June 30, 2025 • 58 mins
We’re finishing out Pride 2025 with three queer blondes sipping wine: Ashlyn sits down with her friends– and sometimes family– Queer Eye alum Carson Kressley and Grand Slam champion Rennae Stubbs. They discuss gay Thanksgiving, Carson & Rennae’s secret horse girl pasts, hall passes, dating your teammates, and just what it means to have community there for you in the hardest season of your life.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another week of Wide Open
with Ashly and Harris. I'm so excited for these two
guests today, my friends, my homies, my mate, my queer
fucking icon. I know, I feel so embarrassed what I'm wearing.
You look amazing, the very gorgeous Carson Kresley.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
That's me.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Everybody, Hello, I'm wide open right now.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Well your legs are actually clothes.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Well, yes, but we'll get there.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
We're just gonna feed you a little more wine. And
Renee Stubbs, my favorite mate of all time. I don't
know how we became such fast friends, but thank god.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Plame a polo game your me.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I know, for those of you who do not know,
these two the original queer Eye.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
The Og the og baby, which now stands for me
kay and Rue.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Paul's Drag Race, my favorite, thank you iconic, thank you
Emmy Award winning all the things, Yeah, serving all the
greatest queer content possible out there. But most importantly, it's
such a beautiful thing that the show RuPaul's Drag Race
has gone so global because it gives it gives so
(01:27):
many young kids a place to kind of feel like
they belong. Yeah, totally and I love that so much
about what you do. And it's been how many seasons now.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
We are on season seventeen and right now streaming on
Paramount Plus is our season ten All Stars Tournament of Champions.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And look at him, he has an aged a day.
It's today.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I will give my compliments, your compliments to my surgeon.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hey, yeah, I'm like almost there. I'm like, do I
need I'm about to be forty this year.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
We're at a time like a child still.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Thanks, honey and Renee, we have talked about that too.
Let me introduce you my show Grand Slam Champion, most
Iconic ranked number one Doubles.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'd love when Soka plays talk about tennis.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Why because you are You are a legend paving the
way and you just don't stop your commentating. You have
your tennis podcast, you're a queer activists like you do
all the things.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
It's great, and she does them so beautifully.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
She really does.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
She's doing it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Thanks. Although we not, Ashlea and I will like we
feel so unaddressed because look at you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You look so good.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Look at you?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Do you not?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Did you just wake up? Do you go to bed
in a suit?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
No, I I had a horse show last night, and
then I drove last night and.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
You're just like, oh, Philadelphia to New York. That's not far.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, it is when the Lincoln Tunnel is closed for
repairs at midnight.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
To her, I have to run to me. It's an We'll.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Literally be in the city, city and having the best time,
and then she's like, I gotta go, I gotta go,
I gotta go. I got the tunnel is going to close.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
They really need to fix it.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And sometimes they'll just close the tunnel out of the
blue and you'll drive all the way down to the
hovel in Tunnel and I'm like, this one's closed as well.
I'm like, how does one am I supposed to? You
gotta Stan Island?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
No, I gotta get on a ferryes went I just
they don't even run that late, No, don't.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You've got to experience this.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, city that never sleeps definitely sleeps.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
The tunnels sleep absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So should we explain our first little gathering? Go ahead, go.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Ahead, right, Well, people are going to really understand how
beautiful this human is.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
To my right, oh my gosh, and like why okay
with my left?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay, So you're gonna have to help me because you're
so animated.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And I's gonna sit the stage for the listeners at home.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
If you don't know this, Cowson's dream is to actually
just speak Australian.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
On a regulars late like a right out yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You talked about this last night at the Liberty. You
just have to substitute every e r.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
With an a an a with an ear so instead
of never never never. Yeah. If you do that, you're good.
So basically Australians have completely botched the English language, Like
we don't care about pronunciations at all. We just everything
just drops off at the end.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
You know what guys do so well? You make everything
cute with like a little i e. Like oh did
you bring your sonnies? Oh do you have your swimmies?
Like you could just make something like terrible wrecky cute
with just adding an ie.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I mean it has to enhance your dating life. I mean,
I know you're in a relationship, but like if I
had that accent walking in these street chilling.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right the thing you're doing just fine?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yes, thank you think you're doing just fine.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
All right, So I'll set the stage a little bit.
So you were going through your end of your previous
marriage and in a not a good place. You were
not in a good place. And every year, this beautiful
human being to my right always has me come down
or I just go. He really has no option for Thanksgiving.
(05:09):
I always go to Carstons for Thanksgiving. I even went
to your place for Christmas one year when I was
working here over Christmas and so I was, you know,
after Carson's and I called you the day before and
I was like, hey, dude, what are you doing for Thanksgiving?
And You're like nothing. I don't have the kids, so
you know, I'm essentially alone. I was like, fuck that,
You're not alone. You're coming with me. I hadn't even
(05:30):
asked Carson. I just said, you're coming with me.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Any friend of Rene's is a friend of mine.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
He's like, bring all the lazzie.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
And I said, Carson, do you mind if I bring
a friend with me? And He's like, no, absolutely not, darling. Sure,
And sure enough you slept in Carson's bed and.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
We had the most moral was I there?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
You were there. You're the first not the first night, kay.
You were so sweet and so gracious.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Well, it's normally I do like a friends giving friendsgiving,
So my friend Victoria, who says the Southern Belt. It's
basically like a summer house, like casting for Bravo. Victoria
the Southern Bell. And usually my friend Christine.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Who's in Amish Country by the way.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
The DC political person. And then my two best gays known.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Forever, Darcy and Carlos, and yeah, best cooks. Usually.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
The best thing about our relationship when I'm there is
that the boys do the girls things and I do
the boys things.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I just made the fire.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I make fire.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
How was it right?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
That's pretty much like chopped wood. I remember the time
I chopped wood and it was hollow. It was like
a rotten piece of what. I was like, I'm going
to chop this wood, and then I did. It was
like air and the axe went like almost like.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
If you if you really want to see it. It's
actually on my Instagram page at some point down whenever
it was during the it was doing cod the pandy
like to it during the pandy.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I you can make anything awful sound better by making
a pandemic a pandy.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You showed me some pictures of all the guys. The
bodies were bodying and wait in my house. Yes, everyone
was ripped.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And everyone but me, come on, not true enough. You
know I'm ripped enough, old gal, thank you.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And for someone who puts absolutely no effort in zero
really blessed action must be nice.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
We get up in the morning at his house and
it was.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Like we created our pod.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
We did. We had one of gas and that situation
with the axe. We bought it at a because he
likes to antique. I love love and yeah, and so
we went and got this nineteen twelve ax that couldn't
chop well clean anything.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
But he was like, I just wanted to have an
axe so I could say.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Dinner, bring me the axe, which he did. It's on
my web page going yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
All the time, but you can't say it if you
don't really have an axe.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
When I got to the house, because I when I
told you I wasn't you know, doing anything for Thanksgiving,
she was like, oh my gosh, we have to do
the best gay friends giving you're ever going to experience
in your life. And I was like, okay, so we
like get in the car. I had no idea what
I was walking.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Into literally right like I know, no one knows.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And you were so kind and gracious. You were like
everyone was like, no, you're sleeping in Carson's room. So
I had your like beautiful suite with these beautiful pillow
cases from the mess like it was so.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
It's like climbing Kilimanjaro. Yeah, into his bed.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I got those pillows from this woman who was in
a car accident in Hungary and these nuns had these pillows.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
No, it's a great story.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Her name is Pandora to Balfazar, I think it's made up.
And she was like an heiress or something and she
was like living with her count husband in Hungry and
she got into a terrible accident and she had to
be in the hospital for like a year, and the
nuns at the hospital propped her up with these giant
Hungarian goostown pillows and she credits them with like basically
saving her life. I was like, I need these pillows.
(09:02):
Thank you for the sales pitch, and now I too,
sleep on the Hungarian down pillows. It's authorized by nuns
and it's like sleeping on a cloud.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
It really on a second, you've never told me that story,
and I have also slept in that bit. Yeah, it
would be funny the story if we had all three.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Slept in that we should next time he tried to
sleep with me time there's so much room, and.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I thing will happen. I can assure all.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The one thing that I know and guarantee is that
the one time in my life I was sleep with
a man and I'd be fine.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
But I do I do think like it was so
lovely to be introduced to horses by both of you,
because you both do have such a rich history. Yes,
tell me, I want to know why you both have
been so captivated and like I've read a lot about
your past and being raised by would you have like
(09:56):
a bunch of ponies when you were young?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
I grew up on a pony five bony farm. It
is like literal after school special waiting to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And you should have made miss I know and I
world champion too, yep, which you don't talk about a
couple of times.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Well it's such a weird like little world, But I
think this situation is the same for both me and Renee.
We grew up in like a kind of a horse
centric family and they've always been around. And I grew
up on a pony farm and my grandparents had like
two hundred ponies and they were literally outside my bedroom
window and I would just jump on That's heaven. It's
(10:33):
a great way to grow up. I was so blessed
and I would literally this is where it turns into
the after school Special. Like when you're like the little
gig kid and you're like ten years old, You're like,
something is just not right here. I just feel like weird.
I would go out into the barnyard and we had
big giant troughs that were made out of like a
(10:55):
rusty metal, but the horses and the ponies had licked
them so much. They were like smooth and soft, and
I would lay like in the hay with them and
they were my friends. C the After School Special promo
right now starring Tina You others as a young Carson Kresla,
so that was my background. So they are just, you know,
(11:17):
very therapeutic. They are probably the animal I'm an animal lover,
but I would say that horses are probably the most
like calming influence. They're very zen, They're extremely sensitive, so
they're the most honest animal out there. You cannot lie
to a horse. You can't be like, oh I'm having
a great day. Like.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
They will feel every emotion do you.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Feel because you are. I think when I think of
like a horse, there's so much beauty and grace and
just the way it moves.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's like it's so powerful, but yet, like cousin said,
they are so sensitive. Like you'll see, there's plenty of
video on I mean, I send you Instagram videos all
the time because you know, since she went to you,
I'm upset she's once horses.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
I'm a cowgirl come one weekend.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
My niece is a very good horse trainer for Western horses,
and that's all she does.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I watched your stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I watched her the whole time I was at your house.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I can just you know, can run barrels its.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I don't do it because I literally one time we
were filming an episode of Queer Eye and it was
in Texas, and like Carson knows how to ride. And
that's when you will always make an ass of yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
When you're like that. He's literally a world champion saddle
bread settle bread uh huh.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Ride my horse is when you want them to slow down,
you gear them with your voice and you just kind
of say WHOA like you just rate them. They're very responsive,
at least minor to voice commands. But this western horse
I was riding thought I was saying whoa, And all
I did was say the W part of whoa, and
it stopped dead. I somersaulted off. I landed on my
(12:50):
two feet. I was holding the reins and everybody was like,
you are really good, and I was just like, that
was not supposed to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Stay tuned, We'll be right back after this. I think
the beautiful thing of the whole story, to circle it back, is,
you know, Pride's coming up, and community is so important
(13:18):
and now more than ever. And what I'm so grateful
for is the community. Like you guys barely knew me,
and it invited me to eat at your home, but
it was so lovely and just like having the boys
there and it was just so therapeutic, and it like
(13:39):
I remember waking up most morning sobbing, like am I
gonna be okay? And you guys would just like, let's
go for a walk, let's go to the horses, And
I don't know, it's that it's so heartfelt and so
kind and not everyone gets places like that to land
in the hardest season of their life. So I'm so
(13:59):
grateful for both of you for doing that and opening
your home up for me to cry, to laugh, to
feel a part of something much bigger than my situation.
I think it's really endearing and it's very kind.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, I think with our community, the queer community, I
really do think that we do grow up a little
bit like a little we feel a little different, so
we don't really feel like the normal society when we're kids,
Like you know, all of us. I mean, when I
finally realized I was gay, I was like, oh, oh oh,
all of that makes sense now, all the feelings I had,
(14:34):
all the moments where I didn't connect with the guy
or I didn't have a long term relationship. I was like,
I tried, but I didn't even know why.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I watched Personal Best fifteen times. It's all making sense now.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But you know, we grew up like that. But also
our friends become such an important community to us, like like,
I know Casson will always be there for the rest
of my life. You know, it's like we build that.
It's sort of like he's like the another brother that
I've got two brothers. I feel like, cousin, say, you
do get that way with your queer community, is that
they become your family. Especially for me. I I'm not
near my family, so I have relied on my friends
(15:13):
my whole life to get through my life in a
lot of ways. And so when you gravitate to friends,
you just hold them so ideally because I become so
important to you.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
How was that for both of you when you were younger,
finding like real like community and I like your identity
in a time like both of you are pretty pretty
similar in age, and I'm a lot I'm not a
lot younger, but I'm younger. But it was a different times.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
It was a very different time, and my coming of age,
you know, was like there were so many layers of
like the number one feeling that comes to mind is fear.
And I know that sounds like sad and whatever, but
it's not because it all worked out great. But you know,
it was the eighties and being I didn't even know
what gay was, you know, I would watch like PBS
(16:00):
specials about somebody who was like born in the wrong
body or something. I was like, maybe that's me. Or
I'm always always trying to find answers. And then the
AIDS epidemic was happening, and I would go to the
grocery store and I'm like twelve years old and with
my mom and like Rock Hudson is on the cover
of the National Acquirer and it says like gay cancer
and all these things. I'm just like, oh my god,
(16:21):
I think that's me. I'm probably going to get that.
Well wow, I'm just probably going to die. And then
I remember like going to like I know, I know,
I know, you.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Know, really really young.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, I mean literally when I was like four or
five years old, I didn't know what it was. But
I was like first grade. You know, people are like
seven or eight years old. And TV was such a
big part of like life back then. It was just
regular old TV, like three channels.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
We had to change it with hands every Okay, don't
outdate yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
I had to.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I had to have yet telling.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
It was so fun religion at all in actual hand.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
But everyone would come into school and be like, oh
my god, don't you love the six million dollar man
Lee Majors?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And I was like, yes, I do, actually so did I.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So he was so hot, so I knew that.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Like I was always you know, gravitated towards you know,
the masculine.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Like, yeah, it's really right.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Let's talk about Richard hatch On on Battlestar Galactica, Like,
but I didn't know what that was.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And then you know, I see I was in love
with wonder woman where I didn't realize it. Yes, I
was like, why is she so great and hot? You
know I live in Newton John.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
I was like, oh, I was in love with Olivia
Newton John for other reasons. She was just so glamorous
and pretty. But you really you're struggling to find out,
like where is my place?
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Who am I?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
What's wrong with me? And literally like going to sleep
at night praying like please make me normal. So that's
like a big part of it. So I didn't really
have I was never surrounded by like friends or anybody
I could talk to. And I think the thing about
growing up as a queer kid that is different from
so many other differences. If you get picked on at
(18:12):
school for being you know, a fag or a pussy
or whatever they're gonna.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Call you, you, you can't go home and tell your parents
because that's going to out you.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
But if you're like the tallest kid in your class,
you're like the only Asian girl in your class.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Saying something towards you that you can say you go
to your family who are probably like you, and you say, God,
I can't believe this happened today, and they would say,
it's all right, you know, we're this.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
You're gonna be fine.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We're tall family. You'll be fine, and you'll appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
We're gonna love it one day. That's the thing that
queer kids don't have.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That's so true.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And I think that's the thing that's.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Powerful about I'm very proud of having been on Queer
Eye for the Straight Eye twenty years ago and now
RuPaul's drag Race, and you alluded to it in the
opening of this show, is that that visibility shows kids
from Because of streaming, kids can watch drag Race from
Malaysia till Milwaukee and say, oh my god, that person's
(19:10):
like me. Oh I'm not the only one. Oh there's
a place for me. Wait, I can be celebrated. That
is so powerful And we always talk about visibility, whether
it's on podcasts or on TV or in athletics and sports.
It's so important because you never know what young person
(19:30):
is out there seeing you and saying I'm gonna be okay.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
So anyway, I mean me in sports.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I was like, okay, it was fine because I was
surrounded by.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Sydney like what was it?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, I mean, but honestly Ashland like as I said, like,
I didn't really know. I was like that, I just was.
I was a tomboy, right, and tomboy was It's a
normal terminology. She's sporty, she's a tomboy, that's it. But
what we didn't realize is that, oh, that's also that
is usually oh, you might be a lesbian, but there's
(20:02):
also a lot of straight women that we know that
play sports that were tomboys as well. But for me,
I was a tomboy. But I look back on photos
of myself as a five year old. I mean, you
have to showed you some of the with the cowboy
hat and stuff. I was like, hello, you know my
best friend said to me when I came out to her, finally,
she was the first person I said the words to.
She goes and she called me and you know both
know this story. I think. But I have a lot
(20:24):
of nicknames, stubbsy. My family called me Wren short for Renee,
and my best friend said, You're so not a Wren.
You're such a Ron. And that was like when I
was like thirteen. So she goes, you're such a Ron,
you know, because I was such a tomboy, and she
probably didn't even realize for sure at the time what
that meant as well. She was just like, that's going
(20:45):
to be your nickname from me. And her nickname was
Face because her name is Tracy, and she was, oh,
she's so beautiful that her boyfriend called her face.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I don't love Ron for you.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
You don't. It's a little bit you're not. It's not
such a enough. It's a term of endearment from her.
Like I'll call her now and we were in our
fifties and I'll call it and she'll just pick the
phone and hey, Ron, what's up. I go, hey, Face,
what's going on? Like that's my name for her. Even
her kids call me Ron. One of her kids is
one of my god children, and they call me Ron,
you know.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
But it's just the Nane to everyone.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, I'm nine to a lot of my friends that
have kids, because the kids can't say Renee. It's really
hard to say, so they go, nay, kids call me Nina.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Really you call me, I call you Rene? No E,
Nna I e Rene.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, when we talk about being in the public eye
now and you know, twenty I can't believe it's been
twenty years from New Over twenty years.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah, thank god.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
It came out in two thousand and three, so it's
twenty two years. Wow, and I don't remember most of it. Wait,
what year two thousand and three? Okay, that's when the
show came out. I came out, you know when you
would put it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I moved to New York Ballsy for the network that
early on Yes, to say, here are these five men
that we want to take. Have them take up space
and be exactly who they are coming off the back
end of all of the Matthew Shepherd, the aids, upid
like all of these that is fal network.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Kudos to Bravo, Yes, because took the show to many
networks who are like, uh no. And then there actually
was because the show was called Queer Eye for the
Straight Guy. Even the name, like some networks were like, oh,
that's a bit strong.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I believe, and I'm not.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It's not privy to all these network conversations, but I
think there was even some pushback about the name after
we were greenlit. And credit goes to the guys who
created the show, David Collins, Scout Productions out in la
He was very adamant, like, no, queer means extraordinary, it
means looking at something from through a different lens. It's
(22:58):
very apropos to the show and it needs to stay
that way. And again, kudos to Bravo because they got
it and they put it on that work and it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Was made Bravo in a lot of ways as well,
because it gave them such an incredible visibility in such
a different way, and they were so and as you said,
a huge credit.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
It's a big especially because it really was the first time.
It wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't about like death and just heartache.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
And it also wasn't There were wonderful shows like Will
and Grace that are press you know, came before us,
which we love, and Queer as Folk was in that
same era.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Which we love, the L word with the L word,
which we loved, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
The same era, but those were all scripted, and so
I think our show was one of the few where
it was just us being like our authentic selves, being
completely honest of like who we were, and just going
out there and hopefully doing good work, like being great
at styling somebody or being great at designing someone's home.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
And I would meet people.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Out and who knows where, you know, if I went
to a horse show or if I was traveling or
doing an appearance. So I never met a gay person before.
And I was like, have you never been on an airplane?
Have you never gotten the highlights? Of course you have.
But the power of television is that you're in their
living rooms, you're in their bedrooms, They're talking about you,
they're kind of interacting with you. And on this you
(24:30):
know eat as we are entering Pride Month. Also, the
power of being out is geometric and exponential, and you
don't know what kind of effect it will have because
when someone knows you as a person, as a queer person,
they say, well, I like this person, I like Renee.
Why shouldn't she be able to get married or adopt
(24:51):
kids or have the exact same rights that I do.
So it personalizes and it humanizes and it build allyship.
When you're out, you don't have to be on TV.
It's just being, you know, an out member of your community.
When people know you, it's harder for them to hate you.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yes, I love that. And it was like such a
beautiful moment for the queer community to have an unscripted
show that really showed how two different types of people
from two different types of worlds could really coexist, which
(25:34):
gave permission to a lot of people. And I think
that the whole premise of the show, when you talk
about coming into people's living rooms like that was the
important piece to it of connection. And we're not really
that different when you put us in the same room.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
And we were rooting for the straight guy, Yeah, we
want you to do well.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And he ended up loving the experience with.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
You all, which we had no idea.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, and you know, there's some people can be a
little touchy feely with things like that, and I think
that when a big burly man who's kind of like
a little bit of a disaster with his outfits and
his clothing and wanting to you, I'm not looking at you, teling,
but like to actually have men fix and help him
(26:23):
be better in every aspect. At the end, they go, oh,
and by the way, they didn't hit on me. They
weren't gross to me.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Why would I have hit on.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
A very hot There was a very hot figure skater,
and I was like, trying to do the math.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
I was like, straight fit.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What but I'm going to go find that episode?
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, oh my god, he was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Okay, so you just ruined my whole point of telling
that story.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I took them to what what do you think has
changed the most for you both now that you are
in the spotlight and now that you know fame is
a weird word and it's like kind of icky sometimes,
But the fact does you both have a very, very
large platform, and it's visibility, as we've already mentioned, is
so major in our community, especially now more than ever.
(27:10):
I however, I don't think people understand what comes with
the spotlight. And I'm curious, do you feel compelled. Do
you feel it's like a mission and a duty now
that you both are in the spotlight to continue advocating
more for the queer community or do you just show
up and you're like this me, you either are with
(27:32):
it or you're not, Like what's your thought process of that?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I'm a balance. I'm on a board called lpactmail Pack,
and it's a lesbian political action committee. So our role
is to literally try and get illicit money from people
to support queer candidates. So that's where I feel. Politically,
I go and I put my efforts into that. So
if you want to donate, go to tmailpack dot com.
But also I'm, as you both know, I'm a very
(27:58):
authentic human being and I don't like to be in
a room or be talking on X or on the
socials or even on my own podcast without being truly
authentic to who I want to be and speaking up
for what I believe in. Sometimes it gets me into
a bit of trouble. But at the same time, I'm like,
I can't let go of this stuff. I'm I'm in
aries and I'm going to go forward, and I want
(28:20):
to be authentic, but I want to fight battles that
I feel, whether it's a quality for women, a quality
for our queer community, whatever it is, I'm going to
say it. I have to tone it down sometimes just
because I can be a little, a little on the edge.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Sometimes companies I don't believe that, But that's the thing for.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Me do my work politically and also be authentic and
talk about the things that I want to talk about
that my community should be hearing and knowing about.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I think it's just about we do have literally a
microphone in front of us.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah, And it's about.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Really educating people, I think, And that's I feel like
that's what I've always done. Like whether it's about or
style or interior design, it's like I.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Want to or the queer community.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I want to explain to people and educate because that
is the best way to get them on board and
change their minds and be empathetic. I think it's such
a divisive time right now. It's like us versus them,
and it's just like, listen, we're all people. We're all
going to be dead in like X number of years.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I know.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
My best friends said, make a difference and just be authentic.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
And help one another. You know, we're all in this this.
We all live in this same weird world.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And everybody has the same concerns. I mean, my best
friend literally said to me at some of this year,
I told you this, I think, well, we've only got
like twenty good summers left.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Right, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And I was like, I know, I And I was
like what I was like, but oh my god, we do.
It's true. So I'm like everything now, I make decisions,
I'm like it, I'm doing it like they only live once.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
We all care about, like, what is the direction that
Tom Ford is going to go in now that he's
no longer at the Helm, Like we all have these
same things.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
That Nicole kid a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
How great We're gonna digress, but how great does Nicole
Kidman look?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Oh yeah, Nick looking good?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Slightly different looking, but beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Now, you know after we had a beautiful time together
and then life in the public eye, like with my
dating life, it is so dick and wild, and I'm
curious for both of you how this platform of people
actually knowing who you are, how has it impacted your
(30:38):
dating life? You stop because it has flipped.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm boring. I'm boring. I've been the same person for
like sixty seventy years.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Come on you, I'll get back.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I'll get back to the partner.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
You know what who I never say, but that's probably
where you are going to go with that.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Oh gosh, my dating life.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I mean, this is what we to This is what
we talked about table Brazil the same language, but it
was marvelous.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Oh yeah, He'll be like, well, I look at this guy,
I'm saying, and he's Brazilian I'm like, oh my.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
What are the apps these days? Tell me your way? Yeah,
I need to know all of the things.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Well, I mean the gays have scruff.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You know what we're being wide open today? That is
what different type of wide open we're here.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Don't go there with that. I just know where your
brain is.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I just know this is a PG podcast site and
maybe that studious why. Also, like a lot of people
are on Riah, which is this like celebrity dating app.
And I signed up for Raya like when it was new,
and this is like ten years ago before the pandemic,
and it says like who are you and like I'm
(31:57):
a man, and then like what are you looking for
a man?
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I like, what are you into? Whatever?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And they verify you and you may have to approve
you that you're really like a celebrity, which is a
little weirdow. And but I somehow didn't save my settings correctly,
and I started getting all these really hot guys, like
there was getting like a kickboxer, an MMA fighter, one
(32:23):
of the somebody from like a very popular television.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Show was like, oh my god, I had no idea
you were gay.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I'm sending them all messages and then it turned out
my settings were wrong and I thought I was a
woman looking for a man. So I had message some
like people in Hollywood saying, that's so great that you're gay.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
I'll see you at an event or something.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
We should hang out a cricket. So of course, because
they were like, why is this dude like up in
my dms?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And then after about you straight? That was your strange
I've had your straight voice, and so.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, that didn't work out well because I had my
settings wrong. And then when I got to a man
wanting man, it was it was a lot of hairdressers,
which is fine, but I was like that's a little
too similar to me.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah, like we're both of these.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You're tight.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
My type.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
I'm a very opposite to attract person, Okay, And there's
a lot of gays where like you'll meet them like
this is Barry and this is very too and I'm
just like you look exactly like and like we met
it Barries, and like I can't I want something very different.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
We you know, we had a really easy as athletes,
like we had our pick of teams right that we
could run around with.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I think you're I think you're outing all of only
yourself right now, and you played a single sport with
single people playing.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Well well dating teammates.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I did, true, I did. I did in my double
spoton for sevent years.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Like tell me everything, like I can only am because
you know, I dated, I married my team. But there
was thirty five of us.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, yeah, you could blame somebody else.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, but tell them about how like you would like
have to like travel together and be everywhere, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
You'd be together or even give that.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
But you were sash around well at the beginning. Because
that was my first relationship. That's when I came out.
She outed me, which because I didn't realize that she'd
already kissed a woman, I don't even know where it went.
I didn't even want to know the details.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
But I like working together and very before we got.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Together, we were we played doubles together at a tournament
in Indian Wells, which is a big tournament, and we
played and we were getting so close and I just
wanted to be with her all the time.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Right, Dinahshour is still alive.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Dinoshaur was still live. And it was two weeks.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Later, okay, because I went to the.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Dinah Shour before I knew I was gay, which is
I missed out the big time.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
That's a sign.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, well, I actually just went and played the golf
program because that's also signed.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Oh my god, anyway, who's finishing each other's sentences kills me?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
So so we played together and then we made eight
Out together for the first time there and I was freaking, did.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You make the first movie?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
No? She did.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're in the front of an old remember the old
szmobile cars that we rented, and we're in the front
seat and it was like one young seat. Yeah, bench seat,
So we had a bench seat very hand.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
You don't have to go to the back seat.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
No, and you don't have to you don't even need
to lift up the handle anyway. So she yes, the armress,
thank you, and she came over and kissed me, and
I jumped out of the car and I was like,
that can never happen again. Oh my god, I'm not gay. Yes,
sweat to God and so okay, so cut to we
left the next day. I went back to Orlando, where
I lived at the time, and she went to Miami
(35:39):
next tournament, right, and then I was like, of course
we're texting, because we did have phones in and I
texted her.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I was like, what what floor are you on?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Because we were staying at the same hotel, but I
went home for two days because I went to Florida,
and so I was like, what room are you and
she's like eighteen o one. I was like, oh, okay,
I'll try and get a room on the eighteenth floor, right.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
And I did and I did, and then I hated it,
but I want Moura.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Exactly, so anyway, so you'll love this. So then we
had to play against each other. So now we're sleeping
together for like two weeks, and then we had to
play against each other.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Fully, don't skip over there, you just fully jump in.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, jumped in.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Realize, oh my god, you're competing.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Now now we're officially sleeping together in love blah blah blah.
We get to the next tournament. I'm playing with Lindsay
Davenport and Lisa Raymond, who was my girlfriend. Lisa Raymond
is playing with Gabriella Sabatini, which, as you know, Gabby
is so smoking heart, so it was I gave her
a pass because I'm like, I would play with Gabby
as well. So anyway, we're playing, we're staying together. Now
(36:42):
we're playing against each.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Other, and you're also like sneaking in through the hotel,
like not.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Not trying to look like we were staying together. No, no, no,
that was the first time when we stayed together. So
we're staying together and we're playing against each other, and
we're a settle and it starts raining and the light
goes down, So now we have to go back to
our hotel room together in the middle of the match.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Right and makes sweet sweet love and then go back.
We did that adversary, so we have won by that.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Point, and then we ended up using and that's when
I said to Lisa, Okay, we're really good players, right,
we cannot play against each other. Let's just play together.
Because we had talked about playing together but it didn't
sort of work out because of certain reasons. And then
she's like, yeah, this can't because we were always going
to have to play against each other and that would
have just been right good, Right, So we started playing
(37:34):
together and then that ended up being very good for us,
and we won a lot together. I think we want
three slams together. And we won thirty three to sixty.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
You've won over sixty.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I won sixty and I won thirty three of those
with Lisa.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
Right, the French Open, that's.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
The only one we didn't win. But Australian Wimbledon thing yep, yeah, babe,
it's wimble done.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Wimble done. That's not a tea. Yeah, everybody, it's okay.
I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Well forever, it will be like yeah, but with a
D it's like don yeah, like it rhymes with ron. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Why is she yelling at lesbians? Stereotypical lesbian?
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Sorry I brought up the French Open? Marriage?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
But how did you did? You just keep playing together?
Like how would a fight?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Oh? Well, there was one classic match in San Diego.
We were playing a final and I think we lost,
served to go down five to one, so it looked
like we were done right here and we're playing imagine
we're playing two great players and a corner cove and
Lindsay Davenport and I said something to her. She was
mad about it, and she told me to fuck off,
and then I.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Told her to fuck off and the girlfriend, yes, yes,
oh wow, Because we're it's in a final, it's big,
it's heated, it's very stressful with a big crowd, and
so we stopped talking to each other literally, and it
went from five to one to five to two to five, three, five,
four to five to six, five up, and then she
finally started talking.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
To me, and then I'm like, now you want to
talk to me. We've just won five straight games. And
then of course we lose my serve serving for the match,
and I go, don't fucking talk to me, and then
sure enough we won the tie break and then we're like.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Whoa, we won very bipolar.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
After you won that, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
We went out and had a party. Okay, we didn't
fight off the court. Even when we lost, it would
be a moment or two where it probably wouldn't be
happy for a couple hours. Especially met Lisa could let
it go like that like super easy.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
But that's like an athlete mentality because I'll say this
with my current partner now, like I'm so like to
be a great athlete, you have to have like really
short term memory.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah really, because like you have to be Yeah, you're no.
Sometimes your ass kicked like so hard.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
And it's so technical.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
If you remembered and held onto it, you wouldn't want
to try, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It's even with writing, you're like, oh, you.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Can't carry one mistake with you the entire map, the
entire game, or whatever you're doing. So I do feel
like I bring that into my relationship, like if we
get in a tiff, I repair very quickly. Liketure repair
for me is like, but it's probably because I was
an athlete who if I made a mistake, I couldn't
make ten more mistakes in the game because of that
(40:19):
one mistake. I was like, yeah, done.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
It's also personality though, like I'm a scorpio, so like
I literally take notes. I was like, on June third,
nineteen seventy one, you said that I looked puffy, and
then like I haven't, and then I can pull that
out of my records.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
I was like, well, I.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Don't think you remember what you said on June first,
nineteen seventy one, do you?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
So you will die?
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Hold on, oh big time.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
I have a whole Is there anything that I did
that is.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Sure? Only when I would tell you.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, okay, good, yeah, okays.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Are kind of like we had a thing like if
you weren't married by.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
A certain age, we would live together.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yet what is wait, what's the story? Because I do
remember this at dinner.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
We don't have partners.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
By the time we're in a hundred, it's not going
to get married and take care of each other.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Is that one hundred? That's how he feels about it.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Only have twenty more summers.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
We're not that old.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Oh that's right.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
God, this is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I just adore this guy so much. He's like, literally
my favorite person in the world name.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Truly so sweet and you bled herself.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Well, zach Efron's my favorite person, but I don't know him,
so you're.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
My Kate Blanchett is my favorite person too.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Oh yeah, Kate Blanchette. Yeah, I don't know her either.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
She's definitely my out.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah. But is that your hall past? Oh yes, who's
your hall past?
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Oh well, I don't have like, okay, begneficance, So they're
all my halls in case you.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Were married out one hundred.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Ye, this is gonna be really weird.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
But there's several and I'll make all my miss football
because that's what people know. I think Mario Lopez is
so cute.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
See you're getting his type.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
I love the Dwayne the Rock Johnson. See very bulky
who else. That's kind of the vibe the new zac Ephron.
Now he's like a daddy, so we're.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Getting his type right here. Daddy.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
I feel like we're all must we give up daddy energy. Yeah,
we are the three lesbian Daddies.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
I went to you want to hear something really painful?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Please?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I was out at my place in the country and
I went to see a friend who was in a
show at the Bucks County Playhouse, and then we went
to this bar, which was like I was like, it'll
be popping, and I'm always a person. All the other
guys like, can we let's go home and rub our
bunions and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
No, we're going out.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
I'm single and there's.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Like literally like eleven people and like I just have
like fourteen chardinays.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
I'm like, I think Larry is hot.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
The only guy dancing with his shirt off in like
the club which looks maybe like a double white mobile home.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Because this is in your Yeah, and the guy with
the hot with the hot.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Fish country just think about that.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yes, comes up to the bar for a water and
I go ooh, are you hot? Or you know, are
you hot? Because he has no shirt on. And he
looks at me and he goes, oh my god, it's you.
But here are the words that kill. He said, I
just thought you were some creepy old dude, and I
was like, how dare you?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
But I dare?
Speaker 4 (43:40):
But anyway, what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Later he never forgets, I will say that in seventy
eight gay in gay men, gay men are so much
cooler than us. I'm going to be really honest right now.
I just I feel that you you guys have no
shame when it comes around on like sex and warehouse
(44:02):
parties and raves, we don't have that. We don't have
that you us. No, Like I hear about them.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Well, they're exhausting.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
So what I hear there's these crazy sex parties and
all of these we have nothing.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
I don't know about those, but I do know about
like the big dance parties. Yes, we're like you're dancing
for like literally fourteen hours. I get home and it
feels like the bone, my heel bone is coming out
of the bottom of my foot. It's called foundering and
horse speak. But like I'm just like, oh my god,
I can't move.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's a lot of work that used to be mayon
heels heels. Now my Bunyon is like, what are you doing? No, no, no,
we don't get in heels.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Like we're so boring. We just like whind shine, like we.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Don't have I went to my wife, I'm sure we're
not going to rave.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
I went to my first rave last pride.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Okay, and it was like, so call them raves.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I don't know what it was, Molly potties.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
I think it was like a circuit event.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
It was in Brooklyn. It was shining at the yes
and I was it was me and Kesha was performing.
I think that was the only two women at the home.
And all these men.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Shirt every nobody has a shirt off.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
No one has clothes on period, right, and I just
see all over the place. I got so educated about
popper and I couldn't help myself.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
I don't want to do those. When I'm upright, you know,
I get a little light headed.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
The life is just fun. We don't have any like
we're just boring. We're like, let's go to the liberty.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
We just get a well, it's just like we had
fun last night.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I did.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
It's all a little fair, so let's look on the
bright side.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
We had it's just like we had. They took that.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah, that's terrible. Let's start a new one called Rene Steps.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Let's start on in Indian. Well better, guys, who wants
to sponsor us? We want a new little slash Dinamen's Festival.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Can you help anything? Let's see it's not fun. So
with Pride coming up, we're right around the corner and
we clearly know the political landscape right now. Guys, I'll
be really honest, I'm worried for these young kids, me too,
and I.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Especially the trans community.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, absolutely completely being targeted. Like when we talk about
community and how lucky are we to have each other
and support each other, What like thoughtful things are we
doing collectively for this Pride to help this new generation
that is being so heavily targeted.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Right Well, I know there's been a lot in the
press about companies that have like retracted their sponsorship from Pride,
and I did target article, yeah, and I was just like,
please let us know, like who is no longer supporting
because we should Well.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
I've been into a target since yes.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Literally, and also let us know who is supporting because
that goes both ways, like support the ones that are
are diehards and I think the target thing why that
is so hurtful is because it seemed like they were.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
Such an hour. Yeah they were, and that felt like
a weird like beaten switch was just what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Like how they wept to me.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I don't understand how someone thinks that that's going to
like I was, I am gay, guy, I am so gay,
and yet it took me till twenty five. I was
surrounded by sports athletes. I saw the gay on TV.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
I saw.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
I wasn't like, oh yeah, I definitely need to be
like to think that a kid is going like these
are the comments from parents. My kid doesn't need to
see a rainbow this, My kid doesn't need to see
two women that my kid like your kid, what do
you what? That's not going to turn your kid gay.
It's just not going to do that. I mean, we
would argue and say that, look, would we have preferred
(47:51):
to have grown up in a world where we were
straight because it would have made our lives easier? For sure?
Do we regret ever coming out?
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Feel like I wish I wasn't gay? Absolutely not. I'm
so happy with who I am all the things, But
to actually think that seeing something of whether it be
two men or two women, or two women kissing or
two men kissing, or a photo or a Pride flag,
is going to change your child is fucking ridiculous. It's
not going to happen. So that's what bothers me the
(48:23):
most is that that you have these absolute bigger Karens
that go in and say, my kid doesn't need to
see that, and it's like, well, your kid doesn't even
know what that means at this point. But I'll tell
you what, if your kid is gay, wouldn't that be
nice for them to feel okay, just like you talked
about as a kid. So yeah, it bothers me. I
don't know if you could feel that for me.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
And the other thing I would say as we enter
the Pride month too, is that we have to remember
we are a community and GLBTQ all of us are
in this together, and I think looking out for each
other is really really important because there are certain parts
of our community that are more vulnerable, and I think
(49:03):
everybody can do that for Pride, Like that's my mantra
for Pride is like look out for somebody else, to
look out for young people, just be there because we
have had to roll up our sleeves before and take
care of ourselves, and we can do it again. We've
actually faced as dire as it seems right now, and
(49:23):
I know it is, and I'm not minimalizing how awful
it is. We've been through terrible things before and we've
rallied as a community and we all came together, you know,
during the AIDS epidemic, it was like, you know, the
lesbians were taking care of the dying gay men. So
we have a history of unity and we need to
(49:45):
remember that and keep that moving forward in the future.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
And it's so important too for the three of us
who actually have platforms to make people feel safe, because
I feel that at this point they are really trying
to silence us, make us live in fear. And there's
not much content and visibility out there right now because companies,
with what's going on, they are scared, and it is
(50:11):
so much it is important for us to carry that
and leverage the platforms that we do to make our
community feel safe and accept it and have them lean
in on people like yourselves who make our community feel
seen like we let them and allow them.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
But it's marginalized Grece in total in total, and I
think that you're saying we are community. I thought, are
you talking about our community, gay community or community period? Yes,
And I think that that's what's important is marginalized groups,
and we're seeing it. Whether you be Jewish, whether you
be you know, Muslim, whether you be an immigrant, whatever
(50:50):
it is, we as a community should be caring about
us as a community, meaning everybody as a human being.
So the people that attack you from not even knowing
someone who's gay, or think that you're going to change
somebody because you know you're an immigrant, like we, you know,
the gay community, the queer community, need to talk up
for immigrants as well. It's the same thing. So I
(51:11):
just think every marginalized group is under attack right now
and we need to stand firm in our beliefs. Especially
you know, I'm an American citizen now and now I
get people writing to me on social media. I'll go
back to Australia, you know. You know, I'm like, I've
lived here twenty eight years, I have an American passport,
I vote in this country, and I pay taxes here.
So don't tell me to go back to Australia. I
will one day. Because our medical our healthcare system is
(51:35):
much better. Well, yeah, I mean, now, don't take care
of me when I am old.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, so much.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
We have our gay community down there.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
We better get married too. Sweet.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I will say we are the most resilient community. I
really feel that, like, and you're right, we have been
through this before and we have to continue to roll
our sleeves up. And because we're not going anywhere, that's
the thing, and we're he's not going anywhere anywhere.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
I start actually, classes of savvly blanc. I'm not leaving
this so fun, stay right here. But all jokes aside
is you know, we are an amazing country, and we're
a kind country, and we have amazing people here and
we just we need to get back on track.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah. Well, the last question I'm going to ask you
both before we wrap up. I ask this to every
person on the show.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
What is the capital of Namibia?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Not that because I wind you would.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
No, I don't even know if that'side, it's the city
just might capital.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Well that's pretty good, that is anyway, carry on all right, Well,
the show is called Wide Open, and I'm curious as
you both live such rich, beautiful lives, Like what is
a moment personally or professionally that really has split you
wide open, that has like really changed the landscape and
(52:52):
everything about who you are in your life. Like, what
was that one moment you could share with the viewers
and audience go first.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
I will say, I think, uh, well, one great example
is when we started doing Queer Eye, And like I said,
that was twenty two years ago. I was not completely
out to like everybody in the world and all my
like circle of friends and horse show friends and family.
And when that show, like you had to come out
(53:24):
like I was gonna be on the cover of TV GUIDs.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
They were like duh uh yeah, they were like duh.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
But I think that was so liberating to just to
come out in that way, in such a big way,
which I'm just.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Like, hello world, yuess what.
Speaker 2 (53:42):
No shit, But it.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Was incredibly liberating to just finally have that, you know,
that weight off your shoulder and just be like, oh,
I don't give an f anymore.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
I can just exactly be exactly.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Who I am. And the fact that we were celebrated
for it. And I always tell the story like I
would go to my hometown and I'd be walking around
the Lehigh Valley mall and they'd be like, you know,
there's that queer guy. And then like after the show
it had reset even like reclaimed that word.
Speaker 4 (54:07):
They're like, oh my god, are you that queer guy?
Speaker 1 (54:10):
And I was like that.
Speaker 4 (54:11):
Okay, So that was a very defining era.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yes, well that gives you the platform also just to
finally live your truth and what a beautiful.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
And that's the most powerful.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Nay, nay, what about me?
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I think, I mean keeping on that Jean like like
that sort of perspective. I think when I did tell
my best friend, we were very drunk. It was getting
towards news Eve and I grabbed her and I just
started seeing Lisa for like seven months at that point,
and I think I pulled her into the kitchen and
I thought you were going to say something then, because
(54:50):
now usually you would if I was at dinner, you'd
be like, and you kissed her.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
I was not.
Speaker 4 (54:54):
I pulled her respectful.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
We went in the kitchen and I said, I got
to tell you something. And I started a little emotional
and I said I'm in a relations I'm seeing someone.
And she goes and she literally looked me dead in
now and she goes, is it shorty? And Lisa was
shorter yeah in me like five five, and I'm like yes,
and she goes, oh, I've no shit, I've known hello.
(55:18):
And I'll never forget that moment because it just made
me feel like my best friend loved me no matter why.
And we went back out and started partying and drinking
again and having good time and it was like nothing
changed for me at all with her. And subsequently, like
another funny story about that, which was a moment that
also made me realize that the youth of today are
(55:39):
the ones that are going to save us. My godchild,
who was at the time, probably nine, and we were
doing marriage equality in Australia. She came home from school
and said, mom, if I was voting, I would vote yes.
And she said really why She goes, well, her best
friend had two moms, or she knew of two moms,
and she said they should be allowed to get married.
And Tracy looked at her and said, well, you know,
(56:00):
you know gay people too, and she said what really,
and she goes yes, Renee and my partner at the time,
and she goes, oh, I just thought they were lesbians,
and I was like dead. So this subject heading was
from the mouths of babes and she told me that
whole story, and I told that story at the stonewall
for my speech, and the whole place died because I
(56:23):
was like, I so for her being a lesbian was like, oh,
big deal, right, right, And so she was like, didn't
even it didn't even cross her mind that that was
an issue, and she was like nine. So I'm like, oh,
the kids of tomorrow are going to be the ones
that are going to put their foot down to say
this is not right.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
That yeah, yeah, let's hope.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
Well, let's blackppy pride everyone.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Happy pride community as our YAP.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
I can't let you both leave without saying this, because
this whole segment is definitely about our queerness and how
we show up and community and grace and all of
the beautiful things that exist in our community. But I
will say this, may we all find community like this
because truthfully, in the hardest season of my life, you
opened your doors and your heart to me, and you
(57:13):
don't realize the impact it made on me to feel
strong and confident enough to walk through it.
Speaker 5 (57:20):
So thank you, oh thank you, Oh comebye happy.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
You're two of my favorite people. So really it was
a pleasure to thanks.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
For another week of tuning in too. Wide Open with
Ashland Harris, Carson and Renee come back every.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Week, please anytime.
Speaker 4 (57:36):
Thank you, Heres sheers.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Carson slugged his two.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Minutes a damn, It's so delicious.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronoff, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(58:11):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris
Hello everyone, and welcome to another week of Wide Open
with Ashly and Harris. I'm so excited for these two
guests today, my friends, my homies, my mate, my queer
fucking icon. I know, I feel so embarrassed what I'm wearing.
You look amazing, the very gorgeous Carson Kresley.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
That's me.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Everybody, Hello, I'm wide open right now.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Well your legs are actually clothes.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Well, yes, but we'll get there.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
We're just gonna feed you a little more wine. And
Renee Stubbs, my favorite mate of all time. I don't
know how we became such fast friends, but thank god.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Plame a polo game your me.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I know, for those of you who do not know,
these two the original queer Eye.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
The Og the og baby, which now stands for me
kay and Rue.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Paul's Drag Race, my favorite, thank you iconic, thank you
Emmy Award winning all the things, Yeah, serving all the
greatest queer content possible out there. But most importantly, it's
such a beautiful thing that the show RuPaul's Drag Race
has gone so global because it gives it gives so
(01:27):
many young kids a place to kind of feel like
they belong. Yeah, totally and I love that so much
about what you do. And it's been how many seasons now.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
We are on season seventeen and right now streaming on
Paramount Plus is our season ten All Stars Tournament of Champions.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And look at him, he has an aged a day.
It's today.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I will give my compliments, your compliments to my surgeon.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hey, yeah, I'm like almost there. I'm like, do I
need I'm about to be forty this year.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
We're at a time like a child still.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Thanks, honey and Renee, we have talked about that too.
Let me introduce you my show Grand Slam Champion, most
Iconic ranked number one Doubles.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'd love when Soka plays talk about tennis.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Why because you are You are a legend paving the
way and you just don't stop your commentating. You have
your tennis podcast, you're a queer activists like you do
all the things.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
It's great, and she does them so beautifully.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
She really does.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
She's doing it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Thanks. Although we not, Ashlea and I will like we
feel so unaddressed because look at you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You look so good.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Look at you?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Do you not?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Did you just wake up? Do you go to bed
in a suit?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
No, I I had a horse show last night, and
then I drove last night and.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
You're just like, oh, Philadelphia to New York. That's not far.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, it is when the Lincoln Tunnel is closed for
repairs at midnight.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
To her, I have to run to me. It's an We'll.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Literally be in the city, city and having the best time,
and then she's like, I gotta go, I gotta go,
I gotta go. I got the tunnel is going to close.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
They really need to fix it.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And sometimes they'll just close the tunnel out of the
blue and you'll drive all the way down to the
hovel in Tunnel and I'm like, this one's closed as well.
I'm like, how does one am I supposed to? You
gotta Stan Island?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
No, I gotta get on a ferryes went I just
they don't even run that late, No, don't.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You've got to experience this.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, city that never sleeps definitely sleeps.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
The tunnels sleep absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So should we explain our first little gathering? Go ahead, go.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Ahead, right, Well, people are going to really understand how
beautiful this human is.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
To my right, oh my gosh, and like why okay
with my left?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay, So you're gonna have to help me because you're
so animated.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And I's gonna sit the stage for the listeners at home.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
If you don't know this, Cowson's dream is to actually
just speak Australian.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
On a regulars late like a right out yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You talked about this last night at the Liberty. You
just have to substitute every e r.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
With an a an a with an ear so instead
of never never never. Yeah. If you do that, you're good.
So basically Australians have completely botched the English language, Like
we don't care about pronunciations at all. We just everything
just drops off at the end.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
You know what guys do so well? You make everything
cute with like a little i e. Like oh did
you bring your sonnies? Oh do you have your swimmies?
Like you could just make something like terrible wrecky cute
with just adding an ie.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I mean it has to enhance your dating life. I mean,
I know you're in a relationship, but like if I
had that accent walking in these street chilling.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right the thing you're doing just fine?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yes, thank you think you're doing just fine.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
All right, So I'll set the stage a little bit.
So you were going through your end of your previous
marriage and in a not a good place. You were
not in a good place. And every year, this beautiful
human being to my right always has me come down
or I just go. He really has no option for Thanksgiving.
(05:09):
I always go to Carstons for Thanksgiving. I even went
to your place for Christmas one year when I was
working here over Christmas and so I was, you know,
after Carson's and I called you the day before and
I was like, hey, dude, what are you doing for Thanksgiving?
And You're like nothing. I don't have the kids, so
you know, I'm essentially alone. I was like, fuck that,
You're not alone. You're coming with me. I hadn't even
(05:30):
asked Carson. I just said, you're coming with me.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Any friend of Rene's is a friend of mine.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
He's like, bring all the lazzie.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
And I said, Carson, do you mind if I bring
a friend with me? And He's like, no, absolutely not, darling. Sure,
And sure enough you slept in Carson's bed and.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
We had the most moral was I there?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
You were there. You're the first not the first night, kay.
You were so sweet and so gracious.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Well, it's normally I do like a friends giving friendsgiving,
So my friend Victoria, who says the Southern Belt. It's
basically like a summer house, like casting for Bravo. Victoria
the Southern Bell. And usually my friend Christine.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Who's in Amish Country by the way.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
The DC political person. And then my two best gays known.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Forever, Darcy and Carlos, and yeah, best cooks. Usually.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
The best thing about our relationship when I'm there is
that the boys do the girls things and I do
the boys things.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I just made the fire.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I make fire.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
How was it right?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
That's pretty much like chopped wood. I remember the time
I chopped wood and it was hollow. It was like
a rotten piece of what. I was like, I'm going
to chop this wood, and then I did. It was
like air and the axe went like almost like.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
If you if you really want to see it. It's
actually on my Instagram page at some point down whenever
it was during the it was doing cod the pandy
like to it during the pandy.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I you can make anything awful sound better by making
a pandemic a pandy.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You showed me some pictures of all the guys. The
bodies were bodying and wait in my house. Yes, everyone
was ripped.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And everyone but me, come on, not true enough. You
know I'm ripped enough, old gal, thank you.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And for someone who puts absolutely no effort in zero
really blessed action must be nice.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
We get up in the morning at his house and
it was.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Like we created our pod.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
We did. We had one of gas and that situation
with the axe. We bought it at a because he
likes to antique. I love love and yeah, and so
we went and got this nineteen twelve ax that couldn't
chop well clean anything.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
But he was like, I just wanted to have an
axe so I could say.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Dinner, bring me the axe, which he did. It's on
my web page going yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
All the time, but you can't say it if you
don't really have an axe.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
When I got to the house, because I when I
told you I wasn't you know, doing anything for Thanksgiving,
she was like, oh my gosh, we have to do
the best gay friends giving you're ever going to experience
in your life. And I was like, okay, so we
like get in the car. I had no idea what
I was walking.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Into literally right like I know, no one knows.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And you were so kind and gracious. You were like
everyone was like, no, you're sleeping in Carson's room. So
I had your like beautiful suite with these beautiful pillow
cases from the mess like it was so.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
It's like climbing Kilimanjaro. Yeah, into his bed.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I got those pillows from this woman who was in
a car accident in Hungary and these nuns had these pillows.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
No, it's a great story.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Her name is Pandora to Balfazar, I think it's made up.
And she was like an heiress or something and she
was like living with her count husband in Hungry and
she got into a terrible accident and she had to
be in the hospital for like a year, and the
nuns at the hospital propped her up with these giant
Hungarian goostown pillows and she credits them with like basically
saving her life. I was like, I need these pillows.
(09:02):
Thank you for the sales pitch, and now I too,
sleep on the Hungarian down pillows. It's authorized by nuns
and it's like sleeping on a cloud.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
It really on a second, you've never told me that story,
and I have also slept in that bit. Yeah, it
would be funny the story if we had all three.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Slept in that we should next time he tried to
sleep with me time there's so much room, and.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I thing will happen. I can assure all.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The one thing that I know and guarantee is that
the one time in my life I was sleep with
a man and I'd be fine.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
But I do I do think like it was so
lovely to be introduced to horses by both of you,
because you both do have such a rich history. Yes,
tell me, I want to know why you both have
been so captivated and like I've read a lot about
your past and being raised by would you have like
(09:56):
a bunch of ponies when you were young?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
I grew up on a pony five bony farm. It
is like literal after school special waiting to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And you should have made miss I know and I
world champion too, yep, which you don't talk about a
couple of times.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Well it's such a weird like little world, But I
think this situation is the same for both me and Renee.
We grew up in like a kind of a horse
centric family and they've always been around. And I grew
up on a pony farm and my grandparents had like
two hundred ponies and they were literally outside my bedroom
window and I would just jump on That's heaven. It's
(10:33):
a great way to grow up. I was so blessed
and I would literally this is where it turns into
the after school Special. Like when you're like the little
gig kid and you're like ten years old, You're like,
something is just not right here. I just feel like weird.
I would go out into the barnyard and we had
big giant troughs that were made out of like a
(10:55):
rusty metal, but the horses and the ponies had licked
them so much. They were like smooth and soft, and
I would lay like in the hay with them and
they were my friends. C the After School Special promo
right now starring Tina You others as a young Carson Kresla,
so that was my background. So they are just, you know,
(11:17):
very therapeutic. They are probably the animal I'm an animal lover,
but I would say that horses are probably the most
like calming influence. They're very zen, They're extremely sensitive, so
they're the most honest animal out there. You cannot lie
to a horse. You can't be like, oh I'm having
a great day. Like.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
They will feel every emotion do you.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Feel because you are. I think when I think of
like a horse, there's so much beauty and grace and
just the way it moves.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's like it's so powerful, but yet, like cousin said,
they are so sensitive. Like you'll see, there's plenty of
video on I mean, I send you Instagram videos all
the time because you know, since she went to you,
I'm upset she's once horses.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
I'm a cowgirl come one weekend.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
My niece is a very good horse trainer for Western horses,
and that's all she does.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I watched your stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I watched her the whole time I was at your house.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I can just you know, can run barrels its.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I don't do it because I literally one time we
were filming an episode of Queer Eye and it was
in Texas, and like Carson knows how to ride. And
that's when you will always make an ass of yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
When you're like that. He's literally a world champion saddle
bread settle bread uh huh.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Ride my horse is when you want them to slow down,
you gear them with your voice and you just kind
of say WHOA like you just rate them. They're very responsive,
at least minor to voice commands. But this western horse
I was riding thought I was saying whoa, And all
I did was say the W part of whoa, and
it stopped dead. I somersaulted off. I landed on my
(12:50):
two feet. I was holding the reins and everybody was like,
you are really good, and I was just like, that
was not supposed to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Stay tuned, We'll be right back after this. I think
the beautiful thing of the whole story, to circle it back, is,
you know, Pride's coming up, and community is so important
(13:18):
and now more than ever. And what I'm so grateful
for is the community. Like you guys barely knew me,
and it invited me to eat at your home, but
it was so lovely and just like having the boys
there and it was just so therapeutic, and it like
(13:39):
I remember waking up most morning sobbing, like am I
gonna be okay? And you guys would just like, let's
go for a walk, let's go to the horses, And
I don't know, it's that it's so heartfelt and so
kind and not everyone gets places like that to land
in the hardest season of their life. So I'm so
(13:59):
grateful for both of you for doing that and opening
your home up for me to cry, to laugh, to
feel a part of something much bigger than my situation.
I think it's really endearing and it's very kind.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, I think with our community, the queer community, I
really do think that we do grow up a little
bit like a little we feel a little different, so
we don't really feel like the normal society when we're kids,
Like you know, all of us. I mean, when I
finally realized I was gay, I was like, oh, oh oh,
all of that makes sense now, all the feelings I had,
(14:34):
all the moments where I didn't connect with the guy
or I didn't have a long term relationship. I was like,
I tried, but I didn't even know why.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I watched Personal Best fifteen times. It's all making sense now.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But you know, we grew up like that. But also
our friends become such an important community to us, like like,
I know Casson will always be there for the rest
of my life. You know, it's like we build that.
It's sort of like he's like the another brother that
I've got two brothers. I feel like, cousin, say, you
do get that way with your queer community, is that
they become your family. Especially for me. I I'm not
near my family, so I have relied on my friends
(15:13):
my whole life to get through my life in a
lot of ways. And so when you gravitate to friends,
you just hold them so ideally because I become so
important to you.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
How was that for both of you when you were younger,
finding like real like community and I like your identity
in a time like both of you are pretty pretty
similar in age, and I'm a lot I'm not a
lot younger, but I'm younger. But it was a different times.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
It was a very different time, and my coming of age,
you know, was like there were so many layers of
like the number one feeling that comes to mind is fear.
And I know that sounds like sad and whatever, but
it's not because it all worked out great. But you know,
it was the eighties and being I didn't even know
what gay was, you know, I would watch like PBS
(16:00):
specials about somebody who was like born in the wrong
body or something. I was like, maybe that's me. Or
I'm always always trying to find answers. And then the
AIDS epidemic was happening, and I would go to the
grocery store and I'm like twelve years old and with
my mom and like Rock Hudson is on the cover
of the National Acquirer and it says like gay cancer
and all these things. I'm just like, oh my god,
(16:21):
I think that's me. I'm probably going to get that.
Well wow, I'm just probably going to die. And then
I remember like going to like I know, I know,
I know, you.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Know, really really young.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, I mean literally when I was like four or
five years old, I didn't know what it was. But
I was like first grade. You know, people are like
seven or eight years old. And TV was such a
big part of like life back then. It was just
regular old TV, like three channels.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
We had to change it with hands every Okay, don't
outdate yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
I had to.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I had to have yet telling.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
It was so fun religion at all in actual hand.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
But everyone would come into school and be like, oh
my god, don't you love the six million dollar man
Lee Majors?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And I was like, yes, I do, actually so did I.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So he was so hot, so I knew that.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Like I was always you know, gravitated towards you know,
the masculine.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Like, yeah, it's really right.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Let's talk about Richard hatch On on Battlestar Galactica, Like,
but I didn't know what that was.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And then you know, I see I was in love
with wonder woman where I didn't realize it. Yes, I
was like, why is she so great and hot? You
know I live in Newton John.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
I was like, oh, I was in love with Olivia
Newton John for other reasons. She was just so glamorous
and pretty. But you really you're struggling to find out,
like where is my place?
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Who am I?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
What's wrong with me? And literally like going to sleep
at night praying like please make me normal. So that's
like a big part of it. So I didn't really
have I was never surrounded by like friends or anybody
I could talk to. And I think the thing about
growing up as a queer kid that is different from
so many other differences. If you get picked on at
(18:12):
school for being you know, a fag or a pussy
or whatever they're gonna.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Call you, you, you can't go home and tell your parents
because that's going to out you.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
But if you're like the tallest kid in your class,
you're like the only Asian girl in your class.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Saying something towards you that you can say you go
to your family who are probably like you, and you say, God,
I can't believe this happened today, and they would say,
it's all right, you know, we're this.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
You're gonna be fine.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We're tall family. You'll be fine, and you'll appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
We're gonna love it one day. That's the thing that
queer kids don't have.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That's so true.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And I think that's the thing that's.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Powerful about I'm very proud of having been on Queer
Eye for the Straight Eye twenty years ago and now
RuPaul's drag Race, and you alluded to it in the
opening of this show, is that that visibility shows kids
from Because of streaming, kids can watch drag Race from
Malaysia till Milwaukee and say, oh my god, that person's
(19:10):
like me. Oh I'm not the only one. Oh there's
a place for me. Wait, I can be celebrated. That
is so powerful And we always talk about visibility, whether
it's on podcasts or on TV or in athletics and sports.
It's so important because you never know what young person
(19:30):
is out there seeing you and saying I'm gonna be okay.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
So anyway, I mean me in sports.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I was like, okay, it was fine because I was
surrounded by.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Sydney like what was it?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, I mean, but honestly Ashland like as I said, like,
I didn't really know. I was like that, I just was.
I was a tomboy, right, and tomboy was It's a
normal terminology. She's sporty, she's a tomboy, that's it. But
what we didn't realize is that, oh, that's also that
is usually oh, you might be a lesbian, but there's
(20:02):
also a lot of straight women that we know that
play sports that were tomboys as well. But for me,
I was a tomboy. But I look back on photos
of myself as a five year old. I mean, you
have to showed you some of the with the cowboy
hat and stuff. I was like, hello, you know my
best friend said to me when I came out to her, finally,
she was the first person I said the words to.
She goes and she called me and you know both
know this story. I think. But I have a lot
(20:24):
of nicknames, stubbsy. My family called me Wren short for Renee,
and my best friend said, You're so not a Wren.
You're such a Ron. And that was like when I
was like thirteen. So she goes, you're such a Ron,
you know, because I was such a tomboy, and she
probably didn't even realize for sure at the time what
that meant as well. She was just like, that's going
(20:45):
to be your nickname from me. And her nickname was
Face because her name is Tracy, and she was, oh,
she's so beautiful that her boyfriend called her face.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I don't love Ron for you.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
You don't. It's a little bit you're not. It's not
such a enough. It's a term of endearment from her.
Like I'll call her now and we were in our
fifties and I'll call it and she'll just pick the
phone and hey, Ron, what's up. I go, hey, Face,
what's going on? Like that's my name for her. Even
her kids call me Ron. One of her kids is
one of my god children, and they call me Ron,
you know.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
But it's just the Nane to everyone.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, I'm nine to a lot of my friends that
have kids, because the kids can't say Renee. It's really
hard to say, so they go, nay, kids call me Nina.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Really you call me, I call you Rene? No E,
Nna I e Rene.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, when we talk about being in the public eye
now and you know, twenty I can't believe it's been
twenty years from New Over twenty years.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah, thank god.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
It came out in two thousand and three, so it's
twenty two years. Wow, and I don't remember most of it. Wait,
what year two thousand and three? Okay, that's when the
show came out. I came out, you know when you
would put it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I moved to New York Ballsy for the network that
early on Yes, to say, here are these five men
that we want to take. Have them take up space
and be exactly who they are coming off the back
end of all of the Matthew Shepherd, the aids, upid
like all of these that is fal network.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Kudos to Bravo, Yes, because took the show to many
networks who are like, uh no. And then there actually
was because the show was called Queer Eye for the
Straight Guy. Even the name, like some networks were like, oh,
that's a bit strong.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I believe, and I'm not.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It's not privy to all these network conversations, but I
think there was even some pushback about the name after
we were greenlit. And credit goes to the guys who
created the show, David Collins, Scout Productions out in la
He was very adamant, like, no, queer means extraordinary, it
means looking at something from through a different lens. It's
(22:58):
very apropos to the show and it needs to stay
that way. And again, kudos to Bravo because they got
it and they put it on that work and it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Was made Bravo in a lot of ways as well,
because it gave them such an incredible visibility in such
a different way, and they were so and as you said,
a huge credit.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
It's a big especially because it really was the first time.
It wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't about like death and just heartache.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
And it also wasn't There were wonderful shows like Will
and Grace that are press you know, came before us,
which we love, and Queer as Folk was in that
same era.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Which we love, the L word with the L word,
which we loved, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
The same era, but those were all scripted, and so
I think our show was one of the few where
it was just us being like our authentic selves, being
completely honest of like who we were, and just going
out there and hopefully doing good work, like being great
at styling somebody or being great at designing someone's home.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
And I would meet people.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Out and who knows where, you know, if I went
to a horse show or if I was traveling or
doing an appearance. So I never met a gay person before.
And I was like, have you never been on an airplane?
Have you never gotten the highlights? Of course you have.
But the power of television is that you're in their
living rooms, you're in their bedrooms, They're talking about you,
they're kind of interacting with you. And on this you
(24:30):
know eat as we are entering Pride Month. Also, the
power of being out is geometric and exponential, and you
don't know what kind of effect it will have because
when someone knows you as a person, as a queer person,
they say, well, I like this person, I like Renee.
Why shouldn't she be able to get married or adopt
(24:51):
kids or have the exact same rights that I do.
So it personalizes and it humanizes and it build allyship.
When you're out, you don't have to be on TV.
It's just being, you know, an out member of your community.
When people know you, it's harder for them to hate you.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yes, I love that. And it was like such a
beautiful moment for the queer community to have an unscripted
show that really showed how two different types of people
from two different types of worlds could really coexist, which
(25:34):
gave permission to a lot of people. And I think
that the whole premise of the show, when you talk
about coming into people's living rooms like that was the
important piece to it of connection. And we're not really
that different when you put us in the same room.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
And we were rooting for the straight guy, Yeah, we
want you to do well.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And he ended up loving the experience with.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
You all, which we had no idea.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, and you know, there's some people can be a
little touchy feely with things like that, and I think
that when a big burly man who's kind of like
a little bit of a disaster with his outfits and
his clothing and wanting to you, I'm not looking at you, teling,
but like to actually have men fix and help him
(26:23):
be better in every aspect. At the end, they go, oh,
and by the way, they didn't hit on me. They
weren't gross to me.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Why would I have hit on.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
A very hot There was a very hot figure skater,
and I was like, trying to do the math.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
I was like, straight fit.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What but I'm going to go find that episode?
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, oh my god, he was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Okay, so you just ruined my whole point of telling
that story.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I took them to what what do you think has
changed the most for you both now that you are
in the spotlight and now that you know fame is
a weird word and it's like kind of icky sometimes,
But the fact does you both have a very, very
large platform, and it's visibility, as we've already mentioned, is
so major in our community, especially now more than ever.
(27:10):
I however, I don't think people understand what comes with
the spotlight. And I'm curious, do you feel compelled. Do
you feel it's like a mission and a duty now
that you both are in the spotlight to continue advocating
more for the queer community or do you just show
up and you're like this me, you either are with
(27:32):
it or you're not, Like what's your thought process of that?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I'm a balance. I'm on a board called lpactmail Pack,
and it's a lesbian political action committee. So our role
is to literally try and get illicit money from people
to support queer candidates. So that's where I feel. Politically,
I go and I put my efforts into that. So
if you want to donate, go to tmailpack dot com.
But also I'm, as you both know, I'm a very
(27:58):
authentic human being and I don't like to be in
a room or be talking on X or on the
socials or even on my own podcast without being truly
authentic to who I want to be and speaking up
for what I believe in. Sometimes it gets me into
a bit of trouble. But at the same time, I'm like,
I can't let go of this stuff. I'm I'm in
aries and I'm going to go forward, and I want
(28:20):
to be authentic, but I want to fight battles that
I feel, whether it's a quality for women, a quality
for our queer community, whatever it is, I'm going to
say it. I have to tone it down sometimes just
because I can be a little, a little on the edge.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Sometimes companies I don't believe that, But that's the thing for.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Me do my work politically and also be authentic and
talk about the things that I want to talk about
that my community should be hearing and knowing about.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I think it's just about we do have literally a
microphone in front of us.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah, And it's about.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Really educating people, I think, And that's I feel like
that's what I've always done. Like whether it's about or
style or interior design, it's like I.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Want to or the queer community.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I want to explain to people and educate because that
is the best way to get them on board and
change their minds and be empathetic. I think it's such
a divisive time right now. It's like us versus them,
and it's just like, listen, we're all people. We're all
going to be dead in like X number of years.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I know.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
My best friends said, make a difference and just be authentic.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
And help one another. You know, we're all in this this.
We all live in this same weird world.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And everybody has the same concerns. I mean, my best
friend literally said to me at some of this year,
I told you this, I think, well, we've only got
like twenty good summers left.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Right, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And I was like, I know, I And I was
like what I was like, but oh my god, we do.
It's true. So I'm like everything now, I make decisions,
I'm like it, I'm doing it like they only live once.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
We all care about, like, what is the direction that
Tom Ford is going to go in now that he's
no longer at the Helm, Like we all have these
same things.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
That Nicole kid a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
How great We're gonna digress, but how great does Nicole
Kidman look?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Oh yeah, Nick looking good?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Slightly different looking, but beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Now, you know after we had a beautiful time together
and then life in the public eye, like with my
dating life, it is so dick and wild, and I'm
curious for both of you how this platform of people
actually knowing who you are, how has it impacted your
(30:38):
dating life? You stop because it has flipped.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm boring. I'm boring. I've been the same person for
like sixty seventy years.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Come on you, I'll get back.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I'll get back to the partner.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
You know what who I never say, but that's probably
where you are going to go with that.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Oh gosh, my dating life.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I mean, this is what we to This is what
we talked about table Brazil the same language, but it
was marvelous.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Oh yeah, He'll be like, well, I look at this guy,
I'm saying, and he's Brazilian I'm like, oh my.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
What are the apps these days? Tell me your way? Yeah,
I need to know all of the things.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Well, I mean the gays have scruff.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You know what we're being wide open today? That is
what different type of wide open we're here.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Don't go there with that. I just know where your
brain is.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I just know this is a PG podcast site and
maybe that studious why. Also, like a lot of people
are on Riah, which is this like celebrity dating app.
And I signed up for Raya like when it was new,
and this is like ten years ago before the pandemic,
and it says like who are you and like I'm
(31:57):
a man, and then like what are you looking for
a man?
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I like, what are you into? Whatever?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And they verify you and you may have to approve
you that you're really like a celebrity, which is a
little weirdow. And but I somehow didn't save my settings correctly,
and I started getting all these really hot guys, like
there was getting like a kickboxer, an MMA fighter, one
(32:23):
of the somebody from like a very popular television.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Show was like, oh my god, I had no idea
you were gay.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I'm sending them all messages and then it turned out
my settings were wrong and I thought I was a
woman looking for a man. So I had message some
like people in Hollywood saying, that's so great that you're gay.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
I'll see you at an event or something.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
We should hang out a cricket. So of course, because
they were like, why is this dude like up in
my dms?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And then after about you straight? That was your strange
I've had your straight voice, and so.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, that didn't work out well because I had my
settings wrong. And then when I got to a man
wanting man, it was it was a lot of hairdressers,
which is fine, but I was like that's a little
too similar to me.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah, like we're both of these.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You're tight.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
My type.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
I'm a very opposite to attract person, Okay, And there's
a lot of gays where like you'll meet them like
this is Barry and this is very too and I'm
just like you look exactly like and like we met
it Barries, and like I can't I want something very different.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
We you know, we had a really easy as athletes,
like we had our pick of teams right that we
could run around with.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I think you're I think you're outing all of only
yourself right now, and you played a single sport with
single people playing.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Well well dating teammates.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I did, true, I did. I did in my double
spoton for sevent years.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Like tell me everything, like I can only am because
you know, I dated, I married my team. But there
was thirty five of us.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, yeah, you could blame somebody else.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, but tell them about how like you would like
have to like travel together and be everywhere, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
You'd be together or even give that.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
But you were sash around well at the beginning. Because
that was my first relationship. That's when I came out.
She outed me, which because I didn't realize that she'd
already kissed a woman, I don't even know where it went.
I didn't even want to know the details.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
But I like working together and very before we got.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Together, we were we played doubles together at a tournament
in Indian Wells, which is a big tournament, and we
played and we were getting so close and I just
wanted to be with her all the time.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Right, Dinahshour is still alive.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Dinoshaur was still live. And it was two weeks.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Later, okay, because I went to the.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Dinah Shour before I knew I was gay, which is
I missed out the big time.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
That's a sign.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, well, I actually just went and played the golf
program because that's also signed.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Oh my god, anyway, who's finishing each other's sentences kills me?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
So so we played together and then we made eight
Out together for the first time there and I was freaking, did.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You make the first movie?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
No? She did.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're in the front of an old remember the old
szmobile cars that we rented, and we're in the front
seat and it was like one young seat. Yeah, bench seat,
So we had a bench seat very hand.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
You don't have to go to the back seat.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
No, and you don't have to you don't even need
to lift up the handle anyway. So she yes, the armress,
thank you, and she came over and kissed me, and
I jumped out of the car and I was like,
that can never happen again. Oh my god, I'm not gay. Yes,
sweat to God and so okay, so cut to we
left the next day. I went back to Orlando, where
I lived at the time, and she went to Miami
(35:39):
next tournament, right, and then I was like, of course
we're texting, because we did have phones in and I
texted her.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I was like, what what floor are you on?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Because we were staying at the same hotel, but I
went home for two days because I went to Florida,
and so I was like, what room are you and
she's like eighteen o one. I was like, oh, okay,
I'll try and get a room on the eighteenth floor, right.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
And I did and I did, and then I hated it,
but I want Moura.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Exactly, so anyway, so you'll love this. So then we
had to play against each other. So now we're sleeping
together for like two weeks, and then we had to
play against each other.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Fully, don't skip over there, you just fully jump in.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, jumped in.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Realize, oh my god, you're competing.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Now now we're officially sleeping together in love blah blah blah.
We get to the next tournament. I'm playing with Lindsay
Davenport and Lisa Raymond, who was my girlfriend. Lisa Raymond
is playing with Gabriella Sabatini, which, as you know, Gabby
is so smoking heart, so it was I gave her
a pass because I'm like, I would play with Gabby
as well. So anyway, we're playing, we're staying together. Now
(36:42):
we're playing against each.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Other, and you're also like sneaking in through the hotel,
like not.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Not trying to look like we were staying together. No, no, no,
that was the first time when we stayed together. So
we're staying together and we're playing against each other, and
we're a settle and it starts raining and the light
goes down, So now we have to go back to
our hotel room together in the middle of the match.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Right and makes sweet sweet love and then go back.
We did that adversary, so we have won by that.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Point, and then we ended up using and that's when
I said to Lisa, Okay, we're really good players, right,
we cannot play against each other. Let's just play together.
Because we had talked about playing together but it didn't
sort of work out because of certain reasons. And then
she's like, yeah, this can't because we were always going
to have to play against each other and that would
have just been right good, Right, So we started playing
(37:34):
together and then that ended up being very good for us,
and we won a lot together. I think we want
three slams together. And we won thirty three to sixty.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
You've won over sixty.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I won sixty and I won thirty three of those
with Lisa.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
Right, the French Open, that's.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
The only one we didn't win. But Australian Wimbledon thing yep, yeah, babe,
it's wimble done.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Wimble done. That's not a tea. Yeah, everybody, it's okay.
I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Well forever, it will be like yeah, but with a
D it's like don yeah, like it rhymes with ron. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Why is she yelling at lesbians? Stereotypical lesbian?
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Sorry I brought up the French Open? Marriage?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
But how did you did? You just keep playing together?
Like how would a fight?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Oh? Well, there was one classic match in San Diego.
We were playing a final and I think we lost,
served to go down five to one, so it looked
like we were done right here and we're playing imagine
we're playing two great players and a corner cove and
Lindsay Davenport and I said something to her. She was
mad about it, and she told me to fuck off,
and then I.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Told her to fuck off and the girlfriend, yes, yes,
oh wow, Because we're it's in a final, it's big,
it's heated, it's very stressful with a big crowd, and
so we stopped talking to each other literally, and it
went from five to one to five to two to five, three, five,
four to five to six, five up, and then she
finally started talking.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
To me, and then I'm like, now you want to
talk to me. We've just won five straight games. And
then of course we lose my serve serving for the match,
and I go, don't fucking talk to me, and then
sure enough we won the tie break and then we're like.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Whoa, we won very bipolar.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
After you won that, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
We went out and had a party. Okay, we didn't
fight off the court. Even when we lost, it would
be a moment or two where it probably wouldn't be
happy for a couple hours. Especially met Lisa could let
it go like that like super easy.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
But that's like an athlete mentality because I'll say this
with my current partner now, like I'm so like to
be a great athlete, you have to have like really
short term memory.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah really, because like you have to be Yeah, you're no.
Sometimes your ass kicked like so hard.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
And it's so technical.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
If you remembered and held onto it, you wouldn't want
to try, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It's even with writing, you're like, oh, you.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Can't carry one mistake with you the entire map, the
entire game, or whatever you're doing. So I do feel
like I bring that into my relationship, like if we
get in a tiff, I repair very quickly. Liketure repair
for me is like, but it's probably because I was
an athlete who if I made a mistake, I couldn't
make ten more mistakes in the game because of that
(40:19):
one mistake. I was like, yeah, done.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
It's also personality though, like I'm a scorpio, so like
I literally take notes. I was like, on June third,
nineteen seventy one, you said that I looked puffy, and
then like I haven't, and then I can pull that
out of my records.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
I was like, well, I.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Don't think you remember what you said on June first,
nineteen seventy one, do you?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
So you will die?
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Hold on, oh big time.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
I have a whole Is there anything that I did
that is.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Sure? Only when I would tell you.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, okay, good, yeah, okays.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Are kind of like we had a thing like if
you weren't married by.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
A certain age, we would live together.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yet what is wait, what's the story? Because I do
remember this at dinner.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
We don't have partners.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
By the time we're in a hundred, it's not going
to get married and take care of each other.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Is that one hundred? That's how he feels about it.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Only have twenty more summers.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
We're not that old.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Oh that's right.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
God, this is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I just adore this guy so much. He's like, literally
my favorite person in the world name.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Truly so sweet and you bled herself.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Well, zach Efron's my favorite person, but I don't know him,
so you're.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
My Kate Blanchett is my favorite person too.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Oh yeah, Kate Blanchette. Yeah, I don't know her either.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
She's definitely my out.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah. But is that your hall past? Oh yes, who's
your hall past?
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Oh well, I don't have like, okay, begneficance, So they're
all my halls in case you.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Were married out one hundred.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Ye, this is gonna be really weird.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
But there's several and I'll make all my miss football
because that's what people know. I think Mario Lopez is
so cute.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
See you're getting his type.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
I love the Dwayne the Rock Johnson. See very bulky
who else. That's kind of the vibe the new zac Ephron.
Now he's like a daddy, so we're.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Getting his type right here. Daddy.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
I feel like we're all must we give up daddy energy. Yeah,
we are the three lesbian Daddies.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
I went to you want to hear something really painful?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Please?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I was out at my place in the country and
I went to see a friend who was in a
show at the Bucks County Playhouse, and then we went
to this bar, which was like I was like, it'll
be popping, and I'm always a person. All the other
guys like, can we let's go home and rub our
bunions and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
No, we're going out.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
I'm single and there's.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Like literally like eleven people and like I just have
like fourteen chardinays.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
I'm like, I think Larry is hot.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
The only guy dancing with his shirt off in like
the club which looks maybe like a double white mobile home.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Because this is in your Yeah, and the guy with
the hot with the hot.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Fish country just think about that.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yes, comes up to the bar for a water and
I go ooh, are you hot? Or you know, are
you hot? Because he has no shirt on. And he
looks at me and he goes, oh my god, it's you.
But here are the words that kill. He said, I
just thought you were some creepy old dude, and I
was like, how dare you?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
But I dare?
Speaker 4 (43:40):
But anyway, what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Later he never forgets, I will say that in seventy
eight gay in gay men, gay men are so much
cooler than us. I'm going to be really honest right now.
I just I feel that you you guys have no
shame when it comes around on like sex and warehouse
(44:02):
parties and raves, we don't have that. We don't have
that you us. No, Like I hear about them.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Well, they're exhausting.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
So what I hear there's these crazy sex parties and
all of these we have nothing.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
I don't know about those, but I do know about
like the big dance parties. Yes, we're like you're dancing
for like literally fourteen hours. I get home and it
feels like the bone, my heel bone is coming out
of the bottom of my foot. It's called foundering and
horse speak. But like I'm just like, oh my god,
I can't move.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's a lot of work that used to be mayon
heels heels. Now my Bunyon is like, what are you doing? No, no, no,
we don't get in heels.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Like we're so boring. We just like whind shine, like we.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Don't have I went to my wife, I'm sure we're
not going to rave.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
I went to my first rave last pride.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Okay, and it was like, so call them raves.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I don't know what it was, Molly potties.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
I think it was like a circuit event.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
It was in Brooklyn. It was shining at the yes
and I was it was me and Kesha was performing.
I think that was the only two women at the home.
And all these men.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Shirt every nobody has a shirt off.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
No one has clothes on period, right, and I just
see all over the place. I got so educated about
popper and I couldn't help myself.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
I don't want to do those. When I'm upright, you know,
I get a little light headed.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
The life is just fun. We don't have any like
we're just boring. We're like, let's go to the liberty.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
We just get a well, it's just like we had
fun last night.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I did.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
It's all a little fair, so let's look on the
bright side.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
We had it's just like we had. They took that.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah, that's terrible. Let's start a new one called Rene Steps.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Let's start on in Indian. Well better, guys, who wants
to sponsor us? We want a new little slash Dinamen's Festival.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Can you help anything? Let's see it's not fun. So
with Pride coming up, we're right around the corner and
we clearly know the political landscape right now. Guys, I'll
be really honest, I'm worried for these young kids, me too,
and I.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Especially the trans community.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, absolutely completely being targeted. Like when we talk about
community and how lucky are we to have each other
and support each other, What like thoughtful things are we
doing collectively for this Pride to help this new generation
that is being so heavily targeted.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Right Well, I know there's been a lot in the
press about companies that have like retracted their sponsorship from Pride,
and I did target article, yeah, and I was just like,
please let us know, like who is no longer supporting
because we should Well.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
I've been into a target since yes.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Literally, and also let us know who is supporting because
that goes both ways, like support the ones that are
are diehards and I think the target thing why that
is so hurtful is because it seemed like they were.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
Such an hour. Yeah they were, and that felt like
a weird like beaten switch was just what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Like how they wept to me.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I don't understand how someone thinks that that's going to
like I was, I am gay, guy, I am so gay,
and yet it took me till twenty five. I was
surrounded by sports athletes. I saw the gay on TV.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
I saw.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
I wasn't like, oh yeah, I definitely need to be
like to think that a kid is going like these
are the comments from parents. My kid doesn't need to
see a rainbow this, My kid doesn't need to see
two women that my kid like your kid, what do
you what? That's not going to turn your kid gay.
It's just not going to do that. I mean, we
would argue and say that, look, would we have preferred
(47:51):
to have grown up in a world where we were
straight because it would have made our lives easier? For sure?
Do we regret ever coming out?
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Feel like I wish I wasn't gay? Absolutely not. I'm
so happy with who I am all the things, But
to actually think that seeing something of whether it be
two men or two women, or two women kissing or
two men kissing, or a photo or a Pride flag,
is going to change your child is fucking ridiculous. It's
not going to happen. So that's what bothers me the
(48:23):
most is that that you have these absolute bigger Karens
that go in and say, my kid doesn't need to
see that, and it's like, well, your kid doesn't even
know what that means at this point. But I'll tell
you what, if your kid is gay, wouldn't that be
nice for them to feel okay, just like you talked
about as a kid. So yeah, it bothers me. I
don't know if you could feel that for me.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
And the other thing I would say as we enter
the Pride month too, is that we have to remember
we are a community and GLBTQ all of us are
in this together, and I think looking out for each
other is really really important because there are certain parts
of our community that are more vulnerable, and I think
(49:03):
everybody can do that for Pride, Like that's my mantra
for Pride is like look out for somebody else, to
look out for young people, just be there because we
have had to roll up our sleeves before and take
care of ourselves, and we can do it again. We've
actually faced as dire as it seems right now, and
(49:23):
I know it is, and I'm not minimalizing how awful
it is. We've been through terrible things before and we've
rallied as a community and we all came together, you know,
during the AIDS epidemic, it was like, you know, the
lesbians were taking care of the dying gay men. So
we have a history of unity and we need to
(49:45):
remember that and keep that moving forward in the future.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
And it's so important too for the three of us
who actually have platforms to make people feel safe, because
I feel that at this point they are really trying
to silence us, make us live in fear. And there's
not much content and visibility out there right now because companies,
with what's going on, they are scared, and it is
(50:11):
so much it is important for us to carry that
and leverage the platforms that we do to make our
community feel safe and accept it and have them lean
in on people like yourselves who make our community feel
seen like we let them and allow them.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
But it's marginalized Grece in total in total, and I
think that you're saying we are community. I thought, are
you talking about our community, gay community or community period? Yes,
And I think that that's what's important is marginalized groups,
and we're seeing it. Whether you be Jewish, whether you
be you know, Muslim, whether you be an immigrant, whatever
(50:50):
it is, we as a community should be caring about
us as a community, meaning everybody as a human being.
So the people that attack you from not even knowing
someone who's gay, or think that you're going to change
somebody because you know you're an immigrant, like we, you know,
the gay community, the queer community, need to talk up
for immigrants as well. It's the same thing. So I
(51:11):
just think every marginalized group is under attack right now
and we need to stand firm in our beliefs. Especially
you know, I'm an American citizen now and now I
get people writing to me on social media. I'll go
back to Australia, you know. You know, I'm like, I've
lived here twenty eight years, I have an American passport,
I vote in this country, and I pay taxes here.
So don't tell me to go back to Australia. I
will one day. Because our medical our healthcare system is
(51:35):
much better. Well, yeah, I mean, now, don't take care
of me when I am old.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, so much.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
We have our gay community down there.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
We better get married too. Sweet.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I will say we are the most resilient community. I
really feel that, like, and you're right, we have been
through this before and we have to continue to roll
our sleeves up. And because we're not going anywhere, that's
the thing, and we're he's not going anywhere anywhere.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
I start actually, classes of savvly blanc. I'm not leaving
this so fun, stay right here. But all jokes aside
is you know, we are an amazing country, and we're
a kind country, and we have amazing people here and
we just we need to get back on track.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah. Well, the last question I'm going to ask you
both before we wrap up. I ask this to every
person on the show.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
What is the capital of Namibia?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Not that because I wind you would.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
No, I don't even know if that'side, it's the city
just might capital.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Well that's pretty good, that is anyway, carry on all right, Well,
the show is called Wide Open, and I'm curious as
you both live such rich, beautiful lives, Like what is
a moment personally or professionally that really has split you
wide open, that has like really changed the landscape and
(52:52):
everything about who you are in your life. Like, what
was that one moment you could share with the viewers
and audience go first.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
I will say, I think, uh, well, one great example
is when we started doing Queer Eye, And like I said,
that was twenty two years ago. I was not completely
out to like everybody in the world and all my
like circle of friends and horse show friends and family.
And when that show, like you had to come out
(53:24):
like I was gonna be on the cover of TV GUIDs.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
They were like duh uh yeah, they were like duh.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
But I think that was so liberating to just to
come out in that way, in such a big way,
which I'm just.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Like, hello world, yuess what.
Speaker 2 (53:42):
No shit, But it.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Was incredibly liberating to just finally have that, you know,
that weight off your shoulder and just be like, oh,
I don't give an f anymore.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
I can just exactly be exactly.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Who I am. And the fact that we were celebrated
for it. And I always tell the story like I
would go to my hometown and I'd be walking around
the Lehigh Valley mall and they'd be like, you know,
there's that queer guy. And then like after the show
it had reset even like reclaimed that word.
Speaker 4 (54:07):
They're like, oh my god, are you that queer guy?
Speaker 1 (54:10):
And I was like that.
Speaker 4 (54:11):
Okay, So that was a very defining era.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yes, well that gives you the platform also just to
finally live your truth and what a beautiful.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
And that's the most powerful.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Nay, nay, what about me?
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I think, I mean keeping on that Jean like like
that sort of perspective. I think when I did tell
my best friend, we were very drunk. It was getting
towards news Eve and I grabbed her and I just
started seeing Lisa for like seven months at that point,
and I think I pulled her into the kitchen and
I thought you were going to say something then, because
(54:50):
now usually you would if I was at dinner, you'd
be like, and you kissed her.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
I was not.
Speaker 4 (54:54):
I pulled her respectful.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
We went in the kitchen and I said, I got
to tell you something. And I started a little emotional
and I said I'm in a relations I'm seeing someone.
And she goes and she literally looked me dead in
now and she goes, is it shorty? And Lisa was
shorter yeah in me like five five, and I'm like yes,
and she goes, oh, I've no shit, I've known hello.
(55:18):
And I'll never forget that moment because it just made
me feel like my best friend loved me no matter why.
And we went back out and started partying and drinking
again and having good time and it was like nothing
changed for me at all with her. And subsequently, like
another funny story about that, which was a moment that
also made me realize that the youth of today are
(55:39):
the ones that are going to save us. My godchild,
who was at the time, probably nine, and we were
doing marriage equality in Australia. She came home from school
and said, mom, if I was voting, I would vote yes.
And she said really why She goes, well, her best
friend had two moms, or she knew of two moms,
and she said they should be allowed to get married.
And Tracy looked at her and said, well, you know,
(56:00):
you know gay people too, and she said what really,
and she goes yes, Renee and my partner at the time,
and she goes, oh, I just thought they were lesbians,
and I was like dead. So this subject heading was
from the mouths of babes and she told me that
whole story, and I told that story at the stonewall
for my speech, and the whole place died because I
(56:23):
was like, I so for her being a lesbian was like, oh,
big deal, right, right, And so she was like, didn't
even it didn't even cross her mind that that was
an issue, and she was like nine. So I'm like, oh,
the kids of tomorrow are going to be the ones
that are going to put their foot down to say
this is not right.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
That yeah, yeah, let's hope.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
Well, let's blackppy pride everyone.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Happy pride community as our YAP.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
I can't let you both leave without saying this, because
this whole segment is definitely about our queerness and how
we show up and community and grace and all of
the beautiful things that exist in our community. But I
will say this, may we all find community like this
because truthfully, in the hardest season of my life, you
opened your doors and your heart to me, and you
(57:13):
don't realize the impact it made on me to feel
strong and confident enough to walk through it.
Speaker 5 (57:20):
So thank you, oh thank you, Oh comebye happy.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
You're two of my favorite people. So really it was
a pleasure to thanks.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
For another week of tuning in too. Wide Open with
Ashland Harris, Carson and Renee come back every.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Week, please anytime.
Speaker 4 (57:36):
Thank you, Heres sheers.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Carson slugged his two.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Minutes a damn, It's so delicious.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronoff, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(58:11):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.