June 23, 2025 • 52 mins
On this episode of Wide Open, Ashlyn Harris sits down with design expert and Queer Eye star Bobby Berk for an honest conversation about what it means to build your life on your own terms. Bobby talks about how the law of abundance applies to queer representation, the grit it took to become self-made, and the emotional clarity that comes with learning to let go.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Wide Open with
Ashland Harris.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I am so excited to have.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Bobby Burke on the show this week.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Wide Open.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, and I like to introduce all my guests. So
for those who don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Bobby Emmy, a winning TV host on Queer Eye.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, design guru, the one that is in all
of our living rooms for what eight years?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Eight seasons?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, I was there.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Let's see where ie including the Japan season nine almost
eight years.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, you just always made me cry, beautiful puppy dog tears.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good that my evil plan was worth.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
How you doing, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
How's life?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Life is great? Life is great, you know, except for
the last two hot days we had, la weather is perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well. I just yeah, people, it's always nice to see
you share space with you. You're you know, you're always
one of my favorite humans and my favorite queer date.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
To every queer.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Event, we usually somehow managed to be at the same table.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I know, I know it's my favorite and I never
even ask for that because I don't like to be
that person that asks for accommodations of oh I need
to be by this person or this person. I'm just
like whatever, I can sit with anybody. But I love that,
Like the industry just knows.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
They know.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, Like, let's put them together with each other. We're gonna.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
We're like literally ending each other sentences. There you're never
giving getting rid of me. But yeah, so I am
so happy to have you on. You have such a
beautiful story, incredible story that, like so many of us
have been able to get to know.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You through television.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
But the weird part is is we are all so
much more than what we do. So I would love
to peel some of the layers back and really start
from the beginning. You were raised in a rural area
in Missouri.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Honey, it's your shirt, say Carol.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hell, yeah it does.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It's funny because my phone is called Carol. I have
my name in there as Carol because back in the
day when anybody can air drop you anything, Yeah, people
fans on the plane and stuff would see my phone
and I would get some of the raunchiest pictures.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Sometimes I can get some way.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
So I just changed the name of my phone to
Carol because no one would think we can't. Yeah, you
could change because a lot of people also just leave
it as iPhone. So when you open up to air Drop,
somebody there's like twenty iPhones and I'm like, well, that's annoying.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I don't want to be that person. So I'm like,
all this changed it to Carol.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I need Carol.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I get literally dick pics on the subway in New York.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
You can, but now you can change it to where
only your contacts can minds.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And I haven't touched anything since.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Literally hadn't touched when with air Drop it was just
open to anybody, and I was like, oh my god,
I get that so.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Often on I don't think I think mine's completely public then,
and it's my name.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I've never changed it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, like this little queer woman, I'll change her.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I'll change her. That's a change her.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I love that this all just connected us.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
To you know what.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
This is my vintage shopping you know. I love a good.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, lesbian bowling shirt.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I feel like that's that was kind of inspired when
inspired me wearing this one. It's kind of like a
she But back to.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Missouri, Missouri, what tell me everything?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
How did life start for you in this small little town?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
You know, I I started, you know, at birth. No,
I actually started at birth in Texas. I ended up
in Missouri like three days later. But you know, I
went to a tiny, little small town. The town we
lived at the time was six hundred people and we
lived out in the country, so we didn't even live
in the city. It was such a small rural area
that we still had a party line.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Do you know what a party line is? Even you're
too young.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's when like multiple homes share the same phone number
because there's not enough wires.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, learning in real time money.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And then I went to a private Christian school through
elementary and it was like a one room like Laura
House on the Prairie esque school, like first through twelfth grade.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Was all in one room.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Wow, I was the only kid in my class my grade,
My only kid in my grade.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, it was. It was interesting. It's it really helped
developing those people skills.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, clearly, no.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
It didn't, honestly, because then when I was in middle.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
School, I begged and pleaded my parents to send me
to public school. And I realized when I got there,
I was like a very awkward kid because I didn't
really have I didn't have anybody else my age and
elementary so I never really learned how to interact with
other kids. I think that still messes me to me
to this day, like not getting that early elementary school
development of how you interact with other humans.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Again, there was other people in the school, but I
think I think the school had a total of maybe
like sixteen kids in it. Oh and everyone was either
quite a bit younger than me or quite a bit
older than me.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Okay, so well, of course these are formative years that
clearly shaped you. And then you end up moving, you know,
to what Denver and then to New York.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
City at such an early age.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I mean that had to be like whiplash shock.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
So I left home at fifteen and I went to
the big city of Springfield, Missouri.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Okay, yeah, there we are one hundred thousand people. And
then at seventeen, one day I kind of had like.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
A nervous breakdown almost I was driving a girlfriend to
work and the street we normally went down was blocked
with construction. So I like went to pull into this
hospital parking lot to like cut through to go to
another street, and like every exit in that parking lot
was blocked and I just brought my nineteen eighty four
Buick Century to a halt, and I was like, this
(06:25):
is my life. Every exit I try to take every
everything I try to better my life with, I just
run into roadblocks, I run into construction. And so I'm like,
I've got to get out of Missouri. Like I'm never
going to do anything with my life if I don't
get out of here. And so I called up a friend,
the only person in the world I knew outside of Missouri,
a friend of mine to this day, and I was like,
(06:48):
I've got to get out of Missouri. And he's like, well,
come to Denver, come come live by me. I'm like,
I don't have a job. I don't have a place
to live. I don't have any money. He's like, I'll
work on the place to live. You work on the
job of the money. Wow. So he calls me twenty
minutes later and he's like, my college roommate has a
spare bedroom. You can live with him until you find
a place, like okay.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then I go to work and I was one
of my like four part time jobs.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
I was at the body shop, a stockboy at the
body shop, and not like cars, but like satsum Alotion
at that body shop. And so I went into work
and I was like, you know, I need I've got
to get out of here. I've got to go to Denver,
but I need a job. And so my manager came
out like twenty minutes later, she's like, okay, so I
made some calls. You are now the assistant manager at
the body shop at the airport in Denver. And I'm like, okay, great.
(07:32):
So then I went home and I'm like, I still
don't have any money to move. And I looked and
I had this massive DVD collection. Don't ask how I
got it.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Oh, and I went to Hastings Music and that book
plastic book.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I went to Hasting's Music and I sold all of
them and I had made like five hundred bucks and
I used that to go runt to U haul and
within twenty four hours of having that breakdown in the
parking lot, I was in a U Haull on my
way to Denver. Because I knew if I didn't do it,
I would I'm a logical, I would talk myself out.
And so I'm like, I just I have to do
this or I'm never going to do it. And I
(08:06):
remember coming right as I got into Denver, coming over
the hill and seeing Denver spread out across this valley
and pulling over on the side of the road, and
again about having a breakdown, crying, going what have I done?
This is such a big city. Yeah, I'm this is
gonna eat me a lot. What was I thinking? And then,
(08:29):
you know, fast forward four years later, I was like,
this is such a small town. I have got to
get out of here. I've got to go to New
York City. And so that was Missouri to New York
City and then you know, I was in New York
City for twelve years and that's where I met my husband.
And we've been out here in La now for eleven years,
which is crazy. I've been out here almost as long
as I was in New York.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, that was my little bopping around journey.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And it's it's so incredible because I think what most
people really don't know about you is you are so
self made. And it's important to be able to share
that with people who hit those roadblocks in life, who feel.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Like I have to have this traditional education.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I got to go to school, and I got to
do all these things to be successful.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I you know, while I was in New York, I
started my own company, Furniture Company Retail. I first started
online and then as that became successful, I started opening
up stores around the US New York, Miami, Atlanta, and LA.
And at one point I hired a CFO because I'm like,
I know my strengths, I know my weaknesses. I'm like,
I don't have a business background. And again, you think
(09:38):
that's what you need. Yeah, And he has an NBA
business and a good friend of mine, and I always
just kind of did what felt good, what I thought
would work, and I would come up with these ideas
and he'd be like no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no no what I'm like, let's.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Do it, let's try.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And one day he was like, you know, it's so
annoying me that these ideas you have that traditionally red
flags and alarms to start going off in my head
when you say these, because I have been I have
this business training, and I have this roadmap of how
you are to be a success in business, and half
(10:16):
the things, more than half the things you do do
not compute to that roadmap. And he's like, but I
think one of the reasons why you're successful is you
don't have those red flags and alarms going off in
your mind going through So it's how you do it.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
That's not how you do it.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
You just try things, and you're not afraid to try
things because you don't know what's right or wrong. You're
just like, hey, this sounds like a good idea.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Let's try it. If not, we'll pivot.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Yeah, And he's like, so, I think the key to
your success is you don't have that traditional education. So
for the people out there who think, oh, I can't
be an entrepreneur, I can't do my own thing, I
can't be a success because I either couldn't afford to
go to college because our system in this country sucks,
or it just life happened and education didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Don't let that stop you. You can do it. I
could do it. I'm a high school Joba.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
You have a good intuition about you where you constantly
were betting on yourself, And I think that's where people
go wrong. I think we live in a culture, in
a society that we feel comparison is it. We compare
fucking compare ourselves to everything anything.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Especially people like you and I who are on a
team yeah, Like all you do is.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Compare Why are they getting that?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And I'm not in this and that?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, how are they? I should be better, I should
be doing more. It is exhausting, and I think we
lose the plots so often because we get caught up
and constantly comparing ourself, our life, our partner, are, where
we're at and where we're going, and we lose sight
of reality where we start to live through the lens
of something else that's.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Just not not truth.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
One of the things you have to learn in life,
and it's been hard, but you have to learn in
the law of abundance, there is enough success out there
for everyone who wants it. One person's success it's like pie.
You know, one person's success doesn't mean less.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Success for you exactly. It's just it's their success. Be
happy for their success.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Put that energy out there and that good energy will
come back to you. Marginalized communities such as women, gays,
people of color, we have all been taught there's one
seat at the table, one and so we are the
least supportive people to each other because we feel like
we have to compete for that one seat. And I
(12:32):
think it's very important to realize like, you know, I
forget who who said this, but it was like, you
know what, nobody would give me a seat at the table.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
So I made my own table. And that's what we
have to do.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Recently, there was a show I had created and many
of the characters were gay, and it was going very far.
We were in very serious talks with a streamer, and
then another gay show got announced and they freaked out
and they.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Were like, oh no, it's too similar.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
And we're like, we actually not at all, like it's gay,
is not really similar, and they're like, oh no, no, no,
too similar. And so some of my colleagues that were
working on it with me like refuse to watch the
show that show because they're angry and not that show's
(13:23):
fault at all, the industry's fault. But I'm like, no,
we need to watch it. We need to support it.
Even if you don't watch, turn it on, give them
the views. Because when a gay shi se show succeeds,
we all do because studios are like, oh, that gay
show succeeded, Hey, let's green light some more. So, let's
not boycotts our communities projects because we're upset that that
(13:50):
project maybe picked over ours or there's not enough. Again,
there's not enough room at the table. We need to
create space for ourselves. And when our community is successful,
it breeds more success for all of us, both in
women and people of color and other marginalized communities like
gay people. And I mean, I remember, I mean to
this day, but especially when queer I first came out,
(14:11):
people were always like, oh, I'm sure, like the gay
community is just supporting you so much, and we're like,
oh my god, no, Like our community is the one that's.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
The worst to us, Like the.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Gay community did not support that show at all. They
would constantly come for us.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Like we don't need this the the and.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Again, I think it really came from a place of
I hate to use the word jealousy, but it kind
of was because they're jealous that we took that space
when they're so little, you know. But that just goes
back to the statement I made earlier, where when one
of us succeeds, it opens up more space for others
(14:55):
of us, more of us to succeed.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And I think that's so important to say, and I
say this often, and even my small little sports community,
it's like we have to continue standing on the shoulders
of each other and not on our necks, and it's
just the harsh reality. And the show has been so successful,
and it's really talk about acceptance and no judgment and
(15:20):
really learning the inner workings of something so beautiful. A
lot of people needed to see that, and a lot
of people needed some sort of understanding because there are
places like rural Missouri, some people go their whole fucking
lifetime without meeting a gay person that they know that
(15:42):
they know.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, that part's.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Let me correct, But I'm curious when we like kind
of peel back all these layers. And I, you know,
I was reading a lot on your bio and hearing
you were adopted, you know, as a mom who has
adopted both of her kids, and being queer in a
very small town where it's not accepted, and now building
(16:05):
this insanely.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Beautiful life for yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You're doing so much good in our community and in
the world, in our space. How did you with an
identity like being adopted and being queer and all these
all of these things?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
How did you pick design? How did it speak to you?
How did it choose you?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
As far as a career, I honestly kind of fell
into it okay, But as a child, I remember when
I was five or six years old, my mom had
decorated my room and like all red, red curtains, red bedspread, everybody,
and I was just like, I do not vibe with this,
(16:51):
Like I just there was something about it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
It just did not It did not make me feel good.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
So like my aunts and grandma would send me, you know,
these twenty dollars shecks for my birthday, and I remember
using my birthday money to buy new decor from the bedroom,
and I bought everything.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Blue because I'm like, blue makes me.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Feel better, and scientifically it has proven blue is a soothing,
relaxing color. So even as a child, I understood the
way your space can make you feel. But it was
never something that I thought. I was a career. You
know that we didn't have designers and the corn fields
of Missouri. You know, the only designers I was ever
(17:30):
supposed to do was designing Women, you know, a great
TV show in the eighties. But it wasn't until you know, again,
I left home at fifteen, no education. I was you know,
working at restaurants. I was working at gas stations, I
was working at the mall retail and I worked with
my way up in retail in a pretty decent career.
You know, I was the youngest store manager in Express history.
(17:53):
I wasn't even eighteen yet. I couldn't even operate the
trash compactor, but.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I was the manager of the store, and so I
was doing well with that, and I started I got
a job at.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
A retail furniture company out in Denver called the Great Indoors,
and it was this massive, massive, everything you could need
for your home. And I realized I really enjoyed that.
And so although my career was retail, when I moved
to York, I searched out another retail furniture job, and
that job was restoration hardware in New York. I was
(18:25):
a visual manager there, and so after Restoration Hardware, I
went to pet Bath and beyond horrible job. And then yeah,
I skipped Aroun a little bit to some other retail furniture.
But then I ended up at a company called Portico
and it was a nice high end furniture boutique, and
I started managing one of their stores and then became
(18:48):
a buyer, and then launched their e commerce division and
became the creative director of the company, and then Unfortunately,
the company was not managed very well and it ended
up going under. But at that point I was like,
I can do this, yeah, and so I took the
database that I had that I had built for them
for their e commerce division. And this was two thousand
(19:09):
and five. You know, there wasn't many people selling anything online.
But I registered Bobby Burke Home and I was like,
let me try this. Maybe I'll sell us so far
too while I look for another job. And I sold
more than a few and it did well, and it
was one of the I was one of the first
companies selling furniture online period, and so I opened up
my own stores after that when it was doing well,
(19:30):
because my biggest hurdle with online furniture was manufacturers didn't
want to sell to.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Me because I sold online. Like online, no one's going
to want to buy furniture online, and.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
That's crazy, you know, Little did they know fast forward
twenty years later, that's you know, I would will be.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Buying it exactly.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
But so I had to open up brick and mortar
stores to be taken seriously. So I did, and I
you know I would. I was a curator of pretty things.
I wasn't a designer, but I would help customers decorate
their homes. But I wasn't doing construction documents. I wasn't
doing electrical plans. Again, I was picking up pretty things.
But then in twenty fifteen I got a call from
(20:09):
Builder magazine and they were like, hey, we hired a
PR firm to tell us who the most well known
millennial teer designer in.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
The world was. And they said it was you. Wow,
And in my mind I was like, that's fun.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm not an a TEI designer, but great, Okay, what
can I do for you? And they were like, we
are building the show homes for the International Builder Show
with a builder in Las Vegas, and we want you
to design these homes because they're all about what millennials
are going to want in the next or in the
next decade, and so they're like, can you do that?
In my mind I was like, no, I don't. I
(20:45):
don't know, because again it wasn't just picking up pretty
things like it was construction documents, tile layouts, electrical plans
like needing to know CAD, none of which I knew.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
But of course I said, yes, of course I can
do that.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
We didn't have AI.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Then, no, there's no ai am.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
But I got on I got online, I got on YouTube,
I got on Google, and I manipulated floor plants and
photoshop instead of cat and I like, wow.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I made it work and I figured it out.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
And that was the same year we had decided to
move to La So I moved here to La. I
hired one assistant to help me install these homes. That
assistant now runs my design company, and ten years later
he's still with me and the house is were success.
And so that builder was like, hey, will you start
(21:28):
designing homes for our communities across the country. And to
this day, they's still my biggest client. I'm a spokesperson
for their company. Now they're the fourth or fifth largest
builder in the US Tripoint homes. And that's how I
got into design again. I kind of fell into it.
It was a combination of well.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It wasn't by accident. You worked your asshole.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
It, did you know? I worked years of my stores.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I worked seven days a week, sixteen hour days, three
hundred and sixty three days a year. It always frustrated
me that I had to close on things giving him
Christmas because my landlords were still making money. But I wasn't.
So Yeah, I worked my butt off and I'm at
the point in my life now where I still work hard,
but I don't work nearly that hard.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
It's kind of nice.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Well, you've earned that right, And I'm curious with this
beautiful story that's not linear, that we're a lot of
dead ends, and there was probably a lot of heartache,
and yeah, I felt when am I? Yeah, when am
I going to get my next paycheck? Am I going
to be able to do this? Like, I'm sure there's
so many questions, But I think as a creative myself,
(22:34):
like so much of my work and what I do
creatively is influenced by my story. I draw so much,
so much inspiration from it. Now, from your point of view,
when you're design you're designing these spaces for other people.
Do you bring yourself into these designs through your experience?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
So for me, I feel my sole job as a
designer doing someone's home is to make that home about them.
So there are a lot of designers who will design
it a very specific aesthetic because that is their aesthetic
and you can see it a mile away, and there's
nothing wrong with that. But for me, I feel like,
(23:17):
as a designer. It's your job to design for the client,
not for yourself. So I do not. You know, I
do have a very specific aesthetic, and there are some
clients who will come to me because they like that.
But if they like that, that's also their esthetic. Yeah,
but I will never force my design philosophy outside of
(23:38):
like function. You know, I will force my design for
philosophy on people about function, because I think before your
house is pretty, it needs to function properly, because the
pretty as of houses that don't function properly make for
a dysfunctional family. So I will force that on them,
but I won't force, you know, if they want me
to work in that awful purple critics at Gertrude, they.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Will just bite your tongue.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I find that I also, but.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
We also try not to take clients who have a
lot of stuff they already work in they want to
work in.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know, you have your book right at home, and
you did discuss a lot about the connection between design
and mental health, and I really want you to elaborate
on that because, just like you said, it really does
affect how families move, or people function within the chaos.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
So my book Right at Home, How Good Design Is
Good for the Mind, And it is literally all about
mental health and design. And it's something that I had
thought about for years, again going back to when I
was five years old, understanding that certain colors made me
feel a certain way, some good, some bad. It's also
something that I've had to learn as an adult, like
(25:12):
chaos around you creates chaos in your mind. I have
always had to keep a very tidy house because there's
enough chaos in my mind. I don't need it around me,
you know. I'm on the spectrum I have add I
have to have things a certain way, and people who
don't realize that their lives can be quite chaotic. And
(25:32):
I wanted to write a book about so many different
things with the home and health. I mean, there's a
chapter about the different temperatures of light. You know, from
cool white light like the ones that are honest right now,
but this type of light is energizing. The sun is
technically white light, and it is the brightest white in
(25:55):
the mornings.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And our bodies are species.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Every species on the planet has evolved to wake up
to that bright white light because the sun is the
brightest and the whitest in the morning. So in the
morning when you wake up, it is very important to
if you don't have access to sunlight like that, it
is important to have more of a bright white bull
like in your bathroom when you're getting ready in the morning,
because your body naturally wakes up to that more. But
(26:18):
in the evenings, what color is the sunset? It's more amber, right,
and so in the evenings it is more important to
have a lower Kelvin number, like a two to three
thousand as opposed to a six thousand in your home
at night, because that helps your body, your circadian rhythm
automatically start going, oh.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Hey, like it's time to go to bed.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
People who have problems sleeping, I always ask I was like,
do you dim your lights in the evening?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And they're like, what do you mean. I'm like, you know,
around eight o'clock, do you dim them a little bit?
You bring down? They're like, no, I don't.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I'm like, well, you are going into your room seconds
after you've turned off bright lights and you are telling
your body go to sleep. Your body's like, wait, you
didn't prepare me. You didn't tell me this was happening. Okay,
all right, let me start producing melatonin. All right, let's
get ready, and you know you'll lay in bed for
an hour or two just wide awake because you know
you didn't Just like, if you have an electric car,
(27:13):
you've got to precondition that battery sometimes to charge the best.
And so if you know you're going to charge it,
you hit that pre condition button and it starts preparing
your battery.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You're like, oh, I'm going to get a charge.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Your body needs to do that for sleep too, and
so again lights, there's a whole chapter about color theory,
about colors that are more soothing, colors that are more energizing,
So like if you're in an office space, like colors
that you should paint if you're wanting to be more energized.
There's a whole chapter on organization, and again, chaos around
(27:43):
you creates chaos in your mind. There's a chapter about
designing for your kids. Let's see, there's a chapter about
design and grief. You know, right as I was this
is about to go on tour with this, my my
father passed and I didn't realize that this chapter I
was writing would be such a help to my mother.
(28:04):
You know, it's because it's hard when you've been with
somebody for literally decades, like my parents had, kind of
changing your home up to where everything in your home
doesn't remind you of them, to where you can start
to heal and move on, but you don't want to
forget them. You don't want to ever fully move on.
(28:25):
So it's a fine balance between taking away the things
that remind you of them because it feels good, but
also taking away the things that remind you of them
because it hurts everytime you see them, and you know,
having that space in your house that is still for them,
where you can go and you can remember them, and
you can have your moments, you can have your cries,
but kind of making other parts of the home where
(28:45):
there aren't.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Just constant reminders. Yeah, so you you know, your little
heart can heal. But it's all about the way it
affects you.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And I think it is there's so much truth to
it because you and I share a very similar our
experience where you know, I didn't come out until after college.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Like honestly, not very long ago.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And I mean I remember telling my dad I was gay,
and my dad was like, sweetheart, I raised you like,
I know, sweetheart, we all knew. And I'm like, well,
I guess mom, didn't you. Yeah, Jesus, you would have
saved a lot of trauma. I'm artache. But my mom
(29:31):
used to always want my room to be pink.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It was always this pink, and you.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Know, me probably did know. She was like right now,
but it's you don't like pink.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I mean, I had.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
A pink little princess daughter that I'm really learning to
love it, but it's just not for me. And I remember,
like my mom was so sweet and she was like
do these like you know, we didn't come for much money,
so she would take like sponges and like do the
white and.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Used to sponge paint hue painting.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It was like her favorite thing to do.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
And I'm like, it's whole fucking room's pink.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It is all pink.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
My sister, my mom had decorated room and holly hobby
when she was little, and my sister is like tom
Boy horses. Yeah, she was not. She was not down
with the holly hobby.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
I always though, at one point my sister would also
be like, hey.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Guess what never has.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Like everyone now is like I'm like, you're sure anyone's straight?
At at this point, I'm like, where are we all
living this secret life?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But I do find it interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I heard this and read this that during the show.
You know, it's a very like queer eyes fucking emotional
it is. And I don't think audience understand how as
a queer person that opens a lot of wounds going
into homes like that and discussing topics of like heartache, heaviness,
(31:09):
and religion.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And you spoke.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
About how you had to process a lot going through
the show because it does open wounds.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Can you talk about that because I.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Don't think most people understand the weight.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Yes, I mean there were many episodes where I would
just I would go.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Home afterwards and I would just cry. Yeah, because there
was a lot of topics, whether it.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Be religion or parents or siblings or anything to do
with family that I at that point hadn't really processed. Again,
I didn't. I mean I for most of my young
adult life, I couldn't afford therapy.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
There weren't a lot of online options. There were nothing.
You know, it was either you spent two hundred dollars
for a session.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Which I you know, obviously didn't have. So I there
was a lot of things I had not processed before
the show. And you know, there was mainly with religion,
you know, because growing up, religion was.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
My whole life. I lived, eat, slept, breathed religion. I
was at the church literally every day. Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
And so when I lost that, I lost a part
of who I thought I was, this identity that I
had created for myself. And so for years I didn't
know who I was anymore. I was never really able
to find that identity again. So going into these episodes
where you know, like that one episode in season two
(32:40):
we're renovating a church, I wouldn't go in the church.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I don't know if you've seen that episode. It was
it was literally the town of Gay Georgia. Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And it was this lovely, amazing, beautiful woman named Tammy,
Mama Tammy. And my production crew told me we were
renovating a community center. Because the very first lunch I
had with the creator of the show and the producer
when I got cast, they asked me, we just want
to know is there anything you don't want to do? Like,
(33:15):
is there anything that would just be too much for you?
And I was like, please just never ask me to
go in a church.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
So they knew it would be a problem, and so
they lied to me about it and said we were
doing a community center. And granted it was the community
center next to the church, yeah, but it was still
it's the church.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
So when.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
We get to the church, we're getting a tour of
the property, and we toured the community building that we're
going into and I went into that. It was fine,
you know, that was the space I needed to redo.
And they're like, oh, let us go ahead and show
you the sanctuary, and all the other guys went in
and I just I stopped at the front door, and
the guy was like, oh, come.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
On in, and I was like, I'm good, and he's
like what. I was like, yeah, no, no, I'm good.
You guys, you guys, go ahead, You're fine. I'm just
I'm I'm I'm not walking in that space.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
And I got in so much trouble that day from
the creator of the show.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
He was so mad at me.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
He thought I had ruined that episode and it turned
out to be one of the most powerful moments.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Of the entire entire series that to this day.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
I get dms and people walking up to me on
the street, saying that that was one of the most
powerful moments of their life because it finally gave them
permission to say no.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
This was traumatizing to me. This destroyed me. This broke
my heart.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
I gave you way everything and you turned your back
on me. Simply because I am who I am. I
don't have to pretend like that's not the case. I
don't have to pretend like everything is okay. I can
say this is where I draw the line, and religion
is dead to me.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
And I've so many people because of course it's a show,
and I still have to sometimes in the end act
like everything's great when it's not.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And so many people are like, oh, that that show
really healed you, didn't it.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I was like, no, it didn't, you know, mamma and
Tammy was lovely though, So in the end, I was like,
I'll do whatever, Mammy, tam mommy and mommy, mommy, Gamy.
Mamma Tammy asked, and I will come into that church
and I will sing with her and I will give
her a hug. But I was like, no, it did
not help me. I still feel the exact same way
I did before.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Well, I appreciate you sharing that and that that is powerful.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Where are you at now?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
How has that opened up healing growth space for other things?
Like do you feel like you're moving in a place,
in a direction where you're betting on yourself again and
being happy and complete?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:41):
I think so, especially as you know, when you come
out of a team your identity yeah, become said team yeah,
And you know, coming out of a very emotionally charged,
emotionally draining, emotionally healing show for nine seasons, it was
(36:06):
hard a to make the decision to leave, but b
to find myself again as an individual, And I think
I have.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
You know, it's been fun.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
I took some time off, and you know, I have
a lot of new exciting things that are some have
been announced, some haven't been announced yet.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
But yeah, I think I am moving in a great direction.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know, I think we all go through it.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I'm going through it in real time now being a
newly retired athlete and being a mom and all of
these things. I'm not who I used to be.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
What did that.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Look like for you again, as you know, as being
a part of team, being a part of the Fab five,
Like that's who I was.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I was Bobby from the Fat Five.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
You know, every every interview I did, every show I
was on, you know, was introduced as.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Bobby from the Fab Five, you know.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
And so for that being almost a decade, I would
still find myself like Bobby from Querai, like Bobby from
the Fat Five, and I'm like, wait.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
No, not anymore.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
No, So you know, I had to start finding myself
again as an identity separate from that because that show
was put first for so long, and the experience that
our heroes would have was put first for so long.
You know, there was obviously, I think the world has
(37:30):
figured out. It wasn't always a peachy place behind the
scenes there, but that was to allow that to affect,
to affect the experience our heroes. Heroes had was never
an option. So it was always just kind of handle it,
deal with it, you know. So finding myself after that
(37:55):
was hard.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
But and do you feel like you're on the right track?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I do?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
We look like it.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You have a beautiful spirit to you and it's so infectious.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I love spending time with you.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I always ask this question on the show, what moment
like in your life and in this journey both personally
professionally have really split you wide open that it really.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Changed it all for you.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
What moment?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, what moment in your life was like really defining moment.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
I mean, as much as we've talked about finding myself
outside of Queer Eye, Queeri was an extremely defining moment. Yeah,
you know, the original Queer Eye for the Strake. I
was a defining moment for me to see five real
life gay people, you know, because back then the only
(39:05):
gay person on television was Ellen and that was very
fresh in news. Yeah. I don't even think Elton John
was out back then. Wow, you know, So to see
five gay guys on TV who were real, They weren't acting,
they had real careers, they were a real success that
(39:26):
really was very inspiring for me to see that I
too can succeed, you know because growing up, once I
came out, I was basically told I would never amount
to anything, I would never be accepted, I would never
be loved, And so to see those five guys prove
all that wrong was inspiring to me. And so for
(39:47):
me to be able to be on the same show
that did that for me and do that for millions
of other little queer kids around the world. Was a
huge defining moment for me. It was kind of full circle.
It was me being able to give back like the
original guys.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Did for me.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Now you're so forward, facing so many people, so many
people recognize and know you. How has that impacted your life?
Speaker 4 (40:12):
I mean there are many, many, many positive things, as
you know about being a public figure. Yeah, but there
are also a lot of negative things, you know. I
try not to dwell on the negative things. Some of
those negative things are being always recognized, people thinking they
(40:35):
know who you are, people coming to judgments about you,
about who you are when they really don't know who
you are. But my show has been has had such
an impact on people, whether I am if I'm just
trying to get a coffee at a coffee shop, and
in turn, I amn't there for thirty minutes holding somebody
(40:56):
as they cry, telling me the story about how the
affected them or their sibling or their parents or you know.
I got picked up from the airport once by a
driver and he was a white cis gendered male, probably
in his seventies.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
And he proceeded.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
You know, again, I was in a rush. I you know,
had had a long day. I didn't you know, I
had enough emotions on my own. I didn't need more.
But he sat there and told me how his daughter
was trance and him and his wife didn't know, didn't
know how to react, didn't know how to support her, didn't.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Know how to accept her. Just it was so foreign
to them.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
But watching Queer Eye healed that brought them together, allowed
them to look past what other people were telling them
and realized that they just needed to love their daughter,
and that's all they needed to do. That's all she
needed from them, was for them to love and support her,
because she was strong enough to do other things on
her own as long as she had that love and support.
(42:02):
And so I get to hear all these amazing stories.
So again, one of the cons is that sometimes when
I really just want to coffee, I end up holding
somebody as a cry. But one of the pros is
I get to hold somebody while they cry and talk
about how that show changed their life and change their
famili's life, changed their kids' life, change their siblings' life.
So yeah, it's changed my life, and you know, I
(42:24):
can't always get to an airport. I've honestly, I have
missed some flights.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Because of that, I have learned now sunglasses, earbuds, baseball cap.
Sorry guys, but I do hear you. I just act
like I don't because I'm running to my blight.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Listen, if you see Bobby in a hat, sunglasses, and
ear pods, you probably wear the wires too, so you
really let people know not.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
To fuck with you sometimes. But it's funny. I often
won't even have anything on in them. I will just
have noise cancelations. Gets again, I'm on the spectrum. I
need that noise.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Cancelation just to block the world out.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
It's I have so many cheap, crap pairs of headphones
that I've had to buy at the airport because I've
left mine at home, and I'm like, i can't get
through the airport on time without that because people will
stop me. But yeah, I'm forgetting what the question was.
Everythink how the show has changed that? But yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
It's difficult because people want fame and fortune, and I'm
telling people you don't want fame.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Well here's the thing, Yeah, you don't think I forget
who sings the song witch?
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I said what I said, I'd rather be famous instead?
Is it? Who do? But I always hear that. I'm like,
I don't. But here's the thing, Like, I feel like.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
As I don't, I hate to use the word celebrity,
I hate to use the word public figure, but I
have to use the word something. So I think I
feel like as people in the public eye, like we
are public figures. We're very lucky because there are a
lot of things that we have access to. There are
a lot of great things that happened to us because
of that. And I feel like we owe the public
(44:07):
who puts us in this position a certain amount of
respect and a certain amount of willingness to give back
to them, Meaning that time in the coffee shop when
I'm giving back to this person who has loved and
supported me through the TV screen for years, I feel
that we owe them that. And you know, there is
a new generation of celebs as of recently who don't
(44:30):
feel that, who are very publicly my privacy time this me, me, me, me, me,
you know, And I'm like, well, if it's that hard
to be famous, don't go away, go away. These are
people who are spending their time, money, their money, their
(44:51):
emotions to make us who we are, and to dismiss them,
to say you owe me mice within reason, Yes, there's
a level of respect that still needs to be there,
but to to be like, no, I'm not above.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, exactly, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
And you know who else says this really well was
Billy Jean King. When I got to sit down with her,
she says, you know, she's like I was. I always
knew when I stepped on the court that all of
these people were paying to watch me and they had
to make hard choices in their life to choose that moment. Yes,
and I am not above any fucking person there. And
(45:36):
I think sometimes we forget it because who's who's paying
for this beautiful life you've created. It's it's the people
who have shown up over and over and over again,
who have supported you.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
And to not show up for them, I think it's
just it says, it's exactly who you are, exactly, and
that is not the person I wanted to be.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
And with that, I'm gonna ask you the last question,
because I can keep you here all and I love you,
If you could design a safe space for your younger self.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Now, if you could go back in time.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
What would that look like for you, that little boy
from rural Missouri.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
I mean, I think it's safe.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
If I could redesign a safe space for me, is
I think it would be a much more diverse space.
You know, I grew up in an incredibly undiverse world,
and I think that's why I immerse myself in so
much diversity now. And I was posted pictures earlier today
and I'd like, and all these photos are like, I'm
(46:36):
the only.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
White person in the photo, and I love it, you know.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
I was like, it's always funny to me, Like I
went from growing up at a very undiverse world to just.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
Wanting to complete opposite of them. No, So I yeah,
I think.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
If I could, you know, design a space for myself,
it would be a much more diverse one. Because the
problem with our country right now is everybody is in
their own bubble. Every especially in the middle of America,
people only listen to people with their point of view.
They're only around people that are just like them, and
that breeds more hate because then they're raising children to
(47:11):
think like that too, and it's getting worse and worse
and worse. So for children to grow up in a
more diverse space, creates better human beings.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more. And I'm I'm
glad I get to share this journey with you because
I do. I say this often, but sharing space with
you is I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
So thank you, thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Thanks, and tell everyone what you're doing now now that
you're working on You're working on so many fucking projects.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
At this point, I cannot, I can't.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Say anything, but there's a lot of cool things.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
One yeah, one show that I have announced. It's a
show called Strikers. It is a sports comedy. Hey, it
is about cricket, which did you know that after European
football saying huge, cricket is the second largest sport on
the planet, just not here, but yes, he is starting
(48:06):
to be here though, four hundred new leagues in the
US in the last couple of years alone, So cricket, cricket,
cricket is coming. But cricket is a huge sport. So
I mean, I hate to compare a show to another show,
but just kind of to give you this, kind of
like ted Lasso, but for cricket.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
You know, a good warm hearted sports comedy.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
We have some amazing writers on it, two of the
writers from the Real o'neils and from Fresh off the Boat.
We just finished our pilot with Josh and Jonathan, so
it's a very diverse show. As of now, I think
I am the only white person on the I was
like the only one person he had that there will
be more team members cast on the that are on
(48:48):
the cricket teams. That there will be, but I play
a sports agent and it's it's just going to be
a really feel good show that we need that. Yeah,
we really need it, and I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Obviously this will be kind of my first time acting.
I've done a little bit of acting. It's funny. I
did a guest appearance on Alex and Katie once years ago,
and I was supposed to be playing myself, which I
was like, oh, how easy will that be?
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I'm playing myself? But then I get there and I'm like,
who am I? Who am I?
Speaker 4 (49:22):
And I'm like, wait, no, playing yourself especially it's hard,
especially playing yourself and not like I queer. I play myself,
but I'm also everything that comes out of my mouth.
I'm deciding what comes out of my mouth, so it
really is me. But when you're acting on a show
as yourself, you're.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Still there's lines.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
The lines are still written by the writers, and so
I was especially like a lot of the lines that
were written, I'm like, this is me.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
But then I'm like, well it was. It was really
fucked with my head to this just be you, and
I'm like, but am I. So it's not my.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
First time acting, but it is my first time acting
as a character outside of you know, high school musicals
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
You know, you're gonna be great.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
The first of many, and there's some design shows that
will be announced soon as well. It's a game show
I'm working on right now, which has been a dream
of mine forever.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
I wanted to host a game show for you. That's
the one who knows about that yet. But that's it's
not for sure yet, but we'll put it out there.
It's going to be in the universe. I'm really diving,
diving back into the deep end.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
It's good though. We need you back. I want to
see your face.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
All over the place, so I feel like it's it's
when I'm at home, So tell everyone where.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
They can find you.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
So my Instagram's at Bobby, My TikTok's at Bobby, threads
at Bobby.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
Everything is just at Bobby.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
That's so good to see you, Bobby. Thank you for
coming on the show. I adore you and I can't
wait for what's next. Everyone go check out Bobby on
social channels and your new show coming out?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
When is it coming out? Do you even know when
it's coming out?
Speaker 4 (51:01):
We were going to be shooting it this summer, okay,
but there is another show that I haven't been able
to announce yet, so you're busy. Was in negotiations before
that that has taken presidents, so we won't be filming
it until.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Next year now, but it's coming. It's coming.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
But yeah, so I would since we're filming it next year,
it's probably going to be out like early twenty twenties.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Okay, got you know how the BIS was?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I sure do? Thirty four ye learning reale time?
Speaker 4 (51:28):
Yeah, so best case scenario early twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Great, So good to see you. Thanks for coming on
the show, and we will see everyone next week on
another episode of Wide Open with Ashland.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Wide Open with Ashland.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Harris is an iHeart women's Sports Production. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borka Correo, Emily Maronov,
and Lucy Jones. Production assistant from Malia Aguidello. Our executive
producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our
(52:06):
editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm Your
Host Ashlyn Harris
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Wide Open with
Ashland Harris.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I am so excited to have.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Bobby Burke on the show this week.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Wide Open.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, and I like to introduce all my guests. So
for those who don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Bobby Emmy, a winning TV host on Queer Eye.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, design guru, the one that is in all
of our living rooms for what eight years?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Eight seasons?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, I was there.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Let's see where ie including the Japan season nine almost
eight years.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, you just always made me cry, beautiful puppy dog tears.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good that my evil plan was worth.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
How you doing, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
How's life?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Life is great? Life is great, you know, except for
the last two hot days we had, la weather is perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well. I just yeah, people, it's always nice to see
you share space with you. You're you know, you're always
one of my favorite humans and my favorite queer date.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
To every queer.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Event, we usually somehow managed to be at the same table.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I know, I know it's my favorite and I never
even ask for that because I don't like to be
that person that asks for accommodations of oh I need
to be by this person or this person. I'm just
like whatever, I can sit with anybody. But I love that,
Like the industry just knows.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
They know.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, Like, let's put them together with each other. We're gonna.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
We're like literally ending each other sentences. There you're never
giving getting rid of me. But yeah, so I am
so happy to have you on. You have such a
beautiful story, incredible story that, like so many of us
have been able to get to know.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You through television.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
But the weird part is is we are all so
much more than what we do. So I would love
to peel some of the layers back and really start
from the beginning. You were raised in a rural area
in Missouri.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Honey, it's your shirt, say Carol.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hell, yeah it does.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It's funny because my phone is called Carol. I have
my name in there as Carol because back in the
day when anybody can air drop you anything, Yeah, people
fans on the plane and stuff would see my phone
and I would get some of the raunchiest pictures.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Sometimes I can get some way.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
So I just changed the name of my phone to
Carol because no one would think we can't. Yeah, you
could change because a lot of people also just leave
it as iPhone. So when you open up to air Drop,
somebody there's like twenty iPhones and I'm like, well, that's annoying.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I don't want to be that person. So I'm like,
all this changed it to Carol.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I need Carol.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I get literally dick pics on the subway in New York.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
You can, but now you can change it to where
only your contacts can minds.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And I haven't touched anything since.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Literally hadn't touched when with air Drop it was just
open to anybody, and I was like, oh my god,
I get that so.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Often on I don't think I think mine's completely public then,
and it's my name.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I've never changed it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, like this little queer woman, I'll change her.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I'll change her. That's a change her.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I love that this all just connected us.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
To you know what.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
This is my vintage shopping you know. I love a good.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, lesbian bowling shirt.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I feel like that's that was kind of inspired when
inspired me wearing this one. It's kind of like a
she But back to.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Missouri, Missouri, what tell me everything?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
How did life start for you in this small little town?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
You know, I I started, you know, at birth. No,
I actually started at birth in Texas. I ended up
in Missouri like three days later. But you know, I
went to a tiny, little small town. The town we
lived at the time was six hundred people and we
lived out in the country, so we didn't even live
in the city. It was such a small rural area
that we still had a party line.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Do you know what a party line is? Even you're
too young.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's when like multiple homes share the same phone number
because there's not enough wires.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, learning in real time money.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And then I went to a private Christian school through
elementary and it was like a one room like Laura
House on the Prairie esque school, like first through twelfth grade.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Was all in one room.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Wow, I was the only kid in my class my grade,
My only kid in my grade.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, it was. It was interesting. It's it really helped
developing those people skills.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, clearly, no.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
It didn't, honestly, because then when I was in middle.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
School, I begged and pleaded my parents to send me
to public school. And I realized when I got there,
I was like a very awkward kid because I didn't
really have I didn't have anybody else my age and
elementary so I never really learned how to interact with
other kids. I think that still messes me to me
to this day, like not getting that early elementary school
development of how you interact with other humans.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Again, there was other people in the school, but I
think I think the school had a total of maybe
like sixteen kids in it. Oh and everyone was either
quite a bit younger than me or quite a bit
older than me.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Okay, so well, of course these are formative years that
clearly shaped you. And then you end up moving, you know,
to what Denver and then to New York.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
City at such an early age.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I mean that had to be like whiplash shock.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
So I left home at fifteen and I went to
the big city of Springfield, Missouri.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Okay, yeah, there we are one hundred thousand people. And
then at seventeen, one day I kind of had like.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
A nervous breakdown almost I was driving a girlfriend to
work and the street we normally went down was blocked
with construction. So I like went to pull into this
hospital parking lot to like cut through to go to
another street, and like every exit in that parking lot
was blocked and I just brought my nineteen eighty four
Buick Century to a halt, and I was like, this
(06:25):
is my life. Every exit I try to take every
everything I try to better my life with, I just
run into roadblocks, I run into construction. And so I'm like,
I've got to get out of Missouri. Like I'm never
going to do anything with my life if I don't
get out of here. And so I called up a friend,
the only person in the world I knew outside of Missouri,
a friend of mine to this day, and I was like,
(06:48):
I've got to get out of Missouri. And he's like, well,
come to Denver, come come live by me. I'm like,
I don't have a job. I don't have a place
to live. I don't have any money. He's like, I'll
work on the place to live. You work on the
job of the money. Wow. So he calls me twenty
minutes later and he's like, my college roommate has a
spare bedroom. You can live with him until you find
a place, like okay.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then I go to work and I was one
of my like four part time jobs.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
I was at the body shop, a stockboy at the
body shop, and not like cars, but like satsum Alotion
at that body shop. And so I went into work
and I was like, you know, I need I've got
to get out of here. I've got to go to Denver,
but I need a job. And so my manager came
out like twenty minutes later, she's like, okay, so I
made some calls. You are now the assistant manager at
the body shop at the airport in Denver. And I'm like, okay, great.
(07:32):
So then I went home and I'm like, I still
don't have any money to move. And I looked and
I had this massive DVD collection. Don't ask how I
got it.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Oh, and I went to Hastings Music and that book
plastic book.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I went to Hasting's Music and I sold all of
them and I had made like five hundred bucks and
I used that to go runt to U haul and
within twenty four hours of having that breakdown in the
parking lot, I was in a U Haull on my
way to Denver. Because I knew if I didn't do it,
I would I'm a logical, I would talk myself out.
And so I'm like, I just I have to do
this or I'm never going to do it. And I
(08:06):
remember coming right as I got into Denver, coming over
the hill and seeing Denver spread out across this valley
and pulling over on the side of the road, and
again about having a breakdown, crying, going what have I done?
This is such a big city. Yeah, I'm this is
gonna eat me a lot. What was I thinking? And then,
(08:29):
you know, fast forward four years later, I was like,
this is such a small town. I have got to
get out of here. I've got to go to New
York City. And so that was Missouri to New York
City and then you know, I was in New York
City for twelve years and that's where I met my husband.
And we've been out here in La now for eleven years,
which is crazy. I've been out here almost as long
as I was in New York.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, that was my little bopping around journey.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And it's it's so incredible because I think what most
people really don't know about you is you are so
self made. And it's important to be able to share
that with people who hit those roadblocks in life, who feel.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Like I have to have this traditional education.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I got to go to school, and I got to
do all these things to be successful.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I you know, while I was in New York, I
started my own company, Furniture Company Retail. I first started
online and then as that became successful, I started opening
up stores around the US New York, Miami, Atlanta, and LA.
And at one point I hired a CFO because I'm like,
I know my strengths, I know my weaknesses. I'm like,
I don't have a business background. And again, you think
(09:38):
that's what you need. Yeah, And he has an NBA
business and a good friend of mine, and I always
just kind of did what felt good, what I thought
would work, and I would come up with these ideas
and he'd be like no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no no what I'm like, let's.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Do it, let's try.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And one day he was like, you know, it's so
annoying me that these ideas you have that traditionally red
flags and alarms to start going off in my head
when you say these, because I have been I have
this business training, and I have this roadmap of how
you are to be a success in business, and half
(10:16):
the things, more than half the things you do do
not compute to that roadmap. And he's like, but I
think one of the reasons why you're successful is you
don't have those red flags and alarms going off in
your mind going through So it's how you do it.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
That's not how you do it.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
You just try things, and you're not afraid to try
things because you don't know what's right or wrong. You're
just like, hey, this sounds like a good idea.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Let's try it. If not, we'll pivot.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Yeah, And he's like, so, I think the key to
your success is you don't have that traditional education. So
for the people out there who think, oh, I can't
be an entrepreneur, I can't do my own thing, I
can't be a success because I either couldn't afford to
go to college because our system in this country sucks,
or it just life happened and education didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Don't let that stop you. You can do it. I
could do it. I'm a high school Joba.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
You have a good intuition about you where you constantly
were betting on yourself, And I think that's where people
go wrong. I think we live in a culture, in
a society that we feel comparison is it. We compare
fucking compare ourselves to everything anything.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Especially people like you and I who are on a
team yeah, Like all you do is.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Compare Why are they getting that?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And I'm not in this and that?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, how are they? I should be better, I should
be doing more. It is exhausting, and I think we
lose the plots so often because we get caught up
and constantly comparing ourself, our life, our partner, are, where
we're at and where we're going, and we lose sight
of reality where we start to live through the lens
of something else that's.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Just not not truth.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
One of the things you have to learn in life,
and it's been hard, but you have to learn in
the law of abundance, there is enough success out there
for everyone who wants it. One person's success it's like pie.
You know, one person's success doesn't mean less.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Success for you exactly. It's just it's their success. Be
happy for their success.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Put that energy out there and that good energy will
come back to you. Marginalized communities such as women, gays,
people of color, we have all been taught there's one
seat at the table, one and so we are the
least supportive people to each other because we feel like
we have to compete for that one seat. And I
(12:32):
think it's very important to realize like, you know, I
forget who who said this, but it was like, you
know what, nobody would give me a seat at the table.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
So I made my own table. And that's what we
have to do.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Recently, there was a show I had created and many
of the characters were gay, and it was going very far.
We were in very serious talks with a streamer, and
then another gay show got announced and they freaked out
and they.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Were like, oh no, it's too similar.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
And we're like, we actually not at all, like it's gay,
is not really similar, and they're like, oh no, no, no,
too similar. And so some of my colleagues that were
working on it with me like refuse to watch the
show that show because they're angry and not that show's
(13:23):
fault at all, the industry's fault. But I'm like, no,
we need to watch it. We need to support it.
Even if you don't watch, turn it on, give them
the views. Because when a gay shi se show succeeds,
we all do because studios are like, oh, that gay
show succeeded, Hey, let's green light some more. So, let's
not boycotts our communities projects because we're upset that that
(13:50):
project maybe picked over ours or there's not enough. Again,
there's not enough room at the table. We need to
create space for ourselves. And when our community is successful,
it breeds more success for all of us, both in
women and people of color and other marginalized communities like
gay people. And I mean, I remember, I mean to
this day, but especially when queer I first came out,
(14:11):
people were always like, oh, I'm sure, like the gay
community is just supporting you so much, and we're like,
oh my god, no, Like our community is the one that's.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
The worst to us, Like the.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Gay community did not support that show at all. They
would constantly come for us.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Like we don't need this the the and.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Again, I think it really came from a place of
I hate to use the word jealousy, but it kind
of was because they're jealous that we took that space
when they're so little, you know. But that just goes
back to the statement I made earlier, where when one
of us succeeds, it opens up more space for others
(14:55):
of us, more of us to succeed.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And I think that's so important to say, and I
say this often, and even my small little sports community,
it's like we have to continue standing on the shoulders
of each other and not on our necks, and it's
just the harsh reality. And the show has been so successful,
and it's really talk about acceptance and no judgment and
(15:20):
really learning the inner workings of something so beautiful. A
lot of people needed to see that, and a lot
of people needed some sort of understanding because there are
places like rural Missouri, some people go their whole fucking
lifetime without meeting a gay person that they know that
(15:42):
they know.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, that part's.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Let me correct, But I'm curious when we like kind
of peel back all these layers. And I, you know,
I was reading a lot on your bio and hearing
you were adopted, you know, as a mom who has
adopted both of her kids, and being queer in a
very small town where it's not accepted, and now building
(16:05):
this insanely.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Beautiful life for yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You're doing so much good in our community and in
the world, in our space. How did you with an
identity like being adopted and being queer and all these
all of these things?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
How did you pick design? How did it speak to you?
How did it choose you?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
As far as a career, I honestly kind of fell
into it okay, But as a child, I remember when
I was five or six years old, my mom had
decorated my room and like all red, red curtains, red bedspread, everybody,
and I was just like, I do not vibe with this,
(16:51):
Like I just there was something about it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
It just did not It did not make me feel good.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
So like my aunts and grandma would send me, you know,
these twenty dollars shecks for my birthday, and I remember
using my birthday money to buy new decor from the bedroom,
and I bought everything.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Blue because I'm like, blue makes me.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Feel better, and scientifically it has proven blue is a soothing,
relaxing color. So even as a child, I understood the
way your space can make you feel. But it was
never something that I thought. I was a career. You
know that we didn't have designers and the corn fields
of Missouri. You know, the only designers I was ever
(17:30):
supposed to do was designing Women, you know, a great
TV show in the eighties. But it wasn't until you know, again,
I left home at fifteen, no education. I was you know,
working at restaurants. I was working at gas stations, I
was working at the mall retail and I worked with
my way up in retail in a pretty decent career.
You know, I was the youngest store manager in Express history.
(17:53):
I wasn't even eighteen yet. I couldn't even operate the
trash compactor, but.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I was the manager of the store, and so I
was doing well with that, and I started I got
a job at.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
A retail furniture company out in Denver called the Great Indoors,
and it was this massive, massive, everything you could need
for your home. And I realized I really enjoyed that.
And so although my career was retail, when I moved
to York, I searched out another retail furniture job, and
that job was restoration hardware in New York. I was
(18:25):
a visual manager there, and so after Restoration Hardware, I
went to pet Bath and beyond horrible job. And then yeah,
I skipped Aroun a little bit to some other retail furniture.
But then I ended up at a company called Portico
and it was a nice high end furniture boutique, and
I started managing one of their stores and then became
(18:48):
a buyer, and then launched their e commerce division and
became the creative director of the company, and then Unfortunately,
the company was not managed very well and it ended
up going under. But at that point I was like,
I can do this, yeah, and so I took the
database that I had that I had built for them
for their e commerce division. And this was two thousand
(19:09):
and five. You know, there wasn't many people selling anything online.
But I registered Bobby Burke Home and I was like,
let me try this. Maybe I'll sell us so far
too while I look for another job. And I sold
more than a few and it did well, and it
was one of the I was one of the first
companies selling furniture online period, and so I opened up
my own stores after that when it was doing well,
(19:30):
because my biggest hurdle with online furniture was manufacturers didn't
want to sell to.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Me because I sold online. Like online, no one's going
to want to buy furniture online, and.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
That's crazy, you know, Little did they know fast forward
twenty years later, that's you know, I would will be.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Buying it exactly.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
But so I had to open up brick and mortar
stores to be taken seriously. So I did, and I
you know I would. I was a curator of pretty things.
I wasn't a designer, but I would help customers decorate
their homes. But I wasn't doing construction documents. I wasn't
doing electrical plans. Again, I was picking up pretty things.
But then in twenty fifteen I got a call from
(20:09):
Builder magazine and they were like, hey, we hired a
PR firm to tell us who the most well known
millennial teer designer in.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
The world was. And they said it was you. Wow,
And in my mind I was like, that's fun.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm not an a TEI designer, but great, Okay, what
can I do for you? And they were like, we
are building the show homes for the International Builder Show
with a builder in Las Vegas, and we want you
to design these homes because they're all about what millennials
are going to want in the next or in the
next decade, and so they're like, can you do that?
In my mind I was like, no, I don't. I
(20:45):
don't know, because again it wasn't just picking up pretty
things like it was construction documents, tile layouts, electrical plans
like needing to know CAD, none of which I knew.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
But of course I said, yes, of course I can
do that.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
We didn't have AI.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Then, no, there's no ai am.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
But I got on I got online, I got on YouTube,
I got on Google, and I manipulated floor plants and
photoshop instead of cat and I like, wow.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I made it work and I figured it out.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
And that was the same year we had decided to
move to La So I moved here to La. I
hired one assistant to help me install these homes. That
assistant now runs my design company, and ten years later
he's still with me and the house is were success.
And so that builder was like, hey, will you start
(21:28):
designing homes for our communities across the country. And to
this day, they's still my biggest client. I'm a spokesperson
for their company. Now they're the fourth or fifth largest
builder in the US Tripoint homes. And that's how I
got into design again. I kind of fell into it.
It was a combination of well.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It wasn't by accident. You worked your asshole.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
It, did you know? I worked years of my stores.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I worked seven days a week, sixteen hour days, three
hundred and sixty three days a year. It always frustrated
me that I had to close on things giving him
Christmas because my landlords were still making money. But I wasn't.
So Yeah, I worked my butt off and I'm at
the point in my life now where I still work hard,
but I don't work nearly that hard.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
It's kind of nice.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Well, you've earned that right, And I'm curious with this
beautiful story that's not linear, that we're a lot of
dead ends, and there was probably a lot of heartache,
and yeah, I felt when am I? Yeah, when am
I going to get my next paycheck? Am I going
to be able to do this? Like, I'm sure there's
so many questions, But I think as a creative myself,
(22:34):
like so much of my work and what I do
creatively is influenced by my story. I draw so much,
so much inspiration from it. Now, from your point of view,
when you're design you're designing these spaces for other people.
Do you bring yourself into these designs through your experience?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
So for me, I feel my sole job as a
designer doing someone's home is to make that home about them.
So there are a lot of designers who will design
it a very specific aesthetic because that is their aesthetic
and you can see it a mile away, and there's
nothing wrong with that. But for me, I feel like,
(23:17):
as a designer. It's your job to design for the client,
not for yourself. So I do not. You know, I
do have a very specific aesthetic, and there are some
clients who will come to me because they like that.
But if they like that, that's also their esthetic. Yeah,
but I will never force my design philosophy outside of
(23:38):
like function. You know, I will force my design for
philosophy on people about function, because I think before your
house is pretty, it needs to function properly, because the
pretty as of houses that don't function properly make for
a dysfunctional family. So I will force that on them,
but I won't force, you know, if they want me
to work in that awful purple critics at Gertrude, they.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Will just bite your tongue.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I find that I also, but.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
We also try not to take clients who have a
lot of stuff they already work in they want to
work in.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know, you have your book right at home, and
you did discuss a lot about the connection between design
and mental health, and I really want you to elaborate
on that because, just like you said, it really does
affect how families move, or people function within the chaos.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
So my book Right at Home, How Good Design Is
Good for the Mind, And it is literally all about
mental health and design. And it's something that I had
thought about for years, again going back to when I
was five years old, understanding that certain colors made me
feel a certain way, some good, some bad. It's also
something that I've had to learn as an adult, like
(25:12):
chaos around you creates chaos in your mind. I have
always had to keep a very tidy house because there's
enough chaos in my mind. I don't need it around me,
you know. I'm on the spectrum I have add I
have to have things a certain way, and people who
don't realize that their lives can be quite chaotic. And
(25:32):
I wanted to write a book about so many different
things with the home and health. I mean, there's a
chapter about the different temperatures of light. You know, from
cool white light like the ones that are honest right now,
but this type of light is energizing. The sun is
technically white light, and it is the brightest white in
(25:55):
the mornings.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And our bodies are species.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Every species on the planet has evolved to wake up
to that bright white light because the sun is the
brightest and the whitest in the morning. So in the
morning when you wake up, it is very important to
if you don't have access to sunlight like that, it
is important to have more of a bright white bull
like in your bathroom when you're getting ready in the morning,
because your body naturally wakes up to that more. But
(26:18):
in the evenings, what color is the sunset? It's more amber, right,
and so in the evenings it is more important to
have a lower Kelvin number, like a two to three
thousand as opposed to a six thousand in your home
at night, because that helps your body, your circadian rhythm
automatically start going, oh.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Hey, like it's time to go to bed.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
People who have problems sleeping, I always ask I was like,
do you dim your lights in the evening?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And they're like, what do you mean. I'm like, you know,
around eight o'clock, do you dim them a little bit?
You bring down? They're like, no, I don't.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I'm like, well, you are going into your room seconds
after you've turned off bright lights and you are telling
your body go to sleep. Your body's like, wait, you
didn't prepare me. You didn't tell me this was happening. Okay,
all right, let me start producing melatonin. All right, let's
get ready, and you know you'll lay in bed for
an hour or two just wide awake because you know
you didn't Just like, if you have an electric car,
(27:13):
you've got to precondition that battery sometimes to charge the best.
And so if you know you're going to charge it,
you hit that pre condition button and it starts preparing
your battery.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You're like, oh, I'm going to get a charge.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Your body needs to do that for sleep too, and
so again lights, there's a whole chapter about color theory,
about colors that are more soothing, colors that are more energizing,
So like if you're in an office space, like colors
that you should paint if you're wanting to be more energized.
There's a whole chapter on organization, and again, chaos around
(27:43):
you creates chaos in your mind. There's a chapter about
designing for your kids. Let's see, there's a chapter about
design and grief. You know, right as I was this
is about to go on tour with this, my my
father passed and I didn't realize that this chapter I
was writing would be such a help to my mother.
(28:04):
You know, it's because it's hard when you've been with
somebody for literally decades, like my parents had, kind of
changing your home up to where everything in your home
doesn't remind you of them, to where you can start
to heal and move on, but you don't want to
forget them. You don't want to ever fully move on.
(28:25):
So it's a fine balance between taking away the things
that remind you of them because it feels good, but
also taking away the things that remind you of them
because it hurts everytime you see them, and you know,
having that space in your house that is still for them,
where you can go and you can remember them, and
you can have your moments, you can have your cries,
but kind of making other parts of the home where
(28:45):
there aren't.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Just constant reminders. Yeah, so you you know, your little
heart can heal. But it's all about the way it
affects you.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And I think it is there's so much truth to
it because you and I share a very similar our
experience where you know, I didn't come out until after college.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Like honestly, not very long ago.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And I mean I remember telling my dad I was gay,
and my dad was like, sweetheart, I raised you like,
I know, sweetheart, we all knew. And I'm like, well,
I guess mom, didn't you. Yeah, Jesus, you would have
saved a lot of trauma. I'm artache. But my mom
(29:31):
used to always want my room to be pink.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It was always this pink, and you.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Know, me probably did know. She was like right now,
but it's you don't like pink.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I mean, I had.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
A pink little princess daughter that I'm really learning to
love it, but it's just not for me. And I remember,
like my mom was so sweet and she was like
do these like you know, we didn't come for much money,
so she would take like sponges and like do the
white and.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Used to sponge paint hue painting.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It was like her favorite thing to do.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
And I'm like, it's whole fucking room's pink.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It is all pink.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
My sister, my mom had decorated room and holly hobby
when she was little, and my sister is like tom
Boy horses. Yeah, she was not. She was not down
with the holly hobby.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
I always though, at one point my sister would also
be like, hey.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Guess what never has.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Like everyone now is like I'm like, you're sure anyone's straight?
At at this point, I'm like, where are we all
living this secret life?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But I do find it interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I heard this and read this that during the show.
You know, it's a very like queer eyes fucking emotional
it is. And I don't think audience understand how as
a queer person that opens a lot of wounds going
into homes like that and discussing topics of like heartache, heaviness,
(31:09):
and religion.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And you spoke.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
About how you had to process a lot going through
the show because it does open wounds.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Can you talk about that because I.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Don't think most people understand the weight.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Yes, I mean there were many episodes where I would
just I would go.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Home afterwards and I would just cry. Yeah, because there
was a lot of topics, whether it.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Be religion or parents or siblings or anything to do
with family that I at that point hadn't really processed. Again,
I didn't. I mean I for most of my young
adult life, I couldn't afford therapy.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
There weren't a lot of online options. There were nothing.
You know, it was either you spent two hundred dollars
for a session.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Which I you know, obviously didn't have. So I there
was a lot of things I had not processed before
the show. And you know, there was mainly with religion,
you know, because growing up, religion was.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
My whole life. I lived, eat, slept, breathed religion. I
was at the church literally every day. Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
And so when I lost that, I lost a part
of who I thought I was, this identity that I
had created for myself. And so for years I didn't
know who I was anymore. I was never really able
to find that identity again. So going into these episodes
where you know, like that one episode in season two
(32:40):
we're renovating a church, I wouldn't go in the church.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I don't know if you've seen that episode. It was
it was literally the town of Gay Georgia. Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And it was this lovely, amazing, beautiful woman named Tammy,
Mama Tammy. And my production crew told me we were
renovating a community center. Because the very first lunch I
had with the creator of the show and the producer
when I got cast, they asked me, we just want
to know is there anything you don't want to do? Like,
(33:15):
is there anything that would just be too much for you?
And I was like, please just never ask me to
go in a church.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
So they knew it would be a problem, and so
they lied to me about it and said we were
doing a community center. And granted it was the community
center next to the church, yeah, but it was still
it's the church.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
So when.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
We get to the church, we're getting a tour of
the property, and we toured the community building that we're
going into and I went into that. It was fine,
you know, that was the space I needed to redo.
And they're like, oh, let us go ahead and show
you the sanctuary, and all the other guys went in
and I just I stopped at the front door, and
the guy was like, oh, come.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
On in, and I was like, I'm good, and he's
like what. I was like, yeah, no, no, I'm good.
You guys, you guys, go ahead, You're fine. I'm just
I'm I'm I'm not walking in that space.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
And I got in so much trouble that day from
the creator of the show.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
He was so mad at me.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
He thought I had ruined that episode and it turned
out to be one of the most powerful moments.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Of the entire entire series that to this day.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
I get dms and people walking up to me on
the street, saying that that was one of the most
powerful moments of their life because it finally gave them
permission to say no.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
This was traumatizing to me. This destroyed me. This broke
my heart.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
I gave you way everything and you turned your back
on me. Simply because I am who I am. I
don't have to pretend like that's not the case. I
don't have to pretend like everything is okay. I can
say this is where I draw the line, and religion
is dead to me.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
And I've so many people because of course it's a show,
and I still have to sometimes in the end act
like everything's great when it's not.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And so many people are like, oh, that that show
really healed you, didn't it.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I was like, no, it didn't, you know, mamma and
Tammy was lovely though, So in the end, I was like,
I'll do whatever, Mammy, tam mommy and mommy, mommy, Gamy.
Mamma Tammy asked, and I will come into that church
and I will sing with her and I will give
her a hug. But I was like, no, it did
not help me. I still feel the exact same way
I did before.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Well, I appreciate you sharing that and that that is powerful.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Where are you at now?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
How has that opened up healing growth space for other things?
Like do you feel like you're moving in a place,
in a direction where you're betting on yourself again and
being happy and complete?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:41):
I think so, especially as you know, when you come
out of a team your identity yeah, become said team yeah,
And you know, coming out of a very emotionally charged,
emotionally draining, emotionally healing show for nine seasons, it was
(36:06):
hard a to make the decision to leave, but b
to find myself again as an individual, And I think
I have.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
You know, it's been fun.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
I took some time off, and you know, I have
a lot of new exciting things that are some have
been announced, some haven't been announced yet.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
But yeah, I think I am moving in a great direction.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know, I think we all go through it.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I'm going through it in real time now being a
newly retired athlete and being a mom and all of
these things. I'm not who I used to be.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
What did that.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Look like for you again, as you know, as being
a part of team, being a part of the Fab five,
Like that's who I was.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I was Bobby from the Fat Five.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
You know, every every interview I did, every show I
was on, you know, was introduced as.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Bobby from the Fab Five, you know.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
And so for that being almost a decade, I would
still find myself like Bobby from Querai, like Bobby from
the Fat Five, and I'm like, wait.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
No, not anymore.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
No, So you know, I had to start finding myself
again as an identity separate from that because that show
was put first for so long, and the experience that
our heroes would have was put first for so long.
You know, there was obviously, I think the world has
(37:30):
figured out. It wasn't always a peachy place behind the
scenes there, but that was to allow that to affect,
to affect the experience our heroes. Heroes had was never
an option. So it was always just kind of handle it,
deal with it, you know. So finding myself after that
(37:55):
was hard.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
But and do you feel like you're on the right track?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I do?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
We look like it.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You have a beautiful spirit to you and it's so infectious.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I love spending time with you.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I always ask this question on the show, what moment
like in your life and in this journey both personally
professionally have really split you wide open that it really.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Changed it all for you.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
What moment?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, what moment in your life was like really defining moment.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
I mean, as much as we've talked about finding myself
outside of Queer Eye, Queeri was an extremely defining moment. Yeah,
you know, the original Queer Eye for the Strake. I
was a defining moment for me to see five real
life gay people, you know, because back then the only
(39:05):
gay person on television was Ellen and that was very
fresh in news. Yeah. I don't even think Elton John
was out back then. Wow, you know, So to see
five gay guys on TV who were real, They weren't acting,
they had real careers, they were a real success that
(39:26):
really was very inspiring for me to see that I
too can succeed, you know because growing up, once I
came out, I was basically told I would never amount
to anything, I would never be accepted, I would never
be loved, And so to see those five guys prove
all that wrong was inspiring to me. And so for
(39:47):
me to be able to be on the same show
that did that for me and do that for millions
of other little queer kids around the world. Was a
huge defining moment for me. It was kind of full circle.
It was me being able to give back like the
original guys.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Did for me.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Now you're so forward, facing so many people, so many
people recognize and know you. How has that impacted your life?
Speaker 4 (40:12):
I mean there are many, many, many positive things, as
you know about being a public figure. Yeah, but there
are also a lot of negative things, you know. I
try not to dwell on the negative things. Some of
those negative things are being always recognized, people thinking they
(40:35):
know who you are, people coming to judgments about you,
about who you are when they really don't know who
you are. But my show has been has had such
an impact on people, whether I am if I'm just
trying to get a coffee at a coffee shop, and
in turn, I amn't there for thirty minutes holding somebody
(40:56):
as they cry, telling me the story about how the
affected them or their sibling or their parents or you know.
I got picked up from the airport once by a
driver and he was a white cis gendered male, probably
in his seventies.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
And he proceeded.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
You know, again, I was in a rush. I you know,
had had a long day. I didn't you know, I
had enough emotions on my own. I didn't need more.
But he sat there and told me how his daughter
was trance and him and his wife didn't know, didn't
know how to react, didn't know how to support her, didn't.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Know how to accept her. Just it was so foreign
to them.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
But watching Queer Eye healed that brought them together, allowed
them to look past what other people were telling them
and realized that they just needed to love their daughter,
and that's all they needed to do. That's all she
needed from them, was for them to love and support her,
because she was strong enough to do other things on
her own as long as she had that love and support.
(42:02):
And so I get to hear all these amazing stories.
So again, one of the cons is that sometimes when
I really just want to coffee, I end up holding
somebody as a cry. But one of the pros is
I get to hold somebody while they cry and talk
about how that show changed their life and change their
famili's life, changed their kids' life, change their siblings' life.
So yeah, it's changed my life, and you know, I
(42:24):
can't always get to an airport. I've honestly, I have
missed some flights.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Because of that, I have learned now sunglasses, earbuds, baseball cap.
Sorry guys, but I do hear you. I just act
like I don't because I'm running to my blight.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Listen, if you see Bobby in a hat, sunglasses, and
ear pods, you probably wear the wires too, so you
really let people know not.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
To fuck with you sometimes. But it's funny. I often
won't even have anything on in them. I will just
have noise cancelations. Gets again, I'm on the spectrum. I
need that noise.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Cancelation just to block the world out.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
It's I have so many cheap, crap pairs of headphones
that I've had to buy at the airport because I've
left mine at home, and I'm like, i can't get
through the airport on time without that because people will
stop me. But yeah, I'm forgetting what the question was.
Everythink how the show has changed that? But yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
It's difficult because people want fame and fortune, and I'm
telling people you don't want fame.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Well here's the thing, Yeah, you don't think I forget
who sings the song witch?
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I said what I said, I'd rather be famous instead?
Is it? Who do? But I always hear that. I'm like,
I don't. But here's the thing, Like, I feel like.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
As I don't, I hate to use the word celebrity,
I hate to use the word public figure, but I
have to use the word something. So I think I
feel like as people in the public eye, like we
are public figures. We're very lucky because there are a
lot of things that we have access to. There are
a lot of great things that happened to us because
of that. And I feel like we owe the public
(44:07):
who puts us in this position a certain amount of
respect and a certain amount of willingness to give back
to them, Meaning that time in the coffee shop when
I'm giving back to this person who has loved and
supported me through the TV screen for years, I feel
that we owe them that. And you know, there is
a new generation of celebs as of recently who don't
(44:30):
feel that, who are very publicly my privacy time this me, me, me, me, me,
you know, And I'm like, well, if it's that hard
to be famous, don't go away, go away. These are
people who are spending their time, money, their money, their
(44:51):
emotions to make us who we are, and to dismiss them,
to say you owe me mice within reason, Yes, there's
a level of respect that still needs to be there,
but to to be like, no, I'm not above.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, exactly, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
And you know who else says this really well was
Billy Jean King. When I got to sit down with her,
she says, you know, she's like I was. I always
knew when I stepped on the court that all of
these people were paying to watch me and they had
to make hard choices in their life to choose that moment. Yes,
and I am not above any fucking person there. And
(45:36):
I think sometimes we forget it because who's who's paying
for this beautiful life you've created. It's it's the people
who have shown up over and over and over again,
who have supported you.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
And to not show up for them, I think it's
just it says, it's exactly who you are, exactly, and
that is not the person I wanted to be.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
And with that, I'm gonna ask you the last question,
because I can keep you here all and I love you,
If you could design a safe space for your younger self.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Now, if you could go back in time.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
What would that look like for you, that little boy
from rural Missouri.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
I mean, I think it's safe.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
If I could redesign a safe space for me, is
I think it would be a much more diverse space.
You know, I grew up in an incredibly undiverse world,
and I think that's why I immerse myself in so
much diversity now. And I was posted pictures earlier today
and I'd like, and all these photos are like, I'm
(46:36):
the only.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
White person in the photo, and I love it, you know.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
I was like, it's always funny to me, Like I
went from growing up at a very undiverse world to just.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
Wanting to complete opposite of them. No, So I yeah,
I think.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
If I could, you know, design a space for myself,
it would be a much more diverse one. Because the
problem with our country right now is everybody is in
their own bubble. Every especially in the middle of America,
people only listen to people with their point of view.
They're only around people that are just like them, and
that breeds more hate because then they're raising children to
(47:11):
think like that too, and it's getting worse and worse
and worse. So for children to grow up in a
more diverse space, creates better human beings.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more. And I'm I'm
glad I get to share this journey with you because
I do. I say this often, but sharing space with
you is I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
So thank you, thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Thanks, and tell everyone what you're doing now now that
you're working on You're working on so many fucking projects.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
At this point, I cannot, I can't.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Say anything, but there's a lot of cool things.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
One yeah, one show that I have announced. It's a
show called Strikers. It is a sports comedy. Hey, it
is about cricket, which did you know that after European
football saying huge, cricket is the second largest sport on
the planet, just not here, but yes, he is starting
(48:06):
to be here though, four hundred new leagues in the
US in the last couple of years alone, So cricket, cricket,
cricket is coming. But cricket is a huge sport. So
I mean, I hate to compare a show to another show,
but just kind of to give you this, kind of
like ted Lasso, but for cricket.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
You know, a good warm hearted sports comedy.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
We have some amazing writers on it, two of the
writers from the Real o'neils and from Fresh off the Boat.
We just finished our pilot with Josh and Jonathan, so
it's a very diverse show. As of now, I think
I am the only white person on the I was
like the only one person he had that there will
be more team members cast on the that are on
(48:48):
the cricket teams. That there will be, but I play
a sports agent and it's it's just going to be
a really feel good show that we need that. Yeah,
we really need it, and I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Obviously this will be kind of my first time acting.
I've done a little bit of acting. It's funny. I
did a guest appearance on Alex and Katie once years ago,
and I was supposed to be playing myself, which I
was like, oh, how easy will that be?
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I'm playing myself? But then I get there and I'm like,
who am I? Who am I?
Speaker 4 (49:22):
And I'm like, wait, no, playing yourself especially it's hard,
especially playing yourself and not like I queer. I play myself,
but I'm also everything that comes out of my mouth.
I'm deciding what comes out of my mouth, so it
really is me. But when you're acting on a show
as yourself, you're.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Still there's lines.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
The lines are still written by the writers, and so
I was especially like a lot of the lines that
were written, I'm like, this is me.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
But then I'm like, well it was. It was really
fucked with my head to this just be you, and
I'm like, but am I. So it's not my.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
First time acting, but it is my first time acting
as a character outside of you know, high school musicals
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
You know, you're gonna be great.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
The first of many, and there's some design shows that
will be announced soon as well. It's a game show
I'm working on right now, which has been a dream
of mine forever.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
I wanted to host a game show for you. That's
the one who knows about that yet. But that's it's
not for sure yet, but we'll put it out there.
It's going to be in the universe. I'm really diving,
diving back into the deep end.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
It's good though. We need you back. I want to
see your face.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
All over the place, so I feel like it's it's
when I'm at home, So tell everyone where.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
They can find you.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
So my Instagram's at Bobby, My TikTok's at Bobby, threads
at Bobby.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
Everything is just at Bobby.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
That's so good to see you, Bobby. Thank you for
coming on the show. I adore you and I can't
wait for what's next. Everyone go check out Bobby on
social channels and your new show coming out?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
When is it coming out? Do you even know when
it's coming out?
Speaker 4 (51:01):
We were going to be shooting it this summer, okay,
but there is another show that I haven't been able
to announce yet, so you're busy. Was in negotiations before
that that has taken presidents, so we won't be filming
it until.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Next year now, but it's coming. It's coming.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
But yeah, so I would since we're filming it next year,
it's probably going to be out like early twenty twenties.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Okay, got you know how the BIS was?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I sure do? Thirty four ye learning reale time?
Speaker 4 (51:28):
Yeah, so best case scenario early twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Great, So good to see you. Thanks for coming on
the show, and we will see everyone next week on
another episode of Wide Open with Ashland.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Wide Open with Ashland.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Harris is an iHeart women's Sports Production. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borka Correo, Emily Maronov,
and Lucy Jones. Production assistant from Malia Aguidello. Our executive
producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our
(52:06):
editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm Your
Host Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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