Jamie Scrimgeour

LeAnn and stepmom expert, life coach and podcast host Jamie Scrimgeour bond over the trials and tribulations of building a functional, fulfilling blended family- with humor and tons of takeaway tips for all families.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I
Heart Radio. Welcome my Loves to Today's Holy Human. I
am going to get very personal on this episode, not
that I don't in every episode, but this one in particular,

(00:23):
because we are going to be diving into some very
real topics that are near and dear to my heart
and I know many of yours too, which is cultivating
a functional, fulfilling, blended family while navigating the complications of
step parenting, which can be complex. I'll be joined by
the refreshingly candid Jamie scrim Jewer, host of the kick

(00:47):
Ass step Mom podcast, for some seriously honest and open conversation,
and don't worry, there are a lot of universal takeaways
to all on Today's Holy Humane Act. Jamie, thank you

(01:25):
so much for coming on the podcast. I I've been
watching you from afar for a while now, like over Instagram,
and there are very few women who actually want to
discuss being a stepmom. And I'm just so grateful that
you're sharing your experience in the world, because I know

(01:45):
there's been very few places for me to go and
feel like I'm connecting with someone else who's a stepmom,
and I feel a lot less alone in the world.
So thank you. Thank you for putting your journey out
there so vulnerably, because I know it's not easy. Yeah, no,
it's definitely not. And thank you for saying that, because
that it just means so much when you hear another

(02:05):
step mom say that what you do matters, because it is.
It's so vulnerable, right, and you're putting yourself out there
and you're saying, you know, your deepest, darkest secrets and
the way you're feeling online. And there's been so many
times when I'm like, what am I doing? What am
I thinking right now? Right like starting a step mom blogger,
you know, sharing my experience on my podcast. It's I

(02:28):
questioned myself. And then I talked to another step mom
and you get a d M and you're like, oh, yeah,
I'm talking about this because when I became a stepmom,
no one was talking about it, no one was no
one was saying anything, and I didn't realize the way
that I was feeling. Everyone else was feeling too, but
no one felt comfortable saying it out loud. Yes, yes,

(02:48):
you knelled it. I'll talk about my stepson's and being
a stepmom during the middle of my show, and I'll
kind of prompt the audience to be like, yeah, like
if you're a stepmom, and it's usually islands, come on, now,
I know there are blended families in this audience. There's
probably more blended families than not. And finally I'll get

(03:08):
people like admitting to the fact that they're a part
of a blended family. And it's it's wild, like it's
such a taboo topic. So when I when I saw
you taking on like all these different topics so publicly,
I applauded you from a distance because I know, like
I said, I know it the resistance that comes at

(03:29):
me just during a show. Or you think people would
be like, we're totally on team blended family, and people
are like, m yeah, there's no real team, Like no
one's like people were probably like half as raising their
step mom because yeah, it's you know, there is still
so much stigma and such a double standard when it

(03:51):
comes to moms and step moms and the way that
step moms are viewed in our society and it's mind
bloin to me because there's so many step moms like
this is this is not an uncommon family situation, but
yet here we all are still struggling to talk about it.
Yeah for sure, and before I totally want to go
down that road with you. But before we get into it,

(04:12):
I would love to know how you became a stepmoment yourself.
Hold were you? What was that whole? I think I
was young and had no idea. So I was turning
to six and I started dating my husband, who is
He's thirteen years older than me, so you know, he
had three kids, He had an established life, a home
where we live now actually in you know, Hamlet and

(04:35):
southwestern Ontario. We have a wheat field for a backyard.
I was living in the city and uh, you know,
working as a child protection worker. So we were two very,
very different lives, but you know, we were just kind
of madly in love all in and I didn't really
think about what life would be as a stepmom. I
just thought I'd figure it out and I had My

(04:56):
parents were divorced. I work in child protection, back ground,
in psychology, worked with kids. Like I felt like I
had all the things I needed to you know, be
a successful step mom because I've done it on professionally.
I I supported so many families. I became a Stepma myself,
and I realized, you know, very quickly that you know,

(05:18):
being the expert on the outside and living it in
real life, there's so many different Well it's just the emotions, right,
you don't know how it's going to feel. And uh so, yeah,
I got it really overwhelmed very quickly. And I think,
you know, for me, looking back, we had so many doubters, right,
like so many people, you know, having opinions about our relationship.

(05:39):
I was young, like, did I know what I was
signing up for? You know, was I ready for kids?
You know, was I this like, well, yeah, I know
who was ready for kids? No? No, I didn't, um,
but you know, was I this rebound because you know,
the new young wife? Like it was just like a stereotype, right,
So there was a lot of a lot of doubters

(06:01):
in our lives. And even my dad straight up told
me not to marry them, Like my dad was like no,
my mom was like no. In fact, at my wedding,
my dad and in his speech said, you know, I
told Jamie not to do this, but she, you know,
told me to go f myself. Basics. Is I appreciate

(06:22):
that was a good way. It was a really touching
wedding speech. Um. But yeah, there's so many people who
just thought that this wasn't going to work. And so
I think my big thing at the beginning was I
was trying so hard to be perfect and have it
all together and not say I was struggling and and
all of that, and inside I was like, oh my gosh,
what was I thinking, Like this is so much harder
than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, I

(06:44):
was twenty eight, and I was still like I felt
like I had grown up so much certain parts of
me and then other parts of me were still very young,
and I was so in love, like I didn't think
you don't think about that side of it. You just
think love can conquer all and everything will just work
out and everybody's gonna like me eventually, and you know,
like I can make this work, Like I'm I'm always

(07:06):
one of those people that's like if if I put
my mind to it, like everything's going to be okay.
And then you get like five six years in and
you're like what the fuck, Like I can't control everybody
and everyone, And you know, I think that that's been
such a I mean, there's been so many lessons I
think step mamahood as Um definitely taught me so much

(07:30):
about myself and about my boundaries. Like I didn't even
know what boundaries were until I started to have to
deal with, you know, not only an expouse, but also children,
like children that we're very different because one was six
and one was two when I started, you know, hanging
around them, so it was they had both very different
experiences of me and as I of them. So it

(07:53):
was wild for me. At least, it was an afterthought
that I just thought I could make work and everything
would be fine, and it's it was a very loud
reality of something completely completely different. It was, Yeah, it's
been a wild ride. Yeah for sure, And you know,
I love what you said. They're like, well, I just
kind of dove in and I didn't think about it

(08:14):
too much. And I get step Mom's reach out to
me all the time before they get married, and like,
well they're dating and I am. I always want to
say to them, if you're going to over analyze the
stuff now, like you're you're gonna really just ruin it.
You're you're overthinking it. Like if you're in, you're in.
If not, like you got to go because this is
not going to be easy, right, Like it was almost

(08:36):
like that ignorance was bliss because you know, it brought
me to the place that I am at now. And
if I would have known everything, I don't know if
I would have allowed myself to fall in love, you know,
like I wouldn't have put myself in that situation. Who knows,
but that like that's hindsight, But there's a lot of

(08:57):
challenges that I did not see. Kemming. Oh, yeah, do
we have that much control of our hearts at the
end of the day, I'm not really sure. Very true,
very true. But I can say it now. You can't. Yes,
you can say it now. Like I said, I love
that you share your journey so openly. I love that
you coach. You do coach right, you coach step moms.
Do you work with would you work with bio moms? Also? Like,

(09:18):
do you work in that kind of situation where you
work on the relationship with two people? No? I don't,
But I've always thought about doing some mediation stuff because
I feel like it would be really good to get
two people and you know, the mom and step mom
like in the same room and just like have this
conversation there's this book. It's called No One's a Bit Um.
I didn't read the whole thing, so I can't speak

(09:39):
to the entire book, but halfway through um. It's written
by a mom and by a step mom and a
bio mom, and they recall in the book the same experience,
like the same event, in two completely different ways. And
it's so crazy because they both experienced that exact same
meeting of each other and how each other showed up

(10:02):
completely different. And I think that's so important to remember too,
when we're in these situations, like the way mom is
experiencing this, the way the kids are experiencing this, the
way we're experienced this, Like we're all experiencing this really
tricky situation from our own lens, based on our own wounding,
our own triggers, our own stories, And I think that's

(10:23):
the missing piece here, right, And just seeing like it's
everyone everyone has their own perspective. Yeah, I remember that
being such a huge awakening for me when I understood
that every single person has a different lens, And like
you're saying, it's built up from the moment that we're
you know, born, through all of our different experiences and

(10:44):
then we show up in this moment, and then this
moment is seen through our own lens. And I was
so fascinated just psychologically by that of no, two fingerprints
are the same, same with the lens in which we're
looking through, they're not the same. I guess I started
to have a lot greater you're standing and capacity for
empathy when I started to try to understand the lens

(11:06):
in which others were seeing things through. And there's been
certain times in my situation where I'm like, that didn't
even happen, like, but according to them, it really did.
And there's been people in our in our circle, in
our family, our whole family unit, where I would definitely
say that what people were expressing did not happen in

(11:27):
the room, but they are so adamant about it. And
so because of people's you know, through the lens of hurt,
because of the lens of insecurity, Like we're all looking
through different lens and depending on the day, you know,
it's given me a lot more compassion for what people
are experiencing or I think that they're experiencing. Yeah, it
brings a lot of meaning to the whole The way

(11:49):
people treat you is more about them than it is
about this very true? Like how true? How true is that?
Like There's been periods of my step motherhood where I
literally had that like on repeat in my head. You
got to like talk yourself through it, right totally? Do
you have to be your own coach? I mean, that's
that's so interesting. You know, when you when you start

(12:09):
to go and look up all you know, information about
stepmotherhood or about you know, the experience itself, there's really
not There's not a lot out there. Why do you
think that is? And what made you what made you
want to jump in the fire of I'm going to
be the guide that that helps all of these women
on this journey. Yeah, I don't know. I know it

(12:32):
kind of happened by accident. Really. I when I was
in university and out of the university, I was fascinated
by blogs and I was I just kind of always
thought about having a blog and I would just I
wrote this blog as well, and it wasn't a big thing,
but I always thought it was cool when someone from
like Australia would read it or something like that, and
it was interesting when you know. So there was a

(12:54):
really big pivotal night in my life as a step
mom and I was on the floor. I was crying
in the bathroom with wine, and I was like, I
think I'm out. I I think I think I've been
there before. Yeah, I think every stepma haas. And I
was like, I think I'm done, Like this is this
is too much? Right? I everyone was right, I made
a mistake. I'm out. That night, I was like, I'm

(13:15):
either going to get in my car and go far
far away, or I'm going to figure this out and
I'm going to be a damn good stepmom. And so
I went to the internet. I was like googling stuff,
and there was just a lot of bashing, step mom bashing.
There was a lot of hate, There was a lot
of step mom stereotypes, Like there was really nothing that

(13:36):
resonated with me, and like the support that I did
find about how a step mom should act. I was
reading like do you even have step kids? Like do
you even know how this feels? Like sorry, I can't
take this from like a general parenting expert, because if
you're if you're not in it, you don't understand it.
So I started blogging about it. Never in my life

(13:58):
did I think that anyone would really read it to
be quite honest, like I would. I was just kind
of doing it at this point. We had a baby.
So just to back up, my husband and I got
together in March, got moved in in July, got engaged
in October. No, yeah, I got engaged in October, married

(14:19):
in June, pregnant in August, and a baby in in May.
So like there was a lot going on, and then
all of a sudden, everything settled and I was like, Okay,
I have three kids, three step kids and a baby
and a husband, and I have a wheat field for
a backyard and I don't know what is happening right
with my life and I'm not I'm not even thirty,
and uh so, yeah, that that's kind of how it

(14:41):
all started. And then I started to get messages from
people from all over thanking me for saying the things
that they were afraid to say, and it really just
kind of transformed from there. I was like, wow, there
is something here. And at that point, no one was
talking about step parenting online other than just kind of
like the bashing Facebook groups. So I just kind of
went all in and and here we are. Now. I

(15:03):
love it. I think it's very brave and I you know,
I'm sure there's got to be a lot of intense
energy that comes at you from both sides. I mean,
there's step moms who are angry and frustrated, and there's
bio moms who are angry and frustrated for different reasons.
I mean, how do you handle that as a blogger?
How do you handle that kind of energy that comes

(15:25):
at you on the Internet. I've had a lot of
it coming me from from for different reasons, and I honestly,
this is the first conversation that I've really had about
this topic. And I've been a bit afraid for the
past twenty fo hours because it is you. When I
speak on this, A lot of times I feel like
I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't, and yeah, okay,

(15:47):
well thanks. It's not just a feeling. It's but at
the same time, I know I'm at a place where
I can speak very clearly on my own experience. I've
come to terms with being able to handle the energy
that comes at me because I know who I am.
I wondered what your experience is like, because you are

(16:09):
so blatantly like entering these worlds you know, in their
heavy topics I did actually get a really good hate
mail from a husband the other day. So the step
mom had been, you know, following my content, and I
had been talking about boundaries and talking about you know,
trying to set some stuff, and sometimes people take a

(16:30):
little bit and then don't take the whole thing, and
maybe her delivery of my messaging wasn't completely aligned with
what I was actually saying, and so he wasn't happy.
Every once in a while, I get a I get
a really good email from someone who's really upset, and
it comes back to it's not about me. You know,
it really isn't about me. And I think that because

(16:52):
you know, when I present myself, when I'm having conversations online,
I am pretty no bullshit in the way that I
show up. So I don't think I get as much
hate as people think I would. That's good. So I
don't know if they're just anticipating that I'm going to
create content about it, because typically I will make it

(17:13):
as a conversation piece. In fact, often I will get
people say, hey, this is how I'm feeling about something
you said. Please don't share this um and create content
on it. But so I've just kind of created that
type of relationship with my community. And then when people
are rude like block, block and bless like see you later,
Like this is my page. And if you're not here

(17:34):
to be respectful and to grow with each other and
to just be open and honest, then you don't belong here.
So I have no problem just blocking that and just
and just saying saying goodbye block and blessed. I like
that was like later, I just don't have time for it, right.
And here's the thing we haven't. Like when you're a

(17:54):
step mom, you've got enough drama and stuff in your
own life, even when things are good. It's like what
Stepma Magazine says, like even when it's good, it's complicated.
You don't have time for other stuff. So for me,
it's really been about being very careful about how I
talk about things. You know, I'm I'm very deliberate about
what I say and don't stay online. So you will
never hear me talk down about my stepkids. Mom. You

(18:16):
will never hear me, you know, say anything negative about
my step kids. If at any point in time anyone
my family was like that made me feel uncomfortable that
you put that, I would be like, it's off right,
Like my number one priority is always going to be
my family. And I think that's what actually makes me
different than a lot of other step mom bloggers because
I say this all the time, but like sitting around
bitching about how terrible the exes or you know, how

(18:39):
hard being a stepmamas, it's not going to make it
any easier, Like it really does. The change does start
with you. And I love when I hear other step
moms say that it has been like this huge evolution,
this personal evolution. They've learned so much about themselves and
their triggers and and just grown so much as a person,
because that's what happens, that which it's all about. Yeah,

(19:02):
I mean, it really has been the most expansive journey.
Like you know, my relationship with Eddie has been incredibly expansive,
and to be able to have the safety and in
relationship like I do with him has been super expansive.
But the other and probably even more expansive than that,
has been my role as a stepmom and navigating so

(19:24):
many different personalities and also disengaging without being disconnected, which
can be very confusing. I think, I don't know, there's
been that's been a huge piece for me. Another huge
piece has been and you mentioned like drama within the relationship.
One of the things that I had to look at
and still do sometimes is like how hooked in am

(19:47):
I to drama? How much do I get off on that?
Because I think it's so easy in these relationships, because
they can be so high conflict, to get sucked into
it and it be almost like a high, especially when
you get used to it. If it's not there, you're like, wait,
it feels something feels wrong because it feels calm. When

(20:09):
we started to have less of a high conflict experience,
I started to ask myself like how much of this
am I causing a and and desiring like actually wanting
because it fed me in some way. And it was
such an interesting exploration because now if I see myself

(20:30):
like trying to get hooked into it, I'm like, nope,
not not my not my thing. I want peace in
my life, like peace really, And I think because of
how I my life has never really been peaceful since
I was a child. Just by growing up the way
that I did and having to really unhooked from the
drama and really make peace a priority has been such

(20:51):
a huge shift in my own journey and I would
have never I mean, I'm sure life would have found
another way to teach me. But step you know, this
step mom experience has been you know, to put my
piece first above anything has been super super important for me.
I love that because I'm a firm believer that you know,
everyone here has a lesson they need to learn, right,

(21:12):
and you know what's your lesson? Like You're going to
find yourself in the same situation over and over and
over again until you learn the lesson that you need
to learn. So I'm always saying to step ims, like
just stop and ask yourself what the lesson is, and
they're like, no, you don't understanding. His ex wife is
doing this, his stepkids are doing that, like my stepkids
are doing this, Like this is you don't get it.

(21:33):
I'm like, no, I do, I get it, But what
is this trying to teach you? Like, where's the lesson
here for you? And as soon as you shift that,
I think as a step mom and you start to
see that from a different lens, You're like, oh, okay, yeah,
this is a little bit about me right, Yes, for sure,
and this is a good time for a quick break.

(21:55):
But we'll be right back. Welcome back my friends. The
cool stepmom guru, Jamie scrim Jew and I were just
talking about the blowbacks that can come from offering stepparenting advice.
One of the more challenging pieces of being a stepmom.

(22:17):
There's multiple, many, but one of the things that I
feel like is not talked about enough is the loneliness
that can occur when going through this experience. Especially you know,
I don't have Eddie and I do not have children
of our own, and because of that, a lot of
times for me, it's felt like I've been placed. It's

(22:38):
like I've been injected into this family system and it
can be really, really lonely. I think that's one of
the I don't think I've even realized how lonely it
was until maybe a few years ago, and I'm like,
oh this. I feel there's a sense of loneliness in
this container that I don't feel like. I don't know,
I don't feel like it's talked about enough. What's been

(23:00):
what's been your experience with with that? Yeah, I definitely
think I felt that a lot at the beginning, especially
before I had Race, that was a I felt very lonely.
Actually even after I had Race, because it felt like
they had their things and when the kids would come

(23:22):
for we had week one week off, so when the
kids would come, it was just like all kids, like
all kids focused, which rightfully, so like kids have hockey,
they have all the things. Like kids, we have to
take care of the people. Um, but it was kind
of like where do I fit in here? Like where
where do my needs fit in here? And I did.

(23:43):
I felt very much like an outsider. And then when
we had Race, so the kids would still have their
busy lives, and then I had this baby, so then
I wasn't even involved in their busy lives as much
because I was at home with this baby. And that
was really lonely for me too, because I was like, well,
if I was in a step mom, we would be
here together, right Like I felt like I kind of

(24:05):
missed out on that new mom experience because we had
all of the kids all that, Like the kids were
there and we were running around like that. So yeah,
I definitely was lonely. But I like what you just
said there is like you didn't realize it was lonely
until you really dove into it. Because I don't know
if I would have identified it as being lonely as

(24:27):
much as I would have just been piste off. I mean, right, well,
it's funny that you mentioned piste off because when I
dove into your book The d and Twenty Ways to
Be a Kick as step Mom, Yeah, which I loved,
um And it did piss me off in a couple
of places, which I loved also because what it did
was I haven't really had to revisit these pieces of

(24:50):
my experience, and it brought up some leftover resentment and
anger that is still the air. And what I started
to question, like, where is this coming from? Who is it?
Who am I projecting this toward? And it's not my
um my stepson's mom at all. Actually, it has nothing

(25:12):
to do with her. What it started, what really brought
up for me was my resentment towards society and the
stereotypes that are still that still exists. And how much
of when you're in my position or you're in your
position where you're you're openly discussing these experiences, how much

(25:33):
projection gets projected upon you of what people haven't yet
to deal with on their own. And yeah, I was
I still today. I was just talking about it before
we got on here, I was like, I'm still angry,
Like there's still anger that I've that's not that's left over,
And it's because I really haven't had to look at,

(25:54):
you know, these these places in my life because my
my my situation has shifted um in our family unit,
um to one that is more peaceful, kind of left
left things to be and without really dealing with certain
feelings I've had around the experience. And so yeah, so
thanks for that, Thanks for dredging that up. I really

(26:18):
appreciate it. But you know, it's interesting because I I
think my own journey has been you know, like you said,
you wouldn't have called it loneliness. I think my journey
for myself, my own healing, has been about really finding
words and finding having a vocabulary for this array of
feeling that is this step mom experience. It's it's very complex,

(26:42):
and I think one of the best tools that I've
ever given myself is the ability to express it and
know what's coming up for me and and claim it
as my own and not projected upon the other people
in this experience. Yeah, for sure. And you know, just
to go back for a second, step moms in our

(27:03):
society It really is so confusing, right because you're talking before,
you're saying, well, how do you know what to do
as a step mom? And the thing is is there
really is no right way. So what works for one
family isn't right for another. So you know, there are
step moms who are all in as like the motherly
role in the home, and they have that relationship with
the kids, they have that great co parenting relationship. So

(27:26):
for them to like swipe an iPad or to ground
a kid or to you know, implement something new, it's
received well because everyone's that's what works for that situation, right.
So those are the situations where it's like, yeah, the
step mom is a mom and this family too, and
everyone's on board. Then you know there's step moms who
maybe aren't connecting with their step kids. So you have
step moms who don't have that great relationship and they

(27:48):
have this guilt because they're supposed to love their step
kids like they're their own, but they don't have those feelings.
Or you know, you have the step moms who do
love the step kids like their their own. But then
people are, well, you need to respect the role of
the mom, and you know you're a real mom, but
you're actually not a real mom. Let the real parents
handle the parenting, like you know, like there's just a

(28:10):
confused messages about how a step mom should and shouldn't
show up. So when you say, like I'm damned if
I do, I'm damned if I don't, it's true. So
that's why it's really about getting right with yourself and
like what works for you and your family, because otherwise
there there is no right answer. Yeah, it's very complicated,

(28:30):
and you're right, it is very unique to each family
unit because some families have everyone is present, some families,
you know, have the mother or father or whatever it
may be, may not be in the picture. My journey
with that has been really interesting because I feel like
the more secure I became within myself, I have been

(28:51):
able to navigate the relationships, whether it be with my
stepsons or Eddie or with Brandy. Like I've feel like
it's always come back to my own sense of security
and not taking things personally and just letting people have
their experience. And the more I could do that and

(29:11):
the more, like I said to the disengaging without detaching
has been really that's been a that's been a tight
rope walk for me, and I'm sure a lot of
people can relate to that. It's like you want to care,
but at the same time, you don't want to care
too much. I don't want to get hurt in this,
or I don't want to hurt anyone else in this.

(29:34):
I want to still allow people to have their experience.
I think, you know, the more, like I said, the
more I can just be with my own experience them,
the less hurt a cause in the in the family
unit is what I've learned. Were you guys always on
the same page with like the kids in terms of
expectations and like parenting and that kind of stuff. No,

(29:57):
I'm not. Sometimes some days we are still some as
we aren't. And it's really interesting because I, you know,
Eddie really wanted me a part of his experience and
to be a part of their life, and I have been.
And I also know as they've gotten older, I've known
and to back away and be like, hey, I'm here,
like if you want to talk about anything, like you know,

(30:18):
I'm here for it. And I let them have their
own experience with their parents. And I sometimes can get
caught in the middle of everybody too, and everybody's like,
be on my side. I'm like, nope, I'm just gonna
go over here. You guys have at it. We were
actually all in the house the other day and everybody
was having their own experience, and I just went laid
down on the couch. I was like, I'm just gonna

(30:39):
observe from over here and then and everybody can do
their own thing. Like some days I feel like we're
on the same page. Other days I feel like we're not.
And then I I feel like some days I'm part
of the book, some days I'm not. It's a dance.
It's a dance that I've had to learn. There's not
one fixed way of being. And if there is, then

(31:01):
congratulations to you, because it's for us. It just seems
like the more flexible we can be with one another,
which is so opposite of how I am in my life,
Like I like to control things, you know, when I
head out on tour, it's like everything is planned, like
everything's always been planned, and this has been the chaos

(31:21):
of this piece of my life. I've had to find
peace within the chaos. There's that makes sense. Yes, I
do really think that most set moms their lesson is control. Right,
if you really think about it, like, if you talk
to most step moms, what do you struggle with the most?
I struggle not having control and in some way, shape

(31:43):
or form, And you know, that was definitely like the
same situation for me. I felt like I had no
control over anything. So then I tried to control everything
even more and tried to be that perfect step mom
and you know, try to put all that pressure on myself,
and then then that backfires, right right, I think that's
it's when that all starts to backfire and you start
to get resentful. That's where all the step moms get

(32:04):
to the point where they're like, like, we're saying on
the bathroom floor. Yeah, yeah, for sure, I've definitely been there.
And right here, we are going to take a quick break,
but we'll be right back, I promise. Welcome back. My friends.
Jamie and I were just discussing how striving for perfection

(32:25):
can backfire big time. You just mentioned a word resentment,
and I wondered, what are your what's what's your suggestion
and advice when it comes to keeping resentment out of
the relationship and not only with your husband but with
your step kids. Yeah, I think you've got to be
really in tune with yourself and pay attention to how

(32:48):
you're showing up. And it sounds so cliche, it's like,
but it really does come down to self care. And
when I'm looking after myself and I'm spending time with
girlfriends and you know, Darren and I are making time together,
and you know, I'm just feeling good, eating while exercising
all the things. When we get a lawyer's letter, or

(33:10):
when we get or something happens with my step kids,
or my partner and I disagree on parenting whatever, or
I just get triggered by something, it makes a huge
difference my reaction. Right, So if I'm not doing okay
in the self care department, I'm going to be overwhelmed
and resentful and spiral and just kind of, you know,
really snowball down that spot. But when I am taking

(33:32):
care of myself, I have a little bit more perspective.
But I think it's really important there are signs leading
up to when that is happening. So if you're feelings overwhelmed,
if you're feeling annoyed, like when someone just walks in
the like when your step kids walk in the door,
or you're dreading the time that they're coming to spend
with you, or like you're sitting at dinner and your

(33:55):
step kid is eating food and all you can hear
is how loud they're chewing something like that. Like that's
when you know you're like bordering on resentment, right, Like
something's off right now because you're being easily triggered because
chances are they're not chewing any differently than they are
were last week, but you're just in a different space.
So I think it's so important to get really clear

(34:15):
with yourself and be open and honest with your partner
and learn to have those conversations. And it's hard, right
because when you say how you're feeling about certain stressors
in your life, the stressors actually came with your partner,
so they can take offense to it. But self care
in that communication piece, it's so important because when you're

(34:38):
bordering on resentment, like you gotta do what you got
anything you can to not go all in there, because
when you're really stuck there, it's a really hard place
to dig out of. It is I agree with that completely.
Communication has been key and one of my biggest lessons
has been you know, I can't control someone else's response
to my feelings, and I want to, Like I, I

(34:58):
don't want to hurt like you're saying. You know, some
of the things that we can resent came with our partner,
and so they can't take it really personally. I have
had to learn that I can't control Eddie's response to
my feelings. But at the same time, it's worse if
I hold it in because I'm sitting here unexpressed on
how I truly feel. And that has been a dance

(35:19):
that we've had to learn because I've also I think
it also really um the delivery makes how I deliver
information is really key UM to whether or not you
know he can he takes it personally, and so communication
has been something we've had to navigate and learn how
to do because it can be in this kind of situation,

(35:42):
UM can be even triggier than regular relationship communication. Have
you had situations where he just completely doesn't understand why
you think this is a big deal? Oh yeah, for sure,
all the time, all the time. And I, you know,
at the beginning, I think had this expectation that he
could control the situation, like he could magically just like

(36:04):
make things stop happening, and I remember having in this
conversation one day where he's like, I can't control this,
like I can't my and I realized my expectation of
his his control of the situation was just insanely um inflated.
And I also realized that I was in my own

(36:26):
experience and spin out in our family unit relationship in
the first few years. I realized that he wasn't going
to understand everything that was going on inside of me,
Like it was just there was no way to for
a man, for my husband to understand as a new
step mom what was happening within me. And so I

(36:46):
think I go back to like having the words to
be able to communicate my experience that became something that
I really had to learn, and him being able to
listen to me and hear me without telling me I
was wrong for feeling that way was super important too,
Like I just needed him to hear my feelings and
if I could get it out and he could be

(37:07):
there in order for us to have that conversation, then
I think a lot of feelings naturally dissolved. It was like, Okay,
I just needed to be expressed. Yeah, I have this
thing that I recommend that my step moms say before
they go into like these tough conversations they have like disclaimers, right,
So it's like, I don't need you to understand or
to agree with why I feel the way I'm feeling.

(37:30):
I just need you to respect that this is how
I'm experiencing things right now and just leave it at that. Right.
And I find when you go in with those disclaimers,
they can't they have to listen, right, kind of sets
you both up for success, right like that, But it's true, right,
And I think we all also don't really give enough
way to when you're in the trenches of it all,

(37:52):
like if you're dealing with a high conflict X, if
you're if you're having issues with your step kids, if
you have different parenting styles, all of this, how much
pressure is also on our partner, right, Like there's times
where I would say to Darren, like I need you
to respond to that like this, or I would be
like write it out, like can you say this, like
like shut this down, this is how you need to

(38:13):
do it. And I would be so pissed when he
wouldn't do it the way that I wanted him to
do it, And that was a lot of our issues
because I just like you're saying, you're like, you can
shut this down. But what we didn't understand is like
there's a whole big picture here, Like we really did
come in the middle, and like when they're fighting about

(38:35):
you know, the holiday schedule, there there's you know, something
going on. It's not actually just about the holiday schedule.
It's about you know, they're ten years of marriage. And
it took me so long to realize that and to
be like, oh, Okay, well, maybe I shouldn't try to
write the email for him, you know, like maybe I

(38:55):
shouldn't try to coach him on exactly how he needs
to shut this own and just give him a little
bit of empathy, because man, this guy is being pulled
and like have her many different directions and just trying
to keep us all happy. Yeah. I mean, when you're
in your own internal insanity, it's really challenging to be
able to step back and take that observer point of
view and recognize that he's in it too, and she's

(39:19):
in it too, or the ex partners in it he
or she, and then the kids are in it too,
and especially as they get older than they really start
to have these, you know, opinions and feelings about you
in the situation that maybe they didn't have when they
were younger. And so it's it is hard. And as
as the little longer I've been in it, the easier

(39:41):
it has been for me to be able to take
that position where I can observe and give everybody room,
because it's when you're at the I'm just at the
beginning of a step mom experience, it's like you're just
in your own You're in your own ship, you really are.
What did you find hardest at the very beginning, Like

(40:02):
what was the biggest, like the most pressure. Oh, um,
that's a good question. Mine was very complex because it
was so public and I think, Um, I think because
of the way Eddie and I got together, there was
a lot of turmoil, and I think trying to build

(40:23):
something solid amidst the turmoil, Um, that would just not stop.
It was incessant. And you know, when you're on the
cover of a magazine every week where you know your
relationship for years on end, and to try to keep
the kids somehow protected from that, that was the most challenging.

(40:44):
And trying to also figure out like how how involved
I think that was one of the biggest things. How involved,
and you know, you want to create a family and
a family unit, but then you're not quite sure how
to do that and keep every atty happy. I think
that was also a piece for me, is like I
just wanted to try to keep everybody happy and everybody

(41:05):
from getting hurt even more. And the more I did that,
the more I seemed to probably hurt those involved. It
was really complex, very very complex, and I think, you know,
having it be so public really did add another layer
of just absolute insanity and going back to that kind
of evil stepmother association that we have. Like, I mean,

(41:27):
how do you and you know, looking at my own
experience of how I was drugged, through the press, through everything,
and how do you think we start to change this?
I know, I feel like talking about it like we're
doing is a step forward and being honest about the
whole experience. But what else do you think we can
do as step moms and as a society to start

(41:50):
moving that needle into a more cohesive, loving experience for
some moms? Yeah, well loaded right. I think I think
it really does boil down to the way that women
are pit against each other to begin with you know,
because you know, way step moms are viewed versus the

(42:10):
way that step dads are viewed, it's entirely different. You know,
a stepdad comes in and marries a woman with kids
and he's this hero, and you know, a woman marries
a man with kids and it's like, well, what a
what a home wrecker. She's you know, not respecting the
role of the mom, or she's trying to overstep and
and that kind of stuff. So, you know, I think

(42:33):
it really it really comes down to losing the competition
piece too, and understanding that you know, there's a lot
of talk is as a stepmom a real mom, right
like our step mom's moms too. And I think it
really does come back to no, step moms are step moms.
Step moms are step moms. They can be. The way

(42:54):
that that shows up for different families is completely different.
But there's nothing wrong with being a step mom, right.
So when the step mom comes in with this idea
that she's supposed to be this mom and this family,
and this idea from society that you need to love
your step kids like your own immediately, but don't treat
them like they're your own, because that would be overstepping
right like, but then the step kids are also told

(43:16):
they don't have to listen to you because you're not
their mom, but you're supposed to act like their mom.
Like it's it's actually really messed up. It's because we're
trying to make step moms into moms. And that's I
think where that competition comes in. And if we just
separate them, right, their motherly figures were all motherly figures.
Everyone's on the same team. But let's let's lose the

(43:38):
competition piece. And it starts with even conversations at the arena, right,
like just the way when you introduce yourself as a stepmom.
So I go to the arena, I introduced myself like, oh,
you know that's my stepson. Oh how is that? Why
don't you ask how old he is? Right? Or you
know what teams he on? And it's interesting how strangers

(44:00):
can just ask us, oh, well do you get along
with the X. It's like they're baiting you. You're being
bated all the time. That's the thing. Yes, people want
the fight, and that's what I had to start. That's
what I was saying when I would get hooked in
to the fight. It was like we have been trained
as a society to want that fight and to be

(44:20):
entertained by it. And it's amazing that, you know, we
live in a society that we'll just ask you so blatantly, well,
how's that because they just want to know, like, yeah,
they want to know, like they want the fight to
be there, which is for sure. It's scary to me,
it's and I do think you're right. I think it
does boil down to the underlying issue is, you know,

(44:41):
pitting women against each other. I know one of my
biggest hard looks for me that I had to look
at was how much I wanted to win. And yeah,
the better the house, the Yeah, it's like always be
the prettier that you know, like all the things. The
way that society does that to women, that's that's ingrained
in us totally, it is. And to have to unhook

(45:05):
from that was a huge thing. It's like, it's not
about winning, it's about raising competent, beautiful, loving children and
really trying to form whatever your team is going to
look like. And that could be all rah rah, everybody's
loving each other all the time, or it could look
like just getting along enough to help each other out

(45:27):
like whatever, and some people don't ever get to that place,
and I think we have to give ourselves some grace,
like it's it's okay if you don't create the perfect
family unit. I know a lot of people look at
my situation. They're like, how the hell did you get
to the place where you could all spend a holiday together?
And it's taken a lot of work on both sides.

(45:48):
And I think people have this idea that eventually everybody
will get there, and sometimes you won't and that's okay,
it's okay. Yeah. And that's the other piece too. There's
this huge pressure now to have this hurts and sparkles
co parenting relationship. And I've been talking more about this lately.
But whenever one of those viral Facebook book posts with
matching jerseys or something comes out, you know, I always

(46:11):
get messages saying, you know, this is how it should be. Yeah,
And that's been something that's been really hard for me.
I There's been time where I've had wine with my
you know, husband's first wife. There's been we've hung out
together at hockey tournaments, and then there's been times where
we don't even speak, like you know, now I'm fairly,
I'm fairly disengaged at this point in time. Just it's
based on the ebbs and flows of where everyone's at

(46:33):
in their own journey, and that's what's best for me, right,
that's what's best for us that I'm sure that's what's
best for her. Like all of this pressure of how
we're supposed to interact with each other and what this
should look like, it makes you feel guilty too, right,
But there are a lot of people who need to

(46:55):
get to a certain place in their healing journey to
have that type of relationship. So it's like another thing
that stepman's feel guilty about. So if you can't have
that relationship, or if the ex wife wants nothing to
do with you and doesn't even want to say hi
to you at pickup where doesn't want you to have
anything to do with you know, parent teacher night, even
though you are doing homework with the kids seven days

(47:17):
in a row, right, Like, that's not about you. But
we have to lose the guilt there, because that has
been really hard for me. I really thought we would
have us you know, there was times I was like
we could all do holidays together, we could do this,
and we could do that, And I'm really glad I
didn't start that tradition because it would not have gone well.
But I had to get over that. I had to

(47:37):
even like grieve the loss of what I thought it
should look like or what it was going to look like,
or that we would all get to that point And
maybe we will eventually, but we're not there right now.
But that's what's healthiest for us too, So there's that
piece to consider. Yeah, I love that you're saying ebbs
and flows, and I think that that is probably the

(47:57):
case for us to For for the most part, we've
been able to once we've committed to holidays and such like,
we've been fairly committed and it's been nice like and
it makes the kids really happy. And I try to
be in my own space and enjoy like everybody for
who they are. And I think that expectations piece is
so huge, Like when you can lay off of the

(48:19):
expectations of what you think something should be or who
they should be, then you get to actually experience it
for what it is. And there can be a lot
of gifts that you're not able to see three your expectations,
Like there's so many gifts that could be there and
so many lessons. We go back to those lessons that

(48:41):
we're learning that we we could be missing if we
have just expectations of the situation. And you're right, there's
a lot of grief, a lot of grief I think
over for everybody. Oh yeah, yeah. Empathy is something that
you talk a lot about in your ebook, and empathy
has been such a huge part of this journey. I
think it's so such a part of the large part

(49:01):
of the human journey if we allow it to be.
But I think when it comes to grieving, it's so
interesting on this podcast this whole season, the grief has
come up in each episode. When it comes to grieving,
we have to remember that each of us is grieving
something in our own way within the situation, and having
that empathy for others grief is really important. And then

(49:24):
everyone does that on their own, in their own time way,
in their own timeline, right like you really, I think,
going back to what you're saying, like you got to
learn to read the room like as a stem mom,
you read the room like, read like your relationship with
your step kids, see where they're at. You know, the
way you're showing up to support your partner dealing with
the acts, like just read the room and then you know,

(49:47):
figure it out from there. And that's not saying your
feelings don't matter, right, and and your your experience doesn't matter,
but you own that experience too, right, And so you
get you get to control with situations to keep putting
yourself in for oh, absolutely, and that's the thing you
have choice. It's interesting that you're saying reading the room
because I feel like that's been a huge piece of

(50:08):
my anxiety, is having to read the room. It's and
I don't like equated to just this my relationship in
this family unit. It started back with my own parents,
but I am now in this situation that's similar. I've
had to learn how to read the room without it
being anxiety provoking and taking on other people's emotions within

(50:31):
the room. That's been really interesting because I think it
is a gift for a step mom to be able
to read the room and to be empathetic. It can
turn on a dime really quickly into this very anxiety
provoking experience, and I think that sometimes comes with is
there a control piece involved? Then? Are you trying to
control everybody in the room or are you just reading
the room. Yeah, totally, that that hit home too. Yeah,

(50:59):
and it's it's like you're saying the ebb and flow
of the situation, Like I really have to keep myself
in check so that I allow for the ebbs and
the flows, and I don't get so fixated on on
one thing, because then it goes back to someone's grief journey. Right,
Like we dealt with secondary infertility. I wanted more than
one baby. Um we went to have another baby after

(51:19):
rece I. We couldn't. It just wasn't wasn't in the
cards for us. And that's something I've had to grieve
because if I didn't marry someone who was older than me,
if I didn't if maybe we didn't have this my
step kids because it was so busy, I didn't feel
like we had enough time for another baby. Like all
these things, I feel like I fully process that, right,
I feel like that's something I've I've grieved, I've moved

(51:40):
moved on from. But years later, I can have something
happen and see something and it triggers my grief, which
then impact how I experienced the acts and how I
experienced my step kids busy schedule and like the resentment
creeps in. So I think people need to remember too,
this is not something you just you know, check off, right,
like your step on struggles and the reason meant and
grief and the whole the whole learning process, all the things,

(52:04):
like you're constantly dealing with it, like this is like
a lifelong work and there's always going to be something.
It is lifelong work. All right, We are going to
step away for a quick breath, but we'll be right back.
Hello again, loves. Jamie and I were just talking about

(52:26):
the pressure to project harmony with the way that we
interact as a blended family, and you mentioned grief, but
I know one of the things that's been coming up
for me lately is actually grieving not having children of
my own. And it's been a real clear decision for me.
For a long time. I didn't really think. I love
how everything's portrayed in the media, but I've never we've

(52:48):
never tried to have kids or um and I've never
really thought of myself with children. In fact, I told
my I told my godmother when I was six that
I was going to have two boys that were in
my own and so I had wildly um yeah, and
she remembers it so vividly, and I thought I was
going to adopt children if I ever had children. I
just never had that desire. And I've had the wonderful

(53:11):
experience of having two boys in my life and which
has been really cool to to watch them grow up.
That's one of the things that I've been grieving as
as a stepmom and as a woman now heading into
forty and it's not over, like, it's not who knows
what will happen in the future of my life, but yeah,
it's been really interesting to navigate being a stepmom but

(53:32):
not ever having kids of my own. And that's that's
a it's a true grieving process for any woman. I
think it at around this age. So it's been really interesting.
And I think that that's a different experience for step
moms to write like the childless stepmom like quote unquote,
like and you know, if you have your own child
or you're bringing children in from another marriage, like there Again,

(53:54):
that was just the different experiences, because I know that
a lot of childless step moms or those who are
dealing with in fertility haven't been able to have their
own or by choice, they sometimes feel like their experience
in motherhood is minimized because they don't. People will say, well,
you don't understand until you have your own kids, and

(54:15):
there's so many there's elements of that that's true, but
there's elements of that that's false. Like there's just like
so many you don't know what you don't know, right,
and we all kind of walk through and have our
own experience. I don't know what it feels like to
be a childless stepma and to just have my have
my step kids. I think my experience being a stepma
would be completely different than it is now and vice versa.

(54:37):
So I think there's there's that piece to consider too.
It goes back to how there's there's so many different
dynamics that everyone has their own hurt. That was totally
and that was one of the pieces in your book
that I was like, wait, I'm not my my motherhood
is not minimized because I'm not I don't have children,
But that is a view in which our lens in

(54:59):
which I am looked at through society as as a
child is step mom. And that was one of the
things where I was like, oh, there's there's anger around
that for me, and there's a grieving process that I'm
going through, and it just really touched upon something that
I know. I'm not the only one that experiences that.
And I find it so interesting that you have your
own child with your husband and like you're saying, I don't,

(55:19):
I don't know that experience. And so I think a
sense of respect for everyone's own unique experience is so key.
And you know, when it comes to moving the needle forward,
I guess in our society, I think the more we
can talk about those unique experiences in which each of
our lens is our our own. Um, it not not
only plays into the step mom role, but into humanity

(55:42):
as you know, as a whole. Yeah, their truth is
not our truth, right and yes, and vice versa. We
both like fully believe it. Yeah, totally. I like my
truth is the truth though, right absolutely? Mind you it
finds how it really happened. Yes, exactly. If you could
go back in time and tell you're younger stepmom self

(56:05):
one thing, what would it be, Um, I would say
to get into couples therapy right away? I would I
would get into couples therapy, and I wouldn't have gone
as all in as I did. So I was commuting
like an hour and a half each way. I was
working in child protection still, and this house was perfectly clean. Um,

(56:29):
the kids were perfectly dressed, you know, everything. Dinner was
in a crock pot when I left at five thirty
in the morning, because I was going to be like
I just took over and did all the things. And
I did that because I was trying to be perfect
and trying to prove myself and you know, trying to
show up. And I thought that was the way I
would I would show everyone how much I loved them.
And I got to the point there was my husband.

(56:50):
I had this fight in the kitchen and I said
to myself, I don't do any of the things I
used to do anymore. I used to go to yoga,
I used to go to the you know, book stores,
coffee shops with my girl friends, used to all these things.
And I don't do anything. I'm just here doing everything
for you people. And he looked to me and said,
no one asked you to stop that, Jamie, Like you
did that on your own. And he was really right, like,

(57:16):
you never asked me to do it. And I think,
you know, that's where a lot of stepmans get caught up.
We go all in and we want to do all
the things, and we do it with great intentions. But
then that's when you get to that resentment piece, right,
because you might not be getting that same emotional attachment
as their mom does. You might not get the glory

(57:38):
moments and those are the things. It's like, you're good
enough for the nitty gritty, but then when those glory
moments come, you need to step back and know your place.
And that's where the resentment piece comes in. Right. Absolutely,
I would have not done that, but I don't. Again,
it's like you're saying, how I said, I maybe wouldn't
have fallen in love with my husband, but I had,
I probably would do both. Again, it's your journey, right,

(58:00):
I mean, we all have our unique journeys and this
is just part of it. So thank you for coming
on here and sharing so vulnerably. I really, really really
appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, before
you leave, I have to ask. I ask all my
guests what are your holy five songs? Of course, I'd
love to know what's playing in your house, in your car.

(58:21):
It could be anything from the like what you're listening
to right now? Five songs or it could be over
your life, like what's moved you? So give it to me?
Yeah for sure? Well, yeah, I've I've prepared these because
I knew this was coming, so I kind of went
with songs that kind of like hit home for me. Okay,
So do you know what I really love is Caitlin
Bristow released a song and if I'm being honest, and

(58:45):
so she talked, have you heard it? I don't know
that one. No, I can have a moment best me.
It's it's really good. So she's like, if I'm being honest,
like I'm not as tough as I seem, like maybe
I drink a little too much wine, but like the

(59:07):
words I say to myself and are the hardest ones,
like talking about people being critical of you. And I
really like that one because it's like, yeah, you know,
sometimes we're hard enough on ourselves. We don't need to
worry about whatever everyone else is saying. I really love
the song and it kind of goes with what we're
talking about when you love someone. I thinks like James
t W but he's talking about like, you know, two

(59:29):
sometimes two homes are better than one. Sometimes moms and
dads they followut the fall out of love and just
like explaining it to a child. Yeah yeah, so I
really love that's a better though what that song sometimes
that I love sometimes too better. Some things you can't say, sister,

(59:53):
because she's still too young. I don't understand when you
love someone. Yeah, so good. I love that song. Yeah
so good. The other one was and it's just like
a huge fan faith in my family Paradise by the
dashboard light meat Loaf, like it's like our family things,

(01:00:32):
both sides of my family, like a meat Loaf concert,
like the last time he went on tour, like all
my family members and like friends were like in different spots,
just like having a hoot. So my family always Yeah,
I love it. Um what else did I got here?
Ronan Keaton? When you see nothing at all? I think
that was the last one I have. I think I'm
sure I went the shone that you need the truth

(01:00:59):
and you right shut that's okay. So I love that.
It's just like the best I love Nan and I
did to do it together actually years ago, and he's like,
especially I'll look at it right now. He's the sweetest guy.
I love him so fun so so good. Well, thanks

(01:01:20):
for sharing it, thank you for sharing your music, thank
you for sharing your heart. And it's so nice to
finally put a face like to see you in person. Ish,
I know. I don't know if you've noticed on Instagram
there's people saying you guys need to do a podcast
together in the comments. So when you'll when you like
something or like comment on my post, I always get
damns like do you know that leanne rhymes? Okay? So

(01:01:42):
if I will, I will. I would love to come
and join you on yours too anytime, so let's be
sure we will get it set up awesome. Well, thank you,
have a beautiful day you too, And that, my friends,
wraps this very honest and open episode of Holy Human.
I hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Jamie Scrimtrat

(01:02:03):
as much as I did. Again, her podcast is called
The kick Ass step Mom and it is filled with
tons of realistic and pragmatic tips and advice if your
stepmom or navigating a blended family, And as always, please
let me know your thoughts on today's episode or ideas
for future ones, and be nice leave them in the
comments below wherever you're listening. I love reading your feedback,

(01:02:26):
so come join us anytime, let us know what you think.
And on the next Holy Human, I will be joined
by a profoundly insightful poetic author, Steph Jagger, to discuss
her latest book, Everything Left to Remember, a touching tribute
to navigating a relationship with a parent battling Alzheimer's. Steph

(01:02:48):
will share her heartbreakingly beautiful takeaway on this incredibly cruel disease,
along with an in depth discussion about our relationship with
nature and our connection with a feminine and I just
know I did. You will find her deeply inspiring, So
until then, please take care of yourself and each other.

(01:03:12):
Holy Human with me Leanne Rhymes is a production of
I Heart Radio. You'll find Holy Human with Lianne Rhymes
on the I Heart app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get the podcast that matter most to you.