March 10, 2025 • 57 mins
In this episode, Ashlyn gets deep with RaeShanda Lias, a Kentucky-based fashion entrepreneur, content creator, and author. RaeShanda talks about her winding journey to success and how traumatic experiences built her into the woman, business owner, and mother she is today. Ashlyn and RaeShanda reflect on the joys and challenges of motherhood, the complexities of being queer, and living out divorces in the public eye.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Before we jump in a note on our content. This
episode discusses explicit topics that are more appropriate for an
adult audience. Listener discretion advised. Hi everyone, and welcome back
(00:23):
to Wide Open with Ashland Harris. I have the one
and only guests today. You guys are going to be
so excited to hear from Rashan Elias. Welcome to the show.
Welcome to Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
First of all, this is amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
I'm super proud of you. I want you to know that,
so proud. It feels good to be here. It feels good.
Today is a good day and we are about to
get in. We woke up, Yes, we woke up, and
here's all we could do.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I did a heavy poor because I thought you might
need it.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You're a bad influence.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I really am. Welcome to New York. Welcome to New York.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Cheers to that.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We welcome to Oh that's a little Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm a little okay.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I didn't know how it was getting serenaded today. What
are we getting into?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, it just depends how far you want to take it. Honey,
your story is out of this world, like you have
lived such a full life and you have so many
years ahead of you. I like, clearly I know you, right,
who doesn't if you live under a rock?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Maybe right?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
You have two point four million TikTok followers. Yes, you
go viral all the time. I like your videos give
me joy, laughter, education, and it's just so like it's
you don't put effort into it at all. I can
(01:50):
genuinely see this is just who you are.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
This is just who I am.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
And I tell people all the time, right when brands
approach me and people approach me to do something, I'm like,
nothing I do is script it. When I get up
at the board, I have no idea what I'm gonna say.
I may have a thought like, oh I want to
talk about thes. I don't know what I'm going to
say or how. I just wanted to be funny and
hopefully offend the people that it needs to offend.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Absolutely absolutely, And I you have such a beautiful story.
I mean you've lived a life, honey, Yes, a life.
A lot has happened, and we're going to get into
that because I really feel, or at least I assume
it has shaped you a lot and who you are,
your identity, how you move in the world, but I
(02:34):
always start each episode with a pretty heavy, deep question
which will lead us into the conversation. You know, the
reason why this show is called wide open is not
only because of the context in sports of like seizing
the moment and that moment of awareness to execute, but
it's really peeling back the layers, like really being vulnerable
(02:56):
and raw and letting people into under stand what we
do is not who we are exactly. And with that,
I want to ask and what moment in your life
has split you wide open? What moment changed everything for you?
(03:17):
It was do you need a sip pony? Because we
get deep real quick.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
December of twenty eleven.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Now, prior to December twenty eleven, I put in my
resignation at thirty years old. I had worked at Kentucky
State University in the financial aid office. After coming to
Kentucky in beginning of six. Hurricane Katrina was five August five.
I was in Mississippi, so coming there doing the things
(03:51):
completing my degree that I had started while I was
in the military. I went home with these high hopes
I had about being an author. I'm going to write
a book. I don't want to work for anybody anymore.
I'm going to cash out my foe when one came
my retirement, my army benefits, and I'm going to save
(04:11):
the world. I was going to go start a nonprofit
back home in Mississippi. One of my friends had just
became a grandmother at the age of thirty, and I
had my oldest son at just thirteen years old. I
remember there was a program for teen moms, and I said,
I'm going to go back home and start this nonprofit.
And that was on my birthday. July twenty nine is
(04:33):
when I resigned. And within four months I had about
thirty thousand dollars stolen from me by a family member.
I had given access them access to my funds because
my children were there, and it was gambled away. And
I found out Christmas Eve that I had nothing but
(04:57):
the money that I had on me, and in my anger,
I got my children up out of the bed and
I just drove in the middle of the night from
Mississippi back to Kentucky. And though I had lived in Frankfort,
Kentucky and worked at Kentucky State, I probably had been
to Louisville maybe once, which is the biggest city in
(05:19):
the state. And I drove to Louisville, never been had
a few friends I had made through the years, but
I didn't know anybody. And we stopped at this pay
by the week motel and that's where my life started over.
I got a temp job, I looked for a look
(05:41):
for housing, and the people that I had made friends
with really rallied around me to try to help, because
we can't do this thing alone, right.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So even though it was a few, we were mighty.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
They made sure that I at least had a place
and came by the pay by the week motel and
my friend was like, I'll help you because again, you
still have to pay for it. I don't have that
much money. And going into that bathroom, in that motel
hotel room and getting on my I just said, God,
(06:18):
you gonna have to fix this because I can't fix it.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I had been through a lot of my life, you know,
team pregnancy, rate, molestation, divorce, domestic violence, but I had
never been broke. I had never had zero dollars and
you got four children, right, how do you explain to
them what is happening? And that was my turning moment,
that was me going back to the basics. I knew
(06:43):
I needed a job, so I started through a tempt
service and I got hired at Republic Bank.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
During tax season. So this was, you know, January February.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I'm like, okay, and here I am at this point
in my life and I don't know what I'm doing,
don't know what to do, and I find a place right,
and somebody was like, oh, you don't.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Want to live in West Louisville.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
One of the ladies at my job, I had the
newspaper opening circling places, and she was like, you don't
want to live there. And I was like, why wouldn't
I want to live there? I don't know the city.
She was like, oh, no, that's a bad area, and
then turning found that it was not. It's just predominantly black.
And the landlord was super understanding. I told him I
had this job that was turning into a permanent job,
(07:32):
and I went from this one room motel to a
five bedroom house with my children, full basement. I was excited.
I didn't care where it was. We had housing, right.
And then my old job called me and was like,
we heard you're in town and we would like to
hire you back. Now I'm at the bank working and
(07:55):
they was like, well, we'll pay you twenty dollars an
hour and I'm going to drive from Louisville back to
my old job. And I said, are you sure, because
if I leave this job with no notice, I can't
come back because it's tim job. And they worked me
for one day and told me that they couldn't pay
(08:15):
me what they had agreed to pay me. I am
now gotten a home, fresh out of homelessness, and left
a job for a quote unquote better job, and you
all let me go on day one. So I had
to go through a lot, but I didn't go quietly,
(08:36):
so they had to end up paying me and they
had to pay me for the agreed upon time and
agreed upon amount. And I said, you know what, I'm
going to start my own business. And I started a
Facebook page called all This Fair and Love and Fashion
like all this Fair and Love War and it went viral.
It was going viral before it was viral. And I
was literally just putting together style ideas for women. I
(08:58):
wasn't selling anything. So if you ever saw the little
collages with the boots, the hat, the purse, all the
things together, but no person in it. Those things That's
what I started doing on this app called Polyboard on
my phone and it took off and somebody said you
should open a boutique.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Now.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I was like, I retail now. I don't want to
do retail and just a follower. That's why I said,
we can't do this thing along a follower. And she
said she called my house. She was like, well, I'll
hire you. I have a boutique in Atlanta. I'll hire
you to be a buyer because you have a good eye.
And we tried it for maybe two months and she
was like, no, your following is growing. You should really
(09:38):
do this. A stranger she drove her from Atlanta. We
went to Las Vegas to a show, the Magic Show
is what they call it, where all the manufacturers, all
of the products are. She taught me how to price them,
how to pick them out, all the things, and I
literally asked, I went from twenty thirteen is when I
launched a boutique. March twenty thirteen, I went from selling
(10:00):
plasma to pay bills to a six figure business in
ten months from Facebook. And when January came and I
got my ten ninety nine k from payper, I said, oh,
I'm going to jail. I said, I'm going to jail
because I ain't no way I made this much money
on the internet, and I went, got my business registered,
did all the things, made sure my taxes were in order,
(10:22):
and it changed my life. But it's coming from nothing.
All this fair love and fashion really changed my life
and my children's life because I didn't see it. I
didn't see how I was gonna get out of this
thing that I was put in. And the crazy part
is the first grant that I ever got after lunch
(10:44):
of my business, the largest grant was because I lived
in West Louisville, and had I listened to that lady
about not moving to that area, I would have never
won that grant. And I was packing the shipping everywhere
from LA to Singapore, like people were buying my stuff
just from online.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I actually, this is so crazy. You know.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
She and is one of the top retailers now. But
back then, in twenty twelve twenty thirteen, they were paying
to advertise on my page. They were paying me to
advertise on my page. And I had to make a
decision if I was going to launch my boutique and
get paid that way or get paid just for advertising
on my page and now to see them as big
(11:26):
as they are, as crazy. But that was my big,
like wide open moment, because what do you do when
you don't have anything, when you have mouths to feed?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (11:37):
And in those moments you can see grace and you
can see community and people show up because the only
reason why I found that home is because I didn't
have any other options but to hear somebody say, oh,
you don't want to live there and turn down. I
never had a problem.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
In that area.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And I went and bought a Jag after that, and
I parked that jack in the West End in front
of that house and it never got bothered. So it
is these things, these misconceptions that people have about certain
areas or certain people to certain things that I continue
to break. And that was one of those things. But
that was my wide open moment to go from nothing
(12:14):
to not even I had no idea what I was
going to do.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
There is something inside you that is so beautiful that
you don't even have to say it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I feel it.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
There's something that has made you exactly who you are
and I'm curious, did you know that was there someone
who shaped you in this way or was it life's
circumstances where you had no choice.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I knew nobody was coming to say, nobody was coming
to fix it for me.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I had to fix it.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Just even after my first marriage, I knew I had.
I made that decision, so I had to fix it right.
I made the decision because I knew going into the
marriage that I was gay. I told him that I was,
and I had to make a decision. Do I stay
in this marriage unhappy or do I leave and hurt
him in the process, even though I was honest and upfront.
(13:24):
So all the decisions we make once we're in those
things and we have to know. Some people have that
but I don't have. I didn't have anybody coming for me,
and little Rashonda knew that there's something better out there.
This is not the end for me. Something in that
motel room told me this is not the end. I
(13:44):
just have to figure out the next day. I have
to figure out the next step. The first thing is
I have a vehicle. I just need a job, so
I have to because most people don't have either, which
makes it even more difficult. So at least in my
lowest I still was privileged to have transport. So I said, oh,
I have to get a job, because.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
There you are a children are looking at you, mama,
this is we never been in a motel before, a
hotel before. What is this a matter? And even though
they were young, they knew, like, this is not us.
You're gonna have to fix it. So even though they
didn't say it, I knew I had to fix it
and nobody was coming to save me.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Just like now, no, it's something to save it us.
We're gonna have to fix it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
We're gonna have to fix it. And that's what we do,
and we do it with community.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
We do it together.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And that's why I think your story is so special
and so important because so many people out there. You
will give them the strength to not quit, to not
give up, to not feel alone. And I think that's invaluable.
And as a young thirteen year old who gets pregnant, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I say that.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'm a thirty nine year old who started adopting children
a few years ago, and it's I've done a lot
of hard shit in my life and nowhere near what
you've done. It is the hardest thing I've ever done.
Oh my god, it is the hardest thing I've ever done.
And to know you were thirteen, you're doing this alone.
(15:16):
You decide, you know, you really confront your sexuality, right, yes,
And then you decide, I'm going to go to the military.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I'm like, girl, you get what this couldn't play out?
Then you're you go to the military. I think you're
in Frankfurt, Germany, yes, and you're like, Frankfurt.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Kids, I'm now going to marry a man.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I'm now having more children. I'm going to come home
now that I'm out of that bubble, and I can
see clearly what you know. I would assume you're like,
oh fuck this this mean for me?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And here's the thing I knew then. I knew.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I told him that. I told him when he asked
me I had a girl friend. I was like, this
is not But my family was like, well, this is
just a phase, you know. And I'm nineteen, by the way,
I'm nineteen at the time, and I'm like, you don't
want to marry me, Like, it's not even because I'm gay,
it's because I'm not anybody's wife. I've been reading a Bible, sir.
(16:15):
It's a lot of instructions in there for wives, and
I don't want to do any of that. So that
is not what I want in my life. Like I literally,
and because I am so funny of being I've always
been this way, people.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Don't take me serre. But I was literally. I said
I was in second grade that I like girls.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I knew that, but who was I going to come
out to And in high school watching older gay men
come out and trans men come out and be berated,
I was like, oh no, I can't, you know. So
when I finally did to my mom at eighteen, I
was like, okay. But at thirteen, I got pregnant the
(16:54):
first time having sex. Listening to my friends, I was
a cheerleader and they were talking about that's what they
were doing.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, no, I said, it can't be.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
It hurt, it was awkward, it's clear. It's not what
they show in the movies. It's none of that. It's
not And for me to get pregnant, and my aunt
kept asking me, you know, after I missed my cycle
and my mom knew because she wore tampons and I didn't.
She was like, I haven't seen any sanitary napkins in
the trash. This is my mom, FBI agent. And I
(17:28):
was like, so I went and wrapped one up, and
that nasty little lady went in there and opened that
went through that trash and opened that pad and was like,
there's nothing in this pad. Fine, I'm pregnant.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You got me. I'm busted.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
But prior to that, my aunt asking me, asked me,
I knew why she was asking me. I didn't know,
but I knew because she kept saying, if you are,
we can fix it, you know. But she wasn't saying
and I'm thirteen, so I'm not knowing that she's talking
about abortion or whatever. She's like, we could fix it
if you are. But the door is cracked in my room.
I can see my mom sitting in her room looking
(18:02):
at me. So I kept saying, no, I'm not until
it was too late, right, So I finally said it
three months I was like, yes I am. And for
my friends, I lost all of them, right. They judged
my mom, my dad, my family. Teachers didn't want me
in the classroom pregnant. I had some teachers that really
(18:22):
did stand up for me, but it changed everything. And
my best friend her at the time. She laid in
the hospital bed with me the day I had him,
and his dad was always present, his grandmother always present,
and I lost him. He was died in a car accident.
(18:42):
My oldest son's father died in a car accident when
he was two. And then my boyfriend after that passed away.
And then my mom was like, well, maybe me and
aren't for you, Maybe you should try women. But so
I had already experienced loss early on in my life
and that probably kind of made me numb to just
you know, or I don't even save people's numbers even now.
(19:05):
People are temporary. Things are temporary, and I think it
stems from that. But being thirteen and going through that
and seeing you learn really fast who your friends are
and you have to grow up fast. And my mom
I had my son in July eighteenth and school started
back allus eighth My mom would just wrap me and
(19:25):
surround rap and put me on a girdle and was
like you have to go, Like now you have to
go even harder.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
So I didn't get six or eight weeks rest.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I got about two and a half three weeks rest,
and then it was back to school ninth grade. I
started ninth grade and I went ahead and graduated. I
graduated in the top ten of my class, and I
went to the military. I said, I have to, but
it had to be my uncles and aunts and the community.
My mom would drag that crib into her room every
(19:52):
night during the week, so I had no excuse not
to get up in the morning because the baby's on
you know, three four hours sleep schedule.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
My mom has to and she's still doing this.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Why my mom has my brother because we're ten years apart,
so I just added another child to her household. Right,
But she went so hard for me, which is why
now take care of her. I cannot not take care
of my mom, right, I cannot not. She sacrificed for
me to be where I am, and it's sad.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Now I'm getting why.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I open sea because she's in stage five dementia and
she doesn't know that I'm doing the things that she
prayed that I would be doing.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
But she helped me get there, Yeah, by not giving up.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Because a lot of my friends who got pregnant after me,
and they did not walk across that stage. Their parents
put them out. They did not graduate. I don't know
where they are, But I'm glad my mam didn't give
up on me and I didn't give up on myself.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah. I love that, and that's beautiful and I appreciate
you sharing that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
But what I will say is she knows, Yeah, she knows.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
She knows exactly what you were destined to do, and
that's why she made the sacrifices she did and believed
in you and every turn of your life. Okay, sorry, honey,
this is wide open and you're really bringing it, and
I just I'm grateful for your honesty and I'm grateful
for your story because so many people would quit and
(21:18):
that was never an option, and it was never an
option for your mother either and for your family. And
I always say it didn't happen to you, it happened
for you, yea. And you were built for this moment.
You were built for the spotlight. You were built for,
you know, being a part of people's home to bring
them joy and honesty and realness. And I imagine because
(21:42):
of the life you've walked, you have this way of
carrying yourself and you're so wise, way beyond your years.
Clearly you could be so reserved, so shut off, and
rightfully so at every turn, You've been knocked down, but
you choose joy every day, you choose laughter, you choose light,
(22:04):
And I think that is a really special gift and
you deserve this moment. You're building this beautiful boutique which
makes people happy. And I think what separates you so much?
How has your journey, how has your experiences really like
affected your children of knowing exactly who they are and
(22:28):
giving them the strength to be like, look what my
mom went through and look where she's at, Like talk
about that, talk about you know, your your family is beautiful.
You have a trand son, and you have a pan
sexual daughter, correct, and you.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Identify as gay.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So I'm curious of You've got this beautiful family that
has gone through so much. How has that, this queerness,
this identity of queerness for you shape them.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I wanted my children to have a happy parent. I
was not going to be happy masking who I was,
and that does not display freedom to them. Then they
wouldn't be able to be truly who they are. So
me being fully who I am before I even knew
them allowed them to be who they are. So when
(23:17):
my son first came out to me and I was like,
you know I'm on lesbian. I was like, okay, we'll
see it's more but all right, but I'm glad that
he did. Or my youngest. So it's my oldest and
my youngest. We call the twins the straits, but my
(23:38):
oldest and my youngest being able to and they're one
and the same, they are the I always say that
the my youngest is the untampered with version of me,
the one that I probably would have been had I
not gone through everything now because she is the epitome
(24:02):
of freedom and over sharing. Oh my lord, but I
am glad so because of that, and because of my
twins being who they are, and we were just raised
to love right. Even in the big family that I'm
talking about, my mom and her siblings, my uncles marrying
Caucasian women, and my cousins being lighter or and mixed
(24:26):
and seeing loved, seeing love in a melting pot, and
nobody is judged right. Even after divorces and things happen.
They're still family, they still show up to the family union.
We're still everything is still loved. That's how I was
raised right. Everybody goes through their things, my uncles and
(24:46):
making sure that they reaffirmed who I was, even in
my darker skin than the rest of my family. Right, Oh,
we love you, We love your full lips, we love
your not like it was all love my dad pouring
into me. So I did that to my children. We
are loving, We say I love you all through the day.
(25:06):
We give kisses, we give hugs. I broke the cycle
of because my mom can't help how she grew up. Right,
growing up in the eighties, you just can't tell your
parents how you feel.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
It's seen us talking back, or it's seen as you
don't have nothing to stress about because you don't pay bills.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
But as I got older, my mom listened, like seventeen
eighteen nineteen, but I started earlier with my children. It's
okay to have feelings. It's okay to tell me how
you feel right in a respectful manner. It's okay if
you don't like spaghetti, right, because here's the thing. We
grew up and you eat what you eat, or you
(25:48):
don't eat right. Finding out that they are not just
extensions of you like they're not.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
They are their own people.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
When you realize your children are just little people growing up,
they can be and do whatever so that's why I
go back to little Ray. One of my aunts was
a librarian. I would be in the library all the
time in my little nook reading. Reading can take you
anywhere you want to go, which is why I say,
I've never been told that I can't. That's why I
do it is that freedom in it and raising queer children.
(26:23):
I just had to say be here. I'm here to
particular if the world don't like you, fuck oh exactly okay,
because I'm here. And I was glad when I came
out to my mom and my dad that they were
just like okay, And it's nothing new because people forget
queer people have always been here.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
So I give that to my children.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Right, you are exactly who you're supposed to be, and
you are perfect just that way.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And I can imagine what those dinner table talks off
feel like, sound like. I mean, it is so beautiful
to hear that, because not everyone has that type of
coming out experience, and especially in this political climate that
(27:13):
you and I are working, yes so hard to change
for people to understand that.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Because it's simply business.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
It's just not it's not And the moment that you
tell somebody that you're gay or lesbian or trans or whatever,
then it becomes all about that, when it's simply it's not.
I am still smart, I am still funny. I'm still
doing my job. That's why I say incorporate. If you're
in corporate and.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
You're gay, you're still doing your job. Everything.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Nothing is attached to it about people automatically go to
our bedrooms. That's not where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
That's not your business, Karen.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I'm not worried about you what you and Donald are
doing in your bedroom.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Stop worrying, moment.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Stop worrying about what I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I don't understand it. When I walk into a room,
I walk in there all the things that I am.
I don't separate my blackness and my queerness and my
being a veteran and a business owner. And when I
walk in, I'm all those things. The first thing you're
going to see is that I'm a black woman. Whatever
I give you after that is you know, you find
(28:15):
that out. But when I walk in, I'm still walking
in all of those things. You treat me differently when
you start finding out who I am.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
That's the problem. Yeah, I know who I am, which.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Is also what I say all the time when we
are so quick to judge our youth trans can you
imagine being their age and knowing exactly who they fucking
are and owning it when you're in your forties.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
And fifties and still there and you still.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Don't know who the fuck you are, and you want
to judge a young child for being so brave because
they know exactly who they are.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
And then we can't tell them because remember I said,
I knew in second grade, somebody would be like, you.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Don't know anything.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
We don't listen to them because we write them off, right,
even when they're eighteen nineteen. It's like, oh, your frontal
lobe has to develop, you wait till you're twenty five.
But I knew who I was back then, and you
stifled me, even me getting married.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
My family was like, oh, it's just a phase. You
should just try to try. What you're doing is bringing
in somebody else's feelings and emotions, and I wasn't about
to play with them, which is why I was trying
to be upfront and honest. It's okay that you love me,
it's okay that you like me. What I'm trying to
tell you you want me to stuff down a part
of myself that's just not gonna go anywhere. It's just
(29:34):
gonna bubble back up, and then we're gonna be at
this crossroads. I believe that for a lot of people,
which is also why it offends them when they see us,
like you said that you were gonna do this, and
this is the life you chose.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
We chose a different path and it's okay. Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
And that's what makes us all so beautiful. Yes, right,
And I think some people need to watch your stories
for a little education. Your your your social media content
is so good. But during this does it scare you?
During this political climate with Trump in office and the
(30:16):
things that he's you know, he's been saying this for
a long time of what he plans to do, and
you know, you your family is very colorful, yes, And
what are you scared living in Kentucky in a very
very conservative place that is a red state and the
(30:37):
potential of the harm that he's going to put on
our community and personally your son?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yes, how do you feel?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Like?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
How are you coping?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I now that terrifies me, right because we just had
he came over last night and watched his clothes as
the children do, and you know, shopping your refrigerator, and
that was one of the things we talked about. We
talked about la We talked about Chicago, not so much
New York because it's cod Okay, but also Chicago is
(31:09):
but that's where my dad is. But we know, we
were like, we have to and I'm going to visit
Colorado Denver too. We have to get to a blue state.
I don't want my children's freedom restricted at all. I
set them free.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I'm so glad that the HRC brought us together.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yes, and I love that you have found your voice
and your activism for our community, for yourself, for women.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Do your kids are they proud of you?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
They look at do They look at you and they're like, damn, mom,
you're really doing it.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
They tell me that all the time. It is so
now I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It is so because I was so scared that I
just fucked them up so bad because in me finding myself,
I'm raising children right because there's no instructions. But you're
also even for me learning the things that happened to
my mom in her life and then her having me
at twenty three years old. I can see myself at
(32:10):
twenty three, even though I was married. But just imagine
you at twenty three. We was out here wilding at
twenty three, So imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And no social media, right.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
No social media and raising a child or raising children.
So I was the only child until I was ten.
And my mom, she said, I always knew I wanted
to be a mom. I always wanted to live on you.
But I look back and there were days that my
mom would come home. I'll say this. My grandmother passed
when I was five in nineteen eighty six. That means
(32:45):
that if I was five, my mom was twenty eight
losing her mom. There was a point in my mom's
life where she said that she didn't remember dressing me,
putting me on the school bus. She did those things,
but she slept most of the day. She took nerve pills,
(33:05):
she took her but she was going through something. She
lost her mom, and nothing stops. The world doesn't stop
in grief. So she's raising me through grief. She's raising
me through trauma that she's been through prior to me
getting here. She's working through all that. So I was
terrified that my children wouldn't understand, and they were like, no, Mama,
(33:26):
we're in our twenties now, we understand. We're all just
figuring this. We're all just figuring this things out, and
you have to give yourself grace. And I could only
just apologize, like I'm so sorry for whatever, and if
you need to go to counseling or about me or
talk about I found out when they were little they
(33:51):
used to have group meetings about me. Not bad, but
just how are we gonna infiltrate today? Are we gonna
send the baby nacy? Are we gonna send herry in
and ask for what we want today like they had.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
If they were smart.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
So even now being older, I'm like, I hope you
all know that I did the best that I could.
You know, everybody's grown now. My youngest is twenty one
and twins are twenty three, and my oldest is twenty nine.
So I'm like, I did it, and I hope you
all are proud. So for them to be like Mama,
we are. We understand now that you only can do
what you know, right, you only and when I learned better,
(34:26):
I did better and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, And what your experiences and the life you've walked
and led are going to make them the most incredible humans.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Because they got a front row. They got a front
row seat.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I hope so.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
And that's why I love this show so much, because
we're here to share our scars. We're here to protect
people to not walk the hardship, the hard parts of
our life. If we can talk about it and we
can help, we're more of a success than anything else
(35:04):
we've ever done. Absolutely, I'll be back in just a
moment after this brief message from our sponsors. I always
say this, there's a difference between having kids and being
a parent. Yes, there is a big fucking difference on
(35:26):
how you show up. Yes, And I love the way
you show up in Parent and I think your kids
are able to see that and when they look at
themselves like you are their superhero. You're still choosing to advocate,
You're still choosing to show up and use your voice
in your platform. And now you have this audience where
(35:47):
people are listening.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
What is that like? Is crazy? What is that like?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
On this side?
Speaker 4 (35:54):
It's crazy? It's crazy because I didn't imagine, right. I'm
going to tell you a quick story walking through Dubai
twenty twenty one, my first time going walking through the mall,
I'm just in awe because it's Dubai and I'm like,
oh my god.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
And I say out of my mouth.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I was like, I wonder what it's like to open
a boutique over here, Like what does it take exactly?
And I remember one of my friends saying, well, you
have to know somebody that already lives there, and they
have to own at least fifty one percent of your business,
all the things, and.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I was like, I'm going to open a boutique over
here one day.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
And that was in March of twenty twenty one and
May of twenty twenty one, I was contacted via Instagram
and I.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Want to say this.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
While I was in Dubai, people were sending me tiktoks
and I still wasn't on TikTok right now.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I'm behind. I was like, I'm not downloading another app.
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I'm refusing and I get back in March of twenty
twenty one, and at the end of March, I posted
my first video and I think my second video went
viral when I did rules for my Funeral or something
like that, and I was contacted by a lady who's
a teacher in Dubai, and she was like, I'm reading
(37:23):
this book called Girl on Fire by carral Alwell. Right,
she wrote Champagne die here. She's here in New York.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I love her.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
She wrote about me when she met me, about going
from homeless to six figures in her book. This lady
is in Dubai reading about my story and she's a
teacher and she's like, I want to open a boutique
over here, not knowing I had just spoken out of
my mouth it two months before, in March March April May,
(37:54):
three months before saying I wonder what to be like
because sometimes your thoughts and her dreams aren't for you,
there for you to help other people. So in doing that,
I said I'm going to start a TikTok and had
no idea that it would grow the way that they
(38:16):
did in these three years and be in these spaces
and be booked at the and working with the dream
brands that I want to work with. But to be able,
the biggest thing is walking through anywhere. It doesn't matter where.
The second time I went to do Bai, I'm on
the plane and I simply asked for water. I had
(38:37):
masks on, so it was still. So it was in
of twenty twenty one. So I've been on TikTok at
this point six months, seven months, and this lady says,
say that again, and I said, I just wanted on water.
She said, oh my god, it's you. So this was
March of twenty twenty two, so it had been a year.
And I said what she was like. My mother followed,
(39:00):
I'm about to call it right now. We're on an
Emirates flight in Dubai flying back to the States and
there's somebody that recognized me by my voice and it
has not stopped.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
So all the love, all.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
The hugs, even the flight attendants when they recognize me,
giving me my extra snacks. It is so crazy. But
also for people to say thank you, thank you for
being a voice, thank you for standing up, because who's
going to do it right, even in the political climate
we were in, They was like, thank you for sacrificing
(39:34):
your platform.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I was like, it's no sacrifice.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
When people tell you, oh, I liked you until you
got political or all the things, they don't realize that
everything we do is political, from where you live to.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Where you work to what you drive.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
All of that is dictated by politics, and you are
foolish if you don't think that it is. Everything is
political because everything, every law has to be passed in
order for something to take place, in order for it
to be what it is. And I'm not sure why
people don't understand it. So it was no sacrifice to me.
I have enjoyed it thoroughly, dragging who needs to be dressed.
(40:14):
It's standing up for those who needs to be sit
up for it because it affects us all.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
What people don't realize with this incredible gift of success
and fame comes a lot of responsibility. Oh yeah, right,
and you lived out a very public, oh my god,
very public divorce. You were married, and we share this together.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
You can have to be your wife, yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
But yeah, what the hardest part is is you.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You you build this platform, right, you build this success
where people are willing to listen. Yes, and you know,
in twenty nineteen, you get married and you start bringing
you know, your wife at the time on your TikTok,
and then you know, things happen and you get a
divorce and now you have to live this publicly which
(41:07):
is people don't understand. Once you open your life up
to the media, to success, to people following you, they
want more, they want more, they want more, they want
it all. Yes, and they're not entitled to that. But
you got on your platform and you just told it
how it was. Yes, And I respect that, and I
can take a lesson in your book. I stood in
(41:31):
my integrity because I didn't want to say anything, and
the media and tabloids went haywire because my silence was
a admission of guilt or of wrongdoing, or of all
these things that they could draw up. And I guess
that is my biggest mistake. My biggest regret is not
(41:52):
sitting in my truth because I was so fearful of
who it might hurt. Oh, yes, but it hurt me
in the process.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
See, so how does that like?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
That is my question to you, Like, what is it
like to now sit in such a famous space where
people recognize you and go through such a public separation
and divorce.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I knew that I was gonna have to say something, right,
it's social media, but also people were the major reason
that I brought up the divorce itself was because people
were asking, like, where are we sending the decorations this
year because she would decorate and it was coming up
on Halloween and we hadn't said anything, and they hadn't
(42:36):
seen her because they pay attention to everything. They pay
attention to everything. So I was like, I'm just gonna
get on here and simply say, hey, we're filing for
And this was I did.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
It twenty twenty three, right, yes, the.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Inner September, after I had filed for a divorce, I
went on there and just simply said I fout for
a divorce.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Right. I wasn't dragging.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
I didn't want to. I didn't want to do it,
but I had to do it because it had to
be done. I was like, I and I locked off.
So then it comes about that, oh she Rashonda must
have been cheating or she's had this weight loss surgery
and now she's leaving her behind. And then she went
(43:25):
on there running her mouth and I was like.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Well, okay.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Then I went to my best friend's house and I said, well,
best friend, give me a glass of wine, and I'm
gonna go live and I'm gonna say this one time
and one time only. I'm just gonna put it all
out on the table. With time stamps, dates and everything,
because I remember, and I just let it go. The
thing is, people drug me for it, just like they
(43:56):
drug you for not saying anything.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
The people that drugged me for saying something, I can't
worry about it. I never gave a damn, not one, two, three, four, five,
six damns. I couldn't worry about it. I had, which
is what I said on there. I have no problem
with a burning a bridge while I'm standing on it
to let people know that I'm not to be fucked with.
Because and I said that because I knew social media.
(44:21):
I've been on social media since twenty eleven, well before then,
but as far as being viral and people knowing me
since twenty eleven twenty twelve when I started my All
is Fair in Love and Fashion. So I knew that
with me saying something that I would be I would
get kind of burned too, and I had to be
okay with that. So once I accepted that I'm gonna
(44:42):
tell my truth, I can't help it if you believe
it or not. I'm telling you this and I'm only
repeating myself. I'm only saying it. One time, I had
to be okay with that I don't want you to
regret not saying anything. But for me, I knew I
had to, and the way I I was raised, I
just had to. I wish I had that thing that
(45:03):
Beyonce has. Well, she doesn't address anything about it. Let
you think what you want to think. But for me,
I knew our wedding was gonna say yes to the dress,
so we got married publicly. This was gonna have to
end publicly, right, and I believe that it had to
be that bad, as bad as it was to be unfixable.
(45:25):
It had to be so broken that I didn't even
want to try, and I didn't. I didn't try. I
didn't want to fix it. I didn't want it back.
I wanted it to be exactly what it was. Because
every day since then, actually I've been blessed beyond me.
Every day I wake up to another blessing. So over
three hundred and sixty five days ago, I have been
(45:46):
blessed every day since then. And I knew that it
was gonna be bad, and I had and it could
have been worse right because I had big media to
reach out to me, that wanted to interview me, but
I didn't want to drag it.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I said what I said.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
She knew exactly who I was talking to, and then
it was a rap for me in my mind because
I'm divorced that day. The moment that you bring something
to social media, it's a rap. We were never gonna
come back from it, so we might as wear air
the shit out right now. I'm not a crash out
(46:23):
person like on the internet, go crazy. I just wanted
to say my piece and be done. And then I
got the backlash about you didn't think about her son.
I said, she didn't think about her son. Everybody knows
I'm a fool. Don't fucking play with me. My children
are grown. They were like, oh, well, she doesn't care
because her children are grown. I care period, because they
(46:45):
still have feelings. They still see their mom out here
in public. But the good outweigh the bad. You can
never never focus on the negative. I'm telling you now.
I said what I said, and I logged off. I
went to bed just like any other night, did my
skincare routine, put my lip gloss on. Couldn't be bothered
(47:06):
because I don't give a damn.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I don't care.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
And then so when asks, well, that means you never
loved her, You must didn't love her. The moment that
betrayal enters something, it doesn't matter at all, And that
is my way of compartmentalizing things, maybe from trauma.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
But no, I didn't shed a tear. I did not
shed one tear.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
I felt a weight lifted up off of me, and
I walked through the door that was open, and I
couldn't worry about it. As much as I've been through,
this was a cake walk compared to what I've been through.
So I don't want you to regret not saying it
in that moment. That's what you felt. But I felt
the need to protect nobody, nobody at all. I wanted
(47:54):
to say what I needed to say in order for
me to sleep better. So now sher tern Okay.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I just appreciate the realness. And I feel that when
you say it, because once you start telling the truth,
you can't stop. I think that's the thing for me,
is one I finally acknowledge that this wasn't working, and
I started saying it out loud because we say it
internally for far too long. Yes, and we sit and
we suffer, and we do the work, and we do
(48:23):
all the things, and we do things for the kids,
and at some point you stand up and you're like, well,
what the fuck about me?
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (48:30):
What about me? Yes, you bend, you curve, you do
the cave, you do all these things. You look in
the mirror and I'm like, I look in the mirror.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I'm like, who the fuck are you?
Speaker 1 (48:39):
You've completely lost yourself.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
My best friend said that to me. She didn't say
who are you? She was like, Rishonda, I know you,
and you would have never allowed any of it, because see,
when you start compromising, like you say it, bending bending,
but takers are gonna always take. They and you don't
tell them that they are taking. You have now turned
(49:04):
them into a thief that they didn't know because you didn't.
You didn't tell the honey, So I said, I don't
tell you right now.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
It's a rap.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
We are done, we are moving. So tell me now.
What is dating like?
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Oh, it's so fun, so fun. It's a plethora of options.
The roster is just amazing.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
I'm just getting you a little juice before maybe some dates.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yes, weekend in New York.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Yes, I'm super excited to see her two. Yeah, I'm excited.
But here's the thing. I don't know if I don't know.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
You don't know what if you'll ever get married? Is
that what we're going to.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Ever get married or do anything like that again?
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Because here's the thing I always tell people, and I
think I heard Oprah say this or somebody say that,
But for me, the biggest mistakes that I've ever made
in my life have always been to a piece of people.
The first time I got married, I knew I was gay.
I got married anyway because he liked me, he loved me,
so he's asking me I might as well even though
(50:12):
you don't. That is a red flag, right there, not
a might as well marriage? And I just can't say
that I didn't like him, but I knew. And then
for her my second marriage, and on my first date,
I said I never want to be remarried again. And
I got married again even though I knew, and she
asked me in front of all of my friends.
Speaker 3 (50:34):
So what do you do?
Speaker 4 (50:35):
So, because I can do relationships, I'm good in relationships.
That's easy work. I'm faithful, I'm kind, I'm funny, that's easy.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
I don't have a problem with relationships.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
But it has to be at a point where you
love that person, you like them too, it's not just oh,
they like me, and I don't want to hurt their feelings.
And that's where I was right. Everything that I've ever
done that was a mistake was not following my intuition
and appeasing somebody else because I don't want to hurt
their feelings. So now I'm at a point where I'm like,
(51:07):
if I feel it, then maybe if I don't feel it,
I'm not going to force it or act like it's there. No,
because to spare somebody else. No, because in the end
you end up harding yourself.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Absolutely, and you lose that first Yeah, you rail everything
and everyone in the way. It's like every time I
hear Miley Cyrus, I'm like, okay, man, life run.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Well girl, I understand right now.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Understand I do too.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Until you've lived it and you're like, oh, someone rolled
the carpet for me to run a little bit. I'm
fucking sprinting. I felt like I was being chased. I
was like, I don't care who's in my way. I'm running.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Really, Oh god, I had to.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
I was like, the second I saw the light and
the sense of freedom to get.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Out, I fucking took off.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
I just ran and I didn't care who I hurt
in the process because I was so broken and damage
that I was running to save myself because I didn't
recognize who was standing in the mirror. So it's just
an interesting thing that you say. It's like you're gonna
hurt people in the process of choosing you, yes, right,
(52:24):
or you're gonna cave and you're gonna choose someone else's
joy and happiness over yourself. And how long is that
gonna last?
Speaker 3 (52:32):
My goodness, Now, I.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Won't sell my worth anymore. That's what I've learned. That
is not negotiable anymore.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
I love that. Oh you just spoke a word.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, honey, come on, cheers to that.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Cheers cheers to that.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So to end on a lighter note, I saw recently
that you went to your first sports ball game. Yes,
tell me everything, because you had me rolling. You went
to the Washington Commander's LGBTQ IA plus game, correct, which great.
(53:11):
I'm glad to see we're actually even doing that.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
I've never even heard.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Of it, I know.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
And they had T shirts. On the back of the
T shirts it says football is for everybody with a
rainbow in a football And you're right, and I'm so
glad that the Washington Commanders was able to have a
day like that. We had our owntailgating area, even though
we were in there dancing, because again, we don't know
what's happening. Most of us do not. I do know
(53:39):
when you run into the logo where the big U is,
that's a touchdown area.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
That's called the in zone.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Uh huh see.
Speaker 4 (53:47):
There's something about a two point conversion. Somebody's ponting. There's
a lot of terminology that I learned. I don't know
how to put it together. But I did have a
football purse, earrings, and necklace, which made the day better
to be coordinated with the event. But as far as
sports ball, honey, I heard something about a tight end
a wide receiver. I was like, oh, this is very
(54:09):
something's not right. But I'm glad that I was able
to be a part of that. But you know, I
learned some stuff.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
I learned what a down was down.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Okay, do you want should I take you to your
next sports ball game?
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Please?
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Do you want to go to like maybe like a
w NBA basketball game?
Speaker 3 (54:27):
You know what? That would be more of my speed.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I feel like that would be your speed.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
Yes, Okay, the indoor events, indoor with girls chic, Let's
get you court side.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Let's see honey, with that fashion. Those cameras are going
to be not worrying about the girlies on the court.
They're gonna be worrying about you.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
What is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Listen, you're my date. I'm taking.
Speaker 3 (54:47):
I will go.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
You got to come back to New York when the Liberty,
you know, because New York just won the championships. Bro,
We're out here, We're winning all the things.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Guess we're fabulous.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
We are see and I'm going to take because I
want you to learn more about the sports ball okay with.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
The girlies, Yeah, I think I know more basketball terminal.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Okay, all right, Well, thank you so much for coming
on the show.
Speaker 3 (55:12):
Thank you for having me, Thank you so.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Much for showing up in this world exactly who the
fuck you are. It is the most beautiful gift you
can give to everyone. And I'm so grateful for your
vulnerability and also this friendship that we've started. You're coming
to friends Giving, Yes, we are doing this together.
Speaker 4 (55:30):
Don't be a bad influence at friends giving too, Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
I'll try not to. We're gonna hit the Hollywood Hills together.
You're single, I'm a good wing woman.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
Oh well that's good.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
See, I'm gonna bring all of my people that are
single and ready to mingle for you. Okay, so you
better not that I worry, but you could be fly okay, fly,
but chic but comfortable.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
We're gonna have a little fire pit.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
You know, we're gonna be eating all the things.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
You just bring your happy self. The babies will be there,
so they will.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Meet Auntie a baby. They will be ripping around the
backyard thinking that this party is for them. Sloan will
probably think it's her birthday because anytime there's a gathering,
it's about her, because she's the princess.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
And we already spook about that.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
Okay, that's true. I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Thank you so much for being Thanks everyone, Thank you babe.
Thanks for tuning in everyone, and we will see you
next week.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
You can find us on.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Our producers are Carmen Borca Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones.
Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are are Jenny
(57:00):
Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm Your Host Ashlyn Harris
Before we jump in a note on our content. This
episode discusses explicit topics that are more appropriate for an
adult audience. Listener discretion advised. Hi everyone, and welcome back
(00:23):
to Wide Open with Ashland Harris. I have the one
and only guests today. You guys are going to be
so excited to hear from Rashan Elias. Welcome to the show.
Welcome to Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
First of all, this is amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
I'm super proud of you. I want you to know that,
so proud. It feels good to be here. It feels good.
Today is a good day and we are about to
get in. We woke up, Yes, we woke up, and
here's all we could do.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I did a heavy poor because I thought you might
need it.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You're a bad influence.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I really am. Welcome to New York. Welcome to New York.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Cheers to that.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We welcome to Oh that's a little Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm a little okay.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I didn't know how it was getting serenaded today. What
are we getting into?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, it just depends how far you want to take it. Honey,
your story is out of this world, like you have
lived such a full life and you have so many
years ahead of you. I like, clearly I know you, right,
who doesn't if you live under a rock?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Maybe right?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
You have two point four million TikTok followers. Yes, you
go viral all the time. I like your videos give
me joy, laughter, education, and it's just so like it's
you don't put effort into it at all. I can
(01:50):
genuinely see this is just who you are.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
This is just who I am.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
And I tell people all the time, right when brands
approach me and people approach me to do something, I'm like,
nothing I do is script it. When I get up
at the board, I have no idea what I'm gonna say.
I may have a thought like, oh I want to
talk about thes. I don't know what I'm going to
say or how. I just wanted to be funny and
hopefully offend the people that it needs to offend.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Absolutely absolutely, And I you have such a beautiful story.
I mean you've lived a life, honey, Yes, a life.
A lot has happened, and we're going to get into
that because I really feel, or at least I assume
it has shaped you a lot and who you are,
your identity, how you move in the world, but I
(02:34):
always start each episode with a pretty heavy, deep question
which will lead us into the conversation. You know, the
reason why this show is called wide open is not
only because of the context in sports of like seizing
the moment and that moment of awareness to execute, but
it's really peeling back the layers, like really being vulnerable
(02:56):
and raw and letting people into under stand what we
do is not who we are exactly. And with that,
I want to ask and what moment in your life
has split you wide open? What moment changed everything for you?
(03:17):
It was do you need a sip pony? Because we
get deep real quick.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
December of twenty eleven.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Now, prior to December twenty eleven, I put in my
resignation at thirty years old. I had worked at Kentucky
State University in the financial aid office. After coming to
Kentucky in beginning of six. Hurricane Katrina was five August five.
I was in Mississippi, so coming there doing the things
(03:51):
completing my degree that I had started while I was
in the military. I went home with these high hopes
I had about being an author. I'm going to write
a book. I don't want to work for anybody anymore.
I'm going to cash out my foe when one came
my retirement, my army benefits, and I'm going to save
(04:11):
the world. I was going to go start a nonprofit
back home in Mississippi. One of my friends had just
became a grandmother at the age of thirty, and I
had my oldest son at just thirteen years old. I
remember there was a program for teen moms, and I said,
I'm going to go back home and start this nonprofit.
And that was on my birthday. July twenty nine is
(04:33):
when I resigned. And within four months I had about
thirty thousand dollars stolen from me by a family member.
I had given access them access to my funds because
my children were there, and it was gambled away. And
I found out Christmas Eve that I had nothing but
(04:57):
the money that I had on me, and in my anger,
I got my children up out of the bed and
I just drove in the middle of the night from
Mississippi back to Kentucky. And though I had lived in Frankfort,
Kentucky and worked at Kentucky State, I probably had been
to Louisville maybe once, which is the biggest city in
(05:19):
the state. And I drove to Louisville, never been had
a few friends I had made through the years, but
I didn't know anybody. And we stopped at this pay
by the week motel and that's where my life started over.
I got a temp job, I looked for a look
(05:41):
for housing, and the people that I had made friends
with really rallied around me to try to help, because
we can't do this thing alone, right.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So even though it was a few, we were mighty.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
They made sure that I at least had a place
and came by the pay by the week motel and
my friend was like, I'll help you because again, you
still have to pay for it. I don't have that
much money. And going into that bathroom, in that motel
hotel room and getting on my I just said, God,
(06:18):
you gonna have to fix this because I can't fix it.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I had been through a lot of my life, you know,
team pregnancy, rate, molestation, divorce, domestic violence, but I had
never been broke. I had never had zero dollars and
you got four children, right, how do you explain to
them what is happening? And that was my turning moment,
that was me going back to the basics. I knew
(06:43):
I needed a job, so I started through a tempt
service and I got hired at Republic Bank.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
During tax season. So this was, you know, January February.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I'm like, okay, and here I am at this point
in my life and I don't know what I'm doing,
don't know what to do, and I find a place right,
and somebody was like, oh, you don't.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Want to live in West Louisville.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
One of the ladies at my job, I had the
newspaper opening circling places, and she was like, you don't
want to live there. And I was like, why wouldn't
I want to live there? I don't know the city.
She was like, oh, no, that's a bad area, and
then turning found that it was not. It's just predominantly black.
And the landlord was super understanding. I told him I
had this job that was turning into a permanent job,
(07:32):
and I went from this one room motel to a
five bedroom house with my children, full basement. I was excited.
I didn't care where it was. We had housing, right.
And then my old job called me and was like,
we heard you're in town and we would like to
hire you back. Now I'm at the bank working and
(07:55):
they was like, well, we'll pay you twenty dollars an
hour and I'm going to drive from Louisville back to
my old job. And I said, are you sure, because
if I leave this job with no notice, I can't
come back because it's tim job. And they worked me
for one day and told me that they couldn't pay
(08:15):
me what they had agreed to pay me. I am
now gotten a home, fresh out of homelessness, and left
a job for a quote unquote better job, and you
all let me go on day one. So I had
to go through a lot, but I didn't go quietly,
(08:36):
so they had to end up paying me and they
had to pay me for the agreed upon time and
agreed upon amount. And I said, you know what, I'm
going to start my own business. And I started a
Facebook page called all This Fair and Love and Fashion
like all this Fair and Love War and it went viral.
It was going viral before it was viral. And I
was literally just putting together style ideas for women. I
(08:58):
wasn't selling anything. So if you ever saw the little
collages with the boots, the hat, the purse, all the
things together, but no person in it. Those things That's
what I started doing on this app called Polyboard on
my phone and it took off and somebody said you
should open a boutique.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Now.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I was like, I retail now. I don't want to
do retail and just a follower. That's why I said,
we can't do this thing along a follower. And she
said she called my house. She was like, well, I'll
hire you. I have a boutique in Atlanta. I'll hire
you to be a buyer because you have a good eye.
And we tried it for maybe two months and she
was like, no, your following is growing. You should really
(09:38):
do this. A stranger she drove her from Atlanta. We
went to Las Vegas to a show, the Magic Show
is what they call it, where all the manufacturers, all
of the products are. She taught me how to price them,
how to pick them out, all the things, and I
literally asked, I went from twenty thirteen is when I
launched a boutique. March twenty thirteen, I went from selling
(10:00):
plasma to pay bills to a six figure business in
ten months from Facebook. And when January came and I
got my ten ninety nine k from payper, I said, oh,
I'm going to jail. I said, I'm going to jail
because I ain't no way I made this much money
on the internet, and I went, got my business registered,
did all the things, made sure my taxes were in order,
(10:22):
and it changed my life. But it's coming from nothing.
All this fair love and fashion really changed my life
and my children's life because I didn't see it. I
didn't see how I was gonna get out of this
thing that I was put in. And the crazy part
is the first grant that I ever got after lunch
(10:44):
of my business, the largest grant was because I lived
in West Louisville, and had I listened to that lady
about not moving to that area, I would have never
won that grant. And I was packing the shipping everywhere
from LA to Singapore, like people were buying my stuff
just from online.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I actually, this is so crazy. You know.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
She and is one of the top retailers now. But
back then, in twenty twelve twenty thirteen, they were paying
to advertise on my page. They were paying me to
advertise on my page. And I had to make a
decision if I was going to launch my boutique and
get paid that way or get paid just for advertising
on my page and now to see them as big
(11:26):
as they are, as crazy. But that was my big,
like wide open moment, because what do you do when
you don't have anything, when you have mouths to feed?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (11:37):
And in those moments you can see grace and you
can see community and people show up because the only
reason why I found that home is because I didn't
have any other options but to hear somebody say, oh,
you don't want to live there and turn down. I
never had a problem.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
In that area.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And I went and bought a Jag after that, and
I parked that jack in the West End in front
of that house and it never got bothered. So it
is these things, these misconceptions that people have about certain
areas or certain people to certain things that I continue
to break. And that was one of those things. But
that was my wide open moment to go from nothing
(12:14):
to not even I had no idea what I was
going to do.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
There is something inside you that is so beautiful that
you don't even have to say it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I feel it.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
There's something that has made you exactly who you are
and I'm curious, did you know that was there someone
who shaped you in this way or was it life's
circumstances where you had no choice.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I knew nobody was coming to say, nobody was coming
to fix it for me.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I had to fix it.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Just even after my first marriage, I knew I had.
I made that decision, so I had to fix it right.
I made the decision because I knew going into the
marriage that I was gay. I told him that I was,
and I had to make a decision. Do I stay
in this marriage unhappy or do I leave and hurt
him in the process, even though I was honest and upfront.
(13:24):
So all the decisions we make once we're in those
things and we have to know. Some people have that
but I don't have. I didn't have anybody coming for me,
and little Rashonda knew that there's something better out there.
This is not the end for me. Something in that
motel room told me this is not the end. I
(13:44):
just have to figure out the next day. I have
to figure out the next step. The first thing is
I have a vehicle. I just need a job, so
I have to because most people don't have either, which
makes it even more difficult. So at least in my
lowest I still was privileged to have transport. So I said, oh,
I have to get a job, because.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
There you are a children are looking at you, mama,
this is we never been in a motel before, a
hotel before. What is this a matter? And even though
they were young, they knew, like, this is not us.
You're gonna have to fix it. So even though they
didn't say it, I knew I had to fix it
and nobody was coming to save me.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Just like now, no, it's something to save it us.
We're gonna have to fix it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
We're gonna have to fix it. And that's what we do,
and we do it with community.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
We do it together.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And that's why I think your story is so special
and so important because so many people out there. You
will give them the strength to not quit, to not
give up, to not feel alone. And I think that's invaluable.
And as a young thirteen year old who gets pregnant, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I say that.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'm a thirty nine year old who started adopting children
a few years ago, and it's I've done a lot
of hard shit in my life and nowhere near what
you've done. It is the hardest thing I've ever done.
Oh my god, it is the hardest thing I've ever done.
And to know you were thirteen, you're doing this alone.
(15:16):
You decide, you know, you really confront your sexuality, right, yes,
And then you decide, I'm going to go to the military.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I'm like, girl, you get what this couldn't play out?
Then you're you go to the military. I think you're
in Frankfurt, Germany, yes, and you're like, Frankfurt.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Kids, I'm now going to marry a man.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I'm now having more children. I'm going to come home
now that I'm out of that bubble, and I can
see clearly what you know. I would assume you're like,
oh fuck this this mean for me?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And here's the thing I knew then. I knew.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I told him that. I told him when he asked
me I had a girl friend. I was like, this
is not But my family was like, well, this is
just a phase, you know. And I'm nineteen, by the way,
I'm nineteen at the time, and I'm like, you don't
want to marry me, Like, it's not even because I'm gay,
it's because I'm not anybody's wife. I've been reading a Bible, sir.
(16:15):
It's a lot of instructions in there for wives, and
I don't want to do any of that. So that
is not what I want in my life. Like I literally,
and because I am so funny of being I've always
been this way, people.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Don't take me serre. But I was literally. I said
I was in second grade that I like girls.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I knew that, but who was I going to come
out to And in high school watching older gay men
come out and trans men come out and be berated,
I was like, oh no, I can't, you know. So
when I finally did to my mom at eighteen, I
was like, okay. But at thirteen, I got pregnant the
(16:54):
first time having sex. Listening to my friends, I was
a cheerleader and they were talking about that's what they
were doing.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, no, I said, it can't be.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
It hurt, it was awkward, it's clear. It's not what
they show in the movies. It's none of that. It's
not And for me to get pregnant, and my aunt
kept asking me, you know, after I missed my cycle
and my mom knew because she wore tampons and I didn't.
She was like, I haven't seen any sanitary napkins in
the trash. This is my mom, FBI agent. And I
(17:28):
was like, so I went and wrapped one up, and
that nasty little lady went in there and opened that
went through that trash and opened that pad and was like,
there's nothing in this pad. Fine, I'm pregnant.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You got me. I'm busted.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
But prior to that, my aunt asking me, asked me,
I knew why she was asking me. I didn't know,
but I knew because she kept saying, if you are,
we can fix it, you know. But she wasn't saying
and I'm thirteen, so I'm not knowing that she's talking
about abortion or whatever. She's like, we could fix it
if you are. But the door is cracked in my room.
I can see my mom sitting in her room looking
(18:02):
at me. So I kept saying, no, I'm not until
it was too late, right, So I finally said it
three months I was like, yes I am. And for
my friends, I lost all of them, right. They judged
my mom, my dad, my family. Teachers didn't want me
in the classroom pregnant. I had some teachers that really
(18:22):
did stand up for me, but it changed everything. And
my best friend her at the time. She laid in
the hospital bed with me the day I had him,
and his dad was always present, his grandmother always present,
and I lost him. He was died in a car accident.
(18:42):
My oldest son's father died in a car accident when
he was two. And then my boyfriend after that passed away.
And then my mom was like, well, maybe me and
aren't for you, Maybe you should try women. But so
I had already experienced loss early on in my life
and that probably kind of made me numb to just
you know, or I don't even save people's numbers even now.
(19:05):
People are temporary. Things are temporary, and I think it
stems from that. But being thirteen and going through that
and seeing you learn really fast who your friends are
and you have to grow up fast. And my mom
I had my son in July eighteenth and school started
back allus eighth My mom would just wrap me and
(19:25):
surround rap and put me on a girdle and was
like you have to go, Like now you have to
go even harder.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
So I didn't get six or eight weeks rest.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I got about two and a half three weeks rest,
and then it was back to school ninth grade. I
started ninth grade and I went ahead and graduated. I
graduated in the top ten of my class, and I
went to the military. I said, I have to, but
it had to be my uncles and aunts and the community.
My mom would drag that crib into her room every
(19:52):
night during the week, so I had no excuse not
to get up in the morning because the baby's on
you know, three four hours sleep schedule.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
My mom has to and she's still doing this.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Why my mom has my brother because we're ten years apart,
so I just added another child to her household. Right,
But she went so hard for me, which is why
now take care of her. I cannot not take care
of my mom, right, I cannot not. She sacrificed for
me to be where I am, and it's sad.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Now I'm getting why.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I open sea because she's in stage five dementia and
she doesn't know that I'm doing the things that she
prayed that I would be doing.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
But she helped me get there, Yeah, by not giving up.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Because a lot of my friends who got pregnant after me,
and they did not walk across that stage. Their parents
put them out. They did not graduate. I don't know
where they are, But I'm glad my mam didn't give
up on me and I didn't give up on myself.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah. I love that, and that's beautiful and I appreciate
you sharing that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
But what I will say is she knows, Yeah, she knows.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
She knows exactly what you were destined to do, and
that's why she made the sacrifices she did and believed
in you and every turn of your life. Okay, sorry, honey,
this is wide open and you're really bringing it, and
I just I'm grateful for your honesty and I'm grateful
for your story because so many people would quit and
(21:18):
that was never an option, and it was never an
option for your mother either and for your family. And
I always say it didn't happen to you, it happened
for you, yea. And you were built for this moment.
You were built for the spotlight. You were built for,
you know, being a part of people's home to bring
them joy and honesty and realness. And I imagine because
(21:42):
of the life you've walked, you have this way of
carrying yourself and you're so wise, way beyond your years.
Clearly you could be so reserved, so shut off, and
rightfully so at every turn, You've been knocked down, but
you choose joy every day, you choose laughter, you choose light,
(22:04):
And I think that is a really special gift and
you deserve this moment. You're building this beautiful boutique which
makes people happy. And I think what separates you so much?
How has your journey, how has your experiences really like
affected your children of knowing exactly who they are and
(22:28):
giving them the strength to be like, look what my
mom went through and look where she's at, Like talk
about that, talk about you know, your your family is beautiful.
You have a trand son, and you have a pan
sexual daughter, correct, and you.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Identify as gay.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So I'm curious of You've got this beautiful family that
has gone through so much. How has that, this queerness,
this identity of queerness for you shape them.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I wanted my children to have a happy parent. I
was not going to be happy masking who I was,
and that does not display freedom to them. Then they
wouldn't be able to be truly who they are. So
me being fully who I am before I even knew
them allowed them to be who they are. So when
(23:17):
my son first came out to me and I was like,
you know I'm on lesbian. I was like, okay, we'll
see it's more but all right, but I'm glad that
he did. Or my youngest. So it's my oldest and
my youngest. We call the twins the straits, but my
(23:38):
oldest and my youngest being able to and they're one
and the same, they are the I always say that
the my youngest is the untampered with version of me,
the one that I probably would have been had I
not gone through everything now because she is the epitome
(24:02):
of freedom and over sharing. Oh my lord, but I
am glad so because of that, and because of my
twins being who they are, and we were just raised
to love right. Even in the big family that I'm
talking about, my mom and her siblings, my uncles marrying
Caucasian women, and my cousins being lighter or and mixed
(24:26):
and seeing loved, seeing love in a melting pot, and
nobody is judged right. Even after divorces and things happen.
They're still family, they still show up to the family union.
We're still everything is still loved. That's how I was
raised right. Everybody goes through their things, my uncles and
(24:46):
making sure that they reaffirmed who I was, even in
my darker skin than the rest of my family. Right, Oh,
we love you, We love your full lips, we love
your not like it was all love my dad pouring
into me. So I did that to my children. We
are loving, We say I love you all through the day.
(25:06):
We give kisses, we give hugs. I broke the cycle
of because my mom can't help how she grew up. Right,
growing up in the eighties, you just can't tell your
parents how you feel.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
It's seen us talking back, or it's seen as you
don't have nothing to stress about because you don't pay bills.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
But as I got older, my mom listened, like seventeen
eighteen nineteen, but I started earlier with my children. It's
okay to have feelings. It's okay to tell me how
you feel right in a respectful manner. It's okay if
you don't like spaghetti, right, because here's the thing. We
grew up and you eat what you eat, or you
(25:48):
don't eat right. Finding out that they are not just
extensions of you like they're not.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
They are their own people.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
When you realize your children are just little people growing up,
they can be and do whatever so that's why I
go back to little Ray. One of my aunts was
a librarian. I would be in the library all the
time in my little nook reading. Reading can take you
anywhere you want to go, which is why I say,
I've never been told that I can't. That's why I
do it is that freedom in it and raising queer children.
(26:23):
I just had to say be here. I'm here to
particular if the world don't like you, fuck oh exactly okay,
because I'm here. And I was glad when I came
out to my mom and my dad that they were
just like okay, And it's nothing new because people forget
queer people have always been here.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
So I give that to my children.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Right, you are exactly who you're supposed to be, and
you are perfect just that way.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And I can imagine what those dinner table talks off
feel like, sound like. I mean, it is so beautiful
to hear that, because not everyone has that type of
coming out experience, and especially in this political climate that
(27:13):
you and I are working, yes so hard to change
for people to understand that.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Because it's simply business.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
It's just not it's not And the moment that you
tell somebody that you're gay or lesbian or trans or whatever,
then it becomes all about that, when it's simply it's not.
I am still smart, I am still funny. I'm still
doing my job. That's why I say incorporate. If you're
in corporate and.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
You're gay, you're still doing your job. Everything.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Nothing is attached to it about people automatically go to
our bedrooms. That's not where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
That's not your business, Karen.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I'm not worried about you what you and Donald are
doing in your bedroom.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Stop worrying, moment.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Stop worrying about what I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I don't understand it. When I walk into a room,
I walk in there all the things that I am.
I don't separate my blackness and my queerness and my
being a veteran and a business owner. And when I
walk in, I'm all those things. The first thing you're
going to see is that I'm a black woman. Whatever
I give you after that is you know, you find
(28:15):
that out. But when I walk in, I'm still walking
in all of those things. You treat me differently when
you start finding out who I am.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
That's the problem. Yeah, I know who I am, which.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Is also what I say all the time when we
are so quick to judge our youth trans can you
imagine being their age and knowing exactly who they fucking
are and owning it when you're in your forties.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
And fifties and still there and you still.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Don't know who the fuck you are, and you want
to judge a young child for being so brave because
they know exactly who they are.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
And then we can't tell them because remember I said,
I knew in second grade, somebody would be like, you.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Don't know anything.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
We don't listen to them because we write them off, right,
even when they're eighteen nineteen. It's like, oh, your frontal
lobe has to develop, you wait till you're twenty five.
But I knew who I was back then, and you
stifled me, even me getting married.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
My family was like, oh, it's just a phase. You
should just try to try. What you're doing is bringing
in somebody else's feelings and emotions, and I wasn't about
to play with them, which is why I was trying
to be upfront and honest. It's okay that you love me,
it's okay that you like me. What I'm trying to
tell you you want me to stuff down a part
of myself that's just not gonna go anywhere. It's just
(29:34):
gonna bubble back up, and then we're gonna be at
this crossroads. I believe that for a lot of people,
which is also why it offends them when they see us,
like you said that you were gonna do this, and
this is the life you chose.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
We chose a different path and it's okay. Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
And that's what makes us all so beautiful. Yes, right,
And I think some people need to watch your stories
for a little education. Your your your social media content
is so good. But during this does it scare you?
During this political climate with Trump in office and the
(30:16):
things that he's you know, he's been saying this for
a long time of what he plans to do, and
you know, you your family is very colorful, yes, And
what are you scared living in Kentucky in a very
very conservative place that is a red state and the
(30:37):
potential of the harm that he's going to put on
our community and personally your son?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yes, how do you feel?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Like?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
How are you coping?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I now that terrifies me, right because we just had
he came over last night and watched his clothes as
the children do, and you know, shopping your refrigerator, and
that was one of the things we talked about. We
talked about la We talked about Chicago, not so much
New York because it's cod Okay, but also Chicago is
(31:09):
but that's where my dad is. But we know, we
were like, we have to and I'm going to visit
Colorado Denver too. We have to get to a blue state.
I don't want my children's freedom restricted at all. I
set them free.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I'm so glad that the HRC brought us together.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yes, and I love that you have found your voice
and your activism for our community, for yourself, for women.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Do your kids are they proud of you?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
They look at do They look at you and they're like, damn, mom,
you're really doing it.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
They tell me that all the time. It is so
now I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It is so because I was so scared that I
just fucked them up so bad because in me finding myself,
I'm raising children right because there's no instructions. But you're
also even for me learning the things that happened to
my mom in her life and then her having me
at twenty three years old. I can see myself at
(32:10):
twenty three, even though I was married. But just imagine
you at twenty three. We was out here wilding at
twenty three, So imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And no social media, right.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
No social media and raising a child or raising children.
So I was the only child until I was ten.
And my mom, she said, I always knew I wanted
to be a mom. I always wanted to live on you.
But I look back and there were days that my
mom would come home. I'll say this. My grandmother passed
when I was five in nineteen eighty six. That means
(32:45):
that if I was five, my mom was twenty eight
losing her mom. There was a point in my mom's
life where she said that she didn't remember dressing me,
putting me on the school bus. She did those things,
but she slept most of the day. She took nerve pills,
(33:05):
she took her but she was going through something. She
lost her mom, and nothing stops. The world doesn't stop
in grief. So she's raising me through grief. She's raising
me through trauma that she's been through prior to me
getting here. She's working through all that. So I was
terrified that my children wouldn't understand, and they were like, no, Mama,
(33:26):
we're in our twenties now, we understand. We're all just
figuring this. We're all just figuring this things out, and
you have to give yourself grace. And I could only
just apologize, like I'm so sorry for whatever, and if
you need to go to counseling or about me or
talk about I found out when they were little they
(33:51):
used to have group meetings about me. Not bad, but
just how are we gonna infiltrate today? Are we gonna
send the baby nacy? Are we gonna send herry in
and ask for what we want today like they had.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
If they were smart.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
So even now being older, I'm like, I hope you
all know that I did the best that I could.
You know, everybody's grown now. My youngest is twenty one
and twins are twenty three, and my oldest is twenty nine.
So I'm like, I did it, and I hope you
all are proud. So for them to be like Mama,
we are. We understand now that you only can do
what you know, right, you only and when I learned better,
(34:26):
I did better and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, And what your experiences and the life you've walked
and led are going to make them the most incredible humans.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Because they got a front row. They got a front
row seat.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I hope so.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
And that's why I love this show so much, because
we're here to share our scars. We're here to protect
people to not walk the hardship, the hard parts of
our life. If we can talk about it and we
can help, we're more of a success than anything else
(35:04):
we've ever done. Absolutely, I'll be back in just a
moment after this brief message from our sponsors. I always
say this, there's a difference between having kids and being
a parent. Yes, there is a big fucking difference on
(35:26):
how you show up. Yes, And I love the way
you show up in Parent and I think your kids
are able to see that and when they look at
themselves like you are their superhero. You're still choosing to advocate,
You're still choosing to show up and use your voice
in your platform. And now you have this audience where
(35:47):
people are listening.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
What is that like? Is crazy? What is that like?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
On this side?
Speaker 4 (35:54):
It's crazy? It's crazy because I didn't imagine, right. I'm
going to tell you a quick story walking through Dubai
twenty twenty one, my first time going walking through the mall,
I'm just in awe because it's Dubai and I'm like,
oh my god.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
And I say out of my mouth.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I was like, I wonder what it's like to open
a boutique over here, Like what does it take exactly?
And I remember one of my friends saying, well, you
have to know somebody that already lives there, and they
have to own at least fifty one percent of your business,
all the things, and.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I was like, I'm going to open a boutique over
here one day.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
And that was in March of twenty twenty one and
May of twenty twenty one, I was contacted via Instagram
and I.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Want to say this.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
While I was in Dubai, people were sending me tiktoks
and I still wasn't on TikTok right now.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I'm behind. I was like, I'm not downloading another app.
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I'm refusing and I get back in March of twenty
twenty one, and at the end of March, I posted
my first video and I think my second video went
viral when I did rules for my Funeral or something
like that, and I was contacted by a lady who's
a teacher in Dubai, and she was like, I'm reading
(37:23):
this book called Girl on Fire by carral Alwell. Right,
she wrote Champagne die here. She's here in New York.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I love her.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
She wrote about me when she met me, about going
from homeless to six figures in her book. This lady
is in Dubai reading about my story and she's a
teacher and she's like, I want to open a boutique
over here, not knowing I had just spoken out of
my mouth it two months before, in March March April May,
(37:54):
three months before saying I wonder what to be like
because sometimes your thoughts and her dreams aren't for you,
there for you to help other people. So in doing that,
I said I'm going to start a TikTok and had
no idea that it would grow the way that they
(38:16):
did in these three years and be in these spaces
and be booked at the and working with the dream
brands that I want to work with. But to be able,
the biggest thing is walking through anywhere. It doesn't matter where.
The second time I went to do Bai, I'm on
the plane and I simply asked for water. I had
(38:37):
masks on, so it was still. So it was in
of twenty twenty one. So I've been on TikTok at
this point six months, seven months, and this lady says,
say that again, and I said, I just wanted on water.
She said, oh my god, it's you. So this was
March of twenty twenty two, so it had been a year.
And I said what she was like. My mother followed,
(39:00):
I'm about to call it right now. We're on an
Emirates flight in Dubai flying back to the States and
there's somebody that recognized me by my voice and it
has not stopped.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
So all the love, all.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
The hugs, even the flight attendants when they recognize me,
giving me my extra snacks. It is so crazy. But
also for people to say thank you, thank you for
being a voice, thank you for standing up, because who's
going to do it right, even in the political climate
we were in, They was like, thank you for sacrificing
(39:34):
your platform.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I was like, it's no sacrifice.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
When people tell you, oh, I liked you until you
got political or all the things, they don't realize that
everything we do is political, from where you live to.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Where you work to what you drive.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
All of that is dictated by politics, and you are
foolish if you don't think that it is. Everything is
political because everything, every law has to be passed in
order for something to take place, in order for it
to be what it is. And I'm not sure why
people don't understand it. So it was no sacrifice to me.
I have enjoyed it thoroughly, dragging who needs to be dressed.
(40:14):
It's standing up for those who needs to be sit
up for it because it affects us all.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
What people don't realize with this incredible gift of success
and fame comes a lot of responsibility. Oh yeah, right,
and you lived out a very public, oh my god,
very public divorce. You were married, and we share this together.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
You can have to be your wife, yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
But yeah, what the hardest part is is you.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You you build this platform, right, you build this success
where people are willing to listen. Yes, and you know,
in twenty nineteen, you get married and you start bringing
you know, your wife at the time on your TikTok,
and then you know, things happen and you get a
divorce and now you have to live this publicly which
(41:07):
is people don't understand. Once you open your life up
to the media, to success, to people following you, they
want more, they want more, they want more, they want
it all. Yes, and they're not entitled to that. But
you got on your platform and you just told it
how it was. Yes, And I respect that, and I
can take a lesson in your book. I stood in
(41:31):
my integrity because I didn't want to say anything, and
the media and tabloids went haywire because my silence was
a admission of guilt or of wrongdoing, or of all
these things that they could draw up. And I guess
that is my biggest mistake. My biggest regret is not
(41:52):
sitting in my truth because I was so fearful of
who it might hurt. Oh, yes, but it hurt me
in the process.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
See, so how does that like?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
That is my question to you, Like, what is it
like to now sit in such a famous space where
people recognize you and go through such a public separation
and divorce.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I knew that I was gonna have to say something, right,
it's social media, but also people were the major reason
that I brought up the divorce itself was because people
were asking, like, where are we sending the decorations this
year because she would decorate and it was coming up
on Halloween and we hadn't said anything, and they hadn't
(42:36):
seen her because they pay attention to everything. They pay
attention to everything. So I was like, I'm just gonna
get on here and simply say, hey, we're filing for
And this was I did.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
It twenty twenty three, right, yes, the.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Inner September, after I had filed for a divorce, I
went on there and just simply said I fout for
a divorce.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Right. I wasn't dragging.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
I didn't want to. I didn't want to do it,
but I had to do it because it had to
be done. I was like, I and I locked off.
So then it comes about that, oh she Rashonda must
have been cheating or she's had this weight loss surgery
and now she's leaving her behind. And then she went
(43:25):
on there running her mouth and I was like.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Well, okay.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Then I went to my best friend's house and I said, well,
best friend, give me a glass of wine, and I'm
gonna go live and I'm gonna say this one time
and one time only. I'm just gonna put it all
out on the table. With time stamps, dates and everything,
because I remember, and I just let it go. The
thing is, people drug me for it, just like they
(43:56):
drug you for not saying anything.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
The people that drugged me for saying something, I can't
worry about it. I never gave a damn, not one, two, three, four, five,
six damns. I couldn't worry about it. I had, which
is what I said on there. I have no problem
with a burning a bridge while I'm standing on it
to let people know that I'm not to be fucked with.
Because and I said that because I knew social media.
(44:21):
I've been on social media since twenty eleven, well before then,
but as far as being viral and people knowing me
since twenty eleven twenty twelve when I started my All
is Fair in Love and Fashion. So I knew that
with me saying something that I would be I would
get kind of burned too, and I had to be
okay with that. So once I accepted that I'm gonna
(44:42):
tell my truth, I can't help it if you believe
it or not. I'm telling you this and I'm only
repeating myself. I'm only saying it. One time, I had
to be okay with that I don't want you to
regret not saying anything. But for me, I knew I
had to, and the way I I was raised, I
just had to. I wish I had that thing that
(45:03):
Beyonce has. Well, she doesn't address anything about it. Let
you think what you want to think. But for me,
I knew our wedding was gonna say yes to the dress,
so we got married publicly. This was gonna have to
end publicly, right, and I believe that it had to
be that bad, as bad as it was to be unfixable.
(45:25):
It had to be so broken that I didn't even
want to try, and I didn't. I didn't try. I
didn't want to fix it. I didn't want it back.
I wanted it to be exactly what it was. Because
every day since then, actually I've been blessed beyond me.
Every day I wake up to another blessing. So over
three hundred and sixty five days ago, I have been
(45:46):
blessed every day since then. And I knew that it
was gonna be bad, and I had and it could
have been worse right because I had big media to
reach out to me, that wanted to interview me, but
I didn't want to drag it.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I said what I said.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
She knew exactly who I was talking to, and then
it was a rap for me in my mind because
I'm divorced that day. The moment that you bring something
to social media, it's a rap. We were never gonna
come back from it, so we might as wear air
the shit out right now. I'm not a crash out
(46:23):
person like on the internet, go crazy. I just wanted
to say my piece and be done. And then I
got the backlash about you didn't think about her son.
I said, she didn't think about her son. Everybody knows
I'm a fool. Don't fucking play with me. My children
are grown. They were like, oh, well, she doesn't care
because her children are grown. I care period, because they
(46:45):
still have feelings. They still see their mom out here
in public. But the good outweigh the bad. You can
never never focus on the negative. I'm telling you now.
I said what I said, and I logged off. I
went to bed just like any other night, did my
skincare routine, put my lip gloss on. Couldn't be bothered
(47:06):
because I don't give a damn.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I don't care.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
And then so when asks, well, that means you never
loved her, You must didn't love her. The moment that
betrayal enters something, it doesn't matter at all, And that
is my way of compartmentalizing things, maybe from trauma.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
But no, I didn't shed a tear. I did not
shed one tear.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
I felt a weight lifted up off of me, and
I walked through the door that was open, and I
couldn't worry about it. As much as I've been through,
this was a cake walk compared to what I've been through.
So I don't want you to regret not saying it
in that moment. That's what you felt. But I felt
the need to protect nobody, nobody at all. I wanted
(47:54):
to say what I needed to say in order for
me to sleep better. So now sher tern Okay.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I just appreciate the realness. And I feel that when
you say it, because once you start telling the truth,
you can't stop. I think that's the thing for me,
is one I finally acknowledge that this wasn't working, and
I started saying it out loud because we say it
internally for far too long. Yes, and we sit and
we suffer, and we do the work, and we do
(48:23):
all the things, and we do things for the kids,
and at some point you stand up and you're like, well,
what the fuck about me?
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (48:30):
What about me? Yes, you bend, you curve, you do
the cave, you do all these things. You look in
the mirror and I'm like, I look in the mirror.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I'm like, who the fuck are you?
Speaker 1 (48:39):
You've completely lost yourself.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
My best friend said that to me. She didn't say
who are you? She was like, Rishonda, I know you,
and you would have never allowed any of it, because see,
when you start compromising, like you say it, bending bending,
but takers are gonna always take. They and you don't
tell them that they are taking. You have now turned
(49:04):
them into a thief that they didn't know because you didn't.
You didn't tell the honey, So I said, I don't
tell you right now.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
It's a rap.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
We are done, we are moving. So tell me now.
What is dating like?
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Oh, it's so fun, so fun. It's a plethora of options.
The roster is just amazing.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
I'm just getting you a little juice before maybe some dates.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yes, weekend in New York.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Yes, I'm super excited to see her two. Yeah, I'm excited.
But here's the thing. I don't know if I don't know.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
You don't know what if you'll ever get married? Is
that what we're going to.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Ever get married or do anything like that again?
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Because here's the thing I always tell people, and I
think I heard Oprah say this or somebody say that,
But for me, the biggest mistakes that I've ever made
in my life have always been to a piece of people.
The first time I got married, I knew I was gay.
I got married anyway because he liked me, he loved me,
so he's asking me I might as well even though
(50:12):
you don't. That is a red flag, right there, not
a might as well marriage? And I just can't say
that I didn't like him, but I knew. And then
for her my second marriage, and on my first date,
I said I never want to be remarried again. And
I got married again even though I knew, and she
asked me in front of all of my friends.
Speaker 3 (50:34):
So what do you do?
Speaker 4 (50:35):
So, because I can do relationships, I'm good in relationships.
That's easy work. I'm faithful, I'm kind, I'm funny, that's easy.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
I don't have a problem with relationships.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
But it has to be at a point where you
love that person, you like them too, it's not just oh,
they like me, and I don't want to hurt their feelings.
And that's where I was right. Everything that I've ever
done that was a mistake was not following my intuition
and appeasing somebody else because I don't want to hurt
their feelings. So now I'm at a point where I'm like,
(51:07):
if I feel it, then maybe if I don't feel it,
I'm not going to force it or act like it's there. No,
because to spare somebody else. No, because in the end
you end up harding yourself.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Absolutely, and you lose that first Yeah, you rail everything
and everyone in the way. It's like every time I
hear Miley Cyrus, I'm like, okay, man, life run.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Well girl, I understand right now.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Understand I do too.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Until you've lived it and you're like, oh, someone rolled
the carpet for me to run a little bit. I'm
fucking sprinting. I felt like I was being chased. I
was like, I don't care who's in my way. I'm running.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Really, Oh god, I had to.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
I was like, the second I saw the light and
the sense of freedom to get.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Out, I fucking took off.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
I just ran and I didn't care who I hurt
in the process because I was so broken and damage
that I was running to save myself because I didn't
recognize who was standing in the mirror. So it's just
an interesting thing that you say. It's like you're gonna
hurt people in the process of choosing you, yes, right,
(52:24):
or you're gonna cave and you're gonna choose someone else's
joy and happiness over yourself. And how long is that
gonna last?
Speaker 3 (52:32):
My goodness, Now, I.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Won't sell my worth anymore. That's what I've learned. That
is not negotiable anymore.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
I love that. Oh you just spoke a word.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, honey, come on, cheers to that.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Cheers cheers to that.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So to end on a lighter note, I saw recently
that you went to your first sports ball game. Yes,
tell me everything, because you had me rolling. You went
to the Washington Commander's LGBTQ IA plus game, correct, which great.
(53:11):
I'm glad to see we're actually even doing that.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
I've never even heard.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Of it, I know.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
And they had T shirts. On the back of the
T shirts it says football is for everybody with a
rainbow in a football And you're right, and I'm so
glad that the Washington Commanders was able to have a
day like that. We had our owntailgating area, even though
we were in there dancing, because again, we don't know
what's happening. Most of us do not. I do know
(53:39):
when you run into the logo where the big U is,
that's a touchdown area.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
That's called the in zone.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Uh huh see.
Speaker 4 (53:47):
There's something about a two point conversion. Somebody's ponting. There's
a lot of terminology that I learned. I don't know
how to put it together. But I did have a
football purse, earrings, and necklace, which made the day better
to be coordinated with the event. But as far as
sports ball, honey, I heard something about a tight end
a wide receiver. I was like, oh, this is very
(54:09):
something's not right. But I'm glad that I was able
to be a part of that. But you know, I
learned some stuff.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
I learned what a down was down.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Okay, do you want should I take you to your
next sports ball game?
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Please?
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Do you want to go to like maybe like a
w NBA basketball game?
Speaker 3 (54:27):
You know what? That would be more of my speed.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I feel like that would be your speed.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
Yes, Okay, the indoor events, indoor with girls chic, Let's
get you court side.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Let's see honey, with that fashion. Those cameras are going
to be not worrying about the girlies on the court.
They're gonna be worrying about you.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
What is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Listen, you're my date. I'm taking.
Speaker 3 (54:47):
I will go.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
You got to come back to New York when the Liberty,
you know, because New York just won the championships. Bro,
We're out here, We're winning all the things.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Guess we're fabulous.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
We are see and I'm going to take because I
want you to learn more about the sports ball okay with.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
The girlies, Yeah, I think I know more basketball terminal.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Okay, all right, Well, thank you so much for coming
on the show.
Speaker 3 (55:12):
Thank you for having me, Thank you so.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Much for showing up in this world exactly who the
fuck you are. It is the most beautiful gift you
can give to everyone. And I'm so grateful for your
vulnerability and also this friendship that we've started. You're coming
to friends Giving, Yes, we are doing this together.
Speaker 4 (55:30):
Don't be a bad influence at friends giving too, Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
I'll try not to. We're gonna hit the Hollywood Hills together.
You're single, I'm a good wing woman.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
Oh well that's good.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
See, I'm gonna bring all of my people that are
single and ready to mingle for you. Okay, so you
better not that I worry, but you could be fly okay, fly,
but chic but comfortable.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
We're gonna have a little fire pit.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
You know, we're gonna be eating all the things.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
You just bring your happy self. The babies will be there,
so they will.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Meet Auntie a baby. They will be ripping around the
backyard thinking that this party is for them. Sloan will
probably think it's her birthday because anytime there's a gathering,
it's about her, because she's the princess.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
And we already spook about that.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
Okay, that's true. I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Thank you so much for being Thanks everyone, Thank you babe.
Thanks for tuning in everyone, and we will see you
next week.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
You can find us on.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Our producers are Carmen Borca Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones.
Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are are Jenny
(57:00):
Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm Your Host Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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