May 19, 2025 • 58 mins
In this episode, Ashlyn sits down and turns the mic on her friend, journalist and trailblazer Cari Champion for a candid conversation about carving out space for vulnerability, navigating the demands of a high-profile career, and her mission to amplify the voices of Black women. Cari shares the importance of self belief and representation in a world that often overlooks the power and resilience of marginalized communities.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Carrie Champion, my boover.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh no, you're my boo. I had a question you first,
but that's okay. We won't get into that if we
won't tell Sophia she understands.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to wide open. Thank you, so happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thank you for having me. Let me say this, I
am very proud of you because you're so open and honest,
and I am encouraged every time I see you. I'm
all like, she's just herself and no matter how uncomfortable
it is, she's just herself. So cheers, cheers, a thank you,
thanks for being here, of course.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
And yes, we asked for wine and we made everyone
go run down, and because it's necessary, because this is
this is my show, and I can do what I want.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You can do what you want, and it's needed and
necessary and who cares if you're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, it is so necessary. And it's five o'clock somewhere somewhere,
not here, but somewhere. I'm okay with all of that.
More wine, please, I tell you what this is what
I'll start. I'll start the show off. The second I
met you, I felt so safe with you. I did.
I felt so safe with you, and I felt such
a real connection, like on a like serious, serious level.
(01:18):
And I am so happy that our friendship now is
just like blooming. I want to spend time with you.
I just invited you to friends giving. You are onto.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I can't kids around, we getting hit, were dressing up,
We're doing all of that. Well, I think the feeling
is mutual. Okay, So I've always obviously known you, and
then you came up my Amazon show and I was
just like, she's just so pretty, which you get all
the time, right, you get that often. And it sounds
very vague what I'm about to say, but there is
(01:51):
something about someone who has a pleasant face to look at.
This is what society is. It's just how it is.
But it's not just that. It's your heart. And I
think what we don't see a lot of nowadays, especially
in our business, is authenticity. I'm at the space where, yes,
if you, I'm not trying to be your friend just
to be like performing for Instagram or I don't need
(02:13):
all that. I know enough famous people. I can hang
around all the famous people if I wanted to, and
post the photos and show. But you, above all of
all the women we work because we went to can
together be sure to you. To me felt the most
at home and grounded and honest. And I think, especially
(02:34):
for black women, it's hard for us to be vulnerable,
and you're very vulnerable, and it's hard for me to
do that.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I really find that seeing people is probably one of
my greatest gifts. Really, I do, because I think you
have no idea what someone's walking through, and if you
just make eye contact, if you just stay present in
a moment, it could be five seconds, five minutes, five hours. Yeah,
you have no idea the impact you can make on
(03:00):
someone's life.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I felt that from you, and that's also uncomfortable for
someone who like when I sometimes when I go into spaces,
I'm very guarded only because this business as yeah, and
the world has you know what I mean. Business in
the world stops you from feeling safe, I think.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And you know, it's interesting about that because like we've
been through some shit, yeah right, So it's such a
testament to who we are and how we lead that
we still choose to be kind because I do think
kindness is currency. And I say that to my three
year old. We have three rules. It's the rules are
(03:37):
the rules. Sharing is caring, and kindness is currency, and
I think it's a beautiful gift to be able to
lead your life that way, even when so much trauma
and so much shit has happened that could completely damage
you and make you different.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
One one of my you are so right, one of
my really good friends said to me, you still are
soft even though everything in the world has told you
that you can be tough, and you can be hard,
and you can close that you can close them off,
but you're still soft and open when the world says
to you, why should you be? So that is a gift,
that is a superpower that you have. And I and
(04:15):
and and it's also why people are drawn to you.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I appreciate that. Yeah, but let's let's get to you.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I'm going to read a few things here. Carrie is
a broadcast journalist, sports anchor, and television personality and an
incredible human. You are absolutely stunning like you are. It's like, girl,
I don't know why you're on TV modeling. Okay, So
true story.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When people give me compliments about what I look like,
I get a little uncomfortable because it feels odd to me.
I grew up with a mom who always would tell
me how smart I was, and she did not necessarily
tell me I wasn't pretty, but it was always about
you're so smart, you can do all the things you want.
You can change the world. And when people say that
to me, I'm all like, oh, think I feel it,
but I don't, you know, I get I get it.
(05:00):
I get it a lot of y'all, and so I'm like, Okay,
I guess I'm cute that you know, but I thank
you for that. It's so uncomfortable. That's okay. Are you
uncomfortable compliments? No, I I tell you what.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm in the era of receiving. Okay, So when someone
says something nice, this is I'm going to help you here.
When someone says something nice it makes you feel uncomfortable,
which were women. It happens all the time. I just say, yeah,
I'm receiving that. Thank you, okay, even when it's hard,
I receive it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I receive it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I receive it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I receive it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Thank you, honey.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So for nearly a decade, you were an anchor and
hosts on ESPN, and you've been a long advocate for
women of color and media, which I definitely want to
get to, specially raising a black daughter. You have your
podcast now. I was on your show on Amazon. It
was the Carry Champion Show, which was so much fun.
(05:57):
I feel like that was when even through the camera,
I was like, Oh, I love you. Sound like I've
known her in a different life.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Same, same, same.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
You're an absolute star.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Thank you, and I'm so happy for you to be.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I receive that. So I'm so happy for you to
be on this show.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I'm happy for you to have this show.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
So tell me. I want to know about this because
you're always the one interviewing people.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Oh and you know why I do that. I like
to talk to people because I hate to tell my story.
For a very long time, I was always embarrassed. I
have the hardest time in relationships being completely naked. I
have the hardest time and friendships that I haven't had
over for a long period of time and being naked.
And what I naked is is showing up. I grew up.
(06:42):
You know, it's and it's interesting, and I don't know
everyone's story, but like you know, you go through therapy,
and I'm a big advocate of therapy, and you start
realizing who you are and why you're built that way.
So asking questions is just one, I'm naturally curious, but
two it helps me avoid talking about me. And I'm
right now as we're doing this interview, I'm like Carrie,
(07:03):
don't ask her a question, be quiet, And I'm telling
myself that so I won't have to avoid it growing
up as a And I'm not speaking for all black women,
but I am speaking for many of us. Vulnerability is
often considered weakness because, you know, survival of the fittest.
You know, sometimes we don't have partners. Our parents didn't have.
(07:26):
My mom didn't. She raised me by herself. My dad
wasn't around. You hear this story, You hear this story.
So the way you're raised And my friend said this
the other day, your mom raised you to be the
man that you should need. Literally wow, like literally without
even without even thinking about it, Like she raised me
(07:47):
to be the man that I would need. And she
wasn't thinking, oh, that's too alpha, or you're gonna turn
men off, or you're gonna turn someone off of that.
She just wanted me to take care of myself because
life had shown her that if you do not take
care of yourself, who else will. And I think I
have spent a lot of my adult life, trying to
undo the alpha of me because not in a bad way,
(08:11):
but because being vulnerable is also powerful. Telling your truth,
showing your scars is also powerful. Taking all the what
did Brene Brown say wants? She said, once you, once
you reveal your secrets, you take all the power away,
You take all the shame away. We should bring shame back,
by the way, Yes, we should be shaming people left
and right. We don't do that anymore. People need to
(08:31):
be shamed, especially after I know what, So I just try.
It's just hard, you know. It really is a tough
thing to be my myself and I and I and
I've battled with that in terms of allowing myself to
be shown to people, and I've battled with that. But
when I feel safe, you're getting it all, whether you
want it or not, you're getting it all, whether which is.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
What you're getting, whether you want When we were in
Can together at the Women's Sports House, we had so
many good conversations and we were in such an interesting
place in our life. But before I get to that,
I have one question, and I like to start every
single show off with, oh, which is? And it's so
important you were because you were really getting into it,
(09:14):
and before you go all the way, I really want
to ask you this question. I find that in life
there's always one moment that split you wide open. Yeah,
that changes you forever. What was that moment for you? Ooh?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I had a series of several things happened to me
when I was seven years old. I was in second grade,
and I had always felt like I was different and
set apart. I just always felt that I just grew
up and I felt different from my family, from my cousins,
from everyone around me. I felt different. But when I
was seven years old, my mother took me out of
(09:54):
my local elementary school, which was in West la and
she busted me to school in the valley. You know,
you very familiar with California, so she bussed me to
a school in Northridge. And that meant my whole schedule
would change. So instead of being at school at you know,
nine am in the morning, I would have to get
up at six and take a bus at seven to
get to school just before nine o'clock. I had a
(10:14):
full work day at seven years old, and then by
the time I got home, I was home at four
or five o'clock. Literally, from the time I was seven
years old up until I got to high school and
I went to this school I was. It was it
was a bussing program that they had in LA and
I remember they had me in classes for kids who
(10:35):
weren't that smart and I was, and they had me
reading at a level that was way underneath my level.
But thank goodness, there was a teacher who said, no,
I think this. I think you're too smart for that.
And she made sure that just because I came from
the black school, that I was treated fairly and to me,
in that moment, the power of belief happened, and it
(10:57):
was it was validating for me in a lot of ways.
Although I didn't know it, but this woman believed in me.
She didn't even know me. But there was a reputation
of all these kids coming from LA and they're not
that smart, and we got to start them off here,
and she was like, oh, no, you're really smart. Let
me move you to gifted. I went from remedio to
gifted classes in like two weeks because she saw my
(11:20):
potential and how smart I was and how I was
out performing other kids. And so that belief in me
at seven years old changed everything. But all the while
when I would leave this beautiful school, I would go
back home, and we didn't necessarily live in the hood,
but it wasn't a great neighborhood. And I remember coming
home from school on the bus and opening up the
(11:42):
door and the apartment had been robbed. And I was
a last kiy kid. I had a key around my
neck and I undid the door, and I remember I
would have to call my mom. And I called my
mom and I said, hey, Mom, did you come home,
because like the TVs pushed towards the door, and I
think the glass is broken. Seven years old, I don't know.
And my mother literally was like, oh, we've been robbed.
(12:04):
You get out of the house right now. So I
hoog up the phone and left. Seven years old. Could
you imagine like a full grown adult, you couldn't. You
could even tell that story today without somebody being like, Okay,
where's child Services? And so I walked to my grandmother's
house and waited there. But there were two things that
life told me. One, always believe in yourself. But two,
(12:28):
you are in a world where you're going to have
to find for yourself no matter what My mother intended,
because she did her best, her very best. But she mean,
she was twenty and she and she hates to hear
stories of me talking about when I was seven years
old and I used to come home by myself and
walk to the bus stop by my say, she hates
(12:48):
those stories, and I understand why. But it's a part
of my truth and I had to find for myself
at seven years old. So those were the moments that
really make me. Those two moments really made me and
define who I am today.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You and I have very similar upbringings. I had two
parents same you know, both were in the house, hated
each other, lived totally different lives. You know, my mom
struggled with extreme mental health issues. We didn't have the
(13:20):
resources or the money to get those sorted. Add on addiction, drugs, alcohol.
I mean, the whole house was absolutely chaotic and wild
and yeah, just you know, I would, you know, knock
on people's doors. I had a nan across the street
and I'd be like, I'm hungry, you know, Like we
(13:41):
were raised in a different time where you know, we
were out on you know, hanging on the streets. We
had bike crews, skateboarding crews. We were playing like hide
and go seek all hours of them like it was
just different. It was a different time, honestly, but it
was a hard time hard. And what I'll say is
(14:04):
until I became a parent is the second I forgave
my parents. Yeah. Why because it's the hardest thing I've
ever done, and I have access to things that they
could only dream of.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Powerful. Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And now my relationship with my parents is it's literally
the best it's ever been. Because I resented them. It
was the reason I am who I am is out
of spite and shame and I wanted a better life
for myself and my kids. And I was so fucking competitive. Man,
(14:39):
I was so competitive and people thought I was nuts.
But the reason I was so competitive is because I
just didn't want to go home.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I didn't want to go home back to that life.
I didn't want to go home to hearing my mom
cry and the pain and struggle of There's one memory,
and I really haven't shared this. I remember we were
on food stamps at one point and I was in
the publics like you know, check out line, and at
(15:09):
the time, there was something she wasn't allowed to get
that was considered like hot food, okay, and I just
I could feel my mom so embarrassed and shrink, and
I just was like, I'm gonna do this because I
want more for myself, but I want more for them.
(15:31):
And when people, you know, criticize me so much, which
we'll get to in our work environment of being, you know,
I just didn't take bullshit. I was there to serve
a job. I was always. I chose every single day
to be the best, to be excellent, to be great
because I had something. I didn't have plan B. I
(15:52):
didn't have mommy and Daddy helping me. I had no
fucking choice, and it was survival for me.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Literally, when people are like, WHOA, she's too competitive. Oh
she's mean to me, Oh she No, I'm holding you
to a standard of which you'll never fucking understand because
I'm not going back. So if it's me and you, yeah,
I'm gonna fucking eat you. It's yeah, it's not simple.
If it's me, it's me, it's every time. I'm choosing
me every time.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
What you just said helped me in a lot of
ways because I am uber competitive in a very different way,
but I am intense. I hear that all the time,
Like when I'm at work, my friend's like you're so
intense or people I work with it like she's a lot.
But that is because I'm surviving. I have to survive.
I don't. I want to survive and I don't want
(16:43):
to go back. I think that drives you more than
it can drive anyone. And I think when it's in
a woman, it feels uncomfortable because you're not used to it.
But it's survival. I remember thinking I grew up middle class.
I remember thinking, oh, we're fine. Yeah. I was like
I don't, this is great. I was happy. I didn't
know anymore. I had what I wanted to have, but
I but life was introduced to me extremely early. Like
(17:07):
I knew there was no Santa Claus by the time
I was five. I knew that my mother would try
to get me those Christmas presents if you could, but
maybe not. I knew that there were things that we
could have and things that we just couldn't have, Like
I wasn't allowed to have it. That's just because. But
I also remember, because I was going to that school,
being bussed at school, those kids, because kids are cruel
(17:29):
as hell, would always remind me where I came from,
and they would be like, don't you live in downtown LA.
Isn't it poor down there? And I remember being like, no,
it's not, because I really didn't think I lived that way.
But there was this you have to prove yourself and
that's what I felt. And all of that just permeates
(17:51):
your entire existence until you get comfortable enough to know
that you don't have to do it. But you just
look back and you're like, oh, these are the things
that made me like, These are the things that made
me really truly made me want to either fit in
or made me feel like I had to prove and
it was hard. Like I kid you not, Ashlynn. My
mother hates to hear these stories, but I told her
(18:13):
that is who I am. But when you just said
what you said about having kids made you forgive your parents,
I was like that I need to adopt some kids
because I need to forgive her. Yeah, I need to
forgive her because she did the best she could.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
She yes, and she did, and what they had access to,
Oh my god, my parents worked so hard, so hard,
And I'm like, when did you find time to sleep?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Never? Never?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
And I just remember, and even to this day, I
do not keep can goods in my home because I
lived off of it. Oh, we live. There would be
tent sales. I will never forget this. At the BX
Commissary because my grandparents were military, they would have sales
when it was like close to X, you know, expiring
(19:05):
or it already expired, and we would stock up on
like just can good sloppy Joe's can cream cream, corn
can green beans. Like I won't I won't touch it.
I just won't touch it because it makes me think
about how hard that was. So hard, and it is
a bit of stubbornness, a little bit sure because you
(19:28):
know there's no there's there's not an issue with eating
canned goods, but it has this I just have this
weird memory that I'm like, not here, not now. Too hard.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, I don't want it. So interesting about what you
won't do anymore from your childhood.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
We'll be right back. I really want to know carry
how this shape you like, you know, our experiences, why
(20:08):
we chose the life we did, Like, what was the
moment you were like I got to get out of this.
I don't want I need to break this cycle. I'm
smart I'm beautiful, I have all these things. I knew
it at seven. Yeah, now what, like, where did Carrie go?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I remember being a little kid and the newscaster came
to our came to our local neighborhood, and we were
cleaning up with brooms, and I remember they aired the
what they called a closer or just like a happy
story at the very end of the end of the newscast,
and it was me and my neighborhood friends just cleaning
up the neighborhood. And before that, the only images I
had seen of black people were like, they were gangsters,
(20:47):
they were doing wrong. There were a lot of negative
stereotypes out there about black folks. And when I saw that,
I was like, well, how powerful. What if I could
do a bunch of stories that were all good about
what's happening in good neighborhoods because I don't feel like
my family is every that I see on TV. They're
not always going to jail, They're not always And I
was really driven by that pureness of wanting to tell
(21:09):
the story of a culture that I was a part of.
And it was like, if I look back, you know,
teenage pregnancy was a real thing. My cousin was all
my family members were pregnant when they were like fourteen
and fifteen. In and out of jail. It was really
true stories in and out of jail, all those stories,
all of those stories. But I still felt different and
(21:30):
set apart, and I felt like my job was to
I was always I Always when I saw Oprah on TV,
I was like, I want to do what she's doing.
Something about this woman feels familiar, in captivating and honest,
and I was drawn to her and I was connected
to her, and I would just stand in front of
TV and just just look at her and be like, Okay,
she reminds me of my you know what I mean,
my auntie. I want to be like Oprah, like we
all do. And that was my goal. I always wanted
(21:53):
to speak for those who can speak for themselves. I
always wanted to just do the right thing. And I
think I think the part of me that that grew
up wanting to fit in, the part of me that
grew up wanting to prove, the part of me that
was like I can do more, was really just speaking
for myself, like me saying I want to speak for
(22:14):
someone who can speak for themselves. I was just trying
to say, see, look, I deserve, I deserve and I
wasn't saying that in those words, but I think all
of my experiences made me want to just show people
that I deserve a chance. Let this little black girl in.
She deserves a chance. Give her the opportunity and she'll
run with it, and and and for better or for worse.
(22:39):
It's helped me. But I am still very like I'm
no matter how tough I am, I'm hypersensitive. You know,
we're though, like you know what I mean, And it
doesn't show up, Yeah, it's not. It may not always
come off like, oh I should be shedding tears. It
comes off like, well, I'm with the shits. Like I'm
with the shits, you know what I mean, And that
is the only way I can protect myself. But I'm
(22:59):
super say, like, if I think I'm with people and
I like them and I learned that they're not as
nice or they might be talking crap about me, that
hurts my feelings because I was open and I was
vulnerable to you and I wanted to let you in.
And so I finally get to the point of my
life where I'm still pushing through, like I and I'm
sure you've pushed through. But then I get to the
point of my life where like I'm like, fuck it,
(23:20):
I am who I am? Yeah, I don't know, I can't.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And you don't have to apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, And it's a great thing. If you get it,
you get it, and if you know, you know. But
if you don't know, I feel sorry for you because
you're missing out. Well.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I just I love when you talk about Oprah because
this is what we're missing is representation. Yeah, I'll say
it over visibility representation for sure. You know. I love
that you were able to see that on TV as
a seven year old, because I did. I read this
(23:51):
story about that AHA moment for you when you're sitting
there and your you know, grandma probably is like, get
your ass back too close to the TV. I don't
know if that was your mom, are you granny both?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Why are you close sitting on top of the TV.
They're like, you don have bad eyes?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Too late, it's late, but it's you know, seeing is
really believing, right. I think for women, we're always told
to not take up too much space, don't be too confrontational,
don't don't say too much on this topic, and it's
like the second we do, we're labeled as complicated, confrontational,
(24:27):
all of these things, a bitch or this and that.
I can imagine has a beautiful, smart black woman going
into TV, going into journalism is.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
How dare you?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I can't imagine what you face, But you're still here.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's hard, and it's still hard. It's still hard. Here's
the thing I think, like I think when I went
to ESPN. Well, first of all, I started off in
local news and I worked my way up and I
got fire for cursing on air. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Tell me everything. West Virginia's my girl goes. Grew up
in Pasadena.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I grew up in Pasadena. I drive my Nissan Ultima
to West Virginia to get my very first TV job.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And you went to UCLA. I want to talk about that,
right and yeah, now shipped to West virgin Ucla.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I'm in Westwood is the center of everything. And then
I've only lived and as you will know, California is
arguably one of the most liberal states. Everybody's doing whatever.
You mind your business, no one cares, No one cares.
You just mind your business. And I and I get
a job in Bluefield Oakley, West, Virginia market one something
at the time, probably two hundred now, and I and
(25:36):
I was a one man band. They gave me a car,
they gave me a camera, and they said in a
tripod very much like what you see here, and they
were like, good luck, go out there and do it.
So I was like, Okay, I'll go and do it.
And at the time you speak of representation, there were
only really two women who were really well known, and
any woman who was doing kind of what I was
doing kind of looked like Katie Kirk, you know, short hair.
(25:57):
Oprah was aspirational because she was sitting and she had
already did. Katie felt very newsy to me. And I
wanted a big, cheap suit in a short haircut. And
I was, ohka, God bless me, I mean, oily skin
make up here breaking up.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
We need a picture.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm I literally have to go way. I got to
go call and ask for a photo because it was
this disaster. But it was my very first job, and
I loved it, and I loved it and I loved
it and I loved it. I didn't care how the
mayor walked up to me and said, Hey, do you
want to meet our colored lady. This was not nineteen nineteen,
this is two thousand and one. And I was like,
(26:35):
you're wet now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
She was like, our.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Colored lady, you guys will have a good time. And
I was like, oh, she thinks that's okay and I didn't.
And then I remember I had befriended a few people there,
and I was like, gosh, the mayor called me colored.
She was like, you've never been called colored. I was like, oh,
I don't know. I literally drove from two thousand and
one to nineteen seventy six cause I don't know where
I drove to. It was like I was driving backwards.
(26:58):
But it didn't offend me because she didn't you want
to hear something crazy. She didn't want. She wasn't saying
that offensively. It was a term that she had been
using since she was since the beginning of life, and
I wasn't And I felt that I didn't feel like
she was trying to put me down. I felt like
she was really trying to embrace me and have me
meet people. And they didn't know I was a city slicker.
(27:18):
I was like, we don't use those words where I'm from.
She's like, oh, really, you know, like they were just surprised,
and I remember thinking I didn't care that happened. I
remember thinking, I love what I do, and I'm going
to do this for the rest of my life, and
I'm going to be so amazing at this because I
love what it is, the telling stories, meeting people, understanding
who they were. And then I had bounced around because
(27:39):
in that business, local news, you have to bounce from
market to market. So I went to Florida and I
thrived there West pom Beach, and then I went to Atlanta.
And Atlanta was when I was I fully realized I
was a black woman and I did not deserve this
in their minds, the same privileges other people had. Atlanta
was the first time, because I do believe I describe
Atlanta City as a blue dot in a red state,
(28:04):
meaning everyone was seemingly progressive. The mayor was black, the
governor wasn't black, but like those people who were in
there were lawyers and attorneys who were very black. And
I was like, oh, this is a very black for
upwardly mobile community. And I remember being told by my
boss at the time basically I was too big for
(28:25):
my bridges and he didn't like my attitude and he
wanted me to be humbled, and he tried to and
they fired me. They fired me for a story that
was not even worth being fired, but it was whether
or not I said mother suka on air, which is
a common thing. You know, Black folks be like my mom,
mother sucker. This My mic was hot and you could
hear it in the commercial break. You couldn't see me,
but you could hear me saying mother soaka. And they're like,
(28:46):
no one uses that word, and I'm like, it's a
black terminology who use it all the time. It's very funny.
It's my way of not cursing. But more importantly, I
wasn't even on camera, So why are you? Why are
you firing me? What did I do wrong? Really? I
was literally a commercial braink. But my boss had told
me that I'd gotten too big for my bitches in
a matter of speaking, and I was like oh. And
(29:08):
then everyone started to talk to me about what it
looked like and how I presented and how it made
people uncomfortable. And I was like, oh, I'm too comfortable.
You want me to be more deferential, You want me
to thank you, sir, thank you boss, And I was like,
I don't even know what that looks like. I don't
even have that in me, even if I knew to
do that, I don't have that in me. Because we're equal.
(29:30):
I walk in any room thinking we're the equal. You're
just as important. Everybody's all the same, right, Why are
you so special over me? Why does your skin color
make you better than me? What in the world is
this this thing that told us that if you are darker,
you have more melanin you don't deserve. I mean, and
it is a truth around the world, around the globe.
(29:54):
And I have never in my life adhere to that truth.
And I won't. Yeah, and I won't and I won't.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
No, you won't.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And I remember thinking, oh, this is bigger than me.
And I moved back from Atlanta. They ended up hiring me.
I got fired, but hired again because they really had
no cause. And I stayed there for about four or
five more months, and then I moved back to la
and my best friends like, you are militant. When did
you turn so militant? And I was like, I'm not militant.
(30:23):
I just realized I'm a black woman in America.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Jesus and that's more true now than ever.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It's more true now than ever. And I had no idea.
I was running around for the bulk of my adult
life thinking life is good. I didn't know I was
life is great. I didn't know I was separate, separated
because in the world that we live in, you have
to work hard and you'll get ahead. And I did
those things. I put my head down, I did the work.
(30:48):
I was a good person, and I got ahead. My
skin color should not have mattered, but the world will
humble you. And when I was in Atlanta, they reminded
me that your skin color does separate. You are supposed
to act a certain way. At least that's their philosophy.
And I left, and I left. I say that all
(31:09):
the time. I was like the veil was lifted. I
was a virgin. I was so naive, I was so sweet.
And I left and I came back like, all right,
I'm tired of this shit, you know what I mean.
I can't say angry, angry.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And they wonder why women are so angry. Oh God,
I was so angry because we're taught to be grateful,
to roll on your back, to take up less room,
to be less than everyone else, and we're like, you know,
I can relate as someone who sued their employer US Soccer. Yes,
And they were like, it's this, it's this vibe of oh,
(31:42):
if you don't want to do it for this much,
we'll find someone else. And finally we were like, well,
if we all fucking walk, they can't do anything.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Amen, And we deserve the respect for putting in the
hours and doing the things the ten thousand hours to
be great, like, and I deserve my money.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, And we constantly are paid less.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Constantly paid less, constantly.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
We'll be right back. You know, you've worked for CNN
and ESPN. I have heard nothing but toxic cultures about
(32:27):
these places based on that exact topic money, money, yep,
and how they treat women horribly. And the second you
start to stand up for yourself, you're out the door
and they'll find someone else.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I was the first, I think Monday through Friday host
of First Take, and at the time it was Skip
Bayless and Steven A. Smith and it was the first
venture and I was in the middle seat, and I
really didn't know what my job was supposed to be.
The way it was described was that I was just
going to be the moderator, and you don't know what
that really entails. And I've spoken and I've talked about
this since I've left ESPN. Arguably the hardest job I
(33:03):
had ever had in my entire life. Surviving Surviving that
place is something that only the special people can do.
And if you're still there, it's because you understand the
assignment and you're not taking it personally and you know
how to move through the world. I was. It was
very clear that I was told not to talk. I
(33:25):
could just tee up the topics and let's give in
Steven a way out go at it. And they let
me know I was a rook in every possible way,
like for better or for worse, and I didn't expect
special special treatment. But they were mean now and it
was clear, and I had nowhere to go. I had
nobody to talk to. I often describe it as the
(33:45):
middle seat. When you're in the middle seat of an airplane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's the most uncomfortable position to be in life, and
also on the airplane. Yeah. I'll say two things, though,
I survived them, and that made me very proud of myself.
(34:05):
It made me proud of myself because I don't think
everybody could do that. I think that I made it
easier for Molly, even the woman who's hosting now, Molly
korerm I think I made it easier for her in
terms of I went through it first. But it was
a tough ask and we were always underpaid, and it
(34:25):
was always people telling us that we didn't deserve I
see it now, I'll watch I'm like, oh, they're miserable,
like not even miserable, but I can see that. Yes
we've made headway. Yes it's great women are in sports
and they're doing great things, but it is it has
always been a man's world. Like Steven Asmith's talking about
he wants one hundred million dollars because no woman could
ever say I want a hundred million.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Dollars, absolutely shamed and canceled, like who the fuck is
she to even say those things?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
What woman could demand? I don't even I remember Candice
Parker saying when she was still playing and there was
free agency for the NBA, and she was like, listen,
I'm gonna say this, and I'm jumping offline. I hope
the day comes when my daughter can turn down thirty
four million dollars a year, I hope the day comes.
It was something like, I forget the amount of money,
but she was just like, we don't have that luxury.
(35:13):
And to me, that's where the respect comes in, because
if you don't pay me like you pay them, you
can't respect me, right, you can't really truly respect me
if you don't pay me like you pay my mail counterpart.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, also, how do you show up and be your
full self when you know they're shrinking and minimizing you
the whole time and telling you yes and invertently you
should just be happy to be You should just got
you got our middle seat at the table, and you
shut your mouth and you be happy and grateful.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
That's exactly what I was told day in and day out.
If it wasn't if I wasn't physically, if I wasn't
told that verbally, I was told that in a way
that I was treated, whether it be travel or what
have you. And whenever I would ask for my own
whenever I would ask for equity, it is like she's
been a problem. Here, she is being a problem. She's
always complaining. Here, she is being a problem and it's
(36:03):
so frustrating. And I'll tell you how you deal because
either you fight the good fight and then you take
a break. And then you fight the good fight and
you take a break. But my entire life in this
career that I have chosen is fight the good fight,
but then take a mental break, because it will break
you down. It will make you want to leave, it
will make you not want to be bothered. I think
that that's and I want to say, that's just what
(36:25):
it is, and it has to stay that way. But
you fight the good fight and then you take your breaks.
That's the only way you can literally leave this place
with some bit of sanity. Otherwise you're going to go crazy.
You're going to go crazy because people are going to
look at you like, why are you complaining? Why are
you asking for more? And I remember saying a couple
of things. Those two men or the hardest working men
(36:48):
I've ever met. They weren't mailing it in. They would
work all day out at steven A and Skip would
work all day every day. They were hard workers, which
in turn made me want to work hard. But the
level of an equity was so blatant and so humiliating,
so humiliating. There were times I'd be on air and
Skip would be like, shut up, we're not listening to her.
(37:12):
She's not like she's like fanning me off. And I
remember this looking at Steven A and seven A would
be like like kind of rolling his eyes because he
knows that Skip is is difficult. But it was his show, right,
it was Skip show, so we couldn't push the envelope.
(37:32):
And and and if you ask him about it, Skip
will say, well, we gave her a platform. Oh, we're lucky.
We get she's lucky. We gave her a platform. You're welcome, Carrie,
and I look espn thank you. I appreciate the platform.
Thank you for giving me a platform.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
No, but that's not Carrie, but exactly exactly, So don't
get it twisted.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Hey, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, thanks for that.
But I earned it. And I didn't just pop up
and people didn't just pay attention to me just because
I was sitting with you. I worked hard and you
know it, like, do not act like you just said
here you go and I just sat there. I was
worthy of all of that before I got there, and
when I arrived and it was so difficult because you
only had a few people who like supported you, and
(38:12):
they usually were brown women, Black and brown women who
supported you and they wanted you to really, really really
do well because they knew what it was like and
it was just a tough ask. But but Ashley, I
don't know about you. I was built for that. I
don't think we should have to do it, but I
was built for it. I don't think we should have
to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
No, I don't, and I don't think that we have
to constantly feel that we have to be that person.
I don't want my three year old daughter to look
at her two year old brother and be like, no
matter how hard I work to get a middle seat,
it will never be enough. Because this is the way
society views me, Like that's garbage. Name a man who
(38:56):
has won two World Cups, No, all the championships. It's
hard press and it's just not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
They're getting investments to build whatever companies they want because
people were fans, Yeah, and they just wanted to sit around.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And to me, like, I think Steven's great, and he's right.
He's had for twelve years, he's had the best ratings
and number one, he deserves. He deserves it.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I have said that to him.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
What but what about us? Why do we not.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Correct, deserve, correct.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
What we're entitled to and the work we've put in
just because because.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
We just I let me tell you something. I I
even I sent Steve and attack, I said, get your money.
I'm happy for you. I really truly want to see
you get your money. That has nothing to do with me.
You deserve, get it all, run with it. You are,
you deserve it, You've owned it. But why is it
that we as women are constantly told what we don't
(39:48):
deserve every single day, in every possible way, every single day,
in every possible way. I don't I don't understand why
that is. I do understand now that this country is
more s exist. I believe that it is racist. I
do believe that now. I may change my mind a
month from now, But I know, I know that it
(40:10):
is you. To hear you complain we and not even complain,
to hear you demand what you deserve is very, very
familiar to me and every woman I know, no matter
who what you look like, blonde and beautiful, black and tall, Latin,
in this it is across the board. We feel unheard
and unseen in these spaces, especially in sports, and I
(40:33):
wish I knew when it could change. I just in
light of recent festivities and activities, I don't know if
that will ever change. But here's the problem. When women
do get in these positions of power, the few women
that I've seen in these positions of power, they don't
lift up. They they literally keep that they garnt the gate.
(40:55):
They don't want it. I'm talking about executives. Like the
people who made my life the most miserable were women executives.
And I'm all like, well, why are you doing this?
You had to go through the same thing I went through.
Why are you making this so difficult for me? You
had to fight, push and finally arrive. And then when
you arrive, you decide your gatekeeping who can come in.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Because we're brainwashed to think there's not enough chairs at
the fucking table. You're right, So instead of standing on
the backs of the women who have paved the way,
we stand on their fucking necks.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
On their necks, and that is the problem.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yes, it undermines every bit of our worth and who
we are. And then the second we say anything about it.
We're pegged to be these ungrateful, complicated humans when we're like,
we got bills to who you thinks?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay, get I don't know. There's no one
coming out of the corner just to pay all bills
for me. No thing, My bills are different. Yeah, I'm
paying the same. Were you interesting that you say that?
Because I had an agent who's like, you know, all
you have to do is just be nice, just be sweet.
You can get the job. That other stuff doesn't matter.
Just be sweet, just be nice. I was like, I
(42:06):
am sweet. I am nice because I'm asking for them
to fly me the same classifying my colleagues, what about
me is not sweet or nice? Like? How do I
ask that question? Just to ask for what I want?
I just it's so it's so minimizing. And then and then,
I don't know if you've seen this, I think people
will sit around and say, well, why are they complaining.
I'm like, we're not complaining. We're just talking about what
(42:28):
it is. But we made it so much better for
everybody coming behind us. I think about the WNBA. Do
you know, like what these women are about to experience?
How but they stand on the shoulders of so many
who experienced so less and got so much less. Of
course there's going to be a bit of resentment, not
towards them, but like.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
The system, the system, system.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
It's the system, and we have to change it. And
I don't know how we do that. That's why it
get so incredibly frustrated. Yeah, it's so incredibly.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
But you know what. The thing that we can stay
grounded and is we are not them. Yeah, we are
not like them. We lend a hand, We understand the
importance of making room at a table so we all
can be seen, and we value our walks, you know,
(43:16):
how we've moved in this world.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I had to learn that really I wasn't like I
was brainwashed. When you use that word, I was thinking, Oh,
she's so right. I had to learn that I wasn't
friendly because I was taught that women were catty and
they weren't going to be my friend and they were
going to make my life miserable. So I had such
a guard up. And you know, and you know Jamal Hill,
(43:39):
we tell this story all the time. Jamel made it
a point to be my friend and to protect me
and to look out for me. And I was like, oh,
is this what this? Oh? Is this what this looks like?
If we all come together and we protect one another?
Is this what this looks like? Because my instinct was
to stay guarded because that's all I had known.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
How could you not?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's all I know? Because that's what they had told
me it was supposed to be. I was brainwashed. And
until now I'm all like, oh, you know, with my
foundation Brown Girls Dream, I give back and I'm all like,
this is what it's about. I feel so much better
when I am giving game and when I'm being kind
to other people. It's so much more freeing. And I
still look, well, we still come across those women who
(44:22):
don't want to help us, We still come across those
people who feel a way about us because they that's
on them and that's there and that's their shit. But
I my hope, and I don't have much hope right now.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
How do you write this with you?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
It's hard, Like, I mean, you caught me on a
time where I wish I could. I'm usually positivity plus,
and I don't have much hope right now, especially in
this country. But my hope is that when it's time
to fight again for the for the moral arc, of
society that I am suited and booted and ready to
(44:57):
do so. But right now I'm feeling real low. And
so I know, I know that we can make a
difference and change the way women are seen and treated,
but it's hard to feel that right now in this moment.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
What gives me strength is especially being a queer woman
and what could be four years of absolute torture and
hell for our community. I do find hope in knowing that.
You know, when you think back to the women who
have paved the way, who have been the resistance, they
(45:35):
didn't get that overnight.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, did not get.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
That doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
You're right, keep telling me that.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, and I will be the resistance. I will be
I will fight for my people. I check every box.
I have two black children, I'm a gay woman who
is from Florida.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Honey, I'm gonna tell you, I think you first of all,
I love that I love your babies regardless of their color.
But you have signed up for a world of lessons
intentionally with so much love. And that's what it's about. Like,
that's what it should be about.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
That means a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
That's what it should be about. It should be. It
should be like I want this I want this life, and.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
I chose this life.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I chose this life. And more importantly, you know what
you what you already exemplify is that you're willing to
learn more. You're not like, live in my live in
my world and be like me. There's a world out
there that will see your son and daughter very differently,
and you are open to understanding what that means and
what that looks like for them and how they have
to process it and making them fully aware. And to me,
(46:44):
we're we're more likely, we're different in so many ways.
And I'm like, that's what that's what we should be
doing instead of separating ourselves. You know what I mean, it's.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Having these conversations with people that don't look like us,
who maybe don't have the same opinions as us. Imagine
the compromise and compromise and understanding we would have if
we just took time to learn our neighbors.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, and without judgment.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
There's no judgment.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Okay, Yeah, that's what you got.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's what my children have taught me. A see no color,
they see no gender, no sex, no nothing. They are
so pure, which is a huge responsibility of how we
choose and decide to raise them. My daughter tells me
all the time, Mama, why are you green?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Are you green?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Because my tattoos? She thinks I'm green. She thinks I'm green.
She doesn't look at me. She's not like you're white,
I'm brown. She has no idea and she always comes
home and she was like, yeah, I have a friend
who has two daddies, you know, like how I have
two mommies and it's just my child at three. There's
(47:56):
no hate, there's no this way or that way. Like
I know the task ahead of me in a world
that feels so dark right now. I have to teach
these children the light to be the change makers. You
and I were at very young ages. And it's like
for me, that is the greatest gift, the hardest thing
(48:19):
I'll probably ever have to do, especially in this world.
It's interesting to see when you have a children child
because I want I have children running around. They just
want joy that they just want love, and it is
my job to show them that life is so beautiful
(48:40):
and it comes in different shapes and colors, and we
don't judge people for that, and we bring joy and
kindness into the world, and they are going to be
privileged kids. There's no I don't have sure have to bullshit.
They will be they come from privilege, from extreme, extreme hardship.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
The adoption process for me, once I sat in it,
it was so icky. It was it was just like
designer babies, this and that, And I'm like, I want
the hardest situations.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Don't bring me.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I don't the child. I'm not choosing the child. The
child will choose mere correct. So I'm learning so much
of how I want to raise my children and empower them,
knowing their birth parents love them so much that they
rather give them a better life, and now they have
a choice what they want to do with that.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Beautiful, beautiful and like it wouldn't it be great if
everyone did that every wouldn't it be great?
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Hard?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, I know, but we've been in this this cycle.
But I love the fact that you see that. And
if you're raising them like that, imagine what kind of
adults they'll be. And yes, life will give them their
different challenges, but imagine at their core what type of
adults they will be. I think I think one of
the things that I have a hard time with when
(50:03):
I and and this sounds like yes, and but I
have throughout my entire career when we talk about women
and how I've had to battle with women and that
weren't good humans and they're all they come, they come
in all different shape sizes than colors, but primarily it's
been white women. I've had such an uncomfortable work relationship
with white women that it made me so distrustful of them.
(50:28):
But the beauty, I think is that I was I'm
still able to see people as who they are, no
matter what their color is. So when I talked when
I like I love you, you're the best, I don't
even say white women. I don't because I see a
good person and I know your heart, and so I
have been I'm exercising my way out of judging a
(50:51):
white woman in the workspace. Thank you for just or Sofia,
just Sofia's look. I've been a fan of your girl
friends before I even knew you. You were before you
all even got together. But I loved how she showed
up and she wanted to do the work, and she
just has that heart. And I was like, I love this,
I love this, I receive this, and where can we
find more of this? How do we put all of
(51:13):
that in the world right now? And I think of
you raising these beautiful babies who see no color, who
will be great humans, and that gives me hope, Like
that gives me hope in this shitty ass world.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
But you just nailed it. You have to be open
to receive. Yeah, Like that's it, That's it I have.
And trust me, it took a long time to get here.
I was open enough to receive the love I deserved. Mmmm,
and she fell right into my lap. And I am
not apologizing for that to anyone.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
I'm at a phase in my life where I'm really, truly,
really truly working on everything that I know. That limits
my abundance, limits my growth, limits my ability to connect,
and that requires me to be quiet sometimes, like you
sit in quiet spaces, which I hate the ad D kicks. Yeah,
(52:06):
it also requires me to reveal myself like you are
a you are a seer, and so to sit across
from you in this lovely show wide open, you see people.
So if they come here and they pretend like you
can't see through them, it's going to be really uncomfortable
for them, and it's gonna make me Like I was,
like moving my hands. I was like, oh, she's such
(52:27):
a seer, Like, I gotta I gotta bring my whole
heart today, I gotta tell truth for the f was like.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Fuck, I know I'm going.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Through no and I and I in good for you
because it's healing. Good for you.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Thanks carry. I'll tell you what. That is the greatest
gift you'll ever give to yourself because you receiving and
you being open and vulnerable. You never know who's gonna
knock on your door, you know what I mean? Like
the greatest thing happened to me a year ago and
(53:07):
the worst timing of my life. But I was still
willing to be open and receive it, even though in
moments I didn't think I deserved it.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Amen. Oh gosh, I love that. Amen is everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Just I really feel that this version of yourself and
who you're bringing so hard, what you put out is
exactly what you attract, honey, And you are a good, smart,
beautiful human who deserves the world and be open to it. Yeah,
and O and receive the hell out of it.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
I receive it.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Thank you so much for being on this show. You
have your own podcast. Please tell the listeners where to
find you what. It's about what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yes, I want I mean not to I just want
to tie it on a perfect bow about what you're
doing right now.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Naked Sports. It meets at the intersection of sports culture
and politics at the beginning of the season, which is
up available right now. I did them making of a
rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese, but it was about
how these two supernovas have really, for whatever reason, been
chosen to put women's sports on the map. They have
been chosen. It is their time. We don't know how
(54:17):
it happened, but it has happened, and people are paying
attention to the WNBA and women's sports in general in
a way in which I have never seen before. They're
buying WNBA teams that are valued at two hundred million
starting And it has everything to do with one Kaitlin Clark,
because of the way she's an excellent basketball player, but
the way she plays the game. But the rivalry got interesting,
or her story became more interesting when Angel Rees came in.
(54:40):
You need a foe, people say, Larry Bird, Magic Johnston,
you need a foil. You need somebody to create this
inertia because I'm paying attention. You had that when you
were playing, and there's storylines, and so now everyone's locked in.
And I just talked about what it means for these
two women. But I also don't lie from the fact
that it is is literally black versus white. It talks
(55:02):
about what America is made of. It talks about how
some people are using Caitlin Clark to co op their
own story slash narrative. And Angel was always going to
be a villain just because she was a tall black girl.
She didn't have a choice. She plays basketball and she
talks shit that's not allowed, which right, but that's not
allowed in this world. And these two ladies are changing
(55:23):
the way we consume sports because it's okay now to
talk shit, It's okay now to get in your face.
Y'all been doing it from you as an athlete, has
been doing it from day one. We should be allowed
to be athletes first, then women next. Don't judge me
for doing the same thing you applaud men for. You
love a good rivalry with men. You love when Lebron
talks trash. You love when you know Dreymond gets in
(55:44):
someone's face. Why is this all of a sudden, so
damn offensive now and then from that point on we
have been able to take culture and politics and intersect
them in every way. So the first few six episodes
were about those two and then everything now on is
just about being naked and talking about sports, whether it
be Jerry Jones and his history and what he's doing
(56:07):
with his team, America's team, and what he actually represents
as an eighty six year old white man owning a
being a billionaire, being very progressive, but having a very
interesting past or it could be. We talked about the
election and what it looked like and what it means
for black women. I did a after the election. I
(56:28):
did a love letter to black women because they, you know,
ninety two percent voted for Kamala Harris and for many
reasons people can identify with. But it felt very personal.
It felt like it was a referendum on black women.
It felt like you didn't want black women to be
a part of this society. Yet we show up all
(56:49):
the time and we care and we care and we
love and we care and we love and we care,
and it's been that way since the beginning of time, right,
and so I just wanted to send this love letter
out these women to say you were loved, you are
seeing you are valued. Take your rest, but come back
better Tomorrow. We ride again.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Tomorrow. Work does not stop.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
The work does not stop.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Well, thanks so much for being here, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
I love you so much for.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
So vulnerable and open.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Because it's not easy. Heart.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
You can take a deep breath, but just know a
lay a laya, laya lay I love you too.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
I love you too. Let me drink more.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Ah, I'll fill you up, Honny. Thanks everyone. Wide Open
with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca, Corell,
Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello.
(57:54):
Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris
Carrie Champion, my boover.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh no, you're my boo. I had a question you first,
but that's okay. We won't get into that if we
won't tell Sophia she understands.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to wide open. Thank you, so happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thank you for having me. Let me say this, I
am very proud of you because you're so open and honest,
and I am encouraged every time I see you. I'm
all like, she's just herself and no matter how uncomfortable
it is, she's just herself. So cheers, cheers, a thank you,
thanks for being here, of course.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
And yes, we asked for wine and we made everyone
go run down, and because it's necessary, because this is
this is my show, and I can do what I want.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You can do what you want, and it's needed and
necessary and who cares if you're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, it is so necessary. And it's five o'clock somewhere somewhere,
not here, but somewhere. I'm okay with all of that.
More wine, please, I tell you what this is what
I'll start. I'll start the show off. The second I
met you, I felt so safe with you. I did.
I felt so safe with you, and I felt such
a real connection, like on a like serious, serious level.
(01:18):
And I am so happy that our friendship now is
just like blooming. I want to spend time with you.
I just invited you to friends giving. You are onto.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I can't kids around, we getting hit, were dressing up,
We're doing all of that. Well, I think the feeling
is mutual. Okay, So I've always obviously known you, and
then you came up my Amazon show and I was
just like, she's just so pretty, which you get all
the time, right, you get that often. And it sounds
very vague what I'm about to say, but there is
(01:51):
something about someone who has a pleasant face to look at.
This is what society is. It's just how it is.
But it's not just that. It's your heart. And I
think what we don't see a lot of nowadays, especially
in our business, is authenticity. I'm at the space where, yes,
if you, I'm not trying to be your friend just
to be like performing for Instagram or I don't need
(02:13):
all that. I know enough famous people. I can hang
around all the famous people if I wanted to, and
post the photos and show. But you, above all of
all the women we work because we went to can
together be sure to you. To me felt the most
at home and grounded and honest. And I think, especially
(02:34):
for black women, it's hard for us to be vulnerable,
and you're very vulnerable, and it's hard for me to
do that.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I really find that seeing people is probably one of
my greatest gifts. Really, I do, because I think you
have no idea what someone's walking through, and if you
just make eye contact, if you just stay present in
a moment, it could be five seconds, five minutes, five hours. Yeah,
you have no idea the impact you can make on
(03:00):
someone's life.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I felt that from you, and that's also uncomfortable for
someone who like when I sometimes when I go into spaces,
I'm very guarded only because this business as yeah, and
the world has you know what I mean. Business in
the world stops you from feeling safe, I think.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And you know, it's interesting about that because like we've
been through some shit, yeah right, So it's such a
testament to who we are and how we lead that
we still choose to be kind because I do think
kindness is currency. And I say that to my three
year old. We have three rules. It's the rules are
(03:37):
the rules. Sharing is caring, and kindness is currency, and
I think it's a beautiful gift to be able to
lead your life that way, even when so much trauma
and so much shit has happened that could completely damage
you and make you different.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
One one of my you are so right, one of
my really good friends said to me, you still are
soft even though everything in the world has told you
that you can be tough, and you can be hard,
and you can close that you can close them off,
but you're still soft and open when the world says
to you, why should you be? So that is a gift,
that is a superpower that you have. And I and
(04:15):
and and it's also why people are drawn to you.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I appreciate that. Yeah, but let's let's get to you.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I'm going to read a few things here. Carrie is
a broadcast journalist, sports anchor, and television personality and an
incredible human. You are absolutely stunning like you are. It's like, girl,
I don't know why you're on TV modeling. Okay, So
true story.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When people give me compliments about what I look like,
I get a little uncomfortable because it feels odd to me.
I grew up with a mom who always would tell
me how smart I was, and she did not necessarily
tell me I wasn't pretty, but it was always about
you're so smart, you can do all the things you want.
You can change the world. And when people say that
to me, I'm all like, oh, think I feel it,
but I don't, you know, I get I get it.
(05:00):
I get it a lot of y'all, and so I'm like, Okay,
I guess I'm cute that you know, but I thank
you for that. It's so uncomfortable. That's okay. Are you
uncomfortable compliments? No, I I tell you what.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm in the era of receiving. Okay, So when someone
says something nice, this is I'm going to help you here.
When someone says something nice it makes you feel uncomfortable,
which were women. It happens all the time. I just say, yeah,
I'm receiving that. Thank you, okay, even when it's hard,
I receive it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I receive it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I receive it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I receive it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Thank you, honey.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So for nearly a decade, you were an anchor and
hosts on ESPN, and you've been a long advocate for
women of color and media, which I definitely want to
get to, specially raising a black daughter. You have your
podcast now. I was on your show on Amazon. It
was the Carry Champion Show, which was so much fun.
(05:57):
I feel like that was when even through the camera,
I was like, Oh, I love you. Sound like I've
known her in a different life.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Same, same, same.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
You're an absolute star.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Thank you, and I'm so happy for you to be.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I receive that. So I'm so happy for you to
be on this show.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I'm happy for you to have this show.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
So tell me. I want to know about this because
you're always the one interviewing people.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Oh and you know why I do that. I like
to talk to people because I hate to tell my story.
For a very long time, I was always embarrassed. I
have the hardest time in relationships being completely naked. I
have the hardest time and friendships that I haven't had
over for a long period of time and being naked.
And what I naked is is showing up. I grew up.
(06:42):
You know, it's and it's interesting, and I don't know
everyone's story, but like you know, you go through therapy,
and I'm a big advocate of therapy, and you start
realizing who you are and why you're built that way.
So asking questions is just one, I'm naturally curious, but
two it helps me avoid talking about me. And I'm
right now as we're doing this interview, I'm like Carrie,
(07:03):
don't ask her a question, be quiet, And I'm telling
myself that so I won't have to avoid it growing
up as a And I'm not speaking for all black women,
but I am speaking for many of us. Vulnerability is
often considered weakness because, you know, survival of the fittest.
You know, sometimes we don't have partners. Our parents didn't have.
(07:26):
My mom didn't. She raised me by herself. My dad
wasn't around. You hear this story, You hear this story.
So the way you're raised And my friend said this
the other day, your mom raised you to be the
man that you should need. Literally wow, like literally without
even without even thinking about it, Like she raised me
(07:47):
to be the man that I would need. And she
wasn't thinking, oh, that's too alpha, or you're gonna turn
men off, or you're gonna turn someone off of that.
She just wanted me to take care of myself because
life had shown her that if you do not take
care of yourself, who else will. And I think I
have spent a lot of my adult life, trying to
undo the alpha of me because not in a bad way,
(08:11):
but because being vulnerable is also powerful. Telling your truth,
showing your scars is also powerful. Taking all the what
did Brene Brown say wants? She said, once you, once
you reveal your secrets, you take all the power away,
You take all the shame away. We should bring shame back,
by the way, Yes, we should be shaming people left
and right. We don't do that anymore. People need to
(08:31):
be shamed, especially after I know what, So I just try.
It's just hard, you know. It really is a tough
thing to be my myself and I and I and
I've battled with that in terms of allowing myself to
be shown to people, and I've battled with that. But
when I feel safe, you're getting it all, whether you
want it or not, you're getting it all, whether which is.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
What you're getting, whether you want When we were in
Can together at the Women's Sports House, we had so
many good conversations and we were in such an interesting
place in our life. But before I get to that,
I have one question, and I like to start every
single show off with, oh, which is? And it's so
important you were because you were really getting into it,
(09:14):
and before you go all the way, I really want
to ask you this question. I find that in life
there's always one moment that split you wide open. Yeah,
that changes you forever. What was that moment for you? Ooh?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I had a series of several things happened to me
when I was seven years old. I was in second grade,
and I had always felt like I was different and
set apart. I just always felt that I just grew
up and I felt different from my family, from my cousins,
from everyone around me. I felt different. But when I
was seven years old, my mother took me out of
(09:54):
my local elementary school, which was in West la and
she busted me to school in the valley. You know,
you very familiar with California, so she bussed me to
a school in Northridge. And that meant my whole schedule
would change. So instead of being at school at you know,
nine am in the morning, I would have to get
up at six and take a bus at seven to
get to school just before nine o'clock. I had a
(10:14):
full work day at seven years old, and then by
the time I got home, I was home at four
or five o'clock. Literally, from the time I was seven
years old up until I got to high school and
I went to this school I was. It was it
was a bussing program that they had in LA and
I remember they had me in classes for kids who
(10:35):
weren't that smart and I was, and they had me
reading at a level that was way underneath my level.
But thank goodness, there was a teacher who said, no,
I think this. I think you're too smart for that.
And she made sure that just because I came from
the black school, that I was treated fairly and to me,
in that moment, the power of belief happened, and it
(10:57):
was it was validating for me in a lot of ways.
Although I didn't know it, but this woman believed in me.
She didn't even know me. But there was a reputation
of all these kids coming from LA and they're not
that smart, and we got to start them off here,
and she was like, oh, no, you're really smart. Let
me move you to gifted. I went from remedio to
gifted classes in like two weeks because she saw my
(11:20):
potential and how smart I was and how I was
out performing other kids. And so that belief in me
at seven years old changed everything. But all the while
when I would leave this beautiful school, I would go
back home, and we didn't necessarily live in the hood,
but it wasn't a great neighborhood. And I remember coming
home from school on the bus and opening up the
(11:42):
door and the apartment had been robbed. And I was
a last kiy kid. I had a key around my
neck and I undid the door, and I remember I
would have to call my mom. And I called my
mom and I said, hey, Mom, did you come home,
because like the TVs pushed towards the door, and I
think the glass is broken. Seven years old, I don't know.
And my mother literally was like, oh, we've been robbed.
(12:04):
You get out of the house right now. So I
hoog up the phone and left. Seven years old. Could
you imagine like a full grown adult, you couldn't. You
could even tell that story today without somebody being like, Okay,
where's child Services? And so I walked to my grandmother's
house and waited there. But there were two things that
life told me. One, always believe in yourself. But two,
(12:28):
you are in a world where you're going to have
to find for yourself no matter what My mother intended,
because she did her best, her very best. But she mean,
she was twenty and she and she hates to hear
stories of me talking about when I was seven years
old and I used to come home by myself and
walk to the bus stop by my say, she hates
(12:48):
those stories, and I understand why. But it's a part
of my truth and I had to find for myself
at seven years old. So those were the moments that
really make me. Those two moments really made me and
define who I am today.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You and I have very similar upbringings. I had two
parents same you know, both were in the house, hated
each other, lived totally different lives. You know, my mom
struggled with extreme mental health issues. We didn't have the
(13:20):
resources or the money to get those sorted. Add on addiction, drugs, alcohol.
I mean, the whole house was absolutely chaotic and wild
and yeah, just you know, I would, you know, knock
on people's doors. I had a nan across the street
and I'd be like, I'm hungry, you know, Like we
(13:41):
were raised in a different time where you know, we
were out on you know, hanging on the streets. We
had bike crews, skateboarding crews. We were playing like hide
and go seek all hours of them like it was
just different. It was a different time, honestly, but it
was a hard time hard. And what I'll say is
(14:04):
until I became a parent is the second I forgave
my parents. Yeah. Why because it's the hardest thing I've
ever done, and I have access to things that they
could only dream of.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Powerful. Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And now my relationship with my parents is it's literally
the best it's ever been. Because I resented them. It
was the reason I am who I am is out
of spite and shame and I wanted a better life
for myself and my kids. And I was so fucking competitive. Man,
(14:39):
I was so competitive and people thought I was nuts.
But the reason I was so competitive is because I
just didn't want to go home.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I didn't want to go home back to that life.
I didn't want to go home to hearing my mom
cry and the pain and struggle of There's one memory,
and I really haven't shared this. I remember we were
on food stamps at one point and I was in
the publics like you know, check out line, and at
(15:09):
the time, there was something she wasn't allowed to get
that was considered like hot food, okay, and I just
I could feel my mom so embarrassed and shrink, and
I just was like, I'm gonna do this because I
want more for myself, but I want more for them.
(15:31):
And when people, you know, criticize me so much, which
we'll get to in our work environment of being, you know,
I just didn't take bullshit. I was there to serve
a job. I was always. I chose every single day
to be the best, to be excellent, to be great
because I had something. I didn't have plan B. I
(15:52):
didn't have mommy and Daddy helping me. I had no
fucking choice, and it was survival for me.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Literally, when people are like, WHOA, she's too competitive. Oh
she's mean to me, Oh she No, I'm holding you
to a standard of which you'll never fucking understand because
I'm not going back. So if it's me and you, yeah,
I'm gonna fucking eat you. It's yeah, it's not simple.
If it's me, it's me, it's every time. I'm choosing
me every time.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
What you just said helped me in a lot of
ways because I am uber competitive in a very different way,
but I am intense. I hear that all the time,
Like when I'm at work, my friend's like you're so
intense or people I work with it like she's a lot.
But that is because I'm surviving. I have to survive.
I don't. I want to survive and I don't want
(16:43):
to go back. I think that drives you more than
it can drive anyone. And I think when it's in
a woman, it feels uncomfortable because you're not used to it.
But it's survival. I remember thinking I grew up middle class.
I remember thinking, oh, we're fine. Yeah. I was like
I don't, this is great. I was happy. I didn't
know anymore. I had what I wanted to have, but
I but life was introduced to me extremely early. Like
(17:07):
I knew there was no Santa Claus by the time
I was five. I knew that my mother would try
to get me those Christmas presents if you could, but
maybe not. I knew that there were things that we
could have and things that we just couldn't have, Like
I wasn't allowed to have it. That's just because. But
I also remember, because I was going to that school,
being bussed at school, those kids, because kids are cruel
(17:29):
as hell, would always remind me where I came from,
and they would be like, don't you live in downtown LA.
Isn't it poor down there? And I remember being like, no,
it's not, because I really didn't think I lived that way.
But there was this you have to prove yourself and
that's what I felt. And all of that just permeates
(17:51):
your entire existence until you get comfortable enough to know
that you don't have to do it. But you just
look back and you're like, oh, these are the things
that made me like, These are the things that made
me really truly made me want to either fit in
or made me feel like I had to prove and
it was hard. Like I kid you not, Ashlynn. My
mother hates to hear these stories, but I told her
(18:13):
that is who I am. But when you just said
what you said about having kids made you forgive your parents,
I was like that I need to adopt some kids
because I need to forgive her. Yeah, I need to
forgive her because she did the best she could.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
She yes, and she did, and what they had access to,
Oh my god, my parents worked so hard, so hard,
And I'm like, when did you find time to sleep?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Never? Never?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
And I just remember, and even to this day, I
do not keep can goods in my home because I
lived off of it. Oh, we live. There would be
tent sales. I will never forget this. At the BX
Commissary because my grandparents were military, they would have sales
when it was like close to X, you know, expiring
(19:05):
or it already expired, and we would stock up on
like just can good sloppy Joe's can cream cream, corn
can green beans. Like I won't I won't touch it.
I just won't touch it because it makes me think
about how hard that was. So hard, and it is
a bit of stubbornness, a little bit sure because you
(19:28):
know there's no there's there's not an issue with eating
canned goods, but it has this I just have this
weird memory that I'm like, not here, not now. Too hard.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, I don't want it. So interesting about what you
won't do anymore from your childhood.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
We'll be right back. I really want to know carry
how this shape you like, you know, our experiences, why
(20:08):
we chose the life we did, Like, what was the
moment you were like I got to get out of this.
I don't want I need to break this cycle. I'm
smart I'm beautiful, I have all these things. I knew
it at seven. Yeah, now what, like, where did Carrie go?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I remember being a little kid and the newscaster came
to our came to our local neighborhood, and we were
cleaning up with brooms, and I remember they aired the
what they called a closer or just like a happy
story at the very end of the end of the newscast,
and it was me and my neighborhood friends just cleaning
up the neighborhood. And before that, the only images I
had seen of black people were like, they were gangsters,
(20:47):
they were doing wrong. There were a lot of negative
stereotypes out there about black folks. And when I saw that,
I was like, well, how powerful. What if I could
do a bunch of stories that were all good about
what's happening in good neighborhoods because I don't feel like
my family is every that I see on TV. They're
not always going to jail, They're not always And I
was really driven by that pureness of wanting to tell
(21:09):
the story of a culture that I was a part of.
And it was like, if I look back, you know,
teenage pregnancy was a real thing. My cousin was all
my family members were pregnant when they were like fourteen
and fifteen. In and out of jail. It was really
true stories in and out of jail, all those stories,
all of those stories. But I still felt different and
(21:30):
set apart, and I felt like my job was to
I was always I Always when I saw Oprah on TV,
I was like, I want to do what she's doing.
Something about this woman feels familiar, in captivating and honest,
and I was drawn to her and I was connected
to her, and I would just stand in front of
TV and just just look at her and be like, Okay,
she reminds me of my you know what I mean,
my auntie. I want to be like Oprah, like we
all do. And that was my goal. I always wanted
(21:53):
to speak for those who can speak for themselves. I
always wanted to just do the right thing. And I
think I think the part of me that that grew
up wanting to fit in, the part of me that
grew up wanting to prove, the part of me that
was like I can do more, was really just speaking
for myself, like me saying I want to speak for
(22:14):
someone who can speak for themselves. I was just trying
to say, see, look, I deserve, I deserve and I
wasn't saying that in those words, but I think all
of my experiences made me want to just show people
that I deserve a chance. Let this little black girl in.
She deserves a chance. Give her the opportunity and she'll
run with it, and and and for better or for worse.
(22:39):
It's helped me. But I am still very like I'm
no matter how tough I am, I'm hypersensitive. You know,
we're though, like you know what I mean, And it
doesn't show up, Yeah, it's not. It may not always
come off like, oh I should be shedding tears. It
comes off like, well, I'm with the shits. Like I'm
with the shits, you know what I mean, And that
is the only way I can protect myself. But I'm
(22:59):
super say, like, if I think I'm with people and
I like them and I learned that they're not as
nice or they might be talking crap about me, that
hurts my feelings because I was open and I was
vulnerable to you and I wanted to let you in.
And so I finally get to the point of my
life where I'm still pushing through, like I and I'm
sure you've pushed through. But then I get to the
point of my life where like I'm like, fuck it,
(23:20):
I am who I am? Yeah, I don't know, I can't.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And you don't have to apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, And it's a great thing. If you get it,
you get it, and if you know, you know. But
if you don't know, I feel sorry for you because
you're missing out. Well.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I just I love when you talk about Oprah because
this is what we're missing is representation. Yeah, I'll say
it over visibility representation for sure. You know. I love
that you were able to see that on TV as
a seven year old, because I did. I read this
(23:51):
story about that AHA moment for you when you're sitting
there and your you know, grandma probably is like, get
your ass back too close to the TV. I don't
know if that was your mom, are you granny both?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Why are you close sitting on top of the TV.
They're like, you don have bad eyes?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Too late, it's late, but it's you know, seeing is
really believing, right. I think for women, we're always told
to not take up too much space, don't be too confrontational,
don't don't say too much on this topic, and it's
like the second we do, we're labeled as complicated, confrontational,
(24:27):
all of these things, a bitch or this and that.
I can imagine has a beautiful, smart black woman going
into TV, going into journalism is.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
How dare you?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I can't imagine what you face, But you're still here.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's hard, and it's still hard. It's still hard. Here's
the thing I think, like I think when I went
to ESPN. Well, first of all, I started off in
local news and I worked my way up and I
got fire for cursing on air. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Tell me everything. West Virginia's my girl goes. Grew up
in Pasadena.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I grew up in Pasadena. I drive my Nissan Ultima
to West Virginia to get my very first TV job.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And you went to UCLA. I want to talk about that,
right and yeah, now shipped to West virgin Ucla.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I'm in Westwood is the center of everything. And then
I've only lived and as you will know, California is
arguably one of the most liberal states. Everybody's doing whatever.
You mind your business, no one cares, No one cares.
You just mind your business. And I and I get
a job in Bluefield Oakley, West, Virginia market one something
at the time, probably two hundred now, and I and
(25:36):
I was a one man band. They gave me a car,
they gave me a camera, and they said in a
tripod very much like what you see here, and they
were like, good luck, go out there and do it.
So I was like, Okay, I'll go and do it.
And at the time you speak of representation, there were
only really two women who were really well known, and
any woman who was doing kind of what I was
doing kind of looked like Katie Kirk, you know, short hair.
(25:57):
Oprah was aspirational because she was sitting and she had
already did. Katie felt very newsy to me. And I
wanted a big, cheap suit in a short haircut. And
I was, ohka, God bless me, I mean, oily skin
make up here breaking up.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
We need a picture.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm I literally have to go way. I got to
go call and ask for a photo because it was
this disaster. But it was my very first job, and
I loved it, and I loved it and I loved
it and I loved it. I didn't care how the
mayor walked up to me and said, Hey, do you
want to meet our colored lady. This was not nineteen nineteen,
this is two thousand and one. And I was like,
(26:35):
you're wet now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
She was like, our.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Colored lady, you guys will have a good time. And
I was like, oh, she thinks that's okay and I didn't.
And then I remember I had befriended a few people there,
and I was like, gosh, the mayor called me colored.
She was like, you've never been called colored. I was like, oh,
I don't know. I literally drove from two thousand and
one to nineteen seventy six cause I don't know where
I drove to. It was like I was driving backwards.
(26:58):
But it didn't offend me because she didn't you want
to hear something crazy. She didn't want. She wasn't saying
that offensively. It was a term that she had been
using since she was since the beginning of life, and
I wasn't And I felt that I didn't feel like
she was trying to put me down. I felt like
she was really trying to embrace me and have me
meet people. And they didn't know I was a city slicker.
(27:18):
I was like, we don't use those words where I'm from.
She's like, oh, really, you know, like they were just surprised,
and I remember thinking I didn't care that happened. I
remember thinking, I love what I do, and I'm going
to do this for the rest of my life, and
I'm going to be so amazing at this because I
love what it is, the telling stories, meeting people, understanding
who they were. And then I had bounced around because
(27:39):
in that business, local news, you have to bounce from
market to market. So I went to Florida and I
thrived there West pom Beach, and then I went to Atlanta.
And Atlanta was when I was I fully realized I
was a black woman and I did not deserve this
in their minds, the same privileges other people had. Atlanta
was the first time, because I do believe I describe
Atlanta City as a blue dot in a red state,
(28:04):
meaning everyone was seemingly progressive. The mayor was black, the
governor wasn't black, but like those people who were in
there were lawyers and attorneys who were very black. And
I was like, oh, this is a very black for
upwardly mobile community. And I remember being told by my
boss at the time basically I was too big for
(28:25):
my bridges and he didn't like my attitude and he
wanted me to be humbled, and he tried to and
they fired me. They fired me for a story that
was not even worth being fired, but it was whether
or not I said mother suka on air, which is
a common thing. You know, Black folks be like my mom,
mother sucker. This My mic was hot and you could
hear it in the commercial break. You couldn't see me,
but you could hear me saying mother soaka. And they're like,
(28:46):
no one uses that word, and I'm like, it's a
black terminology who use it all the time. It's very funny.
It's my way of not cursing. But more importantly, I
wasn't even on camera, So why are you? Why are
you firing me? What did I do wrong? Really? I
was literally a commercial braink. But my boss had told
me that I'd gotten too big for my bitches in
a matter of speaking, and I was like oh. And
(29:08):
then everyone started to talk to me about what it
looked like and how I presented and how it made
people uncomfortable. And I was like, oh, I'm too comfortable.
You want me to be more deferential, You want me
to thank you, sir, thank you boss, And I was like,
I don't even know what that looks like. I don't
even have that in me, even if I knew to
do that, I don't have that in me. Because we're equal.
(29:30):
I walk in any room thinking we're the equal. You're
just as important. Everybody's all the same, right, Why are
you so special over me? Why does your skin color
make you better than me? What in the world is
this this thing that told us that if you are darker,
you have more melanin you don't deserve. I mean, and
it is a truth around the world, around the globe.
(29:54):
And I have never in my life adhere to that truth.
And I won't. Yeah, and I won't and I won't.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
No, you won't.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And I remember thinking, oh, this is bigger than me.
And I moved back from Atlanta. They ended up hiring me.
I got fired, but hired again because they really had
no cause. And I stayed there for about four or
five more months, and then I moved back to la
and my best friends like, you are militant. When did
you turn so militant? And I was like, I'm not militant.
(30:23):
I just realized I'm a black woman in America.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Jesus and that's more true now than ever.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It's more true now than ever. And I had no idea.
I was running around for the bulk of my adult
life thinking life is good. I didn't know I was
life is great. I didn't know I was separate, separated
because in the world that we live in, you have
to work hard and you'll get ahead. And I did
those things. I put my head down, I did the work.
(30:48):
I was a good person, and I got ahead. My
skin color should not have mattered, but the world will
humble you. And when I was in Atlanta, they reminded
me that your skin color does separate. You are supposed
to act a certain way. At least that's their philosophy.
And I left, and I left. I say that all
(31:09):
the time. I was like the veil was lifted. I
was a virgin. I was so naive, I was so sweet.
And I left and I came back like, all right,
I'm tired of this shit, you know what I mean.
I can't say angry, angry.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And they wonder why women are so angry. Oh God,
I was so angry because we're taught to be grateful,
to roll on your back, to take up less room,
to be less than everyone else, and we're like, you know,
I can relate as someone who sued their employer US Soccer. Yes,
And they were like, it's this, it's this vibe of oh,
(31:42):
if you don't want to do it for this much,
we'll find someone else. And finally we were like, well,
if we all fucking walk, they can't do anything.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Amen, And we deserve the respect for putting in the
hours and doing the things the ten thousand hours to
be great, like, and I deserve my money.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, And we constantly are paid less.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Constantly paid less, constantly.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
We'll be right back. You know, you've worked for CNN
and ESPN. I have heard nothing but toxic cultures about
(32:27):
these places based on that exact topic money, money, yep,
and how they treat women horribly. And the second you
start to stand up for yourself, you're out the door
and they'll find someone else.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I was the first, I think Monday through Friday host
of First Take, and at the time it was Skip
Bayless and Steven A. Smith and it was the first
venture and I was in the middle seat, and I
really didn't know what my job was supposed to be.
The way it was described was that I was just
going to be the moderator, and you don't know what
that really entails. And I've spoken and I've talked about
this since I've left ESPN. Arguably the hardest job I
(33:03):
had ever had in my entire life. Surviving Surviving that
place is something that only the special people can do.
And if you're still there, it's because you understand the
assignment and you're not taking it personally and you know
how to move through the world. I was. It was
very clear that I was told not to talk. I
(33:25):
could just tee up the topics and let's give in
Steven a way out go at it. And they let
me know I was a rook in every possible way,
like for better or for worse, and I didn't expect
special special treatment. But they were mean now and it
was clear, and I had nowhere to go. I had
nobody to talk to. I often describe it as the
(33:45):
middle seat. When you're in the middle seat of an airplane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's the most uncomfortable position to be in life, and
also on the airplane. Yeah. I'll say two things, though,
I survived them, and that made me very proud of myself.
(34:05):
It made me proud of myself because I don't think
everybody could do that. I think that I made it
easier for Molly, even the woman who's hosting now, Molly
korerm I think I made it easier for her in
terms of I went through it first. But it was
a tough ask and we were always underpaid, and it
(34:25):
was always people telling us that we didn't deserve I
see it now, I'll watch I'm like, oh, they're miserable,
like not even miserable, but I can see that. Yes
we've made headway. Yes it's great women are in sports
and they're doing great things, but it is it has
always been a man's world. Like Steven Asmith's talking about
he wants one hundred million dollars because no woman could
ever say I want a hundred million.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Dollars, absolutely shamed and canceled, like who the fuck is
she to even say those things?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
What woman could demand? I don't even I remember Candice
Parker saying when she was still playing and there was
free agency for the NBA, and she was like, listen,
I'm gonna say this, and I'm jumping offline. I hope
the day comes when my daughter can turn down thirty
four million dollars a year, I hope the day comes.
It was something like, I forget the amount of money,
but she was just like, we don't have that luxury.
(35:13):
And to me, that's where the respect comes in, because
if you don't pay me like you pay them, you
can't respect me, right, you can't really truly respect me
if you don't pay me like you pay my mail counterpart.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, also, how do you show up and be your
full self when you know they're shrinking and minimizing you
the whole time and telling you yes and invertently you
should just be happy to be You should just got
you got our middle seat at the table, and you
shut your mouth and you be happy and grateful.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
That's exactly what I was told day in and day out.
If it wasn't if I wasn't physically, if I wasn't
told that verbally, I was told that in a way
that I was treated, whether it be travel or what
have you. And whenever I would ask for my own
whenever I would ask for equity, it is like she's
been a problem. Here, she is being a problem. She's
always complaining. Here, she is being a problem and it's
(36:03):
so frustrating. And I'll tell you how you deal because
either you fight the good fight and then you take
a break. And then you fight the good fight and
you take a break. But my entire life in this
career that I have chosen is fight the good fight,
but then take a mental break, because it will break
you down. It will make you want to leave, it
will make you not want to be bothered. I think
that that's and I want to say, that's just what
(36:25):
it is, and it has to stay that way. But
you fight the good fight and then you take your breaks.
That's the only way you can literally leave this place
with some bit of sanity. Otherwise you're going to go crazy.
You're going to go crazy because people are going to
look at you like, why are you complaining? Why are
you asking for more? And I remember saying a couple
of things. Those two men or the hardest working men
(36:48):
I've ever met. They weren't mailing it in. They would
work all day out at steven A and Skip would
work all day every day. They were hard workers, which
in turn made me want to work hard. But the
level of an equity was so blatant and so humiliating,
so humiliating. There were times I'd be on air and
Skip would be like, shut up, we're not listening to her.
(37:12):
She's not like she's like fanning me off. And I
remember this looking at Steven A and seven A would
be like like kind of rolling his eyes because he
knows that Skip is is difficult. But it was his show, right,
it was Skip show, so we couldn't push the envelope.
(37:32):
And and and if you ask him about it, Skip
will say, well, we gave her a platform. Oh, we're lucky.
We get she's lucky. We gave her a platform. You're welcome, Carrie,
and I look espn thank you. I appreciate the platform.
Thank you for giving me a platform.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
No, but that's not Carrie, but exactly exactly, So don't
get it twisted.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Hey, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, thanks for that.
But I earned it. And I didn't just pop up
and people didn't just pay attention to me just because
I was sitting with you. I worked hard and you
know it, like, do not act like you just said
here you go and I just sat there. I was
worthy of all of that before I got there, and
when I arrived and it was so difficult because you
only had a few people who like supported you, and
(38:12):
they usually were brown women, Black and brown women who
supported you and they wanted you to really, really really
do well because they knew what it was like and
it was just a tough ask. But but Ashley, I
don't know about you. I was built for that. I
don't think we should have to do it, but I
was built for it. I don't think we should have
to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
No, I don't, and I don't think that we have
to constantly feel that we have to be that person.
I don't want my three year old daughter to look
at her two year old brother and be like, no
matter how hard I work to get a middle seat,
it will never be enough. Because this is the way
society views me, Like that's garbage. Name a man who
(38:56):
has won two World Cups, No, all the championships. It's
hard press and it's just not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
They're getting investments to build whatever companies they want because
people were fans, Yeah, and they just wanted to sit around.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And to me, like, I think Steven's great, and he's right.
He's had for twelve years, he's had the best ratings
and number one, he deserves. He deserves it.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I have said that to him.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
What but what about us? Why do we not.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Correct, deserve, correct.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
What we're entitled to and the work we've put in
just because because.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
We just I let me tell you something. I I
even I sent Steve and attack, I said, get your money.
I'm happy for you. I really truly want to see
you get your money. That has nothing to do with me.
You deserve, get it all, run with it. You are,
you deserve it, You've owned it. But why is it
that we as women are constantly told what we don't
(39:48):
deserve every single day, in every possible way, every single day,
in every possible way. I don't I don't understand why
that is. I do understand now that this country is
more s exist. I believe that it is racist. I
do believe that now. I may change my mind a
month from now, But I know, I know that it
(40:10):
is you. To hear you complain we and not even complain,
to hear you demand what you deserve is very, very
familiar to me and every woman I know, no matter
who what you look like, blonde and beautiful, black and tall, Latin,
in this it is across the board. We feel unheard
and unseen in these spaces, especially in sports, and I
(40:33):
wish I knew when it could change. I just in
light of recent festivities and activities, I don't know if
that will ever change. But here's the problem. When women
do get in these positions of power, the few women
that I've seen in these positions of power, they don't
lift up. They they literally keep that they garnt the gate.
(40:55):
They don't want it. I'm talking about executives. Like the
people who made my life the most miserable were women executives.
And I'm all like, well, why are you doing this?
You had to go through the same thing I went through.
Why are you making this so difficult for me? You
had to fight, push and finally arrive. And then when
you arrive, you decide your gatekeeping who can come in.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Because we're brainwashed to think there's not enough chairs at
the fucking table. You're right, So instead of standing on
the backs of the women who have paved the way,
we stand on their fucking necks.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
On their necks, and that is the problem.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yes, it undermines every bit of our worth and who
we are. And then the second we say anything about it.
We're pegged to be these ungrateful, complicated humans when we're like,
we got bills to who you thinks?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay, get I don't know. There's no one
coming out of the corner just to pay all bills
for me. No thing, My bills are different. Yeah, I'm
paying the same. Were you interesting that you say that?
Because I had an agent who's like, you know, all
you have to do is just be nice, just be sweet.
You can get the job. That other stuff doesn't matter.
Just be sweet, just be nice. I was like, I
(42:06):
am sweet. I am nice because I'm asking for them
to fly me the same classifying my colleagues, what about
me is not sweet or nice? Like? How do I
ask that question? Just to ask for what I want?
I just it's so it's so minimizing. And then and then,
I don't know if you've seen this, I think people
will sit around and say, well, why are they complaining.
I'm like, we're not complaining. We're just talking about what
(42:28):
it is. But we made it so much better for
everybody coming behind us. I think about the WNBA. Do
you know, like what these women are about to experience?
How but they stand on the shoulders of so many
who experienced so less and got so much less. Of
course there's going to be a bit of resentment, not
towards them, but like.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
The system, the system, system.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
It's the system, and we have to change it. And
I don't know how we do that. That's why it
get so incredibly frustrated. Yeah, it's so incredibly.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
But you know what. The thing that we can stay
grounded and is we are not them. Yeah, we are
not like them. We lend a hand, We understand the
importance of making room at a table so we all
can be seen, and we value our walks, you know,
(43:16):
how we've moved in this world.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I had to learn that really I wasn't like I
was brainwashed. When you use that word, I was thinking, Oh,
she's so right. I had to learn that I wasn't
friendly because I was taught that women were catty and
they weren't going to be my friend and they were
going to make my life miserable. So I had such
a guard up. And you know, and you know Jamal Hill,
(43:39):
we tell this story all the time. Jamel made it
a point to be my friend and to protect me
and to look out for me. And I was like, oh,
is this what this? Oh? Is this what this looks like?
If we all come together and we protect one another?
Is this what this looks like? Because my instinct was
to stay guarded because that's all I had known.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
How could you not?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's all I know? Because that's what they had told
me it was supposed to be. I was brainwashed. And
until now I'm all like, oh, you know, with my
foundation Brown Girls Dream, I give back and I'm all like,
this is what it's about. I feel so much better
when I am giving game and when I'm being kind
to other people. It's so much more freeing. And I
still look, well, we still come across those women who
(44:22):
don't want to help us, We still come across those
people who feel a way about us because they that's
on them and that's there and that's their shit. But
I my hope, and I don't have much hope right now.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
How do you write this with you?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
It's hard, Like, I mean, you caught me on a
time where I wish I could. I'm usually positivity plus,
and I don't have much hope right now, especially in
this country. But my hope is that when it's time
to fight again for the for the moral arc, of
society that I am suited and booted and ready to
(44:57):
do so. But right now I'm feeling real low. And
so I know, I know that we can make a
difference and change the way women are seen and treated,
but it's hard to feel that right now in this moment.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
What gives me strength is especially being a queer woman
and what could be four years of absolute torture and
hell for our community. I do find hope in knowing that.
You know, when you think back to the women who
have paved the way, who have been the resistance, they
(45:35):
didn't get that overnight.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, did not get.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
That doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
You're right, keep telling me that.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, and I will be the resistance. I will be
I will fight for my people. I check every box.
I have two black children, I'm a gay woman who
is from Florida.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Honey, I'm gonna tell you, I think you first of all,
I love that I love your babies regardless of their color.
But you have signed up for a world of lessons
intentionally with so much love. And that's what it's about. Like,
that's what it should be about.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
That means a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
That's what it should be about. It should be. It
should be like I want this I want this life, and.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
I chose this life.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I chose this life. And more importantly, you know what
you what you already exemplify is that you're willing to
learn more. You're not like, live in my live in
my world and be like me. There's a world out
there that will see your son and daughter very differently,
and you are open to understanding what that means and
what that looks like for them and how they have
to process it and making them fully aware. And to me,
(46:44):
we're we're more likely, we're different in so many ways.
And I'm like, that's what that's what we should be
doing instead of separating ourselves. You know what I mean, it's.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Having these conversations with people that don't look like us,
who maybe don't have the same opinions as us. Imagine
the compromise and compromise and understanding we would have if
we just took time to learn our neighbors.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, and without judgment.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
There's no judgment.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Okay, Yeah, that's what you got.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's what my children have taught me. A see no color,
they see no gender, no sex, no nothing. They are
so pure, which is a huge responsibility of how we
choose and decide to raise them. My daughter tells me
all the time, Mama, why are you green?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Are you green?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Because my tattoos? She thinks I'm green. She thinks I'm green.
She doesn't look at me. She's not like you're white,
I'm brown. She has no idea and she always comes
home and she was like, yeah, I have a friend
who has two daddies, you know, like how I have
two mommies and it's just my child at three. There's
(47:56):
no hate, there's no this way or that way. Like
I know the task ahead of me in a world
that feels so dark right now. I have to teach
these children the light to be the change makers. You
and I were at very young ages. And it's like
for me, that is the greatest gift, the hardest thing
(48:19):
I'll probably ever have to do, especially in this world.
It's interesting to see when you have a children child
because I want I have children running around. They just
want joy that they just want love, and it is
my job to show them that life is so beautiful
(48:40):
and it comes in different shapes and colors, and we
don't judge people for that, and we bring joy and
kindness into the world, and they are going to be
privileged kids. There's no I don't have sure have to bullshit.
They will be they come from privilege, from extreme, extreme hardship.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
The adoption process for me, once I sat in it,
it was so icky. It was it was just like
designer babies, this and that, And I'm like, I want
the hardest situations.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Don't bring me.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I don't the child. I'm not choosing the child. The
child will choose mere correct. So I'm learning so much
of how I want to raise my children and empower them,
knowing their birth parents love them so much that they
rather give them a better life, and now they have
a choice what they want to do with that.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Beautiful, beautiful and like it wouldn't it be great if
everyone did that every wouldn't it be great?
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Hard?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, I know, but we've been in this this cycle.
But I love the fact that you see that. And
if you're raising them like that, imagine what kind of
adults they'll be. And yes, life will give them their
different challenges, but imagine at their core what type of
adults they will be. I think I think one of
the things that I have a hard time with when
(50:03):
I and and this sounds like yes, and but I
have throughout my entire career when we talk about women
and how I've had to battle with women and that
weren't good humans and they're all they come, they come
in all different shape sizes than colors, but primarily it's
been white women. I've had such an uncomfortable work relationship
with white women that it made me so distrustful of them.
(50:28):
But the beauty, I think is that I was I'm
still able to see people as who they are, no
matter what their color is. So when I talked when
I like I love you, you're the best, I don't
even say white women. I don't because I see a
good person and I know your heart, and so I
have been I'm exercising my way out of judging a
(50:51):
white woman in the workspace. Thank you for just or Sofia,
just Sofia's look. I've been a fan of your girl
friends before I even knew you. You were before you
all even got together. But I loved how she showed
up and she wanted to do the work, and she
just has that heart. And I was like, I love this,
I love this, I receive this, and where can we
find more of this? How do we put all of
(51:13):
that in the world right now? And I think of
you raising these beautiful babies who see no color, who
will be great humans, and that gives me hope, Like
that gives me hope in this shitty ass world.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
But you just nailed it. You have to be open
to receive. Yeah, Like that's it, That's it I have.
And trust me, it took a long time to get here.
I was open enough to receive the love I deserved. Mmmm,
and she fell right into my lap. And I am
not apologizing for that to anyone.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
I'm at a phase in my life where I'm really, truly,
really truly working on everything that I know. That limits
my abundance, limits my growth, limits my ability to connect,
and that requires me to be quiet sometimes, like you
sit in quiet spaces, which I hate the ad D kicks. Yeah,
(52:06):
it also requires me to reveal myself like you are
a you are a seer, and so to sit across
from you in this lovely show wide open, you see people.
So if they come here and they pretend like you
can't see through them, it's going to be really uncomfortable
for them, and it's gonna make me Like I was,
like moving my hands. I was like, oh, she's such
(52:27):
a seer, Like, I gotta I gotta bring my whole
heart today, I gotta tell truth for the f was like.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Fuck, I know I'm going.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Through no and I and I in good for you
because it's healing. Good for you.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Thanks carry. I'll tell you what. That is the greatest
gift you'll ever give to yourself because you receiving and
you being open and vulnerable. You never know who's gonna
knock on your door, you know what I mean? Like
the greatest thing happened to me a year ago and
(53:07):
the worst timing of my life. But I was still
willing to be open and receive it, even though in
moments I didn't think I deserved it.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Amen. Oh gosh, I love that. Amen is everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Just I really feel that this version of yourself and
who you're bringing so hard, what you put out is
exactly what you attract, honey, And you are a good, smart,
beautiful human who deserves the world and be open to it. Yeah,
and O and receive the hell out of it.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
I receive it.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Thank you so much for being on this show. You
have your own podcast. Please tell the listeners where to
find you what. It's about what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yes, I want I mean not to I just want
to tie it on a perfect bow about what you're
doing right now.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Naked Sports. It meets at the intersection of sports culture
and politics at the beginning of the season, which is
up available right now. I did them making of a
rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese, but it was about
how these two supernovas have really, for whatever reason, been
chosen to put women's sports on the map. They have
been chosen. It is their time. We don't know how
(54:17):
it happened, but it has happened, and people are paying
attention to the WNBA and women's sports in general in
a way in which I have never seen before. They're
buying WNBA teams that are valued at two hundred million
starting And it has everything to do with one Kaitlin Clark,
because of the way she's an excellent basketball player, but
the way she plays the game. But the rivalry got interesting,
or her story became more interesting when Angel Rees came in.
(54:40):
You need a foe, people say, Larry Bird, Magic Johnston,
you need a foil. You need somebody to create this
inertia because I'm paying attention. You had that when you
were playing, and there's storylines, and so now everyone's locked in.
And I just talked about what it means for these
two women. But I also don't lie from the fact
that it is is literally black versus white. It talks
(55:02):
about what America is made of. It talks about how
some people are using Caitlin Clark to co op their
own story slash narrative. And Angel was always going to
be a villain just because she was a tall black girl.
She didn't have a choice. She plays basketball and she
talks shit that's not allowed, which right, but that's not
allowed in this world. And these two ladies are changing
(55:23):
the way we consume sports because it's okay now to
talk shit, It's okay now to get in your face.
Y'all been doing it from you as an athlete, has
been doing it from day one. We should be allowed
to be athletes first, then women next. Don't judge me
for doing the same thing you applaud men for. You
love a good rivalry with men. You love when Lebron
talks trash. You love when you know Dreymond gets in
(55:44):
someone's face. Why is this all of a sudden, so
damn offensive now and then from that point on we
have been able to take culture and politics and intersect
them in every way. So the first few six episodes
were about those two and then everything now on is
just about being naked and talking about sports, whether it
be Jerry Jones and his history and what he's doing
(56:07):
with his team, America's team, and what he actually represents
as an eighty six year old white man owning a
being a billionaire, being very progressive, but having a very
interesting past or it could be. We talked about the
election and what it looked like and what it means
for black women. I did a after the election. I
(56:28):
did a love letter to black women because they, you know,
ninety two percent voted for Kamala Harris and for many
reasons people can identify with. But it felt very personal.
It felt like it was a referendum on black women.
It felt like you didn't want black women to be
a part of this society. Yet we show up all
(56:49):
the time and we care and we care and we
love and we care and we love and we care,
and it's been that way since the beginning of time, right,
and so I just wanted to send this love letter
out these women to say you were loved, you are
seeing you are valued. Take your rest, but come back
better Tomorrow. We ride again.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Tomorrow. Work does not stop.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
The work does not stop.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Well, thanks so much for being here, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
I love you so much for.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
So vulnerable and open.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Because it's not easy. Heart.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
You can take a deep breath, but just know a
lay a laya, laya lay I love you too.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
I love you too. Let me drink more.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Ah, I'll fill you up, Honny. Thanks everyone. Wide Open
with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca, Corell,
Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello.
(57:54):
Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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