Stefanos Sifandos

LeAnn welcomes internationally acclaimed life coach Stefanos Sifandos to discuss the impact of the ‘Father Wound’ and how to keep the negativity that comes with overwhelming times from harming our relationships.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I
Heart Radio. Hello, Hello, My Love's Welcome to this latest
episode of Holy Human. It is jam packed with lots
and lots of information. We will be diving into two topics,

(00:20):
mostly with internationally acclaimed life coach Stephanos se Fondos. The
impact of the father wound and how we can keep
our trauma from our childhood from seeping into our romantic
relationships and our sexuality is a lot all that and
more on today's what We're hearing yet, Stefan, did I

(01:03):
get the right Okay, I'm going to call you Steph
because I don't want to mess it up a step
Thanks so much for coming on the Holy Human podcast.
It is an honor to have you on here the
Honors Mark. Thank you for having me. I. I have
followed your work on socials for a while now, and
I love your presence, I love your heart. It's just

(01:24):
so wonderful to have a man in your energy speaking
on the topics you're speaking on, and I I was
just wondering if you can share with people and myself
how you came to be a life coach and get
involved in in the work that you're in. Yeah, you know,
I often get asked that question. And what what immediately

(01:45):
comes to mind, if I have to distill it into
a few words or a sentence of one word, it's pain,
and it's it's obviously I can unpack that. And what
I mean by that, and what I'm referencing internally is
I grew up in an environment that didn't really facilitate
the things that I yearned for. I yearned for as

(02:05):
a child and yearned for as an adult. Safety connection, intimacy, consistency, um, significance,
feeling enough, like worth worthiness essentially, And so my desire
to explore my own internal state, my own feelings, you know,
my own pain, my own shadows, my sadness, my anger,
my rage as a as a young man, as a teenager,

(02:27):
my despondency, and my tibid nous as a child. It
came from those early childhood experiences and my family unit,
my family environment. And you know, it's an interesting thing.
Trauma is a is a very it's an interesting and
intricate beast. And when we experienced trauma, and I'll speak

(02:48):
very directly for myself, but also just understanding how trauma
works in the body and in social circles, we tend
to suppress and repress, and we do that consciously and
unconsciously because it can be so overwhelm me. And so
for much of my life I didn't know why I
was the way I was, and I couldn't quite change
my behavior because I was in constant avoidance of my trauma.

(03:09):
So the way that I dealt with it, to even
answer your question a little more directly, was oh, if
I can help others, if I can support others on
their journey, then maybe at some level I'm going to
find reprieve within myself. There's some element of truth to that,
and it helped and it supported me on my journey.
But the reality was that because I wasn't really looking

(03:29):
at my stuff directly and wasn't able to touch that
in safe ways and revisit it, not retell the story,
but to actually release what was trapped inside of me,
I kept perpetuating the same pain, the same fear, and
the same unhealthy patterns in relating as well. Interesting, So,
so you kind of got into this work before you

(03:51):
fully started to be able to touch upon these darker
I guess that I would. I would sometimes call them
darker and more the more traumatized places within us. I
find that really interesting because I mean that is one
of the reasons why I started this podcast was like, Okay,
I've and I have touched on on my pain deeply,

(04:12):
and I feel like that's a multilayered experience. I wanted
to talk about it. I wanted to be here in
my humanity because the strange thing about celebrity, I think
is our humanity gets cut off in a lot of ways,
and I wanted to relate and share what I've gone through,
what I've learned, in order to hopefully help people on

(04:32):
their journey. But I think you're right. I think there's
there's always places that are left untouched or have yet
to be unearthed. And I find that as I have
these conversations through this podcast, I find that I'm having
to meet myself in those deeper places more and more. So.
It's once you put yourself in in it, there's no

(04:53):
way of getting around it, for sure. Yeah, and I
very much resonate with what you're saying and what I
add to that as well. And another layer is that
the richer and deeper relationships that we engage in and
the more willing we are to see ourselves in the
other and see the other in ourselves those layers of

(05:15):
call it trauma or nuance that resides within us, it
unravels itself at a in a more profound way, and
we're able to touch greater depths within ourselves. I've found
that in my relationships, the more willing I am to
go to those places that are quite uncomfortable, that that
provoked the sense of will they reject me, will they
abandon me? Will they will they humiliate me? Will I

(05:37):
be humulated rather through what they think of me or
how they see me? But can I still be in
my truth? And the more I go to those places,
and then the more I am met. So when that
that sense of vulnerability or truth, that rawness has met
and reciprocated with love and understanding and compassion and empathy,
that's when even more profound layers are revealed and more

(06:00):
growth occurs. And that's been so true in my own life.
Oh my gosh. Absolutely. And it's it's interesting you say that,
because it is I've I've gone through so much, and
I think that people can relate to this of I'm
I don't trust the other person to meet me there
because I wasn't met in my early childhood, and so
I've had to I've had to stop projecting my early

(06:22):
childhood onto those around me in order to give them
a chance to meet me there. And the thing that
I've learned, you know, is can I how deeply vulnerable
can I be without abandoning myself? Because ultimately that's what
we're I feel ultimately, that's what we're deeply worried about,

(06:43):
is that we're we are going to not meet ourselves there.
It's not really about the other, yeah, of course, and
and and very true. And it is because we're so
We're so in our bodies, were so in our being.
It's all about the self preservation and self tection at
some level, especially at a nervous system level. Something that

(07:03):
I say that I say to my clients often is
ensure you are not projecting. You know, your partner, your
husband is not your mother or your father. Your wife
or your partner is not your mother or your father. Honestly,
just you have to remind yourself that because there's so
much unconscious protection that's taking place where we when when
when our partners do something that reminds our nervous systems

(07:25):
of something that happened thirty years ago. There's there's our
body just gets online and says, that's the same things.
They're the same things that happened thirty years ago. We
need to protect ourselves in the same way we did then,
And all of a sudden, you're treating that person as
if they're your mother or your father, or the hurt
that you experienced from a bully when you were younger.

(07:45):
And we have to remind ourselves. And that's where, you know,
we start really working with trauma and learning how to
regulate our nervous systems, and learning how to speak to ourselves,
and learning how to communicate with others and being each
other's presence and set healthy boundaries and all those things.
That's when we start to really undo the past so
that we don't keep coming from the past and we
can come from that new version of self that isn't

(08:07):
greater along with who we truly want to be. Absolutely well,
you started to talk about the mother and the father.
We on the last season we took a deep dive
into the mother wound with Bethany Webster and I had
She Is, and it was so eye opening that whole conversation,
and we had so many listeners that wanted They were like,

(08:29):
is there a father wound? And what does that look like?
Can you address that? And so when I started to
dig into who talks about the father wound, there's not
a lot of people, by the way, who actually discussed
this topic. And I thought that you talked about this
in depth, um and so beautifully that I that's one
of the main reasons I wanted to have you on

(08:51):
was discussed the father wound. So let's just started with
how how do you describe the father? What is that exactly?
How would you define it? You? So before I even
define something that I want to speak to, I think
that's important about the father wound is we have this
this image of the father, and so we're children, were small,

(09:12):
we're literally quite small compared to these adults in the
world that are a lot bigger than us. And that
masculine presence that father for a little girl represents, represents
what my relationship to men can be. This is, you know,
at the beginning stage, it's very visceral, it's very feeling,
basis kin aesthetic. As we get older, we start to
visualize and verbalize and understand this relationship for little boys,

(09:36):
it's more about what is the type of man that
I can be. And so if there's a disconnect in
that father child relationship, if there's abandonment, if there's rejection,
if there's unavailability, if there's violence, if if that source
of love and protection is also the source of terror

(09:58):
for you, it becomes very confusing in our nervous system,
becomes very confusing the way that we attach and so
that father wound, and to clarify thing, this is an
important point as well. There's no formal psychological diagnosis around
the mother wound and the father wound. Um However, the
mother wound and the father wound is something that we

(10:18):
refer to to really understand developmentally, how we've formed our
self identity and how we end up in a in
a whole from a whole perspective, how we end up
relating to our intimate partners, how we relate to intimacy itself,
how we relate to self worth, and how we relate
to protecting ourselves in relationship. Because we all do that,

(10:42):
we all have layers of protection. Some are more extreme
than others. For me, it was it was a great
deal of emotional abuse. I would push my partners away
in the past by being hyper defensive, by being hyper aggressive,
by attempting to be in control because I as a child,
I was so out of control. And with specifically my father,

(11:07):
he was very violent, he was averant, he was unpredictable,
he was very moody. There was a great deal of
uncertainty and unavailability. So I didn't have structure and stability.
I didn't feel stable within my own nervous system, within
my own mind. And so when we're talking about the father,
when we're talking about structure stability, we're talking about that
masculine presence that is safety that we can trust, that

(11:29):
we can lean into, that we can be ourselves and
be met for who we are and as we are
without judgment. When we miss that, when we don't have
that stability in our lives, the cascade effects as adults
is immense. Yeah, I can relate to that completely. My grip.
My dad was really angry. There was a lot of

(11:50):
anger in the house. And um he also loved me deeply,
and I think there's yeah, very confusing. Um know, someone
who was constantly a part of my life and helping
me sing and like you know, we connected through through music.
Was also you know, very um, very angry and very

(12:14):
unapproachable at times. And I've noticed it's really interesting around
three o'clock in the afternoon. Three, Um, this is something
I've started to recognize. Um, I'll start to get really,
really anxious and I I'm like, why, why is this
happening at the same time every day? And it was okay,
that was when I got picked up from schools, when

(12:35):
I started coming home, you know, coming home to the
house that then he was going to come into buy
five o'clock, and I didn't know what I was going
to get. And I can totally relate that my nervous
system is still even though I'm completely safe in my home,
I have a wonderful husband, and that I had that
sense of safety, my nervous system is still as much

(12:56):
as I've worked through so many pieces of it, it's
still stuck back in that time of not quite knowing
what I was going to get with my father. Yeah,
and that that trauma by association is your body telling
you that there's something that's unresolved within you. Because if
that's you know, if you're and the interesting thing is

(13:17):
you may say, but I've never had this before. It's
just come on. And there are a few There could
be a few reasons for that. It could be because
your body and your being, your entire mind body complex
is actually ready to deal with that and close the
loop on that trauma. It could meet because you've done
deeper spiritual exploration and it's unearthing some old stuff and
it's presenting itself in this way and it is a

(13:38):
beautiful opportunity to actually work through the core wounds of
that um And it's also really challenging and very painful.
Like and what do we do when something is really
challenging and really painful. Now, yes, we sometimes can meet it.
We can meet that pain and that challenge where where
it's at. But more often than not, we check out.

(13:59):
It's like, well that's too difficult. I'm going to check out.
I'm going to go back to what I'm going to
work a lot. I'm going to focus on more pleasure
in my body. Could be eating, could be drugs, could
be alcohol, It could be distractions. It could be adrenaline.
It could be shopping, It could be t vehic or
whatever it is that puts more pleasure in our body,
that that compensates for the big pain that we're attempting
to avoid. The thing that we missed though, And this

(14:20):
is what I missed for so many years in my
own life was I didn't quote unquote no, and I didn't.
I didn't quite get that if I simply lean into
this thing that's presenting itself, I didn't even have to
pursue it or chase it. That's another conversation we can
come to that. But this thing that's presenting itself is
discomforting my body, this thing that feels a little quote

(14:40):
unquote abnormal, out of out of sync for me. If
I sit with it, if I address it, if I
move it through my body, if I share it with
a coach, a therapist, et cetera, if I if I
start to be in deeper communion with it, what would happen?
And what ended up happening when I when I surrendered
to all of that, I said, I have to face
my stuff because I'm reaking havoc on every relationship that

(15:02):
I'm in, including myself. I'm in great avoidance. I mean,
you know, and this is years ago. I'm in massive debt.
Nothing is really working in my life, and I'm blaming
everything and everyone but me. I'm not looking at me.
I'm not taking response to me when I did. And
this is the paradox, right, the more we lean into it,
the fast we moved through it. That and that that

(15:24):
has been so true for me and so true for
the thousands of clients that I've worked with, thousands upon
that that's the truth. Yeah, it's It's interesting because when
we're in that situation where it's super super uncomfortable and
you want to reach for you want to reach for something,
whether it's the remote or the drink or cigarette or
whatever it is, how do we begin to find Okay,

(15:47):
so that that discomfort is there, but we're looking for pleasure.
So how do we begin to find the pleasure from
the inside even with that discomfort that's there? Like, how
how can we hold both of those things? And how
do we start to summon the pleasure from the inside out? Yeah,
we have to learn to be with the pain, and

(16:09):
I can't. I might want to. I want to get
to the pleasure part. I just want to. I guess, Yeah, yes,
you do have to learn to be with pain. Yeah,
and that means feeling it. But here's a thing, right,
like it's easy for me to say, just feel it.
And I'm not coming from a place where I haven't experienced,
you know, immense trauma and chronic and acute trauma and
so forth. And I'm coming from a place that I've

(16:31):
worked through that and I continue to work through that.
It's not just not a it's unless I'm enlightened, which
I don't believe I am. I'm going to continue to
work through that stuff and the layers that come up
right because of the work that we do previously that
prepares us for the present moment in the now. But here,
here's the thing is, we learned to sit with a
pain in relationship, not only in relationship to that thing

(16:53):
that's within us, but in relationship external to us. And
so one of the greatest things that we can do
for our nervous and for our healing is to being
the presence of safety. And what that tangibly looks like
is being the presence of people that see you through
and beyond your pain with no judgment and with compassion,

(17:18):
and there's a softness to them that you're through. Our
new reception of being in the world, the unconscious ways
in which our nervous systems assess our environment. We feel
that this person is safe. They're not judging me, they're
not going to criticize me. Because we're talking about the
father wound. We're talking about the you know, the father
wound referring to absenteers and emotionally or physically, which can

(17:41):
be interpreted as rejection. We're talking about the father women
being that critical, negative, even abusive character, and and it's
that that impacts our sense of self worth. And so
when we're talking about being with the pain, one of
the greatest things that we can do for ourselves is
see to be in the presence of people that will

(18:03):
nurture our pain. They won't appease us, there, won't be
complacent with us and allow us to be in this negative,
perpetual state of being. But they can hold us without
this is this is the interesting thing, without their own
pain being triggered because they've done their internal work. Here's
an interesting thing, right whenever you when you in business

(18:25):
circles or you're in athletic circles, you'll often hear a
phrase very similar to this. You know, surround yourself with
people that are better than you, like if you want
to make a million dollars. Go speak to someone that's
made a million dollars. If you want to make a
hundred million dollars this year, then get a coach that
knows how to do that. If you want to lose weight,
then be with the coach who is has gone down
that path, who is understands a body who shows and

(18:47):
demonstrates that themselves. Right, it's the same in healing. Surround
yourself with people that have walked that path that you
want to walk because that confidence, because that's the thing.
We lack the confidence to go into the pain. So
when we are surrounded with people that have been there
and we feel that, we don't just know it, but
we feel it, that gives us confidence, and that gives

(19:09):
us an inspiration to move into the pain. And we
move into the pain. We equilibrate it, and there are
methods to do that, of course, and it happens over
a period of time, and then the conversation of pleasure
naturally occurs. It's not something that needs to be forced
because we're not in avoidance, we're not numbing. That's that's
the beauty of sitting with our stuff in safe spaces. Well,

(19:31):
I guess when you're numb the pain, you also know
the pleasure, so you're just yeah, you can't have one
without the other. Yeah, well it's interesting you say, you
know people that can hold your pain without it triggering theirs.
I think for a lot of us. I know, for
myself in my family, like I'm the first generation. I'm
an only child, but the first generation that is taking

(19:55):
care of their own pain. And I think a lot
of people can feel very lonely and this journey because
they are the first and it's in our our family circles,
in our closest circle, sometimes you are the only one.
So it's like, where do I start to find those others?
You know, whether it's you know, some people don't have

(20:15):
the money to hire a coach or a therapists Like, okay,
well where do I start? Where do I either start
to find those communities of people that can hold me
and or can you create that for yourself to like,
how do we create safety when there's when we don't
have another to hold us in that space? Yeah? First

(20:37):
see your generational pattern breaker. So congratulations, I know, right,
it's a beautiful thing. Yes, it's a beautiful thing for
the people that you come into contact with. Including your family,
because you're not going to pass that down to your children. Yeah,
and I've that was one of my key reasons, you know,
I'll be forty in August, and I've I've never been

(20:59):
going home about having kids of my own because that
was that was one of the things. I was like,
I'm not passed. I can't pass this down. I'm not
doing it. Um, And I maybe I don't know if
kids from my own. I have two stepsons that I've
been so fortunate to be a part of their lives,
but um, I don't know if that's ever a part
of my life. And that's okay. But I was really
adamant about like, I can't. I can't pass this down.

(21:22):
It has to it has to end with me. Yeah,
and I can't And I can't pass it down. I
can't pass it on because every interaction that we have,
if we're coming from that pain, or we're coming from
a place of wanting and needing to avoid that pain,
we're wearing masks in every interaction we have that take
away from the true essence of who we are now

(21:44):
what that does. And we spoke about new reception early
around and to get a little just very briefly technical,
it's just it's just our nervous system through enteric system,
just picking up on vibes in the environment, right, And
it's it's an assessment that we developed over millions and
years of evolution. And so if that person is picking
up on you wearing masks, that will trigger them to

(22:04):
wear masks. And now all of a sudden, you're having
inauthentic conversations, and there feels like something's missing. Because we're
far more intuitive, we're far more connected than what we
give ourselves credit. We can't can't tap into it because
of the clutter that exists in our lives or mentally, emotionally, spiritually, relationally, sexually.
And so now we've got billions of people having inauthentic

(22:26):
interactions and almost triggering traumatic interactions, which perpetuates more of that.
And I want to I want to honor the question
that you asked around well, how do we do that?
How do we create say space, do we create s spaces?
Do we do we seek them? What do we do?
I think it's both and and I think what we
do as a starting point is we at some level

(22:47):
we have to take self responsibility. We have to we
have to be be responsible for how we see ourselves and
how we see the world and the life that we
want to live. And so what feels safe enough? Here's
here's the key from it's enough. It's not safe, it's enough.
It's because it's the same thing. I'll go to the
gym when I lose ten pounds, right right right, and

(23:12):
it will be right back with more steps offndos right
after this quick break, welcome back, my loves. We were
just talking with steps Offndos about how we can start
taking responsibility for the way that we view ourselves and

(23:32):
our relationships. So can you as an individual, Can we
as individuals make a commitment to ourselves and say, I'm
going to share something with someone, I'm going to test
the waters that I wouldn't normally share. And if it
gets quote unquote rejected, which is a whole other conversation
around rejection and if that even actually exists, but we

(23:54):
can get into that later. But and if I get humiliated, rejection, rejected,
abandon whatever my call wound is, you know, sense of loss,
whatever comes from that interaction, can I be okay with it?
Because what I've shared isn't too deep or isn't too
much of a risk now when we look at that
and having that conversation that requires self assessment, and self

(24:15):
assessment leads to self awareness, and so we have to
be active and commit to ourselves, even if it's ten
fifteen minutes a day, to assess where we're at internally,
to have those inner dialogues with each other, you know,
in a child work, internal family systems um you know,
somatic work, trauma release work, even just cognitive behavioral therapies

(24:35):
can can all support and assist. Right, it's a combination
of all these tools and techniques that we use. But
can we feel safe enough to begin to share and
then when we get feedback that that that thing that
we shared wasn't rejected next time, we can do a
little more. In trauma, it's called expanding our window of tolerance.
It's edging right, and not edging in the in the

(24:56):
sexual sense, it's edging in them in. We're coming close
to the edges of what's really uncomfortable. We're not diving
into the pool that is too deep. We're still in
the shallows, but it's uncomfortable. And the more we can
do that, the more we expand that window of tolerance,
the more we can share ourselves more with with greater

(25:18):
clarity and more more vulnerability. The easier we will notice
groups in our environment that we can then seek that
are in greater allowment with us because we're creating that
in our reality. Yeah, I mean, you can't that whole
saying if you know, people can only meet you as
deeply as they've met themselves. And it's like, you know,
how can you You have to be able to be

(25:41):
honest and open with your own self in order to
to be able to share, because I know that was
a big thing for me, was what am I hiding
from myself? Like, you can't you can't unfold, you know,
and be be vulnerable with someone unless you can start
to do that with your self. And that's been the

(26:03):
key that you know, that's where the journey begins, right,
I mean, that's what I hear you saying, And it's
it's definitely like I said, there's there's layers too, you know,
I know I we all still lie to ourselves. I
think in certain ways there's always the shadow of where
am I truly not being honest with myself? And um,
I had a conversation with a friend the other night

(26:24):
of you know, is there truly a relationship where you
are completely open with one another? And for me, I
was like, I don't, I don't know if that's If
there ever is that was just from my point of
view because I I feel like there's still things I
don't know about myself. But as soon as I start
to learn and open up that piece of myself to

(26:45):
myself and I start to process it, I begin to
want to share that with my husband as soon as
I understand that piece of me. So yeah, as soon
as you're in deep communion with it, right, Yeah, absolutely.
Something that came to me when you when you ask,
and I agree with you, I you know, we're constantly
evolving moment to moment, day by day, week to week,
month to month, year to year. We're unraveling more of ourselves,

(27:08):
were exposing more of ourselves to ourselves into the world.
The question I have, and it's a question for you
while we're here having conversations, is you asked the question,
you know, can can I share all of myself? I
don't know myself? What if we ask the question, and
even if you did know of yourself, which we probably

(27:28):
never quote unquote will even if you did do we
need to share all of ourselves? Yeah? No, I I agree, um,
And this is interesting for me on and you're you're
also in the public eye, so you're you're and you're
sharing tons of you yourself and your own relationship. So

(27:49):
I agree, do we um? I think it for me,
it really is it's about what feels right in the moment.
I feel like, it's what how I It's like, how
can I connect with the person in front of me?
And also, you know, I guess for me, I'm always
wanting to share from my heart and from a place

(28:10):
that that builds connection that also makes the person in
front of me feel welcome and can and and welcome
to be all of who they are. And I think
that's for me. It's like it's a moment to moment
thing and what like you're saying, do I feel safe
in this experience? And I'm also sharing when you're sharing

(28:33):
on a world stage and you For me, like my
deep parts of myself inform my creativity. They inform my
writing and it's sometimes the most uncomfortable things that I
can't speak about I can sing about, so all of
a sudden, the places that are really really tender or
scary for me become songs and then am I finally

(28:56):
able to actually have those conversations. So for me, I
know it's it's definitely multilayered when it comes to what
and how and where and who I share it with um.
But I think it's a constantly evolving thing. And I
do think we need to keep pieces of us for us.
I think that's really important. I think there's value in that.

(29:19):
I think there's deep growth now. I think from that place,
we're able to actually give more of ourselves in meaningful
ways to others that really need it by by saving
something sacred for ourselves. And again, the paradox and the
universal joke, you know, depending on what you you know,
what ethos or philosophy you adhere to, is the universal

(29:41):
joke is there's such a deep interconnectedness that we're all
one and the same anyway, but we don't realize that
because we're under this illusion of such deep separation and
and to some extent that exists in our reality because
of the reality that we choose to live in, and
that separation causes fear because there's unknown and uncertainty in

(30:04):
the separation, and so we what I've seen in the
world is that we remain then closed, We keep our
cards really close to our chest, and we don't reveal
who we truly are. And I come back to what
I said earlier around if we're doing that, others pick
up on that unconsciously, and then they begin to do
that as well. And so we're in this these relational

(30:24):
dynamics that just aren't real because we're unwilling and or
unable to really just look at ourselves and who we
are and who we want to be in the world.
There's fear with making a declaration and making a statement
of I want to be this, I want to be
free of this, or I choose to be living in
this way, because what if it doesn't happen, especially if

(30:47):
we were promised so much when we were younger. You know,
I promise I'll be home at six pm, and your
dad just keeps coming home at ten pm or whatever
it may be, right, and that we we we live
we have lived a life of broken promises, and we've
made that mean that we're not enough, we're insignificant, or
we're less than. Then making bold statements or declarations around

(31:08):
how we want to live is very challenging and so
there's so many nuances that are underneath that. On the surface,
it looks like just say you want to live this life.
It's simple, but it's actually not. Man, what you just
said hit home with me because I know I have
lived my life a lot of my life in avoidance
of disappointment, and that's exhausting and it's it's sad, it's

(31:32):
it's there's a lot of grief I know around that
for me because not only of the disappointments that have
happened in my life, but the avoidance of it. It's
like all the dreams and all the desires and things
that I'm not living out or haven't lived out because
of wanting to dance around the fear of disappointment. And
then under that, like you're saying, is the self worth

(31:53):
issue of I'm not worthy of my desires? And um,
I think all of us can relate to that. I've
said so many times. I feel like self worth is, like,
is the core issue we're all living with. It's like
the basis of everything that gets built upon it when
it comes to the father wand like, how do we
know maybe the the avoidance of disappointment, how do we know,

(32:18):
like when this is showing up in our lives, like
how how does that look? Yeah, yeah, so I'll give
you some UM. And this may relate to you. This
may relate to some of the audience, like some of
these characteristics or or you know, levels of experience may relate.
They may all relate. They may you know only some
of them. But let me let me go through a few.
So so, as an adult, you may experience oppressive, controlling, subjugating,

(32:44):
and aggressive behavior that maybe you and the world towards others,
especially when you feel threatened or when you feel someone's
making you wrong or they're telling you that you could
be doing something better. The way that we interpret that
is all about coming back to what you said about
low self worth and low self esteem, and then we
transmute that into control and oppression and anger and rage.

(33:06):
Hyper competition, so excessive competition to be the best, to
prove oneself right, to seek that validation at any cost.
And this can happen both in men and women, in
all adults. It's not just this is not just for men,
by the way, and be really clear on that these
are expressive states of being UM struggle to have healthy
friendships because it's it's a trust issue again. Rather, there's

(33:29):
so much trust that's vested in the father, and if
we cannot trust ourselves and others, we will struggle to
create intimacy in our friendships, very little mastery of our
over our sexuality, and so that can look differently in
men and women, but essentially it could be um either
a promiscuity that takes place and a hyper hyper sense

(33:51):
of aroused like excessive reliance and addiction to pornography or
having sex, or validation through intimacy. In other words, how
someone you know, code dependence, how someone sees us really
like we really need someone to see us in a
particular way for us to feel okay about ourselves at
a bare minimum, and that can really show up in sexuality.
And it can also not just show up in hyper sexuality,

(34:13):
it can show up in being withdrawn from our sexual
expression as well. Our sexual expression isn't just the act
of sex. It's about our personalities and how confident we
are in our bodies and how confident we are in
our beings and how we move through space and time,
not only in relationship but in accordance with what we
value most as well. Um, you know, I've touched on

(34:34):
the validation, but I'll elaborate on that through through accomplishment
and through status, and that can show up differently. So
for you know, if we use a conventional example, it
could be in the business world, it's about how quickly
can I climb the corporate ladder, you know. In a
more sexual, intimate example, it could be how many people
can I sleep with or how can I attach myself

(34:57):
to a high status person and being intimate relations ship
with them so that I'm then seen as a high
status person as well. Right. Um. Otherwise, that you can
potentially tell you've got the father wound or you're you know,
you're in that unresolved wounding is you feel a sense
of lostness within yourself. So you feel lost, you don't
feel whole, you feel fractured and broken. So again you

(35:18):
don't feel enough. So then we need to compensate for that.
So we seek the validation. We seek feeling better about ourselves.
And that pleasure can come in so many different ways.
We may lack drive, inspiration, vision, and purpose. Um, that
can be another indication that there's a there's a disconnection
there because we never got that. Again, that structure we
never got that from our father. Maybe that father was

(35:41):
very driven in his own hyper selfish ways or self
absorbed ways, but never implemented that or that ethos into
the family dynamic. Um, if you're purely driven by our
goal orientation when it all costs attitude, that can that
can be part of the father wound. Um, here's an
interesting one. And I'll share a personal story here on

(36:03):
this as well, unconscious seeking of father's approval and acceptance.
And I'll share something with lean on this. I still
do this. I will I will have like a win
in my life, whatever the win is, right, And I'm
just I'm just thinking of my daughter. So I'm some
tears are coming because a new father. But I will
say in my head, I will say this. I say,

(36:26):
if only Babak would see this. But the Greek word
for dad, right, And he's still alive, by the way,
just lives in Greece, so you know. And and he's
not in my life at the moment because he's a
physical distance, right, But we talk um, And there's been
a lot of reconciliation that's had to take place, but
there's still passed me like if I if I do
something really cool, in business. It's like, oh if if

(36:47):
Barbark would see this now, you know, and I'd say
it in Greeks. I usually I speak Greek, and I
speak when I think of my dad. I speak Greek
even when I'm talking to myself. But it's that like
it's still exists. And even though I've done a lot
of work, and I have done a lot of work
in this area, you know, at least something funny. You
know that song Um the Living Years Mike and the Mechanics,

(37:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh god, that song kills me
every can't listen to it every time, every time and
guarantee it every time. And and that there you want
to talk about father Wound. That is a beautiful example
in music of the Father Wood. Yes, yeah, I mean
a couple more top of my head. But there's the
self loathing, the self hate, the self destructive behaviors. And

(37:39):
you know, this is the this is the you know,
the enough is never enough attitude. But let me go,
let me go back to the self loathing, self destructive behaviors.
This is very prominent in men and adolescent boys wanting
to prove to their father that they're enough. Females will
do that tend to do that a little differently, and
it tends to not always but tends to come through
either in hyper masculine behavior in in the corporate world,

(38:03):
or it will come through hyper promiscuity. And again men
do this as well, they just do it in different ways.
But for men, it's more the adrenaline. It's more how
far can I push my edges, how can I do
the really difficult thing, or the really dangerous thing, or
the really intense or extreme thing, or the thing that
makes me the most money, Because it's about resource gathering,
and that's one of the ways that we identifying the
world as as as masculine embodied men um to get

(38:27):
my father's attention. So there are some of the ways,
and I'm sure there are more, but there are some
of the ways that you can, you know, tell if
you have some disconnection with the with the father there
and that relationship needs to be mended. I was like, check,
check check, check check, Yeah, very sure. Well, I mean,
you know, my dad, My dad and I have had

(38:48):
a very fractured relationship and I don't talk to him
very often. I love him, and I I have done
enough work on myself to have empathy and understand where
and why where it came from, why why he made
some of the choices that he made. Um. But it
is still you know, there's not a lot of a

(39:10):
lot of reconciliation that has that has gone on in
that relationship. You know, as if people are strange from
their father or you know, they maybe their fathers passed away.
I mean, do you do you recommend that those conversations
actually happen with with the father to to reconcile or

(39:30):
is there are there other ways to go about starting
to heal this relationship or fracture with ourselves. Yeah, yeah,
that per saved factor within ourselves because ultimately, true essence
is wholeness. So I believe that at least, Yes, agreed.
But look, you know, healing, forgiveness, all the things that

(39:52):
we strive for, it's an inside job ultimately. So the
answer your question, the very direct answer your question is
yes and no and more off and then it's a no.
And I'll be really transparent with you to like I've
had very direct conversations with my father and saying, hey,
do you remember doing this, this, this, this, and this,
And He's like, no, I never did that. I was
a great father, Hi, my mine to my mother too,

(40:14):
like I mean, they'll be they'll deny, deny, deny, and
I get it. I understand why, but go ahead and no, no, no,
but you're right, like we understand why as adults, but
as children, this is where in a child work is.
So as children, we don't and nor should we get
the why. It's not it's not it's not our our
responsibility to understand why. It's it's for us to feel safe,

(40:36):
and so our our role as adults reparenting ourselves. And
this is where this where is an inside job is
to help that that part of us. And I'm not
talking about fracture and fragmentation here, but we're gonna be
very careful with that language to to the to the
point where we know we're not referring to a a
cognitive disorder or a diagnosable mental illness or anything like that.

(41:00):
We're talking about parts that were made of Like the
way that we see the world is through a different parts.
Are you show up a little differently to your husband's
and how you may show up to a friend, And
it's not that you're being inauthentic, it's just different parts
of you will come out in different relationships and different environments.
That's that's what we're made of us. We see the
world in different, in compartmentalized ways, and so it's working
with the parts of us that are really hurt. And

(41:22):
so it's really an inside job. And you know, there
are tools and techniques. There are there's in a child work,
there's somatic work, there's m. Gastult style therapy. There's there's
journal prompts and and letter writing and cathartic releases that
can take place. There's so many different avenues that we
can go down right in terms of the modalities and

(41:43):
the tools that we use to start healing and repairing
that relationship. And part of it is understanding and part
of his releasing and feeling what was unfelt, because I
think like yourself as violence was abuse, it was volatility, right,
and so what did your little girl, your little girl
meaning you, what did she do in those times? Did
she freeze? Did she want to flee? And and flight?

(42:09):
We've got to get to how was happening in the
nervous system, because even if you were fighting or in
flight right where you're taking more action, that's great, and
there's some level of self preservation protection that's taking place,
that's more active, so you feel more empowered as opposed
to just freezing. But there's also emotions that were unexpressed,

(42:31):
and so we've got to get to those unexpressed emotions
and those unexpressed bodily somatic movement which are stored in
our bodies at a cellular level, and get them moving again.
And again, the foundation of that is creating a safe
environment for that to happen. So when all of that happens,
and it takes it's a process. It happens over time
with intention and attention and care. And as that happens,

(42:55):
your relationship the way you see your father, your mother,
you meet any on us that's listening to this, it
shifts and changes. And we are going to shift into
a very brief break right here, but we'll be right back.

(43:17):
Welcome back, my friends. Steph and I were just discussing
the significant shifts that can occur when we cultivate a
safe foundation within ourselves to process childhood trauma. And because
of that, remember we spoke to about new reception earlier,
right because we are now on all these different levels,
including subtle levels, and layers are reacting or rather responding

(43:38):
differently to our parents, they actually respond differently to us,
so they don't perpetuate the old parental dynamics that they
once did as well, because we don't need to be
in that dynamic anymore, because you're not living from that
seven year old girl that was terrified. You're now living
from an empowered place where she feels safe. Sang. That's
the money, right, That is so true. And it's interesting

(44:00):
because I I've noticed I'll oscillate back and forth between
both of those. There are some days my mom and
dad could call me and I'd be like, I love
you and all as well, and I can you know,
I can make those choices from the adult space. And
then there's other times where I can't even pick up
the phone because I'm frozen in the trigger of just
seeing their name. Just depends on the day. And I

(44:23):
think that's natural for so many of us who have
been through you know, trauma with our parents. For sure,
Oh yeah, very very much. Sure. And it's also a
beautiful you know, in those momentsly and if I if
I may, um may make a suggestion, yeah please, yeah,
in those moments, you know, it's not about picking up
the phone you're gotta, you've gotta, you've got to be
self honoring, right, whatever that looks like for you. But

(44:44):
in those moments, it's taking advantage of that that somatic,
that bodily thing sensation that's coming up and working with that.
And and even if it's putting a hand on your
chest and a hand on your belly, on your on
your nurturance canal, which activate your vegas. Now that tells
you body that hey, we're safe here, right, like even
skin to skin, ideally under the under the shirt skins. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

(45:08):
some slow breathing and asking that part literally in your
own mind or even out loud, what do you need
right now? And it may need to run and walk
and may need to drink a glass of water your
body knows, it may need to scream into a pillow,
it may need to sob. But if you can do
more of that, and again the safety and confines of
your own space, that starts to shift, and what happens

(45:29):
is less and less. Do you have that old reaction
of freezing when you see their names on yourself phone?
I mean I had that for years with my brother
or on an unknown number, because my brother went through
many years of being a drug addict in the way
that impacted our family and getting calls from police and
drug rehabilitation centers and all the all the things, and

(45:52):
you know, or from my mom and and even when
I saw my mom's name for years, I would be
like that, because Okay, what needs to happen? Now? What
do I need to do? What actually do I need
to take? Like? Who don't need to beat up? Like?
What needs to happen? You know, he's gone through all
of that now where best of friends. And I miss
him immensely. He went on his journey and he's been
drug free for over a decade um, and he's a

(46:15):
phenomenal human Being's got three beautiful children. I mean, he's
just amazing father. I aspire to him. He's my old
younger brother. I looked to him to be a father.
You know, he's just so good, Um, in all different ways.
Goose bumps talking about it. And I get what you're
saying around the freezing peace. It's intense. It is intense,
And I love that you just said. Something that clicked
for me is the self honoring peace. UM, when it

(46:37):
comes to our parents, especially when we've gone through codependency,
and we are. We've always put and had to as children,
put other people's emotions and feelings ahead of hours in
order to feel safe. We don't self honor. And for me,
you know, when I when I don't answer their phone call,
like the guilt that can come up around that because

(47:00):
because I self honored because I didn't, and it's like, Okay,
I know I'm in avoidance right now, and I also
know within that avoidance, I'm also taking care of myself
because there's a piece of me that I know is
really triggered right now and it and it's uh, there's
a for me. I've had to recognize that both can exist.

(47:21):
I'm in avoidance and I'm also taking care of myself
and I don't have to feel guilty as an adult
woman about saying no, not right now to my parents.
And I think when you when you deal with you know,
the mother and the father, and you know still as
adults those we feel we can feel such guilt around

(47:42):
placing ourselves, you know, before our parents, especially if we've
grown up in that kind of situation. So I love
that you just said self honoring is such a key
piece to our own healing and recognizing that it is
okay to say no and to set boundaries and take
care of ourselves are round our parents. It's necessary because

(48:04):
remember that little one didn't have that voice. That little
one didn't have the authority that you do as an adult.
They didn't have the opportunity to say no or stop
m especially more extreme cases. It's not even more extreme case,
but you know, in case of sexual abuse or physical abuse,
any any invasion on that boiler. As little children, we

(48:27):
didn't have that voice. We didn't have that capacity, and
so saying no is so important. And honestly, the more
we say no when it's needed, the more we create
space for authentic yes is to come into our lives
and what we want to say yes to, the relationships
that we want to say yes to, the way we
want to be treated. But again, this is a muscle. This,

(48:48):
this muscle of confidence needs to be built over time.
And again the more we're practiced in saying no and
not feeling the guilt, the guilt and shame, because that
guilt and shame is and we come let's come back
full circle for a moment around, you know, looking up
to the father, because again, you know, it's not just
what the father can be or what what kind of
man can I be? Or a little girl looking up

(49:09):
to the father and saying, you know, what can a
man be in my life? We're talking about the deifying
of our parents, or we do that. We deify our parents,
we see them as God's because we're so helpless and
hopeless as children, and there's that projection and perception there,
and it's a hard fall from grace because a we're human,
but be especially if we're unhealthy parents, or we we

(49:30):
have unresolved within ourselves. And so that father is also
the the you know, the big sky father is what
what's the ultimate the ultimate symbolism of healthy masculinity and
and protection all those things that come under that banner.
And so when we when we learn to be with
those parts of ourselves that have been hurt and we

(49:53):
learn to not feel that will choose not to feel
the guilt, the repetitive guilt, will then make more self
honoring choices that places in a position to simply be,
in the most simplest language, be better humans. That's it.
I love that. I want to I want to now
kind of go into a little bit of a different

(50:14):
typic because you mentioned though a bit tis into this.
You mentioned sex and sexuality. You have a book coming
out in September. Can you tell us what that title
isn't a little bit about it? Yeah, of course. So
the title is tuned in and turned on bringing a
sacred connection and sacred sexuality into intimacy, and the book
essentially is about that. It is about sacred intimacy, it

(50:35):
is about connection in relationship with self and with others,
and it's about clearing the clutter of our past. It's
about doing our inner work. It's about healing our past
traumas so that we don't continue to bring those traumas
into our sexuality, into our intimacy, into our adult relationships,
so we can start to live fuller, more whole lives

(50:56):
and not come from a sense of fracture because we
haven't dealt with the stuff that's really hurt us, that
we keep compressing and avoiding a numbing which I love
this so much. I cannot wait to read your book
because you know, I'll be forty like I said in August,
and sex is I think for a lot of adults.
I know I'm not the only one like sex and
money obviously are too hot topics that it's difficult to

(51:19):
talk about and I'm finally, like, finally, I think starting
to be able to have these conversations consciously, um, because
there's so much shame around There's so much shame around sex.
I mean, as you talk about it being you know,
connected to the father wound. For me, I have been

(51:39):
very connected to my sexuality and I've been disconnected at
the same time. It's like this push poll and to
not be able to have these conversations, I mean, to
bring consciousness to it. We first have to have these conversations.
So how do you suggest, as you know, I mean,
I think there's so much even shame around not being
able to have the conversation as an adult. So it's

(52:02):
like layer on layer of type of shame. How do
we begin to approach this topic, um, consciously and with
care and Greece, Yeah, well we live in your your right.
We live in quite a repressed society, in in so
many different ways, in quite a hypocritical society. And to me,
hypocrisy is a natural part of progression and growth. Actually

(52:22):
it's actually a healthy part of progression and growth. I
think the quote unquote mistake that we make as a
humanity we remain in hypocrisy too long without actually moving
beyond it, and we never really learn and grow because
you know, the hypocrisy pieces, there's an old idea or
an old version of self, and then there's a new
version of self that is an idea, and we're moving
towards a new version of self, but the old version
likes to being familiar patterns because it's safe and comfortable,

(52:45):
and so there's this tug of war, and then it
gets a little too difficult, we'll just go back to
the old ways, and we just stay in the old ways. Right,
So when it comes to sexuality, it begins with us
again because what often happens and what I've found in
my own life, I couldn't actually simply being conversation with
myself around what my sexual desires were because I had

(53:05):
so much shame and guilt around it. I couldn't just
be honest with myself. I couldn't even just get a
piece of paper and write down what am I sexually
curious about? What are some of my sexual fantasies, my
sexual dreams, because I was so judgmental. And so we
can we can have the conversation around you know, what
does it look like to have a conversation around sexuality

(53:26):
with someone else. But the reality is when we again
we were layers, right, we're peeling back those lasers. So
much self judgment that we have. We can't have those
conversations with ourselves that alone someone else. So we have
to address the judgment. We need to address the judgment
where we have about all areas of our lives, including
our sexual expression, including our self perception of our self image.

(53:51):
Do I like my hands? Do I like my genitals?
Do I like my feet? Do I like the way
my body looks, like the way my body moves like?
There are so many questions that we avoid, or rather
the truth that we avoid about ourselves, that we can't
possibly have these conversations with us. That's why they don't
really exist. That's that's the that's the truth of it.

(54:11):
That's why these conversations don't exist in our reality because
they're too difficult to have because of the judgment that's
layered within everything we do when it comes to a
sexualitly so now it becomes let me operate from old
wounding cool. So an example of that is I want
to make sure you like me, so I'm going to

(54:33):
do the thing that I think you want me to
do so that you will like me. So in a
sexual sense, that is, I'm going to be the sexual pleaser.
I'm going to make sure that you're fully pleased, and
you know, you have an orgasm and you're in pleasure,
and I'm going to sacrifice my pleasure like I wonder
how long that can last for right, I wonder how
real that is? And I have I can't tell you

(54:57):
how many women will come to me and say, I
just want my man to orgasm or ejaculate. I just
want I just want my man to quote unquote finish.
I just want him to feel good as well. Because
sometimes men will practice seaman retention or there's a bit
of an epidemic in our society with men and impotency
and inability because of the numbing through pornography. And that's

(55:18):
another rabbit hole. But all of that and and so,
and you know what that does to the male psyche,
to or to mainstream pornography. I'm referring to to to
all psyches. But again that that goal orientated approach pleasure
can only exist when we have a completion that's a masculine,
energetic nothing wrong with it. But when that becomes the

(55:40):
focus constantly all the time, and presence isn't present, we
feel disconnected, we feel unsatisfied, we don't feel sexually connected,
and so we crave for more and we and this
is what we do, This is what I've done. We
look for it in all the wrong places in the
place says that give us a quick fix because it's

(56:02):
a heightened peak experience. Right for me, it was I
would be visiting prostitutes or the massage parlors with central
and sexual massage there as well, because it was a
peak experience. It would satisfy me temporarily. It would feel
this emotional void that I didn't know I was feeling.
It would feel this physical void until the next time,

(56:22):
which wasn't that far after, and I needed more of it,
and it became a compulsion and an addiction, and I
kept feeling more empty and more shame and more guilt.
And the way I would alleviate that is with more pleasure.
And I would do that with the ways that I
knew how, which was adrenaline and food and sex and
all the things that we always use. It's a dopamine,
are dopamine. All of a sudden, it gets changed, our

(56:45):
level of dopamine, our line gets heightened, and then it's
more and more and more, and we'd never we're never
satisfied well dopamines and anticipatory hormone and so we're constantly
in the anticipation. You know, you notice when you you're
thinking about it, maybe going on a trip or something
even Um, you know when you're single, you know, you
think about dating this guy and all that's exciting, and

(57:05):
then you sort of the thing happens, like you go
on the trip or you go on the diet, and
it could be okay, but it's nowhere near as good
as the anticipation because that's the motivated that's what gets
us there, right. Um, But we get addicted to those
cycles as well. Yeah, absolutely, I mean so interesting. There's
so many ways I could go with us, I mean
and in a long term relationship. Then when you when

(57:26):
you say where we can become? I get addicted to
these cycles? How do we and if we're if we're
thinking about for constantly thinking about the finishing because I know,
I mean I grew up I think a lot of
a lot of us grew up that way of that's
the end goal is why we have sex. It's not
The connection isn't the first thing that we're we're thinking about,

(57:48):
although now I know for me it's like that's what
I desire more than anything. And it's like, okay, if
we're if we now know that about ourselves, if we're
desiring more connection out of our sexual experience, how do
we beget end to start connecting in that way? Like
is there a is there something that you would recommend
as like a build up to sex, or like how
do how do we start that that deeper connection so

(58:11):
that it's not just about you know, five minutes of pleasure. Yeah. Yeah,
We've got to make presents the priority presence with each other.
And so if I go back to what I said
a moment a few moments ago around exploring our own
sexual fantasies and own sexual desires within ourselves first and
being very active that that's a great starting point. Then
an intimate long term relationship, we're looking at communication or

(58:37):
creating safe spaces for each other. Firstly communication, So say
spaces again, just to clarify, is an environment in a
space of non judgment? Can you actively choose to not
judge your partners? If your partner says to you, hey,
I really love you and I actually really enjoy having
sex with you, and you know, we've been together twenty
years and I feel like I'd like to be with

(58:58):
someone else. How do you feel about that? Can we
not necessarily take that personally? Can we pause? And can
we not be judgmental? And we don't have to say
we don't have to say yes to that just because
our partner says it. But can we put this is
the work? But can we pause and can we feel
into what's happening for us and what's happening for them?
I use that as an example. It's not an extreme example.

(59:19):
It's a bigger example. But I promise you if there
was less judgment in our society, how often would that
conversation take place? I would say more often than it
isn't now right, but we can we can settle that.
Let me yeah, So so there's there's there's a communication piece.
Now we can use tools such as imago dialogue and
non violent communication, a very simple, powerful tools for communicating

(59:43):
and practicing that. The Gottman Institute is an amazing resource
for longer term relationships UM and we can use these
tools to start communicating with each other right, and then
we have to allocate the time. We have to make
the space for each other. That can be date nights,
that can be at the end of every day, sitting
with each other and sharing what transpired in the day

(01:00:04):
for you, What were some of your prominent thoughts? What
were something that happened that maybe you weren't too happy about?
Can you share that with me? What does that look
like for you? How can I support you to My
wife and I have every month, I mean, we we
connect on a daily base. We were very blessed. We
both work from home, so we spend time with each other,
of course, but every month we sit with each other

(01:00:25):
and we we give an overview of what the month
was like. We have a series of questions that we
ask each other and connected and connective practices as well
that help us connect to ourselves physically, emotionally and intellectually.
And we do that check in every month, and then
we have weekly check ins as well. But we make
the time and the space for otherwise, Honestly, it won't
get done. Like I am a human being, I'm a
man on a mission in this life. And I've known

(01:00:45):
that since I was a little kid. I was six
seven years old. I wanted to be a United Nations
Secretary General. And again, yeah, it's awesome. And it came
from pain, my own pain. Like I thought, I would
watch National Geographic and I would watch TV with my
grand parents, and you know, TV for me was actually
just a side note, was a really big um. It

(01:01:07):
was a savior watching movies and it was going to escape,
you know, to escape from my reality. And it was
really beautiful for me. And I love that. UM. And
I'm a movie buff today because of that. I'm going
to be careful it doesn't become an addiction to like
I can. I'm out on it. But you know, it's
it's making that time with each other. Um. And And
like I said, I'm a man on a big mission

(01:01:29):
in this life. And so if I don't make the
time to be with my my wife and my family, UM,
it won't happen because my time gets filled up very
very quickly with other things that are not equally as
important but deeply important to me as well. So we
have to make the time so safe spaces, non judgmental,
safe spaces. I want to really simplify for the audience,

(01:01:49):
right could practice effective communication, make that a priority, and
create space to be with each other before you're going
to even It's like before we can even run, we
have to learn how to balance on our bellies. Rather,
there are so many stages and steps that need to
happen before we get to that end thing. And if
the end thing here is being opened in our communication
around sexuality, we've got to learn how to communicate effectively,

(01:02:11):
be non judgmental with each other, and be in a routine,
in a habit, an established habit of spending intimate time
with each other. Then the more risk a conversations around
sexuality can take place, because we can't just go from oh,
we've been together for ten years and three kids, and
you know we work twelve hours a day each and

(01:02:31):
maybe we get a little time on the weekend together
and now we're going to have a conversation around our
sexuality and our sexual fantasies. And does that happened the way? Yeah? No,
I mean I have Look, I have a whole routine
of taking care of myself, and I schedule everything into
my life, and I schedule my work, and um, I
remember one day when I realized, like I have to
schedule Eddie and I have to schedule in time for

(01:02:53):
one another, Like this just has to happen, and it
might not sound sexy at all, but if it's there,
I'm like, oh, that's something. Number one I look forward
to it, and number two like, it's it's there. Else
we will get sidetracked on a gazillion other things. And
I think that is super key because you you have
to have to create that. Um. Yeah, No, I still

(01:03:15):
look forward to reading your book on all of this
because it's it's definitely you know something that I know,
my own ideas of sexuality and and sex and what
I want from my life and how I want to
connect is shifting. There's such an old view and I think,
I know I'm not the only one. I think it's
shifting in our our society throughout the world and how

(01:03:36):
we view that connection. I one thing I know you
talk about a lot is sacred connection. I just would
love for you to to maybe define that a little bit.
What is that? And that is something stuff is going
to answer right after this brief break, Welcome back, my friends, staff.

(01:04:03):
It was just about to break down his definition of
a sacred romantic connection. Let me actually just I'm going
to just instruitively follow that thread for a moment with
respect of sacred connection and so because there are many
different ways that I can elaborate on it, and I'm
sure others would as well. Um, but let me speak
to grief. You know, this is Grief is so sacred, man,

(01:04:28):
It's so it's so important that we when we talk
about the father wound, we need to grieve the father
we never had, need to grieve the safety we never experienced.
We can't experience open, vulnerable sacredness in connection without releasing
our grief. That takes up so much psychic and emotional

(01:04:50):
and spiritual and sexual space in our being. Like we
have to grieve to be able to have open intimate
communion with others. Grief for me is and I'll go
deep into grief into into this book as well, because
it's such an important part of psycrid sexuality and psycrid intimacy.

(01:05:11):
M Yeah, okay, So I'll go down this path with
you for a moment, because grief is really interesting. I
actually this morning, before we got on here, I could
feel so much sadness and grief in my body. I
went upstairs and I started to move and make sound
and just like bawl my eyes out. And it's so
interesting because there's grief has come up a lot of
times with me during sex. I will start crying and

(01:05:33):
expressing that and then and I've had to explain it
to my husband sometimes of like this is there's such
a um, it's so vulnerable. It's such a vulnerable time.
I was actually just talking about how being on stage
is like having sex for me sometimes because I'm so
open that it becomes this whole experience and with that

(01:05:56):
can come this deeply embedded grief that I have yet
touched upon. And I agree with you. I think that's
such a beautiful piece um that can come out when
we are that vulnerable, and sex is one of those
places where when you are that open um, that grief
can can show itself. And I'm I just love that

(01:06:19):
you brought that up because I've literally been in it
all morning in a beautiful way of like, okay, so
this is here, I'm going to allow it to come up.
But that's a conversation I've actually had to have with
Eddie through my experience with him, because it's it does
show itself often and there is a lot of grief
around what I and I'm sure a lot of people
did not experience in childhood. Yeah, So firstly, thank you

(01:06:44):
for sharing that. That's that's really deep, and you're not
alone in that. Me and my wife and I have
experienced that. I've experienced that in previous relationships. We have
experienced that in previous relationships. I mean we meaning me
and my previous partnersan my wife and I as well.
And I want to speak to that's a really important thing.
And this is I want to commend both you and
Eddie because for you to be able to actually for

(01:07:06):
your body to be able to have that release in
such a vulnerable state of expression, it means that your
nervous system feels safe enough in his presence to have
that release. I get that sometimes you have to explain
certain things because it can be very confronting for all
parties involved. But the fact that you can do that,

(01:07:26):
that your body will naturally allow itself to go there,
not repress that and hold back, that is a testament
to the dynamic of your relationship as well. There's a
depth there that you've reached, whether you intellectually or you
know cognitively understand and know that, and I'm hope, hopefully
what i'm I'm my intention here is to bring more
light to that, because if you can recognize that I

(01:07:47):
see life as a video game, you won't be able
to progress to the next level unless the algorithm of
the video game has recognized that you've done all the things,
that you've killed the big bad person, and you've accumulated
all the web and you've done all the things to
progress to the next level. If you acknowledge that you
actually have reached a depth that was unknown previously to you,

(01:08:10):
it opens up the door for more depth, which can
equally be as scary but also equally as beautiful and exciting.
And so I just really commend you for a being honest,
be having that relationship where you can share in that
way with your your partner. That's very aspirational and inspirational
for many and it's very possible for all of us.

(01:08:33):
I want to be super clear on that. It's not
like this this oh you have to be elite to
reach that point. No, you just need to do your
inner work and be willing to get uncomfortable and be
willing to be real with yourself as a starting point.
And what that opens up in your life. Is tremendous. Yeah,
it is. I love that you just went there. I
totally didn't expect that at all, um, But I think

(01:08:55):
for me, I mean, there's there there in lays the sacred.
You know that that is the where all is welcome,
you know, And I think that is I think for me,
I know with my relationship with my husband, Um, it's
the first space where I've felt that all of me
is welcome and he sees he sees things or has

(01:09:17):
seen things in the past and known things about me
that I have been unwilling to look at. I didn't
know about myself, and I would express something to him
and he's like, well, yeah, of course, like he's seen
it all along. But it's just like a new epiphany
to me. So um yeah, I think that that is
such a key piece. And I I, like I said,
I look forward to reading your book. I would love

(01:09:37):
to have you back on to discuss all things book
when you're when you are when it comes out. Yeah,
because there's so many more places I could go with you. Um.
I constantly asked my um my guest about music, of course,
because it's my it's my deep love and passion, and
I um, I would love to know what your holy

(01:09:58):
five are. These can be I have songs from your
whole life that you love, or like five songs you're
really into right now, and just share away. Okay, Whenever
anyone asked me about give me a top three or
top one or top five, top five, I'm going to
give you seven or something. Anyway, I went to my
best to just be five, and I'm going to caveat

(01:10:19):
and say, here's a few bonuses. Okay, So here's the thing.
Here's the thing. I love orchestral music, and I love movies.
As I mentioned earlier, it's very dear to me for
so many reasons. Right, it was a savior at some level.
And so there's certain music associated with certain motion pictures

(01:10:44):
that touch me, touch the spectrum of my humanity in
such deep ways that I can't even I can't verbalize.
I just can't. And so I want, I want to
share some of that with you, right And I'm sure
you'll be familiar with most, if not all of them,
at least most of them. So, in no particular order,
have you seen the movie Cloud Atlas? No, I have not.

(01:11:07):
Halle Berry, Tom Hanks, the end title from Tom tick
War or tyke War Tom Tykwer. He's a combining as
a composer. It's about seven and a half minutes. It
is stunning. Oh wow, I have to go watch. It

(01:11:35):
just brings up something in me that is I just
can't explain it. And without the words, my imagination just
goes even more wild. Yeah. I was just talking about
this the other day with someone about how art we're
constantly projecting upon our like our own our own imagination.
And someone asked me about my new album like thinking
because it was called God's Work, that it was this
Christian record, and I go, sure it is, if that's

(01:11:58):
what you want it to be. Or it is so
subjective in that way, and we're always projecting, which I
love and yes, and when there are no words and
it's just full on triggering your own emotional experience, it's
so cool. I love that. Yeah, Um, have you seen
it's an older one by Centennial Man. Yes, it's been
a while though, it's been a while. Robin Williams. Yeah, yeah,

(01:12:22):
the Gift of Mortality, that's the song. And I look
at the movie and I look what it's about, and

(01:12:44):
it's about it's asking the question what does it mean
to be human? And it's man's journey. Who's a robot
who develops consciousness or taps into consciousness and then goes
on this journey to be humans so that he can
be with the love of his life and he wants
to be recognized, validation by the world counsel that he's

(01:13:05):
human even though he wasn't quite unquite born or created
as it's a beautiful story. Yeah, I remember that now.
It is beautiful because you know you're a musician, and
you I don't have to assume. I know you have
an amazing ear, and you would sense layers of music
and sound far different and deeper than I. I would

(01:13:25):
love you know, if you just put a set of
you know, noise canceling headphones on and and sat in
some darkness and just listen to me. We aren't even
watching the movies. I'm wondering what would come up for you. Oh,
I'm sure so much. I mean music for me, Like
that's why I if I want to go cry, I
just know I need to go put on a something
that something that has a certain tone or feeling to

(01:13:47):
it that it's just instant. So I totally um have
you seen Dragon Heart? Nope, I haven't. Sean older one
again Sean Connery. Um, think it's in the nineties. Sean
Connery plays a dragon and the song is to the
Stars Randy Elderman and it's man, I'm just talking about this.

(01:14:09):
I can feel tears coming because this. I was very
close with my grandparents, particularly very close with my grandfather,
my maternal but my maternal grandfather, and we would watch
movies together a lot, and this is one of the
ones that we watched. And this dragon gives up his

(01:14:33):
life for a human that he develops a friendship with
that was trying to kill him. And the story is simple,
but there's so much depth and layers to it, and
he begins to represent the epitome of what is what
what humanity could be. Yet he's an animal, he's a
quote unquote beast right. It's a beautiful story. I love it. Yeah,

(01:15:04):
he just made me so set Um. Are you familiar
with Paul Cardell. I'm not it. I love it. You're
introducing me to all those new people in movies. Yeah, yeah,
well this is actually this one isn't from the movie,
but m Paul Cardell is an amazing amazing musician. I
mean he doesn't sing m he just composes music. And

(01:15:28):
there's two songs there if group one's Gracie's theme a
New Life, and both are extraordinary. Just ex short car

(01:15:55):
Um and I've got I've Got a couple more. I
think that's more than fun. But if you don't mind,
um Riddles of Steel Riders of Doom by Basil Polydus.
That's a great title. Yeah. Yeah, well this one's from

(01:16:16):
Coda and the Barbarian. Okay, yeah, so this is how
old movie. This is about warrior essence, warrior king essence,
very powerful, very powerful. Then there's the I'm sure you've
seen Forrest Gump. Oh yes, yes, yes, the music, just
the themes. Yeah, yeah, that brings in the best of ways. Yes,

(01:16:54):
that movie. That's probably one of my favorite movies, like
top five of all times. It's brilliant. And there are
so many other movies that Awkward Hands Zimmer is just
hands down phenomenal. I mean there's no yeah, that's right,
you know, the the um Last Samurai Inception. I mean,

(01:17:15):
there's so many other motion pictures that have really moved
me philosophically and emotionally. Um and Hand Zimm has been
a part of it. I mean hand Zimmer is brilliant.
He really, he really. I love this. You took me

(01:17:38):
down a whole another path of like orchestral and moved
you from that space. Um. It's interesting. I've been I
was mentioning earlier that I went upstairs and just made sound. Um,
you know for someone who's been singing my whole life,
like actually like voicing sound is new to me, and
I've been I'll sit with myself and sing, I'll start

(01:18:01):
making melodies without words and just noises, and it's been
so freeing because I feel like sometimes words like I
feel like they complicate things and they also kind of
cut things off. They can box things into where you
like sometimes I feel like I have expression, but the
words that can't hold it. And I love that when

(01:18:25):
you when you think of orchestral music and like you said,
the way that you can project your own imagery and
emotion upon what's there, it's so beautiful. So thank you
so much for sharing that, because I can totally understand
where you're coming from. You use a musician, really get this.
It's so crucial breath, sound and movement, right you mentioned

(01:18:47):
you know you went upstairs earlier, and you moved and
you sounded, and there's sometimes it's deliberate breathing, but there's
obviously definitely breathing unintentional, but it's in there either way.
But deliberate breath, sound and movement is the is the
foundation the practice of semantic healing. And we don't need
to understand what's happening. But if you give yourself that,
that's the release, that's the healing. We don't. We're so

(01:19:09):
cognitive that we try to understand everything and we think
that we will heal when we understand. Understanding is important,
but it's often an after effect. It has to be
in the body first. So you going and sounding and
breathing and moving. From my perspective, you're doing the thing.
You're you're healing yourself at deep levels. Thank you. That's

(01:19:29):
a new thing for me because i've you know, like
everybody like you're saying, I think that if I understand it,
then I can you know, I can, I can work
it out, and it's like, no, I know. It's so
easy for me to go into story and the new
thing for me is like, okay, no, story, what does
this feel like? How can I express it and so yeah,
thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you so much.

(01:19:53):
Congratulations on your new family, your new baby. Yes, and
congrats on your new book. I look forward to reading it,
and I just really appreciate you joining us today. Thank
you so much. That's awesome, Thank you so much. Thank you,
And that, my friends, ends this marathon links Holy Human episode.

(01:20:14):
I could have talked to him all day long, and
I look forward to reconnecting with Stephanos in the future.
So please leave any suggestions or thoughts you'd like to
share wherever you're listening now, and share with anyone in
your life you think would benefit from this episode. We
truly do love hearing from you, and on our next

(01:20:34):
Holy Human, you'll join me for an illuminating discussion with
best selling author Gabby Bernstein, a self described spirit junkie
and an undeniably authentic, inspirational human being. I really took
so much away from our conversation. It was incredibly vulnerable.
So I hope, I mean, what's not on this podcast,
So I hope you will join us for another vulnerable

(01:20:57):
conversation here on Holy Human. So until next time, please
take care of yourself, take care of one another, and
I look forward to seeing you soon. I love you.
Holy Human with Me Leanne Rhymes is a production of
I Heart Radio. You'll find Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes

(01:21:17):
on the I Heart app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get the podcasts that matter most to you.