Katie Peuvrelle

LeAnn welcomes high performance coach Katie Peuvrelle to discuss her unique perspective on performance psychology and her groundbreaking book "Leap: Own Your Excellence and Engage Your Best Self in Business, Sports, the Arts, and Life."

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I
Heart Radio. Hello everyone, welcome to the final episode of
this season of Holy Human. Thank you for being patient

(00:20):
with me. We have gone a few weeks without an
episode and it is because I have been on the
road and every time I come home, UM, I have
been in need of some rests. So I am doing
everything to take care of myself while also connecting with you,
and I, like I said, I appreciate you being very patient.

(00:40):
So we are going to dive into the final episode
right now. I am welcoming a woman who has had
a huge impact on my life in a relatively short
amount of time. Katie Prevail is a performance coach who
guides high performers to find deeper joy and fulfillment on
both professional and personal levels. She's also the author of

(01:03):
Leap Own Your Excellence and Engage Your Best Self. I
found this book to be a game changer for me
and I cannot wait for you to meet Katie on
today's episode. I'm Holy here. Yeah, Yeah, this is amazing.

(01:39):
I'm so excited. Hi, Katie, mak you so much for
coming on here. Just to give people a backstory, I
met Katie through Mindy Pells, who is on our podcast
not long ago, and um, yeah, Mindy and I started
working on everything body, and she was like, I have
this woman who's absolutely incredible. She wrote this book called

(02:02):
Leap Um, which I've had many people tell me you
should read the book Leap, you should read the book
Leap And then all of a sudden, Mindy brought it up,
and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to dive into this book,
see what Katie is all about. And it was just yeah,
it was. It was a very expansive book for me
and as a performer, especially because you talk all about performance,
which we'll get into, but I'm I'm so glad Mindy

(02:25):
introduced us, and Katie has become a huge part of
my life, and so I thought we'd we dive into
your book a little bit. But I also want to
explore some of the things that you and I've personally
been working on, because you know, as this podcast is
called Holy Human, I think, um, the things that we

(02:45):
have been working on together really fit into this wholeness
piece everything that I've been looking to do with my life,
not only as a performer but as a human. And
I think people who listen are looking to do the same.
So that's kind of the backstory of I would love
to hear, and I know our listeners would love to hear,
Like if you could explain to anyone? And I ask

(03:05):
people this a lot because I feel like people I
bring on here, it's not clear cut, like what do
you do? So what what if someone was to meet
you for the first time, how would you explain what
you do to someone? That is the million dollar question.
You're like, I'm still figuring that out. How long have
you got faceted? It's multifaceted, as are we humans? Right,

(03:29):
that's a little little plug in there for that. Um.
One of the things I've been saying recently is that
I'm I'm on a mission to bring kindness and connection
to the pursuit of excellence. And yeah, so that's one
of the things that is meaningful to me as well
as helping I help high performers in all different forms

(03:50):
or any humans in their realm of human performance bring
more of who they really are into what they do
so they can live a life that's more fulfilling and
more joyous. That's interesting because I think when I think
of the pursuit of excellence. Kindness and connection are not
the first two things that I think of, especially not

(04:11):
only outwardly, because I think there's there's a lot of competition,
you know, and we've we've been, we've grown up around
I know I have personally around competition, especially with other women. Absolutely,
but it's not only that outwardly, but it's internally is
what I feel. And here when you say that, I'm
so glad, that's what I think too. It's it's a

(04:32):
kindness to self, and it's a kindness to others and
almost a kindness to all of the circumstances that tend
to come in to high performance. As you know, I
grew up as a figure skater, which is an extremely competitive,
kind of unforgiving world for young women. And I think
part of my mission is to kind of heal a
big part of myself as well as heal other humans

(04:56):
that are in that space of really appreciating it's excellence.
And it's also like bringing all of you to whatever
you do because it matters to you, um, and learning
to bring yourself to that with perhaps less judgment and
more kindness. Yeah, I mean, I think whether or not
you're an actual performer, I think we're all performing, right, Yes,

(05:21):
life is a performance. Didn't Shakespeare say something like that
life is a stage? And it's true though, And I
think there's we can utilize that, I guess with kindness
and connection, or it can go completely the opposite way,
where we we feel like we're always having to be on.
I know this is something you and I talked about
a lot, Like I always feel like I have to

(05:41):
be on, and it doesn't really shut off, even in
my personal relationships or when I'm when I'm not playing
Leanne rhymes, but I'm just being Leanne. It's like, Okay,
I didn't know. I don't know where that off switches.
And I think people can get locked into we can
get so locked into our performances of who we think

(06:03):
we need to be that exactly, it just kind of
spills over into all different parts of our lives. It
sure does. And I think sometimes recognizing that maybe if
we can find an off switch switch that can work
where you can turn it off and just be you
or be more of all of who you are, and
sometimes that part of ourselves doesn't want to be switched off.

(06:25):
It's going to fight for its life. It's gonna say
oh no, I got stuff to say, I got things
to do. What I'm bored, It's going to say all
the things it says, right, And so then the works
a little different to recognize. Okay, maybe I can listen
to that voice and make other choices, but sometimes the
pushing it away will actually make it come back with
more force in terms of it wanting to drive your

(06:47):
decisions right, for sure, I definitely want to get into that.
I would. It would the with performance psychology. How would
you how would you describe performance psychology to someone who like,
what is it different than normal psychology? Yeah, performance psychology
is more I would say it's in general, it's the psychology,

(07:11):
it's around mindset, and it's around UM. It's for people
who are in high stakes circumstances. So it's traditionally for
high performing athletes, for performing artists, for even for people
in the high risk professions UM where there is a
lot of emotional output where their lives at risk. And

(07:33):
even though it might seem like a broad spectrum, anytime
you're in a your your performer, you're having to do
what you do in a situation where it feels to
you like the stakes are high and there's a sense
of vulnerability, in a sense of um, yeah, vulnerability. Then
that's where I feel like performance psychology comes in. I
feel like that's just life. Especially these days, everything seems

(07:57):
like it high stakes. But I guess it's mindset, right.
I mean, it's we have been so trained to think
that everything is high stakes and that you know, there's
such a uh mindset of lack that we have all
it's kind of all been driven into most of us,
um for a very long time, and it's it can

(08:20):
be really challenging to step out of that situation or
those mindsets. And yes, I think that well, first off,
think that there's a new way of being in this
world and that's where your kindness and connection come in.
Is it's it really is completely doing a one A
D from I think the way we've all been set up.

(08:42):
I think so, And that's I feel like it's time
for a paradigm shift, especially as we really go forward
now given everything that's happened in recent years, that how
can we connect more to each other? How can we
lead with kindness instead of with judgment or with fear.
But I think that's um, it's really the place that
I want to be assuring in this new paradigm through

(09:03):
the through the lens of the people that I work with.
So you're asking that question of how, how what are
some of the ways that you're finding for yourself and
through the work that you're doing with others, of ways
that we can start connecting more with ourselves and with others.
And this this kindness piece. How can we bring this
kindness piece word? Yeah? I think you really you really

(09:27):
nailed it when you when you said that your first
hit was Okay, it's kindness to myself because I mean, really,
the world is a is a projection. What we perceive
the world to be is a projection of our own
inner world. So the more we judge ourselves, the more
we're going to perceive that we're being judged or the
world is going to feel like less of a safe place.

(09:47):
So I think it really does start at home. Um.
I always I often say to people, Yeah, it really
is all about you start here. Yeah, you said the
word home, which you and I've been working with um
this piece and I've mentioned in on the podcast with
with another guest recently, which is this idea of home frequency,

(10:12):
and you and I work a lot with bringing soul
into the equation you know, what is? What does that
look like? What is I'd love for you to describe
what you feel. Home frequency is two people. Oh yeah,
it's um. The concept and the experience of it is

(10:33):
it's so close to my heart and um and I've
I've witnessed it sort of allow you to expand too
in the way where so home frequency, to me, first
of all, is maybe another word or another way of
talking about your the frequency of your soul, of your essence,
of your true self. I mean this probably are all
synonyms for the same experience. And then when you look

(10:56):
at it from the level of or through the lens
of frequency meaning ofvibration, meaning meaning vibration, then it's like
your home frequency is when you when you can begin
to identify that, when you can begin to feel what
it feels like where you're really aligning with your true
self or like you and I say, coming home to
yourself where there can be a place of kindness because

(11:18):
your home frequency, your soul's essence is rarely unkind to you.
UM and yeah, so when you can come there, you
can start to go, oh, this feels, this feels kinder,
and and sometimes we dip into the home frequency, and
then we kind of pop back out and we go
into the false selves and the ego constructs and all
of that which is just human. Right, It's like, oh okay,

(11:39):
And then the first work is really to recognize, oh
I popped out? How can I? How can I drop
back in? Because I almost feel like it's a popping
out into the into the constructs. And then the going
into home frequency is more of a surrender and recognizing
what is you by kind of releasing what's not you.
How does how do we begin to find that home frequency? Yeah,

(12:03):
it's so something that I believe is really important is
first of all, I think we need to recognize that
frequency is the thing, right. I mean it's a little
woo woo, right, But at the same time, frequency is frequency.
Everything is frequency. Everything is energy. Yeah, Einstein taught us that,
you know. And it's funny even though I know that,
like sometimes it's sometimes the the piece of me that

(12:25):
pops out of home frequency. It wants to judge the
fact that I'm like, oh, this is energy. I can't
see it, but if you think about it, like you're
constantly feeling it. If we go into that place of feeling.
You know, you're we're constantly feeling the energies around us,
you know, just as simple as if there's someone in
the room that changes the vibe of the room or

(12:47):
how you feel like. I think, first off, we have
to get into paying attention to that, to those feelings.
But I know it's it's really you say, it's woo woo.
And it does seem sometimes like what am I doing? Whatever?
What am I doing? What am I doing though this
thing that I can't see, But it's it is if
it's it really, if you really boil it down like it, um,

(13:08):
everything is energy, and I think discovering I know for me,
you know, through meditation through to feeling into my heart, UM,
I feel I don't know how you feel energy, but
I feel energy like in waves, like when I really
tune into myself, um and drop into my heart and

(13:30):
like and somewhat quiet the mind. The mind is never
fully quiet at o't. Yeah. I can start to feel
this kind of flow of what feels a little more
open um and more like the true self. M It
feels more flow, it feels more open. A lot of

(13:51):
people will describe it as that I think you asked
sort of my experience of it two, which is I
feel very peaceful, and I can feel when my mind
is a little bit quieter. When I'm in home frequency
and I have more I feel much more expansive, and
I feel more connected to to kind of mysticism into
you know, even more connected to what isn't visible, like

(14:14):
the non physical realm, the realm of what's not visible.
So you know, we just I just mentioned meditation and
kind of connecting to the heart. Are there any are
there any ways for people to that you would recommend
to start dropping into their own home frequency. M hmm. Yeah, definitely.
Meditation is or what I even call sometimes as simply

(14:36):
as a daily practice. Is something to consider it in
the daily practice, meaning it's something you can do every
day where you say, okay, even for five minutes, I'm
going to stop and I'm going to even just notice
what our thoughts as it put with because thoughts or energy.
And then okay, what is not thought? So these are thoughts, pictures, words, whatever.

(15:00):
And then what is not thought is sensations in my body.
What is not thought is the temperature of the era
around me. So you start to even begin to recognize
the aspects of your experience UM and then moving out
of your left brain and out of your head is
a way to begin to dip into that home frequency.

(15:20):
So that's just a start, right, Yeah, for sure. I've
been reading Michael Singer's book recently, and you know, we
talk a lot about witness. He talks a lot about
witness consciousness. And one of the things that's really been
interesting for me is, and I feel like this is
similar of what we're talking about now, is to recognize

(15:42):
that we are consciousness. We are the one who's who's
who's noticing what's coming up. We're the one noticing the thoughts.
We are the one noticing the pain. Like I was
in my back hurt the other day, I was like
just reminding myself, I am the I am. I am
the one noticing. UM allows you kind of step out
of that constant rumination or pain that you're in or

(16:04):
whatever it may be, and even if it's for a moment,
because I went right back into the pain, but I
was like, oh, I'm the one noticing. And I kept
kind of playing with that. UM to me that the
one noticing UM, the witness is the home frequency. And
I don't know, I don't know if we can hang
out there all the time, you know, I mean, or

(16:26):
even if we're supposed to write that's the thing. I know.
You said it to me a lot. You're like, are
you really supposed to hang out there? Um? But I
guess it's you know, as we talk about, you know,
bringing soul to performance and bringing soul into our lives,
how you know, how do we bring how do we
bring more of that home frequency into our daily our

(16:50):
daily life. Yes, exactly. The question I almost feel like
that is that is probably a life purpose, right What
is your soul to experience? What is it here to learn?
And there's so many different ideas about why we're here.
Some some spiritual teachers will just say, Okay, we're just
here to be entertained, you know, to as much as oh,

(17:12):
there's a deep purpose to have have a huge impact
and whatever you believe it is, it is and you know, um,
but I think yeah, to to to talk about like
how you bring soul into performance is is really I
think it starts with being able to recognize your home
frequency and to gain some facility in being able to

(17:34):
kind of okay, let me drop into that space of
my heart dropping into my heart, let me let me
feel my body. Even just feeling in your body gets
you out of that the logical thinking, and then whatever
practice you have or you create for yourself to be
able to be the witness to recognize okay, I'm having thoughts,
for example, who who is it having the thoughts? Who

(17:56):
is it recognizing the thoughts? Okay? Can I remember that
I am recognizing the thoughts? And that is the place
to be. So when you develop that practice, then when
you're performing, there are tools and techniques, and sometimes I'll
use hypnosis, use different anchors or ways of moving energy
in the moment that that will be more conducive to

(18:17):
to you being able to drop into that home frequency
and express more of your soul into what you're doing.
It's interesting that it's just talking. I was just thinking
about what that feels like for me and I when
I really drop into my home frequency, sometimes I feel
like it wants nothing, and that this is kind of
the conundrum as a performer, as someone who achieves, I

(18:40):
kind of feel like I get I'm I have not yet.
I have not yet figured out how to fully or
how to yeah, how to fully bring that piece of
myself into the doing because it feels very separate sometimes,
Like when I drop into that place of soul, it's

(19:00):
like there, it wants nothing mm hmm. It doesn't want
to achieve, It's like it does it just wants to be,
And it's like, well, how do how do I bring
the being into the doing? Exactly? That exactly, And I
think that's that's part of the journey of what we're learning.
I mean, truly, it really is. I almost think of like, okay,
there there is um, Like soul is sort of a circle,

(19:23):
if you will, and then it has these little offshoots
or maybe this is a this is a better analogy,
like we're a jewel, but if we as a being
or a jewel with many facets, but our essence is
the jewel itself. Right, So it's like it's almost gonna
be both. So like even in that I'm identifying it

(19:43):
as we're talking here and kind of feeling into it,
you know, So if you remain in this remembering that, Okay,
I am the jewel, I'm a jewel that has facets.
I'm observing these facets. One of these facets is Land Rhymes,
who is performing now, right, But even those aspects of you.
They're not not you. There are aspects of you. So

(20:03):
is there a way that you can almost consciously from
that awareness points say Okay, I'm going to give Leanne
Rhymes a voice now, or I'm going to give Katie
Pivrel a voice now, or I'm so it's as long
as it's coming from choice number one. Then then that
part or the persona isn't driving things right, and that's
when you begin to have a different experience. And the

(20:26):
other thing I was thinking is, yes, the soul doesn't
want to achieve. Soul wants to be, So how can
you be in the moment explore like the performing in
the moment without it being um a motivation for achievement,
but more for experience, because the soul is kind of

(20:47):
here to experience. That's a great. Yeah, well my imagine
My mind just went to But I don't want to
do that because I guess the question for myself that
I ask and for everybody I think, in their own profession,
without the achievement, would you still choose to experience what

(21:08):
you're doing exactly? And right, Yeah, we're going and we're
going to dive even more deeply into that question when
we return from a quick break, Welcome back, my loves.

(21:33):
Katie and I were just exploring the role of achievement
versus experience as motivation for performance. I've been asking myself
that question, and the truth is like, I really don't know.
And I guess, then, is it that I don't want
to experience what I'm doing? Is it don't that I
don't want to experience the way that in which I'm

(21:56):
doing it is the is the essence of the thing
that I love to do? Still am I still passionate
about that? But maybe I'm not passionate about the way
in which it's I'm I'm experiencing it. And and maybe
the passion is in the creating and the passion is

(22:16):
and and you're shifting towards something of that the how
you're expressing it is changing. It's it's adapting to your
growth and you're learning and your expansion because you're you're
expanding by the moment. Yeah, I mean that's so yeah,
that's really I was like, that's a that's a deep

(22:37):
question right now. It's interesting because so for so many
of us that um that I want to achieve, you know,
and we want the end goal to be like we
always have to reset goals and we want to cheap
the thing, and it's not about the experience. I mean,
I feel like for me, within that lies a lot

(22:57):
of perfectionism. To how do you how do you see
how do you see perfectionism get in the way of performance?
And how is there is there a way to utilize
perfectionism as something that doesn't get in the way. Oh
my gosh, you're you're just asking me a great question.
I having been a figure skater and working with so

(23:20):
many skaters and performance arts, sports is kind of the
thing that I focused on as well as performing arts.
There's when you combine creativity and a love of beauty
and a love of excellence and a drive to achieve.
And sometimes when you're an environment where there feels like
there's a lot of external a lot of people around
you that are attached to you doing well, right, I

(23:44):
think that that can be a real breeding ground for perfectionism. Right.
And I sort of have this thing where growing up
people would say, don't be such a perfectionist, and I
always felt like, well, don't don't rag on the perfectionist,
because actually, there there is a part of us that
loves it might be achievement. I don't tell me what

(24:05):
it feels like for you, but sometimes it just feels
like the love of beauty and experiencing something really done well,
or where you've given your all and you feel you
go to this place of peace. Okay, yeah, I gave
my all. This moment that I was creating felt complete
or it had it brought it lit. Something up in

(24:27):
me was like, Yes, this is what I envisioned months ago,
or what I envisioned earlier that I really wanted to
create and birth into the world. That's why I liked
the idea of my mission statement of saying pursuit of
excellence because excellence isn't inherently bad desiring excellence, I think
we can see it as really something that meets a
deep soul need of doing things at a level that

(24:49):
brings us joy. Because if that's why we're doing it,
because it brings us joy, it's less about the achievement
or the box checking that it is really about that
feeling of it getting to a point of completion and accomplishment,
if you will. But beauty, I mean, there's beauty in
a thing done really in a really lovely way that

(25:11):
feels whole and complete and fully expressed. Right. Yeah. Absolutely.
I mean I know for myself, if there's like if
there's a great performance or a great recording, it's like
I feel like I've done the best that I can
do in that moment, Like I've brought through into this
world the highest possible outcome. Now, Yeah, and that feels good.

(25:34):
Like that feels I think sometimes we we can get
caught up though, in the expectation of that every time,
not realizing that there's a whole spectrum of expression and
just focused on I think for me, that's the perfectionism
comes in. When I get focused on it has to
look like and sound like and be like that thing.

(25:56):
If you get caught up in the last experience, with
all the experiences before instead of the present moment. Yeah, yeah,
as you were saying that, I just thought, what if
we were here to create elastic experiences, because you said
the last experience, you know that we allow for that
elasticity in the moment and even being present with how
things want to show up or be revealed or reveal

(26:19):
themselves to us in the moment. If if that also
can be a source of joy and wonder and um more.
Source of expansiveness into more of who we are. Yeah,
do you feel like do you feel like the soul
can only do that? Mm hmmm, only the soul can
do that. Yeah, I'm just wondering because I feel like
my my my ego, like the piece of me that's like,

(26:41):
I want this experience to be exactly the same every time.
I wanted to be amazing every time. I don't know, Um, well,
from this point of view, from right now, I don't
know if that piece of me can do that. Mm hmmmm.
And there's where we should get into pieces. They were

(27:02):
get into pieces and parts and aspects and facets right, No, totally, Well,
so this so interestingly enough, um Katie and I I
asked her to come on the podcast because we just
did some work the other day and this might take
on a completely different vibe than most podcasts, but um,
I was like, use me as a guinea pig. Um

(27:22):
I about I guess the middle of last year, and
I've I've talked about parts on my podcast before. I've
talked about Tubby, who's my judge in my head? Um,
but the parts of kind of I've given them names.
They've kind of lived outside of me last year I
started discovering, UM, my first name is Margaret for people

(27:43):
who don't know um I and I've never been called
Margaret and I've never related to Margaret at all. I
was like, that's not even I don't even relate to
It's not even a part of me. And I started
to really stand up for myself in situations there was
there was a lot of anger that came through with it. UM.
I was very stern about it. Yeah, she felt she

(28:05):
felt very protective, and it was a new part of
me that I had yet to really that had yet
to come online. And had she really had a voice before?
Had she don't really know, not at all. I don't
think so, right, Yeah, so I gave her. I was like, oh,
that's Margaret, that's Margaret. And I loved my band and career.

(28:25):
Like they know when Margaret's around and they love her,
they're like, oh, she's awesome until it turns aroug and
back at them, but they're like whoa, Um, But then I, yeah,
badass Margaret is it? And then I discovered recently as
I went out on tour UM because I've been doing
shows here and there, but I haven't done long stretches

(28:46):
of time like we've been doing. UM. Yeah, I discovered
that it was really challenging for me to step back
into Leanne rhymes or and and remain in that that
identity for long periods of time, because during COVID, I

(29:06):
feel like I stepped into Leanne and to not be
able to oscillate back and forth between lean rhymes and
leanne it started to feel really uncomfortable and painful. UM.
And so we did some work the other day on

(29:27):
these different parts of self, and then's the first time
my parts have been really personal. So I started to
see the Leanne rhymes that I created very very clearly,
and I started to see Margaret, and I feel like
Margaret is almost a protective part of Leanne UM and
Leanne rhymes actually UM and Leanne still feels very young,

(29:53):
and she feels very scared sometimes, and all of these
different hearts, and you know, it was just interesting. We
you and I started talking about, well, sometimes it's sometimes
it's great to get these parts to converse and um
to find some kind of middle ground, because sometimes these

(30:15):
parts of me seem very conflicted, right, And so I
thought it would be interesting to talk about these parts
of us because it really very much. Correct me if
I'm wrong, But it's it's really about, like I said,
finding middle ground within these parts and allowing them, loving
them for who they are, and allowing them space to

(30:35):
express and to connect and to return home. Yes, return
home and join back in that home frequency, right, Yeah,
and feel safe enough to then step back out and
express again, knowing that they can always return back to
that home frequency. Yeah. I feel like Margaret has a
lot of home frequency and her she just she just

(30:57):
like she just does to be kind of stern about it.
I think one of the you know, one of the
big things that I'm wanting to learn and learning is
to be able to express without without anger, like to
really be able to set boundaries and stand up for
myself without it being so charged. Do you feel like
there's a mission in there for you about what discovering

(31:19):
like how to communicate without Yeah? Yeah, through love? Yeah? Absolutely? Um.
And it's complicated. It's complicated when you know I feel like, um,
you know, Leanne's afraid and Margaret's angry. Lean rhymes is like,
you know, um still needing to keep up a facade.

(31:39):
And I think I think it's just really interesting. We
like I said, we all perform, right, So we do
we all? Yeah, we all think of them like think
of your name, like think of who you the construct
you've built up around your name, who you think you
have to be. And then there's this I feel like,
there's this piece of us that's still very young and tender.

(32:03):
And for me, what I recognized in talking through these
parts where that Leanne Rhymes and Leanne both really want
love ultimately. And what do mart Ah, Yeah, that's a
good question, probably the same thing. Yeah, I think she

(32:23):
wants to be heard. Yeah, she really wants to have
her voice be expressed, right, Yeah, for sure. And I
so the process that you took me through to find
these parts, I would love for you to kind of explain,
if you can, um how people may be able to
walk through this process themselves and discover these parts for themselves. Yeah. Well,

(32:45):
I think it's important to to recognize that your experience
of Leanne Rhymes, she she was created starting from a
very young age, and and that persona, if you will,
has been of a bit of a comfort zone, a
comfort space for you. Right. And I think that all
of us we have we identify, whether whether it's just

(33:08):
the ego construct the personality, the name who we are,
that's not the soul per se um that you can
sort of begin to think about. Well, even just ask
yourself the question who am I? And there's actually a
really cool exercise that Deepak Chopra supports, which is you
just keep answering the question who am I? Who am I?

(33:28):
Who am I? And you know, you start you start
by saying, I'm a I'm a daughter, I'm a wife,
I'm a performer, I'm a woman, I'm a you know,
whatever it is you and you just keep going and
then who am I? Oh, I'm I'm a gentle person
or um, I'm a person that has an anger anger
piece that comes out sometimes. And you keep asking yourself

(33:48):
who am I? Who am I? Who am I? And
then you kind of get to a point where, oh,
I am kind of one with everything. It's it's an
interesting way. But as you as you answer those questions initially,
as you're kind of bumping down into the layers of
who and what you identify as um, you can start
to maybe identify some oh, there may be a part

(34:09):
of me here. It may be a part of me
that strongly strongly work identified. Okay, I am I am
an entrepreneur or I am and whatever it is the
title you put on it. So that might be a
part of you that's coming through, UM that could be
helpful to recognize. Um. Another thing I was thinking about was, UM,
I think we had done this exercise as well. Like

(34:31):
whenever you're you're faced with a decision, or you're in
a bit of an inflection point, not necessarily in your
entire life, it could be, but something where you're feeling
some conflict inside or uncertainty about how to move forward. UM.
There's a great exercise where you can take even draw
on a piece of paper, you draw a big oval
table and then when you say, okay, so if the

(34:53):
question is should I should I move to this new
house that I want, let's just take a really random question. Okay,
who what parts of you are showing up with an
opinion about that choice? Okay, there's the part of me
that's concerned about finances. This is an aspect of me
that is worried about that, And there's another part of
me that it's like, I believe in possibility. I want

(35:15):
this experience for my life, and I know that everything
is good to go and this will happen, and I
believe and I trust, so you know, then you can say, well,
who else is showing up around this? And and then
as you begin to see, okay, there are little subsets
of aspects of yourself that are kind of coming around
this kitchen table conversation to express what they have to say,
um other parts of you, there can be subconflicts that

(35:38):
you can then identify. And so so that kitchen table
thing is kind of helpful. And then about that exercise
is then after you've identified who's showing up with an opinion,
you want to put yourself into that sort of witness space,
that observer mode, uh, and just say okay, and you listen,
you write down, or you take note of what each

(35:59):
aspect of around the kitchen table wants to communicate. And
then just like we do for those of us that
our parents, is if the parts of ourselves were our
children were, where we listen to what they feel and
what they desire, and then they trust us to make
the choice that is best for them, that we hold
the highest frequency for their highest good. And so training

(36:21):
that part of you uh to to observe, to hear,
to listen, and then look through the lens of your
home frequency, your soul frequency, through the lens of kindness,
through the through the lens of how am I connecting
to myself and I believing in myself? You know? And
then when you look through that lens, you begin to
have less internal conflict because the voices of those other

(36:44):
parts have been heard. Like and if there are parts
of you that want to have an opinion and we
don't listen to it, then they, like I said, they
really do fight for their life, and they will, they
will act out, yes, they will until they heard yeah,
and they start to drive all of your decisions. You know.
I think I think that can be scary for a

(37:05):
lot of people too, is you know, when you start
to when you start to listen to all these parts
of yourself, it can seem like for me, I know,
it seemed like there's been there's such a huge internal conflict. Um.
But I think what I'm hearing you say is the
conflict only keeps going when we're not listening exactly. Actually, yes,

(37:26):
it actually intensifies when you're not listening. All right, On
that note, we're going to step away for a quick breather,
but we'll be right back. Welcome back everyone. Katie and
I were just discussing how important listening to your intuition

(37:47):
is when it comes to achieving your full potential. This
is something I think about a lot um. Let me
know if if I didn't quite answer your questions or something.
I think one of the aspects of hyper per formance,
if you will, that I think is important to recognize
that there is kind of a dark underbelly, and as
there is to any human condition, but there's what we

(38:08):
would we perceive as a dark underbelly or a dark
side or a paradox where there's the thrill of achievement,
there's a joy of the moment, there's that kind of
touching the divine moment of full soul and self expression.
But then there's the other part of whether it's perfectionist,
and there's the other part of it that's painful, the
self doubt. There is the the internal conflict, the times

(38:29):
when we step out there to to do our thing,
to bring to the world that we love the most,
and we might get paralyzed in fear or it doesn't
come out the way we want it to come out.
So I feel like doing this part's work can be
so helpful and healing because rather than sort of keep
these aspects under the hood, we bring it all forth
and we say, yeah, this is part of being a

(38:50):
high performer. This is part of being someone who who
has something very rich and deep and important to bring
to the world, as every human does. But to recognize
that if that's where you are in your life and
how you roll, and there's a big mission behind that
for you, that there are going to be times when
it feels painful. There's this the paradox of it. To
embrace all of it um and and recognizing the parts

(39:12):
of ether show up around performance will help you kind
of not be in that binary I'm bad or I'm good,
or it's dark or it's light, but just sort of
see all of it is that brings you into the
wholeness of who you are as a human. Yeah. Absolutely.
I mean I know for myself, if I think about that,
like I I used to cut off myself really if

(39:34):
I you know, it's what it really boiled down to,
Like I, I didn't get nervous about anything, and I
you know, I had no fear of of performing at all.
And the more the more I bring my humanness to
the table, like there's I see all of the facets.
The more i'm I have more awareness around Yeah, that

(39:55):
all of those all of that fear was probably there.
I just was really good at shutting it off, right,
And I love you know, hearing you talk about it
right then it's like, oh, yeah, this is this is
all a piece of performance, and it's I just used
to think that I was exempt. I was like, I mean,

(40:15):
you know, there's Lean Rhymes like thinking I have this
specialness that I'm completely exempt from any of that. And
I was for a while, but it was at the
expense of the rest of meatly. And don't you think
that you get to a point in your life, and
I feel like you've been experiencing this over the recent years,
you get into a point in your life where the
shutting it down, the shutting it down, it's just not

(40:38):
sustainable as an as an approach to performance. It's a
short term solution. Because you brought that in, that strong
false self. The identity is LeAnn Rhymes. You brought that
in at a very young age as a coping mechanism
and it worked. It worked until it didn't write. Yeah,
well then I can never get in touch with leanne
at all. Because you know, because that coping mechanism was

(41:02):
keeping me from her. Yeah. So there's so much of
me that I couldn't bring to the table because I
didn't have access because of this massive wall I built
up in order to keep me from from her. And honestly,
talking about it right now is the first time I've
actually had appreciation for it, because I've absolutely hated the

(41:24):
fact that I can't go back. Yeah, you know, I like,
I can't. I can't go back to not having these
very vulnerable pieces of me involved. And now it's like
the journey is, now, how do we support those vulnerable
pieces of me so that they can stay alive and

(41:44):
well and grow and thrive and expand and express themselves. Yeah,
and and come in you know, in those moments and
your performance and the performance of your life. You know
who's going to come in here, who's going to come
in there. So it's this beautiful sort of mosaic of
all these facets of you, right, the facets of the jewel.
You're the jewel. It just has these facets that light

(42:06):
is shining on a particular facet or a couple of
them minute time. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean there's I
feel like there's all there's a lot of pieces that
like to talk it once for sure. Yeah. And then
something else I wanted to bring up for you that, Um,
I know we've touched on it, but is so Leanne
is not necessarily your soul's identity, right, And so you're

(42:31):
beginning as you come into home frequency the observer, I
think there's a recognition which is is that Leanne is
not your soul frequency. And even I believe that as
you're in that soul frequency, your home frequency, and you recognize, um,
your soul desire, your spiritual self, if you will, then

(42:51):
that really heals literal Leanne. It heals Margaret who might
need a stronger voice. It helps Leanne Rhymes recognize if
there's a place where she's she has value, in a
place where she can um where she can be a
conduit for the message that you want to bring to
the world, because she's very well cultivated, she's very developed, right, yeah,

(43:14):
very But it was that was interesting. I remember when
we were working together on this piece, you were saying, well,
isn't isn't the soul in all of those pieces? Yeah?
And I was like, oh, I guess, so I think
about that because yeah, no, it does. Now, I mean
it's I guess the way I see it is, it's

(43:35):
all emanating from the soul. It's just expressions of that.
And then yeah, they're they're all different expressions of the soul.
It's just I think we've I returned back to that
idea of like, Okay, well, then how do I how
do I remain in the soul more or bring more

(43:57):
of that soul forward into these other pieces of myself? Right?
And that's you're you're on that journey. You're doing it.
So the more that you're aware of it, the more
that you can go to what you talked about is
that witness perspective, you know, And then I think there's
there's such a deep wisdom when you really are in
the essence of your soul that you can feel that

(44:19):
you can feel that wisdom, that expansiveness, that oh everything,
everything's all right, and that from there you can be supportive,
you can love on the other parts of you that
are still expressions of you there. You know, maybe it's
the soul putting on a different costume for the day
or whatever and kind of playing a character. I think
the more that you train yourself to recognize the home frequency,

(44:41):
the easier it is to begin to bring that forth.
And and something else that I wanted to point out
was that those of us that are creative performers, creatives
and high performers, right, is that, um, you know, there
there's the there's a perfectionism, there's all so the self
doubt that comes in that we need to make sure

(45:02):
that we pay attention to as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
I mean self doubt confidence like how do those how
can those live beside one another? Because they do? I
mean I'm very confident in what I do, but there's
self doubt that creeps in all the time. How do
those live? I mean they do. I'm like, I know
they live beside each other. How can they live beside

(45:24):
each other more comfortably? Is there a way exactly or
else we can step back from the discomfort or see
the discomfort differently. And it's it's not always comforting, But
I do remind myself that you know, friction makes the pearl,
and heat and pressure make the diamond. That you know
that when things feel pressurized or when things feel challenging,

(45:46):
that there's going to be something on the other end.
There's going to be something that I'm bringing to the
light something that can can move me there, that I
can trust that there's going to be a gift in
an opportunity and what may seem challenging in that moment
that's going to allow some growth or some expansiveness. Mm
hmmm um. In your book, you talk about three things

(46:07):
that you suggest everyone incorporate in their daily mindset to
make like a profound difference in their and their performance. Like,
what what are some of the things that on a
daily basis, are are some minds? Are some mental shifts
that we can bring into help to help support performance?
Oh gosh, there's a whole there's a whole book about

(46:29):
about that. But outside of that, from what at the
top of your head, like, what do you think? What
do you think are some of those, you know, daily
mindsets that we can start to implement that would support
us in the best way when it comes to our performance. Yeah. Um.
One of the ones that I feel is really important

(46:49):
is to remember that there's that that feeling of focusing
on the effort, not on the outcome, of you know,
really surrendering to what is you know, we always say
it's the journey, not the destination. It's true. It's true.
That's true, it is right. And I almost think for
for high performers, we have to hold both. We have

(47:11):
to hold our desire for the destination as well as
a desire to to have a certain experience along the
way to the destination, because I think we've sometimes vilified
competition as it's not good to be competitive, But some
of us are wired to be competitive. I mean, you know,
not every you know. I mean I come from a

(47:31):
competitive sports background, and I've had to just say, yeah,
you know, I'm competitive. That's and and if I turn that,
it's like, okay, well how can I compete with myself?
And if I recognize that there are times when I
might want to compete with others, but we're all there
really to bring our best selves forward and to have
a certain experience along the way of growth. So bringing

(47:51):
it back to that, how can you focus on focus
on the process that you're going through by being present
which is important that you've developed through meditation when you can,
and not not throwing the baby out with the bathwater
by saying well, I don't want to care what, I
don't want to care about the result, but letting yourself
care about the result as well as the process. Yeah,

(48:13):
that's interesting because the desire piece. Sometimes I want to
deny my desire to achieve UM or my the biggest
dream that I have. Sometimes I want to deny it UM.
And it's it's it's a new thing that I'm kind
of playing around with, like how can I And what

(48:34):
I hear you saying, like, how can I desire? How
can I how can I set goals for myself? But
at the same time, UM, let go of it. It's
you know, it's like exactly and let go and enjoy
what is in front of me. Um. And that's so hard.
It's so especially if you've achieved high success very much

(48:56):
so it's been it's always about trying to get back
to it or find you know, or to keep it.
And I think that's one of the most challenging things
for me, is to allow the process to be the
process that it is currently right exactly and to be
in that. What comes up for me is you're saying

(49:18):
that is yeah, and I hear that for a lot
from a lot of my high performing clients. Is while
I'm at the top, how do I stay at the
top or how do I make sure all my performances
are amazing, or how do I you know that mindset
of it needing to stay in a particular way. And
one of the things that I like that I like
to remind people of is what if you had different

(49:38):
kinds of goals. Um, you have a quantitative goal, perhaps
a miserable goal, but then you also set an emotional
goal or a feeling goal for yourself so that you're
you know, what is the feeling you want to have
when you get off stage? What is what is the
feeling you want to have when your company goes public?
You know, whatever it might be, so that that keeps
us that kind of gives us a left brain and

(49:59):
a brain kind of goal, or what is the wisdom goal?
What is the learning you want to have from it?
So that you allow your goals to be some to
be measurable and some to be experiential, and and that
can help mitigate some of that I'm here and I
have to stay here, because when you're in that place,
I'm here and I have to stay here. Then you
get a death grip on it and it can't breathe.

(50:20):
You squeeze a life out of it. All right, we
are going to more fully explore the multifaceted concept of goals.
After a quick break, Hello again, Loves, we were just
talking with Katie Perell about why identifying what's driving your
goals is ultimately more fulfilling than just setting them. And

(50:44):
then it always becomes about more. I mean, I think,
you know, it's like how can I get more? How
can I achieve more? Instead of you know, how can
I Going back to what you said, I guess it's
how can I experience what more? I guess there's a
more in this equation too, but like what more can
I experience? UM? Which does shift things a lot? Does it?

(51:09):
For you? It does? If I think about that, like
what what else is? It's interesting. The other day I
was talking about my forty birthday and I was, UM.
I was talking to Eddie and we were looking at
all these different places where we could go, and I
was like, you know, if I was if we go
to some resort, like this is a very fortunate thing
that I've had in my life, and I think about

(51:31):
how much I've traveled. We go to some resort or
a beach or whatever, like I've I've experienced all of that,
Like I haven't experienced as a safari, but I'm not.
I don't want to go through all of that right now.
I've traveled enough. Um, so there's very few things that
I haven't experienced. And so it's really, you know, like

(51:55):
when I think about but I'm there's so many things
in the human experience that I have an experience, But
if you think about it from that perspective, it's like,
well what else? What else can I experience? And just
the the travel piece for me was really interesting. It's like, Okay,
well what and then it became what I really what
is my soul craving to experience? And I'm ending up
We're going to the trees and like there's you know,

(52:17):
I really wanted this specific feeling and um yeah, and
I think if I look at that in every other
aspect of my life, I think, you know, we talked
about boredom a lot. It's like, I think the soul,
like we're saying, really wants to it wants to experience
more in that way, not achieve more, but like experience more.

(52:41):
And sometimes experiencing more can be really scary because we
only we get stuck in this pattern of only wanting
to experience what we know is familiar exactly how do you?
I love that you call the book Leap because I
just thought, I'm like, how do you how do you leap?
How do you literally how do you leap off into

(53:02):
into those new experiences? Um? Because I you know, I'd
leap a lot, but I also find myself in certain
areas like holding myself back. Yeum, So how do we
how do we what's the first step in I guess
I was like, what's the first step in leaping? But
I don't even know if there's a step. You just
take a leap. It's isn't it funny? I've thought about

(53:24):
that so much. I've sort of had this weird fascination
with what happens in the mind that gets someone to
make that very first Nana's Nana's second movement of wanting
to get off the couch or wanting to step out
into the new thing? What what initiates that change? What
initiates that? Is it too much? Pain? Can be? Totally

(53:45):
can be? And can we get there without the pain?
It's a really good question. I mean, when you think
about motivation, Um, humans really we're kind of wired to
go away from pain and and then once we're away
from the pain. We're kind of like, okay, I could
maybe go towards pleasure. But that's when when we get
far enough away from the pain, that's when it's really

(54:07):
important to say, Okay, when I recognize what was painful,
But if I forget what was painful, then I'm just
going to keep snapping back to continually re experience the
pain so that I keep getting motivated from the pain.
And this is where like the self discipline or the
self awareness of the practice comes in. It's like, Okay,
I was motivated by that pain. Now I'm in this

(54:27):
kind of a bit of a liminal space where I
need to go, Okay, what is it I really want?
What is my soul asking for? What's gonna what is
going to give me sort of this expansive path forward,
whereas the away from pain is very linear. It's just
shoot away from the pain. And then when you look
at possibilities and Okay, when I'm going towards is more possibility,

(54:48):
there are more things that can happen. There's going to
be more n No, And that's for sure. Yeah, I mean,
isn't the pain. It's interesting because if we're not shooting
away from pain, we seem to be shooting towards pleasures.
So there's that duality piece, and it's like our life
kind of dances between the two, and they both can
be very addictive, very much. Absolutely, How do how do

(55:12):
we how do we hang out? How does the how
does the liminal space become addictive? That's what I want
to know. Wow, I think that is an amazing question.
That means not that we want an addiction, but like,
how does that I guess, I guess how does how
does that become our drive? Our driver? Yeah, you know,
it's really interesting. I'm wondering if so. I'm just getting

(55:36):
a picture in my mind of like if we're used
to it something driving us in kind of a linear
direction or forward in some way, or even you know,
like on a past, present and future kind of timeline thing.
And if you think about how you know, the unconscious
mind or even the soul has really has access to
a sense of timelessness and other dimensions, you know, then

(55:57):
maybe liminal space being a draw fiver is to expansion,
not going forward in the same way. But it's that
is the new more is is growth, this sort of
expansiveness and access to other dimensions and the mysticism that
can come in in that sense, and there's so much
to discover in that realm of mysticism and um spirituality.

(56:21):
That was like a big aha moment for me because
I know, because it's it's cool too if I think
about going back to the soul and then wanting to
be it also it wants to experience, and so I
think the driver. Then once the driver becomes the soul,
then that liminal space becomes comfortable, more comfortable, I won't

(56:45):
say comfortable, but more comfortable. Yeah, I think so. And
it's it's great for us to talk about it. I
almost see this spaceship. But you know, like it's it's
it can go many directions as fast as we want,
and it's you know, and it can go a little
distance or it can go a huge distance, just like
a leap can be a little a little toe dip,
or it can be a straight up, you know, big

(57:07):
old dive in off a cliff. You know, it can
be all kinds of different things. But if you know,
as we as we expand and we're less like attached
to going away from pain or going towards measured accomplishment,
then then we can kind of be in this almost
like a hovercraft that is still moving forward, but it's
a it's a hovercraft, and that if our soul says, hey,

(57:30):
I want to go to this dimension, I want that experience,
the hovercraft goes. You know, it's sort of there's just
so much, so much more capacity for movements, so much
more capacity for growth, for exploration into what has yet
to be defined. Yeah, that's fun. It's so fun. Thanks
for coming on here and talking to Thank you. Oh.

(57:51):
I feel like we just like a toe in the water.
It's always fun. Yes, there's so much. I always ask questions. Oh, yeah,
thank you. I am. I always ask my guests about
their favorite songs and their music. So I, um, I
would love to hear your Holy five, My Holy five?
I love that. Yeah. Is it something that's been Are

(58:11):
these things that have been lighting you up your whole life?
Are the things that have been lighting you up recently?
A mix of the two? Probably a mix of the two.
Now I I had them all captured. I guess, I
guess they're in my phone, but I'll remember that funny. Okay, Yes,
Now you know I'm a bit of a child of
the seventies and I love me it's a lot of
base on R and B, so I try not to

(58:33):
have them all the r Andy. I love it. That's
actually I didn't know that about you. I know, I
thought she's interesting to see. This is why I asked
people about music. So interesting, I don't. So let's stay
together al Green on my favorite songs, let's you web Um,

(59:07):
dance to the music Sly in the family Stone. Oh yeah,
you really? I love it. That's awesome. Um. And then

(59:30):
there's this this artist that I discovered when I was
choreographing and skating, and I actually skated to this piece
a couple of times because I just love the way
that she interprets the song. It's Some in China Evening
by Jane Oliver Lovely. Don't know if you've ever heard

(01:00:01):
her voice and the way that she interprets it's it's
pretty magical. Anyway, it was a time in my life
when it was very impactful. The way that she sings.
I think she had like one album check her out. Yeah.
And then Moloswavasito by Molo, which is because she sounds sexy,

(01:00:21):
it's very I used to do a lot of Latin dance.
I used to do so and Flamenco. I studied Flamenco
for a while, which is super fun. Oh that's awesome.

(01:00:42):
And then probably the most current one is perm Bruno Mars. Oh,
I love him. He's great, right, show you what you
get to do? Matter of fact, yeah he is. He's

(01:01:05):
so talented and so joyful. Exactly, you have some joyful music.
I do. I like it. Do you share what your
top five are? I've shared, so I've broken mine down.
I've yet to I need to do that soon. I've
I've broken mine down into feelings because I know there's
so many of them that I um that I we

(01:01:27):
started with the sad music originally because um and I
shared those five and those because sad music seems to
be my place to go to feel Um, I just
love sad songs. There's so many great stories and sad songs.
So I um, I'm you know what's really been interesting,
I've been I have a joyous list now, like I've
like a joyful and I haven't had that before. Um,

(01:01:51):
and that's been something that's only been really cultivated over
the last few months. So who cultivated the joy list?
Which which parts of you or was Well, that's a
good question. I don't know, maybe it is, maybe I
think it. Maybe I think maybe Leanne. Yeah, I think
maybe Leanne. I think there's definitely a piece of me

(01:02:13):
that is wanting to step more into that joy and
so and of course it's coming through first, I think
through music. Yeah, so there's a lot of freedom on
that list of there's a lot of songs about freedom,
and I I think that that's what that Maybe that's
my soul. Maybe that's maybe she's looking to cultivate a

(01:02:34):
lot more joy. Wonder, yes, she she appreciates freedom and
vastness and possibility and openness. And yeah, when one thing
I just want to touch on because we just said
that was the we talked about Leanne and Leeann rhymes
like wanting to have a lot of safety and security.

(01:02:57):
And you asked me, that's exactly what you asked me.
You asked me, what is my soul want? And it
wants it wants change, it wants freedom. And so I
think ultimately there in lies all of our biggest internal battle.

(01:03:17):
If I could boil it down to anything, I think
that's something we all completely share, agreed. And I think
that that is a really great question to kind of
tie in quickly to what you know your listeners can
take away, which is just when you think about it,
what does my soul want to tell me right now?
What does my soul want in general? What does my
soul want for today? You just keep asking the question.

(01:03:39):
Eventually it will continue to come online. I like it.
I like it. Thank you to You're so welcomely and
thank you, honey. I love this. Great to connect, great
to chat about these things that that expands our minds
and our hearts together. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yay, and that,

(01:04:00):
my friends, brings this very special episode and season of
Holy Human to an end. Thank you for joining me
on this journey for a third season. We have had
such a beautiful season and I am so grateful for
all of you for joining me and learning alongside of me.
I want to thank Katie for joining me today and

(01:04:22):
I hope you enjoyed our time together as much as
I have. Please let me know your thoughts by leaving
them in the comments wherever you're listening, and please share
this episode with anyone who could use a little more
self love, acceptance, and awareness in their lives too. I'll
be back very soon with our next season of holy Human,
and I look forward to continuing to grow together and

(01:04:42):
to exploring all the pieces of what makes us more
holy human. Until then, my loves, be kind to yourselves,
be kind to one another, take care of each other,
and I love you guys. Holy Human with Me Leanne
Rhymes is a production of I Heart Radio. You'll find
Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes on the I Heart app,

(01:05:02):
Apple podcast, or wherever you get the podcasts that matter
most to you. H