March 3, 2025 • 57 mins
Ashlyn talks to Blakely Thornton—famed Scorpio and pop culture anthropologist. Together, they dissect homophobic homoerotic spaces, standing ten toes down on the internet, and being proud aunts to A-list celebrities. From Blakely’s past as a closeted college football player, to his current career on TikTok, TV, and beyond, they get honest about seeing past peoples’ false fronts and getting to the heart of what you need in an honest relationship– whether online, in person, or through a screen.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Love Loved.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Love. Welcome back everyone to a new episode of Wide
Open with Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This next guest You're gonna absolutely adore. I adore him.
He's funny as hell.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
His social media is some of the best content I've
ever seen.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Watch witnessed.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Blakely introduce yourself to the viewers, to the listeners.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello, everyone, are you?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
What have you?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
What are you doing? Say all the things.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm Blakelee Thornton born in Dallas, Texas. I'm thirty nine
years young. Yehall, We're surviving like everybody else. I think
right now. Professionally, I would call myself a pop culture anthropologist.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
It's primarily on.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Social but kind of expanding to soon like this, the
podcast world and hopefully other aspects of media. And I'm
just kind of professionally poking holes on life. Things are
the way they are right now. That is my current landscape.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You've literally done so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I was reading through everything in your bio and what
led you here, and I was like, what has he
not done?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Is my question? Because you've you've walked so.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Many lives at this point, and you you have done
a lot in fashion and entertainment behind the camera and
now you're in front of it. Yes, now, hell you're acting, honey,
you're doing all these things, and you're really finding your way,
and you're changing the landscape of how we consume content
when it comes to politics, fashion, pop culture.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Like you are leading the charge.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you, thank you, And I can't stop watching your
fucking content. It just like no one's safe. That's the best,
Like no one safe. It's like fuck around and find out.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Truly, truly, truly, truly, it really is. But I think
we need to have that in the culture. Think so
much of the reason we are where we are election
and media and fashion is because people are like scared
to say something because of like a future dollar. And
for me, I think I have the benefit of not
like these people don't pay my bills, so like when
(02:14):
you come in and they do, or if you're on
a network show or you have a radio show, you're
beholden to sponsors. But like I got to come in
through this little thing called social media, like thank you,
Daddy Zuckerberg, even though I kind of hate you half
the time too, and just be like what the fuck
is happening here? And I think what you find is
a lot of times all I'm doing is asking why,
and that's always been in my nature to some as
(02:35):
a child, Like when something is presenting to me, whether
it's music or a music video or an awards ceremony,
I'm like, who is making it? Why do they make
it that way? Even who's reviewing it? Like looking at
movie reviews, like seventy percent of movie reviewers, or like
straight white men, so like that's why, like when women
win Oscars, it's always playing like a hooker or a
slave exactly, yes, because it reaffirms straight white men's place
(02:58):
in the universe.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
So I'm always poking hole in the why of those things.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
For people who don't follow you, which they need to
kind of run them through what you're doing by poking
holes into people's stories.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I think the biggest thing for me is a lot
of people don't interrogate the why, even within themselves, of
why they do what they do. So I think when
we're looking at a commercial or a fashion campaign, I'm like, okay, Like,
if you see a blonde, skinny, straight woman seventy percent
of the time is the fashion face of a Chanel?
Why when you say, okay, she's luxurious? Why Why is
(03:35):
a skinny white woman luxurious to you? What about that
makes it says luxury? Or you're even interrogating, like going
to fashion with in the runways, why are there no
trans people? Why are there no people are different sizes?
Why is there nobody seeing no like Asians on a
runway when they are a huge part of the marketplace.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So I'm just asking, like why things are the way
they are?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And often when you peel back that first layer, it's
not always nefarious, but it kind of reveals people's biases.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yes, and that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Everybody is biased, Like I always kind of say too,
like I'm not objective, and people like you're my news,
I'm not your news. I'm an opinion based yes, And
I always say it's not v line, it's my line,
and that's my line as a cis fairly masculine presenting, queer,
black American like and all those things come with biases,
but I try to be aware of them. And I
(04:25):
think that's the thing is no one is objective, and
if we all realize we're just coming with an opinion,
it would be a much better world.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Let's say, do.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You write everything before when you do your breakdowns?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I usually my process people always say what's the process. Normally, literally,
I wake up around my intrusive thoughts coming around four
forty five in the morning, and I'm like, oh, you're
awake now, yeah, you have an hour told sunrise. And honestly,
the first thing I usually do is good to people
dot Com because I truly believe people dot Com is
a tool of the oppressor.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Oh my god, hello, I have.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Not believed them when they said Blake Shelton was the
sexiest man alive.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
They told on themselves. It's like we're liars.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
But when you look at people dot com, it literally
is like cold case white woman being murdered, some kind
of like wedding drama between women, and then like something
that about Mark Wahlberg, And those are all three things
I'm suspicious of.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, just by nature, so good.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
My process is usually looking at the news and being like,
that's interesting, why is it happening? But when I was little,
my mom, when I used to ask what a word meant,
she'd made me go to like an old school leather
bound book and look it up. And I think what
that did for me is one make me curious and
always being like, what does that word mean?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Go figure? It out.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
It kind of built that kind of habit into me.
And two, it's given me the ability to almost immediately,
in real time, describe exactly how something is making me feel.
And I think if that is what it distills down to,
that is like myquote unquote superpower is I can look
at something and immediately tell you exactly how I feel
(06:06):
about it in almost nanoseconds. So with like fashion, I
have to like look up who or what that took
takes a while. With politics, I have to like make
sure I'm looking at the laws of like what is
the role of the head of the FCC or what
is the role of the attorney general? And then I'm like, oh, okay,
we're fucked in.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Here's why. So that is the that is the look like,
you know, the mind behind the madness, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
But I want to talk about that because I always
start this podcast off because it's called wide open. It's
this ability in sport to seize a moment, to separate
yourself from the pack, to execute. But it's also this
part of life where we've all lived this beautiful journey
(06:55):
to make us and we're exactly who we are because
of the things we've gone through, and you have such
a beautiful interesting story as you know, a black queer
man in America, and you were like very good at sports.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Oh, I love sports. I think sports are a big
part of who I am.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I grew up a competitive tennis player in Texas, which
was like USTA Juniors, like Zach's super Champs, Nationals, et cetera.
And I was considering, like I wanted to go to Stanford.
My goal was to go to Stanford to play college tennis.
And then I realized when I came to turned about
fourteen fifteen that a lot of these kids that go
to Stanford go to these like tennis schools and like
(07:38):
Florida or Austin. I visited one in Austin, as those
kids are sociopass. I was just like they were for
me broken existence.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
I was like, I would like a little bit of
levity in my world, like.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I'm not trying to like, you know, freak out because
I don't make sixteens like sectionals or like nationals or whatever.
And then so I also got a seat in Spanish
my sophomore year, and I still wanted to go to
an IVY league or like high level school. So my
junior year of high school, I started playing football because
I was like, I'm fast, this is easy, I'll do it.
So that was my first football was my junior year.
(08:15):
I ended up getting recruited by like Harvard, Yale, Navy,
which was hilarious. I was never going to maybe that
was never gonna happen, and we ended up going to
University of Pennsylvania to play football. Played all four years.
It was the most homophobic and homo eerotic environment one
(08:36):
could ever be in, all at once, and I hated
every second of it. I think football is modern day slavery.
I don't think it she even exists as a sport.
It's just like getting concussions for public Republican billionaires, or
like exploiting young black men, so like Nick Saban can
make ten million dollars, Fuck you, Nick Saban and Urban
Meyer and the horses you rode in on in your state.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Too good.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
But I was just psychotically competitive, and it was also
just like, I don't know, sports teaches you perseverance. If
I went back, I would not do it again, I
don't think. But it's made me who I am. It's
made me able to kind of almost have an entire
dog dialogue in my brain without someone to back things
off of, because I mean, if you're a closeted homosexual
(09:23):
and college football team, you're not going to basically like,
there's always an awareness of speaking your real feelings about anything,
whether it's like, oh like, yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Britney Spears was hot, guys, or oh, hey.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Like I'm fucking with that new Lady Gaga album so
hard at all times, and like you're aware of that
because there's.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
A level of not being oneself.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So I also think that's kind of maybe who I
am in that I did that for so long that
I refuse to live a fucking second of my life
without like a gel set or a crop top or
wanting to carry a Schnell bag should I so please?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
And the Ralphs because I.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Know the other aspect of that, I feel like I
have no option but to be myself in its entirety
at all times.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
So take me back there.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Everyone asked me this all the time about the difference
between being a queer woman, a queer woman in sports,
and a queer man in sports, and my thing is is, like,
we're so we're all fucking lesbians. I mean, truthfully, it's
just like you're if you're not gay or identify as
somewhat queer, like people are like, are you good, you're
(10:29):
hiding you're are you sure? But in men's sports, you're right.
It's just it's the culture is so fucking toxic.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
It's truly and truly toxic.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And it's so sad because I would assume if you
can't bring your full self to the people you're going
to battle with, because you're right, football is fucking wild.
It is like your brainwashed to suffer and take hits,
and it's like, how is this even okay? And how
is this a sport? But the culture, the locker room
(11:02):
stuff is so toxic and it jeopardized it.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Really, it's a it's.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
An issue, and you can't be your full self. You
can't show up in the way you want to show
up in your life because of this sport and this
idea and this culture. People have an expectation of you
being this tall, sexy, black straight man who is out
(11:28):
here fucking all these women, and you're beautiful and you're
smart and you're all these things like that has to
impact yourself, your inner self at some point, like were
you ever just is this fucking worth it.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
The thing is, even the straight man can't be themselves.
Even the straight men are being muted by toxic masculinity
in that locker room because if you know, if somebody
wants listening to like Michelle Branch, because they just like
Michelle fucking Branch. So it's like nobody in a locker
room is completely themselves except the wildest, probably most misogynistic person.
(12:03):
There is an element of brotherhood in there. But I
always tell this story. Basically, we're going into freshman year camp.
So like I am eighteen years old. We go in
two weeks before school, like kind of like a hard
knocks thing before college football preseason, because I guess they
picked and I'd never showered in a like big room together.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I went to prep school, so we had stalls.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So like I was like, Okay, this is my first
time like being away from home doing this football camp thing,
which I kind of hate anyway, like cause I kind
of didn't even know all the rules. Like college high
school football in Texas is like go hit that person.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I'm athletic.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
They like sent me these like here's the motion, here's
just something I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
So I'm sitting there like I don't know the rules.
Fucking gay all right. So like this.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Second day in camp, we're in the showers and like
this twenty three year old like super seniors like Blakely,
you have a fucking bitchru a fucking horrid I'm like
they know.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
I'm like they smell it on me.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh no, and they're like and then all this seniors
start like chaming take money shot, money shot. So I'm like,
I'm gonna get law and order rescued. Like I am like,
this is how it ends. And also like this is
like two thousand and four, two thousand and five, and
I had read stories before going to camp about like
sexual abuse in locker room, so people get like broomstick
shoved up their ass.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
So I'm like, this is what they're gonna do. This
is how I lose.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
It's like this is it.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Back into a corner and he's like rubbing his own
stomach with like that disgusting gojo thing. I look at
all the freshmen, they're like their eyes are like what,
they don't know what the fuck is going on. But
all these bitches also leave the locker room. So I'm like, okay,
cool friends for life, guys like fuck y'all, and then
he like gets close to me, they're all trending money
shot and then just throws the gojo in my face
(13:41):
and like that was the joke. And so this was
like my introduction into college football was like a pretend
sexual assault. And it's almost like a microcosm for like
the male condition, because I'm like, even if I wasn't
this is so posited homosexual, I would have been scarred
(14:02):
for life. And I always say that I think that
experience like delayed my coming out by.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Like ten years.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Literally, like I was like, okay, all right, Like that
was literally like my first time showering with a group
of men.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So I was just I've talked about it in therapy.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I was definitely scarred, and I am unpacking that at
all times to this day in my existence. Was like,
I think the beauty of being queer is you get
to unpack the parts of yourself that are genuinely you
and the parts of yourself that are conforming to some
idea of what you were supposed to be. And I
think that's the beauty of queer people and that straight
people don't necessarily have to do that or question that.
(14:45):
So I get that whole you know, cluster fuck up
an experience on top of it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I cannot imagine, Like I just can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Like they're statistically there are so.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Many gay men and us. Oh my girl, you're not
fooling anyone.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Oh yeah, to check out my grinder, they're gay. I
got out players. We know. I'm not going to name names,
but like you've tell me the deats.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Did you ever sleep with the teammate?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
No? Oh my god, No.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I didn't so much as kiss a man until I
came out to everybody until like my mom, my dad,
sister of friends. So there was like I mean, there
was a cacophony of gay pornography, but like in terms
of physically being affection with another man, I couldn't cross
that until friend's family and I was publicly out. So
I didn't have a situation of like kissing dudes or
(15:35):
kind of keeping a secret because also just you're living
with other men.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
I also wasn't hiding it that well, let's be real.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
They were like I remember we were like beating Yale
one year and I was on Kickoff return and we
were beating them by like thirty or something, and the
kickoff return is just if people who don't know, it's
like you just basically run full speed to other people.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And I was on the wedge, so.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's basically just like, oh, you get a concussion every
ten minutes, yay. And I realized there was statistically impossible
for them to like win, so I just like ran
off the field and they were like, by what are
you doing to like I w's a w I'm not
getting hurt, like I don't know or like or when
we would like be doing like max lifts, everybody be
(16:18):
like you're let's listen to slip knot and scream and
I was like, I require complete silence, no one speaking,
because I was like, you idiots are fucking barking about
lifting weights and if I have, I have like three
hundred pounds above me and like I see like this
like white dude from New Jersey barking at me, I'm
gonna giggle and like break my own neck.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Yeah. So I was like no.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And also our coach, our slipting coach's name was Coach Steel,
and he always had like a secret workout which is
like you can do the prescribed workout or you can
like do like the coach steel workout. You'd come in
and you see somebody like vomiting or throwing up, and
like everybody else had this thing of like if you
challenge it, you had to do it.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And I was like, no, I choose No. Is that
him on the floor throwing up? Oh? No, thank you?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Why are men so fucking weird?
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Because they just can't be them.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I always think football is just an excuse for men
to like touch you through the butts and hug and
like if you could just do that, if men could
just show physical affection that like was non sexual, I
just think we'd have like less wars. I think so
much of it is men are so pent up and
they don't talk, like Easter race and once. Men are
so bad at conversation, Like they talk, but they don't
(17:28):
have conversations, which is why like men are lonely and don't.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Have good friendships.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And I think like sports is kind of like a
crutch for that, which is also why men are like
so into sports. Like, as someone who's playing college sports,
I could never be like a die hard fan.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, oh my godless deeelers, Like, oh my who gives
a fuck?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
This is like forty millionaires playing for a racist billionaire
and like, great, my city.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
That means nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And I think that attachment to sports teams, that attachment
to players is just like it's a replacement for a
lack of emotional authenticity in their day to day relationships,
whether those be platonic or romantic.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But I'll say this, how did you How did you
know you were gay? Did you always know? Did you
have this moment?
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I mean, I feel like, honestly, this is another moment,
and I'm like, sorry to my father, Steve.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I was watching a Bulls.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Game in like nineteen ninety one and I said one
of the players was cute, and he goes, we don't
say men are cute.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
But this was also nine teeny one. I was five.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
The world was a different place, and I think I've
mentioned this to him before and I think it kind
of like crushed him when we talked about it thirty
years later. But like, I was five and I remember
thinking something is wrong with the way you think. And
that was the first kind of like you didn't have
the language four But I'm like I was queer, and
then it's like, oh, that boy is a nice smile. Oh,
like Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Hey, that's not a normal feeling.
(18:56):
And then like I remember when high school people were like,
Buffy's so hot, and I'm like, no, she hasn't. She's blonde,
she's kind of chic, but like what I have sex
with her like disgusting, thank you. And also just in
those movies, like I always identified with like the female character,
Like when Sarah Michelle Goilla played Catherine cool intentions, I.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Was like, that's me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I hate everything and everyone and I have straight a's,
but I would secretly destroy everyone in this room. So
like I always identified with the female character, or with
like the angry woman who had to like do something.
You know, everybody in a Nancy Meyers film, every woman,
you know, Helen hunting something we gotta give. But like
(19:37):
it was always identifying with the female character. So I
think on a visceral, cellular level, I knew and I
probably wasn't clearly aware of it until I had sex
with a woman and I was like, oh no.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
No, no, no, no, no no no no.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So I am not a gold star by any means,
but I will say that intercourse.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
With females was traumatic that was it.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I think that was like, yeah, this is not for you,
but you know, I'm a don't knock it til you
try it kind of though, And I tried it, and
like what I like French kiss Rihanna to this day, yes,
but like anything below the ways, i'd have to like
you get in there and.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Tag him in.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Where did all like, how did you decide to put
it all together? Because you have lived so many lives
and jobs and you've been in the entertainment space, You've
done the athlete stuff, athletics stuff, like where how did
you find your way in the world after sports deciding
to come out out? Was it like you just dropped
(21:01):
the fucking rope and you were like, this is me
and I'm taking off.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Well.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I think even like for the first couple of years
after college, because I didn't come out to like my
late twenties was like, oh, I thought I went to
Wharton undergrad and I was like, I'm going to be
the black court and get go and make money because
like achievement, and I think for a lot of queer
high achieving people before you come out, you replace that
with like being the best at something because it it
gives you something to distract yourself from. So it's like
(21:25):
like on the tennis court, I was like, I will
die before you can beat me. Like I loved it
to be one hundred and ten degrees and fucking sweltering,
because I was like, I will literally sit here and
watch you convols before I will lose to you, before
I will give you the image that I will lose
to you, because I could often just beat better players
because I was like it just I love tennis because
(21:45):
it's a mental boxing match, and I love it to
this day for that reason. But I was basically I
went and worked at Bloomberg Financial, hated it, hated everything
about banking culture, and then quit and then I ended
up working at Ralph Lauren right like around the time
I came out, and it's I was like, Oh, this
(22:06):
is what it's like to have like eclectic, creative, fun,
cool friends. And it was like they're still my friends
of this day. I was just st a wedding with
them in Palm Springs. But it was like, I realize
now that we were hired in that store for being
kind of like a Benetton version of me and having
the right pedigree because like, to this day, I cannot
fold a sweater. But it was like Blakely Christian, Lawrence
Linton and breckt and we went to like Harvard, Yale, Georgetown,
(22:27):
Brown and Penn and we just like looked the correct
part and we're like creative. And then I think everything
I've done to this day kind of like has been
a conglomer, whether it be working at a fashion company,
working at an agency, in marketing as an MD kind
of like branding campaigns, being an influencer wrangler. I was
in charge of like picking influencers for campaigns and then
like writing out their contracts. So I've been on the
(22:48):
other side of it as well. I just think all
the knowledge I brought from my other lives professionally have
come together to kind of like poke at the veil
of this because I'm going to talk about like what
influencers being flown out to a premiere. I'm like, why
is it always like the same five like white girls
and guys that are straight when they don't have any
insight into the actual film. But I know it's because,
(23:09):
oh it's the pr girl who likes them, or they're
from the same prep school in Connecticut. Like I'm always
feeling back who's making the decision, And I think that's
been helpful, helpful to inform how I look at the
media landscape now and how I present myself in it,
whether that be in social media in the future, in
a podcast January twenty twenty five, and or I guess
(23:31):
now when this comes out.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
And you know, in like TV and film kind of
to a certain.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Extent, Yeah, didn't it just come out? Weren't you acting recent?
Speaker 4 (23:40):
It's offshoot. It's airing now TV in Canada.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
You can find it on Roku, on Apple TV, and
I believe on Amazon. Although I hate you, Daddy Bezos,
I will always hate you, but it was just I
like being creative. It was very funny because I think
in the way I've talked about things in the like,
whether it's becoming friends with like you or Sophia, or
honestly a bunch of actors and actresses that kind of
(24:05):
like we've I guess strangely become friends. But Ryan Reynolds
actually asked me the most probing question, and he was like,
what do you want like in this world? Like what
is your thing that you want to present? What is
your purpose you think? Because we text and I was like,
(24:26):
I'm very black and very gay, and I want the
people that are those things to feel more comfortable being them,
but also the people that are around those things to
feel more comfortable being around them. And whether that's my
personal voice, whether that's a show I produce, like Queer
Sports on Vice, whether that's me acting, whether that's me
producing and writing, I want people to be more comfortable
(24:47):
with a presence like me in the world because I
feel like the more that you are used to me,
the more used to somebody that's gay, that's black, that's
a woman, can be smarter, can be faster, it can
be the person that's telling you what the fuck to do,
and it's not going to sugarcoat it. The less we
have this virulent reaction that we're having in society right now,
because I think that's based on, honestly, the fact that
people are viscerally averse on a cellular level to the
(25:10):
idea of a woman or a woman of color telling them.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
What to do.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Oh my gosh, yes, where they don't even know why.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And I think that's the problem is that all of media,
since you know the emancipacient proclamation or whatever that's slavery,
but or has been telling white men that you are
supposed to inherit the earth. When when somebody says he
looks like a leader, what does leader look like? Why
does leader look like a cis blonde, square john white man?
Does a leader have an opinion? One of the craziest
(25:39):
reactions I got online was when Chris Humminsworth was in
talks to be Prince Charming and I like rolled.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I didn't mean why, I just rolled my eyes out.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I said, like floral's spring, like where, and like I'm
talking more than the things I say about Trump than
the things about politics. The most virulent psychotic reactions wow
from the internet, fuck you should it be a lesbian
black midget. I was like, yes, yes, actually I would
love a trans black midget to play Prince Charming.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
I would love it. Do it, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But like then I realize, like, oh, everyone is their wound.
You are viscerally invested in the idea that charming means
a tall white man because it doesn't say Prince white
and blonde. It says Prince Charming. Anybody can be charming. Shit,
you should play Prince charming. If that's the case, you're
charming as fuck.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Like you know.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But I'm like, oh, people are viscerally invested in this,
and they're invested in it because they don't feel seen.
Because if I'm a white man and everything in media
tells me you're supposed to get a white picket fans
and a wife that loves you and make this money,
and that's not happening.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
And all you see is like me, you and Beyonce
on the TV.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
They're like, fuck these people, and they become wildly attached
to that. And I think, like that was a real
eye opener for me. I was like, oh my god.
I was like this, guys, this is imaginary. This is
an imaginary character.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
That it's like and it's found.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
It's found my way onto the in cell internet, and
I think that's I don't know. I'm always like looking
at why and I'm one of my other things I
always say is everyone is.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Their wound because the back good because the.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Backlash I get isn't about me.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Whereas I'm gonna go and look at like the background
of the popcorn slings of your house or like your
sistic acne were like that, you know. I literally was like,
I hope when I was talking about Dwayne Wade's statue
it wasn't even racial. And someone was like, will you
all fucking look a like fuck you? And I was like,
it just doesn't look like him in the same way
Rinaldo's didn't. But I was like, I was like, I
hope when they do your statue they get your assistic
(27:40):
acne scars right, And they were like, I was like,
how dare you? I was like, if you want to play,
let's play like I'm a scorpio, so like I'm almost
sexually aroused by the idea of an enemy, and if
you give me an excuse to share the unhealed part
of myself with you, then baby, it's game on.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
It's fucking Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Love it like, hurt my feelings, that's actually like my
love language.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
And then I'm going to come back at you.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm going to do research on you, on your father,
on your mother, on your pets, and I'm going to
like blast you. And they never lasted more than one round.
I've never met a quick witted bigot.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Oh that's ever.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Facts never You're like, because you really have opened your
life up to receiving a lot of criticism because you
just fucking say it how it is.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You're not sure, you don't care.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You are just like living your life and your truth
and you're speaking your opinion about all the shitty people
and all the things they're doing wrong, and you expose them.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, so how hard is that now?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
To open your life to this type of criticis because
people always have shit to say. People hate on anyone
doing and being exactly who they are and who they're
meant to be. How do you handle it? Because it
is a dark It's like the dark side of the Internet.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
I think I'm always open to this is them, and
I love a debate.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
So I've had friends being like, well, you have a
bias towards this, or you have a bias towards that,
or you love you know, a skinny, biracial girl in
a campaign.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
I'm like I do. But it's also like, oh, well,
I guess if I'm looking at like.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Zindaiya, Lori har Laura Harrie, and Zoe Kravitz, I'm just
happy that they're black, but they're also a specific version
of a black woman that's also highly acceptable. So I'm like,
that's a conversation I will have. So if you're talking
about me and my biases with non violent language, always
open because I'm an opinion and I am also my
my biases too. But I find that ninety percent of
(29:33):
the stuff I get is like f slur or in slur,
and I'm like, that's lazy and boring and ultimately like
not actually about me. It's like you're just going to
the most. And also like being gay, being black, I
don't view them as pejoratives, so.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's like, oh, you're calling me game black, Yeah, duk,
welcome the dollhouse, fucking idiot, Like okay, what's next.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
So I think, like it's just.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Easy for me to ignore because like you're I firmly
view those things as positive towards my viewpoints. If you're
just saying them in a derogatory way, it's like it's
a rubber blue situation.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
It's just like it's getting old too. It really it's
like exhausting. I will say this, what is it like
because you walk into rooms with a lot of a
list celebrities that you're literally shaming and talking shit about
and exposing what is it like when you walk into
these events and you've had you've literally roasted people on
(30:37):
how do they treat you?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
What tell me a situation?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I need to fucking hear all the juice because like
I can't imagine a Kim Kardashian can handle your energy.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I don't well, see, the thing is like it's been interesting,
but I've always said and I think the thing what
the internet is, like I stand tinto is fucking down
anything I say. I think anything you say on the internet,
she'd be willing to say to someone's face. So if
Kim came up to me, I also believe, like I'm
operating with a parasocial knowledge of you, there are things
you do that are fucking shitty. Would I sit down
(31:09):
with her and be like, why the fuck are you
posting Ivanka Trump teates for the election.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
And I honestly want to hear her answer.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I'm not here to be like you're the devil, because,
like I believe Kim and I don't know her is
just blind ambition, and she's ambition that's kind of insulated
from from criticism because we're not meant to get the
feedback of three hundred million people, So that one keeps
her saying, but two keeps me from hearing things she
needs to hear. So also like she could ignore me,
(31:37):
but it's okay. But also like if she came and said, like,
well I heard that, I'm like, yeah, bitch, I said it. Yeah,
you want to sit down and talk about it?
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
If not, no, I think maybe the weirdest one and
I'll call out full tea on it. Like I met
Troy Savonne briefly at the Wicked premiere, oh recently.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, so like yeah, I think, yeah, I saw Sophia there.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, Like because if they didn't tell her where the
bar was, because I think they had like actors and influencers,
influencers to the goddamn bar immediately, and like I think
some of the actors would have wanted to go there
because it was three hours of like open bar and
meats and cheeses. But like, I know Troy has seen
the things I've said because he's not a natural dancer. Okay,
he's an Australian white man. He clearly his natural thing
(32:16):
is the one and the three. But his dance journey
has been incredible, has been cool, and he's gotten so
much better and him and Dualipa. I feel like a
proud aunt. Every time they like get through an eight
count without falling down, I'm like, you're doing so great
because I know it's not natural to them, and I
appreciate work. And as a child of the Jenna Jackson generation, baby,
(32:37):
if you don't come with fucking popping fresh dance moves,
you're not a pop star. Yeah, so like, and they're
both fucking doing it. But his energy was a little
bit cold. And also this is completely in my head.
He could not know me. He could be tired. But
also I'm like, he also could have seen the things
I say about how he dances and not want to
fuck me right now, which is perfectly okay. But if
(32:58):
he had said, yo, what the fuck, I'd be like,
maybe you can't dan, you can't dat, but your butt,
you're fucking great at it and your your.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Journey has been beautiful and I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
And also if you don't want me to do if
he was like that hurts my feelings, please don't, I'd stop.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Would you?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I would? Because it's like it's I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Not married to making fun of somebody's dancing, or if
it's really like a pinpoint and like some of those
things go viral, then yeah, I don't want to do that,
But in my mind, I'm rooting for you, like an
auntie that talks that real shit towards you. But also
like I am also aware that my entire interpretation of
the situation is in my head. He could have been
tired and not want to fucking talk to anybody, But
(33:39):
I also like you've probably seen the videos. You probably
clocked who it was, and maybe he didn't feel like
talking about it. But all I can do is take
up space, and if anybody has enough of a issue
with me to say something in person open to talking about.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
It, I love it. I figured I just I feel
like there's such big eat.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Like when I walk into rooms with a lot of entertainers,
it's pretty split fifty to fifty. You can tell immediately
the fucking egos, the like literally the ones that are
walking on water and the ones that are like so
present and so willing to have conversation and be normal
because it's such a weird fucking culture in the entertainment space.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
But I think that the people that have like I find,
the people that have a sense of humor about themselves.
I've oddly become like actual acquaintances are friends with Like
literally I talked to Chan and chanting taint him a lot,
but like I will literally if he looks stupid, I'll
he was running one day, he was wearing like a
rucksack and like cornier phones and a whole video.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
I'm like, this man looks stupid.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
He looks like he is married to an ARII he
looks the most caucaaracter I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
And he like.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Literally wrote back like a voice note, just like laughing
about it. So I'm like, I think people that have
a sense of humor about their self image, we've actually
ended up bonding in becoming friends.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Ryan Reynolds is also very funny.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I make funny his pockets because he would like I
was like, I know, your stylist does all this work.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
You got your fucking pocket stuffed like.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
You're a first grader, and like they like I think
people again, people that don't.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Have a serious.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Crazy ego, I find that they're actually like the most famous,
like people that are securing themselves that you know, are
making billion dollar films or like have kind of are
in like quote unquote a list echelon.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
They're the people that will literally.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Laugh and write back while repostings about themselves like you
like a Heidi Clum, a Chanting Tatum, a Ryan Reynolds
like uh, James Marsden. Like when I make fun of
these people, they're like, that's fucking hilarious the joke. But
I think you have to be in on the joke
to have a sustained career for years, because you have
to have gone through the.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Ups and downs.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
And also I think they're realizing that, like I'm talking
about an image of you, not you, and I think
that comes through with my humor. I'm not saying you're
a fucking terrible person. I'm saying your hair looks stupid
that day, or you look lost, or like why are
you eating that?
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Or like you look confused.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
But it's also often that picture is a metaphor for
something larger about society or the way we collectively feel.
So I'm like, I think, yeah, people that like get
the humor of it and get that I'm not saying
you're a shitty person because I didn't like your shorts
that day exactly because your hair looks stupid, But like,
you know, if I'm talking about Trump's cabinet. Then like
come fight me. Yeah, like come see me.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I mean it's I feel like you must be rubbing
off on Sofia because she has just sometimes now she's like,
I'm burning it all to the ground. I'm exposing everyone
who writes me things. I'm just letting it rip. She's
very much so in her fuck around and find out as.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
She should be.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I just don't think we should sit here and be
like a punching bag for someone.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I think this whole thing on the Internet where.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Like, oh, if you're in the public space, you're out
of like call me slurs or say abusive, disgusting, misogynist,
homophobic shit to me, because like I have a platform.
It's like, okay, well, I'm just putting up your picture
with the exact thing you said to me. And if
a lot of people get mad at you about that,
welcome to my world. Because there are hundreds of thousands
(37:11):
to millions of you saying this shit to me, expecting
nothing back in return. And they're like, well, how could
you whiponize your fan base or whatever. I'm a micro
corner of the Internet. I don't have a quarter of
what you know Sophia has going on, but I'm like,
if you want to say some racial shit or some
massogynes or some homophobic shit, and I say, look at
here's a screensht of what you said.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Have out of internet. Yeah, like, welcome to my world, baby,
I'll drag you down to hell with me.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I love it because here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So much of social media has made you right, but
there is such a like I'm the opposite. I have
my comments off. I can't be bothered by what you
think about me. That is your fucking issue.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Not mine.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
And I just don't want to see it. Like I
just don't want to see it. I don't even want
to open that door up anymore to listen to your
trauma projected on me. And what I'll say is we
are queer community. I mean, crisis hotlines right now are
up seven hundred percent. We're so targeted on social media.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
What is your view about it?
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Because it is a really, really scary place when you
don't know yourself, when you are seeking that type of
I want people to like me and understand me, and
I want to be seen, which could be really toxic.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I think that is the value of coming into whatever
I'm coming into at thirty nine years old, is like,
I'm tired. I have my friends in LA that are
my good friends that have been my Like I have
my Lizzies, my Ashley's, my Yasmin's that have known me forever,
and I'm not looking to really, like, you know, make
new friends. So like anybody else I come upon that
(38:54):
is in entertainment, like there's a genuine connection. I always say,
I feel like whether it's again a Sophie or a
Channel or Oriyan or even like a Cynthia, they're internally
driven people. We are driven to make something and to
do something, and we generally connect based on like a
life viewpoint or a viewpoint on art that is agnostic
of the superfluous shit. So well, everybody is kind of
(39:19):
subject to wanting people to like them and wanting outset affirmation.
And I'm not saying I'm not, but I think the
people that I have connected with and the people they
end up like having their phone number or calling your
texting is almost about we would be fucking friends anyway.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Yeah, And I think people.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Who are a public facing any capacity, You're like, I
have people I like and I have people I don't like.
And I think when you connect with somebody you know,
you connect with them on those levels. And I think, again,
whether it's a Sofi year or the other people I've
connected with, it's because we fuck with each other on
like a real personal level.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
And also I just you get to an age which
I am, like, I'm also the same age. So I
just turned thirty nine, and it's just it's such.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
A freeing time.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I'm to live in a space where you've gone through
so many fucking seasons that have shaped you and you're
just like, I don't if I don't need it, I'm
fucking good.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
I keep it pushing.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Exactly like if I don't want to go to dinner
with you one on one, I don't give a shit.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
It's like and it's a it's also nice to have
other people you know, like a like at Wick or
what I'm like, so I know, but it's also like
if I don't want to have.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Like a four hour lunch with you, we just drink
coffee and talk shit about the.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
World, then like that's the value that that has been
the cool part about this is meeting additional people that
fit in that space for me, regardless of what their
outset impact is because most of the people, honestly, friendship
is like just sending weird memes that you think of
towards each other or like this, like if you're like,
if you're comfortable enough with somebody to be like this
dumb thing, then you think of you then like that,
(40:51):
I value so much more than the idea of like
being in a film or writing together or whatever else.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
We'll be right back after this, I.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Ask everyone, And there's this one moment in your life
that really changed it all, that split you wide open,
that made you peel back the layers and really realign.
And I want to know what moment in your life
changed it all? Like what was that path moment, idea, chance, loss?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
What was it for you?
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Hmm ooh, that's very interesting. Is it personally, professionally or both.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
It's up to you. You can do both.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Ooh. I would say personally it was.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I broke up with my first major relationship of the
time on June first of twenty twenty, during like the
blacklack Lives Matter protests, where I just like something like snap,
where we'd been I'd been in like a semi toxic
relationship we weren't getting along really well. But also the
pandemic was a make or break time or like either
found you love that person, you don't like that person.
And I came back and I'd seen kind of like
(42:16):
all this misery in New York, especially death and just
the weird uprising what was happening. And then my boyfriend
sad something crazy out of line, and I was like,
we're done. I was like, I was just like okay,
and he was like, you don't get it.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
We're over. I was like, Okay, pack your shit, go
to Miami, goodbye.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I was like, I'll buy your planetic your cousins and
have them come and get to like I was like
Erica by New call Tyrone, get your shit, goodbye.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
And I think from then it was like, oh, I.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Don't have to deal with the idea of relationship that
I've invested two years with you and learning what I
wouldn't and would and would not take. So now I
have a very clear stake in the ground of how
I want to be treated. And also like I realize
that I'm still looking for a partner, but also in friendships,
I require someone that is not disrespectful even when they
(43:08):
are angry, and I think that is a key through
line in my friendships and the relationships I have when
you are angry and that nobody's perfect, but I need
somebody who like can speak to me with respect, yes,
And I think everyone is deserving of that, And I
think I go through and I think that has become
a through line for me and the way I talk
to other people. What I'm talking about talking a non
violent language, which I'm not always one hundred percent with,
(43:32):
But like I think about even when I'm criticizing, I'm
trying to criticize based on facts. I'm trying to criticize
based on an action that you have taken that I
don't like, because.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
I think there's a nuance in.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I can like you and not like everything you do,
and I think that's a nuance that we've lost with
the Internet. It's like I can disagree with with an outfit, choice,
with a political choice, with and action you have taken
in business and find it and have and criticize it.
But also that doesn't mean I hate you as a person,
(44:07):
which kind almost respected the Kim thing, like I'm just
like I don't like some of her choices, but like
if the bitch slaves on an outphit. Occasionally I'll say
you look good, yeah, because I don't. That's the world
we live in. So I think that moment and that
decision making, in that process of June first, twenty twenty
maybe really be like, okay, cool, what are your boundaries
(44:27):
personally and professionally? And also never treat anyone else the
way this person had treated you.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Perspective twenty twenty five. Ooh right, you make a living.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Off of pop culture, politics, art, fashion. I mean, I'm
scared shitless. I have no fucking idea what's about to happen.
I however, know it will change a lot of the
landscape in our community, our creative ability.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
What what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (45:01):
What are you scared about? What are you feeling? What's
your perspective?
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I mean, as a person that currently makes my money
off of brand deals, I know it's not super trinny
to be black and gay anymore to be outspoken in
any capacity even thinking about Oh, like, I watched documentary
on It's called I Think Buy More on Netflix, and
I'm like, oh, like, Asian name is fucking garbage, But
like Asian Name is paying people out to ask people
that I'm friends with do these campaigns like the Least
(45:27):
Brat Thing Charlie xcx day with this H and M campaign,
because it's disgusting in this bullshit and it's entrapment for
people who are lower income, and also like they are
polluting half of fucking Africa and Asia with their fucking stuff.
But people want to like people, but I get it,
but like, hey, Charlie, like that check is probably for
seven figures, So like, I don't know what I would do,
who knows, But I think it's hard for companies to
(45:49):
come at me when I'm coming at their bullshit a lot.
And we're also dealing with almost like four super companies
now it's like Amazon, Meta, Tesla, Slash x, Yes, and
like whatever else. So I feel like that's probably hard
when people do I'm critical of I'm critical of late
stage capitalism, but I make my money off of selling
things at this point, and that's an economy that I'm
(46:11):
aware of all the time. So I think for twenty
twenty five, I would like to get more into getting
paid for making organic content that is narrative, whether it's
whether it's podcasting, writing, acting, because I think my voice
is interesting and funny and entertaining, and being able to
do that, being able to do that in a semi
(46:31):
consistent manner without having to be actually hawking a product directly.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Hopefully we'll come into fruition.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Well, I feel like you're gonna have an endless amount
of content because these fucking people are absolute clowns.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Oh, it's truly aout every day. I'm like, is this
a joke? Are we really here?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And I'm like, pinch me, we're fucking here, and I
don't see it getting any better.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
And yeah, I mean I'll exactly, I'll have an endless
supply to say, I just hope I will be able
to like pay my rent and get food saying them
even just I feel like I do, even the inflation
we feel now, I'm like, how is everything thirty dollars?
Like if I sit down in a fast casual restaurant,
how did I pay twenty eight bucks for that? When
(47:15):
I feel like we were making jokes about like twenty
dollars salads four years ago, And now I'd be like happy,
happy to get out of a sit down restaurant with
a sub twenty dollar bill.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
It just won't happen.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
It just doesn't happen. I went to speaking. I was like,
how how is this twenty nine bucks? Like sitting here?
Or like God forbid you order it? So you know?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
So true though, I'm trying.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
To figure out how that goes.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
This younger generation I feel bad for I do. I'm like,
you can't buy fucking homes, you can't buy groceries, you
can't buy peace. I mean sure as hell can't buy
that now, at least for people like us. I'm just
like every day I'm waking up and I'm like, am
I in a nightmare? I Am in a fucking nightmare?
What am I gonna do?
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah? It's true, like what are we doing?
Speaker 1 (48:01):
And I'm just hoping I can focus my creativity on
creating some kind of semblance of like financial and personal
peace for myself. I also find a lot of peace
in like Palm Springs because I just went.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
I just went with Sofia.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
It's just like I feel like after I have a
very overstimulating aspect of like la, like whether it's like
the Oscars or something crazy. I go there for like
four to ten days because it's it's like it's metropolitan enough.
It has a cool art museum. There's good shopping, but
it's like looking at mountains. That's the ocean for me
is mountains because I don't fuck with the ocean. That's
like months again, like Megan's Stalleues that's monster soup. That's
(48:40):
their home.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
But like waking up and like seeing a gorgeous sky
and mountains and just kind of like a.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
Vaguely queer community. Every day is like it's a dream.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Peaceful, it is, it is, and you have so many
dimensions about you, and I think in a world that
feels so dark and hopeless, it is really nice to
have your content to give us some joy.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Well, honestly, that's one of the funniest things.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Like I was with my mom in Texas and got
recognized and like and like the mall in like Dallas,
and She's like, I think that was the first time
she realized, like, oh, people know who you are a
little bit, because I was like, yeah, it was in
like an anthropology in like Plano, Texas.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
I honestly, until I met people in person, because it
happens probably maybe like once a week in La, it
was weirdly every day in Paris in London, but people
are like, thank you because you bring me joy and
giggles and like for me, I think because I'm not
seeing that, I see numbers and I see comments. It
feels like I'm just expressing how I feel and it's
Catharthla for me to scream into the abyss and have
(49:45):
those thoughts go into the world. But I think people
have received them as a respite and as a laugh
and as something that makes them feel good when they're
feeling bad, And that honestly was not my intention. It
was not expected. I was just authentically like, here's how
I fucking feel, hopefully, and I think finding other people
feel the same way and it makes them feel better
(50:08):
has been like an unexpected but highly appreciated consequence.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, and I think that's so true. I told you
when you got here today it was so ironic. I'm
in a group chat with a bunch of girls and
they sent one of your breakdowns about Jack and Rose,
and she was like, this is exactly ten out of ten, literally.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
This is how I feel in this moment.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
And we all started because we're all suffering and we're
all finding community in a world that feels very unpredictable,
especially for the queer community, for the black community, Like
there's just so much and I'm raising two black children
and I'm a gay woman.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I'm like, oh, this is really a treat.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
But it is a nice moment of banter of joy
to you connect us in a time that feels so
unpredictable and so heavy. So you do you reach so
many people with the job you choose to do every day,
and I'm grateful for it because you're always in my chat,
You're always in my group chats, and everyone just loves
(51:17):
your personality and what you bring because it is so different.
I don't see anything like it on the internet, which
is probably a great thing for you. It separates you
from the rest of the pack.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Well, I always say I'm happy that like my kind
of like ethos is like there's universality and like specificity.
So like the more specific I am and the more
I can drill down into the exactly the way I'm feeling,
that is my met as my guiding force, Like this
is how this makes me feel, and hopefully someone else
connects with that, like I've I've often had like TikTok
(51:49):
or like Instagram, like here are the transfer creators. Here's this,
And I was like, I don't give up up. I
was like, this is not for me. I'm not going
to dance. I'm not going to use trending something. I
don't care how long or short you think the should be.
I was like, my world is spewing how I feel
the most accurate way possible, with sometimes a layer of
like nineties pop culture laid over it and just shitting
(52:11):
into the world. Yes, yes, and like that is what
I want to do. And if people connect with it,
they do, and if they don't, they don't. And I
feel like, in a strange way, I think because I'm in,
I'm looped in with like influencers. Now they're like, here's
the trend.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
Here's that. I don't care.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
Yeah, I don't give a shit at all, but you're
it's hard.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
And I didn't want to use the word influencer because
to me, you're just you're.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
It's different.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
I think there's a lot of kids out here selling
this bullshit life of women and crashing cars and helicopters, and.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
It's like, how do you have so much money in
like you're.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Twelve, right, what are we taking? What are you wrapping?
In a jacuzzi with a grill on. This is the
content people are consuming. So I do think there's an
obligation in what we put out in the world. And
I think the way you do it, you're so smart
and you're so intentional. Tell me what is next for you,
because I only see bigger, better things, like you should
(53:11):
be writing, you should be acting, you should have your
own show, you should have.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
All the things.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
And I'm speaking this into existence for you because I
do think you're you move different.
Speaker 4 (53:22):
Thank you. I have.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
I have a podcast called Immediately No Coming Out on
Coming on Q one of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
We obviously have to come on, come on. I'm excited
for that.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Offshoots, I really thoroughly enjoyed acting, but I think that's
from like being an athlete, like I'm highly coachable, I
love a team environment, and like I love feedback like bigger, smaller, yes, no, cool,
and like it was really fun and people have said
that I feel I felt natural on it, and I'm like,
for me again, that's almost like a I love that
moment of being on I don't really give a shit
(53:54):
to look at it. I hate looking at it, but
I'm like, oh, you thought it was good. Cool, never
going to see it, that's nice. So I have a
couple of things brewing in the acting department with some
of the people that I've previously mentioned, talking like em
in talks for a couple of roles on like some sitcoms.
I have sent some pitches for like movies out where
(54:15):
I could like, I don't think I'm a cynthiare, but
I think I can make an affable version of myself
from my view points for certain things. I was talking
with Sophia about a sitcom called Am I Crazy? And
I was like, Yo, Sometimes I'm like, like, let's leave
it to the cynthia as with the world to make
like soul piercing art. I just want to be on
(54:35):
NBC for seven seasons, Mike cracking jokes.
Speaker 4 (54:38):
Of people that I like and like sometimes like is
that simple?
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Is that simple? Sometimes it's like joy as revolutionary. So
if I can have like two people on a show
that I like being with every day and have like
you know, CBS pay for it, that's cool. But yeah,
I think acting and writing and podcasting are really going
to be heavy in twenty twenty five. I would also
just like to do a campaign of some sort and
(55:05):
like a real official capacity, like I would like to
be on a billboard in some capacity for clothing. Not
H and M obviously, but like you know, if Savage
Finty wants to call a Potega Venetta, you know he's available.
Call him, call my agent, call my people, have my
people call your people, or I'll just do the call myself.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Well, I look forward to many more dates together hanging out.
I see nothing but great things coming from you, like
you're an entertainer through and through.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
I do think like it's an like it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I don't think everyone has it, and you have the
special sauce. So I hope that for you, and I
have no doubt you're going to be able to do it.
But tell everyone where to actually find you.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
On social you can find me on Blakelee Thornton on
Instagram and TikTok b l A k E l y
t h r N t O N.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
Also I sat on it, thank God. On a media
no pod you.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Can find that as well, and then you can find
me on offshoots on out TV.
Speaker 4 (56:07):
I think we're going to be the next Shit's Creak,
so please watch that.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
So we can leak it to Netflix and then get
that money, and yeah, I'll just be here and queer
and there and everywhere, hopefully in the next few months.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
I love this for you and you deserve it, and
I'm excited to keep you know. I have a front
row seat to watch you do all these things, and
I think you're going to be incredible and I'm excited
for you.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Thank you so much for.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Coming on Wide Open, and we're going to follow you
every step of the way and we're rooting for you.
Speaker 4 (56:36):
Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Thanksving Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's
sports production. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers
are Carmen Borca, Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production
(56:58):
assistance from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Love Loved.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Love. Welcome back everyone to a new episode of Wide
Open with Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This next guest You're gonna absolutely adore. I adore him.
He's funny as hell.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
His social media is some of the best content I've
ever seen.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Watch witnessed.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Blakely introduce yourself to the viewers, to the listeners.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello, everyone, are you?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
What have you?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
What are you doing? Say all the things.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm Blakelee Thornton born in Dallas, Texas. I'm thirty nine
years young. Yehall, We're surviving like everybody else. I think
right now. Professionally, I would call myself a pop culture anthropologist.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
It's primarily on.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Social but kind of expanding to soon like this, the
podcast world and hopefully other aspects of media. And I'm
just kind of professionally poking holes on life. Things are
the way they are right now. That is my current landscape.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You've literally done so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I was reading through everything in your bio and what
led you here, and I was like, what has he
not done?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Is my question? Because you've you've walked so.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Many lives at this point, and you you have done
a lot in fashion and entertainment behind the camera and
now you're in front of it. Yes, now, hell you're acting, honey,
you're doing all these things, and you're really finding your way,
and you're changing the landscape of how we consume content
when it comes to politics, fashion, pop culture.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Like you are leading the charge.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you, thank you, And I can't stop watching your
fucking content. It just like no one's safe. That's the best,
Like no one safe. It's like fuck around and find out.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Truly, truly, truly, truly, it really is. But I think
we need to have that in the culture. Think so
much of the reason we are where we are election
and media and fashion is because people are like scared
to say something because of like a future dollar. And
for me, I think I have the benefit of not
like these people don't pay my bills, so like when
(02:14):
you come in and they do, or if you're on
a network show or you have a radio show, you're
beholden to sponsors. But like I got to come in
through this little thing called social media, like thank you,
Daddy Zuckerberg, even though I kind of hate you half
the time too, and just be like what the fuck
is happening here? And I think what you find is
a lot of times all I'm doing is asking why,
and that's always been in my nature to some as
(02:35):
a child, Like when something is presenting to me, whether
it's music or a music video or an awards ceremony,
I'm like, who is making it? Why do they make
it that way? Even who's reviewing it? Like looking at
movie reviews, like seventy percent of movie reviewers, or like
straight white men, so like that's why, like when women
win Oscars, it's always playing like a hooker or a
slave exactly, yes, because it reaffirms straight white men's place
(02:58):
in the universe.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
So I'm always poking hole in the why of those things.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
For people who don't follow you, which they need to
kind of run them through what you're doing by poking
holes into people's stories.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I think the biggest thing for me is a lot
of people don't interrogate the why, even within themselves, of
why they do what they do. So I think when
we're looking at a commercial or a fashion campaign, I'm like, okay, Like,
if you see a blonde, skinny, straight woman seventy percent
of the time is the fashion face of a Chanel?
Why when you say, okay, she's luxurious? Why Why is
(03:35):
a skinny white woman luxurious to you? What about that
makes it says luxury? Or you're even interrogating, like going
to fashion with in the runways, why are there no
trans people? Why are there no people are different sizes?
Why is there nobody seeing no like Asians on a
runway when they are a huge part of the marketplace.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So I'm just asking, like why things are the way
they are?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And often when you peel back that first layer, it's
not always nefarious, but it kind of reveals people's biases.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yes, and that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Everybody is biased, Like I always kind of say too,
like I'm not objective, and people like you're my news,
I'm not your news. I'm an opinion based yes, And
I always say it's not v line, it's my line,
and that's my line as a cis fairly masculine presenting, queer,
black American like and all those things come with biases,
but I try to be aware of them. And I
(04:25):
think that's the thing is no one is objective, and
if we all realize we're just coming with an opinion,
it would be a much better world.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Let's say, do.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You write everything before when you do your breakdowns?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I usually my process people always say what's the process. Normally, literally,
I wake up around my intrusive thoughts coming around four
forty five in the morning, and I'm like, oh, you're
awake now, yeah, you have an hour told sunrise. And honestly,
the first thing I usually do is good to people
dot Com because I truly believe people dot Com is
a tool of the oppressor.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Oh my god, hello, I have.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Not believed them when they said Blake Shelton was the
sexiest man alive.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
They told on themselves. It's like we're liars.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
But when you look at people dot com, it literally
is like cold case white woman being murdered, some kind
of like wedding drama between women, and then like something
that about Mark Wahlberg, And those are all three things
I'm suspicious of.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, just by nature, so good.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
My process is usually looking at the news and being like,
that's interesting, why is it happening? But when I was little,
my mom, when I used to ask what a word meant,
she'd made me go to like an old school leather
bound book and look it up. And I think what
that did for me is one make me curious and
always being like, what does that word mean?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Go figure? It out.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
It kind of built that kind of habit into me.
And two, it's given me the ability to almost immediately,
in real time, describe exactly how something is making me feel.
And I think if that is what it distills down to,
that is like myquote unquote superpower is I can look
at something and immediately tell you exactly how I feel
(06:06):
about it in almost nanoseconds. So with like fashion, I
have to like look up who or what that took
takes a while. With politics, I have to like make
sure I'm looking at the laws of like what is
the role of the head of the FCC or what
is the role of the attorney general? And then I'm like, oh, okay,
we're fucked in.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Here's why. So that is the that is the look like,
you know, the mind behind the madness, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
But I want to talk about that because I always
start this podcast off because it's called wide open. It's
this ability in sport to seize a moment, to separate
yourself from the pack, to execute. But it's also this
part of life where we've all lived this beautiful journey
(06:55):
to make us and we're exactly who we are because
of the things we've gone through, and you have such
a beautiful interesting story as you know, a black queer
man in America, and you were like very good at sports.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Oh, I love sports. I think sports are a big
part of who I am.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I grew up a competitive tennis player in Texas, which
was like USTA Juniors, like Zach's super Champs, Nationals, et cetera.
And I was considering, like I wanted to go to Stanford.
My goal was to go to Stanford to play college tennis.
And then I realized when I came to turned about
fourteen fifteen that a lot of these kids that go
to Stanford go to these like tennis schools and like
(07:38):
Florida or Austin. I visited one in Austin, as those
kids are sociopass. I was just like they were for
me broken existence.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
I was like, I would like a little bit of
levity in my world, like.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I'm not trying to like, you know, freak out because
I don't make sixteens like sectionals or like nationals or whatever.
And then so I also got a seat in Spanish
my sophomore year, and I still wanted to go to
an IVY league or like high level school. So my
junior year of high school, I started playing football because
I was like, I'm fast, this is easy, I'll do it.
So that was my first football was my junior year.
(08:15):
I ended up getting recruited by like Harvard, Yale, Navy,
which was hilarious. I was never going to maybe that
was never gonna happen, and we ended up going to
University of Pennsylvania to play football. Played all four years.
It was the most homophobic and homo eerotic environment one
(08:36):
could ever be in, all at once, and I hated
every second of it. I think football is modern day slavery.
I don't think it she even exists as a sport.
It's just like getting concussions for public Republican billionaires, or
like exploiting young black men, so like Nick Saban can
make ten million dollars, Fuck you, Nick Saban and Urban
Meyer and the horses you rode in on in your state.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Too good.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
But I was just psychotically competitive, and it was also
just like, I don't know, sports teaches you perseverance. If
I went back, I would not do it again, I
don't think. But it's made me who I am. It's
made me able to kind of almost have an entire
dog dialogue in my brain without someone to back things
off of, because I mean, if you're a closeted homosexual
(09:23):
and college football team, you're not going to basically like,
there's always an awareness of speaking your real feelings about anything,
whether it's like, oh like, yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Britney Spears was hot, guys, or oh, hey.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Like I'm fucking with that new Lady Gaga album so
hard at all times, and like you're aware of that
because there's.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
A level of not being oneself.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So I also think that's kind of maybe who I
am in that I did that for so long that
I refuse to live a fucking second of my life
without like a gel set or a crop top or
wanting to carry a Schnell bag should I so please?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
And the Ralphs because I.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Know the other aspect of that, I feel like I
have no option but to be myself in its entirety
at all times.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
So take me back there.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Everyone asked me this all the time about the difference
between being a queer woman, a queer woman in sports,
and a queer man in sports, and my thing is is, like,
we're so we're all fucking lesbians. I mean, truthfully, it's
just like you're if you're not gay or identify as
somewhat queer, like people are like, are you good, you're
(10:29):
hiding you're are you sure? But in men's sports, you're right.
It's just it's the culture is so fucking toxic.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
It's truly and truly toxic.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And it's so sad because I would assume if you
can't bring your full self to the people you're going
to battle with, because you're right, football is fucking wild.
It is like your brainwashed to suffer and take hits,
and it's like, how is this even okay? And how
is this a sport? But the culture, the locker room
(11:02):
stuff is so toxic and it jeopardized it.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Really, it's a it's.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
An issue, and you can't be your full self. You
can't show up in the way you want to show
up in your life because of this sport and this
idea and this culture. People have an expectation of you
being this tall, sexy, black straight man who is out
(11:28):
here fucking all these women, and you're beautiful and you're
smart and you're all these things like that has to
impact yourself, your inner self at some point, like were
you ever just is this fucking worth it.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
The thing is, even the straight man can't be themselves.
Even the straight men are being muted by toxic masculinity
in that locker room because if you know, if somebody
wants listening to like Michelle Branch, because they just like
Michelle fucking Branch. So it's like nobody in a locker
room is completely themselves except the wildest, probably most misogynistic person.
(12:03):
There is an element of brotherhood in there. But I
always tell this story. Basically, we're going into freshman year camp.
So like I am eighteen years old. We go in
two weeks before school, like kind of like a hard
knocks thing before college football preseason, because I guess they
picked and I'd never showered in a like big room together.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I went to prep school, so we had stalls.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So like I was like, Okay, this is my first
time like being away from home doing this football camp thing,
which I kind of hate anyway, like cause I kind
of didn't even know all the rules. Like college high
school football in Texas is like go hit that person.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I'm athletic.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
They like sent me these like here's the motion, here's
just something I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
So I'm sitting there like I don't know the rules.
Fucking gay all right. So like this.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Second day in camp, we're in the showers and like
this twenty three year old like super seniors like Blakely,
you have a fucking bitchru a fucking horrid I'm like
they know.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
I'm like they smell it on me.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh no, and they're like and then all this seniors
start like chaming take money shot, money shot. So I'm like,
I'm gonna get law and order rescued. Like I am like,
this is how it ends. And also like this is
like two thousand and four, two thousand and five, and
I had read stories before going to camp about like
sexual abuse in locker room, so people get like broomstick
shoved up their ass.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
So I'm like, this is what they're gonna do. This
is how I lose.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
It's like this is it.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Back into a corner and he's like rubbing his own
stomach with like that disgusting gojo thing. I look at
all the freshmen, they're like their eyes are like what,
they don't know what the fuck is going on. But
all these bitches also leave the locker room. So I'm like, okay,
cool friends for life, guys like fuck y'all, and then
he like gets close to me, they're all trending money
shot and then just throws the gojo in my face
(13:41):
and like that was the joke. And so this was
like my introduction into college football was like a pretend
sexual assault. And it's almost like a microcosm for like
the male condition, because I'm like, even if I wasn't
this is so posited homosexual, I would have been scarred
(14:02):
for life. And I always say that I think that
experience like delayed my coming out by.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Like ten years.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Literally, like I was like, okay, all right, Like that
was literally like my first time showering with a group
of men.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So I was just I've talked about it in therapy.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I was definitely scarred, and I am unpacking that at
all times to this day in my existence. Was like,
I think the beauty of being queer is you get
to unpack the parts of yourself that are genuinely you
and the parts of yourself that are conforming to some
idea of what you were supposed to be. And I
think that's the beauty of queer people and that straight
people don't necessarily have to do that or question that.
(14:45):
So I get that whole you know, cluster fuck up
an experience on top of it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I cannot imagine, Like I just can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Like they're statistically there are so.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Many gay men and us. Oh my girl, you're not
fooling anyone.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Oh yeah, to check out my grinder, they're gay. I
got out players. We know. I'm not going to name names,
but like you've tell me the deats.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Did you ever sleep with the teammate?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
No? Oh my god, No.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I didn't so much as kiss a man until I
came out to everybody until like my mom, my dad,
sister of friends. So there was like I mean, there
was a cacophony of gay pornography, but like in terms
of physically being affection with another man, I couldn't cross
that until friend's family and I was publicly out. So
I didn't have a situation of like kissing dudes or
(15:35):
kind of keeping a secret because also just you're living
with other men.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
I also wasn't hiding it that well, let's be real.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
They were like I remember we were like beating Yale
one year and I was on Kickoff return and we
were beating them by like thirty or something, and the
kickoff return is just if people who don't know, it's
like you just basically run full speed to other people.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And I was on the wedge, so.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's basically just like, oh, you get a concussion every
ten minutes, yay. And I realized there was statistically impossible
for them to like win, so I just like ran
off the field and they were like, by what are
you doing to like I w's a w I'm not
getting hurt, like I don't know or like or when
we would like be doing like max lifts, everybody be
(16:18):
like you're let's listen to slip knot and scream and
I was like, I require complete silence, no one speaking,
because I was like, you idiots are fucking barking about
lifting weights and if I have, I have like three
hundred pounds above me and like I see like this
like white dude from New Jersey barking at me, I'm
gonna giggle and like break my own neck.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Yeah. So I was like no.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And also our coach, our slipting coach's name was Coach Steel,
and he always had like a secret workout which is
like you can do the prescribed workout or you can
like do like the coach steel workout. You'd come in
and you see somebody like vomiting or throwing up, and
like everybody else had this thing of like if you
challenge it, you had to do it.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And I was like, no, I choose No. Is that
him on the floor throwing up? Oh? No, thank you?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Why are men so fucking weird?
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Because they just can't be them.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I always think football is just an excuse for men
to like touch you through the butts and hug and
like if you could just do that, if men could
just show physical affection that like was non sexual, I
just think we'd have like less wars. I think so
much of it is men are so pent up and
they don't talk, like Easter race and once. Men are
so bad at conversation, Like they talk, but they don't
(17:28):
have conversations, which is why like men are lonely and don't.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Have good friendships.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And I think like sports is kind of like a
crutch for that, which is also why men are like
so into sports. Like, as someone who's playing college sports,
I could never be like a die hard fan.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, oh my godless deeelers, Like, oh my who gives
a fuck?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
This is like forty millionaires playing for a racist billionaire
and like, great, my city.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
That means nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And I think that attachment to sports teams, that attachment
to players is just like it's a replacement for a
lack of emotional authenticity in their day to day relationships,
whether those be platonic or romantic.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But I'll say this, how did you How did you
know you were gay? Did you always know? Did you
have this moment?
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I mean, I feel like, honestly, this is another moment,
and I'm like, sorry to my father, Steve.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I was watching a Bulls.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Game in like nineteen ninety one and I said one
of the players was cute, and he goes, we don't
say men are cute.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
But this was also nine teeny one. I was five.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
The world was a different place, and I think I've
mentioned this to him before and I think it kind
of like crushed him when we talked about it thirty
years later. But like, I was five and I remember
thinking something is wrong with the way you think. And
that was the first kind of like you didn't have
the language four But I'm like I was queer, and
then it's like, oh, that boy is a nice smile. Oh,
like Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Hey, that's not a normal feeling.
(18:56):
And then like I remember when high school people were like,
Buffy's so hot, and I'm like, no, she hasn't. She's blonde,
she's kind of chic, but like what I have sex
with her like disgusting, thank you. And also just in
those movies, like I always identified with like the female character,
Like when Sarah Michelle Goilla played Catherine cool intentions, I.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Was like, that's me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I hate everything and everyone and I have straight a's,
but I would secretly destroy everyone in this room. So
like I always identified with the female character, or with
like the angry woman who had to like do something.
You know, everybody in a Nancy Meyers film, every woman,
you know, Helen hunting something we gotta give. But like
(19:37):
it was always identifying with the female character. So I
think on a visceral, cellular level, I knew and I
probably wasn't clearly aware of it until I had sex
with a woman and I was like, oh no.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
No, no, no, no, no no no no.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So I am not a gold star by any means,
but I will say that intercourse.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
With females was traumatic that was it.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I think that was like, yeah, this is not for you,
but you know, I'm a don't knock it til you
try it kind of though, And I tried it, and
like what I like French kiss Rihanna to this day, yes,
but like anything below the ways, i'd have to like
you get in there and.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Tag him in.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Where did all like, how did you decide to put
it all together? Because you have lived so many lives
and jobs and you've been in the entertainment space, You've
done the athlete stuff, athletics stuff, like where how did
you find your way in the world after sports deciding
to come out out? Was it like you just dropped
(21:01):
the fucking rope and you were like, this is me
and I'm taking off.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Well.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I think even like for the first couple of years
after college, because I didn't come out to like my
late twenties was like, oh, I thought I went to
Wharton undergrad and I was like, I'm going to be
the black court and get go and make money because
like achievement, and I think for a lot of queer
high achieving people before you come out, you replace that
with like being the best at something because it it
gives you something to distract yourself from. So it's like
(21:25):
like on the tennis court, I was like, I will
die before you can beat me. Like I loved it
to be one hundred and ten degrees and fucking sweltering,
because I was like, I will literally sit here and
watch you convols before I will lose to you, before
I will give you the image that I will lose
to you, because I could often just beat better players
because I was like it just I love tennis because
(21:45):
it's a mental boxing match, and I love it to
this day for that reason. But I was basically I
went and worked at Bloomberg Financial, hated it, hated everything
about banking culture, and then quit and then I ended
up working at Ralph Lauren right like around the time
I came out, and it's I was like, Oh, this
(22:06):
is what it's like to have like eclectic, creative, fun,
cool friends. And it was like they're still my friends
of this day. I was just st a wedding with
them in Palm Springs. But it was like, I realize
now that we were hired in that store for being
kind of like a Benetton version of me and having
the right pedigree because like, to this day, I cannot
fold a sweater. But it was like Blakely Christian, Lawrence
Linton and breckt and we went to like Harvard, Yale, Georgetown,
(22:27):
Brown and Penn and we just like looked the correct
part and we're like creative. And then I think everything
I've done to this day kind of like has been
a conglomer, whether it be working at a fashion company,
working at an agency, in marketing as an MD kind
of like branding campaigns, being an influencer wrangler. I was
in charge of like picking influencers for campaigns and then
like writing out their contracts. So I've been on the
(22:48):
other side of it as well. I just think all
the knowledge I brought from my other lives professionally have
come together to kind of like poke at the veil
of this because I'm going to talk about like what
influencers being flown out to a premiere. I'm like, why
is it always like the same five like white girls
and guys that are straight when they don't have any
insight into the actual film. But I know it's because,
(23:09):
oh it's the pr girl who likes them, or they're
from the same prep school in Connecticut. Like I'm always
feeling back who's making the decision, And I think that's
been helpful, helpful to inform how I look at the
media landscape now and how I present myself in it,
whether that be in social media in the future, in
a podcast January twenty twenty five, and or I guess
(23:31):
now when this comes out.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
And you know, in like TV and film kind of
to a certain.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Extent, Yeah, didn't it just come out? Weren't you acting recent?
Speaker 4 (23:40):
It's offshoot. It's airing now TV in Canada.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
You can find it on Roku, on Apple TV, and
I believe on Amazon. Although I hate you, Daddy Bezos,
I will always hate you, but it was just I
like being creative. It was very funny because I think
in the way I've talked about things in the like,
whether it's becoming friends with like you or Sophia, or
honestly a bunch of actors and actresses that kind of
(24:05):
like we've I guess strangely become friends. But Ryan Reynolds
actually asked me the most probing question, and he was like,
what do you want like in this world? Like what
is your thing that you want to present? What is
your purpose you think? Because we text and I was like,
(24:26):
I'm very black and very gay, and I want the
people that are those things to feel more comfortable being them,
but also the people that are around those things to
feel more comfortable being around them. And whether that's my
personal voice, whether that's a show I produce, like Queer
Sports on Vice, whether that's me acting, whether that's me
producing and writing, I want people to be more comfortable
(24:47):
with a presence like me in the world because I
feel like the more that you are used to me,
the more used to somebody that's gay, that's black, that's
a woman, can be smarter, can be faster, it can
be the person that's telling you what the fuck to do,
and it's not going to sugarcoat it. The less we
have this virulent reaction that we're having in society right now,
because I think that's based on, honestly, the fact that
people are viscerally averse on a cellular level to the
(25:10):
idea of a woman or a woman of color telling them.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
What to do.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Oh my gosh, yes, where they don't even know why.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And I think that's the problem is that all of media,
since you know the emancipacient proclamation or whatever that's slavery,
but or has been telling white men that you are
supposed to inherit the earth. When when somebody says he
looks like a leader, what does leader look like? Why
does leader look like a cis blonde, square john white man?
Does a leader have an opinion? One of the craziest
(25:39):
reactions I got online was when Chris Humminsworth was in
talks to be Prince Charming and I like rolled.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I didn't mean why, I just rolled my eyes out.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I said, like floral's spring, like where, and like I'm
talking more than the things I say about Trump than
the things about politics. The most virulent psychotic reactions wow
from the internet, fuck you should it be a lesbian
black midget. I was like, yes, yes, actually I would
love a trans black midget to play Prince Charming.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
I would love it. Do it, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But like then I realize, like, oh, everyone is their wound.
You are viscerally invested in the idea that charming means
a tall white man because it doesn't say Prince white
and blonde. It says Prince Charming. Anybody can be charming. Shit,
you should play Prince charming. If that's the case, you're
charming as fuck.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Like you know.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But I'm like, oh, people are viscerally invested in this,
and they're invested in it because they don't feel seen.
Because if I'm a white man and everything in media
tells me you're supposed to get a white picket fans
and a wife that loves you and make this money,
and that's not happening.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
And all you see is like me, you and Beyonce
on the TV.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
They're like, fuck these people, and they become wildly attached
to that. And I think, like that was a real
eye opener for me. I was like, oh my god.
I was like this, guys, this is imaginary. This is
an imaginary character.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
That it's like and it's found.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
It's found my way onto the in cell internet, and
I think that's I don't know. I'm always like looking
at why and I'm one of my other things I
always say is everyone is.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Their wound because the back good because the.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Backlash I get isn't about me.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Whereas I'm gonna go and look at like the background
of the popcorn slings of your house or like your
sistic acne were like that, you know. I literally was like,
I hope when I was talking about Dwayne Wade's statue
it wasn't even racial. And someone was like, will you
all fucking look a like fuck you? And I was like,
it just doesn't look like him in the same way
Rinaldo's didn't. But I was like, I was like, I
hope when they do your statue they get your assistic
(27:40):
acne scars right, And they were like, I was like,
how dare you? I was like, if you want to play,
let's play like I'm a scorpio, so like I'm almost
sexually aroused by the idea of an enemy, and if
you give me an excuse to share the unhealed part
of myself with you, then baby, it's game on.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
It's fucking Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Love it like, hurt my feelings, that's actually like my
love language.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
And then I'm going to come back at you.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm going to do research on you, on your father,
on your mother, on your pets, and I'm going to
like blast you. And they never lasted more than one round.
I've never met a quick witted bigot.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Oh that's ever.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Facts never You're like, because you really have opened your
life up to receiving a lot of criticism because you
just fucking say it how it is.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You're not sure, you don't care.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You are just like living your life and your truth
and you're speaking your opinion about all the shitty people
and all the things they're doing wrong, and you expose them.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, so how hard is that now?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
To open your life to this type of criticis because
people always have shit to say. People hate on anyone
doing and being exactly who they are and who they're
meant to be. How do you handle it? Because it
is a dark It's like the dark side of the Internet.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
I think I'm always open to this is them, and
I love a debate.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
So I've had friends being like, well, you have a
bias towards this, or you have a bias towards that,
or you love you know, a skinny, biracial girl in
a campaign.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
I'm like I do. But it's also like, oh, well,
I guess if I'm looking at like.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Zindaiya, Lori har Laura Harrie, and Zoe Kravitz, I'm just
happy that they're black, but they're also a specific version
of a black woman that's also highly acceptable. So I'm like,
that's a conversation I will have. So if you're talking
about me and my biases with non violent language, always
open because I'm an opinion and I am also my
my biases too. But I find that ninety percent of
(29:33):
the stuff I get is like f slur or in slur,
and I'm like, that's lazy and boring and ultimately like
not actually about me. It's like you're just going to
the most. And also like being gay, being black, I
don't view them as pejoratives, so.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's like, oh, you're calling me game black, Yeah, duk,
welcome the dollhouse, fucking idiot, Like okay, what's next.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
So I think, like it's just.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Easy for me to ignore because like you're I firmly
view those things as positive towards my viewpoints. If you're
just saying them in a derogatory way, it's like it's
a rubber blue situation.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
It's just like it's getting old too. It really it's
like exhausting. I will say this, what is it like
because you walk into rooms with a lot of a
list celebrities that you're literally shaming and talking shit about
and exposing what is it like when you walk into
these events and you've had you've literally roasted people on
(30:37):
how do they treat you?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
What tell me a situation?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I need to fucking hear all the juice because like
I can't imagine a Kim Kardashian can handle your energy.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I don't well, see, the thing is like it's been interesting,
but I've always said and I think the thing what
the internet is, like I stand tinto is fucking down
anything I say. I think anything you say on the internet,
she'd be willing to say to someone's face. So if
Kim came up to me, I also believe, like I'm
operating with a parasocial knowledge of you, there are things
you do that are fucking shitty. Would I sit down
(31:09):
with her and be like, why the fuck are you
posting Ivanka Trump teates for the election.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
And I honestly want to hear her answer.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I'm not here to be like you're the devil, because,
like I believe Kim and I don't know her is
just blind ambition, and she's ambition that's kind of insulated
from from criticism because we're not meant to get the
feedback of three hundred million people, So that one keeps
her saying, but two keeps me from hearing things she
needs to hear. So also like she could ignore me,
(31:37):
but it's okay. But also like if she came and said, like,
well I heard that, I'm like, yeah, bitch, I said it. Yeah,
you want to sit down and talk about it?
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
If not, no, I think maybe the weirdest one and
I'll call out full tea on it. Like I met
Troy Savonne briefly at the Wicked premiere, oh recently.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, so like yeah, I think, yeah, I saw Sophia there.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, Like because if they didn't tell her where the
bar was, because I think they had like actors and influencers,
influencers to the goddamn bar immediately, and like I think
some of the actors would have wanted to go there
because it was three hours of like open bar and
meats and cheeses. But like, I know Troy has seen
the things I've said because he's not a natural dancer. Okay,
he's an Australian white man. He clearly his natural thing
(32:16):
is the one and the three. But his dance journey
has been incredible, has been cool, and he's gotten so
much better and him and Dualipa. I feel like a
proud aunt. Every time they like get through an eight
count without falling down, I'm like, you're doing so great
because I know it's not natural to them, and I
appreciate work. And as a child of the Jenna Jackson generation, baby,
(32:37):
if you don't come with fucking popping fresh dance moves,
you're not a pop star. Yeah, so like, and they're
both fucking doing it. But his energy was a little
bit cold. And also this is completely in my head.
He could not know me. He could be tired. But
also I'm like, he also could have seen the things
I say about how he dances and not want to
fuck me right now, which is perfectly okay. But if
(32:58):
he had said, yo, what the fuck, I'd be like,
maybe you can't dan, you can't dat, but your butt,
you're fucking great at it and your your.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Journey has been beautiful and I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
And also if you don't want me to do if
he was like that hurts my feelings, please don't, I'd stop.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Would you?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I would? Because it's like it's I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Not married to making fun of somebody's dancing, or if
it's really like a pinpoint and like some of those
things go viral, then yeah, I don't want to do that,
But in my mind, I'm rooting for you, like an
auntie that talks that real shit towards you. But also
like I am also aware that my entire interpretation of
the situation is in my head. He could have been
tired and not want to fucking talk to anybody, But
(33:39):
I also like you've probably seen the videos. You probably
clocked who it was, and maybe he didn't feel like
talking about it. But all I can do is take
up space, and if anybody has enough of a issue
with me to say something in person open to talking about.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
It, I love it. I figured I just I feel
like there's such big eat.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Like when I walk into rooms with a lot of entertainers,
it's pretty split fifty to fifty. You can tell immediately
the fucking egos, the like literally the ones that are
walking on water and the ones that are like so
present and so willing to have conversation and be normal
because it's such a weird fucking culture in the entertainment space.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
But I think that the people that have like I find,
the people that have a sense of humor about themselves.
I've oddly become like actual acquaintances are friends with Like
literally I talked to Chan and chanting taint him a lot,
but like I will literally if he looks stupid, I'll
he was running one day, he was wearing like a
rucksack and like cornier phones and a whole video.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
I'm like, this man looks stupid.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
He looks like he is married to an ARII he
looks the most caucaaracter I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
And he like.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Literally wrote back like a voice note, just like laughing
about it. So I'm like, I think people that have
a sense of humor about their self image, we've actually
ended up bonding in becoming friends.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Ryan Reynolds is also very funny.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I make funny his pockets because he would like I
was like, I know, your stylist does all this work.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
You got your fucking pocket stuffed like.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
You're a first grader, and like they like I think
people again, people that don't.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Have a serious.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Crazy ego, I find that they're actually like the most famous,
like people that are securing themselves that you know, are
making billion dollar films or like have kind of are
in like quote unquote a list echelon.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
They're the people that will literally.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Laugh and write back while repostings about themselves like you
like a Heidi Clum, a Chanting Tatum, a Ryan Reynolds
like uh, James Marsden. Like when I make fun of
these people, they're like, that's fucking hilarious the joke. But
I think you have to be in on the joke
to have a sustained career for years, because you have
to have gone through the.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Ups and downs.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
And also I think they're realizing that, like I'm talking
about an image of you, not you, and I think
that comes through with my humor. I'm not saying you're
a fucking terrible person. I'm saying your hair looks stupid
that day, or you look lost, or like why are
you eating that?
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Or like you look confused.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
But it's also often that picture is a metaphor for
something larger about society or the way we collectively feel.
So I'm like, I think, yeah, people that like get
the humor of it and get that I'm not saying
you're a shitty person because I didn't like your shorts
that day exactly because your hair looks stupid, But like,
you know, if I'm talking about Trump's cabinet. Then like
come fight me. Yeah, like come see me.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I mean it's I feel like you must be rubbing
off on Sofia because she has just sometimes now she's like,
I'm burning it all to the ground. I'm exposing everyone
who writes me things. I'm just letting it rip. She's
very much so in her fuck around and find out as.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
She should be.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I just don't think we should sit here and be
like a punching bag for someone.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I think this whole thing on the Internet where.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Like, oh, if you're in the public space, you're out
of like call me slurs or say abusive, disgusting, misogynist,
homophobic shit to me, because like I have a platform.
It's like, okay, well, I'm just putting up your picture
with the exact thing you said to me. And if
a lot of people get mad at you about that,
welcome to my world. Because there are hundreds of thousands
(37:11):
to millions of you saying this shit to me, expecting
nothing back in return. And they're like, well, how could
you whiponize your fan base or whatever. I'm a micro
corner of the Internet. I don't have a quarter of
what you know Sophia has going on, but I'm like,
if you want to say some racial shit or some
massogynes or some homophobic shit, and I say, look at
here's a screensht of what you said.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Have out of internet. Yeah, like, welcome to my world, baby,
I'll drag you down to hell with me.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I love it because here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So much of social media has made you right, but
there is such a like I'm the opposite. I have
my comments off. I can't be bothered by what you
think about me. That is your fucking issue.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Not mine.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
And I just don't want to see it. Like I
just don't want to see it. I don't even want
to open that door up anymore to listen to your
trauma projected on me. And what I'll say is we
are queer community. I mean, crisis hotlines right now are
up seven hundred percent. We're so targeted on social media.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
What is your view about it?
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Because it is a really, really scary place when you
don't know yourself, when you are seeking that type of
I want people to like me and understand me, and
I want to be seen, which could be really toxic.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I think that is the value of coming into whatever
I'm coming into at thirty nine years old, is like,
I'm tired. I have my friends in LA that are
my good friends that have been my Like I have
my Lizzies, my Ashley's, my Yasmin's that have known me forever,
and I'm not looking to really, like, you know, make
new friends. So like anybody else I come upon that
(38:54):
is in entertainment, like there's a genuine connection. I always say,
I feel like whether it's again a Sophie or a
Channel or Oriyan or even like a Cynthia, they're internally
driven people. We are driven to make something and to
do something, and we generally connect based on like a
life viewpoint or a viewpoint on art that is agnostic
of the superfluous shit. So well, everybody is kind of
(39:19):
subject to wanting people to like them and wanting outset affirmation.
And I'm not saying I'm not, but I think the
people that I have connected with and the people they
end up like having their phone number or calling your
texting is almost about we would be fucking friends anyway.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Yeah, And I think people.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Who are a public facing any capacity, You're like, I
have people I like and I have people I don't like.
And I think when you connect with somebody you know,
you connect with them on those levels. And I think, again,
whether it's a Sofi year or the other people I've
connected with, it's because we fuck with each other on
like a real personal level.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
And also I just you get to an age which
I am, like, I'm also the same age. So I
just turned thirty nine, and it's just it's such.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
A freeing time.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I'm to live in a space where you've gone through
so many fucking seasons that have shaped you and you're
just like, I don't if I don't need it, I'm
fucking good.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
I keep it pushing.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Exactly like if I don't want to go to dinner
with you one on one, I don't give a shit.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
It's like and it's a it's also nice to have
other people you know, like a like at Wick or
what I'm like, so I know, but it's also like
if I don't want to have.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Like a four hour lunch with you, we just drink
coffee and talk shit about the.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
World, then like that's the value that that has been
the cool part about this is meeting additional people that
fit in that space for me, regardless of what their
outset impact is because most of the people, honestly, friendship
is like just sending weird memes that you think of
towards each other or like this, like if you're like,
if you're comfortable enough with somebody to be like this
dumb thing, then you think of you then like that,
(40:51):
I value so much more than the idea of like
being in a film or writing together or whatever else.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
We'll be right back after this, I.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Ask everyone, And there's this one moment in your life
that really changed it all, that split you wide open,
that made you peel back the layers and really realign.
And I want to know what moment in your life
changed it all? Like what was that path moment, idea, chance, loss?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
What was it for you?
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Hmm ooh, that's very interesting. Is it personally, professionally or both.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
It's up to you. You can do both.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Ooh. I would say personally it was.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I broke up with my first major relationship of the
time on June first of twenty twenty, during like the
blacklack Lives Matter protests, where I just like something like snap,
where we'd been I'd been in like a semi toxic
relationship we weren't getting along really well. But also the
pandemic was a make or break time or like either
found you love that person, you don't like that person.
And I came back and I'd seen kind of like
(42:16):
all this misery in New York, especially death and just
the weird uprising what was happening. And then my boyfriend
sad something crazy out of line, and I was like,
we're done. I was like, I was just like okay,
and he was like, you don't get it.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
We're over. I was like, Okay, pack your shit, go
to Miami, goodbye.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I was like, I'll buy your planetic your cousins and
have them come and get to like I was like
Erica by New call Tyrone, get your shit, goodbye.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
And I think from then it was like, oh, I.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Don't have to deal with the idea of relationship that
I've invested two years with you and learning what I
wouldn't and would and would not take. So now I
have a very clear stake in the ground of how
I want to be treated. And also like I realize
that I'm still looking for a partner, but also in friendships,
I require someone that is not disrespectful even when they
(43:08):
are angry, and I think that is a key through
line in my friendships and the relationships I have when
you are angry and that nobody's perfect, but I need
somebody who like can speak to me with respect, yes,
And I think everyone is deserving of that, And I
think I go through and I think that has become
a through line for me and the way I talk
to other people. What I'm talking about talking a non
violent language, which I'm not always one hundred percent with,
(43:32):
But like I think about even when I'm criticizing, I'm
trying to criticize based on facts. I'm trying to criticize
based on an action that you have taken that I
don't like, because.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
I think there's a nuance in.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I can like you and not like everything you do,
and I think that's a nuance that we've lost with
the Internet. It's like I can disagree with with an outfit, choice,
with a political choice, with and action you have taken
in business and find it and have and criticize it.
But also that doesn't mean I hate you as a person,
(44:07):
which kind almost respected the Kim thing, like I'm just
like I don't like some of her choices, but like
if the bitch slaves on an outphit. Occasionally I'll say
you look good, yeah, because I don't. That's the world
we live in. So I think that moment and that
decision making, in that process of June first, twenty twenty
maybe really be like, okay, cool, what are your boundaries
(44:27):
personally and professionally? And also never treat anyone else the
way this person had treated you.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Perspective twenty twenty five. Ooh right, you make a living.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Off of pop culture, politics, art, fashion. I mean, I'm
scared shitless. I have no fucking idea what's about to happen.
I however, know it will change a lot of the
landscape in our community, our creative ability.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
What what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (45:01):
What are you scared about? What are you feeling? What's
your perspective?
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I mean, as a person that currently makes my money
off of brand deals, I know it's not super trinny
to be black and gay anymore to be outspoken in
any capacity even thinking about Oh, like, I watched documentary
on It's called I Think Buy More on Netflix, and
I'm like, oh, like, Asian name is fucking garbage, But
like Asian Name is paying people out to ask people
that I'm friends with do these campaigns like the Least
(45:27):
Brat Thing Charlie xcx day with this H and M campaign,
because it's disgusting in this bullshit and it's entrapment for
people who are lower income, and also like they are
polluting half of fucking Africa and Asia with their fucking stuff.
But people want to like people, but I get it,
but like, hey, Charlie, like that check is probably for
seven figures, So like, I don't know what I would do,
who knows, But I think it's hard for companies to
(45:49):
come at me when I'm coming at their bullshit a lot.
And we're also dealing with almost like four super companies
now it's like Amazon, Meta, Tesla, Slash x, Yes, and
like whatever else. So I feel like that's probably hard
when people do I'm critical of I'm critical of late
stage capitalism, but I make my money off of selling
things at this point, and that's an economy that I'm
(46:11):
aware of all the time. So I think for twenty
twenty five, I would like to get more into getting
paid for making organic content that is narrative, whether it's
whether it's podcasting, writing, acting, because I think my voice
is interesting and funny and entertaining, and being able to
do that, being able to do that in a semi
(46:31):
consistent manner without having to be actually hawking a product directly.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Hopefully we'll come into fruition.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Well, I feel like you're gonna have an endless amount
of content because these fucking people are absolute clowns.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Oh, it's truly aout every day. I'm like, is this
a joke? Are we really here?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And I'm like, pinch me, we're fucking here, and I
don't see it getting any better.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
And yeah, I mean I'll exactly, I'll have an endless
supply to say, I just hope I will be able
to like pay my rent and get food saying them
even just I feel like I do, even the inflation
we feel now, I'm like, how is everything thirty dollars?
Like if I sit down in a fast casual restaurant,
how did I pay twenty eight bucks for that? When
(47:15):
I feel like we were making jokes about like twenty
dollars salads four years ago, And now I'd be like happy,
happy to get out of a sit down restaurant with
a sub twenty dollar bill.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
It just won't happen.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
It just doesn't happen. I went to speaking. I was like,
how how is this twenty nine bucks? Like sitting here?
Or like God forbid you order it? So you know?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
So true though, I'm trying.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
To figure out how that goes.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
This younger generation I feel bad for I do. I'm like,
you can't buy fucking homes, you can't buy groceries, you
can't buy peace. I mean sure as hell can't buy
that now, at least for people like us. I'm just
like every day I'm waking up and I'm like, am
I in a nightmare? I Am in a fucking nightmare?
What am I gonna do?
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah? It's true, like what are we doing?
Speaker 1 (48:01):
And I'm just hoping I can focus my creativity on
creating some kind of semblance of like financial and personal
peace for myself. I also find a lot of peace
in like Palm Springs because I just went.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
I just went with Sofia.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
It's just like I feel like after I have a
very overstimulating aspect of like la, like whether it's like
the Oscars or something crazy. I go there for like
four to ten days because it's it's like it's metropolitan enough.
It has a cool art museum. There's good shopping, but
it's like looking at mountains. That's the ocean for me
is mountains because I don't fuck with the ocean. That's
like months again, like Megan's Stalleues that's monster soup. That's
(48:40):
their home.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
But like waking up and like seeing a gorgeous sky
and mountains and just kind of like a.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
Vaguely queer community. Every day is like it's a dream.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Peaceful, it is, it is, and you have so many
dimensions about you, and I think in a world that
feels so dark and hopeless, it is really nice to
have your content to give us some joy.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Well, honestly, that's one of the funniest things.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Like I was with my mom in Texas and got
recognized and like and like the mall in like Dallas,
and She's like, I think that was the first time
she realized, like, oh, people know who you are a
little bit, because I was like, yeah, it was in
like an anthropology in like Plano, Texas.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
I honestly, until I met people in person, because it
happens probably maybe like once a week in La, it
was weirdly every day in Paris in London, but people
are like, thank you because you bring me joy and
giggles and like for me, I think because I'm not
seeing that, I see numbers and I see comments. It
feels like I'm just expressing how I feel and it's
Catharthla for me to scream into the abyss and have
(49:45):
those thoughts go into the world. But I think people
have received them as a respite and as a laugh
and as something that makes them feel good when they're
feeling bad, And that honestly was not my intention. It
was not expected. I was just authentically like, here's how
I fucking feel, hopefully, and I think finding other people
feel the same way and it makes them feel better
(50:08):
has been like an unexpected but highly appreciated consequence.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, and I think that's so true. I told you
when you got here today it was so ironic. I'm
in a group chat with a bunch of girls and
they sent one of your breakdowns about Jack and Rose,
and she was like, this is exactly ten out of ten, literally.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
This is how I feel in this moment.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
And we all started because we're all suffering and we're
all finding community in a world that feels very unpredictable,
especially for the queer community, for the black community, Like
there's just so much and I'm raising two black children
and I'm a gay woman.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I'm like, oh, this is really a treat.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
But it is a nice moment of banter of joy
to you connect us in a time that feels so
unpredictable and so heavy. So you do you reach so
many people with the job you choose to do every day,
and I'm grateful for it because you're always in my chat,
You're always in my group chats, and everyone just loves
(51:17):
your personality and what you bring because it is so different.
I don't see anything like it on the internet, which
is probably a great thing for you. It separates you
from the rest of the pack.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Well, I always say I'm happy that like my kind
of like ethos is like there's universality and like specificity.
So like the more specific I am and the more
I can drill down into the exactly the way I'm feeling,
that is my met as my guiding force, Like this
is how this makes me feel, and hopefully someone else
connects with that, like I've I've often had like TikTok
(51:49):
or like Instagram, like here are the transfer creators. Here's this,
And I was like, I don't give up up. I
was like, this is not for me. I'm not going
to dance. I'm not going to use trending something. I
don't care how long or short you think the should be.
I was like, my world is spewing how I feel
the most accurate way possible, with sometimes a layer of
like nineties pop culture laid over it and just shitting
(52:11):
into the world. Yes, yes, and like that is what
I want to do. And if people connect with it,
they do, and if they don't, they don't. And I
feel like, in a strange way, I think because I'm in,
I'm looped in with like influencers. Now they're like, here's
the trend.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
Here's that. I don't care.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
Yeah, I don't give a shit at all, but you're
it's hard.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
And I didn't want to use the word influencer because
to me, you're just you're.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
It's different.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
I think there's a lot of kids out here selling
this bullshit life of women and crashing cars and helicopters, and.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
It's like, how do you have so much money in
like you're.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Twelve, right, what are we taking? What are you wrapping?
In a jacuzzi with a grill on. This is the
content people are consuming. So I do think there's an
obligation in what we put out in the world. And
I think the way you do it, you're so smart
and you're so intentional. Tell me what is next for you,
because I only see bigger, better things, like you should
(53:11):
be writing, you should be acting, you should have your
own show, you should have.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
All the things.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
And I'm speaking this into existence for you because I
do think you're you move different.
Speaker 4 (53:22):
Thank you. I have.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
I have a podcast called Immediately No Coming Out on
Coming on Q one of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
We obviously have to come on, come on. I'm excited
for that.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Offshoots, I really thoroughly enjoyed acting, but I think that's
from like being an athlete, like I'm highly coachable, I
love a team environment, and like I love feedback like bigger, smaller, yes, no, cool,
and like it was really fun and people have said
that I feel I felt natural on it, and I'm like,
for me again, that's almost like a I love that
moment of being on I don't really give a shit
(53:54):
to look at it. I hate looking at it, but
I'm like, oh, you thought it was good. Cool, never
going to see it, that's nice. So I have a
couple of things brewing in the acting department with some
of the people that I've previously mentioned, talking like em
in talks for a couple of roles on like some sitcoms.
I have sent some pitches for like movies out where
(54:15):
I could like, I don't think I'm a cynthiare, but
I think I can make an affable version of myself
from my view points for certain things. I was talking
with Sophia about a sitcom called Am I Crazy? And
I was like, Yo, Sometimes I'm like, like, let's leave
it to the cynthia as with the world to make
like soul piercing art. I just want to be on
(54:35):
NBC for seven seasons, Mike cracking jokes.
Speaker 4 (54:38):
Of people that I like and like sometimes like is
that simple?
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Is that simple? Sometimes it's like joy as revolutionary. So
if I can have like two people on a show
that I like being with every day and have like
you know, CBS pay for it, that's cool. But yeah,
I think acting and writing and podcasting are really going
to be heavy in twenty twenty five. I would also
just like to do a campaign of some sort and
(55:05):
like a real official capacity, like I would like to
be on a billboard in some capacity for clothing. Not
H and M obviously, but like you know, if Savage
Finty wants to call a Potega Venetta, you know he's available.
Call him, call my agent, call my people, have my
people call your people, or I'll just do the call myself.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Well, I look forward to many more dates together hanging out.
I see nothing but great things coming from you, like
you're an entertainer through and through.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
I do think like it's an like it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I don't think everyone has it, and you have the
special sauce. So I hope that for you, and I
have no doubt you're going to be able to do it.
But tell everyone where to actually find you.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
On social you can find me on Blakelee Thornton on
Instagram and TikTok b l A k E l y
t h r N t O N.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
Also I sat on it, thank God. On a media
no pod you.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Can find that as well, and then you can find
me on offshoots on out TV.
Speaker 4 (56:07):
I think we're going to be the next Shit's Creak,
so please watch that.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
So we can leak it to Netflix and then get
that money, and yeah, I'll just be here and queer
and there and everywhere, hopefully in the next few months.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
I love this for you and you deserve it, and
I'm excited to keep you know. I have a front
row seat to watch you do all these things, and
I think you're going to be incredible and I'm excited
for you.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Thank you so much for.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Coming on Wide Open, and we're going to follow you
every step of the way and we're rooting for you.
Speaker 4 (56:36):
Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Thanksving Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's
sports production. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers
are Carmen Borca, Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production
(56:58):
assistance from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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