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January 24, 2024 15 mins

Secret Service Agent Paul Landis, who was riding in the car behind the President when he was murdered, joins us to talk about his memories of that fateful day. After years of silence, Paul opens up about the assassination, sharing details that may forever change our understanding of what happened on November 22nd, 1963.

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you're working on a story, especially a documentary or
a podcast like this one, in the back of your mind,
there's always the hope that somehow something's going to help
the story break open in a new way, that there
will be breaking news. Our team was in the middle
of putting this podcast together, doing interviews, conducting research, constructing
the episodes when we got an alert that Paul Landis,

(00:28):
one of President Kennedy's Secret Service agents, was coming forward
with new information. A few of the Secret Service agents
that were present that day have given interviews, some have
written books, but mister Landis has never spoken out. As
The New York Times said, he spent much of his
life after Dallas fleeing from history, trying to put the

(00:49):
horror from that day behind him. But now, at age
eighty eight, mister Landis decided to share his memories from
that day, including one moment that can be considered, if
not a smoking gun, a smoking bullet.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Paul Anders was twenty eight years old on November twenty second,
nineteen sixty three, and he was positioned on the running
board of the car directly behind Kennedy as the motorcade
weaved its way through the streets of Dallas and into
Dealey Plaza. He agreed to talk to us about what
he saw that day. Here's more of the interview we

(01:27):
did with him, and I think it paints a vivid
picture of what it was like to witness it all. So, Paul,
the first thing is, can you just describe what you
saw at the moment that the President was hit?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yes, or just after we made turn onto Elm Street
and the two cars, President's limousine and the follow up
car were starting to straighten up behind each other. When
I heard the first shot, I looked at the President.
He was leaning a little bit to his left. He

(02:07):
was raising his arms, and I just thought that he
was reacting to the sound and was turning to see
where the sound came from. I did not realize at
that point that the President had been hit.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
That was the first time he was hit, the first time.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
His arms were flying up from the impact, but I
didn't realize he'd been hit at that time. So I
turned and looking over my right shoulder where the sound
came from, didn't see anything. Scanned down across what became
known as the Grassy Knoll, and I scanned across the

(02:49):
top of the underpass. We were approaching, and that time
I was just happened to be looking in the President's
direction again and the second shot, and just shortly after
the second shot, I heard the third shot. I saw

(03:09):
the presidents had split wide ope on the midst of
blood and flesh and rain matter flew into the air.
I ducked to avoid getting splattered. And at that point
we assumed under the under kass and we were on
our way to park On Memorial Hospital.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
So that fatal shot that you describe, you're saying that
brain matter was flying towards you, right, Yes, how far
behind were you?

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Probably fifteen, no more than twenty feet.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I was standing on the great rear running board of
half back the follow up car.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Then you arrive at Parkland Hospital, and I know there's
all chaos and trying to get the president in and
be treated in all of that. And then you described
this thing, and I know you've said it before, but
I'd look to hear it again in your words, that
you happened to find this a bullet in the back seat.

(04:11):
Can you just explain that.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Pay attention, because this is the part that's breaking news,
a bombshell in the history of the investigation into the
Kennedy assassination.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
Well, I raised to.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
The President's and Missus Kennedy was sitting on the left
center of the rear seat, and when I got there,
I reached over the door, took her by the shoulders
and asked if I could help her, and she said no,
she wanted to stay with family. About that time, Clint

(04:48):
Hill came around, covered the President's head with his suit coat,
and Missus Kennedy released him, and they were starting to
get up. As soon as she's about right behind where
she had been sitting, there was a pristine bullet.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
A pristine bullet in the backseat of the car, the
seat where the President and the First Lady had been sitting.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
I picked this bullet up.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
It was not deformed, other than it had recognized striations
hunt that it had been fired. I'm looking around, I
see no agents behind the car. Everybody was concentrating on
the President, so I didn't know what to do right away,

(05:36):
but I was afraid this bullet was an important piece
of evidence and I didn't want it to get lost.
There were people merging on the car at the time,
so I slipped it in my pocket and raced in
with the journey carrying the president's body.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Now, the bullet that you found, you said that it
was virtually pristine. So did it look like it had
hit anything.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
It could not look like it hit anything.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
All I had was the extridations on the out side.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
It was just like resting on the top of a seat.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
So what do you think, I mean, where do you
think this bullet came from?

Speaker 3 (06:20):
I had no idea where it came from, other than
I was thinking the you know, the president's.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Body, because I mean there was in the autopsy they
showed that a bullet hit him in the back. So
is that possible that maybe that bullet was the one
that hit him in the back.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think that's very possible.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
They didn't discover a back room until we got that
to Washington.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I want to pause here in this interview for just
a moment and make sure that everybody understands the significance
of what mister Landis is sharing with us.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
Rob.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Can you explain it completely destroys the single bullet theory.
I mean, we already knew the theory made absolutely no sense,
But the discovery of this bullet in the back seat
of Kennedy's limo puts the final nail in its coffin.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Walk me through what's so powerful about this information?

Speaker 2 (07:15):
As our listeners know, the single bullet theory holds that
one bullet supposedly entered Kennedy's back six to eight inches
below his neck, then traveled up, exited his neck, then
made a turn, entered Governor Connolly's back, broke bones in
his wrist before winding up in his thigh, and somehow

(07:38):
the bullet ends up virtually pristine. So now this pristine
bullet would have to have gone through both the President
and Governor Connolly, breaking multiple bones, then somehow bounced back
into the backseat of the car. And if somehow this
bullet didn't accomplish all this, it means there had to

(08:00):
be more than one shooter, making it a conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Okay, while we digest that, let's go back to the
Landis interview and hear what else he has to say.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
You put the bullet in your pocket, and then you
followed them into Parkland Hospital, and then then what did
you do with the bullet?

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
We raced across the emergency room entrance, we made a turn,
went down a hallway, and we arrived at trauma Room one.
There was a crowd of people that had joined us
at that point, and it was kind of pushed into
the room. I was just forced up against the examination table,

(08:42):
right next to his feet. Thought that this is a
perfect place to leave the bullet. So I reached into
my pocket, took it out and placed it by the
presidents left shoe.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
And what was the reason that you decided to put
it there?

Speaker 3 (09:01):
I just thought it was an important piece of evidence.
Doctors would find it when they did their examination.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Nobody saw the bullet at that point.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
No, because people were shoving, pushing, shouting.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Somebody found it somewhere and entered it into evidence. Do
you have any idea who might have picked that up
or found it?

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, I've read things since how the bullet was found.
Supposedly it was on Connolly's stretcher. I knew that that
was not true. When I saw a picture of the bullet,
my immediate reaction was, Hey, that's my bullet, and I's
not from Governor Connolly's stretcher. I put it next to

(09:45):
the President's feet.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
But obviously somebody either moved it or picked it up
or whatever, because it is in evidence. I mean, we
have pictures of it that we see that were in
into evidence. I don't know if you've seen that picture
of it. Yes, I have.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
I mean, that's what I recognized.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
And I'm just curious why you know at this point
you decided to come forward.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
I've been told. I understand now at the post traumatic
stress I suffered through this for quite a while. I
have to read the Secret Service. I was suffering too much.
The newsreel of the President's had exploring. People have asked

(10:34):
me about Dallas, and I just never talked about it.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Listen, I can understand it because you know, it was
so shocking at the time, and then in the seventies
when the Zuppruder film was first shown to the public.
It's so disturbing and so upsetting. And you were there,
like you said, brain matter is hitting you. I can

(11:02):
see how it's a trauma that is beyond description, and
I can understand not wanting to relive that. So the
Warren Commission, they never asked you to testify, or they
never questioned you or interviewed you.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
No, I assumed.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Once I knew the Warren Commission had been created, I said, well,
I'm going to be in for an interview here. And
I was dreading it. I was glad it never happened
because I knew I would break it down there and
that was a very good image for secrets of this agent.

(11:41):
The Warren Commission never interviewed any of the other agents
that were in the follow up car.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well, listen, you know, I can't tell you how much
I appreciate you giving me some time to talk. This
has been something I've been thinking about since the day
had happened. And you know, every time you hear some
new information that may shed more light on what happened

(12:08):
that day, people like me and you know we're getting older,
you know, who still care about this, are grateful to
hear from you and hear what you had to say.
So I just want to thank you so much for
giving me the time.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Well, thank you for offering me the opportunity. I appreciate
it very much.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
That was amazing, and not just what we learned from
him and the implication that it has on our understanding
of the assassination, but he's another person whose life was
profoundly impacted by this tragedy. I cannot imagine living with
what he has seen for all of these years.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Absolutely, and it's amazing that He's coming forth now to
share what he saw, and it brings absolutely true. For years,
the pristine bullet was a mystery, not just how was
in such good shape, but how it was found lying
on that stretcher. Nobody could plausibly explain how it got there.
But now we have a secret service agent who finds

(13:10):
the bullet in the back seat of Kennedy's car and
wanting to make sure nobody took it as a souvenir,
he picks it up puts it on the President s Kearnie.
This is the most significant piece of the puzzle that
we've been trying to solve for sixty years. Who Killed JFK?

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Is hosted by Rob Reiner and Me Solidad O'Brien and
Our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George,
Jason English, David Hoffman, and Me Solidad O'Brien. Our writer
is David Hoffman, with research by Dick Russell. Our story
editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior producer

(13:58):
is Julie Pinnero. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell,
Michelle Goldfein, and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash,
Julie Pineto, and Marcus de Lauro.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Our project manager is Carol Klein.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Our associate producer is emilse Kiros. Mixing, mastering and sound
design by Ben la Hulier, Research and fact checking by
Girl Friday and emilse Kiros, Business affairs by Hennan Nadea
and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Razanne Galliini. Recorded
in part at CDM Studio and Fourth Street Recording Studio.

(14:37):
Show logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Production assistants by Rocco Del
Prior and Grace Barron. Special thanks to Johonig Rose Arsa
and Dan Storper. If you're enjoying the show, leave us
a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who
Killed JFK as a production of Solidad O'Brien Productions and

(14:58):
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