August 29, 2024 • 41 mins
We’re back for a very special episode! It’s been a year since you last heard from us and so much happened. Thousands of people have listened to the show and continue to keep the dialogue about Laura’s life and legacy alive. Glynnis and Jo published books. But perhaps most importantly, the Little House on the Prairie TV show turned 50! To prepare for this momentous anniversary in early September (and Glynnis’ 50th birthday), Glynnis and our producer Emily got together to share memories from the road and reflect on the lessons we learned from making this show that we still think about every day. Plus, they share never before heard clips from the road trip that started it all and from interviews with some of the most beloved Little House actors who still play a huge role in keeping Laura’s legacy alive.
Buy Glynnis' book, I'm Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself, and Jo's book, The Sicilian Inheritance!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The fiftieth was coming. Ah, that's gonna be gay on. Hi, Glennis.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We are back after a year of Wilder finishing releasing
all of its episodes.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Emily, we're back. It's been a year since Wilder was
released into the wild, and it's been two years since
we were on the road, and three weeks from now
is the fiftieth anniversary of the television show premiering on NBC.
So we thought it would be a really fun time
to reconnect and sort of look back on our whole
(00:39):
podcast making experience and reflect on it and also give
you guys some of the outtakes that didn't make it
into the final podcast. Okay, So Emily, Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
This year because the original premiere of Little House came
out in March. As you heard Alison say at the
top of this show, they're having past reunions, you know,
at all the different locations of the houses.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
We felt left out.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We wanted to have our own little reunion, and we're
missing our fearless executive producer, Joe Piazza because she is
off on her own other adventure or road trip or something,
who knows what, somewhere, but she does have a little
message for you, so we just wanted to play.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
That, Hey'll, I miss you. I miss being on the
road with you. I actually can't believe that it's been
a year since we made this podcast. And it's funny
because I've been on the road again, traveling on book
tour for the Sicilian Inheritance, and every single place that
(01:48):
I go all over the country, people ask me about
the Wilder podcast, and people have their own stories of
Laura Ingalls Wilder and how much she touched them and
how much she inspired them. It just reminds me how
big Laura looms in our collective American imaginations and our mythologies.
(02:15):
She's a force. Look, no one has forgotten Laura, but
I do feel that we got to kind of bring
her back into the zeitgeist and get people talking about
her about the good, the bad, the ugly, the inspirational
in a way that I really think she would have appreciated.
(02:36):
I miss it. I miss you, guys. I'm going to
go watch some Michael Landon taking off his shirt and crying.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Now it's funny.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
On my phone in the last few weeks comes up
the photo memories and can you believe it was more
than two years ago? We were on the road for
this podcast. It keeps sending me photos of us and
just met South Dakota with you, like with the mics
and us standing in front of the cottonwood trees and
at the pageant.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
And I'm like, wow, it's already been a year.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And then I realized, no, it's already been two years. Yeah,
and then realizing like, the podcast has been out for
over a year, which is amazing because it feels like
another lifetime that it came out. I don't know if
that's just the news cycle we've been living in America
this year, but it feels like wildly distant and it
(03:33):
was even though it was such a huge undertaking and
such like a joyful undertaking. I don't know. Does it
feel like that to you?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, it feels like there's two separate timelines, and there
was the making of the podcast and then the releasing
the podcast. Everything we talked about has been so relevant
in the past year with the crazy news cycle. It's like,
there's not it really a day that goes by that
I don't think about all of the things that we
saw and discussed in the entire show.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I feel like the more distance we get from this
podcast the prouder I am of it. It's such a
monumental undertaking and how fortunate we were to drive around
the country and be in all those different places. So anyways,
this is basically we're doing a fiftieth annivers three Little
House in the Prairie TV Show special episode, and also
(04:21):
just congratulating ourselves on a podcast that we really read of.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And on that note, just speaking of the road and
speaking of everything that initially surprised us. As you can
imagine listeners, there is so so many more hours of
tape than what you actually heard go into the show.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It's one of the sad parts when you're making this
as some of your favorite characters and your favorite places
we went to or things that we learned just couldn't
make it into the show.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I was always the one being like, can we slide
this in? Can we slide that in? And you're like,
this is one episode. It cannot be four hours long
because a you recorded everything on the road, Like it's
not an easy thing to always have everything miked for
hours every day, but like, we got so much good stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But yeah, I think first I really wanted to do
justice to all of the people in the towns who
are benefiting off of Laura tourism, whether that's being dedicated
to managing the houses, or running the pageants, or even
just like the people who run the restaurants and the
cafes in this town that yeah, they owe a lot
(05:30):
of the most of their revenue in the summer probably
to Laura tourism. And talking to them, it always kind
of astounded me that they weren't sick of it, and
they weren't that you know, you saw like these usually
generations of like mothers and children and you know, family
businesses of people that were just really dedicated to the cause.
(05:52):
I think there was one good example of that in
Pepen Lake Pepin and Wisconsin, the town which was a
cute little vacation town and was.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
The first place where we really began to understand that
people who lived in these places but weren't necessarily working
directly with the houses all had positive feelings about little
House and Laura and what and what her legacy had
brought to the town, which I thought was interesting because
I could see a possibility of or the potential to
be sort of resentful or tired of her. And meanwhile,
(06:20):
I think everybody loved it.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Our very first stop was this amazing cafe, and that
was where we learned to just start asking everyone what
they thought of Laura. This is one of our initial
conversations with people to just get a sense of how
the books and living in a place that where Laura
lived has impacted their lives and their business. And the
name of this cafe is the Homemade Cafe. Just to
give them a.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Shot if you are ever they are.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They had they had great pie, amazing pie.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Oh they had the best pie.
Speaker 7 (06:51):
Well, good, good, awesome, she's awesome show.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
I'm just curious that how much how many people through
here for the house, for the for the to get
it a lot?
Speaker 7 (07:03):
How do you even estimate?
Speaker 5 (07:04):
Yeah, a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Then I have a sticker on the green sticker it
says I was hit Laura's or something like that.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
And then they got that museum down here, so I said,
you know, usually they'll go water the other and then have.
Speaker 7 (07:16):
You been at the museum.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
We're cutted there.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
We came here first.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
That's awesome. And I told them to go down by
the lake. Yeah, it's beautiful here.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, So did you grow up like surrounded by Laura
that you were aware of her for ever forever.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
I read those books I read when I read them
when I was Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, did you ever read them?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
That you ever read those books?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And did you watch the TV show?
Speaker 7 (07:41):
Oh yes, I've never missed it.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, did you too?
Speaker 7 (07:44):
Yeah, my mom always watched it, so and my granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
It's all about Morgan's Yeah, it was wed.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
And the people you get here would like is it
sort of an international crowd and definitely yes?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Oh yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
All over, I said, a lot of them.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
You we have the wedding wedding venues here too. We
have two big wedding venues, so I said, we get
it from all over?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Really, Oh yeah, is this like a vacation, not a
like a it's more of a tourist It kind.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Of shuts down in the winter.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
Now it's a tourist destination. It never used to be,
never used to be. It is now we have a
tourism board.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yes, yes, is that because of Laura or Hartley?
Speaker 7 (08:23):
I'm sure in the wedding venues, did you guys like,
what did you love about Laura?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Would you ever feel like suffocated by her?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's just sort of a reality.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
No, no, I.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
Loved it, but all of it. I love the books.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, I just like the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
How they made.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
It through all those tough times, and you know, and
they were very close family. Yeah, you know that's hard anymore.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
You don't have that a lot anymore.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Does the Mississippi Freeze is pet Lake Pepin Freeze?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It does because that's the end of the opening of
the house and the pairs they're going across.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
The frozen water. It exactly does.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, And when we were driving down but we were
all remarking.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
On how much bigger Mississippi appears when you're driving beside it.
Then maybe it's huge, Yeah, and pretty fast flowing, I think, right.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Yeah, to drive across there with just pantrified.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Used to drive across the across here to say thank
you so much for speaking with us.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I have a terrible voice.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You know, you have an amazing voice.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Not when it recorded.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
That's what I think.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
And I've made a career of making pods.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Appreciated, you know, going to these pageants, we talked about
them putting on these big shows and like the kids
from the town playing out scenes from the book, and
sometimes a mix between the book and the TV show
but there was also uh like fun little communities that
we encountered, Like, I mean, we are just coming out
(09:54):
of the Olympics, and my favorite thing in the world
is like the more niche sports like archery, artistic swimming,
these things. I would say, like the Mansfield Fiddle Off
was my delightful, little like niche performance competition of the
road trip.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Good morning to y'all, and welcome up to the fiddle
off contest here.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
It's gonna be here out most of the day.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Remember in the fiddle competition, there was like the there
was the tiny category, and then like the junior category,
and then the adults. And I just remember must have
been like a eight or nine year old girl going
up there and just slighing, just killing.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
All, just owned the whole competition. And also people had
driven I mean, Mansfield's not that close to anything except Springfield,
but like people had driven distances to come there and compete.
These people were serious about their fiddle talents, which they
should be. They were incredible. Mansfield was delightful. When I
chase that guy across the back to across the field
(10:54):
who was carrying pause fiddle, I was like, oh my god,
what is it like? To hold pause, fiddle. You're just
wandering around like the most valuable and a lot of
people's lives, a lot a lot of you think it's
worth emotionally priceless. I don't think you could put a
price on Yeah, that's a terrible like I can't even
(11:20):
grasp painting.
Speaker 6 (11:21):
It was also.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Thinking of remember when we were in Burr Oak and
they had the competition of the A. Laura and Almonso competition,
uh costume competition, but that people who won it was
almost like a Miss America set up, like people who
won had responsibilities of visiting schools like it was and
bur Oak isn't even it is so tiny, it's not
(11:42):
even incorporated, Like it's literally like a postage stamp of
a handful of buildings, and they held this competition and
had really serious responsibilities to it. I just, yeah, that
should be in the Olympics. Maybe we should, like, if
they're gonna put break Dance in the Olympics, we should just,
you know, petition the Olympics to consider our little house contests.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that I still can't get
over about the road trip is we covered so much
ground just going from Wisconsin to Minnesota to South Dakota,
and then we ended up going over to Wyoming just
to take in that stretch of the Americana of it all.
And that was the first time I had seen that
(12:23):
part of the country. And besides just being wowed by
the bad lands, like I think, I just said wow
the entire time we were driving through it.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It was the first time that it really hit me
that I had only seen mythology of America, like almost
have only seen like the bastardization of it in old
Westerns and all of that, and I had never seen
the actual thing. And you realized, why, oh, yeah, that
that is so amazing. I get why rich, greedy white
(12:57):
men just like wanted to destroy this place and make
money off of it. But it is and which it's tragic,
because it is some of the most beautiful places I've
ever seen.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
America is incredible. And I mean, again, going back to
driving across it, I think we so many Americans and
so many people around the world are sort of fed
the postcard version of it that becomes so familiar in
two dimensional and sometimes a caricature, that when you actually
go there, to any of these places, it is gobsmackingly
(13:29):
beautiful and powerful, and you're like, oh, it is an
incredible country and it is gobsmacking and breathtaking and seeing
it firsthand feels so necessary to me actually.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And smack dab in the middle of that. After you
get out of the bad Lands, you get like a
little bit cartoonish Disneyland Old West location. Do you want
to tell everyone about Waldrug? Which is maybe the thing
that I'm most disappointed couldn't make it into the show,
because there wasn't really right.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I forget that Waldrug didn't make it. So the first
time I went to Waldrug was the first time I
went to Waldrug was in two thousand and two, before
the Internet, and the way I came to it was
west to east. And for Waldrug, there's all these hand
painted billboards for miles and miles and miles saying like
come to Waldrug, five cent coffee, come to Waldrug, all
(14:18):
these things, and so the build up is so extraordinary
and you pull in and it's just this like wild
caricature of a wild West town with all these buildings
and like kitchy stuff and that crazy dining room and
it's sort of the entryway to rapid city, which has
(14:39):
a bit of that same vibe to it, that very
like Mount Rushmore kitchiness that is very, very very American.
And also in all it's the Las Vegas of you know,
the wild West and with all the problems that come
(15:00):
with that.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I mean, you go from Wall Drug which it does
feel like the Disneyland of rest stops, like it literally
has animatronics and if you go into the gift shop
there's there's a glass wall and behind it is animatronics
of just old like Western Western men, just like play
in banjo and singing a song.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
When I say it's so American, it's like it's both
the what we talked about, like the extreme breathtaking beauty
and openness and possibility and history and also the worst
of America in terms of the extermination, the attempted extermination
of Native Americans, of the Buffalo, of the natural wonders,
(15:45):
and also the overlayer of you know that that kitch,
that sort of Las Vegas, but the West kitch and
so's it holds both of these things which are both
or all of these things which are all so American
in the same place. And I think that is the
real intensity and magic of it. And I don't mean
(16:08):
magic in sort of like a frivolous way. I mean
like deep magic of being out there and to some extent,
you know, I think speaks to the enduring a peal
of Little House because she's holding all of those things
in the book at the same time too.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
What are your feelings coming up on the fiftieth anniversary
and your fiftieth birthday.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I feel great about turning fifty. There's something very charming
for me and having the fiftieth anniverse, Like the show
premiered one week after I was born, and so there's
something delightful to me about having it. It's always existed,
but like it's always been around, and I just think, oh,
it's both a short period of time and such a
(17:18):
long period of time. I just had this memory of
remember when we got to Desmet and we were in
the B and B, and I hadn't watched the show,
Like we've been so heavy in prep that I hadn't
seen the show in a while. Remember when we turned
it on the TV when we were in the B
and B, and like we're immediately engaged with it, Like
immediately our heads whipped around and we were pulled in
(17:38):
and it's just a reminder, like it was such a
good show. We talked about all the problems with it
as problems with everything but ban the music.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Pah.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
One of the surprise takeaways for us, anyway, when we
started doing our interviews for this podcast, which we did
so many interviews before we went out on the road,
was how many of the people who loved the book
and had written about the book and were scholars of
the book disliked the TV show and primarily disliked Michael Landon,
which I thought was fascinating because obviously we talked about this.
(18:12):
I loved both, but Michael Landon in particular seemed to
be po His version of paw Ingles seemed to be
a flashpoint for a number of people.
Speaker 9 (18:21):
I never liked the series ever, because it didn't look right.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
You know, Michael Landon obviously looks nothing like Pa.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
It was so clearly an ego project for him that
I just never liked it.
Speaker 10 (18:37):
I actually didn't like it because it was so different
paw In Like, I was like, who is this clean shaven?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
I just phoned Michael Landon. I just could not relate
to him. And plus they never moved out of walnut growth.
They completely eliminated South Dakota.
Speaker 10 (18:55):
You know, he's such a kind of preening presence in
a way that I think would have been horri fine
to Laura Ingles Wild. I think she would have been
dumbstruck at that portrayal of her beloved father.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Lover hate. What Landon did with Charles Ingalls, like Michael
Landon is one of the main reasons that everything still persists.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
The TV show gave the books a whole new life
and continues to do so because it's on TV all
the freaking time.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And to my atten delight, Yeah, yeah, why it's been
on my mind is Tim Watz, the VP candidate with
Kamala Is. He's not from man He's not from Mancato,
but he spent He's from Nebraska, but he spent most
of his adult life in Mankato before becoming governor. Which,
(19:51):
as people who listen to the podcast know, there's an
entire episode where we're primarily in man Cato, and people
who watch the television show know that they're always going
to man Cato to buy something or sell something or whatever.
And then the wagon falls off the side of the road.
And someone almost dies and like Mary's glasses set the
whole place on fire, like Mankato figures into this as
a destination. But as I was thinking about, you know,
(20:13):
Rebecca Tracer, who was on the podcast, wrote a piece
for New York Magazine recently about the different versions of
masculinity the Republicans are providing and the Democrats are providing
and talking about sort of the Tim Waltz masculinity, and
in some ways it really reminded me of the Michael
Landon version of masculinity. Not that Tim Waaltz is taking
(20:35):
off his shirt and like glossing up his pecks or whatever,
but like the masculinity the ability to be to provide
an idea of masculinity that also allows for emotion and sensitivity.
And Michael Landon's paw ingles was like, as we know
and have discussed, was crying in nearly every episode as
(20:57):
like a show of strength.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
And it really.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's interesting because the show itself, I think appealed in
its day to conservative groups, and we know Ronald Reagan
it was his favorite show, but we're obviously in a
much different time of what who and what gets to
find as conservative And I was just like there's something
a little tim Waltzy about Michael Landon's Paw Ingles and
maybe vice versa, and it seems like it just struck
(21:23):
me as so interesting, especially with the like man Cato connection,
So MU should write that the Mancato connection of Charles
of Paw, of Michael Landon's Charles Ingles and Governor Tim
Waltz running for VP.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I think we've got our finger on the pulse with
this one. And I think with the anniversary of the
TV show and Tim Waltz, maybe there's maybe there's a
whole other season here, six Degrees of Separation, just man
Cato edition. Well, in honor of the Vivia the anniversary,
we did just want to bring you some more snippets
of conversations we had with the cast that all of
(22:00):
them were completely amazing, like exceeded all expectations. Also will
shout out all of their books if you have. If
you're a fan of the TV show even a little bit,
I recommend especially Alison Aringram's book. But with Alison Aringram,
I mean we talked to her for well over an hour.
And if you're thinking of iconic Nelly Olsen episode, a
(22:21):
big fan favorite, that we didn't really talk at all
about in our TV episode is Bunny Oh.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
That I love that episode, Oh Bunny.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
We did talk to Melissa and Alison about the making
of that episode and people's reactions to it, and we're
going to play some of those clips side by side,
and I love hearing them talking about it because that's
where you can also hear their deep friendship come through.
Melissa Gilbert and Alison Aringram, despite being very believable enemies
(22:51):
on screen, are the best of friends, and it delights
me every time they talk about it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So do you hear about the most And what was
your favorite episode of the show.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Bunny where I go down the hill in the wheelchair?
Speaker 9 (23:06):
I hear about Bunny and the race. People really dig
the wheelchair push down the hill.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
That's the only time my mother walked into the family
room and said Laura seems mean and I was like,
Laura's amazing, and my mother said, I don't think that
was a nice thing to do and then exited the room.
Speaker 9 (23:26):
Well, Laura was pushed to the brink, but I did
pretend to be paralyzed and ruin everyone's life.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
In most episodes, Nellie does things to ruin Laura's life
and make her miserable. But in Bunny's the only episode
Nelly's insane behavior actually impact everyone. So, yeah, she has
it common. She has it common.
Speaker 9 (23:49):
And I'll tell you Alison got her revenge many years ago.
I had to go in for a colonoscope and she
took me, and when it was over, they wouldn't let
me walk out of the surgery center. I had to
go out in a wheelchair and she pushed it, and
she kept threatening to shove me down a number of
(24:09):
different hills that day, even though I didn't. I said, I,
you know something I fault.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I didn't write it. Tell them people let me do that.
Speaker 9 (24:17):
The other thing I hear about a lot too, is
the mud fight. People like a lot when Alison and
I got physical.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
We hear that from a lot of fans, and I
think it was having girls express sort of like complicated
emotions to each other and that jealousy and competition, which
felt very recognizable at that age.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
I think the other thing that that informed those those performances,
and maybe the audience was getting it subliminal, subliminally, was
that we really loved each other dearly. And I've always said,
you know, you don't really have to necessarily get along
all that well with someone you're doing a love scene with,
but boy, you have to love and trust the person
(24:57):
you're doing a fight scene with.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
We thought it was so funny because we bonded right away,
and then the idea that regularly every few episodes we'd
hate each other in the face was like, it's awesome, Like, oh.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Yeah, fight scene coming up.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
And it was funny because like the very first fight scene,
they were very careful and there was a stunt girl
to do one of the falls so I wouldn't hit
my head. And then but like after that they went
and we pretty much were choreographic our own fights and
they just didn't need stunts for that. The mud fights
all us, they're stunk with that, the famous mud fight.
They're like, yeah, you guys got this whatever, and they're
(25:33):
just like, do do whatever the hell you want to do.
And we did, and we had so much fun, and
we thought it was so funny to play these mortal
enemies and do all this terrible stuff. And then but
it was weird because these scenes right me saying things
and she's crying. It's like and we're going out for
(25:54):
slurpees later.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Other favorite actor to just learn more about her story
was Karen Grassley and how her she as a person
was so polar opposite of Caroline Ingles, and she was
part part of the free sex movement. She was in Berkeley,
she was an actor, she was like on these things.
And also I think if you read her book, which
(26:20):
which I highly recommend, she talks about her entire life
and if you have any interest in you know, sixties
arts and counterculture, definitely read it.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah, it was not progressive where Caroline Ingles was. And
I think it's interesting though, because I don't know. I mean,
she played the character that was written for her on
a show that was huge, but ilo The Waltons were
on at the same time, and the mother in The Waltons,
that character was much more feminist, you know she And
so that is one of the major issues with Michael
(26:52):
Landon was he was open minded in so many ways,
but not about grown women. It's just worth pointing that
out because I think she was in a tough position
of making those decisions as a working actor to get
that show that sets you up for life and allows
a lot of choices.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
The little Woman had never been my goal, and so
there were times when the choices offered to Carolyn in
the script wrinkled. Let me give you an example, and
this is not at all a criticism. This is just
an example of how Michael knew his vision and he
(27:35):
knew what he wanted and in fact was well connected
to his audience. Early on. This is Carolyn has the
scene in the morning of finishing those braids and getting
those scrambled eggs on, and packing those lunches and rescuing
(27:56):
the three year old who's climbing up the stairs and
keeping her from putting her hands by the fire, and
finally the girls have their coats on and their little
lunches and they're going out the door. And my reaction was, oh,
thank goodness we did. And Michael said, no, you look
(28:19):
out the door, you watch them going, and you smile
because they're so lovely. And that's what we did. So
there were times when I couldn't influence what I believed
about the hard work that a mother does, that a
(28:40):
woman cooking on a fire does, But as much as
I could, I tried to influence the way the writers
would see her, and I was happy that in the
end many of them got it. They got it?
Speaker 3 (29:02):
What are your favorite episodes with respect to them getting
it well?
Speaker 8 (29:07):
Olsen versus Olsen where the women all go on strike.
That was our idea a friend of mine and I,
and she consequently became a staff writer on Little House. Yeah,
I was very proud that Chris Abbott came on, and
then I think it was our very close to our
(29:29):
final show, if not our final show, where Laura and
I have a nice scene where we acknowledge our contribution
and she says something like they couldn't have done it
without us. But you know, I respect also this traditional
role that women have played, and I mean, for God's sake,
(29:53):
these women who helped settle the country. They were so strong.
When I read this book called Pioneer Women, it said
that if a woman at that time lost her husband,
she just went on. But if a man lost his wife,
(30:16):
he wrote immediately for a Maile lord a bride because
he simply could not handle it alone.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Someone that you might not expect was as bad as
in her day as she was because she's so perfect
and loving and warm on the show is Charlotte Stewart,
who was Miss Beetle, and we got to meet her
in Mansfield pretty much by accident. We were in Mansfield
during Wilder days. She was kind of the big guest
that they had, and she was there to do signings
(30:48):
and everything, and we got invited to a little reception
where we got to sit down and speak to her.
So we're gonna that is why this tape might be
a little noisy, the tape that we're about to play you.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
She was delightful.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Alison Arngrim, You know, she is at all of the
conventions and everything. And when she first described to us
people's reaction to Charlotte, she said, it's in line. It's
men in eraser Head t shirts crying to her and
telling them how much they loved her as this beetle
while they're in their full like David Lynch, get up.
Because she worked with David Lynch.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
She was a favorite of David Lynch. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Was it strange in the seventies to be cast.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
As sort of a very tradition and a very traditional
female role.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
I meanwhile, I was smoking dope at home, yes, and
then an eraser the movie rape in m I right
about the eraser Head eraser Head, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
Well I was doing it at the same time as
I did the episode of The Waltons because David Lynch,
as a student filmmaker, had no bounds on how late
you worked. You know, we used to shoot all night long.
That's when he preferred to shoot. We'd show up at
eleven o'clock at night and shoot all night. So I
would finish at six in the morning, and if I
(32:09):
had a job, I would have to run home or
change or something and get to the studio. So it
happened to be I was doing The Waltons at the time.
So I came staggering into Warner Brothers where they were shooting,
and I watched it the other night it was on,
and I watched it and I thought, oh no, that
scene is coming on because I could not remember my lines.
(32:34):
I was so tired and.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Like playing if you were saying, like playing like a
traditional misfeto was fairly traditional and then and then, but
you were like a brown up woman in the seventies,
an actress in Hollywood. I mean, that just feels like
I'm sort of night and day.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
I'll tell you I was more connected with rock and
roll than I was Hollywood. I was never very popular
in Hollywood at the time that I got the part
I had a clothing store called the Liquid Butterfly. It
was on Santa Monica Boulevard, and it was rock and
roll the across across the hall. I was in a
(33:13):
building on Los Angele called the Pure Thoughts Building, and
it was the office of Elliott Roberts, who managed Joni Mitchell,
Neil Young, Crosby Stills, Nashing Young, you know, Jackson Brown.
So I was in the middle of rock and roll
for a lot of that time because I was dating
the agent that managed them all. So I was backstage
(33:37):
at rock and roll more than I was in Hollywood.
I never was in Hollywood. I never got invited to
any Hollywood parties.
Speaker 8 (33:44):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
And then when I got Little House on the Prairie,
it was like people in Hollywood went, what little House
on the what? Oh how boring? Well guess what, we're
still on the air. Yeah. Yeah, we got put down
a lot. Really oh yeah, and we got put down
(34:05):
a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But also because I.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Mean people still today are like, oh that was so
wholesome and a little too mushy, but like it tackled.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Some big issues. And I meet people all the time
who I remind them of when they used to watch
the show with their grandparents, you know, and they get
very emotional. Good.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
We drive to Memphis tomorrow evening and then we're going
to Graceland Sunday.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
To four hour drive.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
But we flight.
Speaker 6 (34:36):
It's hard getting flights back and forth to New.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
York to this area.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
You know.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
I worked with no I did what was that?
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Like?
Speaker 5 (34:43):
I did a movie called Speedway, and I have been
a guest at Graceland. It's pretty amazing. It was in
the sixties. I was expecting something totally different. I thought
he was going to be this, you know, look me
up and down and be with his guys. You know,
it's on trush. Nobody was there. He was by himself.
Colon Parker wasn't even there. So it was a director
(35:06):
and me and a girl that was playing his girlfriend
in the scene. They were in a convertible. They come
to a drive in and I wait. I'm a waitress
and I wait on them at the drive in and
he's ordering all this special stuff and I burst into
tears and tell my boyfriend. You know, my boyfriend, he
can't afford anythinking of you, you know. Anyway, he ends
(35:27):
up paying for my wedding, and it gives me a
big wedding and all of that stuff. So it was fun.
We were there always worked with him for two days.
And what he did was when we broke from shooting
the drive in, he went over and sat down, and
I don't know what happened to the girl. She took
off somewhere and he asked the assistant director to bring
(35:49):
over another chair and he sat sat it down beside
him and he said, come here, and I sat down
and he took my hand and he started telling me
about his mother. WHOA And I'm sitting there. I'm twenty
five years old. I'm, you know, young enough to remember
him as a big, big, big deal. And do you
(36:11):
tell me about Gladys and when he went in the
army and they wouldn't let him come home to see
her when she was sick. And I was like, holy shit,
Elvis is holding my hand.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, needed someone to talk to.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
Honestly, that was because we were there.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
I was there.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
It was funny that we found out we had absolutely
no clue she had ever worked with Elvis, and we
were actually going to be on our way to Graceland,
like in the next day or so.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
What do you think was your favorite part of doing
this whole podcast. That's a big question, because this is.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
A yeah, I'm I mean the road trip, my favorite
part was going to a random place, even the places
that were a little more out of the way, like
pass South Dakota or going from Missouri over to Tennessee.
When we would just start having conversations with someone, make
sure in every conversation to bring up lor Engles Wilder,
and usually someone did have a connection with her. It
(37:19):
was the serendipitous thing of yeah, she is everywhere.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, I'm trying to think what my favorite part was.
I think my favorite part was I think Pepin surprised
me the most. And then our drive from Heuron to Buffalo,
Wyoming because it's the emptiest part of the country, and
when Ranger Tanya actually was one of my most favorite
parts of our road trip because I think she was
such a surprise and such a delight. And so that's
(37:46):
the word I'm looking for, reaffirming or.
Speaker 8 (37:49):
I'd like to begin.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Where I'd love to begin is in fourteen ninety two,
Pelma says the ocean blue, a four hundred year resistance up.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Until this is like a bravery to the way she was,
you know, talking about the history at the Battle of
Little Big Horn site, and she's just she was so
delightful when she got on the podcast with us, So
she was one of my favorite parts. And then I
think in the recording when we moved to CDM Studios
in terms of like actual work experience and having such
(38:17):
a high end facility and working with such kind people, like,
I think it comes through on the podcast that we're
actually in the recording of it, we're having a lot
of fun too, and working with so many people who
took such great care to make sure that the product
was high quality.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, I do want to give a big shout out
to all of our amazing producers and editors and mixers
that worked on this, because I'll say it a million times,
podcasts are not easy to make, especially this kind of podcast,
and it takes it really does take a village. And Yeah,
coming into CDM and immediately getting more ears on things
and more opinions is always a good thing. It shows
(38:55):
you where you're where you're coming through, not coming through.
It gives you validation that like, yeah, this is interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
It was such a team effort and everyone on the
team took such great care with the whole podcast. There's
so much depth to all of the intelligence and attention
to detail and determination to make this really good that
came through in the final product that I just want
(39:21):
to make sure that people are aware like this this
was a huge undertaking and everybody involved in it was
willing to go the distance with it, which is amazing because,
as Joe and I talked about endlessly, that degree of support,
you know, is rare, not just in podcast world, but
in like media, creative or otherwise in general, and so
(39:45):
we were so fortunate to be able to have that
backing for this project which needed it.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so grateful that we got to make
this and then it gives us a chance to sit
here and chat. So thank you for chatting, Glennis.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
This was so and thank you to everyone who listened
to this podcast and provided feedback positive or otherwise. It's
so gratifying to have something you worked this hard on
be engaged with, and.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
We're so.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Thankful that people have taken the time to listen to it.
This is not this isn't this podcast isn't undertaking as
a listener too, So thank you everyone. We're just we
wanted to come back and follow up basically to say
that like, here's extra stuff, and also we're so grateful
that it resonated.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
Thanks everyone for listening.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
This episode was hosted by Glennis McNicol and me Emily Maronoff.
It was produced by me mixing and mastering Gune.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
I'm a Heath Frasier.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Now and now. It can never be a long time ago.
It's just two years ago.
The fiftieth was coming. Ah, that's gonna be gay on. Hi, Glennis.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We are back after a year of Wilder finishing releasing
all of its episodes.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Emily, we're back. It's been a year since Wilder was
released into the wild, and it's been two years since
we were on the road, and three weeks from now
is the fiftieth anniversary of the television show premiering on NBC.
So we thought it would be a really fun time
to reconnect and sort of look back on our whole
(00:39):
podcast making experience and reflect on it and also give
you guys some of the outtakes that didn't make it
into the final podcast. Okay, So Emily, Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
This year because the original premiere of Little House came
out in March. As you heard Alison say at the
top of this show, they're having past reunions, you know,
at all the different locations of the houses.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
We felt left out.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We wanted to have our own little reunion, and we're
missing our fearless executive producer, Joe Piazza because she is
off on her own other adventure or road trip or something,
who knows what, somewhere, but she does have a little
message for you, so we just wanted to play.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
That, Hey'll, I miss you. I miss being on the
road with you. I actually can't believe that it's been
a year since we made this podcast. And it's funny
because I've been on the road again, traveling on book
tour for the Sicilian Inheritance, and every single place that
(01:48):
I go all over the country, people ask me about
the Wilder podcast, and people have their own stories of
Laura Ingalls Wilder and how much she touched them and
how much she inspired them. It just reminds me how
big Laura looms in our collective American imaginations and our mythologies.
(02:15):
She's a force. Look, no one has forgotten Laura, but
I do feel that we got to kind of bring
her back into the zeitgeist and get people talking about
her about the good, the bad, the ugly, the inspirational
in a way that I really think she would have appreciated.
(02:36):
I miss it. I miss you, guys. I'm going to
go watch some Michael Landon taking off his shirt and crying.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Now it's funny.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
On my phone in the last few weeks comes up
the photo memories and can you believe it was more
than two years ago? We were on the road for
this podcast. It keeps sending me photos of us and
just met South Dakota with you, like with the mics
and us standing in front of the cottonwood trees and
at the pageant.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
And I'm like, wow, it's already been a year.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And then I realized, no, it's already been two years. Yeah,
and then realizing like, the podcast has been out for
over a year, which is amazing because it feels like
another lifetime that it came out. I don't know if
that's just the news cycle we've been living in America
this year, but it feels like wildly distant and it
(03:33):
was even though it was such a huge undertaking and
such like a joyful undertaking. I don't know. Does it
feel like that to you?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, it feels like there's two separate timelines, and there
was the making of the podcast and then the releasing
the podcast. Everything we talked about has been so relevant
in the past year with the crazy news cycle. It's like,
there's not it really a day that goes by that
I don't think about all of the things that we
saw and discussed in the entire show.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I feel like the more distance we get from this
podcast the prouder I am of it. It's such a
monumental undertaking and how fortunate we were to drive around
the country and be in all those different places. So anyways,
this is basically we're doing a fiftieth annivers three Little
House in the Prairie TV Show special episode, and also
(04:21):
just congratulating ourselves on a podcast that we really read of.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And on that note, just speaking of the road and
speaking of everything that initially surprised us. As you can
imagine listeners, there is so so many more hours of
tape than what you actually heard go into the show.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It's one of the sad parts when you're making this
as some of your favorite characters and your favorite places
we went to or things that we learned just couldn't
make it into the show.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I was always the one being like, can we slide
this in? Can we slide that in? And you're like,
this is one episode. It cannot be four hours long
because a you recorded everything on the road, Like it's
not an easy thing to always have everything miked for
hours every day, but like, we got so much good stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But yeah, I think first I really wanted to do
justice to all of the people in the towns who
are benefiting off of Laura tourism, whether that's being dedicated
to managing the houses, or running the pageants, or even
just like the people who run the restaurants and the
cafes in this town that yeah, they owe a lot
(05:30):
of the most of their revenue in the summer probably
to Laura tourism. And talking to them, it always kind
of astounded me that they weren't sick of it, and
they weren't that you know, you saw like these usually
generations of like mothers and children and you know, family
businesses of people that were just really dedicated to the cause.
(05:52):
I think there was one good example of that in
Pepen Lake Pepin and Wisconsin, the town which was a
cute little vacation town and was.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
The first place where we really began to understand that
people who lived in these places but weren't necessarily working
directly with the houses all had positive feelings about little
House and Laura and what and what her legacy had
brought to the town, which I thought was interesting because
I could see a possibility of or the potential to
be sort of resentful or tired of her. And meanwhile,
(06:20):
I think everybody loved it.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Our very first stop was this amazing cafe, and that
was where we learned to just start asking everyone what
they thought of Laura. This is one of our initial
conversations with people to just get a sense of how
the books and living in a place that where Laura
lived has impacted their lives and their business. And the
name of this cafe is the Homemade Cafe. Just to
give them a.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Shot if you are ever they are.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They had they had great pie, amazing pie.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Oh they had the best pie.
Speaker 7 (06:51):
Well, good, good, awesome, she's awesome show.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
I'm just curious that how much how many people through
here for the house, for the for the to get
it a lot?
Speaker 7 (07:03):
How do you even estimate?
Speaker 5 (07:04):
Yeah, a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Then I have a sticker on the green sticker it
says I was hit Laura's or something like that.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
And then they got that museum down here, so I said,
you know, usually they'll go water the other and then have.
Speaker 7 (07:16):
You been at the museum.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
We're cutted there.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
We came here first.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
That's awesome. And I told them to go down by
the lake. Yeah, it's beautiful here.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, So did you grow up like surrounded by Laura
that you were aware of her for ever forever.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
I read those books I read when I read them
when I was Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, did you ever read them?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
That you ever read those books?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And did you watch the TV show?
Speaker 7 (07:41):
Oh yes, I've never missed it.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, did you too?
Speaker 7 (07:44):
Yeah, my mom always watched it, so and my granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
It's all about Morgan's Yeah, it was wed.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
And the people you get here would like is it
sort of an international crowd and definitely yes?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Oh yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
All over, I said, a lot of them.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
You we have the wedding wedding venues here too. We
have two big wedding venues, so I said, we get
it from all over?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Really, Oh yeah, is this like a vacation, not a
like a it's more of a tourist It kind.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Of shuts down in the winter.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
Now it's a tourist destination. It never used to be,
never used to be. It is now we have a
tourism board.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yes, yes, is that because of Laura or Hartley?
Speaker 7 (08:23):
I'm sure in the wedding venues, did you guys like,
what did you love about Laura?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Would you ever feel like suffocated by her?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's just sort of a reality.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
No, no, I.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
Loved it, but all of it. I love the books.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, I just like the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
How they made.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
It through all those tough times, and you know, and
they were very close family. Yeah, you know that's hard anymore.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
You don't have that a lot anymore.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Does the Mississippi Freeze is pet Lake Pepin Freeze?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It does because that's the end of the opening of
the house and the pairs they're going across.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
The frozen water. It exactly does.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, And when we were driving down but we were
all remarking.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
On how much bigger Mississippi appears when you're driving beside it.
Then maybe it's huge, Yeah, and pretty fast flowing, I think, right.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Yeah, to drive across there with just pantrified.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Used to drive across the across here to say thank
you so much for speaking with us.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I have a terrible voice.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You know, you have an amazing voice.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Not when it recorded.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
That's what I think.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
And I've made a career of making pods.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Appreciated, you know, going to these pageants, we talked about
them putting on these big shows and like the kids
from the town playing out scenes from the book, and
sometimes a mix between the book and the TV show
but there was also uh like fun little communities that
we encountered, Like, I mean, we are just coming out
(09:54):
of the Olympics, and my favorite thing in the world
is like the more niche sports like archery, artistic swimming,
these things. I would say, like the Mansfield Fiddle Off
was my delightful, little like niche performance competition of the
road trip.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Good morning to y'all, and welcome up to the fiddle
off contest here.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
It's gonna be here out most of the day.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Remember in the fiddle competition, there was like the there
was the tiny category, and then like the junior category,
and then the adults. And I just remember must have
been like a eight or nine year old girl going
up there and just slighing, just killing.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
All, just owned the whole competition. And also people had
driven I mean, Mansfield's not that close to anything except Springfield,
but like people had driven distances to come there and compete.
These people were serious about their fiddle talents, which they
should be. They were incredible. Mansfield was delightful. When I
chase that guy across the back to across the field
(10:54):
who was carrying pause fiddle, I was like, oh my god,
what is it like? To hold pause, fiddle. You're just
wandering around like the most valuable and a lot of
people's lives, a lot a lot of you think it's
worth emotionally priceless. I don't think you could put a
price on Yeah, that's a terrible like I can't even
(11:20):
grasp painting.
Speaker 6 (11:21):
It was also.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Thinking of remember when we were in Burr Oak and
they had the competition of the A. Laura and Almonso competition,
uh costume competition, but that people who won it was
almost like a Miss America set up, like people who
won had responsibilities of visiting schools like it was and
bur Oak isn't even it is so tiny, it's not
(11:42):
even incorporated, Like it's literally like a postage stamp of
a handful of buildings, and they held this competition and
had really serious responsibilities to it. I just, yeah, that
should be in the Olympics. Maybe we should, like, if
they're gonna put break Dance in the Olympics, we should just,
you know, petition the Olympics to consider our little house contests.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that I still can't get
over about the road trip is we covered so much
ground just going from Wisconsin to Minnesota to South Dakota,
and then we ended up going over to Wyoming just
to take in that stretch of the Americana of it all.
And that was the first time I had seen that
(12:23):
part of the country. And besides just being wowed by
the bad lands, like I think, I just said wow
the entire time we were driving through it.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It was the first time that it really hit me
that I had only seen mythology of America, like almost
have only seen like the bastardization of it in old
Westerns and all of that, and I had never seen
the actual thing. And you realized, why, oh, yeah, that
that is so amazing. I get why rich, greedy white
(12:57):
men just like wanted to destroy this place and make
money off of it. But it is and which it's tragic,
because it is some of the most beautiful places I've
ever seen.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
America is incredible. And I mean, again, going back to
driving across it, I think we so many Americans and
so many people around the world are sort of fed
the postcard version of it that becomes so familiar in
two dimensional and sometimes a caricature, that when you actually
go there, to any of these places, it is gobsmackingly
(13:29):
beautiful and powerful, and you're like, oh, it is an
incredible country and it is gobsmacking and breathtaking and seeing
it firsthand feels so necessary to me actually.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And smack dab in the middle of that. After you
get out of the bad Lands, you get like a
little bit cartoonish Disneyland Old West location. Do you want
to tell everyone about Waldrug? Which is maybe the thing
that I'm most disappointed couldn't make it into the show,
because there wasn't really right.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I forget that Waldrug didn't make it. So the first
time I went to Waldrug was the first time I
went to Waldrug was in two thousand and two, before
the Internet, and the way I came to it was
west to east. And for Waldrug, there's all these hand
painted billboards for miles and miles and miles saying like
come to Waldrug, five cent coffee, come to Waldrug, all
(14:18):
these things, and so the build up is so extraordinary
and you pull in and it's just this like wild
caricature of a wild West town with all these buildings
and like kitchy stuff and that crazy dining room and
it's sort of the entryway to rapid city, which has
(14:39):
a bit of that same vibe to it, that very
like Mount Rushmore kitchiness that is very, very very American.
And also in all it's the Las Vegas of you know,
the wild West and with all the problems that come
(15:00):
with that.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I mean, you go from Wall Drug which it does
feel like the Disneyland of rest stops, like it literally
has animatronics and if you go into the gift shop
there's there's a glass wall and behind it is animatronics
of just old like Western Western men, just like play
in banjo and singing a song.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
When I say it's so American, it's like it's both
the what we talked about, like the extreme breathtaking beauty
and openness and possibility and history and also the worst
of America in terms of the extermination, the attempted extermination
of Native Americans, of the Buffalo, of the natural wonders,
(15:45):
and also the overlayer of you know that that kitch,
that sort of Las Vegas, but the West kitch and
so's it holds both of these things which are both
or all of these things which are all so American
in the same place. And I think that is the
real intensity and magic of it. And I don't mean
(16:08):
magic in sort of like a frivolous way. I mean
like deep magic of being out there and to some extent,
you know, I think speaks to the enduring a peal
of Little House because she's holding all of those things
in the book at the same time too.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
What are your feelings coming up on the fiftieth anniversary
and your fiftieth birthday.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I feel great about turning fifty. There's something very charming
for me and having the fiftieth anniverse, Like the show
premiered one week after I was born, and so there's
something delightful to me about having it. It's always existed,
but like it's always been around, and I just think, oh,
it's both a short period of time and such a
(17:18):
long period of time. I just had this memory of
remember when we got to Desmet and we were in
the B and B, and I hadn't watched the show,
Like we've been so heavy in prep that I hadn't
seen the show in a while. Remember when we turned
it on the TV when we were in the B
and B, and like we're immediately engaged with it, Like
immediately our heads whipped around and we were pulled in
(17:38):
and it's just a reminder, like it was such a
good show. We talked about all the problems with it
as problems with everything but ban the music.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Pah.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
One of the surprise takeaways for us, anyway, when we
started doing our interviews for this podcast, which we did
so many interviews before we went out on the road,
was how many of the people who loved the book
and had written about the book and were scholars of
the book disliked the TV show and primarily disliked Michael Landon,
which I thought was fascinating because obviously we talked about this.
(18:12):
I loved both, but Michael Landon in particular seemed to
be po His version of paw Ingles seemed to be
a flashpoint for a number of people.
Speaker 9 (18:21):
I never liked the series ever, because it didn't look right.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
You know, Michael Landon obviously looks nothing like Pa.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
It was so clearly an ego project for him that
I just never liked it.
Speaker 10 (18:37):
I actually didn't like it because it was so different
paw In Like, I was like, who is this clean shaven?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
I just phoned Michael Landon. I just could not relate
to him. And plus they never moved out of walnut growth.
They completely eliminated South Dakota.
Speaker 10 (18:55):
You know, he's such a kind of preening presence in
a way that I think would have been horri fine
to Laura Ingles Wild. I think she would have been
dumbstruck at that portrayal of her beloved father.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Lover hate. What Landon did with Charles Ingalls, like Michael
Landon is one of the main reasons that everything still persists.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
The TV show gave the books a whole new life
and continues to do so because it's on TV all
the freaking time.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And to my atten delight, Yeah, yeah, why it's been
on my mind is Tim Watz, the VP candidate with
Kamala Is. He's not from man He's not from Mancato,
but he spent He's from Nebraska, but he spent most
of his adult life in Mankato before becoming governor. Which,
(19:51):
as people who listen to the podcast know, there's an
entire episode where we're primarily in man Cato, and people
who watch the television show know that they're always going
to man Cato to buy something or sell something or whatever.
And then the wagon falls off the side of the road.
And someone almost dies and like Mary's glasses set the
whole place on fire, like Mankato figures into this as
a destination. But as I was thinking about, you know,
(20:13):
Rebecca Tracer, who was on the podcast, wrote a piece
for New York Magazine recently about the different versions of
masculinity the Republicans are providing and the Democrats are providing
and talking about sort of the Tim Waltz masculinity, and
in some ways it really reminded me of the Michael
Landon version of masculinity. Not that Tim Waaltz is taking
(20:35):
off his shirt and like glossing up his pecks or whatever,
but like the masculinity the ability to be to provide
an idea of masculinity that also allows for emotion and sensitivity.
And Michael Landon's paw ingles was like, as we know
and have discussed, was crying in nearly every episode as
(20:57):
like a show of strength.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
And it really.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's interesting because the show itself, I think appealed in
its day to conservative groups, and we know Ronald Reagan
it was his favorite show, but we're obviously in a
much different time of what who and what gets to
find as conservative And I was just like there's something
a little tim Waltzy about Michael Landon's Paw Ingles and
maybe vice versa, and it seems like it just struck
(21:23):
me as so interesting, especially with the like man Cato connection,
So MU should write that the Mancato connection of Charles
of Paw, of Michael Landon's Charles Ingles and Governor Tim
Waltz running for VP.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I think we've got our finger on the pulse with
this one. And I think with the anniversary of the
TV show and Tim Waltz, maybe there's maybe there's a
whole other season here, six Degrees of Separation, just man
Cato edition. Well, in honor of the Vivia the anniversary,
we did just want to bring you some more snippets
of conversations we had with the cast that all of
(22:00):
them were completely amazing, like exceeded all expectations. Also will
shout out all of their books if you have. If
you're a fan of the TV show even a little bit,
I recommend especially Alison Aringram's book. But with Alison Aringram,
I mean we talked to her for well over an hour.
And if you're thinking of iconic Nelly Olsen episode, a
(22:21):
big fan favorite, that we didn't really talk at all
about in our TV episode is Bunny Oh.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
That I love that episode, Oh Bunny.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
We did talk to Melissa and Alison about the making
of that episode and people's reactions to it, and we're
going to play some of those clips side by side,
and I love hearing them talking about it because that's
where you can also hear their deep friendship come through.
Melissa Gilbert and Alison Aringram, despite being very believable enemies
(22:51):
on screen, are the best of friends, and it delights
me every time they talk about it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So do you hear about the most And what was
your favorite episode of the show.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Bunny where I go down the hill in the wheelchair?
Speaker 9 (23:06):
I hear about Bunny and the race. People really dig
the wheelchair push down the hill.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
That's the only time my mother walked into the family
room and said Laura seems mean and I was like,
Laura's amazing, and my mother said, I don't think that
was a nice thing to do and then exited the room.
Speaker 9 (23:26):
Well, Laura was pushed to the brink, but I did
pretend to be paralyzed and ruin everyone's life.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
In most episodes, Nellie does things to ruin Laura's life
and make her miserable. But in Bunny's the only episode
Nelly's insane behavior actually impact everyone. So, yeah, she has
it common. She has it common.
Speaker 9 (23:49):
And I'll tell you Alison got her revenge many years ago.
I had to go in for a colonoscope and she
took me, and when it was over, they wouldn't let
me walk out of the surgery center. I had to
go out in a wheelchair and she pushed it, and
she kept threatening to shove me down a number of
(24:09):
different hills that day, even though I didn't. I said, I,
you know something I fault.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I didn't write it. Tell them people let me do that.
Speaker 9 (24:17):
The other thing I hear about a lot too, is
the mud fight. People like a lot when Alison and
I got physical.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
We hear that from a lot of fans, and I
think it was having girls express sort of like complicated
emotions to each other and that jealousy and competition, which
felt very recognizable at that age.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
I think the other thing that that informed those those performances,
and maybe the audience was getting it subliminal, subliminally, was
that we really loved each other dearly. And I've always said,
you know, you don't really have to necessarily get along
all that well with someone you're doing a love scene with,
but boy, you have to love and trust the person
(24:57):
you're doing a fight scene with.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
We thought it was so funny because we bonded right away,
and then the idea that regularly every few episodes we'd
hate each other in the face was like, it's awesome, Like, oh.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Yeah, fight scene coming up.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
And it was funny because like the very first fight scene,
they were very careful and there was a stunt girl
to do one of the falls so I wouldn't hit
my head. And then but like after that they went
and we pretty much were choreographic our own fights and
they just didn't need stunts for that. The mud fights
all us, they're stunk with that, the famous mud fight.
They're like, yeah, you guys got this whatever, and they're
(25:33):
just like, do do whatever the hell you want to do.
And we did, and we had so much fun, and
we thought it was so funny to play these mortal
enemies and do all this terrible stuff. And then but
it was weird because these scenes right me saying things
and she's crying. It's like and we're going out for
(25:54):
slurpees later.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Other favorite actor to just learn more about her story
was Karen Grassley and how her she as a person
was so polar opposite of Caroline Ingles, and she was
part part of the free sex movement. She was in Berkeley,
she was an actor, she was like on these things.
And also I think if you read her book, which
(26:20):
which I highly recommend, she talks about her entire life
and if you have any interest in you know, sixties
arts and counterculture, definitely read it.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah, it was not progressive where Caroline Ingles was. And
I think it's interesting though, because I don't know. I mean,
she played the character that was written for her on
a show that was huge, but ilo The Waltons were
on at the same time, and the mother in The Waltons,
that character was much more feminist, you know she And
so that is one of the major issues with Michael
(26:52):
Landon was he was open minded in so many ways,
but not about grown women. It's just worth pointing that
out because I think she was in a tough position
of making those decisions as a working actor to get
that show that sets you up for life and allows
a lot of choices.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
The little Woman had never been my goal, and so
there were times when the choices offered to Carolyn in
the script wrinkled. Let me give you an example, and
this is not at all a criticism. This is just
an example of how Michael knew his vision and he
(27:35):
knew what he wanted and in fact was well connected
to his audience. Early on. This is Carolyn has the
scene in the morning of finishing those braids and getting
those scrambled eggs on, and packing those lunches and rescuing
(27:56):
the three year old who's climbing up the stairs and
keeping her from putting her hands by the fire, and
finally the girls have their coats on and their little
lunches and they're going out the door. And my reaction was, oh,
thank goodness we did. And Michael said, no, you look
(28:19):
out the door, you watch them going, and you smile
because they're so lovely. And that's what we did. So
there were times when I couldn't influence what I believed
about the hard work that a mother does, that a
(28:40):
woman cooking on a fire does, But as much as
I could, I tried to influence the way the writers
would see her, and I was happy that in the
end many of them got it. They got it?
Speaker 3 (29:02):
What are your favorite episodes with respect to them getting
it well?
Speaker 8 (29:07):
Olsen versus Olsen where the women all go on strike.
That was our idea a friend of mine and I,
and she consequently became a staff writer on Little House. Yeah,
I was very proud that Chris Abbott came on, and
then I think it was our very close to our
(29:29):
final show, if not our final show, where Laura and
I have a nice scene where we acknowledge our contribution
and she says something like they couldn't have done it
without us. But you know, I respect also this traditional
role that women have played, and I mean, for God's sake,
(29:53):
these women who helped settle the country. They were so strong.
When I read this book called Pioneer Women, it said
that if a woman at that time lost her husband,
she just went on. But if a man lost his wife,
(30:16):
he wrote immediately for a Maile lord a bride because
he simply could not handle it alone.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Someone that you might not expect was as bad as
in her day as she was because she's so perfect
and loving and warm on the show is Charlotte Stewart,
who was Miss Beetle, and we got to meet her
in Mansfield pretty much by accident. We were in Mansfield
during Wilder days. She was kind of the big guest
that they had, and she was there to do signings
(30:48):
and everything, and we got invited to a little reception
where we got to sit down and speak to her.
So we're gonna that is why this tape might be
a little noisy, the tape that we're about to play you.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
She was delightful.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Alison Arngrim, You know, she is at all of the
conventions and everything. And when she first described to us
people's reaction to Charlotte, she said, it's in line. It's
men in eraser Head t shirts crying to her and
telling them how much they loved her as this beetle
while they're in their full like David Lynch, get up.
Because she worked with David Lynch.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
She was a favorite of David Lynch. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Was it strange in the seventies to be cast.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
As sort of a very tradition and a very traditional
female role.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
I meanwhile, I was smoking dope at home, yes, and
then an eraser the movie rape in m I right
about the eraser Head eraser Head, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
Well I was doing it at the same time as
I did the episode of The Waltons because David Lynch,
as a student filmmaker, had no bounds on how late
you worked. You know, we used to shoot all night long.
That's when he preferred to shoot. We'd show up at
eleven o'clock at night and shoot all night. So I
would finish at six in the morning, and if I
(32:09):
had a job, I would have to run home or
change or something and get to the studio. So it
happened to be I was doing The Waltons at the time.
So I came staggering into Warner Brothers where they were shooting,
and I watched it the other night it was on,
and I watched it and I thought, oh no, that
scene is coming on because I could not remember my lines.
(32:34):
I was so tired and.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Like playing if you were saying, like playing like a
traditional misfeto was fairly traditional and then and then, but
you were like a brown up woman in the seventies,
an actress in Hollywood. I mean, that just feels like
I'm sort of night and day.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
I'll tell you I was more connected with rock and
roll than I was Hollywood. I was never very popular
in Hollywood at the time that I got the part
I had a clothing store called the Liquid Butterfly. It
was on Santa Monica Boulevard, and it was rock and
roll the across across the hall. I was in a
(33:13):
building on Los Angele called the Pure Thoughts Building, and
it was the office of Elliott Roberts, who managed Joni Mitchell,
Neil Young, Crosby Stills, Nashing Young, you know, Jackson Brown.
So I was in the middle of rock and roll
for a lot of that time because I was dating
the agent that managed them all. So I was backstage
(33:37):
at rock and roll more than I was in Hollywood.
I never was in Hollywood. I never got invited to
any Hollywood parties.
Speaker 8 (33:44):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
And then when I got Little House on the Prairie,
it was like people in Hollywood went, what little House
on the what? Oh how boring? Well guess what, we're
still on the air. Yeah. Yeah, we got put down
a lot. Really oh yeah, and we got put down
(34:05):
a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But also because I.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Mean people still today are like, oh that was so
wholesome and a little too mushy, but like it tackled.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Some big issues. And I meet people all the time
who I remind them of when they used to watch
the show with their grandparents, you know, and they get
very emotional. Good.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
We drive to Memphis tomorrow evening and then we're going
to Graceland Sunday.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
To four hour drive.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
But we flight.
Speaker 6 (34:36):
It's hard getting flights back and forth to New.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
York to this area.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
You know.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
I worked with no I did what was that?
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Like?
Speaker 5 (34:43):
I did a movie called Speedway, and I have been
a guest at Graceland. It's pretty amazing. It was in
the sixties. I was expecting something totally different. I thought
he was going to be this, you know, look me
up and down and be with his guys. You know,
it's on trush. Nobody was there. He was by himself.
Colon Parker wasn't even there. So it was a director
(35:06):
and me and a girl that was playing his girlfriend
in the scene. They were in a convertible. They come
to a drive in and I wait. I'm a waitress
and I wait on them at the drive in and
he's ordering all this special stuff and I burst into
tears and tell my boyfriend. You know, my boyfriend, he
can't afford anythinking of you, you know. Anyway, he ends
(35:27):
up paying for my wedding, and it gives me a
big wedding and all of that stuff. So it was fun.
We were there always worked with him for two days.
And what he did was when we broke from shooting
the drive in, he went over and sat down, and
I don't know what happened to the girl. She took
off somewhere and he asked the assistant director to bring
(35:49):
over another chair and he sat sat it down beside
him and he said, come here, and I sat down
and he took my hand and he started telling me
about his mother. WHOA And I'm sitting there. I'm twenty
five years old. I'm, you know, young enough to remember
him as a big, big, big deal. And do you
(36:11):
tell me about Gladys and when he went in the
army and they wouldn't let him come home to see
her when she was sick. And I was like, holy shit,
Elvis is holding my hand.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, needed someone to talk to.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
Honestly, that was because we were there.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
I was there.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
It was funny that we found out we had absolutely
no clue she had ever worked with Elvis, and we
were actually going to be on our way to Graceland,
like in the next day or so.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
What do you think was your favorite part of doing
this whole podcast. That's a big question, because this is.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
A yeah, I'm I mean the road trip, my favorite
part was going to a random place, even the places
that were a little more out of the way, like
pass South Dakota or going from Missouri over to Tennessee.
When we would just start having conversations with someone, make
sure in every conversation to bring up lor Engles Wilder,
and usually someone did have a connection with her. It
(37:19):
was the serendipitous thing of yeah, she is everywhere.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, I'm trying to think what my favorite part was.
I think my favorite part was I think Pepin surprised
me the most. And then our drive from Heuron to Buffalo,
Wyoming because it's the emptiest part of the country, and
when Ranger Tanya actually was one of my most favorite
parts of our road trip because I think she was
such a surprise and such a delight. And so that's
(37:46):
the word I'm looking for, reaffirming or.
Speaker 8 (37:49):
I'd like to begin.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Where I'd love to begin is in fourteen ninety two,
Pelma says the ocean blue, a four hundred year resistance up.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Until this is like a bravery to the way she was,
you know, talking about the history at the Battle of
Little Big Horn site, and she's just she was so
delightful when she got on the podcast with us, So
she was one of my favorite parts. And then I
think in the recording when we moved to CDM Studios
in terms of like actual work experience and having such
(38:17):
a high end facility and working with such kind people, like,
I think it comes through on the podcast that we're
actually in the recording of it, we're having a lot
of fun too, and working with so many people who
took such great care to make sure that the product
was high quality.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, I do want to give a big shout out
to all of our amazing producers and editors and mixers
that worked on this, because I'll say it a million times,
podcasts are not easy to make, especially this kind of podcast,
and it takes it really does take a village. And Yeah,
coming into CDM and immediately getting more ears on things
and more opinions is always a good thing. It shows
(38:55):
you where you're where you're coming through, not coming through.
It gives you validation that like, yeah, this is interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
It was such a team effort and everyone on the
team took such great care with the whole podcast. There's
so much depth to all of the intelligence and attention
to detail and determination to make this really good that
came through in the final product that I just want
(39:21):
to make sure that people are aware like this this
was a huge undertaking and everybody involved in it was
willing to go the distance with it, which is amazing because,
as Joe and I talked about endlessly, that degree of support,
you know, is rare, not just in podcast world, but
in like media, creative or otherwise in general, and so
(39:45):
we were so fortunate to be able to have that
backing for this project which needed it.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so grateful that we got to make
this and then it gives us a chance to sit
here and chat. So thank you for chatting, Glennis.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
This was so and thank you to everyone who listened
to this podcast and provided feedback positive or otherwise. It's
so gratifying to have something you worked this hard on
be engaged with, and.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
We're so.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Thankful that people have taken the time to listen to it.
This is not this isn't this podcast isn't undertaking as
a listener too, So thank you everyone. We're just we
wanted to come back and follow up basically to say
that like, here's extra stuff, and also we're so grateful
that it resonated.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
Thanks everyone for listening.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
This episode was hosted by Glennis McNicol and me Emily Maronoff.
It was produced by me mixing and mastering Gune.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
I'm a Heath Frasier.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Now and now. It can never be a long time ago.
It's just two years ago.
Host
Glynnis MacNicol
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