March 24, 2025 • 51 mins
The loud, authentic, and delightful Carolyn Wiger gets vulnerable with Ashlyn this week. Coming off of her iconic run on season three of The Traitors, Carolyn shares a side of herself that audiences didn’t see on camera. She tells Ashlyn about her history with drug and alcohol addiction and why finding her true self was a huge part of getting sober. They also discuss why it was important to Carolyn to bring that unapologetic self to TV on Survivor and what it’s been like now that millions of people know and love her, quirks and all.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Love.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
All right, welcome back everybody to another episode of Wide Open.
I am your host, Ashlyn Harris, and today we have
the very beautiful and talented Carolyn.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We are welcome to the show, Babe.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, of course, if those of you out there don't
know listeners or whoever's watching, Carolyn was on Survivor and
the newest season of Traders, which you had an iconic run. Honestly,
I think everyone can safely say that you and Gabby
have been the MVPs of this show.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You've actually made it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So thanks for giving us all entertainment and to get
out of our realities in the real world, because fuck
we need it right now.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Right these shows due. And when I was watching season two,
because I don't just watch I don't watch a lot
of TV. I really don't. I never have. Uh So
I'm not into like I don't I absolutely don't watch
like The Bachelor, Big Brother. I don't watch a ton
of shows. But when I was, I do love the Traders.
And so when I got a call while season two
(01:19):
was filmed, was was uh playing live? I just was.
I was aesthetic. I was literally wearing a cloak, wearing
my poverty head bands where I because I would dress
up while I watch because that's how I am like
to make it fun. And then I never thought I
would be on though.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Oh my gosh, fully committed.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'll tell you what. Though it is a great show.
It has been so fun to see. This is why
I love unscripted stuff, to really see people's personalities, because
it really is. It's like bananas every week, every episode.
It's just like you have no idea what's gonna happen,
(01:59):
and it's always bad, shit crazy, which is fun and
it's entertaining, and like I love that part because I'm
not a reality television kind of girl either. But you know,
when I see my gay girlies out there tat it up,
I'm like here to support.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
What do you need?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm in And I just love the personality you all
are bringing to the table, even outside of the show,
to really get to know who you are and how
you show up in the world. And that's why I
love this podcast so much. Wide Open for Me is
so much about who we are outside of what we do,
and you hit and check every box. Your story has
(02:39):
been so inspiring. It has been absolutely incredible to hear
and witness what you've done and you know addiction and gosh,
I mean you're so open and honest in every interview
on your social media about the life you've walked. And
(03:03):
I want to start from the beginning because I do
think it's important before we like just put the cherry
on top and everyone sees you, you know, for the
way you are now, there was a lot that happened
before that. So I who's the Carolyn that was the
little girl you know?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Growing up?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
What was it like? What did you want to be?
Who did you want to be? Where did things take
a turn?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
See, that's the thing, because I mean I grew up
in a supportive family, Like I didn't have a lot
of people will think too like with addiction, it's like
there's all this like horrible stuff that happened like in
my childhood or No, my parents were truly great, Like
my dad was super supportive. I had like a supportive upbringing.
(03:47):
But it was like I was this feeling like Okay,
I want to just like the risk taking and I
want to like see how far I can like just
get away with something or and I think even to
an extent now, like it's like that always is like
a part of me, and I have to watch it
because it's like, okay, no, like you're gonna get in trouble.
Don't do that. You know, remember like Paris Hilton where
(04:08):
it was almost like bad attention is any attention? But yeah,
like when to her and Nicole, like when they were
just being all naughty, that's like how I felt like
where it's just like I was doing stuff and it's
crazy because I did. I watched this Jenna Jamison you
true Hollywood story. I don't know if you remember that,
and she like, oh yeah, braces off and she became
a stray and I was like, whoa that sounds why
(04:33):
was I? And I do? I grew up blaing sports.
I grew up like in support, but I had this
like oh I want to be badd meant yes, and
so once you get started on and like that's the
thing with addiction. So it was like, Okay, I'm gonna
try to rip my braces off, so let me see
if I can be a stripper, like it's like Waites.
So yeah, I tried literally tried to rip my braces off.
I was I was sixteen years old. And as soon
(04:57):
as they had the because I didn't want to like
be de ployd at a strip club, you know what
I'm saying. Yeah, And so I'm like, okay, how can
I do this? And as soon as and I had
a fake name, and then I'm like as soon as
they made me like do the social security like put
my social Security number, I'm like, okay, that's where I
got to like just roll out. I can't have my
like what am I going to fill out do tax
(05:17):
forms for? Like no? And so I rolled out. And
I had my dad, like many times in my life,
just try to intervene and try to just like save
me so to speak. I try, I and so he
always was trying to get me down the right path.
But I was I was experimenting with drugs, with alcohol.
And then I went I still I graduated. I went
to college. I transferred so many different times that I
(05:41):
ended up not even graduate like technically graduating, but I
didn't even know it until three years later, which is crazy.
But I had I would go and I would move
and I would start at another school, and there's that
saying everywhere you go there you are yeah, no shit,
And so I would try to create a whole new
(06:01):
like oh, I'm new, and everything would happen all over
again because I was still using and still drinking. So
I would try to like restart, and I ended up
transferring five different times, five different schools, and doing the
same thing over and over and over and over. I
remember I transferred to this one school and before school
(06:23):
even started, I got arrested. It was just like the same,
and I remember they had like the story and like
the student newspaper, and I was so frickin embarrassed, like
I was I was. I just felt like stupid, like
oh my gosh, like whom. I remember, I got a
job at the dairy Queen to like play off my fines,
and then I'm like I can't work, Like of course
(06:43):
I'm too good for the dairy Queen. So I like, lie,
didn't even last a few hours there. But I'm like
what am I? What am I going to be? Like?
What can I do with my life? And I remember
so many times my dad coming in and just trying
to be like there was one time he came to
my my I was lipping in like a whatever in
college and I just still have this vision of him,
(07:05):
and I think I had just overdosed or something. I
was in the hospital, and I don't remember any of this,
Like I truly, if I hadn't have seen like in
SAE with like getting arrested, I wouldn't. It's like I
just blacked it out while I was blacked out. And
I remember there would be times where I would have
like fines or and I would hide him in my
(07:25):
room and then I would think like, Okay, I'm gonna
wake up, and it's not. None of that works. None
of that works. And so I have these like vivid
memories of my dad just like begging me to stop.
There was one time I'm like what I was in
the hospital. I don't even remember getting there, and then
I remember, But I do have this like vision of
my dad like being in the like the patio door.
(07:47):
He had a bag of like just a whole big
like a loaf of bread and then like a thing
of chicken.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Just to be crazy, the things that your mind remembers.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
That's what I remember. And he's like you to get
like get out of we gotta get you out of here.
We gotta And I remember I was like getting ready
for a night out, and boy, like it's such a
false it's such a false like I had so many
beliefs back then about like what, uh, all younger people
drink and are partying and like, no, not everyone lives
(08:19):
this like life of just crazy, you know what I'm saying. Like,
and I thought that, But those were the people that
I was surrounding myself with. So when I got sober.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
So what made you get sober? Let's go there myself.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But it sounds like you when you talk about the
need and want to continue to start over in new environments,
to me, that sounds like you were running from something.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Oh yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So what were you running from?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Like what made you want that type of because some
people hate the thought of starting over. It's like a
new challenge, right some people like to be uncomfortable, some
people don't. So it sounds like you enjoy it, which
is what makes you great on all these shows as well.
But what were you running from?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Myself? Because again I would go I would go to
a school and I would get arrested, I would get
in trouble and it would it was embarrassing, Like it
was truly embarrassing. So I was known as that person
just like, oh, that's the one who had to go
to the hospital. Or that's like it was embarrassing, like
that's the one who like passed out over here on
the sidewalk or whatever, that's the one. So like there
(09:26):
was stories that followed me, and so it truly it
just was like I don't want to be this person,
and I didn't like I would feel like sober up
and no one wants to no one wants to be that.
So I would be like, Okay, I can start new
and start fresh, but never ever changing a damn thing.
So it's like, no, shit, it's going to be the
same result everywhere I go. But just the embarrassment of
(09:48):
like everything I did, so the shame all shame. So
I felt like shit, and even talking about it now,
it's like I just don't I don't care, Like this
is real life and I'm not that person anymore. And
I truly do believe in just being super open because
that's how we connect with people. That's how I'm able
(10:08):
to just relate to people and just truly connect. I
didn't have that when I was so when I wasn't sober,
so there was nothing more that I crave than just
real communication, authentic connections with people, and so I put
it all out there, which it does scare people. I
don't like it does even now, like it's like, oh
(10:30):
that's a little bit too much. So I know right
away when I'm like talking with someone or am I
gonna vibe with this person or not? I don't connect
over small talk. I am right away like what's your trauma?
What have you been?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
But that we have to be able to talk about it,
to unpack it, to share our scars, because so many
people are living silent battles and it is our job
to be brave enough in our story and sit in
it to be able to tell it and live it
through story and through sharing. Like I, I have been
(11:03):
an addict. I have done things I am not proud of.
I was a professional athlete for a very long time
and I still didn't get a lot of shit right.
And somehow I was really fucking good at making people
believe I had it all together.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yoh how exhausting though too.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And that's where I guess my next question, which I
ask everyone on the podcast, you know, what was the
moment that split you wide open?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Like, what was that.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Moment in your life that really the light switched on
that changed everything?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
My like moment, My big moment was I had moved
so many different times and it was the same result
every single time. And I got to this point. Well, first,
first of all, I had like court mandated treatments and
all of that, and my last one, so my last treatment,
(11:53):
I had this counselor who just was like, okay, pointed
out all these things in my life, and the first
time it just I was kind of like, oh shit,
this makes sense. This makes sense. Yeah. And he was like,
why don't you just give this a chance. Why don't
you just try it, see how you like it, go
back to the other way if that's what you want
(12:14):
to do, But why don't you just give this? And
I'm like, okay, what do I have to do? And
I got a calendar and he told me to write
it down, check the days off that you're sober, and
I'm thinking, like and it truly became this thing where
I was checking off the days, checking off, the day
is checking and it became a lifestyle. It became something
that I started to buy into. I would go I
(12:35):
would go to meetings and I would listen to people
who've had like a year, and I would tell myself,
hell no, I wouldn't. I'm not gonna get there because
I and I didn't even want to at the time
because I'm like a baby, and it's like if you
tell me anything like you're never ever gonna be able
to do this again or use or do blah blah blah,
it's like I'll prove you wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I still had that stupid mentality. But what what the
huge change was was like, oh my god, I started
to buy into it. But I hated myself before that,
and I felt so shitty that it was like it
was never ever like Okay, I'm overdosing or I'm getting
arrested or I'm letting these people down. That was not
(13:14):
like my bottom, and I personally don't even believe in
bottom because I feel like the bottom is death, like
people said, like that's the I could have kept going.
It was not being able to look at myself in
the mirror and then truly just giving it a chance
and being like, oh my god, like I can't go
back the other way, and I truly look forward. I
(13:35):
started to look forward to things, but I didn't know
who the hell I was. So I cut my hair off.
I like dyed it brown. I did like I didn't
know how to dress like I would only wear like black,
and I was trying to be super serious because I
didn't know if my personality. I'm like, is this like
a product of drugs? I didn't know, and so I
(13:58):
was like is this like, uh, is this or is this?
I didn't know. And again, my whole life, even before,
even before addiction, I was the hyper kid. I was
the kidding class. And I remember being separated from the
rest of my class, like you're like, way sametyh.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Same honey.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I was in the portables and the blacktop in the
back of the school.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yes, and that's it's like think when teachers wouldn't even
be we can't do that anymore, come on. But I
was told like, don't talk to anybody unless you're spoken to.
I mean, it was horrible. So from a young age
it was like there is something wrong with you. I
felt that early on. So growing up it was like, oh,
so I didn't know who I was, and I did
all the chameleon stuff and trying to talk a different
(14:39):
way or trying to and so.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Fit in, fit in, and fit in outside of our
own fucking circumstance.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
And people like us are so good at it, like sucks.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So good at it with that, because it's interesting right
when you unpack who you were as an addict and
you know, abusing alcohol or whatever the case with is
did you have a complex and finding a new identity
or were you were you the same inside the whole time?
Like because because I do, I think you transition into
(15:15):
this new person and the way you show up you
become you actually get credentials to be.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
A licensed counselor correct.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Life coach, Like you really made a lot of heavy changes.
But I'm curious about your identity because I do think
that's a big question mark of who I was before
I was sober, and what is that going to look
like now that I am so I.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Didn't I had no idea who I was and that's
the truth. And so what I did what I did
was I because I didn't know, like is this is?
I know, I've always been kind of quirky and loud
and whatever. It truly came down to just embrace seeing
it and being okay with it, because like I said,
the first year, I was like I cut my hair off.
I was trying to be really serious and I'm like,
(16:07):
what the hell am I doing this isn't me And
obviously as we grow older we change anyway. But it
was like I need to figure out who I am,
and I really did. I did so much therapy, I
was in treatment, and I just used this that opportunity
that time to just everything I didn't like about myself. Everything.
And I'm not talking like everything that society's pointed out
(16:31):
and said that it is weird or is different. No,
things that I truly like was uncomfortable with. I remember
wanting to be able to communicate more, share my feelings more.
I didn't want to hold things in. That's why I'm
so emotional now. It's like I don't care if I'm crying, right,
like I cry over everything. I don't care. I don't
want to learn how to manage my tears or my emotions.
I don't want to I let it out. I don't.
(16:53):
I don't care what anyone says about that, like emotional regulation. Please.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I think there's a lot of power and bravery, and
so I love that you choose to not filter your
emotional connection with people. I think there's so much beauty
in it, and that's I think what makes you special
and why people love you on these shows because they
can feel it. It's not it's not bullshit. People don't
(17:17):
smell bullshit right away.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And so this has been just like
a discovering who I am through really like truly hard
work and therapy and just acceptance of self and trying
new things. I didn't have any like, I didn't know.
I like, what are my interests? What are I had
no idea anymore. So I literally like just I thought
(17:42):
back to my childhood, everything that that made me happy
when I was a kid, and I just started from
there and I started volunteering at a rabbit rescue. I started,
I was playing like softball and I was in a
bowling league and doing all this bullshit.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
That it sounds lit actually like it was like at.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
The time, I was like, what the heck am I? Like,
it was very like it wasn't the norm for me,
but it felt good to just put myself outside of
my comfort zone and just figure out who I was.
And actually I realized that like before, all of my connections,
all my relationships were bullshit. It was all just surface
(18:20):
level b as conversations and what are we bonding over?
Like a bunch of bullshit? So I did. I'm like,
if I wasn't like drinking or using with these people,
what would we have in common? What? Nothing? So I'm like,
I never want to go back to that. I never
want to just go back to like plopping on the
couch and doing nothing and having no actual real connection
(18:42):
with people. So I really was like, that's what motivated
me to to just like I'm having those deep conversations.
I'm gonna actually have real relationships with people. So I
just don't do surface anymore. I really struggle, and even
in these shows, I struggle because it's like I don't
I can't do God when we would go down to
(19:02):
the breakfast room and all that and like, Hi, it's
hard for me. I don't so like the first impressions.
I'm terrible at getting to know people. Like that's why,
like let's not even talk about dating, because no, thank you,
Like I break people out.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Thanks for listening. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think of what people don't realize, and this might
not be true to you. So I'm curious because like
when you talk like I see a lot of my
experience in your storytelling, and I think a big key
component in my healing was to.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Help other people heal.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, I think that is the greatest gift and grief
is while you're healing, to be able to serve other people.
There is nothing more humbling and more just profound to think,
in a moment of such extreme survival, that you're willing
(20:12):
to be selfless enough to serve. That is so profound
to me. And it's the way I live my life
and now how I choose to show up in every season,
whether good or bad, is how do I serve the
people around me when they won't give anything back to me?
How do I still find something in me to provide
(20:35):
a better life for them, a better opportunity, a better
way for them to see themselves, and maybe eventually to
serve others for good in their own circumstance. So I
would assume you feel that because you are a servant
of other people. Now it's what you did through your
own sobriety is to help counsel others.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Do you feel that's true to you as well?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Absolutely? But in the same regard too, I've been learning
to do and this is like only recently because like
even just getting out of a bad relationship, and I
was starting because I had just quit like my full
time job, and I was gonna go do the life
coaching stuff and just go essentially be my own boss,
(21:23):
do my own stuff. And I mean it was scary
when I became a drug counselor. It was like I
told myself back then, I can't struggle anymore. I used
to tell myself, especially early on in recovery, that like,
I need to use all this time to like fix
myself and then be done and ready to help others.
I have now learned throughout like the last fifteen years
(21:46):
that it's like struggles are still gonna happen, and that
doesn't mean that I still can't show up for other people,
because I used to think that, like I can't be
like because I'm hard on myself sometimes. And it's like
even when I left, there's really and I was just
really starting over. I'm like, am I in a position
to even be able to help people right now? And
(22:07):
then I'm like, you know what, screw that's the that's
the best time to help people. I'm there's certain experiences
that I've been through that are that have forever changed
me and it's like I'm never going to be fully
healed from like a lot of the stuff that I've
been through. So it's like, no, it helps me to
help other people. And it again, I don't ever want
to like come off like I have it all together,
(22:29):
I'm perfect. I'm not. That's the first thing I say
when I meet with people. But also that's why people
will schedule sessions with me, is because they're like, you're
not perfect. You don't present to be perfect. No one
wants to be meeting with someone and sharing all their
secrets or sharing all their trauma or pain or addiction
stuff with somebody who was perfect. And so it's like.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
We get judged enough, like carrying other people's expectations and judgments.
It's just I don't have the energy in space to
do anymore. And I love that about you. So what
led you to reality television all of a sudden? Like what, Okay,
I want to go on survivor boom.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Don't even get me started, because I've never I've.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Never Like that's some real shit, Like yeah, that's not.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Easy, truly, Like just I'm not kidding you, it is.
It's so random, and now, like looking back, I'm like girl.
I wish I would have done this earlier. But at
the same time, I'm like no, because I was so
messed up back then that like please, but.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It was I had grown up watching the show, watching Survivor.
I stopped watching it, like I think a lot of
people did.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Like it was like, well, there's like a hundred seasons
at this point.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, like there's so many, and so I staid stopped
watching it. Then I got back into it. I'm like, wow,
this would like this would be cool. And I remember
like I was playing like online Survivor games with my
sister and stuff, and it just I don't even know why,
for fun whatever, like something to do, and I would
get so into it. So it was completely like out
(24:06):
of the blue. I was playing one of my like
online games, and I believe like someone at work or
something was like, gosh, you'd be like have you ever
thought about applying or just like connecting with other fans
or other people who love the show. They're like, you'd
be great. I'm like seriously, and I just out of nowhere,
I just applied and I got a call right away,
and I couldn't believe. I'm like what, like I didn't
(24:27):
think I would. I just sent in some video. It
was not good in my opinion, but then I got
rejected for like two years later, and then I finally
got one.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So you just like it's just an audition process. You're like,
you know what, I really liked the show. I think
i'd be a great like asset to it. I'm just
gonna like make the phone call, look it up and
sign myself up.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, it really was random. I had no desire to
I I made this video because I was doing like
video diaries before I left, and I'd literally say in
that I say, Okay, this is just a small piece
of my life, a small little segment, and then I'm
(25:09):
gonna go back into my real life and then this
is gonna be over. I say that because I had
zero intention, zero intention of like doing anything else. After
I thought, oh, that was one of the things that
inspired me to apply to is. I was like, there's
just not like, aren't they like, isn't there anyone else
(25:30):
like me? And it's like, yeah, you don't. And so
I was like, Okay, I'm not relating to these people,
like heck, no, do they feel No, I'm I want
to I and I started to get this dream of like,
I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna be myself
in a game where everybody is like lies about everything.
So I'm like, let me see if I can do it.
(25:50):
And I totally thought that I'm gonna go out there,
Everyone's gonna make fun of me. I'm gonna be like
the freak of the season. That's truly what I thought.
But I was like, I don't fucking care. Yeah, I'm
gonna do it anyway, and I'm going to just put
it all out there. I'm gonna cry, I'm gonna scare people,
not on purpose, but like and I'm still let it
out and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, but what why would you?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think it's interesting that you say that because you
say it so often, Like what are people gonna make
make fun of the fact that you're just real and honest?
Like that's the beauty of knowing yourself and like actually
showing up exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
There are women who.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Are still fifty sixty years old who are just so suppressed,
and so I want to make sure I gotta fit
this like mold and I got to be this perfect
little HOUSEWI mean I have to do, you know, clean
and cook and be in the kitchen, and I'm like, no,
we need to blow that.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Shut up. That's that's actually not great.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
If you want to do that, totally support it, but
like stop pretending.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Let's just be real.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
And I think the differences are what makes make us
all so beautiful. Why not just show up exactly who
the fuck you are and be totally unapologetic about it.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I think that's why people love you.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Why do you think Sea all of a sudden is
sending you six figure checks being like I know this
bitch loss, but she brought us all so much joy.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
She should win something like that's you just being you.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And that's what Oh gosh, that was a that truly
again it's like just feeling that from her and having
her car and then even just the or the zoom
and then meeting her in person and like it is
I was like I never thought that that stuff would happen.
And again it's like I might say, I guess I
(27:39):
just know how like typically people like me are edited
on like shows like this and.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Tell me about that. That's what I want to know
you just that is what? How real is it? Because
you know what we see in our house with Survivor
and Traders, Like, I don't know what's really fucking going
down there.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I don't know how just filtered.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Oh. When it came to Survivor, I was like they
showed absolutely everything, Like there was not like people would
be like, is there anything that they didn't show of
you or a scene. I'm like, I can't think of
anything they showed really yeah, Like I can't even be like, oh,
they edited. There's certain things like like where you for example,
(28:22):
when the season first started. It's just it's like I
would say, like the first two episodes, I'm just like
flailing and screaming and like whoah and being super loud
and like probably a little annoying. But they and they
easily could have just shown that the whole season is
just me screaming, sucking at every challenge and just being annoying.
(28:42):
They could and then showing people's reactions to me. They
didn't do that. Instead, they chose to show that I'm
not some one dimensional cartoon character because it's like I
do I think that like in the past they have
edited people where they don't maybe those people don't have
like maybe that they are I have no idea, but
I was afraid that I would just be some cartoon.
(29:04):
And thankfully it's like because I did share a lot
of myself, I did put a lot on the table.
So it's like, if you start the season it's like, Okay,
she's annoying, then it's like, Okay, there's more to this
person than just the screams and the So I'm glad
that they did. They were able to show like that
I'm not a one dimensional character.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, and it's I'm glad to hear that they really
do show up in the way that portrays you, because
like sometimes it could be really like manipulative because they
need certain types of characters.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh yeah, I was warned about this, like if they
want a certain narrative, I think they will be like,
so tell me about I was, but I never I'm like, no,
that don't fit because I remember specifically this is like
and then I think that they kind of fig they
kind of realized like, Okay, I can't do that with
this person because I'm like, you're not going to like
(29:57):
change my narrative. So like they when when I was
describing my addiction, they were like, okay, so you grew
up in Minnesota. Your dad was a politician, so that
must have been really, really stressful. He must have been
like really, and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
And they're like did he put certain? They were like
did he put did he put a lot of pressure
on you? Or was it did he not accept you
or did I'm like, no, I go, my dad's the
most accepting person ever. I'm like, I remember and I
told a story about like about coming home and being like, yeah, Dad,
I'm like, I'm dating a woman right now. And he
didn't say shit. He didn't say like, oh, Carolyn, you're
(30:37):
a lesbian or Carolyn. He didn't care. It was like, oh,
I love who you love or who? Like, do you
know what I'm saying? It was ever like big, So
I go, no, that's not my story. That's not my
dad doesn't give a shit like that.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, But you know what, that's important to paint a
picture here because I do think and this is the
scariest part about being a mom is we are so
quick to throw so much of our own trauma and
shame and bad decisions on our parents. And I love
that You're like, no, I'm gonna own that my parents
were great. I just made the bad fucking decision I
(31:13):
chose this. So it's just really unique typical therapy talk.
But I do want to talk about your sexuality now
that you bring it up, because I do think it's
a it's an important thing to talk about. What what
was that aha moment for you? Or you were just
like a kind of always like fucked with like girls?
Speaker 3 (31:32):
No, or was it a.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
One moment like oh my god, I see the light, honey,
I think I like it over here?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It was because like right now, I'm like so loving
being single that I don't even entertain it. Like at
this point, I'm like, am I a sexual? I'm not.
I'm not kidding you. I'm so like, okay, but no,
it was it was when I was trying to find
my self and figure out who I was and just
(32:02):
really like just through therapy and and really just reading
so many self help books and reading so much and
jurnling and I'm like, wow, this makes sense for me.
And I was like, I think I'm a band sexual.
And so it's just after that some diagnosing like I'm
like this makes sense, and I just went with it.
(32:24):
And so again when I meet people, it's like I meet,
I just it's truly, it's the person and that's it,
and that's all.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I don't you just see the person.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You don't see gender, sexuality and see anything person, which
I think that.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think that's great. I think that's really lovely.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And I know so many friends who like are the
exact same way. And I've been with everything and anyone
under the sun. I've kind of dabbled in it all,
so I get it, like, if you, if you give
me this sparkly feeling, like I think, to be with
someone for a lifetime is very hard.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
We're not beast who should be doing that in But I.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Said a thing because I've been trying to research about
this recently. That's really a thing that you're not supposed
because I'm like, I'm so's it takes.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It takes such long think about how much you've changed,
just like in the last five years, oh right, god yeah,
and then talk about like having and going through that
season of change constantly with someone someone else navigating their
own personal growth or hardship or trauma or children, like,
(33:30):
there's just so much shit in life. For you to
stay consistently connected takes so much work, period, and you
have to be like willing to do the work, and
some people are ninety five percent committed to the work
where others are five and then the pendulum swing. So
it's like it's a mind fuck, truthfully. I mean that's
(33:51):
why we have a divorce rate. Over fifty percent of
people who are married get divorced. Like, well, no shit, why,
Like our world is wildly toxic in my opinion. Oh god,
things are changing twenty four to seven. We're being fed
crazy shit all the time on the news, social media,
of course, we're all over the goddamn place, like nothing's
(34:14):
easy anymore, no, and.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
There's just so much obviously, it's like with social media,
with you get bored. And so I used to have
this really immature view on love, like I'm talking to
it a long time ago, when I was like in
my early twenties where I thought like, if it takes work,
then it's not meant to be. I truly thought that.
I thought that, like if those butterflies fade, then that's
(34:36):
not the one. I didn't know any better, and I
haven't realized that it is work, and it is, but
it's like that's exhausting too, So it is it's hard
it's like you're hard to be able to put in
that and in the place that I'm in right now,
it's like that's like truly going through like just shit
and putting up with shit or dealing with shit, being
going through just the experiences that I have. Yeah, has
(35:01):
truly helped me to just realize like what I do
not want my life, what I won't put up with anymore.
And it feels so good. I've never been one of
those people who goes from relationship to relationship to relationship.
I remember even people being like Carolyn, don't you want
a date? Don't you like it'll be fun? Just do
it for fun? Hell no? Is that that ain't fun
(35:22):
for me to go meet and interview all these No?
Hell no? And again like that's a big investment, that's
a lot of my time. But I get this, like
radar that goes off now as soon as somebody is
stressing me out, as soon as it's like me, me,
me bye. Yeah, I don't put up with it for
more than two seconds. Now. I flicked them aside, like
(35:43):
I just don't. I protect my peace and I know
that's it to do with it.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I always say this, protecting your piece and setting boundaries
is an invaluable lesson everyone needs to learn.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
It is just it is. It is so so.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Important in this day and eight to really understand the
things that feed you and your soul and the things
that take from you.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. So you left a very and
I like and I love your openness about it because
there's so many women and abusive relationships who don't have.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
The tools to leave, and you did, but you stayed
for a.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
While, And what what gave you the strength to say?
I deserve better. I don't have to sit in this.
This doesn't have to be in my future. I don't
have to carry the shame and trauma, and neither does
my son.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Truly, I don't want to say like Survivor gave me
the It helped to just like go and do that
on my own and just the I'm of reflection in
the time of of just like and even honestly, even
this is the support I got afterwards and even hearing
like once I finished the show, it was like, I
(37:12):
don't have like, I'm not tied down to this person.
I have like now the financial means to do this too.
So it's like when you when I was going through that,
it's like I never believed like the stuff. I never
believed I was a piece of shit or believed like
the bad stuff that was said about me. It's just
hard to ever accept. I think that like someone you've
like committed this much time into there's a relationship that
(37:35):
you've you've been in for so long. It's like I
didn't want to. I almost listen to denial, like I
don't want to believe that this is happening. I don't
want to, and I did. I lied to myself. I wanted,
you know, it to work. I wanted to. But it's
like I got to this point where it's like, okay,
like I need to. I got to do better for
myself than for my kid. That's it, like I have
(37:58):
to do something, and I really do. Just credit like
just my time away and being able to process and
being able to just finally realize that I can. I
can do things on my own. I can. I'm stronger
than I ever freaking thought. And it's not just and
I'm not talking like you know, strength is like challenge
(38:19):
shit on Survivor, but just the mental and just the
and just knowing my own limits of like how much
can I Like I don't need to put up with
this anymore. I don't need to go through this anymore.
I I deserve better. And again I always like knew
that deep down, but it's like I'm done, Like I
can't do this.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
It's a brave thing to do.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It's a hard thing to do, no matter the circumstances,
especially when children are involved.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And I've lived it. I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I'm so empathetic to families who have to go through
the storm and then hold up, you know, an umbrella
and make sure their children don't get wet through their
own shit. So it's like a a really heavy process.
And what is it like now to be with you know,
have the clarity and have the freedom and you know,
(39:10):
have all this success. And it sounds to me what
you're saying is I've been tested, I've learned from it.
I see clarity, and now I want to execute on
the life I've always imagined because I have the means.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, I'm gonna cry because it's I'm still very much
like in this shit and it sucks and I try
just like I am proud of myself, and I tell
people because people will say, like, you have some confidence
and believe in yourself. It's like I freaking do. But
you know what, I've been told for a long time
(39:46):
that I'm selfish and that the decisions I make are
bad or even like going. It took me so many
years to even just like go and do things for
me finally and like it be okay when you have
like when you all you know, I'm selfish and the
decisions I make are bad and I'm oh, you go
on Survivor and that's bad and blah blah blah. It takes.
(40:08):
It takes. I still do struggle with that, like the
guilt and the even if I leave and go away
for a weekend or go and any time away from
my son, I feel guilty and feel and it's like, okay,
it's been hard to like transition into like the okay, no,
this is how I make my money. Now, this is
my job, so do laugh. This is my job. This
(40:30):
is but I am so I still am really hard
on myself when it comes to like just being a mom,
because I want to be there and be I know
the perfect mom doesn't exist, but I am I've had
years of like hearing bad stuff too, and so it's
just hard to just undo that. And so even with
the success and even with like you know, you can
(40:51):
have everyone say how wonderful you are, but it's it
takes a while for like those wounds to heal truly.
So that's why I have truly just continued to do
work on myself. And I've spent so when people are like,
go and date and go, and that's not going to
cure me, that's not going to help me, that's not
going to do this. I've told so many people this
(41:14):
is the work that I need to do. That's not
any anything that another human is going to cure me
of or save me from. I need to feel it.
So I've I've spent so many days sitting in my
room journaling, crying. I feel it all. And it's like, no,
I'm protecting my own damn self now. And so now
(41:36):
with like the good things happening, and I even remember
like getting the call from the Trade for the Traders,
I was like, I was so excited because it's such
a huge show and I'm like, who me? But I
still do suffer from what do they call that? Like
in Boster syndrome or whatever. Well it's not that I
don't think I'm great or whatever, but again, I still
battle that one hundred percent. I do.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I think that's also a very normal expectation as we
go through life learning and unlearning a lot of trauma.
And this is I mean, you know this as a
recovering attic, like it never just goes away.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It takes work every single day. It takes commitment every
single day. I am very much so that I have
to choose joy every single day. It is something I
have to actually commit to because it's easier for me
to sit in silence and suffering than sit in joy.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
And it's an act I have to do it. I
have to show.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Myself what it's like to be joyful because I know
pain well, I can hold it, I can I love it.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I feel at.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Ease in the dark, you know, like I am one
of those and I can point to it and say,
I see you, I know you, I'm familiar with you,
and I'm going to choose something else. And what I've
learned so much about being a mom is so much
of what our children learn is through the lens of
(43:05):
our happiness. So I better fucking figure it out, and
I better I need to start learning what brings me
joy in my life. I have to figure out what
makes me joyful and happy because if my kids, if
so much of my joy and happiness is dependent on
(43:26):
the way they see themselves, I'm up for the challenge.
But also I deserve it. I deserve joy, I deserve happiness.
I deserve all of the beautiful blessings that I didn't
think I was worthy enough. And I think you need
that you are worthy enough for the gifts that life
(43:48):
has given you and this journey, because fuck, you've been
through a lot of hardship and pain and you've you've
really found your way. So what is next? What is
what is this new found thing? Because everyone who opens
social media sees you, everyone who watches Survivor and Trade,
(44:10):
like everyone knows y'all as a group now on a
very celebrity level. How has that impacted you in your
small town?
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:19):
How has that impacted your son?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I like it's hard, like honestly, like even and it's
been like this for a while, where like when I
go places with him, like I always feel guilty, like
when it comes to sometimes I And it's not like
I'm like celebrity status, but yes, when we go places
like I do feel bad. I'm like, I just want
to be with my son. I don't want to be
(44:44):
like talk. I was at Home Goods for like over
an hour hugging people and like and I'm just like again,
I'm only one person, and I don't get like the
regular like, hey, I really loved your move out there.
I thought you were great. No, I get like, Carolyn,
you opened up about this, and so I want to
tell you about my traumas and I want to and
(45:05):
it's like it's heavy, shit shit I hear. And So
I was just at a bar in La At it
was like a Survivor watch party. I went in the
corner and I had my friend like blocking me, and
I was just like this, like don't let anyone near
me for like five minutes. Like more recently, I'm like
(45:25):
no boundaries. I can't no no, and I say no
to a lot of things, like I say no to
a lot of events. I say no because it emotionally
mentally takes a lot out of me too. It's not
that I don't care or I don't appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
You're an EmPATH. You take on the energy of other people.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
It's too much.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
You're an EmPATH, and with that you have to protect
your peace and yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
It's so true.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
That is powerful and you gets to see that.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yes, so I wouldn't minimize that quality about you, and
I think that something special. But you definitely have to
protect your piece when you're an impath, because I feel
that in my bones when I walk into a room.
I have a partner who can light up every single
person and walk out with so much energy. I literally
(46:15):
went to an event last night in the city and
she was up at the top of the stairs and
I was already out the door and she's laughing. I'm like,
I want to go home. I've I've I can't give
any more to this room.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yes, I'm zapped, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I've run when I'm I'm not kidding, And I always
wear it like I'm tall. I'm tall anyway, but if
I go to any of this crap, I always make
sure to wear heels even taller so I can see
above everybody. So I want to be like six two.
I'm dead serious, so I can like not like control
the room, but just nowhere everyone like you just whatever,
(46:51):
be able to find people or whatever. I have run
out so many times where I just I don't say goodbye,
I don't have nothing. I hit I like point of like,
oh okay, I can't handle anymore. And I start running
and running and I hide in the corner and I'll
be like, come and get me.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I'm down the street, shut myself in a room, and
I need to just be done with the world. Yeah,
And I just that's the way we recharge, and I
think there's nothing wrong with it. But I think your
gift is your vulnerability. I think your gift, your gift
to every person who can watch you, be with you,
share space with you, is your gift of vulnerability and
(47:30):
your willingness to share your scars. And I think that's
taking back your power in your journey and not letting
shame dictate your journey and your and your story. And
I am grateful for that. I appreciate your honesty to
show up and be unapologetic and exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
And I'm I'm rooting for you. I don't know what's next.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I don't know what you want to do next, but
it seems like you're in a good place, and it's
so nice to meet you. But if you could leave
anything for our listeners and viewers, what would it be?
Speaker 1 (48:02):
What just came to me is and what I work
on every single day is just pay attention to the
words that you speak to yourself. I used to say
so much nasty shit to myself that it became reality.
But not only became reality, I believed it, and I
know when it comes to there's like debate about positive affirmations,
(48:22):
and like, it's not about being like filling your brain
with fluff or a bunch of bullshit. It's if I
can believe all of the negative things I've said about
myself and then make it my reality. Why can't I
believe the positive? So truly?
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Do?
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I have like bad thoughts that might creep up, of course,
but it's no longer the norm, and it's no longer
like if I get a thought like, oh, Carolyn Blige,
you you look bad or blah whatever, you're a piece
of shit. If I even get that for a second,
I'm like, oh, that's now uncomfortable. But before when I
was filling my like okay, Carolyn, you deserve this, you
(48:59):
it is it's like I fucking do. I do believe that,
like I believe it now. But I pay attention to
what I say to myself every single day because that
is going to either make like you said, you make
that decision to like okay, joy, and I have to
turn that on. I have to like, how am I
going to show up? But how am I talking to myself?
(49:19):
That is absolutely going to dictate my day. So I
am so aware of what I say to myself every moment.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I love that, And I think that's a good lesson
for a lot of our younger generation right now who
grow up on social media, which means people have access
to a lot of very very toxic judgments and comments
that are hurting our younger generation. Our suicide rates, our
depression rates, like everything is skyrocketing, especially in the queer community.
(49:50):
So oh, I think that's an important practice we need
to focus more on, is how we talk to ourselves,
because we'll show up differently, we'll show up into rooms
a lot lot different and we need a little more
positive forward thinking these days than the negative shit we're
seeing on the news and the toxic masculinity that is
(50:12):
being spewed all over the fucking place. So I love
what you said, and I think it's important, and I
know it's impactful, and I know you're changing the lives
of a lot of people just by showing up and
telling your story. So thank you for being on Wide Open.
You are a sweetheart. Keep being exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
You are a light, you are a joy, and I
see nothing but great things for you. Carolyn. Thank you,
Thank you truly, You're so sweet.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Don't be sorry for being emotional. I'm grateful for your vulnerability.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I'll be crying for a little bit after.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
This, and hope and I hope that we get some
you know, some hang time coming up. I don't know
if we are paths will cross, but I.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Hope they do. Thank you. Thanks all right, me?
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Yeah, of course, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronoff, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
(51:29):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder,
and I'm your host Ashlyn Harris.
Love.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
All right, welcome back everybody to another episode of Wide Open.
I am your host, Ashlyn Harris, and today we have
the very beautiful and talented Carolyn.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We are welcome to the show, Babe.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, of course, if those of you out there don't
know listeners or whoever's watching, Carolyn was on Survivor and
the newest season of Traders, which you had an iconic run. Honestly,
I think everyone can safely say that you and Gabby
have been the MVPs of this show.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You've actually made it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So thanks for giving us all entertainment and to get
out of our realities in the real world, because fuck
we need it right now.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Right these shows due. And when I was watching season two,
because I don't just watch I don't watch a lot
of TV. I really don't. I never have. Uh So
I'm not into like I don't I absolutely don't watch
like The Bachelor, Big Brother. I don't watch a ton
of shows. But when I was, I do love the Traders.
And so when I got a call while season two
(01:19):
was filmed, was was uh playing live? I just was.
I was aesthetic. I was literally wearing a cloak, wearing
my poverty head bands where I because I would dress
up while I watch because that's how I am like
to make it fun. And then I never thought I
would be on though.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Oh my gosh, fully committed.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'll tell you what. Though it is a great show.
It has been so fun to see. This is why
I love unscripted stuff, to really see people's personalities, because
it really is. It's like bananas every week, every episode.
It's just like you have no idea what's gonna happen,
(01:59):
and it's always bad, shit crazy, which is fun and
it's entertaining, and like I love that part because I'm
not a reality television kind of girl either. But you know,
when I see my gay girlies out there tat it up,
I'm like here to support.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
What do you need?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm in And I just love the personality you all
are bringing to the table, even outside of the show,
to really get to know who you are and how
you show up in the world. And that's why I
love this podcast so much. Wide Open for Me is
so much about who we are outside of what we do,
and you hit and check every box. Your story has
(02:39):
been so inspiring. It has been absolutely incredible to hear
and witness what you've done and you know addiction and gosh,
I mean you're so open and honest in every interview
on your social media about the life you've walked. And
(03:03):
I want to start from the beginning because I do
think it's important before we like just put the cherry
on top and everyone sees you, you know, for the
way you are now, there was a lot that happened
before that. So I who's the Carolyn that was the
little girl you know?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Growing up?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
What was it like? What did you want to be?
Who did you want to be? Where did things take
a turn?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
See, that's the thing, because I mean I grew up
in a supportive family, Like I didn't have a lot
of people will think too like with addiction, it's like
there's all this like horrible stuff that happened like in
my childhood or No, my parents were truly great, Like
my dad was super supportive. I had like a supportive upbringing.
(03:47):
But it was like I was this feeling like Okay,
I want to just like the risk taking and I
want to like see how far I can like just
get away with something or and I think even to
an extent now, like it's like that always is like
a part of me, and I have to watch it
because it's like, okay, no, like you're gonna get in trouble.
Don't do that. You know, remember like Paris Hilton where
(04:08):
it was almost like bad attention is any attention? But yeah,
like when to her and Nicole, like when they were
just being all naughty, that's like how I felt like
where it's just like I was doing stuff and it's
crazy because I did. I watched this Jenna Jamison you
true Hollywood story. I don't know if you remember that,
and she like, oh yeah, braces off and she became
a stray and I was like, whoa that sounds why
(04:33):
was I? And I do? I grew up blaing sports.
I grew up like in support, but I had this
like oh I want to be badd meant yes, and
so once you get started on and like that's the
thing with addiction. So it was like, Okay, I'm gonna
try to rip my braces off, so let me see
if I can be a stripper, like it's like Waites.
So yeah, I tried literally tried to rip my braces off.
I was I was sixteen years old. And as soon
(04:57):
as they had the because I didn't want to like
be de ployd at a strip club, you know what
I'm saying. Yeah, And so I'm like, okay, how can
I do this? And as soon as and I had
a fake name, and then I'm like as soon as
they made me like do the social security like put
my social Security number, I'm like, okay, that's where I
got to like just roll out. I can't have my
like what am I going to fill out do tax
(05:17):
forms for? Like no? And so I rolled out. And
I had my dad, like many times in my life,
just try to intervene and try to just like save
me so to speak. I try, I and so he
always was trying to get me down the right path.
But I was I was experimenting with drugs, with alcohol.
And then I went I still I graduated. I went
to college. I transferred so many different times that I
(05:41):
ended up not even graduate like technically graduating, but I
didn't even know it until three years later, which is crazy.
But I had I would go and I would move
and I would start at another school, and there's that
saying everywhere you go there you are yeah, no shit,
And so I would try to create a whole new
(06:01):
like oh, I'm new, and everything would happen all over
again because I was still using and still drinking. So
I would try to like restart, and I ended up
transferring five different times, five different schools, and doing the
same thing over and over and over and over. I
remember I transferred to this one school and before school
(06:23):
even started, I got arrested. It was just like the same,
and I remember they had like the story and like
the student newspaper, and I was so frickin embarrassed, like
I was I was. I just felt like stupid, like
oh my gosh, like whom. I remember, I got a
job at the dairy Queen to like play off my fines,
and then I'm like I can't work, Like of course
(06:43):
I'm too good for the dairy Queen. So I like, lie,
didn't even last a few hours there. But I'm like
what am I? What am I going to be? Like?
What can I do with my life? And I remember
so many times my dad coming in and just trying
to be like there was one time he came to
my my I was lipping in like a whatever in
college and I just still have this vision of him,
(07:05):
and I think I had just overdosed or something. I
was in the hospital, and I don't remember any of this,
Like I truly, if I hadn't have seen like in
SAE with like getting arrested, I wouldn't. It's like I
just blacked it out while I was blacked out. And
I remember there would be times where I would have
like fines or and I would hide him in my
(07:25):
room and then I would think like, Okay, I'm gonna
wake up, and it's not. None of that works. None
of that works. And so I have these like vivid
memories of my dad just like begging me to stop.
There was one time I'm like what I was in
the hospital. I don't even remember getting there, and then
I remember, But I do have this like vision of
my dad like being in the like the patio door.
(07:47):
He had a bag of like just a whole big
like a loaf of bread and then like a thing
of chicken.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Just to be crazy, the things that your mind remembers.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
That's what I remember. And he's like you to get
like get out of we gotta get you out of here.
We gotta And I remember I was like getting ready
for a night out, and boy, like it's such a
false it's such a false like I had so many
beliefs back then about like what, uh, all younger people
drink and are partying and like, no, not everyone lives
(08:19):
this like life of just crazy, you know what I'm saying. Like,
and I thought that, But those were the people that
I was surrounding myself with. So when I got sober.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
So what made you get sober? Let's go there myself.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But it sounds like you when you talk about the
need and want to continue to start over in new environments,
to me, that sounds like you were running from something.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Oh yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So what were you running from?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Like what made you want that type of because some
people hate the thought of starting over. It's like a
new challenge, right some people like to be uncomfortable, some
people don't. So it sounds like you enjoy it, which
is what makes you great on all these shows as well.
But what were you running from?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Myself? Because again I would go I would go to
a school and I would get arrested, I would get
in trouble and it would it was embarrassing, Like it
was truly embarrassing. So I was known as that person
just like, oh, that's the one who had to go
to the hospital. Or that's like it was embarrassing, like
that's the one who like passed out over here on
the sidewalk or whatever, that's the one. So like there
(09:26):
was stories that followed me, and so it truly it
just was like I don't want to be this person,
and I didn't like I would feel like sober up
and no one wants to no one wants to be that.
So I would be like, Okay, I can start new
and start fresh, but never ever changing a damn thing.
So it's like, no, shit, it's going to be the
same result everywhere I go. But just the embarrassment of
(09:48):
like everything I did, so the shame all shame. So
I felt like shit, and even talking about it now,
it's like I just don't I don't care, Like this
is real life and I'm not that person anymore. And
I truly do believe in just being super open because
that's how we connect with people. That's how I'm able
(10:08):
to just relate to people and just truly connect. I
didn't have that when I was so when I wasn't sober,
so there was nothing more that I crave than just
real communication, authentic connections with people, and so I put
it all out there, which it does scare people. I
don't like it does even now, like it's like, oh
(10:30):
that's a little bit too much. So I know right
away when I'm like talking with someone or am I
gonna vibe with this person or not? I don't connect
over small talk. I am right away like what's your trauma?
What have you been?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
But that we have to be able to talk about it,
to unpack it, to share our scars, because so many
people are living silent battles and it is our job
to be brave enough in our story and sit in
it to be able to tell it and live it
through story and through sharing. Like I, I have been
(11:03):
an addict. I have done things I am not proud of.
I was a professional athlete for a very long time
and I still didn't get a lot of shit right.
And somehow I was really fucking good at making people
believe I had it all together.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yoh how exhausting though too.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And that's where I guess my next question, which I
ask everyone on the podcast, you know, what was the
moment that split you wide open?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Like, what was that.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Moment in your life that really the light switched on
that changed everything?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
My like moment, My big moment was I had moved
so many different times and it was the same result
every single time. And I got to this point. Well, first,
first of all, I had like court mandated treatments and
all of that, and my last one, so my last treatment,
(11:53):
I had this counselor who just was like, okay, pointed
out all these things in my life, and the first
time it just I was kind of like, oh shit,
this makes sense. This makes sense. Yeah. And he was like,
why don't you just give this a chance. Why don't
you just try it, see how you like it, go
back to the other way if that's what you want
(12:14):
to do, But why don't you just give this? And
I'm like, okay, what do I have to do? And
I got a calendar and he told me to write
it down, check the days off that you're sober, and
I'm thinking, like and it truly became this thing where
I was checking off the days, checking off, the day
is checking and it became a lifestyle. It became something
that I started to buy into. I would go I
(12:35):
would go to meetings and I would listen to people
who've had like a year, and I would tell myself,
hell no, I wouldn't. I'm not gonna get there because
I and I didn't even want to at the time
because I'm like a baby, and it's like if you
tell me anything like you're never ever gonna be able
to do this again or use or do blah blah blah,
it's like I'll prove you wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I still had that stupid mentality. But what what the
huge change was was like, oh my god, I started
to buy into it. But I hated myself before that,
and I felt so shitty that it was like it
was never ever like Okay, I'm overdosing or I'm getting
arrested or I'm letting these people down. That was not
(13:14):
like my bottom, and I personally don't even believe in
bottom because I feel like the bottom is death, like
people said, like that's the I could have kept going.
It was not being able to look at myself in
the mirror and then truly just giving it a chance
and being like, oh my god, like I can't go
back the other way, and I truly look forward. I
(13:35):
started to look forward to things, but I didn't know
who the hell I was. So I cut my hair off.
I like dyed it brown. I did like I didn't
know how to dress like I would only wear like black,
and I was trying to be super serious because I
didn't know if my personality. I'm like, is this like
a product of drugs? I didn't know, and so I
(13:58):
was like is this like, uh, is this or is this?
I didn't know. And again, my whole life, even before,
even before addiction, I was the hyper kid. I was
the kidding class. And I remember being separated from the
rest of my class, like you're like, way sametyh.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Same honey.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I was in the portables and the blacktop in the
back of the school.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yes, and that's it's like think when teachers wouldn't even
be we can't do that anymore, come on. But I
was told like, don't talk to anybody unless you're spoken to.
I mean, it was horrible. So from a young age
it was like there is something wrong with you. I
felt that early on. So growing up it was like, oh,
so I didn't know who I was, and I did
all the chameleon stuff and trying to talk a different
(14:39):
way or trying to and so.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Fit in, fit in, and fit in outside of our
own fucking circumstance.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
And people like us are so good at it, like sucks.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So good at it with that, because it's interesting right
when you unpack who you were as an addict and
you know, abusing alcohol or whatever the case with is
did you have a complex and finding a new identity
or were you were you the same inside the whole time?
Like because because I do, I think you transition into
(15:15):
this new person and the way you show up you
become you actually get credentials to be.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
A licensed counselor correct.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Life coach, Like you really made a lot of heavy changes.
But I'm curious about your identity because I do think
that's a big question mark of who I was before
I was sober, and what is that going to look
like now that I am so I.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Didn't I had no idea who I was and that's
the truth. And so what I did what I did
was I because I didn't know, like is this is?
I know, I've always been kind of quirky and loud
and whatever. It truly came down to just embrace seeing
it and being okay with it, because like I said,
the first year, I was like I cut my hair off.
I was trying to be really serious and I'm like,
(16:07):
what the hell am I doing this isn't me And
obviously as we grow older we change anyway. But it
was like I need to figure out who I am,
and I really did. I did so much therapy, I
was in treatment, and I just used this that opportunity
that time to just everything I didn't like about myself. Everything.
And I'm not talking like everything that society's pointed out
(16:31):
and said that it is weird or is different. No,
things that I truly like was uncomfortable with. I remember
wanting to be able to communicate more, share my feelings more.
I didn't want to hold things in. That's why I'm
so emotional now. It's like I don't care if I'm crying, right,
like I cry over everything. I don't care. I don't
want to learn how to manage my tears or my emotions.
I don't want to I let it out. I don't.
(16:53):
I don't care what anyone says about that, like emotional regulation. Please.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I think there's a lot of power and bravery, and
so I love that you choose to not filter your
emotional connection with people. I think there's so much beauty
in it, and that's I think what makes you special
and why people love you on these shows because they
can feel it. It's not it's not bullshit. People don't
(17:17):
smell bullshit right away.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And so this has been just like
a discovering who I am through really like truly hard
work and therapy and just acceptance of self and trying
new things. I didn't have any like, I didn't know.
I like, what are my interests? What are I had
no idea anymore. So I literally like just I thought
(17:42):
back to my childhood, everything that that made me happy
when I was a kid, and I just started from
there and I started volunteering at a rabbit rescue. I started,
I was playing like softball and I was in a
bowling league and doing all this bullshit.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
That it sounds lit actually like it was like at.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
The time, I was like, what the heck am I? Like,
it was very like it wasn't the norm for me,
but it felt good to just put myself outside of
my comfort zone and just figure out who I was.
And actually I realized that like before, all of my connections,
all my relationships were bullshit. It was all just surface
(18:20):
level b as conversations and what are we bonding over?
Like a bunch of bullshit? So I did. I'm like,
if I wasn't like drinking or using with these people,
what would we have in common? What? Nothing? So I'm like,
I never want to go back to that. I never
want to just go back to like plopping on the
couch and doing nothing and having no actual real connection
(18:42):
with people. So I really was like, that's what motivated
me to to just like I'm having those deep conversations.
I'm gonna actually have real relationships with people. So I
just don't do surface anymore. I really struggle, and even
in these shows, I struggle because it's like I don't
I can't do God when we would go down to
(19:02):
the breakfast room and all that and like, Hi, it's
hard for me. I don't so like the first impressions.
I'm terrible at getting to know people. Like that's why,
like let's not even talk about dating, because no, thank you,
Like I break people out.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Thanks for listening. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think of what people don't realize, and this might
not be true to you. So I'm curious because like
when you talk like I see a lot of my
experience in your storytelling, and I think a big key
component in my healing was to.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Help other people heal.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, I think that is the greatest gift and grief
is while you're healing, to be able to serve other people.
There is nothing more humbling and more just profound to think,
in a moment of such extreme survival, that you're willing
(20:12):
to be selfless enough to serve. That is so profound
to me. And it's the way I live my life
and now how I choose to show up in every season,
whether good or bad, is how do I serve the
people around me when they won't give anything back to me?
How do I still find something in me to provide
(20:35):
a better life for them, a better opportunity, a better
way for them to see themselves, and maybe eventually to
serve others for good in their own circumstance. So I
would assume you feel that because you are a servant
of other people. Now it's what you did through your
own sobriety is to help counsel others.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Do you feel that's true to you as well?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Absolutely? But in the same regard too, I've been learning
to do and this is like only recently because like
even just getting out of a bad relationship, and I
was starting because I had just quit like my full
time job, and I was gonna go do the life
coaching stuff and just go essentially be my own boss,
(21:23):
do my own stuff. And I mean it was scary
when I became a drug counselor. It was like I
told myself back then, I can't struggle anymore. I used
to tell myself, especially early on in recovery, that like,
I need to use all this time to like fix
myself and then be done and ready to help others.
I have now learned throughout like the last fifteen years
(21:46):
that it's like struggles are still gonna happen, and that
doesn't mean that I still can't show up for other people,
because I used to think that, like I can't be
like because I'm hard on myself sometimes. And it's like
even when I left, there's really and I was just
really starting over. I'm like, am I in a position
to even be able to help people right now? And
(22:07):
then I'm like, you know what, screw that's the that's
the best time to help people. I'm there's certain experiences
that I've been through that are that have forever changed
me and it's like I'm never going to be fully
healed from like a lot of the stuff that I've
been through. So it's like, no, it helps me to
help other people. And it again, I don't ever want
to like come off like I have it all together,
(22:29):
I'm perfect. I'm not. That's the first thing I say
when I meet with people. But also that's why people
will schedule sessions with me, is because they're like, you're
not perfect. You don't present to be perfect. No one
wants to be meeting with someone and sharing all their
secrets or sharing all their trauma or pain or addiction
stuff with somebody who was perfect. And so it's like.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
We get judged enough, like carrying other people's expectations and judgments.
It's just I don't have the energy in space to
do anymore. And I love that about you. So what
led you to reality television all of a sudden? Like what, Okay,
I want to go on survivor boom.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Don't even get me started, because I've never I've.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Never Like that's some real shit, Like yeah, that's not.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Easy, truly, Like just I'm not kidding you, it is.
It's so random, and now, like looking back, I'm like girl.
I wish I would have done this earlier. But at
the same time, I'm like no, because I was so
messed up back then that like please, but.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It was I had grown up watching the show, watching Survivor.
I stopped watching it, like I think a lot of
people did.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Like it was like, well, there's like a hundred seasons
at this point.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, like there's so many, and so I staid stopped
watching it. Then I got back into it. I'm like, wow,
this would like this would be cool. And I remember
like I was playing like online Survivor games with my
sister and stuff, and it just I don't even know why,
for fun whatever, like something to do, and I would
get so into it. So it was completely like out
(24:06):
of the blue. I was playing one of my like
online games, and I believe like someone at work or
something was like, gosh, you'd be like have you ever
thought about applying or just like connecting with other fans
or other people who love the show. They're like, you'd
be great. I'm like seriously, and I just out of nowhere,
I just applied and I got a call right away,
and I couldn't believe. I'm like what, like I didn't
(24:27):
think I would. I just sent in some video. It
was not good in my opinion, but then I got
rejected for like two years later, and then I finally
got one.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So you just like it's just an audition process. You're like,
you know what, I really liked the show. I think
i'd be a great like asset to it. I'm just
gonna like make the phone call, look it up and
sign myself up.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, it really was random. I had no desire to
I I made this video because I was doing like
video diaries before I left, and I'd literally say in
that I say, Okay, this is just a small piece
of my life, a small little segment, and then I'm
(25:09):
gonna go back into my real life and then this
is gonna be over. I say that because I had
zero intention, zero intention of like doing anything else. After
I thought, oh, that was one of the things that
inspired me to apply to is. I was like, there's
just not like, aren't they like, isn't there anyone else
(25:30):
like me? And it's like, yeah, you don't. And so
I was like, Okay, I'm not relating to these people,
like heck, no, do they feel No, I'm I want
to I and I started to get this dream of like,
I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna be myself
in a game where everybody is like lies about everything.
So I'm like, let me see if I can do it.
(25:50):
And I totally thought that I'm gonna go out there,
Everyone's gonna make fun of me. I'm gonna be like
the freak of the season. That's truly what I thought.
But I was like, I don't fucking care. Yeah, I'm
gonna do it anyway, and I'm going to just put
it all out there. I'm gonna cry, I'm gonna scare people,
not on purpose, but like and I'm still let it
out and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, but what why would you?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think it's interesting that you say that because you
say it so often, Like what are people gonna make
make fun of the fact that you're just real and honest?
Like that's the beauty of knowing yourself and like actually
showing up exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
There are women who.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Are still fifty sixty years old who are just so suppressed,
and so I want to make sure I gotta fit
this like mold and I got to be this perfect
little HOUSEWI mean I have to do, you know, clean
and cook and be in the kitchen, and I'm like, no,
we need to blow that.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Shut up. That's that's actually not great.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
If you want to do that, totally support it, but
like stop pretending.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Let's just be real.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
And I think the differences are what makes make us
all so beautiful. Why not just show up exactly who
the fuck you are and be totally unapologetic about it.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I think that's why people love you.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Why do you think Sea all of a sudden is
sending you six figure checks being like I know this
bitch loss, but she brought us all so much joy.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
She should win something like that's you just being you.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And that's what Oh gosh, that was a that truly
again it's like just feeling that from her and having
her car and then even just the or the zoom
and then meeting her in person and like it is
I was like I never thought that that stuff would happen.
And again it's like I might say, I guess I
(27:39):
just know how like typically people like me are edited
on like shows like this and.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Tell me about that. That's what I want to know
you just that is what? How real is it? Because
you know what we see in our house with Survivor
and Traders, Like, I don't know what's really fucking going
down there.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I don't know how just filtered.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Oh. When it came to Survivor, I was like they
showed absolutely everything, Like there was not like people would
be like, is there anything that they didn't show of
you or a scene. I'm like, I can't think of
anything they showed really yeah, Like I can't even be like, oh,
they edited. There's certain things like like where you for example,
(28:22):
when the season first started. It's just it's like I
would say, like the first two episodes, I'm just like
flailing and screaming and like whoah and being super loud
and like probably a little annoying. But they and they
easily could have just shown that the whole season is
just me screaming, sucking at every challenge and just being annoying.
(28:42):
They could and then showing people's reactions to me. They
didn't do that. Instead, they chose to show that I'm
not some one dimensional cartoon character because it's like I
do I think that like in the past they have
edited people where they don't maybe those people don't have
like maybe that they are I have no idea, but
I was afraid that I would just be some cartoon.
(29:04):
And thankfully it's like because I did share a lot
of myself, I did put a lot on the table.
So it's like, if you start the season it's like, Okay,
she's annoying, then it's like, Okay, there's more to this
person than just the screams and the So I'm glad
that they did. They were able to show like that
I'm not a one dimensional character.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, and it's I'm glad to hear that they really
do show up in the way that portrays you, because
like sometimes it could be really like manipulative because they
need certain types of characters.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh yeah, I was warned about this, like if they
want a certain narrative, I think they will be like,
so tell me about I was, but I never I'm like, no,
that don't fit because I remember specifically this is like
and then I think that they kind of fig they
kind of realized like, Okay, I can't do that with
this person because I'm like, you're not going to like
(29:57):
change my narrative. So like they when when I was
describing my addiction, they were like, okay, so you grew
up in Minnesota. Your dad was a politician, so that
must have been really, really stressful. He must have been
like really, and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
And they're like did he put certain? They were like
did he put did he put a lot of pressure
on you? Or was it did he not accept you
or did I'm like, no, I go, my dad's the
most accepting person ever. I'm like, I remember and I
told a story about like about coming home and being like, yeah, Dad,
I'm like, I'm dating a woman right now. And he
didn't say shit. He didn't say like, oh, Carolyn, you're
(30:37):
a lesbian or Carolyn. He didn't care. It was like, oh,
I love who you love or who? Like, do you
know what I'm saying? It was ever like big, So
I go, no, that's not my story. That's not my
dad doesn't give a shit like that.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, But you know what, that's important to paint a
picture here because I do think and this is the
scariest part about being a mom is we are so
quick to throw so much of our own trauma and
shame and bad decisions on our parents. And I love
that You're like, no, I'm gonna own that my parents
were great. I just made the bad fucking decision I
(31:13):
chose this. So it's just really unique typical therapy talk.
But I do want to talk about your sexuality now
that you bring it up, because I do think it's
a it's an important thing to talk about. What what
was that aha moment for you? Or you were just
like a kind of always like fucked with like girls?
Speaker 3 (31:32):
No, or was it a.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
One moment like oh my god, I see the light, honey,
I think I like it over here?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It was because like right now, I'm like so loving
being single that I don't even entertain it. Like at
this point, I'm like, am I a sexual? I'm not.
I'm not kidding you. I'm so like, okay, but no,
it was it was when I was trying to find
my self and figure out who I was and just
(32:02):
really like just through therapy and and really just reading
so many self help books and reading so much and
jurnling and I'm like, wow, this makes sense for me.
And I was like, I think I'm a band sexual.
And so it's just after that some diagnosing like I'm
like this makes sense, and I just went with it.
(32:24):
And so again when I meet people, it's like I meet,
I just it's truly, it's the person and that's it,
and that's all.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I don't you just see the person.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You don't see gender, sexuality and see anything person, which
I think that.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think that's great. I think that's really lovely.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And I know so many friends who like are the
exact same way. And I've been with everything and anyone
under the sun. I've kind of dabbled in it all,
so I get it, like, if you, if you give
me this sparkly feeling, like I think, to be with
someone for a lifetime is very hard.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
We're not beast who should be doing that in But I.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Said a thing because I've been trying to research about
this recently. That's really a thing that you're not supposed
because I'm like, I'm so's it takes.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It takes such long think about how much you've changed,
just like in the last five years, oh right, god yeah,
and then talk about like having and going through that
season of change constantly with someone someone else navigating their
own personal growth or hardship or trauma or children, like,
(33:30):
there's just so much shit in life. For you to
stay consistently connected takes so much work, period, and you
have to be like willing to do the work, and
some people are ninety five percent committed to the work
where others are five and then the pendulum swing. So
it's like it's a mind fuck, truthfully. I mean that's
(33:51):
why we have a divorce rate. Over fifty percent of
people who are married get divorced. Like, well, no shit, why,
Like our world is wildly toxic in my opinion. Oh god,
things are changing twenty four to seven. We're being fed
crazy shit all the time on the news, social media,
of course, we're all over the goddamn place, like nothing's
(34:14):
easy anymore, no, and.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
There's just so much obviously, it's like with social media,
with you get bored. And so I used to have
this really immature view on love, like I'm talking to
it a long time ago, when I was like in
my early twenties where I thought like, if it takes work,
then it's not meant to be. I truly thought that.
I thought that, like if those butterflies fade, then that's
(34:36):
not the one. I didn't know any better, and I
haven't realized that it is work, and it is, but
it's like that's exhausting too, So it is it's hard
it's like you're hard to be able to put in
that and in the place that I'm in right now,
it's like that's like truly going through like just shit
and putting up with shit or dealing with shit, being
going through just the experiences that I have. Yeah, has
(35:01):
truly helped me to just realize like what I do
not want my life, what I won't put up with anymore.
And it feels so good. I've never been one of
those people who goes from relationship to relationship to relationship.
I remember even people being like Carolyn, don't you want
a date? Don't you like it'll be fun? Just do
it for fun? Hell no? Is that that ain't fun
(35:22):
for me to go meet and interview all these No?
Hell no? And again like that's a big investment, that's
a lot of my time. But I get this, like
radar that goes off now as soon as somebody is
stressing me out, as soon as it's like me, me,
me bye. Yeah, I don't put up with it for
more than two seconds. Now. I flicked them aside, like
(35:43):
I just don't. I protect my peace and I know
that's it to do with it.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I always say this, protecting your piece and setting boundaries
is an invaluable lesson everyone needs to learn.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
It is just it is. It is so so.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Important in this day and eight to really understand the
things that feed you and your soul and the things
that take from you.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. So you left a very and
I like and I love your openness about it because
there's so many women and abusive relationships who don't have.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
The tools to leave, and you did, but you stayed
for a.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
While, And what what gave you the strength to say?
I deserve better. I don't have to sit in this.
This doesn't have to be in my future. I don't
have to carry the shame and trauma, and neither does
my son.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Truly, I don't want to say like Survivor gave me
the It helped to just like go and do that
on my own and just the I'm of reflection in
the time of of just like and even honestly, even
this is the support I got afterwards and even hearing
like once I finished the show, it was like, I
(37:12):
don't have like, I'm not tied down to this person.
I have like now the financial means to do this too.
So it's like when you when I was going through that,
it's like I never believed like the stuff. I never
believed I was a piece of shit or believed like
the bad stuff that was said about me. It's just
hard to ever accept. I think that like someone you've
like committed this much time into there's a relationship that
(37:35):
you've you've been in for so long. It's like I
didn't want to. I almost listen to denial, like I
don't want to believe that this is happening. I don't
want to, and I did. I lied to myself. I wanted,
you know, it to work. I wanted to. But it's
like I got to this point where it's like, okay,
like I need to. I got to do better for
myself than for my kid. That's it, like I have
(37:58):
to do something, and I really do. Just credit like
just my time away and being able to process and
being able to just finally realize that I can. I
can do things on my own. I can. I'm stronger
than I ever freaking thought. And it's not just and
I'm not talking like you know, strength is like challenge
(38:19):
shit on Survivor, but just the mental and just the
and just knowing my own limits of like how much
can I Like I don't need to put up with
this anymore. I don't need to go through this anymore.
I I deserve better. And again I always like knew
that deep down, but it's like I'm done, Like I
can't do this.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
It's a brave thing to do.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It's a hard thing to do, no matter the circumstances,
especially when children are involved.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And I've lived it. I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I'm so empathetic to families who have to go through
the storm and then hold up, you know, an umbrella
and make sure their children don't get wet through their
own shit. So it's like a a really heavy process.
And what is it like now to be with you know,
have the clarity and have the freedom and you know,
(39:10):
have all this success. And it sounds to me what
you're saying is I've been tested, I've learned from it.
I see clarity, and now I want to execute on
the life I've always imagined because I have the means.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, I'm gonna cry because it's I'm still very much
like in this shit and it sucks and I try
just like I am proud of myself, and I tell
people because people will say, like, you have some confidence
and believe in yourself. It's like I freaking do. But
you know what, I've been told for a long time
(39:46):
that I'm selfish and that the decisions I make are
bad or even like going. It took me so many
years to even just like go and do things for
me finally and like it be okay when you have
like when you all you know, I'm selfish and the
decisions I make are bad and I'm oh, you go
on Survivor and that's bad and blah blah blah. It takes.
(40:08):
It takes. I still do struggle with that, like the
guilt and the even if I leave and go away
for a weekend or go and any time away from
my son, I feel guilty and feel and it's like, okay,
it's been hard to like transition into like the okay, no,
this is how I make my money. Now, this is
my job, so do laugh. This is my job. This
(40:30):
is but I am so I still am really hard
on myself when it comes to like just being a mom,
because I want to be there and be I know
the perfect mom doesn't exist, but I am I've had
years of like hearing bad stuff too, and so it's
just hard to just undo that. And so even with
the success and even with like you know, you can
(40:51):
have everyone say how wonderful you are, but it's it
takes a while for like those wounds to heal truly.
So that's why I have truly just continued to do
work on myself. And I've spent so when people are like,
go and date and go, and that's not going to
cure me, that's not going to help me, that's not
going to do this. I've told so many people this
(41:14):
is the work that I need to do. That's not
any anything that another human is going to cure me
of or save me from. I need to feel it.
So I've I've spent so many days sitting in my
room journaling, crying. I feel it all. And it's like, no,
I'm protecting my own damn self now. And so now
(41:36):
with like the good things happening, and I even remember
like getting the call from the Trade for the Traders,
I was like, I was so excited because it's such
a huge show and I'm like, who me? But I
still do suffer from what do they call that? Like
in Boster syndrome or whatever. Well it's not that I
don't think I'm great or whatever, but again, I still
battle that one hundred percent. I do.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I think that's also a very normal expectation as we
go through life learning and unlearning a lot of trauma.
And this is I mean, you know this as a
recovering attic, like it never just goes away.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It takes work every single day. It takes commitment every
single day. I am very much so that I have
to choose joy every single day. It is something I
have to actually commit to because it's easier for me
to sit in silence and suffering than sit in joy.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
And it's an act I have to do it. I
have to show.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Myself what it's like to be joyful because I know
pain well, I can hold it, I can I love it.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I feel at.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Ease in the dark, you know, like I am one
of those and I can point to it and say,
I see you, I know you, I'm familiar with you,
and I'm going to choose something else. And what I've
learned so much about being a mom is so much
of what our children learn is through the lens of
(43:05):
our happiness. So I better fucking figure it out, and
I better I need to start learning what brings me
joy in my life. I have to figure out what
makes me joyful and happy because if my kids, if
so much of my joy and happiness is dependent on
(43:26):
the way they see themselves, I'm up for the challenge.
But also I deserve it. I deserve joy, I deserve happiness.
I deserve all of the beautiful blessings that I didn't
think I was worthy enough. And I think you need
that you are worthy enough for the gifts that life
(43:48):
has given you and this journey, because fuck, you've been
through a lot of hardship and pain and you've you've
really found your way. So what is next? What is
what is this new found thing? Because everyone who opens
social media sees you, everyone who watches Survivor and Trade,
(44:10):
like everyone knows y'all as a group now on a
very celebrity level. How has that impacted you in your
small town?
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:19):
How has that impacted your son?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I like it's hard, like honestly, like even and it's
been like this for a while, where like when I
go places with him, like I always feel guilty, like
when it comes to sometimes I And it's not like
I'm like celebrity status, but yes, when we go places
like I do feel bad. I'm like, I just want
to be with my son. I don't want to be
(44:44):
like talk. I was at Home Goods for like over
an hour hugging people and like and I'm just like again,
I'm only one person, and I don't get like the
regular like, hey, I really loved your move out there.
I thought you were great. No, I get like, Carolyn,
you opened up about this, and so I want to
tell you about my traumas and I want to and
(45:05):
it's like it's heavy, shit shit I hear. And So
I was just at a bar in La At it
was like a Survivor watch party. I went in the
corner and I had my friend like blocking me, and
I was just like this, like don't let anyone near
me for like five minutes. Like more recently, I'm like
(45:25):
no boundaries. I can't no no, and I say no
to a lot of things, like I say no to
a lot of events. I say no because it emotionally
mentally takes a lot out of me too. It's not
that I don't care or I don't appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
You're an EmPATH. You take on the energy of other people.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
It's too much.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
You're an EmPATH, and with that you have to protect
your peace and yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
It's so true.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
That is powerful and you gets to see that.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yes, so I wouldn't minimize that quality about you, and
I think that something special. But you definitely have to
protect your piece when you're an impath, because I feel
that in my bones when I walk into a room.
I have a partner who can light up every single
person and walk out with so much energy. I literally
(46:15):
went to an event last night in the city and
she was up at the top of the stairs and
I was already out the door and she's laughing. I'm like,
I want to go home. I've I've I can't give
any more to this room.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yes, I'm zapped, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I've run when I'm I'm not kidding, And I always
wear it like I'm tall. I'm tall anyway, but if
I go to any of this crap, I always make
sure to wear heels even taller so I can see
above everybody. So I want to be like six two.
I'm dead serious, so I can like not like control
the room, but just nowhere everyone like you just whatever,
(46:51):
be able to find people or whatever. I have run
out so many times where I just I don't say goodbye,
I don't have nothing. I hit I like point of like,
oh okay, I can't handle anymore. And I start running
and running and I hide in the corner and I'll
be like, come and get me.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I'm down the street, shut myself in a room, and
I need to just be done with the world. Yeah,
And I just that's the way we recharge, and I
think there's nothing wrong with it. But I think your
gift is your vulnerability. I think your gift, your gift
to every person who can watch you, be with you,
share space with you, is your gift of vulnerability and
(47:30):
your willingness to share your scars. And I think that's
taking back your power in your journey and not letting
shame dictate your journey and your and your story. And
I am grateful for that. I appreciate your honesty to
show up and be unapologetic and exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
And I'm I'm rooting for you. I don't know what's next.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I don't know what you want to do next, but
it seems like you're in a good place, and it's
so nice to meet you. But if you could leave
anything for our listeners and viewers, what would it be?
Speaker 1 (48:02):
What just came to me is and what I work
on every single day is just pay attention to the
words that you speak to yourself. I used to say
so much nasty shit to myself that it became reality.
But not only became reality, I believed it, and I
know when it comes to there's like debate about positive affirmations,
(48:22):
and like, it's not about being like filling your brain
with fluff or a bunch of bullshit. It's if I
can believe all of the negative things I've said about
myself and then make it my reality. Why can't I
believe the positive? So truly?
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Do?
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I have like bad thoughts that might creep up, of course,
but it's no longer the norm, and it's no longer
like if I get a thought like, oh, Carolyn Blige,
you you look bad or blah whatever, you're a piece
of shit. If I even get that for a second,
I'm like, oh, that's now uncomfortable. But before when I
was filling my like okay, Carolyn, you deserve this, you
(48:59):
it is it's like I fucking do. I do believe that,
like I believe it now. But I pay attention to
what I say to myself every single day because that
is going to either make like you said, you make
that decision to like okay, joy, and I have to
turn that on. I have to like, how am I
going to show up? But how am I talking to myself?
(49:19):
That is absolutely going to dictate my day. So I
am so aware of what I say to myself every moment.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I love that, And I think that's a good lesson
for a lot of our younger generation right now who
grow up on social media, which means people have access
to a lot of very very toxic judgments and comments
that are hurting our younger generation. Our suicide rates, our
depression rates, like everything is skyrocketing, especially in the queer community.
(49:50):
So oh, I think that's an important practice we need
to focus more on, is how we talk to ourselves,
because we'll show up differently, we'll show up into rooms
a lot lot different and we need a little more
positive forward thinking these days than the negative shit we're
seeing on the news and the toxic masculinity that is
(50:12):
being spewed all over the fucking place. So I love
what you said, and I think it's important, and I
know it's impactful, and I know you're changing the lives
of a lot of people just by showing up and
telling your story. So thank you for being on Wide Open.
You are a sweetheart. Keep being exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
You are a light, you are a joy, and I
see nothing but great things for you. Carolyn. Thank you,
Thank you truly, You're so sweet.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Don't be sorry for being emotional. I'm grateful for your vulnerability.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I'll be crying for a little bit after.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
This, and hope and I hope that we get some
you know, some hang time coming up. I don't know
if we are paths will cross, but I.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Hope they do. Thank you. Thanks all right, me?
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Yeah, of course, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronoff, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
(51:29):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder,
and I'm your host Ashlyn Harris.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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