
for your situation or not. Because that lawyer may get
offended that you've already done a lot of work because
that just decreased their billable hours. That attorney may say,
absolutely not, We're not doing something like that. No judge
will go for that, and it's like, well, that's because
you're still using a template from nineteen eighty four. Okay,
so things have changed. Kids have modernized, so have relationships,
(18:29):
and so has personality disorders. We need a little bit
more detail in here. But there's attorneys out there that
have seen my parenting plan and they love it because
because modifications are on a rise, people are coming back
to court again and again again once they're divorced because
they realize their paperwork is faulty and it doesn't go
in age up with the children. No.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But then you feel stuck because you've just gone through
this expensive divorce and you realized you shouldn't have said
no to this, or you should have said yes to this,
or you realize I don't even know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
He's taking them forever other week, what right?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And because that was my case, I was just like
in such a waze of like what I didn't even
know what way was up?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And then you have to go back like that's the
only option. You have to go get it amended, and
that costs a ton of money.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Too, Yep. And that's where that's just my frustration. I mean,
I had three hundred cord entries for a reason. Because
our parenting plan when we got it was four pages.
I was so excited after four years to have a
parenting plan. I mean I was like disappointed in what
it said, you know, as far as visitation, but I
was like, Okay, at least I have a parenting plan.
And then the first time I went to use it,
I was like, wait a second, like why is this
not mentioned? Why is this not mentioned? So then I
(19:37):
casually called my ex because I thought we'd be co parenting,
and he was like, doesn't say I have to. Oh.
I'm like, I'm like, wait a second, like you know,
or it was child support should cover that, child support
should cover that, you know, doesn't say I have to.
It was always like yeah, but this is for our kids.
This isn't for me. This is and if it's not written,
they won't do it. And so I was stuck with
this four page pairing plan. So every time, like the
(19:57):
kids leap to a different phase of life, I would
have to go back and say can we add this
in here? And I kept asking can't we just kind
of plan out? Because again I taught I know the
phases of children. Can we just not ride out all
the way to graduation. Well, we don't know yet, Sam,
So you would just want me every time they go
through a new phase to hire my attorney, pay a
(20:17):
new retainer, fill out paperwork, and go through this stress
all over just when I'm telling you, let's just go
ahead and put it down. And my methodology is this.
Too many people go into divorce thinking they'll be friends still,
or they'll get along, or they'll just work on it
later or discuss it later. My methodology would be plan
for worst case scenario. You're already paying the money. Pay
(20:37):
for worst case scenario. Write out every detail you can
possibly think of all the way to graduation. And here's
the deal. If you end up being that Kumbayau relationship
and you are friends, put the fucker on the shelf
and never look at it. But if you need it,
you pull it out and you say, hey, I'd love
to Steve, but I think I'm gonna follow the parenting
plan on this one.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I didn't have a parenting plan.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Oh my gosh, that makes my just blood boil for you.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't know how he got through it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I remember a lot of feudal Well, I'm gonna call
my lawyer threats, and then him saying, go ahead, you'll
have to pay for it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Then you're like, well, fuck me, I can't. I don't.
I don't have more of my nose pay for this.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, I've got nothing. I can have no choices, I
have no options. I have no way out of this
awful feeling, right.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And that's that's the situation that most of my clients have,
is that they're willing to work with their co parent,
and their co parent is a counterparent who always say,
taking you to court. Then you can't do that. I'm
taking the kids from you. You're gonna have to pay
for my lawyer to where I'm already broke, So now
you have me buy the balls. And you know, now
I have to agree with what you want because I
can't afford to take you to court. So then that
(21:49):
high conflict parent gets away with murder every.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Single time, every single time.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
And it's frustrating.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Okay, when you.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Talk about that parenting plan, though, is that something that
you even though you're representing or working with one client,
say in this case, the female, uh, the woman or
whatever one partner, then you do you work with the
other parent as well to come up with that parenting
plan or is it just what one side wants.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's just what one side wants to propose. So again,
they're using that parenting plan to either find a really
good attorney, they're using that parenting plan as a starting
point to take mediation with them. Because we all know
in our first mediation appointment we're like ass sweaty, nervous.
When we were just like, you know, mouth dry, and
we see our high conflict person and then we may freeze, right,
and then we forgot all those good things that our
(22:45):
girlfriends and TikTok showed us and the reels and we're like,
oh shit, we forgot. So that's why you need to
have it on paper, because you're gonna lose your mind
at your first appointment. So having that there, you know,
and then if doesn't go, well, okay, still I still
have it. Maybe I'll edit it a little bit, make
it from what I heard in mediation, But then my
attorney is going to propose it to the other side
attorney to attorney before our court date even comes up.
(23:07):
So the attorneys are constantly trying to edit down because
at the end of the day, when you have children
and you're divorcing, everybody's gonna walk away with a parenting
plan of some kind. It's going to have some kind
of written, you know, documentation that says what's happening with
the kids, what holidays, you know, what things are you doing?
And so why not be the lead on that, because,
like I've told my clients, I'm not polishing a turd.
If you wait for your client to send over to
(23:29):
our side and I'm helping you, I can't fix garbage, okay,
And mine is spectacular because again, diapers is a plane
of detailed, detailed detail. And when I get these like
six seven page parenting plans to just say, parties will
later discuss, parties will lay to determine. No, I don't
want to determine anything with him later. I want it
to be done. So that's why I always want my
(23:50):
client to have it done first. Be the proposer, be
the ones that initiate, Be the lead, you know, for
in the marriage, most of my clients have been the
second person. They may have been leading in the organizer
and everything, but they been second fiddle for most of
the marriage. This is your opportunity to be leading through
this process and feel like you have your power coming back.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know that.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
You know, you don't spend any time researching divorce or
how that works until you're about to get one.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
But I feel like.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
In just talking to you, like I feel like we
should talk about that, teach that before people get married.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I mean not.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
People will not like that, probably because people don't even
want to talk about prenups. But I feel like, if
you're going to go into a legally binding situation with
somebody and it looks amazing in this moment, you don't
know what's going to happen in life. Nobody knows, and
again you have no control, right, so why not learn?
Why shouldn't we be teaching? And you know, it's another
(24:43):
thing I wish we were teaching in school, like what
is marriage? What does that mean to us? And how
does that affect our livelihood and our living situation?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
All things? It's really important.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Right. Well, I have two children from my divorce. We're now,
you know, twenty one and nineteen, and of them's in college.
She goes the University of Alabama, and she know, she
sees her peers, you know, going out and doing typical
college behavior, and she's always playing through because she was
a child of at high conflict co parenting journey. She's
always like, Hey, I know you're dating that guy. If
(25:14):
you sleep with them and happen to get pregnant, can
you coparent for the next eighteen years with this guy?
I mean, my daughter's like the mom trying to be like, hey,
you may have an accident that you don't intend to.
Can you co parent with this But do you even
know what their morals are? Do you know what they
want for Christmas? And not? Like my kids are so
well versed in my business now. They're part of the
business and helping you know, other kids going through divorce
(25:36):
and moms and giving input and things like that of
what it was like because I didn't do it right
and so they talk about, you know, my journey and stuff.
But yeah, you have to be able to co parent
with this person before you have kids and having that
strong conversation, Hey, before we get into kids. If we
ever do split up, what would you think? What would
it feel like? You know, on my second marriage with Jared,
I joke, but I'm not joking. You know, I am
(25:57):
the breadwinner of our household. I've always joked that I
will pay you child support. I will be the weekend
warrior parent. I will swoop in for holidays like I
can't go through another toxic divorce. There's just no way
my body. But I also picked a man that I
know it would never get that way. You know it's
not going to get that way. His personality is the
personality that I need. Right. So having that ability, I
(26:18):
think that first marriage gives you is like I know
what I don't want. Not doing that right, you learn
a lot, Yeah, you learn.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
You learn along with that learn on the job training situation.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
If you're not learning from every relationship about what you
put into it and what you took away and what
your fault is. And I think just a little side
piece of advice to anybody listening when they start dating again,
If you're dating someone after your divorce and they've been
divorced as well, and they can't take any ownership and
their divorce, that's a red flag.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
For me, it's a red flag.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And for me I first eight years, I would have
told you it was all my ex husband gosh to
live with him. I would have blamed everything on him.
But then again, when I got personal development and self
care and self love and boundaries and all that personal
work was going on with therapy. That's when I realized,
should I play just the biggest part in our marriage
failing and our divorce taking? Forever? It was me too? Absolutely,
(27:08):
me too.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, there's so much finger pointing in the beginning, especially
maybe for many years, and I've definitely was, you know,
a major part of that.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But I had to start.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I always say I had to start pulling the thumb
and like looking at my part in things good one
and that that's not just like you know with my divorce,
that's like you should be doing that in every situation
in your life, looking at what is your part in
this either being a success or not being a success?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Exactly. I love that. I love that. I'm gonna steal
that thumb thing.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's a good one, right, that is a good one. Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So when people find you, what is the number one
question they have?
Speaker 3 (27:44):
How do I get my lawyer to understand what I need?
A lot of people don't know how to work their
lawyer in their favor. And I think people forget you
are the one paying your attorney's not the other way around.
You know, you're you are paid for you right, right?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
So people are.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Coming to me for expert, you know, advice on parenting
plans and how do I get my attorney to understand
that I want the longevity, you know, I want the detail.
I want to be protected. I don't want to have
to come back to court or work with them, So
that would be hands down parenting plan questions and how
to get your lawyer to buy into it is the
big one. And for that just the answer is the
right attorney will buy into your story and believe you
(28:21):
and anybody that shames you for saying you know, well,
don't worry. I've seen a lot of ex husbands or
ex wives like that, like it's not that big a deal.
That's not your attorney, you guys, there's plenty of attorneys
out there. I don't care. If you've been live in
a small town, fish around, go around, do your research.
Picking the wrong attorney at the very beginning can be
a doomsday to your whole case. So due diligence, I mean,
(28:43):
I know people like I'm broke, you know, I can't
afford all these consults. Can you afford one hundred thousand
dollars by picking the wrong attorney at the beginning, Because
that's what I did. I fell for Dove chocolates in
the bathroom and the marble countertops and her high heels,
and I was just like, I'm in love. I'm like,
look at this powerful woman. Yeah, And then she didn't
do shit for me. And then I hired my next attorney,
who wore shoulder pads before they were cool again, had
(29:06):
like Sigourney Weaver hair, and like just destroyed office. I
hired her and she was a badass. So it's not
always what you think at the consultation. But that's why
I want you to take that parenting plan and really say, no,
this is the level of person I'm dealing with, and
this is how much protection I need. And if they
don't buy into that detail, that's not your attorney.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I think this is a great place for us to
take a pause in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
We have so much more to talk about.
Welcome back to I Do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm one of your hosts, Jenny Garth, and today I
wanted to bring in a guest to talk about something
that I've never even heard of before.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You guys.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
She is a divorce coach and a certified divorce mediator.
She has been at this for over ten years. I
love her TikTok, and she is the co host of
her own podcast, Divorce with Sam and Leah. I can't
wait to talk with Samantha Boss Samantha. What the heck
is a divorce coach?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
A game changer, a lifesaver, a financial saver? Well, okay,
I mean it's a little bit of like we're the
catchup all trades. It just kind of depends on what
your case needs and what I'm finding my clients need.
They're typically a high conflict divorce, meaning it's not going well,
court is dragging out, co parenting's not starting off on
(01:06):
the right foot. And they're usually women that have been
in some type of toxic, abusive relationship and they don't
know themselves yet because they were not happy in the marriage,
and then they're going divorce, but there's this trial period
where they're like segueing from the abuse to independence, and
that's when all the decisions happen.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, even if you're not abused per se, like you've
just been in this situation that wasn't serving.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You and you come out and you don't even know
which ways up.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So my only question really for this entire interview is
why weren't you there when I needed you?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Why wasn't I round when I was going? I mean,
my divorce lasted forever. That's what everybody says when they
meet me and they catch the vibe and they know
what services I can offer, and it's like, where were you?
Where were you? You know I found you too late?
Where were you two years ago? You know I wasn't
on your feed yet.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Now I want to know what is it specifically that
you do here?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, my specialty and my bread and butter, which I
just I could sit on stage and talk for hours about,
is parenting plans, because that's where mine went wrong. Parenting plan,
you know, customizing them, making sure they're detailed, making sure
they're protecting you and not you know, leaving a bunch
of gray area for a high conflict personality to take
over you. Getting your parenting plan all the way from
(02:22):
diapers to diploma. So I customize parenting plans for people
because when you again, you're in that middle phase. You
were married and you want to be single parent, but
you're in this phase of decision making and you just
don't know. You know, if you're divorcing with kids that
are two, three, five, seven years old, you're raising kids
for the first time. You don't know what's ahead even
in a good situation, let alone you know a situation
(02:44):
where you're not getting along with your co parent now.
So I customize those parenting plans. I get you wherever
you're at with your kids, whatever age the youngest is,
and I get you all the way to high school,
and I cover everything that you can think of from education, extracurricular, religion,
and medical and everything in between. And we covered all.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You sound like an expert. I to really love this conversation.
I want to know, though, about your journey, because you know,
there's yeah, there's nothing I love more than when you
work with someone who has actually walked the same path
that you've walked. And you were in a high conflict
divorce situation and ended up being taking a lot of
(03:23):
years probably off of your life and a lot of
money out of your account.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, And so as I was going through that, I
was highly educated. I came from a good family. I
was the first person to get divorced, and so there
was a lot of shame and guilt of like, why
couldn't I make this work? So I went into it
acting like I was fine. So I hired a really
good attorney. I was fine. I had a good, good attorney,
so I thought, you know, and as I was going
through this process, because it was taking so long, people
(03:49):
friends and family started asking me questions as they went
through a divorce, and I kept on teaching because I
was an educator at the time. And I went through
My divorce took about four years, and we were in
court another four years after that over petty stuff that
we just you know, couldn't help ourselves. We love the courtroom.
And as I was going through that and helping friends
and family, I realized like my true passion was correcting
my mistake. I felt joy when I helped people. I
(04:11):
felt like, Okay, don't do that because that's what I did.
You know, don't answer it that way, because that's what
I did. And it was a lot of healing in
that and then when I met my now husband, Jared,
he was like, why don't you quit teaching kids and
teach adults about divorce? And at first I was like,
you are absolutely insane, Like who would pay me to
help them? You know? And he's like, people call you
(04:31):
every day like people, and you're doing it for free.
And there it went, and he just said, hey, why
don't you become a mediator? So I did that at first,
and I was getting couples all the time and that
was great, but it wasn't my story. My story. We
didn't work out a mediation, we did not get along.
So I wanted to help me, the former me. So
then I just started helping one client at a time
(04:53):
and that's when it just it clicked. It felt right,
and education is my number one objective. I just want
people to know what's ahead and to know what their
options are. I just don't think you get told because
you're talking to a high priced attorney what your options are.
So then that's how my business just evolved. I kind
of I say that I've pivoted no less than nine
(05:13):
times in my business because I'm trying to fit exactly
what the former me needed and I needed support, and
I needed an education and I needed somebody to say
do this instead of just winging it and hoping that
it was going to work.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
If you're getting me all fired up over here, I'm
getting a little angry because I didn't have anybody like you,
and I was winging it.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Nobody told me anything.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I didn't have any kind of knowledge of what anybody
was talking about, sort as like legal terms and yes.
And I committed to things that I would not have
committed to if I had known what I was committing to.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, well, I think people have a good heart. There's
always one person in the divorce that has a good heart,
has good intentions and once to co parent and once
to work with the other and will put the kids first.
But when you're met with resistance and bitterness and angry
and just hatred the stuff that you agree to, you're like, Okay,
well it'll get better and they'll come around and it'll
(06:12):
work out right now. And that's what your lawyer sometimes
tells you is, hey, don't worry about it, Jenny Wine,
the ink dries, it's going to go smoother. Eighteen years
Mine was a bumpy, twisty, windy road that never got smooth,
and so I think that's where I think people's expectations.
They go into it different and it stays different, and
it's not going to go back healed for everybody the
(06:32):
way you see on TV, or you see your friends
across the street hell their neighbors and they still do
Christmas together, and that's great for them. But that's not everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
That's not everybody. I've been on both sides of that river. Yeah,
spent a lot of time angry and mad and bitter
and resentful and all the things. And I just reached
a point in my personal life where I thought, oh
my god, this is bringing me down. It's bringing me
down mentally, it's bringing me down physically. Look in the mirror,
I don't like what who's looking back at me, Honne.
(07:04):
And I needed to like take charge of, like flipping
the conversation in my own head so that I could
come at it from a different way.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Well, that was the only thing that's going to change.
And I think anybody listening that's going through a high
conflict co parenting journey or even divorce, the only thing
you have control over is your own journey. You don't
have control over the other house. Or the other attorney,
or what your ex is doing, or how they're parenting
at their house. The only thing you can control is
how you interpret information, how you receive it, and how
(07:35):
it comes out of you, you know, when you want
to go back and talk and have a conversation. And
I think too many of us are trying to control
another house or have input about the other house, or
care too much.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Oh my god, I wasted so much time trying to
like know, because I mean, that's brutal, Like you know,
for me, I was everything. My kids were everything, and
three little girls, and I giving up basically my life,
my identity and become so much of a mom to
these three girls. And I loved every second of it.
(08:06):
So I wasn't like sad about that at the time.
But when they did leave, I was like, oh my god.
I text him, I call him. I try to make
sure that their safety is this and they're eating that,
and that they know they have their bags packed the
proper way like, and all I got was like, click,
hang up, no, text back, stay out of it. You
(08:28):
don't belong here, there's no place for you. Don't worry
about us. I've got it covered. All the things and
those all those things would just make me so much
angrier until I did come to terms with the fact
that I don't get to have any say in my
daughters once they leave my door.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yes, and that is a very and I think that's
why women stay too long, you know, or just anybody
stays too long in the marriage. But yeah, it's a
big pill to swallow. The first couple of weekends they're gone,
seeing them show up somewhere and their hairs all a mess,
that they're in a weird outfit, or you get the
call from the school that hey, you know, little Susie
doesn't have her lunch today, like what are you doing?
(09:06):
And you're just like, you know, like you gasp of embarrassment,
and then you're like, I feel so bad for my child,
and you're like, get your shit together, you know. But
you have no control on any of it. But I
see a lot of people spend so much time and
energy on obsessing about the other house and the care
and the quality, and they lose themselves and they lose
(09:26):
And this is the thing that I did wrong. For
eight years, I had no boundaries for eight years. I
let him control my house for eight years in co parenting,
and until I learned boundaries, my relationship with my children
was at risk because I was parenting how he wanted
me to parent, and I was doing things that the
court wanted me to do, and I was so I
was still in court. I was going to court all
the time, and I was just not focused. I was tired,
(09:47):
I was anxious. I was broke, I was miserable. I
was drinking too much. I did all the smoking cigarettes
like a fiend as soon as they went to bed.
I was doing it all wrong because I wasn't. I
was so obsessed with the co parenting journey and how
shitty it was, and the divorce process and what will
be the thing that'll make the stop. I was obsessed
with finding the thing that would get us on the
(10:09):
co parenting journey. I didn't have radical acceptance that I
was just in high conflict and it was going to
stay that way forever. But at the eight year mark,
I hit, you know, the absorbents of boundaries and self
love and self care. And as soon as I did that,
my relationship with my children changed. We became unbreakable. My
relationships with friends and family grew, and I didn't care
(10:32):
less what he was doing like it was just like
a switch went off, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So free. Didn't you feel so free in the peace?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I mean it was just this warm blanket that comes
over And then it almost became a laughable game when
he would try to get to me and I'm like, good, try,
like like I knew this coming into I teach my
clients a Bingo card, especially if they're new to figuring
out their ex. You should be doing a Bingo card
about every situation. So if you have a school function
(10:59):
coming up and makes you really nervous because you know
your ex is going to bring five family members, maybe
a new significant other, show up late, you know, bring
everybody and their brother, have your kids show up late,
you know, not embarrass you with a teacher. Write all
those on a bingo card.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh my god. I love this idea because.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Then you know, you sit with you. My mom was
my rock, so I would sit with my mom and
we would make a Bingo card about court. You know,
what's he going to wear, what elevator is he coming?
Because he always did the same thing. Where's he going
to part? You know, what's he going to say? Who's
he bringing with him? You know? Things like that, and
then at the end of it, I would, you know,
we would exchange the bingo card and I'd be like,
oh mom, like you got more than I did. And
it was this way fun humor to it and expectations
(11:38):
because then when he did something you know, outlandish in court,
I was like, damn, I had that one down.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it doesn't anger you as much as it does, yes, because.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I expected it. It's a pattern and anybody of high
conflict it's a pattern behavior. I mean, there's nothing new
they're throwing at you. Guys. You just need to pay
attention to the patterns and do bingo cards, and then
it becomes less toxic for you, like you'll react better,
you'll stay emotionally raked because it's an expectation versus a
I cannot believe that happened.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, you know it's gonna happen, yeah, right right, So.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Write it down and then it becomes something to where
you get to the point where you don't even have
to do the car just when you sit in the
car and you're like, Okay, this is how this could
go one of six ways. This is going to you know,
go this way, and then it becomes an expectation and
a learned behavior and then your responses can get better
and your piece stays there versus you know, going and
everything like, well it goes well, it's probably not prepare
for the probably not you know, have your body ready
(12:30):
for it? Probably not going well.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, it's so you cannot be prepared when this is
your first rodeo, or even if it's your second rodeo.
But now you have more little clowns in the in
your kurt kids take care of like you don't. There's
so much you don't know when. And divorce is a business.
I feel like it is.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I mean it's a it's a billion dollar industry every year.
And I think just having a divorce coach somebody, people
like you said, you know what is this. We're the calm,
We're the educator, we're the handholder. You know, you have
a very high priced attorney that every time you call
costs you three hundred to six hundred dollars depending on
where you live, you know, and sometimes all you want
to do is just bitch on the phone and have
(13:14):
somebody say that's not right, Jenny. Let us do that
for a way more affordable cost to where you can
get all that emotional stuff out and then we can
give you bullet points. Okay, take this to your attorney,
and now you've gotten through the story, and your attorney
really only has time for bullet points anyways, and they
really only want bullet points. They don't want the story,
you know, And so we can cut down costs. The
(13:35):
education part alone, just educating you about the process, educating
you about you know, write a first refusal, holidays, vacation,
how many vacation weeks should we have? And what does
that look like? Can I take them back to back?
Explaining all of those options. That alone, just that educational
part takes away so much anxiety. You know, if you
have mediation coming up and some attorneys just say, go
(13:56):
into it with an open mind, okay, but what are
they gonna ask me? Well, we just let the mediator
lead it, okay, but what are they going to ask me?
That's up to your mediator. Okay, that sends me into
a tailspin. No, So letting us as divorce coaches educate
you about here's all the things you should bring up
if even if the mediator doesn't, because at the end
(14:17):
of the day, when the mediator's out of the picture,
the lawyers out of the picture. You're with your kids
using a paperwork to guide you, and if that paperwork
is horrible, you don't have good guidance, and then what
do you have to do. You have to either a
call your ex, which you don't want to do and
have to have those conversations, or b call a very
high priced attorney back to have them work it out
(14:39):
for you. So either way you're doomed. It's not what
you want to be doing as a single parent. You
want to move on and have really good paperwork.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yep, what was it you said you were a teacher before?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
What did you teach?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I taught pe, driver's ed and health.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, and I coached all these sports like those teenagers.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Junior high in high school. Yeah, that was my bread
and butter. I loved it. I loved the kids. But
there was something about and I think that's why I'm
good is because I was I was formed on teaching.
You know, that was My background is all teaching and
teaching and teaching. So I mean, you give me a subject,
I can talk for hours about divorce. And so that's
why Jared was like, you have to teach people, like
let all of the pain that you went through become
(15:28):
your passion and just teach people better. And I know
I've seen people thousands of dollars and that's great, but
I know I've helped people take their power back and
feel educated and well versed. When talking to their exes
and with their attorneys. They feel like they know what
they're talking and they know why. I always explain why something.
I don't just say, hey, pick this for Christmas. I
(15:48):
give them an example of why they should pick that
for Christmas. And then it's like you see all these
light bulb moments for people that are super distracted right
now again and that really tough phase of married and
that divorce phase. You're emotional, you're worried about your kids,
you're finding yourself again, You're just you're worried about everything.
Let me guide you. Let me guide you through that
(16:09):
part because I've been there, done that, did it wrong,
but now I know how to do it right. Well.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
First of all, I think like, because you had that
experience teaching and sort of managing.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
A personalities different people, all different shapes and sizes, I.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Feel like there's you know, a lot of guys who
kind of stop developing at desertain age until they don't
can't get away with it anymore. Yep, And I feel
like that's good on the job training for you for surely.
So yeah, I'm a single mom, say, and I'm going
through what has become a high conflict divorce and I
don't know what I need, but I know I need help.
(16:46):
So a person like you is a person to turn
to for just to help you have a plan in
place to give you guidance.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, because I think my ideal client would be the
woman that's at home going gosh, I want to leave,
and this has given me hope. Like you know, I'll
contact Sam. I want you to contact me before you
contact an attorney. And here's why I want you to
be educated first when you go to that consultation, yes,
with that attorney, because you should be doing two or
three consultations to really get a full grab. And I
(17:15):
would really like to take it a step further and
not only get an education from me. I have a
masterclass with a workbook that's phenomenal. It's only ninety seven dollars.
I keep everything affordable because when I was going through
my divorce, I couldn't affortue you.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's amazing though.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, just so a little master class a couple hours long.
You can learn all the lingo, learn about holidays, learn
what's going to be asked of you, right, And then
I would really, if I had like the best wishes
for you, I would want you to go ahead and
build your parenting plan. That way, you can get everything
wrote down of what ideally you would want for your kids,
from diapers to diploma, and then you use that paper
(17:48):
to take into your consultations and say, okay, attorney, I
know you're giving me all the right answers here, but
I want you to look at this and if you
really truly believe that you're a good fit for me,
what do you think of this proposed parenting plan. This
is how much detail I want to have, this is
the level of longevity I want to go. And what
do you think? And I'm going to tell you right
now that answer will dictate whether that's a good lawyer
(18:08):
for your situation or not. Because that lawyer may get
offended that you've already done a lot of work because
that just decreased their billable hours. That attorney may say,
absolutely not, We're not doing something like that. No judge
will go for that, and it's like, well, that's because
you're still using a template from nineteen eighty four. Okay,
so things have changed. Kids have modernized, so have relationships,
(18:29):
and so has personality disorders. We need a little bit
more detail in here. But there's attorneys out there that
have seen my parenting plan and they love it because
because modifications are on a rise, people are coming back
to court again and again again once they're divorced because
they realize their paperwork is faulty and it doesn't go
in age up with the children. No.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But then you feel stuck because you've just gone through
this expensive divorce and you realized you shouldn't have said
no to this, or you should have said yes to this,
or you realize I don't even know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
He's taking them forever other week, what right?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And because that was my case, I was just like
in such a waze of like what I didn't even
know what way was up?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And then you have to go back like that's the
only option. You have to go get it amended, and
that costs a ton of money.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Too, Yep. And that's where that's just my frustration. I mean,
I had three hundred cord entries for a reason. Because
our parenting plan when we got it was four pages.
I was so excited after four years to have a
parenting plan. I mean I was like disappointed in what
it said, you know, as far as visitation, but I
was like, Okay, at least I have a parenting plan.
And then the first time I went to use it,
I was like, wait a second, like why is this
not mentioned? Why is this not mentioned? So then I
(19:37):
casually called my ex because I thought we'd be co parenting,
and he was like, doesn't say I have to. Oh.
I'm like, I'm like, wait a second, like you know,
or it was child support should cover that, child support
should cover that, you know, doesn't say I have to.
It was always like yeah, but this is for our kids.
This isn't for me. This is and if it's not written,
they won't do it. And so I was stuck with
this four page pairing plan. So every time, like the
(19:57):
kids leap to a different phase of life, I would
have to go back and say can we add this
in here? And I kept asking can't we just kind
of plan out? Because again I taught I know the
phases of children. Can we just not ride out all
the way to graduation. Well, we don't know yet, Sam,
So you would just want me every time they go
through a new phase to hire my attorney, pay a
(20:17):
new retainer, fill out paperwork, and go through this stress
all over just when I'm telling you, let's just go
ahead and put it down. And my methodology is this.
Too many people go into divorce thinking they'll be friends still,
or they'll get along, or they'll just work on it
later or discuss it later. My methodology would be plan
for worst case scenario. You're already paying the money. Pay
(20:37):
for worst case scenario. Write out every detail you can
possibly think of all the way to graduation. And here's
the deal. If you end up being that Kumbayau relationship
and you are friends, put the fucker on the shelf
and never look at it. But if you need it,
you pull it out and you say, hey, I'd love
to Steve, but I think I'm gonna follow the parenting
plan on this one.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I didn't have a parenting plan.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Oh my gosh, that makes my just blood boil for you.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't know how he got through it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I remember a lot of feudal Well, I'm gonna call
my lawyer threats, and then him saying, go ahead, you'll
have to pay for it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Then you're like, well, fuck me, I can't. I don't.
I don't have more of my nose pay for this.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, I've got nothing. I can have no choices, I
have no options. I have no way out of this
awful feeling, right.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And that's that's the situation that most of my clients have,
is that they're willing to work with their co parent,
and their co parent is a counterparent who always say,
taking you to court. Then you can't do that. I'm
taking the kids from you. You're gonna have to pay
for my lawyer to where I'm already broke, So now
you have me buy the balls. And you know, now
I have to agree with what you want because I
can't afford to take you to court. So then that
(21:49):
high conflict parent gets away with murder every.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Single time, every single time.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
And it's frustrating.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Okay, when you.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Talk about that parenting plan, though, is that something that
you even though you're representing or working with one client,
say in this case, the female, uh, the woman or
whatever one partner, then you do you work with the
other parent as well to come up with that parenting
plan or is it just what one side wants.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's just what one side wants to propose. So again,
they're using that parenting plan to either find a really
good attorney, they're using that parenting plan as a starting
point to take mediation with them. Because we all know
in our first mediation appointment we're like ass sweaty, nervous.
When we were just like, you know, mouth dry, and
we see our high conflict person and then we may freeze, right,
and then we forgot all those good things that our
(22:45):
girlfriends and TikTok showed us and the reels and we're like,
oh shit, we forgot. So that's why you need to
have it on paper, because you're gonna lose your mind
at your first appointment. So having that there, you know,
and then if doesn't go, well, okay, still I still
have it. Maybe I'll edit it a little bit, make
it from what I heard in mediation, But then my
attorney is going to propose it to the other side
attorney to attorney before our court date even comes up.
(23:07):
So the attorneys are constantly trying to edit down because
at the end of the day, when you have children
and you're divorcing, everybody's gonna walk away with a parenting
plan of some kind. It's going to have some kind
of written, you know, documentation that says what's happening with
the kids, what holidays, you know, what things are you doing?
And so why not be the lead on that, because,
like I've told my clients, I'm not polishing a turd.
If you wait for your client to send over to
(23:29):
our side and I'm helping you, I can't fix garbage, okay,
And mine is spectacular because again, diapers is a plane
of detailed, detailed detail. And when I get these like
six seven page parenting plans to just say, parties will
later discuss, parties will lay to determine. No, I don't
want to determine anything with him later. I want it
to be done. So that's why I always want my
(23:50):
client to have it done first. Be the proposer, be
the ones that initiate, Be the lead, you know, for
in the marriage, most of my clients have been the
second person. They may have been leading in the organizer
and everything, but they been second fiddle for most of
the marriage. This is your opportunity to be leading through
this process and feel like you have your power coming back.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know that.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
You know, you don't spend any time researching divorce or
how that works until you're about to get one.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
But I feel like.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
In just talking to you, like I feel like we
should talk about that, teach that before people get married.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I mean not.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
People will not like that, probably because people don't even
want to talk about prenups. But I feel like, if
you're going to go into a legally binding situation with
somebody and it looks amazing in this moment, you don't
know what's going to happen in life. Nobody knows, and
again you have no control, right, so why not learn?
Why shouldn't we be teaching? And you know, it's another
(24:43):
thing I wish we were teaching in school, like what
is marriage? What does that mean to us? And how
does that affect our livelihood and our living situation?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
All things? It's really important.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Right. Well, I have two children from my divorce. We're now,
you know, twenty one and nineteen, and of them's in college.
She goes the University of Alabama, and she know, she
sees her peers, you know, going out and doing typical
college behavior, and she's always playing through because she was
a child of at high conflict co parenting journey. She's
always like, Hey, I know you're dating that guy. If
(25:14):
you sleep with them and happen to get pregnant, can
you coparent for the next eighteen years with this guy?
I mean, my daughter's like the mom trying to be like, hey,
you may have an accident that you don't intend to.
Can you co parent with this But do you even
know what their morals are? Do you know what they
want for Christmas? And not? Like my kids are so
well versed in my business now. They're part of the
business and helping you know, other kids going through divorce
(25:36):
and moms and giving input and things like that of
what it was like because I didn't do it right
and so they talk about, you know, my journey and stuff.
But yeah, you have to be able to co parent
with this person before you have kids and having that
strong conversation, Hey, before we get into kids. If we
ever do split up, what would you think? What would
it feel like? You know, on my second marriage with Jared,
I joke, but I'm not joking. You know, I am
(25:57):
the breadwinner of our household. I've always joked that I
will pay you child support. I will be the weekend
warrior parent. I will swoop in for holidays like I
can't go through another toxic divorce. There's just no way
my body. But I also picked a man that I
know it would never get that way. You know it's
not going to get that way. His personality is the
personality that I need. Right. So having that ability, I
(26:18):
think that first marriage gives you is like I know
what I don't want. Not doing that right, you learn
a lot, Yeah, you learn.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
You learn along with that learn on the job training situation.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
If you're not learning from every relationship about what you
put into it and what you took away and what
your fault is. And I think just a little side
piece of advice to anybody listening when they start dating again,
If you're dating someone after your divorce and they've been
divorced as well, and they can't take any ownership and
their divorce, that's a red flag.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
For me, it's a red flag.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And for me I first eight years, I would have
told you it was all my ex husband gosh to
live with him. I would have blamed everything on him.
But then again, when I got personal development and self
care and self love and boundaries and all that personal
work was going on with therapy. That's when I realized,
should I play just the biggest part in our marriage
failing and our divorce taking? Forever? It was me too? Absolutely,
(27:08):
me too.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, there's so much finger pointing in the beginning, especially
maybe for many years, and I've definitely was, you know,
a major part of that.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But I had to start.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I always say I had to start pulling the thumb
and like looking at my part in things good one
and that that's not just like you know with my divorce,
that's like you should be doing that in every situation
in your life, looking at what is your part in
this either being a success or not being a success?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Exactly. I love that. I love that. I'm gonna steal
that thumb thing.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's a good one, right, that is a good one. Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So when people find you, what is the number one
question they have?
Speaker 3 (27:44):
How do I get my lawyer to understand what I need?
A lot of people don't know how to work their
lawyer in their favor. And I think people forget you
are the one paying your attorney's not the other way around.
You know, you're you are paid for you right, right?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
So people are.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Coming to me for expert, you know, advice on parenting
plans and how do I get my attorney to understand
that I want the longevity, you know, I want the detail.
I want to be protected. I don't want to have
to come back to court or work with them, So
that would be hands down parenting plan questions and how
to get your lawyer to buy into it is the
big one. And for that just the answer is the
right attorney will buy into your story and believe you
(28:21):
and anybody that shames you for saying you know, well,
don't worry. I've seen a lot of ex husbands or
ex wives like that, like it's not that big a deal.
That's not your attorney, you guys, there's plenty of attorneys
out there. I don't care. If you've been live in
a small town, fish around, go around, do your research.
Picking the wrong attorney at the very beginning can be
a doomsday to your whole case. So due diligence, I mean,
(28:43):
I know people like I'm broke, you know, I can't
afford all these consults. Can you afford one hundred thousand
dollars by picking the wrong attorney at the beginning, Because
that's what I did. I fell for Dove chocolates in
the bathroom and the marble countertops and her high heels,
and I was just like, I'm in love. I'm like,
look at this powerful woman. Yeah, And then she didn't
do shit for me. And then I hired my next attorney,
who wore shoulder pads before they were cool again, had
(29:06):
like Sigourney Weaver hair, and like just destroyed office. I
hired her and she was a badass. So it's not
always what you think at the consultation. But that's why
I want you to take that parenting plan and really say, no,
this is the level of person I'm dealing with, and
this is how much protection I need. And if they
don't buy into that detail, that's not your attorney.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I think this is a great place for us to
take a pause in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
We have so much more to talk about.
Host
Jana Kramer
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