April 7, 2025 • 50 mins
Ashlyn sits down with Samantha Barry, Global Editorial Director and Editor-in-Chief of Glamour Magazine. From the highs and lows of reporting in Papua New Guinea, to secret Santa suits and embracing the vulnerability that allows us to ask the questions we need to answer, Sam and Ashlyn discuss how where you come from never really leaves you– no matter how far from home you get.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back, everyone to another.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Episode of Wide Open.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am your host, Ashlyn Harris, and our guest today
is one of my favorite humans ever, Samantha Berry.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to Wide Open.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Love this, love the setup. It's right.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I actually told the team I was like, wait till
you see.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Her walk in. She's going to be dressed to the
nines head to toe. So put together your so chic.
I'm obsessed with you.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
This is one of the days that I just wanted
to be like literally in a onesie guest me too.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I was so stressed picking out Listen, I do not
get stressed about wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Today I was stressed. No stuff, I swear I was stressed.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So for those of you who don't know Samantha, I
call her Sam is the global editorial I don't want
to get this wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Director for Glamour, which is a new it's.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
A new role because you've been you've been working for
Glamor now since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Or twenty eighteen, and that was I came in as
editor in chief Glamor in the US, and this role,
which is really exciting, is all of Glamor's so we've
Glamor in Mexico, UK, Spain, Germany and you know, working
on Global glamor.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Basically you know, I have to say what you've done
with Glamour and how you've merged this beautiful gap of
feminism and like politics, it's everything you're about, which I
love it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's a totally.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Different vibe and platform now which I want to dive
so deep into, But first I want to talk about,
like Sam and Ireland growing up as a kid, why journalism?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Why did you choose?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Which we'll dive into because you're Your path to get
to this point has been quite incredible, but seems like
far out that you would go from working at the
BBC then to CNN. You were heavily in politics and
policy and you were covering the twenty sixteen election, and
then you were like, hey, fuck it, I'm gonna go
(02:15):
be the editor in chief of Glamour.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Like hello, that is.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Absolutely insane and incredible all at the same time.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
But like what got you there? Like what's the origin story?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
It's so interesting because I think about this a lot,
like sitting here in New York and doing a job
that I absolutely love with the life that I definitely
couldn't have imagined. Like I grew up in Ireland in
the eighties, which is, you know, it's a little depressing.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I would say, if you had to describe it.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I you know, I grew up in a council house
like social housing in Ireland, with a family that was
extremely supportive. And I would say teachers in an education
system that really helped me. And I think about that
a lot. Even in the US. I think about the
people coming in and out of college like I went to.
(03:06):
There was something about Ireland in the eighties that was
a very equal opportunity place, especially no matter where you
are in the socioeconomic world, You've got a really good education.
And I still am really close with my teachers from
primary school and secondary school. And I think part of
the reason why I'm in the job that I am
(03:26):
now I loved to learn. Also, I love the news,
Like Ireland is such a place that over index like
we're storytellers. Like I love seeing all the Irish people
like you know, in Gladiator or Masters or like. But
just the reality is like if you grew up in Ireland,
like storytelling is the biggest currency that you can have,
(03:47):
whether that is like.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
In the pub or at home. Oh the pub, Yeah,
Like it's so.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I think it's just like it's definitely in in who
we are and the world that we grew up in.
And for me, that storytelling was always around the world
of news and information, and I was so fascinated with
I would get up in the morning and listened to
radio news, and we always had newspapers in the house,
and everybody sat down and watched the six o'clock news,
and I.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Knew who the anchors were. I knew who the female
journalists were.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
When I was growing up, we had an amazing journalist
called Veronica Gearin who did a lot of crime reporting.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
There was a movie made about it.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Actually the anchor at six o'clock in the evening was
a woman, and so it was very progressive. And I
never thought there wasn't a journalism job I couldn't do,
I think, and I think that with a really supportive
family and a great education systemant meant that I just didn't.
I absolutely thought beyond the confines of like balanchotic this
(04:44):
time village that I grew up in.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Now, what age were you when you're like, oh, I
actually really enjoy this. I think this is what I
want to do.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Were you in primary school? Like, what was that aha.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Moment where you said, Okay, clearly representation matters. And I
say that all the time, and you were lucky enough
to be able to see women in very successful positions.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, and the Mary Robinson, who's like icon of queen.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, but like I because we don't you know, still,
we don't have that. So it's I find that in
the US so many times, especially, I sit down with
a lot of news journalists, anchors multimedia platforms, and they're
just so destroyed in the profession, and they're sexualized, and
(05:39):
there's so many injustices in it because of clearly how
we operate in the US and our culture. It's it's
great to hear that was never a problem for you,
that was never a challenge where you were told you
can't do this, like women like you don't get these
(06:01):
type of opportunities.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I mean, there was definitely moments I think when I
started in and again you kind of push up against it.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I remember starting I did.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I did a degree in English and a master's in journalism,
and I started working in ORTI, which is like the
national broadcaster, and I started in Overnights, which I will
highly recommend anybody starting a new job or trying to
do a new profession, like do those on godly hours,
because you can make all of the mistakes, Like I
was doing the news at like three o'clock in the
morning for like four truckers, and I was mis renouncing
(06:30):
everybody's name and I was doing it wrong. But you know,
I was doing those unsociable hours and learning the craft
a little bit. But then on the daytime, they did
put me on the like I say, fluffier stories, right
because I was the young, well like maybe one of
the younger women in the newsroom where it's like I
(06:50):
would get to do the science fair with the kids
or I get I knew that that was part of
the course, but I also knew when it was time
for me to move on because I didn't want to
do those stories anymore. So you definitely, yeah, there's definitely
moments that you come up against it.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Sometimes I will say this sometimes I think, and I
say this about taking on the jab of glamor. I
say this about taking on the job at CCENN, which
I really didn't know what I was taking on at
the time, and some of the like foreign assignments that
I took on. Often a little bit of delusion and
not thinking too much about it can go a long way.
Like just jumping into things. I don't overthink things. Then
(07:29):
when I'm in it, I'm like, oh God, can I
do this? But like I think that's got me a
long way where it's like, why couldn't I do it?
Let's try it, right? I think sometimes we can be
your worst enemy and like I'm not going to try
something or do something different.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I'm just like, let's give it a go. Yeah, why not?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And I find that I'm more complex as I get older.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
When I was young, I was so bullish and I
was just like, I can do anything. Yeah, I don't
listen to what anyone says. Yeah, I have an ego
the size of this room.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, and it's probably hold on to that.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It probably made me a really great soccer player.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah exactly. And you just I think, you know, I'm
going to use an analogy. My sister's skiing with her
three kids now, and they're in Sweden, and she learned
how to ski as an adult, and her kids have
been on skis since.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
They were eight years of age. They are fearless on
that ski slope. She is going. She learned in her
thirties and she's you know, on the money still.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think holding on to some of that like childhood,
you know, attitude of why not?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And why can't I be in this room and why
can't I do this job is a really good thing
to have and tell me about.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
First Off, your sisters are amazing during the holidays. I
was seeing the videos with you and your nieces and nephews.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
First off, so yummy.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yes, thirsday you.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Walking up in a for the viewers and listeners out there,
I'm just going to put it in context. You showed
up in Sweden in a Santa costume.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, they didn't know I was coming. I've got like,
I got like, I've got Anti Sam surprises down and
I was like, how are we going? I've surprised them
a couple of times, and they were so sure I
wasn't coming this Christmas because my parents were in New
York with me. So on Christmas Day I was facetiming
my niece is my niece and nephews.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
In Sweden, and they were so sure I wasn't coming.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I got on a plane on the twenty sixth and
I landed my sister put me in a Santa suit
and I came through the back garden and it was
my shoes that gave me away.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
But yeah, I love those kids. I love being an aunt.
I think it's like so.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
I have another niece who was here as well over Christmas,
who lives in Ireland. Is such a gift to be
an ant like.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I also think you and your upbringing and being from
ire like you. And I say this all the time
to my friends. I say this all the time to
Sophia and we laugh about it because a lot of people,
people in the fashion world who have hold the jobs
you do at such a high level, are so stoic.
(10:04):
They like move like a robot and they don't really
show emotion. And what I love about you is you're
so real and you're so fun and everything. Like, of
course you're incredible at your job. I mean, you wouldn't
be in the position you're at now without being absolutely exceptional,
but like, you have a personality and it's fun and
it's infectious and it's I imagine through your work of storytelling,
(10:30):
it's probably so important to hold on to those roots
from Ireland how.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You were raised. Do you feel that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Oh, as you continue this path of being incredible at
what you do and storytelling and writing people's very vulnerable
personal moments in their life. Like I imagine that part
of that is what makes you so wonderful.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I just I feel very lucky every day. Like I
you know, you talk about if somebody told me, you know,
eight year old, nine year old, ten year old me
that I'd be doing the shop, I would just like
I wouldn't believe it. So like I remember moving to
New York and I worked at CNN at the time,
and I had gone from being a producer of television
(11:14):
news at the BBC and came to CNN to take
on a role which was like running social media and
running a team and running a bigger team than I'd
ever imagined. And I met an Irish friend and this
was before I was at Clamor and I was getting
to do like really fun kind of like flight to
Vegas for debate or whatever. And they said it like,
never lose the joy and enthusiasm that you get from
(11:40):
doing these things that you couldn't imagine. And yeah, like listen,
there's sometimes there's the grind of the job where there
will be like fashion weeks and stuff where.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It just feels like never ending.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
But I don't want to sit there and like eye
roll and be like I can't wait to get out
of here. I am so lucky to be there. I'm
so lucky to interview the people I interview. I'm so
lucky to be on like work on covers that I love,
or do women of the Year, that like, if I
ever get to the stage where I'm like.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I shouldn't be in the job, Like I shouldn't be
in the job.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
And I think there's definitely an enthusiasm for life or
a joy that I don't think it's cool to be unbothered.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I love being bothered, like I just don't think it
like i'd like.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I also think, and I've talked about this previously a
little bit, like I think we live in a world
that sometimes women's joy is devalued or dampened or it
can be seen as like I hate this term of
like basic, like I why why is the joy that
I have in I don't know, doing a Tailors of
(12:45):
Soul cycle class on a Sunday, Like why is that
less valuable than you supporting Aston Villa or on a
Sunday I don't know, right, Like so, I think we
do live in a world where sometimes like women women's
joy which can be dampant, and I just don't ever
want to be that.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I will go the opposite of that.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
And I know I'm so privileged to be in a
position where I get to do ridiculous things, like ulous
ridiculous things, and I get like dms from like Irish
girls that are in school now going oh my god,
can you send me this or I just want to
talk to you about this, and like, of course I'd
love to talk to you about whatever. And it's just
(13:24):
it's just such a joy to get to walk around
the world and do things that you love.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well. Imagine, you know, being from a place like Ireland
and being able to look at a Samberry and say,
as a child, boy or girl or however you.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Identify, I can do that. Yeah, I can be her.
I can be that successful.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like that is the whole point of why we do
what we do, is to show people the possibilities. Yeah,
it's so clear you attract beauty and I really think
what you put out in the world is what you receive.
And just like you said, I don't no one should
dim their light to make someone else feel better. And
(14:08):
I think as women, and I think you do this
a lot in your magazine, which you've done since you've
been there, is you've really adjusted what joy looks like
in fashion, what joy looks like for women, being progressive,
really telling important stories that matter, even if it could
(14:28):
be confrontational, and being vulnerable and making sure that you
do right by where you're from.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I hope you never lose it. And with that, what's
really important.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
About this podcast, which is called Wide.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Open for a reason, and now that we are breaking
the ice, and it's really important because people, I think
it's people need to know this about stories because it's
not always it's perfect, it's not always joy.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It's hard to get where you are.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's hard to be in a position of greatness and
stay there for as long as you have. So in sports,
wide open me and separating yourself from the pack, seizing
that moment to be open for an opportunity. Wide Open
in life is really being vulnerable and truthful with yourself
and really sharing your scars, which I think is an
(15:26):
important thing we all should do to help others.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Along the way.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
What was the moment in your life that split you
wide open, that changed everything for you?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Oh wow, I think one that comes to mind just
because that is so. When I was in my late twenties,
I worked in Papua New Guinea and I loved it.
And I again one of those things where it was
like I had worked in radio and Ireland, which I loved, love, love, loved,
and it was and I love this resurgence of like
(15:58):
audio and podcasts. And I started in radio and I've
always had a big love for audio and radio in general.
And I took an opportunity to go to Papa New Guinea.
I think I must have been twenty six at the
time to work for the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
And at the time pap New Guinea was it's a
very interesting place. At the time radio was king, right,
(16:20):
Literacy levels aren't the best in the country. There's eight
hundred different languages, and most people didn't have access at
the time to a.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
To television. And I went and radio was king and I.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Was working with sixteen different radio stations and I was
like loving it and it was like a total adventure
and it was you know, it was. It was such
a formative, vulnerable time for me in two major ways.
It changed the trajectory of my career. And it was
also a place that I got like held at gunpoint
(16:54):
and got parajacked.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So these two things that was that was casual.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I watch, yeah, stay tuned, We'll be right back after this.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
But okay.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So then the first thing it really did change the trajectory.
I had worked in radio on Ireland. I'd been very
excited about, like I'd done some reporting in South America,
and then I went to Papua New Guinea as a
radio journalist to work with radio stations and it was
what was it, I don't know what we're talking now,
two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine or something.
(17:33):
And at the time I arrived, dumb phones arrived to
the country at the same time. So they went from
this country that was so dependent on radio, no really
other big massive ways of communicating with each other, no TVs,
no landlines, and they went from radio to phones. And
for me, in that two years that I was there,
(17:55):
I was like working with the stations and I was
like I was on faceboo book and I was like,
let's set up Facebook pages, for all of the radio
stations because once they got a phone, they wanted to
get on the internet right, And it was again the
era of like digit sell dumb bones, where it was
rudimentary but you were able to get online. And so
the shift of what these people in this country had
(18:17):
gone from like it just it had just jumped. So
I was young, eager, excited to work, and I was like,
what started as a radio job became a social media job,
and I started a text message system for the whole
country in radio, I started, I put everybody on a
Facebook page. It started, we started, you know, changing how
(18:39):
they talked to their audience. And I remember being high
up in the Islands and at one stage I was
watching these local people coming in like putting letters outside
the radio station, and I just went out and I
bought a SIM card that night and I put it
into the into the the host chair and I said,
just call out this number a couple of times. We
(18:59):
just thing I'd done in radio on Ireland. That first
night we had hundreds of like text messages from people
and the local people who would up until that time
would be writing their requests and dropping it off at
the station. So that was for me, and you know,
it led to my job after pap New Guinea, I
was in me and mar Burmat the same for a
(19:21):
couple of like six on off for six months with
the BBC again a country that was going through traumatic
changes in media and landscape, going from radio straight like
the internet right.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Nothing like not in between.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
And what that meant it led to my job at
the CNN. Eventually I ran social media there and it
was because in those worlds in pap New Guinea and
me and Maher, I was like I saw firsthand the
impact that like social could have for journalisms, for newsrooms
in a way different scale to CNN. But that's ultimately
(19:56):
the reason why I came to CNN. It's because I
was early doctor, really interested in social media and Papua
New Guiney was a place that that had happened. Also
a place that I got carjacked and got malaria and
found myself in a bit like you know, vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Did therapy for the first time after that, as.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I don't know if you know that Freud always said
famous Freud's famously said that the Irish were im previous
to therapy or the one nation that wasn't.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
But obviously when you go through something like that, that's
the first yus first step.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
But yeah, I do think at that time and bing
G and I think about it now as well in
my forties, like I got on a plane to a
place I really didn't know for a job that I
had really not a lot of understanding of what it
would become. And it's what we talked about earlier, is
kind of holding on to that, like let's just try something.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It changed my life.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
That that job changed my life, and it changed me
as a person. And if I hadn't gone to papn
Guini would to be working in.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Radio on Ireland.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
I don't know, I don't know, but it definitely changed
the trajectory of my career and there was something extremely vulnerable,
Like I remember my sister was in Sydney at the
time with her boyfriend who is now the mother or
the father for three kids.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
So I stopped off at Sydney before.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I flew to Papa Guinea and I remember being physically
ill the morning that I was getting on the plane
because I didn't know what I was letting myself in for.
I'm really glad I did it, and it really was
really vulnerable. But and I wonder, now if I was
given that opportunity, now would I take I don't know.
I don't know the answer to that. As like we
(21:40):
talked about, you get a little bit more cautious or
a little scared.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, but that's the whole point of it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
You know. The importance here is I think greatness stems
from challenging environments. I say this as an athlete all
the time, Like I don't ever lose the title athlete
like when people were I say that often because people
are like, oh, retired athlete. That shit doesn't go away,
(22:05):
Like my mentality never goes away.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And what I have found, uh.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That seems to be what I call like the secret
sauce of people who are exceptional at their craft is
they're willing to be in uncomfortable situations. I think that's
the key, because if I'm comfortable, that's like death for me.
There's nothing like when I get comfortable, I'm like, oh fuck,
something something's off. Like I need to feel that uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Environment to learn to thrive, to.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Find new ways of belonging, acceptance, like all of these
things that life gives us. I just I like to
be challenged and I really feel that about you too,
And I mean you go from this is the craziest part,
and I want to talk about this because you're right.
You've been in radio, you've been in journalism, you're very smart.
(23:06):
You come in, you're working in New York CNN during
the two you know what is it twenty sixteen election
with which is fucking bonkers.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Bless you for doing that, and then.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You're like, oh, I'm just going to try to be
like the editor in chief of Glamour.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
What Yeah, it was a little bit you know what
tell me?
Speaker 4 (23:25):
What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It was how what?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Tell me? How did that.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Even it would become a possibility?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
You know what was interesting I when I moved I'd
always been in newsrooms, right like come up until Glamor,
And it's a different type of newsroom. It's a publisher.
And I really thrived in like minute of Dale. I'd
gone from producing television for BBC World News, which was
(23:52):
like our like you do an hour, you do the
lunchtime show.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
You used to produce John.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Sopel Show, who I'm still such a big fan of,
And but that's that's a day job, right, Like it's
like you work on a story of the day or
stories of the day, and you turn around and you've
left and you close the door. Then when I was
at CNN, it wasn't by the day, it was by
the minute, it was by the minisecond. We built these
(24:18):
teams that were reacting in real time to not only
what we were pushing out to the world, but what
we were taking in. Because I think one of the
things I'd learned in pub New Guinea and in Meanwhire
is that social had become such a place for us
to get news and get information. And what we found,
even as big of an operation as CNN was we had,
(24:39):
we ended up building an amazing social news gathering team
that could verify what was happening in places that we
couldn't get a crew too straight away that we had
content coming in.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
And so I went in in that world.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
My metabolism became like every second every I did not sleep.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Now for a lot of CNN. I'm not gonna lie.
I got shingles up this year. I like it was
I didn't know, it was like it was a lot.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
And so I ran social media for four years there,
just over four and a half years. And it was
during the twenty sixteen election, which I could not have
asked for a better introduction to the world of America
because I got to see everywhere. We went every We
went to Flint in Michigan, we went to that, like
we went everywhere, and I met every candidate. I interviewed
(25:24):
every single one of them, and we did things that
I will forever be proud of. And then I went
to then go to Glamor, and I remember my first
couple of days in and weeks honestly in Glamour and
being uncomfortable in a different way because people were coming
into my office and asking me who I should have
on the cover in eight months time, and I was like,
(25:47):
I couldn't even tell you what I want.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
For dinner, like I was so used to being, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And the last year I was at CNN, I ran
social media. In the first year of Trump's presidency, I
did not sleep like we did not like that was
just the reality of it. And then to go in
to Glamor in this different role in a world I'd
never worked in before publishing, and then I was very
lucky that I had, you know, some people with great
institution knowledge there, but they were coming into my office
(26:15):
and they were like, who do you want in the
cover in October? And I couldn't even think about using
that muscle. And it took me a long time to
get there because I was so used to using the
muscle that I had honed over years, which was.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Like of the hour of the minute.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yes, that was one of the biggest kind of I
think challenges for me at Glamour was to stop thinking
with my you know, my news metabolism and start thinking
like long term strategy and what does the next year
look like? That was I would say the biggest shift.
And also it was kind of quite fun in the process.
(26:54):
Like I I had started talking to Anna Winter about
the job, and there was loads of speculation in the
New York media about who was going to get My
name was never mentioned. Nobody had the clue who I was,
and so there was so I think when the announcement
went out, and I remember that day so vividly because
it was a coordinated you know, Candy In asked, we're
(27:17):
going to announce it at the same time that CNN
were going to announce that I was leaving, and I
was always in a nine am meeting with Jeff Soccer,
who I'm a huge fan of and I learned so
much from And then Anna was in World Trade Center
and there was just this cool I'll never forget this
coordinated day where I was sitting next to Jeff in
(27:39):
the nine am and he was telling the CNN team
and Anna was down telling the Candy team who I'm
sure we're doing frantic googles of, like who is this
Irish person that's coming and going in a car going
down the West Side Highway from Clubs Circle. I remember
that felt very I don't know, it's a it's a
(28:00):
short care journey that I'll never forget, like leaving that
like Columbus Circle Building and a team that I loved,
and to come down into this unknown world of CONDI
and a team that did first of all, didn't have
clue who I was or what I was going to
bring to the table. I was really confident that I
was the right person for the role. I wouldn't have
gone for it otherwise. But I think I think it
(28:23):
took a little convincing of other people, both internally and eternally.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I can imagine what that first few days months.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah, you know, I think it was probably like at
least eighteen months before I got anywhere near comfortable.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Like, it's not it's not like I.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Think, you know, I was confident in what I wanted
to do, But you know, no, I think it takes
a while, especially if you make that big of a change.
If I'd gone into another newsroom job, I think I
would have been like, Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
I can do this.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, or I'd gone somewhere. But like that change the
glamour was uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But was were It's such a like whiplash because that
it is so different. Yes, did you always love fashion?
Was it always a part of your journey your identity?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Did you as a young kid?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Like, how do you always those magazines?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I say, I would say, and look, if you work
at the BBC and you wear anything besides the sweater vest,
you're probably the most stylish person in there. No, Like,
it's not like you can walk around like I always
love like fashion and style and beauty in the way
that it is part of who I am, But it's
not my driving identity, right, Like it's not like I
love it, but it's not like I never saw myself
(29:34):
as like the most fashionable person. I never saw myself
as the most like beauty obsessed person or whatever. What
I loved about Glamour and even in the conversation, is
that it kind of encompasses a lot of just what
being a woman, yes, right, which is you can enjoy
these things and it doesn't need to be your main identifier.
But look, I remember, like, and it's so funny, Like
(29:56):
I remember one of the first days I.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Was in Glamor and I was doing a run through.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
And everybody will know a run through from like if
you've watched Evawere's Prada run through is like when they
bring in the racks of clothes and it's picking what's
going to be on the cover. Again, such a different
thing for me to do. I was like, give me
a news bulletin, I can do it. Is that, Like
I I was called up to the whatever floor it was,
and it was a run through for the first cover
(30:22):
where I would get to pick what was being sent
in the trunks to the shoot. I didn't have a
clue what I was doing, and I'll tell you what happened,
because like, I really.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Didn't have a clue. I remember just being like, oh
my god, what happens here? And listen.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I had a great fashion team and great. The stylist
was in there, the photographer, the creative team. These people
knew what they were doing. And I was like, Okay,
don't let on that. You really again, the only reference
you have for a run through is Devia Ware's pradat, Like,
So what happened was this is.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Literally I'm living in the movie as I'm like, this
is fucking brilliant in.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
The racks of clothes and who are we shooting?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
It wasn't even the cover. It was like an inside
shoot for the magazine. And they were like, and it
was the story and it's already been like pre pep
before I ever walked in the thing. And I started
going through the clothes and I did the only thing
I knew that I would have done anywhere else in
the world and any other thing. And I was like,
(31:26):
picked something up and I said how much is this?
And their faces just went what. I was like, how
much does this cost? And they were like, I don't know,
because I knew how much glamour women spent out. I'd
done my research. I knew how much she spent on clothes.
I knew what her like price point was. All of
the stuff I'd done in researching for the job is
(31:46):
like I kind of knew who the audience were or whatever,
and I did what I would have asked in a store,
like how much is this exactly? And it became this fun,
almost running joke, where then for the next couple of rows, Truth,
the Glamour team was the only team that came in
with a sticky note with the price of everything on it,
and so I knew, it's like, okay, let's do a
(32:08):
mix of high and low and we're gonna put ten
thousand dollars dress and let's put something that like they
can also buy the Glamor and pick up yet so
it and it became something that was it was obviously
talked about because it's it's not necessarily what people do
in a run.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Truth put the prices on them.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
That one of the guys who runs Frame, Eric heard
about it and he sent me presents that Christmas and
there was post it notes with the price on it,
and that made me laugh so much that I was like, Okay,
I get But honestly, it was a real authentic, honest
moment because I could have you know, I didn't know
(32:46):
what I was doing, So I asked the only question
I knew what to ask, which was how much is it?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, and that's a valid question. Yeah, I mean ken, Yeah,
when you know when a person like myself, who came
from absolutely nothing, I couldn't even afford the magazine. So
I would go into the local stands and flip through
them because I loved fashion as a kid, and I
would look at all of the magazines and see what
(33:13):
people were wearing and how I could make it at home,
so it I love.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
I used to do the thing where we used to
go to the local store and at the end of
the month, the magazines they hadn't sold, they cut the
cover off and throw them out, but instead of throwing
them out, they'd give them to us. Amazing, So that
was like it was I get to the end of
the month, and this was like again in Melancholic. We'd
go down, we'd know the time at the end of
the month, and they if they've cut the cover off,
it was it was already infantry that was gone. But
(33:40):
we would take the magazines without the covers up.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So good and I it's and I love that part
of you because you get it, and I think you've
brought such a humble, valuable characteristic to the magazine because
of who you are and where you come from, and
I think it's you were the first to actually was
it keep everything under like five hundred dollars or yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
My first issue was the Money Issue, and again something
I'm you know, I think women don't talk about enough,
and it was I was really proud of the Money
Issue being the first print issue, and in that we've
done these run through except for and so it became
this thing with the fashion team. I was like, nothing
in the magazine has to be more than five hundred dollars,
and we did a lot on like we started a
(34:26):
big conversation on that first issue that we continue today,
which is talking to women about money and having open
conversations about money.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
And we had a it was called can I Swear Hell?
Speaker 4 (34:40):
We really were like, well, well this is interesting because
we had this whole thing called the fuck Off Fund
and it was a call to action to women that
was really important to me, where like the first thing
you should always have as as any person, but like
it's your foot off fund. It's like three to six
months of living, so you can leave a bad job,
a bad lead, a bad relationship, and that's your that's
(35:02):
your table stakes, but I couldn't put fuck on the
cover and I got to I remember getting told so
we called it the fallback funder, the fall off.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Or the f off fund.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
But I remember having that conversation and again going oh,
because you can't put it on the cover to put
on a newsstand. But I was really proud of that
because again, it was like it felt like something And
I had people in my life that I have grown
up with that I'm very close with, and that after
we did that issue, we're like, I've started talking about
(35:33):
money in a different way. I've started having a conversation
about money in a different way, like how and even
with my girlfriends, like when we negotiate or if people
are new relationships, how did they talk about money and
values and all.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
I was really proud of that issue, and that was
again something that for me didn't like, you know, it
didn't wasn't something I was thinking about until I was
into my thirties.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, and it's really impactful, and I think not only
have you impacted it on so many layers, because I mean,
Prent was dying when you came into the pitcher. Literally,
like social media became the outlet of consuming what you
and I grew up with. We would go, I wanted magazines.
(36:21):
I couldn't every time, I couldn't wait for a new
magazine to come out, and I will never forget at
the end of my street it was called Cumberland Farms,
and I would go and I would.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Look at it.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I just wanted to touch it.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I mean I couldn't touch the clothing because I couldn't
afford it, but like to touch the magazine and see
the beauty.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
What were the magazines that you Oh.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
My gosh.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I clearly loved Vogue. Vogue was always my and then
I also really really loved National Geographic. It was one
of my you know, I wanted to be a marine
biologist as a kid, so National Geographic was always so lovely.
And then anytime a new cover came out for Time,
like all of these things, I just I love the visual.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I was a creative.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
From a very Everything I did, how I moved mattered
in the creative world. But not only was you know,
print dying, and now we're in this new digital world
that you've really I mean, that's been.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
A big part of your legacy, is you've.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I mean, that's a stressful position to be in. Like,
we could be here all day about that, because I
can't imagine how hard that must have been, because I'm
sure everyone was panicking because of social media and how
we consume social media and how quickly now people were
just moving through a click of a button and scrolling.
(37:46):
But what I love so much is how you really
diversified the people who you chose to put on covers
and what they look like, because it typically back in
the day was very very skinny, beautiful, blonde, tall models
that no one really saw themselves when you would look
(38:08):
at that. And I think what is so incredible about
the legacy you continue to leave behind is beauty comes
in all sizes. There's not what one size fits all,
and you've done such a beautiful job of that. This
is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Before our time is up, because this is a really
important thing I want to talk about, is the weight
in which being you know, the editor of Glamour and
being able to tell the stories of people with them
trusting you with very vulnerable, intimate thing, Like what is
that like for you? Do you take that like I
(39:01):
wouldn't sleep like that is the stress I would put
on myself because I know and I'll talk openly about this.
When Sophia did the cover of Glamour, it was so
raw and it was so personal and it was so
real and she was so scared and.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
She trusted you.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
What does that feel like moving through life telling the
stories of these people and some are really hard and
some are really beautiful and everything in between. How do
you move through the world having that weight on your shoulders,
knowing you're telling these stories and they trust you enough
(39:43):
because you get one shot to do it.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Yeah, it's interesting and you say the word trust because
that's really what it is.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
And for me, it's that I loved that.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Cover, by the way, and it was a lot of
conversations and it's a really example. That's Sofia cover was
really vulnerable and open, but it was a safe place.
And I think we live in a world where people
can tell their stories anywhere.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
They can tell them on their own.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Platform, they can do a substack, they can go on
like coming to glamor to a place where your story
you're telling your story with us, is you are.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Putting yourself in a vulnerable situation.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
We're also a publication and news outlet, like we have
a story to tell, and I know in that trust,
like it's also important to me that we tell the
whole story, even the parts that are hard. So I
think I'm very conscious that, and I think the whole
team at Glamor is that people feel safe when they
(40:44):
come to Glamor. But it's also not like we're not
there to tell people's.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Fluff piece stories.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
It's really about those open, vulnerable stories and goes back
to actually when we started talking about money. I remember
asking my team to start asking women on interviews on
junkets about money in general, and we had a bachelorette
contestants say, like just really openly being like, oh, I
was broke after going on that, and let me tell
you what money I spent, And it opened up this
(41:11):
whole conversation that she had with Glamour. But to your question,
I feel extreme responsibility on it, and I think people
are at their most vulnerable when they're really telling their story,
right when you're shooting somebody for a cover, when.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
They're telling it in their own words, are in an.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Interview, like that's a lot to give out to the world.
And I think we all feel the responsibility of it
and doing it justice. And we have a Glamour whether
it's Sophia's cover, which was like definitely her biggest cover
last year, or somebody coming and telling us their abortion
story or telling us their story of failure or loss
(41:50):
or joy, whatever it is, there is such I think
about that a lot, and I think about I.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Think our whole team.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Does you know when we had a meeting after the
most recent election the day after, I just said to
the team we're in.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
We are privileged. We are more privileged than a lot
of people in the world.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
We have a platform and we can use it in
a way that works for our audience and tell stories
for women. So I'm thinking about this next. I watched
so much Spider Man with my with my nephews over Christmas.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
But like the thing like you with great power.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Great responsibility, I do feel that about this glamour job.
I feel that when it is when I'm talking about
something so personal and sensitive, about somebody coming and really
telling their story to us. So yeah, I got I've
got Spider Man in my head now with yeah. But
we're great power comes great responsibilities, and it's the truth.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, and I like I.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I went to the Glamour of the Year this year
and it was so magical and it was so powerful
and highlighting the mothers who have really paved the way
for a lot of these young women to be groundbreaking musicians, actors, activists,
(43:16):
feminists all like I. This year, I sab Will, I
was twenty twenty four. I fucking sopped the whole time
I did.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
And I was trying to make people laugh this year, though,
did you there was supposed to be joy?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I mean there was.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I laughed my ass off on a few parts, like
especially the singing comedy that it was so good. But
with that, I looked over and I saw you sitting
at the table with Beyonce, my.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Best friend Beyonce. Yeah, yeah, but properly yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I mean, what the fuck, Sam, Like this is your life?
Speaker 4 (43:50):
I was like, that is yeah, there was Like I
had this one because we weren't. We didn't know until
she sat down that she was sitting down. Like we
had done that.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I had done the cover of the Moms, and I
was so excited to talk to these mothers and we
obviously invited them and all their families, but like we
had no idea. Honestly, I got off the stage.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
At the start, sat down and there was an empty
seat next to me, and I was texting Monique, who
works on my team, and I was like, why are
there's empty seats next to me? And then trying to
be all calm and just like keep it together, and
then this just vision of Beyonce comes in the back
sits down next to me, and all I'm thinking is like,
oh my god, I got to be cool, but like
somebody's got to be taking.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
A photo of this.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
I need of this. And at one stage she like
grabbed my hand while her mom was on stage and
we did a little pop and I was like, this
is just a bit.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Like that's how do you?
Speaker 4 (44:38):
That is the like when we talk about like these
moments of like just sheer like, how is this my life?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
It was so lovely and so joyful.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
And I'm bopping with Beyonce at a thing that I'm
hosting that is having people sab and like laughter and
but really it's all about celebrating women. I'm like, why
is this life?
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
It was really beautiful to see as a person who
has a very small piece of witnessing your excellence and
what you've done over your career. And I consider you
such a dear friend. You're so kind and genuine. But
when I I looked at Sofa and I was like,
look at her, like because I'm proud too, like you,
(45:23):
you still are this like humble, fucking goofy showing up
in Santa Claus outfits with your nieces and nephews. You
told me you have a heart out because you have
to go meet with Anna Wintour.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
But you're still this like.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Fucking fun goofy chick who sits next to Beyonce, And
God knows, you're still the same you, Sam, And I
think that's a beautiful thing. And I think what the
stories you tell and how impactful this journey has been.
I'm just lucky to be of like I get to
witness it, and I make.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
Me Diane's mery this interview.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
It is really special and it's so beautiful to see
because so many people in your position, they change.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
With the job they do.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
They they have to create this image of you know,
beauty and grace and chic and stoic, and it's just
fucking not you, but you do it all. It's like
so weird and it's so cool and we still laugh
about stupid shit even though you're sitting next to Beyonce
and doing stuff with Michelle Obama and like writing these
beautiful pieces that are really changing the landscape of our culture.
(46:34):
And I'm just lucky to call you a friend.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Me too.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
And also I love at the end of the night
all we were at the end of that night. My
favorite thing was we were in the elevator in the
lift and we were like, where's the food. We got
to find the food, like we'd had the best night.
And then you and me we found ourselves and my
best friend was there in the lift, just like going
we need girls, we need some burgers.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
And I'm so grateful that you even take the time
to and sit here and talk about yourself because you
have an incredible story and I think people only see
a certain side of you, and I appreciate you being
so vulnerable and wide open and thank you for being
here today, Joy, And I can't wait to continue to
follow your journey. I can't wait for more date nights
(47:18):
out in the city.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And gets a bit warmer.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Oh, I know it's brutal here, right now thanks for coming.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
You so much. I really appreciate I could talk to
you bris.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Oh yeah, I know, too bad you have a meeting
with Anna. Sorry sorry if I'm you know, small on
that scale, but I appreciate it. And good luck in
this this new role. I know you're going to do
incredible things. Everyone you know follow her on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
She is great. Yeah, Santa suits it is actually.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Lol and funny. I'm watching all the time.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
But do you have anything to share with everyone that's
up and coming? Do you are you working on any
fun projects you want to talk about?
Speaker 4 (47:56):
I would say the well, there's one thing that in
my new global role, UK Glamour is a big part
of it, and we just had an amazing win yesterday.
And so basically they've been campaigning for to criminalize deep fix,
which has been a really important thing. They've gone to
(48:16):
number ten, they've held round tables of Parliament and the
UK government have just announced that they will be criminalizing
the use of deep fakes, which we know are used
predominantly against women. So that's when in the campaign, I
think my kind of slogan for Glamour this year is
ready to fight, but powered by joy. So you're going
to see a lot of like fun content. I think
(48:38):
we're in a place this year people want fun content.
And again, Glamour's's got both right. We're ready to fight
for the criminalization of deep bakes in the UK or
paid leave and abortion in America, but we're also going
to serve up some fun wag content.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Wag week.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Oh we got the wag I mean we got so
much like our friends were dying from the I love
because I'm always like, oh, Sophiea's girlfriend, and then she
got thrown as a wag and I was like a
feld girl.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
So it was good. Lots of joy, lots of joy.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
We have a lot to celebrate, and as hard as
it might feel with the political climate for a lot
of women, we have to be in the moment and
present and grateful for the.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Things that we have, and we have all we stick together.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
We're used to rolling our sleeves up.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Honey, this is all we know exactly.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Thanks so much having me, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
I love you. Ben Wide Open with Ashland Harris is
an iHeart women's sports production. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Your Podcasts.
Our producers are Carmen Borca, Coreo Meronov, and Lucy Jones.
(50:02):
Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder and I'm Your Host Ashlyn Harris
Welcome back, everyone to another.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Episode of Wide Open.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am your host, Ashlyn Harris, and our guest today
is one of my favorite humans ever, Samantha Berry.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to Wide Open.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Love this, love the setup. It's right.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I actually told the team I was like, wait till
you see.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Her walk in. She's going to be dressed to the
nines head to toe. So put together your so chic.
I'm obsessed with you.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
This is one of the days that I just wanted
to be like literally in a onesie guest me too.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I was so stressed picking out Listen, I do not
get stressed about wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Today I was stressed. No stuff, I swear I was stressed.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So for those of you who don't know Samantha, I
call her Sam is the global editorial I don't want
to get this wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Director for Glamour, which is a new it's.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
A new role because you've been you've been working for
Glamor now since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Or twenty eighteen, and that was I came in as
editor in chief Glamor in the US, and this role,
which is really exciting, is all of Glamor's so we've
Glamor in Mexico, UK, Spain, Germany and you know, working
on Global glamor.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Basically you know, I have to say what you've done
with Glamour and how you've merged this beautiful gap of
feminism and like politics, it's everything you're about, which I
love it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's a totally.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Different vibe and platform now which I want to dive
so deep into, But first I want to talk about,
like Sam and Ireland growing up as a kid, why journalism?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Why did you choose?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Which we'll dive into because you're Your path to get
to this point has been quite incredible, but seems like
far out that you would go from working at the
BBC then to CNN. You were heavily in politics and
policy and you were covering the twenty sixteen election, and
then you were like, hey, fuck it, I'm gonna go
(02:15):
be the editor in chief of Glamour.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Like hello, that is.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Absolutely insane and incredible all at the same time.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
But like what got you there? Like what's the origin story?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
It's so interesting because I think about this a lot,
like sitting here in New York and doing a job
that I absolutely love with the life that I definitely
couldn't have imagined. Like I grew up in Ireland in
the eighties, which is, you know, it's a little depressing.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I would say, if you had to describe it.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I you know, I grew up in a council house
like social housing in Ireland, with a family that was
extremely supportive. And I would say teachers in an education
system that really helped me. And I think about that
a lot. Even in the US. I think about the
people coming in and out of college like I went to.
(03:06):
There was something about Ireland in the eighties that was
a very equal opportunity place, especially no matter where you
are in the socioeconomic world, You've got a really good education.
And I still am really close with my teachers from
primary school and secondary school. And I think part of
the reason why I'm in the job that I am
(03:26):
now I loved to learn. Also, I love the news,
Like Ireland is such a place that over index like
we're storytellers. Like I love seeing all the Irish people
like you know, in Gladiator or Masters or like. But
just the reality is like if you grew up in Ireland,
like storytelling is the biggest currency that you can have,
(03:47):
whether that is like.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
In the pub or at home. Oh the pub, Yeah,
Like it's so.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I think it's just like it's definitely in in who
we are and the world that we grew up in.
And for me, that storytelling was always around the world
of news and information, and I was so fascinated with
I would get up in the morning and listened to
radio news, and we always had newspapers in the house,
and everybody sat down and watched the six o'clock news,
and I.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Knew who the anchors were. I knew who the female
journalists were.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
When I was growing up, we had an amazing journalist
called Veronica Gearin who did a lot of crime reporting.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
There was a movie made about it.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Actually the anchor at six o'clock in the evening was
a woman, and so it was very progressive. And I
never thought there wasn't a journalism job I couldn't do,
I think, and I think that with a really supportive
family and a great education systemant meant that I just didn't.
I absolutely thought beyond the confines of like balanchotic this
(04:44):
time village that I grew up in.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Now, what age were you when you're like, oh, I
actually really enjoy this. I think this is what I
want to do.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Were you in primary school? Like, what was that aha.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Moment where you said, Okay, clearly representation matters. And I
say that all the time, and you were lucky enough
to be able to see women in very successful positions.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, and the Mary Robinson, who's like icon of queen.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, but like I because we don't you know, still,
we don't have that. So it's I find that in
the US so many times, especially, I sit down with
a lot of news journalists, anchors multimedia platforms, and they're
just so destroyed in the profession, and they're sexualized, and
(05:39):
there's so many injustices in it because of clearly how
we operate in the US and our culture. It's it's
great to hear that was never a problem for you,
that was never a challenge where you were told you
can't do this, like women like you don't get these
(06:01):
type of opportunities.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I mean, there was definitely moments I think when I
started in and again you kind of push up against it.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I remember starting I did.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I did a degree in English and a master's in journalism,
and I started working in ORTI, which is like the
national broadcaster, and I started in Overnights, which I will
highly recommend anybody starting a new job or trying to
do a new profession, like do those on godly hours,
because you can make all of the mistakes, Like I
was doing the news at like three o'clock in the
morning for like four truckers, and I was mis renouncing
(06:30):
everybody's name and I was doing it wrong. But you know,
I was doing those unsociable hours and learning the craft
a little bit. But then on the daytime, they did
put me on the like I say, fluffier stories, right
because I was the young, well like maybe one of
the younger women in the newsroom where it's like I
(06:50):
would get to do the science fair with the kids
or I get I knew that that was part of
the course, but I also knew when it was time
for me to move on because I didn't want to
do those stories anymore. So you definitely, yeah, there's definitely
moments that you come up against it.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Sometimes I will say this sometimes I think, and I
say this about taking on the jab of glamor. I
say this about taking on the job at CCENN, which
I really didn't know what I was taking on at
the time, and some of the like foreign assignments that
I took on. Often a little bit of delusion and
not thinking too much about it can go a long way.
Like just jumping into things. I don't overthink things. Then
(07:29):
when I'm in it, I'm like, oh God, can I
do this? But like I think that's got me a
long way where it's like, why couldn't I do it?
Let's try it, right? I think sometimes we can be
your worst enemy and like I'm not going to try
something or do something different.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I'm just like, let's give it a go. Yeah, why not?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And I find that I'm more complex as I get older.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
When I was young, I was so bullish and I
was just like, I can do anything. Yeah, I don't
listen to what anyone says. Yeah, I have an ego
the size of this room.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, and it's probably hold on to that.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It probably made me a really great soccer player.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah exactly. And you just I think, you know, I'm
going to use an analogy. My sister's skiing with her
three kids now, and they're in Sweden, and she learned
how to ski as an adult, and her kids have
been on skis since.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
They were eight years of age. They are fearless on
that ski slope. She is going. She learned in her
thirties and she's you know, on the money still.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think holding on to some of that like childhood,
you know, attitude of why not?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And why can't I be in this room and why
can't I do this job is a really good thing
to have and tell me about.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
First Off, your sisters are amazing during the holidays. I
was seeing the videos with you and your nieces and nephews.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
First off, so yummy.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yes, thirsday you.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Walking up in a for the viewers and listeners out there,
I'm just going to put it in context. You showed
up in Sweden in a Santa costume.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, they didn't know I was coming. I've got like,
I got like, I've got Anti Sam surprises down and
I was like, how are we going? I've surprised them
a couple of times, and they were so sure I
wasn't coming this Christmas because my parents were in New
York with me. So on Christmas Day I was facetiming
my niece is my niece and nephews.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
In Sweden, and they were so sure I wasn't coming.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I got on a plane on the twenty sixth and
I landed my sister put me in a Santa suit
and I came through the back garden and it was
my shoes that gave me away.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
But yeah, I love those kids. I love being an aunt.
I think it's like so.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
I have another niece who was here as well over Christmas,
who lives in Ireland. Is such a gift to be
an ant like.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I also think you and your upbringing and being from
ire like you. And I say this all the time
to my friends. I say this all the time to
Sophia and we laugh about it because a lot of people,
people in the fashion world who have hold the jobs
you do at such a high level, are so stoic.
(10:04):
They like move like a robot and they don't really
show emotion. And what I love about you is you're
so real and you're so fun and everything. Like, of
course you're incredible at your job. I mean, you wouldn't
be in the position you're at now without being absolutely exceptional,
but like, you have a personality and it's fun and
it's infectious and it's I imagine through your work of storytelling,
(10:30):
it's probably so important to hold on to those roots
from Ireland how.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You were raised. Do you feel that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Oh, as you continue this path of being incredible at
what you do and storytelling and writing people's very vulnerable
personal moments in their life. Like I imagine that part
of that is what makes you so wonderful.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I just I feel very lucky every day. Like I
you know, you talk about if somebody told me, you know,
eight year old, nine year old, ten year old me
that I'd be doing the shop, I would just like
I wouldn't believe it. So like I remember moving to
New York and I worked at CNN at the time,
and I had gone from being a producer of television
(11:14):
news at the BBC and came to CNN to take
on a role which was like running social media and
running a team and running a bigger team than I'd
ever imagined. And I met an Irish friend and this
was before I was at Clamor and I was getting
to do like really fun kind of like flight to
Vegas for debate or whatever. And they said it like,
never lose the joy and enthusiasm that you get from
(11:40):
doing these things that you couldn't imagine. And yeah, like listen,
there's sometimes there's the grind of the job where there
will be like fashion weeks and stuff where.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It just feels like never ending.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
But I don't want to sit there and like eye
roll and be like I can't wait to get out
of here. I am so lucky to be there. I'm
so lucky to interview the people I interview. I'm so
lucky to be on like work on covers that I love,
or do women of the Year, that like, if I
ever get to the stage where I'm like.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I shouldn't be in the job, Like I shouldn't be
in the job.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
And I think there's definitely an enthusiasm for life or
a joy that I don't think it's cool to be unbothered.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I love being bothered, like I just don't think it
like i'd like.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I also think, and I've talked about this previously a
little bit, like I think we live in a world
that sometimes women's joy is devalued or dampened or it
can be seen as like I hate this term of
like basic, like I why why is the joy that
I have in I don't know, doing a Tailors of
(12:45):
Soul cycle class on a Sunday, Like why is that
less valuable than you supporting Aston Villa or on a
Sunday I don't know, right, Like so, I think we
do live in a world where sometimes like women women's
joy which can be dampant, and I just don't ever
want to be that.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I will go the opposite of that.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
And I know I'm so privileged to be in a
position where I get to do ridiculous things, like ulous
ridiculous things, and I get like dms from like Irish
girls that are in school now going oh my god,
can you send me this or I just want to
talk to you about this, and like, of course I'd
love to talk to you about whatever. And it's just
(13:24):
it's just such a joy to get to walk around
the world and do things that you love.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well. Imagine, you know, being from a place like Ireland
and being able to look at a Samberry and say,
as a child, boy or girl or however you.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Identify, I can do that. Yeah, I can be her.
I can be that successful.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like that is the whole point of why we do
what we do, is to show people the possibilities. Yeah,
it's so clear you attract beauty and I really think
what you put out in the world is what you receive.
And just like you said, I don't no one should
dim their light to make someone else feel better. And
(14:08):
I think as women, and I think you do this
a lot in your magazine, which you've done since you've
been there, is you've really adjusted what joy looks like
in fashion, what joy looks like for women, being progressive,
really telling important stories that matter, even if it could
(14:28):
be confrontational, and being vulnerable and making sure that you
do right by where you're from.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I hope you never lose it. And with that, what's
really important.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
About this podcast, which is called Wide.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Open for a reason, and now that we are breaking
the ice, and it's really important because people, I think
it's people need to know this about stories because it's
not always it's perfect, it's not always joy.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It's hard to get where you are.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's hard to be in a position of greatness and
stay there for as long as you have. So in sports,
wide open me and separating yourself from the pack, seizing
that moment to be open for an opportunity. Wide Open
in life is really being vulnerable and truthful with yourself
and really sharing your scars, which I think is an
(15:26):
important thing we all should do to help others.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Along the way.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
What was the moment in your life that split you
wide open, that changed everything for you?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Oh wow, I think one that comes to mind just
because that is so. When I was in my late twenties,
I worked in Papua New Guinea and I loved it.
And I again one of those things where it was
like I had worked in radio and Ireland, which I loved, love, love, loved,
and it was and I love this resurgence of like
(15:58):
audio and podcasts. And I started in radio and I've
always had a big love for audio and radio in general.
And I took an opportunity to go to Papa New Guinea.
I think I must have been twenty six at the
time to work for the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
And at the time pap New Guinea was it's a
very interesting place. At the time radio was king, right,
(16:20):
Literacy levels aren't the best in the country. There's eight
hundred different languages, and most people didn't have access at
the time to a.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
To television. And I went and radio was king and I.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Was working with sixteen different radio stations and I was
like loving it and it was like a total adventure
and it was you know, it was. It was such
a formative, vulnerable time for me in two major ways.
It changed the trajectory of my career. And it was
also a place that I got like held at gunpoint
(16:54):
and got parajacked.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So these two things that was that was casual.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I watch, yeah, stay tuned, We'll be right back after this.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
But okay.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So then the first thing it really did change the trajectory.
I had worked in radio on Ireland. I'd been very
excited about, like I'd done some reporting in South America,
and then I went to Papua New Guinea as a
radio journalist to work with radio stations and it was
what was it, I don't know what we're talking now,
two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine or something.
(17:33):
And at the time I arrived, dumb phones arrived to
the country at the same time. So they went from
this country that was so dependent on radio, no really
other big massive ways of communicating with each other, no TVs,
no landlines, and they went from radio to phones. And
for me, in that two years that I was there,
(17:55):
I was like working with the stations and I was
like I was on faceboo book and I was like,
let's set up Facebook pages, for all of the radio
stations because once they got a phone, they wanted to
get on the internet right, And it was again the
era of like digit sell dumb bones, where it was
rudimentary but you were able to get online. And so
the shift of what these people in this country had
(18:17):
gone from like it just it had just jumped. So
I was young, eager, excited to work, and I was like,
what started as a radio job became a social media job,
and I started a text message system for the whole
country in radio, I started, I put everybody on a
Facebook page. It started, we started, you know, changing how
(18:39):
they talked to their audience. And I remember being high
up in the Islands and at one stage I was
watching these local people coming in like putting letters outside
the radio station, and I just went out and I
bought a SIM card that night and I put it
into the into the the host chair and I said,
just call out this number a couple of times. We
(18:59):
just thing I'd done in radio on Ireland. That first
night we had hundreds of like text messages from people
and the local people who would up until that time
would be writing their requests and dropping it off at
the station. So that was for me, and you know,
it led to my job after pap New Guinea, I
was in me and mar Burmat the same for a
(19:21):
couple of like six on off for six months with
the BBC again a country that was going through traumatic
changes in media and landscape, going from radio straight like
the internet right.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Nothing like not in between.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
And what that meant it led to my job at
the CNN. Eventually I ran social media there and it
was because in those worlds in pap New Guinea and
me and Maher, I was like I saw firsthand the
impact that like social could have for journalisms, for newsrooms
in a way different scale to CNN. But that's ultimately
(19:56):
the reason why I came to CNN. It's because I
was early doctor, really interested in social media and Papua
New Guiney was a place that that had happened. Also
a place that I got carjacked and got malaria and
found myself in a bit like you know, vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Did therapy for the first time after that, as.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I don't know if you know that Freud always said
famous Freud's famously said that the Irish were im previous
to therapy or the one nation that wasn't.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
But obviously when you go through something like that, that's
the first yus first step.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
But yeah, I do think at that time and bing
G and I think about it now as well in
my forties, like I got on a plane to a
place I really didn't know for a job that I
had really not a lot of understanding of what it
would become. And it's what we talked about earlier, is
kind of holding on to that, like let's just try something.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It changed my life.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
That that job changed my life, and it changed me
as a person. And if I hadn't gone to papn
Guini would to be working in.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Radio on Ireland.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
I don't know, I don't know, but it definitely changed
the trajectory of my career and there was something extremely vulnerable,
Like I remember my sister was in Sydney at the
time with her boyfriend who is now the mother or
the father for three kids.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
So I stopped off at Sydney before.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I flew to Papa Guinea and I remember being physically
ill the morning that I was getting on the plane
because I didn't know what I was letting myself in for.
I'm really glad I did it, and it really was
really vulnerable. But and I wonder, now if I was
given that opportunity, now would I take I don't know.
I don't know the answer to that. As like we
(21:40):
talked about, you get a little bit more cautious or
a little scared.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, but that's the whole point of it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
You know. The importance here is I think greatness stems
from challenging environments. I say this as an athlete all
the time, Like I don't ever lose the title athlete
like when people were I say that often because people
are like, oh, retired athlete. That shit doesn't go away,
(22:05):
Like my mentality never goes away.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And what I have found, uh.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That seems to be what I call like the secret
sauce of people who are exceptional at their craft is
they're willing to be in uncomfortable situations. I think that's
the key, because if I'm comfortable, that's like death for me.
There's nothing like when I get comfortable, I'm like, oh fuck,
something something's off. Like I need to feel that uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Environment to learn to thrive, to.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Find new ways of belonging, acceptance, like all of these
things that life gives us. I just I like to
be challenged and I really feel that about you too,
And I mean you go from this is the craziest part,
and I want to talk about this because you're right.
You've been in radio, you've been in journalism, you're very smart.
(23:06):
You come in, you're working in New York CNN during
the two you know what is it twenty sixteen election
with which is fucking bonkers.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Bless you for doing that, and then.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You're like, oh, I'm just going to try to be
like the editor in chief of Glamour.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
What Yeah, it was a little bit you know what
tell me?
Speaker 4 (23:25):
What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It was how what?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Tell me? How did that.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Even it would become a possibility?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
You know what was interesting I when I moved I'd
always been in newsrooms, right like come up until Glamor,
And it's a different type of newsroom. It's a publisher.
And I really thrived in like minute of Dale. I'd
gone from producing television for BBC World News, which was
(23:52):
like our like you do an hour, you do the
lunchtime show.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
You used to produce John.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Sopel Show, who I'm still such a big fan of,
And but that's that's a day job, right, Like it's
like you work on a story of the day or
stories of the day, and you turn around and you've
left and you close the door. Then when I was
at CNN, it wasn't by the day, it was by
the minute, it was by the minisecond. We built these
(24:18):
teams that were reacting in real time to not only
what we were pushing out to the world, but what
we were taking in. Because I think one of the
things I'd learned in pub New Guinea and in Meanwhire
is that social had become such a place for us
to get news and get information. And what we found,
even as big of an operation as CNN was we had,
(24:39):
we ended up building an amazing social news gathering team
that could verify what was happening in places that we
couldn't get a crew too straight away that we had
content coming in.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
And so I went in in that world.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
My metabolism became like every second every I did not sleep.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Now for a lot of CNN. I'm not gonna lie.
I got shingles up this year. I like it was
I didn't know, it was like it was a lot.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
And so I ran social media for four years there,
just over four and a half years. And it was
during the twenty sixteen election, which I could not have
asked for a better introduction to the world of America
because I got to see everywhere. We went every We
went to Flint in Michigan, we went to that, like
we went everywhere, and I met every candidate. I interviewed
(25:24):
every single one of them, and we did things that
I will forever be proud of. And then I went
to then go to Glamor, and I remember my first
couple of days in and weeks honestly in Glamour and
being uncomfortable in a different way because people were coming
into my office and asking me who I should have
on the cover in eight months time, and I was like,
(25:47):
I couldn't even tell you what I want.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
For dinner, like I was so used to being, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And the last year I was at CNN, I ran
social media. In the first year of Trump's presidency, I
did not sleep like we did not like that was
just the reality of it. And then to go in
to Glamor in this different role in a world I'd
never worked in before publishing, and then I was very
lucky that I had, you know, some people with great
institution knowledge there, but they were coming into my office
(26:15):
and they were like, who do you want in the
cover in October? And I couldn't even think about using
that muscle. And it took me a long time to
get there because I was so used to using the
muscle that I had honed over years, which was.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Like of the hour of the minute.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yes, that was one of the biggest kind of I
think challenges for me at Glamour was to stop thinking
with my you know, my news metabolism and start thinking
like long term strategy and what does the next year
look like? That was I would say the biggest shift.
And also it was kind of quite fun in the process.
(26:54):
Like I I had started talking to Anna Winter about
the job, and there was loads of speculation in the
New York media about who was going to get My
name was never mentioned. Nobody had the clue who I was,
and so there was so I think when the announcement
went out, and I remember that day so vividly because
it was a coordinated you know, Candy In asked, we're
(27:17):
going to announce it at the same time that CNN
were going to announce that I was leaving, and I
was always in a nine am meeting with Jeff Soccer,
who I'm a huge fan of and I learned so
much from And then Anna was in World Trade Center
and there was just this cool I'll never forget this
coordinated day where I was sitting next to Jeff in
(27:39):
the nine am and he was telling the CNN team
and Anna was down telling the Candy team who I'm
sure we're doing frantic googles of, like who is this
Irish person that's coming and going in a car going
down the West Side Highway from Clubs Circle. I remember
that felt very I don't know, it's a it's a
(28:00):
short care journey that I'll never forget, like leaving that
like Columbus Circle Building and a team that I loved,
and to come down into this unknown world of CONDI
and a team that did first of all, didn't have
clue who I was or what I was going to
bring to the table. I was really confident that I
was the right person for the role. I wouldn't have
gone for it otherwise. But I think I think it
(28:23):
took a little convincing of other people, both internally and eternally.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I can imagine what that first few days months.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah, you know, I think it was probably like at
least eighteen months before I got anywhere near comfortable.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Like, it's not it's not like I.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Think, you know, I was confident in what I wanted
to do, But you know, no, I think it takes
a while, especially if you make that big of a change.
If I'd gone into another newsroom job, I think I
would have been like, Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
I can do this.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, or I'd gone somewhere. But like that change the
glamour was uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But was were It's such a like whiplash because that
it is so different. Yes, did you always love fashion?
Was it always a part of your journey your identity?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Did you as a young kid?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Like, how do you always those magazines?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I say, I would say, and look, if you work
at the BBC and you wear anything besides the sweater vest,
you're probably the most stylish person in there. No, Like,
it's not like you can walk around like I always
love like fashion and style and beauty in the way
that it is part of who I am, But it's
not my driving identity, right, Like it's not like I
love it, but it's not like I never saw myself
(29:34):
as like the most fashionable person. I never saw myself
as the most like beauty obsessed person or whatever. What
I loved about Glamour and even in the conversation, is
that it kind of encompasses a lot of just what
being a woman, yes, right, which is you can enjoy
these things and it doesn't need to be your main identifier.
But look, I remember, like, and it's so funny, Like
(29:56):
I remember one of the first days I.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Was in Glamor and I was doing a run through.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
And everybody will know a run through from like if
you've watched Evawere's Prada run through is like when they
bring in the racks of clothes and it's picking what's
going to be on the cover. Again, such a different
thing for me to do. I was like, give me
a news bulletin, I can do it. Is that, Like
I I was called up to the whatever floor it was,
and it was a run through for the first cover
(30:22):
where I would get to pick what was being sent
in the trunks to the shoot. I didn't have a
clue what I was doing, and I'll tell you what happened,
because like, I really.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Didn't have a clue. I remember just being like, oh
my god, what happens here? And listen.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I had a great fashion team and great. The stylist
was in there, the photographer, the creative team. These people
knew what they were doing. And I was like, Okay,
don't let on that. You really again, the only reference
you have for a run through is Devia Ware's pradat, Like,
So what happened was this is.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Literally I'm living in the movie as I'm like, this
is fucking brilliant in.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
The racks of clothes and who are we shooting?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
It wasn't even the cover. It was like an inside
shoot for the magazine. And they were like, and it
was the story and it's already been like pre pep
before I ever walked in the thing. And I started
going through the clothes and I did the only thing
I knew that I would have done anywhere else in
the world and any other thing. And I was like,
(31:26):
picked something up and I said how much is this?
And their faces just went what. I was like, how
much does this cost? And they were like, I don't know,
because I knew how much glamour women spent out. I'd
done my research. I knew how much she spent on clothes.
I knew what her like price point was. All of
the stuff I'd done in researching for the job is
(31:46):
like I kind of knew who the audience were or whatever,
and I did what I would have asked in a store,
like how much is this exactly? And it became this fun,
almost running joke, where then for the next couple of rows, Truth,
the Glamour team was the only team that came in
with a sticky note with the price of everything on it,
and so I knew, it's like, okay, let's do a
(32:08):
mix of high and low and we're gonna put ten
thousand dollars dress and let's put something that like they
can also buy the Glamor and pick up yet so
it and it became something that was it was obviously
talked about because it's it's not necessarily what people do
in a run.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Truth put the prices on them.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
That one of the guys who runs Frame, Eric heard
about it and he sent me presents that Christmas and
there was post it notes with the price on it,
and that made me laugh so much that I was like, Okay,
I get But honestly, it was a real authentic, honest
moment because I could have you know, I didn't know
(32:46):
what I was doing, So I asked the only question
I knew what to ask, which was how much is it?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, and that's a valid question. Yeah, I mean ken, Yeah,
when you know when a person like myself, who came
from absolutely nothing, I couldn't even afford the magazine. So
I would go into the local stands and flip through
them because I loved fashion as a kid, and I
would look at all of the magazines and see what
(33:13):
people were wearing and how I could make it at home,
so it I love.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
I used to do the thing where we used to
go to the local store and at the end of
the month, the magazines they hadn't sold, they cut the
cover off and throw them out, but instead of throwing
them out, they'd give them to us. Amazing, So that
was like it was I get to the end of
the month, and this was like again in Melancholic. We'd
go down, we'd know the time at the end of
the month, and they if they've cut the cover off,
it was it was already infantry that was gone. But
(33:40):
we would take the magazines without the covers up.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So good and I it's and I love that part
of you because you get it, and I think you've
brought such a humble, valuable characteristic to the magazine because
of who you are and where you come from, and
I think it's you were the first to actually was
it keep everything under like five hundred dollars or yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
My first issue was the Money Issue, and again something
I'm you know, I think women don't talk about enough,
and it was I was really proud of the Money
Issue being the first print issue, and in that we've
done these run through except for and so it became
this thing with the fashion team. I was like, nothing
in the magazine has to be more than five hundred dollars,
and we did a lot on like we started a
(34:26):
big conversation on that first issue that we continue today,
which is talking to women about money and having open
conversations about money.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
And we had a it was called can I Swear Hell?
Speaker 4 (34:40):
We really were like, well, well this is interesting because
we had this whole thing called the fuck Off Fund
and it was a call to action to women that
was really important to me, where like the first thing
you should always have as as any person, but like
it's your foot off fund. It's like three to six
months of living, so you can leave a bad job,
a bad lead, a bad relationship, and that's your that's
(35:02):
your table stakes, but I couldn't put fuck on the
cover and I got to I remember getting told so
we called it the fallback funder, the fall off.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Or the f off fund.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
But I remember having that conversation and again going oh,
because you can't put it on the cover to put
on a newsstand. But I was really proud of that
because again, it was like it felt like something And
I had people in my life that I have grown
up with that I'm very close with, and that after
we did that issue, we're like, I've started talking about
(35:33):
money in a different way. I've started having a conversation
about money in a different way, like how and even
with my girlfriends, like when we negotiate or if people
are new relationships, how did they talk about money and
values and all.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
I was really proud of that issue, and that was
again something that for me didn't like, you know, it
didn't wasn't something I was thinking about until I was
into my thirties.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, and it's really impactful, and I think not only
have you impacted it on so many layers, because I mean,
Prent was dying when you came into the pitcher. Literally,
like social media became the outlet of consuming what you
and I grew up with. We would go, I wanted magazines.
(36:21):
I couldn't every time, I couldn't wait for a new
magazine to come out, and I will never forget at
the end of my street it was called Cumberland Farms,
and I would go and I would.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Look at it.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I just wanted to touch it.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I mean I couldn't touch the clothing because I couldn't
afford it, but like to touch the magazine and see
the beauty.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
What were the magazines that you Oh.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
My gosh.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I clearly loved Vogue. Vogue was always my and then
I also really really loved National Geographic. It was one
of my you know, I wanted to be a marine
biologist as a kid, so National Geographic was always so lovely.
And then anytime a new cover came out for Time,
like all of these things, I just I love the visual.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I was a creative.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
From a very Everything I did, how I moved mattered
in the creative world. But not only was you know,
print dying, and now we're in this new digital world
that you've really I mean, that's been.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
A big part of your legacy, is you've.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I mean, that's a stressful position to be in. Like,
we could be here all day about that, because I
can't imagine how hard that must have been, because I'm
sure everyone was panicking because of social media and how
we consume social media and how quickly now people were
just moving through a click of a button and scrolling.
(37:46):
But what I love so much is how you really
diversified the people who you chose to put on covers
and what they look like, because it typically back in
the day was very very skinny, beautiful, blonde, tall models
that no one really saw themselves when you would look
(38:08):
at that. And I think what is so incredible about
the legacy you continue to leave behind is beauty comes
in all sizes. There's not what one size fits all,
and you've done such a beautiful job of that. This
is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Before our time is up, because this is a really
important thing I want to talk about, is the weight
in which being you know, the editor of Glamour and
being able to tell the stories of people with them
trusting you with very vulnerable, intimate thing, Like what is
that like for you? Do you take that like I
(39:01):
wouldn't sleep like that is the stress I would put
on myself because I know and I'll talk openly about this.
When Sophia did the cover of Glamour, it was so
raw and it was so personal and it was so
real and she was so scared and.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
She trusted you.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
What does that feel like moving through life telling the
stories of these people and some are really hard and
some are really beautiful and everything in between. How do
you move through the world having that weight on your shoulders,
knowing you're telling these stories and they trust you enough
(39:43):
because you get one shot to do it.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Yeah, it's interesting and you say the word trust because
that's really what it is.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
And for me, it's that I loved that.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Cover, by the way, and it was a lot of
conversations and it's a really example. That's Sofia cover was
really vulnerable and open, but it was a safe place.
And I think we live in a world where people
can tell their stories anywhere.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
They can tell them on their own.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Platform, they can do a substack, they can go on
like coming to glamor to a place where your story
you're telling your story with us, is you are.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Putting yourself in a vulnerable situation.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
We're also a publication and news outlet, like we have
a story to tell, and I know in that trust,
like it's also important to me that we tell the
whole story, even the parts that are hard. So I
think I'm very conscious that, and I think the whole
team at Glamor is that people feel safe when they
(40:44):
come to Glamor. But it's also not like we're not
there to tell people's.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Fluff piece stories.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
It's really about those open, vulnerable stories and goes back
to actually when we started talking about money. I remember
asking my team to start asking women on interviews on
junkets about money in general, and we had a bachelorette
contestants say, like just really openly being like, oh, I
was broke after going on that, and let me tell
you what money I spent, And it opened up this
(41:11):
whole conversation that she had with Glamour. But to your question,
I feel extreme responsibility on it, and I think people
are at their most vulnerable when they're really telling their story,
right when you're shooting somebody for a cover, when.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
They're telling it in their own words, are in an.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Interview, like that's a lot to give out to the world.
And I think we all feel the responsibility of it
and doing it justice. And we have a Glamour whether
it's Sophia's cover, which was like definitely her biggest cover
last year, or somebody coming and telling us their abortion
story or telling us their story of failure or loss
(41:50):
or joy, whatever it is, there is such I think
about that a lot, and I think about I.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Think our whole team.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Does you know when we had a meeting after the
most recent election the day after, I just said to
the team we're in.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
We are privileged. We are more privileged than a lot
of people in the world.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
We have a platform and we can use it in
a way that works for our audience and tell stories
for women. So I'm thinking about this next. I watched
so much Spider Man with my with my nephews over Christmas.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
But like the thing like you with great power.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Great responsibility, I do feel that about this glamour job.
I feel that when it is when I'm talking about
something so personal and sensitive, about somebody coming and really
telling their story to us. So yeah, I got I've
got Spider Man in my head now with yeah. But
we're great power comes great responsibilities, and it's the truth.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, and I like I.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I went to the Glamour of the Year this year
and it was so magical and it was so powerful
and highlighting the mothers who have really paved the way
for a lot of these young women to be groundbreaking musicians, actors, activists,
(43:16):
feminists all like I. This year, I sab Will, I
was twenty twenty four. I fucking sopped the whole time
I did.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
And I was trying to make people laugh this year, though,
did you there was supposed to be joy?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I mean there was.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I laughed my ass off on a few parts, like
especially the singing comedy that it was so good. But
with that, I looked over and I saw you sitting
at the table with Beyonce, my.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Best friend Beyonce. Yeah, yeah, but properly yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I mean, what the fuck, Sam, Like this is your life?
Speaker 4 (43:50):
I was like, that is yeah, there was Like I
had this one because we weren't. We didn't know until
she sat down that she was sitting down. Like we
had done that.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I had done the cover of the Moms, and I
was so excited to talk to these mothers and we
obviously invited them and all their families, but like we
had no idea. Honestly, I got off the stage.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
At the start, sat down and there was an empty
seat next to me, and I was texting Monique, who
works on my team, and I was like, why are
there's empty seats next to me? And then trying to
be all calm and just like keep it together, and
then this just vision of Beyonce comes in the back
sits down next to me, and all I'm thinking is like,
oh my god, I got to be cool, but like
somebody's got to be taking.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
A photo of this.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
I need of this. And at one stage she like
grabbed my hand while her mom was on stage and
we did a little pop and I was like, this
is just a bit.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Like that's how do you?
Speaker 4 (44:38):
That is the like when we talk about like these
moments of like just sheer like, how is this my life?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
It was so lovely and so joyful.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
And I'm bopping with Beyonce at a thing that I'm
hosting that is having people sab and like laughter and
but really it's all about celebrating women. I'm like, why
is this life?
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
It was really beautiful to see as a person who
has a very small piece of witnessing your excellence and
what you've done over your career. And I consider you
such a dear friend. You're so kind and genuine. But
when I I looked at Sofa and I was like,
look at her, like because I'm proud too, like you,
(45:23):
you still are this like humble, fucking goofy showing up
in Santa Claus outfits with your nieces and nephews. You
told me you have a heart out because you have
to go meet with Anna Wintour.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
But you're still this like.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Fucking fun goofy chick who sits next to Beyonce, And
God knows, you're still the same you, Sam, And I
think that's a beautiful thing. And I think what the
stories you tell and how impactful this journey has been.
I'm just lucky to be of like I get to
witness it, and I make.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
Me Diane's mery this interview.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
It is really special and it's so beautiful to see
because so many people in your position, they change.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
With the job they do.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
They they have to create this image of you know,
beauty and grace and chic and stoic, and it's just
fucking not you, but you do it all. It's like
so weird and it's so cool and we still laugh
about stupid shit even though you're sitting next to Beyonce
and doing stuff with Michelle Obama and like writing these
beautiful pieces that are really changing the landscape of our culture.
(46:34):
And I'm just lucky to call you a friend.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Me too.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
And also I love at the end of the night
all we were at the end of that night. My
favorite thing was we were in the elevator in the
lift and we were like, where's the food. We got
to find the food, like we'd had the best night.
And then you and me we found ourselves and my
best friend was there in the lift, just like going
we need girls, we need some burgers.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
And I'm so grateful that you even take the time
to and sit here and talk about yourself because you
have an incredible story and I think people only see
a certain side of you, and I appreciate you being
so vulnerable and wide open and thank you for being
here today, Joy, And I can't wait to continue to
follow your journey. I can't wait for more date nights
(47:18):
out in the city.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And gets a bit warmer.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Oh, I know it's brutal here, right now thanks for coming.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
You so much. I really appreciate I could talk to
you bris.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Oh yeah, I know, too bad you have a meeting
with Anna. Sorry sorry if I'm you know, small on
that scale, but I appreciate it. And good luck in
this this new role. I know you're going to do
incredible things. Everyone you know follow her on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
She is great. Yeah, Santa suits it is actually.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Lol and funny. I'm watching all the time.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
But do you have anything to share with everyone that's
up and coming? Do you are you working on any
fun projects you want to talk about?
Speaker 4 (47:56):
I would say the well, there's one thing that in
my new global role, UK Glamour is a big part
of it, and we just had an amazing win yesterday.
And so basically they've been campaigning for to criminalize deep fix,
which has been a really important thing. They've gone to
(48:16):
number ten, they've held round tables of Parliament and the
UK government have just announced that they will be criminalizing
the use of deep fakes, which we know are used
predominantly against women. So that's when in the campaign, I
think my kind of slogan for Glamour this year is
ready to fight, but powered by joy. So you're going
to see a lot of like fun content. I think
(48:38):
we're in a place this year people want fun content.
And again, Glamour's's got both right. We're ready to fight
for the criminalization of deep bakes in the UK or
paid leave and abortion in America, but we're also going
to serve up some fun wag content.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Wag week.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Oh we got the wag I mean we got so
much like our friends were dying from the I love
because I'm always like, oh, Sophiea's girlfriend, and then she
got thrown as a wag and I was like a
feld girl.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
So it was good. Lots of joy, lots of joy.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
We have a lot to celebrate, and as hard as
it might feel with the political climate for a lot
of women, we have to be in the moment and
present and grateful for the.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Things that we have, and we have all we stick together.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
We're used to rolling our sleeves up.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Honey, this is all we know exactly.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Thanks so much having me, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
I love you. Ben Wide Open with Ashland Harris is
an iHeart women's sports production. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Your Podcasts.
Our producers are Carmen Borca, Coreo Meronov, and Lucy Jones.
(50:02):
Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder and I'm Your Host Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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