September 8, 2025 • 45 mins
This week, Ashlyn sits down with breakdancer Sunny Choi. It’s been about a year since Sunny achieved her childhood dream of competing in the Olympics, though as a kid she thought she’d do it as a gymnast. Sunny takes Ashlyn through her upbringing and the personal battles she had to overcome to make it to the largest stage of her sport. Plus, she opens up about the high of getting breakdancing into the 2024 Paris Olympics and the low of learning that it would not be included in the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide
Open with Ashland Harris. Today we are speaking with our
favorite Olympian be girl and first American woman to ever
qualify for breaking an Olympic history, Sonny Choy. Welcome to
Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you, thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, so am. I I know we met. Gosh was it?
I think it was the year before the Paris Olympics
and can at the NBC pop up and use I
was with Sue Bird and you were breaking on stage
and it was just one of the coolest activations I
(00:52):
think NBC is ever done, because usually no offense, it's
so vanilla and the music like we were vibing. Sue
and I were like, Okay, this is so freaking cool,
and gosh, what a whirlwind it's been. Uh really has
clearly changed your life quite a bit. Yeah, I feel
(01:14):
like breaking in the Olympics was such a huge buzz
at the time, both good and bad. And but I'm
curious because I want to dive in and obviously it's
so good to see you again and I'm so excited
to catch up and the listeners to hear what you're
(01:37):
doing and you know where you're going now that it's
you know, the Olympics. Unfortunately, breaking has been removed from
the Olympics in LA which will really dive into because
that makes me so unbelievably sad for you. But there's
so much positivity we can roll into. But first I
really want to start with, like your your origin story,
(01:59):
the beginning, because you do have such a rich story
of who you were before all of this, you know,
fame and press tours and people wanting you probably to
break dance on the side of the road everywhere you go. Yeah,
but yeah, please please tell me, tell tell me and
tell the listeners. Uh you know what it was like
(02:22):
growing up as a young girl in Tennessee and Kentucky.
I'm like, hello, please, yeah, elaborate because like I am.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Dying to know what that was like. Yeah. So I
was born in Tennessee, but we moved to Kentucky when
I was like seven, So you know, I don't remember
much of Tennessee other than like it was a really
small town and my school was like literally in my backyard,
like through a grover tree. This is the kind of
like town that we lived in at the time. So
(02:53):
I actually though while I was in Tennessee. When I
was three, I watched the ninety two Olympic Games, and
apparently I was like hooked onto gymnastics, and I begged
my mom for a month to put me in because
I wanted to win a gold medal at the Olympics.
And so she put me into gymnastics at a really
young age, and you know, she had no idea what
(03:14):
she was doing. So she sent me to my first
class in a tutu, thinking.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
My god, this is like dance right.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So I'm in this little mermaid tutu, probably the only
Asian girl there, showing up like, am I going to
get a gold medal today?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
My mom was like, I don't know what today.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I'm hungry at the beginning. Yeah, so that's where it
all started. I used to drop pictures with the Olympic
rings in the corner, like this was always a childhood
dream of mine. When we moved to Kentucky, we ended
up kind of like accelerating my gymnastics doing this like
back then it was called like TPR the Tops program,
(03:53):
I think. So I was like traveling doing like strength
testing and skills testing, going to these like national camps.
So we're basically like on the road potentially to be
a candidate right for the Olympics. We decided pretty young though,
so I would say like right out of elementary school
going to middle school. We had this conversation of like, well,
(04:15):
are we ready to pull her out of school and
homeschool and actually go this like Olympic track.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Or are we going to go kind of like the
regular route.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And we decided then like, actually we're going to go
the regular route. At that time, you know, societal expectations
had set in and my pictures are no longer Olympic rings.
But I was like, yeah, I'm going to be a
doctor and I'm going to go to Stanford pre med
and like, you know, so we ended up foregoing the
Olympic pathway knowing, you know, like chances are low back
(04:48):
then as an Olympic athlete, like there wasn't much beyond
the Olympics, So it was like what is there after
that for me?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
For my life?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So we ended up kind of going the more traditional
like good middle school, went to a good high school, graduated,
I got into pen and I went to business school
because I figured, you know, at that time, honestly I
didn't like anything and I was like.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, my brother went to business school. I know I
can make money with this.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
The coach at Penn wants me to do gymnastics there,
so that makes it really easy when when I'll get
in and I'll transfer ou to business school if I
really hate it. So I you know, I get to
college and I still don't know what I want to do.
But I'm in, like you know, at the time, like
one of the best business programs in the US, and
I'm just like just just checking the boxes, like doing
(05:37):
the things that I knew I needed to do to
be successful in life. You know, get a good job,
make money, have a family, buy a home, just do
all the things that like the world expected me to do.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I was just on that path, just chugging along. Ye.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So you know, I actually blew up my kne in
high school before I get to college, so I'm backtracking
a little bit, and I ended up having surgery and
then hurting it again when I got back into the
sport and.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
The doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So I ended up having to quit gymnastics before I
get to college. So I was pretty lost at that time.
I had hit some pretty low lows mentally, and I
think just a combination of like burnout, being really lost,
not knowing how to talk about my emotions, like all
of that like really bubbled up. So junior senior year
(06:28):
pretty hard. And then I get to college and I'm
just like out there doing what freshmen do.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Maybe a little extreme, yes, and you know, I'm just
like just just exploring and trying to figure out what
it is that I want to be doing with my life,
you know, or actually at that point, I don't think
I was trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
At that point, I was just trying to run, like
run away, and I stumble into some breakers one night.
They're just dancing on campus and they're basically promoting, you know,
the school club, and I was like, oh, that's cool,
Like they're upside down, like that looks like fun. I
kind of missed this, and so, you know, late night,
I'm not sober, They're like, hey, you want to come
to a class on Friday. I was like sure, sure,
(07:12):
so I went. I tried it, and I was like, oh,
this is fun. So you know, while I'm in college,
I'm breaking on the side, starting to kind of figure
figure out this world and like what my space is
in it, and how to express myself and how to
how to like take down all those barriers that I
had set up, you know, to like live this perfect
life and just be vulnerable. I'm dancing, so doing all that. Meanwhile,
(07:36):
the rest of my life is unfolding. So I graduate,
start working in corporate do that for quite a bit,
just kind of climb that ladder and do what I
need to do to make more money and get you know,
higher up on the ladder, so that checking all the boxes.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Falling in line with the society tells us women to
do correct.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And at the same time, you know, still breaking on
the side, getting better, breaking, starting to travel internationally, starting
to make some money off of it, and just like
kind of explore what's there for me, but never seeing
it as a viable option for me in terms of
like my career, just because you know, dance is hard
already breaking even harder because it's more underground than most
dance styles.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So yeah, I'm just chugging along.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
But to be honest, like I'm miserable every single day
showing up to work and doing a great job. No
one can tell from the outside because I'm always smiling,
but like deep down, I just like I had no purpose.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know, some days it was hard to get out
of bed, like just it was kind of tough.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So when the Olympic opportunity presented itself, initially, actually I
said no because I want to have kids potentially, and
I want to have house, and like I'm saving money
and I'm getting to a point in the next few
years where I feel ready to like look for a
home and to buy in New York. You know, I
was on the track to that life that I I
(09:00):
had drawn up for myself, right, and the Olympics just
put a huge wrench in all that. So initially I said,
I don't think I want to do this. It took
me about six months to come around and actually decide like, okay,
I can't give up all myself again. Like I had
this dream as a kid. I have this opportunity to
now to get out of this life that I don't
(09:21):
like and start a brand new one and in like
such a radically cool way at that, you know, so
like why not? And so that's you know, it wasn't
until I think the beginning or like mid twenty twenty
two is when I decided, like, all right, I'm going
to quit my job in the near future, you know,
save up until then, but I'm going to quit my
(09:42):
job and I'm going to do this full time and
then I'll figure it out after.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
But I'm never coming back to corporate. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sorry, that was like such a long dire tribe. I
didn't realize it trying to take that.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But no, it's great. It's great. You have such a
rich history of your life experiences and I don't want
to skip over too much, and I really would like
to dive into it because there's so much there that
is so helpful for younger you know, kids growing up
who feel the isolation, maybe the racism, maybe the otherness
(10:18):
of being Korean American and a very small Kentucky town.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean, I love this question. So I've thought
about kind of like representation and my like being Asian
a lot in this journey, actually not a lot. Initially,
I didn't think about it at all. I basically like
hd it and tried to pretend it didn't exist for
so long. And it wasn't until Aletts were asking me
(10:43):
about what it's like being Asian? What does representation mean
to me? That I realized that I've been running away
from that question too. For a long time. I think
I was embarrassed of being Asian. You know, I got
made fun of and I would brush it off as
a kid, like I didn't realize that it was is
like technically bullying when people would make fun of me
for being Asian and my eyes and say things like
(11:06):
chingchang whatever, you know in the hallways. To me, I
was just like, that's not even Korean. Why would you
do that? That's so silly. You know, My practical self
was never, like luckily emotionally particularly damaged. But I think
the effect of just knowing like I wasn't like everyone
else was always there and present, and so I feel
(11:26):
like I always tried to fit in, And I think
that's part of the narrative of why I wanted to
do everything the way that like the world expected me
to do things. So I think a lot of that
came from me wanting to fit in, me wanting to
be like everyone else, because I growing up never felt
that way.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I always knew there was something different.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know, like even with my like so, I actually
spoke Korean first before I spoke English, and my mom
thought when I went to school that I didn't speak English,
and she was really concerned when I was off to
kindergarten that I was gonna like be treated differently because
she was concerned I didn't speak enough English. Well, it
turns out I come home after my first day of
(12:08):
school and said, Mom, I'm never speaking Korean again. I'm
only going to speak English. And she was so relieved
that I spoke English. So now I no longer speak
my native language.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I can understand a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I can speak very basic Korean, but all English because
I was just so focused on fitting in, you know,
I just I growing up. I didn't know I was
different until I got to school and realized, oh, I'm
very different.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, And do you feel like that added more pressure
to your burnout? Which we'll talk more about, because I
think we're all experiencing we're in a real serious mental
health crisis, and I'm curious. You know, having immigrants, you
know parents, there's a whole different type of pressure that
comes with that of you know, they've sacrificed so much
(12:57):
for me to be here, I've got to really be successful. Like,
is gymnastics really the path forward? Are they going to
dedicate their life to my craft at such an early age,
are you thinking in real time, like, Wow, the weight
I have on my back is so enormous that it's
unbearable to carry anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
When I was young, I didn't realize that that that
is what it was, you know. When I was young,
it was just I feel like this is what I
should do, you know, like I wasn't able to comprehend
really why I was doing what I was doing. It's
just like it was just the right thing. It was
the only thing right. I just needed to make sure
I was successful and I did things like.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
The right way.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So, you know, I always got good grades, never questioned it.
You know, it was not a question to go to
a good college, Like it wasn't even a question not
to go to college because that's the only pathway forward.
And then it was never a question not to have
some sort of like stable, well paying.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Job after that. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, So I think the pressure was always there, I
just never realized it. And I think some of that
was because we didn't talk about emotions. And to no
fault of my parents, to no fault of yeah, of
my parents, because they grew up in a very very
different time, very different generation. And I'm so grateful for
everything that they did. But like they even to this day,
(14:22):
I think it's sometimes challenging to talk about emotions. And
I'm much more open with like my mom now than
I used to be, so she's aware of, like my
depression and you know, some of the lows that I
go through, and she's aware of some of this stuff
now and she's understanding. But when I was younger, because
I couldn't even begin to talk about it, I didn't
(14:42):
have the words to express I didn't know how to
describe what was going on.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You were young, like you didn't even have the words
to what you were feeling. I can imagine, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
But to not have someone be able to even guide
me so that I could start talking about them, I
think that was challenging. And so I internalized everything instead,
and then just it all kind of bubbled up and exploded,
and it would just do that over and over and
over and over again, and I just never understood why
it was happening.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, And I want to definitely hold space for that,
because your bravery and sharing it and being so open
is so profound and beautiful all at the same time.
Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment after
this brief message from our sponsors. It is such a
(15:36):
scary thing to go through depression. How'd you get through it?
Feeling so alone and unable to articulate? Holy shit, Like
I am really depressed and I am really not well
and I'm alone.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I think within my family's circle, I didn't have people
that I felt like I could talk to you, right,
and even like my siblings. My brothers are at the
house and a little brother was younger than me, so
he didn't quite understand. But I had friends who were
going through similar and I think it was that connection
that was really really helpful because there were a few
(16:14):
friends that I was very open with and that knew
what was going on and we would talk about it.
And I mean I had friends who would stay up
with me, like on messenger back in the day.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh yes, I love it.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
What was your handle?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
What was your handle? First? Before we dive deep into this,
I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I wish I did. I feel like it was actually
something pretty straightforward because I've always been really practical.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Mine was g K the number four life goalkeeper for life,
so embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I mean, there's no like xoxo Asian baby girl in there,
so because that was what a lot of the girls
are doing back then that were like.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh my god, that is so funny.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, sorry, anyways, continue.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
I mean no judgment to people who did that though.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
No, no, no, no, no, to each their own.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But I was just not that girl. But yeah, we
would stay up to like sometimes like three or four
in the morning talking because I was basically like an
insomnia ac, Like I just I couldn't sleep, and despite
being extremely exhausted, I couldn't sleep. I mean, the problem
then was like I was sometimes falling asleep at the wheel,
(17:30):
and I would fall asleep in class. Oh my god,
it's really dangerous. Yeah, there was a lot of like
dangerous stuff happening back then, and looking back, I'm really
grateful that I came out of that all unscathed, because
those are pretty rough years for me. But yeah, I
had other friends that I would share with, and they
(17:52):
were going through very similar I remember one specifically. He
was Asian, so I think we felt kind of a
similar type of press, sure from our families and you know,
just from society in general. So we we would talk
about these things, and you know, we talked about like
(18:12):
literally everything. But I think that that connection is really
what kept me going because it's like, even if I'm
not able to talk with my family, like, there are
people there who who do care. So that was that
was always helpful. And like going to school, it's like
I had a lot of friends there and you know,
it was always nice to see them, and I knew
that they appreciated me, even if they didn't know what
(18:32):
was going on. I mean, like people used to make
jokes in high school, like, oh, I pulled a sonny,
which means like I didn't sleep last night, and it
was like we all because none of us understood what
was happening. I didn't understand what was happening, and I
was always super bubbly and happy on the outside, so
everyone thought like, oh, she's great, like it's just the
thing she does. And I always got you know, straight
(18:53):
a's anyway, so yeah, you know, looking back now, I'm like, man,
that was a little toxic.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But truthfully, what I've learned, because I'm a huge advocate
in the mental health space, like I think the people
who struggle the most are the ones who are so
outwardly bubbly and happy because they have mastered the art
of that hidden identity of darkness that they are not
(19:21):
comfortable enough to share. Like, the most electric people in
my life are some of the most sad depressed people,
and I was one of them. So I don't think
that that's a weird statement to make. I think you
end up having to master the darkness by hiding it.
(19:43):
And I know it was really hard going to college
until you found breaking. Do you feel like when you
finally found breaking it felt like you found oxygen again?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Initially? No, I think initially it was like it was fun,
it was something new, it was something challenging, and it
was something that there was a piece of me that
always knew that I wanted to pursue some sort of
creative outlet. So even in high school, I did like
a fashion design course and I ended up making my
own prom dress and I was just like literally notebooks
(20:17):
and notebooks of like just drawings. You know, I loved it.
Didn't pursue that. Then I get to college and I
actually ended up getting a minor in fine arts and
even consider doing an MFA because I really enjoyed that.
But I was like, you know, there's no it's such
a hard life and here I am checking the boxes
and that's not a box I need to check, So
(20:38):
we're going to forego that. So I always knew there
was a piece of me looking to express myself in
a different way. Breaking was that plus the piece of
gymnastics that I loved, which is that like weightlessness, you know,
the like losing yourself and just relying on your body
to do what it does. So initially there was like
(21:01):
it was I was drawn to it because of the challenges,
and actually it used to frustrate the hell out of
me that I couldn't get in front of people and dance.
I used to just sit in the corner of the
room every day while everyone else practiced and like literally
in like a little ball in the corner of the
room and just watch because I was so scared to
do anything. And that it was like that for a while.
But I knew that this was something that I wanted
(21:21):
to get over. I knew it was an obstacle that
I didn't want to stop me from doing this thing
that I really wanted to participate in. And then there's
something so like a magnetic about watching people genuinely and
authentically be themselves. You know, in any in any space,
but I think with dance because it's your body and
(21:43):
there's this like shared language that transcends like actual verbal language. Right,
There's something so powerful about that that I was like,
I really want to participate in this. There's like a
level of connection that like I've never really felt and
I want to see what that's like.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, and it's so beautiful because it is storytelling through movement.
It is the most purest form of art, and it
moves everyone in a way that is so much bigger
than words, and it's so universal, and I think that
is the beauty and that is the gift that you
(22:18):
continue to give to the world.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
If you ever do you see it that way? Do
you think about that?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I don't think of it as being like I guess
I never think about it that way, but in terms
of like it being something that transcends language, that's like
so basic and primal. You know, like babies do that,
like dance a little bit before they can even talk,
you know, like this is just what we do as humans.
So yeah, I mean, it's absolutely what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm curious the fact that you said you used to
sit in the corner and you were like so terrified
to be open to your performances and your dance and
you know, I assume you were a very shy, smart kid,
but did you like because the gravity of competing at
(23:09):
the Olympics is so massive, Like I know it took
a while to decide, but once you did, you know
you're representing not only yourself but your family, your culture,
like on the biggest global stage, like out there. What
was that Like, what was it like when you stepped
(23:30):
on to that dance floor for the first time? Like
what bring the audience through? What is going through your head?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So for those of you watching video, you're going to
see I'm already tearing up. Every time I think about
that day, I am filled with so much, like but
it's like good emotion, like really positive emotion, because it
was one of the day that I was one of
the days of my life where I was most fulfilled.
And it's not because I was on the Olympic stage.
(24:02):
There's a lot more to it, Like this could have
happened elsewhere. It happened to happen at the Olympics for me,
but basically my entire breaking career I've told myself, I
want to be able to move freely, like I want
to get out of my own way. I want to
turn off my brain, zone in and just be me,
(24:23):
like as authentically me as possible. No guards up, you know,
no like no mask, no nothing, you know. And I
had been working on that my whole life, but every
time I would get down to battle, the little voice
in my set in my head would be like, oh,
not good enough, that was not right, or like, oh
we messed up there. Hey, like what are you doing.
You're definitely taking too long. Get off the floor, You're
not good enough to be here, like whatever. It was
(24:44):
that little voice was always talking, and so that that
voice was always so loud that I never felt like
I was able to be present and you know, they're
all there. As I got better at breaking, that voice
got quieter and it got a little bit more sports.
So it would be maybe like after the round that
(25:04):
that voice would be like, hey, that wasn't very good,
like I don't know why you did that one thing,
and then we kind of didn't hit this whatever. But
in the moment, there were moments where I've been able
to lock in, but yeah, you know, I never as
a breaker, said like I wanted to win this big
battle or I never even wanted to like necessarily travel
internationally get known, Like it was all about just exploring
(25:24):
and being able to be me. And I think that's
what made the Olympic moments so special, because I the
lead up to the Games was rough. I had to
face a lot of my like inner struggles, and I
had to get over those because I wanted to show
up for myself that day. And I think being able
(25:45):
to show up there having so many people that I
love and care for be there to support me wholeheartedly.
I have this picture of like my entire family dead
down team years a gear. Some of them would like
handwritten like team Sunny on their T shirt because they
didn't have time or they weren't able to get their
like T shirts made in time, whatever, all my nieces
there to support, like everybody, to have that level of
(26:10):
support everyone's there in Paris, Like I'm just I'm lucky
that everyone was able to get tickets and show up
and afford to be there to build a team around
me of people who cared about me. My like agient
at that time, my strength coach, my massage therapist, my boyfriend,
just like everybody there to support me, and knowing that
(26:33):
they all didn't.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Care how I did.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
They were just there to support, you know. Having all
of that there and then being able to step on
the stage and for the first time be like, I
don't I don't care about how I do today. I
just want to go have fun and to like really
truly feel that way was so special because it's like
literally the first time in my life where I was like,
nothing else matters. I get to be me and I
(26:56):
get to be celebrated for being me. Yea, So yeah,
I really was amazing experiences.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And I appreciate you being so vulnerable because what I
think the rawness and realness of you sharing. I think
people have no idea the pressures that we as athletes
go through to perform at the highest stage when so
much of our being and our self is telling us
(27:24):
constantly we're not good enough.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah for sure. I mean I almost bypassed all of
this and said I don't I don't want to do
it because my superficial reason was because I wanted to
have all these things in my life, and the Olympics
was going to get in the way. The real reason
was because I didn't think that I could do it.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I didn't want to put all my eggs in this
basket in me. I didn't want to trust in myself.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Because yeah, it's sitting on yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, it's so much scarier to do that than it
is to just like go on this prescribe pathway. And yeah,
I mean the so much of my journey and still
today is about reminding myself that I'm enough. I actually
often wear a bracelet that says I'm enough.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I say that I mean to myself every day in
the mirror, I'm with you, sister. We are in that
together every day in the mirror before my day starts.
And I think it's such a reminder for the audience
out there who's struggling like to literally not think it,
but say it out loud to yourself. I am enough,
and I belong and I am here, and whatever demons
(28:32):
and battles like you face, saying the things out loud,
that is so simple, just I am enough in this moment,
whether good or bad, I am enough. And I think
that's a beautiful thing that you just said. This is
wide open and I'm your host. Ashlyn Harris, Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Living such the height of the height of this paras
Olympics and breaking being you know, it's the first year.
I'm curious when the news hit that break Dancing was
removed from the LA twenty twenty eight, our home country,
Like what I want your honest like reflection, Like I
(29:21):
can imagine heartbreak and frustration and all the things in between,
But what was like when did you find out? What
was the moment? What what did you feel? What was
the first thing you did? Like walk us kind of
through that.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
So there were rumblings and we were pretty sure that
it wasn't going to be in LA included. We actually
like officially officially got the news. We were at the
Olympic Training Center in Colora Springs, and so it was
all of us that we're trying to be on Team
USA at that point, I don't believe any of us
had maybe only a few of us that qualified.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Or maybe not. I don't I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
But we were sitting in a room and they officially,
you know, our our team lead told us breaking wouldn't
be included, and the room just went silent. You know,
we were all devastated, but it was it was just like,
I feel like collective disappointment because breaking comes from communities
(30:21):
that don't have a lot, and we knew at the
end of the day the reason why we weren't included
in LA One of the big reasons is because we
didn't have money to give to the associations that were,
you know, organizing everything. Like, at the end of the day,
a lot of the stuff does come down to money.
We were lucky in France that France put Breaking in
despite us not having money, because France has such a
(30:43):
rich culture of supporting the arts and supporting dance, you know,
so they were willing to do that. But when that happened,
it was just like, you know, it was disappointment, but
also like kind of knew it was going to happen
because this is this is what we do here in
the States. We tend to put money over everything else.
(31:03):
And of course we all knew that the breaking community
doesn't have the money to give. We don't have the
money to put up to get into another And I'm
not saying that like I personally don't know. I don't
believe people like literally paid dollars to put it in
but it's in terms of like sponsorship and stuff, right, Like,
we just don't have money as a community to be
doing that. But what was so disappointing is breaking is
(31:25):
one of the most financially accessible sports in the Olympics,
or at least was in Paris, right Like, we all
still dance in community centers. A lot of people like
practicing their garages and in other people's garages. We go
to like dance spaces where I think the most I
pay for practice is like seven dollars, But you can
find free spaces everywhere. You know, most people don't pay
(31:47):
for lessons. Some do nowadays, especially in other countries, but
in the States, I mean, it's still just like these
big open spaces you go and if you're eager to learn,
you can walk up to someone and ask. You have
a lot of parents of kid to come up and
will ask the people around like, hey, do you mind
teaching my kid? You know, like this is it's such
a community oriented, community based sports still, so that makes
(32:11):
it so that like regular people can end up at
the Olympics, you know, and to have that taken away
and for the Olympics city and I'm I know there
are nonprofit organizations that help people who have less means
get into other sports, right, Like, I know that they're
but at it's true in its essence, you know, breaking
(32:33):
is that way already and hasn't turned into this like
very money driven world. Yet the fact that it's accessible
also means that we have more diversity in our sport
than we do with some of the others, right, And
so to me, it was such a celebration of that
when we were at the Games, cause you even see
in the dancers and yeah, on the women's side, Asia
like kind of dominated, so you do have a lot
(32:54):
of Asian breakers out there that were like really good,
But on the men's side, you saw so much diversity, right,
And I mean even on the woman side there was
some right at least, like I feel like generally still
a little bit morem than in many of the other sports.
But we're taking that away from the Games. We're taking
(33:14):
that one thing that was added that is accessible, and
so that to me was really disappointing. And then that
and the fact that like the Games did bring more
awareness into our world, it did bring some sponsorship, some
money into our sport, and so you had some of
the bigger brands coming in and sponsoring some of the
(33:35):
like you know, the circuits of breaking circuits, the competitive
circuits that we have, and so that was really nice
because we were just able to do a little bit more,
able to do a little bit more in terms of
getting the word out, getting people in, getting people excited,
and then also paying money to the dancers that were there.
You know, the purse was a little bit bigger for
these events. A lot of times we're going to these
events and the prices like two hundred bucks, and like
(33:56):
that's what we're kind of used to, you know. And
then you have a couple here and there, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Is it difficult to make a living or is this
you feel like, you know, you have to work another
job to provide for yourself while you're doing what you love.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
You absolutely have to work another job. There's a few
people who like maybe own a dance studio and they're
able to, but I mean we're talking just a handful
in the US. It is a little different in other
places where government sponsors dance in art a little more
fully than the United States, But here it's it's so hard.
I mean, even now I'm working as a shining conditioning
(34:37):
coach as a personal trainer, because I want to set
up a business that makes enough money so that I
can open my own nonprofit dance center. But coming out
the Games, I you know, there was no way I
was going to be able to do that on my own.
I didn't financially, I couldn't do it. And then the
other thing is I don't feel comfortable. I mean, this
is a bit of an aside, but I don't want
to take more from the community either, So I want
(34:58):
this accessible in order to do that. You know, it's grants,
it's donations. Yeah, and there's just not a lot of that.
It's hard and.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
So well not a lot of that now with this
political climate, everything's being yanked. So yeah, I feel that
in my bones. And I'm curious now, as a role
model and leader in this space, how are you going
to protect the art form? Because I think about these
younger kids who see this, and I you know, I
(35:29):
never would want them to think, well, I got to
stop doing this because there's no future in it. So like,
as someone who's a trailblazer in this space, you know,
how are you reaching these young kids to keep this
art form alive?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, right now, I'm really
focused on just being able to get the means to
set up a dance center so that I can do
because we don't have anything like that in New York City,
which is the same because it's where it started. We
have a couple dance studios, but no like larger nonprofit
dedicated to what we do. So that's kind of what
(36:09):
I want to get started, so people traveling can come
and learn and share and be part of the community
and stuff like that. But I do think it's on
us as a whole, as a collective to start creating
opportunities because you know, it's been shown that we can't
just wait for someone to come in and give it
to us, right And I mean, like we we knew
(36:32):
better already. But I think so many of us were
hoping that the Olympic Pathway might be something that was
a bit more sustainable. Had it been included in LA
I think there would probably sponsors who would stick around,
you know, because there was so much excitement at the Games,
and I think that a lot of that would have
continued because it was a really like high energy, super
fun event at the Games that is so different from
(36:53):
a lot of the other Olympic sports that and you
have these like cool young people who dress cool, who
have like all this sweat, you know. So it's like
there's so much about it that's like really great for
to brand to get behind. But anyways, you know that's
that's gone, you know, if you have come in and
if you still give me a little money, but you know,
(37:14):
it's really about us creating those circuits to build those
partnerships ourselves. You know, Like I have some connections down
the road. I'd like to use them to potentially fund
some breaking circuits and some programs and things like that
so that we can give back in a different way.
But yeah, I really think it it is on us
to create what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, absolutely, And in this next chapter of your life,
not just an athlete, not just a breaker, Like what
do you see for yourself as sunny? Like what is
what do you feel like is next?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I mean, to be honest, what I've found is and
I've always been this way, and I think some of
it initially was me running away from helping myself. Is
I've always helped others, and I think a little bit
of that was because I didn't believe I was worthy
of it, you know, so you're helping everyone else around
you because that like makes you more worthy, right. Well,
(38:10):
so some of this journey, obviously is still working on
me feeling like I'm enough and reminding myself that I
am I am enough and I am worthy and I
do deserve to be happy. And that's kind of some
of my daily work. And you know, it gets better
most days. Some days you don't have days, and that's okay.
But what I found is I really truly love working
(38:32):
with other people and being part of their journey to
whatever it is that they're looking for, whether it's happiness,
whether it's a more fit body, whether it's sports and competition.
You know, I just love being there on that journey
with other people and helping them. So, you know, the
whole strength coach thing. Initially, I knew I wanted to
do it early on as I was training for the Games,
(38:54):
I didn't realize how fulfilling it would be and how
much I really love not just working with adults but
also kids. I love teaching kids to dance, you know,
all of this. So I just want to be in
other people's lives, supporting, you know, being that like cheerleader
in the back, like you got this, you know, during
your highs and lows, and and so that's kind of
(39:15):
where I see the rest of my life is just
being that person for other people and then for myself.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
We need more people like you in this world, for sure.
And I tell you what, some of the most some
of the most influential people in my life have always
been my mentors and coaches as a kid, Like they
single handedly had the biggest impact in my life. And
(39:40):
I don't say that lightly, and I don't take it lightly.
And I think that's why you and I leverage our
platforms to speak up for the right things to really
help this younger generation. Like there's just so many avenues,
and we have to keep talking about it and reiterating
the importance of leaning in when we're struggling or feeling
(40:02):
alone or feeling overwhelmed, and having the right access to
cope with it healthy, because I know you and I
have not coped with it healthy at all times. And
I with that, Nope, And with that, I think this
is the most important question I'll ask you, and I
ask every single person on this show, what moment in
(40:25):
your life really split you wide open. That changed everything.
That really was the aha, this is it, and I
got to listen, and I'm going to make these changes,
whether sport or life or something in between. What was
that moment for you?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
To be honest, There's been a couple moments in my
life where things have happened and I've just taken like
an abrupt turn in my life. And I'm going to
talk about two, if that's okay. So the first one
was kind of in those dark years in high school.
I remember driving. It was really late at night and
(41:07):
I was driving from somebody's place and I actually started
hallucinating as I was driving, and I think it's because
I was so exhausted. So I was completely sober, just driving,
just tired, and I was seeing things on the road
that were on the road, coming to like a complete
stop in the middle of highway. And I remember that
was the day when I was young, that was the
day that I was like, something is wrong with me.
(41:30):
I don't know what it is, but I need help.
You know. At that time, I didn't seek help because
I didn't know what help even looked like. But I
knew I needed something in my life, you know. So
that's kind of the beginning of when I started digging
a little bit, trying, trying with the tools that I
(41:50):
had then to take care of myself, you know, to
do something about it. And albeit some of the decisions
I made were not the smartest now in hindsight, but
you know, I was doing what I could. And I
mean one of the little things was just like trying
to sleep a little bit more, even though I had
no desire to sleep most nights, just trying to get
myself in bed and go to bed, you know, taking
(42:12):
up when I couldn't, Just just doing like the little
minimal things. But that was really the beginning of my like, oh,
I need to get my mental health and check. And
that happened what I guess, I was driving so like sixteen,
maybe seventeen, and then it was you know, so many
years of trying to figure out what was going on
(42:33):
until you know, I really kind of got a better
handle on it. And then the second really really big
was the Olympic journey, was the announcement of breaking It
wasn't the actual Olympics. It was the realization that I
had been standing in my own way my entire life,
(42:53):
and I was so scared of failing, so scared of
letting myself down that I had taken the safe route
and I was just constantly prioritizing myself second so that
I could do whatever else that the world expected me
to do. That realization was like really crushed me when
I realized that, like, I'm you know, I'm the reason
(43:16):
why I don't dream. I'm the reason why I don't
have big I'm the reason why I never did anything
I ever really wanted to do in life. It was hard,
but getting over that and saying, you know what, this
is the first really big dream that I'm actually going
to go for. It is the Olympics. You know, I
thought it was gonna happen when I was like, what sixteen.
Now here I am like almost thirty six and doing it.
(43:38):
But like, it's never too eight. I'm going to better
myself and no matter how painful it is, like we're
going to We're going to go through this process. And
I think that was another humongous kickstarter for growth because
it really made me face my fears and face all
those walls that I had put up my entire life
(44:00):
and break them down one by one so that I
could show up with the games and have that, you know,
that best moment of my life. Things incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
So yeah, well, Sonny, thank you for your bravery, thank
you for your vulnerability, thank you for sharing your gift
to all of us with such grace and power, and
thanks for coming on to Wide Open. And it has
been an absolute pleasure to watch you, to follow you,
(44:27):
and I wish nothing but the best for you and
opening this safe space for not only yourself, but you know,
for this younger generation wanting to be just like you.
So thank you for coming on Wide Open.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Thank you so much for having me. This is lovely.
I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
All Right, everyone, We'll see you next week on another
episode of Wide Open with Ashland Harris. Wide Open with
Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You can
find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca Correo,
(45:10):
Emily Maronoff, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello.
Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. And I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide
Open with Ashland Harris. Today we are speaking with our
favorite Olympian be girl and first American woman to ever
qualify for breaking an Olympic history, Sonny Choy. Welcome to
Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you, thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, so am. I I know we met. Gosh was it?
I think it was the year before the Paris Olympics
and can at the NBC pop up and use I
was with Sue Bird and you were breaking on stage
and it was just one of the coolest activations I
(00:52):
think NBC is ever done, because usually no offense, it's
so vanilla and the music like we were vibing. Sue
and I were like, Okay, this is so freaking cool,
and gosh, what a whirlwind it's been. Uh really has
clearly changed your life quite a bit. Yeah, I feel
(01:14):
like breaking in the Olympics was such a huge buzz
at the time, both good and bad. And but I'm
curious because I want to dive in and obviously it's
so good to see you again and I'm so excited
to catch up and the listeners to hear what you're
(01:37):
doing and you know where you're going now that it's
you know, the Olympics. Unfortunately, breaking has been removed from
the Olympics in LA which will really dive into because
that makes me so unbelievably sad for you. But there's
so much positivity we can roll into. But first I
really want to start with, like your your origin story,
(01:59):
the beginning, because you do have such a rich story
of who you were before all of this, you know,
fame and press tours and people wanting you probably to
break dance on the side of the road everywhere you go. Yeah,
but yeah, please please tell me, tell tell me and
tell the listeners. Uh you know what it was like
(02:22):
growing up as a young girl in Tennessee and Kentucky.
I'm like, hello, please, yeah, elaborate because like I am.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Dying to know what that was like. Yeah. So I
was born in Tennessee, but we moved to Kentucky when
I was like seven, So you know, I don't remember
much of Tennessee other than like it was a really
small town and my school was like literally in my backyard,
like through a grover tree. This is the kind of
like town that we lived in at the time. So
(02:53):
I actually though while I was in Tennessee. When I
was three, I watched the ninety two Olympic Games, and
apparently I was like hooked onto gymnastics, and I begged
my mom for a month to put me in because
I wanted to win a gold medal at the Olympics.
And so she put me into gymnastics at a really
young age, and you know, she had no idea what
(03:14):
she was doing. So she sent me to my first
class in a tutu, thinking.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
My god, this is like dance right.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So I'm in this little mermaid tutu, probably the only
Asian girl there, showing up like, am I going to
get a gold medal today?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
My mom was like, I don't know what today.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I'm hungry at the beginning. Yeah, so that's where it
all started. I used to drop pictures with the Olympic
rings in the corner, like this was always a childhood
dream of mine. When we moved to Kentucky, we ended
up kind of like accelerating my gymnastics doing this like
back then it was called like TPR the Tops program,
(03:53):
I think. So I was like traveling doing like strength
testing and skills testing, going to these like national camps.
So we're basically like on the road potentially to be
a candidate right for the Olympics. We decided pretty young though,
so I would say like right out of elementary school
going to middle school. We had this conversation of like, well,
(04:15):
are we ready to pull her out of school and
homeschool and actually go this like Olympic track.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Or are we going to go kind of like the
regular route.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And we decided then like, actually we're going to go
the regular route. At that time, you know, societal expectations
had set in and my pictures are no longer Olympic rings.
But I was like, yeah, I'm going to be a
doctor and I'm going to go to Stanford pre med
and like, you know, so we ended up foregoing the
Olympic pathway knowing, you know, like chances are low back
(04:48):
then as an Olympic athlete, like there wasn't much beyond
the Olympics, So it was like what is there after
that for me?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
For my life?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So we ended up kind of going the more traditional
like good middle school, went to a good high school, graduated,
I got into pen and I went to business school
because I figured, you know, at that time, honestly I
didn't like anything and I was like.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, my brother went to business school. I know I
can make money with this.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
The coach at Penn wants me to do gymnastics there,
so that makes it really easy when when I'll get
in and I'll transfer ou to business school if I
really hate it. So I you know, I get to
college and I still don't know what I want to do.
But I'm in, like you know, at the time, like
one of the best business programs in the US, and
I'm just like just just checking the boxes, like doing
(05:37):
the things that I knew I needed to do to
be successful in life. You know, get a good job,
make money, have a family, buy a home, just do
all the things that like the world expected me to do.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I was just on that path, just chugging along. Ye.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So you know, I actually blew up my kne in
high school before I get to college, so I'm backtracking
a little bit, and I ended up having surgery and
then hurting it again when I got back into the
sport and.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
The doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So I ended up having to quit gymnastics before I
get to college. So I was pretty lost at that time.
I had hit some pretty low lows mentally, and I
think just a combination of like burnout, being really lost,
not knowing how to talk about my emotions, like all
of that like really bubbled up. So junior senior year
(06:28):
pretty hard. And then I get to college and I'm
just like out there doing what freshmen do.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Maybe a little extreme, yes, and you know, I'm just
like just just exploring and trying to figure out what
it is that I want to be doing with my life,
you know, or actually at that point, I don't think
I was trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
At that point, I was just trying to run, like
run away, and I stumble into some breakers one night.
They're just dancing on campus and they're basically promoting, you know,
the school club, and I was like, oh, that's cool,
Like they're upside down, like that looks like fun. I
kind of missed this, and so, you know, late night,
I'm not sober, They're like, hey, you want to come
to a class on Friday. I was like sure, sure,
(07:12):
so I went. I tried it, and I was like, oh,
this is fun. So you know, while I'm in college,
I'm breaking on the side, starting to kind of figure
figure out this world and like what my space is
in it, and how to express myself and how to
how to like take down all those barriers that I
had set up, you know, to like live this perfect
life and just be vulnerable. I'm dancing, so doing all that. Meanwhile,
(07:36):
the rest of my life is unfolding. So I graduate,
start working in corporate do that for quite a bit,
just kind of climb that ladder and do what I
need to do to make more money and get you know,
higher up on the ladder, so that checking all the boxes.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Falling in line with the society tells us women to
do correct.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And at the same time, you know, still breaking on
the side, getting better, breaking, starting to travel internationally, starting
to make some money off of it, and just like
kind of explore what's there for me, but never seeing
it as a viable option for me in terms of
like my career, just because you know, dance is hard
already breaking even harder because it's more underground than most
dance styles.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So yeah, I'm just chugging along.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
But to be honest, like I'm miserable every single day
showing up to work and doing a great job. No
one can tell from the outside because I'm always smiling,
but like deep down, I just like I had no purpose.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know, some days it was hard to get out
of bed, like just it was kind of tough.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So when the Olympic opportunity presented itself, initially, actually I
said no because I want to have kids potentially, and
I want to have house, and like I'm saving money
and I'm getting to a point in the next few
years where I feel ready to like look for a
home and to buy in New York. You know, I
was on the track to that life that I I
(09:00):
had drawn up for myself, right, and the Olympics just
put a huge wrench in all that. So initially I said,
I don't think I want to do this. It took
me about six months to come around and actually decide like, okay,
I can't give up all myself again. Like I had
this dream as a kid. I have this opportunity to
now to get out of this life that I don't
(09:21):
like and start a brand new one and in like
such a radically cool way at that, you know, so
like why not? And so that's you know, it wasn't
until I think the beginning or like mid twenty twenty
two is when I decided, like, all right, I'm going
to quit my job in the near future, you know,
save up until then, but I'm going to quit my
(09:42):
job and I'm going to do this full time and
then I'll figure it out after.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
But I'm never coming back to corporate. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sorry, that was like such a long dire tribe. I
didn't realize it trying to take that.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But no, it's great. It's great. You have such a
rich history of your life experiences and I don't want
to skip over too much, and I really would like
to dive into it because there's so much there that
is so helpful for younger you know, kids growing up
who feel the isolation, maybe the racism, maybe the otherness
(10:18):
of being Korean American and a very small Kentucky town.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean, I love this question. So I've thought
about kind of like representation and my like being Asian
a lot in this journey, actually not a lot. Initially,
I didn't think about it at all. I basically like
hd it and tried to pretend it didn't exist for
so long. And it wasn't until Aletts were asking me
(10:43):
about what it's like being Asian? What does representation mean
to me? That I realized that I've been running away
from that question too. For a long time. I think
I was embarrassed of being Asian. You know, I got
made fun of and I would brush it off as
a kid, like I didn't realize that it was is
like technically bullying when people would make fun of me
for being Asian and my eyes and say things like
(11:06):
chingchang whatever, you know in the hallways. To me, I
was just like, that's not even Korean. Why would you
do that? That's so silly. You know, My practical self
was never, like luckily emotionally particularly damaged. But I think
the effect of just knowing like I wasn't like everyone
else was always there and present, and so I feel
(11:26):
like I always tried to fit in, And I think
that's part of the narrative of why I wanted to
do everything the way that like the world expected me
to do things. So I think a lot of that
came from me wanting to fit in, me wanting to
be like everyone else, because I growing up never felt
that way.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I always knew there was something different.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know, like even with my like so, I actually
spoke Korean first before I spoke English, and my mom
thought when I went to school that I didn't speak English,
and she was really concerned when I was off to
kindergarten that I was gonna like be treated differently because
she was concerned I didn't speak enough English. Well, it
turns out I come home after my first day of
(12:08):
school and said, Mom, I'm never speaking Korean again. I'm
only going to speak English. And she was so relieved
that I spoke English. So now I no longer speak
my native language.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I can understand a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I can speak very basic Korean, but all English because
I was just so focused on fitting in, you know,
I just I growing up. I didn't know I was
different until I got to school and realized, oh, I'm
very different.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, And do you feel like that added more pressure
to your burnout? Which we'll talk more about, because I
think we're all experiencing we're in a real serious mental
health crisis, and I'm curious. You know, having immigrants, you
know parents, there's a whole different type of pressure that
comes with that of you know, they've sacrificed so much
(12:57):
for me to be here, I've got to really be successful. Like,
is gymnastics really the path forward? Are they going to
dedicate their life to my craft at such an early age,
are you thinking in real time, like, Wow, the weight
I have on my back is so enormous that it's
unbearable to carry anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
When I was young, I didn't realize that that that
is what it was, you know. When I was young,
it was just I feel like this is what I
should do, you know, like I wasn't able to comprehend
really why I was doing what I was doing. It's
just like it was just the right thing. It was
the only thing right. I just needed to make sure
I was successful and I did things like.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
The right way.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So, you know, I always got good grades, never questioned it.
You know, it was not a question to go to
a good college, Like it wasn't even a question not
to go to college because that's the only pathway forward.
And then it was never a question not to have
some sort of like stable, well paying.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Job after that. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, So I think the pressure was always there, I
just never realized it. And I think some of that
was because we didn't talk about emotions. And to no
fault of my parents, to no fault of yeah, of
my parents, because they grew up in a very very
different time, very different generation. And I'm so grateful for
everything that they did. But like they even to this day,
(14:22):
I think it's sometimes challenging to talk about emotions. And
I'm much more open with like my mom now than
I used to be, so she's aware of, like my
depression and you know, some of the lows that I
go through, and she's aware of some of this stuff
now and she's understanding. But when I was younger, because
I couldn't even begin to talk about it, I didn't
(14:42):
have the words to express I didn't know how to
describe what was going on.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You were young, like you didn't even have the words
to what you were feeling. I can imagine, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
But to not have someone be able to even guide
me so that I could start talking about them, I
think that was challenging. And so I internalized everything instead,
and then just it all kind of bubbled up and exploded,
and it would just do that over and over and
over and over again, and I just never understood why
it was happening.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, And I want to definitely hold space for that,
because your bravery and sharing it and being so open
is so profound and beautiful all at the same time.
Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment after
this brief message from our sponsors. It is such a
(15:36):
scary thing to go through depression. How'd you get through it?
Feeling so alone and unable to articulate? Holy shit, Like
I am really depressed and I am really not well
and I'm alone.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I think within my family's circle, I didn't have people
that I felt like I could talk to you, right,
and even like my siblings. My brothers are at the
house and a little brother was younger than me, so
he didn't quite understand. But I had friends who were
going through similar and I think it was that connection
that was really really helpful because there were a few
(16:14):
friends that I was very open with and that knew
what was going on and we would talk about it.
And I mean I had friends who would stay up
with me, like on messenger back in the day.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh yes, I love it.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
What was your handle?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
What was your handle? First? Before we dive deep into this,
I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I wish I did. I feel like it was actually
something pretty straightforward because I've always been really practical.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Mine was g K the number four life goalkeeper for life,
so embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I mean, there's no like xoxo Asian baby girl in there,
so because that was what a lot of the girls
are doing back then that were like.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh my god, that is so funny.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, sorry, anyways, continue.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
I mean no judgment to people who did that though.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
No, no, no, no, no, to each their own.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But I was just not that girl. But yeah, we
would stay up to like sometimes like three or four
in the morning talking because I was basically like an
insomnia ac, Like I just I couldn't sleep, and despite
being extremely exhausted, I couldn't sleep. I mean, the problem
then was like I was sometimes falling asleep at the wheel,
(17:30):
and I would fall asleep in class. Oh my god,
it's really dangerous. Yeah, there was a lot of like
dangerous stuff happening back then, and looking back, I'm really
grateful that I came out of that all unscathed, because
those are pretty rough years for me. But yeah, I
had other friends that I would share with, and they
(17:52):
were going through very similar I remember one specifically. He
was Asian, so I think we felt kind of a
similar type of press, sure from our families and you know,
just from society in general. So we we would talk
about these things, and you know, we talked about like
(18:12):
literally everything. But I think that that connection is really
what kept me going because it's like, even if I'm
not able to talk with my family, like, there are
people there who who do care. So that was that
was always helpful. And like going to school, it's like
I had a lot of friends there and you know,
it was always nice to see them, and I knew
that they appreciated me, even if they didn't know what
(18:32):
was going on. I mean, like people used to make
jokes in high school, like, oh, I pulled a sonny,
which means like I didn't sleep last night, and it
was like we all because none of us understood what
was happening. I didn't understand what was happening, and I
was always super bubbly and happy on the outside, so
everyone thought like, oh, she's great, like it's just the
thing she does. And I always got you know, straight
(18:53):
a's anyway, so yeah, you know, looking back now, I'm like, man,
that was a little toxic.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But truthfully, what I've learned, because I'm a huge advocate
in the mental health space, like I think the people
who struggle the most are the ones who are so
outwardly bubbly and happy because they have mastered the art
of that hidden identity of darkness that they are not
(19:21):
comfortable enough to share. Like, the most electric people in
my life are some of the most sad depressed people,
and I was one of them. So I don't think
that that's a weird statement to make. I think you
end up having to master the darkness by hiding it.
(19:43):
And I know it was really hard going to college
until you found breaking. Do you feel like when you
finally found breaking it felt like you found oxygen again?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Initially? No, I think initially it was like it was fun,
it was something new, it was something challenging, and it
was something that there was a piece of me that
always knew that I wanted to pursue some sort of
creative outlet. So even in high school, I did like
a fashion design course and I ended up making my
own prom dress and I was just like literally notebooks
(20:17):
and notebooks of like just drawings. You know, I loved it.
Didn't pursue that. Then I get to college and I
actually ended up getting a minor in fine arts and
even consider doing an MFA because I really enjoyed that.
But I was like, you know, there's no it's such
a hard life and here I am checking the boxes
and that's not a box I need to check, So
(20:38):
we're going to forego that. So I always knew there
was a piece of me looking to express myself in
a different way. Breaking was that plus the piece of
gymnastics that I loved, which is that like weightlessness, you know,
the like losing yourself and just relying on your body
to do what it does. So initially there was like
(21:01):
it was I was drawn to it because of the challenges,
and actually it used to frustrate the hell out of
me that I couldn't get in front of people and dance.
I used to just sit in the corner of the
room every day while everyone else practiced and like literally
in like a little ball in the corner of the
room and just watch because I was so scared to
do anything. And that it was like that for a while.
But I knew that this was something that I wanted
(21:21):
to get over. I knew it was an obstacle that
I didn't want to stop me from doing this thing
that I really wanted to participate in. And then there's
something so like a magnetic about watching people genuinely and
authentically be themselves. You know, in any in any space,
but I think with dance because it's your body and
(21:43):
there's this like shared language that transcends like actual verbal language. Right,
There's something so powerful about that that I was like,
I really want to participate in this. There's like a
level of connection that like I've never really felt and
I want to see what that's like.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, and it's so beautiful because it is storytelling through movement.
It is the most purest form of art, and it
moves everyone in a way that is so much bigger
than words, and it's so universal, and I think that
is the beauty and that is the gift that you
(22:18):
continue to give to the world.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
If you ever do you see it that way? Do
you think about that?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I don't think of it as being like I guess
I never think about it that way, but in terms
of like it being something that transcends language, that's like
so basic and primal. You know, like babies do that,
like dance a little bit before they can even talk,
you know, like this is just what we do as humans.
So yeah, I mean, it's absolutely what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm curious the fact that you said you used to
sit in the corner and you were like so terrified
to be open to your performances and your dance and
you know, I assume you were a very shy, smart kid,
but did you like because the gravity of competing at
(23:09):
the Olympics is so massive, Like I know it took
a while to decide, but once you did, you know
you're representing not only yourself but your family, your culture,
like on the biggest global stage, like out there. What
was that Like, what was it like when you stepped
(23:30):
on to that dance floor for the first time? Like
what bring the audience through? What is going through your head?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So for those of you watching video, you're going to
see I'm already tearing up. Every time I think about
that day, I am filled with so much, like but
it's like good emotion, like really positive emotion, because it
was one of the day that I was one of
the days of my life where I was most fulfilled.
And it's not because I was on the Olympic stage.
(24:02):
There's a lot more to it, Like this could have
happened elsewhere. It happened to happen at the Olympics for me,
but basically my entire breaking career I've told myself, I
want to be able to move freely, like I want
to get out of my own way. I want to
turn off my brain, zone in and just be me,
(24:23):
like as authentically me as possible. No guards up, you know,
no like no mask, no nothing, you know. And I
had been working on that my whole life, but every
time I would get down to battle, the little voice
in my set in my head would be like, oh,
not good enough, that was not right, or like, oh
we messed up there. Hey, like what are you doing.
You're definitely taking too long. Get off the floor, You're
not good enough to be here, like whatever. It was
(24:44):
that little voice was always talking, and so that that
voice was always so loud that I never felt like
I was able to be present and you know, they're
all there. As I got better at breaking, that voice
got quieter and it got a little bit more sports.
So it would be maybe like after the round that
(25:04):
that voice would be like, hey, that wasn't very good,
like I don't know why you did that one thing,
and then we kind of didn't hit this whatever. But
in the moment, there were moments where I've been able
to lock in, but yeah, you know, I never as
a breaker, said like I wanted to win this big
battle or I never even wanted to like necessarily travel
internationally get known, Like it was all about just exploring
(25:24):
and being able to be me. And I think that's
what made the Olympic moments so special, because I the
lead up to the Games was rough. I had to
face a lot of my like inner struggles, and I
had to get over those because I wanted to show
up for myself that day. And I think being able
(25:45):
to show up there having so many people that I
love and care for be there to support me wholeheartedly.
I have this picture of like my entire family dead
down team years a gear. Some of them would like
handwritten like team Sunny on their T shirt because they
didn't have time or they weren't able to get their
like T shirts made in time, whatever, all my nieces
there to support, like everybody, to have that level of
(26:10):
support everyone's there in Paris, Like I'm just I'm lucky
that everyone was able to get tickets and show up
and afford to be there to build a team around
me of people who cared about me. My like agient
at that time, my strength coach, my massage therapist, my boyfriend,
just like everybody there to support me, and knowing that
(26:33):
they all didn't.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Care how I did.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
They were just there to support, you know. Having all
of that there and then being able to step on
the stage and for the first time be like, I
don't I don't care about how I do today. I
just want to go have fun and to like really
truly feel that way was so special because it's like
literally the first time in my life where I was like,
nothing else matters. I get to be me and I
(26:56):
get to be celebrated for being me. Yea, So yeah,
I really was amazing experiences.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And I appreciate you being so vulnerable because what I
think the rawness and realness of you sharing. I think
people have no idea the pressures that we as athletes
go through to perform at the highest stage when so
much of our being and our self is telling us
(27:24):
constantly we're not good enough.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah for sure. I mean I almost bypassed all of
this and said I don't I don't want to do
it because my superficial reason was because I wanted to
have all these things in my life, and the Olympics
was going to get in the way. The real reason
was because I didn't think that I could do it.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I didn't want to put all my eggs in this
basket in me. I didn't want to trust in myself.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Because yeah, it's sitting on yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, it's so much scarier to do that than it
is to just like go on this prescribe pathway. And yeah,
I mean the so much of my journey and still
today is about reminding myself that I'm enough. I actually
often wear a bracelet that says I'm enough.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I say that I mean to myself every day in
the mirror, I'm with you, sister. We are in that
together every day in the mirror before my day starts.
And I think it's such a reminder for the audience
out there who's struggling like to literally not think it,
but say it out loud to yourself. I am enough,
and I belong and I am here, and whatever demons
(28:32):
and battles like you face, saying the things out loud,
that is so simple, just I am enough in this moment,
whether good or bad, I am enough. And I think
that's a beautiful thing that you just said. This is
wide open and I'm your host. Ashlyn Harris, Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Living such the height of the height of this paras
Olympics and breaking being you know, it's the first year.
I'm curious when the news hit that break Dancing was
removed from the LA twenty twenty eight, our home country,
Like what I want your honest like reflection, Like I
(29:21):
can imagine heartbreak and frustration and all the things in between,
But what was like when did you find out? What
was the moment? What what did you feel? What was
the first thing you did? Like walk us kind of
through that.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
So there were rumblings and we were pretty sure that
it wasn't going to be in LA included. We actually
like officially officially got the news. We were at the
Olympic Training Center in Colora Springs, and so it was
all of us that we're trying to be on Team
USA at that point, I don't believe any of us
had maybe only a few of us that qualified.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Or maybe not. I don't I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
But we were sitting in a room and they officially,
you know, our our team lead told us breaking wouldn't
be included, and the room just went silent. You know,
we were all devastated, but it was it was just like,
I feel like collective disappointment because breaking comes from communities
(30:21):
that don't have a lot, and we knew at the
end of the day the reason why we weren't included
in LA One of the big reasons is because we
didn't have money to give to the associations that were,
you know, organizing everything. Like, at the end of the day,
a lot of the stuff does come down to money.
We were lucky in France that France put Breaking in
despite us not having money, because France has such a
(30:43):
rich culture of supporting the arts and supporting dance, you know,
so they were willing to do that. But when that happened,
it was just like, you know, it was disappointment, but
also like kind of knew it was going to happen
because this is this is what we do here in
the States. We tend to put money over everything else.
(31:03):
And of course we all knew that the breaking community
doesn't have the money to give. We don't have the
money to put up to get into another And I'm
not saying that like I personally don't know. I don't
believe people like literally paid dollars to put it in
but it's in terms of like sponsorship and stuff, right, Like,
we just don't have money as a community to be
doing that. But what was so disappointing is breaking is
(31:25):
one of the most financially accessible sports in the Olympics,
or at least was in Paris, right Like, we all
still dance in community centers. A lot of people like
practicing their garages and in other people's garages. We go
to like dance spaces where I think the most I
pay for practice is like seven dollars, But you can
find free spaces everywhere. You know, most people don't pay
(31:47):
for lessons. Some do nowadays, especially in other countries, but
in the States, I mean, it's still just like these
big open spaces you go and if you're eager to learn,
you can walk up to someone and ask. You have
a lot of parents of kid to come up and
will ask the people around like, hey, do you mind
teaching my kid? You know, like this is it's such
a community oriented, community based sports still, so that makes
(32:11):
it so that like regular people can end up at
the Olympics, you know, and to have that taken away
and for the Olympics city and I'm I know there
are nonprofit organizations that help people who have less means
get into other sports, right, Like, I know that they're
but at it's true in its essence, you know, breaking
(32:33):
is that way already and hasn't turned into this like
very money driven world. Yet the fact that it's accessible
also means that we have more diversity in our sport
than we do with some of the others, right, And
so to me, it was such a celebration of that
when we were at the Games, cause you even see
in the dancers and yeah, on the women's side, Asia
like kind of dominated, so you do have a lot
(32:54):
of Asian breakers out there that were like really good,
But on the men's side, you saw so much diversity, right,
And I mean even on the woman side there was
some right at least, like I feel like generally still
a little bit morem than in many of the other sports.
But we're taking that away from the Games. We're taking
(33:14):
that one thing that was added that is accessible, and
so that to me was really disappointing. And then that
and the fact that like the Games did bring more
awareness into our world, it did bring some sponsorship, some
money into our sport, and so you had some of
the bigger brands coming in and sponsoring some of the
(33:35):
like you know, the circuits of breaking circuits, the competitive
circuits that we have, and so that was really nice
because we were just able to do a little bit more,
able to do a little bit more in terms of
getting the word out, getting people in, getting people excited,
and then also paying money to the dancers that were there.
You know, the purse was a little bit bigger for
these events. A lot of times we're going to these
events and the prices like two hundred bucks, and like
(33:56):
that's what we're kind of used to, you know. And
then you have a couple here and there, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Is it difficult to make a living or is this
you feel like, you know, you have to work another
job to provide for yourself while you're doing what you love.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
You absolutely have to work another job. There's a few
people who like maybe own a dance studio and they're
able to, but I mean we're talking just a handful
in the US. It is a little different in other
places where government sponsors dance in art a little more
fully than the United States, But here it's it's so hard.
I mean, even now I'm working as a shining conditioning
(34:37):
coach as a personal trainer, because I want to set
up a business that makes enough money so that I
can open my own nonprofit dance center. But coming out
the Games, I you know, there was no way I
was going to be able to do that on my own.
I didn't financially, I couldn't do it. And then the
other thing is I don't feel comfortable. I mean, this
is a bit of an aside, but I don't want
to take more from the community either, So I want
(34:58):
this accessible in order to do that. You know, it's grants,
it's donations. Yeah, and there's just not a lot of that.
It's hard and.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
So well not a lot of that now with this
political climate, everything's being yanked. So yeah, I feel that
in my bones. And I'm curious now, as a role
model and leader in this space, how are you going
to protect the art form? Because I think about these
younger kids who see this, and I you know, I
(35:29):
never would want them to think, well, I got to
stop doing this because there's no future in it. So like,
as someone who's a trailblazer in this space, you know,
how are you reaching these young kids to keep this
art form alive?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, right now, I'm really
focused on just being able to get the means to
set up a dance center so that I can do
because we don't have anything like that in New York City,
which is the same because it's where it started. We
have a couple dance studios, but no like larger nonprofit
dedicated to what we do. So that's kind of what
(36:09):
I want to get started, so people traveling can come
and learn and share and be part of the community
and stuff like that. But I do think it's on
us as a whole, as a collective to start creating
opportunities because you know, it's been shown that we can't
just wait for someone to come in and give it
to us, right And I mean, like we we knew
(36:32):
better already. But I think so many of us were
hoping that the Olympic Pathway might be something that was
a bit more sustainable. Had it been included in LA
I think there would probably sponsors who would stick around,
you know, because there was so much excitement at the Games,
and I think that a lot of that would have
continued because it was a really like high energy, super
fun event at the Games that is so different from
(36:53):
a lot of the other Olympic sports that and you
have these like cool young people who dress cool, who
have like all this sweat, you know. So it's like
there's so much about it that's like really great for
to brand to get behind. But anyways, you know that's
that's gone, you know, if you have come in and
if you still give me a little money, but you know,
(37:14):
it's really about us creating those circuits to build those
partnerships ourselves. You know, Like I have some connections down
the road. I'd like to use them to potentially fund
some breaking circuits and some programs and things like that
so that we can give back in a different way.
But yeah, I really think it it is on us
to create what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, absolutely, And in this next chapter of your life,
not just an athlete, not just a breaker, Like what
do you see for yourself as sunny? Like what is
what do you feel like is next?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I mean, to be honest, what I've found is and
I've always been this way, and I think some of
it initially was me running away from helping myself. Is
I've always helped others, and I think a little bit
of that was because I didn't believe I was worthy
of it, you know, so you're helping everyone else around
you because that like makes you more worthy, right. Well,
(38:10):
so some of this journey, obviously is still working on
me feeling like I'm enough and reminding myself that I
am I am enough and I am worthy and I
do deserve to be happy. And that's kind of some
of my daily work. And you know, it gets better
most days. Some days you don't have days, and that's okay.
But what I found is I really truly love working
(38:32):
with other people and being part of their journey to
whatever it is that they're looking for, whether it's happiness,
whether it's a more fit body, whether it's sports and competition.
You know, I just love being there on that journey
with other people and helping them. So, you know, the
whole strength coach thing. Initially, I knew I wanted to
do it early on as I was training for the Games,
(38:54):
I didn't realize how fulfilling it would be and how
much I really love not just working with adults but
also kids. I love teaching kids to dance, you know,
all of this. So I just want to be in
other people's lives, supporting, you know, being that like cheerleader
in the back, like you got this, you know, during
your highs and lows, and and so that's kind of
(39:15):
where I see the rest of my life is just
being that person for other people and then for myself.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
We need more people like you in this world, for sure.
And I tell you what, some of the most some
of the most influential people in my life have always
been my mentors and coaches as a kid, Like they
single handedly had the biggest impact in my life. And
(39:40):
I don't say that lightly, and I don't take it lightly.
And I think that's why you and I leverage our
platforms to speak up for the right things to really
help this younger generation. Like there's just so many avenues,
and we have to keep talking about it and reiterating
the importance of leaning in when we're struggling or feeling
(40:02):
alone or feeling overwhelmed, and having the right access to
cope with it healthy, because I know you and I
have not coped with it healthy at all times. And
I with that, Nope, And with that, I think this
is the most important question I'll ask you, and I
ask every single person on this show, what moment in
(40:25):
your life really split you wide open. That changed everything.
That really was the aha, this is it, and I
got to listen, and I'm going to make these changes,
whether sport or life or something in between. What was
that moment for you?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
To be honest, There's been a couple moments in my
life where things have happened and I've just taken like
an abrupt turn in my life. And I'm going to
talk about two, if that's okay. So the first one
was kind of in those dark years in high school.
I remember driving. It was really late at night and
(41:07):
I was driving from somebody's place and I actually started
hallucinating as I was driving, and I think it's because
I was so exhausted. So I was completely sober, just driving,
just tired, and I was seeing things on the road
that were on the road, coming to like a complete
stop in the middle of highway. And I remember that
was the day when I was young, that was the
day that I was like, something is wrong with me.
(41:30):
I don't know what it is, but I need help.
You know. At that time, I didn't seek help because
I didn't know what help even looked like. But I
knew I needed something in my life, you know. So
that's kind of the beginning of when I started digging
a little bit, trying, trying with the tools that I
(41:50):
had then to take care of myself, you know, to
do something about it. And albeit some of the decisions
I made were not the smartest now in hindsight, but
you know, I was doing what I could. And I
mean one of the little things was just like trying
to sleep a little bit more, even though I had
no desire to sleep most nights, just trying to get
myself in bed and go to bed, you know, taking
(42:12):
up when I couldn't, Just just doing like the little
minimal things. But that was really the beginning of my like, oh,
I need to get my mental health and check. And
that happened what I guess, I was driving so like sixteen,
maybe seventeen, and then it was you know, so many
years of trying to figure out what was going on
(42:33):
until you know, I really kind of got a better
handle on it. And then the second really really big
was the Olympic journey, was the announcement of breaking It
wasn't the actual Olympics. It was the realization that I
had been standing in my own way my entire life,
(42:53):
and I was so scared of failing, so scared of
letting myself down that I had taken the safe route
and I was just constantly prioritizing myself second so that
I could do whatever else that the world expected me
to do. That realization was like really crushed me when
I realized that, like, I'm you know, I'm the reason
(43:16):
why I don't dream. I'm the reason why I don't
have big I'm the reason why I never did anything
I ever really wanted to do in life. It was hard,
but getting over that and saying, you know what, this
is the first really big dream that I'm actually going
to go for. It is the Olympics. You know, I
thought it was gonna happen when I was like, what sixteen.
Now here I am like almost thirty six and doing it.
(43:38):
But like, it's never too eight. I'm going to better
myself and no matter how painful it is, like we're
going to We're going to go through this process. And
I think that was another humongous kickstarter for growth because
it really made me face my fears and face all
those walls that I had put up my entire life
(44:00):
and break them down one by one so that I
could show up with the games and have that, you know,
that best moment of my life. Things incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
So yeah, well, Sonny, thank you for your bravery, thank
you for your vulnerability, thank you for sharing your gift
to all of us with such grace and power, and
thanks for coming on to Wide Open. And it has
been an absolute pleasure to watch you, to follow you,
(44:27):
and I wish nothing but the best for you and
opening this safe space for not only yourself, but you know,
for this younger generation wanting to be just like you.
So thank you for coming on Wide Open.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Thank you so much for having me. This is lovely.
I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
All Right, everyone, We'll see you next week on another
episode of Wide Open with Ashland Harris. Wide Open with
Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You can
find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca Correo,
(45:10):
Emily Maronoff, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello.
Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. And I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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