June 2, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Ashlyn sits down with internet icon Shannon Beveridge to talk about the highs and lows of growing up online. She opens up about what past relationships have taught her, how she's navigated vulnerability in the public eye, and why authentic queer representation still matters. The two talk about identity, growth, and staying grounded while sharing your life with the world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Wide
Open with Ashland Harris.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I have the wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Iconic lets me and ourself, Shannon Beverage, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you ready just to talk shit?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm ready to talk shit. Let's talk some shit.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I know a lot of people have been waiting for
us to connect and talk, and whether it's on your show,
my show, now, I'm so I'm so happy to finally
get some FaceTime with you because I've been following you for.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Literally a long time, like along.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
We've been like internet homies for like eighty six plus,
like probably like eight years.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
A long time. People always tell me I look like
you cute.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well I guess we're really cute. Well you're welcome, Thank you,
Thank you Internet.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So uh gosh, where to even start with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Because you were one of the ogs of all of this,
Like you started a YouTube channel before it was sexy.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, when it was like kind of embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
No, you were like a baby.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I was a baby. I was like nineteen. Oh my god,
my digital footprint is something that should not be studied.
Just forget I was over here. But long.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I love how you've really taken.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Queer stories and elevated them and made it so visible,
because I do think that's the whole point of what
we do right where two queer women.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Our whole goal is to be able to live life.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Through storytelling, which is a lot of times sharing our own. Yeah,
wish we would know anything about public scrutiny, would we not?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
One thing? I've never heard your.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Name come up in the media.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I've never heard yours either.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I don't know what that's so.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Talk to me about like the beginning, I would love
to know why did you decide to take that plunge.
Were you always a really creative person, like you always
knew how to edit and put your life out there?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, not really. I was like I was going to
college at Oklahoma and I was getting my finance degree,
so I was in a different headspace completely. I think
what really happened was do you know the whole story?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Hell? Yeah, I want to tell tell everyone. I mean,
everyone already knows who you are.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But I do think it's interesting to really dive into
that origin story of why you decided to dedicate your
life so openly to queer content and your story and
your dating life.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Okay, and by the way, cheersh you never like I'm
there in the morning, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Good morning. Okay. So what happened was what happened essentially.
I'm from Dallas, Texas. I fell in love with a
girl in high school. Her parents put a baby monitor
in her bedroom and then outed me to my family,
my parents, and then I was like and it was
really bad. They were very unhappy. And after that, like
(03:21):
they did nightly Bible studies with their daughter and we
weren't allowed to hang out anymore, but we were still
we were like playing sports together, so we had to
hang out with each other. And then we had this
like really intense like love of like I love you,
but we're going to hell, and I love you, but
we're going It was just very intense. And I had
boyfriends the whole time, and I was like, you know what,
this isn't She's an exception. This was like a one
(03:43):
time thing. Like I'm not gay. I'm gonna go to Oklahoma.
I'll join a sorority, I'll get my finance degree, I'll
fall in love in a frat house. It's gonna My
story is it's written in the stars. Obviously, I get
to Oklahoma, I'm like, oh my god, I'm going i
live in a house with a hundred women. My sorority house.
One hundred girls live there. I'm like, this is not
making me any more straight. Nope. So then when I
(04:05):
was there, I started to really deal with the fact
that I was like, oh my god, I'm gay, and like,
what am I going to do about this? And now
I've surrounded myself with the most like heteronormative, very religious,
like like these people that I in my brain, I
was like, they're gonna hate me. They will hate me
when they know me, and so I can't be gay
(04:25):
and I have to find someone who else who is
gay so I can talk to them about it. And
then I found the Internet. Like obviously I knew of
the internet, but I watched a YouTube video of this
girl and she was like, all the lesbians are on Tumblr,
and I was like, what's Tumblr? So I downloaded Tumblr
and kind of the rest is history. And it was
always for me. The motivation wasn't necessarily like at the
beginning queer storytelling. It was like I was consuming the
(04:49):
queer stories like I needed them myself. And then as
I was like amassing this little following on Tumblr, I
obviously started sharing my own because I knew how much
it helped me to like hear other people's so like
from the jump, my online like history has been so
open and like so vulnerable, Like you can find my
(05:10):
coming out letter I wrote to my dad on my Tumblr.
I was just like, and everyone should know this, and
like the screenshots of my sister's boyfriend at the time
when I came out to him on Tumblr, like I
was just sharing everything because I was like, this helped
me so much when I was seeing other people do it,
so I'm going to do it to help other people.
Like I was just like I felt so lonely, and
(05:30):
I was like, how can I make myself feel less lonely?
Like I have to talk to other people who are
like me. And then that just it like all kind
of the one thing like I am really proud about
my like social media stuff is it all happened very organically,
like nothing. I never forced something I wasn't like trying
to I don't know, be something I'm not like I'm
(05:51):
not when like the rise of the influencer really became
what it is now, and I would go to these
parties with these people who love to take pictures of them,
like they love to take videos, and they're like pulling
up TikTok and which is very impressive and there's no
shade to that. I'm like, but that's not I'm not
that type of influencer. Like I was in my room
in my college dorm, like taking like videos whispering to
(06:12):
the camera because my sorority sisters were gonna hear yeah,
you know. And anyway, all of it has just like
happened sort of organically over time. And then like now
having my podcasts, I think I just again I felt
like I told my story. I told all of it,
like really the stuff I think was going to help.
I was sick of talking about myself, and so with
(06:34):
the podcast, I'm like I can still kind of share
my journey as I'm growing and learning and whatever, hopefully
growing Jesus, but also give a mic to someone else
and have a story told that like I haven't heard,
because I feel like that's so important.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I always ask this question at the beginning of the show,
and you know, being wide open you played sports, it's
really seizing the moment, separating yourself from the pack, like
putting your self in a position to really execute on
the other on the other side of wide open, it's
really just being vulnerable and peeling back the layers and
(07:10):
unraveling all of these things in life that are so
hard but are so important to get us where we
are totally. And I think there is a point in
all of our lives that like split us wide open,
that change everything. Yeah, for sure, what was that moment
in your life that really split you wide open?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
It had to be the night with the baby monitor,
Like that had to be the thing. I mean, it
was that it was the first night that that girl
texted me and told me she liked me, has more
than a friend, because I think I already knew I
was queer, and I was like, I just will never
I'll just go my whole life and I'll never look
at it. I'll just pretend like it's not there. And
(07:53):
I think the second that that happened, it like changed
the whole trajectory of my life because I was like,
I can't now that I know what it feels like
to be myself, even alone in a room with one person, Like,
how am I gonna? How am I going to go
back to never feeling those feelings again. I think it's
given me the empathy to understand, like why coming out
(08:15):
and that process is so fucking hard, because mine was
so hard, Like it started so hard that I can
get that, and I'm like, oh my god, it was
so hard for me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And what was that like to be outed.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
At a time when you were discovering yourself and you
weren't ready to have that conversation.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I will say I am so lucky because my parents
handled it a lot better than her parents, And not
that they did, not that they were perfect about it,
but they they didn't make me feel like, oh my god,
they'll never love me if this is the truth about me.
But I think the thing I felt most was ashamed,
Like I was really embarrassed, like really embarrassed when you're sixteen,
(09:00):
even even what your parents know, you kissed a boy
let alone, and I didn't know what they really knew happened.
We didn't know right away that it was a baby monitor.
We just knew that they knew something. And then it
was like a week or two later she was cleaning
her room and she found a baby monitor hidden in
the corner of her room. So yeah, I think like
the biggest thing was shame, and I think that's something
(09:20):
I'm still like work through to this day, which I'm like, yeah,
it affects me. It affects me in like my sex life,
it affects me in my romantic partnerships, it affects me.
Like I'm so I can be so easily embarrassed because
all stems from like all of that from the beginning.
But yeah, I think that was the biggest thing because
(09:41):
I obviously you want to say those words to someone
when you know that you know them. And I didn't know.
I didn't know what was going on, Like I was
still figuring it out and also stuffing it down. And
then to have your parents be like you're not gay,
are you? Like I have a boyfriend? What are you
talking about? Oh?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I was doing the same thing college. I was like, oh,
I have this captain of the soccer team. And I
was like, what all these soccer girls are so cute? Yep,
And I was like, hey, roommate, can I cuddle in
your bed?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh? Yeah. I had many a beard.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So like poor guys that my grandmother always said this
to me, bless, I had like a high school sweetheart
that I knew in first grade and we dated for
so long through elementary school, through middle school, all four
years of high school. And I came out to my
grandma and she was.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like, what did that boy do to you? Oh my
good grandma.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Stop, Like it's just the best.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It doesn't work that way. I'm for little do you know.
I've just been hiding it for a long time. I
knew I moved differently, and I was like, Okay, I
don't really like dig this homeboy, but like, this is
what I'm told to do. But I felt so emotionally
safe with women. I didn't I didn't quite understand where
I kind of fit. Yeah, And no one spoke about
(11:10):
it to me. It was a very hush hush thing.
So I was like, well, fuck, I'm just gonna keep
playing soccer and shut my mouth and date these ding
dongs and until.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
My fucking life. I kissed one girl and I was like, bye, yep,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
No. Literally, when I kissed the girl for the first time,
I was like, oh my god, this is why you
guys like this. I get it. I could do that again.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I can, I can really get down with it. Yeah,
there's no going back because that was fun. I used
to kiss my college boyfriend with my eyes open. Oh
h is that a little fun fact? Does everyone know that?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I don't know if I've said that. I've probably said
that before. But I had to drink a lot to
want to kiss him, and so then I felt like
if I didn't keep my eyes open, I would get dizzy.
It was like, bad, that's pretty bad. It was so
And it was in a frat house.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hey, I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Put me in a frat or put me in a sorority,
I would have been lethal.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh my god, that would have been a fucking nightmare
for me.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I and I nothing ever happened with you, my sorority sisters.
I was so parannoyed.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Were you out?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Did every so? You were only outed here?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I outed to my mom and my dad, and then
I went to college and I didn't tell anyone. And
then yeah, and then I told my parents and my
sister my freshman year summer that I was I was like,
remember that whole situation that happened. Yeah, I'm definitely gay.
So then I went back to college, though, and I
just stayed in the closet, didn't tell anyone. My senior year,
I started kind of getting like people started figuring it out,
(12:42):
and like I was telling people, but and then it
spread and then you know, you go to a party
one night and some boy who has a crush on
he was like, I heard you're a dyke. Now I'm like, oh,
not the G word, like awesome, So people are talking
about it. So it like again kind of got outed,
but it was like my own doing. I was just
kind of like, this is stupid. I don't care as
(13:03):
much anymore. But yeah, it was like a whole process.
I wasn't really like fully out of the closet until
I graduated college. Wow, yep, because I had like two instagrams.
I had my gay Instagram and I had my Oklahoma Instagram,
And I was amassing a following on Instagram that I
just had a private but I had. I must have
had like ten thousand followers. And this was twenty fourteen
(13:27):
I graduated college. Yeah, and so then I had this
other one where all my college friends followed me. And
then like a week or two after I graduated, I
posted on my straight Instagram and said, this is hious.
Two instagrams is like one too many. And if you
guys want to you can follow me on this account.
I'm gay. And then I posted a coming out video
(13:49):
that was on YouTube to like all of my Oklahoma people,
and I'm like, take it or leave it.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Here we go. We're about to really strap in for
this one.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, really strapped in. Yeah you often?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I love this. Yeah, so you uh you finally come out.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I guess what we're both kind of known for now
is really turning these straight women?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Oh my god, I guess it's a girl.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And I liked it, Like, should we talk about that?
I mean, I would know nothing about kiss seen or
dating a girl who's never been.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
With a girl before. Yeah, we could definitely talk about that.
I think it's it's happened to me less times than
like it seems like it's happened to me a lot
of times. But it's happened a few a couple of times.
But why do you think that happens to you?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I Okay, this is the weirdest fucking part. I swear
on my life and so thinks this is so wild.
I get hit on by more men. No, I swear
to God, I get hit on by more men than women.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It is the fucking weirdest thing in the world. And
I don't know. If it's like this weird, I can
turn her type of shit. I don't know what it is,
but I get hit on way more. Which straight men.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, you're also like kind of intimidating, and I think
men like that too.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Is it the challenge the chase?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, but also men like don't believe that women who
wear makeup are gay, Like you have makeup on your
available to a.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Band, Honey, that's an uphild out on top.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It's not gonna happen. But they can try. This is
a flood zone. Any they could try. Yeah, I don't know.
My first girlfriend was like my first real girl, like
true girlfriend was a lesbian. There's an element to me
dating women who haven't dated women before that I truly
believe it stems from they don't know who I am,
(15:50):
Like they don't have this idea of who I am,
like a preconceived like notion or something, because I have
been online for so long, I have been posting for
so long. And I'm not saying every lesbian in the
United States of America knows who I am, but like,
there isn't an element of feeling known by my community
that is like icky, like I don't want you to
(16:13):
know the name of my first girlfriend, Like I don't
want you to like know.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That songs out there there's no going back. People are
right love songs about you and heartbreak. You are a heartbreaker.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I'm not trying to I swear no, I I don't know.
I mean, yeah, I think there's that. I think also
like women who look like me and you, we are
writing this like fine line of there is something masculine
about us, that there is something really feminine about us,
and I think that that's intriguing to women, like especially
women who know they are queer, Like I've never by
(16:48):
the way, on the record, I have never dated a
straight woman. Straight women don't date women. Okay, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Doesn't happen. We have to get out of talking like that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
It is so invalidating to women, Like any woman who's like,
oh you're her first girlfriend. Ooh she's straight. Oh she's
gonna go back to men, Like are we looking at
men right now? Like women want to date women, and
women not straight women. They're not straight women. Street women
date men.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
This is wide open and I'm your host. Ashlyn Harris
we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
We are so expected as women to fit into a
patriarchy and it is so much easier to do that
than as like a bisexual woman, to put yourself out
there and try something different, Like it is so scary,
I if I say this, and it's terrible, but coming
from where I came from and the time that I
grew up, if I were bisexual, I would be married
(18:03):
to a man right now, Like that would have been
the trajectory of my life. Like I am out and
doing all these things because there was this is I
was going to die, like I was going to be
a lesbian or I was going to die. That was
it for me. And I see, and it makes so
much sense why there are so many women coming out
later in life. Yes, because why And we feed this
(18:25):
storyline to people that like being queer is harder and
it's like so people are like, well, that would be
a harder life. It's not a harder life. It's a
beautiful life.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's a beautiful life.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
There are new complications, there are different things you have
to that's life in general. Yeah, but life is life.
But I'm like, it's just there are so many more
queer women and women are just so expected to stay
in one lane and then we make it this whole
thing when someone steps out of it, and it's scary.
And I would say that some of the reactions that
(18:55):
some of these women who were were straight for most
of their life and then come out later life would
be scary to like see as another straight straight woman
to want to come out, like yeah, they're scrutinized for whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You know what I mean, I'm living it. I live
I y you know, my.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Partner on a soapbox Like no, it's.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It's interesting, right, So I say this all the time.
I have such incredible conversations with like suburban moms who
live this like cute, little white picked fence life with
this husband who works, and I get I have some
like really good off the cuff out and about conversation
(19:42):
with with women who were like I like, they're not
willing to leave that life for the fear of which
the other side would bring, and they stay in this
space of complacency where they're always wishing for something different,
(20:06):
but stay in their circumstance, and I just like that
breaks my heart, Like what the fuck have we been
conditioning these poor fucking women to.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Believe well, and it's just a different You are restructuring
a life that you saw for yourself. Yes, and that
is very normal, and that is very like when that's
all that you see everywhere, it's all that you've seen
in your life, it's all that your friends have done,
it's all. It's every movie you've watched, it's every TV
(20:37):
show you see, it's every it's everywhere, it's everything. It's
all the time to do the work to deconstruct that.
It takes time and it takes a lot of effort.
And I feel for any person who goes through that
kind of situation, and like even for me being a
lesbian for as long as I have been, Like the
idea of making like having kids and however I'm going
(21:01):
to do that is extremely intimidating to me, and like
I feel there are things I have not unpacked about
how I feel about having children or like being a
mom in general. I think people take it a little
too lightly because I'm like, this is a very it's
this huge, huge thing to be a mother. So Mike,
(21:23):
I will think about it until I feel so confident
that I'm like, this is what I can do and
how I can do it and whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I don't know if people are ever really ready. I
don't think life will ever prepare you for how hard
it is to be a mom yep. And the demands
and the shit you place on yourself based on your
own trauma from childhood. It is fucking wild. It's the
(21:51):
hardest thing I've ever done. And I have adopted two children.
I don't know any different, but those are my fucking babies.
And I guess I don't know what it's like to
have a baby or a biological child, but like in
my mind and the way I show up, those babies
are mine.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I love that because it is showing.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Our community that it doesn't have to look one way.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, and it definitely doesn't, but it also should be
your decision and you should do what you can do
and show up the way you can show up, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It's really interesting the cultural.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Ideals that people place on us, Like I'll be really
honest with you, COVID hit and I lived in Florida
and a lot of adoption agencies are faith based and
a lot of my queer friends were saying, we've been
on this list for three fucking years and it is
(22:54):
painful and it is hard and it is shitty to
live in a place like this where.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
We are not the first choice. And I was like panicked.
I was like, what the fuck does that mean?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Is this going to be impossible for me based on
living in Florida yep and being a queer mom? And
I can't I don't have the same excess, Like, am
I not going to be able to do this just
based on my sexuality?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I fucking matched in three weeks.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
No way.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I was like, well, that Olympics is shot.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It was wild. That's also what people don't.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Talk about is a lot of people want a certain
type of child.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I was not.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
My ex wife and I we were not one of
those people. I was like, I feel dirty in a
way trying to pick a designer baby. I had no
idea what life was going to give me. And holy shit,
am I forever grateful to have those babies in my
life in the way that.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You know it happened?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, it was really hard, like circumstances, and they're the
greatest gift that I've ever had, and I'm so lucky
and I have to always share that because I do
think that we don't get enough.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
We have no representation. We have so little representation in
all the ways I don't know, like lesbian moms with
like twenty year old kids, like I don't know, I
don't see I don't know them, I don't see it.
I mean, it's like, is it so crazy to think
that someone would have a hard time unpacking something they've
(24:39):
never seen before. I feel that I don't have role models,
like very many role models that I look to, and
I'm like, that's the life that I am going to live,
and it's forget about kids. Which don't forget about kids.
We love the kids. But like weddings, I'm like, I
don't really have that many weddings that I've seen that
are lesbian weddings. And I'm like, and that girl would
(25:01):
be me, and that girl will be my wife.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Like I watch these.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Weddings and I'm like, it's not gonna be my wedding.
What street person could say that, what straight person does
not have a dream wedding that they're like, this is
what my wedding to look like, this is the I
love this movie and this wedding and this movie, and
I like this reception that I've seen on Instagram, and
I like this wedding dress that I've seen in Vogue
and I've seen like they ever it's everywhere for them,
(25:26):
which no good for you? For you. I'm not mad
or jealous, and I love street people, but no, but
we don't have that. No, we don't have that. And
it's like it give people a little bit of grace
when they are trying to unpack all of that with
(25:46):
no one to see and see themselves in.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Let's dive into that though, because I do think that's
a good segue the scrutiny, the pressure of being a
public facing person who has lived.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Out relations both of us, Yeah, have lived out a
lot of our shit. How does that? How has that
been for you?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yes? It is for sure hard. And I also take
responsibility for putting myself in that position because I did
it to myself in so many ways. I think the
thing for me too at this point is like it's
very unhealthy because I'm having like a hard time kind
of distinguishing my own reality and like my own feelings
and processing my own feelings and processing my own breakup
(26:27):
and not just processing like a public's reaction to it,
like and seeing and hearing their voices and like actually
trusting my own and like reminding myself like I was
in this relationship. I know what this relationship was. I know,
like and that means I'm talking about like all everything right,
but I don't know. I mean, I think for a
(26:47):
while there was like an embarrassment I was feeling where
I'm like, oh God, I never go someone again. They're
gonna be like, damn it, Channon. But then I was like,
you know what, I'm who can like, I mean, I
care who cares if I'm embarrassed? Yeah? Who cares? If
my relationships didn't work out in the grand scheme of things,
(27:07):
Like I love I'm such a lover. I could do
a little less.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But I I feel you when you say that.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I love love like I love it, and I love
this community so much, And I know and I'm like,
we have so little representation. And there have been different
motivations behind each relationship I've had and how public or
private they've been. Because every single relationship I've had, believe
(27:40):
it or not, even though I was a part of,
all of them were different. They were each very unique
to themselves. But at the very end of the day,
there is an element that I'm always attached to, which
is like creating representation. But I am now also working
through like and talking to my manager, my team and
PEP and being like, I don't have to be all
(28:04):
representation and I can't be all representation. I am also
just this one little white girl from Texas, Like, there
are so many stories that are so much more unique
and interesting and need to be heard. And believe it
or not, there's a lot more like interesting things about
me other than my love life. Yeah, exactly so, and
(28:27):
I talk about them all the time. I really am
talking about my life. But this has become such a
obviously like an interesting thing that's happened, Like who's done this? Me? You? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Do you keep anything just for yourself? Yeah for sure, Yeah,
like you definitely have. That's been my biggest learning lesson
is setting boundaries with like my my new level of
dating someone who's very in the fucking public eye. Holy shit,
(29:03):
that was like whiplash when that all became public. My
partner now is just like holy shit, Like people just
I thought entertainment was wild. The women's soccer community is
fucking bananas, Like they just won't they won't stop, and
it heavily is the queer community. We live life, you know,
(29:27):
on this fucking pedestal that we can't make mistakes, we're
not allowed to miss and this is the human experience.
Like we're not going to always get it right, but
we can't keep getting punished for it, and we can't
keep having moments of real heartache continue to carry into
(29:50):
our new relationships. And I'm curious for you because I
know this is a really hard thing for us, having
such a pub relationship with a public figure and songs
are made up about your happiness. And let's all be
very clear, Like I fucking love Fletcher, like I love
(30:12):
both of y'all.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We've been homies, yeah for a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So like I, I can understand her side of healing
because she was so in love and maybe not necessarily
always we are not in those moments equipped with the
right tools to navigate the challenges we're faced. Does that
(30:42):
still carry that breakup still carry into every single one
of your relationships because people are front row sing the
fucking lyrics to your heartbreak, Like I can imagine it's
hard to escape without having really serious boundary.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
What is that like for you?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Great question? Yes, I feel I feel that relationship has
been romanticized heavily, heavily, very heavily. Yes, I think comparison
is the thief of joy. And I think if some
if the Internet or a fan base or a group
of people like like something so much and loved something
(31:25):
so much, and it's now comparing you to this thing,
it will it will steal some joy. I am past
that relationship and that relationship is over, like and I
am but like it is over for me. It is
not over for everyone. And that means the Internet not
my ex you know. So anytime I talk about it,
(31:47):
then it perpetuates it more. And I'm like, anytime I'm
like it is over, people are like, but did you
see she took a sip of the beer right before
She's like, I can't win. Like I feel like I
doesn't matter how much I say it, And like the
end of the relationship was so public and then we
did kind of let people in and they saw these
like glimpses. I mean, I've talked about it before, but
(32:10):
like we packaged it up in the prettiest beau, in
the prettiest, loveliest beau, and she wrote wonderful, beautiful songs
about it that make it sound so pretty, and I'm like,
and in so many ways it was so pretty, but
we are also we were young, and we are done
(32:31):
and it is done, Like that story is done, and
now we have a friendship of sorts, where a healthy
type of friendship. I'm like, we're not hanging out. I
don't have I'm not like a lesbian who's gonna be
best friends with my ex girlfriends. I think that's so
complicated and weird.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, I mean, Shannon, you end up coming on fucking
podcasts with them.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I'm like, how well teach me your ways?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
No, because don't think for a second, I didn't tune
into that podcast when the Putcher came on. And then
you know, you did it your last relationship. You guys
literally broke up on you announced it on a podcast
and I'm like, how do you sit there?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
So I have to stop sitting there?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You really just sit down?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
You're like, you know what, I'm gonna just fucking air
it all out here so people stop wondering. Like people
would fall out of their skin if I had my
ex wife on this show.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Can you imagine they would? You know the thing with
Carrie and doing the podcast that truly was like a
business decision. Like I was like, we truly did kind
of bury the hatchet. And then I was launching this
podcast and like it really was, I was like, this
will perform well, and I do. I also do want
(33:54):
to just like bury that. I want everyone to see
like this is done. We are fine. But I'm an idiot, so.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
No, you're not.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
No. Like I, I make these decisions and in the
time when I do them, I think it's like, okay,
like I can this is I'd can justify this. And
then when I look back on some of the things
I've done, and I won't get into specifics of what
those things are, but some things I'm like, why did
you do that? Girl? Why did you do that? Girl?
You are a dumb, dumb girl, and stop it.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I will say this though. You nail it when you
say it's a business.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah too.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I don't think people get that.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
It's just just black and white. There's there were, there
were many motivations. Just business was one of them, and
it was yeah, I don't know. I also, I genuinely
in my stupid girl brain, was like when they see
that we are we forgive each other and we're moving on,
they will too move on. No, no, dumb girl, that's
(34:55):
not how that works. So is it good learn I'm
learning a lot all the time and clearly not learning
fast enough sometimes. And I feel, I feel some of
the things I've done have like hurt people really deeply
in ways that I regret so much, and I like,
I am trying to figure out the contribution of my
(35:19):
actions to people's pain and like learn from that. So
it's tough, Like it's tough.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's tough to live out your failures publicly, Shannon, That's
what it like comes down to, is we are all human, truthfully.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And also but I will say, I don't know. I
don't think you can waste love. Like I don't feel
like I feel like I went through breakups, my relationships
didn't work. They don't all feel like failure, you know.
I'm like, it just feels like life. And of course
(35:56):
they're like, of course you want of course you want
every person that you date to be the person that
you marry. And some kind of like there's a part
of you that that's there's an end goal that you
hope will happen, and when it doesn't happen, like there's heartbreak.
But I'm like, did it? Is it failure or is
it just life? I have to believe that I'm a
(36:16):
good person, and I need to figure out how I
can make myself believe that just alone, Like, and if
I don't, then I think I'm going to keep making
the same mistakes. And what is the definition of insanity?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Doing the same thing over and over and over again.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
And expecting a different result. Yeah, so I'm insane.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
No, you're not.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
No, but I I have a lot of I have
a lot of growing up to do, and I have
a lot of work to do on myself as a person,
and I yeah, I am aware of that, and I
am not I'm not, I know, I'm I don't know.
I also feel like there's a lot of people throwing
stones from glass houses all the time, Like, I don't
(37:03):
know anything about your life, So what have you done?
You know, stranger on the internet. I'm sure you are
also not perfect. I have to remind myself of that often.
But yeah, I think I am really trying to just
sit with myself, even though that is obviously like uncomfortable,
(37:25):
you know, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
But it's the truth with you. Yeah, it totally begins
with you.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
A lot's happened in the last ten years that I'm like, girl,
take a nap, please.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I can't. You are funny. Holy shit, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I hate that I can sit in this space and
feel your shame, and I hope that you can sit
in this space and feel my joy.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Oh that's so sweet.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Like, I hope you know that you're meant for great things. Yeah,
I do how you're deserving of it, but.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I believe I will believe that soon.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
It's a process, like heartbreak is a process. There's this
level of unraveling that is so fucking uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Recently, like I had someone I had someone like say
something about my character that like really affected me, and
I was like, oh my god. And I was like,
oh my god, it's kind I've talked about this before
about the internet too, and I'm like, there are comments
on the Internet that bother me because there's obviously some
truth to it. And I'm like, because the ones that
don't bother me, like don't affect me at all. You know,
(38:40):
when someone's like you you're gay, I'm like again, but
when someone says something and I'm not going to tell
you what it is because I know you will use
it against me. But when someone says something and I'm like, ah,
I'm like, oh shit, what is it that hurts so
bad about that? Then like how can I fix it?
Like how can I believe that I how can I
believe that that is not about me? Because like there
(39:01):
is a part of me that knows that some of
these comments. I'm like, I know that that is not true.
I know that this is a projected projection of someone else.
But I'm like, but why don't I feel that in
my soul? Like why don't I feel it in my bones?
You know? Like like someone commented saying, like you live
a sad life, and in my core, the deepest part
(39:24):
of my body, I was like, no, I don't. I
have a happy life, Like I have a joyful life.
I have an amazing family, I have amazing friends. I
love my job. I'm so lucky to do what I do,
like I have a cool car, or like I can
go through all the things that I'm like, no, I don't.
But I'm like there are other things that someone will
say about me and I'm like, oh my god, am I.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Do you find healing?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And your podcast and you show x'es and outs because
I will say I have found so much healing and
having beautiful conversations like this.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, one hundred, one hundred percent. And also it is
such a gift to speak to people who I think
the coolest thing about being gay or queer at all
is that you can meet any other queer person and
they could have they could grow up, they could be
from a different country, they could speak a different language,
(40:20):
they could have different religion, they could have different kinds
of parents, different family dynamic, they could have everything could
be different, and you have something so like beautiful in
your core that you can relate to each other on. Yeah,
And it's been such a gift to be able to
sit down and talk to people who have a different story,
a different life, a different different ages, and like feel
(40:44):
so connected to them about this one thing and also
learn something I've never learned about because I think a
huge issue in like the lesbian community, I don't know
what your experience is, but like the woli woo community is,
it's very it can become very siloed, and like its
very easy to find yourself and friend groups that are
(41:05):
all white lesbians who kind of look like you, who
are dating people that kind of look like the people
you're dating, like it happens and it and obviously there's
so much I have so much gratitude for those friends
that I've made in like those friend groups that I've had,
but they're also like huge echo chambers of just like
we all have the same experience, Like how many of
(41:26):
us were in a sorority raise your hand? Eight people? Okay,
not that relatable and not even that cool to talk about,
you know when you when you're thirty two, I'm like,
I don't really need to talk about my sorority days
as much anymore, you know. So it's just been such
a gift to talk to people who look different than me,
hang out with different people than me, and it's like
(41:47):
made me so hungry for different kinds of queer friendships too,
And I'm like, I want to be in different spaces,
I want to be around different types of people, I
want to hear different stories. So that's been huge gift.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
We'll be right back. What's next for you?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Like what.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Brings Shannon Joy?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I talk a lot on my platform about this parasocial
relationship and like people thinking I'm a character, but to
be fair, it's a double edged sword. And I also
sometimes forget that people that are following me are real people,
Like I forget for every one hundred people who comment,
there are thousands of people who enjoy my content and
just from afar like they don't they're not so engaged
(42:47):
in it. But like, I'm so excited to see those
people in real life and be like, oh my god,
you're real and you actually do like me, and like
this is some of my fears are not true and
some of my anxiety is like my own whatever, my
own shit and not your shit. So it's so excited
for that. I love people. I love I love people,
(43:09):
So I'm like, I want to just keep connecting with
people this year. I want to keep working. I want
to make my podcast better. I want to ideally show
people that there are more interesting things about me than
the people that I date, and like that I have
a lot going on that is like whatever, interesting and cool,
(43:30):
and like I want to share those things and yeah,
just keep keep doing what I'm doing to some degree,
but bigger better. I love that, and keep getting I'm
so stoked about the guests that I've been getting on
my podcast and you have to go to my box.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, I'll be coming. I want to talk sex. I'm
having the best sex of my life. Oh, let's let's
really roll our sleeves up.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Oh my god, I'm gonna start writing questions.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Oh god, it's I'm like a hops gepping a jump
away from forty and this like article just came out
that now women in their forties are having the best
sex of their life.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And I'm like, not fucking wrong. Okay, why, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
I finally know what to ask for.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Did we finally drop the rope and stop performing and
stop making relationships so fucking performative and you just finally
say this is what I want and this is what
makes me happy and not feel shame about it.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I don't know. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Maybe Okay, well we'll talk about that on my podcast.
But I cannot wait. Yeah. I'm so excited that the
guests that I'm getting it started so much like from
my own community and like just people so peripherally close
to me, and I've started to finally get to have
these conversations with people that I'm like I would have
never met you, Like there's no reason I probably would
(44:50):
have never met Margaret Chell, and I'm like, how fucking
cool that you're here in my house with your Chuawa
in my bed. I love this and I can't wait
to see like all the other guests that I'll have
this year. So I'm just I'm I want to find peace,
I want to be happy, I want to heal. I
want to believe I'm a good person. You are a
good person, and I want to believe it. So let's
(45:11):
see what happens.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I love that for you. I'm excited. I So to
wrap up, I'm going to ask you one last question.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
With x's and o's, what has been the most profound
moment in interviewing someone that really changed the way you
move in the world.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
That's so hard because they're all so good, Like there
is something that good that has come from everyone. I
think personally for me, hmm, maybe the episode I did
with Er fight Master. We talked a lot. They're so
intelligent and like so interesting, and we talked a lot
(45:54):
about like gender in ways that I was like, this
is so much more profound than the conversations I've been
having around these topics. I also think the conversation I
had with Ash Perez, who's a trans guy around just
like his transition and like all the things happening right
now with hormone replacement therapy, that was like very profound,
(46:18):
Like I think it was just I think there's so
much fear and stress and scary things going on with
like politics, and I also think that a lot of
those fears sometimes feel like they might not impact me
because like I'm not married and I'm white and I'm sis.
(46:39):
So sitting down and talking to someone, I'm like, this
is like a day in and day out potential fear
for you. It is just like it's very important to
be having those conversations so that I'm like, this work
is very very important, Like I'm not doing this for nothing.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, these stories are so impactful and so important, especially
with the current political landscape we are living.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
There is in fear.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Yeah, there is fear, and even for me, Like I'm
not saying there's no fear, but it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
We're gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
We're gonna keep elevating our queer communities and that's what
we do. Like this is not new to the community,
to roll our sleeves up and be resilient and fight
like hell for our rights. And it's it's not about
queer rights, it's about human rights. And there is no
better way to keep pushing the envelope than by telling
(47:38):
the stories of queer people.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
And you're doing that. So thank you, thank you for
being here today, thank you for your vulnerability.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Anytime to doing great. You're doing fucking great, and you
are enough.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So I'm always rooting for you. I can't wait to
get on your fucking show.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
I can't I don't wait to absolutely unravel and have
wine and probably break down and cry.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Because that's usually what I do when I talk about
my story. I'm so emo.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
It's perfect race.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
I need tissues, oka, is what I'm saying. But I'm
really proud of you. I've seen you grow a lot
over the last you know, eight to ten years, and
you keep showing up. Kid, you keep doing it, and
you keep being this beautiful soul and icon that you
are changing the landscape of queerness for not only young people,
(48:34):
but older people as well. So I'm grateful for your work.
I'm grateful for your friendship.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
I'm grateful for your friend This is I feel like you.
Just I feel a little bit better today.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
That's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, thanks for.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Coming on and tell everyone where they can actually watch.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, all my socials are at now this is Living.
My YouTube channel now, this is Living. My podcast is
called X's and O's, EXS and o S just that. Yeah,
and I'm on all social media as now this is living.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Great.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, thanks for being on Wide Open. Thank you for
another beautiful.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Conversation, and we'll see everyone next week.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Woo.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(49:43):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlan Harris
All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Wide
Open with Ashland Harris.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I have the wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Iconic lets me and ourself, Shannon Beverage, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you ready just to talk shit?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm ready to talk shit. Let's talk some shit.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I know a lot of people have been waiting for
us to connect and talk, and whether it's on your show,
my show, now, I'm so I'm so happy to finally
get some FaceTime with you because I've been following you for.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Literally a long time, like along.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
We've been like internet homies for like eighty six plus,
like probably like eight years.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
A long time. People always tell me I look like
you cute.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well I guess we're really cute. Well you're welcome, Thank you,
Thank you Internet.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So uh gosh, where to even start with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Because you were one of the ogs of all of this,
Like you started a YouTube channel before it was sexy.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, when it was like kind of embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
No, you were like a baby.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I was a baby. I was like nineteen. Oh my god,
my digital footprint is something that should not be studied.
Just forget I was over here. But long.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I love how you've really taken.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Queer stories and elevated them and made it so visible,
because I do think that's the whole point of what
we do right where two queer women.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Our whole goal is to be able to live life.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Through storytelling, which is a lot of times sharing our own. Yeah,
wish we would know anything about public scrutiny, would we not?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
One thing? I've never heard your.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Name come up in the media.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I've never heard yours either.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I don't know what that's so.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Talk to me about like the beginning, I would love
to know why did you decide to take that plunge.
Were you always a really creative person, like you always
knew how to edit and put your life out there?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, not really. I was like I was going to
college at Oklahoma and I was getting my finance degree,
so I was in a different headspace completely. I think
what really happened was do you know the whole story?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Hell? Yeah, I want to tell tell everyone. I mean,
everyone already knows who you are.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But I do think it's interesting to really dive into
that origin story of why you decided to dedicate your
life so openly to queer content and your story and
your dating life.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Okay, and by the way, cheersh you never like I'm
there in the morning, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Good morning. Okay. So what happened was what happened essentially.
I'm from Dallas, Texas. I fell in love with a
girl in high school. Her parents put a baby monitor
in her bedroom and then outed me to my family,
my parents, and then I was like and it was
really bad. They were very unhappy. And after that, like
(03:21):
they did nightly Bible studies with their daughter and we
weren't allowed to hang out anymore, but we were still
we were like playing sports together, so we had to
hang out with each other. And then we had this
like really intense like love of like I love you,
but we're going to hell, and I love you, but
we're going It was just very intense. And I had
boyfriends the whole time, and I was like, you know what,
this isn't She's an exception. This was like a one
(03:43):
time thing. Like I'm not gay. I'm gonna go to Oklahoma.
I'll join a sorority, I'll get my finance degree, I'll
fall in love in a frat house. It's gonna My
story is it's written in the stars. Obviously, I get
to Oklahoma, I'm like, oh my god, I'm going i
live in a house with a hundred women. My sorority house.
One hundred girls live there. I'm like, this is not
making me any more straight. Nope. So then when I
(04:05):
was there, I started to really deal with the fact
that I was like, oh my god, I'm gay, and like,
what am I going to do about this? And now
I've surrounded myself with the most like heteronormative, very religious,
like like these people that I in my brain, I
was like, they're gonna hate me. They will hate me
when they know me, and so I can't be gay
(04:25):
and I have to find someone who else who is
gay so I can talk to them about it. And
then I found the Internet. Like obviously I knew of
the internet, but I watched a YouTube video of this
girl and she was like, all the lesbians are on Tumblr,
and I was like, what's Tumblr? So I downloaded Tumblr
and kind of the rest is history. And it was
always for me. The motivation wasn't necessarily like at the
beginning queer storytelling. It was like I was consuming the
(04:49):
queer stories like I needed them myself. And then as
I was like amassing this little following on Tumblr, I
obviously started sharing my own because I knew how much
it helped me to like hear other people's so like
from the jump, my online like history has been so
open and like so vulnerable, Like you can find my
(05:10):
coming out letter I wrote to my dad on my Tumblr.
I was just like, and everyone should know this, and
like the screenshots of my sister's boyfriend at the time
when I came out to him on Tumblr, like I
was just sharing everything because I was like, this helped
me so much when I was seeing other people do it,
so I'm going to do it to help other people.
Like I was just like I felt so lonely, and
(05:30):
I was like, how can I make myself feel less lonely?
Like I have to talk to other people who are
like me. And then that just it like all kind
of the one thing like I am really proud about
my like social media stuff is it all happened very organically,
like nothing. I never forced something I wasn't like trying
to I don't know, be something I'm not like I'm
(05:51):
not when like the rise of the influencer really became
what it is now, and I would go to these
parties with these people who love to take pictures of them,
like they love to take videos, and they're like pulling
up TikTok and which is very impressive and there's no
shade to that. I'm like, but that's not I'm not
that type of influencer. Like I was in my room
in my college dorm, like taking like videos whispering to
(06:12):
the camera because my sorority sisters were gonna hear yeah,
you know. And anyway, all of it has just like
happened sort of organically over time. And then like now
having my podcasts, I think I just again I felt
like I told my story. I told all of it,
like really the stuff I think was going to help.
I was sick of talking about myself, and so with
(06:34):
the podcast, I'm like I can still kind of share
my journey as I'm growing and learning and whatever, hopefully
growing Jesus, but also give a mic to someone else
and have a story told that like I haven't heard,
because I feel like that's so important.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I always ask this question at the beginning of the show,
and you know, being wide open you played sports, it's
really seizing the moment, separating yourself from the pack, like
putting your self in a position to really execute on
the other on the other side of wide open, it's
really just being vulnerable and peeling back the layers and
(07:10):
unraveling all of these things in life that are so
hard but are so important to get us where we
are totally. And I think there is a point in
all of our lives that like split us wide open,
that change everything. Yeah, for sure, what was that moment
in your life that really split you wide open?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
It had to be the night with the baby monitor,
Like that had to be the thing. I mean, it
was that it was the first night that that girl
texted me and told me she liked me, has more
than a friend, because I think I already knew I
was queer, and I was like, I just will never
I'll just go my whole life and I'll never look
at it. I'll just pretend like it's not there. And
(07:53):
I think the second that that happened, it like changed
the whole trajectory of my life because I was like,
I can't now that I know what it feels like
to be myself, even alone in a room with one person, Like,
how am I gonna? How am I going to go
back to never feeling those feelings again. I think it's
given me the empathy to understand, like why coming out
(08:15):
and that process is so fucking hard, because mine was
so hard, Like it started so hard that I can
get that, and I'm like, oh my god, it was
so hard for me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And what was that like to be outed.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
At a time when you were discovering yourself and you
weren't ready to have that conversation.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I will say I am so lucky because my parents
handled it a lot better than her parents, And not
that they did, not that they were perfect about it,
but they they didn't make me feel like, oh my god,
they'll never love me if this is the truth about me.
But I think the thing I felt most was ashamed,
Like I was really embarrassed, like really embarrassed when you're sixteen,
(09:00):
even even what your parents know, you kissed a boy
let alone, and I didn't know what they really knew happened.
We didn't know right away that it was a baby monitor.
We just knew that they knew something. And then it
was like a week or two later she was cleaning
her room and she found a baby monitor hidden in
the corner of her room. So yeah, I think like
the biggest thing was shame, and I think that's something
(09:20):
I'm still like work through to this day, which I'm like, yeah,
it affects me. It affects me in like my sex life,
it affects me in my romantic partnerships, it affects me.
Like I'm so I can be so easily embarrassed because
all stems from like all of that from the beginning.
But yeah, I think that was the biggest thing because
(09:41):
I obviously you want to say those words to someone
when you know that you know them. And I didn't know.
I didn't know what was going on, Like I was
still figuring it out and also stuffing it down. And
then to have your parents be like you're not gay,
are you? Like I have a boyfriend? What are you
talking about? Oh?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I was doing the same thing college. I was like, oh,
I have this captain of the soccer team. And I
was like, what all these soccer girls are so cute? Yep,
And I was like, hey, roommate, can I cuddle in
your bed?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh? Yeah. I had many a beard.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So like poor guys that my grandmother always said this
to me, bless, I had like a high school sweetheart
that I knew in first grade and we dated for
so long through elementary school, through middle school, all four
years of high school. And I came out to my
grandma and she was.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like, what did that boy do to you? Oh my
good grandma.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Stop, Like it's just the best.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It doesn't work that way. I'm for little do you know.
I've just been hiding it for a long time. I
knew I moved differently, and I was like, Okay, I
don't really like dig this homeboy, but like, this is
what I'm told to do. But I felt so emotionally
safe with women. I didn't I didn't quite understand where
I kind of fit. Yeah, And no one spoke about
(11:10):
it to me. It was a very hush hush thing.
So I was like, well, fuck, I'm just gonna keep
playing soccer and shut my mouth and date these ding
dongs and until.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
My fucking life. I kissed one girl and I was like, bye, yep,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
No. Literally, when I kissed the girl for the first time,
I was like, oh my god, this is why you
guys like this. I get it. I could do that again.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I can, I can really get down with it. Yeah,
there's no going back because that was fun. I used
to kiss my college boyfriend with my eyes open. Oh
h is that a little fun fact? Does everyone know that?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I don't know if I've said that. I've probably said
that before. But I had to drink a lot to
want to kiss him, and so then I felt like
if I didn't keep my eyes open, I would get dizzy.
It was like, bad, that's pretty bad. It was so
And it was in a frat house.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hey, I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Put me in a frat or put me in a sorority,
I would have been lethal.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh my god, that would have been a fucking nightmare
for me.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I and I nothing ever happened with you, my sorority sisters.
I was so parannoyed.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Were you out?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Did every so? You were only outed here?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I outed to my mom and my dad, and then
I went to college and I didn't tell anyone. And
then yeah, and then I told my parents and my
sister my freshman year summer that I was I was like,
remember that whole situation that happened. Yeah, I'm definitely gay.
So then I went back to college, though, and I
just stayed in the closet, didn't tell anyone. My senior year,
I started kind of getting like people started figuring it out,
(12:42):
and like I was telling people, but and then it
spread and then you know, you go to a party
one night and some boy who has a crush on
he was like, I heard you're a dyke. Now I'm like, oh,
not the G word, like awesome, So people are talking
about it. So it like again kind of got outed,
but it was like my own doing. I was just
kind of like, this is stupid. I don't care as
(13:03):
much anymore. But yeah, it was like a whole process.
I wasn't really like fully out of the closet until
I graduated college. Wow, yep, because I had like two instagrams.
I had my gay Instagram and I had my Oklahoma Instagram,
And I was amassing a following on Instagram that I
just had a private but I had. I must have
had like ten thousand followers. And this was twenty fourteen
(13:27):
I graduated college. Yeah, and so then I had this
other one where all my college friends followed me. And
then like a week or two after I graduated, I
posted on my straight Instagram and said, this is hious.
Two instagrams is like one too many. And if you
guys want to you can follow me on this account.
I'm gay. And then I posted a coming out video
(13:49):
that was on YouTube to like all of my Oklahoma people,
and I'm like, take it or leave it.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Here we go. We're about to really strap in for
this one.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, really strapped in. Yeah you often?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I love this. Yeah, so you uh you finally come out.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I guess what we're both kind of known for now
is really turning these straight women?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Oh my god, I guess it's a girl.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And I liked it, Like, should we talk about that?
I mean, I would know nothing about kiss seen or
dating a girl who's never been.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
With a girl before. Yeah, we could definitely talk about that.
I think it's it's happened to me less times than
like it seems like it's happened to me a lot
of times. But it's happened a few a couple of times.
But why do you think that happens to you?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I Okay, this is the weirdest fucking part. I swear
on my life and so thinks this is so wild.
I get hit on by more men. No, I swear
to God, I get hit on by more men than women.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It is the fucking weirdest thing in the world. And
I don't know. If it's like this weird, I can
turn her type of shit. I don't know what it is,
but I get hit on way more. Which straight men.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, you're also like kind of intimidating, and I think
men like that too.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Is it the challenge the chase?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, but also men like don't believe that women who
wear makeup are gay, Like you have makeup on your
available to a.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Band, Honey, that's an uphild out on top.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It's not gonna happen. But they can try. This is
a flood zone. Any they could try. Yeah, I don't know.
My first girlfriend was like my first real girl, like
true girlfriend was a lesbian. There's an element to me
dating women who haven't dated women before that I truly
believe it stems from they don't know who I am,
(15:50):
Like they don't have this idea of who I am,
like a preconceived like notion or something, because I have
been online for so long, I have been posting for
so long. And I'm not saying every lesbian in the
United States of America knows who I am, but like,
there isn't an element of feeling known by my community
that is like icky, like I don't want you to
(16:13):
know the name of my first girlfriend, Like I don't
want you to like know.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That songs out there there's no going back. People are
right love songs about you and heartbreak. You are a heartbreaker.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I'm not trying to I swear no, I I don't know.
I mean, yeah, I think there's that. I think also
like women who look like me and you, we are
writing this like fine line of there is something masculine
about us, that there is something really feminine about us,
and I think that that's intriguing to women, like especially
women who know they are queer, Like I've never by
(16:48):
the way, on the record, I have never dated a
straight woman. Straight women don't date women. Okay, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Doesn't happen. We have to get out of talking like that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
It is so invalidating to women, Like any woman who's like,
oh you're her first girlfriend. Ooh she's straight. Oh she's
gonna go back to men, Like are we looking at
men right now? Like women want to date women, and
women not straight women. They're not straight women. Street women
date men.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
This is wide open and I'm your host. Ashlyn Harris
we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
We are so expected as women to fit into a
patriarchy and it is so much easier to do that
than as like a bisexual woman, to put yourself out
there and try something different, Like it is so scary,
I if I say this, and it's terrible, but coming
from where I came from and the time that I
grew up, if I were bisexual, I would be married
(18:03):
to a man right now, Like that would have been
the trajectory of my life. Like I am out and
doing all these things because there was this is I
was going to die, like I was going to be
a lesbian or I was going to die. That was
it for me. And I see, and it makes so
much sense why there are so many women coming out
later in life. Yes, because why And we feed this
(18:25):
storyline to people that like being queer is harder and
it's like so people are like, well, that would be
a harder life. It's not a harder life. It's a
beautiful life.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's a beautiful life.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
There are new complications, there are different things you have
to that's life in general. Yeah, but life is life.
But I'm like, it's just there are so many more
queer women and women are just so expected to stay
in one lane and then we make it this whole
thing when someone steps out of it, and it's scary.
And I would say that some of the reactions that
(18:55):
some of these women who were were straight for most
of their life and then come out later life would
be scary to like see as another straight straight woman
to want to come out, like yeah, they're scrutinized for whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You know what I mean, I'm living it. I live
I y you know, my.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Partner on a soapbox Like no, it's.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It's interesting, right, So I say this all the time.
I have such incredible conversations with like suburban moms who
live this like cute, little white picked fence life with
this husband who works, and I get I have some
like really good off the cuff out and about conversation
(19:42):
with with women who were like I like, they're not
willing to leave that life for the fear of which
the other side would bring, and they stay in this
space of complacency where they're always wishing for something different,
(20:06):
but stay in their circumstance, and I just like that
breaks my heart, Like what the fuck have we been
conditioning these poor fucking women to.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Believe well, and it's just a different You are restructuring
a life that you saw for yourself. Yes, and that
is very normal, and that is very like when that's
all that you see everywhere, it's all that you've seen
in your life, it's all that your friends have done,
it's all. It's every movie you've watched, it's every TV
(20:37):
show you see, it's every it's everywhere, it's everything. It's
all the time to do the work to deconstruct that.
It takes time and it takes a lot of effort.
And I feel for any person who goes through that
kind of situation, and like even for me being a
lesbian for as long as I have been, Like the
idea of making like having kids and however I'm going
(21:01):
to do that is extremely intimidating to me, and like
I feel there are things I have not unpacked about
how I feel about having children or like being a
mom in general. I think people take it a little
too lightly because I'm like, this is a very it's
this huge, huge thing to be a mother. So Mike,
(21:23):
I will think about it until I feel so confident
that I'm like, this is what I can do and
how I can do it and whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I don't know if people are ever really ready. I
don't think life will ever prepare you for how hard
it is to be a mom yep. And the demands
and the shit you place on yourself based on your
own trauma from childhood. It is fucking wild. It's the
(21:51):
hardest thing I've ever done. And I have adopted two children.
I don't know any different, but those are my fucking babies.
And I guess I don't know what it's like to
have a baby or a biological child, but like in
my mind and the way I show up, those babies
are mine.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I love that because it is showing.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Our community that it doesn't have to look one way.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, and it definitely doesn't, but it also should be
your decision and you should do what you can do
and show up the way you can show up, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It's really interesting the cultural.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Ideals that people place on us, Like I'll be really
honest with you, COVID hit and I lived in Florida
and a lot of adoption agencies are faith based and
a lot of my queer friends were saying, we've been
on this list for three fucking years and it is
(22:54):
painful and it is hard and it is shitty to
live in a place like this where.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
We are not the first choice. And I was like panicked.
I was like, what the fuck does that mean?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Is this going to be impossible for me based on
living in Florida yep and being a queer mom? And
I can't I don't have the same excess, Like, am
I not going to be able to do this just
based on my sexuality?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I fucking matched in three weeks.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
No way.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I was like, well, that Olympics is shot.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It was wild. That's also what people don't.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Talk about is a lot of people want a certain
type of child.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I was not.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
My ex wife and I we were not one of
those people. I was like, I feel dirty in a
way trying to pick a designer baby. I had no
idea what life was going to give me. And holy shit,
am I forever grateful to have those babies in my
life in the way that.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You know it happened?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, it was really hard, like circumstances, and they're the
greatest gift that I've ever had, and I'm so lucky
and I have to always share that because I do
think that we don't get enough.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
We have no representation. We have so little representation in
all the ways I don't know, like lesbian moms with
like twenty year old kids, like I don't know, I
don't see I don't know them, I don't see it.
I mean, it's like, is it so crazy to think
that someone would have a hard time unpacking something they've
(24:39):
never seen before. I feel that I don't have role models,
like very many role models that I look to, and
I'm like, that's the life that I am going to live,
and it's forget about kids. Which don't forget about kids.
We love the kids. But like weddings, I'm like, I
don't really have that many weddings that I've seen that
are lesbian weddings. And I'm like, and that girl would
(25:01):
be me, and that girl will be my wife.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Like I watch these.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Weddings and I'm like, it's not gonna be my wedding.
What street person could say that, what straight person does
not have a dream wedding that they're like, this is
what my wedding to look like, this is the I
love this movie and this wedding and this movie, and
I like this reception that I've seen on Instagram, and
I like this wedding dress that I've seen in Vogue
and I've seen like they ever it's everywhere for them,
(25:26):
which no good for you? For you. I'm not mad
or jealous, and I love street people, but no, but
we don't have that. No, we don't have that. And
it's like it give people a little bit of grace
when they are trying to unpack all of that with
(25:46):
no one to see and see themselves in.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Let's dive into that though, because I do think that's
a good segue the scrutiny, the pressure of being a
public facing person who has lived.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Out relations both of us, Yeah, have lived out a
lot of our shit. How does that? How has that
been for you?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yes? It is for sure hard. And I also take
responsibility for putting myself in that position because I did
it to myself in so many ways. I think the
thing for me too at this point is like it's
very unhealthy because I'm having like a hard time kind
of distinguishing my own reality and like my own feelings
and processing my own feelings and processing my own breakup
(26:27):
and not just processing like a public's reaction to it,
like and seeing and hearing their voices and like actually
trusting my own and like reminding myself like I was
in this relationship. I know what this relationship was. I know,
like and that means I'm talking about like all everything right,
but I don't know. I mean, I think for a
(26:47):
while there was like an embarrassment I was feeling where
I'm like, oh God, I never go someone again. They're
gonna be like, damn it, Channon. But then I was like,
you know what, I'm who can like, I mean, I
care who cares if I'm embarrassed? Yeah? Who cares? If
my relationships didn't work out in the grand scheme of things,
(27:07):
Like I love I'm such a lover. I could do
a little less.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But I I feel you when you say that.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I love love like I love it, and I love
this community so much, And I know and I'm like,
we have so little representation. And there have been different
motivations behind each relationship I've had and how public or
private they've been. Because every single relationship I've had, believe
(27:40):
it or not, even though I was a part of,
all of them were different. They were each very unique
to themselves. But at the very end of the day,
there is an element that I'm always attached to, which
is like creating representation. But I am now also working
through like and talking to my manager, my team and
PEP and being like, I don't have to be all
(28:04):
representation and I can't be all representation. I am also
just this one little white girl from Texas, Like, there
are so many stories that are so much more unique
and interesting and need to be heard. And believe it
or not, there's a lot more like interesting things about
me other than my love life. Yeah, exactly so, and
(28:27):
I talk about them all the time. I really am
talking about my life. But this has become such a
obviously like an interesting thing that's happened, Like who's done this? Me? You? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Do you keep anything just for yourself? Yeah for sure, Yeah,
like you definitely have. That's been my biggest learning lesson
is setting boundaries with like my my new level of
dating someone who's very in the fucking public eye. Holy shit,
(29:03):
that was like whiplash when that all became public. My
partner now is just like holy shit, Like people just
I thought entertainment was wild. The women's soccer community is
fucking bananas, Like they just won't they won't stop, and
it heavily is the queer community. We live life, you know,
(29:27):
on this fucking pedestal that we can't make mistakes, we're
not allowed to miss and this is the human experience.
Like we're not going to always get it right, but
we can't keep getting punished for it, and we can't
keep having moments of real heartache continue to carry into
(29:50):
our new relationships. And I'm curious for you because I
know this is a really hard thing for us, having
such a pub relationship with a public figure and songs
are made up about your happiness. And let's all be
very clear, Like I fucking love Fletcher, like I love
(30:12):
both of y'all.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We've been homies, yeah for a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So like I, I can understand her side of healing
because she was so in love and maybe not necessarily
always we are not in those moments equipped with the
right tools to navigate the challenges we're faced. Does that
(30:42):
still carry that breakup still carry into every single one
of your relationships because people are front row sing the
fucking lyrics to your heartbreak, Like I can imagine it's
hard to escape without having really serious boundary.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
What is that like for you?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Great question? Yes, I feel I feel that relationship has
been romanticized heavily, heavily, very heavily. Yes, I think comparison
is the thief of joy. And I think if some
if the Internet or a fan base or a group
of people like like something so much and loved something
(31:25):
so much, and it's now comparing you to this thing,
it will it will steal some joy. I am past
that relationship and that relationship is over, like and I
am but like it is over for me. It is
not over for everyone. And that means the Internet not
my ex you know. So anytime I talk about it,
(31:47):
then it perpetuates it more. And I'm like, anytime I'm
like it is over, people are like, but did you
see she took a sip of the beer right before
She's like, I can't win. Like I feel like I
doesn't matter how much I say it, And like the
end of the relationship was so public and then we
did kind of let people in and they saw these
like glimpses. I mean, I've talked about it before, but
(32:10):
like we packaged it up in the prettiest beau, in
the prettiest, loveliest beau, and she wrote wonderful, beautiful songs
about it that make it sound so pretty, and I'm like,
and in so many ways it was so pretty, but
we are also we were young, and we are done
(32:31):
and it is done, Like that story is done, and
now we have a friendship of sorts, where a healthy
type of friendship. I'm like, we're not hanging out. I
don't have I'm not like a lesbian who's gonna be
best friends with my ex girlfriends. I think that's so
complicated and weird.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, I mean, Shannon, you end up coming on fucking
podcasts with them.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I'm like, how well teach me your ways?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
No, because don't think for a second, I didn't tune
into that podcast when the Putcher came on. And then
you know, you did it your last relationship. You guys
literally broke up on you announced it on a podcast
and I'm like, how do you sit there?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
So I have to stop sitting there?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You really just sit down?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
You're like, you know what, I'm gonna just fucking air
it all out here so people stop wondering. Like people
would fall out of their skin if I had my
ex wife on this show.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Can you imagine they would? You know the thing with
Carrie and doing the podcast that truly was like a
business decision. Like I was like, we truly did kind
of bury the hatchet. And then I was launching this
podcast and like it really was, I was like, this
will perform well, and I do. I also do want
(33:54):
to just like bury that. I want everyone to see
like this is done. We are fine. But I'm an idiot, so.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
No, you're not.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
No. Like I, I make these decisions and in the
time when I do them, I think it's like, okay,
like I can this is I'd can justify this. And
then when I look back on some of the things
I've done, and I won't get into specifics of what
those things are, but some things I'm like, why did
you do that? Girl? Why did you do that? Girl?
You are a dumb, dumb girl, and stop it.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I will say this though. You nail it when you
say it's a business.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah too.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I don't think people get that.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
It's just just black and white. There's there were, there
were many motivations. Just business was one of them, and
it was yeah, I don't know. I also, I genuinely
in my stupid girl brain, was like when they see
that we are we forgive each other and we're moving on,
they will too move on. No, no, dumb girl, that's
(34:55):
not how that works. So is it good learn I'm
learning a lot all the time and clearly not learning
fast enough sometimes. And I feel, I feel some of
the things I've done have like hurt people really deeply
in ways that I regret so much, and I like,
I am trying to figure out the contribution of my
(35:19):
actions to people's pain and like learn from that. So
it's tough, Like it's tough.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's tough to live out your failures publicly, Shannon, That's
what it like comes down to, is we are all human, truthfully.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And also but I will say, I don't know. I
don't think you can waste love. Like I don't feel
like I feel like I went through breakups, my relationships
didn't work. They don't all feel like failure, you know.
I'm like, it just feels like life. And of course
(35:56):
they're like, of course you want of course you want
every person that you date to be the person that
you marry. And some kind of like there's a part
of you that that's there's an end goal that you
hope will happen, and when it doesn't happen, like there's heartbreak.
But I'm like, did it? Is it failure or is
it just life? I have to believe that I'm a
(36:16):
good person, and I need to figure out how I
can make myself believe that just alone, Like, and if
I don't, then I think I'm going to keep making
the same mistakes. And what is the definition of insanity?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Doing the same thing over and over and over again.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
And expecting a different result. Yeah, so I'm insane.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
No, you're not.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
No, but I I have a lot of I have
a lot of growing up to do, and I have
a lot of work to do on myself as a person,
and I yeah, I am aware of that, and I
am not I'm not, I know, I'm I don't know.
I also feel like there's a lot of people throwing
stones from glass houses all the time, Like, I don't
(37:03):
know anything about your life, So what have you done?
You know, stranger on the internet. I'm sure you are
also not perfect. I have to remind myself of that often.
But yeah, I think I am really trying to just
sit with myself, even though that is obviously like uncomfortable,
(37:25):
you know, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
But it's the truth with you. Yeah, it totally begins
with you.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
A lot's happened in the last ten years that I'm like, girl,
take a nap, please.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I can't. You are funny. Holy shit, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I hate that I can sit in this space and
feel your shame, and I hope that you can sit
in this space and feel my joy.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Oh that's so sweet.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Like, I hope you know that you're meant for great things. Yeah,
I do how you're deserving of it, but.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I believe I will believe that soon.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
It's a process, like heartbreak is a process. There's this
level of unraveling that is so fucking uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Recently, like I had someone I had someone like say
something about my character that like really affected me, and
I was like, oh my god. And I was like,
oh my god, it's kind I've talked about this before
about the internet too, and I'm like, there are comments
on the Internet that bother me because there's obviously some
truth to it. And I'm like, because the ones that
don't bother me, like don't affect me at all. You know,
(38:40):
when someone's like you you're gay, I'm like again, but
when someone says something and I'm not going to tell
you what it is because I know you will use
it against me. But when someone says something and I'm like, ah,
I'm like, oh shit, what is it that hurts so
bad about that? Then like how can I fix it?
Like how can I believe that I how can I
believe that that is not about me? Because like there
(39:01):
is a part of me that knows that some of
these comments. I'm like, I know that that is not true.
I know that this is a projected projection of someone else.
But I'm like, but why don't I feel that in
my soul? Like why don't I feel it in my bones?
You know? Like like someone commented saying, like you live
a sad life, and in my core, the deepest part
(39:24):
of my body, I was like, no, I don't. I
have a happy life, Like I have a joyful life.
I have an amazing family, I have amazing friends. I
love my job. I'm so lucky to do what I do,
like I have a cool car, or like I can
go through all the things that I'm like, no, I don't.
But I'm like there are other things that someone will
say about me and I'm like, oh my god, am I.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Do you find healing?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And your podcast and you show x'es and outs because
I will say I have found so much healing and
having beautiful conversations like this.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, one hundred, one hundred percent. And also it is
such a gift to speak to people who I think
the coolest thing about being gay or queer at all
is that you can meet any other queer person and
they could have they could grow up, they could be
from a different country, they could speak a different language,
(40:20):
they could have different religion, they could have different kinds
of parents, different family dynamic, they could have everything could
be different, and you have something so like beautiful in
your core that you can relate to each other on. Yeah,
And it's been such a gift to be able to
sit down and talk to people who have a different story,
a different life, a different different ages, and like feel
(40:44):
so connected to them about this one thing and also
learn something I've never learned about because I think a
huge issue in like the lesbian community, I don't know
what your experience is, but like the woli woo community is,
it's very it can become very siloed, and like its
very easy to find yourself and friend groups that are
(41:05):
all white lesbians who kind of look like you, who
are dating people that kind of look like the people
you're dating, like it happens and it and obviously there's
so much I have so much gratitude for those friends
that I've made in like those friend groups that I've had,
but they're also like huge echo chambers of just like
we all have the same experience, Like how many of
(41:26):
us were in a sorority raise your hand? Eight people? Okay,
not that relatable and not even that cool to talk about,
you know when you when you're thirty two, I'm like,
I don't really need to talk about my sorority days
as much anymore, you know. So it's just been such
a gift to talk to people who look different than me,
hang out with different people than me, and it's like
(41:47):
made me so hungry for different kinds of queer friendships too,
And I'm like, I want to be in different spaces,
I want to be around different types of people, I
want to hear different stories. So that's been huge gift.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
We'll be right back. What's next for you?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Like what.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Brings Shannon Joy?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I talk a lot on my platform about this parasocial
relationship and like people thinking I'm a character, but to
be fair, it's a double edged sword. And I also
sometimes forget that people that are following me are real people,
Like I forget for every one hundred people who comment,
there are thousands of people who enjoy my content and
just from afar like they don't they're not so engaged
(42:47):
in it. But like, I'm so excited to see those
people in real life and be like, oh my god,
you're real and you actually do like me, and like
this is some of my fears are not true and
some of my anxiety is like my own whatever, my
own shit and not your shit. So it's so excited
for that. I love people. I love I love people,
(43:09):
So I'm like, I want to just keep connecting with
people this year. I want to keep working. I want
to make my podcast better. I want to ideally show
people that there are more interesting things about me than
the people that I date, and like that I have
a lot going on that is like whatever, interesting and cool,
(43:30):
and like I want to share those things and yeah,
just keep keep doing what I'm doing to some degree,
but bigger better. I love that, and keep getting I'm
so stoked about the guests that I've been getting on
my podcast and you have to go to my box.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, I'll be coming. I want to talk sex. I'm
having the best sex of my life. Oh, let's let's
really roll our sleeves up.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Oh my god, I'm gonna start writing questions.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Oh god, it's I'm like a hops gepping a jump
away from forty and this like article just came out
that now women in their forties are having the best
sex of their life.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And I'm like, not fucking wrong. Okay, why, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
I finally know what to ask for.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Did we finally drop the rope and stop performing and
stop making relationships so fucking performative and you just finally
say this is what I want and this is what
makes me happy and not feel shame about it.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I don't know. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Maybe Okay, well we'll talk about that on my podcast.
But I cannot wait. Yeah. I'm so excited that the
guests that I'm getting it started so much like from
my own community and like just people so peripherally close
to me, and I've started to finally get to have
these conversations with people that I'm like I would have
never met you, Like there's no reason I probably would
(44:50):
have never met Margaret Chell, and I'm like, how fucking
cool that you're here in my house with your Chuawa
in my bed. I love this and I can't wait
to see like all the other guests that I'll have
this year. So I'm just I'm I want to find peace,
I want to be happy, I want to heal. I
want to believe I'm a good person. You are a
good person, and I want to believe it. So let's
(45:11):
see what happens.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I love that for you. I'm excited. I So to
wrap up, I'm going to ask you one last question.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
With x's and o's, what has been the most profound
moment in interviewing someone that really changed the way you
move in the world.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
That's so hard because they're all so good, Like there
is something that good that has come from everyone. I
think personally for me, hmm, maybe the episode I did
with Er fight Master. We talked a lot. They're so
intelligent and like so interesting, and we talked a lot
(45:54):
about like gender in ways that I was like, this
is so much more profound than the conversations I've been
having around these topics. I also think the conversation I
had with Ash Perez, who's a trans guy around just
like his transition and like all the things happening right
now with hormone replacement therapy, that was like very profound,
(46:18):
Like I think it was just I think there's so
much fear and stress and scary things going on with
like politics, and I also think that a lot of
those fears sometimes feel like they might not impact me
because like I'm not married and I'm white and I'm sis.
(46:39):
So sitting down and talking to someone, I'm like, this
is like a day in and day out potential fear
for you. It is just like it's very important to
be having those conversations so that I'm like, this work
is very very important, Like I'm not doing this for nothing.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, these stories are so impactful and so important, especially
with the current political landscape we are living.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
There is in fear.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Yeah, there is fear, and even for me, Like I'm
not saying there's no fear, but it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
We're gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
We're gonna keep elevating our queer communities and that's what
we do. Like this is not new to the community,
to roll our sleeves up and be resilient and fight
like hell for our rights. And it's it's not about
queer rights, it's about human rights. And there is no
better way to keep pushing the envelope than by telling
(47:38):
the stories of queer people.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
And you're doing that. So thank you, thank you for
being here today, thank you for your vulnerability.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Anytime to doing great. You're doing fucking great, and you
are enough.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So I'm always rooting for you. I can't wait to
get on your fucking show.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
I can't I don't wait to absolutely unravel and have
wine and probably break down and cry.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Because that's usually what I do when I talk about
my story. I'm so emo.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
It's perfect race.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
I need tissues, oka, is what I'm saying. But I'm
really proud of you. I've seen you grow a lot
over the last you know, eight to ten years, and
you keep showing up. Kid, you keep doing it, and
you keep being this beautiful soul and icon that you
are changing the landscape of queerness for not only young people,
(48:34):
but older people as well. So I'm grateful for your work.
I'm grateful for your friendship.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
I'm grateful for your friend This is I feel like you.
Just I feel a little bit better today.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
That's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, thanks for.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Coming on and tell everyone where they can actually watch.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, all my socials are at now this is Living.
My YouTube channel now, this is Living. My podcast is
called X's and O's, EXS and o S just that. Yeah,
and I'm on all social media as now this is living.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Great.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, thanks for being on Wide Open. Thank you for
another beautiful.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Conversation, and we'll see everyone next week.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Woo.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(49:43):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlan Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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