December 29, 2025 • 52 mins
Today, Ashlyn is joined by producer, TV personality, and celebrity stylist Mal Wright to discuss the complexities of identity, the power of community, and the importance of self-compassion. In this candid conversation, they explore the challenges and triumphs of navigating life in the public eye, the impact of appearing on Queer Ultimatum, and the beauty of allowing oneself to evolve. Tune in for an episode filled with warmth, wisdom, and a reminder to be gentle with ourselves and others.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, It's Ashlyn Harris and welcome to Wide Open.
So this Christmas and holiday season, I'm really looking forward
to having my children for like a white Christmas upstate.
My mom is coming in town, Sophia's mom's coming, our
(00:23):
friend Jack Garrett is coming, and it just feels really
special to have special people to celebrate the holidays and
a new year. So I got the kids a bunch
of tubes and adult sized tubes, and I think we're
just going to have a blast in the snow and
really spend quality time together and eat a bunch of
(00:46):
good food to feel like just fill our souls with
laughter and all the things that we need charging into
this new year of twenty twenty six. For New Year's
we're coming back to the city, so it'll be interesting
to figure out what we want to do as a family.
Like clearly the kids won't stay up, but I'm not
(01:08):
one for big crowds. I gotta be honest. I don't
like going to bed late. It's like, I know I
have to get up at six am with my babies,
and I look forward to it. So what we're going
to do is I bought a ton of black lights,
like back in the day, my room was full of
black lights, so I bought glasses and glowsticks and face paint.
(01:33):
We are going to have the most epic fucking rave
these kids have ever been a part of. We have
glow in the dark clothes, so I just have like
a ton of rave glowsticks and black lights. So I
don't even know if the if these kids know what
they're about to get their self into. But now that
(01:53):
they know it's coming, every day they're like, we don't
want to go to school, mom, we want to party
when we get home. Are we gonna do the party?
So they're now calling the Rave the party? So who
knows what they're telling their kids their classmates at school
right now. I love being a mom and I love
including them and everything, and I think those are the
(02:15):
moments they'll really remember the most, not the presence, you know,
but really the experience of just doing really fun things
like that. So I look forward to holidays to have
that time with them. I am, you know, as everyone knows,
I'm I'm you know, I'm a professional athlete. I don't
I'm never gonna say retired because I don't think it
(02:35):
ever leaves you. I'm about discipline. I'm about creating habits.
So for me, you know, some people are like I'm
gonna work out more or I'm gonna do this, and
then they go really hard for like one month and
then they're fucking over it and they're that they quit.
Like I'm just I keep my shit consistent. I think
(02:58):
that's what people don't understand. And it's like, why do
we make these goals for the new year, Like this
should be a habit of how we show up every
fucking day, like and if you can put that and
instill that in your brain, it's like, it doesn't have
to be a hard work out every day. Just get
some movement in and if you don't fuck with that,
(03:19):
just stretch, do some mindful like meditation or breathing anything
that like you want to do. I don't think you
have to do it in extremes, like if you want
to read a book or you want to just like
chip it little by little and create habits and be
disciplined about it, and I think you'll live a better life.
(03:40):
I don't eat shit food, so I don't, like, I
don't know what I would change, Like I grab life
by the fucking balls and I don't wait for New
Years to make changes. Like if I don't like something,
or I'm not happy with something or the way my
body feels or the way I'm showing up, I do
the fucking work to it when people aren't watching. I
(04:01):
don't have to write it on Instagram to be like
New Year's resolution, Like my goals are not for everyone else,
like I'm constantly chasing them. And I wish people had
that mindset instead of, oh wait till twenty twenty six.
I'm like, you don't even know if you'll be here
in twenty twenty six. Change it today. I'm blessed. My
(04:23):
kids are healthy, my partner's healthy, my family's healthy, and
like that to me is success. That is what I
hope for. I wish for because money can't fucking buy it.
So that's my wish for twenty twenty six is everyone
continues to stay healthy and here that's all I hope for.
(04:55):
Welcome back to Wide Open today. We have a very
special guest mouth right Is on the show. You might
know Mao from season one of The Queer Ultimatum, but
that's just one chapter of a much bigger story. Before
the cameras, Mao was shaping culture behind the scenes, styling
at Barney's, building a reputation in streetwear, and moving through
(05:17):
creative spaces with intention and a quiet confidence about them.
Mal isn't someone who chased the spotlight. The spotlight actually
found her, and with that came a lot of opinions, projections,
and expectations about who she is, how she lives, and
what her life should look like. This is one of
(05:39):
those conversations that really stays with you. Mao's honesty about love, privacy,
and identity is an important reminder that growth doesn't always
look loud. Sometimes it looks like pulling inward, setting boundaries
and reflecting what you actually want, not what people expect
(06:00):
from you. All right, everyone, and welcome back to another
episode of Wide Open. I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris, and
today we have the very wonderful mal Right. Welcome to
this show.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
What's up? I'm good man, How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I'm good. Life is busy, life is crazy. I'm trying
to keep two children alife, alive and make my beautiful
partner happy as much as I can. So it's a
full time job.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Same same I'm trying to keep my one fur pet alive.
So there's that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Oh we have a fur pet, not.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Quite a child.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But yes, I'll tell you what, it's a good stepping stone.
It's all the same same at least, like they don't
talk talk back though, That's what I will say. That's
the one thing I miss about having a little pet
is just the cuddles and no understanding of time whatsoever
(06:58):
and always happy to see me and then doesn't talk
shit and isn't a mini terrorist.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, I'm the step parent in this situation, so I
kind of feel like when she doesn't listen to me,
I'm like, are you talking back to me? And I'm
just like trying to be on your team here. I
don't right want to be for you.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I love it tell everyone what's going on in your world.
I mean, most people clearly know you if you are
like a warm, gentle hug that people if they don't
know you. I feel really bad because every time I
see you, or every time I see you on social
you have such a warmth about you that is so infectious.
(07:43):
You are literally a gentle hug all the time, and
I adore you, and I'm curious, like what is going
on in Mal's world. We're done with the Queer ultimatum,
which is so sad, like sad.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I know, I know, Oh, we're done with it. It's
good for I'm happy about it personally, you know, okay
for viewers, though, I am sad that that we're done
with it, like that Netflix has done with it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
They're done. Like what it was? It was so good, I.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Know, and it was like one of the most viewed
in that enterprise, So you know, take that up with Uh.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well you definitely well clearly you were in season one,
but you helped cast which is so cool for season two. Yeah,
and did they give you any scoop about like why
they chose not to continue moving forward?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
No, no scoop. I have my hunches, I have my
idea you know what I think could be, but they
didn't confirm it. And I think I personally think it
has something to do with, you know, the current administration.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I don't know, and that hasn't been confirmed. Then
I hope not. I hope it's for a different reason.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. It's unfortunate too, because I feel like everyone's treading
lightly and then like Hunting Wives comes out and blows
everything on It's fucking right. I'm like, so what is it?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I mean people are starving for this kind of like
content and then we're removing it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I know.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Glad came out with this study saying like, I don't
know exactly the number, but like over fifty to sixty
seven percent of queer shows are gone, like people aren't
even fucking with it, like done because of probably this
new administration, which is like really sad because we made
so many strides for like representation and everything we do.
(09:48):
As I imagine, you know, I actually I'm not gonna
suggest like what was your reasoning and thoughts being like, yeah,
let's do this. I'm gonna go on this show and
as someone who's what I consider is quite quiet and
so like sacred of their personal space, like what made you.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Be like yep, this is for me I the first Okay,
so the enterprise didn't exist yet, it just wasn't around,
so there was no reference, you know, for what we
were getting into at the time. It was also post
I'm going to say post pandemic, although you know, you know,
there's it's still one, but it was like right after
(10:29):
when people kind of wanted to be outside or go
do other things and could be And I honestly didn't
think it was going to turn into what it was
going to turn into. I had no and I make
pretty calculated decisions, but I had no clue that it
was going to become what it was going to become.
(10:50):
Had I known that, I don't think I would have
done it. I likely know that I wouldn't have. Yeah,
I just thought, oh, this is kind of a calculated risk,
Like I really didn't care to do it to begin with.
And you know, we talked about it at the time
and kind of talked it through several times and had
several meetings, and finally at the end, I'm like, well,
(11:10):
I guess, I mean, worst case scenario, we do have
the tools to navigate it. So because we were like
therapy heavy, like once a week couple's therapy for a year.
So I'm like, well, I guess we have the language
if should something crazy come up. Yeah, you know, And
I was like, I guess, Like, I guess, let's try it.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I tried to weigh it as best as I could.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah. No, Yeah, did you feel like there's a part
of you that gained so much, you know, creatively, the
evolution of what love and self care look like. You know,
your job, your work as a stylist, creative consultant, everything
you do. Do you think it helped propel like this
(11:57):
new mal who you are now after the show or
actually did it hinder it? Because I think people don't
understand the levity of being on a show for the
first time and what type of attention trust me, both
positive and fucking negative and everything else in between of
just being open and honest. And I'm curious, Yeah, if
(12:19):
that helped progress your life in beautiful ways or has
it been crippling and a lot of others.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I think maybe both. I think it's hard to say
that it It's hard to have full scope and speak
with any bit of like conviction really because like my
life's not done yet, right, so I don't I actually
am not sure if it impacted me negatively, and I'm
not and I don't tend to think that way anyway.
(12:52):
Like my philosophy is just not that there are things
that have been really hard about it, and I think
it did rather than propelling anything, I think it did amplify,
you know, Like I think any bit of any bit
of visibility or public visibility or fame or whatever we
(13:12):
want to call it. I think, depending on what it is,
can definitely amplify who you already are mm hmm. And
that's allowed to change as it needs to. But I
definitely think it's just shine more of a light on
kind of who I am. And that is hard that
(13:33):
there are some things that are really wonderful about it
and I feel really great about and there are some
things where I'm like, Damn, I didn't I didn't want
to put like a microphone up to vulnerability. I didn't
want to do that.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, you know it's scary. It's absolutely scary. And
it's also the things you're doing and living publicly, like
hold you accountable in a lot of ways because people
don't understand that, like love is ever changing and the
evolution of a human is constantly evolving. So people if
you say one thing, it's like you can't be a
(14:07):
different way, you can't see love in a different light.
Like people are so fixated on like that exact moment.
And I imagine you're a totally different mouth than you
were during that show. I mean, you're radiating life and love.
I don't know what your skincare routine is, but it's
it's it's skinny, it's working, but you're happy like you're happy,
(14:31):
like your your life is full of so much like
genuine care and you're receiving it the way I imagine
you always have. Because the way you talk about your
partner and how you both show up for each other
has been really beautiful to watch. And I want to
know the mau on that show being you know, and
(14:53):
I'm not going to do the whole compare partner thing,
but I want to know, has your idea of love
in partnership and showing up changed since you've been on
that show? Now you are, you know, in a healthy
relationship that you're absolutely obsessed with your partner, which is
so cute.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
But has that idea and identity like completely shifted.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Absolutely And I think it would be it'd be a
disservice to it would be a disservice to the rest
of my life and the things that have transpired since
the show. It'd be a disservice to not speak about
those things too, right, because I think the show was
a small fraction of like so much life that was
happening beyond that. You know, we had just we had
(15:41):
just gotten out of came out of COVID, and I think,
I think COVID relationships are a very specific type of experience.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Oh funny you and now you are not kidding with that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Right, And and we didn't we didn't have the tools.
You know, life just keeps going, and it's and it's relentless,
it just goes. It doesn't for a second to like assess,
what did we just fucking go through trying to manage
a relationship mid COVID, mid pandemic. Not to mention, we
lived in a city where the civil unrest around George
Floyd and all this was huge. We lived in Seattle,
(16:16):
and Seattle was, according to the news, was going crazy.
All everywhere was the Seattle specifically was the one city
that had this like acquiesced you know, the people had
acquiesced the zone or whatever, and it was just like
this autonomou zone. We had no cops, we had nothing,
and it looked like it was lawless according to the news. Meanwhile,
while we were there, you saw people actually like educating
(16:39):
each other on the street, and you saw like kind
of what seemed like a utopia or like what you'd
hope humans would do given everything. So that was happening. Yeah,
while trying to manage what was an extremely unhealthy relationship
or you know whatever it was. So we thought, oh,
like we got to take care of each other. The
(16:59):
world is ending as we know it, when really I
think at that time we probably should have. We should
have broken up long before that, but we didn't. So
there's that. Then we do the show, Then we come
out of the show and life is continuing, and the
show doesn't air for another year post breakup, and you know,
(17:22):
I had moved across the country in that time. Right
after that, my dad passed. Like there was just so
much life happening.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, it's heavy, and I think that's the part that
people don't understand. But like what people don't know, they
don't know. Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment.
After this brief message from our sponsors. I imagine you
(17:54):
watching back the show and the experiences that were going
on and things that were coming out of COVID, and
life is lifeing and experiences are experiencing, Like what is
it that people really got wrong? Because this is what
I always wonder and I've never been on a reality show,
but I imagine when you go in there, you forego
(18:17):
the concept of control, Like people can flip it and
reverse it all they want. They producers who are very
good at their job, will get out of you what
they want. Nit clip slip, make you look like a
totally This is about entertainment, right, So I'm curious if
(18:37):
you felt that way or was it a true like
you really felt like they understood who mal was. And
if there's anything that you feel like the audience got
really wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
That's such an interesting question. I think that I got
a good edit, right, I think that I didn't. I
think also I didn't have to do much comparatively speaking.
My situation was very very particular, right, So I didn't
(19:16):
have to do much, And I think that maybe it
kind of robbed me of humanity. I think I think
I now, looking back, I'm like me looking back at myself.
Then I want to protect myself, and I want to
tell myself, like stand up for yourself, like say say more.
(19:37):
You know. So, I don't know if the audience got
anything wrong. It was just it was just a place
in time. I think what the audience gets wrong a
lot of times is holding people to who they saw forever. Yes,
you know, and whether that's obviously I mean that's part
(19:57):
of that's part of production, and that's part of storytelling.
And also I think audience oftentimes we don't digest the
stuff with a critical eye, and we don't allow for
humanity to be like ever expanding and a person's personhood
we keep them to that forever. I think, particularly queer community.
(20:18):
And I don't know, I don't know what's going on
in straight people business, but quickly typically has an interesting
relationship with punity too, Like when we watch we observe
a person do something and have a human moment, whether
we agree with it or not, we think they should
be punished forever mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And the hard Yeah, we don't really have to give
zero grace to people nowadays. And not only that, like
I feel you when you say that, Like we I
say this often we don't stand on the shoulders of
other people to allow them like I don't have to
agree with everyone. I'm here to respect right, Like I'll
(21:01):
give people grace, and I also want people to have
a open heart that they can change, because I think
fear lies in the unknown. I think a lot of
you know, especially our queer community, a lot of the hatred.
You know, when I have conversations, it's just people have
(21:23):
never met someone like me, so until they understand it,
they fear it. And I think the only way to
get and cut through it is to really give grace
and like have those hard conversations and sometimes like with
family members and this, and it's like we have to
do it over and over and over and we have
(21:45):
to be willing to do that. And I think right now,
especially in the queer community, we're just like you either
fuck with me or you don't, Like we just have
had it. Like we're at the point where we're like
I'm done explaining. I'm done, Like I don't want to
explain my queerness anymore. Like it's just the grace has
(22:06):
has It's disappeared in a lot of ways. And I
do think people change, but we have to allow them
to have the space to do so without chomping them
at their next constantly. Yeah so that you know I'm
are curious too, Yes, yes, yeah, I'm scared to death.
I'll be honest. You know, my kids are three and four,
(22:30):
but you know they're being raised in this time of
social media, and if they fly off the handle and
write something, it doesn't just affect them, it's going to
affect the way the ability to go to school and
have friends in college and work. In my life. It's
like they don't get mistakes, they don't get the space
to grow, they don't get the space to be kids anymore.
(22:53):
And that's that's fucking heavy. Yeah, because there's a lot
of shit that I've done in my past that not
necessarily proud of, but it was like an important growth
process for me to understand, like, Okay, who am I
and what is my character? And who do I want
to be? But I had to go through some shit
(23:14):
to get there. But thank god it wasn't plastered all
over social media. I mean, it's just it's you can't
escape it. You can't. It's like this vicious fucking cycle
over and over and over, and it's like the grace
is gone, that shit's gone. Empathy, care, warmth, which is
(23:37):
interesting because that's like, I feel like something we both
have like a lot in common. We look a certain
way and people get certain ideas, but I'm about as
fucking mushy and soft as you can get. See, it's
a it's a sweet, interesting dynamic when you judge a
book by its cover. Let's let's just say that. So,
(24:00):
what what have you? What's what's new for you right now?
I know you just you just moved out of the city,
and you know you're originally from Brooklyn where you originally
from California?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No, really from the West Coast. Yeah, from Anaheim.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Damn, I didn't know that I moved.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I've moved a lot. Yeah. I think that probably adds
to some of the some of the I don't know
if it's some of the mushiness, but some of the friendliness.
I suppose. I grew up in California. We moved a lot.
My dad was a VP of a company, and we
lived in California, and we lived in Arizona and moved
back to California. Then they built a house in Florida,
(24:41):
and I went to high school and college there and
then I left after college, moved to Atlanta and my job,
you know, my little my big girl job. I got there,
and then they moved me to Chicago and then Seattle,
and then that's where I started doing, you know, casting
for the show, and then we did we lived in
(25:01):
San Diego for a second after the show, I moved
to New York, like I have moved around.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, quite a bit. But is that the curious is
that the curiosity piece in you and the constant like
I think you're just you're Some people are not good
at it, but like I just feel like everywhere you are,
you're kind of a light in the room. So it's
not scary to start over to meet new friends or
you know, new community. And I think that's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, I've always had to do it quick, you know,
because I don't know how long it's gonna last. So
and I love community, and I know in my household,
I recall my parents were both immigrants to this country,
and I always recall them being the house where everybody
gathered all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
They were the house that's so cute. I love that.
I like, that's my You know, when you were talking
about how your co parenting a fur baby, I guess
that's interesting. Same part now as a mom, Like it
brings me so much joy to hear someone talk about
their family and their experiences, and like, I want to
(26:11):
create those little moments of traditions. And I was just
thinking about this the other day. It's like why buy
the kids all of these toys just because I can.
I'm going to give the children an opportunity to pick
five experiences and like let's just get it could be
(26:31):
whatever their little heart's desire. I mean, within reason. Let's
let's not get crazy. But it's going to be like arcade,
chuck e cheese, ballet. My daughter's really into being a
ballerina and a princess these days. But yeah, I do.
I value the experience over like just getting the things
because I can. And it's like such a short grab
(26:53):
of happiness instead of really giving my children experience and
like to see the world and to see other people
and understand their privilege and maybe not you know, like
I'm raising, you know, a black and brown child, Like
they've got a lot about life to learn, especially you know,
(27:15):
being adopted by two white moms. Like there's just so
much and I think, you know, I was talking to
my partner the other day and I came from a
family that didn't have much. But I was talking to
my partner and I'm like, what about if we just
go and like pay for kids kids toys, like parents
(27:35):
who are paying and it's hard, but like have our
children do it to give back and understand like how
lucky and blessed they are, but also like teach them
about care and like there are a lot of people
out there who have totally different experiences than we do,
and like it's our job to take care of our community,
(27:58):
and how are we going to serve other people? And
I just think there's just so much meaning And my
wheels are constantly turning being a mom, and I consider
myself a new mom after a few years. But it's
just a really cool process to really do it right.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well I'm trying, honey, I'm trying good. Who Yeah, but like,
who what? How did you grow up?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I want to go back to you talking about your
you know, your thoughts and being a mom, and it's
reminded me of how I grew up, right like you
what you were saying was reminding me of my mom.
My mom was really big on like making sure we
go feed the hungry, or like you know, involving ourselves
in soup kitchens. My family, uh, they still run it
(28:44):
and they still have it, but they run a group
home for mentally challenged men. So these were like my
brothers are like my you know, my family. I grew
up with these men or see or visiting them anyway often.
So service has always been service and community has always
been part of my family's threat, and it's very normal
(29:04):
to me. It's not like it's a very natural thing
to me to want to serve and be a part
of that any way that I can. So, yeah, that
was definitely growing up. My dad came from Cuba. He
he fled Cuba, and him too, he's very community focused
and like you are, you're only as strong as your community.
(29:26):
He's he's very much so ingrained that in us from
like birth, you know. But other than that, I also
played basketball. I grew up playing basketball. Yeah, basketball college.
I was a three. Well do you know you played soccer? Right?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I did? I played I played everything.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah. I see you at the Liberty Games, I know.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah season take a holder, baby, come on.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I saw you managing the kids too, so.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
They you know, it's it's they want to see Ellie.
You know, it's like, don't be all the thing, don't
we all It's why I go to the games too.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, but yeah, that's kind of how I grew up.
My brother also grew up playing basketball. We're twelve years apart.
I was a baby, so I kind of grew up
almost like an only child a little bit.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
You know it was me and my parents were older.
I mean my dad, I mentioned him passing, he was ninety.
He just passed last year. Yeah, I had older parents
and older community around me. That's my part so too.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, you got that wisdom and you're just whyse and
the way you move in the world like it's it's
it's clicking for me.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Now, older people and a lot of loss will do.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It, total think.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
They always say I'm this like gentle and soft because
of what I've had to experience and overcome. I don't
think that I find that very true in every aspect.
I think, you know, but it takes a lot of work. Now,
it takes a lot of work as someone who has
(31:06):
been hurt or has endured so much trauma not to
project that onto other people. And it takes a lot
of work to see through that because hurt people hurt
other people one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I think when you use the language gentle is something
I really resonate with because I think, you know, I
consider myself a gentle being. But it's a practice that's
not like a you don't just arrive there. That is
a constant thing that you're practicing, is remaining a gentle
human and it really really otherwise pretty harsh world.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, you know, yes, it's very very Yeah. How have
you in a world that is quite harsh, especially right
now for our community? How are you creating a safe
space for yourself and you know, like setting boundaries or
whatever it is for you.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The thing I can reflect on most easily is I
just came off of I just did a ten day
vapasha and if I don't know if you know if
this is or not, but it's ten day silent situation.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Silent. Yeah, it's like a spiritual it's like really.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, well, and Vapashna is specifically teaching you how to
sit with pain, you know, yea, yeah, So I just
did that and meditation. I meditate every morning for an
hour and that doing that, having that practice specifically around
(32:43):
vapashna has really kind of helped. And if not for
anything else, it helps me get ultra present and it
helps me kind of just be unmoved. I don't really
react as big to things anymore, not the good order
the bad. I just kind of stay stationary and take
(33:03):
it all as information whatever's happening around me, and respond
to that as best as I can.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, what do you think was your your biggest breakthrough?
And you said you went for how many days?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Ten? Ten days?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Ten? And that's nothing. You have no communication, no phones,
it's like silence.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
No journal, just being with yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeahah, so what do you what would you say was
the biggest breakthrough if you don't mind sharing and getting
you know, wide open about it, Like, what was the
big breakthrough moment for you doing this? It?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I think it unfolds to me like weekly I have
a new download about it. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Had I not done this, I wouldn't have known this.
I think we don't spend nearly enough time with ourselves,
none of us that we need to, not at all,
(34:02):
And I obviously I know, like there are systems in
place that don't really allow for that. Like we're all
on the hamster wheel. Capitalism is a bitch. When we
got a participate, we don't have time, but we need it.
We need it, We need it so badly, so deeply.
We need to sit through discomfort because it informs so much. Yeah,
(34:25):
it's healing, and we have this, we have this way
that we sit in solitude. And I hear people sometimes
I laugh a little bit because people are like, I
love my solitude and all the shit, and I'm like,
solitude under your control is very different than having to
having to sit beyond you being done with silence. Those
(34:46):
are two very different things. Solitude when you're fasting is
very different, you know. And it's not peaceful. Silence isn't
peaceful at all, not beyond you wanting to be in it.
It's quite chaotic. Our brains are quite They're animals, you know,
they're wild animals. And so I don't think I don't
(35:11):
know that we've I don't know that I'm a masterive
piece either, But I don't know that we've really massive
piece until we can sit still amongst chaos for real.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Wow, stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment
after this brief message from our sponsors. Well, I also
think because we're fed so much negativity and we have
(35:42):
access to it so often, people don't understand it penetrates
and it's breaking, and it's it's damaging and short circuiting us,
and our brain is almost seeking it, feeding off I mean,
think about all the shit people nowadays.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, the things that brains we have addictive brains to
the most wild ass shit we can consume, and we're
getting so desensitized by I mean, everything on nowadays that
has the highest numbers are the most fucked up shows,
and people love.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
To consume it. And then we we're curious of why
we're all having mental health episodes and we're having terrible
thoughts and negative self talk. And it is a practice,
like how it's a it's a choice too, of what
we choose to consume and put it down and say
this isn't the best thing for me, and then I
(36:45):
don't have to project or put this this it affects
the way we move in the world and we don't
even fucking know it.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah we don't. If I did take that, That's one
thing I took away from from doing that retreat was
also like I just felt over an overwhelming amount of
compassion for the human condition, like people do. They literally
don't know what they're doing. They don't know, and we're
just consuming and taking it in and we're just so addicted.
(37:17):
We're just such we have such addictive brains and it's
so simple, but it's so like damn.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I agree, And I think we have this society
where we're constantly trying to be someone else that we
do very quickly lose sight of who we are. You
can be yourself and you can be beautifully yourself, and
everyone should. We are are so different. The way we
(37:46):
show up is different, the way we dress is different.
Like people, you know, when I was a player, They're like,
I want to be just like you don't want don't
you don't want to be me? Yeah, I won't you
be better than me? Yeah, I'm doing this so you
can be better than me. Like I think we forget that,
you know, especially at someone like you. Like style, like icon,
(38:09):
the way you show up, the way you move in
the world, like it's infectious. So people want to be
like it and they want to be like it at
all costs. But I'm like, you're losing yourself and your
identity in the process.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, it's like the can be you. Yeah, yes, you
can't skip that. You can't skip the process. But I
think more than anything, when I see that now, I
think my lenses, Like people really just want belonging, They
just want to belong somewhere. Really at any expense, and
they're doing what they think is that thing, you know,
(38:42):
to create, to have belonging wherever that is, you know,
and that that hurts me like that sometimes pains me,
even me. I mean, I think nobody's exempt from doing it.
I think I've also, you know, morph myself a million
times in my life for belonging.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I think absolutely, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I'm at the point where I'm I'm shedding the need
to do that, you know, But I'm not beyond it.
I don't think I'm beyond it. Yeah, I have an
idea of who I think I want to be, you know,
and I'm still getting to know myself. I don't think
that ends.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, just even giving yourself the space to say that
and own it, I think is important for other people
to hear, because, you know, I was laughing with Sophia.
We were on a cruise with my high school friends
and one of my high school friends said something that
really I haven't stopped thinking about, and you just reminded me.
(39:47):
She goes, Wow, celebrities are just like us.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I was like, what do you what does that even
fucking mean? Like, what do you mean by that? And
I didn't want to draw attention to it, but it
just shows that people have these ideas based on what
they see or character that's played or a deal that's endorsed,
(40:12):
whether it's cosmetic or clothes. Like we we fuck up
just like anyone else. We eat, sleep, do the same shit.
Like we are not perfect humans. We're not perfect people.
We don't have the answers to everything. We're like all
just figuring it out on our own too.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, Like it was a really weird reflective moment to
be like, oh, that's like what some people think when
they see entertainment or athletes or this or that. It's like,
is there really a reflected moment?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Right? I do wish consumers, I mean I'm I do
wish consumers would hold on to that, you know, more
often when consuming people in their lives, just like, oh,
they're just like us. I think entertainers are celebrity cultures
as a departure from your own life. And I can
I can understand that. I can understand tuning into some
(41:14):
big figures business because you get to depart from your
own world. Yep, I get that, but then we got
to tune back in like that's they are just a
human they're just a human.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. So let's let's say this,
would you create a new reality show if you were
the creative like lead behind it, would you want to
see another?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
You know?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It doesn't it can be Reality can be unscripted, it
can be scripted, like, what are your thoughts? Would you
want to dabble in it? Or you've you've done it
and you're closing your you're tying that in a pretty
bow and you're like, Okay, I did it. I'm done.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
I'm going to say, given the current landscape of how
people consume media, no, I wouldn't not now say more.
I just don't. I just think that there's a lot
of work to be done in the world around us.
(42:19):
I think we need to tap back in with each
other in community and fixing the world around us. I
do think we need breaks from things, for sure, and
you get to decide what that break looks like for you.
I don't have any rules around that. But I just
don't think consuming other people's life is it. I just
(42:41):
don't think that's it. I just don't think reality TV.
I appreciate it, obviously, I watch it and I have
commentary just like anybody else. But I just don't know
that I would want to add to that echo chamber
that already exists. I don't have anything else to add
to it right now. Yeah, I don't think that even
(43:02):
if I did, I'm unsure that that's what people want
to see, you know, right now, the humans right now,
I don't think. I don't think our brains want to
see that just yet. You know, you're not anything worth consuming.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's so true, and I like this is going to
be And I don't know if you get this, but
I do feel like men, straight white men are the
most intrigued by people like you and I, yes, period,
I say this all the time to Sophia. I get
(43:39):
hit on more straight white dudes then I do. Women
like I don't get chased by queer women for some reason.
There's this weird fact you like, it is so bizarre,
and I'm curious, like, do you agree? Does it happen
to you? What are your thoughts about this?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
I will say I think I feel like my experience
may be as far as getting hit on. I think
when straight white men get drunk, yes, then they say.
In my experience, I have had them say crazy shit
to me or get extremely curious, and I'm like, where
are the fuck is going? I thought we were I
thought we were growing it out and this is weird.
(44:23):
Now you've made it weird. And also I say that,
and I also want to hold that like humans are curious,
you know, and like they just are and they just
have questions. And I think while men can be problematic,
I think that I do have grace for men just
being curious, being people, just being curious about whatever. They
(44:43):
haven't been able to question socially before, so that makes
me sad for them. But straight white men have been
the most. Like usually they've been like were you on
that show? I was just in the barbershop the other
day and this guy and it's like a very hetero barbershop. Yeah,
(45:04):
why dude was just like, hey, can I ask you
a weird question? And I was like, what's up? You know?
And he's like were you on that show?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Like oh my god, and.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
He's like you were awesome. Me and my girlfriend watched
it like it was really cool to watch you. And
that has happened quite a bit, and I think it's
I think it's kind of cool. I think it's funny,
but also also pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Uh, it's very entertaining out and about, Like I, I
do find it really fun and entertaining, especially like I
just my childhood best friend just had a bachelorette party
on a cruise out of Florida. So the amount of
growing going on was like comedy. I learned so much
(45:53):
about life and things I had no business knowing about
being on that cruise with a lot of straight people. Yeah,
I know what I've thought about swingers. I learned a
lot about upside down pineapples. Yes, I'm like a I
know nothing.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
And straight men are kind of like in some of
the situations I've been around or just observed, they get
pretty queer, like get kind of like gay. It gets yeah,
so broe in the spectrum that it goes like yeah,
like if gay is hearing and hetero's here, it goes
very far around and lines right back up and it
(46:36):
gets real.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
It's real, It's really something. There was one gentleman who
was walking around the boat and every day he had
a new upside down pineapple T shirt. And I guess
it was like code for like I'm opening. I'm opened,
I know, and I just I had so many questions
(47:00):
I wanted I would have him on the podcast. Honestly,
I have to find this dude. I think his name
is probably Mike. If I were to get Mike with
the Pineapple shirt, I need him on the podcast because
I need him to tell me everything because the shirts
eye was Yeah, I mean it was so broie in
(47:21):
a really weird way. I just I have thoughts and
I'm giving grace, but I have thoughts, yeah, and I
need to just know more.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
No grace. But that's a question.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So what's next for e mail? Well, what's what's what
are you looking forward to? You know what what's next
for you right now?
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Oh? So many things. I mean, me and my partner
are just moved into a new place. So that's beautiful.
I'm feeling like I want to take the next step.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
That's all I'm going to give you on this pod.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Okay, Yeah, we'll tell you about it line, Yeah, tell
me everything. And and I'm really happy to see you happy.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I'll tell you all the things. I think there's that
there's we're talking about, Like we're talking about kids and stuff,
and we're talking about I mean, our families love us.
It's beautiful. Working on a book, stuff, working on podcast stuff,
so I get to actually just be I have the
privilege at this point of being as creative as I
(48:33):
want to be with a partner that loves it and
supports it. And I'm lucky enough, you know, to have
a platform that really supports me. So that's where I'm
at right now. Maybe I'll go back to corporate. I
don't know, though I was in corpor for a long time,
but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
I know the possibilities are endless. Yeah, would you would
you want to be in fashion? What would you want
to do corporate America?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Probably strategy, I think like brand strategy would probably be
would probably be it. I'm so I'm so involved with
the people and like I'm actually like in the field
with people. Yeah, and I'm really fascinated by how people
think and make decisions. So probably strategy if I were
to that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I'm gonna call you.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
You with me, you're with me? Call me out?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah? You know, well now, thanks thanks so much for
coming on. Uh for everyone out there, like go follow
them out. She's one of the coolest people I know.
And we didn't even get a chance to really talk
about like our identity, but I really feel like I'm
gonna have you on because I do feel like, what
(49:45):
do you want to give the people listening and watching
right now? Hmmm?
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I think for the whole like human community straight wherever you,
however you exist, if you have an identity and you
are living and you're a human, you be gentle. Be
gentle on yourself, be gentle with yourself and the people
around you. And life is really really, really really short,
(50:21):
and it's really fragile, So like you owe it to
yourself to be as gentle as you can and practice
that and give yourself grace and space to be a
thousand different people in this one in this one little
life you have to live, not knowing when it can end.
Give yourself permission to be as many different things as
(50:42):
you need to be, and change as much as you want.
You're like allowed to do that.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Give the people the permission to grow. I love it, well, mal,
thank you so much, and good luck with everything. Yeah,
you know, I'm always in your corner and I can't
wait to hear about tying the knod and growing the family,
and I just want all the best things for you,
So you deserve that, and you know who knows what's
(51:10):
going to come out of that. You'd be surprised what
those type of doors open up in terms of clarity.
So I say this, being a mom has been the
greatest title I've ever held, and I've won a lot
in my career. So I'm wishing you both the best
of luck.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Thank you, friend, thank you, thank you, thank you all.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Right, thanks for being on Wide Open, and uh, we'll
see y'all next week. I really appreciate Mouth for showing
up fully and sharing their truth on their own terms.
There's power in that, especially in a world that constantly
asks queer people and women to explain themselves. In this episode,
(51:52):
I hope it resonates with you. I hope it gives
you permission to protect your peace, to evolve, and to
let the version of love look exactly how it needs
to look in that moment. Thank you for being here,
thank you for listening with an open heart, and for
continuing to show up on Wide Open with me, and
I'll see you next time.
Hi everyone, It's Ashlyn Harris and welcome to Wide Open.
So this Christmas and holiday season, I'm really looking forward
to having my children for like a white Christmas upstate.
My mom is coming in town, Sophia's mom's coming, our
(00:23):
friend Jack Garrett is coming, and it just feels really
special to have special people to celebrate the holidays and
a new year. So I got the kids a bunch
of tubes and adult sized tubes, and I think we're
just going to have a blast in the snow and
really spend quality time together and eat a bunch of
(00:46):
good food to feel like just fill our souls with
laughter and all the things that we need charging into
this new year of twenty twenty six. For New Year's
we're coming back to the city, so it'll be interesting
to figure out what we want to do as a family.
Like clearly the kids won't stay up, but I'm not
(01:08):
one for big crowds. I gotta be honest. I don't
like going to bed late. It's like, I know I
have to get up at six am with my babies,
and I look forward to it. So what we're going
to do is I bought a ton of black lights,
like back in the day, my room was full of
black lights, so I bought glasses and glowsticks and face paint.
(01:33):
We are going to have the most epic fucking rave
these kids have ever been a part of. We have
glow in the dark clothes, so I just have like
a ton of rave glowsticks and black lights. So I
don't even know if the if these kids know what
they're about to get their self into. But now that
(01:53):
they know it's coming, every day they're like, we don't
want to go to school, mom, we want to party
when we get home. Are we gonna do the party?
So they're now calling the Rave the party? So who
knows what they're telling their kids their classmates at school
right now. I love being a mom and I love
including them and everything, and I think those are the
(02:15):
moments they'll really remember the most, not the presence, you know,
but really the experience of just doing really fun things
like that. So I look forward to holidays to have
that time with them. I am, you know, as everyone knows,
I'm I'm you know, I'm a professional athlete. I don't
I'm never gonna say retired because I don't think it
(02:35):
ever leaves you. I'm about discipline. I'm about creating habits.
So for me, you know, some people are like I'm
gonna work out more or I'm gonna do this, and
then they go really hard for like one month and
then they're fucking over it and they're that they quit.
Like I'm just I keep my shit consistent. I think
(02:58):
that's what people don't understand. And it's like, why do
we make these goals for the new year, Like this
should be a habit of how we show up every
fucking day, like and if you can put that and
instill that in your brain, it's like, it doesn't have
to be a hard work out every day. Just get
some movement in and if you don't fuck with that,
(03:19):
just stretch, do some mindful like meditation or breathing anything
that like you want to do. I don't think you
have to do it in extremes, like if you want
to read a book or you want to just like
chip it little by little and create habits and be
disciplined about it, and I think you'll live a better life.
(03:40):
I don't eat shit food, so I don't, like, I
don't know what I would change, Like I grab life
by the fucking balls and I don't wait for New
Years to make changes. Like if I don't like something,
or I'm not happy with something or the way my
body feels or the way I'm showing up, I do
the fucking work to it when people aren't watching. I
(04:01):
don't have to write it on Instagram to be like
New Year's resolution, Like my goals are not for everyone else,
like I'm constantly chasing them. And I wish people had
that mindset instead of, oh wait till twenty twenty six.
I'm like, you don't even know if you'll be here
in twenty twenty six. Change it today. I'm blessed. My
(04:23):
kids are healthy, my partner's healthy, my family's healthy, and
like that to me is success. That is what I
hope for. I wish for because money can't fucking buy it.
So that's my wish for twenty twenty six is everyone
continues to stay healthy and here that's all I hope for.
(04:55):
Welcome back to Wide Open today. We have a very
special guest mouth right Is on the show. You might
know Mao from season one of The Queer Ultimatum, but
that's just one chapter of a much bigger story. Before
the cameras, Mao was shaping culture behind the scenes, styling
at Barney's, building a reputation in streetwear, and moving through
(05:17):
creative spaces with intention and a quiet confidence about them.
Mal isn't someone who chased the spotlight. The spotlight actually
found her, and with that came a lot of opinions, projections,
and expectations about who she is, how she lives, and
what her life should look like. This is one of
(05:39):
those conversations that really stays with you. Mao's honesty about love, privacy,
and identity is an important reminder that growth doesn't always
look loud. Sometimes it looks like pulling inward, setting boundaries
and reflecting what you actually want, not what people expect
(06:00):
from you. All right, everyone, and welcome back to another
episode of Wide Open. I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris, and
today we have the very wonderful mal Right. Welcome to
this show.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
What's up? I'm good man, How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I'm good. Life is busy, life is crazy. I'm trying
to keep two children alife, alive and make my beautiful
partner happy as much as I can. So it's a
full time job.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Same same I'm trying to keep my one fur pet alive.
So there's that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Oh we have a fur pet, not.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Quite a child.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But yes, I'll tell you what, it's a good stepping stone.
It's all the same same at least, like they don't
talk talk back though, That's what I will say. That's
the one thing I miss about having a little pet
is just the cuddles and no understanding of time whatsoever
(06:58):
and always happy to see me and then doesn't talk
shit and isn't a mini terrorist.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, I'm the step parent in this situation, so I
kind of feel like when she doesn't listen to me,
I'm like, are you talking back to me? And I'm
just like trying to be on your team here. I
don't right want to be for you.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I love it tell everyone what's going on in your world.
I mean, most people clearly know you if you are
like a warm, gentle hug that people if they don't
know you. I feel really bad because every time I
see you, or every time I see you on social
you have such a warmth about you that is so infectious.
(07:43):
You are literally a gentle hug all the time, and
I adore you, and I'm curious, like what is going
on in Mal's world. We're done with the Queer ultimatum,
which is so sad, like sad.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I know, I know, Oh, we're done with it. It's
good for I'm happy about it personally, you know, okay
for viewers, though, I am sad that that we're done
with it, like that Netflix has done with it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
They're done. Like what it was? It was so good, I.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Know, and it was like one of the most viewed
in that enterprise, So you know, take that up with Uh.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well you definitely well clearly you were in season one,
but you helped cast which is so cool for season two. Yeah,
and did they give you any scoop about like why
they chose not to continue moving forward?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
No, no scoop. I have my hunches, I have my
idea you know what I think could be, but they
didn't confirm it. And I think I personally think it
has something to do with, you know, the current administration.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I don't know, and that hasn't been confirmed. Then
I hope not. I hope it's for a different reason.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. It's unfortunate too, because I feel like everyone's treading
lightly and then like Hunting Wives comes out and blows
everything on It's fucking right. I'm like, so what is it?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I mean people are starving for this kind of like
content and then we're removing it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I know.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Glad came out with this study saying like, I don't
know exactly the number, but like over fifty to sixty
seven percent of queer shows are gone, like people aren't
even fucking with it, like done because of probably this
new administration, which is like really sad because we made
so many strides for like representation and everything we do.
(09:48):
As I imagine, you know, I actually I'm not gonna
suggest like what was your reasoning and thoughts being like, yeah,
let's do this. I'm gonna go on this show and
as someone who's what I consider is quite quiet and
so like sacred of their personal space, like what made you.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Be like yep, this is for me I the first Okay,
so the enterprise didn't exist yet, it just wasn't around,
so there was no reference, you know, for what we
were getting into at the time. It was also post
I'm going to say post pandemic, although you know, you know,
there's it's still one, but it was like right after
(10:29):
when people kind of wanted to be outside or go
do other things and could be And I honestly didn't
think it was going to turn into what it was
going to turn into. I had no and I make
pretty calculated decisions, but I had no clue that it
was going to become what it was going to become.
(10:50):
Had I known that, I don't think I would have
done it. I likely know that I wouldn't have. Yeah,
I just thought, oh, this is kind of a calculated risk,
Like I really didn't care to do it to begin with.
And you know, we talked about it at the time
and kind of talked it through several times and had
several meetings, and finally at the end, I'm like, well,
(11:10):
I guess, I mean, worst case scenario, we do have
the tools to navigate it. So because we were like
therapy heavy, like once a week couple's therapy for a year.
So I'm like, well, I guess we have the language
if should something crazy come up. Yeah, you know, And
I was like, I guess, Like, I guess, let's try it.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I tried to weigh it as best as I could.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah. No, Yeah, did you feel like there's a part
of you that gained so much, you know, creatively, the
evolution of what love and self care look like. You know,
your job, your work as a stylist, creative consultant, everything
you do. Do you think it helped propel like this
(11:57):
new mal who you are now after the show or
actually did it hinder it? Because I think people don't
understand the levity of being on a show for the
first time and what type of attention trust me, both
positive and fucking negative and everything else in between of
just being open and honest. And I'm curious, Yeah, if
(12:19):
that helped progress your life in beautiful ways or has
it been crippling and a lot of others.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I think maybe both. I think it's hard to say
that it It's hard to have full scope and speak
with any bit of like conviction really because like my
life's not done yet, right, so I don't I actually
am not sure if it impacted me negatively, and I'm
not and I don't tend to think that way anyway.
(12:52):
Like my philosophy is just not that there are things
that have been really hard about it, and I think
it did rather than propelling anything, I think it did amplify,
you know, Like I think any bit of any bit
of visibility or public visibility or fame or whatever we
(13:12):
want to call it. I think, depending on what it is,
can definitely amplify who you already are mm hmm. And
that's allowed to change as it needs to. But I
definitely think it's just shine more of a light on
kind of who I am. And that is hard that
(13:33):
there are some things that are really wonderful about it
and I feel really great about and there are some
things where I'm like, Damn, I didn't I didn't want
to put like a microphone up to vulnerability. I didn't
want to do that.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, you know it's scary. It's absolutely scary. And
it's also the things you're doing and living publicly, like
hold you accountable in a lot of ways because people
don't understand that, like love is ever changing and the
evolution of a human is constantly evolving. So people if
you say one thing, it's like you can't be a
(14:07):
different way, you can't see love in a different light.
Like people are so fixated on like that exact moment.
And I imagine you're a totally different mouth than you
were during that show. I mean, you're radiating life and love.
I don't know what your skincare routine is, but it's
it's it's skinny, it's working, but you're happy like you're happy,
(14:31):
like your your life is full of so much like
genuine care and you're receiving it the way I imagine
you always have. Because the way you talk about your
partner and how you both show up for each other
has been really beautiful to watch. And I want to
know the mau on that show being you know, and
(14:53):
I'm not going to do the whole compare partner thing,
but I want to know, has your idea of love
in partnership and showing up changed since you've been on
that show? Now you are, you know, in a healthy
relationship that you're absolutely obsessed with your partner, which is
so cute.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
But has that idea and identity like completely shifted.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Absolutely And I think it would be it'd be a
disservice to it would be a disservice to the rest
of my life and the things that have transpired since
the show. It'd be a disservice to not speak about
those things too, right, because I think the show was
a small fraction of like so much life that was
happening beyond that. You know, we had just we had
(15:41):
just gotten out of came out of COVID, and I think,
I think COVID relationships are a very specific type of experience.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Oh funny you and now you are not kidding with that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Right, And and we didn't we didn't have the tools.
You know, life just keeps going, and it's and it's relentless,
it just goes. It doesn't for a second to like assess,
what did we just fucking go through trying to manage
a relationship mid COVID, mid pandemic. Not to mention, we
lived in a city where the civil unrest around George
Floyd and all this was huge. We lived in Seattle,
(16:16):
and Seattle was, according to the news, was going crazy.
All everywhere was the Seattle specifically was the one city
that had this like acquiesced you know, the people had
acquiesced the zone or whatever, and it was just like
this autonomou zone. We had no cops, we had nothing,
and it looked like it was lawless according to the news. Meanwhile,
while we were there, you saw people actually like educating
(16:39):
each other on the street, and you saw like kind
of what seemed like a utopia or like what you'd
hope humans would do given everything. So that was happening. Yeah,
while trying to manage what was an extremely unhealthy relationship
or you know whatever it was. So we thought, oh,
like we got to take care of each other. The
(16:59):
world is ending as we know it, when really I
think at that time we probably should have. We should
have broken up long before that, but we didn't. So
there's that. Then we do the show, Then we come
out of the show and life is continuing, and the
show doesn't air for another year post breakup, and you know,
(17:22):
I had moved across the country in that time. Right
after that, my dad passed. Like there was just so
much life happening.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, it's heavy, and I think that's the part that
people don't understand. But like what people don't know, they
don't know. Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment.
After this brief message from our sponsors. I imagine you
(17:54):
watching back the show and the experiences that were going
on and things that were coming out of COVID, and
life is lifeing and experiences are experiencing, Like what is
it that people really got wrong? Because this is what
I always wonder and I've never been on a reality show,
but I imagine when you go in there, you forego
(18:17):
the concept of control, Like people can flip it and
reverse it all they want. They producers who are very
good at their job, will get out of you what
they want. Nit clip slip, make you look like a
totally This is about entertainment, right, So I'm curious if
(18:37):
you felt that way or was it a true like
you really felt like they understood who mal was. And
if there's anything that you feel like the audience got
really wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
That's such an interesting question. I think that I got
a good edit, right, I think that I didn't. I
think also I didn't have to do much comparatively speaking.
My situation was very very particular, right, So I didn't
(19:16):
have to do much, And I think that maybe it
kind of robbed me of humanity. I think I think
I now, looking back, I'm like me looking back at myself.
Then I want to protect myself, and I want to
tell myself, like stand up for yourself, like say say more.
(19:37):
You know. So, I don't know if the audience got
anything wrong. It was just it was just a place
in time. I think what the audience gets wrong a
lot of times is holding people to who they saw forever. Yes,
you know, and whether that's obviously I mean that's part
(19:57):
of that's part of production, and that's part of storytelling.
And also I think audience oftentimes we don't digest the
stuff with a critical eye, and we don't allow for
humanity to be like ever expanding and a person's personhood
we keep them to that forever. I think, particularly queer community.
(20:18):
And I don't know, I don't know what's going on
in straight people business, but quickly typically has an interesting
relationship with punity too, Like when we watch we observe
a person do something and have a human moment, whether
we agree with it or not, we think they should
be punished forever mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And the hard Yeah, we don't really have to give
zero grace to people nowadays. And not only that, like
I feel you when you say that, Like we I
say this often we don't stand on the shoulders of
other people to allow them like I don't have to
agree with everyone. I'm here to respect right, Like I'll
(21:01):
give people grace, and I also want people to have
a open heart that they can change, because I think
fear lies in the unknown. I think a lot of
you know, especially our queer community, a lot of the hatred.
You know, when I have conversations, it's just people have
(21:23):
never met someone like me, so until they understand it,
they fear it. And I think the only way to
get and cut through it is to really give grace
and like have those hard conversations and sometimes like with
family members and this, and it's like we have to
do it over and over and over and we have
(21:45):
to be willing to do that. And I think right now,
especially in the queer community, we're just like you either
fuck with me or you don't, Like we just have
had it. Like we're at the point where we're like
I'm done explaining. I'm done, Like I don't want to
explain my queerness anymore. Like it's just the grace has
(22:06):
has It's disappeared in a lot of ways. And I
do think people change, but we have to allow them
to have the space to do so without chomping them
at their next constantly. Yeah so that you know I'm
are curious too, Yes, yes, yeah, I'm scared to death.
I'll be honest. You know, my kids are three and four,
(22:30):
but you know they're being raised in this time of
social media, and if they fly off the handle and
write something, it doesn't just affect them, it's going to
affect the way the ability to go to school and
have friends in college and work. In my life. It's
like they don't get mistakes, they don't get the space
to grow, they don't get the space to be kids anymore.
(22:53):
And that's that's fucking heavy. Yeah, because there's a lot
of shit that I've done in my past that not
necessarily proud of, but it was like an important growth
process for me to understand, like, Okay, who am I
and what is my character? And who do I want
to be? But I had to go through some shit
(23:14):
to get there. But thank god it wasn't plastered all
over social media. I mean, it's just it's you can't
escape it. You can't. It's like this vicious fucking cycle
over and over and over, and it's like the grace
is gone, that shit's gone. Empathy, care, warmth, which is
(23:37):
interesting because that's like, I feel like something we both
have like a lot in common. We look a certain
way and people get certain ideas, but I'm about as
fucking mushy and soft as you can get. See, it's
a it's a sweet, interesting dynamic when you judge a
book by its cover. Let's let's just say that. So,
(24:00):
what what have you? What's what's new for you right now?
I know you just you just moved out of the city,
and you know you're originally from Brooklyn where you originally
from California?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No, really from the West Coast. Yeah, from Anaheim.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Damn, I didn't know that I moved.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I've moved a lot. Yeah. I think that probably adds
to some of the some of the I don't know
if it's some of the mushiness, but some of the friendliness.
I suppose. I grew up in California. We moved a lot.
My dad was a VP of a company, and we
lived in California, and we lived in Arizona and moved
back to California. Then they built a house in Florida,
(24:41):
and I went to high school and college there and
then I left after college, moved to Atlanta and my job,
you know, my little my big girl job. I got there,
and then they moved me to Chicago and then Seattle,
and then that's where I started doing, you know, casting
for the show, and then we did we lived in
(25:01):
San Diego for a second after the show, I moved
to New York, like I have moved around.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, quite a bit. But is that the curious is
that the curiosity piece in you and the constant like
I think you're just you're Some people are not good
at it, but like I just feel like everywhere you are,
you're kind of a light in the room. So it's
not scary to start over to meet new friends or
you know, new community. And I think that's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, I've always had to do it quick, you know,
because I don't know how long it's gonna last. So
and I love community, and I know in my household,
I recall my parents were both immigrants to this country,
and I always recall them being the house where everybody
gathered all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
They were the house that's so cute. I love that.
I like, that's my You know, when you were talking
about how your co parenting a fur baby, I guess
that's interesting. Same part now as a mom, Like it
brings me so much joy to hear someone talk about
their family and their experiences, and like, I want to
(26:11):
create those little moments of traditions. And I was just
thinking about this the other day. It's like why buy
the kids all of these toys just because I can.
I'm going to give the children an opportunity to pick
five experiences and like let's just get it could be
(26:31):
whatever their little heart's desire. I mean, within reason. Let's
let's not get crazy. But it's going to be like arcade,
chuck e cheese, ballet. My daughter's really into being a
ballerina and a princess these days. But yeah, I do.
I value the experience over like just getting the things
because I can. And it's like such a short grab
(26:53):
of happiness instead of really giving my children experience and
like to see the world and to see other people
and understand their privilege and maybe not you know, like
I'm raising, you know, a black and brown child, Like
they've got a lot about life to learn, especially you know,
(27:15):
being adopted by two white moms. Like there's just so
much and I think, you know, I was talking to
my partner the other day and I came from a
family that didn't have much. But I was talking to
my partner and I'm like, what about if we just
go and like pay for kids kids toys, like parents
(27:35):
who are paying and it's hard, but like have our
children do it to give back and understand like how
lucky and blessed they are, but also like teach them
about care and like there are a lot of people
out there who have totally different experiences than we do,
and like it's our job to take care of our community,
(27:58):
and how are we going to serve other people? And
I just think there's just so much meaning And my
wheels are constantly turning being a mom, and I consider
myself a new mom after a few years. But it's
just a really cool process to really do it right.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well I'm trying, honey, I'm trying good. Who Yeah, but like,
who what? How did you grow up?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I want to go back to you talking about your
you know, your thoughts and being a mom, and it's
reminded me of how I grew up, right like you
what you were saying was reminding me of my mom.
My mom was really big on like making sure we
go feed the hungry, or like you know, involving ourselves
in soup kitchens. My family, uh, they still run it
(28:44):
and they still have it, but they run a group
home for mentally challenged men. So these were like my
brothers are like my you know, my family. I grew
up with these men or see or visiting them anyway often.
So service has always been service and community has always
been part of my family's threat, and it's very normal
(29:04):
to me. It's not like it's a very natural thing
to me to want to serve and be a part
of that any way that I can. So, yeah, that
was definitely growing up. My dad came from Cuba. He
he fled Cuba, and him too, he's very community focused
and like you are, you're only as strong as your community.
(29:26):
He's he's very much so ingrained that in us from
like birth, you know. But other than that, I also
played basketball. I grew up playing basketball. Yeah, basketball college.
I was a three. Well do you know you played soccer? Right?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I did? I played I played everything.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah. I see you at the Liberty Games, I know.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah season take a holder, baby, come on.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I saw you managing the kids too, so.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
They you know, it's it's they want to see Ellie.
You know, it's like, don't be all the thing, don't
we all It's why I go to the games too.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, but yeah, that's kind of how I grew up.
My brother also grew up playing basketball. We're twelve years apart.
I was a baby, so I kind of grew up
almost like an only child a little bit.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
You know it was me and my parents were older.
I mean my dad, I mentioned him passing, he was ninety.
He just passed last year. Yeah, I had older parents
and older community around me. That's my part so too.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, you got that wisdom and you're just whyse and
the way you move in the world like it's it's
it's clicking for me.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Now, older people and a lot of loss will do.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It, total think.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
They always say I'm this like gentle and soft because
of what I've had to experience and overcome. I don't
think that I find that very true in every aspect.
I think, you know, but it takes a lot of work. Now,
it takes a lot of work as someone who has
(31:06):
been hurt or has endured so much trauma not to
project that onto other people. And it takes a lot
of work to see through that because hurt people hurt
other people one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I think when you use the language gentle is something
I really resonate with because I think, you know, I
consider myself a gentle being. But it's a practice that's
not like a you don't just arrive there. That is
a constant thing that you're practicing, is remaining a gentle
human and it really really otherwise pretty harsh world.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, you know, yes, it's very very Yeah. How have
you in a world that is quite harsh, especially right
now for our community? How are you creating a safe
space for yourself and you know, like setting boundaries or
whatever it is for you.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The thing I can reflect on most easily is I
just came off of I just did a ten day
vapasha and if I don't know if you know if
this is or not, but it's ten day silent situation.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Silent. Yeah, it's like a spiritual it's like really.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, well, and Vapashna is specifically teaching you how to
sit with pain, you know, yea, yeah, So I just
did that and meditation. I meditate every morning for an
hour and that doing that, having that practice specifically around
(32:43):
vapashna has really kind of helped. And if not for
anything else, it helps me get ultra present and it
helps me kind of just be unmoved. I don't really
react as big to things anymore, not the good order
the bad. I just kind of stay stationary and take
(33:03):
it all as information whatever's happening around me, and respond
to that as best as I can.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, what do you think was your your biggest breakthrough?
And you said you went for how many days?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Ten? Ten days?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Ten? And that's nothing. You have no communication, no phones,
it's like silence.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
No journal, just being with yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeahah, so what do you what would you say was
the biggest breakthrough if you don't mind sharing and getting
you know, wide open about it, Like, what was the
big breakthrough moment for you doing this? It?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I think it unfolds to me like weekly I have
a new download about it. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Had I not done this, I wouldn't have known this.
I think we don't spend nearly enough time with ourselves,
none of us that we need to, not at all,
(34:02):
And I obviously I know, like there are systems in
place that don't really allow for that. Like we're all
on the hamster wheel. Capitalism is a bitch. When we
got a participate, we don't have time, but we need it.
We need it, We need it so badly, so deeply.
We need to sit through discomfort because it informs so much. Yeah,
(34:25):
it's healing, and we have this, we have this way
that we sit in solitude. And I hear people sometimes
I laugh a little bit because people are like, I
love my solitude and all the shit, and I'm like,
solitude under your control is very different than having to
having to sit beyond you being done with silence. Those
(34:46):
are two very different things. Solitude when you're fasting is
very different, you know. And it's not peaceful. Silence isn't
peaceful at all, not beyond you wanting to be in it.
It's quite chaotic. Our brains are quite They're animals, you know,
they're wild animals. And so I don't think I don't
(35:11):
know that we've I don't know that I'm a masterive
piece either, But I don't know that we've really massive
piece until we can sit still amongst chaos for real.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Wow, stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment
after this brief message from our sponsors. Well, I also
think because we're fed so much negativity and we have
(35:42):
access to it so often, people don't understand it penetrates
and it's breaking, and it's it's damaging and short circuiting us,
and our brain is almost seeking it, feeding off I mean,
think about all the shit people nowadays.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, the things that brains we have addictive brains to
the most wild ass shit we can consume, and we're
getting so desensitized by I mean, everything on nowadays that
has the highest numbers are the most fucked up shows,
and people love.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
To consume it. And then we we're curious of why
we're all having mental health episodes and we're having terrible
thoughts and negative self talk. And it is a practice,
like how it's a it's a choice too, of what
we choose to consume and put it down and say
this isn't the best thing for me, and then I
(36:45):
don't have to project or put this this it affects
the way we move in the world and we don't
even fucking know it.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah we don't. If I did take that, That's one
thing I took away from from doing that retreat was
also like I just felt over an overwhelming amount of
compassion for the human condition, like people do. They literally
don't know what they're doing. They don't know, and we're
just consuming and taking it in and we're just so addicted.
(37:17):
We're just such we have such addictive brains and it's
so simple, but it's so like damn.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I agree, And I think we have this society
where we're constantly trying to be someone else that we
do very quickly lose sight of who we are. You
can be yourself and you can be beautifully yourself, and
everyone should. We are are so different. The way we
(37:46):
show up is different, the way we dress is different.
Like people, you know, when I was a player, They're like,
I want to be just like you don't want don't
you don't want to be me? Yeah, I won't you
be better than me? Yeah, I'm doing this so you
can be better than me. Like I think we forget that,
you know, especially at someone like you. Like style, like icon,
(38:09):
the way you show up, the way you move in
the world, like it's infectious. So people want to be
like it and they want to be like it at
all costs. But I'm like, you're losing yourself and your
identity in the process.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, it's like the can be you. Yeah, yes, you
can't skip that. You can't skip the process. But I
think more than anything, when I see that now, I
think my lenses, Like people really just want belonging, They
just want to belong somewhere. Really at any expense, and
they're doing what they think is that thing, you know,
(38:42):
to create, to have belonging wherever that is, you know,
and that that hurts me like that sometimes pains me,
even me. I mean, I think nobody's exempt from doing it.
I think I've also, you know, morph myself a million
times in my life for belonging.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I think absolutely, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I'm at the point where I'm I'm shedding the need
to do that, you know, But I'm not beyond it.
I don't think I'm beyond it. Yeah, I have an
idea of who I think I want to be, you know,
and I'm still getting to know myself. I don't think
that ends.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, just even giving yourself the space to say that
and own it, I think is important for other people
to hear, because, you know, I was laughing with Sophia.
We were on a cruise with my high school friends
and one of my high school friends said something that
really I haven't stopped thinking about, and you just reminded me.
(39:47):
She goes, Wow, celebrities are just like us.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I was like, what do you what does that even
fucking mean? Like, what do you mean by that? And
I didn't want to draw attention to it, but it
just shows that people have these ideas based on what
they see or character that's played or a deal that's endorsed,
(40:12):
whether it's cosmetic or clothes. Like we we fuck up
just like anyone else. We eat, sleep, do the same shit.
Like we are not perfect humans. We're not perfect people.
We don't have the answers to everything. We're like all
just figuring it out on our own too.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, Like it was a really weird reflective moment to
be like, oh, that's like what some people think when
they see entertainment or athletes or this or that. It's like,
is there really a reflected moment?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Right? I do wish consumers, I mean I'm I do
wish consumers would hold on to that, you know, more
often when consuming people in their lives, just like, oh,
they're just like us. I think entertainers are celebrity cultures
as a departure from your own life. And I can
I can understand that. I can understand tuning into some
(41:14):
big figures business because you get to depart from your
own world. Yep, I get that, but then we got
to tune back in like that's they are just a
human they're just a human.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. So let's let's say this,
would you create a new reality show if you were
the creative like lead behind it, would you want to
see another?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
You know?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It doesn't it can be Reality can be unscripted, it
can be scripted, like, what are your thoughts? Would you
want to dabble in it? Or you've you've done it
and you're closing your you're tying that in a pretty
bow and you're like, Okay, I did it. I'm done.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
I'm going to say, given the current landscape of how
people consume media, no, I wouldn't not now say more.
I just don't. I just think that there's a lot
of work to be done in the world around us.
(42:19):
I think we need to tap back in with each
other in community and fixing the world around us. I
do think we need breaks from things, for sure, and
you get to decide what that break looks like for you.
I don't have any rules around that. But I just
don't think consuming other people's life is it. I just
(42:41):
don't think that's it. I just don't think reality TV.
I appreciate it, obviously, I watch it and I have
commentary just like anybody else. But I just don't know
that I would want to add to that echo chamber
that already exists. I don't have anything else to add
to it right now. Yeah, I don't think that even
(43:02):
if I did, I'm unsure that that's what people want
to see, you know, right now, the humans right now,
I don't think. I don't think our brains want to
see that just yet. You know, you're not anything worth consuming.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's so true, and I like this is going to
be And I don't know if you get this, but
I do feel like men, straight white men are the
most intrigued by people like you and I, yes, period,
I say this all the time to Sophia. I get
(43:39):
hit on more straight white dudes then I do. Women
like I don't get chased by queer women for some reason.
There's this weird fact you like, it is so bizarre,
and I'm curious, like, do you agree? Does it happen
to you? What are your thoughts about this?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
I will say I think I feel like my experience
may be as far as getting hit on. I think
when straight white men get drunk, yes, then they say.
In my experience, I have had them say crazy shit
to me or get extremely curious, and I'm like, where
are the fuck is going? I thought we were I
thought we were growing it out and this is weird.
(44:23):
Now you've made it weird. And also I say that,
and I also want to hold that like humans are curious,
you know, and like they just are and they just
have questions. And I think while men can be problematic,
I think that I do have grace for men just
being curious, being people, just being curious about whatever. They
(44:43):
haven't been able to question socially before, so that makes
me sad for them. But straight white men have been
the most. Like usually they've been like were you on
that show? I was just in the barbershop the other
day and this guy and it's like a very hetero barbershop. Yeah,
(45:04):
why dude was just like, hey, can I ask you
a weird question? And I was like, what's up? You know?
And he's like were you on that show?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Like oh my god, and.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
He's like you were awesome. Me and my girlfriend watched
it like it was really cool to watch you. And
that has happened quite a bit, and I think it's
I think it's kind of cool. I think it's funny,
but also also pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Uh, it's very entertaining out and about, Like I, I
do find it really fun and entertaining, especially like I
just my childhood best friend just had a bachelorette party
on a cruise out of Florida. So the amount of
growing going on was like comedy. I learned so much
(45:53):
about life and things I had no business knowing about
being on that cruise with a lot of straight people. Yeah,
I know what I've thought about swingers. I learned a
lot about upside down pineapples. Yes, I'm like a I
know nothing.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
And straight men are kind of like in some of
the situations I've been around or just observed, they get
pretty queer, like get kind of like gay. It gets yeah,
so broe in the spectrum that it goes like yeah,
like if gay is hearing and hetero's here, it goes
very far around and lines right back up and it
(46:36):
gets real.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
It's real, It's really something. There was one gentleman who
was walking around the boat and every day he had
a new upside down pineapple T shirt. And I guess
it was like code for like I'm opening. I'm opened,
I know, and I just I had so many questions
(47:00):
I wanted I would have him on the podcast. Honestly,
I have to find this dude. I think his name
is probably Mike. If I were to get Mike with
the Pineapple shirt, I need him on the podcast because
I need him to tell me everything because the shirts
eye was Yeah, I mean it was so broie in
(47:21):
a really weird way. I just I have thoughts and
I'm giving grace, but I have thoughts, yeah, and I
need to just know more.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
No grace. But that's a question.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So what's next for e mail? Well, what's what's what
are you looking forward to? You know what what's next
for you right now?
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Oh? So many things. I mean, me and my partner
are just moved into a new place. So that's beautiful.
I'm feeling like I want to take the next step.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
That's all I'm going to give you on this pod.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Okay, Yeah, we'll tell you about it line, Yeah, tell
me everything. And and I'm really happy to see you happy.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I'll tell you all the things. I think there's that
there's we're talking about, Like we're talking about kids and stuff,
and we're talking about I mean, our families love us.
It's beautiful. Working on a book, stuff, working on podcast stuff,
so I get to actually just be I have the
privilege at this point of being as creative as I
(48:33):
want to be with a partner that loves it and
supports it. And I'm lucky enough, you know, to have
a platform that really supports me. So that's where I'm
at right now. Maybe I'll go back to corporate. I
don't know, though I was in corpor for a long time,
but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
I know the possibilities are endless. Yeah, would you would
you want to be in fashion? What would you want
to do corporate America?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Probably strategy, I think like brand strategy would probably be
would probably be it. I'm so I'm so involved with
the people and like I'm actually like in the field
with people. Yeah, and I'm really fascinated by how people
think and make decisions. So probably strategy if I were
to that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I'm gonna call you.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
You with me, you're with me? Call me out?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah? You know, well now, thanks thanks so much for
coming on. Uh for everyone out there, like go follow
them out. She's one of the coolest people I know.
And we didn't even get a chance to really talk
about like our identity, but I really feel like I'm
gonna have you on because I do feel like, what
(49:45):
do you want to give the people listening and watching
right now? Hmmm?
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I think for the whole like human community straight wherever you,
however you exist, if you have an identity and you
are living and you're a human, you be gentle. Be
gentle on yourself, be gentle with yourself and the people
around you. And life is really really, really really short,
(50:21):
and it's really fragile, So like you owe it to
yourself to be as gentle as you can and practice
that and give yourself grace and space to be a
thousand different people in this one in this one little
life you have to live, not knowing when it can end.
Give yourself permission to be as many different things as
(50:42):
you need to be, and change as much as you want.
You're like allowed to do that.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Give the people the permission to grow. I love it, well, mal,
thank you so much, and good luck with everything. Yeah,
you know, I'm always in your corner and I can't
wait to hear about tying the knod and growing the family,
and I just want all the best things for you,
So you deserve that, and you know who knows what's
(51:10):
going to come out of that. You'd be surprised what
those type of doors open up in terms of clarity.
So I say this, being a mom has been the
greatest title I've ever held, and I've won a lot
in my career. So I'm wishing you both the best
of luck.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Thank you, friend, thank you, thank you, thank you all.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Right, thanks for being on Wide Open, and uh, we'll
see y'all next week. I really appreciate Mouth for showing
up fully and sharing their truth on their own terms.
There's power in that, especially in a world that constantly
asks queer people and women to explain themselves. In this episode,
(51:52):
I hope it resonates with you. I hope it gives
you permission to protect your peace, to evolve, and to
let the version of love look exactly how it needs
to look in that moment. Thank you for being here,
thank you for listening with an open heart, and for
continuing to show up on Wide Open with me, and
I'll see you next time.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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