Whine About It: The D-Word

Almost half of all marriages end in divorce. Unfortunately it is a reality for many couples, so Jana is sitting down with Phil Yagoda, creator of TheExit.com, for a conversation about taking the taboo out of divorce.
 
Learn where to find resources if you or a loved one is going through a divorce, and find out some helpful tips on how to live the life YOU want.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wine Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio podcast. All Right,
so on this week's Wine About It Thursday Therapy, We've
got His name is Phil Yagoda. So he's a retired
Wall Street executive who has been happily married for twenty
five years. Has created a website he hopes will be
a top destination for people going through divorces and breakups.

(00:22):
Phil Yagoda spent more than two decades on Wall Street,
including a stint as a managing director at a bank.
He launched The Exit in December with content focus on
what couples can expect to encounter emotionally and financially during
a divorce, and how to navigate the often painful twists
and turns. Let's get him up, Okay. I am so
excited to have you on because I really can could

(00:46):
have used this website about two years ago when I
was going through my divorce. But I'm just when I
was reading the breakdown, I was like, wait a minute,
married guy twenty five years he is doing you know
this this website called the Exit dot com. So I'm curious.
I mean, I know you've experienced probably through friends and family,

(01:07):
but have you experienced a divorce personally, No, Um, honestly,
I'm one of the lucky ones. I found my best friend,
my soulmate, my rock, my everything, um, twenty five years
ago and we've been together ever since. Um, fact, we
just had our engagement anniversary. I'm the one who remembers. Okay,

(01:30):
that's really cute that a guy remember is an engagement anniversary,
because I don't know many guys that would remember that
at all. Yeah. My wife's like, all right, enough, it's
not a real anniversary, but to me, to me, it
really is. It's, um, you know, the day that you
kind of came together. And I was like, that was
one of the most nervous days I ever had, because
up to that point, you know, you're just young, you're

(01:53):
going out, you're doing whatever, and you know you want
to settle down with the girl your dreams, and you
hope she said yes. In fact, it was really cold
and she took a couple of minutes. I was like,
all right, either say yes or no. But how old
were you when you got engaged. I was twenty four, Okay,
so young, which is actually, you know, amazing that you

(02:16):
guys are still married to this day too, because I
feel like a lot of young marriages could potentially also
end in divorce. Yeah, I mean, I think when when
you look at marriages from any different standpoint, you basically
you're taking two people from two different backgrounds, from two
different states. In this situation, I was from New York,
she's from Atlanta. Um. You know, two different sets of parents,

(02:39):
two different sets of growing up like everything that shapes you. Um,
you went to different schools, different whatever. Um. And to
be able to stay together through all that really is
as it's a real fat I'm not to say like
it's always been great times you have or whatever, but
that's part of any relationship for sure. So how did

(03:01):
the exit come about them? If this is something that's
I mean, you seem to be in a very happy,
happy marriage and you know, for the last twenty five years,
So how did this idea even like come to fruition?
So in my prior life, I was a Wall Street guy,
you know, it was very good math, all that kind
of stuff, and really always was there to help people.

(03:25):
And I get a lot of phone calls from friends, family,
and there was one in particular that this person called
and I was about to walk into a meeting and
I'm like, hey, you know, Mark, I gotta play it back,
and he's like, no, no, you don't understand. She said
she wants a divorce. I'm like, all right, that's horrible.
But I'm literally like walking into this thing. I gotta

(03:47):
call you back, giving an hour, hour and a half.
Just look on the internet. Each state's different, and I'll
play back two minutes later. Like now I'm already in
this conference room. He calls again. He's like, there is
nothing on the internet. There's only divorced lawyer ads. I'm like,
I got to call it back. Let me just step
through this. Later on that day when I got back

(04:09):
to my office, and even that night, you know, kept
kind of resonating in my head what he said, and
I went online. I'm like, oh my god, there really
is nothing out there that's going to give you all
the information that you would really need when you're going
through something like this, which a lot of people would say,

(04:32):
you know, it's kind of the toughest times in their lives.
You would think that there would be more information out
there for something that affects fifty percent of the population.
So it's it was kind of didn't really make sense
to me. And so I went to a company kind
of had them kind of scrub the internet see if

(04:53):
I was wrong, I'm like missing something, I'd do whatever,
and it came back. There was nothing out there like
this where there's a kind of like the web MD
of health, but this is the web D of like divorce,
where you still can you can go, you can try
and find out as much information and you can. Again,
everyone's situation is different, so it can be a low
generic in different areas, and so you always should go

(05:14):
and seek help from a professional. But that being said,
you know, in terms of having one place that's going
to have so much information you still it's kind of
like with web MD you can help diagnose yourself. You
still have to go to Mayo Clinic to get the surgery,
you still have to go to an attorney to get divorced.
But this is something that will hopefully give people the

(05:36):
most amount of information where they can not just survive
through this, but hopefully strive. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm
you know, looking at the site and stuff. You know,
one of the things is breakup plans. So when you
go to it, it's like there's articles like how divorce
mediation can save you time, money, and emotional stress. There's
a pet custody plan, how excess you know, keep their

(05:57):
pet pop happy? How to find the best divorce attorney
for you? Can you diy divorce? It might be easier
than you think. And then you have other articles you
know about name changes, which lord, that is like the
most stressful. I've done it one too many times, the
name change thing. It's just like it's stressful. But you know,

(06:17):
are these articles written? Are these things that you've just
gotten from the internet. Are this someone that kind of
works in the exit? No? Actually, so we have a
diverse group of writers who are professionals on and basically
experts in the field that which they're writing on, and
or are their professionals who are published who we go
out and commission to go and write articles based on

(06:41):
what most people are searching for on the internet. And
they go in the interview doctors, lawyers, you know, countance,
mental health and wellness experts, because that is something that's
very important to me to make sure that people stay
as sane as possible through this. I try to tell
people like, look at like Ted Lasso in a way, right,

(07:03):
like look it stinks now, yeah, but it will. You
will get through it. It will get better, and you
just have to mentally be prepared to you know, face
some situations. I mean, look, if you're not getting along
that marriage, going through divorcees is going to be you know,
even more stressful and difficult sometimes between the two parties.

(07:23):
And so you know, try and advise people. Hey, there's
two ways to do it. It could be as confrontational
as possible, or you know, try and try and do
it the right way. Like you know, try and have
as much I try to do with as much class
as possible, because everything you do now will affect you
later on. Right, you're always going to have a relationship

(07:44):
with this person, especially of kids. But whether you own
something together, whether um, you know you have to sell assets,
buy different things, back, do whatever you have to do
within your relationship. You will come into contact with this
person again. So just do it, you know, just do
it the way you can. Yeah, and you also have
a UM so there's breakup, planned finances, children, health and

(08:06):
moving on. And you know under the children one which
I share with my acts, I've got to two kids
and um, you know you have a co parenting advice.
How to make the transition between households easier of her
parents and kids. I mean, this is all really helpful
things like how to manage vacations with your kids in X.
I mean that's just these are all things that I
would have loved to have had. Um right going going

(08:28):
through mine, and um, I love that you're hitting on
all you you also hit on there's a domestic abuse
story in there. I mean, this is all it's it's
hitting every um emotion and every also every step right
that you have to go through. And UM, I'm curious
to do partner with any any therapy places for the

(08:50):
moving on step. Yeah. So the only I guess affiliate
partnership i'd say we have is with divorce dot com. Okay, Um,
basically if someone can do it on their own, you know, look,
divorce is very expensive and so if you have a
non high you know it's not a high complict or
a non conflict divorce, and you can do this. Divorce
dot com to us is you know one wait, what

(09:13):
is divorce dot com? Is it just like is that
its own lawyer? Can you kind of do it like
a like a tax turbo almost you know, you can
look at it almost like a legal zoom in a
way where um, they'll provide you based on a certain yes,
pricing structure, the information and and documents that you need

(09:35):
to fill out for them to either follow for you
or based again on the different levels. Um, you know,
if you want to speak with an attorney or if
it's something you really can do on your own. Um,
there's like I guess an ala carte menu, but they
really are great and I have done a great job
and have done many many Um. Divorces online. Interesting, Okay,

(10:08):
I'm curious. Have people come to you and started asking
you questions about divorce like you're almost a lawyer or
someone that It's like, Hey, for example, like my X
and I, we didn't have a prenup and then you know,
and then I made him sign a post and up.
But then I found out later that what it doesn't
really hold up more in court. So I'm like, well, what,
like why did I even have him signed it? And
so there's things that I you know, I would I

(10:30):
would probably I'm sure people will be asking you to
go well, like like you're almost a lawyer or something. Yeah. Again,
at the end of the day, everyone's situation is different,
whether it's financial or legal. I mean even the states
that you live in, whether it's common common law, or
community property. I mean, every every state is different. But yeah,

(10:52):
a lot of people have either sent in questions, called up,
find you on the street. It's it's it's kind of
all encompassing. But there's nothing better than when you feel
that you've actually tried to help someone. And in this
situation when again you're just there's always one person who's blindsided, right,

(11:14):
even if you're going to therapy and doing whatever. Once
once you gets served, you're like, oh my god, what
just happened. That's the person who is usually so confused,
so scared. So I mean, I guess there's so many
emotions like they feel abandoned, lonely, helpless, worthless, I thank
all these different things. That's the other thing that we're

(11:35):
really trying to do with divorce. We're trying to basically
reposition it. You know, too many times now divorces looked
at it's almost like a taboo, and you know it.
I didn't come up with this, but someone once said
it's you know, sometimes a good divorce is better than
a bad marriage. And so if we can reposition the
divorce where it's not a failure, but it's an opportunity

(11:57):
to move on and have the life maybe that you wanted.
You know, everyone deserves a second chance and so and
sometimes third or fourth. But in any of these situations,
we want to be here to again guide people the
best that we possibly can so they can live that
life that they want. Sure, and it's got to feel great,

(12:17):
like you said, to have people come up to you
and be like, hey, this really helped me or you know,
get through and have the resources because like you said,
you can one off Google, you know what's better mediation
or whatever. But to have a layout of some amazing
articles for each step along the way, I mean, that's
got to feel really good to know that you're helping

(12:38):
people with that through a really through the hardest I mean,
I wouldn't wish to divorce on my worst enemy. Yeah,
you know it really especially when you have children. Yeah,
there's so many different aspects that that these decisions affect.
And sometimes even when you have two xs that are
going at each other, you know, it could be anything

(13:01):
of like you can't use that other house right now, Well,
you know, the kids that's closer to where they need
to be. You know, whatever situation. Sometimes the spouses are
going at each other and it's affecting others, and it's
affecting those around you. Um, it could be your family,
your friends, your children, and so it really it does

(13:22):
feel great when you when you're trying to help someone
and if you can ease that burden at all, a
lot of times they'll have, you know, clearer decisions instead
of you know, when you're all foggy and you have
so much stuff going on, Um, we can help them
kind of clear their head, kind of you know, be
a little bit myopic in terms of what you need
to do on your journey. Then I think it's really

(13:44):
going to be a success. And we have, um, you know,
even Laura Losser, who I don't know if you like, Yeah,
she's she's great and she's even an advisor to be
to the exit. So you know, it's great when you
have someone who really cares. I mean she she does.
I think she's great. She wrote this book once. It

(14:05):
doesn't have to be this way. Yep, you know, she
wants to see things work out, and I couldn't be
happier to have anyone working with us. But it's also
amazing when you see some people that really have had
the means when you're going through this say wow, I
wish I had this twenty years ago. But I want,
I mean, I hope this really gets going because at

(14:27):
the end of the day, I want to make sure
everyone who doesn't it doesn't have the ability to reach
out to an attorney every ten minutes when you know,
you get something else at different texts, at different whatever,
that that these people, that everyone out there has that
same ability to help, you know, get through again what
you said something you wouldn't work, you wouldn't wish on

(14:48):
your worst worst enemies. Yeah, and even you know, just
some people don't have the support system that other people have,
you know, so to be able to or even have
the means to do therapy, sould be able to kind
of understand and validate people's feelings too during a really
tough time. UM is a beautiful thing. That's actually where

(15:09):
we're going to be transitioning UM. You know with the site,
Like right now, we're really happy with I guess the
feedback has been incredible and we're really happy with the launch.
But you know, I really want to see the site
aside from you know, the content and all that that
that we're providing. I also the next part I want
to build out is community, because, like you said, a
lot of people don't have that that support system. Even

(15:30):
if you have a best friend and every time you're
going out, you're like, yeah, I see what Mark sent
me today or marketed this or marketed or you know
whoever is using that name. I don't know it Mark,
just you know, I know many marks, but I'm not
saying one that's been divorced. Um. After a while, they're like, look,
if every time you go out, you're gonna bring this up,
like I can't take it. And so even your closest

(15:54):
friends sometimes can't be there for you. And so this
community part that I want to build about, I guess
we'll start more with like a blog type of thing
where people will have total anonymity where they can respond
and you know, here a difference opinions and questions that
will be posed. And then I want to I'm actually
starting to talk to someone about using an algorithm to

(16:15):
come up with pods where you know, if I'm a
twenty five year old who just got divorced with no kids,
obviously it's me a lot different than a fifty year
old with three kids. So you want people to be
able to be in pods where things they want to
discuss will be relevant to them. And if they're not
happy in that pod, we can you know, you can
get out and get into another one. Right, but again

(16:37):
with total anonymity and where you can just be yourself.
I love that because even I mean I I had
a great support system, but sometimes there might be questions
that you want to ask that or say, or even
just a voice that you might be embarrassed to say
or you don't um like. I know, for me, I
went like very inward and sometimes I then push people away.

(16:59):
So it's easier to just maybe write out feelings or
a comment toward to have other people to relate to
other people because at the time I was the only
one going through, you know, a divorce in my friend group.
Now there's a few, unfortunately, but you know, now I
kind of can be the voice to be like, I
promise you it gets better and you're gonna be okay
and you're not going to be alone forever. And I

(17:20):
think even just having like that support of other people
too in there will will be really nice for the
people that are like, you know, because that that's where
my dms blow up the most, is like they always say,
am I ever going to be happy again? Am I
ever going to smile? Am I ever going to find
love again? And it's like, I just I know the
despair and the bottom where they're at. That's like there's
so much beauty outside of it. Just it just sucks

(17:43):
the first year like that, there's so many first and
that that first year is just really hard. And so
to have you know, a place especially to start it,
it's like where do you start? Well, the exit, you know,
he starts the exit. So I just I love that.
Well one thing that I also want to start doing
there's basically giving people a way to get back out there, right,

(18:04):
So there's gonna be a lot more with dating and
you know dressing because look, I mean obviously my wardrobe
maybe different if I was you know, going out and
trying to you know, meet people all the time and
do whatever. Uh. I was having dinner with someone who
is it a major law firm and they were like,

(18:25):
you know, someone got divorced in my in my firm,
they can't to my office, and they said, what's like
the cool drink to order? Like I'm going out tonight
for the first time and I don't know how long
wine like exactly. I mean, it's like so it's right,
and so it's amazing that people like they really have

(18:46):
to start over. And what what I noticed was there's
so much always on the front end, right, you prepare
so much for one day when you're getting married, right,
whether it's cater or the flowers, the reception hall, the
church or or shoal or wherever you're gonna be. But

(19:09):
people don't take their time and look at their divorce,
which will affect them for the rest of their lives,
whether it's with assets or you know, just anything that
you're going to be that you had together. And so
you know, giving people that kind of comfort also is
very important to us. Yeah, I love that. Well, Phil,

(19:31):
thank you so much for everything you do. Everyone. If
you were, you know, going through that, We're sorry. Having
said that, there are places and this is this is
the place to go, the number one place, So the
Exit dot Com. You'll check it out and you'll find
some amazing resources and some great article articles that will
help you through this time. And you are not alone.

(19:53):
And you will feel that very soon when they start
the new community tribe. Right, No one walks alone, yes, exactly,
no one walks alone. People have done it before you,
they'll do it after you, and then you get to
help them along the way. Well, everyone does need a
great exit, so there we do exactly. Thank you, Phil,
appreciate you, Thank you so much for having me